Parks & Recreation Commission - Regular Meeting

back like multiolor or just open skate and then always set up. I've got two different perfect switches on my phone and the way we do it is there's a hockey goal on each end and the the actual target is ahead of the goal. So, and then the kids have to use a stick and puck. Oh, yeah. So, I have colored pucks. So, if the puck goes in the goal zero, right? Or

Italian culture which is like you just got to scream at each other and it's like totally social. Looks like we're live everybody and we're at 6:00 still. You said we're good to go on.

You said we are on live. Okay, cool. Cool. So, we are It is six o'clock. So, we'll go ahead and call the um February meeting of the parks and recck commission to order. Um let's see, get to my agenda here. Um so, starting with our first item here, public comment by persons in attendance. Uh seeing none, we'll go ahead and close public comment and move to report of the commissioners. Let's go ahead and start with our typical left to right. And

I have no comment today. Thank you. I um got the um chance to attend the parks and wreck um Grand Rapids gold game and I was absolutely delighted to see our parks and wreck department there um Saturday night. Um that's all for me. Just that I've heard um very positive uh comments and excitement about both the park grant um for the waterfront phase 2 and um for the arts festival. I think there was a formal announcement from the Ann Arbor um guild and I saw that getting traction online and from people I talked to. Um so I think there's a lot of excitement about those which is which is good to see.

And I have no report for tonight. Nothing for me.

Uh the board of education met on February 9th. We've had some robotics successes in the district. You may have seen. So, we're able to congratulate a Lakeside team and a middle school team that are moving on to uh national competition. Um we also uh in February closed out uh $48 million bond sale of the 158 million for the high school renovation. Uh so those series are going to continue series 2 out of potentially five series. Um that means that everything's on track. Uh still anticipate a June groundbreaking. you're going to start to see more containers and equipment arrive and would anticipate that track coming offline this summer. That's the only thing I can tag on to that is um we uh city commission met um and public works is going to be doing some um removal of uh redundant infrastructure under those tracks but after the spring season but before you guys park on top of it.

So those that that field will be going down. Yes. um which we'll have to figure out here on parks and w y what does that mean redund did you say redundant or duplicate? It's redundant because um like for instance we used to get our water from Reed's Lake. Um so we have water pipe infrastructure on that under that runs underneath that track area right now

that we don't need anymore but we just never had to get rid of. was never something that we had to tear up, but because there um and I I'm sure I'm sure Mr. Lefave could could do a better job explaining this than I could, but um there was extra sewer system and there was extra water pipes under there that we just don't need. So, they're going to go in and remove those before they tear it up cuz we're tearing it up anyway. Is it problematic to put heavy equipment on top of them? I would assume so. The structure maybe. I don't know. And like what what better time than before you're about to to tear it up anyway, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Mhm.

All right. Um let's see. So that's I think that's everybody. Um All right. So our next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes for our last meeting uh January 26th. So any comments, corrections, other changes? Do I have a motion to approve the minutes? So moved. Do I have a second? Second. So we have a motion and a second. Any other discussion? No other discussion? All in favor? Yes. Yes. Any opposed? All right.

Minutes pass. Right. So, next item on the agenda, we have the a couple of event uh special event permit request. Correct. So, first one being the 2026 Reeds Lake Run. Yes. So, uh just a reminder, all special events that require a permit uh that happen in the city uh do come before the parks and recreation commission. uh even the events that are uh the parks and recreation department uh runs and so uh one of those such events is the the reads like run event. Uh this is a a 5k and a 10k event that we run in June. Um typically the last Saturday in June um and so we are again seeking authorization for a permit to uh to host the Reeds Lake Run. Um shown here is the map. You may have heard me talk about the out and back course probably uh more times than u you can count. Um but we definitely do use the out and back course. So we start out in front here in front of the community center. Um and then over by Pioneer Club is where we circle and come back for the 5K course. We also do have a 10K portion for the Reeds Lake Run. Uh so it does utilize some of the same course, but then it comes all the way here around the east side of the lake. um and then circles and comes back. Um and as noted in in previous communications, the the out and back course is really great for not just for traffic flow and to not completely encircle an area, but also is good for public safety uh to help reduce the u the manpower needed along with volunteerism um and helps us kind of limit the the impact on residents. So, um, no major changes, uh, prescribed for the the Reeds Lake run. This year will be unique, uh, in that we'll have the Reeds

Lake run on Saturday and then a week later will be the, uh, Trailblazer run. One week, uh, to the day later. Um, so it'll definitely be a run season by the time we get to the Reeds Lake run here. But, um, happy to answer any questions you might have about the Reedslike run. Do you have an alternative course available if that section of the 10K floods like it is right now? Um, we do not have another great 10K course. I mean, certainly we can get creative and um, you know, start to, uh, use Google to, you know, add a segment here and then see how that can take you back cuz it's really nice when it um, can start and end in the same location. um that um but sometimes turnaround points make it a little difficult. But um

yeah, I guess I would just voice that maybe we want to have something in our back pocket seeing as that's a spring run and if it is flooded, I'd love to not have to figure it out the the day before. I'm sure you wouldn't either. Yes, that would be excellent. Uh much better than a out and back out and back. Uh I guess you could. Yeah, right. Two laps. The way Ann Arbor does their marathon. It's mind-numbing. to do a half marathon and then have to do it over again. It's like deja vu. I just wanted to double check. Are we sure we don't want to run them up and down Hall Street Hill at the end of that 10K? Oh, there you go.

It's brutal. The only comment I'd say is I like this event. It's been fun. I've done it with my kids several times. Um I had a negative comment with some inappropriate language from a racer about running with a stroller last year. Um and I think he just needs to find a different event because I think the organization and the crowds and 99% of the runners there are very supportive of the involvement of kids. So, it's a great event and just want to echo my appreciation for or repeat my appreciation for a family oriented run uh and recommend anyone interested that has a problem with strollers might want to look elsewhere because I appreciate that. Any other questions, comments on this one? Do we have a motion to approve?

