City Council - Regular Meeting

We'll call the July 28, 2026 City Council Committee to order. We'll remind everybody to silence your cell phones. Ms. Bonita is going to lead us in an opening prayer, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.

Most heavenly and gracious Father, we bow our heels right now.

Thank you, Lord, for this day. Thank you, Lord, for your relief, your guidance, your sharing, and your protection, Father God. Father God, keeping your hands wrapped around us as we come in and as we go out. Father God, I ask you right now to decrease each and every one of us on this forum right now. You increasing us to make the right decisions for the city, Father God. These blessings be asked in your name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen.

And the result of which is Danny. Well, welcome everybody to our meeting today.

I don't know if I have a bronze yes, I have to have to have a little bit of all here.

I really agree with your very good sense here.

Very well, I don't know what you're saying, you know, we're going to have a long way.

Yes, I get it. Thank you. Yeah. All right. I think so. Yeah.

Before we proceed, I request that the general public say man and go out and make a statement.

I'd like to address the matter of the Jerkins photos so that we can move forward in a constructive way. First, I want to sincerely apologize to anyone who was hurt or offended by the photos I took. That was never my intention, and I do understand why it caused concern. At the core, I believe Ms. Mitchell and I likely share the same goal, a desire to see our city strengthened, our community's history respected. My focus as your city manager is and will continue to be on public safety, economic development, infrastructure, and affordability for our residents. While I regret the impact of the photos, I do not regret attending the school board meeting to speak about the Rockville incident. That issue directly relates to several of our top priorities and the long-term well-being of our community. We live in a country where open dialogue is not only allowed but encouraged, and I welcome that. I am committed to working together, even when we may disagree, to find a solution that benefits Perry as a whole. And I welcome the opportunity to collaborate with anyone who shares the desire to move our city forward in a positive and respectful way. I'd also like to ask Attorney Demps to conduct an internal investigation into my actions and report back to the council.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

All right, again, I look forward to receiving requests from the now-involved. The council welcomes you to this meeting. It's time to set aside for our citizens and general vote to address council on any matter not included on the agenda. We have anybody here that's going to speak on something that's not on the agenda? I think we got some young folks here that want to address. Hello. How are you?

My name is LaVonna LaValle. My address is 7260 South Red Patrick Road. I'm out of the county, but my businesses are at 210 East Main Street. My husband, Joe LaValle, and I both own and operate Taylor Gymnastics, Cheerleading and Dance, and Kids Corner. We also run a full-time farming operation south of Cary. I want to let you know that my husband and I pour into the youth of Taylor County every day of the week. We absolutely love them. And without the place that we have, I don't know what our kids would do because we're very, very limited. We offer so much different types of instruction from ballet, point, jazz, tap, lyrical, contemporary, hip-hop, free professional dance classes, free school gymnastics, recreational gymnastics, competitive gymnastics, cheerleading, and theater. We also have a nonprofit that we recently started because, unfortunately, you know, times are hard right now in Taylor County. You have in front of you a folder with the information that you would like to help to the donate of the youth at Taylor Gymnastics Cheerleading and Dance and Theater. We've also established an ambassador program that will help to help them become leaders because one day these are the future of Taylor County and we want to pour into them. We've had ladies to attend the FSU School of Dance that's come out of our program, along with a collegiate gymnast, my head instructor, Jenny Jackson. This year, we're excited to send our largest junior Olympic team to Iowa. We have nine talented, hardworking, and well-grounded young ladies that will travel there to represent you here in Perry. We love that we have a national stage and we get to share them. At this time, with your permission, I'd like to introduce to you the PGCD&T 2026 Junior Olympian Team. Artistic Gymnastics, Amayla Beasley, please stand. Isabel Chapman.

Kimberly Anderson. Kalina Williams.

Kenzie Meza. And now for our trampoline and tumbling team, Ms. Gracie Vann, Kirby Gerald, Hannah Stiles. Ladies and gentlemen, we always get the bad news, but I would love to give you some good news. This is your TGCC AT. Auburn Jenkins, sorry. Okay, sorry if I missed anybody. And most importantly, I want you to know that we have top-notch staff. I'd like to introduce you to Head Coach Jenny Jackson-Sharky. Keep not here, but Lisa Jackson. Amber Hurst. Allison Diamond. Mary L. P. Blanco. Penny Lee. Kelly Taylor. And Rachel Copeland. Everybody will be traveling to Iowa next week. I also want to take just a minute, if Jody Weeks, our booster club treasurer, could come forward and just explain a little bit what we have going on this Friday that we'd like to invite you to. and also for all posters and liberals. Thank you for your time.

So this Friday, Sheriff Wayne Padgett is actually hosting for our gymnasts a fish fry at Blue Coast Federal Credit Union. So that's July 31st, where we're going to be selling plates of fish and two sides and a drink to make sure we can help support our young gymnasts and get them to Iowa. So because things are very difficult in Taylor County, we do have some girls who have a challenge to get there. So we are raising funds to try to help them. There's a couple of different things we're doing. So local businesses can apply for some banner fundraisers that actually allow them to market their own business in our gym, and it would stay up for a full year. And there's different levels of banners they can get. They can write it off on their business taxes, all for marketing. We have a barbecue pork meal coming from August. The meal is actually on September 4th, but the ticket sales will be from August 1st to the 31st, where the girls will be out there selling all the barbecue pork dinners as well. Ms. Stiles will be taking care of the meat and getting everything set up. We have a bingo happening down at the Shriners and a 50-50 raffle. We're actually doing that twice, once in September and once in February. And then the girls will be doing an online auction November 6th where they actually get to raise different donations through the community. And then we sell them online for the girls. And all the funds and proceeds go directly to their booster account, which is through the nonprofit Taylor Gymnastic Booster Club. And it's helping a little account for each girls to pay for their coach fees and their travels and their Leo's. So that's kind of how we get there. So just know we're always looking for donations either through our foundation or as well directly to the gymnast by participating in all of the fundraisers that we have. So we wanted to make sure everybody was aware of those.

Thank you for your time.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you so much. Thank y'all. Well, anything that is not on the camera

Hearing and seeing no one, move on to item five, the heavy bids articles at this time. All right, moving on to general business, item six A. Council to discuss grant overview. Council to take any actions deemed necessary.

Let's move that one later. We've got a lot of guests here. I'm going to get them out the way. They've got somewhere they've got to be. Move it right before my evaluation.

We don't?

I'll move it toward the end. We'll go to FGU next. Bill 9-6B, council to discuss FGU directive to accept the gas meter project. Council to take action if necessary.

Good evening, Council. I'm Council. Item 6B addresses the City of Perry's gas meter replacement project and specifically the management of that project. My name is Robert Graves. I'm Member Services Manager at FGU. Also in attendance with me tonight is Alex Rodriguez, our Operations Specialist, and Katie Hall, our CEO and GM. FGU is a nonprofit municipal joint action agency with 27 members throughout the state, and the City of Perry is one of those members. John, you want me to wait one second? My apologies. Get that out of the way. Probably on slide two right now. My apologies for that. I'll start back with who we are, which is MGU is a nonprofit joint action agency with members throughout the state. Perry being one of those members since 2001. we provide a number of next desk services including grant writing grant management and project management and all three of these services are currently services being provided to the city of gary i think what's important to note with these services is the city of gary pays an annual member All the services are provided at no additional cost to that membership fee. All right, so moving back to the grant management and project management, I want to highlight a few of FQ's current efforts. The first one on there is a natural gas pipeline replacement project that's going on in the city of Milton. That is a $10 million project replacing roughly 30 miles of pipeline. And that one, FTU was awarded project management responsibilities through an RFU process. Next on there is the anode bed replacement. That's something that we've been working with the city of Live Oak on. That one actually came, was substantially completed roughly two weeks ago. And finally, FTU is assisting three of our members with regular station replacement projects. And the city of Perry is one of those members that we're assisting with that. And all of these projects, oh, I'm sorry. Well, all the projects that I just discussed are federally funded projects, which involve reporting requirements to the federal government. And with the exception of that first project, the City of Milton One, FGU assisted in drafting the grants that led to the awarding of those federal funds. One more project that I want to highlight for tonight is a meter replacement project for the City of Mariana. FGU became the project manager for that project earlier in this year, in February. And this project is similar to scope, which is one of the reasons I wanted to highlight it here to the project that's the subject of this agenda item. For this project, we have successfully selected a qualified vendor, five meters to name my modules, and we've selected a qualified contractor to install this equipment. And lastly, we actually held a kickoff meeting with the city and we have mentioned the entities and field related activities should be starting shortly.

We're going to let them all there.

Yes, sir. Excellent. And as I stated, the Mariana project is similar in scope to Gary's project, which is estimated to consist of approximately 1,560 meters. And this will require third-party assistance for the provision of materials and installation. Additionally, based on initial quotes, it appears that this will be proportionally similar. I guess one thing I did want to mention For both cities, there are water replacement projects going on . So the council, based on the summation of our presentation, XU is recommending that you authorize the execution of a directive to Florida Gas Utilities to provide project management and grant management services for the city's natural gas replacement project. That concludes my portion of the presentation. If there's any questions. Are we looking to get it started? Yes, sir. We can reach out to the vendors, start getting the quotes, and then as that moves along, we can, similar to the Mariana Project initiative, kick off meetings with the city staff.

They've already given us approval to use piggyback contracts. If there's anything in Mariana's, we'll just piggyback off of what they do.

Very good. All right, seven questions. Thank you. Yes, sir, thank you.

I need a motion to move forward with the directive.

Motion.

Second. Second. Dr. O'Brien? Yes. Dr. Hanson? Yes. Dr. Woodfall?

Yes. Dr. Landry?

Yes.

Mr. Harrison?

Yes.

FDU to discuss potential Henderson Columbia project and can't believe they can get anything necessary.

It's a good whatever you want to call it, right? So as Robert said, I'm Katie Hall. I'm the general manager and CEO of Florida Gas Utility. I've been in front of you a couple times in the past and nice to see you all again. Here's a great opportunity we want to talk about, but it's was brought before Council several, several years ago, and we kind of set it on the back burner, but I think it's a good time to revisit this project. So we're talking about a natural gas expansion to Anderson, Philadelphia. Back in 2018, we ran a two-inch line to serve just their heater. They have always wanted, from the get-go, they wanted enough gas for the burner. That's the large load that they use that heats up all the asphalt. However, that would require significantly more gas than what your existing system, the lines up front, can provide for that. So we would need to run back to the gate station and run a new six-inch high-density line to run to the plant. It's a little over three miles. However, this is a really good time to look at it for a couple reasons. One is it makes, they're using more gas there, so I think your payback period is a little better. But two is we received grant funds, or the city of Perry, I should say, received grant funds to replace your gate station and your regulator stations. And so part of the component of this project would be doing work at the gate station to connect in this high pressure line. We can put that into the grant, so it actually saves you quite a bit of money to do these simultaneously. The next slide shows you a map of where we would need to run. So your existing gate station, come down and go down, I forget what road that is, I apologize, over to the Anderson Columbia plant. It's about 3.3 miles. It's a fairly straight shot. right-of-way room, but it shouldn't be very complicated construction. So it's a fairly straightforward project from a construction perspective.

Is that down to the 21 or up to the 21?

Is that what you know? I took off the labels trying to make it cleaner.

Are we heading to where it becomes a front view?

