Parks and Recreation Committee - Regular Meeting

All right. I'd like to call the Parks and Recreation Committee Tree Advisory Board meeting to order for November 3rd, 2025. Begin with the pledge of allegiance.

To the flag of the United States of America, to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, and justice for all. Okay, next up, roll call. Gary Johnson, present. Kathy Ste, present. Mary Heinman present. Jennifer Mueller here. Mike Abbott present. Jay Erenss present. Thomas Byron is coming in the door. We have seven for the quorum. All right.

Barely. Okay. Uh just to remind everybody if you haven't already, you might silence your cell phones and uh please raise your hand if you wish to speak so you keep track of who's talking. Approval of the minutes should have before you last month's October 6 minutes. You hadn't had a chance to look at those, take a quick look through them, any comments, addition, corrections? Okay. I'd like to make a motion we approve the minutes as written.

I'll [clears throat] second. Second. Uh as oops, excuse me, this is J I guess. Uh all in favor raise their hand say I. I. All oppose. No abstensions. Thank you. Approved. Public comments. No public comments. No public comments tonight. All right. Thank you. And move on to the committee meeting items. Old business discussion regarding a bid to move Oldtown Pavilion. And there's a memo that uh came from Dan Howard regarding that. Dan, are you with us tonight?

Yes. [clears throat]

Uh pretty much it's in a memo um on numbers I received from EHM moving company. Um and then some estimates based on the construction for the concrete, the peers. Um, and like I stated in there, the estimate that I put together does not include uh any parking lot construction permits, engineered drawings, stuff of that sort. So, just to move the pavilion, get it set, um, you're looking between $175, $200,000.

Okay. In addition to that, uh what what sort of the items would you think would be necessary? I suppose there's concrete for parking lots, some other things you had identified. Correct. Uh the construction of parking lots, engineered drawings, permits from the county, um any electrical work, any plumbing, any anything else that would want to be uh included in the project.

Yeah. Well, that's uh getting pretty high, I guess. Has there been a PL plan made where the building would go and how the parking and all that had fit into it? Entrance, exit from the main roads and everything else. No, it has not. I was No, it's just a cost to move it.

Yeah. I This is my perspective. We currently have a moderately successful farmers market. We have the infrastructure where it's at now that includes a pavilion, parking lot, and bathroom. To me, it doesn't seem good stewardship of taxpayer dollars to spend over a quarter million dollars to replicate the infrastructure that we already have. That that's just my opinion.

Okay. I guess one of the bigger complaints with the existing location I understand it is the vendors can't drive to it as easily. You can't pull your park up in there car up in there and park sell things out the back you pick up in that as long as it's dry. We do allow the vendors to drive up to the pavilion to unload their vehicles. Okay. I just wondered I don't know how much it would cost or if it's even necessary to put something in that to help accommodate that but it's probably going to be a lot less than what we were talking about

from what I understand over you know when it first was relocated that was one of their number one issues that they had but since it's been down there and functioning now for a couple years the vendors are are really are not having the problem with um having to move their stuff, you know, from the parking lot up there. And like Dan said, when when the opportunity is dev, he does allow that. And the vendors are actually really enjoying being down there. Um they they become accustomed to to that difference in the parking lot.

Other comments from the committee? No, I I kind of side with Jennifer. It's a little pricey. Uh I guess we have something that's reason working reasonably now. So, do we want to table this proposed project for the time being and come back at a later date if we find that it might be necessary? I I think the whole premise, if I recall correctly, behind moving it was seeing what the cost was versus building new at the new location. We were kind of under the impression that it would be significantly less than this to move it. So, I don't think moving it on is it should even be considered at this point. I think that's an exorbitant amount of money just to move a wooden structure. Granted, it it's that size, but surely it can't cost $250,000 to build a pavilion at the new facility, and it would be brand new. And I was actually down today. You know, some of those some of that wood that's currently being used is is not going to withstand a significant amount of time in the future. So, you'd be looking at replacing it before too long anyways. M [clears throat]

so I would say just as far as the whole I I would I don't know if I make a motion or not. As far as moving the pavilion, I would say kill it. It's it's not cost productive. Okay. Uh you want to state that in the form of a motion then? Yeah. Uh, I would motion that we uh kill the thought the the whatever terminology you wish to use as far as moving this pavilion due to the cost involved. I I don't I I agree it's not it's cost prohibited. Okay. Second. I'll second that.

All right, Jay. Thank you. All in favor of the motion made to uh discontinue a proposed project that we looked at. Raise the right hand say I. I. I. All oppose. Jennifer is not up on your screen, but I guess you probably voted with us, Jennifer. Yeah, I'm kind of done hearing about it. Okay, that's fine. Just wanted to be sure. All right, so it didn't pass. Thank you very much, everyone. Dan too, especially we had five or six months of you chasing after that. So yeah, I apologize Dan for the time involved, but that just seems excessive to me.

