Master Plan Citizen Oversight Group - 2026 - Regular Meeting

Hey Rob, you guys ready? Yes. Okay. Want to welcome everybody to our meeting. Uh, thanks for coming out on a cold night and I very much want to tell you we all appreciate the extra time and effort for this other meeting to play a little bit of catchup. So, thank you in advance. Um Melanie, would you please do the roll call here

uh member Avery? Um, member Baker, member Batty, member Boomer Schel, member Borne, member Clark, happy to be here. She's here. [gasps] Member Clayton here. Here via Zoom. Uh, member Coleman. Member Deppler here. Member H. Member Hellfrey. Uh, member Hman. Member Rubis here.

Member Jackson here. Member Con. Council member McCutchen here. Uh, member Mets, member Pick here. Council member Rambo here. Member Ren, member Shiken, and we have a quorum.

Thank you very much. At this time, would you all please join me in the pledge of allegiance? Pledge allegiance to the flag of God and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Approval of the minutes from last month. Any comments, recommendations to accept and our changes, please. Teresa, you second.

I'll second. Okay. All in favor? I I Thank you. Mr. Joe.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, members of the group, I'd like to add my thanks um that Mr. Routen provided at the start of the meeting for your attendance tonight. Obviously, I say it often, without you here, we can't do what we need to do, and what we're doing is very important to the city. I reemphasize always to a lot of people the master plan was the first document the incorporators tackled after they became part of the city and they worked very hard on it for seven months and as I've told you before at many of our meetings I think we're doing a great job the content that we've created the changes that we've made I think are very much in sync with what's going on in Wildwood the region as well as across the state and country so thank you very much. Um, just to give you a couple of housekeeping items. Um, first, we're back in the council chambers. Uh, last night we had a meeting in the community room and we had some problems with the microphone system. Um, we did have a tech in today. I think it's fixed, but just to be on the safe side, we came back here. I get the impression most people like the community room and so we'll always try to lean that way but we are being technologydriven so to speak. So I appreciate your flexibility. I understand the chairs are much more comfortable in here as well. So um there are snacks on the table at the entry into the chambers. Um please help yourself. Um, don't be bashful if you as we go through the the rest of the policies or start the policies in the open space and recreation element and then jump into the economic development element. Please feel free. And then finally, again, um, just want to thank you for your participation. Um, promised you, I think back in January of last

year, as I've mentioned, a a 12-month run. We've been so successful, they've held us over, and so we're going for additional months. So, thanks again. So, I guess I'll start with an apology. One of the things you think is, okay, I'm going to schedule two meetings if you all accommodate them. But having a meeting on January 21st and then following up with one a week later means that we all didn't have time to update the goals and objectives in the open space and recreation element. So, you did not get a clean copy, so to speak. Um, our attention was focused on getting you the policies back up for the open space and recreation element and then getting you the economic development element, which is the first time you've seen that relative to our process. So, my apologies. Um, by the time we get to the February meeting on the 10th, you'll have the updated open space and then any of the progress we make on the economic development as well. And then as we complete the economic development element, we'll have the six of them under our belt, so to speak. So that's the first thing. My apologies. Mr. Brown, who's on Zoom tonight, and I had a conversation after our last Wednesday's meeting, January 21st, and they are working on those definitions and road classifications that were discussed at our last meeting and requested. We thought we might be able to rush them through, but then we thought, let's do it, right? Because if they're satisfactory to you, they'll become part of the landscape here at the city of Pablo. So, they are being prepared and we'll have them for you at the February 10th meeting um when we get

back together. Um the mapping, I'll apologize about that. Um again, we wanted to get it out as quickly as we could. There was a couple of glitches on my end. We've got you a couple of maps. Um I think we can get you probably a better road map as I think of it now. um Dustin Howard who works in our department of public works um has created along with some assistance from Mr. Newberry kind of a word wordenberg map. So it's a single sheet and it has the cross references the grid to the street names and etc. So we'll try to get you something that maybe is a little easier to digest in terms of the streets. Remember Mr. Brown likes to tell folks, we have almost 360 miles of centerline roads that are under public maintenance. You have a whole lot of private streets and then if you take into account all the things that go through our parks, there's a lot out there to look at. So, the mapping for the purposes of tonight is what we got you. Um, so you could have a reference point, but we'll build on that and get you something better as we go along. As I mentioned, we'll start with the policies and the open space and recreation element and then we are at a good starting point. We'll begin the economic development element and I'll explain a couple of things there. So, timing wise at our last meeting we were able to stop pretty much after the goals and objectives. So we'll start with policy one under open space and recreation. Encourage the p purchase or donation of additional land for regional parks through a variety of traditional and innovative programs. Um again this is focused more so on those properties not owned by the city but again remember here it was part of the original master

plan. What the incorporators emphasized during much of the preparation in terms of the vote for the incorporation was St. Louis County wasn't protecting the boundaries of the state and county parks. They were letting development encroach right up to the boundary lines. And so the thought was we need to protect those. And obviously a majority of the residents in the unincorporated area thought as well. And so we have a study. So policy one. Um policy two. Um the department in this particular instance would note that um we had a a goal of adding a neighborhood park to each ward. We've kind of done that to a certain degree, but there are several wards that do not have a neighborhood park at this time. It's shown as a strikeout um because as you know we've um we've kind of reached the point where we're looking at revenues and expenditures and the trends aren't necessarily positive. So the department has basically followed what the strategic plan city council approved back in 2021 for a 5-year window. and that's focus resources and available funding on maintaining existing city of Wildwood parks and trails facilities while foregoing any new park development for the near term until a dedicated funding source can be developed for these purposes. And as you know, we talked a great deal at our last meeting about the parks and stormwater sales tax and the potential there. But again, we're kind of um reigning in on the new facilities and focusing on

ensuring that our existing facilities are maintained at the highest level. And where there is reasonable connections like a sidewalk or a trail, we do those so that everybody can get everywhere um not necessarily in a vehicle. Policy three, pursue funding and financing options and mechanisms for the acquisition of park and recreational facilities for Wildwood residents, visitors, and guests. Again, parks and storm water sales tax was the one that um was identified by multiple different volunteer committees, groups um and it is an option that's available out there. Um there was an estimate that was asked for last time and actually it could be as great as $3 million a year depending on the sales tax revenue that's generated by the city. So obviously would change the complexion of what we do the future of parks and recreation open spaces and wildwood. Uh number four uh encourage diversity and and there is a striketh through so I'll read what the department has identified. Encourage diversity when improvements are considered within existing park facilities to be funded and built so that they complement other facilities situated within the city and surrounding communities. design of these cavities should allow for the expansion and growth for and growth as demand uh changes. Um it used to say encourage diversity um the the type of park facilities. Um again I'm trying to being away from new to existing and here again when we consider improvements for existing for existing facilities obviously we want to

focus there not elsewhere. Number five define prioritize. Sure. Well, we're leading. We are going toward that. As you know, we've talked a great deal about the Americans with Disability Act requirements. We've talked about all inclusiveness. We've talked about making things accessible to all populations. Um, in this particular instance, we really started when that the diversity component when we were asked about a recreation center and we noted that or I should say a swimming pool. We noted that like Chesterfield, Baldwin, Ellisville all have outdoor pools. Would it be more um feasible from an economic standpoint if we struck partnerships with them versus repeating or replicating a facility here? Um and so we've done that over the years. This will be the first year in many that we won't have that partnership due to budget constraints. But so instead of building what everybody else has, the idea was is do things that are unique to Wildwood that our residents have identified as a priority and that'll bring people here because that we have we have something no one else does. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Thank you. I'm totally confused. So, are are you just going to go down and read um are you reading the goals and are you including the commentary and then are we going to come back and recommend changes? I'm not sure what we're doing. Um I started with the policies. We did the goals and objectives at the last meeting. So, the presentation started with one. You can interrupt me anytime. Um, I I just kept going because there was no questions, but Chief Loyal asked one. So, however you want to do it, it's at the chair's discussion.

Okay. So, so I guess I didn't catch this last time, but on goals number two, um, it says burden fiscal constraints set forth by city council. Should we not leave city council out because we've got it the strategic plan and the five-year capital plan improvements. So, should we leave city council out? It can certainly be struck. Um I think it was from the department's I think from the department's perspective, the city council um controls the funding and they have clearly stated in the strategic plan starting in 2021 and more recently that no new parks. And so I just want to make sure that there's an understanding that that's coming from the leadership of our elect we can strike it.