Yes, ma'am. So I'm going to explain it. Yeah, we're going to go right into Costco. I know that's the million-dollar question, right? It is. So here's the cost estimate to run that. It's roughly 3.3 miles or $17,000. So the engineering, the labor, the materials, the engineering is actually, we know what that cost would be. It's slightly higher than we were expecting, only because there is a railroad crossing that is a little bit trickier, but this includes permitting. So that's actually a very good price to the facility and going underneath the railroad. The labor and the materials are an estimate based on other projects we've recently put out to bid. We just took the same cost per foot and put it in gear. It's a very round number, but it should be very accurate. And then there's a 10% contingency. As you'll see, that's about a $930,000 project. So a significant project, but I'm going to show you how that payback works. So on the next slide, if you honor the same rates that they have right now for their heater, that's $5 a month customer charge and 51.54 cents per CCF. Their estimated usage based on last year is roughly 255,100 cubic feet. If you put that through on the estimated margin, it's a little over $130,000 a year in revenue to the city. That is not gas costs. That's just revenue. That's a payback of just over seven years. When I was talking with the city manager about this, he said, well, let's look at it if we did a five-year payback. So getting it as close to five years as we could You'll see the only thing that changed here is the rate for CCF. We added 20 cents to it. So it takes it from 51.54 to 71.54. This is just to show you that what we did in the past with Anderson Columbia and other cities is we give them an initial five-year term, give them a rate like that, and as soon as that five years pass, your capital investment is covered, then they go back to a normal rate. They've been very agreeable to that because they understand that the city's putting up the capital that they're going to need to do something to get that payback period. So we have not pitched this rate to them, but at other facilities, they've been agreeable. Other considerations on the next slide is what we typically do is we would send them an indicative term sheet that just has high level. Here would be a rough term, so we could say a five-year term. Here's what that would look like. Additionally, credit requirements. So in other locations, Anderson Columbia has been willing to provide a letter of credit that covers the capital investment. And then as they pay back over that payback period, it decreases year over year. So for instance, they're going to cover it. And then if they use more gas than we expect, that might get paid off in four years. If they don't use as much gas or they decide to close down, you could pull on that line of credit, cover your capital investment. No harm, no value, still the pipeline of the graph. So you're not financially at risk. for the capital investment. Additionally, this is not a dedicated line to Anderson Columbia. So if you were to have other customers that would connect into the line, that helps pay that even quicker. So this is just assuming they're the only customer on the line. The next slide is similar to what Robert just presented to you from a project management perspective. This is something FGU does lots of these gas main expansion projects. So we can do complete turnkey. I know you guys have a lot going on. This is something we're happy to take off your plate at no additional cost. So we will secure engineers, perform the design services, acquire the permits, again, including railroad, which is a little bit tricky. We can select contractors, put it out for bid. We can acquire materials and manage day-to-day constructions. So you can be as involved as much as you want, or we can just call you when there's a problem, and we'll bring you a solution to it, but we'll just bring you when you need to be involved. Otherwise, we hand you over a fully completed project, and you just start generating revenue. So our recommendation tonight is to approve this gas main expansion and authorize FGU to be your project manager on this.

Question. We're going to abandon that two inch line.

No, it would be supplemental. You, you still serve other, it just runs back on that map. I don't know if you could pull that up. It's just across the road. It's only, it's basically that little tiny portion there from the main road up to Anderson Columbia. I would, I would recommend leaving it in there just in case it's a, it's a redundancy and you just close the valve if you need it or need to, but they'll connect into the same meter set at the same location.

Anderson Columbia so a six inch line I do have the max MCF that that line can handle this would be this load would be roughly half at the max hour of race so on a normal day

you would have more space on that. It's only if they have a plant shut down and they have to turn it on, they'll use more gas initially.

Oh, there you go, John.

Can you say something about the insurance policy, too, for that line of credit?

That's line of credit.

They've got a business. They're not going to have a line of credit anymore.

You pull on that. So they pay for it, and it's sitting there in your name. So that's how we did it in Lake City. They're not in your business, but if they do go out of business, that's when you turn that in and then you actually use that. It's earmarked for the city of Perry.

Does anybody ever borrow the money at a low cost, pay it back with the actual payback, not tie up their own cash?

Yes.

Is that an option?

Of course.

In five years, you're going to be making $132,000 a year in profits. want to pay for and then making profit. I do it. But I think y'all should direct me into looking into finding a low interest loan. Do it. I don't have a podcast right now. I'll call it. Okay.

Any questions? I'll entertain a motion. Which motion? To move forward.

Sorry.

I have a public question. Thank you. Good afternoon.

Hi, Carl Badgett, 413 Worley Way. Just a quick question. I'm curious, why wouldn't Anderson Columbia pay for a dedicated line, not put the cost burden on the city, and the city make revenue off their gas use? When I got the city to come give me a quote to run a gas from my Generac to the other side of my house, it's $22 a foot that I had to put the bill for. Why are we subsidizing the business? It was very profitable. Pay taxpayers' dollars to give that to a company to subsidize it. We thought they were going to get here in five years. They could relocate. And now you've sunk a million dollars, but no retirement. That's my problem.

Thank you.

I can answer part of that if you'd like. Part of that is generator usage is very sporadic, which is very common for a lot of these cities to require that on a homeowner, unless they put other gas appliances that we know they're going to be able to pay that. If we don't have any hurricanes, the reason for that generator to turn on, that line could take 20 years to pay that, if ever. And a lot of times the generators might not even be HAB-Masyn Moyer- used at that point that's just just to answer that to you i'm not picking on you're just telling you guys very standard. HAB-Masyn Moyer- On the other hand, with Anderson Columbia, they do have other alternative fuels. HAB-Masyn Moyer- And for a large user with five year payback that is always a good investment the city they're not in the business of running gas lines they're not in the business of operating containing them the city is this is a service they provide. HAB-Masyn Moyer- This would require several. large residential neighborhoods to offset or to generate the same amount of revenue that you will generate from one customer. And it is not a dedicated line, which is also beneficial to any growth that you experience. You can run neighborhoods off of it. You can run other commercial load. Just to give a little clarification. Very good point, and I appreciate that.

One more question. You did say there was a two-inch dedicated line already there, correct?

It's not a dedicated line. It's a two-inch service line, which is just like a service line that runs to your house, which is very commercial.

So there's already gas there for the residents in that location, correct?

To some degree, yes. But it's a two-inch line, so it's limited. So that wouldn't get back in. But if you were to come say that generator, that would not work.

I mean, I'm all for spending money to make money. Yeah.

But if Anderson-Columbia needs gas, only Anderson-Columbia pays for gas, while the city opens. Well, I'm guessing if they paid for the line, it would be just there to have it. Correct. Or they would attach it to it for anything else. Correct. Or sell gas to anybody else. Correct.

And then you also would have to trust them to operate and maintain it safely as connected to the core system.

How long has this project been going in Lake City?

We did that in 2015, I believe. Mariana also has a facility. We work with Anderson Columbia quite a bit.

I didn't want to ask to see any statistics. What did you say?

Sorry, I can't. Oh, I couldn't hear somebody's better speech. I can't.

My name is Regina Edwards. I'm from 212 K Drive. And if anybody could do it, that's what it is. I'll fuck it up. The thing I want to know is, have you brought any of that information with you to actually show from other cities how that works, the benefits of it? the payback from it, and how it works, how the nation's working. That way, we don't just hear it from once.

We see evidence.

This is kind of the evidence, right? Because every city is slightly different. The cost of the line, it's different mileage. It's different. It's the exact same calculation we do, just on those specifics. So the payback period, the rates, all of that, this is based on those cities.

Yes, I understand that, but it still does not give us evidence of the act. You're telling us what it will do. You're not telling us what it has done.

No, it has done. I mean, based on their usage, that's what this is. We know what these plants run because they're an existing plant. They're just using diesel and they're using fuel oil. So we know exactly how much they burn. We converted it then to gas. So these are the numbers. These are not hypothetical. This is how much that plant actually burns.

And so it also says how it affects, like he just asked about the line and how much performance is. Is that included based on the interest of the line and the performance of the growth? Is that included? I'm sorry. You keep clarifying. I don't understand. She said there's a connect to line, right? A line that's already there that she's going to connect it to.

We're going to. We're running it from the gate station. We're going to run a new line because the one right now is like two inch. That's not enough to serve the load. So we need to run a six inch line, which is much bigger. And you can't connect a six inch into a two inch, right? That's bottleneck. So we have to run up to the gate station and run a brand new six inch line down. So it'll parallel a lot of that two inch line. So then we'll connect them so it'll be looped so that you just have more available gas on that whole section.

So it'll change the way we're getting more.

No, it will. So everybody hooked into the two inch will remain into the two inch, but we'll connect them so that you just have additional ability. So like on a really cold day, people who are generators kick on, if they're pulling from the two inch, the six inch can supplement the two inch. But you say you can't have six inch. You can connect them. You can't, it can't be two inch feeding just a six inch, right? But you can connect them to like the six inch is still going to run that whole thing. It'll be connected. It can be connected with a two inch as an additional, um,

Pressure. Which was my major question. Have you used to have evidence of showing how that works and have evidence in previous .

Yes. I mean, that's just flow rate analysis. So we know how much pressure is in that line, and we know what it requires to maintain that pressure. And how many people have been using it consecutively? Well, your 2-inch is not having any problem serving the customer load. What is existing now is irrelevant, I guess, on this. This is just giving you more growth expansion. You don't have a problem right now with your existing load. This is just giving you the ability to grow new customers.

OK. So if Anderson's using all they're going to use? Right now? Yes.

No, they would like to use a lot more. We can't get them enough.

That's what I'm getting at. They want growth. They want coal flow. They want to buy more gas. Yeah, they want to buy a lot more gas. We can't sell to them before we get out.

Correct. We can't get enough gas to them. They want to buy a lot more than what we're able to get to them right now.

The two-inch is not enough.

It's not enough. Correct. And it's lower pressure. So it's lower pressure, and it's just a small diameter, right? So we're going to do a large diameter and a higher pressure so we can get a lot more gas there. So if you're going to invest that money, invest it for growth opportunity on top of it, not just to meet the need, because then you're going to be in the same boat

in the future. And in case another business in that area. Exactly.

And you can see in that area, there is a lot of vacant land. That would be a good place for a larger . So you would be set up, and that would be a good selling point to them.

That's a lot of .

Yeah, it's a really ideal location.

John, what would you suggest?

If you're looking to get low-cost loan, put the line in. It's a no-brainer. Just similar to what we did with the apartment complex. We're not collecting property taxes for the first five years and then 75% the next five years. It's the same thing. For the first five years, we're just not collecting revenue off of it. You can make revenue for year six and beyond.

You're not making all of it going to zero until we're on to pay off.

We'll lose a little bit of interest over the five years.

But the same will be zero income until we're on to pay it off. Yes, sir. Come on back. Come back here, please.

Thank you. Given the new information, could we perhaps get Anderson Columbia into a contract that if they leave that area in the first five years, they put the rest of the bill? Okay. Perfect. Thank you.

You got it.

Correct. You are protected. And they understand, right? Cities can't risk a capital investment without that protection. They're reasonable about that.

There's no cost.

The whole project is roughly $934,000 is our best estimate. Also, we would true it up once we have actual costs.

It'll lay right along with the other amounts. You'll have your right-of-way.

Yeah, it will all go right away.

Yeah, generally.

Any questions or comments?

I wish I knew that answer.

I don't know. I would guess that Anderson Columbia built that facility. Do you know how long they've been there?

It might have been there

You know, you're right.

Yeah, it's even worse. We should have put a gas in Abraham. The water line. It's somebody.

It's somebody doing something that they don't have a clue what you're doing.

I wasn't hearing those decisions from me. Otherwise, I would be able to explain the thought process.

Do you have any more discussion or questions?

I'll have to take a motion.

I have a motion. I have to bring that back to you anyway.

Okay.

It's giving me to go ahead and move forward with work on the project. I'll make a motion for that.

Is everybody in agreement with that?

He's just now watching me cry.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank y'all. Okay.

This is good news. Well, you know, the fine good news.

There you go.

I got one coming.

And if anybody else would like to come to the right here.

OK. Good afternoon. Good evening. Thank you all so much for having me.

Don, give me your. Here we go. OK. So this is our 2026 City of Perry Preliminary Tax Roll presentation. If you all have any questions during this whole entire presentation, please Stop me and I'll be glad to answer any questions that you may have. This year, we've got 76% of our total taxable value is real property and 23% is tangible property. And as y'all are very aware, real property is the buildings and the land that sit on the actual properties. And the tangible personal property is the equipment used for businesses.

What's the centrally assessed?

Centrally assessed. Yes, ma'am. Thank you for asking. So that's the 0.1%. And the centrally assessed is the railroad lines. So that is also assessed with the tax roll. And we get that information from the Department of Revenue each year. Okay. We have the 2026 real property tax full value breakdown on page three. The majority of your tax roll is improved residential property. And 32% is commercial, so you have a food and healthy commercial base. Then the rest is agricultural and vacant residential and other. So yes, majority of your tax goal for real property is improved residential.

Page four.

Out of those residential properties that we talked about, you have 60% are homestead exemptions, 40% are not. And so that is also an interesting pie chart to pay attention to as the proposed amendments come up and what those numbers would actually look like for y'all. That would be 60% of 60%. And of course, that's not the entire A tax base. It's just a portion of it. So I think the first year, if it does pass the first year would go up to $150,000 exemption. And then the next year would be a $250,000 exemption. Okay. So page five, we have the 2026 city of Perry taxable value by type. And real property totals, the total changes for this year was $28,385,358, which was an increase of 10%, a little over 10%. And tangible personal property, that change went down $24,267,640 for around negative 20.9%. And as most of you know, that's business equipment. And we have depreciation for business equipment. So each year, if we do not have investments, new equipment, that number will continue to go down.

So that makes a total change of positive $4,117,718 for a total percentage increase of 1.1%.

