Board of Supervisors - Regular Meeting

Nope. Come on.

Ready. Yeah. Okay. Welcome ladies and gentlemen, those of you on television. Welcome to the Dair Township Board of Supervisors uh public hearing or public meeting of April 14th, 2026. We all stand for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisibley and justice for all. Mr. Jackson, can we do the roll call, please? Sure. Supervisor Belaluchcci

present. Supervisor Curado here. Supervisor Myers here, Supervisor Ballard here, and Supervisor Zmuda here. We have five present this evening.

Thank you, Mr. Jackson. So, comment here that the board met in executive session prior to the start of this public meeting. During this confidential session, board members addressed and reviewed topics concerning legal matters, personnel issues, and land related concerns. These discussions were conducted to ensure that the sensitive subjects were handled with the appropriate level of privacy and attention. I would like to remind you all present that in accordance with township policy, every public meeting is taped is tape recorded. Notices of this procedure are displayed within the meeting room. The purpose of this recording is to produce accurate minutes and to ensure that all comments made during the meeting are thoroughly documented. In addition to audio recordings, we have recently begun live streaming these proceedings, providing broader access and transparency to the communic community. For the benefit of the record, please speak directly into the microphone sharing your full name and address so that your remarks are captured clearly. Each participant has three minutes to provide comments. If additional time is needed, it may be granted at the discretion of the chairman. All right, that leads us to our first session of public comment. Would anybody like to

There you go. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Loel Gates. Uh my address is 150 Corporate Center Drive, Camp Hill, PA17011. Um I'm here just to address very briefly an update on uh the Governor Crossing Project at the corner of Fishburn and Governor Road. Um, on the the first page of the document I handed out, uh, just as a kind of an update of how the site is being laid out, the the blue area over on the right hand side, uh, 704 Fishburn, we will be acquiring that property this coming Friday.

So, that would kind of give us, uh, a sufficient amount of land for the proposed roundabout. Uh we acquired the property at uh 672 Fishburn a couple of months ago. Uh we we began discussions with with 710 Fishburn just to see their interest, but it's really not necessary. Um so I guess the second document is um is the the uh I call it existing or former that was that was uh signed. Um I highlighted a couple of areas in yellow. Um, just to point out that um, again turning back to the front page, the the pinkish area along Governor Road, uh, that's the area where land was already dedicated to the township, you know, to widen Governor and then all of the access points, all the driveways along there were closed officially. Um, so it it it it kind of permanently cut off our access to that to governor road. So it it kind of put forces us to use the other entrances. So just to give you some background on that and then um we we submitted a newou in uh in on January 18th around around January 18th um and uh kind of we're hoping to get some comments from the board on that. And then se uh thirdly um there is attached a u a legal memorandum uh which discusses the definition of a mixeduse building. Uh we we provided that to um to the zoning officer Mr. Emer and uh that was that was provided back on February 18th approximately. Um we were we were hoping to get some comments from from Mr. Emer on that and we haven't yet. Um

I was kind of hoping, you know, he would read it, it would be brilliant. Tears would welling up in his eyes, you know. Um and he would be like, "Ah, it's perfect. Yes, I agree with it." Um or or he might say, "No, I don't agree with it." You know, he might say, "Oh, you're an idiot." Um, but anyways, it would be it would be helpful to know because it would kind of give us some direction on the site and uh, you know, maybe we just abandoned the idea of a mixeduse building with with apartments. You know, we're not quite sure what to do. So, having some direction would be would be super helpful to us. Um, yeah, I guess another choice would be to consider it a denial and go to the zoning hearing board. But, you know, um I for one I don't really want.

All right. Thanks, Mr. Gates. Our solicitor will chat with you later on. I will. Yeah, I have had discussions with the board in executive session giving some legal advice regarding your proposals. Um either Mr. Armstrong or I will get back uh to your to Andy tomorrow um because Andrew, you know, he has been talking to us. But uh we will have a discussion all all these points tomorrow with him. Okay. So, yeah. But thank you for the presentation. Um, yeah. And I'm sure Mr. Emer will get back to you pronto. Anybody else?

Good evening. Uh, my name is Elise. I live on Grammarcy Place in Humblestown 17036. Um, Elise what? Alise Sheiley. Alise Sheiley. Okay. Oh,

yes. Um, I'm here tonight because according to the 2024 census, uh, one in every 10 people in Derry Township was born in another nation. That is, one in every 10 Dair Township residents is an immigrant. Immigrants work hard in many different fields and hospitality and research and health care and construction, literally building up this township. And I don't know about anybody else in this room, but I do my best work when I can focus on it. I can focus on it without outside distractions. Yet, immigrants within Dair Township have an extra level of stress due to the potential for surveillance. Certain applications and forms within the township includes questions about immigration status and recent reports of uh immigration customs and enforcement activity include the use of judicially invalid administration warrants and co-opting local resources and extra legal activity that's based on racial profiling. I hope I don't have to say that surfoot surveillance profiling and at worst attainment is includes like points that would remove form questions that are based on immigration status. It it has elements that could be modeled to restrict the use of Dair Townships facilities, databases or equipment by state or federal civil immigration if the agencies in question do not provide a valid judicial warrant. Codifying these actions would go a long way to show that Dair Township residents are safe to work here and it contributes to uh Dair Township being a nice place to live. Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Sheily. Anyone else? Seeing none, first session public comment is closed. Which brings us to our first order business is the consent calendar. We can approve those one at a time or as a block. I'll make a motion to accept the consent calendar items A and B as written on the agenda. Thank you, Mr. Myers. I'll second that. Thank you, Miss Ballard. All in favor? I I

opposed. Hearing none, the motion carries. Consent calendar is approved. Okay. Our first agenda item of new business is requesting authorization to execute a letter of intent with Smithfield Fire Company Huntington, PA for the sale of a 2006 Crrave Marauder. Mr. Jackson,

thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the board is aware, we recently entered into a listing and marketing agreement with Fireline Equipment LLC for the sale of our 2006 Crrave Marauder. The township has received a letter of intent from Smithfield Fire Company in Huntington, Pennsylvania for a purchase price of $195,000. Uh if approved by the board of supervisors this evening, we can execute the letter of intent and move forward with the sale process. The cost of listing and marketing is 7% of the sale price and the remaining proceeds will be used to pay down the debt on the new fire apparatus.

Are there any questions, concerns? Do I hear a motion? I'll move that the board of supervisors authorize the township manager to execute a letter of intent with the Smithfield Fire Department, Huntington, PA, for the sale of the 2006 Crader. Thank you, Mr. Felicia. Is there a second? I'll second that motion. Thank you, Mr. Myers. All those in favor? I I

opposed. Hearing none, the motion carries. We're selling a fire truck. Okay. Okay, next order of business is a request by the downtown Hershey Association to have alcoholic beverages in Chocolate Town Square Park in conjunction with events that are part of the DHA's Life on Chocolate event series for the 2026 years. Before I hand this off to Mr. Emerch, I want to say I'm going to recuse myself from this because I am a member of the downtown Hershey Association. So, thank you,

Mr. Chair. Um, the code of ordinance for Dair Township requires that the board of supervisors authorize alcoholic beverages within the parks as in as has been done in past years. Um, the request is before the board for the downtown Hershey Association's uh 2026 life on chocolate series. The series includes the market on chocolate, u music on chocolate, chotoberfest, and although holiday celebration is included in our uh series event, I can't think of a time when alcohol has ever been to uh the holiday event. But as be it as it may, um downtown Hershey Association is committed to ensuring that the alcohol service provided at Life on Chocolate, as it has done in prior years, is done in a responsible manner. Uh, with that, I'd look for a motion.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Emer. There any questions or concerns? I have a question. I guess being at some of these events, there's been no history of any incidents or anything like that. I don't know if that's directed at Chief Warner or Chuck who answers that, but I just had a especially especially for Chucktoberfest, we do engage the police and have pro uh roving patrols through there to ensure that everything is done in an appropriate manner.

