Planning Board - Special Meeting

Okay. Good afternoon everyone. Like to call the order seeing we have a quorum. Call to order uh a special meeting of the Sunset Teach Planning Board. Shall we stand for the pledge of allegiance? I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Uh first item sort of to approve the agenda and the sole item on the agenda today is the kickoff meeting for the update of our land use plan. Do you have a motion to approve or anyone want to amend? Are we should we have done the uh lack of um

Oh, the uh do we need a conflict of interest statement? Not a conflict. No action. So, there's no actions. Yeah. You want to re Does anyone have a conflict of interest? State so now or say nay. No, I do not. No. No, I do not. No. Okay. Okay. The second thing is uh I don't see a um item for public comments. Is that something that we're going to sponsor today or are we just going to have a discussion?

Yes. I guess we can add like a 3.2. Uh as a public since we invited the public, we might as well give them a chance to uh speak if they so choose. So, so we'll have u So the I'll make a motion to approve the agenda with one addition on item 3.2 one 3 minute person public comment period second. All in favor I I any nays? No.

So we proceed with the one item. So, I guess Wes Mloud will be coming up to get us going here. And I made a note to do one thing here which I'm not sure is necessary but because we sort of had a false start the the whistle blew we have to go back to the so I guess for a matter of record the minutes from the May 1 2025 meeting I guess in my mind is still incorporated into this plan because one it was an excellent set of minutes and it lists all all the points that I believe everyone that's still on the board right uh made. So I I would say those those points are still part of the planning process.

Absolutely. Even though we left the blocks and we had to go back to the blocks. Yes, sir, Mr. Chair. And so I I think some of that we're naturally just going to rehash just to make you know make sure everybody's still on the same page and and you know we do actually have today kind of some you know more actionoriented work to do in terms of you know getting into the details of potentially the community survey. Um but thank you for pointing that out and I still have my notes from that as well. Yeah it was pretty extensive. Everybody had like about six, eight comments, bullet points. So, it's usually pretty easy to read to see what the people and people's thoughts could change, but just want to make sure that's still kind of incorporated in the plan of the project. Absolutely.

Fire away.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair, board, and Allan, if you hopefully have got that. Oh, okay. Perfect. Um, so thank you guys for having me today. Wes Mloud, principal with Anchor Point Planning. Um today we're going to initiate start the process of updating the town's comprehensive plan. Uh in and in fact this is going to be um a whole new document that uh we will be uh striving to create. It should be uh simplified in some ways as well um for legibility things like that. Um, we'll we'll go over and and I know back in May, which you know seems crazy, but that was five months ago, we did talk about some of these things. So, I'll I'll try to be brief about what a land use plan is. But just for the purpose of making sure everybody's informed and we have public here as well and folks that are following on uh along online, we'll go back through that material. We'll talk a little bit about the timeline which you all have um got some initial two initial logos um just to share with you. Uh talk a little bit about some background information you know that that provides some context for this and then really the balance of the meeting hopefully is going to be going through those those questions uh on the survey and and I apologize I've got another copy here that I that I printed I'll bring for everybody. uh for some reason uh our server didn't update with an appropriate copy. This copy I have in my in my hand out it's very minor tweaks to what you all have already received and then we'll just close with any questions that you guys may have. But uh this is informal as you all know. Please interject uh if if you guys have a question along the way. So just to rehash what a land use plan is uh for

the town of Sunset Beach. It will be the official document containing goals, policies, analysis, and maps. It serves as a community's blueprint for growth. It will provide formal guidance uh in the form of a doc goals and policies that helps for the decision-m process. As you all know, as a planning board, also the town council uh and staff as well u for for guiding uh potential development related items or or other sort of just long range uh capital improvement type plans. And then uh critical element of this is offering a forum for the public and town officials to propose and implement new goals and policies. Uh again today we're here to hopefully maybe come to uh some confirmation on on on on the survey so we can get that thing rolling and and start initiating that process. Um why do we want to do a land use plan is is sometimes a question for folks. Um again it offers uh opportunity for self-evaluation particularly of uh development regulatory programs and ordinances maybe as it relates to some of the feedback we get. Uh we have uh 900 responses to a past survey. Uh we can look at uh those responses in relation to new responses to see is there has there been some changes um in the general sentiment of folks. allows for input from various departments, staff, and elected appointed boards in short and long-term needs and helps guide uh future budgeting processes. We're not going to get into the very specifics of budgeting, but it helps, you know, maybe moving forward in the next budget process. Hey, we heard from folks in the land use plan that XYZ was important. Maybe that's something that we should take into account. Is that

No, I just had a quick comment that um you know went through some of your documents and keep hearing we're updating the land use plan. Sure. And it sounds like we're doing a a wrote thing that we have to do, which we do, but I'm wondering if we couldn't call it something grander [laughter] and maybe that would

get a little bit more interest or excitement in, you know, the when it when we say we're updating the land use plan, I think a lot of people are going to say, "Yep, sure. I don't know if we can put, you know, vision in there or, you know, I know we have to do the land use plan, but and that's what it is, but you know, I've read through some of your resume stuff and there's other towns have called them other things. Yes. And we're going to get to that, too. Good. Yeah. In fact, um yeah, so there's a list of guidelines or sort of statutory requirements would need minimum needs to be in that in here, right?

Yes, sir. Like, so that's kind of like the core maybe the the land use plan part of it. Yep. But you could. Yeah. But you we can and I've got some ideas for names. 2040 comprehensive plan, charting the course, you know, things that are, you know, perhaps a little bit more enticing. Uh so good. Y Yeah. Yeah, I mean my thought is is that I mean this, you know, and maybe this is my prejudice from a business development background, but this is a master business plan and that to me has a little more stirring ring to it than um Sure.

So maybe maybe not. Anyway, that's my thought. Yep. And and just so everyone is clear, I mean it's sort of the terms get used interchangeably updating how whatever you're going to have a entirely new document. Now a lot of the policies may there may be some very similar policies, right? We're not going to throw out the baby with the bath water. We're going to evaluate our old policies, but it's going to be all intents and purposes an entirely new new document. Yeah. Because I think the formatting of this 2017 was a little murky. Sure. I agree. [laughter] I think

at the end of the day, what we want to have out of a land use plan is a community consensus and a civic leader consensus of the strategic overview of what we're going to do next. Sure. And that kind of needs to me to be like face plate. Boom. Here it is. And here's why. Yep.

So, okay. Um and so you know we don't need to belabor this but and and to the chair's point um there is now requirement uh for local governments they uh to maintain their zoning authority to adopt and quote reasonably maintain a comprehensive plan or land use plan and we don't know what reasonably maintain means. Um um you know, guidance from school government would tell you that uh if you're if you're experiencing growth and development in community, then you probably need to be looking at doing these things every 5 to 7 years. 5 years in in my mind is really quick because it takes almost two years to do them. Um but you know, 7 to 10 years or so seems seems logical to me. So,

and and it should be mentioned that in the 2017 land use plan, the instructions were that it would be revised every two years and I believe replaced every five or was it seven? I think there was a you know every two years the division of coastal management wants us to send them an implementation status report. Um that's you know there's that that gets down the totem pole as as important things but I I don't know what the guidance is in the current plan but you [snorts] know probably the 5 to sevenyear range is my is my guess. So

and and I don't want to pass over because this came as a bit of a revelation to me which I read in this um document that was done in 2021. I think people need to understand is absent a municipality being serious about controlling its own zoning which is a land use plan is the state reserves the right to come in and say you know what if you're not going to take it seriously we will do it for you and that is a prospect that we want to avoid at all costs.

Sure. There is a tremendous pressure politically both nationally and regionally because frankly there's not enough new housing being built and that's going to reflect itself in a lot of the policies that we're going to be faced with as a community to implement policies that may not be beneficial to the town but resolve other [snorts] issues at the state and regional level. So it's very important that we get this done and we get it done right.

Sure. Um okay. Um, so and and listen, we we'll sort of just briefly go through this and and get on our way here, but just typically things that are included in land use plans, comprehensive plans, public engagement results and input, community profile, and any relation to economic development, natural systems analysis, and environmental conditions, community facilities and services, meaning, you know, I know the town doesn't have their own water and sewer, but it's still important to understand the context within which how much how much available capacity is there even though we're not providing it ourselves that impacts uh growth and development uh here in the town. Uh existing conditions uh and land use patterns, what's being built, what's what's been approved. Um and then of course your goals and policies that tie back into, you know, understanding the existing conditions in context of what we've heard from the public and what folks want to see happen. And then the future land use map uh which is the land use plan equivalent of your of your zoning map.

Okay. And I'm assuming that existing conditions and land use patterns is going to include traffic. Uh traffic is is addressed. Uh there'll be discussion about uh traffic counts and so on and so forth. But you know we're not this isn't a transportation engineering plan. But as it relates to land use plan, yes, transportation is is addressed.

Okay. Great. And we've talked about this before uh but just for the benefit of of restarting again we'll just go back through kind of sort of the generalized roles and responsibilities as a consultant. You know, our job is to prepare materials in the plan document, help facilitate the meetings, and serve as a technical adviser for town staff. Uh providing administrative input regarding land use plan contents and offer input regarding how the plan uh will be uh not implanted but implemented, [laughter] utilizes. Um and then for the advisory committee, which in in this case is a planning board, um you know, providing feedback and input to staff and consultants, reviewing the draft plan materials and preparing for the meeting. Um and then also, you know, making sure that the goals, priorities, policies, and plan materials representative of the citizens and property owners of of of Sunset Beach. Um so questions there. Okay. Um I guess one question.

