Inland Wetlands Commission - Regular Meeting

It is six o'clock. We'll call the uh Old Lime Inland Wetlands and Water Commission meeting to order at 6 o'clock. First on the agenda is 40 Flat Rock Hill Road request for jurisdictional determination. Michael and Elizabeth Lamar are the applicants. See no one here. So, but I can give you just a summary of what they're doing. They're doing a timber harvest if you guys got the paperwork on it.

And you know what I told them is look, you need to come into the wetlands commission and ask for them to determine that you you don't have jurisdiction on it. So they're not here. So you have what's in the paperwork. I really don't want to sort of make the presentation for them, but um if it truly is just a timber harvest, then traditionally that sort of thing is exempt from the wetlands commission jurisdiction. Um I'll say sort of basic questions, but again, I'm not going to stand here and sort of make the applications presentation for them. If you think you want to have them come in next month, we'll try and get them in next month, but uh we don't have a meeting in December or No, no, you're we have a meeting in December. Oh, and that's next year.

We do not. So is is that by I didn't get a chance to look up through the regulations, but is that by regulation? By statute, actually by statute, if it is truly a timber harvest, then it is exempt from well, but again, I was hoping to get more information as to what exactly they were doing. Um they do have again the the foresters um report in here, right? But um again, that it's sort of up to you as to how you want to handle it. Um well their application clearly calls out solely a timber harvest strategic call.

Again if you think that this is good enough then just indicate that you you believe it's exempt. Um and again the way this is done is you they may request for not uh for notice jurisdiction. So you would make a finding you would make a motion that the wetlands commission has no jurisdiction and therefore no application is required. So what in your experience I mean what could it be besides what they are I mean saying it is honestly if it's cutting that would be a different story if they were putting in a road if they were putting in other things that were sort of associated with this potentially you could have jurisdiction and stuff like that and doing fill and stuff like that

there could be more that sort of I mean they could be using this as a way to develop the land later and they're putting in infrastructure that's tied to her. I don't see that in here. Um, and they're working with a qualified harvester, right? You're talking I'm not saying it's a defective application. I think you you probably have enough to make that determination, but that's you guys have to make that determination. And I don't I don't want to be their representative here. I just want to say I think you've probably got enough. But if you have any questions, I really can't answer the questions regarding what more than what's just in here. So,

I mean, I know other people on that road that own significant uh parcels have done selective harvesting before and that's just exactly what it's been. So, um I I don't I don't think we have any reason to say the application is defective or it's something that other than what's in front of us. So I would I would uh move that it is that we do not have jurisdiction on selective timber harvesting. Okay. Is that just a vote? We vote that or we just you need to make motion. This is something that is a motion that we have. Second. Okay. All in favor.

Okay. Any oppose? And Eric, if you will notify them, that Yeah, we'll notify them. Um, they don't get an actual like permit because there's obviously no permit here, but they will get a letter saying there's been a finding of no jurisdiction. Julie will publish it in the newspaper. And I mean, theoretically, if one of their neighbors wanted to appeal, they could. I don't think it's going to happen here, but this is a a vote like any other vote you take, and it is treated as a decision of your of your commission. So, when you do that letter, does it say um provided you do not do

Well, no. I mean, basically, it says per the application presented, we find no jurisdiction, if you expand on the terms of your application, you'll need to come back and and seek further input from our office. If they do more than select or if we or somebody witnesses something, yeah, we will limit your determination just to what is presented. they do more than what is presented then they're exceeding the terms here. So moving on to number two under new business 25-29 application 3 Jaden Drive extension of existing permit by Diana Martinez.

Yeah. Again kind of wishing the applicant was here. Um as you guys probably noticed there's not that much to the application, right? Um, you know, honestly, it doesn't look like they're doing that much. And before you decide whether you sort of want more, I would probably um I think that's our Okay, number one. Hi. Hey, how's it going? What application? Should I sit right here or Well, well, what application you here for? The first one? Yes, the 40. Okay. They've already determined that they have no jurisdiction. You're too late. So, it's over. Oh, I'm good. You guys uh submit that as as a right or

Yeah, we found you have no jurisdiction. So you will get a letter just saying if you could keep to the terms of what you gave us, we should be good to go. All right, sounds good. Appreciate it. Take care. Okay, Timing is everything, I guess. Right.