Any other questions? Do I hear a motion? I'll move that the supervisors allow alcoholic beverages to be on the property of Chocolate Town Square Park in conjunction with Downtown Hershey Association's 2026 Life on Chocolate series. Thank you, Miss Ballard. Is there a second? I'll second. Thank you, Mr. Belushi. All those in favor? I I opposed.

Hearing none, the vote carries four to zero with one recusal. Next order of business is the preliminary final land development plan for Hershey Restaurant at 1221 West Chocolate Avenue. Mr. Emer.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, this plan is filed by Gibble Brothers LLC and it represents the redevelopment of the Fudreker site at 1221 West Chocolate Avenue. track of land contains uh 1.35 acres and has frontage on West Chocolate Avenue and also on Bullfrog Valley Road. Believe it or not, there's a segment that was severed by the highway many years ago. Uh the land is located in the general commercial zoning district and the site presently contains the 6,075 footers restaurant building and the associated parking. The plan proposes to construct a one-story 8,000 square foot building with 4,000 square ft dedicated to a new restaurant uh Turning Point by name and 4,000 square feet uh dedicated to a uh retail establishment to be determined. Access to the site is provided by way of the existing private driveway from Lucy Avenue, which traverses the former Smoked Bar and Grill restaurant site. And I say former because they're under uh rebranding as well as well as a second private driveway from Bullfrog Valley Road allowing access to Governor Road or from Governor Road. The project will be served by public water and sewer facilities. Um the stormwater management facilities presently exist on the site. They were put there long ago when it was Golden Corral. Um and I guess the um Mr. donut I think was out front where where smoked is. Um

remember the Golden Corral

in uh the March 3rd 2026 trip generation uh summary. The consultant noted that uh basically he compared two restaurants, one having an afternoon peak or evening peak and then the turning point is a restaurant similar to that operates similar to um First Watch. Thank you. Um, so they would they would be more inclined to have a morning peak. They note that the anticipated um that there's not really much of an anticipated increase in traffic expected. Uh they're projecting um a maximum increase in trip ends of 49 vehicles during the AM peak hour offset by the PM peak hour. They've requested some waiverss uh on the land development plan. They've requested waivers from showing topography within 200 feet of the site. Uh they've requested uh waivers of providing storm sewer profiles, sanitary sew sewer profiles, gas and water system profiles for unaffected utilities. They've requested a waiver from providing as as the board is aware, our ordinance asked for the digital file to be on a CD. So they've asked for a waiver to provide that on a USB drive. I think at the last meeting, the last person in in the area that could burn a CD was sitting in front here. Um, they've asked for a waiver regarding road widening and right ofway dedication of Bullfrog Valley Road, which is really a dead-end street. They've asked for waiver of providing curbs along West Chocolate Avenue and and that portion of Bullfrog Valley Road, noting that there's no um curbing in that area. In each of those cases, the planning commission recommended that the waiverss be granted. They've asked for a waiver of shade trees along West Chocolate Avenue and Bullfrog Valley Road. The planning commission did uh recommend that that waiver be granted, although I understand there'll be some discussion on that. They've asked for a

waiver of sidewalks along West Chocolate Avenue and a portion of Bullfrog Valley Road, although they are um when Centric Bank went in, Centric Bank provided sidewalk along Bullfrog Valley Road. They are doing a small extension to the corner of the driveway. So, the request is really limited to the area that's west of their their driveway on Bullfrog and then the entire frontage of uh Chocolate Avenue. Planning Commission recommended that that waiver be granted subject to the applicant paying the um standard fee in lie of sidewalk installation opted as part of that determination which again I'm happy to go over if anybody would like them. I don't think I I think we've done our homework. So, okay. Thank you. Mr. is the applicant here.

You please step up, sir. Name please. Good evening. Winger with Durkinetsson on behalf of Gibble Brothers. Mr. Wanger. Good to meet you. Does this board have any questions of Mr. Winganger? Thank you, sir.

Oh, wow. Well, I um wanted to just it's not a question particularly to you, but I do want to um ask that the waiver be adjusted so that we might regarding trees. Um we might be able to squeeze in a couple more trees. Um, I believe um there may be a spot in the northwest corner and the southwest corner that we might be able to squeeze a couple more trees in. And um therefore I'm I'm adding suggesting we change the we waiver. So to mention um perhaps three or four trees planted along the west side there you have a parking lot and then a little bit of area.

So there are trees in the plan in the parking lot. Yes, I understand. Actually beyond the parking lot. Beyond the parking lot. Yes, we saw that in the plan. Yes, I understand those are parking lot. Yes. here. There's a gas line along this edge. I guess we weren't sure if we could storm water. Oh, we weren't sure if we could tag one there. I think right there would block the sign though. Oh, okay. I can we'll try and squeeze. We have utilities we're working on.

I understand. I understand. And I appreciate that. Um, and I just want to um mention and thank uh you for considering uh the waiver with an adjustment to add um a couple locations and I don't know Chuck if you might be able to share the one on the southern the southern part um looked like it could be a dust additional one right around there perhaps in the in the southern corner there there could be a tree that would be compliant with our street tree ordinance that it would be within the right of way of Wolfrog Valley Road uh which is shown there.

Yeah. Um you know because of the stormwater facilities in this area, the pipes and and so on, it's it's difficult to get much more than and well, you know, we don't like to plant too close to driveways either, right? But it's difficult to get many more um in that area. Well, I will look forward to whatever you can do to increase that. Have to take another look at it. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Yeah, I have a couple questions.

Uh in the I guess the remarks from the planning commission, there was a discussion of additional signing restrictions on Bullfrog governor road. I guess I didn't see that in the plan. I don't know if that was I think that was made by um

so that under under my staff comments comment number nine is that the applicant shall propose additional signage on the plan that restricts left turns at the intersection of Bullfrog Valley Road north and Governor Road to the south. So, I'm going to jump over to Google Earth to just help explain uh what what is meant by that. So, this is the driveway uh Bullfrog Valley Road that comes off of Governor Road into the site. And this driveway is presently restricted to no left turn. Yeah. on the stop sign,

right? The planning commission would um like the applicant to at least explore, understanding it's within Penda right ofway, the installation of a no left turn facing the driveway on the opposite side of Governor Road. Okay. Thanks for clarifying that. Um, and then I guess is the property with the the smoked restaurant, is there a permanent access easement to get to your site through that or are they all in one? As part of this plan, we're creating an easement so both restaurant visitors can cross both properties. Okay, good. Because I don't want there to be a feud between restaurants and one shuts off the other one and then All right, that concludes my questions.

Okay, I actually got a couple of questions. You got Okay. Um, is this primarily breakfast or brunch and brunch establishment? Are you going to have dinners there? Uh, currently Fud Ruckers is lunch and dinner. Turning point is breakfast and lunch. So, there will be no evening meals with the turning point. You don't uh anticipate any additional traffic beyond what Fud Ruckers already draws, do you? No.

No. Okay. Um, are you going to have I wonder when my front are you gonna have any wfinders say in the front uh on the main the main drag and uh coming in the back back in here as far as signage? Yeah, the leases aren't confirmed yet for the users. So, the signage has not been addressed yet at the moment. The current signs will stay till they actually finalize leases. then we'll have to come back to you with this with the signage information. Okay. Chuck, does that come to who does that come to then?

So that sign signs are approved by the uh under the zoning ordinance and under the building code depending on what they are on the Bullfrog Valley frontage. There are two signs. There is uh one sign for Fudruckers and one sign for smoked. Smoked is technically an offsite sign. So, in that case, they can replace the interior but cannot replace the structure if because it's a non-conforming sign because it's not on the property where smoked is. Um, we allow sign face changes, but the ordinance says that any modification to the sign must be in full compliance with the ordinance, which would mean that they wouldn't be able to have that one out front

on chocolate. Yeah. On chocolate. Yeah, there's a sign. I mean, obviously from the, you know, smoked of course has their own sign on their property and and there you go. Is there is there going to be a sign? Is there planning on being a sign? I guess both you and Chuck I can ask this that will direct people into the entrance, the main entrance up here and then through this parking lot. Honestly, we haven't gotten that far. Well, you have the agreement with the former smoke, correct? To pass through.