Yes sir. Is Ron Tu adi uh consultant or staff? So we will do a good job to keep things um separate. Not sure for clarity sake. Yeah. For the most part, you know, he in and just in in our business and our company, I'm I me and other staff are the ones that are primarily doing the land use plans. So, uh, his role is as a sort of a planning on on call planning, um, staff member. And so, in that capacity, he would he would offer input, you know, hey, staff would like to see X, Y, or Z. Does that make sense? It more of a a staff standpoint.

Yeah. So, he's operating more as staff and le liaison to the consultant.

Yes, sir. Yep. Does that make sense? Yep. Um any any other question about roles and responsibilities? Okay. So there's there's a lot here in this. Um I'll just note that of course this is anticipated timeline. Uh we can't possibly fathom what may come up if if folks if if everyone can't be present for a meeting. Um, but this just helps us provide some semblance of a road map uh to to to get from point A to point B. Uh, you'll note that there'll be a meeting date and there's deliverables on the side and and so typically how the how it'll be handled when you all are provided new material with the exception of this community survey. When you're provided chapter draft chapters of the plan, you'll be given basically a month or you know the time at which let's just say today you had a deliverables chapter 1 and two. You would not be expected to to comment on that on the day you given it. It's be you're going to have a whole month or in some cases longer to review it uh and be prepared to to discuss it at the next meeting. and and for some of us folks that were on the UDO uh committee, it's handled in the same fashion. Um be given hard copy material and we'll and we'll go through it in detail page by page by page once we get uh through all the chapters a full clean revised copy. We'll then incorporate all those changes at which point they'll be uh delivered to you again. So, um we'll see our goal is to um towards the end of the summer um be in a position uh for the planning board at your discretion uh to recommend potentially recommend approval of this document. Um it will

then go to uh this is where things sometimes a little more complicated with these coastal plans. Uh it has to go to division of coastal management basically twice. Uh first being after the planning board will recommend approval, they will review the document just to make sure that it is compliant with the North Carolina Administrative Code 7B requirements. That's my job to make sure they're all in there. Uh and that's a minimum 75day review period. I don't know what happens when it gets sent to them. It, you know, sometimes it's 75 days, sometimes it's 120 days. I don't quite know why, but that's to some degree out of our control. When they review that plan, in my experience, uh they don't come back with necessarily changes that say, "Hey, town of Sunset Beach, we think you should be uh restricting growth more or letting more growth happen." It is more so uh you didn't comply with this requirement. Have not had that experience. Uh, and the only other comments that we've received over the years is perhaps you should uh make this May statement a shallow. Well, that's a fair comment, but if the community doesn't want to make that May statement a shallow, then that's that's their perspective, not yours. Once uh we get word from Division of Coastal Management that meets all the requirements, uh it can then be scheduled for local adoption uh by the town council. following any town council adoption. It is then sent back uh to vision of coastal management for uh coastal resources certification. So tangled web uh but we'll do our best to to make sure you guys understand.

But we hope to be done by August 20th. Yes, sir. And then I don't have to worry about it. Yes, sir. You do not. That's my job. But yeah, I just want to make sure you're all kind of familiar here with with the process. I do have a question. Yes, sir. um the second public engagement session. Yes, it's July or August and then we're voting on it in August. It seems late for the second public engagement session.

It it's and that's one of the things that's subject kind of to change or based on you guys uh perspectives. if you want to um you know there there'll also be another hearing for this. There'll be a third opportunity for input you know prior to adoption but um if you all wanted to have uh a session earlier we could do that. Just thinking it's awfully late if something comes out of that community meeting you don't really have much time to respond. Sure. Um,

I guess the thought being was that if if it would provide an additional opportunity prior to you guys making your it could be done before the let's just call it July 16th item the review of the draft. It could be just before that. Sure. In case that final draft requires any tweaking it. And so, you know, some some folks they say say, "Hey, listen. After the planning board approves it, we want to or recommends approval. We want an additional public session before council has the hearing."

And so, that's what I was saying. It's sort of up to you all. I'm I'm we're open to trying to bump that forward uh sometime in June. Um but I'm happy to sort of um take it take that in account. Okay.

[sighs]

Um so just um Stuart sort of jumped the gun here but uh that's which is okay. Um you know I do think providing this you know some some name these are two options that we've that I've sort of initially come up with 20 240 comprehensive plan charting the course town of Sunset Beach or just calling it Sunset Beach 2040 uh is also kind of has an interesting um ring to it. Uh I'll also add that there will be a dedicated project website for this too. The um the URL has already been purchased. Uh we don't have anything to put on there yet. Um but uh it will be at plansetbe.com. Uh in which point we'll be able to have draft material and any information that that's relevant uh on that um website. Is there a does the uh planning board um sort of have any thoughts on one item or the other? I like Sunset Beach 2040 course

first one. Okay. Yeah. It's just simple. Simple. Right to the point. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Um it doesn't mention the word comprehensive plan. Is that something they would say? No. You need to put it someplace in the name. You do not. Uh, I mean on the title somewhere we can we can make sure that it's addressed, but it it will be your comprehensive plan for meeting your legal requirements. It doesn't necessarily have to say that in the in the logo. That could probably cover that. So that can be covered like an introduction or something like that as well.

Yes. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yep. Uh some it you're it's not just going to be the logo. There's going to be a full set of documents attached to it. [laughter] You know, I kind of like the comprehensive plan being in there. Um, to me, it gives it more weight, but I do like the logo to the left. Um, but anyway, those are my thoughts. Comprehensive plan charting the course. What? We like the left. I am. I'm I'm kind of just don't mess it up.

Borrowing a phrase. I mean, charting the course to me, uh, it it could be sailing instructions. Um, it doesn't really to me resonate with, you know, this is a plan for the community. It kind of, well, it will it won't be I mean, it rolls off the tongue very nicely, but I'm not and it won't be in a vacuum. Um so you know it will you know material with with it will be in context that it is a it is a comprehensive plan. All right.

Okay. Thank you. So just as a reminder um just some background information uh this was the previous uh or this is your current um um future land use map. Um, again, as I stated, this is sort of the uh land use plan equivalent of your zoning map. And so these various and and forgive me, I'm probably repeating stuff that you're familiar with, but just providing some background information here. These various land use districts have discret des descriptions uh tied to them about you know desired uses densities um aspirations for you know how that development may may look in the future things of that nature. Uh I'm also of course fully aware that there are large chunks of what were formerly vacant land that are that have now uh been accounted for. Um, and

I've always been concerned, especially if we get to starting the survey, without having a solid inventory, excuse me, of what's left. Yep. Because you can answer all those questions thinking there's a thousands of acres of open land when my looking at it is is there's just not that much. Sure. So so even when you ask the public like the questions I think they kind of need should know well we should know here in the planning board but what's left like an acre or larger that's not spoken for either through platted sure conditional zoning

and when you look at that I mean there's I don't know if there's there's certainly maybe 50 acres left I'll jump right ahead here. So, [snorts]

um, to one, I I think just and and Mr. Chairman, I I fully respect sort of your thoughts on this. Um, but it's also important to think, you know, for example, we go go to Holden Beach, um, that everything is accounted for there, right? But we're still going to go through that that process with them understanding, you know, what is what's important. And for them, for example, there's going to be a lot of discussion about how to preserve what we have. There's also going to be a lot of discussion about that here in Sunset Beach, I would suspect, as well.

Would it would it be helpful? Because I mean when I you know think of the history of what we've accomplished in the last four years um essentially residential is pretty much done and what remains somewhat undecided is primarily commercial. Is there a way to kind of do an overlay to kind of help people understand this is what's at stake as opposed to this is what's been decided.

So I think what you all are getting at is like a a a different um a different type of of plan. what we're trying to get as broad-based perspective and understanding on as much input as we can about 20 years down the road, 25 years down the road. Um, and so as part of that, you got to imagine that there are while there is some um, you know, vacant um, vacant land that will certainly be developed over time and and some of that is certainly commercial. Uh there may be opportunities for redevelopment as well. And like you said, the golf course here is being protected.

Yep. To remain recreational space, whether it's a golf course or open space or whatever. I understand that part, but if you read some of the questions, they're all great things, right? Yeah. One, I have another kind of pet peeve about the cost side. Yeah. But if you if you like want all that stuff, they're really I'm hardressed to find places to put all that stuff uh without unpreserving things. Yep. So, that's all I don't I agree. It's just not the only thing we look at, but I think

when you engage the public and you give them a list of boy, these are great things we should have uh you know, recreation area and open spaces and multi- youth path and all that stuff, but realizing that that doesn't necessarily mean that those are happening tomorrow, but those are sort of aspirational goals. And ultimately you guys again and and we're going to get to the survey here. So I guess it just achieves some sort of balance is that

it just because the you know the whole community says we want more walking trails doesn't mean tomorrow there's more walking trails. But what it does is help open the door right when say commercial development is coming or there's potential opportunity for future development. How are we figuring out how that that's that's happening alongside that? or maybe we're budgeting uh because it is an important enough thing to figure out how to put those put those into place over time, you know, 15 years down the road, etc. Got to have goals. Yes. We can't we can't just sit here and say I don't know how any of this is going to happen.