Page six, city of Cary taxable value trends from 2016 to present. That's pretty self-explanatory and pretty consistent with what we see throughout Florida, especially through the real estate boom from 2019 onward. Page seven is the value of new construction trends. I thought this was very interesting. And good for you all to see that for many years, it was very consistent around the same value. And then this year with the new apartments, it went to $20,687,135. So of course, that's not just the apartments. That's the total of new construction for the whole incorporated city. But the total is $20 million, and the majority of that is the apartments. Amy Dabbs, One more thing, Miss Carly kind of wanted me to walk you all through Amy Dabbs, The rollback rate and why that looks so different. And if we could stick with that screen, John, it's going to paint the picture more clearly. Amy Dabbs, So, of course, I'm not usually one to talk about military because that's not what I do. I do values, y'all do the miller's rates, but Carly kind of wanted me to just you know, talk about the process, the trim process and why that rollback rate is going to be so much higher this year than it usually is. Let me pull up my notes because I don't do this every day. So rollback rate is a number required by Florida's troop and millage law. And it gives the public a consistent point of comparison. In simple terms, it answers the question, what millage rate would produce approximately the same property tax revenue from the existing tax base as last year after removing this year's net new taxable value. So in other words, what would the millage rate be to give us what our values were last year without that huge increase of $20 million? Because they want to show the public what it would look like if that net new wasn't a part of it. If it was last year, what would that millage rate look like? And I'll kind of continue on. For the city of Perry, the total taxable value for operating purposes increased from $378 million last year to $382 million this year. However, this year's roll included that $80 million in net new taxable value. So the trim calculation removes that net new value for purposes of the rollback comparison. So that is why you're looking at a rollback rate of 6.1077 bills this year. when last year's adopted rate was 5.8336 moves. The important point is that a higher rollback rate does not by itself mean the city is raising taxes, and it does not mean anyone's rate has already been set. It reflects the statutory comparison required when a large share of this year's increase in the tax roll comes from a new value that is excluded from the rollback calculation. Did everybody grasp that? I'm not sure. Yeah. So, Carly, most importantly, Carly, did you grasp that? Yeah. Okay. Because Carly can sit down and really break down what that means. But the reason that she really kind of wanted me to hone in on it was because we haven't really seen an increase like that, a new construction increase like that in a long time. So that's why that millage rate would have looked differently and why y'all have to you know, vote on that accordingly. So any other questions?

Did you touch on what happened?

I did not, but I'm glad that you asked because we did produce these numbers for the legislature right when they started talking about this. And if y'all... let's see, if it did pass, the city of Perry, just the first year, 2027 is the first year that it would go through, is $150,000 exemption for all your homesteaders in the city. And the difference of revenue would be around $474,000 each year. And then the proposal, of course, it is proposed to go the next year to $250,000. And that would look closer to $556,000. So of course, huge help for homeowners. And I did look into the fiscally constrained counties. So for counties that are fiscally constrained, like Taylor County, They put in the, I believe they put in this proposal to cover fiscally constrained counties that have that revenue loss based off of an amendment. So we already have that. So right now, based off of the 2008 amendment, any loss that we had from those exemptions, the state covers us, the county, 95%. So they included that language in this proposal. I'm almost positive they included that language.

I thought they took it out of the query.

Did they take it out of the query? I thought they took it out of the query. OK. I'm just going to double check on it. But the last time I checked, I really thought that they did.

Last day. Last day.

OK. So that one suits me. Any other? No. Anyway, what I was going to say was it's not included in the city. Even though you're inside of fiscally constrained county, that money does not come to the city. So just thoughts. But yes, those would be the numbers if it did pass. And yes, any other questions? Thank you. Just give me a call. Our office is always here to help if you ever have any questions. Thank you.

You're doing great. They are. They're going to get in there to get in. Some of these.

Thank you. Yeah, let's see. So there's somebody here for these.

I understand all the things you talked about last time and

I don't want to take away anything from Jardines or any of the other nonprofits. I understand that nonprofits aren't covered. Just wanted to thank you for considering our request for the last several months. And there's not much else to say. Perry Women's Club on Jefferson, we took a hit in the hurricane. It looks bad, but we're working on it. The club owns the building. The city owns the land. We take care of all the maintenance. Our funds are tight. But I know it's all funds are tight. But we just wanted to thank Mr. Hart and all of you for at least considering all of this. Thanks. Right, it was my last meeting. People were waiting for Mr. Hart to come back. Oh, wait a minute.

Well, I'm sorry.

But you were talking about

It's not, there's been no decision. They tabled it for today. Okay.

I was asked. I hope you wrote this.

Sure. At the last city council meeting, I was directed to research the the CRA grant that provides the funds for the Dream Grant to see if there was any disqualification or prohibition for civic or nonprofit organizations to receive funding through this grant. I looked at it especially through CRA funding period, primarily because the CRA funds are accumulated through property taxes or also taxes that are going towards property incentives. non-profits and civic organizations mostly did not have to pay those taxes. You know, I was vested with that opportunity to research. What I found is that the Florida law does not disqualify a civic or non-profit organization merely because of its taxes status and does not itself, or the fact that it does not itself contribute Avalerm taxes to the CRA trust fund. However, under the dream grant, And we did adopt, we being the city of Perry, did adopt the dream grant guidelines as purported by the state without any changes. Presently, under that dream grant, the Perry Women's Club eligibility depends primarily on whether its property qualifies as being used for commercial, mixed use, or active ground floor commercial purposes. In other words, the tax exemption status is not a legal standard. for who gets these particular grants. The current program's commercial use restriction is. I know there was discussion as well as I believe in two meetings, discussion of the Perry's Women Club being a rental property for events. I think one of the descriptions was reunions. I think pretty much they gave a list mostly of the space being used to host events that can be done private rented by private individuals and organizations. So my recommendation regarding conclusion that the Women's Club is not disqualified. They can be reviewed, although still be up to the city council just because of their nonprofit status. It really is looking at what the particular contribution would be regarding commercial or mixed use facilities for the public good. I wanted to note that if the property operates as an active rental event or mixed civic commercial facility, it may be reasonably, it reasonably qualifies under the existing guidelines. And so that was sort of like the big question. And one of the things that I did note in all that long stuff I sent you all was that Although the particular grant we adopted or the plan, the CRA plan that we adopted was directly from the state, we did as a local matter, create the application. And I just want to note that one of my suggested remedies, regardless of what you may decide as to this present application, just in general, I would suggest that the council take the opportunity since this has been brought forth to clarify whether or not as a local governing body, if you all want to prohibit civic or nonprofits. That is very different because the grant does provide that the local body, the CRA board, which is city council, could change guidance as long as the change is amended for the overall public good. It doesn't go against what the state prohibits. Like if they prohibit something, you can't then say, oh no, this is for religious organizations only. But you can create a definition as to what serves in the capacity of mixed-use commercial uses. But I just want to note on our application locally, it does say business lane, and it's followed by if applicable. So that may suggest that a business is not always required. But I think most notably, under the application which is not in the law regarding the grant, the applicant may select commercial as a use, mixed use, or other. And then it gives a line to describe it, which may suggest that, well, it does suggest that you don't have to have commercial or mixed use based on our local application. But I just wanted to note that it that even though that can suggest that generally we don't override the substantive eligibility restriction contained in the grant. So I just wanted to note that there's other clarity that can go into the application. But as counsel, there doesn't have to be an ordinance. But if you all wanted to take the other off, for instance, so there's no confusion about the type of uses that the applicant would have to apply, that may be one way to help with that. And so it's really up to you all to determine if you feel like this property, this applicant or any other applicant, nonprofit or not, if it does classify as a property that has commercial or mixed use. And again, I suggest that you clarify, at least in the application or by your vote, if you want to amend your guidelines to prohibit nonprofits or allow nonprofits. Here's an example of the suggested language. Maybe eligible participants include owners or authorized tenants of qualifying commercial, mixed-use, civic, cultural, charitable, or nonprofit properties located within the Perry Community Redevelopment Area. So again, the defining jurisdiction is the CRA area. And to make it clear that, um, properties exempt from Avalon tax taxation shall not by itself, render the property ineligible. Um, so it's like language like that, that may assist in people understanding what the city council intent would be, but you can't decide if you want to revise that, or at least at the very, um, at the very middle clarified. if there is some type of change you want based on the nonprofit aspect of the business. And my last point, which I almost say with trepidation because I'm not trying to create another issue, but not making it based on the women's club application alone, the question that may just be on another agenda in the future is what if a charitable civic nonprofit applies and has no commercial or mixed use. They don't rent out, you know, because right now as a grant reads, there is no guideline regarding that. I'm not saying we need one. The grant doesn't provide one, but I know at the minimum, the discussion to city councilmen, city council meetings ago was whether or not a nonprofit could participate. And then it was whether or not the last week whether the guidelines for the grant prohibited it. So the answer to that is yes, a nonprofit can, based on the grant, guidelines can participate. And yes, a nonprofit could apply if, like any other applicant, there's a commercial or a mixed use.

Who makes the final decision on this?

Well, as the city council, you make the final decision as the CRA board who receives any of the money they apply for. That's your decision. And what I was asked to do was clarify, is there anything from the law preventing you from granting it to a nonprofit? So I'm saying the law says, no, there's nothing preventing, but it's your decision.

Well, when that decision was made that we were not going to support nonprofits, My understanding of it was that we were not going to take our funds that we really didn't have at the time and try to help out the nonprofits. To me, these are not our funds. They're coming from somewhere else and something. And if somebody has applied for them, then I think we can decide out of all the applications, who gets it. But I don't have any problem with it if I said, Even though we have that ordinance, I don't feel like it pertains to money that we're getting from outside.

Does that make sense? It's coming from a particular geographic area and the use in that particular geographic area.

Well, that plus, is it a state grant?

No. It is. Go ahead. It's coming from 32 years ago now. They stopped the taxes for the downtown area. Anybody in that downtown area, your taxes froze. Everything that goes up above that, as your values went up, goes into the CRA. City taxes and county taxes. So it is, the people in the CRA are the ones contributing to the CRA.

Okay.

And I've been approving them as a, if they meet the eligibility of our criteria that we laid out, I've been approving them. This one was kind of on the fence to me. And they asked for a second opinion. Y'all are the CRA board, so I said I'd bring it to y'all. We've already approved six or seven of it, but this one was just a little bit.

Nobody else has applied for it this year.

Yeah, we've approved six or seven of them.

Forget all this profit and non-profit.

OK.

The city owns that building. And we are charged with maintaining the building equipment for every city.

Yeah. I thought we only owned the land. We only owned the land. They owned the building. We owned the building.

You owned the land. We owned the building. Right.

But it is, in my opinion, it is an effort to protect our property. Even though it's taking care of the building, it's still an asset and it's a move in the right direction to protect our property.

Is that legal?

It's definitely legal.

There's nothing prohibiting it.

My only thing is, nothing against the women's club. I have a problem with that we're just going and looking for grants just for uptown. It's not fair to the other nonprofit, or however you want to put it, that they don't never get anything back from us. You see what I'm saying? That's very unfair to other nonprofits. It's like we keep giving and giving of time, but we're not trying to do anything in other districts. So that is where my problem comes in.

But is it earmarked for downtown?

I've asked John multiple and multiple times. I know if we got one grant going, we can't have another one going over here. But I've asked him multiple times and other city managers to look for something in other areas that we can get. Because everybody's having hard times. It's just not one area. Right.

I know there are merchants outside of the city. The downtown city limits, they're still in the city, but they're not in the court. And they were never included, and they were not active out there.

I believe you can have multiple CRAs within the city. I think I was told to be clear. I think you can answer that.

You told me you could, and the previous one told me that you could. You don't remember me and you had that conversation?

It's a whole lot of work, and you don't make the money for the first time. 10 years is that increase that goes into the CRA itself.

And I understand that time, but it's the fairness.

Now, as it relates to the CRA district, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I heard you, but I didn't know. I apologize. Really quickly, regarding just this particular pot of money from the CRA trust that is being funneled through the state, I understand that what does make a difference is it is in the district, it's downtown, all the things you all noted. Council Member Landry, in my looking back at what was stated or said, because I actually haven't seen that it says that the city can't support nonprofits. I think the discussion was to not donate money to nonprofits. What probably it keeps butting up against that there are certain institutions There's certain organizations that institutionally have had support. For instance, the Women's Club, they've had a lease for 100 years plus. So there is, in fact, arguably an in-kind donation of sorts, but it's been ratified through the way the land was allowed. You see the same thing with Boys and Girls Club. So those who have been here longer, with longer institutional support, are receiving Some could argue in-kind donated support. But if you have not had that support, then what I understand is that whenever that discussion was made that at this time we don't have the budget, we're not supporting nonprofits or charitable, we're not doing charitable giving. I think the words were we're not a charity. So donations, those newer organizations that don't have the institutional support did not enter a lease in with the city to have something for a dollar for a hundred years. They look at these types of movements, even though it's not being funded by the city. They look like, well, how, we can't go back in time and get this support. So, you know, but I don't know that this answers that, but it may be something based on what the council may desire that we should look into whether or not, as Council Member Landry, go back to that question of what's the intent. It was never meant to just... I guess, from what I'm hearing, to just eliminate any support potential to nonprofits. But that's how it's come off in the last few years. And that may be, again, it won't answer the CRA thing because the CRA is not going to change this in downtown. But maybe there needs to be, even if we have no money, in the future, if we come on a windfall, that we have other nonprofits and civic organizations who may believe that they could come to the council with a request that if it serves the public interest and we have the money and all of the great things that maybe doesn't become like a prohibition, I can't go up there because they don't do that. And that may be sort of, again, not answered by this application to CR, but maybe something in the future if the council will decline that we may need to look at. But I know it's hard to budget when there's no money. So these grants do provide money and everyone is welcome to give Get us some grants for the city so that we can answer those questions.