That's always been a thorn in my side, that parking lot. But anyway, um so it probably be a decent idea to have some direction there for folks coming in. Okay, that's all the questions I have. I do have just one real quick question. In addition to the restaurant turning point, you mentioned there will be an anticipated re retail store as well and it will probably be more like a service retail. Maybe it's a a a phone service store or something along that line. It won't be a doubtful it will be a gift shop or anything like that or a clothing store. Yeah. When when I first saw this, I'm thinking Cracker Barrel.

I'm sorry. No offense, but I I thought Cracker Barrel. That's why I thought when it when there was going to be some kind of retail there. All right. Are there any more questions or comments? No. I have one for Chuck. Um on your write up it mentioned 30 outdoor seating. Is that was an old version or That's been deleted. That Okay, that's what I assumed. I didn't see it on the plan, but I just wanted to make sure. Okay. Thanks. That it. That's it. Okay. Thank you very much.

Do I hear a motion? I guess I'll make the first motion. There's two motions we have to make here on the waivers. Uh that the requested waivers are granted from the subdivision of land development ordinance chapter 185 as noted in the explanation section of this agenda item for the preliminary final land development plan for Hershey restaurant 1221 West Chocolate Avenue plat 1417. Is there a second? And I would just note except for the the possible trees applicant has agreed to look at adjusting and adding a couple more trees. And can we just review that with staff then? Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

All right. Is there a second of my motion? I'll second that motion amended by by Supervisor Ballard. Thank you, Mr. Myers. Uh all those in favor? I I I opposed hearing none. The first motion carries. And I'll make the second motion that the preliminary and final development plan for the Hershey restaurants at 121 West Chocolate Avenue, Plat 1477 is approved subject to compliance with items 1-22 in the department recommendations section of the agenda item. I'll second that motion. Thank you, Mr. Belushi. Um, all those in favor?

I opposed. Opposed? Hearing none. The motion carries. Second motion is approved. Thank you very much. Okay, moving on to the next agenda item. Preliminary and final land development plan for the Hershey Lodge plus plat plat 1418. Mr. Emer.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um uh this plan proposes in addition to the Cocoa Terrace wing of the Hershey Ling will extend into the existing grass and patio areas between two parking areas. The new spa building is proposed to be located where the existing basketball courts are and next to the outdoor pool. The land subject to this development plan is located in the commercial recreation zoning district. Uh the lot that contains the lodge property is 44.08 08 acres, although these this these two developments uh look to only disturb 1.77 acres. Uh the new spa building will have a footprint of approximately 12,000 square ft with a maximum of 25 professionals seeing clients and a two-story 8,548 square foot addition to um the Cocoa Terrace Swing and Conference Center, which will add 162 new conference room seats. The proposed spa is permitted as a customary accessory use for a hotel. The applicant has provided a traffic narrative which shows that a transportation impact study is not required for the project based on the improvements not generating more than 100 peak hour trips. According to the trip generation section of the traffic narrative, the new spa and conference center will uh center expansion will generate an additional 92 trips during the weekday AM peak hours and 92 additional trips during the uh weekday PM peak hours. Uh storm water will be controlled on the site using four new underground storm water management basins. Two of the basins will provide volume control, rate control, and water quality treatment via managed release concept. The other two basins will provide um rate control through detention. This plan also seeks some waiverss of the um subdivision and

land development ordinance uh regarding um the minimum pipe size of 15 in. Um I'll pull that one out separate and say the planning commission did recommend that waiver and HRG the township engineer did not have an issue with it. They've requested a waiver regarding plan scale so that I can show you both projects on one sheet. And we like those waivers that show both projects on one sheet. Uh that one's recommended for granting. Uh they requested a a waiver from showing physical features within 200 feet and 50 feet respectively of the property. And um again they they have that information shown for the development area. Uh they've asked for waiverss regarding um plans and profiles of existing storm water, sanitary sewer, gas, and water facilities that are not disturbed by the property. They've asked for a waiver regarding showing topographic two-foot contours, again within 50 feet and 200 feet respectively, of the property. They've asked for a waiver regarding showing the um restrictions to the use of the land within the total lot boundary. Understanding there's other easements on the property outside of the work area. They've asked for a um waiver of providing a traffic impact study. They've asked for a waiver of providing monuments and markers. And again, this this project has been before the board in multiple cases. I would expect that monuments and markers are there. Um they've asked for a waiver regarding the um providing additional right ofway and cartway width and we've and they've asked for a waiver from uh regarding providing curbing. In each of those cases, the planning commission recommended that the waiverss be granted. Uh they have requested a waiver regarding providing shade trees. The planning commission recommended that the waiver be granted for planting trees

along Cyp Avenue, Governor Road, and University Drive, limited to this project alone, and that the location of the shade trees outside the right ofway proposed along uh West Chocolate Avenue uh be provided um but that they be treated as shade trees in the future. If the board chooses to approve this plot, um I would suggest it be conditioned upon the 19 items listed in my staff comments. That concludes my report. Thank you, Mr. Emer. Thank you. Somebody needs a pointer just in case. Just in case. Are there any how you doing?

Good. Good evening. Chris Brown, director of planning and design for Hershey Entertainment Resorts. And thank you for getting a box for the microphone to sit on. after all the years of doing this. So nice. Thank you. Uh happy to be here. Thanks, Chuck. Great presentation and I'm happy to answer any questions or give you any more um background on our project. We're excited about it. I only have one question. Are there any other questions uh on the board here? I have a a pair of questions. Pair go ahead. No, you go ahead. All right. Well, thanks. Um I guess is there going to be any bicycle parking for the new spa? Yes. Yes, we're providing a new bike rack. Uh it will be up here. Okay. adjacent to the pool, uh, mini golf complex, which will also then be serviceable to the spa area.

Great. I appreciate adding the trees. I was doing some research. These trees are very important to us. Uh, and seems like a few of them have been displaced since I think 2019, so it's good to get some shade trees back in there. Yeah, it's not shown up on here, Rob, but we we're doing 14 along West Chocolate and then we're adding two down here at the Cocoa Terrace expansion to kind of back fill and add some additional canopy into the property. That's great. Um, is there a timetable for this this you have lots of events going on over there. You like So, ideally, we would be opening both projects summer of 27.

So, we'll obviously have to schedule work around some of our events, huh? But we want to the new meeting room space is important. I think it provides a different You guys have probably been to a couple events at the lodge. Not a lot of rooms that have natural light. Uh, this Cocoa Terrace expansion gives some spaces with natural light, which is really keeping us much more competitive in the meeting market. So, we're excited about that. Uh, and the spa gives us a little bit more room for growth and gets people at the lodge the ability to walk there instead of having to get in their car and travel into town. So, downtown has been a great location for us, but as you guys know, it's it's fixed. We can't make it any bigger. So, um, this represented a unique opportunity to redevelop some space at the at the lodge property. Thanks, Chris. That's all I have.

Great. Thank you, Rob. Just have one question. It's not a showstopper. It's just more out of curiosity. Um, I had a little bit difficulty with the the drawings on the my tablet here. Are you going to be able to circumn the property because right now you can go all the way around the property. Rick, you'll come in just like normal. Just like you would normal up around the pool here. What we've done. Chuck, can you kick ahead to maybe I don't know. I jumped ahead. Go one more. I think if you go to 108 it'll be fine.

Yeah. 1071 doesn't It's fine. We can go back. There's a what we've done Rick is we sorry what we've done is we've provided a one-way pulloff here to a dedicated set of space and parking spaces for more the transient guest to be able to pull in drop someone off if you're using ride share you can get off the beaten path but your circulation path Rick still goes around navigate the lodge I missed I missed that on the what I said perfect good question thank you all right

and I just like to again ask for an adjustment to the waiver um regarding the location of the street of the shade trees um as required by our ordinance. Um and I appreciate uh Chuck mentioned 12, but you're saying it's 14 shade trees. Yeah, we actually have 14 or uh there's five, six here, seven down here. The 14th is right there. There's a beautiful oak tree up there. You guys have probably seen it. Great. It's going to be compromised. We're planning to replace it. Good.