That's and so and I think Mr. chair and you know for me it's sometimes hard some of it is sort of pie in the sky type stuff and and maybe I'm using the wrong term there but don't want to big goals for the town right but sort of a reasonably I guess reasonably attainable goal well that's up for the whoever is elected officials at the time to figure out whether they're reasonable or not right

I'm not troubled by them being aspirational And I think when more I think about it, you know, even though we've dedic, you know, much of the residential inventory is now either platted or under construction. I mean, there are things like, and you know, here I go again, you know, sidewalks. Yeah. Um, you know, even if something's been platted, I I think it's helpful to have a land use plan that says, "Hey, we we want to get rid of sidewalks to nowhere." right?

Um and other things like that that could help persuade a developer to adhere to something as simple as um creating a crosswalk, creating a sidewalk. Um it's funny how when you state that this is desirable, quite often people will just do it. Well, there's also grant monies out there available and if we don't have those goals in our bingo. Yep. Listen. And then we don't have backup for asking for that money. That's correct. Yep. Yeah.

Um so just and we'll get get here to the community survey here very shortly. Um 2020 um population was just over uh 4,100. Moving forward to 2024, which is the the most uh up-to-date year we have for from the state's data, not not the census, but from the state's data is all the way up to nearly 4,800. And we know in that context, we have uh approved approximately 2,000 units um uh within Sea Trail and then another 1500 in the Angel's Trace project. So depending on, you know, the persons per household at buildout, that could potentially, you know, double the town's population in and of itself. Just just un understanding that. And so, um, you know, I think thinking about also, you know, maybe we need to think about some of those survey questions and, you know, what are the what are what are going to be some of the needs or the desires of of of those new folks or folks now or or how is that development uh potentially going to impact um what we have here today.

Now, this is this is population, not households. Correct. the the population. So the units is is referring to to residential dwelling units.

Okay. Um and then so just you know I I understand we're here in Sunset Beach we're we're you know largely accounted for but just understanding from a regional context uh county is expected to gain 13 people per day or approximately 4700 people per year between uh 2023 and 2042. So every year the county is going to be adding a new sunset beach. They're not. So just just understanding that and I think and that's Brunswick County. And what folks sometimes, you know, don't understand is that while we think Brunswick County is growing quickly, we're we are not growing near as quick uh or projected to grow near as quickly as as our close or as as Ory County. Uh which is projected to have 33 people uh per day or or basically three sunset beaches per year. you have the data for New Hover.

Uh New Hoverver I think is eight maybe.

Um and so um out of out of Pender um Pender Brunswick and New Hver Brunswick is is the most quickly growing but again both all you know all three of them don't make up to the growth that's that's happening in Ory County. And the other thing that's that's occurring is in Columbus County, we are seeing growth um for the first time in a long time. Uh we don't know exactly what's going to happen over the next 101 15 years there, but there has been um potential for approximately 10,000 units to be approved there um and built and and that's that's in the portion of of Columbus County that is is closer here to to Sunset Beach. So just understanding kind of there is more and more growth that is projected to come. Um and that just shows you the so by 2042 projections are that Ory County will go from in 2023 just under 400,000 all the way up above 621 and then in Brunswick we'll go from 160 to almost 250,000. And that's permanent resident population. As we know along the coast, permanent resident population does not take into account our seasonal population. So there'll be a good clip higher than that, but higher than that 250,000 that will actually be here in the summer months.

Should we or do we or will we include the seasonal we will

changes in the land use plan that we have? we will provide um our art and science forecast of of what that number looks like in the summer and because I think so I think that's that's uh very important for multiple different reasons. one um impact on town services, but secondarily um you know, if a business is looking to locate in a community and they in a in a seasonal community and they just see, well, there's 5,000 people in Sunset Beach, that doesn't really tell the true story um of of what's going on, right? Uh it may be that there's 5,000 people that that will live there year round, but there could be 10 15,000 people there through certain months of the year. And so we want to make sure to tell that story. Uh also as part of the comprehensive plan,

is there data from the parking an we'll use best available data. Uh but but typically um there's a combination of things that we're able to utilize. Um we're able to uh census data provides us um you know the number of housing units that are considered to be vacant or seasonally vacant. Um and then we're able to understand on a typical basis how you know what is the bedroom count of those average units. All this will be discussed through you guys. We have like a rental tax thing too that would have a the accommodations tax won't necessarily track you know

just just accommodations tax but um it we'll be able to you know there'll be multiple different things that we'll look at to try to understand what the what that seasonal population is and and this is process that I've I've utilized and worked through multiple different jurisdictions with coastal m municipalities in particular and NC DOT maybe

well they used to provide seasonal traffic counts but they cut funding for that um that may be something that we can talk about GATS giving us um potentially putting a traffic counter um out um somewhere near um the bridge I I think that's always helpful data to know and and and especially knowing what the delta is or the difference between a count in July versus the the DO's count which is throughout the course of the year. That also helps us understand how many more people are here. Lisa, do we have anything from the 904 study numbers?

We will have and we do also have our own um speed and traffic count equipment that we can put out as well. Okay. Um, all right. So, that just, you know, I I hope just want to go through some of that information in terms of a a context basis. So, uh, with that, let's um jump in here and we can actually get into kind of the nuts and bolts of this survey. Uh, let me see. I've got one, two, three, four, five, six. [clears throat]

You wish. You think so? Sure. What makes you think that?

Yeah. What makes you think that? [laughter] Um let's just we'll get into the specifics uh but just in generally generally the most most of our feedback that we'll get from the public will come from this online survey. It it is the most efficient method to to capture folks uh responses. Um and then so there's generally some sort of ground rules that that you want to shoot for. one, you want to make sure folks take it. And so you can't give them 50 questions because they won't take it. And so, you know, when when we're putting these together, we we try to have a question uh surveys that that are 10 questions or less. Otherwise, we find that if folks are having to spend much more than five minutes. Now, some people are going to spend plenty of time on this, but it is those folks that, you know, to get more responses, we we've we got to have a a a quick process. So we we uh we have 10 questions here in this um they're uh they can be made available also in hard copy format for folks that don't have uh

has it ever been done like after a period of time a survey to create from this people that responded a focus group to get deeper into things. It it it can be, but this is a comprehensive plan and and I think, you know, maybe we gloss over this too much, but this is sort of your your highlevel document, right? Which sets the stage for some of the more focused things. And I know we talked about, you know, some of the more focused elements of of that. Uh also um so this is in a sense general but also there's some you know core sort of topic areas here that we're trying to pull out and and get data and and for the purpose of the survey is we just want sort of unfettered input here. We're not trying to guide some someone one way or the other. We just want to understand the input and all that raw input will be then synthesized and analyzed as part of this plan. what is and is not relevant and you guys as a steering committee will have access to that and we'll you know Wes will provide an al an analysis of sort of what I'm seeing does that align with what you're seeing and how that impacts down the road um goals policies and strategies sorry for all of that does that help sort of set the stage here okay all [clears throat] right um with that are there questions overall about the survey or should we just pop in here um uh on on on number one and I do have one comment because I I believe this relates to Stuart's item. Um the title of this was [clears throat] I wanted to discuss with you all too if it should be you know 2040 you know plan or something to that effect.

Yeah, I think so. Okay. Yeah. [cough] Okay. Okay. And you know, as you talk about per sentences, comprehensive land use plan update. Yep. I'd really like to have the update word. Sure. Come out. I mean, we're not really updating. We're making a new plan. I know. Scrap the old one, put it in the shredder, and it's we're starting starting something else. Okay, perfect. How do we uh plan on letting the public know about the survey?

Good question. So, that that would be a generalized question. The there's multiple ways to do that. Uh the town has a a sunshine list, I believe, email list. Um the town probably also has social media, correct? And so those would be my first two. And and I was going to get to this. I I sort of jumped the gun. We will so as we meet monthly for example we come back in January assuming that we get to a point we're comfortable with the survey today we'll see hey we've got however many responses how are we doing you know is do we need to send out halfpage mailers with folks in their you know utility bills or or some other or you [clears throat] know so there's what I would recommend is that first we utilize those lowhanging fruit methods email post on town website post on Facebook and and see how we do. And if we're not satisfied with that, then we can go back and look at alternative methods um for for increasing our input. What you'll find is that often times someone will get a a Facebook link to that and it will go on a neighborhood page and you all of a sudden get, you know, 100 responses or another neighborhood page all of a sudden get another 100 responses. Um great question. Well, I my concern would be there's a high degree of variability in some of the social media sites. So, for instance, Sunset Beach Taxpayer Group is tightly administered. The only people that are on there have to provide a taxpayer [snorts] identification. Others like Friends of Sunset Page are anybody can come. So, you know, and I think we talked internally about the concern that We want this to be the sentiment of Sunset Beach taxpayers and voters. So

I'm a little concerned about the social media aspect of I mean that has to be guided pretty carefully. So [clears throat]

there's multiple perspectives for that. So for one on on page nine there is an opportunity here um to provide you know full-time resident, property owner, renter etc. Um I think as I alluded to typically you and this is you know not uh with 100% certainty but folks that are vested in the town property owners that [clears throat] end up taking these otherwise folks don't want to waste their time and so uh over the course of me you know working doing I don't know how many of these over the years now u over 50 I can tell you that almost every survey that we do is almost 95% of of property owners are the are the ones that take the survey just by virtue of the fact that does it make sense if I live somewhere else to take the time to do it but it's a great great question um certainly

can I point out too yeah this you also this is your land use plan for development also in the ETJ like Kevin is a member of the ETJ does he does not reside in the town limits but he certainly has a vote and a voice as a member of your planning board. So, you also want to get those ETJ members a voice in the process. Yeah. And and I mean if it's if it's weighted properly, I mean people who love Sunset Beach, if they want to put their two cents in, that's fine, but I mean I think there needs you know somewhere is you know in light of that. So number nine, it says town of Sunset Beach. Is do we mean town of Sunset Beach and ETJ residence?