Well, I know last time we talked about, you know, we're making a plan for the next 10 years. And it doesn't have to be necessarily what should not be what city council wants. It's what the group wants and what the residents want. That's why I was asking about taking out council. Well, just from the perspective, there has to be some guiding document or guiding vision, so to speak. Um, otherwise to me, it's like it's unrealistic and hard to achieve. If we say tell us what you want and as you've mentioned a recreation center, we have a city council right now that's saying there's a moratorum on new parks for 5 years. So I

I understand what you're saying, but I mean we're making a plan for the next 10 years. So I don't I don't think what city council wants at this point in time is relevant as the master plan that we're coming up with. I could be the only one that feels that way, but we're the ones setting the plan for the next 10 years. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Yeah, Deborah. Deborah, I think it's not so much that they're driving. I think they're included because they're part of the process and they're a very big part of the process. We're part of the process and what we say and what our constituents say is very much important, but then they're part of the process also. So, working together, we're going to make it work. So, including them, I think they belong. personal opinion. Okay.

Well, it certainly could be as easily as with prudent fiscal constraints as described in the adopted strategic plan and five-year capital improvements plan. Those are both documents the city council um adopts uh as part of the fiscal and year budgeting process. So, we don't need to necessarily call them out, but they we could retain them the documents that set forth projects for the future. Well, that I mean that's what everybody else wants. I mean,

I I I tend I tend to agree with her. The um they came up with this five-year strategic plan and capital improvement plan. And I I think at at the time that it was adopted, it it was there were some fiscal restraints that they that they were trying to address. I I think we leave them out of it and put what we want because they're going to get two bites at the apple. They're going to get it when we approve the plan and send it on to them. And then the second if they have a problem with this particular thing when an issue arises they can rule on it as such. But I think [snorts] you know we say needs preferences with prudent fiscal constraints.

Do we need to vote on that? Mr. Chair, if Mr. Rubis would like to make a motion to effect and then there's a second. We could do a voice vote and and know if it's if it stays or go. If it stays or goes. I'll make a motion that we end the uh verbiage after constraints. I'll second it. All in favor? I

we will make the accommodation. Thank you. Thank you. Can I can I jump in real quickly here too and just make the request that when people speak that they use the uh microphones because it's sometimes kind of hard to hear the conversation. Sorry, Cindy.

Oh, no you did. It was before you. But I I appreciate what you shared. So again, I apologize if I was going through the list the policies too quick. Certainly if there's any conversation regarding any of the ones I've covered to date, Cher Chief Loyal has asked one. Um it's an open dialogue. I just like I say until you stop me, I'll keep going and if you stop me, I'll stop. So please, we want to hear from you is basically what I'm saying. That's It's critical. We won't be shy if you want.

Um, so we talked about diversity and maybe there is a better word um in terms of what what the intent of that policy was. Again, it was really about, you know, does does every community west of Clarkson Road need this? and then we're but can we give diversity can we give something different to our residents that they've said is important to them and I think the best example and then I'll conclude is Bluff View Park a park we lease from St. Louis County we created a partnership with Gateway Off-Road Cyclist and now it's one of the few um parks that accommodate mountain bikers and they swarm to it at all times of the year. So again, we've created a a facility that fit not only our local needs but also the region itself.

Would variety work or uniqueness or Yeah, I have a much better understanding what you're trying to accomplish once you explained it.

I'll I'll put those in and you can tell me which one you prefer. Um number five um define prioritize and select pal potential locations for acquisition or protection by other means of scenic vistas, pristine woodlands, diverse water features, prime agricultural lands and properties who acquis acquisition with further such preservation within the city of Wildwood. So I don't want you to think I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. We have fiscal constraints. We have a strategic plan, a capital improvements plan, and um a moratorum. This talks more about the tools we could use as part of our development processes to protect these these features, these woodlands, these pristine pristine woodlands, diverse water features. And so all of this isn't necessarily about purchasing and protecting through ownership. This is more about the regulation component and there's mixed there there's mixed reviews on this. Um obviously you've driven by the new development called the reserve McKelby homes. It's in town center. Um it's 115 lots on 50 acres but they developed it in a very different way than you see elsewhere in the majority of Wildwood. And so I know Dr. Rambo doesn't think much of it and he made that clear to me at another meeting last week. But again, we do have tools. When we use the tools, they're usually very effective in town center. Some of those tools aren't applicable for the reasons I've described in past, but that's all that's the tools within this maybe within this goal or perhaps later. Is there a way does the

city have a way to accommodate or facilitate the donation of these properties? So if I'm a massive land owner like Councilman Rambo out in the rural area and decide that that's my goal is to make facilitate the transfer. Is there a process in place that allows that?

Very much so. Um Barry in farmal in the first years of the city um St. County had purchased property with federal monies down in the Glenco area after the 1993 flood. Their vision was not to have neighborhood parks anymore to focus more on the larger facilities and so they basically transferred ownership to us of them. Um I use another example, anniversary park that was a donation from the Shaw family, Tom Senior, Tom Jr. and John and Kathy. So, anniversary park is actually 14 acres. We use about an acre and a half of it. The rest is floodplane and parts of Cox Creek. So, we have that mechanism. Um, in most instances over the last, I'd say 10 years. The properties that we've added have all been through purchase, but generally speaking, the owners of the property have been very reasonable in the cost because they know that obviously it has limited potential for development in some instances because it is flood pointer. It has this slope, but it has high value us because it has continuous or joining our other facilities.

Do you also have the ability to deny that or refuse it? You know, you think of a scenario where some Okay, we found something really bad. Let's give this to the city.

Yeah, there's uh and uh the best example of that may be um if you're not familiar the Streker Forest site, which is up by the Bliss property. There's been conversations over the years, why don't we just donate it to the city and make it a park? And I tell people don't don't I have been told [laughter] we we can't hear the conversation online.

I'm very sorry. Yeah. uh we're it was flippant anyway. So um but the answer is yes, there's there's fish in that pond, but the the um spillway system demands stabilization like right now and we have decided not to move forward with the park per se. I think we could do a great job with just putting in some trails and getting volunteer labor and so on and so forth and build the pavilions and restrooms later, but um the fact is we got to figure out how to spend a little bit of money on it or we're going to lose the pond and then and that's our only that's Wildwood's only water feature as I understand it. So that's important. [clears throat]

The other thing is what's the status of of with as far as Wildwood's concerned on Belleview Park? Well, we still have the lease agreement with St. Los County. If you're not familiar, there's a property called Belleview Farms. It's near the Sherman community at the end of St. Paul Road at Hunt Street. It's 99 acres. Uh we've had the lease with St. Louis County for probably 15 plus years, I'm kind of guessing, but um we maintain it. We have a volunteer group um Friends of Belleview. They do they have been working on the restoration of the natural landscape. Um as many properties with an ownership on location or active. A lot of invasives just a lot of Johnson grasses, honeysuckle, just whole variety of things. That group they have um honeysuckle hacks. They do great work down there. We had a burn down there recently on the prairie. We're restoring about six acres to prairie. We're in our third year of that. The goal is to open it to just pass trail use. Um but again with the struggle we're having with the fiscal constraints, I just don't have a time frame for it. Let me find it first and then I'll go from there. Number two on page three.

the parks like Point Park and Belby Farms and Green Pines. They're in the process already. So, they're not really new. They're just not they're what? They're just going to be left hanging out there. I mean, so is there some way we can word that? So, it's a little different than it's not ever going to happen. Yeah. We also need to cover that 80 acres that we have the opportunity on as well. So, and she's right that we we're not that doesn't this that

well I'm I'm enunciating what I think city council collectively has said is that um all of our funding should go to maintenance components of existing facilities. um how you define what maintenance in the context of existing facilities. That's a great opportunity for this group to do and certainly that can be brought forward then to the planning and zoning commission and city council. Um, I think again we provided you early on both the 2026 I think capital improvement plan and then the five-year capital excuse me the capital improvement program and then the five-year capital improvement plan this year other than trail resurfacing and phase two of village green which is the all-inclusive playground there is no other additional projects period. Um, so

but what

I'm just going to jump in real quick because I've had my hand up, but kind of about the same conversation. I mean, I I feel like the master plan needs to be more of an aspirational kind of document. And I do understand the constraints of budget in this current time frame, but I kind of agree with Deb that, you know, instead of saying while foregoing any new park development, I mean, we could have something in here more about pri prioritizing with the existing budget or something like that. I I don't want it to come off as negative to me as it sounds here. like it's never going to be a chance in the next 10 years that we could, you know, maybe change the direction of, you know, where our budget's going. I mean, I I completely understand the, you know, 5-year plan, but to me, this kind of takes out any potential, you know, revisiting of the priorities by the city council in the future. And well, I mean, you guys are really good about coming up with grants where we just going to say sorry because we can't finish parks up. I mean, I to me this is a guiding thing. You know, I'll be happy to argue this city council.