The city meant when it said that we would not support non-profit

It wasn't because we didn't have funds. It was because an organization came before us for funds, and that was Jerkins. We gave Jerkins $5,000. And from then on, it was, we would not do this for anyone. That was the reason for that policy. Now, we do need to go back and reassess that because I think it's kind of, it doesn't look like it's going to turn out what we had. But anyway, that's all I wanted to say. We didn't understand it. You're welcome. Now, do we need to vote? I have a word for you.

Sorry, can you come forward, please? Yes, I can.

I'm Regina Edwards again. I have a question. I kind of understand. You can come to the podium.

It's on the recording. They can't hear you.

Hi, I'm Regina Edwards, and I'm 212 Penn Drive. I have a question. I understand that in this, it was for downtown, and it was meant for downtown to keep it up, right? I get that. And you're saying that you intentionally said what you said And now you see that it needs to be reconsidered. That's not what you're saying. I understand that, but just stay with it. I didn't say it. That's why I said in the beginning, I understand that this funding is for the downtown. Let me re-say that again. I understand that this grant is for the downtown funding and some key. Okay, now that I said that, that's not separate from that. Okay. What I'm saying is, you just made the statement, and what happened? That you are not a charity, and you don't want to give to nonprofits, but now it needs to be re-looked at again. Can you do it? And do it without discrimination. And can you then make up a grouping, a council, to find the means to do it? And so it doesn't, like you said, look bad against the city. It becomes an initiative to make a move instead of just consider it and bring it before a council meeting. There needs to be some action behind it. I'd like to see that. And I'd like to see it soon.

Would you like to see your utilities double?

I don't think it takes. Let me say this. I want to see The money that Florida Power is putting in, and then I'll discuss that with you. Can you tell me the money that Florida Power is putting in? Florida Power. Oh. We make Duke Energy. Duke Energy. Thank you. Show me money that Duke Energy is putting into non-profits, and we'll talk about that.

What's going on with us?

He brought it to me. I didn't bring it to you. What's that got to do with what we do?

I agree with you. If I can interrupt, we're here to talk about the drain grant for the women. We would have done this for another night if it wasn't for you.

All I'm saying is, it doesn't have to be a long conversation. What I'm saying is, I'm putting it since it was brought up. I'm putting it before you. Sure. Saying that, hey, I live here. You see the problem. You see that there are problems going on. This grant is proving that there's a problem. That's the point. That this is the foundation of proving that there's a problem. That's why I brought it up. Because as she just stated, if there was greater clarification, even on this grant, there wouldn't be so many issues. Okay? So that's why I brought it up. And so that's what I'm asking. Since you see the complications with that, and you see the issue then helping with the issues, will solve the issues that's dealing with this grant that won't have a future issue. It will be solved. Instead of just edging, solve. I'm asking my partner.

Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. I think if there had been just another sentence, yes, that may have said, if funds are allowed, Yes. Yes, you do understand what I'm saying.

That there's a foundation for my point. My point doesn't come out of right or left field. That there's a reason for my comment. And it's because of the glance and the conversation that we're having. I'm not saying we sit here and converse about it for five, 15 minutes. I'm saying listen to me. Take it aside. You're discussing on your personal individual time. and come up with a solution. And then you bring it back. And I'm more than willing to get up and talk about it anytime.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Any more discussion about the dream grant?

Anyone? Council? Now there's animation.

Motion to follow the guidelines. I will second it because of the verifications that we received.

That's a motion to follow the guidelines and not donate to the non-profit.

The guidelines does not prohibit a nonprofit. So you still have to decide if the person or applicant can get it, but there's no prohibition against nonprofits applying as long as there's a commercial or mixed use. Which is what, following the guidelines, I just wanted to make.

Is that what you meant by that? Is that what you meant by that? Is that what you meant by that?

Is that what you meant by that?

Is that what you meant by that?

Is that what you meant by that? Is that what you meant by that?

Council do discuss modular homes and the city limits, and Council will take any action being necessary.

I requested this because I'm the agenda. Council, there are homes that appear to be mobile homes. Those have the funds. There are a lot of questions. Why are we not approved? And I just need to know what must be a three minute stadium.

My course and 34 degrees South Byron Parkway. And is not what we're doing, that we're putting modular homes, which if you read your LDRs and your actual land codes, it specifically states that modular or site-grilled homes be placed on these properties. Also, if you look at the paperwork that you've been presented with, you'll see the full set of blueprints that comes through these homes in the back. You'll see your DBPR stickers in the very, it'll be the last page, These are 150-mile-an-hour certified houses. They're modular homes. Yeah, they're 150-mile-an-hour certified stamp blueprints built. They're built in Florida building code.

Florida makes them different from manufacturers. Yes, they're built with Florida building code. Right, manufacturers, all right.

Manufactured homes are built to HUD code. So you get either a wind zone one, two, or three. Wind zone one homes are not allowed in the state of Florida. Wind zone two homes are built to 100 mile an hour wind code, which is what Taylor County allows for a manufactured home. Wind zone three homes are built to 110 mile per hour. Wind zone three, no category. So in manufactured housing, you have a wind zone two or a wind zone three. Just like some- I'm clarifying, wind zone. Just what does that, that's a data plate that's stamped on the inside of a manufactured home that says wind zone two for a wind zone three. There's a sheet in there that's going to give you that data as well. Yep, right here, it's got state of Florida on it. Wind zone two is what is standard in Taylor County. That's what you guys approve for countywide. The areas inside your city limits that do allow the manufactured housing, They only require a solid two hall. How old is this map? That is the current map.

What areas inside the city do allow that?

So Tango Heights subdivision over that area, if you're in, there's a lot of your area inside your city limits that still allows manufactured housing.

Residential single family slash mobile home.

I know there's one of our towns that's been there for years.

So, I mean, I actually, I'm currently under construction right now. I've got probably, I think, seven properties right now that we're doing inside the city limits. We're developing the 55 acres on 221 North. I wondered what was going in there. Yeah, so we've got 55 acres right there that we're developing that's inside your city limits as well. That one's being cleared right now? Yeah, that's the one that's being cleared right now. that we're intending to put probably upwards of, I don't know, there should be 75, 80 home sites once we get all of the development and civil work done. And where is this? 221 North on the left side across from Dollar General. It's actually either or. So half of the subdivision falls in manufactured, half falls in module.

One question that As far as for me to understand, and it's the reason you're here today, everywhere I believe is that it had to be put on permanent foundation. Explain to me what that means.

Okay, so that is lingo that people automatically assume is what it is. What it has to be done is it has to be put on an engineered foundation. It goes through an engineer, which you've also had a copy of in your file actually this would box looking at it on your right hand side right hand side of your paper. On the right, but you covered it up right yeah yeah see that's got a stamp on it from a Florida licensed engineering design that foundation. That you nor I nor anybody else in the state can override, I have to build that foundation for what he says it has to be. So. Once an engineer or architect, one of those guys comes and says, this is how we're going to fasten this home to the ground, that's what I have to do. So it can look different. A manufactured modular unit has specific ways that plumbing hooks up, electrical hooks up, HVAC units hook up. But if you set them flat on a, the way they're building them nowadays, if you set them flat on a slab, you can't hook up, AC duct work underneath it. You can't run your plumbing pipes out from underneath it. You know, they're building a factory controlled environment that sometimes you just can't put them on flat outside. Is that the way it used to be? Back a long time ago when mods first started coming out, this was developed for areas, modular construction was initially developed for areas that only have three or four months of availability to build outside. way up in the very cold climates where they wouldn't build homes for three or four months a year. So as modular construction got popular right there, it kind of trickled down to everybody else. So here we build them in a way now that it's just not conducive to put them on flat slabs.

So you're doing a cord here instead, I think?

No, it's dry stack. It's called dry stack column. What the engineer stamps and seals and sends to me. I get an email with a set of plans that says build this foundation. I send that to the build department. The build department approves them with the plans, and that's what we do.

So they set up concrete blocks just like they're moving around.

Just like a manufacturing home.

Fasten them to the ground. And then have them close it. They're just regular. It seems like they've come a long way from it. And I think I'm confused. Maybe I'm supposed to because I don't understand. Every module on this has been out for years.

So for years, I don't recall them ever being up on the blocks.

And again, I couldn't be wrong.

Isn't it just a little bit poor? Well, I went through this right after Hurricane Michael hit Fort St. Joe. We had a customer that came and bought a home from us that the city council said, no, you can't do that house. We don't accept these modular homes in our city. He actually hired an attorney and a modular home is a modular home. It doesn't matter what I think a modular home, the code doesn't say what does Mr. Morrison's vision of the modular home's aesthetic values and the beauty of it or what it sits on and how it's fastened to the ground or any of that look like is. Plus, cycle homes are available to be put on Disney's property. The code reads modular homes or cycle homes. 150C modular or cycle.

What's the difference between a modular and a cycle?

One's built in a factory and brought to the property, completed, and then put together minutely, you know, certain things. What's that? They follow two completely different building codes. So if I do a manufactured home, it follows HUD code. HUD is the federally recognized building code You have 20 states that don't have state building codes. They follow HUD code. HUD came up with a building code because places like Montana, places like Wyoming, these people that don't have the population that demand a particular state organized building code, the federal government says, okay, this is going to be the federally recognized minimum code. You as the state of Florida, if you want, you can go above and beyond this, but you have to minimally build to HUD. When you do Section 8 housing, when you do stuff that doesn't have to follow local Florida code, we do that on a budget, right? We build much less expensive housing, but we can follow HUD code instead of Florida building code.

That's when you see the SHIP program? Correct.

Well, not necessarily, because SHIP program a lot of times, most of the time you're going to follow the Florida Building Code. Okay. But there's other types of housing that you can develop and build through HUD code. Okay. You're telling me what? January. In January, I mean, in January, I hope you got that bill in here anyway. It specifically says that you guys need to address your planning and zoning departments before January 1st, before your home and landowners and their attorneys do it for you. And that's in the bill that came. It says that the state representatives put out, it says, our recommendation to local municipalities is that you address, the verbiage says, you need to address your local planning and zoning departments before your land owners and their attorneys do it for you.

You got that?

Because as of on March the 27th, 2025, the state of Florida passed a law that says Any piece of property that allows a single family residence. Let me say that again. Any piece of property that allows a front door that has a single family residence that my family or his family or any of these people's family can open up and walk in and live in, you must also allow a manufactured or a modular home there. House Bill 399. It's in your package. And it's signed into law. It is signed into law. It's in your packet. It passed on March 27th. It goes into effect January 1st this coming year. If they want to go, it don't matter. It don't matter. I've got one of my best friends. So it says you must be in compliance by January 2027, right? So many of your municipalities and counties have adopted this already. Columbia County has already adopted this. I've got a very good friend of mine that lives there in a very, very wealthy neighborhood. He just listed his house for sale for $770,000 because two lots down, they just put him over home. A mobile home, not a modular home, a mobile home.

Either way, they got to let whatever you want to put them.

And it says in there specifically, you can come up with, neighborhoods can come up with aesthetic things that you can require, hardy blank, you can require architectural shingles, you can require different things. But specifically in the bill, it says it must not restrict manufactured housing. Can HOA restrict it? HOA cannot restrict, HOA can't override state law. You can't override state law through an HOA.

This is the reason we asked you to do this, Scott.

And HOA cannot override state law.

But the zoning laws can require things.

That's what we're changing.

No, no, I'm saying. I didn't finish my statement. They cannot particularly require it for module or mobile and not require it for site-built homes. So it could potentially be more taxing if you create aesthetic plans where their site-built homes will now have to comply. So it's not that there cannot be, but they cannot be, you know, singled out and said, well, they have to look like this, unless that whole community is like, everyone has to look whatever. Whatever aesthetic situation, they have to apply to everyone. And it's not anywhere, just anywhere there's a single family.

Right.

So now you can just put it up in a commercial building or something like that.

So they can't, they cannot. Okay.

Single family.

Single family.

