Historic District Commission - Regular Meeting

All right. Apologies for the dub slay. Let's call the meeting to order at 9:08. Um, hi John. Hi, Russ. Wherever you are. Oh, and is Deb here? Raone, but I can't hear you. Yes. Good morning. Okay. So, uh, we have Did you hear what he said, though? He can see, but not hear. I'm sorry. He said he could see us but not hear us. Can you hear us? No, he can't hear us. Can you I I can see and hear you. Fine. Okay.

Uh I was I'll text on his end. Yeah. Can you hear us through the phone? Oh, he's hung up on the phone. The phone is hung up. Do we get more off the back? We can get this fixed. Deb, are you on? Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Russ texted him. So,

sorry speak but can't hear. Hi. Hi. Are are the microphones green? They are green. Russ can hear us. Do you want to just put that on the thing for now? We're not gettingation and I'll go back and see. Sure. How's that, Russ? Yeah, I can hear you fine now. Okay. It's a bandaid, but we'll Okay. Thank you.

All right. Finally, let's call to order. Um um with with both Devon, who who's first building? Um that would be um um Curly. Okay, Curly, you're on for the whole meeting. Julie, you're here be when Russ isn't here. You're on when Russ isn't here. Okay. Um uh approval of the March 9th meeting minutes. Is there a second?

I wasn't here. Oh Russ, Deb, can you second the approval of the minutes? I will abstain. I missed that meeting. Okay, that wasn't there. Russ seconds. Yes, Russ. Okay. Um, all in in favor I I I Curly and Deb, are you abstaining? I don't think I can vote if I wasn't here. You just abstain.

Yeah. Okay. Uh so the motion carries three to zero with two abstensions. Uh well we don't we're jerryrigging the vocal. We have to operate through the phone because see your speakers are on though. I know but they're not working. See how Russ is set. Oh Russ is not Russ. That's why I think it's working now. I think it's Yeah. You just walk in the room and it's cured. Thank you.

Okay. Any public comments? Uh co-chairs report. Russ, do you have anything? Uh I don't have anything at the moment. No.

Uh I'd just like to mention uh a few things. Um the Halls Road sidewalk committee has been constituted. I think there is only one vacancy. Um there at least the public announcement has no chair. Uh members include um Tim Griswald, Robin Breeding. Um so once there's a chair uh Russ or I will be in touch with the chair just to tell them that we have a a voice in this and open open lines of communication. Uh I also spoke with Eric Knap who uh told me that there is a special zoning meeting later this month. I forget the exact day to work out uh talk not yet about anything substantive but work out the procedures for meeting with town boards and commissions about the new zoning regulations. Um and we're right right back on time. That's all I had. Um, so Wendy and Dave, um, are you here first about the dumpster? Yes. Well, come up and some handouts here for you guys.

So, just as a refresh, uh, we rescended our COA from, uh, the previous one for the dumpster. Uh we had some things we had to work out and also from some advice from our electrician and different people vendors uh we had to make some changes. So we have a new COA and the changes and that you brought that with you. Thank you. Is this is this going to be on the same site?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's probably about 15 foot difference from before. Or it So really simple um the size proposed is exactly the same as we discussed before which is on the first page. Um the second page is uh on the sidewalk. Uh you can see the corner of Sill House. I purposely did that so you can see the pink where the dumpster is. And then the third page is just an AI rendering of uh we've all seen the containers that you can put uh dumpsters in or the ones you have at your house just the regular garbage cans. So the proposal is to build one with the same trim profiles, color, wood, everything that the academy has. So it really just blends in and it just looks like it's part of the building. Um reason being the other locations or all the areas around it. Um we have to have certain clearance for electrical with the with things that are there. We have light poles. We were not going to go moving all that stuff.

Um and then also talking to the dumpster company. We have to be in a place that is acceptable for them to pick up when there's snow and stuff like that. So, um, so this is, so we're where from this is the the generator that it's it's no longer right next to the correct. Yeah.

You mean transformer, right, John? The transformers. Yeah. Y comments, questions? We'd also be building it uh in-house because myself and one of our other facilities members uh or was previously licensed in Boston or Massachusetts contractor and he's he is as well down here. We've built custom cabinets and decks and built-ins and all that stuff. So, we're we're going to just do it in house. Um, but it will look very similar if not. Uh, and what's the what's the top of that?

So, the top's going to be uh black. Is that the same sort of material is on the roof? So, I don't know that we're going to put roofing on it. I think we're just going to paint it probably paint it black. Yeah. Right. The AI wouldn't let me really get I'm not that good at it and AI is not that great yet. Um, but yeah, I think the top is just going to be uh the the idea is that it's similar or the same as the ones that we've all seen on Home Depot or whatever with just a flip top that would flip up. And do you have a dimensions for the um with the outside?

Yeah. So, it's basically it's actually the AI drawing uh was a little big and I couldn't get it to shrink down, but it's just going to be a foot larger than the dimensions you see on the first page with the gentleman standing next to the dumpster. Roughly to that, just enough so that the company can open the doors and pull it out. So, the goal is to have it be as small as PO. It's literally a foot probably. And is that a do the blacks rectangle in front. Is that a door?

Yeah, it would just um it's probably going to have to be two just for weight purposes. Like it's hard to get that drawn into, but yeah, it would just be two doors, which is actually what the doors on the this section here. Those are two. Okay. So, same same material. Yep. Just blend into the building. Yeah. Yeah. The goal is I mean I try I I went out into the street to find the most visual view and took and used that. We'll call it the worst view, you know, the most visual.

Um so that this is where you would see it the most. And I I feel like if you see that box there built, I mean, you're going to just think it's there's a lot of um a lot of planes in that area, right? There's flat roof, there's regular roofs, there's doors. Um, so it's just going to bl it'll probably just I mean it's going to look like it's part of the building from the from the street, you know. Does it fully uh does it fully screen the uh dumpster on all sides? And and what's the material? And unfortunately, I can't see the uh the print out. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah,

just want to make sure it's fully screening the uh dumpster from all um all viewpoints. Correct. So, it's going to be a box that it fits in with a front door that would open and then the idea is to use exactly the same uh materials. So, I didn't measure yet, but if the trim is 5 and a half inches on the building, we're going to do the same profiles. Perfect. Um on on the on the on this Y. Great. Good. Thank you. I'm good. Yeah. Okay.

Right. So I I move that we accept the u the CLA as uh presented with the um profile of the new dumpster ex to not to exceed one foot on either on any of the dimensions beyond the size of the dumpster. And we should since there's no written description add in on the condition that the materials that are used match those of the building behind it. Um both both the the the doors to match the doors uh to the it'll be to the left on the on the main building. Yeah.

And the wood uh siding that's not to exceed one foot would match the vertical labs on the on the building. Yeah. That's correct. Second. Early seconds. Further discussion. Any comments from the audience? All in favor? I I I I Dev, are you voting? In favor, Deb. Yes. In favor.