Um again, up to you guys what you want to do. My recommendation is that you at least set a sidewalk and go out there and see what this looks like and if you think you need more information, ask them for more information. But again, you you got very little to work with and there was honestly a bit of a language barrier trying to get more information out of them. Um, so again, if you want me to ask for additional information, I could certainly do that. They don't have a soil scientist report. Obviously, they don't really have a survey. Um, so they don't really have much, but again, they're not really asking to do much. So it's up up to you guys how you want to handle it. So how I I'm just a little So this is Yeah.

This is extension of existing permit. So it's only they're asking for a wetland permit. I know they haven't phrased it the way they they want accurately. They don't have a permit. They do not they do not have a perm. The the existing house is within 100 feet. So they phrased it as because the existing house is within 100 feet, this is an extension of the existing requirement to be because I mean they wanted to go out six feet and then they amended it to five feet. Yeah. And now they want the permit. Well, they want a new wetlands permit for this activity. Okay.

I mean there's no, you know, it's 26 feet across and 5t wide or how however you want to do it. Um again if you feel you need more information I certainly understand if you visit the site I mean what is the it's map wetland you know I just looked at what was available online yeah I mean I didn't photo unfortunately um I will be honest the issue lawn if it's lawn

it's it's it's lawn but I mean I'm not sure how familiar you are with this little subdivision there um lawn Uh it's really low to the ground and the ground water table there is really high. Um so yeah, I mean we have weeping lawn. Is that what you're saying?

Well, I mean with within a few years I expect that whole subdivision is going to have some some issues. I mean, there was a a lot one straight over where they had to put in a rain garden per approval and they put the rain garden in the bottom just to water. Um, so yeah, I mean, do I as a as your wetlands officer, do I have a problem with the the application? Theoretically, no, not really. But it is a fairly sort of wet neighborhood and the wetlands are I don't know 60 70 ft off um behind the site there. So um again my my recommendation is you at least just go out and take a look and then decide how serious you think this is and go from there. But again if you if you want more information ahead of time I will try and get more information from these two women. And again, they contacted Julie this this afternoon and Julie told them that you got you guys were active tonight and they're not here. So again, I don't know what to tell you beyond that. But again, there has been candidly some language issues here. Um, so there just isn't isn't much to work on.

You saw that site would be the only sidewalk until after the J after January's meeting. Yeah, it's the only sidewalk you'd have. So, I'm not sure when you'd want to do it or or whatever, but and again, if you want me to have them, maybe we could do a a sitewalk this month and if it's an administrative approval, handle it that way. I think it's best case scenario is administrative. At least we see it to come back. Yeah. Okay. Right. Do we want to set a date for a sidewalk then? Sure. And obviously sun is an issue these days, so I'm not sure how you want to do that. 4:30 it's dark. This one's And it's right off the road. Like you can see it basically from the the road if you drove by. It's the first lot on on Jaden.

Yeah. And it's literally just behind the house. So this is not going to be a long walk into the woods like some of the other ones you've had. Um, would we want to because of the daylight being an issue, would we want to try to do something on the weekend, Sunday at 2:30, like December 7th, right? You know, December 7th or November 30th, people are busy for Thanksgiving, obviously. Well, that's it's for Thanksgiving, right? So, it's the week following. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm out of town, but you guys go for it. I I mean, I'm out of town as well on December 7th, but if we can get four, that's all we really need, right? Probably. I could do I could do, you know, I mean, we don't have to do it at late. We could if we could get do it in the afternoon. Can anybody do the 30th? The 30? I I can do the 30th. I can do the 30th. Yeah. You want to try 2:30? Like 2:30 before we get on November 30th. November 30th. I could do that, too. I could do that. Fine by me. 2:30. November 30th. 2:30. We'll let them know.