Thank you, ma'am. And um obviously I think if you pulled the four of us, we'd love to see this document be as Miss Depp described aspirational. Here's where we want to go. Not what we not what we know in the snapshot of this current moment. But I I got to be cognizant that a committee, a standing committee of eight of the 16 council members said there's a moratorum of five years. That'll go to city council on February 9th. Um, so I know you're caught between a rock and a hard place. So

I understand that, Teresa. Yeah. Well, the the moratorum is for five years. This is for 10 years. Yeah. And so, um you know, I have to agree with what is being said that this um this particular one uh policy number two it sounds like it's just talking about the moratorium. So maybe if we do change it and and leave it and add something like um uh bar moratoriums or um funding restraints or whatever.

How how about focusing on priming the pump? as budgetary constraints allow. So, and I'm not necessarily defending the department or the author of this particular disaster, which is policy too, but stepping back for five years isn't going to make the situation better in year six. The only thing that's going to happen now is everything is going to get more expensive and available lands that we possibly could have been involved in are going to go into the development cycle or be purchased by somebody that doesn't have the same, let's say, community spirit that we've experienced in the past. So, I'll be glad to make this aspirational. I'll be glad to make it that as you've described it something that looks forward and says let's do this and prioritize those pro those projects that we see in that 10-year window that should be done. But um putting the brakes on something and then sitting for five years, think about it in the perspective of your home. Not doing maintenance to your home for 5 years, it just doesn't work out well. And um and

just to put exclamation point of what you just said, it's like um the the parks and and looking standing back and seeing that we were a little behind on maybe the um keeping up with the disabilities and um providing for but stepping back and asking people what is it you need? And then we saw that and then you just ran with the um all-incclusive park which is a great thing. Yeah, we don't have ideas. Those will be easy to fund.

So, uh we'll rewrite this based upon tonight's conversation. Um but I'll try to manage it in the in those guard rails of you know this is what we're looking at for the period of 10 years not just this year two years or five years. Yeah, I if I could suggest play up to the maximum extent possible the opportunity cost issue that we've been talking about because it's really important. Like you said, prices go up, we miss opportunities, we may miss out on this 80 acre uh parcel at a just rock bottom park and basement price and and some other things as well. So, um anyway, thanks. Thank you. You know, sometimes when you're in the trenches and everybody's telling you, you're spending too much money here, you're spending too much money there, and you hear from the residents, it's a this is good stuff. It's nice. So, thank you. Um, let's see. uh talked about policy five, just the tools of the development process that we have available to us to basically set aside public space, sometimes privately held, but within the context of a subdivision, a residential subdivision or commercial development. We also have those tools that require development to build facilities for the public. And so certainly we do a lot I think as a community that's all of us to ensure that development occurs there is a true community benefit and I may add that in there if there's no objection something akin to that. Um, policy six, ensure all efforts relating to parks and recreation planning in the city of Wildwood complement adhere to the goals of the

master plan, standards and guidelines of the town center plans, requirements of the city charter charter and related municipal goals. So in lay person's terms, if you expect it of others, you should do it yourself. And that's the rule that we followed. um our city administrator, our director of public works, and the department of planning and parks. We expect the same out of us as we do as anyone else, whether it's a private residents building something or a developer building 115 lots on a 50 acre track in the land. Um, number seven, initiate and implement partnerships with other entities provi to provide educational, recreational, and community outreach programs to residents, visitors, guests of the city of Wildwood. And so before you, we have three individuals that just recently participated in outreach with Rockwood School District. Um, we have a relationship with Great Rivers Greenway through um, our staff here. We have a relationship with the Marramac River Recreation Association. Those partnerships, I think, are the strength of the community and to the defense of our city council last night. We had a request from Castlewood State Park, the park superintendent to help with the resurfacing of Al Foster Trail. They probably could do 90% of it, but they fell short about 10%. Our city council uh committee concurred and we're going to help them. We're going to buy some more material, have it hauled in place, and then park staff from MDNR is going to be able to do the entire two and a half milestone. So, very good. So partnerships and I

think um between public works administration and planning. Thank you. Yeah. Would it um would you consider adding uh on to that disabilities and maybe marketing? And also um would it be good to put in there not just residents, visitors and guests but staff and elected officials?

Certainly if there's no if there are any comments from the other group members but I think those are very good additions if we're discussing additions since I see number eight is being struck out potentially. I mean, if we could add, you know, educational, cultural, recreational, you know, just to have that as another aspirational goal since, you know, some of the arts and cultural events were great in the past and, you know, just with other partnerships, maybe we could still retain some of them.

Certainly, I'd be very much glad to do that if the group concurs. Well, we'll make some changes to policy 7 based upon the um the Yes, Miss just to um also agree with that the um sometimes um some things that we do could be uh not a no cost and some things could be beneficial costwise. Um, I was just thinking about the reorganizing with the plan air event and that actually is going to cut the cost but it's an arts project. What isn't

and last for some of you we we've for the past 11 years we've conducted a plane air event uh the first Saturday in May generally um it's a event where we invite artists and photographers to basically create art photography in an eight hour period and then it's a jured event and there's awards that are sponsored by B&B theater. Um, it's an expensive event. We generally have around 50 participants. So, as of last night, we're actually going to kind of roll that into our Route 66 100th anniversary and the 250th birthday of the United States and then promote it before Celebrate Wildwood and then have the the results of our photographers, our artists there at the event, Celebrate Wildwood, and have them vote on what they think is best in show, etc. and then we display it here at city hall for a period of time and offer it for sale through the artist or photographer. I think Miss Clark's point is sometimes um a little a little a little bit of hardship makes you think about a better way to do things and I think we're going to come up with something and I really like the aspect Miss Keith they're working very hardgo and some of the businesses participating in our week 66 anniversary and us complimenting the businesses in their efforts and I think this might be one of them where we can come come not ahead. So, thank you, Miss Clark.

And the last policy is the one that the department is recommending to be removed. Um, for many years, we had a robust program. We had the community college displaying art and sculpture here at city hall as well as they did it at many of our restaurants and community facilities. Uh, we had um sculpture on the move where we had sculptures here. um city hall, one by the community garden, one out front. Um and then we were doing the plane air events and a couple of other smaller things to encourage um children to participate in art and um and photography. Um there was a period of time of approximately years where that all came under scrutiny and for the most part last night with the plane air vet being changed, that's the last of them. So, I don't know if we need to keep it in the master plan based upon the past eight years, but certainly am open to suggestions.

Excuse me. Stay all those brownies back there. I I guess they're good.

I hate to see us strike it as though we wouldn't be receptive to some revision continuation of facilitating or encouraging partnership for the arts. um even if it's evolved to where what we had done previously is now needs to take a new shape or whatever and it's not it looks like in the number eight in its present form doesn't cost us anything now if we do something it may cost us something but I would hate to allow someone else to say oh we don't do that anymore it's been eliminated as opposed to putting forth the effort to make it so we could do it just my thoughts I think it's easy if cross it out and it's easy to say we don't do that anymore. Whereas I think that's a very reasonable statement. Um, but again, I think the responsibility of the department to you is to basically tell you what's happening now and how we got there over the course of x amount of years before today. And so if that's not good and you think as we've talked this document should be somewhat aspirational too then we can add something that captures the comments you all provide relative to any of the goals objectives or policies.

Yeah it just I mean you can consider combining it with number seven. And I think that was uh Cindy's point. Uh but I I really hate to slam the door um as has already been said on um you know potentially free or really inexpensive um things to enrich the the community and and and the the the program with the community college. That was great. It was, you know, there were cool pictures in there all the time and um things like that. They don't really cost much. And you know I if we leave the door open every year we can call the community college and say hey you want to share some art if nothing else it just makes sense to leave it in there. So

I suppose yeah

well um and just to kind of give you a current example. So maybe I took again more of a draconian approach to this particular one because I've watched it be pulled apart pulled apart over the course of eight plus years. There is a display of of photographs of different birds from Wildwood area as well as elsewhere. That's a gentleman that's participated in our plane air event for many years. Um he always does birds photographs. um he's been a winner of honorable mention and um not best ined show but I think second um runner up and so he offered to basically provide that display out there and we jumped at the opportunity to add some color to the atrium area as you come in the city so we can do things like that and I think those are positives but you're here to tell us if you think the same

you know There's [clears throat] a lot of talented artists in in Wildwood. In fact, I think we'd probably draw a lot of them with a diverse uh ecosystem we have. How robust is art sales like in from city hall here? I mean, I see some beautiful photographs, uh, you know, paintings and things like that. Well, what we've done over the years, as you know, we used to send a calendar to all of our residents and technology kind of doomed that with everybody having a smartphone and calendar that that they can carry. So, the calendar allowed us to basically hold a photography contest and we would do we would accept photographs from our residents of Wildwood. We would then have a public vote. And we would have a juror panel look at what the public identified as the pro the best and those would be the photos that would go along with the calendar. We kept the photo contest going and all a lot of what you see on our website. What else, Travis? We

use them in the on the website um on the kind of the banner uh when you go to the homepage uh the e- newswsletter. We uh add a new photo every month. Um, and we use them pretty liberally on the social media as well.