Oh, in favor. Okay. The motion carries. 500 Z and Russ has to leave. So Julie, you're on. And Russ, try to rejoin if you can. Okay. Um and then stay right here. Stay right here. We can make some room for the chairs up here if you want.

So yeah, come on up. So, you all know that we uh LM Academy has purchased and acquired the property next door, 80-1. Uh super exciting for the academy to be expanding its campus. Um we had zoning approval two weeks ago, I believe. Um maybe three now. Um so, making our way around. Um but everything is exciting. So the um the barn is going to be part of our educational operations. The house has the um vision of the the residence being used for a hospitality fellow which will be somebody associated with the school to help host social events and hospitality type things and then also um visiting faculty in terms of spaces to stay in terms of uh the apartments that are available on the campus. So um we're super excited. It's still vacant right now. It's going to begin to see some work in the future, hopefully very soon. Um, but I if you haven't met uh Jeff and Mary Oh, I'm in between you guys. Um,

as Mary Wilson. Yeah, that's Mary Wilson and Jeff Riley who are the architects of the um plans to renovate. So, I'll let them take it from here. And we're also the grand we're we're the donors. We're the occupants. We're the architects. It's here. We are. It's an amazing gift. So, our pleasure. We're great supporters of the academy to the academy and the town. I'm I'm just curious. This is not on the on the merits of what you're doing, but where is the land trust property that abutts

these? I um I don't I don't know. It says ab budding and and opposite property owners. Is it the Oh, land the land trust is down by the river. It's the wet the back. Oh, the back little bit. Yeah. Yeah. There's direct water I call it water access in the rear of the property beyond the on the south west corner as

as I understand stand it. Um, only the driveway planter is currently visible from Lime Street. And I guess my question is because we usually don't consider CFA applications for project structures that are not visible. However, if the reason it's not visible is plants, um I do I do think we may want to consider that because some of the plants are deciduous. If the plants die, I mean,

it's like if it if it could be visible. So, are are there any parts of this that would be completely shielded by the Dennis house? Yeah. Or or fences or other existing that's going to overload you with maps and drawings and everything, but nothing that we always want to be more we wanted we assured you last year that we'd be more forthcoming and transparent moving forward so you can guide us along the way.

I I just want to make a quick comment and I will let you run with it. Uh the uh bordering the the trees that co that prevent the view are definitely if one ever did die or anything happened to them, they've probably been there now for 30 or 40 years looking judging by the height, but they're specifically there to border and screen the two properties that I know for a fact the owner in the front wants and always will have. Um, and I do believe they are on his property. The Dennison.

The Dennisens. Yeah. Just just as a side, you know, they're not hydrangeas that are just someone plant. They're very specific to screen uh tactfully, not not you know. So I realized that at the scale that you have and you can't see I made slightly bigger versions of it and unfortunately

I have enough. Um, so, uh, what I what I've done the the second page in the first page is just the existing second page. You see the little blue arrows. Um, by the way, just so you u Mary and I are both architects and I founded Centerbrook Architects who you might know back in 1975 and I'm now retired and Mary is retired. No, you're not. But we're not we're not tired.

Just not getting

just retired. Um so the little blue arrows are the photos that follow. And um the h the Dennis house is the um lovely beautiful um kind of mustard colored house right in the front right here. and it blocks I would say 90% of it. But if you look at the second page, this page here, you'll see the Dennis and House on the right hand side of that photo. And then what Dave was referring to that whole row um that it looks like a black line, a black wall there. That's all um actually several layers of evergreen trees

and some of it is Dennis and some of it is the lime academy and it's if anything happened to any of those trees it's getting replaced immediately. What trees? Um they're hemlocks and um I think there's some pines in there but it's all it's all ever mixed. Okay. This is in the middle of winter, you can see. And and uh it's the entire it's their entire property line. Really? Right. Well, there's a fence. Yeah.

On one side and and um and then and then it's evergreens and um the And so if you go to the the site plan here, you'll see photo number one, the arrow And then you can see all of these trees here. That's how thick the um the growth is in there. It's it's very dense. Um and there are two I I I listed these in terms of projects. Project A is the little planter out here that you can see from the street, but all we're doing there is just taking a a big circle of stones and making it slightly smaller and putting a tree in the middle of it because believe it or not, you can't get a car out of the garage. I think when Gail Borrow um made that big circle, he made it large enough to handle a huge sculpture which is now gone because uh he he took it.

Um Dawn Redwoods. I saw you were going to plant a Dawn Redwood there. Did they do well here? Oh yeah, we had we had one in our yard that exploded in the field by when it was hit by lightning. But my only comment is they get huge. They get very big. But we we there's lots of room for it. And and the nice thing about it is as they get tall, the lower trunk is gorgeous. It it's very sculptural. And and and uh there's a picture of if you look in here,

you'll see the lower trunk here. This picture here there. It's really a beautiful tree. And um but they are it's a redwood. I mean, at some point, I guess you take it down. I don't know, but not in my lifetime. Um, but there uh and we actually had hoped to be here last December and have the tree planted by now. It's sitting up at Ball right now, waiting for its turn be in into the ground. Um so uh the two projects C and D um are hidden by the both the Nison house and this um forest of evergreens here. Project E, which is um really a a deck and a porch, um would almost not be visible even in any case. And then project B, which is a front porch uh and a canopy for the front entrances. Um that's actually tucked behind Dennis House and uh and then there's some trees that that Lime Academyy's main campus has here some evergreen trees here. So, it's pretty well um hidden and and and as Dave said, I think any trees that come down are going to get almost immediately replanted. But, nonetheless, we want it to be beautiful whether you can see it or not. And our whole goal is is um is to have the

um because we are as as as Wendy said, we're the um hospitality fellows at the at the academy. So we anticipate having um students come over and we want a nice entrance. Right now, the front of the house is really quite unappealing, and so we thought um having an offering of a canopy at the front door would make it feel more inviting and welcome.

What would that look like, a canopy? Yeah, it so um again you if you go to the last page um it's it's a just a flat roof canopy with a a mahogany um fascia

and then mahogany columns that come down and what we want is a um you know it's it's a modern house I mean by the the ranch house basically. But um uh what's what it's lacking is any kind of detail or shatter lines that would be typical of colonial beautiful crafted colonial houses. So we wanted to get some kind of shadow lines and texture from sunlight on the front of that building and that that was the main thing. And then we wanted a sense of welcome of some some kind of cover that if you're standing there waiting to come in the door, you can see out of the rain.

Forgive me. Is this a picture of the canopy? What? Yes, that's actually the that's a that's the fascia of the canopy. And the and these are details. And um uh if you look over here, you can see they're labeled here. B um would be the these are the columns here and then this is the little elevation under B and then the door um is pictured here.

So how far does the canopy extend? If you go to that the floor, it's it's on two pages back. Okay.

Yeah. The back of the package. Yeah. That's the third third from the very Yeah, it's the addition in the front of the house that is in the light yellow. Okay. Okay. Well, let so we're not jumping around. Let's maybe take each project in in order. First, could if I could could ask one question about this before we move on. Um the the existing exterior material is gray. It's a gray clabard. Yeah.