But I mean, if you, if you look at, I mean, just if you look at Taylor County as a whole, I mean, we still have zoning laws. It just took me over a year to get a permit. And I know this is not in the city limits, but it just took me a year to get a permit for a gentleman because he has, 161 feet of road frontage instead of 180. Make that make sense. I only own 161 feet on this road. And because of that, I can't have a house on my property because I don't have 180 because this mixed use, rural residential, blah, blah, blah, LDR in this area. you are required to have 180 feet of road frontage to get a permit to put a house here. Now, we have some stuff in Taylor County that... Guys, Popeye's Chicken just shut down. CVS is shut down. The mill's shut down. I'm literally... I mean, I'm spending a lot, a lot, a lot of money in this town. I've got... Almost a million dollar project going on right now putting in a subdivision. I bought the property. I spent all the money to clear it. I've got a grubber in there right now doing all the clearing, doing all this stuff to get this done. I put out the spec house on Bacon Street that's up in the air right now that I was told last week I need to plan to remove it. I've got one on Sarah Street that we're doing. I just did one here on Ash Street. I did one on Green Street that's a spec house. I bought a subdivision in Steenhatchee to put seven houses down there. I'm doing what I can to help stimulate the economy. And it's like, hey, pump the brakes. Pump the brakes. What are we going to do? You need to move this house.

The problem is because we don't know.

We didn't know anything about it. Well, I can't speak to you. The zoning. Was any of this done in front of the zoning board? Because see, the zoning board didn't even know anything about this. When I called one of the individuals and asked them about it. Because usually when we're doing things like this, it's the zoning board presents it to us and we go from there.

But what is their particular... With the land. But the land was zoned for modular or... Now it is. At first it was not. It's obvious then. When I looked it up, when I bought it, it was zoned for modular or site building. I actually, I didn't, because I'm not going to buy it if I can't put a model. I don't do site go, which I'm a licensed contractor to do either or.

This was sent in back in, what was it, March of last year?

What?

399. What was this? What was it?

Yeah, I'm from under your name, Zoe. That's on an allowed modular home way before. Yeah, that property's been zoned for modular home brand. Yeah, that's already said once. It's on Bacon Street.

When we have turned away so many people, families.

For mobile homes.

Hers was a modular home. And then we had this big thing where one guy put out an implantation and they wanted that guy to remove his. He ended up having to get a lawyer in order for him to save it.

Then guys, listen, I mean, honestly, this is very easy. You guys are the city council. It's you guys' ordinance. I know it. If the property is zoned for a modular home, there's nothing to argue about.

I think that Do you know how many people come into my office and

trying to put houses in the city limits? Do you know, I mean, I've got one sitting here right now that would put a house in the city limits today and add to the tax base that we're fixing to be losing through the raising of the, you know, of the homestead exemption. But they can't because the property doesn't allow for mobile homes and he can't afford the additional cost that it costs to put a modular.

But that is a city ordinance that you're talking about.

That's a city ordinance that requires us to have Modular on a specific property. If the state has come in with. That's something, you know, I don't know the difference. I don't know if that's going to be something that has to be.

But you just said that they came in with a law that said. A law, that's what the law says. Allow to foot either or.

Either or.

No. It becomes an effective January 1st, 2027. Yeah, I know it's not those ones, but it still certainly is what we got.

Well, I think there's going to need to be, you know, you got to research that a little more and make sure that it may, there may be areas that do still require much.

I can speak to that. The Florida League of Cities, as well as the Florida Municipal Attorneys Association, both lobbied against this bill because it takes a huge, well, arguably it takes away home rule. So, I mean, and because of those conflicts, or the idea of after hurricanes, especially demolish the community, housing becomes even more problematic and hard. So the state has done this purposely to take it out of the hands of the zoning, but we will need to comply and amend and be consistent unless some lawsuits win by January 1st. But, you know, I mean, that's what's happening in all the communities that this will be touching. They're going to have to comply. And I guess what you were sharing, cities have already started moving towards changing it and not waiting until the state law takes effect January 1st.

Just throw the word in there. I'll see what it is.

Anyway, John, can you get to that North Central Florida region? I'm planning on getting people to come up here and meet with us.

I'll reach out to them, Laurie.

Maybe come up here.

Don't answer emails for a week or two, normally.

Can you get them to come up here and sit with us? Yes. Okay, that's fine. We're going to have a joint meeting. We'll just get a date on what's going on. Start moving in the direction we need to move. Since the only thing, we're in the dark. We're not knowing anything.

We're going to update all the rules for us.

I mean, and I agree with that. I feel like there should have been a lot more clarification sent out on this house bill because they basically passed it and then that was it.

And I understand what it is that you're doing and I know you got a business and you got to do what you have to do to survive. But our only problem came is that we get a house that's put over in the community and then we got people calling us and that, you know, what's going on? Why is this here? And we don't know anything about it. They showed up at my office. Trust me. Because it's steps that we, I've been here since 2013 that we've always followed. They go to the zoning board, it gets presented to us and we go there.

But

I guess now that has changed and we just didn't really think about it.

So on the MH-1 zoning, on MH-1 zoning, modular or site build is a fruitful in any of those areas. And it will look, they can look identical to a mobile home and they just have the stickers that I put pictures in there for you guys, approved by the DDPR, built to Florida building code instead of hood. That's your difference.

John, that land that Mom just left home and sitting on now, was that the city property or was that in our little grant? The land that we have deeded out? Or did you personally buy the land from someone else?

I bought the land. I bought the land from somebody else. I bought one behind and I bought two lots over. There's fixing to be two more over there.

No, it's not that. It's just that...

Did you go to the zoning board? I know.

All I did, I did it just like any other house. I turned in the permits. I bought the property. I bought the house. I turned in for permitting. Permitting gave me a permit. I put a house up.

You didn't have to go for a zoning board?

It was something for that. It was zoning.

This is a change. This is not as if the zoning board has not been following the law. This is a new act that will come in. See, y'all don't understand.

I'm going to go ahead and put it out there. It's not you, John. It's the years of me being in your seat and underhand things have been being done. You see what I'm saying? That is where the problem is coming in at. You got one group that we're being told, got to cut it. Y'all got to shut up. Y'all got to go to the zone report. And you have another group, we can just do what we want to do. We can just go on and put whatever we want to put anywhere. You see what I'm saying? We are up here for the people. We're not up here for ourselves. So we have to speak and say what these people are saying is wrong. We have people that are calling us that modular homes, trailer, however you want to put it, you're putting them right in their backyard and they're pissed off and they're mad about it because no one is telling them anything. And when someone called me, I hate to be in the dark and not know what is going on. Nothing has been put in the packet. We didn't know anything. until today.

My only clarification, and maybe it's not necessary, is that, and now that you've noted what you shared, is that if someone has been denied placing that modular home in a zone because it's not zone four, that's been a correct action. The state has said, we're not going to leave it up to you guys to decide. Maybe because of that uneven treatment, And starting January 1st, unless you guys change the audience this month or next month, they'll no longer, it will not any longer be up to the zoning board to say where those modular homes are. And I just want to also note, as you noted, it's not just any modular home. It has to still pass the wind zone two or three. It's not, and one of the things that we're probably going to need to do is help educate people because you hear this and you think, I just put a mobile home up. It's not, that simple. It has to follow the same standards as onsite building houses.

Right.

Or just, I mean, it's not, you know, I mean, you hear module homes or mobile homes and manufactured homes, but some people that may go, okay, so we can put it here, but it still has really pretty high standards regarding what type of homes are considered to be compliant with the statute.

go ahead i'm not sure john and maybe michael you can correct me if i'm wrong i think the difference here that we're missing is that people have wanted to put mobile homes in these sold areas that only allow monitoring and there is and that's what he's trying to say is there's a difference in big difference in cost and in structure how they're built I think what your people are complaining about is they weren't being able to allow to put a mobile home there. He has purchased it and got permit to put a modular home.

But it's a mobile home.

It looks like a mobile home.

No, it's a mobile home because it's not on permanent foundation. No, it's sitting on cinder blocks. Yes. My name is Andre Green, 129 South Beverly Street, and Bonita is my council member. So the land that's in question at Momo 98, the structure that was put there, that is a mobile home. There is a difference between a mobile home and a manufacturer home. A modular home is built inside of a warehouse, and when they put it on the foundation, they bring it out, it sleeps, and it's permanent, it's sitting there. Mobile home that is on 98 or manufacturer because there is a difference between the terms. That is a mobile home because it sits on cinder blocks and it's not a permanent foundation and it's on a chassis. So that's the difference between the two. Modular, permanent, and also mobile homes depreciate over time. Modular homes appreciate. Mobile homes are made based on the code of HUD and modular homes are seen as a house. So that is the difference. The house on 98, the same question that was thrown up, is a mobile home. It is not a module home. And that's all you have to see.

And if you'll look in your packet, you will see the certification for the house on 98 from the pictures that it is a certified modular home. Right there. There is your certifications for that house. It's all in the package. It is a, there's actually a paper that you can have two different type of modular homes. You can have a on or off frame.

On or off what?

On or off frame.

Frame. What's the difference?

One has a chassis still remaining under it. One you actually remove the chassis from. Depends on the installation. You have a brochure in there about that as well.

Very similar, I think, when you move a house. Correct.

Any house that you have. If anybody, any person that's older in this room can remember, at one point, Highway 90 went through an expansion, and all the houses that were on, I mean, big, giant, three-story houses, they put frames, they put steel rails on them, lifted those up, and they moved them back 60, 80 feet, and they made Highway 90 go on east and west, a six-lane highway, but from a two-lane. You can move any house. Having a chassis under it or not, or the foundation is engineered by an engineer. It's built exactly what the engineer said to build it to.

I understand you want to speak. I'm sorry.

I understand that you're 1218 North Parking Street. I think the biggest concern for a lot of people as well is there's a oil development that is happening in front of the Dollar General, and many people in the community were questioning, what are they building over there? You know, because we have so many unused buildings, unfortunately. I'm quite sure many people in that community was not aware that mobile homes are gonna be placed next to their homes on that land. Because we thought it was, I've always assumed it was commercial use, just me personally, but it was commercial use, I don't know what it's going for. But when you start changing I'm not saying look, because once again, my mom has a mobile home. My sister has a mobile home. That's not a concern here. But when you start to overdevelop with it, that's going to be where the community, I think now, will be, you all need to start making decisions now with regards to, I'm not saying aesthetics, but the understanding that I've researched, modular versus mobile, they are different. One is based on chases, so it can actually be moved. Marginal homes have to be built on foundation. That is a major difference. Even in that house build, it's still a major difference when you actually research. And it tells you, you know, you can't base a home, you know, aesthetics. That's not it. There has to be other guidelines. I'm just saying, as a board, you all may want to really consider, because if an entire development is going in, no one has been aware, no one in the community And, you know, someone is having to pass by an entire, how many acres, there's many acres of land over there that's getting developed. And no one had a conversation about where are the site plans? Where are the road plans? What is the eaves and what is the dedicated to the city? Because all of that has to go in before you actually put a home in and you put a road in because all of that house, it plays a major role in the water mines drainage, sewage, all of that makes a difference as for homes that are already developed in that area. And for no one to have to come up and say what we're actually going to do with that land with so much land, I think that's a conversation that really needs to be brought before the board. And I think that, you know, plans need to be purchased or presented to say, okay, do we agree with this? And, you know, and at the city level to say who is the person in the director's place to approve those site plans before someone actually goes in and just started developing those plans in that manner. And that's just my thoughts on that. Partially. Yeah, it looks like they're where the Dollar General is. They didn't come before us. Well, I just told them myself. I'm a planning board member, but it wasn't like the new homes they're building behind the Chevrolet place. they had an entire site plan. There is no site plan for the new homes. That concerns me. I haven't seen anything.

We haven't seen anything.

But his goal was to actually put the homes there, but it hasn't been brought. You know, I would have, as a city member, you know, someone would bring that, you know, thank you for your hard work, but the realization is You don't clear land unless you have a proposal and you, unless you have been approved to actually put a home there before you start clearing land and saying, I'm going to put homes here. And I have not had a conversation with the city, waterworks, road department, got a site plan that I can actually present. You know, I don't know any other city or community that you can go in and just put homes and not have a conversation of, you know, how much road is going to be giving to the city right away and how far back these homes have to be. I'm just saying, in real construction, that is what happens. We have not seen any plans. And this is the first I'm hearing that mobile homes or modular homes or manufactured homes are actually going to be built. And I've never seen where someone could just take land without actually coming and saying, are these actual plans approved? So that's my concern. You know, and I would think that that would be a conversation that, you know, before it's done, you have residents in that area who's been there for a very long time. They would probably want to know, but many of them aren't even aware of what's happening in that area.

That's true. I was glad to hear tonight what was going on because I'm concerned.