Approve. All right, we got a motion to approve and I will second. Um, so with that, we have a motion and second. Um, any further discussion? No further discussion. Um, all in favor? Yes. Yes. Any opposed? No opposed? Motion passes. All right. So, next one we have the 2026 Roads McKe Reeds Lake Triathlon.

Yes. So, this is another event that is organized and and hosted by the parks and recreation department. So, I should have said this for the last one as well, but Betsy Granstra, she's our aquatics director. She's also our our race director. Um, so for the Reeds like Run and also for the triathlon, it's all hands- on deck for the parks and recreation team. Um, you can see here, this is the uh the the map for the event. Uh we do not have the ability to do an out and back triathlon course simply uh because of the the three disciplines. Um the swim would be an interesting one. Uh but um so the triathlon does start with a swim in John Collins Park and then they um they swim over to the um the kayak launch area here. They get out um they do the bike portion of the event um which is the blue um course here. Um and then the the run portion of the event is the the red and the green area here. Um we also do a duathlon the day of the race. And then we also do team events that allow for relays to uh to take place. Uh so the uh that's the reason why there's a red and a green course here is that's used for the duathlon. Um but this is a race that uh we see approximately 700 people participate in uh in the triathlon portion and then some additional uh runners for the duathlon or participants for the duathlon piece. Uh one of the major changes for this year is not related to the course but in the past we've had our post race celebration here on WGI Plaza. Uh the plan is for this year for that to move over to Girkin Plaza near the finish line. Uh one of the reasons why it was moved over here in the past is because uh postra the um the beneficiary for the event which is always a nonprofit group that is selected by roads McKe u they had the

opportunity to sell adult beverage tickets um that in some ways has limited their ability with different nonprofits who they can work with that may or may not be comfortable with that. So for this year that that portion of the postra celebration um is not going to be included. Uh so that that um because it is on school property there at on Gerkin Plaza. Um but the thought is having that over at the finish line in in proximity to the finish line would kind of create more excitement and a a celebratory um atmosphere um as opposed to finishing uh down a gas light and then walking down here and finding your way here. just trying to coordinate that a little more. So, we're trying that for this year, but um that will not have an impact on the uh the the course uh for the race. So, happy to answer any questions you might have.

There's no impact from the track construction. I see it goes it looks like it goes by part of that, but I imagine the road will be open.

Uh the Yes, the road will be will be open. In in the past, we definitely had folks warming up. um for probably for the reads like run as well and you know running to get warmed up. So the our um race attendees will have to find a new location but it won't impact the course itself for our operations. All right, any other questions, comments this one? Uh hearing none. We have a motion to approve. So moved.

Right. We have a motion to approve. I will second with a motion and a second. Um all in favor? Yes. Yes. I. Any opposed? Hearing none. Motion passes. All right. Moving on to our next agenda item here. We have the uh middle school athletics uh registration fee discussion.

Yes. So, this item is included within the agenda tonight and I really am seeking your your general feedback. There's no final decisions being made tonight. Really just hoping to get uh get some of your thoughts as it relates to the middle school athletic program and the registration for the uh activities that we offer. So, a very short history is that in the past, the school district managed the middle school athletic program. At some point in the '9s, there was a collaborative agreement that was put in place that included um the city was helping to pay for middle school sports staff and there was like a joint operation of that program. And then in 2011, um, when we can probably remember some of the funding cuts and the, um, the not, um, not the greatest financial pictures, uh, the city took over the oversight of the middle school athletic program to help reduce the subsidy that the school district was putting towards that and to make the program more um, self-sufficient. And so at at that time, the uh, the program came underneath the city umbrella. the staff who manage and oversee the middle school athletic program. Our city staff members, we handle registration, we handle budgeting. We really handle the full gamut of middle school sports. Um, and so over the last couple of years, we've been talking a lot about vertical alignment and ways to uh reduce the differences between middle school sports and high school sports and trying to create more of that clear connection to our youth programs to high school and really to uh make it more seamless transition for our community athletes who are aging up throughout the programs. And when in doing so, we've also been taking a look at all areas of the middle school program. One of the

things that came up approximately a year or so ago, uh maybe a little bit longer, was the the stipens that we're paying for our middle school coaches. So, we've been very blessed to have a number of coaches who've been with us for quite some time or that are are um maybe they've coached for us when their kids were in the program, but they've stuck around and and continued to coach for us. Um, but the the stipens that we offer for our coaches are a flat rate for the season. So, if they're coaching uh middle school boys seventh grade basketball, for example, the the flat rate stipen for the season was $1,000 and and that goes to cover the coach's time for all the practices, games, uh, throughout the season. Um, all of our middle school coaches are are paid a flat rate stipen. uh that currently ranges from $1,000 up to $1,800. So, $1,800. Uh the the higher amount is for some of our sports that do have a more intensive uh time need. For example, one of those being track. Uh the track coaches have to enter in all of the meets uh as far as who's participating in what event. There's a lot more administrative duties versus a basketball coach. And this is me. I'm a basketball coach too for my son to say here's the lineup for today uh real quick versus having to u do a lot of administrative time. So that's why they received a little bit more pay. Um we started to do a an informal salary study to look at what other area middle school uh coaches were paid. And um as as noted, we're unique. We're one of the only uh cities that I found that runs middle school programs. Uh but a lot of the school districts in the area, they have their master agreement that has uh teachers pay in it along with coaches pay. And as outlined in the memo, you can see some of the area comparables

that we were able to find um like Byron Center, Forest Hills, Kelloggsville on that list show that we are um on the low end of of what other uh districts are paying. also recently found Kent Kentwood's uh pay rates are more in the lines of of Byron Center and and Forest Hills. Um so we are recommending that as part of the budget for next school year uh that we do increase the coaching stipens by $1,000. So bringing up any of our coaches that are currently making 1,000 uh bringing them up to 2,000 and then um some of the coaches that are making a little bit more than a thousand would be incrementally increased as well. So for tonight's discussion, that's really the first thing I want to ask you is that we could talk a little bit about the the coaching stipens and then we'll move into how that can impact the registration fees at the at the sport level. Um but so I'm happy to uh take any feedback or questions on the coaching stipen um increases that we have um tentatively planned for next year. Would we anticipate kind of as you mentioned keeping the I guess the salary schedule based on the intensity of of the administrative work or would we also incorporate I noticed like some of these have a years of service component in them too. Would we have that sliding scale as well or are we thinking more along the lines of the flat fee structure that we currently