Well, I what I was thinking is though how robust is the the selling of them? I mean, if people felt like there would be some, you know, return on their efforts. Uh, I think that would encourage the current display. There is no pricing, but after each plane air event, which is usually again the first part of May, we hang the art and photography. There's a price and we sell from city hall for the artists. And I wouldn't say we sell a great number of them, but we do sell some of them. And um you know, we have a a children's portion as well in the plane air. The parents always seem to like to buy those.

Yes. What What about the public spaces in city hall just being essentially a gallery or for a set amount of time? There's, as Jim mentioned, there's a lot of talent in while what it's scheduled to you can display stuff for a month and I could do my Plato images. I mean, I'm just brainstorming. I will say that many of our walls are blank. They are a pale white color.

Have Have we made any effort to solicit that? I mean it I I'm just again veterans. Um outside city hall, outside the council chamber, there's a hallway and we've been talking about honoring veterans there. Um, we talked originally about doing some type of memorial in one of our parks. I'm gonna let Miss Ripto take it from here. She's been the um, primary person working. Rob,

thank you. Um, yeah. Yeah. So, we uh we have noted that, you know, this hallway is just a long blank hallway and we had um proposed doing some sort of uh veterans memorial wall and having that kind of veteran signage and having um the ability of, you know, putting up our veterans names on there and continuing to add to it. Um, again with budget constraints, it kind of it was wellreceived, but it's just, you know, more money and so a lot of it is trying to find something that fits into a cost effective.

Thank you, ma'am. I [snorts] think and an alternative to expenditures for art, the mayoral proclamations are essentially free and if we can get somebody on the hook for or some a few people on the hook and then do the vote and it's a big deal and they want a a proclamation from the city of Wildwood and they get to, you know, cuz artists work for pats on the back, a lot of them, you know, and it's unfortunate that but that's the reality. I just think there's a lot there that we could do um if we put in it's probably some staff time, but it doesn't seem like it'd be excessive. So anyway, thank you Teresa and then Vicki. And if we could even make money with this because we could do something like um I remember when my son Marcus went to Bel Reef School, they have a wall that they did uh tiles for smiles and or smiles for tiles. I can't remember what it was, but um you would go in like at at the events that we have our concerts or celebrate and the little place where you paint your little tile and then um somebody donates to make it in their kiln and then you put it up on a wall. And so they've got a whole wall at the school that is with these tiles that all of the kids have made. So like all the grandparents and all want to stop by the school and see their kids tiles and it's um it's beautiful.

Well certainly we've talked about this uh more so at committee and council level is you know we have a lot of programs where we accommodate seniors. We have early childhood recreation programming for two to five year olds. We have a lot of We used to have a lot of runs, walks, hikes, and things like that where we got a diversity, but we've kind of always missed the the grade schoolers, middle schoolers, and that. So maybe an art art approach would be a good good step in that direction,

right? And they they sell these tiles for like $15 to the person who's going to paint it. And so, of course, that tile doesn't cost that much, and it's a money-making project. Thank you, Vicki. So, first of all, I apologize for being late and so I kind of came in a little bit on the end of this, but as I'm reading this, it says that St. Louis Community College doesn't share their art with us anymore. And did I did I miss you say why they don't do that anymore?

I don't have a reason per se. Um the program started when there was an instructor there named Mark Weber and um he created a for the most part very successful program that brought a diversity of students both young and old and they did great work and the students produced a lot of art and they were looking to display it. U I think Mr. Weber retired. Um, it continued on for a bit, but after the last showing, it's been at least I think a year or two since we've had any display.

So, it's them not connect collecting. I mean, not what's the word I'm looking for? Them not reaching out to us. Uh, I I know that you say that you want to remove this, but I just kind of feel like uh there's so many opportunities and and uh I think that we ought to at least have something in there. We've got that Wildwood Green Arts, right? We've got um the plain air thing. Like Jim said, we have a lot of talented artists. I know that at the community college they have some great artists. There's a great artist named Vicky Hefty. And I know because people always ask me if that's me. She does great cows. I just um so I hate to shut the door on something like that. I think that Mr. Ramos said the same thing. if there's a way that we can leave something in there that maybe right now this isn't happening but at some point point in time it might and I also am aware that if if it happens that you all have to pretty much do the work and you're spread awfully thin. I do understand that. So,

but some of these are labors alone. So, let's look at it from the perspective is it good for the community and then we'll figure it out from staffing.

Okay. Thanks. Since we're talking ideas, uh there's a Wildwood residence that had a business in Eureka called Art Dog. My wife and her friends, it was a self-sustaining business and they'd go in, they teach, the artist would teach people how to paint and get things set up for them. The only reason she stepped away is because I think her husband told me her knee, she just could not do it anymore. But it was self- sustaining. They're Wildwood residents. maybe she could teach how to get something and have something at city hall. But my wife and her friends would uh go and several people would go and they would paint their pets. They would had different different things that they did. But since we have so many artists, you have a different artist every every month and have people could come in. You have one for kids or whatever. I'm just since we're whiteboarding here, you've got someone here that can teach you how to do it. And maybe it's maybe you get charge enough money just to keep it going or maybe it's donate. I don't know.

But I'm just saying you got someone that could teach how to how to set it up and how to do it. It was Anyway, that's it. That's where Jim something like that. You might be able to partner with the YMCA or something and have art cla I maybe they have art classes now. I mean they got Rebecca

I'm not sure if this is on. Can you guys hear me? Okay, great. the the YMCA does have art classes and what's really great is they're looking to expand their adaptive programs and they currently have a teacher at the Y that teaches an adaptive art class. I actually went a couple of weeks ago. So, that would be really um a wonderful opportunity to integrate some adaptive programs that are offered.

What is an adaptive art program? I'm sorry, I don't know. Sorry. They have people with disabilities. Um, and the teacher, it's it's really amazing. And they're all at different levels. And the class that I had the privilege of sitting in on, they were doing Christmas trees. And they had um young adults from, you know, in wheelchairs to um young persons with um Down syndrome. So, it was really cool.

Yes. I would like to make a motion that number eight be retained but revised perhaps reflecting our discussions this evening to perhaps modernize it for the uh forthcoming plan. Second. All in favor? I I I motion passes. Thank you. As you can see, we reached policy 8, which is the last that is in the current master plan. The department did not add any new policies, so this is the time.

Yeah, bro. So, we talked about the um recreation center, but I didn't see it in anywhere. Is that because you just didn't have time? No, actually I was hoping you bring it up so we could discuss it and see if it's included or not. Okay. Uh obviously from my perspective, I'm getting rid of arts uh arts and culture, adding a recreation center at a a $12 million cost. I think that ought to come from somebody else.

Okay, I'll I'll be happy. Um, a I mean there's there's a couple reasons I think we should have a recreation center, but if you know notice the teens and the twins, they're kind of hanging around up here at one is not really safe. Um, I think we try to do something for all age groups. That's an age group that we're missing. Um, I think would also be an economic development driver. um you the kids could go in there, they could do, you know, volleyball, whatever. They could have um a meeting room there. The junior college and um the schools will not let you use their meeting rooms anymore for anything. So, that would be a good place to have a meeting room. We don't have room up here. Um there we could maybe even ask somebody like Taco Bell or something like that if they could put a kiosk kiosk in there. Um, we could do our child development information in there. We could do our senior programming in there. And yes, I I know it's a lot of money, but I think it could be a lot of things. And I think it would be um educational. I think it we would be beneficial to our young people and even our older people. Um, and yes, it would cost a a lot. And yes, we would have to maybe get ground somewhere for it. And I'm not saying let's do it next fiscal year, but I think it's something that we can aspire to. Um, and there's all different kinds of recreational things we could put in there. I mean, even at one point outside, we could do a roller rink, which there's not one close by. Um, so I I think it get really creative, but I think it would be beneficial to everyone in the city of Wildwood. And um, if anybody has any questions on my thoughts, that's fine. or jump in.

Uh, a project such as these, and I'm somewhat familiar with public pro, would it be generally speaking a bond event and then hopefully self- sustaining through user fees, that kind of thing? because I mean and granted we don't I know it's a big deal that we don't have a property tax but I know Ball and I don't want to use other things but you see other places that have two pools a golf course and and so I so it essentially be there' be a bond proposal and the necessary funding with that which would be generally a tax with the intent hopefully is that its operation would sustain its operation because that's always it's it's easy to build something but you have to keep going. So when we this is years ago, 2006 time frame, we had a group of volunteers u that included Darren Dunl who at the time was the director of parks and recreation at Chesterfield and John Hoffman who was the facilities manager at the city of Baldwin. and we talked about a recreation center and both of them kind of explained that exactly what you said. It was easy to get it built so to speak because they both I think the primarily used bond issues for many of their facilities, their larger facilities. They said it's a devil to maintain it because it requires constant maintenance. So at that time we were a young community only 10 years old. So, I'm not saying it would it would it wouldn't fit many of the needs of our community residents from a from one to 90, but I've always heard it's just an expensive proposition.

