Regional Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening everyone. Sorry, thank you. We're trying something a little different this evening. Normally have you have someone come out and yell um yell at me just to get everyone's attention. So I did the yelling this evening. I apologize for that. Uh welcome to the April 14th, 2026 Johnson City Regional Planning Commission meeting. There are going to be two opportunities for members of the public to address the planning commission uh during this meeting. Firstly, during the public comment period, which is at the beginning of the meeting, or during the public hearing meeting, which is heard at the time a specific agenda item is brought forward for discussion. The public comment period is intended to allow members of the public to address the planning commission whether or not any comments they wish to make are related to a topic that is on our agenda this evening. Public hearing comments are limited to certain classifications of topics and those agenda items for which there is a public hearing are indicated on the agenda. To be eligible to speak during the public comment period, you must have registered to speak at least 12 hours before this meeting. Public comment is public comment is limited to 12 people to make sure that the commission has time to conduct its business. To be respectful of everyone's time, we would ask you speak only once on any given topic. Speaking time is limited to three minutes for members of the public with applicants given 10 minutes to present their case. For both public comment and public hearing, I will open the floor at the appropriate time. If you come forward to speak, please introduce yourself by giving your name and address. Your comments should be directed only to the commission. I now call the meeting to order at 603. Thank you. Commissioner Williams, would you lead us in the uh uh in a pledge in the invocation and pledge, please?

Please pray with me.

Dear heavenly father, you give us so much to be thankful for. A great nation, a wonderful state and city in which we live. We're thankful for your love and your grace. We're thankful for the planning department and this planning commission. We ask for your guidance and wisdom as we make decisions on the business before us. We ask for your patience to listen and for courage to speak. We ask the decisions that we make will bring glory to you. And we ask all these things in Jesus name. Amen. Please stand for the pledge. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you Williams. Okay. Um first item on our agenda this evening is the approval of the agenda. Does everyone have the opportunity to review the agenda? If so, is there a motion to approve it? Yes, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion to approve the agenda. Thank you, Commissioner. I'll second the motion. Thank you, Commissioner Dagenheart. Uh, all those in favor, please signify by saying I. I. Okay. Agenda is approved. Uh, next item on our agenda is the approval of the minutes from the last meeting. Has everyone had the opportunity to review the minutes? Are there any change? Sorry. Sorry. Thank you. I'll speak this way into the microphone there. Um, are there any changes uh to the uh to the minutes?

Mr. Chairman, I noticed there were a couple typos in the reference of who was serving as chairman and vice chairman. I think it was staff were aware and we'll make those uh corrections internally. Okay. Thank you. Is there a second perhaps to the motion to approve with corrections as noted? I'll second it. Thank you very much. All those in favor say I. I. Okay. Okay. On to the public comment period of the agenda. We have two people registered for public comment this evening. Um the uh the first uh the first the first person to speak is Laura Wheeler. Laura, are you here? Would you like to come forward, ma'am?

You'll wait to hear on the public hearing. Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. The second person we have to speak this evening also on Zur Claude Simmons is Fernando Zapeda. Fernando, would you like to come forward and speak?

Welcome back.

Ah, yes. Welcome back. Thanks for having me. Uh members of the planning commission, uh my name is Fernando Zapeda and uh I live in 216 Strawberry Field Drive. I am the president of the Strawberry Field Homeowners Association. So uh sort of representing the neighborhood uh regarding this uh proposed plan on the corner of Claude Simmons and Knob Creek Road. Um, basically we would like to oppose the plan in its current form. Primary reasons being things that have already been brought up in the past. Uh, traffic being a primary concern. I know that's probably something that's secondary to um, zoning criteria. However, um you know, placing 97 homes in that very busy corner where is the primary uh epicenter of traffic backlog uh would create a bit of a problem if you guys do it prior to improvements to that road. I and I know there's two separate projects that are going on. One is the city is supposedly going to be doing some improvement projects to either Do Creek or Oakland or Mountain View Road. Um which I am not aware what they are specifically. Um and then there of course is the tunnel project which is a 5-year project by the state uh seven years down the road or 5 years down the road or whenever that's going to be. So by allowing this to go forward now is sort of putting the cart before the horse in the sense that it's just going to create more problems where there's already problems that you know I've lived here since 2001 and it is exactly the same as it has been except for it

used to be uh a stop sign then it became a flashing light now there's an actual traffic light. Uh but the the traffic does back up. The other thing is the problem is that the population density of which the current structure is being presented. The lots are 50 by 100. Uh I've driven all around the neighborhoods. I drive by there every day. There is not any other neighborhood that has those lot sizes anywhere near where we live. Uh, a quick Google search today, I looked at what a trailer park lot size is, and it is anywhere from 40 to 100 to 60 by 120. So, essentially, you're I'm not comparing this development to a trailer park, but you're putting the same amount of houses that are going in a trailer park. Uh, and the big issue is not just what's going up there in that corner, but across the street where the rest of the sales farm, there's probably another 60 80 acres that may be developed down the road. Once you set the precedent of having these dinky lots of, you know, 5,000 square ft next to neighborhoods where the houses are four to 5,000 square feet by themselves, not the lot, just the house. It sort of creates a little bit of a difference in what's available or what's out there on that side of town. I mean, to me, it sort of creates almost a Potterville like situation from It's a Wonderful Life or you're just putting up all these, you know, uh, houses. Um, I understand on the other side of the tunnel, it's a whole different situation. There's apartments that are already there, you know, all those.

Excuse me, sir. That was three minutes. Okay. All right. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

THANKS A LOT. Y AND THAT'S UH THAT THAT concludes our uh public comment period this evening. So we'll move on to new business um and item 6.1. Um Riley, would you care to step forward and present? Good evening, chair, vice chair, commissioners. I'm Riley Pudney, the development coordinator with the planning division, and tonight I'm going to be presenting the request for concept plan approval at Zero Claude Simmons Road. The timeline for the meeting is this is the first and public hearing for the planning commission where a recommendation will be made to the city commission. That meeting will be May 7th where it would be a public hearing as well. We sent notification letters out on March 19th as well as posted the property and on April 1st we held the neighborhood meeting. Before we get into the request, I just wanted to orient the commission on where the project is located. It is depicted with the Red Star property with the Sterling Springs subdivision to the south, Universal at Mount, excuse me, at Mountain View to the north, and then the Lowe's Hardware commercial development. The request is to approve a concept plan for 97 single family lots in an RP3 district. And the reason a concept plan is required for tonight, this is not a reszoning. The property is already zoned RP3 um but with section 6.10.1.3 of the zoning code. A planned residential development shall be

compatible with the surrounding areas. And so without a concept plan, one must be provided for the planning commission and city commission to determine that it is compatible with the surrounding districts. The current land use of the site is the property is currently vacant and clear of any trees and vegetation and it currently has a land use of agricultural. So what that means is the property itself is zoned RP3 residential which is planned residential but the current use of the property is of vacant agricultural use. Residential is depicted on the north and east and west which is in the yellow with agricultural to the south as well. And I also want to point out across from the tunnel the agricultural site. This is actually the B4 zoning district. So that just shows that uh agricultural land use is kind of in every zoning district that we have as well as B4 and RP3. These are just some photos of the intersection of Knob Creek and Claude Simmons looking at the site from the corner and then Knob Creek looking down towards Claude Simmons. Background of the property. The property was voluntarily annexed by the owners, the annexation request was by the owners of the Sterling Springs subdivision in 1994 and that is when it was given the RP3 zoning designation. So there was no reasonzoning. It was brought in at 1994 with RP3. There was no concept plan provided at that time which is why we are here today to get a concept plan approved. And if the concept plan is approved, it does become binding and any significant changes would have to go through this process again. A traffic impact analysis will need to be completed at the time of a preliminary plat and all recommended

improvements will be completed uh by the developer. There are water and sewer services available to the site currently and schools have determined that there is adequate capacity. This site will serve Woodland Elementary, Liberty Bell Middle, and Science Hill High Emergency Services. is we reached out to fire and they determined that there's two fire stations located within a 5mi radius and that was adequate per the response standard. And we also have tonight uh after staff if the commission has questions public works and emergency services to answer any traffic or emergency related questions. The concept plan itself is depicted here with 97 single family lots. The minimum lot size of these is 5,000 square feet. The RP3 district itself has a minimum lot size of 4,000. So the concept plan depicted is exceeding the minimum standards. RP3 allows for 8 and a half units per acre. And this site at 22.36 acres would allow for a maximum density of 190, but as the proposal sits, it's only at 97 and it would be bound at that 97 if approved. They are depicting the 15% required open space with 7 and a half% active space of walking trails, picnic areas and uh potential parks. And the interior roads will be built to local road standards which include sidewalks along all interior roads and around the culde-sac. This is just a conceptual rendering that the developer and applicant have provided um to kind of give more life to the plat. Um so this obviously could be subject to architectural changes but the interior is adequate uh is an adequate representation of the plat provided.