Yeah, I I salary schedule I should say. My my intent, Patrick, is that we for this increase, it would be a like a one-time increase and then um the kind of the next layer to that would be to build in some of the the longevity as far as if you stick around for an additional year, it's an extra $50 a season or whatever that number ends up being. Um, I would see this as like a one-time correction and then potentially building in something like that to make sure that um a couple years down the road we're not having to do these onetime corrections all the time. It's something that we can layer in. That makes sense. Okay, cool. Cool. Cool.

So, under option one, would the fees adjust over time based on actual participation? because I see one of the potential challenges for option one is increased cost and already low participating sports may further decrease participation. So could the next year you know um uh which was a good example winter 2 boys swim dive 530 with 20 participants would that say that drives participation down would then cost increase over to 530 the next round? Yeah. So Paul's question is related to the um the registration fees and underneath the current model that we have um that does um I'll get into that a little bit further in in a moment. But underneath underneath the current model option one we um our fees do vary from year to year and they can go down depending on if particip if participation were to fluctuate or um either up or down. we uh we set the pricing for that next year based on actuals from the year before. So that that certainly would be a possibility that um if we stuck with option one um the prices could eb and flow.

So we had a talk about this in finance committee. This came before us in finance. Um and I can kind of give you a quick like uh summary of it. Um, one of the ideas with option two would be that it might help balance out participation a bit because you might have now some kids that like would love to do swim and dive but their parents just don't want to pay the $530. So, if you kind of are evening those out, it becomes a a level playing field for boys and girls sports. If there's some disparities between participation in boys and girls, it makes it even along the board, which we liked. Um, the one thing we are trying to solve and trying to fix is we don't want to be in a situation where a family might be doing one of the lower cost sports because that's what they can afford to do and if we were to raise that rate, they can no longer do it. So, we had kind of um brainstormed maybe part like maybe participating or or putting something together with the community foundation or some other volunteer opportunities to fund raise that money so that we could make that difference up. And um I can tell you from from travel sports and from more expensive sports that we've been a part of um we always had a we always put in a field when you're signing up that that says either like scholarship or coupon code some some verbiage there with the idea being that if someone needs it even if they don't have the code they know it's an option they might ask because if you don't put any option on there or anywhere to put a coupon code or a discount code in they might just think that this is it's it's the $250 and there's nothing you can do about it. So, just by even having that there, it it will prompt people that might need it to either contact Derek or contact the coaches if there is help, which then we can point them towards the community foundation or whatever we decide to do to kind of make that gap up. That's that was kind of the the

summary of the finance committee. I support the stipend increase. Um I think it sounds like a great idea. Let's align ourselves closely with the um other area school districts for the school coaching. Okay.

Right after I threw my phone on the floor, I did a quick I did a just a quick calculation and I have the average. If you took the 2026 option on 1's fees and then did an average of those, that get you at 294 per sport. So, how I'm curious where the 250 came in? It's probably does that include the revenue, the gate revenue? It might be weighted by the participation. Yeah, a lot of it was like you have to multiply by number of people. Okay. Yeah. I I I can't speak to that that quickly. Um track might have a lot more that participate for

and track certainly does have a lot more. Yeah. So there's that weighted piece there.

Um and I guess if I don't I'm not hearing much um else in the way of the stipens. Sounds like generally there's support for that. And so just to jump forward to the um as as Ryan provided that great summary um you know with the increased uh cost in the coaching stipens um we filter those into the cost of the program. So for example the sheet here that you uh that had included with your packet Sarah I don't know if you can zoom in on that a little more for me but it is it is in your pocket. um we we effectively take those uh all the costs of for running the program falls underneath this expense line here. Um to the point that Paul brought up, we take a look at the participation numbers from the year before, take a look at the expenses from the year before and and try to um predict where the participation will be for the future year plus or minus a few depending on which direction it's trending in. Uh and then we um effectively take you know all the costs and divide it up amongst the um participants that we're projecting to have. Um and then that's what gives us the um the participation fee. So underneath option one, this is the way that we've operated um dating back to 2011. Each program essentially has their own budget within the overall parks and recreation budget. So, for example, the co-ed uh spring co-ed track, um we only when setting the registration fees for that program, we're only looking at the expenses from that program. Um the only thing that we're really averaging out for that is this line here. This is the admin fees that I referenced in the memo. uh effectively we're trying to capture some cost recovery for our middle school athletic director for the time that they're putting in to oversee

