Town Council - Regular Meeting

Today is Wednesday, July 30th, 2025. It is 10:02 a.m. and I would like to call to order the special meeting of the town council of Bowling Green. Would everyone please stand for the pledge of allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

We will now take a roll call. Miss Davis here. Mr. White, good morning. I'm here. Mr. Web here. Dr. Chenalt here. Vice Mayor Coyle here. Mr. Stor here. Mr. Haggman here. All members are present and we have a quorum. We are here to um discuss the town council composition for the town council. And um am I turning this over to you at this time or to Valerie? We all want to do it. I mean I I don't really have anything I don't have. turn this over to you.

Um well, okay, fine. Okay.

We um this this we had a discussion at uh our retreat in January and one of the things that we discussed was our council composition and having the mayor be part of the council. Um I had a vision of a seven member council with mayor having a voting um spot on the council. It would reduce the council from 8 to 7. Vice Mayor Coyle has a um vision of a five member council. Um in my vision I see that the citizens vote for the mayor. I see that as a four-year term. Um, Vice Mayor Coyle sees that the mayor should be appointed by the council.

Not totally. Okay. Keep with your vision.

Okay. Well, that's why I wanted you to speak. Okay. So, I feel like that the mayor should be voted by the citizens because at the end of the day, I feel like they should be able to choose who represents them to the world. the greater world at large. I also feel that the four-year term is important because we have community outreach and partnerships with other jurisdictions. If you're changing the mayor once a year, it makes it very difficult to build these relationships. Like when I meet at Fort AP Hill and we're meeting with other supervisors from other counties, it takes time to build those relationships. especially when you're only meeting three, four times a year. Um, if it's a four-year term, you have a chance to make those bonds, build those relationships, and be I feel more productive. At this point, I will turn it over to you.

Thank you. Well, so I will take exception with a couple of your comments. I don't have a challenge with the mayor being elected.

Okay. I mean that's not my vision. The reason I brought this thought process to um council is and I'll give you my background story. When I first started on council 2020 years 2020 when I was running to be a council member I'm walking down the street and Mr. Stor says to me, "Anyone running for council?" And I said, "Hopefully we have enough people because you always seem to have a challenge." We do having people run. And I told him, I did talk to a resident whose comment to me was, "I'll take one for the team and I'll run." Whoa. Light bulbs in my head went off. Last year, the day before the deadline to file for counsel, we didn't have enough people to run. Again, here we are with a shortage of people running for counsel until the last minute. This is how I got to the point of thinking maybe a discussion would be in order to discuss the composition of reduction of council to maybe five members. Whether we have an elected mayor or not is part of that discussion. Elected mayor is fine. My biggest question to you is why do you want the reduction?

I think it would make for more efficient government. I think that um it would our the mayor's position now does not have a power of veto. They have there are three different forms of mayoral government and we have the first form where the mayor only runs the meeting and represents the town and signs financial documents and contracts. Um the mayor is approached by citizens and they have this vision that the mayor should be able to help them on some level and it's difficult to do that when your hands are tied and you don't even have a vote on some of these issues. Um, I will say that one of the reasons I would like to have it at seven instead of five, even when we were at our retreat and the Berkeley group spoke with us, Kim said that he also believed that seven was better than five because five members puts too much power in too few people's hands. And I go back to the year 2018 where we had the spouse of a um sitting council person join the council. So we had two members from the same for two years on council till that person became mayor two years later. And if that were a five member council and those two were two people were on there and they had a third person they could monopolize all the votes. And I I I feel that that is just

so power. You you want power. You're you're wanting a vote. So for me, and I want the mayor to have a vote. This will take place after my term is up. Whether I continue in this position or not is irrelevant. I think that any mayor who sits in this seat should be able to have a voting voice in this council.