The density comparison for surrounding subdivisions um is roughly it's a little bit higher than what's around there. You can see the Sterling Springs uh depicted in the one which was developed in 2014 has roughly a8 unit per acre density. So we have a little bit of larger lots there. Uh Mispa Hills to the north 1.2 units per acre. Uh Alexander Grove to the south on the other side of the road is4 units per acre. And then uh with Sawyer's Pond and Strawberry Fields of over roughly 1.5 units per acre and the proposal of 97 units is roughly 4.3 units per acre, which is half of what the RP3 district would allow. tying it into the Horizon 2045 plan. This is a proposed uh place type of neighborhood residential and staff just wanted to highlight that the neighborhood residential considerations are to promote a mixture of housing variety which includes size, price, and design. And it promote in innovative neighborhood design to limit land consumption and create publicly accessible open space. and open space is a big proponent of the RP3 zoning district which is what they will be meeting with their open and active space. Um you can see the compactness for residential is in the middle. So it allows for a little bit of a mix of low density, high density, larger lots and smaller lots. It truly allows for a little bit of mix um of development. And with across the railroad tracks, we have a uh regional mixeduse and uh neighborhood mixed use, I believe, is the purple. Am I correct in that? Neighborhood mixed use. So the idea of the art the neighborhood residential on the interior of this property or this

line of the tunnel would allow for a transitional zone of higher density uh commercial compactness to uh residential to your lower density of the existing neighborhoods to the south of the property. The neighborhood meeting was held April 1st and there was 46 members in attendance. Their main concerns included traffic, crime, property impact of property values and the density and the surrounding areas being less dense and larger lots. Um, again like I said with the concerns for traffic, um, we can we have public works who can answer the traffic related questions for the uh, impact analysis. Um, and staff has addressed the density with the the graph provided. So with that, staff would recommend approval of the concept plan due to it meeting the dis the requirements of the RP3 uh district and with it being in line with the horizon 2045 uh plan.

Thank you, Miss Budney. Thank you. I think staff has a presentation prepared um on the uh roadway improvements both for Mountain View and Knob Creek. Saw you poised there, Jason. Thank you. Good evening, chairman, commissioners. My name is Jason Miles. I'm the public works director for the city of Johnson City. I'm going to present to you the West Mountain View Road and West Oakland Avenue Road improvements.

Excuse me, Jason. I'm sorry. Would you mind speaking a little closer to the microphone? Um, I'm going to present to you the West Mountain View Road and West Oakland Avenue road improvements as well as the Kn Creek Road and Railroad overpass project. This will be more of a 30,000 foot view for you. Uh, what we have here is a map of the project that we've been working on as city forces. Uh this is the uh West Mountain View Road and West Oakland Avenue improvements uh that included the new bridge u which has been constructed and opened up. I think you all aware that the West Oakland Avenue work has been essentially completed. U there's probably some punch list items we have yet to to finish up, but uh we will be doing that soon. U and we're now moving in or transitioning into the West Mountain View Road portion of this. The project is essentially widening that corridor to three lanes. The middle lane being a center turn lane and then um uh you know deceleration lanes as needed. Remaining construction issues for this project include uh utilities work. Um the Knock Creek Road closure which we just experienced that area has been reopened. uh the sanitary sewer construction at Fink Drive will begin on or about May 4th. Uh once they're done, then our forces on the public works side will pivot to storm sewer installation and road widening. Uh which will be kind of the bigger impact. I guess um that will restart in early June. the the the general detour plan that you see here again is just kind of general, but as we get into different areas of construction, there'll be more specifics about closures and things like that. Uh

it'll be more localized, if you will, but what you see here is uh generally indicative of how we're going to manage the traffic. So the blue indicates closed to through traffic, the red indicates closed completely, and then the green is the detour route. Uh so it's kind of the the closure is kind of focused around Fin Drive especially for utilities installation but again this is just sort of general as we get as we move through the construction. Um there'll be local impacts that we'll deal with of course. Uh this is the Knife Creek Road and Railroad overpass project. Um again at a high level this is uh managed by T dot at this point. the city was managing the project for quite some time and then you know pivoted back to T dot in February 2024. So it's been uh under their control and direction since then for the past two plus years now. Again the layout what you see here um is described here. This is a slide from T Dot's presentation. There'll be the new bridge over the CSX railroad. Uh that'll take the uh the the the tunnel essentially out of commission when this project is completed. There'll be two new bridges on Kn Creek Road, two new culverts on Claude Simmons Road. Uh the five lane typical sections for the road includes two lanes each way with a center turn lane, four paved shoulder, four foot pave shoulders, curbon gutter, five foot sidewalks, and guard rail. I'm sure this is what everybody's anxious to hear. Um, so current status, we have a a item before the plan uh city commission on Thursday this evening to

um increase our our contract with a Morton Thomas the engineer of record. Uh this is necessary to resolve a lot of comments that have been uh generated for the construction plans. Um, so we'll bring that to the commission this Thursday evening. Remaining significant design and permitting issues include resolution of those design comments. We've gotten through the what I call the the heavyhitting comments. At this point, it's it's kind of cleaning up the plans and that sort of thing. Uh, environmental permitting uh still lags a bit. Uh, we expect that generally to come in around the early spring 2027. So that'll dovetail well with the the proposed letting of the project bidding and award. Uh current schedule. So the intent is to finalize the construction plans and the bid documents this December. Uh we still have a lot of work to do to get to that point of course, but u we're we're we're still holding with that schedule and this is per TOD of course. U we're going to bid the project into the spring of 2027. Uh we anticipate construction to start in the fall of 2027 if not perhaps a little bit sooner. Uh and we anticipate the duration of the project to be two plus years. I know that's a tremendous impact to the communities out there. Uh but once this project is complete, we should see substantial traffic improvements at that point.

Any questions? Thank you. So look, I mean, we're significantly progressed through the uh plan. So it sounds like we're at least at 60% if not a little further beyond 60%. And there would be for folks in the audience, it would typically be when we're talking about 30%, we talk about 30% plans, 60% and then that's the final the final approval set. So we are, you know, we these these are not just sort of the first brush of the plans as you're saying. That's correct, sir. Thank you, sir. Um, are there any questions among the commission for the public works while we're here?

Thank you for that presentation. How confident do you feel that until spring uh or rather fall of 2027? How confident do you feel in the timeline leading up to the actual construction beginning?

Great question. Um, so again, we're we're uh this is T dot directed at this point, so we're holding with what they're reporting is their schedule, and we know that there's a lot of work to be done to resolve these comments. Um there there's a tremendous number of comments, but that's com common with a project like this, right? And a lot of them are kind of very minor, you know. Um we're we're kind of through the woods on the major comments that, you know, things that had to do with the alignment of the bridge and things like that. Um, my confidence level is very high. I do think that uh T DOT uh I I think this project will be let out to bid in the spring. Uh it it may u you know it may vary by a few months from what we're projecting right now. Uh but I do think we'll be under construction in the fall of next year.

Thank you. Could you um I'm not sure if I missed it, but there's I believe a couple of intersections are going to be signalized as well. a couple of those major intersections in the future will be signalized. I was wondering if you could talk to that a little bit more. I'm trying to recall some of the details of the project uh because things have changed of course as we progress through the design, but um the the Let me get back to you on that question. I believe in Knob Creek um and Mountain View and Knob Creek and Claude Simmons both uh from my understanding were scheduled to be um signalized in the in the future and the line work looks to be consistent with it.

Yes, sir. I I believe that's correct, but uh I just want to double check and make sure and I can get back to you on that. Okay. Thank you. Yes, sir. I had a question. um as they did the design for the overpass, did they include this current proposal for the development and traffic studies?