I don't know that we would need staff there. Would we? I mean, we didn't need to see it. I'm not going to ask Julie to drive down from Windsor for I I will come by. Okay. Okay. We should have some level of staffing. is the weekend and we'll need a confirmation before then from them, right? Yeah, we will let them know that we intend to be there and if they're not able to be there for some reason, I will I will certainly pass that back. We stay in the right way. I feel like it's one where if we can't I'll get it done for say we can take a get eyes on it before we at least Why don't we at least try and reach out to them and see if they're available for the 30th 2:30 and if I run into any difficulties I will let you know. Yeah.

Okay. I expect it's probably a five 10 minute sidewalk at most. And again, I don't think I need to call Julie down from Windsor for that. No. Right. Moving on to number three, adoption of the 2026 regular meeting calendar dates. So, we have those in front of us. Looks like we would have uh our first meeting in January, no February meeting, and then looks pretty normal until no December meeting for 2020 six. Anybody any issues or No, that's why is there no meeting in February? Traditionally, you guys haven't had one.

It's just Okay. I think we I think we ended up having one last year. Yeah, we added one cuz there was too much in the winter stuff going on, but if if there isn't then we could always do that. It's just not a it's just not a schedule meeting. We could do it. Yeah, I don't have any problem with that. Right. Do I have a motion to accept our busy in motion to accept? Second. All in favor?

I. Any oppose? Mentions. Unanimous. Okay. Seeing no old business. Does anybody have any old business? Okay, we'll move on to regular business uh or enforcement update. 301-1 Mile Creek Road.

Um nothing really to report other than again my understanding is that Ed Cassella has been in touch with attorney McCoy to try and reach some sort of settlement of litigation. Um my understanding is the property remains in the same condition, so there's nothing really new going on there. Um, at this point, we're going to just have to wait for Attorney Cassella to come back to us with whatever the results of his discussions with attorney McCoy are, and I know we have the property owners here. I don't know what else to to tell you beyond that. Um, I told uh for the property owners I was just going to make a very short report because didn't have anything much new to say, but um, again, my understanding is Cassella and McCoy have been talking about.

Okay. Uh, Mr. Swain, do you want to add anything? um at this point I you know second stance I guess we're uh has asked us if we were u willing to make an offer on the $4,000 um attorney's fees and we are not. Um so we're not willing to pay that 4,000 and uh we feel that uh because the application was submitted on the night that the uh judgment was uh proposed and approved uh it's counterproductive. We we had an after the-act application that was accepted and uh at the same meeting uh you um move forward with a uh lawsuit and so you know we had put our application in and uh we did spend $40,000 so you know uh and we did remove everything that was at at your request. We removed everything that we wanted. Um I I think we've spent enough money on that. Uh not only us, but I think the town has. We have a lot of sleep and dog lie. Uh you we've already demonstrated that we know how the application works. We've been here. We filled out an application. Uh you denied it. We didn't do any work. Uh we're allowing the mother nature to take its course. Um, I think uh $40,000 was a big enough spank in to uh just put this put this to bed.

Okay. Well, u you know, we'll we'll have to see what the lawyers come up with, but appreciate the input. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. 16 Neck Road and two Sharon Drive.

Um I really have heard nothing further from the Notos. I will say that a very sort of interesting sequence of events happened on Friday. Um the lawyer for the Nitos called the tax collector and said he understands that the uh matter is going to be going to collection. They owe that $100,000 in taxes on the site. Um and the interest rate goes up to December 1st. Um could he get a payoff to sell number four uh Sharon Drive? And so the tax collector called me and said, "Is he able to sell lots yet?" And I said, "No. Um, he hasn't given us a bond for the road. He hasn't uh done the wetlands work. He hasn't um t given us the open space. He's not free to sell lots." So I emailed and said, "I hear you're going to try and sell a lot. Do not do that." And he wrote back saying, "Where would you get that information? I have no plans on selling any of the lots." And I said, "Your lawyer gave us this information. So maybe if you're not planning on selling lots, you should talk to your own lawyer about this." Um, so that's where we are at this point. I have been constantly sort of in touch with the town clerk. Nothing has been recorded. Um, so but I'm waiting to see what happens between now and January f December 1st rather. Um, but no, at this point we're sort of still pretty much exactly where we were. So I think what we'll just let matters proceed and again I'm not going to sort of go into details with what Cassella is working on, but um you guys are are aware what what should be happening on that fairly shortly. Okay. So I I I remember that there was an issue with his sighting of a house that was had the forms in it and he was

Yeah, that was to Sharon Drive where there we actually issued the cease and assist order.