Rebecca Unity Garden would be amazing to be able to add to it, but we already have an amazing facility. And if we're looking at cost, I think collaborating with the current YMCA might be a viable option to get something done sooner rather than later.

And in 2006, we looked at that. In fact, the executive director of this particular BL branch, the Wildwood Family YMCA, Mike Avasto, came and presented. Uh they were seeking a approximately a million dollars from the city in some fashion or form. Um we actually included it in the report. It got pulled out by city council and the example they used is Maryland Heights and the YMCA sheriff facility as I recall or something kind of to that. At least that's the one they referenced though.

This is many years ago. So, um, but certainly we've looked at it. Um, we can certainly go back if you want to make it something a kid. We have the partnership policy. We could look at it that from that perspective. What if we creatively focus on costneutral activities? And I use the plane our exempt as an example. We're going to possibly have an arch and we end up giving prizes, but it also costs money to do all of that. But we could do the same event, possibly charge and measure it. Not saying it would work, but we could. And then we could also take a portion of the winnings and split it with the city to cover our costs. We don't want to get rich, but we can do activities that cost share that bring two parties together. Yeah.

You know, I I think your idea is good in that it allows for those small operations to continue and be facilitated, but I would agree with Deborah and I think we need to have a line item. In the survey we took at the beginning of this process, we had numerous people indicate to us that they needed some a central gathering facility. So I think we should make it a one of our objectives too. And if it requires taxes, which everything does, then that's what we put before the I mean that's they require funding. They require you

Yeah. How exactly how bad do you want it? and that but if we don't trust me if we if we say we're going to include it in this other sharing thing it will never get talked about it but I think it needs to be an individual line item that within 10 years we should have in place or close to in place a recreational facility for the citizens of Wildwood investigation the other The other half is my age. [laughter]

Otherwise, I don't think that's the real goal of a SP is the dream. So, I would make a motion that we include within our whether it be goals, objectives, or policies to facilitate a community recreation center. And I don't know what the form of it's going to be or whatever. Um, for the citizens of Wildwood, it would be new five. Okay. If it if the motion is approved, if if the motion is seconded and approved, we'll figure out where it goes. Okay. Let's have a little bit more discussion. April,

I just had a few questions on clarification. In my mind when I think rec center, I am thinking, you know, like what Eureka has, what Maryland High Test, it is a lot of what the YMCA has, the pools, the gyms, um the uh the programs. What am I thinking of like the yoga classes and the you know, all those kind of coordinated things. So, I guess my one my first question would be what specifically is it different that we're looking for? Or is it going to be a a recreation center that's going to include those same things or are you looking for different things? Is it going to or is it are you looking for more of a facility that has lots of activities? Like I'm blanking on the name of it, but what's the little the social place down the road in Melisville that's got all the different activities? Dogwood social. Um so I just like clarification on what it is you guys are actually what are are we talking about a traditional recreation center with a pool and a gym and all the classes? And if so, um, to your point about getting the kids out of the town center and giving them a place to go, totally agree. I mentioned that in our business meeting last week, um, with the city, but the kids who come into the plaza are the kids who are not driving. And so if that rec center is not able to be in my opinion, this is just my observance, if it's not able to be in a, you know, close proximity enough to town center that it is walkable, I I still don't think that's going to make a difference as far as the activity we see in town center with the walking and the scooters and people in Panera and Breadco and just all of that. So not opposed to leaving it into in this. I mean, I it's not that it's a bad idea. I guess I'm just we have there's so and then there's a fee involved. So in addition to building it taxes with taxes or not great but then you have to staff it. Seems like we have a staffing issue above

out of here this far anywhere and then you have to have membership fees and you know all the things. So anyway just have lots of questions. If we don't put it in here it won't get done. Sure. It uh don't we have town room in community park? Well we have the 5.5 acre meadow and certainly that's an option. I have a I have a place in mind that I think was so there's ideas. Okay.

Well, so in answer to your question, if I am understanding, it seems to me that they're looking actually like for meeting rooms that you don't have at the YMCA. Now, I will be honest with you, my kids are grown and it's been a long time since I've tried to go to the YMCA. I did try to go there when my kids were younger and every time I went there, all the machines were full or the programs were full. And so I don't think it was quite big enough for us at that time. That might have changed. I I mean it's been a good many years. Uh but it would be nice to have a a meeting room place where kids could go to do things or groups could go to have meetings or whatnot. And maybe maybe basketball courts like a gymnasium type type of thing would be good. And if maybe we could look at um something that's already existing like maybe if one of those churches over there is for sale and you know or um that isn't there some land on the back side of this apartment place that's going in. I mean there are places right that we could look at or repurpose.

Well Miss Boomer identified the four acres immediately south of the YMCA. that would be a natural kind of location to create that that that partnership or interaction. And the other is the 4 and a half acres that's on this corner of um Manchester Road and Taylor Road just south of the new apartment complex. It's a walkable area. It's a higher density subdivision and so there's opportunities I think out there. Um but yet again there's a cost,

right? And and you know, one of the things there's yes, there is a fee that you'd probably have to do management thing, but or a membership thing, but if you wanted to rent a room, I don't know that where you can do that a lot of places. It's pretty hard. I know that when there's an HOA meeting that they're running all over the place trying to find some place to have meetings, so I don't know that the needs there or not. But I also agree uh with Vince that um if we don't put it in, it won't get done. So, thank you. Go ahead. Uh, it just seems like reading between the lines. Is there going to be some sort of tax or funding in the language? Because

because I'm just saying that that that goes over real well with city council and things that adding taxes. Are we going to talk about like how we could look at funding it like grant programs, all this other stuff? Well, so from the perspective of the department, we've already talked about the parks and storm water tax and the most recent estimate that it could generate up to $3 million. So, that could go a long way to maintaining a facility along with our other parks and trails. Well, I was just making sure I understood what the motion entailed. That's the role of this body, but I think it obviously would require a tax of some sort.

Well, I mean, it was mentioned and I I yeah, we're start talking taxes and or anything like that. I mean, I as a PNZ, I tried to I recommended we go down the path of city inspectors when houses sell for a variety of reasons. It failed and that was for So, I was just kind of bringing that up. Yeah. You don't know until you

for us to do. It's just for us to say is this is something that our resident something might be good for our city and that's what's in there. But it's not up to us to Okay. I was just making sure it was leaving to raise up something.

So I guess director Renich, what I'm I'm leaning on the other side. Sorry, Deon, [laughter] but um I don't feel that we have that kind of a budget to or the staffing that we need to um get into looking at it and to um maintain it. Um it's just a lot of money and our budget is very limited. So, um, yeah, there's other ways to get things funded, but we have problems getting funds for, um, the parks as it is now. So, my I guess I is this attainable? Is this an attainable goal? Because to me, I see it as not an attainable goal with the projects we have on the strategic plan. Now, the the top prioritized ones, the five-year capital improvements um projects as we are now. Um do we look forward and say we're going to have a lot more staff by the end of 10 years? Is it attainable, Rob? Thank you.

Please, I'll I'll wait to respond.