Yeah. Uh that was the only piece of old business new business guards playscape and fa favic nature preserve. I'm from Nikki again. Oh.

Um, [clears throat] so when the board went through the budget, uh, there was a a dollar amount placed on this and I just thought there was not, again, kind of like this pavilion. There wasn't a location selected. It was sort of this just where are we going to put this? We're putting money towards it, but where are we going to put it? Are we going to do it? What's the parking going to be like? It's new construction, so it has to be ADA. Um there just a whole lot of things involved in it. So I asked that they take that out and it come back to with the board's approval. Obviously I made the motion that we take it out and bring it back to the park committee to is it something you want to do? Where is the location going to be? What are the materials going to be used? Will it be in a place that has adequate parking if you put something in? I mean, this this playground that they're getting ready to put at Budweis that we put $500,000, that's how much that playground's costing is $500,000. And there's 15 parking spots at Budweis. So, if you build something very cool in the city and everybody comes and they're like, "Oh my gosh, you have to go to Fenton and see this new nature playscape that they have." And they get up there and there's 10 parking spots and they're all filled. It's it's just a logistic kind of thing. So, like logistically and how much money are you willing to budget to have one of these?

That's all. Okay. Anyone remembers more of the specifics around that? Well, my idea was just a a low-key minimalistic type of uh spot in in the in the nature preserve. um like logs laid out as balance beams, stepping stones, maybe a dirt pile, and just kind of like kids playing with a cardboard box. And where would that be?

Well, there's different options. Okay. Maybe um where the parking lot is with the the new bathroom or public works is using that as storage quite a bit. I don't know if if we would have space available. Another option might be up at uh where the Budw Wild annex path's coming in or uh there at the overlook area where they're they're rebuilding the the wall and the stairway. So, it might just be a but you know they all those three spots have their pluses and minuses.

Mhm. Yeah. You probably want something big parking lot. That's there's parking there. There's a bathroom there. It's just would the space be available to us. Yeah. You'd want it to be readily accessible, I suppose, if you're going to take little kids up there and reasonably flat, which sounded like a lot of those weren't very flat or if they were flat, they weren't accessible. Yeah, cuz you got to go up hills to get there. I got to put put together a a PowerPoint here that she's um they're pulling up.

Okay. And there there's examples around the place. There's a a big one in Forest Park and that big Brentwood Park, but I'm I'm looking for something just a lot smaller in scale. [clears throat] No splash pad, no water features or anything. Just Mhm. And a lot of it's material that's laying around in the city, if they would want to use that, rearrange it. Mhm. I would think most playgrounds at a minimum you'd want them to have wood chips, bark chips, something like that.

Yeah. And and and the the city pays people to haul off our Okay. So, kind of lowbudget natural artifacts that might be left over from other projects. Yeah. from around and to I guess accommodate a small number. Yeah. Just doz up to Yeah. Just as a small feature for him to come visit. We the city's owned the property for about 27 years now. Mhm.

Okay. How much did you envision? Didn't you say there was a big number in there for the money that it might require? I think there's 10 $10,000 what we originally asked for and an alderman said about 20,000. Okay. But you know there's I have no estimates or anything like that. Okay. Doesn't sound like a lot of definition to it yet, but it was low budget. Mike, is there some place in St. Louis that currently has something similar like that we could go and kind of Yeah, the Forest Park. Um, oh, I'd have to look at the Is it Are you talking Not Turtle Park? No, not Turtle Park. In in uh near the zoo uh

up by the Okay. Yeah. Here's a couple. I see it now. Okay. And then that big Brentwood that new big Brentwood park along the drainage area has has a real fancy one. It's almost be stuff looks a little cleaned up and matches the surroundings almost. Well, is this something that would be perhaps suitable for the new annex, Fabic annex at the top where they're going to put the pavilion in to have

possibly. Yes. some something that's kind of natury and I mean I think as they're talking about having a ADA loop going around there I don't know if there would be that would be appropriate spot to have something of this nature since you already since you already have to have compliance it's going to be a new build you would have access for people there would be a path parking would be there there'd be a bathroom there.