All right. So in my brain and that could be a scary place sometimes. I feel a five member council it's a popular choice in many counties. It gives a balance of representation and efficiency. It's effective in decision- making because a smaller council can be more efficient and easier to coordinate decision-m. It provides accountability and representation. A smaller council can be more directly accountable to the community as each member represents larger portions of the population. A cost. A smaller council can be less effect uh less expensive to operate than a larger one. Frankly, for me, anybody who comes to council, mayor, council person, because of a vote is frightening. Holding a council position involves more responsibilities and demands and a commitment to serving the community simply than casting a vote. So I for me the fact that you think the mayor should vote as chairperson I have many issues with and that's probably the biggest one. Voting is not a reason to make a change in composition or even to serve as a public servant. uh

doesn't provide power to anybody. For me, the word power belongs at the end of a tool, nuclear, or energy, not in someone's seat as they're working for the community. Understood. So, at this time, I'd like to open this up to um council members, their thoughts, Miss Davis. Well, actually, to be honest with you, we have so many other issues. I don't know really why we're bothering to take time to do this. That's my thought.

This was brought up at the um retreat back in January and Miss Coyle and Mr. Dr. Chanel, you were the ones that brought this up to the town. Not really. That was what I was indicated to me that you the two council members were the one that called this meeting. Well, we call the meeting because we have another issue in close session. Okay. And this needed to be addressed as discussion. We didn't do this because it was brought up in in our retreat. It was briefly perused at our retreat. You had mentioned it. Kim had mentioned it, but there was no discussion. Okay.

Since we met with the town attorney and the town manager, the four of us met. I thought it warranted discussion. Wherever this goes is not a challenge for me. I just thought it warranted discussion because we do have challenges at times, Mr. Voit.

Okay. Um, yeah, I guess I got a few thoughts on it, but I don't want to take too much time here. Um, let me go back with I guess uh my story kind of the way that that you you were talking at the beginning there, Valerie. Um I came onto the council uh starting in in 21. Um so you got appointed a little bit before me. So but we were running in the same one. Um and um at that time um I kind of echoed some of the things that uh that that Vice McCoy was saying. Um there there weren't enough people that had had signed up initially in that run. Um but my my opinion has actually evolved in that time since. Um ultimately in that year we ended up having several writing candidates. Um they uh yeah we're a little late to that to that uh particular uh one but there were more people vying for seats than were seats at that time then subsequently in um uh you 2018 didn't didn't have a whole lot of throughput but then uh 22 did and then the last election we had more people invested. I I I get what you're saying that they they waited kind of to the last minute. Um I I think there were other reasons for that. I I think people were just kind of contemplating whether or not to run and you know I felt that way. Uh I I forget exactly when I I put my name in. I want to say it was April that first time, but I do feel slightly that um going down to five would kind of you not that responsible for people's feelings, but I do feel that by having the the higher amount of members, it does not the right word, maybe decentralize a

little bit, but there there's by having more there, you know, when people kind for lack of a better word, fall off of the thing and and and they're done. Um there there's more opportunity for the people that maybe wouldn't be as as gung-ho about it. People that are, oh, I really want to run. I really want to be a politician. I think it it can grab some of the folks that would want to be more, oh, I'd like to make a difference or something like that. Um, you know, I want to be a part of this. And for for some there's an adversarial nature of oh I don't think I can get into that. You know all these people are are you know mad power hungry up there. Not saying that we are but I I I think that some people can can feel that if if they feel that the uh competition is too great. Um so I I kind of like the aspect of the way that we currently have our staggered elections. We have four seats up then we have three seats up. I I I feel that does give a a good opportunity for folks to to get in. If if we were dropped to five, that does also um you know, do we elect everybody in the same year? You know, do we do stagger where it's three and two instead? Um that that's weeds we get down if we get to that. Um as for the mayor, I guess I'll just talk very quickly logistically about that. um you know, just adding a vote to the mayor, that would make eight. And then conversely, if we were to drop one council member to make that an odd number, uh that kind of goes back to my first statement of that that takes away a little bit of voice from from the people. So, long way of saying I kind of like it how it is and I'll just be done for now.

Very good. Thank you, Mr. Web. Can we can we jump around? Yeah, go ahead. I'm just afraid all the good comments will be taken. Okay, I'll tell you what. Go ahead, Mr. Stark. Can I go before you, David? Can I go before you, David? Thanks. Thanks. Um, because Dan Dan Dan usually has some really good singers, and I I just don't want him to steal them all. Stole your thunder.