I agree with everything Teresa said because we've felt the budgetary pain and we know just how hard it is to get folks to pay for um a a restroom in a park, let alone a facility. But I do agree completely um with April. I'm at the Y several days a week. I'm a gym rat my whole life and um it's a great facility. I am not there in the evenings which is probably when Vicki was complaining about the um lack of access to machines and so on and so forth. But I think that's powerful leverage if we could partner with the Y. We've got a partner then they've got some financial resources. We've already got the space add on do what we need to do. Put the put the um the uh meeting rooms and so on and so forth. and it just seems to make a whole lot of sense to um to expand an existing facility because it's within it's walking distance of town center and everybody knows where it is and so on and so forth. So, I think that's a sensible approach, but I do feel like uh that we're getting off the beam designing this um when we really should decide whether a wreck facility or goes in the plan or not. But I I think it's a non-starter unless we come up with some specifics. So I would like to recommend that maybe take a step back and filter that a little bit with if if it's important and we want to include something that we include investigate the fe feasibility and costing of the funding of a facility and the maintenance of a facility versus partnering ing with existing neighborhood facilities and do a study that says, "Hey, look, if

we build one, it costs this. It costs this much to maintain it. If we go outside and form a partnership and cost this and let the cards fall where the numbers fall, Jim is can we as far as our charter, can we say that as a goal or something a task force should be formed to investigate all this and and get the right people on the task force like financial people, constru construction people and let them come and figure it out. Then if the cost is there, then we have to have a vote of the people and then we'll decide how bad do they want something like this. When we did the survey and the people said they wanted a a a recreation facility, I'm sure they did, but at that point the cost was free. Now we're coming down to hard dollars. How bad do you want it now? So I think we ought to push this off on a third party and just put in here an aspiration that we ought to have

Yeah, you know. Well, remember when we started this process, we talked about the goals, objectives, and policies having the shape of a funnel. the goals are the kind of the wide the wider part of the funnel and then the policies start slimming down and telling us how to make that goal or objective feasible. Um so from the perspective of can you as a policy say a task source should be formed within a certain period of time to look into the feasibility of a of a community center. Certainly this group could do that. Um, I think there needs to probably be a goal or an objective to in a general sense say that the city should investigate providing facilities Yeah.

that would benefit the community and it the entirety of its residents. And do we kind of have that now? We do kind of, but it's not specific to

we could put that language in in an already existing goal. And again, we have partnerships as an objective, a policy. We have facilities and improvements. U so we've covered it, but I believe what M. McCutchen is asking is that we kind of pin the tail on the donkey and say it's really we want a rec center, community center. I I used to live in Maryland Heights years ago and they do have a YMCA and they have an amazing community center which I love. But I will say if we were to get such thing. I already have a membership at the Y. What it could do is cost the Y because I would more than likely move that membership. Just a perspective to consider that it could cost you know the Y um members. I say this partially tongue and cheek, but maybe one of the policies should be that we pursue riverboat gambling along our frontage on the Missouri River. With Maryland Heights, they have all of that because there are casinos. So,

it would have to be in the industrial portion of the city, [laughter] of course.

Yeah. So I mean what was it 5 years 10 years ago we didn't have village green. How long did we talk about that? And it it was in the 2016 master plan. Um you know I [snorts] don't again I don't think it's our job to say yes or no and this what it should be. I think our job is to name it as a possibility. Um, and I don't, you know, the YMCA and the cost and all, we don't know that yet. And that's not our job right now. Our job is just to say what does Wildwood residents want and what could be a possibility. That's because what we wanted green, we didn't have the opportunity to do that and the opportunity came up.

So, Mr. chair to respond to Miss Clark. I think it's a feasible um gold objective or policy. Practically speaking, as I sit or stand here today, you know, the staffing component, we have right now 25 employees. I I can't imagine the number of employees you need, whether it's part-time, full-time, to manage a true recreation center, to the standards and safety it needs to be. But then I look back in February of 1994, now almost what, six, 32 years ago. There was a lot of people that said Wildwood wouldn't work. Guess what? They were wrong. I could be wrong. could be very feasible. So the only way to find out is for you as a group to say you want something either a partnership with an existing facility or our own facility where the community can gather where kids of all ages all abilities can play and where people can meet have an opportunity to form community that kind of I guess my pitch would be if feasibility is the general criteria we all wouldn't be sitting in city hall tonight. Could I make a motion that we add as a goal something to do with the recreational center and let you flesh out the wording of it and and see what you can come up with, but to have a goal specifically for that and whatever that looks like, whether whether it's sharing a facility or creating our own that that a goal would be to provide the the citizens of Wildwood with with

some sort of recreational that's that's up here and then you guys can kind of figure out how it works from there. I think that to both to I think everybody here has had very good input and I think that I don't think that right now is feasible physically, but I think that it's a good idea. People asked for it. We should just put it in. So that's my my motion. Okay. Intersect with this. You disagree. No. No. I got a question. Do we have is there money in the budget for the feasibility study?

Certainly. If we if if ultimately this master plan is adopted by you as the the authors and it goes through the process and there's something in there about the the the community center rec center. Yes. We'll basically plan it out in the budget for either 2027 or 2028. I think we need to just discussion. I think there need to be an microphone please. Oh, I'm sorry. An action component that either requires the establishment of a task force or not just we would like we should have a rec center, right? I'd like to see there be an action.

Yeah. I think the goal as described by Miss Helpfrey will be the more general, but we'll figure out if it's an objective or policy, the four of us and how best to get to that point where we can answer the question, is it really feasible? Jim's idea past citizens require that that be involved to figure it out.

Tempered with a feasibility review of how best to provide the citizens of Wildwood with the goods and services they're looking for from a rec center whether it be shared facilities or our own how best to get there to provide those services just a logistical question when when we have like in April we'll have elections and that costs wild with something to have the election if we put like a a It's an issue like this, does that cost us any more? Do you pay by issue or do you just pay a fee to have your city or there is an escalator? But generally speaking, placing it on the ballot is the major cost. And so you're so you are aware in our charter there is a provision that says if in this particular case based on inflation if we spend on a single project with city money more than $4.6 million it has to go to voters for approval and so city hall went to the voters because of its cost. So regardless, no matter what the gold objective of policy is and how the feasibility study of the under the guidance of the task force, if it all comes out positive, the voters get the last word. Can we do a very very quick study and solicit our communities follow one? How much did your rec center cost? How much is your budget? How many people work there? How many people support it? Based on how many people support it, what's

that translate per capita cost? And take a look at the different communities. And that number right there is going to tell us everything. Certainly, our park superintendent, Chris Nagger, we get she gets emails from all the parks and recreation professionals around the region. They're doing a plan. Who who have you used for your planning process? We're thinking about doing this for a memorial bench. Have you done? So, yeah, we can certainly contact the surrounding municipalities that have facilities that we like we believe are are good examples and see what they say.

Mr. Vish, could you read the motion to me because I'm not sure exactly what it is now. I've heard too many things going on. I think generally speaking, Miss Hulfrey is asking that we add a goal that identifies the desire to have a recreation center within the city of Waldin. Now, there's been some qualifiers about a feasibility study, a task force, a partnership. Those, I think, will feather out into an objective, but the gold itself is that the city of Wild would consider a recreation center in the future. Have I misstated that for some? That's a big difference including and or shared facility. I think that needs to be included and you're going to get a different vote if we built that way.

So M Clark will have an andor in there whether it's a standalone facility under the ownership of the city or a partnership with another provider. Yeah. Real quickly, but um uh the the idea the issue of cannibalization of existing facilities came up. That's an important uh element of your study and also the services that are currently provided in a given community versus the ones that we think are missing. Um that needs to go in your in your analysis as well. And you I know you guys will cover it anyway, but I wanted to mention that. That's that's why I said put and or in there. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right. No, I know

this pickle is correct. When we met years ago with the Wildwood Family YMCA, their executive director here for this branch, you know, they when Lifetime Fitness opened, they saw a dip. It's rebounded over the course of time, but it's taken time. So, I don't think there's any part of any of our elected officials, appointed officials that wants to do harm to another facility. But and so yes, there's a lot of steps in the process, but I can assure you we'll be cognizant that obviously we don't want to put somebody out of business, so to speak. Cindy, are you still out there?

I am. You there, Cindy? I am. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can now. Um, sorry we missed your hand. Do you have any other input? you've been out there kind of quiet. Just just been listening to the conversation and um waiting for the final version of what we're going to vote on. Okay. Thank you for checking in. I appreciate it. Sure. Okay. All in favor of the motion to either develop our own or develop a shared facility relationship. All in favor say I. I

I. All oppose. Nay.

One down. The motion passes. So again, we have a a new goal. We'll probably have an objective or policy that is associated with it that will be new as you see it in the next version in February. Any others that come to mind in terms of this particular element? Open space and recreation.

Very good discussion. Economic development. This is the sixth of six elements. So it's the proverbial we're on the home stretch. There's light at the end of the tunnel, etc., etc. Um this particular element is a little different than the others that you receive for first consideration. The city administrator staffs the economic development committee which is the third standing committee of city council. We have planning and parks administration public works and economic development. that group was kind enough to put together some of their review of the element and suggested revisions, changes, confirmations, etc. So, as I say, different than what you've seen previously, there is a third column now and that's from the economic development committee members and their review of the goals objectives and policies. This is how it was ultimately presented back to the committee after their submittals. And so I did not edit this. This is their responses. So again, just kind of context. We have some additional information to help us in our discussion. So first uh [clears throat] excuse me the first goal is uh continue to designate and promote town center as the city's core commercial and business area or development. Um Mayor Garitano has a great u approach to this. He likes to explain that town center is 2% of the overall land area of the city of Baldwood about 800 acres. It is also the area where we focus our higher density residential development

and commercial util commercial commercial utilization.