There was some concern when we had all the um public meetings about where to put this new playground and that was the original location was up there and the some of the people that came said that they one they didn't want to walk up there. It wasn't walk I mean they'd have to drive. This was more of you could come from Forest Null and walk to the playground. one, that's a pretty steep hill, and two, they felt like that was kind of a secluded location just to be up off by yourself. I I guess there was just some uncomfortability expressed, and that's why it went down at Budwe. So, I guess my question is what are people actually I mean if you're putting something in at the top of the annex like like what's the what's the overarching you know I get like not having a playground there and that a mom might not want to have be there with her little kid by herself but the intent is to put something on the annex is it no longer

that was not part of the grant okay but there was there an intent was there talk at one time and then it was moved to bed so that's totally So that's totally gone now. Well, it wasn't part of the grant. We did a master plan and got a grant for that area and that a playground was not part of it. So,

and when we did, yeah, when the master plan was put together, there was some discussion about playgrounds and stuff in that area and it was decision that was decided that originally they showed a possible playground going at the bottom of that property. Um, some people had some concern on its location, how close it was to the road and other things. So, the the board made the decision to go ahead and build to provide for a playground on this side of the city, the the playground that we're currently building at 500,000. Um, they've also put in the budget next year to rework and look at um the playgrounds in Benton City Park. So I guess my question is right now is there any So there's no plan in place right now of any way, shape or form to do something with that newly acquired annex at the top of the meadow.

Yes, it's we're we're investing about $1.7 million in total in construction up there. It provides for a parking lot, ADA access into Fabic. It'll have a restroom, it will have a pavilion, and we're going to rework the pond. It just will not include any kind of playground because it's what's providing the additional vehicular access or access for people to park and go to Fabic from this side of the city which was the intent by the board purchase prop purchase the property.

Okay. I think it's a great idea in theory and if there was a spot for it that had adequate parking and people could come it just and the other thing too is anything new we do I don't know how they do these where they've done them but I think if I'm not mistaken ours would have to be ADA correct because it would be new construction so it would have to have all of the ADA compliance and using something that's existing I I just don't know that you could get that ADA some of these Um, I think they're not natural. May they maybe they are, but they don't look like they could be a tree that was cut down because it was diseased and then somebody goes to jump on it and it's rotten through the middle and they fall through. I mean, it's I think some of these are made to look like trees, I believe. All right. Well, you think we have enough information that they can go back to the board of alderman?

Well, it sounds like there's no interest in it. Yeah. Doesn't sound like sold there for a number of reasons, I guess. Okay. So, do we want do we need to have a motion to take money out of the budget for that? No, it was not. They did not place it in the capital plan because they were looking for additional information in order to make

All right. Well, I guess that's uh out of the running. Any objections to that? Major. Okay. Item on the agenda. I think it's the parks park board, right?

Yes. Um we're looking to select a date for the um 2026 Arbor Day. Um I will note that you know typically the National Arbor Day is held um I think it's the the last Friday in April. Um whereas Missouri always does it on the first Friday in April. We always typically do ours on a Saturday. Um, possible Saturday dates in April include the 4th, 11th, 18th, and 25th. However, Easter is on the 5th. And I know that's something we've always kind of looked at because of, you know, obligations. I would say don't do it Easter weekend.

Yeah. Well, and I will say on the 18th, I know that Rock there's a Rockwood Summit trip to Branson, so there will be a lot of families and kids heading out for that. So, I would I would say not the 18th, which leaves us the 11th or the 25th.

Well, the 11th is still Easter weekend, so I don't know if that It's both that it was gonna That's Orthodox Easter. Oh, yeah. Because I thought it was very early this year. April 5th is actual Easter. Sorry. Yeah. Okay. Well, you want to say the 11th and if that gets rained out, we can fall back maybe to the 25th.

Yeah, I'm good with that. Okay. Like to make a motion that we celebrate our Arbor Day 2026 version on April 11th. Park to be determined. Yes, we can. We can discuss which park next month and bring back. I'll second.

Okay. All in favor of celebrating Arbor Day 26, April 11th, raise the right hand say I. I. All nay. Jennifer in there. Thank you, Jennifer. Pass. Okay, that was the new business. Uh, park reports. Did we have somebody signed in? Signed in. Wait entry. Okay. All right. Uh, park reports. Budwell. Uh, the park looks good as usual. Uh, restrooms are closed, of course, for winter now, so everything looks good to me.

Okay. Uh, Marramat Greenway, there's a little more graffiti on one of the trash barrels at the boardwalk, for lack of a better term. Other than that, things look pretty good. Riverside, Riverside and Valiant look good. uh went by there again today. Uh I'm assuming that the I know I talked about this last month, the construction uh on the bathroom that'll probably get done, I'm guessing, in the spring, but they filled in all the bee holes and everything. So, uh and the new pavilion looks really good. That work will begin next, he's hoping, Monday. Oh, awesome.

All right, West Side Jay, everything looks fine. There's there's no changes and a lot of trees marked decken down which would be good but the park's in real good shape. All right, Fabbec Mike.

Uh Fabic's looking about the same. Um up at Presler Lake, the the lotus plants, I don't know if they've been treated. They're a little brown around the edges, but it could be the the cold weather. Um the benches have erosion. They need to be reset for the concrete pad stripping hazard, possibly caused by a clogged drain pipe that runs under the the paved trail there. Um, otherwise the sign for upper Fabic Lake is showing signs of rotting and the bare dirt around the lakes need receding, but it might be a little late for that. Keep the erosion down. Mhm. Okay, Fenton City Park, Mary.