So, there's 14 at the spa location. And again, Sandy, you know that space probably better than anybody. The slope drops off pretty precipitously down to to to chocolate. So, we tried to keep them up, tried to space them around the existing trees. And really, honestly, we we left a little bit of a gap because we want this building, we're excited for you guys to see it. It's a really impressive piece of architecture. So, we wanted to leave a little gap in those street trees rather than do the traditional spacing so there is some visibility to the actual building itself. So, that's why if you ask why is there a gap, Chris? We we tried to really fill up the lawn area down here with more canopy and try to really provide some buffer to to the pup put golf area and leave that opening a little bit in the middle. So,

and um as our ordinance requires the shade trees are to be added along all street perimeters. So I I um in particular along CYP I believe you do have some space to add some trees there and I would ask that um those trees be added along CYP and on governor you have some nice sycamores that were planted and I think there is an opportunity to continue that line of sycamores. It may be adjusted outside of the rightway because of Bendot Road, but I think you would be able to add a few more along uh both CYP and Governor Road.

Yeah, I would be happy. Is there number that you're kind of feeling like or you just want to take when I look I mean I I um you know maybe another 12 could be spaced around. All right. Maybe eight. I I don't I mean you have to look how we try to find however between 8 and 12 that makes sense. Yeah. Uh I think there's an absolute opportunity to continue to improve. Um we're we're nothing if not focusing on clean saving and green. So the ability to add more green I think certainly meets the eight and 12 around site coming around like governor and try to just add some and just on that one side because you have side you have parking lot up to the road on the other side. Yeah. Yeah. You're right on that side stuff but we have that walkway. There's nice sidewalk. We can add some more shade. Yeah. Perfect. Not a problem. Love it.

Great. Any other questions? We have any more questions on the board, are you still there? Yeah, he is. I am. I love it. Thank you. That's great. Thank you guys. Okay. Would anybody like to make a motion? Would you like to make a motion since you have some conditions? Um well, no, because I don't have it right in front of me.

I I'll make the first motion. Um thanks. I move that the requested waiverss are granted from the storm water management ordinance chapter 174 and the subdivision and land development ordinance chapter 185 as noted in the explanation uh section of this agenda item for the preliminary final land development plan for the Hershey Lodge plat 14. And I will just add as adjusted by eight to 10 trees. Thank you, Mr. Balicia, and Miss Ballard. And I will second that emotion.

And you're going to second the motion. So, thank you for seconding the modified motion. All those in favor? I I I opposed. Hearing none, the motion carries. So, the first motion uh for the waiverss is approved. I will make the second motion that the preliminary final land development plan for the Hershey Lodge plat 1418 is approved subject to compliance with items 1 through 19 in the department recognation section of this agenda. Thank you, Miss Ballard. Is there a second? I'll second that motion. Thank you, Mr. Myers. All those in favor? I I opposed hearing none. The motion carries. Thank you for your time. We appreciate it.

You're welcome, Mr. Brown. Have a nice evening. Okay. Okay. And our last order of business, this should be tricky. The sketch plan for a proposed mixeduse development, the Grove at Hershey, Mr. Emer, and can I add something on there? Can you provide location for the people that may not know where this is, please? Sure.

This is a very large project. and I tried to be very detailed in what I expressed or shared with the board. So, I'm going to try and highlight many of these things. So, um along Middletown Road,

the King it has frontage along Wood Road. Uh it has frontage along Middletown Road and it has frontage along Grove Street which is across um it's across from

place. So it's it's basically this problem shown here with a different um this plan represents the development of three tracks of land street the three tracks will be joined together totaling approximately 52.13 acres for commercial residential development the tracks are located campus district and are subject to the Middletown Road overlay which requires an additional 15 future portion of the property is also subject which extends 100 property from street residential use proposed on this plan include the development of the ger retail six restaurants and a sea store convenience store which appears to 16 that um this plan also includes 182 residential units consisting of 126 units and 24 family detached or stacked unit all in the proper zoning. Um the non-residential uses in campus west except for the C score would be permitted by special exception I'm sorry the except with the exception of the C scoreed us is required by special exception and the large scale retail which is the brochure building

connected to additional retail. So that that creates a large a building large enough to be considered large scale retail which also

Chuck, sorry to interrupt you. Can you hit the button on your mic? Thank you.

Thank you. My apologies. Um the uh as I've mentioned there would be required to be a zoning change for this development. Uh they would need to obtain the um plan campus west future development overlay and the applicant is aware of that. uh that that change would be supported by our 2015 comprehensive plan um and the 2017 and 2019 zoning ordinances. Um, so when when these were planned, I can tell you that certain tracks um that are presently Planned Campus West were not given the designation of Plan Campus West future development because we were aware of the Hershey West End project and we wanted to see that build out before we enabled more residential development and that's what comes with the future development overlay is the ability to put residential on there. Uh the second reason township um has for many many many years wanted to see this 52 acres developed with commercial uses to that would be supportive of the residential neighborhoods that have built up around this property over over the years. I can say that if the zoning on this property did enable housing, housing would be there today. I mentioned that um with the zoning change and with the mix of uses um the residential uses alone would require a master plan to be developed for the property um which is similar to the way that um Hershey West End was developed. Uh the master plan does uh encourage

homogeneous neighborhoods um and does want uh projects to build their own character. So there's some um considerations that are given for setbacks, height, land disturbance, density, lot coverage, and buffer yard requirements that the that the um developer would need to get approved as part of the master plan. Also with the master plan, we would have architectural design standards and we would know what the site would look like from buildings to open spaces um ahead of approval. That's generally comprised in a what's called a pattern book. Again, it was done that way in Hershey West End. the residential uses on the property. Um the 182 um again would only be permitted as part of the plan campus west future development overlay as part of a master plan process. Um, it requires that um that developments over 25 acres are containing and containing more than 100 dwelling units include a minimum of three types of um dwelling units to provide some diversity and that and that the one of the three can be no less than 10%. the plan is presented does does meet that um burden along with the master plan uh developer is uh afforded a 5% increase in impervious coverage but yet they still have to provide stormwater management for the for the u imperous area. Master Plans border, perimeter border would also be required to have a buffer yard, which in this case would be a 25- foot planted area buffering this this

neighborhood from the adjacent property uh to the east. In February of 24, we made a rather ma major amendment to our master plan require to be provided as open space. I've copied into my staff comments uh all of the open spaces that are required um as part of a development of this nature. And the applicant may want to along with any zoning change request request some consolidation of those open spaces so that it makes a little bit more sense in in development. the roadway network um for the project. I think he's aware of the um endot middletown road corridor plans the rightway um on their sketch plan they have shown the the future rightway although they've not measured their setbacks or the community heritage buffer and th those are mentioned in in the comments. Um for Wood Road, it of course is being realigned as as part of the Middletown Road either either as a centralized intersection or as a roundabout. I quite frankly that this development would uh find more favor with the roundabout uh than a traffic light. I think Eric took a breath to say something.

That's what it looked like. I think Pendot has chosen the traffic light. They have. They have. You are correct.