Gray clabard. And so the this is showing a mahogany colored shingle. Oh no, that that's just a the gray the gray clabity would remain throughout. Yeah. So the only mahogany will be the surrounding the frame of the door and the door itself. Yeah. And also the the canopy will be fascia. Fasia only. Thank you. Yeah. And are are those side lights on the door? There'd be side lightss on the door but framed in.

Okay. So, if we take them in order, I guess my question is, are there any of these projects that if something did happen to the to the plantings, a new owner says, "I hate trees." Okay. Uh uh are there any of these projects that would still remain invisible from Lime Street? So because of an existing structure.

Yeah. So um I think project A would be mostly hidden by Dennis and House, but if you went all the way over here, if you look at at at the photo number two which is there you see you can't see the house at all because of Dennis. Okay. But then if you go to the next photo you can just start to see um this this wing here and that and that's pretty much as far as you see. But if all of those trees went down, you'd probably start to see project B.

Okay. from that angle about project C. Um, project C and D, you would see if again if you go back to photo number one, if you if you lost all of those trees, you would see um project D and C. And I don't think you see project E from anywhere because it's on the on the fully back side of the house. Yeah.

And Jeff, can you refresh us? Uh C and D are in the historic district commission uh zone. Everything is in the house. The house is in. So any part of the house I think the whole house is in there. Yeah. I the line is the line is structure is in the district. Yeah. This line doesn't matter. I think I think because part of the house is in the historic district, all the house is subject. That's not Yes.

Okay. So, I'm sorry. I'm back to project E. Uh, so photo six. So that's the deck. If you were to take photo from this angle, you presumably could still see a bit of the deck. Yeah, you I mean, boy, that would be a real stretch, but Yeah. Yeah. I suppose if you came all the way down here and you lost all those trees, you'd start to see part of that. Yeah. Okay. So, project A. Project A.

Is this is this just um What's the planter? Where do I get a picture of the planter? Um if you want the existing No, no. the the dimensions and the on here this little hole here the dotted line is the existing planter

and the new um outline is shown right we use the existing stone added on redwood um no landscape lights um questions or comments about project A I think it looks Yeah, I do. Be nice. Very carefully thought out. Why don't we just in case there are separate conditions um approve each project in order? So, is there a motion concerning project project A?

I move that we accept project A as illustrated on the maps and the um and the charts provided. Okay. Second, early seconds. Uh, further discussion. Deb, you're you're you can't see any of this. Uh, are you there? She may not. Yes, I'm here. I'm looking at uh the the details that were sent uh through Martha. So, I Okay, these are just expanded versions, I believe, of what was sent, right? That's really great. Okay. Uh any any further discussion? All in favor?

I I I That motion carries. Okay. Project B would be

I lose track of things. Okay, that's the front entry door. The canopy. the canopy of stone steps and watch ma walkway to match the existent recess down lights in the canopy move an existing wall sconce um and I'm kind of squinting here but you you have dimensions do you have dimensions for all of these these things on the the plans um I For example, the door here,

it's a three-foot door and the canopy comes out six feet on the on the on the apartment wing. And then on the main house, it's another it's a three-foot door and the canopy comes out. I'm going to just about 10 ft. Mhm. I guess my question is whether those if I get a magnifying glass can I see those dimensions on what you've submitted otherwise we need to submit add the dimension

dimensions to our what motion of what's being approved. Um no there's not a dimension written on there. It's kind of a field dimen field situation, but um I can certainly put a dimension in there. You have dimension drawings at home, right? Yeah, but I didn't I didn't bother to dimension that because it's all field. You have to Yeah. locate it in the field because of the geomet. Um

so John, what more do you need for motion? I'm I'm just think thinking that we should some somewhere have an indication of what the dimensions of can we approve the plan with the dimensions of approximately a 3-ft door and a 6ft canopy still to be or we could say the door not to exceed and the canopy not to exceed six feet so that we could go ahead. Oh yeah, I think we can do that. is just I was trying to sort of save time because if they were on here we could just approve that as submit. But it is a scale drawing. So um u it's also an indication of the door size right here in the doorway. No the door

the door size is specified right here on the drawing. Right. It's just there's no uh running dimensions on the length of this can go up a little bit to the this map. Oh yeah. See yeah let me point it out. Um, if you go to this drawing here, and you see in the in the swing of the door, there's a three slashz by 6'8. That's a 3ft door by 6'8 pie. So, and in the other door, you see the dimensions of the door there listed by the their dimensions for the canopy. No, it's just a scale drawing, but it it's um an approximate.

Yeah, I can say it's approximately one. I would say um 14 feet. The the main thing would be roughly 14 ft out and the and the side canopy would be roughly six feet out or 7 feet out from the h from from the house. Yeah. Okay. And the materials are are specified. Yes, they were specified there. It's mahogany. Um, it just Yeah, mahogany. Okay.

And we're and we treat it like so it wouldn't gray. We wanted to keep the wood color. Um, so let me make the motion to approve project B as submitted with the condition that the canopy extending from uh the main the main house is that correct? Yes. it be approximately uh 14 14 feet out and then how how long would it be? How wide would it be? Yeah.

Uh say 9 ft. approximately 14 feet by 9 ft canopy. And uh on the side uh it'd be approximately 6 ft by 8 ft. 8 ft there. A second. And if you wanted to refer to a scale drawing, that would be fine, too, you know. Yeah. Well, oh, but where's the scale drawing? Well, this you're right. This is There's no scale. There's no scale. Okay. Is there a second?

A second. Further discussion.

Uh, John, I I have just a a few comments um on project B. I I love the front door. I love the biffolding doors. Um, it's a very modern Southampton look. I'm just a little concerned going forward and I know that this house didn't look historic to begin with and I agree that these are all improvements. Um, just to make mention that, you know, these are not historic looking improvements either in my opinion. Right. The the biffold doors happen in the back of the house, not not in front. Clarification.

Yeah. Um Deb, I take your I take your point. I looking my personal view is looking at the close-ups it it very much uh fits and improves the current look of the the house. Great. Great. Yep. Further discussion. All in favor? I opposed abstensions. Deb, are you voting one way or the other? Yes, I'm in favor.

Okay. So, project B carries and then project C. So that project C is um a a tiny little bumpout on the on the mudroom library that gives us laundry that gives us access to the garage and um and it's really just an extension of the existing facade and roof. This the garage. That's the garage. Yeah. and

and also explain that the reason there we need to have access to the garage is because we're closing the current access to the garage off to make a private entry for the apartment above the garage for the academy to use. Uhhuh. Yeah. Okay. So if the elevation of So where where on this is project C? So if you look at under this. It's right under here. So, if you go in the previous page, that's the roof plan. It's right here. See, this is the existing

and that's the addition. This is the yellow in the darker yellow. Right. And if you go to photo 5A, um, Little 5A is this guy. Yes. A lovely a lovely elevation. So where you see the dotted line, all we're doing is just continuing the clabard wall and a door and a window and the roof line all just continues. So,

okay. The clabards you will match in size and color. Yes. And material. Yes.