So response one was from one of the committee members that said just keep it as is. They the gold as stated is appropriate. agree is they think the gold is fine. Yeah. And then there's some others modify items to be specific of broader retain Chesterfield. So there's a like I say it's it's the collective input of the committee that forms economic development. um I didn't feel comfortable letting it so I just gave it to you so to speak to so if you do have questions do ask I'll do my best to explain it and if I can't we'll get Mr. really involved.

I think that was fun. The question was is what do you think of the goal? What do you think of the objective? What do you think of the policy? Is it okay? Does it needs changed? Does it need to be removed? That kind of go. That's the question more so than anything. Kind of what I've been asking you for the last year. What do you think, Teresa?

Thank you. Um on that um you know one of my things with goals is um the wording and continue to I think needs to be you need to strike that from the because a goal is just to do it. We we maybe we've continued to do it for 30 years, but the other goals don't say continue to do this. Just designate or even take off designate if you wanted to. Now that it's been designated, just promote. I mean, that would be up to you. A second thing is I really like this that it says see planning element objective four. if that was um in each one of these that relates back to like some of the the environment related to something else. It would be really nice when you're reading through it to be able to go back and see exactly what um was said back in the other element.

We'll do our best to see if we can cross reference. It's a it's a little time consuming and certainly we'll see what we can do. But I do think it brings benefit because obviously the planning element talked about the designation of town center and the other um areas of our conceptual land avenues categories map. So we'll do our best but if there's no objection we'll start that goal with promote the town center

Cindy. Yeah, I just wanted to add to that too. I kind of like the response number four about, you know, mentioning the Chesterfield Valley also. I think that is um a good area for, you know, expanding potential uh development for Wildwood. You know, we have the people coming to um the outlet malls and stuff, so you know, it's kind of getting a lot more um people down there. Um, so I think, you know, I kind of like the idea of including that in there as well.

Certainly, ma'am. And if there's no objection on the part of the group, we'll add it in and see what you think in version two. So that area is the industrial area, right? So that would require us stating industrial area also in here. Would that be correct? Okay. And then as far as referring to these is that that's what those that's what that grill I I haven't had enough coffee. I'm sorry. This little chart at the end that's the cross reference right for the objectives and the policy. So you can see what goes to what in the context of that element but not the others.

Okay. So that what was described is there are there is some crossover between the other five elements and this element as well as the others. Um for the most part we just were asked by the 2016 group to kind of cross reference within the context of each element but we can probably do at least in some of them I think it would be appropriate to add those cross references particularly when some are more controversial let's say and or not. Okay. Thank you.

So, just to kind of tip a hand, um, as we approach the land use element or the land use map, um, McBride's Homes has submitted a request to consider allowing a different type of development in the Chesterfield Valley portion that's in the city of Wildwood. Specifically, the Do Lo family owns approximately 225 acres down in the valley. It's the big agricultural field you see. And so, we'll be getting a presentation shortly from McBride Homes about what they see as a vision for that 200 plus acres.

Is that the acreage next to the not Fick, but the guy next to Fick? Was that Kirkwood or whatever? I don't know what it is. Landscaping. Kirk. Yeah. So, it's the one next to that. Yes. Okay. And don't we only have like 400 acres left in the industrial area that's undeveloped? That's correct. So if McBride Homes were to proceed forward with a favorable recommendation, a whole lot of things happen over the next few years. Yes. Our industrial base would be down to um a substantially less amount.

Okay. In currently commercial is limited to town center with the exception of Clayton and Shreker and the industrial.

Yes. So over the years and you've been a part of this, the state has acquired a lot of different types of land uses um whether it be medical marijuana now marijuana and its components of grow, manufacture, sale, etc. We also have a lot of we have some of our uses down in the other the industrial area that include vape lounges and tattoo parlors and uh sexually explicit businesses and we're looking at it now for data centers. So it has become kind of the catchall area. Um so yes, our industrial area has a has a very diverse set of land uses right now. Not not not to get too far ahead, but what Briden proposal is that residential homes

actually is that commercial? They started with a true residential project and there were a lot of questions because if you're familiar with the valley, it's the water table's probably not more than a couple feet below the soil. It's perched and that's why you see all the surface storm water features. So they would have been on slab. There was a lot of them and we told them that you can submit that but it's probably not going to get very far. So they have a different proposal. They've not submitted it yet but we'll have it for you when we start to talk about it. Well, aren't they directly under the flight plan of that's been mentioned.

All right. So I'm just going to step away. It's that's been mentioned as well.

[laughter]

So first goal I have a little shortening of it to start with promote and then we'll add in the Chesterfield Valley per Deppler's requesting concurrence. Yes. And the the village is at Brightleaf the large residential project. Oh. Oh. Village Plaza. Yes, that's Town Center. Just some real quick when we were defining the boundary of town center, anything that had commercial zoning that existed and was in place became immediately part of it. Goal one. Goal two, um, retention of current businesses and the development of new enterprises should be a priority to all staff, boards, commissions, and elected officials of the city. So this is basically our retention statement as a goal and our the recruitment statement as a goal combined into one.

Would commercial be a caveat?

Certainly could be. We use businesses and enterprises, but obviously maybe a little better definition would go a long way. Obviously, one of our council peppers thought to keep as is and do. Goal three, allocate funding for capital improvement projects in town center area focusing on expansions or upgrades to the current street and utility networks along with open space, park trail development there as well. So part of the logic here is uh if you look at the Chesterfield Valley and the city of Chesterfield portion, they've used a lot of different development incentive tools to facilitate growth. Our community doesn't necessarily embrace those as much and in many instances where they've been proposed have not been supported.

Can you give us examples please? Pardon? Can you give us examples of things that we don't embrace that they've embraced?

Well, for example, Chesterfield Common is probably one of the largest strip commercial centers in the country. They used a tiff, a tax increment financing, deferred taxes to all the districts, used that deferred tax over the course of 20 years to basically pay for the most part infrastructure, utilities, the things that made the project feasible. We haven't done a tax increment financing. In fact, in the master plan, it says of all the development tools, that's the least one that would be supported. Now, we've done a community improvement district across the street here for Coleman properties, the 15 acres that include Starbucks, the hotel, the parking garage. And we used the community improvement district and special assessments, property taxes, and sales taxes to build the garage, um the fountain, the street pier. So we we used the we used the mechanism to help the development but also get a community outcome or benefit. Um so I guess from the perspective of the city over the course of time we're probably better at building roads, bridges and trails than we are at offering development incentives. So the idea was that is an economic development driver. If you have a developer that comes in that wants to build now on Manchester Road, they don't have to build the streetscape. It's there. We extended sewer to facilitate the Philip 66 Cambury and the development profile that would be east of there or east of Edton Road. Back in the late 1990s, we partnered with the Wildwood family YMCA

of the Meadows at Wildwood, the senior development, the community college in Wildwood Square to build new new college avenue and generations drive. So our economic development incentives are hard infrastructure or utilities so to speak instead of saying okay service providers we're going to take money out of your pocket to help development per se. Now, recently we did a chapter 100 with the apartments, but it's on a very abbreviated time frame relative to other development incentives. And we gave them the ability to not be charged sales tax, um, which the city doesn't pay because we're a public entity. We gave them that ability not to not to be charged. That saved them about a million dollars on construction materials. Now, all of that is to go into improved amenities and architecture, plus you're going to have basically reduced rents for the first couple of years to basically um I guess feed the project, so to speak. So what we've what was what the group in 2016 said is don't get muddled into those development incentives that last 20 or 30 years. Build things that we all benefit from. Yes.

Sorry to back up to number two. I just needed to process what I wanted to ask. um on the goal regarding the retention of current businesses. Can somebody here help me understand what that means? And what I mean by that is what is the city's role? Meaning, you know, in the various plazas there are different management companies. So, we have different rates, things you don't have control over, the rent, the taxes, you know, things like that. So, what is it specifically that the city can do? because I guess I guess I'm having trouble understanding how how how can you guys be responsible for retaining businesses for the things that are outside of our control. So what other reasons would cause businesses to leave? So that's just what I'm asking for clarification on.