We can we can include ETJ resident if you like. Happy to do that. I know you're talking about in the Well, because it's a what best describes you to the town of Sunset Beach. You're full. Is that assumed relationship asking about your relationship to the town? Often most people don't know what an ETJ is, right? So people My question is, do people in ETJ consider themselves film residents or not? I never knew what an ETJ was until I got the planning board. Congratulations. Well, I just don't want them confused. I mean, would they say I I'm a resident elsewhere on that? I I don't know. I just want to make sure that they're

Well, maybe we may be trying to slice the baloney a little too thin here. So, let's do it. My purpose of bringing that up was that there are folks that that have a voice of what's going on in the town through the as a member or resident of the ETJ. And I didn't want them just if you just limit it to the town residents or town property owners, you're not hearing that voice. That's why I brought it up. Yeah. And I think, you know, we want the people that surround us to, you know, have some input. One of the things that you and I talked about

is sometimes what what what is commonly done in this kind of situation is to go back and do a more measured survey that is of a smaller population uh usually a phone survey and if the two kind of match you go okay the online survey is reliable okay and if they don't then you need to scratch your head and go okay well what happened here so I don't know if That's something we want to consider. But it would give us some certainty that this really does reflect the because you can get I mean you know I mean voter roles you can get the phone number of everybody on the Sunset Beach that's a registered voter. So if you get a 2%

um you you can and and what I guess what I would just advise if the board is comfortable with it. Let's one, let's make sure that we're comfortable with what's in here. Let's go through and review this. But perhaps and once we go live, let's see how how things are coming in. And and you know, I will you'll be you'll be provided access the full raw results with all of the, you know, positive and sometimes very uh perhaps unproductive comments that'll also be uh included in there. So you guys 20,000 respondents on the survey, we can kind of go, okay, wait a minute. Yeah. So let's let's sort of see where we are and and that's okay. Um

pardon me just in full disclosure I got two years of graduate level you're fine and listened this survey was our only task but this is just one component. Um so uh in in in the intro there we're going to uh remove the word update. Um and so moving forward into question one or uh and then we're also going to you know the title will be aligned with the with the you know the title for the for the plan. Um questions about uh or comments about question one this is sort of an overarching question um related to some of the the topics uh following. Yes sir. The first thing in general, Yep.

almost all of these you're asking for top three. Mhm. And in many cases we got like eight to choose from. Uh do we want four? So they eliminate half. That's a good question. I mean some of you I think you got less than eight, but would we be better served by getting letting them pick four out of the eight?

So there's multiple perspectives on that. I mean, we can whittle these down to four. Uh, but the other thing that this can be helpful to do is I think it's also valuable to know which responses receive nothing. Meaning that these are things that are clearly not important at all uh to the town. Does does that make sense? Yeah, but still four out of eight is still you're forced to eliminate half your choices. Yeah. I need I don't I just thought that we might I don't know. I think it makes them work a little harder to to come up with those three the top three. Yeah. And the question do we prioritize you know one two three or do we just say top three or

so it says pick three. The the results will show which of the three of the most.

Yes. And so we'll, you know, the results will have a bar chart and it will be, you know, tailored from the most to the least. And so and and the other thing that all these have an other and we don't have to have an other, but the other can sometimes be very enlightening in terms of what people say, uh, you know, in there. Sometimes it relates to some of the the other choices as well. Uh, but Mr. Chair, happy to remove any of these if you guys feel like they're they're not relevant. I know in the one that we did in 2016 in terms of um specific commercial ideas, at least from the way I I read it, everybody, okay, do you want a hotel? Yes or no. Do you want a restaurant? Yes or no. and it gave kind of a you know and rather than which of these top three um would you prefer and we got you know we got some pretty interesting data from that. Is that something that

it's kind of in question three but restaurant isn't on that list? It should be or is it not? Oh yeah neighborhood scale restaurants and cafes. Happy to remove that that phrase too. The neighborhood scale. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. So, well, let's let's just if we're okay, can we keep just let's go down. Okay, I'm jumping ahead. Sorry. Um, so on one is there are are you guys generally satisfied with that?

The um improving transportation safety, circulation, and congestion. So, when I read that, I'm implying more vehicular. Is it worth adding pedestrian or bicycle in there just to be specific? Yeah, absolutely. Or if you guys feel like bicycle and pedestrian took precedence over one of these other choices, we could scratch one of those. Or we could just add a specific bicycle and pedestrian safety. Yeah, maybe the one next to it that community character and accommodating future development seems a bit on the vague side. Okay.

Maybe would would be better served there. Adding a uh something concerning uh walking pedestrian bicycle. Where does ebike I don't know where the ebike falls into? I think that's a good idea. Supporting uh facilities for bicyclists and pedestrians. Does that work? Yeah. Okay. I think so. Scratch the maintaining the community character. Yeah. Okay. Because I think that could mean so much different things to different people. Sounds great. Now, is there is is will there be a space for the surveyor to comment? Yes. Okay. So, if they want to expand their idea of what maintaining community character is, they could

What else would you like us to know? Yep. That's right. Yeah. There's Mhm. And that's we usually get great feedback from that. Keep that text box very small. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. I think there's 250 characters that are allotted in that. Um, I mean we will have I would anticipate at least 80 if not 100 120 p 20 pages of of raw raw data here. Oh, what fun. [laughter]

Um, okay. Anything else on one? We're going to scratch maintain community character add supporting facilities for bicyclists and pedestrians. All right, good. Two. This is an overarching question related to folks perspective on something as simple as low density uh development um something like minimizing tax burden on each household of the town development supporting that and then um future development to support investment in communitywide services and infrastructure. Well,

nothing ever on these questions ever asked people are willing to pay more taxes. Yeah, sure. I mean, in in some respects, I look at the first one and I go, you know, that ship is sailed. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Yeah, they can want it all they want, but the d the residential density pattern is pretty much set. Um, I think I'm more interested in guiding people to help us understand what they want in terms of commercial development. I mean, they may we may get a sentiment that says, you know what, we don't want any more commercial development. [snorts] We like it just the way it is. or do we feel that you know and I'm not sure how to word this but there's a question there's some of that is in three

um but you know we if we could yeah we can go back to two and so I was a little confused on the third part I want future development in Sunset Beach to support investment in communitywide services. Oh, really? I mean, yeah, he might build a building and he's supporting stuff. Yeah. Why would he not support it? I don't know. I'm just It seems a little vague. Yeah. I mean, who wouldn't want that? Sure. Are you I don't know if you're going to learn much from the answer. And

are you saying that developers should pay for communitywide improvements? Well, not necessarily. I mean the um I guess it's somewhat related to item two also that you know depending on the development type it it there may be you know a better return on investment for example uh from a tax standpoint um we're not allowed to necessarily make um you know we're not allowed to go right we can't make them go all over town and build stuff so I don't want yeah I don't know too what we're getting at at all I That's what's the purpose of question two. What are we trying to get to there? I understand three better. Y

cuz you're saying okay so the open land privately own whether we show what's left or not. What would you like put there? I mean I think that I mean if we want to simplify this thing if you we could potentially remove two as well if if you guys feel like there's not a true benefit. What were your thoughts when we put it here? what were you trying to Well, typically folks are well just a general perspective on what people want and and potentially what they want to preserve and that may be um often times it may be that it's a low density pattern which is fine. There's just additional costs typically that that coincide with that low density pattern.

Yeah. cuz cuz I like the general principle of this because you know a lot of the other questions are just binary yes or no. Yep. And here you're getting some data in terms of the intensity of their feeling for a specific thing, which I think is helpful, but I'm just I don't see the huge benefit in terms of guidance. Better just to ask if you want sort of what Richard said the first time, you know, do you want more future commercial development or do you want more future residential development?

So, so maybe number three just needs to be revised. I want future development in in Sunset Beach to uh provide additional commerce and or something to that effect and retail opportunities or something like that. Yeah. Would that be would that be acceptable? And I think that's sort of related to it, but I think that that's maybe a more clear indication. In two, you mean? Uh in three. In three. Three. Well, we're kind of we're I kind of like it in I kind of liked it in two. Let between re Yeah. I don't know how you want to call it. Commercial retail or residential. Okay. Or open space.