So, we knew this was a high growth area. Um and and of course, this project, as many of you probably know, has been in the planning stages for the better part of two decades. So, uh but it was anticipated then that there would be a lot of growth in this area. Of course, we're seeing that with all the apartments going up and and new developments being proposed. So, uh the idea behind this project was to essentially mitigate, you know, all that development by providing a new, you know, substantial corridor through the middle of this area. So that was anticipated um you know maybe not track by track and that sort of thing but um certainly uh you know all the way back then they knew this area was was going to see substantial growth so that has been anticipated.

Thank you Mr. Miles. I know this is a T dot project, but could you kind of speak I guess for the benefit of the commission and the audience kind of what that impact would look like on that roadway during the two plus years um as we kind of think about uh the roads around there. Sure. And and a lot of that planning is still underway right now. We are literally having conversations daily about traffic control and impacts and things like that. Uh great question. Um I don't want to oversell it that it's going to be I mean as as your knowledge up to this point as as a liaison I guess with that T dot project.

Sure. Um there are certainly going to be significant impacts from construction. Um we are trying to minimize those as best we can especially to the residents in those communities. Um I don't want to sugarcoat it that there won't be frustrations things like that. Um, but as I like to say in construction, you got to break a few eggs to make a cake and and unfortunately it's going to take us a couple of years to get there. Um, and and there will be uh, again, there will be frustrations with the traffic control, but um, we're going to minimize that to the greatest extent possible. And we're still reviewing those uh, those details at this stage. We actually just had a a three-hour conversation with T dot design engineers about how we can lessen the impacts to say the Mitzvah Hills mitzvah hill subdivision and things like that. So, and and other communities in that area. So, um you know, we'll continue that progress and we're making great progress on minimizing those impacts for sure. Sir, has the placement of Knop Creek and Claude Simmons, is it going to be adjusted at all with the with the execution of this road construction?

Uh, we're we're pretty much at what you saw there in terms of the layout of the project. There are some some details that we're working out. There's an issue that came up with T dot just recently that that requires us to construct a um or to provide some additional right ofway for retaining wall that needs to be constructed. But as far as the layout of the road itself um that that's pretty well established at this point. We don't anticipate any significant design or layout changes at this time.

Had one other question. um you know in the engineering world with with projects when you have multiple projects going on a lot of it's timing in order for them to be successful. So should should we consider possibly a staggered schedule to both the overpass the tunnel overpass or bypass and these surrounding developments that all seem to center right on Claude Simmons and Ford Knob Creek? I I guess I maybe that's more of a an issue above my pay grade, so to speak, uh to deal with, but we certainly understand what's coming for that area. And so we're incorporating those thoughts and concerns into our traffic management plan. Um you know, these these projects like this particular subdivision under review tonight. um you know that'll be considered obviously for what our impacts could be to that project in particular and what their impacts could be to us for sure. So when you get into a project of this magnitude, you're looking at temporary roads, you know, things like that. So, uh it's a mess, you know, no question. But it's it it's a well-managed mess, so to speak. So wish I could u wish I could assure everybody that um that this will be flawless and there won't be you know a lot of frustrations but you know I just want to provide realistic expectations of course.

I appreciate you sharing that. I think we all understand it'll take some choreography to complete the improvements and that overpass is key to resolution of the issues. I think David other questions of Mr. Miles. Okay. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. I had some additional questions for staff. Yes, sir. The development staff, please. Riley, when was this property originally designated as a RP3? When it was annexed in 1994? 1994. And has the RP3 definition changed since 1994? Do you know?

Not that I'm aware. No. So that lot uh definition has pretty much been consistent and not changed in 30 years. Correct. 32 years. Yes. Thank you. Can you go back to that um a couple slides back where you were talked about the 6.10.1.3 and we just went over that so fast. I want to make sure I understood that correctly. So, it's saying that each plan residential development shall be compatible with the surrounding or adjacent districts.

Yes, ma'am. And usually with concept plans, we see them at the time of a resoning to an RP3 or or RP district or residential district. Since this one was annexed without a concept plan, the role of the the meeting tonight is to approve that concept plan. And that is um determined in that section of compatibility. And I think typically language like that typically applies to well that's residential to residential, not residential to heavy industrial or something like that. Yeah. Thank you. I have a question. Can you pull up the concept plan for us?

Yes. Um it's a little unusual to see two ingress egress so close together, you know, between slots one and 71 and 72 and 87 just approximately 300 sheet maybe. And there's no connectivity within the the actual subdivision itself, which again is a little unusual for many of the subdivisions that we see. Can you speak to that?

I would refer probably to our public works and traffic department on that to speak to that connectivity. Um Oh, apologies. I'll get Anthony Todd up here. Hello, I'm Anthony Todd, public works traffic. Um, yes. So, we do um have concerns about too many access points. So there's a standard of around 330 ft typically that we're trying to achieve to try to get uh the access points to a minimum. And so this is in the the approximate range of what they would need. And if we need to make adjustments, we always work with them. One of the things that we always uh look at is site distance. And so that's one of the things that they'll have to look at when they start putting together the final plans.

I had a question for staff as well. Um, when was the latest traffic study done on this this area at Knob Creek and Claude Simmons? There was one done about a year ago for a development that is not going to happen and uh so it gave us some idea of what might happen with this. Um there is going to be an increase as we all expected. There's already delays there and it would increase the delays according to that study around 15 to 20% but that development was about twice the density. twice the density as this proposed. And one other question, has there been a utilities power, water, and sewer study done with this development? That is not my area. I apologize,

Mr. Mr. Tob. Perhaps before you depart, I'm sorry, but one question for you. Um, as I as looking at the looking at the site plan there, and I and lot 58 particularly looks rather close to Claude Simmons. Now, Claude Simmons, as we know, is is a thorough affair. It is not just a local residential street. Folks use that all the way to the main road into into Jonesboro. Um I mean I can envision a time when something similar to what's happening on Mountain View happens on Claude Simmons when the traffic study is complete for this project which would be at the preliminary plat. Is that something we're going to be look at looking at there and making sure we're preserving right of way for um or space for future right of way for widening should it be required? Yes. And and this actually um they are actually building by the new alignment. So they are actually building um so that it allows Claude Simmons to move as it needs to with the Knock Creek project.

So this this this concept plan contemplates that scenario. It does. Okay. Thank you. Okay. And just just so that we and and everybody in the room fully understands at the point that we're doing the preliminary plat and We then have the traffic study completed. Maybe Riley, if you could help us map, let's say that the traffic plan indicates that there needs to be a change to the plat. Can you just walk us through what that would look like after already accepting a a concept plan?

Absolutely. So, the concept plan that would let's say that this plan gets approved. um any significant changes and that's determined in the zoning code by increase in intensity or density um location of egress or ingress significant changes of interior road layout or building layout that would require a concept plan amendment. If a preliminary, if the traffic study comes back and requires a minimal changes to road layout or rightway to be added, um that would not require a concept plan amendment.

And Commissioner Williams, I wanted to verify because I misunderstood your question, but there is a storm water um conveyance along the interior between the two, which is why the two phases do not connect. Other questions of Miss Pubney from the commission? Okay.

May I ask a question of a different department? Um maybe public safety can help us with this one. Um we've heard and read concerns about public safety and access to all of the addresses and all of these neighborhoods. And I I appreciate the note in the staff presentation saying that um we have emergency services within a couple of miles and that is standard, but can you just walk us through, you know, we we don't want to be dismissive of our neighbors feeling this way and we want to hear them out. So just walk us through your perspective.

Yeah, so we've looked at this uh thank you for having me that we've looked at this concept plan uh in the pre-development stage and um the two different areas. We looked at access those meet the adopted codes and so we currently respond to that area and what we looked at was our ISO requirements to have that five mile radius and what we found is we have three three fire department or fire stations station five station six and station four that are within that zone and we currently respond there now

is the um with the we we all know that the uh that single um lane railroad tunnel presents um traffic issues. Are you experiencing um significant issues as a consequence of that? You able to are you able to respond in a timely manner? Yeah, our response times are meeting our benchmarks currently. Um don't anticipate any additional problems. Uh there's certain times a day obviously that are busier than others, but we can get our ladder truck and our initial response engine through there with no problems. Okay. Thank you. Will that be the same during the road construction? Will there be any problems?