And the existing

is it is the wood decking that's referred to. Where would that be? that if you go again to the um it's okay stairs. This is the indoor part and then these are outdoor um steps. And do we have uh it's an EP eay deck? Is there an e deck there now? It's a It's a pressuret treated wood painted gray. And what's EP?

Um EP is a um it used to be the poor man's teak. It's now the rich man's e very dense. It's wonderful. Um and then what would the dimensions of the decking be? those on the plan. No, there's something on the plan. Oh, okay. But I can, if you don't mind, I can um give you a very close estimate.

I would say six feet out. six feet out by eight eight feet wide with steps. It can't go beyond the There's an electric uh meter on the wall there where the electric service is um right measured and that has to be that's it will be relocated by about a foot, right? But it has to stay there. So the the decking can't really go beyond that. And you got two two steps, one step uh three risers. risers in same same material as e.

Yeah. Um, so I move that we approve project C with the conditions that the clabboards be of the same material as the main house and and uh that the um EP deck and be approximately 6 by 8t with uh three risers also in eBay would second.

Further discussion. Uh John, was there any consideration to not matching uh the existing shingle because it from these photos it's not very appealing. Was there any consideration to doing a a wood roof on the whole project?

No. Um I don't think there's um funding for redoing the whole house in cedar. Um there is some consideration being given to whether we since we have to we're going to have new shingles trying to match old shingles. We may redo the whole roof in asphalt shingles to match the academy, the main campus of the academy, but that um that's not part of what you're proposing.

It's not it's not right now only because we'd have to and we're happy to come back and let you know what the decision is, but it it's a financial decision. Roof the entire Yeah. Yeah. A and another possibility is that you re- roof only from the ridge and from the ridge down. Um, you know, it's so the new roof. Right now, we're going to try shingles would be just for this new addition. Well, it has to go up a little bit. Probably goes all the way up to the ridge by the time we're we're kind of feathered in,

but not o over Not all the way down here. No. Okay. Um and it also depends on whether we can actually match the existing shingles. And if we can't, we'd come back to you and say, you know what, we can't match it. We're going to just re reshingle this whole roof and this whole roof. And we if or we can approve that now. No, no, we we would want to discuss if you're going to re- roof the whole thing. I think we would want to know more details about what you're proposing. Yeah.

I just want to say that I think Deb has a a really good point and that if you were able to match, for example, the color of the door uh with the with new asphalt roof tiles, it would be much much more attractive than this modeled or whatever multicolored roof that's now now there. Yeah. Personally, I hate the Asheville shingles that are there now. They're not great. Yeah. And and if we can afford to redo the whole thing, we would. Yes. Um uh so um but how old is that?

It's hard to know. Um, there are parts of it that look like it could it could be close to being needed, you know, ready to re- roof, but I think I think the option of doing the whole house in cedar would is not feasible. We just Yeah, we just I don't think we But the option of doing the whole house with a different material in asphalt is still a possibility.

Yes, definitely. I it it would be our our desire to do that. And um and I I think if we uh and it would just be we'd treat all of the eve details the same and so forth. It would just be the a different material. We're happy to come back uh with a a you know a proposal for a different asphalt shingle, but it would be I can tell you what we would probably do is we would match the it's a fairly it's an architectural asphalt shingle. It's kind of a charcoal gray. Do you have a I don't even know if you have a speck on I don't know because that's 20. Yeah.

Yeah. But any we would we would try and just tie it in to the main campus. No. Uh I think we would be receptive to that if if that's in the cards. But for today with the small portion uh I understand the proposal is just to match the existing shingles. Yeah.

So um the motion on the floor is to approve with the conditions that the collabors match the existing material. the six by eight foot deck in eBay and three risers in in eBay. And are you adding in one of the provisions is to match the existing roof asbesto shingles as they are now unless that's that's in included in what's submitted. Yeah. I'm not I'm not adding conditions if they're already here. Right. Okay.

Further discussion? All in favor? I I motion carries unanimously. You going through the alphabet here. D is uh so this if again if you go to the floor plan which is um three pages back from back that's and you're this is project D right here

and um that's an addition to the master bedroom and here we would have the biffold steel doors that wrap around the corner and continue on down across the rest of the master bedroom, the living the dining living room area. And this is where the this is the right now there's a semicircle window here on the wall and wall and glass block. Yeah. And then glass block. So right now there's a um here is the existing wall. There's a semicircle sort of like half sphere with and then it's all glass block

right. So this dark yellow is is ground now this ground. Yeah. Okay. Yep. There's an air conditioning unit out there that's going to get changed. Yeah. So that's right in front of this this dotted uh rectangle is the view of that ex uh existing facade on the master bedroom facing into the street and and it was that photograph was taken about 10 ft away from the house. So you can see how Yeah. Yeah.

pretty um And then where would the where would the door be? The steel door right here. These Yeah, these are the doors. Oh, I see. On all those sides. There's a lovely little garden. What is it? I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. Well, there's a lovely little what Gil Boro called the secret garden, which is right right here.

And it's the cedar trees. It's very pretty and and we just wanted to look out on that. Then all the lighting that's going in this going to be like kind of residential dark sky, not like a We're not doing any exterior lighting. Okay, that can't be Oh, in the in the in the Yeah, we're going to downlight right behind each column. Okay. The columns are um have openings in them so the the the light will let a little bit of light kind of squeeze out in the openings. But recessed, right? Recessed.

Yes. Everything's recessed. That's what the question. So, which are the This is the black diamond. Yeah. And it's going to Black Diamond or Nano Wall makes one. Um Parame Parramck makes one, but they're all it and it's a steel door, so it's a fairly thin narrow line. You don't get a big heavy profile

profile on it. And and again the e pay the de the deck is e pay same and the the size of the of the porch there would be ah now we're dimensioned or at least part some dimension

well it's it's 7 feet for away from the house and then it's the length of the house. So that's the roof plan. This is the roof of the exterior can Yeah. And you want m you want point to the elevation down the lower. Yes. Yeah. That's the that's what the um What am I looking at? Project D. I can orient myself.

What will be the material of the canopy in pro? I'm now looking at project E. So, this is the elevation of looking at the house from the street. This just this one, right? These are the roof lines. And then this is the facade looking directly at the house from the pool, the existing swimming pool. So it's turned around the corner. So this confused. I'm sorry. Okay. So this this view is looking at this this wall here. This this view. Yeah. Just this. Gotcha. And then this view is that it's looking at this. What direction does that face?