the program. So, um we're and then the the net revenue here, this is our goal is to have this be as close to zero as possible because we're not trying to make money on the middle school program, having it be self- sustaining. Um so with the um increase in coaching stipens um you'll see here this list of fees and I also have a chart in the memo with uh current year along with proposed for next year. The $1,000 increase for some sports doesn't really have much of an impact on registration costs when there's 80 uh participants in track. But for some of our smaller uh um programs or smaller registration programs, for example, the winter two boys swim and dive, when there's 20 athletes, uh when you add an additional $1,000 to the the fees, that increases the um registration costs for for every athlete accordingly. Um so option one is how we've currently been and and for the recent history have been operating. But when we started to see some of these numbers like the 530 and um some of the other numbers starting to grow um didn't want to make this decision on our own as staff wanted the feedback from all of you because the other option is as as Ryan and others have pointed out is the flat rate registration fee model which um has its pros and cons as outlined in the memo. So, that's that's really um what I'm hoping to hear from all of you after I've kind of heard the feedback on the uh coaching stipens, but wanted to talk through and even if it's just talking points or questions you might have, please share those cuz this is um this is for next year for the fall. There's certainly time for us to talk through this and develop it further. Um but the um the the simple boil down point is

option one or option two the flat rate model which uh takes uh some of the revenues from some of our more attended programs like track for example that would be showing a surplus here u but that would be used to help offset the deficits in some of the other programs um and so it's a little more uniformity uh but um again pros and cons to both. And I just was looking through notes here. That $250 number is is uh is what the high school charges for fees for their sports. That's where that number came from. Correct.

I have a quick question. Are the revenues do those stay with the sports currently? So the gate fees um does that like does the basketball gate fees stay with the basketball team to offset the costs or are they shared amongst all the sports? Currently they are. um it is set to the sport in which they're um so for example this one here the winter 2 girls basketball that is incorporated into that budget that budget and and are there any scholarships available currently for students who might need them or offered

there are yes so when we have uh families that seek this did come up in finance as well when we have families that seek out um inquire about that uh we work with um principal Dyke House at the middle school who helps facilitate uh finding funds for those students. U one of the points uh in the finance committee meeting was it's not like a widely advertised um initiative. So it's something that we could likely do a better job in coordination with the schools just to to share that message because to Ryan's point maybe some folks who who know to ask do but others who don't know to ask might be missing out on that opportunity. Um and um I'm not 100% certain where they end up always finding those funds, but I I know that they do.

Yeah, I know the Jimmy Gerkin fund through the foundation office does some cost offsetting, but I don't know if because it's a city program, like I don't know how the middle school and the city work with the foundation um if it's different, but just curious if that's where the money came from. Yeah, I believe so. But I don't I don't want to say in every circumstance that it has, but that that has been one of the funding sources and and but to answer your question, yes, there have been scholarship funds available. Sorry for so if I'm understanding it right, this if we increase the stipen, this is going to cost this uh of an increase of 32,300. Is that

um so if we increase sorry uh so the the 32,300 this is like our administrative fees that we currently are building into the middle school sports program. Um I don't have last year's numbers in front of me but effectively the um this number um so the the revenue uh for registrations and then obviously the expenses as well both of these went up approximately $25,000 with the increased coaching stipens. Um, so th this number here, the admin fees didn't change. Um, those um those are based off of a percentage of of Shannon's time, but the um the expenses, which is where we would pay our coaches out of, um that increased and then also obviously the revenue increase to offset that. Um and it was on a a onetoone basis um to to help cover those increases. So, how much will it cost to increase the stipen? Is there an estimate in that somewhere? I was breaking it down for me in simple terms like how much does it cost

like in total for all sports combined? Um the the increase in stipens is approximately $25,000. Um based on some sports have um some sports have one team, some sports might have an A team and a B team. Some sports may have an A team and a B team and a wreck team uh for each grade. Um but approximately 25,000 is the is the total.

And I I mean, pardon my ignorance, but is there a way for the city not to pass this cost on to families by increasing the fee? Is there any discussion? Is there money somewhere else that can be used for this so it doesn't feel like we're passing the cost on to families? Um, I mean possibly through the general fund maybe, but I I know a lot of times what happens with parks and wreck is they do try to operate at like a net zero. Is that what Yes. So the that would be the answer is the um and this is not for me or Ryan would have a vote, but would be one of one of the votes. Uh um but effectively that's what it would um that's what it would take if if we weren't going to increase uh registration fees. Um the expenses would be what they are and effectively the city commission would have to um support further subsidizing of the middle school program to uh to help offset that. Um for middle school we do take it a little step further than what we do for our other parks and recck programs. Um so for um our dance classes and all the other things that are non-interchool intercolastic uh we do try to do a cost recovery of approximately 30% of some programs uh like Saturday morning basketball for wreck basketball uh really does a great job of covering everything and and helping bring in some revenue. Um some of them are smaller programs the 30% um just helps us break even. Um I think the idea of the uh middle school athletics program being net zero or I should say being break even was uh started in the 2011 when the city agreed to take it over. That was part of the discussion was to say this

shouldn't be a um an increased uh draw on the general fund. It was meant to try to be uh costneutral on that. But that would be the answer is if um registration fees aren't increased, uh subsidy would have to increase.

To opine on that a bit, um I would say from a consistency point of view, year-over-year, it would be we probably have a better chance to be more consistent finding funding like a Girkin fund or a family found or a foundation to make up that cost difference as opposed to having to go back to whatever commission is in there every so many years to because that would be on the budget every year. And you could have a situation where coaches are planning for this. Um Derek's planning to pay these coaches this and then maybe that just gets cut out of the budget and then what do you do? So just a thought.

I mean everything is getting so much more expensive and 25,000 doesn't seem like a ton of money with the city, but I don't know anything. I'm just saying, are there alternative ways where this isn't something that the community fundraises, but that the city would be able to work it out where they could, you know, cover this? But again, I'm totally ignorant of it. I'm just voicing that it would be a shame to continue to ask families to pay more. I talked to a few community members about this who have um middle school and high schoolers who have gone through these programs um just about how they felt about a more um everybody pays the same fee no matter what the uh sport. And the general feeling was um the fee of 250 was far less than any private soccer co program um tennis program, swim program that students are doing. And so they felt like it was still a reasonable cost um across the board. And the main um question that came up or sort of thought was that if the the revenue for the ticket sales would also gate fees I guess would be spread evenly as well. So it wouldn't be just, you know, that that as the money came in, it would be spread evenly and then the cost would also be spread evenly if I don't know if that makes sense, but um that was sort of what the couple people I asked came back. Does that make sense that the revenue wouldn't just go back to the sport, it would be amongst the group

in the pot for everything? Correct. Um, so that was the feedback I received. Yeah. Looking at the districts mentioned on the stipen page, what you see in almost any other school district in KSD is scale other than ours.