Um, I don't know how to answer that because I don't know what will be delayed, but any construction, um, we're usually aware of that. We communicate very well with the street department. So, any long-term road construction that's going to shut that, um, response area down, we'll have to work out a different plan on a temporary basis to make sure that we can cover those zones. But in this particular area, we have we can come up Claude Simmons, we can come Knob Creek from Boone Creek or we can come like Mountain View or come over from State of Franklin.

Is there any concern about I guess the the northern person portion of that uh concept plan uh lot 72 to 97 where you just have one ingress egress as opposed to multiple connectivity and access. Yeah, initially we did look at that uh in the pre-development and we the way that I view that um per attend D. Um if you look at that as a separate thing, it doesn't hit that 50 uh 50 unit requirement to have a secondary fire department access and so that that is acceptable by code. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

Any other questions of staff before we open public hearing? Okay, with that we will now um open the public hearing uh section of this agenda item. Um folks wanting to uh speak, please one at a time come forward and uh please be cognizant of the clock. It's three minutes and remember name and address please if you would.

Commissioners and city representatives, thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening. My name is Melanie Richards and I live at 13 Carriage Court in Johnson City. I'm here because of a primary concern related to the existing traffic situation and significant strain that I believe this development would add. I've lived in Sterling Springs for 11 years now with my husband and our five children, and it's a wonderful community. But traffic at the one-lane tunnel at the intersection of Knob Creek, Claude Simmons, and West Mountain View has steadily worsened over time due to increased residential growth. It's common today for residents to sit at least four or five lights at prime times of traffic during the day. As those lights change, it pushes everyone back in their commute. This is not simply an inconvenience. I do believe it is a public safety issue. I actually spoke with a firefighter today at fire station 5 um when I called to verify that they were responsible for covering our area. He shared that crews already avoid this corridor whenever possible because of consistent congestion at the tunnel and expressed surprise that additional development is being considered before the construction of the Kn Creek overpass is completed. This is especially concerning given the known challenges for quick emergency responder access. Even the Chattanooga based developer has acknowledged the severity of this issue when at a recent neighborhood meeting he was asked directly whether he had personally experienced the traffic at this location. He responded yes and it's a mess. So something I guess we can all agree on. While the traffic study has been proposed, based on the prior notes from the city, we understand that results will only be addressed through things within the developer's control. Additional entrances and exits for this development would not resolve the core bottleneck issue, which we just heard

earlier this evening will probably not be resolved to the end of this decade in a best case scenario by the possible legitimate solution of the planned Knob Creek road widening and overpass. Until that infrastructure is completed, adding this level of density will continue to escalate both traffic and safety concerns. We respectfully ask that you delay approval of this concept plan at least until the necessary infrastructure improvements are in place. As you've seen before each of you tonight, we've submitted a petition signed by at the check right before this meeting, I saw over 600 residents and community members. And this has been submitted to you electronically and in print. In addition, it includes comments reflecting broader concerns which my neighbors and other community members will speak to as well this evening. I thank you so much for your time and consideration of our feedback. Thank you.

Thank you, ma'am.

Excuse me, ladies and gentlemen. If we if we could I know I'm sure everyone's going to be in appreciation, but if we could cut if we could watch the applause just in the spirit of moving things along. Thank you. I'm Sarah Jane Delvecia, resident of Johnson City and I live in Five Garden Way and I'm here to echo some of the concerns that have already been brought forth. Um, I do appreciate the planning that has been done and I appreciate you taking residential expansion seriously. I by no means am any sort of development. I understand there's been a supply and demand issue of housing. However, it needs to be done responsibly and thoughtfully and not just with the promise of something from the state. We need to make sure it actually gets done. I'm sure you remember back in the pandemic 21 22 all sorts of things got jacked up, moved around. It has taken years for things to finally get back. I'm not saying there's going to be another pandemic, but I think we can all agree that you never know what can happen in a year. So, my request that would be that we just hold off on this until we actually see that road uh that bridge construction starting. Thank you. Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Laura Wheeler. My husband Jim and I live at Fort Wendelsham Court in the Sawers Pond neighborhood off Claude Simmons Road. We've lived there since 2015 and have been active members of Washington County in the Johnson City community since moving here in ' 92. I'm here tonight to oppose the Cell Farm subdivision as it is currently proposed. LFG Homes out of Chattanooga were requesting approval to build 97 homes on approximately 22 acres just past the tunnel at Knob Creek. While this property has been zoned RP3 since 1994, the surrounding area has changed significantly. Established neighborhoods like Sawyers Pond, Sterling Springs, Alexander's Grove, Strawberry Fields, Mitzvah Hills, Stone Ridge, and Simmons Ridge were developed later and consist of larger homes and long-term residents who have made substantial investments in this community. 97 homes represent a level of density that is not appropriate for this location, particularly giving existing infrastructure constraints. Traffic is already a serious issue in this quarter. Claude Simmons Road and Knob Creek Road cannot safely handle additional traffic. The tunnel on Knob Creek Road is known as a known bottleneck with long delays during peak hours. Traffic has already increased due to the recently completed apartment developments on Knob Creek and those apartments are not yet fully occupied. As they reach capacity, conditions will worsen before any new construction or subdivision traffic is added. The cumulative impact of continued development in this quarter must be considered now, not project by project. I travel this route multiple times each day for work, errands, appointments, and I experience these delays and safety concerns firsthand, especially at the tunnel. Emergency access is another concern. Emergency vehicles must n navigate through the one-lane tunnel and flooding during

heavy rain, particularly near Sawers Pond and Alexander's Grove, can further delay response times. Residents were previously told an overpass would be constructed following the apartment developments. Those developments are now complete, yet the overpass and other roadway improvements have not been built. At a minimum, I respectfully ask that this project be paused until the overpass and necessary infrastructure improvements are in place. I also urge the planning commission to consider fewer homes and larger lots. 97 homes on this site is simply too dense. For these reasons, I respectfully request that the cell farm subdivision be denied as currently proposed or at least paused until the overpass is complete. Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you, ma'am.

Hello. My name is Colin Johnson. My wife Carly and I live at 15 Carriage Court. This is in our backyard. And I'm um serving as the uh president of the Sterling Springs HOA as well. This was prepared by Larry Donovan, one of our longtime residents who lived there since the development started. and he wanted me to tell you May 22nd, 1994 was when um the city annexed the 206 acres on Claude Simmons Road, a very large parcel called Car Sterling Springs annexation. It was formalized with or ordinance number 3209. According to a published city information page, the acreage included Sterling Springs subdivision totaling 71.8 acres divided into 57 lots. The balance of the acreage 134 was the sale family farm which straddled Claude Simmons Road. Sterling Springs subdivision has been zoned R2 low density res residential in 1991. Stone Ridge subdivision 53 acres were annexed by the city also zoned R2 low density. Other sub subdivisions followed. Mitzpai Hills in 1996. Uh Strawberry Fields in 1996. The Hayes Farm also beside Strawberry Fields in 1996. All of those subdivisions totaling almost 150 acres were all zoned R2 low density residential. Even Alexander's Grove and Sawers Pond which were added later in the 2000s and 2008 respectively are zoned R2 lowdensity residential. These tracks combined with the railroad property virtually surround the cell property and even include part of the cell farm which was in the Sterling Springs annex station. The acreage in the request before you is part of the 92 acre sale farm remaining that's still undeveloped in the Sterling Springs annexation currently zoned RP3 a zone for which there's no jurisdiction or justification sorry um how is it that the zoning for 92 acre parcel is not one or two steps lower every other property in the area but all four steps are more

dense where the permanent permitted density higher than even R5 density uh residential That was his question. Um, it sure has the appearance of spot zoning and I don't know that that was your all's back 30 years ago when you you guys annexed it. Uh, the zoning code has been adopted with primary goals of property owner protection and orderly expansion and growth for Johnson City. We're asking for a logical continuation of existing low density subdivision patterns, not spot change or isolated development that this appears to be. So, we approve, we urge that you disapprove this plan, and we're not for, you know, non-development. This is my backyard. I see that beautiful field every morning. And um we we know development's coming. We just think that it needs to be done respectively. And everything on that side of the tunnel is R2. It just I don't think the the founding fathers before you guys were thinking ahead. And so, I think that I know it's we as property owners that we don't own the property. We can't ask that it's reszone, but we do request that you guys treat it like R2 when you approve a plan and then please wait until the bridge is done.