Faces towards the river. Towards the river. Yeah. The next door neighbor. So this is if the plantings were going, you might just get a lo, right? Yeah, to be honest with you, I think you don't even know. See, so here's the site plan. Is going and this is okay. Yeah, you'd have to be and I think there is a house very mostly believable. One should look back and see. If we knew the house, the other house were blocking it. We wouldn't be

I know it. Well, we had too many conversations supposed to be recorded. You know, I mean, Gild was great, but it was just, you know, okay,

it was everything's kind of like that. So the question the question is you're you're basically not going to be able to see this not just because of the plantings but because of the Dennis house and another house but we don't we don't know for sure and anyway I I think for project D the only condition I would have is again to specify that the glamards match the existing material. Um and then uh approximate dimensions um are they are they given here with

well on on project D they're they're on the plan which is 14 ft by 17 two pages back one more page these are the dimensions along here okay those are that's new construction and then this matches the existing length of the house and sweetie just point out that it's 17 ft addition by 17 okay so those are specified

all right so I would move to approve project D with the condition that the collabors match as submitted with the addition that the collaborates match the existing material the material of existing collaborates second Julie did you second Carolyn Carolyn second. Thanks. Um, further discussion. Uh, John. Um, we're on D. So, are have we discussed the biffold doors yet or not yet? That's in E.

Well, we we have been looking at the image on the last page of the the doors. Uh I I think Deb one consideration is this this really is not going to be is almost certainly not going to be visible um because of existing houses but we don't know that for 100% sure. So right I was just going to ask maybe I'm getting ahead for the in photo six where there's two sets of sliders right now. So the biffold, the black steel biffold is going to encompass that whole area where the cutout lines are. Is that right?

Yes. Okay. But but that's we're not approving that right right now. Right. We're on D. That's we're on D. And John, just one one other comment. I think for a project of this size being ABCDE, we probably should have had a a site visit for this. It would have been nice to to see it because we really can't see this property, you know, because of the position of it. Um I would love to see it when it's completed, too.

You're invited for cocktails. Hold you to it.

Yeah, that's a good thought. I didn't think of that. Deb, but I I I think uh the materials we've been presented with show and we we've got large format photographs, so they really show pretty pretty clearly what the the grounds and house are are like. Um so motion for D has been made and seconded. Further discussion. All in favor? I

I. The motion carries. One more to the last one. E. This is a a canopy. It's basically a flat roof. So there's no shingles involved in in E. It's just um a a flat roof. It it match it essentially matches the the canopy out in the front of the building. Same material, same everything, same column, same faces, same the square footage of the eaid deck is specified um

on the photo. The the dimensions are is 308 square ft. Oh, is it? Okay. But do we know how far out that extends? Is that 7 foot4? That's specified.

What's an EPDM roof? Um, it's a basically a flat rubber roof. You can't see it. No roof is actually flat. It has to pitch slightly, but you you can't see it from the ground. And color of that um it's a dark gray. Um is the existing the existing canopy here? No, the existing canopy that we're demolishing which is rotting off. It's all rotted and everything is a is a plexiglass roof.

Oh, significant improvement. And the vines are so thick on it that it's literally just eating the deck and the roof and everything. So, could we have permission to go and walk around? Ask the owner. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Just I'd love to see it. just writers. Yeah, we can arrange if whoever I can you can get a hold of me and I can bring you over anytime. Yeah, I'd love to for you to see a before anyhow because the after is gonna be

and we have a whole deck that goes out to a stu art studio that out here is out of your ba wick but it it's um right now there's an ingground pool and some derelct pool houses that are What will you do with the pool? Just filling it in putting two trees. What will you do with the pool houses? We're ter they're falling it down anyhow. Well, so that's a later submission. No, it's well way out of the Oh, out of the

It's almost 50 ft outside of the historic zone. Well, I will move that we approve project E um as submitted with the conditions that the clabards match the material of the existing clabards and that the new EPDM roof be a dark gray. Second. Further discussion? All in favor? I Thank you. Thank you. And and we will absolutely have you all over.

Hey, we would love that. It would be nice to see. Very exciting. It looks terri. You definitely should see a before. Yeah. Before and after. I've walked around it when it was silent.

This is this is the deck and the new studios here. This is what we've been talking about. It's all going to eat deck with some gardens. And then this is the Harry's sculpture studio, my painting studio, and then a stone wall with a raised Jen tree. The whole idea is to be able to um be welcoming to students, have them over for a pizza or

Thank you so much. Exciting. Yeah. That's work ahead of us. What's your timeline? What's the timeline? Well, this meeting happened just in the nick of time. Yeah, because we're going to start demolishing the pool house to this week, maybe. Yeah. Um, we we got kind of hung up. We we would have been in front of you back in November or December, but the planning and zoning got got delayed and delayed and we needed to get through that before we came to you.

Um, so we're we're we're probably four months behind schedule right now. So, so we're we're gonna hop on it and and I I turned 80 last year, so I'm what's called an old man in a hurry. I love it. Understood. Thank you. I can leave my cell phone number with you. Just I can write it down on these plans if you want. That was one of them. Great. Yeah. And anyone feel free call uh and I'll I can bring you over anytime. I assume a nicer day is better than a

lousy day. But uh yeah. Um, so for there, thank you all very much. Thank you. Thank you, Dave. Are we leaving all of these here or I I don't want I'm sorry. I have other uses for them. I'll take them for I'm going to keep one anytime. Thank you all.

Thank you. Our resident landscape expert.

All right, we'll probably see you so we can bring it into the uh the barn as well. Great. Okay. We are as usual a bit behind. Um Deb, thank you. Deb did make a very good point which is our practice has been and it just escaped me um today but for any kind of major improvements we typically schedule a site site visit so that we can get or have in mind exactly what it's going to look like.

Um so uh renewal of the CFA for windows at one Lime Street. Um do you have any update Martha on on um the time the timetable of of that work? Yeah, they I I had a nice email exchange with with Charlie James and he said they expect to get started with that in June. So should we approve it for six months just to make sure that um it's done this year you do that? Yeah.

Um the whole summer is it is well let's see April May June July August September might be October. We do a year. I mean, a year is standard. Yeah, we could do that. Yeah. Is there a motion to renew the CFA for windows at on Lime Street for a year? A year or six months? I thought I thought you said six months. Yeah. But if if it's delayed, it's still warm enough to do it at 7 months in October. So, just I'll make the motion. Is there a second? I'll second.

Julie seconds. discussion. All in favor? Okay. Um, the one thing we really do need to talk about today in my opinion is this this this bill and uh I don't know I sent it late. So, if uh why don't we why don't we all take uh a few minutes to read through Well, I think we I read it, John. Yeah. Okay.

Well, we can start talking then. Um the original bill had a provision that I'm going to say Martha and Martha kicked out. They wrote some very compelling testimony why about why it was ridiculous to put in a bill just for the historic districts that video records be maintained permanently on a website.

We don't know about technology and there are all sorts of extra costs. So that's gone. The the other change from the original bill was um that's the original bill, the substitute bill. The other change is that unfortunately in my opinion state agencies are now completely exempt as our colleges and universities. So we don't even get to wouldn't even get to comment uh in an advisory capacity. Um the so I made some individual comments that were at the time that were directed at the pretty much the one two three four fifth bullet point under heading one just on the view that I want wanted to delay this the substitute bill was unanimously approved by the committee. So the the efforts to defeat this alto together may be a lost cause. I don't know. But um

preservation is opposing it, right? I'm sorry.