Okay. So, um, and and and obviously Dan and I have the perspective of being on council for 10 years. Yes. You know, a long time ago. Um, so I will just say that um, we did a charter change back, you know, a long time ago and it was it wasn't brain surgery, but it was brain surgery, right? Because, uh, we had to get our town attorney, uh, Jean Kelly at the time involved. We had to get our legislator involved, our town manager involved, the mayor involved. And it was a timing thing. It was a cycle. we had to get it, you know, we had to get in the groove at a certain time or we couldn't get it in. And it, like I said, it wasn't the end of the world, but it was a a warranted thing at that time because we went from two-year terms to four-year terms. And more importantly, to save money, we changed the voting cycle to November like everybody else in the world. Right.

Well, that was the state law that we were required to do that.

It Okay. So back then we were paying a lot of money to set up the registar on May you know in May and Port Roy was too. So you know it made sense but it it took a lot of our staff time and it costs it costs money. Um so I think we're at a premium on both of those things right now. Staff time and money. Um, as 10 years of being the mayor, I voted Dwight in 10 years. So, there never was a really a problem with gridlock, right? I mean, we've never had these nights where it's just tied up, locked up, and the mayor saves the day. But if it ever does get that way, the mayor gets to save the day. Um, so if we went from seven to five, we'd still have the potential for a tie and a vote, right? Um, I as far as not having enough people to run, uh, even if they come in a week before the closing or they do a write in, we have never not had enough people to run, right? and and it's not it's just the times. It's shame on all of us, you know, for not participating more in our local government, right? And so that's always going to be an issue wherever. So, I don't think we have the time. I don't think we have the money. I'm not in favor of it. And I will tell you, uh, I didn't know what in the world it was it was going to be like being the mayor of Bowling Green, right? um until I became the mayor of Bowling Green. And I, you know, at first I'm like, huh, I'm mostly ceremonial. You know, I get to hit this wooden hammer and I get to go to ribbon cutings and I get to be the face of the town. I

get to lead a a group that are doing the heavy lifting. Uh but I that was that was a good thing. I I I enjoyed that and uh and it had been successful. for 100 years and not quite but uh so I I am I am not a I'm not for doing any of this right now. Thank you. Very good Mr. Haggamman.

No, I don't know take all the good ones. Um um I'm leaning on a side. I mean I don't I don't want to see it happen either. Um, the year that I ran for council, I was appointed first, but I ran and I think it was a year when there was three seats and it was like six people running because I know three people didn't get in and they were all on the ballot. So, it wasn't a ride in. They were there. So, I don't think we need to lower to five to from seven to or to five to three. Um, number one, I think five to three, it could be more of a power play is kind of how I see it sometimes, too, because it only takes three people instead of four people to agree on something to get something done. I think with seven people, it's a broader image. Um, it's going to be a little bit harder maybe to get something passed, but maybe it needs to be harder than easier to get in. Allow the ver mayor to vote. I mean, we've never done it in this town before, so why do we have to do it now? I don't think the mayor should have a vote. I mean, they elected the mayor. They elect the mayor with no voting right as a ceremonal head for the town to run the meetings, but not to have the power of the vote. I think if we get into that, we're going to get into a lot of I don't know how you want to say it. I think there's just going to be a lot of animosity with a lot of people because things are going to get passed that maybe shouldn't get passed or get turned down because they shouldn't get turned down just because the mayor's got an opinion one way or the other. So again, since the town's been incorporated, this is the way it's been. I don't think we need to change it. I think it's good the way it is and it is a lot of money. Valerie, I understand if we went to five, it would cut some salary off and it would help the town, but is it what how much is it going to cost us to get this all changed with staff and the lawyer and all that stuff and going through the going through the ranks that we have to do that? Is it going to cost more than what

it's at Rexipan? I don't know. But, um, I would say if it's not broke, don't try to fix it and it's working fine. Mr. when