So option two is one way that we provide scale, right? We're landlocked. We're not growing. Um, if we want to have rich programming, and I'm saying this just sort of school district in general, but it applies here as well. we have to look for scale any place we can find it option two provides that and so um I'm also curious about uh in a you know go forward basis in which option two is in place does that also make it easier to onboard uh new sports versus a sport bearing its entire startup costs

um but yeah if you go back and you look at the list Byron center forest there's going to be so many students involved in all of these right we have 15 water polo co-ed right and all these other districts are going to have so many more. Um, and so option two is one lever that we're able to pull in East Grand Rapids in the absence of scale that is, you know, self- sustaining, but that's the trade-off. Um, that allows us to have more programs. Yeah. Again, I'd be concerned with an increased cost creating a downward spiral for the lower participation ones like going up to 530 that might drive participation lower cost increase and it's just going to come off the books compounding. Yeah. Yeah. No one signs up anymore.

And I think this maintains I think I would think option two would have a more positive impact on participation.

I would agree. I like the way that the 250 uniform kind of helps bring down those higher cost sports. I guess my only question with that would be and I know this is kind of impossible to predict but if we look at some of our revenue drivers here with like co-ed track right with the 80 participation with that fee going up to 250 do we anticipate you know is there a sizable number of athletes that might we might lose as a result of that fee raising I know that's probably impossible to predict but I would that being one of big revenue drivers. I would wonder if that number would still stay stagnant or we would lose um yeah, I think that's the the magic question, right? And I I I would have to suspect that to some degree some families that for example, if they're they're not big track families, but it's like, hey, this is a spring sport that you can use for training or cross trainining purposes. is it's $144 or whatever the the price was uh for this last year. It's like, yeah, go ahead and and sign up for that, but u it might be a second thought if it's $250. Um but in the same breath, maybe then if everything's 250, they're like, well, maybe no, maybe you should try water polo because it is a similar cost. But we're we're just Yeah. catch 22.

It's hard to Yeah. kind of parse out, I guess, too. Yeah. But I do I mean I do like the idea of consistency and Ben you talked about the scale piece. I think that's important for a district like ours too. Yeah. And maybe there's a third option based on what you said. Um if we like option two uh maybe it starts in, you know, 27 to 28 and maybe you run option one one more year with a whole lot of communication about what's coming and what's changing. And when I sign up for track and I'm paying 162, I have information right there that next year it's going to 250. It's a good idea.

Could we talk a little bit more about the high school, which I don't have any insight into. It's 250 regardless of sport. Like the breakdown is similar to this. So, as long as it's a varsity sport and not a club sport, it's 250 per player per season. I think that there's some benefit to having a similar model so that you just right transition, you know, go from 8th to 8th to 9th grade, your budget's the same. You don't have a

like a a shift like it seems like it would flow nicely. Mhm. And I feel like that's the whole idea with what we've been trying to align with the middle school um position as well is to like get these kids and these families kind of in the in the mindset and and move them into high school.

Is this what other um cities do, Derek? Is or there do they all have a straight pay structure for sports in middle school or are they variable? You know, I'm uh I'm not aware of another municipality like city that runs middle school sports in the way that we do. Um in my research, I did find that there are other districts do have different registration models like Byron Center, for example. There's their middle school participation $75 for a sport. Um irregardless of of what sport it is. They don't offer as many as we do. Uh, so some of our more um our higher cost ones I would say on this list, they don't even offer them. So um they're more of a club level there. Um but I don't have a great comparison for you just cuz we're so unique in that in that way. But um I would think that if we went down that list forest sales of Kelloggsville and and Kentwood like I mentioned as well might have different pricing models and just comes down to kind of land kind of your point of however they decide to set up the budget in in in that um uh in that community. I I I do think one thing that Commissioner Berdick brought up previously and I one thing that option two does lend is if there were an influx of uh revenue of um for example like some donations or some sort of sponsorship or fundraising that were to happen um in option two that would lend to a nice even distribution. So, for example, if we we did move to option two and then let's say there was a fundraising effort of $10,000, um that $10,000 could be evenly divided and taken off of the registration fee like uniformly for everyone. So, everyone could benefit from that.

Whereas the option one where the varying costs it you'd have to start to prorrate and do different things. It would just be more seamless under option two. It would always it would also just make the the winners win harder, right? Because like you've got 80 people fundraising for track and you have 15 people for, you know, water polo. Like

80 people are going to fund raise better than 15. So it would just be win more and and in this case it would it would benefit everybody. I mean, maybe there's an idea too in the world of option two where we're fundraising potentially for those scholarships, right? And then if there's not a need or less of a need for those scholarships that for folks to be able to participate, then that money can go back to the sports themselves like you talked about, right? So set it up so it so that the fundraising the fundraising is there to offset any potential you know barrier to participation and from a financial standpoint and then after that goes back to all sports. If we implement this in fall 2026 and all these things are discussed about fundraising, is there kind of a thought about the ramp up to if like that's an option of like who how would we do this fundraising, who's doing the fundraising?