I felt him jitter over there. Um, so also I mentioned that the that the property has some frontage on Grove Street and there was some discussion uh at the planning commission meeting about providing a connection to the Grove Street. So just just to lay a little bit of background, uh the Grove Street uh was laid out in 1952. It it um provided only lots along the I think that's the western north northern side of Grove Street and did connect the the um culde-sac with adjacent property. as as we look at connectivity through from Middletown Road into the adjacent lands to the east. I'm not sure that connecting to the Grove uh Street is is the appropriate way to get there or extending Grove Street. Um it's certainly a substandard rightway, substandard width, and it has kind of its own character. Um, the board's probably aware that Grove Street is also well separated from this property by the by the not only the walking trail, but there is a very major uh drainage swale that comes down through that would have to be crossed right here if if that connection was made. Um, the Indian Run development, let me think how the best way to lay the foundation for this is the Indian Run development also showed a connecting street to the lands to the east and that was although not pictured well in uh

tax maps uh that that connection would be uh from the one culde-sac. sack. So looking at the Indianrun plans themselves, you can see that this right ofway was specifically pushed to the to the adjacent property for future expansion. Um both our comprehensive plan and our uh official map show a connection to Courtland Circle if if any connection would be would be had out through there. We've we've looked at a Middletown Road bypass for for many many years. Um, okay. Let me just jump back here for one second. So this is this is the connection number 29 here that would come to the culde-sac. But we've um over many years we've looked at a um connection to or through Middletown Road to bypass Middletown Road. And on this plan, this is the Ricker farm. So, the 52 acres that we're talking about is here, but in the oldest of our comprehensive plans, Middletown Road um would have moved to provide some connection out out to the east and then Wood Road would have moved to provide a better connection to the east. uh 1991 I believe comprehensive plan also here's

the Ricker farm showed alternate road connections to to try and get to the east our um compre our present comprehensive plan the 2015 comprehensive plan started and again you know this was done with some knowledge of Hershey West 10 started to to try and push that road um in a more east-west fashion, paralleling Wood Road to to Middletown Road. And then our official map, of course, refined that even a little bit further. Uh when I've mentioned Hershey West End a few times now, when Hershey West End was first done under the master plan, under the master plan process, uh we could require the developer to show what might happen or how this development might connect to to uh undeveloped lands under their control. So if you will, this is Waltonville. This is Bullfrog Valley. So this in in essence is the approved Hershey West End plan. and we wanted to see that they had connectivity. Um, so again, Walton and and in this concept, they were looking at starting to follow one of the comprehensive plans and Pwood Road away from itself and eventually work it out to Middletown Road. So, I'm just trying to lay the the background for for some of the future expansions. Uh they haven't provided any information on the traffic study at this on traffic studies at this point. Um you know assuming that that um the Middletown Road improvements

do solve a lot of the issues there. I think the one remaining issue uh would be as we go out Middletown Road. this left turn, this left turn movement on the the access ramp to get on to 322 is shorter than desired. Um, we are aware that Hmeltown Burough is looking at putting a roundabout in this area that would u really allow people to get make that movement without the stacking needed for the left turn lane. And we're supportive of that project. The plan proposes four connections to Middletown Road. Um it appears that the northernmost driveway to their site that' be this driveway. um is designed as a full movement driveway and their plans and is in alignment with um Gary Place North and I think you know when when you look at the trans sect of their development here they're they have a commercial core and residential neighborhoods on each end. So I I can see that this road would serve the residential areas well, not having to drive through the the commercial core. The next southern way um leads to their main prominade um and is proposed as a rightin, right out only road.

The next southernmost driveway appears to be focused on being their main entrance um coming into a route that would circulate the site. Uh the full movement they're showing a full movement driveway here, but when we go to the to the Pendot plans, uh Pendot is proposing that this portion of Grammy Place be right in right out only. So, uh, there needs to be a little bit more coordination because this will have a median in it and this could not be a full movement driveway. That's this driveway. Um, and then lastly, they are also making a connection to Wood Road, which we like. Um, you know, diluting the traffic and again here, this it is also a connection to the commercial area, which in this case is not a bad thing. It it feels like so many entrances onto Middletown Road does does bear some scrutiny. Uh they've provided a what I consider to be a robust pedestrian network. Pedestrian network they're proposing to tie into the existing Jonathan Esau Trail. The trail head now is about in the area where I have the mouse. Uh PennDOT and they both propose connecting that to Middletown Road. They also have a um if you will a bypass or a roundabout the development bike trail that would then tie into the development and possibly get you out to Wood Road. Um the there's interconnected sidewalks throughout the development. Um, they're showing a sidewalk along Middletown Road, which is required by the ordinance here. I think that they should give some

consideration to having that also be a bicycle pedestrian trail. I think it would serve more people with the with the concentrated neighborhoods in this area of the township. I've offered a few comments related to the zoning ordinance and the subdivision and land development ordinance which I feel like I've said enough. They're in your report. Quite an introduction. The applicant is here. Um, yeah. To answer any questions. You want to step up, guys?

I think some of us know who you are, but I think you should introduce yourselves for the rest of the crew here. My name is Jason and I have with me tonight. He's our He's our engineer. Uh he went to the great Penn State University, did his degree, so he did a lot of um

I appreciate the help. I'm going to need a lot more help out here. Um so, first of all, we're we're extraordinarily grateful that you've made the time to hear us uh and hear what we have to talk about. I think it's really important. I think uh I have to commend your staff for helping to guide us through the process. And there's a couple of things I'd like to try and touch on tonight. First starting with the history of the site, not just our involvement. Um, I'd like to discuss how we came to the conclusion on what we think it should be. Uh, what I've learned is that many times in standing in townships, it's not as much as what I think. It's more about what the township thinks, what the township needs. So, we've been making an effort to try and listen and understand that and help support the direction we'd like to take it in with the mixeduse concept, which is a zoning that already exists in the township. So, we're trying to not be uh make things more complicated, but work within zoning that's already been approved. Um, and last, in order to to get to some result, and again, I think Chuck used the word scrutiny. Uh, we expect there's going to be a lot more scrutiny with this plan if it were to be successful to move forward, is would this board be supportive of a mixeduse um plan? And in order to do that, we would have to do a a map amendment to do that to get there. So, just sort walking through our agenda there. There are a lot of details in the plan. Ryan is very eager to talk about every detail. Um, but we're going to try and keep it as simple as possible. Um, and so Chuck, I don't know if you have uh any series of the history of the plans dating back to the original one that NPI had submitted back in and I now need reading glasses, so bear with me here. Uh, back in 2006. So, starting with a little bit of the history. Go ahead.

March 3rd. March 3rd. Yeah, it's March.

Yeah. While Chuck's looking, I'll do my best to entertain you. Um the the NPI's own property for since 2004, and that's 22 years ago, right? And I thought to myself, where was I 22 years ago? And how much has changed? Uh what brought us to Hershey? Um, we think it's a desirable place as you do too. Um, we think that there's just the way the world is moving and growing and that there can be smart growth and there can be placemaking. When we first identified this property, we saw that opportunity. Um, and Chuck feel it feels like Chuck's getting real close to I see the NPI plan up there. It's the very first one at the top. Yeah. Um, so this is a plan that was submitted in 2006 that you're looking at right now. And this was under the current owner. We are technically the equitable owner at the moment. Um, but this was in 2006. And what this represents is the current zoning that's in place. Uh, very reminiscent of the 2004 market where you had your big boxes, your Walmarts, your Home Depots were popping up. And I think that reflects exactly what that was like at that time. And we're all aware of the global financial crisis occurring. And uh I think that's what put a lot of this on pause. And if you flip forward one more, Chuck, which when we first approached the property, uh our understanding was that there would be a lot of resistance to any level of residential being on the site. So we explored at the time, this was going back a few a while ago. Um, actually it wasn't quite that one, but it was one we

That's what I got.

That's fine. Sorry. I And I uh shame on me. Um, so we took that NPI plan and we redesigned it a bit to try and meet what the market is today for those bigger boxes. Um, didn't feel like that opportunity was out there in the market. And when we started to look through the current Dairy Township zoning code, we had seen what was going on with Hershey Hershey West. And what we've seen in the marketplace in this day and age is that retail really hasn't been building since 20 since 2006 2008. There's not been an explosion of it. And anything that has come out of the ground, it's been the function of being a mixeduse property, which is the ability to support the retail with the rooftops around it. and that becomes very attractive to the services. Um, in our discussions with staff, it became pretty clear that there's a it's very important to the township in order to provide you this site provide the services that are needed by the residents that are around it. So, we took that to heart. Um, and I don't know how many plans you have up there, Chuck, but we I can just tell you real quick. Uh so we g we've gone through up until this recent one almost five iterations that that the township has seen. It's not the number of iterations that we've gone through our on our own. And uh this plan is the if you look at the way the retail is currently set up, it's reflective of some of the um some of the other mixed juice properties that we felt were desirable uh and places that we've been to. you can see, touch, feel, and it is a place of community, is a place of stay. When people come there, they're not just coming there once to pick something up. Um, I want to address, and I I didn't think it was going to be brought up, but the the convenience store, um, that ended up on that plan, this particular plan, and these are, you know, plans can change.

um our understanding that there was uh a little bit of a resistance to opportunities for other types of residential uses such as multif family and so we pulled that off the plan and that was again prior to meeting with this board. That was what we had seen in certain uh changes. So um certainly open to other ideas. Um I'm going to do my best to put the microphone down, but I did want to point one more thing out, Chuck. There's a we did a trail head connection with there with some public parking that if people do come to the site and they do not want to have to migrate into the shopping center. Um we're calling it kind of a Main Street Grove area is the ability to come there, park, get your bike off your car, circulate through the trail system. And with that being said, I'm going to take a step back and would love to get your your feedback. the more feedback we get, the better we can be.