Connecticut preservation trust is opposing it. they're opposing it and I think several other historic districts I mean there's been some email traffic will will come in. So the question is simply uh we're past the hearing stage this would have to go directly to the legislators and whoever else we think might might want to weigh in. So the threshold question is whether we want to submit anything and then the question is if the answer is yes. This is just a kind of spewing a rough draft of some points we might want to make. My view is that we yes do want to submit something um to all the appropriate to whoever might be still in a decision-m capacity and that your draft is really excellent and that I I don't have any I mean I would like it to be even stronger than than it is. But I think you've been very um adept and astute and saying there's no sensible reason for this and no sensible reason for that. And to me it reads well

and I I suggest you just you know clean it up in any way you want but I I would approve it as is. Yeah. I would I would probably the only thing I saw in rereading it was uh say you to oppose Yes. enactment of sections two and three. Yes.

Of of the House bill. the I I have no objection to section one which requires broadcasting. We currently broadcast. Um and then I've heard nothing but good things about the rest of the bill which I frankly am not up on the details but it doesn't affect the HDC statute district statute. So, thank you, John, for doing this. Thank you. Curly, do you have thoughts on this?

No, I I think it definitely needs to be sent. I mean, if we don't say anything, we can't really defend ourselves. I agree. Deb, any thoughts on this? No, John, I thought um it was good. But I think it was really important to do. Um I especially was concerned about the mention of um appeals going to ZBA. Um that would not be a a good thing. I'm sorry.

Um yeah, I mean I agree on all all fronts. Um, I was trying to keep it to two pages. One could get into the more into the weeds, but there's plenty plenty of weeds already, I think. Um, yeah, I think it's adequate. You don't need any more. No, I don't weed.

No. Um do I I do view this this is to my mind this this just strikes me as an example one might say another example my personal view of of the state saying okay obviously a few towns I've heard rumors it was Weathersfield town objected because their HDC's were not allowing them to do things with town property that they wanted to do. But then you get a bill and it says, "Okay, every historic district in the entire state is treated the same."

Well, you pointed that out very well. I I just find it a bit outrageous. Yeah. Good. I I do have Well done, John.

Okay. Well, so um if we could have a motion that the HDC will um will finalize and um that there was a discussion of the draft, but the motion is that the HDC um finalize and and and submit to uh legislators and other interested individuals or agencies. Uh a statement of opposition to sections two and three of of this substitute bill 5508.

Excellent. I I I make the motion. Okay. Second. Okay. Um Carolyn's moved and currently seconded. Further discussion. All in favor? I. Um the signs and lighting discussion um the church could not attend again today. Um probably it's understandable the day after Easter I think. Um, but I understand Martha, they are willing to come in May.

Yeah. And if you could pin them down right away and uh Yes. I don't know what to do about old line old line in um there are concerns about um the the uplighting on their on their signs. I noticed also there's uplighting on the upon sign. I don't I don't know that we approved that. Did we when they which sign, John? On the Ottabon sign up lighting. It's like they from the ground up.

Yeah. They they told us that um the lighting was already there and they just they had turned it off because it was dangerous and then when they fixed the posts they redid it. But I was pretty sure they said that it was down lighting when I'm pretty sure they said that. Yeah. I think what's in there now? It looks to me like just, you know, solar lights that are stuck in the ground. She said they were just temporarily going to do use solar lights, didn't she, Martha? And that the new sign would be down lit. Yes, maybe that was it. Yeah, that's what I I remember. So, the down lighting's for the sign that they're going to put in now,

right? I think for now they've they've not turned that sign lighting back on. Okay. It's lit at night though, right? It is lit at night from the solar lights. Yeah, they're a little wher that I just the solar lights or the Are there down lights? Just the solar lights. The down lights aren't on anymore. Yeah, they're not there anymore. The other um aspect of uh temp temporary signs is do you recall who told us there were occasional gatherings of nonprofits they were in for some approval and that we would be invited in to discuss? That was Mary Sidner

of Yeah. Mary from um Lysb YB. Yeah. Um Yeah. Uh could you get in touch with her and say we are still Sure. Yeah. interested in in uh having a discussion with nonprofits about about that. Mhm.

I I don't know whether you what you think whether ne for next meeting we should just focus on the the church or um since we you know Ed had a list of a couple of things in addition to their past sign and what do we do with future temporary signs. Um um had some questions about

post and the two banners. Yeah. Um, is that enough or do we want to try to bring in other people to the meeting next meeting in May? I would think the church maybe by itself. I mean, I don't know what we do about the OD. I mean, they've never come in to address the the duplication of signs or anything. Right. Right. They've just not responded. Um, or they've said they were coming and then they don't show. I think one one they were grandfathered in.

The signs apparently have been there for a long time. The lighting I think is new. It's it's a little bit awkward to bring people in and talk about lighting because under new and ongoing business. Again, one of the things we want to get to are lighting guidelines. And it might be nice to have those guidelines say, "Yeah, we don't like what you're doing." Well, what do you want us to do? Yeah, exactly. I don't know. TV. And I know I know Russ has been swamped both with work and with their house edition, but he's he's the point person for lighting lighting guidelines.

So, do you think we should have the guidelines first, John, and defer the church? No. I I think if we're going to have the church in, we might as well talk about the lighting concern. I don't understand what the lighting concern is that Ed was concerned about. Oh, it's not a concern. I don't think just Excuse me. They took down the old rusty light post that illuminated with the light light that illuminated the steeple and they've replaced it with a much thinner, shorter, smaller light post with a, you know, that illuminates the steeple. You can see it. It's just as you go down the street in a new they put in a new structure without it being approved. Correct. Unless we can talk to them about that.

I think that's you know they change banners and they change light posts and they have signs without consulting. So the idea was just to re re review with them that they are important members of the historic district and try to get them to

Okay. So, for the next meeting, we'll we'll um uh focus on the church and maybe you can call Mary and and ask if they've had another meeting with various nonprofits and remind her that we have this approval in advance procedure for temporary signs. And John, in addition, I think if if you know just that if Russ could just go by and look at that light post and and and look at the light and see what he offered us his, you know, expert opinion on it before the church comes in. That would be great.

Okay. I'll mention that to to Russ. Have you checked it? Not looked at it. No, I will. I haven't looked at it at night. Me neither. I just see it in the daytime when I drive down the street. Yeah. But Russ can evaluate the lighting much better than I can. Okay, great. Okay. Um, secretar's report.

Uh, let's see. Yeah, basically the same as last month's um with the exception that uh for the historic plaque on 20 at 21 Ferry Road. Um that is um Fred Gaston's plaque. And Carolyn, you sent me these uh that was all I had. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah, we have these um and he has submitted quite a bit of um research which I actually did for Robin uh Cedric um that his his house was part of that was all one property. Do you know which house we're talking about? Oh, that's

Thank you. Yeah, that was all one property and it was split in 1923. So, um there is a good case to say that it was built by um Marshfield Parsons in uh around 1794. Um what what what is the case with that? It's in the uh the land records. Yeah, it's we have extensive built that for do you think? What did he what would he have built the house for? In what for what purpose would he have built that in 1794? I don't I don't know. I don't know. There's that doesn't things like that don't show up in the land record.