Yeah, there would definitely need to be a lot of conversation uh surrounding that. We uh have some team members that are familiar with fundraising. Uh however, I don't know that necessarily that capacity would fall underneath the existing team. Um, so that would have to be a large uh discussion item is if that were part of the the plans for especially for fall of 26 that'll be here before we know it. So So we would anticipate a 250 if we go with option two for fall then kind of that's that's what I would be projecting. Um, but certainly to be determined. Yeah. Or a gap year communicating. So, if I sign up for what was the $500 swimming

water polo or something water polo, I sign up and says, "Hey, next year it's going to be half. I'll be happy." And if I'm signing up for track and next year it's going to be, you know, 60% greater, I can plan for that. I like that idea of just having a runway so families know that this is happening. It might help too very soon. It might help too for getting more, you know, registration for the following year. If you say, "Hey, next year water pole will be half. Tell your buddies." Um, you might end up with more than 15 people, which would be a good It'd be good to know earlier. Um, so that you would be able to, you know, anticipate if you would need more teams, need more coaches, more time, things like that. So, I I really do support a year kind of a ramp up

and and I suppose you could even maybe survey some families to find out how big of an issue is it. Do we need to wait a year or are most people gonna say, "Yeah, I'm absolutely gonna renew at that." Yeah. Yeah. That was that that's a really good point. That was going to be my question, too, is like, do we have the I mean, I know it's probably

not uh I don't know that it'd be, you know, people would be excited about fees in in any capacity, right? But is there a way we could potentially survey and say, you know, if this were a change, how likely would you be to I don't know, just to see. I mean, cuz some reality might be that folks wouldn't even think of it and say, "Oh, yeah, that's fine." You know, but another reality might be we see participation changes because of it. So, I don't I don't know what what that answer would be from a survey perspective. or if surveys just open up Pandora's box of oh they're increasing fees why you know um I don't know

if we don't increase fees by fall 26 does that impact your recruitment with these coaches or is there a reason that there's a deadline of fall 26 like is that the new cycle for when you hire coaches and you want to be able to offer them more.

Yes. So, we're a July 1st through June 30th uh fiscal year. So, we're currently in the middle of our budget. Uh we actually Sarah and I just completed the U parks and recreation budget for the 2026 2027 year and uh these types of things would be rolled into the budget approval process which will take place by the city commission in uh June of of 2026. So, this is kind of like the runway for us for for all fee increases, not just for coaching stipens, but for uh like pool rentals, those types of things. We're working through all those details now. And and generally, we align those increases either with July 1st or the next available uh sport season, which would be the the fall uh 2026. So there's no um like hard deadline of why we would have to do it then, but that's just is kind of the thought process we've been going through. And then as far as the recruitment piece, I would say that um that is that is a lot of times when we are hearing from coaches if they've decided not to come back for the um for that year. Hopefully for the fall sports, we'll we'll know that well in advance of uh the fall season, but for our winter and spring programs, we it's kind of on a rolling basis. Uh, and I would say that currently our ability to recruit uh the the highest quality coaches is somewhat impacted by the um by the stipens we're able to pay from a lack of um application type scenario. So when we post it online, people and we we post the wages that we offer, people are likely passing on applying for us and and choosing the other uh places that are paying more. Um as noted, we've got some really good coaches who've been with us for a long time. And I think that's maybe the best way to say it is that a lot of our coaches are coaching for us either because they want to or

because they can afford to and they uh they don't necessarily need the money. But if we were to increase the stipens, it might um broaden that horizon and and get some um people that maybe necessarily um they're not doing it for the money, but that helps them be able to do that, if that makes sense.

I guess we well maybe we don't have a comparison point. A question I would have too, and maybe I'm contradicting what I said a little bit earlier, but do we see I mean, if the if the fees are set at 250 at the high school, do we see people choosing not to partake in high school sport because of that level of fee? I don't know that. I mean, it seems to me like they would be, you know, if someone wants to continue in a sport, they'd be I guess that gets to the predictability argument is if it's going to be 250 across the board, you know, if they're going to be willing to pay in high school, maybe they're also willing to pay it in middle school as well. I don't know how that maybe changes, you know. Yeah, I would say um just from my own personal experience, I would think that a lot of it would be maybe not the the first sport or the second sport for an athlete, but the sport that they're like, I'm willing to try it, but it's not necessarily my number one. Um so, if it's their first sport or their second sport that's in their mix of um athletics, they're paying more than 250 already for pretty much anything that they're doing, unless it's unless it's through parks and wreck at our lower levels. Our our um wreck program fees are a little bit lower. Um but um I I think that the families are used to paying more, but those sports that maybe it's like track is one of them. There's not really a wreck program for track, that's a lot of times their first opportunity to try track. And I think that's part of the reason why our numbers are so high. But I I think that cross trainining or that ability to stay in shape type um model for if if that's not one of their top sports, but it's a good lifetime exercise to do. So,

right. Um for sure.

When do you need to decide by? Um really I think next uh well so our our fall brochure um that will have um the fall middle school sports and actually some of our um middle school sports will be in the um in the summer catalog because we do registration one season ahead. Um so really in like the next month or two would be ideal. um some of the middle school sports stuff we can get the information out and maybe not take registration as early and um push that off a little bit. Um but it really should happen um no later than June when the the city budget process is underway and um that that does have to be approved in June because July 1st is the start date for that. But there um but if if that's the case, there's plenty of runway opportunities for further discussion. And this ultimately will go to city commission for more discussion as well. Um so there's there's time um is on our side even though it doesn't seem that far away really there is there is some runway.

Is uh the middle school track team going to have the same uh arrangement with Grand Rapids Christian that the high school is over the next few years. They are not. Um so we've been actively having conversations with other school districts um that have tracks in the area. the um and um this is one thing where the the high school admin team, they're helping us with those conversations because it is so unique for a city to be involved. Um but uh Grand Rapids Christian has indicated they don't have the space. They can't they can't take but these these student athletes are still going to be leaving the district leaving practice for practice.