What you are waiting for on to Sharon Drive is are two things. One of which is he was supposed to give you an accurate survey showing where that foundation was. Um, and he was supposed to give you a planting plan for what that 20 foot buffer was going to look like. Um, we have not seen either of those. Um, additionally, he had guys in there that were pulling um material out of the wetlands from where he would had filled in. Um, we are supposed to get a report saying that that was done in conformance with Rich Narski's plan. We don't have that either right now. Um, you know, basically there's just a lot that isn't being done there that needs to get done. Um, and again, most concerning from the standpoint of selling lots, the pipe under the road still has not been repaired. And therefore, I expect at some point that road will become impassible when that pipe shifts. And I'm not going to be issuing any cos until we can make sure that you can access beyond that point in the road. But again, I've notified Mr. Rosito. He should not be selling any of the lots. Um, he did not respond after I gave him that notice. Okay.

Have we ever done um in a past life when we had problems with individual lots in order to protect land owners that might be or future property owners that might buy them, we would put a notice of violation on the land record. Have we ever done that here? I mean, Usually they do on the wetland side. We certainly can look at it. I'll talk to Ed Cassell about it just to be sort of give a notice that there's a permit for that one lot. I mean there may end up being at this point a Liz pendants on it in the near future. Right. That's you know indicating there's an active lawsuit. So yeah. Okay. So that would so long as there's a way that someone that might be looking at a lot

is aware that there's aware that there's a lawsuit, you know, whether we have to put a note, you know, and hopefully their attorney is sharp enough to find it. Depends. I don't know. But again, I will talk to Cassell about where things stand with that and try and make sure we get a notice on the land records with Ed Pickicket. You know, a title searcher would pick it up for the attorney. So I mean theoretically paler should come upstairs and talk to us but obviously they don't. So um we'll see if we what we can do about getting some sort of donors in the land records for that. Yeah. I mean I think we'd have to take a special action because of the litigation and the fact that the permit isn't

it's not in compliance with the conditions of our permit and and someone buying that lot should know that. Well again four technically doesn't have wetlands issues as much but it does have subdivision issues. That's a different issue. And yeah, so I mean that's that that is why you can't sell lots right now because they haven't bonded for the road and they haven't given us the open space and those were two requirements of the subdivision approval before they sell lots. So that that is particularly why I was like you can't go forward on this right now. Would the planning commission have to do something or is that

planning commission would have to bring action? Unfortunately, unlike zoning the max fine under planning is $500. So bringing a planning enforcement action is less useful. What you would have to do then is revoke the subdivision. Um which is obviously a much bigger and you know heftier step to do that. Theoretically if they're in violation of the terms of the subdivision, your remedy is revoke the subdivision. Yeah. So it' have to be a series of hearings and you would need to give them notice. There would need to be a hearing. You know, you need to make a decision. They would get to appeal the decision to superior court. It would start up a fairly sizable ball rolling. Haven't gotten there yet, but again, if they start selling lots, we probably need to get there pretty quickly.

Eric, they kind of lucked out with a pretty dry summer. Had a little bit of rain this fall. I know they made some updates and some minimal improvements to some of the siltation issues and stuff. You've been out there recently since the last couple raintorms are is that is that reilting on the on the south side of the road or

I mean the put down the grass cover. They did do, you know, basically the um the barriers that you saw there. Um they were great when they went in. They're not really being maintained. The hay bales are continuing to deteriorate. So far at least, I haven't noticed a lot of new erosion down in the wetlands. Um there is sort of new erosion sort of in the trench that goes down alongside of the road. Um but again, if things aren't maintained, it's just a matter of time, you would think. So we'll have to wait and see how that how that plays out. See that big pile is getting cut away from and it's eroding too.