I know. I just wonder if that makes sense. Yeah. Do you in doing research look at the the WPA reports and photos that was done during the Great Depression? I haven't done that. I I have seen that. I It's They did some things in the historic district. They have a lot of information on the Sill House, for instance, and other houses. I don't think they did anything much on Ferry Road.

I was I was up at the state library and got to talking with someone and they pulled out this file with many dozen photos of old houses in old lime. Almost all of them. Our our house isn't old enough to obey the list. Almost all of them uh 18th century. Uh a few in the early 19th century. And there are descriptions and a lot of it just refers to public sources, but some to conversations they were having in the 30s with people who

passed down through the generations comments. Um, and I believe they said they were all available online. I'll have to look into that. The state library. I I haven't checked that myself. There's Would you let us know, Martha, if you if you find them? I'd be interested. Yeah, there's an amazing picture of the of the museum taken. It must have been right after the 38 hurricane. With the trees showing the trees down. Yeah. Well, I think the trees had been cleared up, but there were like these trunks with no branches.

Interesting. So, Marshfield Parsons, do you know about him? He did he have the Parson's Tavern? He had the Parson's Tavern. Yes. And uh which is now the Letington House. So, that was his that was a a stage coach um stop right on the road to the river, you know, to to the to the crossing to the ferry, crossing the river. But it doesn't make sense unless he was giving it to a child or unless he was building a a structure for trade, you know, a warehouse. Doesn't make sense to me. He would build a house there. He dies in about 183, I think.

Yeah. He um so if you think of Robin Sedwick's house which is right on the Lieutenant River like a foot above the water and then you know then it goes up and then you have Fred Gaston's house 21. Um, that was all one piece

and it's pretty clear in this the descriptions put it on that side of the road and Marshfield Parsons sold some of it to um Wealth and Miller and she may have and the one who built Robin's house. Although it seems that Robin's house was actually originally just a boat shed. It was not originally made as a house. Was it a Could it have been a warehouse?

It could have been a warehouse. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so it's, you know, when you get back into these old land records, it's really tricky to see which structure they're talking about. Yeah. Um, but when we look at this, this is the one I like the best, 1874. There are houses on that side. So, it certainly could have been built by him for whatever reasons.

Um, I don't think anybody could prove that it wasn't. So, Martha, if you if you find that when he purchases the land, is there a structure already on it? So, so in 1790, in 1790, he purchased We can do this afterward anyway. I don't want to take He sold land to Welton Miller. I'll just take it later, Martha. Yeah. Yeah. It's It's really tricky. And you know, he submitted this like two years ago, 2024. So, it's like

be nice to finish it up. Yeah. Yeah. Which and I agree, we should definitely finish it up. But the the tricky thing is that if the trail fizzles out or it's not clear, then you know how do you make a decision? When do you know for sure that there was a structure on that where his house is now?

It looks like 1794. Yeah, there's a structure mentioned. And do we use that 1794 date even if there is no trace of that pre-existing structure? So does the the sign on his house should indicate the date of his actual house? That's what I think.

Yeah. You know, um and of course, you know, they added on to houses. They took things off. They put a shed on and then they turned it into FDC approved. They don't even need that now because they're outside the district. Um, you know, so it's really a matter of opinion. You know, do you say the house the whole house was built in 1790 because there's, you know, still a 4ft addition that was there, but most of the house was built later. But you don't know when because there's no record of it. I don't know.

I can figure that out. It's tricky. It's tricky. Any anything else in your report? We're still waiting on the We're still waiting on the school. They're planning to do something very soon. Is that right? Fulfill May. That's what That's what they said. May or June, but they need to renew their CFA in May because it expires. So, they'll be back. Um, wait. We want it done before October 1st because if this bill passes, then we have no say. That's right. Good point.

36 Lime Street. Just no response. No response. But she wants to put a new roof on. And David know from One of the architecture firms sent me an email on Saturday to say that they wanted to come in to today's meeting and get approval for the roof because they're replacing the the wood shingled roof with asphalt and I said it's too late. Well, but also that's anyway. So

that's the discussion for next month. But what I would suggest getting in touch with David and saying uh at the same time we also need to consider railing. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And um we have the the spreadsheet designed from Elena for all of our things. I sent her an email. I haven't heard anything back from her. um upstairs and see if she's there.

Yeah, she um there is a way to I don't know how much time she has left. She's I think April's her last month here. Um and you know, but we do now have a nice framework for that. And there is a way that um that I can convert the lists that I have into Excel. Being curly, this is an intern, a Yukon graduate student who's interning here. And last fall, Martha and I

met with her and came up with a wonderful list of tasks she could undertake. Her slate at the time was clear for after the first of the year and as it's turning out she's maybe partly able to get through one one piece. But we're happy for that. We're happy for that. But anyway, um John, I'm gonna have to pay.

Yeah. No, I I think uh again our ongoing business waits. I I I frankly think the only way we're going to get to some of these things, some are fairly close, the um website revisions, the signage guidelines to accommodate realtor signs, the demolition, what a decision on what we want to do with demolition guidelines. Um, but I I I realistically this has gone on now for many months that we haven't even been able to talk about them. Um, so I'm going to suggest that we schedule a special meeting. I think probably it's best to wait until next next week when um Russ and Ed's here and we can all look at our calendars, but perhaps a you know, two or two or a later a later date in in May for the special meeting.

Sounds good. Sounds good. I I just see no no other realistic way to to get to it. I think that's right. Um, I wanted to bring up um two two questions. Martha, have you have we paid attention to the new there's a new fence going up between the Connecticut Examiner Building and the uh the Murky's on Lime Street? Have you seen that? Uh I've just noticed it. He sent me Margie sent me a uh he sent us a like for like and I was looking at the like for like

I'm assuming that just means it's a replacement. Yes.

Sometimes say submit a like for like say it's a replacement but it's a like for like. Now, I looked back through the um approvals that we had for that and I'm sure that it was approved, but I couldn't find any details on it. There's no like explanation as to what the original fence was. Um he says wood, higher end structure, not simple panel, white. So, it looks like it really is like for like um and it's a repair. So, um, since we in order to get something on the record, perhaps you could ask them saying, you know, we recognize it's a like for like, we'd appreciate your uh sending details. Does that make sense? You know,

measurements of the Yeah. for for our records. Yeah. Because they did a lot of work on that property. There were they put in a pool. They put a fence around the pool. We approved that. Um and I know that the fence separating their property from the Connecticut Examiner and the other property. Um I know it was approved because it wouldn't have gone up without approval. Yeah. But um I couldn't find any details on it. So I'll ask him. Is that pool in the historic district? I wasn't sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Some past curly, some past iterations of the compositions of the HDC have been a little more lax and we're trying to be we're trying to be consistent and that's really tough, right? It's very There's another poll question coming up, right? with Erica's house. Yes, Erica's poo's already come up. We've approved that in the back. Oh, it's been approved. Okay. For better, for worse, but yes. Well, it's it's basically visible, right? Basically. Yeah.