They won't have home meets. So I guess the reason I ask is is I look at the fees. That's the group most impacted by the increase and at the same time that's the group that's now leaving. And so I just wonder if there is if there's anything that can be done from the city or even the foundation, could we target it at track only and say this is a specially impacted group uh as opposed to the other sports? Because if I'm suddenly driving to Forest Hills every day and my fees go up, I might ask why they went up. That's a good point,

but there's not. So, we don't know which district would host our middle school yet.

We We do not. Okay. Yeah, we're still working through that. And um so track is one of the sports that is impacted. Football um will be impacted because uh they utilize that field in the fall. And then lacrosse uh utilizes the track infield for practices as well. So we've got um conversations happening else like a lot of things in parallel because we want to make sure that the East Pride lacrosse program has a space to replace the um the track for their practices and then also the football uh middle school football program as well. Derek, would busing be involved for these students where we would be providing busing to practice where we'd have to include that in the fees or you don't know

um for specifically for track you're saying? I I don't know that uh detail yet. I do know um how expensive that can that can get. Sure. asking and and so I think part of that is going to be incumbent upon the the location and the timing like if it's um something that's right after school um would make better sense for a a transportation option but if it's um something that's later in the evening might just make better sense for parent transportation. So we're yeah we're hoping to have some of those details ironed out um like before spring break of this of this year. Right.

Thanks. Yeah, we we've had some long-standing conversations happening that we're hoping to just get a resolution to. Just to clarify, too, so track is the only parks and wreck facilitated sport that's would be affected by this, right? Because East Pride Lacrosse is its own organization and football is as well.

Uh football is uh is run by the parks and recreation department. It's not on this list because it's not um it's not an intercolastic sport. Okay. Um just not to confuse everyone, but we do have some sports that are for middle school age students, but they're not intercolastic. Uh football is one of them. Baseball and softball. Those are kind of we run those as independent um programs because they're they don't fall under MHSA guidelines. The league that we participate in does not offer those sports. So we um we find different ways um for solutions for that like there's a West Michigan middle school baseball league that we participate in and um because the fees for those types of programs vary um we kind of treat those independently outside of the the intercolastic format.

Gotcha. But um so to your point though, Patrick, yes, track and then football are the only programs that we operate that um will largely be impacted. And then we do have a partnership with East Pride lacrosse for uh field use and we um we hope to uh to honor that by facilitating field availability elsewhere. Okay, cool. Is Aquinus on the list of people we're talking to? My question exactly. They are um and we have a special uh arrangement with Aquinus because they rent space at the community pool.

Um so last fall they did give us some field time for the field hockey program when my field was offline. Um they have a long-term uh rental agreement with I think it's Midwest United if I'm not mistaken. So a lot of actually their prime time are not used by Aquinus Athletics. It's utilized by other groups. Um we are on their list for a field availability, but um the um their rental agreements supersede any availability that we're able to get from them. Are we looking to rent or are we looking for pro bono track time?

Uh we yeah we would we're looking to pay for that that time. Yeah, we're not expecting anything for free from anyone. So whether that's an hourly fee or an annual like season uh fee and that um that holds true for track and then also for um football and lacrosse. Is that reflected here or is that coming out of other funds? That is not reflected here as an expense. Um that's something due to like the short-term nature and the construction related nature of that. we were what three three years three maybe four seasons um that we would look to accomplish that outside of the registration fee um okay component

you have a tough job but so that what you've mentioned is the communication piece because I feel like I would want to know like why have you guys thought about what whenever you ramp this up whether you do do it for fall 26 or you follow the delay in whichever model is there some I like plan for how to ease the community into this where whether it's communicating that the fees are increasing for you know the reason that we you know want to

provide some comparable salaries for our our coaches or the the notice that the track is going to be offline so you are paying you know 250 but you're you're going to be busing somewhere. Is there any plan to have the community aware of this before it kind of you get flooded with questions or just

Yeah, we absolutely do anticipate if we weren't um going to do any of that proactive communication. So, we absolutely would um that likely would be through our program guide, through the East Express, through social media, through a variety of channels uh and trying to communicate the message that it the the reason why it's going up are uh in some ways or positive ways like recruiting um more qualified coaches. Um, and one of the things that we did for the East Basketball Club, for example, that was one of our new programs this year, um, registr registration fees for that program were like 425, so more than middle school sports. And we um just communicated what you get from uh that registration to help folks understand like okay when you start to say okay it is um two practices a week for six weeks and then you get 10 games or however many it is you can kind of start to build that value uh of what you're paying for. And uh we definitely would do that for this because that's the last thing that we would want. We don't want anyone surprised or having to make rash decisions to not register. We'd want them to have this information. And then for our staff, of course, we're um likely going to get a lot of questions. So, we'd want to have a nice communication tool that we could um use to supplement any conversations that we're having.

I think Shannon's also at the middle school registration day, so she has a whole table there. So, as you kind of walk through and get your schedule and all the things, you can talk to her and she can provide information about that as well, which is great because I think parents love that uh one-on-one time when they can get it. So, that's been helpful. I think in the past, too.

You're correct. So, Shannon is the middle school athletic director and they have that. Is it in the springtime like March, April? Well, I think that it there's one in August before school starts that she has a table um and the a whole bunch of you know the PTO does and and the sports does and you're I don't even know what everybody has a little table asking for money. Hearts of gold and so um but she I think also has a table there and and maybe she does at the parent night that's earlier in the spring too. I can't remember but it's great to have have that face and be able to ask those questions. she's really good at communicating.