Yeah. And again theoretically per your violation notice they have to have some sort of erosion controls around that. They need to work on the slope so it's not more than 3 to one. That has not happened. Um also theoretically they're supposed to be giving me notice before they do any work and and they're supposed to be giving me a schedule for erosion control. They're supposed to be giving me a whole bunch of things. I I got nothing from them. I continue to get nothing from them. So, it's not been it's not been a a good a good development. You know, nothing about it has is has been what we'd hoped. Okay. Um not on the as long as we're doing WO updates, two two other matters to talk about. Um 16 meeting house. Um I have been in touch with France Delone who is the attorney for the property owner. I have told him that unless we have an application by our next meeting that there will be a show cause hearing. Um he asked for a link to the wetlands application. So I sent that over to him. So hopefully he will be getting an application on that and I again I put him on notice. Look Fran I hope to have it for this meeting. Um I don't and if I don't have it soon um expect a show cause hearing. So that's coming up in January if we don't have something between now and then. The other thing and this goes to something that Michael had asked for. Um I'm working on my budget for next year. Um, when I have more or less finalized what I think I'm looking for, I will shoot it out to you guys. You can see and if there's things that you think need to be included in the budget, um, by all means, get back to me and we'll try and get it included in the budget. Okay.

When does that have to be submitted, Eric? December 16th, I think. Okay. So, we we can do we can send you comments.

Yeah, I will email you out. I I put together um I don't have it ready for tonight, obviously. Um, it's not a very long budget. Um, and most of it or much of it are things like salary or whatever else that I really had no control over. Um, but we do have an education component. We do have, you know, because again, we did pay for people to go to the training. Um, and we did pay for Julie to get her training. So, um, you know, we we do have money to do these sorts of things. U, but again, if there's other things you guys think we need, we can certainly try and include that in the education component. We do have Yeah, because again, we did pay for people to go to the training. Um, and we did pay for Julie to get her training. So, um, you know, we we do have money to do these sorts of things. Um, but again, if there's other things you guys think we need, we can certainly try and include that in the budget as well. Okay.

One of my pet projects is to digitize our minutes. I understand that. That's why I'm telling you now, and I don't I don't know how, you know, you would estimate that, but the town clerk could probably help because people have probably been in there copying stuff. I mean, maybe we rent a scanner and hire a kid to scan at $12 an hour. I don't know. And they just scan it and it just happens. Well, let me talk to Vicki and she would probably not get Vicky's thoughts on it. Problem is, you have to do it there. Yeah, you can't obviously take the minutes away. They got to be done in the in the in the room. So, I will talk to Vicki about making that happen and see what we can do on that. Okay.

Although, maybe you could make a decent if you got a decent enough copy, you could just bring it to staples. You're talking about digitizing past minutes or going. Yeah, past minutes. Yeah. Not the ones that are I think online. We have 2018, but there's a lot of interesting stuff like when did we do the 50- foot buffer, when did we do the 100 foot buffer? Well, and again, it also makes it easier for someone like me to know if there's been a prior application on a site.

Exactly. I mean, we could put that I would be willing to look through it and create a database on sites that we've been to before, like the what was it? The the pond on Tanah. We've already reviewed and issued permits to dredge it at least twice. And there were conditions on those rules. They're not necessarily permits, but the conditions actually were in the minutes as to what what should have happened. And it's just handy to know that, especially if you already have a soils map. I mean, we we have the file digital stuff on the newer well, even on some of the older stuff, but the minutes would really help. Well, let me see what what that's going to cost. And I, you know, I will let you know what sort of estimates I come up with for that. If it's a reasonable number, I will see what we can do.

You might be able to do it in stages if it's expensive. Okay. Let me let me see what we can do to price that one. Vicki might make some recommendations because I bet we'll come in to copy stuff all the time. I'd love to do it for the planning commission, too, since I'm on the planning commission. Okay. Let let me talk to Vicki about what the possibilities are. Okay. Thanks.