Sorry. And then leave option three. Yes. And let them then that kind of breaks it. That kind of drills. Leave option three. Uh I want future development sunset beach uh uh to provide additional commercial commercial retail whatever how you want to describe it. And then or another pick being do you only want residential? Sure. So the first one is follow low density B pattern. The second would be uh I want future development in Sunset Beach to provide more commercial options. Yep. Yeah. On the mainland I don't think we should

we we can that's up for you guys to sort of whittle out how that's going to go. Basically, I guess in my mind I'm seeing is question two is like the big broad. Yep. Yes. People want to see Okay. just homes. Yeah. Leave everything else the same. Just put we're okay. More residential or we got enough people. Mhm. [clears throat] I'd like to see more retail, commercial. Okay. And then when you go down to question three, after you answered that one and two, you sort of pick Okay. the type. I guess you hope there's no conflict. They pick residential. residential in the first one and pick all the commercial [laughter] ones in the next question. Maybe but that would So that's what I see is that the broad pick you just

you just want to see we're good with the commercial let's just do residential. Okay. And then question three says do you want like single family mult you kind of got it in those picks. Sure. Yeah. Or if you only want leave the got enough houses just give us all sure commercial stuff to go then in question three to kind of pick the types. Yep. Yeah. And and on and on on number three. Well, before we get to number three, I want to make sure I want to make sure we're good on number two. Uh so I just cuz you're only picking one here. Really? The highest one, right?

So number two, the the selection choice for number two would be modified to say provide more commercial options and the third item would remain or the third item would be stricken. Yeah. Again, I'm not sure what that means. I guess you could leave it on there to see. Yeah, sure.

If no one picks it, I mean, so just an aside, I had written two more questions and they directly related to taxpayer money or parking revenue money and what do we want to spend that on? Is there a way to tie that into some of this? Because you have 10 questions so I can't add my two. It could be replace that one and it could be moved down the list because I really do feel like we need to find out what they want. Sure. You know, taxpayer money to be spent on, but we have a whole new revenue source and what do they want that to be spent on?

Sure. You know, do they want it all to be spent on 904 or do they want it be spent on the island or do they want it spent on reducing the tax rate? I mean, what do they want? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. [laughter] Well, that was easy. Everybody can say yes. No. Um, sorry. I don't know. We can't maybe get it through this, but uh yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I'm just trying to figure out, you know, if we if we're going to pass this on to capital and they use it as a a document, how does that relate to land use?

The only the only way that it relates to it is is sort of along those lines. If I mean, if we have some of those development types that sometimes folks don't want are associated with higher returns, higher revenue. um you know it is much you know there's much more bang for the buck uh for a local government on a you know apartment building versus a scattered bunch of of housing units and so we'll have some we can have some discussion about that in in the land use plan ultimately that's up to the local government to decide though what what what is more important we're fine to pay to have a you know a low density pattern etc versus having better revenues for multif family. Um, and I think

maybe [clears throat] it's part of this is sort of sussing that out as we move forward down the process. That's why I think to me is this go from broad to more narrow is two is a simple choice. Y residential. Yeah. Not low net. I wouldn't ask anything about that. It's residential. Would you prefer future development to be primarily or substantially or whatever residential or would you prefer future development be primarily or substantially commercial retail services? Right? And you you might leave that third one just to see what that

or or the basically could be uh it could it could be a mix of the two also if you wanted to go along if they pick number whatever they pick is their highest one there or you only get to pick one or you get to pick one you just rank them in order. So you pick whatever you have as one then when you get to question three if you picked Yep. commercial there. You should be picking sure three types of nonres if you you know what I'm saying it to me that first you broadly hear from the people do they want more

housing or more commercial services and then when you get to question three you get to see out of what they said above kind of what choice. So if I may suggest one thing then on number two it sounds like the the qu the the the answer choice for number three is a bit vague. So if there if the first one is related to residential as in terms of the answer choice second one is commercial. The third one could be uh a selection for folks to provide whether they want it to be a um a mixture or a balanced uh or would we be better saying like open space? Um

because that's kind of like sort of the third choice. You either build on it with houses or commercial or not build on it. Yeah, we'll get into the specific need recreation. Well, we got the the specifics are in in in number three. I don't know. I leave it to I leave it to your genius to figure out what the third [laughter] I want to figure this out here for for uh you know to to make sure everybody's comfortable and and sort of come to consensus here. So

um I think in a simplistic fashion as the overall qu overall arching question not into the specific choices like like are provided in number three. So, uh, seems to me is the board comfortable with having a choice that's primarily residential. Another one that says, you know, incentivizing or encouraging more commercial options. And then the third being um the third one could just be can continue with our current use. We could ask it as a balanced mixed use. Yeah, that might make sense. You have residential, commercial, and then or sort of a balanced or mixed use approach. Sounds good. Yep. I like that. Okay. Yeah, it sounds good.

No, I think Yeah, I think that's good. Okay. All right. Here we number three includes the specific sort of more targeted selection choices in terms of uh future uses.

Well, I you know, I jumped ahead a minute ago. It seemed like in the 2016 survey, this was a binary yes or no or don't care. So, we got some interesting data on preferences. If if they're just picking the top three, I'm not sure we're getting, you know, yes, do you think we should have a hotel? Well, yes. Do you think we should Yes or no more restaurants? Yes or no? Um it it will be but the results are going to give you a That's right. That's right. So you'll you'll know I mean I guess it could stand out being

some towers on the left. Yes. But it I think it's helpful to know okay only you know whatever like a couple of people clearly folks do not feel as though this particular you know land use is desirable uh moving forward. Yeah. Then I say we remove that neighborhood scale and just go maybe restaurants, cafes, food service or something like that. Perfect. Can can we add something in the like a life care community kind of thing in the meaning like a age in place community? Is that is that what you're

Well, more of a like a retirement community that Yeah, I guess it's age in place, but it's more has more services than Okay. just living in a house and then moving into a building. Okay. And it would have food service and Okay. transportation involved and all that. More of a life care community. Okay. Um, I mean, are you an an assisted living facility? Is it I think I think it's a combination of things. It's a combination there. It's a very specific use that you don't really see a whole lot of here, but um,

well, the Brunswick commun I mean the community center in Are we talking about something like a senior center in Calabash or No. Okay. No, this is a it's it can be a fairly small community, but it could have different housing options inside of it. Maybe single family, then you transition to more of a high-rise apartment style, and then it would also have sort of like a continuing care, but they have like resort level amenities type thing. So, is this like an age in place facility or It is, but agent place is not a real good Yeah. term because it it doesn't senior lifestyle, senior

life care community, you know, all that kind of stuff. I think it might be good if we could add something like that because we only have I'd love to keep promoting that idea because we only have two residential choices, right? Mhm. Out of this list. That would give a third residential style choice. Yeah. I mean, the the top one could be taken out uh in favor of that because we have retail shops and commercial services. Um Yeah, but I like you like that too. The medical, dental, financial. I think maybe one additional pick like add add another one. We can add another one. Um we could take out the other.

We could pick from that list. It's pretty comprehensive. [laughter] you they should be able to get three from that list and not give them another unless you want to by root always give them another but it's it's up to your preference. I think it's great to have other. I think you need that. Yeah. Um so well we kind of deal with this in four. Um I'm looking at four and at the bottom providing housing options suitable for elderly residents. I mean, is this are we being redundant here and trying to get this into three or I guess that is a good point. Four does

four does cover this. Yeah. Yeah. So, should we just remove neighborhood scale and keep sort of these overarching Yeah. choices? Okay. Thanks. All right. What What are we What are we doing? neighborhood scale would be stricken restaurants and cafes just I I I restaurant cafes and other food services something like that we're not no not neighborhood not the restaurant and cafe no that will say but the term neighborhood scale qualifying words neighboring I thought better of that being in there

myself um so uh anyways so that will be removed we and then uh number three will sort will everything else will remain and we'll move on to four Mhm. So four is um types of housing. Yes. And there is um um an option there providing housing options suitable for elderly residents, aging in place, accessible homes, senior friendly design. Um and that could be expanded to

this one I guess. U so Um I'm trying to think about um senior friendly design amenities suitable resident agent placing I don't know I think you kind of it gets it's understandable there. Okay. All right. Yeah. Okay. Are we all good with the slate of choices here on number four before we move on? Okay. Good. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Um five is related to just overarching environmental issues. All right. So, the first one as a island owner, we don't have beach erosion. I know. I know. do a creep right now. We have sand in in en incursion and I think that well at the at the right now it you're very fortunate but we can we can remove it. Um you know the sand hasn't always been the way that it is today. Uh maybe it's maybe it is more beach protection or something related to that.