you know generally I would say I'm I'm in agreement. I don't see any reason to necessarily change. I can see some benefits in going down to five. Um but you know like previous uh council members have stated we've always had enough people to run you know and sometimes some of us always wait till the last minute to sign up anyways because that's that's by design and you you don't want to sign up early. Um, in in terms of the mayor voting, I mean, I view that the mayor does have a vote. I mean, the mayor votes when it counts. I mean, we all cast a vote and generally we are all in agreement, but when it comes down to where we need that tiebreaker. I mean, the ultimate decision maker is the mayor. So, as far as I'm concerned, they do have that that vote when when it's needed and when it really counts. But, um, yeah, I just don't think it's the time right now with everything else we have going on just with all of the resources. Um, it may be something that maybe we ought to look at in a a year or two once we have a few other things behind us because I can see Samaritan being smaller, but like Randy said, I you know, making that vote for makes things a little more difficult, which is which can be good. So, I I just think not at this time.

Very good. Thank you, Dr. Schnol.

At this point, I don't see any benefit. I don't understand any benefit of changing the town charter to this council or the town. Um I see our current arrangement as somewhat analogous to other governments where you have a ceremonial chief of state, you have an executive and then you have the legislative. And neither one of those others vote. It's just the legislature that votes, right? Uh I see that as being advantageous in government. They found it useful elsewhere. Um, also I do not support changing from seven to five. Uh, because from my point of view, seven is a hedge against the contingencies of life. If someone or some two are out for whatever reason, with five, you'd have three people trying to make a decision. And I think seven is better representative of the people. I would, however, um, and do support the mayor having a four-year term.

Very good. Well, at this time because of uh Do you have any further comments? Yeah, again this was strictly for discussion and I'm cool with everything everyone said. I just have one caveat. The mayor, the former mayor and present mayor.

Being mayor is just not ceremonial. It's a leadership responsibility. You have involvement in policym. You're serving the community. your active participation in being effective facilitator to your council members. I find that all to be leadership qualities not ceremonial. I think it's very important and I think you cut yourself short by thinking that we are happy and we work or are functioning together whether we are seven or maybe if we were five as Dan says in the future. So I'm cool with everything that transpires. I just think it warranted discussion. Thank you. Good job.

I'm in agreement with our vice mayor. This was just we never really anticipated that anything would change, but this was something that we had to bring forth for discussion. So, at this time, um we will table this and move on to the uh next item on our agenda. And that will be going into a close session. I will need um a motion to do so and an opportunity to clear the room.

I I can read this for you, Madame Mayor. Um I I'll move that we uh go into close session pursuant to uh code 2.2-3711A. Three, discussion or consideration of the acquisition of real property for a public purpose or of the disposition of publicly held real property where discussion in an open meeting would adversely affect the bargaining position or negotiating strategy of the public body. And if I may just add to that, um, and that's just as it relates to potentially acquiring property within the town. As it relates to Say that again, I'm sorry. Acquiring property within the town. Acquiring property in the town. Okay. So, um, I have a motion on the table by Councilman Voit. Do I have second?

A second by Council Person Hagamman. Um, any discussion? All in favor? Raise your right hand. Motion carries unanimously. We will now go to close session. We will have a fivem minute recess while we clear town hall. Thank you.

return to open session and certify by roll call vote that only the items identified in the motion for close session were discussed and that those items are lawfully exempted from the Freformation Act. I'll make that motion. Did you? Yeah. Just needs a second. A second. I'll second it. Second by um Mr. Haggamman. Any more discussion? Okay. Roll call. Miss Davis, I certify. Mr. Voit, I certify. Dr. Chanel, I certify. Vice Mayor Coyle, I certify. Mr. Stor, and Mr. Hayman,

we come out. Thank you. Bye. let her know she can come in. Okay, we are now in open session. Um, we have no action to take at this time. We are going to move everything to next Thursday's council meeting. I would like uh to ask for a motion to adjurnn. I'll make the motion to journ a meeting this afternoon or this morning. I have a motion from Councilman Hagman and do I have a second from Miss Davis? Any discussion?

All in favor, raise your right hand. I have five of our council persons voted to adjourn. We are adjourned. Thank you. Drawing a blank.