Yes, I think that's a, you know. There's no permits at all in here?

Well, first thing, there's a process to every project. First thing I did was look and see what the property's zoned for, and if you look at your zoning on that property before I bought it, I think it's one house per half acre on part of it. I think it might have been one house per quarter acre. Anyway, so the zoning on that property allows for a lot of houses. The first step is to buy the property. Second step, which requires my permit, right? I don't have to have a permit to buy it. I don't have to have a permit to clear it. And now we're drilling it. All I'm doing is getting it down to the dirt so that I can get a civil engineer in there to design what we're going to do. Once I get plans, because coming to a board and saying anything and doing anything, I need to figure out what we can do with the property before I can present it to anybody. Once I get that step done, that's when we present what we're going to do for them. So until I get plans for anything, we're just sitting here talking about subdivisions. It's theoretical at this point. Your subdivision? Yes. You have the whole process. I have to go through a whole entire process that has nothing to do with talking to neighbors or anybody. There's no sense in talking to anybody at this point until I have a plan. on paper with a civil engineer that's got retention bonds drawn, roads drawn in, how we're going to pay, what we're going to do. I'm going to look at the county subdivision.

Is it Seminole? Yes.

All right. So I think that answers everybody's question about what's going on.

Yes, .

Come on forward, please. We're trying to record this for the next location. People that are watching us, thank you.

Regina Edwards. And I have that one question to you. Why clear the land first, Dave?

Why?

Why not have a plan first?

Because I'd like to have the land cleared so we can just have it cleared.

But again, if you have a plan, you know what you're doing when you're clearing it to do go forward, right?

Just the way I do. I always clear plans.

Okay. But in a smaller city like there, wouldn't it be more convenient or more communal for the community to say, hey, I'm here. These are my plans. I haven't made any complete plans yet, but this is what I would like to do, and I'm just introducing myself.

I'm in period every day.

No, no, no. I mean to the stone committee, the city council.

If you want to know the actual truth, I sat in this table right here with several of the people from the city and water and all these areas. That's how I knew there was already water down there. I actually came in here and asked those questions to see what was available, what was the zoning and things like that before I actually did that about a year ago.

Did you introduce yourself and your thoughts on what you might do? Yeah.

Yeah. He went to the building department, talked to them.

At the city council?

No, not the city council.

Right. At the city council and the zoning committee. She can do that bitch. It's my property. I understand that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I asked him first because I can't address y'all first. The reason I asked is because it was in my, and I don't know if you can make that a guideline, but before somebody started just cutting a whole lot of property, I mean, it's, I understand for a single home, but for development and it would be meaningful and it should be in the guideline that some type of code or something, regulation, that you have to come in and introduce yourself and your concerns and what your plans are. Even if you don't have paper, 20 sheets of paper, my intent, with my intent, that gives you the options of knowing what's going on here in the city and who's doing it. But when somebody just does something like this, You don't know. And you proved it. You don't know. That's true. I really don't. And if you put up a sign and say it's your home, of course, we're probably looking for something. And it should be in the guidelines that that should be. I didn't sit near word. It was kind of like I had somebody ask me, it's probably solo thoughts. You know, there's all this. And right now in Paris, that is just something, I don't mean any disrespect to either, you know, you or you, but that is my major concern. And it is very scary for people who live here. Very.

Thank you.

I don't think you've asked for both, sir. But as Brian's telling my family, it is sitting in a lot of work. Who's paying for the sewer, the lift stations, and road paving? Me. You are.

Me.

Okay. I don't even know how to say nothing for me. All right. That's what I want to know. I just want to make sure that the city taxpayers wouldn't put in a debt on an underground utility. I know construction, I'll give you a double question. And I know that you can't pass your problems on to somebody else's taxpayers. And that's what most of these people are wanting. You know, and it seems like you got your wagon heading to you. And, but... because nobody up here knows what's going on. And I hope your project works. I mean, I do. I'm not against that because they can bring tax revenue. I'm just wondering if it's going to cost the city tax dollars. The development board I know is not supposed to come to take anything. They got changed in the A's. I'm not saying. But yeah, but you know, Councilman Ford, you know, catch it, leisure retreats, you know, they're down there with trailers and what several hundred acres, they're hollering, pave the roads. Well, we're talking a million dollars a mile to pave the road. There's no way the county can pave roads. But I'm against what they were just doing. There was a neighborhood in the state, and there was a neighborhood that went in, kind of like leisure retreats, and they just pushed the trees down and started selling lots. And then they started saying, hey, pave the roads. That's not going to change. They said, you know, now anybody else is going to develop anything you're going to pay, you're paying it. That's going to, just go back on the price of the lots. It was going to happen, but at least it'll be done. Yeah. I mean, I'm not against this project. It brings tax revenue when it sells the houses. Sure. I just, I listen to people behind me and I'm just answering what you guys are wondering, you know? And so that's all I got to say. Yeah.

I can tell you, I mean, and just to clarify, this is not our first trade deal. We've got eight or nine of these subdivisions already done. There's four in Suwannee County. There's a 250 house development in Lake City. There's 200 house development under construction right now in Lake City. I'm not asking anybody to pay for anything. If you've got sewer in front of the property, we'll make a tap. And we'll take care of everything from there. We don't need anybody to run. I don't need, that's not what we need. So it's my property. It's our property. We're going to do with it what we're going to do. When the time comes to present it to everybody as to what the plan will be, everybody will be presented with plans. It's in the city and the county. So it's got to do two different things. And I've actually had conversation with the boards or the folks that met me in here that day. And they actually discussed either annex and everything into the city completely or out of the city completely. And there was a whole annex and discussion. So either or. That way it's all governed either all by the city or all by the county. And there was no split down. So they were going to figure out what would be best that way. So there has been discussion on this. Well, besides that.

Anybody have any other questions?

I think there was quite a lot. I just want to turn to everything that you did on the informing council. And we really need to put a cake on it, I'm sure. So put it up because I think it was very hard. But everyone needs to know what they can and can't do from this point on. This was mobile and modular homes.

I want to clarify something real quick. I'm here at modular homes. I'm here at mobile homes. I'm here at manufactured homes. That manufactured home cover.

Manufactured home. Manufactured and a mobile home are the same. They're both a manufacturer and a modular. So they're both manufactured. In a facility that's enclosed. And then they bring both of them too. But a mobile home and a modular home, they're both completely different. Where's the manufacturer? So that in the mobile home world, that's a A lucky word for a mobile home.

1976, they went from mobile home to manufacturing home.

A lot of people still call them trailers. If you go to places, they'll tell you, hey, we haul cows and horses and trailers. These are mobile homes. These are houses.

I just want to clarify something. It's a fancy word. I hear manufactured being tossed around, too. I was pretty sure we were talking about the same thing.

Manufactured housing, it can be a mobile home. It can be a model. They're both manufactured in a controlled environment.

Thank you. All right, before we go to the next agenda item, we'll call a five minute break.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And hopefully that will help us get to the point where we can get the vaccine.

But . . . . .

That's what I'm trying to do.

That's what I'm trying to do. That's what I'm trying to do. That's what I'm trying to do. That's what I'm trying to do. That's what I'm trying to do. The law . But at the same time, you're talking about this . The subject matter we're talking about .

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you.

I'm proud of you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. All right, we're going to go with meeting back to order.

I'm going to go to agenda item 6G. We have to discuss block cameras. We have to spend the action being necessary. Anybody know what happened here?

Anyway, here's what I'd say, Tom.

Don't get aversion.

Good evening. Thanks for having me, Slaughter. I'm a three-way Judson drive. I want to thank you guys all for the time tonight and allowing us to speak to you guys on the flight cameras. Got a few brief points that I want to bring up, talk about the plot cameras. I'll let you guys have the rest of the time. So Los Angeles is one of the first cities that comes to mind, one of the biggest cities in the United States. They have already terminated their agreement with plots, mainly because they thought that it was a civil liberties, civil rights and liberties issue, and the data that was being used was used against its civilians incorrectly. Another city that I want to talk about is Dayton, Ohio. They canceled their... plot contract, but once they did that, the flock cameras are still in place, and they have been unable to get the flock cameras out of there, which, you know, I don't know which way you guys are gonna vote tonight, but if you do vote no against them, I want to make sure that the flock cameras are removed, completely gone, and there's no more mass surveillance on us. Another point, another city, Albany, Georgia, just up the road from us, had to fire five officers recently due to the fact that they were misusing the cameras. Milwaukee had to fire an officer just recently for stalking his ex-girlfriend, his current girlfriend, and his ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend. They had to fire him because he's misusing the cameras. Who's to say that that's not going to happen? Houston, Texas recently put out a report saying that the flock cameras have little impact to any on crime rate inside of that city. They've got thousands of flock cameras that have been able to prove any crime stopping ability. Excuse me, the crime rate is not going down because of that. With the flock cameras, many other agencies are able to tap into the cameras that are secure. For example, Mountain Valley, California, the Air Force, the ATF, and the Inspector General for accessing the cameras without consent. And how do we know that this is not going to happen here? How can we guarantee that? Illinois Secretary of State claims that Border Patrol was hacking into their cameras and accessing all the data. Again, how can we guarantee that's not going What this does is just creates so many opportunities for misuse for people that do not want to be watched, people that do not want to be stopped to get stopped by law enforcement inside our city. Perry has suffered significant job loss. Many people have already talked about that up here today due to the mill closing. And then to top that off, we've got hit by several hurricanes. And unfortunately, it's caused people to be in bad financial situations. I think the last thing that we need is more tax dollars allocated to surveilling us as citizens. The end game for Flock is not to just sell us these license plate readers. It's to get every camera that they have in their arsenal inside our city, sell us more cameras, and make more money. Their private company can't fault them for trying to make more money. But the last thing that we need is the cameras that are breaking out of your face. You say something that the cameras don't like or whomever gets a hold of that data, and now you're targeted for absolutely no reason. So Flock wants to also take your data and sell it to big companies, Walmart, Microsoft, Google, Meta, you name it. They want to sell it. They're a private company, again, trying to make money for themselves. I know I'm a founder of Flock. He came out on a podcast recently and said that anyone that opposes Flock is a terrorist and should be labeled with Antifa. I think it's pretty crazy to say. Many others that I've talked to in the city have requested several times to get a trial agreement between Flock and the city of Perry. We've been unable to obtain that agreement. I think it's crazy for someone to tell me that there's no agreement. No way. that these cameras just get put out without any kind of oversight, without any kind of agreement, or any kind of terms and conditions. I just have a tough time believing that. As a citizens, we deserve to know what those terms and conditions are, especially if we're gonna be bearing the taxes on this. I also don't really like the fact that these just showed up in our city, the council wasn't made aware of it, none of us inside the city of Perry were made aware of it, these cameras were just here and we just had to live with it. I think that's completely unfair. I ask that you guys all please consider the things that I've talked about this evening, and I ask that you please vote no. As one of the founding fathers, Benjamin Franklin, said, those who would give up a central liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for your comment.

My name is Renee Monahan. I live at 812 North Street 101. I would like to second everything said, but I also have a very personal reason for being here tonight because years ago I was a stalker victim and reading the instances over and over and over again of how these flock cameras have been misused to target women made it very personal for me. The idea that not only the people who are allowed access to flock, but anyone who can hack into flock, hack into multiple times, could stop me or another vulnerable woman, it's absolutely terrifying. And an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It might not have happened here yet, but why would we allow it? Why would we allow a chance at this happening? We need to protect women, and we need to back our families very far.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good luck, Hernandez.

Yes, sir. My name is Cliff Groy. I live at 1812 North US 249. I have a background in computer science, which means I know computers quite well. In fact, I have two bachelor's in it. These cameras are easily hackable. You can pull up next to one, connect to its Wi-Fi, and hack it. And then you have its IP address, as well as all the IP addresses of the ones that are connected to it, which means you get the whole grid. And that's not just for Perry, but it could be across the United States. It is very easily packable. You can find it online in very obvious places like YouTube. So anybody can do this. I second what the first man said. Third is out. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Oh, yeah. Hey, good afternoon again. Carl Page at 413 Worley Way. I don't think we're arguing if the technology is good or bad. I think the argument is, and I think everybody would agree with me, it's the human element behind the technology. Facebook is not bad unless you stop it, right? None of these things, a gun is not bad unless a person pulls the trigger with a bad heart. We can't control the people using this technology. We can't dictate where the the data goes and who it gets sold to. We do not like being surveilled, coming and going in a free country. And he mentioned Ben Franklin. I don't think our founders would like our freedoms to be surveilled all day, every day, to run to Ace Hardware and to run up here to pay our utility bills. There's no reason law enforcement needs to know my whereabouts at all. What I would suggest, and I know this is not an argument, yes or no, for plot cameras. I believe it's a budget item. We've sat up here all night and have talked about it for many years. Budget crisis in this city. There are no jobs coming in. Big Top's doing everything we can to grow. NAMU's got a big project coming in. They're trying to grow, but it's stagnant, and the money's going out quicker than it's coming in. I've talked to John at length with this. We're in a disagreement, but we're still friends. I've talked to Jamie about it. What they had told me is it's $3,000 per camera. There's 12 now or 15, and they're wanting to go up to 36. So you do that math. Every year, pulling off the city's funds, when we already pay for law enforcement in the city, we already pay for great people like Brother Ray back there, we already pay for dedicated public safety people. So what I'm asking is, with the budget and money in question, are we going to cut a couple jobs to fund this, Because we're already as taxpayers funding a law enforcement. And they're really good at their jobs. And we trust them here in the city. So why would we pay from taxpayer funds to be more surveilled than we should be? And that's all my comments. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I was playing devil's advocate with you.