That's the I guess that was the question. really mess you up if I mention the word dredging. [laughter] Don't um [laughter] um I just try and keep it light. Sure. No, I know. Um but yeah, you you all are have uh are have a tremendous benefit of of the way that the sand is aligned on your beach now for some like years. Replace erosion with protection. Sure. beach protection and shoreline management, right? Yep. I think that's good because when we do dredge and we're trying to dump it out in the ocean or whatever, then y

you know that could that could affect the beach. Perfect. It's affected my sand sculpture. So, sorry. Sorry. Preservation of tree can canopy and natural open space. I'd really like to see because one of the things you hear most often is, you know, the uh the clear cutting and removal of trees. So, is there a way to kind of lay that out as an environmental issue? Preservation of tree canopy is a little murky. Um, I like it being there, but it seems like there should be something very specific about um, and then not allowing

on that. Should we I don't know. Number two, drinking water quality. We have zero control. I know. Maybe get that one get that one off and do something else. I'm happy to remove that. Uh, it's been a it's been a increasingly important topic. you don't, but as you know, stakeholders for receiving the county's water services, I think it sometimes can be interesting. Um, it's there's been a surprising amount of emphasis on that lately, but happy to remove that as well. Well, you know, I I kind of like it because I I do think it does, you know, our representatives

when they petition the county or the state should have in hand 80% of our people are concerned about drinking water quality, right? Why can't we get this done? And and I think that will be a handy thing to have in hand. So, I mean I mean I think there's room for another I mean water quality and canals creeks. Maybe that's one that can that can that seems a little redundant to me in terms of Okay. No, that one's good. That one's good. Okay. Well, I if we can just add one that specifically identifies preservation of and I'm not sure what how to phrase. Could we just put in parentheses

something? Could we just put in parenthesis no clear cutting or something like that clear cutting? Yeah. I mean the way I already think of it is you know preservation of the treated ambiencece of the community. Should we say yeah maybe it should be I still might leaning towards separate uh something related to development. Does it really apply to us? Somebody just enacted no clear cutting or strategy. Is that the county or town? Well, I think that there's some open burning regulations. Is that Southport? I don't remember who did that. Uh, Southport did Southport. Somebody else just did it, too.

But basically, it's talking to development without clear cutting. Yeah. I mean, and and the town does have in some rules about clear cutting and and you know, now It it it has um I mean you guys do have mitigation requirements uh right you know to to plant trees back. Um also the issue of burning that's another one we could I'm I'm we could we could put clear cutting and open burning as a selection choice. I I that will be uh but happy to to Does that sound good? Clear cutting and open burning.

Yeah. Yes. Clear cutting of trees and open burning. I would just put Yeah. Yeah. Oh, clear cutting of trees. Oh, thank you. Yeah, that would probably help to clarify. Open open burning of I don't know what they call that. Not wasted stuff. An open burning of debris. Yeah, debris. That's a an open debris burning. Right. Okay. So that so the modification there would be on five unless there's further changes. Uh erosion would be changed to protection. So it would be beach protection and shoreline management. And there'd be an additional answer choice for clear cutting of trees and open debris burning. Good.

Sure.

That will be alphabetical as well. Okay. All right. We're making good progress here. All right. Number six. um is related specifically to just transportation overall. Um the desk and bicycle savings safety um I think there's mean I'd like to somewhere see the word sidewalk in there. Um and um crosswalks.

Crossings is in there. Crossings is in there under pedestrian and bicycle safety. Yeah. But these are concerns that you'd have to word it weird to put sidewalks in there. Yeah. I mean, we could put um in parentheses sidewalks and cross sidewalks kind of crosswalks. you just kind of providing that would be good if that would be helpful. Yeah,

other than that I think it looks good. Yeah. Okay. Um All right. Seven is related to recreational opportunities.

Looks good to me. The indoor recreation and enhanced programming. What we're trying to get with the enhanced programming. It' just be additional recreational programming. Not necessarily facilities, but um indoor recreation facilities. I mean, we could remove indoor in favor of we I like the indoor one because I think we should have something. Okay. Enhance. I just don't know the enhanced. What does the enhanced program? It could just be more services. Um classes, things like that. Yep. It could be a separate item. Um, yeah, that's okay. Yeah, that's okay. Good.

Okay. Okay. Um, so number eight. Um, yeah, this is just sort of, you know, opening question about, you know, what what are folks favorite thing about Sunset Beach? Um, happy to reward that, too. Sometimes that's that can be helpful is kind of understanding what's important uh here, you know, what folks can consider to be the assets uh in the town. Well, we're trying to get a little more that's a kind of past looking. Do we sure we don't want to make it more forward looking or somehow we can.

What's your favorite thing about Sunset Beach? sort of like is now and then. Yeah. And we're trying to do something for the future. I don't know. I know what you're I understand the question. So, because most people what they like is also what they like to see in the future. I think your brain Yeah. Um but I I listen I'm happy to to to Well, it does drive what we how we feel about their answers. You know, if this is the most important thing, then you know, that's kind of driving or should we ask them just open what do you see in just open-ended? What do you want see in the future of Sunset Beach in the next 15 years? Yeah, that's sort of question number 10 a little bit.

What else we Well, I guess that could be 10. Yeah. Yeah, you could point that at 10. It Well, 10 is it's sort of the catchall. Yeah. Um I'm just like a lot of people will tell us that we don't want X Y or Z. Um and that's fine. That's a Listen, that's the purpose of this uh to for for them to let us know that. Well, I I do kind of like the idea of having the question feel a little more future focused. So, number eight. No, number eight. And I get your point about number 10. Uh number eight we could we could say is um

do we need number? just take it out because I think that's give a chance to I don't mind giving them a chance to have a thought and throw it out there on what they'd like to see. I I found that the responses of that can be pretty valuable. Uh and and I think you'll be you guys will be interested to see those too. Um some things that maybe we hadn't thought of, right? Um but um but I'm I'm certainly happy to happy to to change it. I think maybe just leave it. I mean, see what kind of answers we get. Yeah. I mean, we can't just give them all multiple choice, right? We got to let them, like Wes said, give them ideas that

How far, what is your best vision for Sunset Beach? We could, and I've done ones like that before. What do you got? People tend not to respond to it. They can't figure it out. Too abstract. And if you sort of just give them a simple, they'll just I can tell you what my favorite thing about it is about the town and they'll tend to provide responses. Planning board. Planning board. The planning board. Sand sculptures. Sand sculptures. [laughter] Um yeah, I see you're trying to get the future thought from what they like the most, which is okay. But okay. Well, no one has a better idea, so I guess we'll stick with it. Yeah. See what kind of answers we get. Yep. And we're not going back again and asking again. So,

sure. Once we finalize this and it's out, it's out. It don't change. So, there's there's going to be, you know, opportunities for input in public, too. Um, so that we we, you know, some of those specific questions, you know, what are your desires for the long term for the town that we can explain in context versus the survey? Um, all right. Are we comfortable here with this? There is also at the close of this uh just folks can reach out to town hall if they have questions. Um but if if I may, I'd like to go back through the just I want to make sure we're all on the same page on what the changes were if you guys are comfortable. Before before we do that, number nine. Yes,

we talked about that. Okay. So, me living in the ETJ and all my neighbors down that road and around the corner, would we check full-time resident property owner or would because ETJ does do not pay city taxes? That's right. So, Yep. Do you need to have two separate items there or not? I'm I'm uh you know, you could I'm open to uh you know, you would be potentially a non-resident property owner, uh which is a selection there at four,

but I think I'd rather put them into the first one because I'd rather say full-time resident property owner and parenthesis in town limits and ET ETJ if they know what it that's a Yeah, I know you but Yeah, I think I'd rather have them in I I would I would like to think of them as even though they're I notice a tax issue, but yeah, put them into the resident group. If you did non-resident property owner, a lot of people would Yep. not worried about the survey so much. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so listen, um

I'm open to you guys suggestions here and and it's sort of why it says what what best describes your relationship um you know to the town. We're not a referendum on this or anything limits and out of town. Yeah, just in town limits. Inside town limits and ETJ, I think or out of town limit. They could call and ask what what the hell is and so tell them what it is. I think they know it. I just don't want Yeah. I'd rather have those people in the first choice in my mind. Yeah. As a not in a non-resident property owner. To me, that is someone that's lives out of town. Yeah. Property. Lives in Charlotte and owns the property. Yeah.

In my mind. So, I'd rather see the ETJ people would answer that as a full-time resident property owner even though they're not inside the proper. So, so, so number nine would be property owner an ETJ resident. Yeah. I'm just going to suggest instead of saying ETJs as we've discussed, most people don't know what that is. Maybe we can come up with some simple language. Wes, maybe I can brainstorm a little beyondly limited. Yeah. There not that many people that live in the ETJ anymore. We've now that angel there's more than you think. No, there's more than you think. Yeah. A lot more than you think. There's probably 300 houses. 400 houses the county. Okay. county resident.

Yeah, because I mean people in Leland aren't going to come in on this. Um we could say full-time resident county property owner. I'm okay with that. Even if they're fairly far removed, we still if they're care enough about Sunset Beach to fill out the questionnaire and still like to know what they thought. Yeah, that's a good idea. Sure. Yeah. I just and you could ask for them to provide the neighborhood that they live in and then we would be able to u determine [clears throat] if they are ETJ or sunset proper. You going to give them a list or that's I know that's where it gets very complicated. Yeah, it's very

we could do full-time resident unincorporated property owner. I think folks know the distinction between that more so than ETJ. Yeah. So, you could say property owner inside town limits incorporated areas. What could you say? Full-time res res property owner inside town limits and other unincorporated areas. Um, would that be enough for them to say, "Okay, I'm I'm just outside, but I'm I'm this person." Yeah. I mean, so one, I think we're we're

some of this we're to some degree split splitting a little bit of hairs, but I mean, we want to try to get it as as close to right, knowing that, you know, our whole task here is not not the survey, right? Um, so I would just add another selection choice that said um, uh, uh, full-time resident slash unincorporated area unincorporated county area property owner. That works for me. Yep, sounds good. I'm looking at Kevin. Good. I'm trying to think. I'd be good. Well done, Wes.