Um it's good to keep that money in for training. I went to the Khakiwick meeting that was quite good. I mean I ar got my not my annual argument in with Janet Brooks but I at least asked her some questions and um one of the things I was a little bit concerned about I heard some discussion maybe you know more. We obviously have to take the D training course, but people were saying don't take it right away till they finish revising it because you're not going to get credit for passing the old test. Did you hear that? I didn't hear that though.

Yeah. So, if we could talk to Christine and we might want to just because you have a year from I guess this the you know 2026 to do it. I would want to do it with the new things, not take it twice in a year. Yeah, I don't know the I would suspect that they're not going to try to penalize anyone who actually wants to take it, but let me see if I can find more information about that.

Um, we we had a pretty remarkable attendance considering we're a relatively small town. We had two conservation commission members, two wetlands commission members, a zoning commission member, myself, so six people out of whoever was there. Um, I will say the parking was not so great, but uh, the food was okay. In the future, I would pick a place that has more than like 50 parking spots for 200 people. But, you know, I think there was a wedding going on at the

Well, and Chile's next door. We just filled the Chile's parking lot. Anyway, we're not here to talk about the the Ghaki meeting other than it was a very productive meeting. Um, and I got to see people who I've known for forever and ever. Um, I was the legislative clerk for Mary Bashinsky in 1991. I clerked for Judge Burgerer 1991. So anyway, it was a good meeting, but we're going to get recommendations on um riverine buffers or water course buffers. I'm less optimistic that we're actually there's a 23 member committee working on this. Um, reports due at the end of December with that.

Um, so I'm not sure what we're going to get on that, Michael, but I I know Mary Mashinsky wants something, but um, we'll see what we get, but it may be that we're going to have to amend our wetlands regulations because that's what they're going to put it to have not just a upland review area, but also a riverine or a a a vegetative buffer included. Well, that reminds me updates to regs. I as I understood what Christine the representative the de rep said they're updating not the model rags they're updating the state inland wetland yeah that's different that when you go for a state permit they're updating the state permit rags which is not us

which is not good if we want to update our regs which haven't been updated in more than no yeah I did put together that memo of what what we think is out of date and we can work on on we just work on it ourselves in the coming year. It doesn't look like we're going to have a model coming out of Deep anytime soon. If Eric, for your budget, um if we anticipate Sharon Road probably getting not probably getting worse before it gets better in 2026, do you incorporate a slightly more for kind of we have legal fees for that? We have a legal budget and every year when I go in front of the board of finance, they're always telling me, "Well, you haven't used your legal budget this year. Should we keep it in for next year?" I'm like, you got to you got to keep it in because there's going to be a year where we really need it.

Y um and so yes, there is a legal request the same amount. Yeah, we're we're definitely going to be requesting a legal budget for next year for wetlands. And I'm perfectly comfortable going in front of the the board of finances saying every year I've been telling you we're going to need it and and this is probably the year we're going to need it. Um, and you know, for whatever reason, this year, the zoning legal budget has been wildly over and we have, you know, for better or worse, I'm able to slide the money around a little bit. So, I'm able to use what you guys haven't used this past year to cover my excess zoning. But the year going forward, I'm probably going to need your budget for for your own purposes.

Well, that brings us to the reading and approval of minutes. That was for our October 28th regular meeting. I I just have one comment or Scott is present and absent. Okay. Well, so he's got to be one or the other. One or the other. I can't I don't remember. He was here. He was here. He was here. He was present. We'll list him as present then. Okay. Physically here mentally. It was somewhere else. There you go. Okay. We We will list Scott as present. Right. Any other any other changes or comments? Yeah. Okay. Can I get a motion? Accept. Second. Seconded by Pete. Okay. All in favor? I I. Any abstensions?

Was there for one extension for Jared? Motion passes to accept regular meeting minutes. That brings us to the end of our agenda. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? So move to. All in favor? I. Okay. 6:33