Well, and Mr. Shiken may be able to tell us a bit about what they do elsewhere. But what what we've tried to do over the years is if we have a set of regulations, particularly in the case of signage, we try to basically listen to our businesses and and tailor the signage to their their concerns. um we have to do that in the context still that we have an town center plan that has architectural guidelines etc like that that everything's supposed to complement everything in terms of their aesthetics. So that's one way a lot of times the programming we offer opportunities to do advertisement at our events. We offer space at our events for businesses to participate. We used to do that a great deal about our summer concert series to give visibility. um or Route 66 until the budget constraints caught up with us. You're going to do a grant program for businesses along Route 66. Help them do special signage commemorating the 100th anniversary or to make um simple improvements that may enhance the corridor from let's say an aesthetic value. There's a lot more. I'm I I don't follow the Julian and Tom used to be our economic development managers and I know they spent a great deal of time talking to the business community about what we could do to basically make business better. We talked about um wayfinding signage that would direct people off the Route 100, Route 109 and Manchester Road in the core business district where all of our businesses are located. Um that's on the boards. We're still looking at the 66 wayfinding signs to get people to our downtown district where you're located. Um,

well, that helps that helps me understand. So, it's more like just um programs and involvement so that they feel part of both the city hall and and like the city hall is listening, which you guys are doing as part of the business forum. I know that the sign escrow thing passed. You guys did make changes to the aotments for the size. So, that's that's cool. So, that answers my question. I just I didn't know specifically what that was relating to. I'm sure Mr. mistaken. I mean, I can touch on some of the ones that that we do in St. Charles. Um, but one of the big things we do is a workforce Oh, I'm sorry.

A workforce pipeline. So, assisting businesses with workforce management. Like they come and they say, "Well, what do you where are we going to get our employees from?" And then we have workforce management. We have a whole area that focuses just on workforce pipeline, making sure that they're uh trained to do the job they want to do, streamline permitting, uh quality of life enhancement, which is what we're talking about now, which is building parks and having the downtown area and having people coming to the to town center and frequenting it by, you know, walking past and things like that like that. Um we do grants and loans. We work with them to, you know, depending on what their business is. So there's a whole variety of them. Um, you know, the big thing for us is is the attrition in and working on why we lost that business. So you move from from municipality a to municipality fee. Why did you upgrade? What's the biggest thing? Is it I can't find employees? I I can't afford, you know, the way that the uh municipality's permitting and what they're requiring us to do. So there's a bunch of different factors that all work together to do that. But

do you offer any incentives for employees to work in your um we don't I mean in the in the St. Charles County area we don't I mean in way of incentives those incentives are going to be some of the things that we touched on like one of the big things that we're struggling with and we've talked about it here is the housing. Like where do these people that want to move to to Wildwood and work, where are they going to live if they're making a minimum wage? Like we just don't have and and Robin can I know she's working on talked about it before just the the balance of you want to have you know employees come out and work and live in our community but if they make a minimum wage how can they afford to live in the community? So why would they want it?

How much is public transportation pulled into that just as far as consistent, you know, bringing in the buses and and things like that where people outside of the community maybe in a more affordable area would be able to We do. I mean, you know, you can take the bus from here all the way down Manchester Road. It's not like we don't have any public transportation coming to the area. kind of better.

I I don't know how how you could facilitate a a better program and to get more buses or more routes to come out here. Um well, under the under one of our previous elements, we talked about metro and the wrership levels and we're still researching that. We haven't gotten the information yet, but as I say, that was a challenge. a gentleman named Paul Wchakowski who passed. He was intricral in getting Metro to even look at the one bus line doing it out and originally it just went to Deerberg Town Center and we'd see the kids walking to the community college along Manchester Road. It finally goes out to New College Avenue, Route 109. So, we've made some strides. Public transit is it something we got complaints when Metro showed up. It's like what are they doing here?

[snorts]

I you know I know as as as a member of the planning and zoning board and I think other people may have the same idea is when we're [clears throat] hearing a proposal and part of the process is how can this help business or if you know it's not the only thing that we look at but if if all the you there's no deviation of rules or anything. You know, we got to look at how is this going to help bring people into the area because we do have legalized gambling in Wildwood. Every businessman here is a hell of a gambler. He pays his money and he prays. And you know,

I think that uh you know, we need to be thinking of that. And I think they put that in there is that what effect will this have on our business community because we need the business community.

Well, for example, with this most recent chapter 100 and the deference of sales tax, part of that is to add upgraded um interior improvements to the restaurant, the commercial spaces. And if you talk to Mr. Con who used to be on the planning and zoning commission. His intent was to offer a a very generous package to do inter the the business's interiors but also potentially rent free for the first year. Get them established. So if those incentives work and actually achieve the goals, that's a good that's a very good approach.

Yep. Jill, I want to recommend we draw a line above number three. It' be a good stopping point for this evening. Yeah, time flew by. What's that? Time flew by, it seems. Yeah, we're having fun. Does that make sense? Well, if there's were there any other hands up, we could maybe take another one or two comments.

Okay. My question is, and I guess I should know this because of planning zoning, but what is the uh I I don't own a business, so but one of the things I wonder is how we can we have businesses in Wildwood that sometimes people are not aware they're there. And so I'm always trying to figure out how we can let people know. And I know that we uh we don't have the LED signs. You know, the mayor of St. Charles was so very proud of himself for putting the big LED sign at the corner of Boon Slick and Fifth Street. It's kind of lost there, but I don't know, you know, what kind of things we could do to advertise our businesses more along these main thoroughfairs. I I or or maybe when we put out our Wildwood Gazette, if we gave a free plug to every business in Wildwood, here's at the last page, here's a list of all of our businesses. Or I mean, would those things fall under this retention?

I believe so. And that's why we have three business owners on the group as well as Mr. Shiken as who's the economic development person over in St. Charles County. of if there's some thoughts on how to improve this and make it more put let's put some let's say meat on the bones relative to retention or recruitment.

I I will say Mr. Mayor Gueritano does an excellent job at plugging businesses. I mean I'm not on social media a lot but when I am it seems like he's always popping up going hey you know Lucky Dog Central or hey ice cream shop here. He is very good about that and it puts it out in people's.

So we have a Wildwood centric so to speak government Facebook page. We also have a business Facebook page. And when Julian and Tom were the economic development managers, I think there were there are a lot of more postings and updates that um that were done in the e newsletter. I have a business section. I talk about local businesses. There's been programs like the bicycle program you go by. If you had the huge share, one of our historic preservation commissions started and I always tell people if you have a sale, let me know. I'll put it in the newsletter until somebody tells me to stop.

Right. Um, toy piggyback on what Vicki said, I love the Gazette and I wish it came out more often, but in one of our previous meetings, it might have been you, Travis, you know, it's an expensive thing to produce, but is it something or is it plausible that I mean, could businesses buy an ad or something? Is is there any room to either increase the pages or ad pages where we could even pay for that to get some visibility? I mean, I I don't know. I don't ever bulletin, you know, where you buy squares. Is that what you're talking about? Something like that. I mean, I don't know what it would look like. But I'm just curious if that's ever been the consideration or if that's not what that publication is for.

Generally speaking, it's not been something that's been embraced. But, you know, these are difficult times. So, let me talk with Mr. Lee and we'll get you an answer in February. Even if you they determine not to sell an ad, it would be worth it to list just like a part of it. Put list the businesses in Wildwood. I mean, I know everything you print takes up space and costs money, but at this point, it could even be set up like a directory, like when you go to a mall, like food, retail services, I don't know, something like that, where it's not going to take up a lot of space, but people would know it's there.

No, sir. Uh, Mr. Shagen, you may have asked a question. Every

We can't really hear out here. I'm sorry. uh the city of I I think is great nowadays are just not Facebook just nature. If you say dinosaur and pardon me one more time, we're going biases. You're probably a lot of people,

you know, news people that got that left all the news stations that got fired, Alexis Zoto, Anthony Slaughter, all those people, they all have done that now. They're going out and doing just internet stuff, right? They're visiting different restaurants and then posting all about it, the ca cupy that cup of coffee they had or the brownie that they had. And so I don't disagree with that. That maybe a dedicated page would be nice. I you know, Teresa,

thank you chair. Um yeah, just to change the subject or go back a a bit and my question is for Joe and for Mr. Shanken. the um you you were talking about like housing and available housing for the people that work here and that just made me really think about what we talked about with Robin before about the um the affordability index and maybe that fits here better and that um because we don't know we don't have something that tells us what is it that we have that we need housing wise for people that we want to work here and live here. And just to come up with the what she was she had um had presented to us before about that. It just seemed like a good idea to me to find out all of the information about who is here, who we who works here, and who we need to work here. and if we have accommodations for them. And I also liked when you said new the new town center that just really um I mean that's perked everybody up. the new town center. I mean, I don't know where that came from, if you got it from someplace else, but it just

it just so much development over there that the old and I I' I've been a resident here since 99 when it first opened and when just the Dearbergs was there and a couple things and it's it's changing and it's going in the right direction with what we're doing now and and it needs to be rebranded. It's something like the new town center would um reenergize people to come. Okay. I think great discussion. Thank you.

It's not going to end here. I think Joe, we want to pick up this discussion when we come back because we're not done yet. But in the interest of time, Travis, do we have any outside comments? Uh, no one is in uh attendance via Zoom. No.

Okay. Um, next meeting, Tuesday, February 10th and Wednesday, February 25th. Thank you all for your excellent comments. A motion to adjourn, please. Vicki Jim second. All in favor? I thank you all. How