Anyone else?

Good evening. Trey Blue, 1968 Avenue Lane. I have some notes that have basically already been covered. I won't reiterate those. Just would like to point out that Flock, as a company, has proven themselves to be an untrustworthy partner. So nationally, There are multiple jurisdictions that have found that their data that's collected within their jurisdiction has been accessed by agencies outside of their jurisdiction that they have no law enforcement agreements with. Somebody mentioned Dayton, Ohio is one where they found thousands of searches that were done without their knowledge within their jurisdiction by law enforcement agencies that they have no cooperative agreements with. In addition to that, the deliberate misuse There also has been recently, the last year in Georgia, just the last calendar year since January 1, at least 20 Georgia law enforcement officers have been fired, arrested, or disciplined for misuse of these systems. That includes in DeKalb, a sergeant, 17 years on force, was found to be misusing these systems. I think they get too much power. I'm sure not everybody in that list is what people would call a bad cop, but it's essentially too much power to give to delegate without appropriate oversight to any individual. On security, which was kind of hit on, there have been cybersecurity researchers that have published open findings that these systems have been found to be just streaming, in some cases, live to the internet with no authentication required. Anybody could access those streams. Senator Ron Wyden's office found that a lot of the safety filters that FLOC has promised communities are in place could actually be very easily defeated and bypassed by somebody with, you know, a minimum amount of IT knowledge. So again, just in multiple ways, I feel like FLOC has demonstrated themselves to be untrustworthy. Aside from all of the the disagreements I have in principle on constitutional grounds for this type of surveillance. I don't think FLOC is a trustworthy partner for the city of Perry. So I would encourage us to terminate any consideration of future business with that comment. Thank you.

I got to look some, so do we have 15 block cameras, something like that? 13, I think. 13, looking at 30, is it 36? I have not heard that.

All right, so I'm looking at 13. It might be with the entire county, but just to see there's only so many.

24 county and city, I think. It's not perfect. You can't trust it. I lived in Los Angeles. They had 3.8 million people, and their police department has block cameras. They have 138. That's one per every 27,500 people. We had 7,350. 13, one per every about 550. Are we more dangerous than L.A.? Is this a hard place to live if we need that much surveillance? How long is the data store? So you might know? It's like 30 days.

They're telling us 30 days. Where at? They said they're at Ring server space.

So what happens when it rains? Where's that data going to go? The other question I have is, why are we storing these people's data? If you drive by one of those cameras and your tag's good, why not even know 30 days from now? Exactly. Why can't it just delete right now? I don't understand that. Now, if it's truly some predator you're looking for, great, alarm somebody. But why do you need Bill's information? Where are you going to go? What are you doing? Why do I need to know that? I don't. Okay, so it's stored in the cloud. And my other question was, well, as it's stored there, we don't know. Who can search it? I'm not for the things. I don't know why people are saving. But you're the manager, so I've got to look at you. And so who can search it? Who has the capability? Who can look at this data?

I think it's anybody that has a flat camera. Just sign up on the system.

Do they have a warrant to look at this, or is this just an open book? So is it fine for me to just walk in your house and look around at your stuff? Come on now. I know you like it. Okay, but that, okay. So it can't be, is it impervious for me to act? Okay, Citibank sent me a thing the other day, said they were acting to change the password. Anybody get it? All right. So a lot of times people don't catch actors. So what if I was some type of Ted Bundy person? I act in. I wanted to know where you were at. And I just logged in, didn't let anybody know. And I found you and I thought, man, you know what? She drives every year on Tuesday. Me and her could be really good friends. What do you think?

I had the same talk with my daughter the other day.

Really good friends. Anyway, my other question is, I looked through Florida's pretty unique state. Florida will determine what kind of window you can put in your house. What kind of door you can put in your house. It makes product critical. Guess what? FDOT does too. And their book on putting up signs is a little bit bigger than the bottle. Y'all read it? Just a little bigger. Okay, that product approval list for anything to be installed in a D-O-T approved right away. I couldn't find the flock cameras in there. I did find an application that leads you to another section, which is about 600 pages. This one's five pages, took 10 writers to tell you how to turn your camera in. If you want to be in the camera business, you can build your own camera, carry them at a third party, inspect it. It meets all the specs. And then it's approved to be installed after you have an engineer to determine what the safe zone is on that road. If you're in your neighborhood in front of your house, safe zone may be six feet, 19, maybe 26 feet. Because you have to have a certain amount of distance to run off the road and wreck without hitting something. Okay. Everything in DOT right-of-way has a reflector or it is reflector. Everything. down there at the end of the road. The ones I looked at appeared to be camouflaged. I don't see reflectors. No cameras? I don't see any fly cameras. I don't see anything on them that makes them reflect. I don't mind to see them if I'm running off the road. What if I'm texting while I'm driving and I drop my phone and I'm looking around for it and I don't see that camera on the road and I hit it? Now, I look them up. They're insurance. They have automobile insurance. And it's $1 million per event, $20 million African. Don't take long to run out of that money. Guess who else gets it? My attorney's going to sue you too. Y'all are going to be listed. And once that $2 million is gone, then it's going to be on the city. Somebody here signed for it to be here. So which one of y'all want to take it?

Not I.

Well, if the thing is not, if it's not on the FDOT's approved equipment list for right-of-way, I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying I've been looking. I can't find it. I cannot find it on their approved equipment. So I think that's something we need to find. We need to make sure that they're installed. Now, I guess everybody here is familiar with roads. And you've seen the road being redone several times, although you haven't. And there's usually some guy in really nice pants that goes through and measures stuff and makes sure everything's great. One in the county, his name's Ken. But somebody has to do that and sign off on any of these devices put on the side of the road that it is installed properly, that it is fragile. When you hit a stop sign, I don't know if you've ever heard anyone, but let's say you run over a stop sign, It's designed to fold up. It's not designed to break off and come through the bottom of your car and kill you. So if this is a safety device, let's make sure it's safe. Be kind of like an airbag with nails in front of it. May not be as much fun when it goes off. Okay. Does Flock pay rent? They don't pay rent.

is the camera mounted on them?

Or we don't pay them radio or anything like that. Who's the third? I just want to know. Who's the third? Is the county? Is the mountain? Okay. Is that just all of you? Okay. So we're paying rent to them to use higher land? What kind of rental agreement is that? You want to get rich quick on that one?

They're paying rent to them to use their cameras. But the thing is, why are they not paying rent to us to put it on our land?

Maybe they reduce our rent. What is it? Maybe they reduce our rent.

I don't know. Do they reduce rent on anyone? What I'm saying is, why are they not? They're getting prime real estate. They're on premium intersections. You know what I'm saying? Why not pay us rent? That's not reasonable. Can I think about opening up a business right there? I don't stand out here. I'll give you a copy of the receipts. Anybody abouts to fall, dog, you can turn them in. Okay? Now, the Willard's Club, a minute ago, there was no relief from them. I don't know the deal with them or whatever. But they're a non-profit. And they didn't get anything from you. They voted for it. They voted for it. Got it? But they are non-profit. Why have we got a full-profit business working on seed land? I don't understand.

They're providing us a service.

We're providing them a service. They're selling that data to everybody. They're selling it to your insurance company. They're selling it to Walmart. They're providing a service. They're getting a service. You're providing them quality land. I just don't understand. Most of the time, somebody goes to use something of yours for a business purpose, they pay for it. Okay, now according to Sean, homestead exemption, if passed, probably will, looks to affect somewhere around 37% of the botch on. Do you really have money to spend on this? That's going to be a decent hit. 37%. That's decent. 60%. 60% is 37. Then we have $3,500 a count. Looking at 36. And now you're looking at, you know, the thing is, I don't know anybody that's not going to pay for a homestead exemption. I haven't found one yet. So if it does pass, that's 37%. You never want to spend that money. Why not give our officers a raise? 37 cameras, you can't give them $1,000 a year. I think my bills went up in the last couple of years. What's wrong with that? We're hiring a robot to work for a private company to replace our officers. I don't know. I don't understand. Anyway, I appreciate you listening to me. Thank you for your time.

I just voted to vote. Do you want to add to that, Steve?

My name's Erin Turner. I live at 5125 Turner Road. I'd like to start out by saying I think it's a shame that our police chief, Jamie Cruz, is not here in this meeting tonight since he's the one who brought these plot cameras into our city. And at the last meeting, the council members stated they had nothing. They didn't know anything about it.

What's that? He hadn't checked in.

I just don't think it's a shame. I just want to read a couple of headlines that I pulled from the internet today regarding flock cameras. July 24th of 2026, the headline reads, Georgia cops keep getting arrested for misusing flock surveillance data. April 27th, Police have reportedly used license plate readers to stalk romantic interests at least 28 times in recent years. October of 25. This is a USA statement. Flood safety's alleged involvement in mass surveillance by federal agencies raises privacy concerns and due process concerns. June of 26. stalker camps inside the widespread abuse of blocked license plate readers. June of 26, blocked AI license plate readers. Police misuse cases emerge in June of 2026. July 26, AI audit tools flag suspicious searches as blocked misuse cases mount in Georgia. July of 26, police keep losing their jobs for using flock cameras to stop people. June of 26, flock AI security cameras spot concerns over privacy misuse among Gainesville residents. Another headline in July, tracking the flock, a running record of reported license plate reader camera misuse. September of 25, police cameras track one driver, 528 times in four months. July 26th, flock safety employees watched kids' gymnastics rooms to pitch surveillance technology to someone like the city of Perry. So they actively hacked into, which if I remember correctly, the flock salesperson that gave the pitch last meeting said that they don't have access to those cameras. that only our police chief and his delegate would have access. But here we have block safety accessing live feeds from those cameras inside children's gymnastics facilities. A question that I was going to have for the block safety representative is he mentioned last meeting that if the block cameras are damaged in any way, they're fully warrantied, block camera replaces it with no charge to the city. But we're starting to see reports and hear reports where there's so much damage to block cameras nationwide that they have reneged on that agreement. And they're no longer paying for the replacements of those cameras when they are removed or damaged. So that's just some points that I wanted to bring across. And I know Earl had mentioned, you know, the statistics of like how many we are, how many cameras are. There are four cameras at the intersection of 19 and 98. There's one on every corner of 19 and 98. And Jamie mentioned last meeting that there are only nine cameras in the city. And I know that there are cameras all throughout the county. So who was in charge of those? Who brought those in? Who agreed to have those placed in the county I know, you know, Jamie brought the ones in for the city, so that's just a question that I have as well. I know that you guys are just cities, so we don't know, but it's a point I wanted to bring up.

Thank you.

Anyone else want to speak?

I had a problem with the sports cameras from day one, back in April, sitting under the council. We were not conferred or consulted about it. I've been doing my own research. And I know back then, yeah, every time I leave my house and I drive, it's just 27, 98, and I feel like I'm being followed. I know that they're saying, well, even because of this state, to result in that state, you could say. But if we're going to do anything that this in the city, period, it needs to come before it counts. Thanks. And my man is already there. And thank you for watching it.

When I ran for office, I promised to listen to my constituents and invoke my conscience. And I have listened, and I've heard good and I've heard bad. I can see good and bad use of the cameras. But the thing that really bothered my conscience was the cost. And I can't see spending that amount of money. And we don't even really have it in the budget. It was the budget over $200,000. So I can't justify the cost.

From the beginning, I had a problem with this because one couldn't come before us and even giving us a demonstration on it or even talk with us and discuss it with us. It was just a decision that one person decided to make and that was it. I've been in this seat since 2013. I made one One decision that came back and it bit me because I didn't listen to the people. But this time I'm going to listen to the people. One, we just received a letter from John about the budget. I don't see where we'll even be able to fit the funds in with this. And I'm all for it. You know, much is worth what the law enforcement put in. I'm all for giving them as many raises as they can get. And I'm just not. I don't feel comfortable with this. There's no accountability. So, my mind has been made up over months ago when it first got brought to me. So, I see the problems that I do see.