And I I will just add quickly that DP partners have been absolutely wonderful to work with in developing this sketch. They do listen. They do react. Thank you, Chuck. Remember guys that this is just a uh sketch presentation. There's we don't have to make a decision tonight. Yes. You know, so fire away with your questions. I may have missed something. Um, you were talking about the convenience store, which I think also is a gas station there.

Yeah, it's your it's your typical MA and by definition under your code, it's referred to as major uh gas. So, it would be a typical uh convenience store that you would see of any one of the majors out there. I thought at the same time you talked about um more dense housing or was that two separate thoughts that

So when we were developing the plan uh we know a convenience store is marketable here all all day long. There's no question we know that for a fact. Um the zoning code right now has a limitation on the number of pump handles that the township can have and this runs a little a foul of that limitation. It would be it would have been an ask but in order to bring that convenience store there in lie of some other more dense housing such as a multif family building an apartment building. So, it's just been part of the discussion we've been having and trying to get a sense of where the board's uh thoughts are.

I'm again still confused. Yeah. So, I think what I think there's I'll speak for myself and maybe some of the other board members, but I know we're we're looking some of the things that we heard on the campaign trail is uh a lot of our children go away to college and then they can't afford to move back. So, and I think the statistics have said that there's just not a lot of um I guess obtainable attainable housing. Yes. Uh in in the in the township. So, that's definitely something that we we've been considering in a lot of the projects that we've been seeing.

I would I would Mr. Myers, I would say to you, you're not alone in that struggle. So, uh my partner and I, we both live in Chester County. Um our offices are in Malver. We live in Malver. Um it is extraordinarily difficult for that re I call it the return to nest where people want to we're very paroial we want to we want to go back to where we grew up after maybe visiting the city or something and right uh they have a the barriers to entry have become higher and higher

and and I think um I again speaking for myself but another thing that I and I think others care a great deal about is um growing up rather than out to some extent. that, you know, we keep covering up more and more of our open space with cement and and parking. When you can grow up, um you may be um able to increase the density without hurting the storm water and the open space.

It's uh apprec I appreciate that comment. We'll take that, too. I know Ryan's sitting back here taking copious notes, so I'm getting a feel for You mentioned I guess you're from Westchester. Um I feel like I I've been to something that has a feel this kind of feel in the Westchester area and I the name of it escapes me. There's uh I would say in in our area, not far from us, there are a few things that have been developed recently that look and feel a lot like this that not only do we admire, but we actually utilize and enjoy. So,

which have a nice comfortable feel to it, the restaurants and the everything but the convenience store. Not that that's a forgone problem for me, but I I don't remember seeing a convenience store there. But I I the town houses, the restaurants, the you know the the green space, the the nice vibe that feels like a small neighborhood within the town.

And I agree with you and not to oversell it, but the way that this site plan lays out, there's opportunity for gathering, right, where you have whether it's a little bit of live music or reasons to get together and it's easy for people. It's attractive to me. I can walk out my front door, I can go get my groceries, have food and beverage, get other services, uh, and then also have some reason to gather and entertain. And I think that's what kind of I use the word placemaking opportunity that that becomes. And when you're in a growth area like Dair is using to your point, uh, Miss Ballard, is that, uh, having some smart growth that way and using some of these different, um, corners of open space as active space. So, in order to activate it. So, but agree with you,

Jason, didn't you provide us with an example down your way? I I did. What was the name of that? It escapes me. That might help Mr. Beluchcci here. It it it's uh it was Ellis Preserve Ellis Preserve that I think I think very highly of. Yes. Yeah. If you take a look at that, it's it's really something really well done. Architecturally nice. Yeah. Uh they have and you brought up breakfast and I was listening to the other uh you know the idea when we

when you approach a site like this, it's extraordinarily important that we curate the site with the different types of tenants. Um, we've been in lease up situations where we have some really good credit tenants, but they just don't match up with the rest of the uses. So, part of the art of that is to make sure that they're all feeding off of each other at the right time where you may have some evening uses and you've got some more daytime breakfast uses that are offsetting. And I know Ryan's desperate to talk about how we've overparked this at this point, but u keeping that in mind is that, you know, we're going to focus on making sure that people come, they come there and if you look at King of Prussia Town Center, which is another one, which is a very big one, um it has to be easy for people, right? It has to be easy to park. Um that's an entirely different conversation for more scrutiny, but um that's the that's the thinking behind it.

I'm sorry. Do you guys have any more questions? I mean, I have some. I have quite a few questions, but I don't know if this what kind of interrogation we're at this point. Well, they're they're trying to take notes on on making this better, this sketch better for all of us to So, knock your socks. And I have Ryan here, so if I have to tag him in, I'll I'll do because I got a bunch of questions, too. So, I'll just kind of go down my list. Um, I guess I was curious what the traffic operation of that that centerpiece you have in there. It looks very from a traffic operation. I I just don't know how that traffic flows into that

that I know I just I know the traffic circle, but that main area that has the five parking spots and the the crisscrossing of the the trails in front of the grocery store, the the plaza area. Oh, so so the pla so the plaza area. So parking would go up to it, stop, right? It wouldn't be a pass through between the two. So you have that that that remains isolated to pedestrian only. All right. All right. That's why I was a bit confused because it looks like the parking you could just drive right up into it. All right. That's not park. Not parking. Okay. It said the five parking stalls and I was a little confused that traffic would be maneuvering in there.

Yeah. I mean they are techated as parking stalls right now. That's the central area where It's a grocery area. So that's going to be primarily drop off today. So the the green area being the gathering area. Yeah. Yeah. I just was I don't have the widths on the roads. Um so I was just curious how that would be. I think they're just through roads because here's a through road to the parking this parking area and it's a pickup here and maybe these are just like waiting areas. But there is you can drive through there. Yeah. But yeah, you can you can go I don't know if it's well whatever. This isn't complete.

It is it will be available for cross circulation. I mean it there will be cross circulation two-way traffic available. Once again I think that this is probably getting a little bit more into land development level of detail but I can appreciate the question where um and then uh if speaking of parking if we've given any thought to the backend parking you know that's something that these stalls are pool in. I don't know if back in is maybe it's not efficient enough, but for all these pedestrians that we want to come walking around, I think it might be safer for for that route. Um, if it's worth noting, I always back in typically statistically safer.

Yeah, especially if people in restaurants, not saying that they would embibe, but it's easier to pull out Ford. Um uh then one thing that I was curious about the one parking lot to the northeast behind the retail that's 999 and 1,200 12,000 square feet. It doesn't look like there's any entrances there. That seems like a lot of parking for what would probably be employees like there. Yeah. So that the idea I mean any retail center you're going to have kind of your service area, your back of house, loading, unloading, trash, employee parking. So that upper right quadrant area that's zoomed in there, that's going to be your back of house. So that's not really going to be much. You see like a lot of space for

and it's all driven by trucks. You can see the trucks that are parked eventually see those truck movements that seems like difficult little maneuvers for them to sneak in there. Yeah, we have some behind the scenes very involved truck circulation, but I mean that's really it it demonstrates feasibility. Okay, excellent. Um, and then I guess from a township's perspective, what roads would we be on the hook to maintain within this parcel? Typ typically the way we handle these developments, the dedication is an option for the township. Okay. So we when we get to that point, hopefully we are at that at some point in time that that would be the option of the township to decide. Interesting.