Thank you. Thank you.

I'm Dr. George Youngberg. I live at 14 Carriage Court uh in Sterling Springs. I've been on the faculty of the medical school here for almost a half a century now. Um, and in that time I've witnessed an amazing and wonderful growth and development of wonderful Johnson City. Um, but I would like to give my perspective on a couple points. One is I recall reading in the newspaper I think back in the early 2000s that the city had safety concerns about the underpass. And I think that's uh documented by how how much importance the city gave to finding a solution, obtaining federal money, working with the uh state organizations. So clearly there was a safety concern back in the early 2000s and uh and a great effort by the city to start trying to address that. Now we come to the point where uh just in the last few years there's been an amazing increase in traffic in North Johnson City. Uh impressive increase. And I nobody knew Johnson City when I came down here. Now I get all these feeds. Johnson City on my medical news feeds the best place in the country for doctors to retire. I mean, we're right up there. USA Today, the whole, you know, the population is exploding. So, you've got a situation where the safety concerns were here back in 2002. The population is currently exploding. The traffic study you talk about seems to be focused on ingress and egress to the subdivision. doesn't address the broad traffic issues to my understanding at all. And the traffic just keeps growing

and growing and growing. And it's it's feeding in from the Boon Creek side. It's feeding in from the Jonesboro side. Uh and then you're adding more things in the area, especially right at the tunnel. Now, I mean, it's a massive increase. And it's not going to stop. I don't think it's going to increase next year, the year after, the year after cuz we are the destination now in Johnson City or one of them for the country. Top 10 places to retire on and on. So the p the thing is not going to stop. It's going to keep co going. It's already bad. I it was nice our uh fire official thought that they were okay but I think clearly uh I say this partly as a physician I think clearly there are some concerns at this point but that's at this point traffic will increase things will get temporarily worse as we know during the construction and uh and the the feeding will come from all areas. So

thank you. Thank you sir. We appreciate your comments. Okay, that was your time. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Yes, sir.

Uh good evening. My name is John Flareity. I work at I live at 2817 Knob Creek Road. So, I'm just about a a half mile above the uh proposed site. Uh just a couple comments. First of all, I'd like to just, you know, concur with all the previous comments. So I won't repeat all those. Um just uh would like to see uh in order to uh properly assess the compatibility of the new subdivision with the old is to put them on the same drawing to scale so that you can see how much tighter the new subdivision is relative to the surrounding properties on all on one drawing. Uh that would be nice. Um the uh T dot engineer um basically said that the uh construction would start in fall of 2027. It would take two plus years. Well, plus that that's a big word. Two plus years. It could be three years, could be four years, could be five years. And if that is the case, we're looking at 2030, 2031. And this um subdivision could easily be uh completed and much less time. And of course then now you've got a whole bunch of new families, all sorts of mix of traffic on top of a construction project being done all at the same time. So um maybe we need to clarify exactly when the bridge project will be done rather than when when it's going to start. And also I think um there was a question about sewer or storm water and sewer that the city engineer was not able to answer. I'm wondering if he we're actually going to get an answer to that before you actually make a decision.

So that's all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Hi, good evening. My name is Jennifer Glasco. I live at 137 Simmons Ridge. And um I thank you guys for listening to us tonight and for some very thoughtful questions earlier. I appreciate those. I'm also not going to reiterate some of the things I had in my notes to talk about because you've heard it a lot already about annexation and zoning. But um my I will reiterate the concerns about the traffic and the tunnel since the annexation of the properties we talked about. Approximately 240 houses on my count have been constructed in those areas over 30 years. For reference, the new development proposes 97 houses in one development alone despite the fact that no road infrastructure improvements have been made to address the increase in traffic over the last 30 years when the need for mitigation was first identified. In 1997, Washington County and Johnson City officials first asked for a formal study to replace the onelane tunnel where the railroad crosses Knob Creek Road. The first estimate I could find of completion in the history was 2017 and 18 uh when it was initially pro proposed to begin but was delayed due to funding shortages and rising costs. For 30 years, the overpass project has been delayed by cycles of land acquisition, changes to the design, and budget increases as construction prices have soared over three decades. and we're still waiting for a solution for the traffic concerns. With the railroad separating Johnson City from this area of development, the overpass is the only possible traffic mitigation for any impact due to the new development. And as we already discussed, we're looking at uh the end of the decade for that to be completed. According to our public works director, I understand that this proposed development meets the zoning requirements of RP3 that were assigned in 1994. 30 years later, I'm asking the city officials to take into account our current situation. While reszoning the property might not be an option, if each of you were sitting here today considering annexing the property for the very first time, but in today's conditions, would you still give it the same designation? Just because the design proposed meets the requirements of the zoning assigned 30 years ago

might not mean it's the right development for this location at this time. I respectfully ask that you consider reducing the density of the development proposed on this property or delay approval until the only possible traffic mitigation solution is complete and in place. Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you ma'am.

Is there anyone else who would like to speak to this matter? Looking around. Okay. Is the developer here? Would the developer like to come forward and uh present? I think that would be helpful. Yeah, please if you would come forward.

Hello, commission. My name is Marcus Lions. Um I I think staff, transportation, emergency services all did a fine job uh submitting and um and uh articulating kind of the rules that have been set by the zoning and how we have tried to stay well beneath um the uh the requirements for such zoning type. Um uh at this time if you guys have any questions I'm sure there are some as it relates to timing um etc. I'd be happy to answer any of those. Yeah, I I'll kick us off with the we'll start exactly there, but if you wouldn't mind, could you walk through the um you not just the entitlement schedule? I mean, so when do you expect to submit for preliminary plan? When do you expect to develop the civil plans? When do you expect to start work? When do you expect to sell the first homes in?

Yeah, absolutely. So currently there's there's already been an agreement with the the city and the pre current land owners for storm water. Uh, as you can see, there was a on the previous plat there was a a storm water easement uh that dumps all the water from the new proposed widing of the road and the water runoff of the the current improvements of Claus Simmons Knob Creek the pass um onto this subject property. Um we would we would like to start our storm water and our development and our infrastructure plans sometime in 2027. This allows us to work roughly at the same time. Uh kind of work as T DOT is working on their plans. Um widening the road um so we can take water from point A to point B, get it through the site on storm water, get it to the proper destination on I'm going to call it the lower track where uh the storm water naturally flows. Um so 2027, mid 2027, we'd start. This is probably a five-year development as you sell homes certain uh

sorry construction start in mid 2027 or

mid 20 mid 2027 for infrastructure. Yes, that's that's roads, storm water, sewer, uh th those above items. Um and then as far as residential and I'm going to call it the vertical construction that would come probably seven to eight months roughly after that. So let's call it late uh late 27 could fall into mid 28. Then it would take roughly four to five years um to construct all the homes as they would be pre-sale homes. Someone comes in, picks the lot, designs what type of house they want. We work with them in picking out finishes, exteriors, etc. They pick their lot and uh we build it out and so on and so forth. So caught mitts call it 32 31 for call it 97 uh families living within the area.

Okay. Thank you. Members of the commission. Other questions for the development?

I have a question. Did you consider a a a smaller number of of lots in your development? Um, we tried to consider that early on. As uh staff mentioned, the site was currently zone for an adequate of, I believe, 197 lots at or 197 units. We took that down by roughly more than half. Um, the current minimum widths were 40 feet. We added 20% to that. We've already articulated that we're willing to add a 20 25 foot landscape buffer around the property. Uh we've already been in conversation with parks and wreck, willing to turn over all the green space of parks and wreck um um for management uh you know for use for walkways, pathways, um stuff like that. So um we feel like we've already taken that into consideration. I understand the concerns of the public. 97 sounds like a lot. Um but the uh as it currently sits now 197 we felt like we somewhat have taken that into consideration and and trying to be cautious and have a little bit of forethought there.

What's the square footage of the houses that you're proposing to build? I would say uh 2800 3500 square ft. I'm sorry. Did you say the houses were 2800 3500 4,000 square ft on a 5,000 Yes. square foot lot. Correct.