Mr. Mayor, I want to make a motion, please. Thank you all again. It's the third time in a row. One thing I want to say,

Really address really quick. I'm going to get out of y'all's hair. We keep saying flop, flop, flop, flop, flop. That is a brand. There will be more brands. Axon, Microsoft, Meta, they all have these cameras. So before you make your motion, whether to delete the line item from the budget or ban surveillance cameras in a whole, I'd like you to word it to a point that this can't be brought in by another company.

Yeah.

I've expressed my opposition long, long time ago. When we first started, when we first heard about it, what would happen if this went in? You got, say you got 10 of them. Something happens, they're going to say, Darn, if we'd have had a camera over there, we could have done it. Next thing you know, they're going to want 10 more.

Yep.

And next thing, it'll be one at every buddy's house.

Yep.

At least for now, they don't know what we're still talking about. This is a good way to end.

Thank you. Before you do that,

I know it's already been noted. I don't know if it's officially been noted, but I just wanted to know if it wasn't clear that Jamie Cruz did provide a memo to attach. And he's already noted these things in the meeting before as to why he supports the flat cameras. But I just wanted to know that he had a recommendation regarding the flat cameras appointment. And if it was reviewed, which I know all of you have, And a prior year consideration, even if your decision is no, I just wanted to note it for the record so that that could be included in the minutes since he's absent.

Anyway, it's a very good point from the letter. He does. I guess what it boils down to me is, you know, there's some good points with these cameras. I'm going to say there isn't. If somebody in my family gets missed, I'm going to wish there was a thousand of them. But... I'm not much into this labor surveillance culture we have going on now. I've spent some time talking to an insurance executive today. On my own, calling up, we spent about 30 minutes give or take on the phone. Insurance companies, I did not realize until he explained it to me, probably the largest purchaser they have on the planet. They buy your oil changes. Every time you get your oil change in your car, there's a pin number. They get it. Every time it goes to the shop they work on, every time it goes to buy the shop, anytime anything happens to that car, they know about it. And not just cars, houses. Anything that's your airbags, your life. And sooner or later, you know, I started listening to Hamford about 30 minutes and got me a little pair of quids. To be fair and honestly, a lieutenant who owns Flock. It's actually a company called Flock Group. Block Safety is owned by a company called Block Group. Basically, it's owned by a bunch of investment companies. We signed a contract with Block Safety Group today. Investment companies, as we all know, in five years are going to divest themselves of that kind of department. Who's going to wind up on it? I have no idea. I really don't. Third thing that came to mind for me was Ms. Langer's point. I think they want a three-year contract. In just a few months, we don't know what's going to happen with Amendment 3. We don't know where the finance is going to be. There aren't any better now than where it was last year. Amendment 3 passes the record way first. But really, how are we going to take it forth? So those are just the points I'm going to make. I'm just saying they have good That's not so good. We just got to figure out how to spell it. Now's not the time in my opinion, but it's got some, it's got a lot of beta testing. It's got to get through.

Let's try that on him. John, what about the parks and surveillance at the parks to catch the people that are not being nice?

That's where all this started. Yeah, those are license plates.

Those are not on Cambridge. They're not flock. I think they're the flock brand, but they're not license plate readers.

Right.

Yeah, they're not AOBRs. You call them license plate readers? Is that what you call them?

I made it license plate recognition.

Sounds like, yeah. You're out of English. That's a good question, Brother Parks. I don't know if we can hear you. How we feel about surveillance of parks and where this came up originally, just to give you some background on it for those of you that didn't hear the stories. I didn't even know they existed. These things called TikTok challenges, Facebook challenges, people get on video and they take hammers and start beating bathrooms to pieces. I don't know why. Maybe it costs 15. Again, I could explain it, but I'm not. So I don't understand why people take sledgehammers to the toilets, sinks, and rough bathrooms. compared to somebody in Los Angeles does, and they challenge the world to do it, for some reason, everybody follows suit. So we were spending an enormous amount of money, rebuilding our bathrooms, constantly, I'm not gonna say weekly, seeing as it was, it was a constant suit. Had an idea, put some cameras where you could. God, I had to do a business tonight. I threw the whole thing, sorry. I don't know where I would have had a license. Plague Readers came into it, but they didn't say AOPA or anything. That's a good question. About the part of cameras. In this book, I think we should do. Also great. Is that a form of information?

Well, I have one. I just wanted to know if there are I did not follow the local change recommendation. I think that the cameras that the county has put up in various places that we wanted to catch those people entering are even deaf cameras. Deaf cameras would be able to think out. And we'll make a motion. A motion that we end Black Human Drive period and that we remove Black Human. I don't know if I should have wished I had a permanent plan.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

A law divorce officer.

They can't always be there. And the perpetrators, if they know the officer's there, they're not going to be there. So somebody has to ask. The officer has to ask.

The officer has to ask.

The motion, do we have a second? Second. The motion, I have a second. Any more discussion? Anybody want to speak on? Anybody want to say anything else? I got one thing.

My name's Earl Kettering. Anyway, the thing is, there's numerous camera companies. Anyway, there's numerous. There's numerous camera companies. Many of them use hard drives. There's all kinds of options for hard drives. And I just bought them smiles and covers from my yard. And I can look at it from my ball. So it's like I said, there's a lot of options that do not have to go to the cloud. We don't know where that cloud is. My thought is I would have been halfway reasonable with it if it was on our server. If it went from there to our server, that's one thing. But if it goes from here to somebody else's server, that's a different thing. And I have to ask them, for the right to use it or look at it, then we don't pay our subscription. You don't get, you know, don't use your data. You know, people have gotten pretty unique in the last few years on what they charge for. BMW will charge you a monthly subscription to have heated seats. So again, when this company gets bought out, what will change? What subscription will you get? I'm just saying there's numerous camera options we don't have to go with it. A cloud-based product. Maybe something with a server that uses our equipment. All right, thank you. Thank you.

All right, we're going to move. Wait a second. Okay, I'm sorry. I messed up. Just to just make you second. Yes. I gave that story of ending the trial and leaving the blockade. I'm just afraid. Or on that last point. Anyway, Dr. Flake, And the fire can receive. Okay.

One more question. When you got a motion.

I got a heard a motion. And then a second. You have a discussion after a second. You have a discussion prior to the motion.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

We were able to handle Robert's rule. I would love it, but we can't.

I don't want to say I'm in no way, shape against law enforcement. What's the matter? Very much law enforcement. Yeah. And you can look at our emergency. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to do everything we can to help and do whatever we can, but we also have to protect our citizens at the same time. Yes. So. All right. You know, I'm going to go back to that grant review this year. Yeah, we'll just give that forever. All right. Again, on the sixth page, Council to discuss the proposed military or fiscal year 2026, 2027. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you.

Just to clarify, the city manager's budget that he's presenting next has the 6.1077 factored in. We typically go with the rollback rate unless you increased taxes, but the rollback rate is not increasing. The rollback rate is essentially what you bring in, what you brought in last year. So the prior year millage rate, that is what we had last year, but we essentially bring in less because of the rollback rate. That's exactly what I'm saying. That's what Sean was... That's the approved rate. It doesn't have to be approved today. I just need guidance on what y'all want me to advertise in the newspaper. Please remember that we can't go down, but we cannot go up without re-advertising at our expense. It would be my recommendation to do 6.1077 for right now and then make further decisions later.

Motion to approve. Second. Motion to approve. Second. Motion to approve. Second. Motion to approve. Second.

Councilman Bronson.

Yep.

Councilman Hampton.

Yes. Councilman Woodfall.

Yes.

Councilman Landry. Yes. Councilman Perkins.

Yes. 10 out of 6. I pursue it to C.O.P. Charter Section 502 City Managers to officially present proposed budget for C.O.P. This will be for 2026-2027. Councilman Patigny, if it's necessary.

I'll go over some of the proposals. Before we get into it, do you all have this fee in front of you? Comparing rates between Perry, Live Oak, Williston, Madison, and Mayo. We took an average water usage of 5,000 gallons a month. Perry is lowest by far at 3,265. Live Oak at 4,899. Williston at 4,411. Madison at 3,779. And Mayo at 3,837. On sewer, it's even worse. Live Oak is $70.91. Madison is $63.63. And Mayo is $39.23. We told Florida Rural Water when they did our rate study for water that we'd go up 25% in 2024, 25%, I mean, in 2030 and 2024, and 10% in 2025, which we never did any of those. So we're falling, you know, didn't want to increase rates. And there are hurricanes. You know, it's 80%.

What I remember from the discussions is one of W.S. Grant, so he gave us a lot of interesting problems. John Crippen, I don't know, Charlie, Sean Moody, but we're not at a certain rate to jeopardize a lot of that. That's why we can't get paid.

and showing state agencies that we're not even trying to take care of our own equipment.

And why do we take care of you? I don't take care of you, so that's what, that's the conversation I remember. Good suggestion.

That's Pricewater's fund so far behind. We requested 10% there and then 5% across the board for the other utilities. Thank you.

Get it done. And the budget that is presented to you all also includes these rates. There isn't a way to because of the fact that everybody's is so different.

know you've used different water than you do so there was just really no way to do that that's why we provided that sheet um and and the packet to show the amount yeah okay probably like six percent of dollars for the average customer

So with the normal 3% cost of living raises for everybody, health insurance went up 7.5%. Police pension went up 6.7%. Fire pension went up 5.3%. With our proposed increase to 5% plus the 10% for wastewater. Is that right?

I can't read that part. Back a lot of what you're saying.

Thanks for everybody have a Mac. Thank you.

We're 690 bucks go into reserves.

It was all options. Right here too. and regularly just sit up there. I'm afraid of freezing these positions because we're having a problem now. We have to sit clean the way it should be. And we're going to freeze those positions. We're going to be in it. You understand?

Yes, ma'am. I'm with you. The work's still got to be done.

Yeah. I know, but this year, it's important.

What?

Without rate increases, we won't be able to sleep every night, see?

Without the rate increases and keeping the budget the same as it is now, we're pulling $406,000 from reserve.

Should this be put out? I'm very glad you say this.

without any changes, but it's an operating system.

That was smooth.

Thank you. How much would you reserve? $406,002, Tim. Then next year, that bill gets approved. It'll be another... have made, what do you think, $400 million per year? really bad time and losing Harper at the same time. You're probably cutting your property tax. Complete opposite swing.

I don't know how far we can go. Let's try to chill. Yeah, please take care of yourself. I wrote my letter to the editor.

Everybody I talked to, I tried to explain to them what they really voted on. It's just a greater division between wealthy and poor to me. Yes.

And it is always the poor man who has to pay his costs.

And the President tried to word that bill where they can't understand it.

People do not understand personal case income.

Look at page two. Capital Outlet. Capital Outlet.

Capital Outlet.

Capital Outlet.

This is all the capital outlay requests we had. And I've already rejected 1.1 million. 144,000. I approved one of the pickup. I don't know why it's yellow, but I approved one instead of two.

So I just had it yellow just to show that he only approved one, but in the actual figure, only one of them are approved. I divided that number by two in what is proposed.

So it's 62. Garbage containers is not capitalized in Malaysia.

That's where they've always been put. I said the same thing.

You put it where you want it.

OK. Yeah.

John, the drainage pool off of Allison and Kathleen, will we be able to pull off some of that grant money to get that done, or are you going to have to look for a different grant?

Talking about the... Understream, I think.

Under the, yeah.

We had a note that you release stormwater master plan, you'll identify cleaning of all drainage ponds, then you can get grant funding.

My plan, let's get the master plan from the engineers. They're going to have a list of action items, and I'm sure that's going to be towards the top. Let's clean all of those out. Then it'll be way to get grant funding.

And they're working on it right now.

They should have done it by now. Yeah. I'm tired of engineering.

Not our current.

I would want 511-400. I would make that zero.

That's council's training. Does everyone agree for that? Does everyone else? You're on council, legislative services, training and premium.

Everything is separate.

Y'all too good. League of cities every now and then.

And Miss Landry has been attending the North Central Florida Regional Planning Council.

I will if it's a consensus. I don't know if the council is trying or not.

Everybody else.

There has to be some training time.

Yeah, he only said . Sorry?

He only said council.

OK. You have your grand total, 114029.

That last page. Thanks.

That's in violation of the charter.

Where? The grand total. What's in? Clarify. What do you mean? Clarify what you mean, please. Are you talking about Are you talking about the one that I gave you where it's a deficit?

The what?

Which page? Are you looking at the packet or the feedback?

No writing.

Correct. But we're presenting a balanced budget. That was just a hypothetical. That was just to show.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, we typically apply for all of those meetings.

Would y'all like to do budget workshops itself instead of meetings? Last year, we just did them in the meetings, but as always, y'all ask for it to be an option.