But yes, that would be the plan to have her there again as well. And I all the years kind of blend together. So I feel like there's something in the spring as well that would um I don't know if this will be settled by then. So we might but we could share like these are the conversations that we're having because we always accept public comment and feedback and emails from community members um on on this stuff as well. Will the track communications be coordinated with the district? So that I'm just imagining families are going to have a high school track athlete and maybe a middle school track athlete um and you know receiving a track communication about one it might just prompt questions. So I'm just wondering if we're coordinating there. Yeah, that's one of the beauties of our vertical alignment effort that we have now with um Josh Shadic helping lead that way and that certainly could be a message that comes from that joint endeavor. Um we're trying to coordinate the um coaches at the high school level down to middle school as well and this could just be another one of those added um bonuses to that. I'm wondering would it be possible, this is just a thought suggestion, would it be possible to maybe create a one-pager and float this idea of a 250 an option two, right? Like a 250 fee to say this is what we're thinking about. this is everything that it would help to do and then maybe offer space for a public comment like if you're you know if you're concerned about this or whether it be financially or any other aspect you know feel free to reach out and let us know would that be I mean I don't know I know we probably wouldn't want to do too much forecasting of that without having you know an idea of what we were going to do but Would it be possible to maybe put some concrete feelers out there to say this is what we're thinking

about and this is why?

Yeah, I think um after this is all great feedback by the way. Thank you everyone. I've got some good notes here. I think after hearing the feedback from the finance committee and from all of you um that's something that we could look to kind of distill this down to one page and I can talk with the the admin team as to kind of what that best approach would be. Um we have that input at eastgr.org email address that we use that we sometimes will say hey send us your thoughts here just so um people um community members can feel like it's not just going to a random inbox. It's like specifically where we're looking for feedback. Um, so that's something I can talk through with the team. Patrick, I think we have all the available information. It's just a matter of um tailoring it to u the one pager. Um, that would be a good challenge for me. And maybe it doesn't have to be one page. Maybe we need to do a front and a back too. So it's a two-pager. But maybe just a thought of like kind of forecasting and and I know it's not a it wouldn't be a completely representative sample, but hopefully if you gave folks enough of an avenue to say, you know, here's why you could build some support for it, but then also if you had any concerns, feel free to reach out to us.

Can you say that the email address once more? It's input at eastgr.org. Well, sorry. So, it's input eastgr.gov. Am I okay?

When we when we originally established it, uh that was when our um emails were at eastgr.org, but that's been updated in the last couple years. But I both of them work. That's uh so so someone does send one to the old one. Um, just like my email address, I still get ones that are addressed to the old email, but um, they'll they'll both find their way to the right um, inbox. Um, but that input input at eastgrmi.gov is an email address that we we've used for Fred Bun Trails input for um, the parks and recreation master plan, different uh, initiatives that we've had. And then um so it's something where we can you know everything can be collected in one spot and then all uh staff um department heads have access to that so other staff members can check in on it.

This is great. This is this is all feedback that I was hoping to get. So thank you to everyone for that. Were there any questions you had or ideas, Derek, that we didn't answer for you? Maybe. No, I I think it really just comes down to the um which um which option has more pros than than cons and um certainly value all of your input um on that because it's um yeah, I can see I can see it from both sides. So

yeah, I think just to put a bow on it from my perspective, I agree with all this feedback and I'm not trying to minimize it at all by being too conclusory, but I think just to answer the specific feedback questions asked, in my opinion, I would say I I'm in support of the stipend, the coaching increase, but also that I think option two um reflects better equity, um has better impact on participation, um really fits in with the vertical alignment with the high school Um, yeah. So, I I would be in support of option two recognizing these concerns and and comments, but just to voice my support for that.

Yeah, for sure. I know we don't have to maybe not everyone want we we don't necessarily have to go around and get like a yes or no up or down, but I would agree with that as well. just I think it adds a simplicity and a predictability nature as well too that maybe we didn't discuss as much and it's not something that families are unfamiliar with at the high school level at least you know so if you've got um students that have been through the high school and maybe younger athletes it would be a familiar

price point as well too so I think with all of that I would be in support of option two for what it's Agreed. I think the concerns raised were how to get to but not with the merits of the proposal. Mhm.

Any more comment? I think we've probably discussed everything for tonight, right? All right. So, with that, we can move on to I think that's our final agenda item, right? Report of

Yeah. Reporter director. I included in the short memo there with just some updates throughout the month. Um, just wanted to touch on a couple other quick things. So, uh, as Michelle noted, we had the the GR Gold, uh, game. This was it was like the West Michigan parks and wreck night. So we were there, city of Kentwood, city of Wyoming, a couple others. Um, East Grand Rapids, we had almost 70 people came out and it was like a buy one adult ticket, get a kid one free, I think was the deal that they did and it happened to be princess night. Um, but so this was the first time that we've participated in something like this. We had a a booth up top with some East Grand Rapids bag tags that we had for the kids. Um, so definitely something that we'll be trying again in the future and maybe um maybe like um what is it? the Rise, GR Rise, or some of the other like the new soccer team coming into town. So, we'll look for uh kind of unique ways to uh interact with the community. Uh that was a fun thing on Saturday night. And then Saturday during the day, Sarah and some of the rest of the team uh went to the the women's sport and health expo um and were able to help promote our races that we have, make connections with other uh race uh entities and um recreation based uh businesses and uh do some recruiting for staff and all sorts of things. So, it was um a fun day to uh get out and promote recreation. And then the last item I had was uh last month we had talked about the the new um digital payment method for the middle school. Um and just wanted to report it seems to be going well. The um the amount of people that are using it uh it tends to uh increase. It's increasing I should say. People are still figuring out that we have it and I think people have been so well trained to bring cash that that they've all had it. But um it's been a nice um ease into it. So, all of our staff that work the um admission tables

can have gotten to learn to use the technology. Um we're definitely going to continue using it in the future. We're going to buy a second unit so when we have home games at the middle school and then also um at the uh on Memorial Field, we can um concurrently accept payments wirelessly for both events. So, it's it's been a good addition for us. So, and that's all I had to report. Excellent. Any questions on Derek's report? All right, with that, I guess we can go ahead and adjourn officially and I'll thanks everyone. Thanks, guys.

Thanks. You're going to be busy next week with all