I'd like to ask just one more clarifying question as I'm I'm thinking about your timeline and in the context of what we heard earlier from public works and the road construction. Yeah. So it sounds like if you're doing infrastructure in 2027, that might bleed into 20 28 might lead into 28. So residential construction begins. You might sell some homes in 28, right? Might sell some homes in 28. Call it 10 to 15. Yes. But you'll probably sell 25 in 2029.

30 homes 2029. I would say the the the normal kind of rule of uh thumb for absorption at at this price range call it half million dollars and above is going to be call it high teens to okay to mid upper 20s so you're probably close multiply that times four we're looking at you know low 2031ish okay time kind of doing back of the back of the napkin like sure mass you know just because it's built doesn't necessarily mean it's sold and somebody's living there, that just correct. It takes six months to build a house. Um, so you can only build so many at one time. Um,

so as we're looking at that projection, it sounds like, you know, we'll have even if we have 30 households occupied, maybe 50 households occupied by the time allegedly our bridge will be done. Allegedly. Correct. Um, but we're not at max capacity according to to our back of the napkin. Yes. Um, timeline. That's just helpful, I think, for us to understand best laid plans. You know, I think a developer always is trying to stay on schedule, but you never really know what you're going to find and what the market will turn into. So, thank you for entertaining me with this.

Yeah, it's certainly not an apartment deal where someone goes full send and builds a bunch of structures and tries to hammer them in, hammer in residents the time. It's you build a few, you sell a few, you pre-ell a few. So, thank you. Yeah. One other question. So, you're a builder developer. You're not going to be selling the individual lots. You'll be you could come in and do like a pre-by where you pick out a lot and and uh and pick out a floor plan and work with our team, but we would be the builders in there. Yes, we wouldn't be selling off lots of third parties where they go and find their own builder where you have seven or eight different builders in there with a mixed batch of product type.

Okay. One other question. When you all were looking at developing this this acreage, did you look at larger lot sizes for for bigger houses? I mean, look at the, you know, the the value of larger homes versus smaller.

Yeah, we did. We certainly don't want to handcuff oursel or quote unquote discriminate to people who can't afford a million-dollar home like the ones a few neighborhoods down. Um, what we looked at initially was that was zoned for 197 lots. We said, let's take the neighborhood into consideration. Let's kind of look at the path of growth. You have TDK building apartments right here. You have larger lots right here. How can we kind of fit in the middle? Let's try to, you know, you know, take that into consideration. Um, not everybody can have a gated house with, you know, 8,000 square feet. So, we're we're trying to find a nice product for the residents of this community that kind of fits in. And we when we landed at four units an acre, we we thought that that felt right. I know that might not be the um opinion of a lot of the people. We kind of felt like that kind of fit in the middle.

Yeah. Any other any other questions of the development? Thank you, sir. Come up. Thank you.

Okay. Um at this point I'm going to close the public hearing section of this agenda item ladies and gentlemen of the commission the discussion is uh the discussion is among us and perhaps before and perhaps before we discuss um items here I would like just like to make one point I mean I think we've heard one of the cons one of the comments we've heard this evening I think may give us credit for a little bit more discretion than we perhaps have when it pertains to the land use question. Um this site is after all already zoned. Really the we have to look at things within the constraints of the underlying zoning, our policies, our ordinance within with within the framework of the horizon 24 um 2045 um land use map as well. So it we really don't this isn't about the planning commission's personal opinion of lots. We're weighing things to make we're looking at things to see whether they're consistent with what are called entitlements in this case as far as the zoning is concerned. So please do bear that in mind. And now with that,

I'll I'll start. I you know, I started receiving calls about this probably a month or ago or maybe even longer or when I would bump into someone at the grocery store. And I thought the request was going to be for a reasonzoning from maybe like A1 or R2 to the RP3, which I don't know if I would have honestly been in support of, but because and I'm prodevelopment. I'm I'm pro growth, but I'm I'm for smart growth. And I think that subdivisions in this case should should be similar in in zoning to your surrounding subdivisions. Um, and I share the concerns of of the public. I I do I I live in Boone Creek. So, I drive down Knob Creek all the time or I try to avoid it at certain times. Um but um as Commissioner Dutton said, unfortunately it's already zoned RP3 and um so I I am curious to hear um how the other commissioners feel and and I will say that you know tonight is a recommendation for us to the city commission. So, you will have another chance to um to voice your opinions uh regardless of what the decision is tonight. Um so, those are my concerns. I I do I do feel more comfortable and I appreciate the developer being here tonight trying to reach a happy medium um with this development. Um but I I think there's a lot of concerns primarily about traffic and safety. Um, and this is a project that the road has has been going on for for too long, but

hopefully there's light at the end of the tunnel. So, I'll be quiet and let y'all speak. So, it isn't it wonderful to live in one of the greatest cities in the country, right? We've seen we've seen that advertised. I've seen it on news networks. Uh, for a while there, I was seeing cars with California, New York plates and thought there was a festival going on I didn't know about. Um it's a great place to live. We want to keep it that way. We want growth. Um this comes down to a comment I made before. It's about timing and what I see here is kind of a perfect storm. We have a overpass proposal that's coming. We have a development proposal before us. We need to make sure that utilities, traffic studies, safety, all that's taken into consideration. So, from my viewpoint, I would want to see a big picture of all of it. Um, what John Flity referred to earlier is a a drawing, a concept, show all of this and let's see what those concepts look like based on updated traffic studies, uh, utilities and safety.

Just make a quick comment on processing. I believe the the the next step for this particular project, should the concept plan be approved this evening, it would be it would be to come it will come back before us um for a preliminary plat approval. Um as the developer is seeking uh he's he's going to be working with staff ahead of that coming towards coming forward for to ask for approval and that is when the traffic study is completed. Now, the traffic study to put everyone's mind a little bit at ease, it doesn't just cont the traffic study will not just look at the number of access points and are we going to need turn lanes. That traffic study is going to extend. I don't know, Mr. Todd's going to define the scope of that for the developer a little bit, but it's going to include the impact on intersections and on that broader infrastructure network, not just a narrow not just a narrow look at this particular project in the immediate vicinity of it. At that point as well, the staff review involves every department. I mean, the staff has been involved um already fire, we already heard, you know, we know has has seen this this project and um and and looked at it as has water and sewer, but they're going to be looking at it in much more detail at that level. If there are issues, we you know, we'd know about it. But I just want to put everyone's mind at ease. We all of these things are looked at. There is a process and there's a time frame under which they're they're evaluated. Sorry,

Mr. Miles. Can I ask you a question?

I know this is kind of a tough question, but you said when would you be starting the bridge overpass? Was it 27? Uh, we anticipate start of that in fall of 27. Yes, sir. You think two plus years. So when I say two plus years, I don't mean to to indicate that that would be beyond three years, but I I think this project is going to be complete within two to three years. We're again, we're still working on a lot of the detail work that's associated with a project that's, you know, $60 million at this point, more or less. So

well, that's what I'm curious about. I remember long time ago I built a house and they told me it'd be five to six months and it was 18 months, right? And I still don't know why exactly. It just happens. And when I painted my office, yeah, we'll have it done in two days and I'll shut down for 10. So, I'm not meaning to put pressure on you. I'm just curious how you come to that calculation of two plus. It's a I know it's vague. I know that's a hard question to answer. I'm just con I'm concerned that could go into five years. I don't know. And I'm sure I know you you're a very smart engineer.

Thank you. Um, so I know your calculations have been done and redone and a lot of things figured out, but I I just wanted to get this clear for everybody that you think two to three. Yes, sir. Um, complete transparency. Yes, please. Right now we think about 24 months for construction, but I know how schedules are impacted by supply chain issues. Exactly.