Otherwise, it would typically be handled by the owners association that we developed this car. And one thing to add to that, the so I guess it'll be Grammarcy North. So the the driveway, the main access, but there will be an option that will be subject to a much bigger discussion. That's the that that road proposed roadway can continue up onto the and provide that cross connection to Ricker Farm. Okay. Which I know that's an interest of the community and town. Interesting. Um, and then how for the the more residential areas, what's the the the road that you have through there?

Those are 24 foot 2425. The code the code standard for the, you know, two-way traffic. So, believe it's 24. Sure. there's a a way we could discuss that to make it more neighborhoodly by narrowing some of those side side roads. But again, that's a discussion we'll have with Chuck. Um and maybe maybe over the bounds of I think we do we discussed speed humps or something in there at one time. I don't remember. Well, uh there's we discussed some levels of road dieting and I again I'd love to start getting into those. Yeah, absolutely. that was directly at him anyway. So,

but I think we are Yeah, we too would um I speaking for myself, I would, you know, strongly encourage smaller roads that force cars to go slower as opposed to a speed hump or some other unnatural sign or something, you know, a smaller narrow road would be my preference. whichever way we accomplish that. And I heard you talking about your trees and I I I read your bio. So, uh I know it's important. It's not lost on me. Um and uh uh but there there's a lot of ways to do that road dieting, even if it's adding internal medians that are planted or things like that that

yeah, we would love to work on. Then I think the last one is just the the spaces between the the houses. I mean the the units seems like there's enough to sneak one more in. I know I don't I guess is there a reason for that? I know we trying to get like let's pack everything we can in here, but just curious if there was like a design aspect or like just uh like the units kind of on the more the the row home type spaces. It seems like there's enough space to stick another unit in there because I know we're about 70 units shy of what we can maximum in there. I'm not saying we have to hit the full maximum pass. You saying the purple ones or the purple ones or even the the light blue ones there's looks like there's Oh, okay.

space just enough to have a Yeah, we targeted 20 ft, which I mean anywhere between 10 and 20 feet is your standard gap between multif family units. So, I mean, we we have a good feel for how this site looks in three dimensions. So, grading, but we haven't fully gone through and grading storm water, all the additional engineering detail. But I mean, we wanted to present something that's feasible, that's realistic, that could be built um subject to the various engineering and further analyses that are addressed at land development.

And by the way, Mr. Mars, I I want to touch on something that Chuck had brought up. Uh under the current code, there's a there's a a good it was a good intent was a requirement of a certain percentage of mixture between the different unit types. So, that's what this reflects as well. Yeah. No, I appreciate that. Yes. Uh, that's all the questions I have. I appreciate your effort bringing this to the board and extra time. I just have a real quick maybe question or two. Jason, I was looking at your you guys bio as well. And um, I like the fact that, you know, in your bio there's a mention of you guys trying to create projects that that have have sold, which is important to this community. this, you know, a lot of us,

you know, have have been here a long time or have been away and then came back and it's a tight-knit group here. Do you guys have a a kind of like a target audience that you're looking to draw into this um development? You know, like I'm talking 182 potential residential units. Um, you know, is there a dynamic that you you anticipate trying to draw? I I think if you go through it's the people that live here. We we we did a deep dive on the demographics that are here, right? There's there's great income. There's a lot of good things that are here, but what we see where we're from is and this is I have my wife's a teacher, right?

She on her own couldn't live where we live, right? Uh but she works where we live. And the same thing for a lot of other people who are in on that need that and why do they have to live 50 miles away from where they work. Um you have all the other emergency services whether it's nurses not just doctors.

Um and but it's a place where everyone also can be a part of the same community. So I think getting that correct mix right and working with the market studies that we've done already um I think we can do a deeper dive on what that unit mixes can possibly look like. And if you look at I have the privilege of having the roster of tenants that we've been looking at and there's a lot of there are a lot of really good options and once one brick falls in they all start to line up and so you can expect a full you know from breakfast, lunch, dinner, shopping um

trying to frame that out without speaking out of turn. Uh, but I like I like where we're at with that and that's what's keeps advancing us and being here right now, too. So, if we didn't think it was executable, we would have been we'd have been gone plan two with, you know, great to meet you, Chuck. And um, so it's it's been well circulated at this point. Appreciate it. All right. Now, I got a few questions.

Jason Ryan, I some of these questions I'm going to ask I've already asked them in in other sessions, but I want these to be public. Um, it Chuck noted that uh you haven't done a traffic comp impact study yet. I get that. Uh, has penned up and notified or have you talked to them, began any conversations with them about the potential for this?

So, so we have not gone back to them to do any scoping with them. uh and only because we have to be able to sit down with them with them and say this is what we believe we're going to build. We like to try and avoid some false starts with them uh because then we lose credibility and the next time we want to schedule that meeting it becomes more difficult. I think what I was getting at was just opening up a dialogue that was we've talked to them. They're aware of this. Uh we have made comments to um when they were going through we had commented on their decisions that they made recently. So they're aware that we're out here. Um, and we came to some of the meetings that they had here for open houses and uh, our traffic engineer was here for that and had conversations with the project manager for this Middletown Road project.

Probably not the same lang probably not the same language I was using with them. Um, is there any are we talking about potential for widening Wood Road? I saw that in there. So that would be a requirement by code, right? That it come up to would that be the whole of Wood Road or just a portion of it? the it's only their property frontage. So it would only be half of Wood Road as it contact. No, no, half width. Half width. Oh, I'm sorry.

Okay. Um Grove Street improvements. I saw you going through that. Uh instead of paving it and and making it a through straight, is there a way that we can only make that residentonly street? because I I I fear that I'm trying not to get into land development here, but this it it drew my attention to it. I think it's it's so close it's proximity proximity to the property itself is going to draw people to want to park there and walk over. So, if there's something we can do with that, um,

yeah, I think that's something possibly no parking signs. I I'm surprised they're not there. Yeah, but then that that uh kind of puts some of the res. I I think I think if we work with staff to evaluate that, I think we could probably come up with some ideas. So, I took the note about the Grove Street residential only and that could be that could be part of the bigger public parking uh area near the near the trail head. There was that designated public parking area which I mean that's really a placeholder right now, but I think that a little bit more thought and discussion can go into Sure. the size of that and really direct. Just wanted to throw it out there.

Yeah. Um, Chuck, did we talk to Dair Township School District to let them know the possibility of adding 182 new residential units? We're kind of early in the game for that. I They're building a school right now. Might not be a bad idea to talk to them. Um, I saw on there that Pendot's going to be changing some right ofways within the property that you're talking about. Is that going to adjust these plans, your plans up here to a point where they're going to be nonfunctional or or you're not going to be able to do what you want to do?

At this point, I couldn't answer that. Brian and I have discussed it and I think that requires further evaluation on our end and again eager to get a sit down, get our scoping meeting set up with them. um sooner rather than later. Obviously, it's um but yeah, it's on our it's very much on our list. Okay. All right. That's all the questions I have right now. Thank you. You guys have any more questions? Chuck, I have one. Do they comply with open space? That was a little confusing based on your write up. They do not. So they don't have fair to say

they don't have the 25% set aside for open space. Do you comply with open space? So along with the ordinance amendment and it's pretty well actually Jason did a really great email that I just copied into my staff comments, but there's there's o we we limit or prohibit open space on stormwater management facilities. They have some underground ones. So their question was, well, can we open space under an under you know over and underground? not by the ordinance the way it's written today. So I I believe that they're deficient the 25% and I assume

of regulatory because you can't you can't use the setback area either for open you know I mean there's there's so many restrictions on the open space that it it makes it very difficult to comply. So, but the reason why I bring this up is they're going to need either an ordinance change or a variance, right? And they're also going to need a waiver to the 15% under the SAO 15%. SAO requires 15% re, you know, the open space regs con state in that they're in addition to the salo reg. So if the SAO regs apply, they're going to need an additional 15% or a waiver to those regs.