Thank you. Um, let's go back through this though quickly. Um, can I mention something? Yes, sir. So, again, I had written down three questions of my own. Yep. Survey questions. Well, I had I got another one now, [laughter]

but I don't know. Maybe they're better handled at, you know, different public engagement. One was what types of projects should the town spend taxpayer money on? Um, another was which types of projects should the town spend parking revenue on? Um, my third one was what types of connections or improvements from the mainland to the island would you support? And I threw in, you know, bike, pedestrian, shuttle, car, other and and so is that too getting too specific for this? I mean, I think sort of the goal of this is that we'll sort of be able to have some guidance to that effect based on what we

Okay. based on what we hear. Um I I I would generally say it's kind of a little too specific. Um you know, as you guys get this data, it will help us move forward the recommendations that potentially relate to those things. Hey, the town needs to prioritize looking towards X, Y, or Z. Does that does that sort of make sense? I mean, yeah. And then when we have our first public engagement, could these things be, you know, something that they could write on a board or The only one I would maybe back up on here is the mainland to island question. Is could that be part of the transportation one somehow?

Could be. You know, do you want to see any additional methods of getting to the island? something like that. What was where was the transportation one number six there is oh destabilities crossing safety management beach access is there so that parking availability management beach act do we want to maybe replace that with additional additional methods of getting to the island from the mainland yeah I think that that would be a good opportunity to to update that that choice to address that. So take out that parking availability and management but since it's already

yeah topic and replace that I don't know maybe you want to word it steward of alternative transportation or access methods from the mainland to the beach island. Okay. Yeah. And I think you could just say the island because Okay, we got a new park coming. So that's right. I think we got to keep in mind that a lot of people are going to want to just go to the park. Maybe not everybody goes to the beach. Yeah. So, yeah, alternative accesses modes of access to the island mainland or that's assumed, I guess.

So, the response or the the answer choice would be alternative transportation methods from the mainland to the island. Good enough. Sounds good. Good. Yeah. Mhm. Okay. That's still alternative or additional one or the other cuz we already got the one. Obviously, you can drive there. I don't know if you want additional instead of alternative. You can walk there. You bike there. Yeah, of course. If you live in mud district, you can't safely walk there. There's no sidewalk to the bridge. Not from the mud district. No. But yeah, I guess what I'm getting at is, you know, people answer this and they're in the mud district. Sidewalk improvement would be a big thing for them.

Okay, got it. So, are we good with alternative or do you want it to be all additional? You It's you guys are the board here. So, I think alternative. Okay, alternative is good. Perfect. [snorts] Now, Ste, could you read the first one that you had? Can you read that again? Which types of projects should the town spend taxpayer money on? That's just a little too specific for this. Yeah. Okay. I mean I but I do want to boil down into this at some point because I think people we need to hear from people about what do they logically or responsibly want us to spend money on not us but the council.

Yep. And so absolutely when we get in discussions and let's say they're related to additional recreation facilities or bicycle and pedestrian is heavily you know identified then I think we need to make sure that we've got some targeted recommended actions and goals related to those to those things right um okay um so go ahead

I'm just going to go real quick through the through these make sure that I didn't miss any so the title will be updated did um Sunset Beach 2040 charting the course. Uh the narrative intro the word update will be removed. Um number one, maintaining community character while accommodating future development will be stricken and the option of supporting facilities for bicyclist and pedestrian will be added. Number two, um first answer choice would be related to residential. Second, um provide more uh I want future developments and Sunset Beach to provide more commercial options. And then the third, I want future development in Sunset Beach to provide a balanced uh land use pattern and mixture of uses. And then sorry,

three. Yep. Three, removing the word um the phrase neighborhood scale from in front of restaurants and cafes. So restaurants and cafes would would remain. I think the only reason being is folks just may not you know know what that is understand the difference.

Yeah. Um there was no suggested changes for number four. Number five, the first answer choice was uh beach beach erosion and shoreline management was modified to to beach protection and shoreline management. And then there was a a additional answer choice that will be included which is clear cutting of trees and open debris burning. Um, number six, we just modified that to remove parking availability and management. It will be alternative transportation methods uh from the mainland to the island. And then sidewalks and crosswalks will be added in parentheses next to um pedestrian bicycle safety. Number seven, no changes were made. Number eight, uh, we thought about it, but we decided to leave it as is. Um, number nine, there'll be a selection choice for full-time resident uninccorporated uh areas, county property owner. And then number 10 would remain as is. I miss anything?

All right. Would um would this be a good place to put down at the bottom you got a phone number, but the website address or is that or an email address? I don't see a website. The website's not on here yet. Uh we could add from for additional information. Uh call Lisa at home at [laughter] night. You just put the URL down of the website. For additional information and to follow along uh in the process, please visit plans sunset beach.com.

Is there an ability to get and store their email address? Um they may not give it to us, but we should give them the opportunity so we can reach back out to them. It's typically not something that we would do. um um optional obviously. Well, well, if they if they email, you know, if they reach out and and get it collected through the uh I can't I can't recall if we do. I think it's just an IP address that's captured. Um folks typically don't want to provide their email.

Well, yeah, but capturing an IP address is somewhat involuntary and is typically frowned on. in terms of but it's quite common in a situation like this to get more information or to get the results of the survey please give us your email address and then you can put them in a great big pile and now you've got a list of emails from concerned citizens that you can now go back they have a sunshine list already I'm looking over the ladies here real quick they they have the sunshine list already [laughter] yeah um and and when folks show up for the in person if they want to provide their you their information. I think that's that's typically a little bit more

signup sheet. Yeah. Well, the 904 corridor study had a sign up and then you you can put your email address and they've already sent me a an update thing. So, that would be my recommendation. Um your recommendation would be well just when when folks have when they show up during the two uh inerson opportunities they could provide their email address if they want. Um

my sense is from having done this for a long time is inperson email voluntary is a lot of resistance but somehow people on the web you ask for their email address they give it to you. Don't ask me why, but that's a pretty standard consensus in terms of the digital community. Got it. Um, everybody, it's not that we have to do anything with these email addresses, but at least they're an asset if we want to go back and use them. Everyone who attended the 904 corridor study sign up, provided their email address. Oh, that's good to hear. I think we'll stick that way.

All right. So, the answer is no. we collect them and people might think they're going to get something else and then they don't hear back by expect something right there's an expectation with that too. So no problem giving the the plan update page to go to and a hot link if it's if it's available at the time and then they can constantly they can bookmark that and if they want to keep up that way I think it's better. Well then on the hot link maybe [clears throat] there you can ask for their email address. No, you can't. But it's an public site, so they can just go to it, right? Yeah.

I'm I wouldn't put it here. Give them the link to the project site, whatever was called, project plan site or whatever. Yeah, it will be on there. And then certainly with the uh site uh for in-person engagement, very similar opportunity. Yeah. They provide their yeah email whatever was name address and email address at that time if they want to yeah but because there is then maybe some expectation of feedback so sure like 904 had feedback was expected so okay let's go that way

sounds good okay um the our next meeting um is scheduled for now to be um January 15th cuz we're so close into your So we need to put these meetings on our calendar for the year. This would be during your normal planning. Oh, it is our normal. Those are normal dates, right? This these are all normal dates in the morning. Yes, sir.

And so in the event, for example, you guys had a big agenda or something like that, we would we would adjust. we either, you know, have a special meeting um because the last thing I want to do is be trying to talk about the land use plan and you guys got, you know, room full of people in here and something um development related. Um so that's that's also why it said clearly anticipated schedule because, you know, as as things came up come up, it may have to be adjusted. Um okay, that's all. Uh thank you so much um for your time. Uh appreciate it. happy to answer any questions that you guys um have. Yes, sir. Back to the thing you said uh chapter one and two.

Are we going to get that information prior to that meeting? No, that that will be given at that meeting. At that meeting. Okay. And during that meeting uh it's possible some of that will be given to you uh in advance. You won't be anticipated to to weigh in on any of it. Uh if we're able to, we'll give it to you in advance, but the goal is right now to uh have that deliverable for you uh January 15th. given that we're getting ready to go into so holidays I will not be at the January 15th meeting so Stuart can conduct that meeting um and what's our time frame on releasing the survey to the public

so that that thank you and I was going to mention that so um if the board is comfortable with it these these changes can be made the and the survey link can be provided uh to the town for them them to be released um you know potentially as soon as next PE um I you know the other thing that can be done is uh we can send out we don't we don't want to be holding um uh you know official meetings but we could send out the revised version of this and say hey respond only if you notice that one of the one of the comments hasn't been incorporated

have the town look at it and then us look at it again we got a meeting coming up in December yet right I'd love to get it before then you want it out. It can wait. I just the sooner we can get it out the better. Uh but when December December 18th, I believe 18th before Christmas. Yeah. 18th. If we can send it by email and and just thumbs up. Yeah. If you don't need to respond, I'll I'll include directions about it um to to give to Kimberly if you guys are comfortable with that. Um and then um yeah, so if the town's happy with us, send all five of us the final version and give us three days to Yep. respond

to respond and if we don't hear from us, then it's a goal. Sounds good. And when will the website go live? Uh it it already has a coming soon on there. There's nothing to put on there yet. Uh this link once it is uh once everyone is satisfied will be on there as well.