Um, you know, just unforeseen conditions, things like that. as anybody knows that lives around here, we have car terrain, we have, you know, limestone that, you know, so we get into foundation problems and things like that. And when we're constructing a bridge with major foundations, you know, we may run into those issues and they can have they can cause substantial delays. For instance, the bridge that we just constructed on West Oakland Avenue had just sort of that just just such a problem with the foundation. we had essentially an underground creek running right underneath the existing bridge. Uh so we had to deal with that. It caused a delay on the project. Um you know those are things that we run into during construction and with even with all the best data you have available, the geotechnical borings and all of that. You still don't really know what you're going to run into until you open up the ground and find it. So

yeah, that's why I was curious. is two like the worst case scenario or is two like if everything goes perfect we're going to be done in two years and I know again I know you can't predict the future I'm just trying to figure out where that two plus is that on the optimistic end is that on the pessimistic end uh I would say two years 24 months is on the optimistic side

um you know again I don't see the project going much beyond that But I I've been doing this a long time and I've yet to see a project that ran perfectly smoothly. I sometimes you come in on schedule. Uh but more often than not, you know, we all saw that with the West Walnut re corridor redevelopment project where there was just so many elements to that project and and and that sort of thing. So you you get into some of those things during construction that you anticipate it as best you can, but until you actually start construction, start running into those conflicts, utility conflicts, again, foundation issues, things like that, all of them add up, you know, and they can add up substantially. So, not trying to scare anybody here. I think everybody's, you know, sees it enough to know that we run into those issues and

this is a that's a monumental task and I I feel better hearing your answer. I know you've done your due diligence. I'm just trying to get an idea of where we stand. I appreciate you coming up there.

Yes, sir. And and to answer a question earlier that you posed, sir, the two signals locations you mentioned, Knock Creek Road and Claude Simmons and Knock Creek Road and West Mountain View, those are the two signal locations. And you know, uh, at at my level, sometimes I'm not in the weeds with those details, but it got me to thinking about, you know, what impacts those two signal locations on both sides of the the bridge will have, you know, so compared to what we have now. Certainly, it'll be improved, but there will be signals there on both sides of that location. So, uh, there'll still be, you know, traffic controls and things like that that'll create delays. it won't be, you know, the sort of project where everybody just gets onto a freeway and they get to where they want to go. So, I just want to manage expectations around

I think you maybe to paint the picture for folks as well. I mean, the fact we are massively increasing um capacity on what is already a thoroughare with with Knob Creek as we increase the capacity, it's going to entice more people to use it, you're going to see more people. You are going to see, I think, more development rather than less in this than this vicinity. And we contemplated that certainly in explicit discussions when we were looking at the growth map and I I think that's something we all anticipate seeing just to again set expectations.

Yes sir. And and just one more critical point is you know again we're going off of T dot schedule right now. So I'm just being completely transparent with you. These are the discussions that we're having with them. But I can tell you as staff we do question are we going to finish the project plans by December? Um, you know, we're all hopeful of course, but we also have 375 comments to deal with right now. So, again, a lot of those are simple comments, plan cleanup issues, things like that. Some of them are more detailed. So, I just again um I'm I'm hopeful and that is our schedule currently as dictated by T DOT, but just to give you some idea of the the the magnitude of the work that still remains.

Sorry if I put you on the spot. I just had to know. Thank you, Dr. West Mo, I appreciate the comments. Thank you.

I had one other question, too. Um, the railroad is good with this design, the overpass. They've went along with uh they are that was a pretty significant issue that we had to get over in the last several months. There was some concern about the alignment uh over uh the railroad, you know, skew angle of the bridge itself. We're beyond that point, but that held us up for a while through the design phase uh to get that resolved with the railroad, particularly their consulting engineers they've hired to review the project. So, uh again, you know, full transparency. You would think uh some of those issues would have been resolved quite some time ago and that was frustrating for us as staff to to have to deal with that. Uh but you know we worked through the problem with the other team players T dot the railroad their consultant uh and our design engineers and got that issue resolved but it it wasn't without some frustration taking one step forward two steps back that sort of thing. Again full transparency. It's been quite a process. Yeah.

Yes it has. So you don't foresee any delays at this point? I mean, the bottom line is you're going to do the bidding in, I guess, in the spring of 2027 and you start construction in fall of 2027. You're pretty confident in that.

Yes, ma'am. That at this time that is the schedule. Um, again, we we do question things because we know how much work remains. Uh, but everybody's pushing to get this project done. We've got politicians involved, local politicians, state level politicians. um T do DOT, everybody involved with the project is really working hard to get this project the design to a complete state. Um that the environmental permitting will lag behind that a little bit into the spring. We do know that uh typically those things like you like to see them dovetail together about the same time. So uh but the time the project's out to bit and the environ environmental permits are finalized should be good timing with that.

Do you have any information on it funding priority? I'm sorry. Do you have any information on its funding priority? The funding priority? Yes. At DOT, uh, it the the new T dot 10-year plan just came back out or um I guess the latest version of that and this is still on their 10-year plan. So, this project is funded. Yes, sir. It is funded. Yes. Thank you. But again, the the I'm sorry and not to get too into the weeds, but the project is funded through uh the connection at Mitzpah Hills subdivision. There is a future phase that connects all the way to Boone Creek Road, which some of you are probably aware of, but that's not part of this project. So, I want to be crystal clear about that.

Yeah, I think we're focused. We had laser focus on that overpass, I think. So, yeah. Thank you, sir. Yes, sir. We appreciate very much all yours your your team's hard work. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Discussion among ourselves. Commissioner Den I can hold.

I've heard several points that encourage me. One is the schedule that the developer described which is not as rapid as I had feared which is encouraging to me. The other is the issue of density. And the issue of density is a concern and I recognize that from simply the the density of people to move in and out of the community. I I recognize that as a concern. But the other aspect of density means that people are moving towards smaller homes. Larger properties are not as attractive to the aging community that we see happening in our country today. People are migrating toward away from larger homes and larger tracks of property. As as I'm aging, I'm moving away. I'm thinking about moving away from the larger homes and larger properties to maintain. I think those are becoming more popular. Smaller doesn't mean lower quality. So, I think we need to be conscious of that and that that's a trend that I think we're going to see grow in our communities. So, small doesn't mean high quality. So, I think I that that encourages me. So, I've heard some things tonight that make me feel better about this concept.

Okay. I was similarly encouraged actually about the um you know, listening to the discussion of the proposed lot sizes and the proposed price price points as well. And I also want to mention that I'm encouraged about the regular order of the way that these things get processed. This is a concept plan. This is not the final approval of this issue. This comes back, this goes to the city commission. We're only in in an advisory role and then this comes back before us with a preliminary plat and then a final plat. So there are multiple steps where this will get reviewed and we'll see much more detail about this as it proceeds. Thank you for those comments. Anyone else? I do. Go ahead.

I reiterate, you know, some of the concerns my colleague said, um, you know, coming into this, the timeline with uh the T dot project was what gave me just such uh such pause and hesitation. You know, hearing from um the members of the community, both those that are in attendance and those that have reached out to likely all of us uh over the last few uh few weeks. Um I am very encouraged hearing um the developers comments that um this is not something that they are um going to snap their fingers and it be fully fully developed. Um I do still have some questions um but I do appreciate um the the dialogue we've had this evening as um both from staff and uh the developer members of our community.

Commissioner Westmore. Yes. I had a question for the developer again.

I think I missed it, but what was the what are you planning on asking asking price for these homes? Around a half million dollars and up. Yes, sir. Okay. And is that pretty standard for all of them? Are they all going to be similar? I know there's a little variation.

Yeah, and there's a little variation in uh to the commissioner over here uh about the sizing, you know. There will be some one stories if if if people do choose to uh go that way. Those will be much smaller. But the twotory the the building pads are roughly 1300 square feet. So it's not it's it's they're two stories. So it's it's not as intrusive if you think. Um and one thing I do want to point out, um back to the zoning, we have an opportunity here. I'm on both sides. We our company, we do multif family, we do residential, we do active adult. Um, one thing, one opportunity we have here is if we get this plan pushed through, um, you have been ironcladed that no one can ever build 197 units on this site. If we wait, the road gets put in three, four lane highway or road sidewalks. It's up on a tea for a build to rent community, big town home player to come in here. And then at what point time you got to tell them no when it's already zoned for, you know, 197 uh units. we have the traffic information that we can support more traffic and the ass may be much more dense. So I would ask the commission to consider you know I I know a four units an acre seems um a little intrusive to to some of to some of the residents but at the same time it keeps the wolves away from building 197 units. Um, so I'll kind of leave with with that thought and Yes. Yes.

I want to ask you a question. Did I just hear you say the pad will be 1300 square feet and it'll be two stories. So that's 2600 square feet.