For the for the SAO regs, we would typically collect a fee in lie of as there wouldn't probably be a public park incorporated in here. So that would make that okay. So that there there's a fee in lie of process there. Okay. And Mr. Also, if I could highlight one thing for you, uh Ryan was tasked with coming up if we were to completely comply

with the open space and if you were also to calculate the net outs as well as the stormwater facilities, it equates to approximately 50% of the site. So, that becomes a challenge and and again having the privilege of the the problem is the privilege, right? Well, we get into the townships and we start going through these codes and we start wondering how some of these things get addited and sometimes they get added over time or as a project comes up some of these challenges get get founded get found out right at that point. Does the Hershey's West End project comply with the open space? Hershey's West End project was approved under the prior master plan requirements. Okay.

And continues under those prior requirements as a continuation of that. So, this the the new the new master plan requirements have not been tested on a plan as of yet. Okay. Interesting. All right. Any more questions, concerns? Jason, Ryan, thanks very much. Look forward to seeing the completed project. Thanks for your attention. Thanks for your time. Yeah. Have a great night. Yep. You too. That concludes our agenda for this evening. Our next order of business is board and department head reports. I will start at my left to Mr. Belaluchcci. I have nothing to report.

Thank you, Mr. Belaluchcci. Mr. Curado in the distance. Nothing to Nothing to report. Thank you. Thank you very much. Ms. Ballard, what do you got for me? Nothing to report. Wow, this is an easy board tonight. Mr. Myers, what do you got for me? Nothing to report, but we are bringing back the bike to school day on uh May 6th. So, be aware of that. More information to come. Thank you very much, Mr. Myers. Why did I say something? And I have nothing to report to. Uh, moving on to our department heads, Dair Township Police Department, Chief Warner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have nothing for tonight.

Oh, thank you very much. library. Miss Jacobine. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to issue a thank you to everyone who assisted with the Kate Quinn author event that the friends hosted this past Saturday. We had over 300 people at the Hershey High School. Was very well attended and it was very wellreceived. So, thank you to everyone who made that possible. Wonderful. Thank you. And I I don't see Miss Walker there, so I know she's taking a timeout. Mr. Sassman,

thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh just two quick things. Uh last evening the fire department in their training came over to the public works department uh where we acquired a new a car simulator that was done or donated through Elizabeth Town College. So it's actually propane driven fire and it allows them to uh work on car fires and gain those skills and um different assets of of that kind of attack for the for the members. So that's been uh it was its first night of use last night and everything went very well. So, we're very uh proud of that. And are you gonna bring that to National Night Out? So, what's that? I'm sorry. Are you gonna bring that to National Night Out? Um, probably not. I think it's pretty stationary.

Um, and also the, uh, second new engine is in PA. It's actually Glick Fire. It's also known as a TAC 48. Um, so if you're used to the bigger white four-wheel drive unit that we have, uh, that's the the truck that it'll be replacing. It'll now get uh lettered equipment mounted and then it will come to us. Wonderful. So that's all I have. Thank you, Mr. T. Thank you. Appreciate that, Miss Walker. I thought you walked out on me there. Sorry. I'm trying to trying to stay awake over here. Take take your time. Take your time. No hurry.

Uh just a quick update for parks and recreation. So gearing up for some of our uh annual spring events. The first one being the 51st annual fishing derby which will be held Saturday, May 2nd, 8:00 am to 10:00 a.m. This is for ages um anyone under 12, 12 and under for the event. Um it's no registration required, free to attend. Um and we look forward to seeing everyone on May 2nd. You supply the worms.

Zach's looking at me about this event. This is I really enjoy this event, but I am not typically a fisherman. We do not supply the worms, so you can bring your own worms for the event, but there are a lot of great prizes donated by the um Hershey homelesstown Huanas Club, so great. Always really exciting. Great. Thanks, Miss Walker. Since Mr. Watts is in here tonight, he decided to take a vacation. Um Mr. Sump, what can I do? What can you do for us? Nothing to report for me tonight. Sounds good. Mr. Emer, you've talked enough tonight. I'm gonna apologize to my co-workers for making sit through that. All right, Mr. Jackson.

Nothing other than uh thank you for the approval to sell the fire apparatus. So hopefully we can get that out of get that out of your guys' space over there. Make way for the new one. Great. Well, that was easy. Okay, this uh the end of board reports and supervisor reports. That opens up this opens up our second uh com public comment session. If you'd like to say something, please step up to the mic, introduce yourself, and speak away.

Hi there. Uh my name is Lee Sheileely. I live on Grammarcy Place, and I just wanted to mention that uh when this plan comes back, it should be noted that just beyond the right side of the screen where all of the residential parts were is a sheets, so a convenience store gas station. So, that is probably something that should be thoroughly worked out in terms of traffic before it is finalized. Thank you. I'm sure I'm sure PennDOT thought about everything. Yeah. Thanks. Chuckle, chuckle. Yes. Anybody else? Mr. G.

Okay. Take a break. Uh it seems like certain members of our community are using this as a platform to get involved politically. Now we hear the term immigrant. Are we saying illegal immigrants or illegal immigrants? Who's afraid? I've yet to see anybody. Now I think one in 10 are immigrants, but I'd like to let you know I'm an immigrant. I'm the great great grandson of a European immigrant. So to identify and say they're afraid, why don't we have some type of forum where we invite these people, not their representatives to come in with their platform, but here, what are they afraid of? I'll ask the our police chief, have you had any complaints about your officers attacking anybody or intimidating them or causing fear? This is what we need to hear. What is it? What are they talking about? What are they afraid of? My theory is if you did nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about. But if you're wrong, you better worry. So, if we could set up some type of a form with all the supervisors present, Derry Township School Board present, and invite these people in who say they're afraid and identify what are they afraid of. So, I hope we can take this political platform and put it to bed. I'm tired of coming to a township meeting and listen to a politics. We're not politicians. We're here to serve the people of the community and their needs. But if there's an issue regarding fear, the way people are being treated in our township, then it's a police matter. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Gamble. Anybody else? Oh, boy. A new guy. Good evening. Dave Fischer, 1149 Dartmouth Road, Hmeltown. Just want to take a moment to recognize and thank Greg Watts in the Department of Public Works

for an issue that he took care of in our neighborhood. Um, I know he's not here tonight, but I hope he gets this message. Um, about a year ago, a utility company came Dartmouth Road. We live on Dartmouth. And, um, when they were finished with the trench digging, most of the most of the trench was on Dartmouth, a little bit hanging out into the Middletown Road. When they were finished, they did the temporary fill. I know that's part of the procedure, temporary before permanent. And it started to sink almost immediately. um and uh becoming a in my opinion a safety hazard in addition to a nuisance for anyone turning from Middletown Road onto Dartmouth. Um as it became more of an issue, I decided to contact Mr. Watts and uh give him a few details about this within he wasn't in his office, but within 24 hours of my contact, he returned the call. My wife and I were very impressed with that that he took that amount of time with all the duties and responsibilities that he does uh and all the roadways he's responsible for. He's he's worried about a section of roadway. Very very minute section of roadway. Um almost made it feel almost made us feel like that was his neighborhood he was protecting and had an interest in. Very good feeling. Very impressed with that. Um over the past several months we've been in contact, Mr. Watts and I have been in contact and um not a whole lot of action has been taken on it, but just about two weeks ago, it has been patched permanently and sealed. It looks very, very nice. And I just want to take this opportunity to tell the board that my wife and I and the neighborhood around Dartmouth Road really appreciate his efforts in um the perseverance he did with the utility company in trying to make the roadway a better place and accomplishment accomplishing our objective in a uh mutually satisfactory manner. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Fischer. Uh Mr. Jackson, would you mind conveying our Mr. Fishers thanks and well absolutely I'll pass that along to public works and yeah thank you for passing that along and for sitting almost two hours here to do that too uh is impressive on your end. So thank you. All right. Anybody else? The board is going to have to go back into an executive session to discuss litigation matters. Okay. And that's where we'll go right after this. Okay. Looking for a motion for adjournment. I'll make a motion to adjurnn. I'll second. Thank you ladies and gentlemen. All those in favor? I opposed. Opposed

hearing none. Surprisingly, this meeting is adjourned. Thank you for coming. Have a pleasant evening.