Okay. And my last point that I want to bring up is what about the or do we have any advisory capacity or opportunity to weigh in on whatever plans are happening with the new shopping with the big Y shopping center. Um nobody knows.

Yeah, the trees got everybody excited and upset, but we don't have any idea what the plans for that uh site are. I hadn't heard we we have limited a building ability to make recommendations with respect to public buildings and sidewalks that are outside the district that affect the district. So that includes the Halls Road sidewalk, right? Right. Even beyond the portion of the sidewalk that's in the district. I think there's something in there, Carolyn, about about trees, but let me check.

I think we should do that quickly, you know, because the time I mean, they just came in and chopped the trees down without warning anybody and ignoring the existing landscape plans. They they said that they didn't or they weren't aware that there was a prior landscape plan that they should have con conformed with which prevent would have prevented them from doing it. But I so I think we should look into that quickly. And um and do we have anybody on the sidewalk committee? We should. Well, no one volunteered. So we we need to solicit. Would anybody be willing to do that? There's one opening. Could you do it, Julie? You'd be so good.

Oh, that's sweet of you to say. I'm limited. Um so it's a little challenging for me to commit to being on the committee. happy to attend meetings here and there but and we discussed briefly last meeting is that that I'm gone for five months. Um we discussed last meeting just being insistent that they keep us posted and and when something comes up that's of of issue. Well, ask him. I wonder if we could are we allowed to just attend meetings?

Yeah. and and have that in. I think a lot of it's going to be financial details, but a lot of it also will be plans. And certainly the Halls Road development plans that I saw um when when we had the full development committee included sidewalks with should I put it rather flamboyant signs. That was the original. Yeah. That's out of Yes. That's all gone. I know that's gone, but I'm just saying.

No, that's why us to pay attention. Yeah. Plans that didn't didn't they didn't go flow into the historic district. Yeah. And John, does the is it tonight's selectman's meeting they're going to talk about the the bridge the pedestrian replacement for the bow bridge that I don't there was just I just read the line article about it. I don't have any information but does that have any do we have any way of influence influencing that? It's is it 300 ft back? Yes. Right. But it certainly impacts the historic district.

Well, again the we can make recommendations but it's very limited. It's it's it's sidewalks and public buildings. So if it's not a sidewalk, if it's a bridge, technically we can't make any. But Martha has Martha Shoemaker has asked for public comments on whether the town wants this project to go forward. It's wasted a huge amount of money already. COVID and other money was thrown into this and nothing has happened over all this period of time.

And um I think the meeting is tonight. So, I just wondered if if the HDC since um comments have been requested if we could provide a comment. I I Who's going to write it up and how could we approve it as a commission? I think individuals could could certainly comment. I thought we could maybe just do it now. Just only has to be one sentence. your state. What is the plan for the bridge? I mean, is there a plan? There's no real the the decision is whether the plan should continue to be planned or whether the plan should no longer be

continued. And I think strongly that we need to end the plan and and let the sidewalk commission plan sidewalks on a new DOT bridge. Uh and and that we don't want to spend any more time or money or whatever on this really rather frivolous project. Yeah, exactly, Carolyn. Exactly. I think there's leftover funds of something like 35,000. Um, and if the funds um are not used for this project, they'll go to social services, which I think is um a much more better usage of

Are you logged in? Could you Can we make a statement to that effect? Can we make a statement to that effect, Deb, that we would submit just by email now? I I think that would be great. I'm I'm going to do one personally, too. Could you look up chap just Google chapter 97A historic districts because I can find the particular statutory provision. If we're going to say something, I think we should link it at least link it to sidewalks. uh or link it to language that were authorized to

I don't think we even need to in this case Joan because there was discussion about if we can wasn't there discussion about parking related to the bridge then tie into sidewalks we're only concerned but I don't authority over parking is only for commercial establishments with with inside just thinking maybe the sidewalks tied to the parking You better know the tie of the bridge. I'm getting you there.

Just a little. Yeah, I have it. I have it up here. Part one, historic districts. Okay. It's a section. So, scroll down. Feels to me that it's an easy statement. It is. I don't think we have to link it to our No, I mean statuto district commission feels strongly that this project be should be discontinued.

Okay, we may um cooperate with other agencies and organizations and groups interested in historic preservation. uh render advice on sidewalk construction and repair tree planting, street improvements and the erection or alteration of public buildings not otherwise under its control where they affect historic district. So, I think the language about street improvements is close enough because we're talking about

improving the existing bridge and it would be a public structure public structure and you walk on it. So, that's right. It's not public structures, it's public buildings. Sorry to be particular, but I kind of I can link it to It is kind of a sidewalk. I was going to say it is kind of a sidewalk. Yes. I mean, you can't go from one side to the other on the sidewalk unless you go across the bridge, right? Okay, we'll come up with a sentence. I'm I'm on board kind of escaped me. Yeah, this feels important. feels strongly that the

proceeding Oh, that proceeding above proceeding with plans for the Bow Bridge reconstruction makes no sense or should not continue. I am not a wordssmith. Do you do you want to say uh indicate that the HDC uh under its authority to make recommendations concerning yes street improvements

outside the district that that that affect the historic district affect the character of the historic district. Yeah. Because then nobody can say, "Well, what who do they think they are?" And we've had such comments in the past. No, really. I can't imagine. This is so exciting. Oh, wait. Hold on. Let's finish this first. I know. It's just

Okay, Joan, you can because Martha can then send it right to the each of the to the board of selectment. the historic district commission under the under its authority to make recommendations regarding sidewalks that impact historic projects and street improvement. Sidewalks and street improvements or just street improvements? I'd say sidewalks and streets.

Okay. that impact the historic district. She feels feels strongly under its authority and I can give this to you in a minute. Martha um feels strongly that the that proceeding with plans for the bow bridge for reconstruction should not continue. Yeah, that's fine. That sounds good. Yeah. Okay. Is that okay with you, Deb?

Yes, that's fine. because you know the sidewalk committee being um consisting of Tim Robin breeding Chris Kerr like that is a really good group among others to handle this project and I don't think they they have no jurisdiction with bridge or anything like that but I just feel very safe with with that group going forward. Good. Okay, great. But I I think it it doesn't hurt and it might help um to submit this statement from us. Certainly can't hurt. Yes, absolutely. Okay. Well, let's adopt it. We We need a motion and a second and

Okay. I make a motion that we accept this and send it to the select committee meeting. that that we approve a statement of opposition to continue the coverage rather than rather than this. Sorry. Great. Thank you, John. Perfect. I will second. Okay. Deb seconds. Curly moved. Uh further discussion. All in favor? I I Great. carries.

Uh the chair will entertain a motion to adjurnn. Good. So the second journal