No. What what I was saying is I was refer referring uh to the commissioner over uh Mr. David Me's uh comment about the sizing and how much of the lot it will take up. These homes will a lot of these homes will be twostory houses. So the ones that are call it 1,500 square ft, they're stacked on top of each other. You have your first floor that's roughly 1,500 square ft. Then you have your second floor which is roughly 1500 ft². So the building pad itself will only be 13 to to,500 square ft. A lot less intrusive than what I think everyone believed that you're going to build a 3,000t house on a 5,000 foot lot. Will there be basements, too? No, ma'am. No basements. No basements. Yeah.

Thank you, sir. Thank you. Okay, back to us comments. Commissioner West Mullen, you look poised. Yeah.

Um, a lot to think about. Thank you for coming back up. Um, reading off of our own strategic plan of 2045 and the four pillars, number one on here is economic vitality. with the quote of focusing on economic growth, supporting business, and ensuring a robust tax base. Putting in another 97 homes creates a large tax base. But the next one down says quality of place. I've lived in the Tri Cities my whole life. Born and raised here. my family. That area out there is amazing. And adding another hundred homes to get some more tax revenue does not make sense to me at the expense of all these neighborhoods. Those homes, most people, their biggest investment in their life is their home. And I can't predict the future, but if that home those home prices got hit hard, that is no different than having your 401k just leveled. And I I have to at least say that I cannot support that. The future ready infrastructure is the next one. There is nothing about that area that's ready for inf. I mean, when my sons were growing up, I used to tell them a lot of life lessons, but one of them was there was a time and place for everything. If you're going to play baseball, play baseball. If you're going to be silly, go be silly. Trying to build this project that you're we all know is coming. At the same time is lunacy to me.

That being said, um I think we need to pause here and get some more facts in it. RP1 makes a little sense. And I know it was it's been zoned for 32 years. Is that what we said? But just like the Constitution, they put it in there. They know things were going to change. You can do amendments and the Bill of Rights and such. we can need to press the, you know, punch the brakes here a little bit, but um um I'm I'm a little concerned at at what I'm hearing to be and I appreciate everyone that had the courage to come out here tonight and stand up there and talk. It's not easy. And the other thing is all the emails that that I received and phone calls and how extremely articulate and very factual they were. um they really made an impact and we don't get really swayed by that more than facts and although this meets certain criteria there's a lot I that I do not think it does. So thank you

commissioner. I um I too have heard you know from a lot of people and I certainly feel for everyone in this room that has concerns about this project. Um the problem is however this planning commission body is to look at what we have presented and what we have presented is an R3. We can't change that. Um, it's got to be R3 or the owner has to be the one who who requests that change. Um, I am very much more encouraged. I was very um very much opposed um to this because of the um traffic and the traffic that it would cause. However, I am I feel a little bit better about it now that the construction timeline of the road is going to basically consist of the same construction of the houses. Um, again, it it's a tough decision for us, but I feel like that, you know, we have to look at the land and we have to look at the zoning and it it is zoned R3 and we don't have really a whole lot of choices in in getting that changed. I echo what Timber has to say and I'm also very sensitive to the strong need that our community has for housing at all price points. This is a familiar and common price point, but we need we need housing at every price point. Our inventory is dangerously low and until we start addressing that, it's going to

continue to be a problem for our community. So, for that reason, I'll be in favor of this proposal. Any more comments? Would someone perhaps like to make a motion?

I'd like to make a motion. Motion to defer approval of the development until the commission thoroughly understands the overall impacts of both the overpass design along with the proposed developments design. From what I understood, it sounded like December would be the design end date of the overpass, which is going to impact the proposed residential area. So, we have a motion on the table. Do we have a second to that motion? I'll second that.

Okay, we have a motion and a second. Um, Heather, would you perhaps Sorry. I don't declare I just want to clarify um that the motion is to defer until December. We need a date certain. Okay. Just want to make sure that that's Yeah, that's that's exactly what I heard. Yeah. Would would that be our December meeting date? That would be that would be my understanding. So, it would be a motion to defer until the December meeting date. Thank you. Okay. Are we pretty certain that the design phase of the road will be done by then?

Well, from what I understood from from M from M. So, what I would understand that to be is if you deferred it until December, we could also provide you an update of where that design process is in December. Yeah. Yeah. But we have a we do have a motion. We do have a a second. So, we need to call the question on that uh on that motion. Heather, would you please call the role? Commissioner Aldridge, sorry. Yes. Commissioner Bombgardner, yes. Commissioner Dagenheart, no. Commissioner me? Yes. Commissioner West Morland?

Yes. Commissioner Williams, no. Commissioner Gates, yes. Vice Chairman Kelly, yes. Chairman Denton, no. Motion has passed. Thank you very much, Heather. Okay, that concludes our business on Claude Simmons for this evening.

Okay. Um, moving on moving on to the next item on our on our agenda, which is the preliminary plat. Yeah, we'll give this a second. Okay, thank you.

Yeah. Mhm.

Excuse me, ladies and gentlemen. We do have some other items to consider if you wouldn't mind. Okay. Please, Miss Putney. Thank you.

Good evening, commission. The item um in front of you now is a preliminary plat approval for Cardinal Forest phases four, five, and six. It is to approve the preliminary plat for those phases uh for 93 single uh family home lots. The planning commission has previously approved the preliminary plat for these additional phases uh in late 2024 and the applicant at the time of construction plan submitt had some changes and they added two additional lots and changed some of the road network. So that is why the preliminary plat has to come back for approval. So, the new preliminary plat is still RP3 with a minimum lots requirement of 4,000 square feet. All 93 lots meet the existing requirement um with an with their minimum at 5,200 square ft. their open space for the for phases four, five, and six are being met uh and exceeded by 18% active space and 7 and a half% of that is walking trails and picnic areas. There are sidewalks on the public rideway and streets are being constructed to local street standards with one exception um that I will talk about at the uh later slide. Uh in addition for the rest of the development phase four, five, and six, there's no concerns with water and sewer. The streets will connect to the existing stub on Grafton Avenue. There's an existing rideway uh Hamshshire Hamshshire Street and the traffic circle on Devonshshire Avenue. A variance is being requested for the sidewalk connection uh on Grafton Avenue due to the grade and topography. And to promote connectivity, there is a stub um between lots 521 and 608 on Grafton Avenue.

This is the cross-section that the applicant is providing and it was previously granted in the original um preliminary plat for the phases four, five, and six. And it's due to that slope on Grafton Avenue that is pretty steep that uh staff and the developer have agreed to have the sidewalk on one side on the north side of Grafton. And that is depicted at the top. That's the cross-section that they are uh providing with their regular local street on the bottom. The original preliminary plat that was approved concept planwise in 2007 is this is the entire development. So phases one through six currently. Uh there's not any significant changes. There's you know a small bend in the road here and there but nothing that has been deemed significant. And so the proposed preliminary plat does still uh meet and is in line with the approved concept plan of 2007. So staff would recommend approval of the preliminary plat and for the variance request of figure seven of the subdivision regulations for Grafton Avenue.

Thank you, Miss Button. Questions of staff. I had a question for our fire team. They could come up. Hi, I had a question. Um, do you have any concerns about your equipment being able to service this new neighborhood with it the ingress and egress being in between two existing neighborhoods versus a major road?

I'm just looking at the the proposed roads in the street system. We currently respond in that area. that would actually give us a connector and give us other options to come through the Lakeidge subdivision should anything else become blocked. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions of staff? Okay. Um discussion among us. Does anyone have any comments that they would wish to make?

Looking around seeing. Sorry. I'll make a motion to approve the preliminary plan and the variance request as presented. Second. We have a motion. Yeah. Commissioner, Vice Chairman Kelly seconded. I think she just beat everyone else to the punch. Just Okay. All right. We have a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion? Okay. Seeing none, Heather, would you call the role, please? Commissioner Aldridge? Yes. Commissioner Bombgardner? Yes. Commissioner Dagenheart, yes. Commissioner me, yes. Commissioner West Morland, yes. Commissioner Williams, yes. Commissioner Gats, yes. Vice Chairman Kelly, yes. Chairman Denton,

yes. Motion has passed. Thank you very much. I think that concludes the business items on our agenda. Are there any reports to discuss this evening from staff? No. Okay. Seeing seeing none, it is 7:42 and we will adjourn the