Okay. And I will also add that no none of this draft material for the plan will ever go on that website uh until you all uh are give give until after you guys have reviewed it and said hey it's fine to put it on there or we don't want to put that material up there until um you know and until requisite revisions are made. It's all public record but as you as advisory board it's you know you guys need to put your eyes on it first. So, okay. Think we're good. The second and last 904 corridor study public input meeting is December the 3. Okay. So, I'll ask for us not to release this survey until after that public input meeting.

I should have asked that. Yeah. We don't want to confuse the two folks. So, good point. So, somewhere around December 8th or 10th or something. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Thank you, Wes. Thank you all. Can I ask another question about you? I've been holding back. No, it's okay. Um, and we haven't talked about this, but in your proposal, there was the optional service add-on. Yep.

Um, I know that wasn't approved, but you know, when I read through that, there were items in there that I really liked. There were items in there that I think went beyond what we we may need. Can we still, as we go through this, can we still add some of these optional items? I mean, I know council's got to approve it. It's a budget change and all that stuff, but is your consultant still on board. Would they be open to additional

Bolton Bolton and Mink the urban design? Yeah, I mean they they provided the fee that exactly as it went right in there exactly the fee that they had for those services. Um or is it something that we could we could cross into another budget year right before could be that too. Something that can then be put into the next budget year. What would the time frame for that be Lisa that it would have to be requested by? Uh we start budget in January. So whenever the if this is something that you want to go ahead and look at, I would start considering that. Yeah. Um when's it when's the end of it? So like it starts adopted in June. So and the council

somewhere between January and April, we got if if you want to make a request is get it in then, right? The council in the past has started with the planning session in February. They do department um meetings for presentations in March and then the council finalizes the budget in April. Okay. Where's our little That's how it's been done in the past. So, one thing I'd just like to say is that I love the opportunity of Bolton and Mink being involved in this project as well as the 904 corridor study. And I actually spoke to one of the Bolton and Mink people about that.

Yeah. And because I think if we could somehow link this together, instead of them doing their thing or we're doing this thing, um I think if we could add some some additional services, you know, I had talked about small area plans or something like that. I think some of this stuff that they put in here was just way beyond what I was what I was really thinking. I'm I'm just making a note to self. It looks like by the March 19th meeting on our preliminary schedule, which is after the first budget enga public engagement, we would also then need to consider if we're going to request the council to look at any budget things

and we'll know a lot more by then. So that's kind of our target framework is I would back that up to February so that I would be able to um present your request to the council in the March department meetings. Um those that planning calendar for the budget will also be adopted either in January I think it is January they'll adopt the budget calendar. I don't know. I don't know how much we'll know by February 19th, but I guess yes, if we can, but a drop dead date is we don't ask for something by March 19th. We're not asking for it probably though. Why not?

Right. Let's look at it that way. The sooner the better, right? But we'll get it in. I don't know enough information. We'll get it to them as quickly as you get it to us. Okay. All right. would um to facilitate that, would it help if in January we talked more in detail about that's extra services or scope or I

I mean sure I mean ultimately um you know it's going to be up up to them right um but if you have a refined scope of work um that you know you wanted to provide I think that that would be fine and then I think the next stage certainly I can I can get that to you know Grant and and and the folks at Bolton and Mink um just to get their blessing uh but ultimately as you know that you know the additional cost would have to be approved by the council but happy to help facilitate that if does that answer your question? Yeah, I think so. I think so. Yeah. Um, last question.

The bicycle and pedestrian master plan or the town's bicycle and pedestrian plan hadn't been updated since 2007 [snorts] or nine somewhere in there. March 2nd of 2009. No. Is that something that Bolton and Mink is capable of doing? I don't know. you said that that wasn't something I've done those in the past. Um but I I you know I feel like there's probably a a a vendor that's um would be a better better selection. Um we have they may do those

already, right? Is that approved the one from the Calabash Town Park to the Sunset Beach Town Park? I don't know what it's going to look like, but

that's a kind of a go. Is that true? We did receive the grant from GATES for the Sunset Beach portion of that. Uh we are trying to get it on the DO's restructuring plan that will happen in 2028 and then they would um engineer it, design it and and pave it. And I think that's sort of a se potentially a separate uh item to what Stuart is alluding to. Stuart is sort of looking at what would be, you know, just a townwide um comprehensive bicycle and pedestrian master plan. And

but you have to know that one's already going to be there. Sure. Or plan to be there. So So what I'm also link to it or whatever, right? Yeah. So what I'm also thinking is we're getting all this public input and a lot of it I think is going to be transportation, pedestrian, bicycle safety issues and then if we only use it for this document then feel like maybe we've wasted something and could could we have this in the back of our mind that we're going to turn around and and do this

the the bike ped plan. I mean I think the if I recall the town the DOT still provides grants for those planning uh projects. Um the only other thing that I would add is that where that can come into play as part of this process is and what I think would you know based on what I know here you know having more elaborate description that that goes with the future land use descriptions related to the types of b types of facilities transportation facilities that you know would support those um right you know um

yeah but I I think Part of what the land use plan can do is to convince parties that this is something the community takes very seriously. I mean, I'll give you a perfect example. We couldn't even persuade the hotel to build a sidewalk a half a block to get their customers to the restaurants that are in the shopping center. And so I think you know having another piece of ammunition where we can say listen if you want to be here this is really important um say yes no call the police whatever but so I think having that incorporated into this would be very helpful.

Yeah I mean we'll certainly document all of that that feedback. Um you know and still most of the bike plan that was done back in the early 2000s is all on town roads. Mhm. You know, the GSATs, the NC DOT, none of those grants are going to apply, right, to town roads, right? That's what we were able to get DOT to partner with the town for the bike lane on Sunset Boulevard North and on the island. Yeah. Is was the result of that,

right? It's just that if you read through the bike and ped plan and almost nothing corresponds to what either what we have or what we're trying to do that it was before the bridge. So I mean they had no clue what was coming. Yep. Well, if the survey indicates and it's highly likely that it might that that's a town interest in the public then. So that then we got to look what's the next step to Yeah. So that bike head plan had no public input. It was just somebody wrote it. I think that was Michael Norton maybe. Um was that your high school project?

No, it's not. Uh but that was Michael Norton with McGill Associates, I believe, that did that. Um I worked with the town on a uh specific to Sunset Boulevard vision plan some years later. Um but I I think let's you know perhaps um we can Ron as staff planner could look up and provide some information about what grants are available for doing those plans specifically and I think that there's a fairly minimal um uh match of the local government. Um, so, um, you know, I think that could be, it may not be able to exactly

happen concurrent with this, but it could be teed up, you know, following. Well, that's kind of what I'm getting at. If we're going to get all this public input, we've got a lot of data, we've got a lot of resources, and then can we spin that off and do that? that that that's a precise thing that you know that this plan should do. Identify things like that that that are you know projects the town should take on. Yeah, because it really needs an update. Okay. Uh thank you all. Thank you, Wes. We'll wrap up. Yes, we will get

Kimberly will send out revised versions of this uh shortly and I appreciate your time this afternoon. Thank you. as added uh earlier uh because the public has uh patiently sat through everything. Uh period of public comment, anyone can come up and state their name and address. Uh and then three minute comment. Uh I guess can I limit it on just just topic Lisa or it has to be anything? It can be on anything preferably topic. So, anybody, excuse me, anybody like to comment? Mike Pel, 230 Barney Place Drive. Uh, the only comment I had is when everybody here was talking about retail commercial, the normal public, if you talk out to the people, uh, they don't consider medical as part of the commercial. And if we're looking to see if their input is they'd like to see more of that in the community, I think it should be added to the list. And that's

Yep. Anyone else? Shorten tweet.

Sir, my name is Brian Sullivan, 340 Seat Trail Drive East. Uh, first of all, really enjoyed this a work session trying to get the questions right. the it strikes me that the questions are right, but I'm I'm guessing that you probably already know the answers that there's going to be some activist groups about clear cutting access to the beach, that type of thing that they already have their answer and they're probably pretty well organized, [clears throat] excuse me, to call them activists is not not really fair, but it's um it's just that they're well organized. the idea of cutting trees, having deer running through their yard, that's part of the the problem. So, it strikes me that would be a good idea for the board to for for you all to start considering your answers. Uh, as much as you've got the questions now, but start formulating the answers. Uh, Ron, you mentioned the focus groups. They already exist and you may already have what you're going to need to put this together. Just a thought. Okay. Good. Anyone else, please Curry, 232 Sea Trail Drive East. Um, kind of behind on mics with the medical. Maybe when you asked the commercial, could you define that? Cuz I did a little Google thing. commercial includes factories, everything else. And I don't think we'd want that. So maybe limit it, you know, light commercial or something like that. Okay. And then the other thing is um when the survey, you're going to ask will the public will we get the results

of the you know the hard data? Yes. Yes, we will. And you may want to because you were talking about email address put in there if you would like the results of this survey provide your email address and that way another avenue for you to capture it. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Anyone else? Okay. Thanks for the comments. Anything else from the board or entertain a motion to adjurnn? I so move. Second. All in favor? I meetings adjourned. Thanks. Thanks everybody.