Um, looks good. There's lots of tree work going on there. There's some trees that are down. There's some trees that are marked to come down. Um, the doggy displays centers um have been very popular um and well used. So, that was a um great addition to the park. Um but overall, the park looks really great.

Good. New Rose Memorial in Oldtown. Yeah. Um the electrical box issues, the the pipes sticking up. I noticed they were gone. So, thank you, Dan. He does take he does listen to us. Yay. You know, um couple things. And I don't know how much of this is just normal wear and tear, but like the bronze lettering on everything, all the bronze is starting to get that that bronze ick on it. I don't know if we clean them or how often we do. Yeah, it's starting. they're starting to be needing it. So, um the the where the World Trade Center piece of steel is, the gravel in front of it, it looks like somebody may have been digging in there. It's a little low. Uh like a couple five gallon buckets of gravel. It's just you can see it's down below the concrete bases for the other plaques in there. You can actually see under them. So, I don't know who was doing what. And then as I was leaving, there's a tree island as you're headed towards the basketball court and I I I moved the rock, but there is like a triangular rock that was sticking straight up and has jagged edge on it. I I moved it, but I don't know what the purpose of it is there. And there's a couple the other side it looks like it's [snorts] like plateaued almost like a brick wall, but that side they just look jumbled. And I just looked at that, thought, man, if a kid's running by and falls on that, it's it could severely hurt them. I flipped it down, but it's just a completely jagged piece of rock. So, at some point, it probably should be removed.

And other than that, like I said, I don't I really It was kind of nice out today, so I actually took time and really really looked at stuff. So, and then for Oldtown Park Plaza, um the two wooden benches, one of them is there is broken. It it [clears throat] needs to go. The other one's well on its way. The wood is warped and bowed, but you know, the picnic tables and everything like that that are there are fine. Um there's some electrical outlet covers that have been ripped off. So, I think three in total. Um There is a old water pipe there that I noticed for the first time. I've been looking at that for I don't know better than a year now and it was just like oh hey there's water. It runs up into the rafters and then is there's it's a jagged cut off. So I don't know what it used to be but it's it's not functioning. There's no water to it. But I was like what just it looks ugly. [laughter] And when I was looking at that, um, something that I did notice, I think we're out of the area now this time of year, but there are some pretty significant wasps nests up around in there, too. I counted at least three of them. One of them was the size of my palm, size of my hand. So, I was like, "Woo, glad that's not active." And then the only other thing would be the pavilion light on the end towards um the road out of there. I guess it would be the east end. It's cobwebbed over. I haven't been there after dark to see if it lights up, but it's obvious that the spiders like it. So, um, and then as far as the rest of the park, the trash can at Center and Mound Street by the sign for Old City Town further down there by back where the old bridge was that went over, it's

graffitied. So, somebody has has been to town on it with graffiti. All right. Thank you. [clears throat]

Uh, updates from the city staff and Um just as as um usual, I've provided the 2025 capital park plan projects. Um noting the ones that have been completed as stated earlier, Valiant Park, they do plan to uh start the work next week. They've been waiting on the materials to get delivered and then there was a delay with the rain last week. Um and then the work has started on the staircases up at Budwe and um and Fabbec Nature Preserve. As far as the fencing for um Vic, we are waiting. The problem is the wait time on the material for the for the fence to be delivered. And once that's delivered, we're hoping to have that project completed this year.

Okay. Thank you, Nikki. Any questions on that? I think I think all the signs look great. I've had a lot of people comment how much how nice they look. So, I just throw that out there. I took the one picture. But yeah, I think it looks really great. And we have budget for next year also to look at some additional thanks.

May I turn? Um all the rest of the park projects that were sent to the board were approved and um the amendment to the public parks, the chapter 220 code and the um the uh ashare agreement with the Missouri Department of Conservation and Missouri natives to continue all the invasive species. That was all approved. And as I mentioned before, if you haven't gotten up there to see the new playground that's going on, I mean, they've got it all kind of mapped out. It looks much bigger than it's going to be because of the construction fencing, but um the equipment is sitting at public works. They're just waiting to put it up. So,

MSD has gotten involved now. So, Oh, yes. and we were approved for the phase two grant for the annex. So that's all. All right. Anything else from anyone? Okay. I think we've completed everything on the agenda. Somebody make a motion to adjurnn. Motion. That was a motion Jay made. Tom seconded. All in favor of journ say I. I. who no nays. I didn't hear it. Okay. Thank you very much everybody. Next meeting.

Yeah. Next meeting here is December 1st. Thanks. I don't know why I'm waving too. I think you can't see me. Stop. Um, no. Uh, no.