Harbor Committee - Regular Meeting

Okay, Doug and Jim, right there. Howie, you got it. John, how just going to call the meeting to order? Oh, how? Everybody happy with that? We're We're officially open. Greg Johnston just come in too, Chris. Yeah. And uh first item on the agenda is to approve the minutes of November 112. Like to make a motion to approve the minutes. 112. Seconded. Open for discussion. Any comments? If not, we'll raise our hand. Say I. I.

Opposed. Carried. All right. according to our schedule under new business as RFP. I'm not a big fan of uh acronyms, but what's RFP, John? Good question for Greg. Uh request for a proposal. We're going to turn up the volume so we can hear you, Rick. For proposal. I love that. I'd rather see that in the Senates. Find the volume. Yeah.

So, guys, do we We can't hear you, Greg. We're trying to turn the volume on. Our volume's all the way up. Okay. Our volume's all the way up. Can you hear us? Yeah, I can. Because we can't hear you. There's another remote for the TV. Oh, how can you the black remote? Can you volume up? Sure. There you go. There we go. There we go. Try again, Greg. I don't want to go too much. How about that? It was the volume on our TV, Greg. It wasn't your fault. [laughter]

I'm going to turn the meeting over to you, Greg. How about now? now. Oh boy. Yeah, it was on our end. It was I just took all my gear out. So, there's a bit of an echo back echo echo. Uh, let me try going back. Turn our screen volume down. Let's see. That should matter. That's good.

All right. That's fine. John, turn this volume down. So, I'm right here. A little lower on the screen. I think it's on this one. Yep. Try that, Greg. testing. Yep. Yep. That's okay. That's okay. I can hear it's echo feedback here. You guys must have two microphones on in there. Don't know. There's multiple microphones in this or speakers or speakers. It's fine. It's fine. As long as I sound okay there. Okay.

Keep turning yours down, John. It should help with the echo. Yeah, I think control with this TV one or match at the same level. If you go halfway just like we just did halfway on the other remote for the TV, it might You want it to go up or down? Lower. Then Rick won't be able to hear it. Okay. What's lower than 31? 30. I got to 30. We could think it maybe balance it. Greg, I'm going to turn the meeting over to you and uh we're going to discuss the uh RFP. [clears throat] Okay. Okay.

Yeah, if you're ready, I I'll go in. I'll go in. Go for it, please. So, um um John, I received last Thursday or proposals, you should say. I should say um um for um um consultants responded um with Stan GZA SGHartley Dorski um um I feel they're all complete in the request um I think we could have various questions throughout them um but I'm curious to know if the board has had a chance to look at

look at them uh to date the date we we've had copies available for over a week and I assume that we've all looked at them so you can proceed from there. Um well obviously costs are a factor. Um I think that they're all qualified. Um um I'm not sure if you guys have been ready to grade them or want to have general discussion or how you want to proceed. I have read them all. Um I have marked them up.

I haven't physically graded them because I would like some feedback from the committee on the presentation and then we can decide how to proceed. I'm going to lead off by saying that um and I'm not an engineer, but from what I read in these each one of these companies is qualified [snorts] to oversee the construction of this project. And um I understand that there's one company I think it's Gartley and Dorski who has done work in the area for uh the Northeast Harbor Fleet and is also going to be doing work at Clifton Dock. And one other factor that is influencing my decision is uh they seem to be the lowest proposed cost for engineering. out of [clears throat] the four. Those are my comments.

So I I I broke down each group. I read through it multiple times and I focused two on the the cost of it and of the two higher cost. I and I plus and minus stuff and I can read down through if I want if you want. Uh the only thing I'd want to ask Stantech was they kind of had a so they had a great understanding what we have and need have a you know and they even valued out a 60-in rise and how to taper it down. They also gave an estimated cost of other projects which other people didn't do and they have a great organizational chart. Now, my only thing is they were kind of quoting in there that they would have to come down and do a re-evaluation kind of what we already paid for. And I was interested if they would could come down in their price where we already had that survey done if that data wasn't enough for them. But back to the other two, the Gartwe Dorsick and GZA. So, Garw Dorsich was 257,900. GZA was 298500. So the the the only thing for uh Gartwway Dorski I would ask one thing is too is ask for a safety rating. I didn't see that anywhere in there but I had more pluses than negatives. I don't know if you guys want me to go over any of that.

Any say anything you want to

Okay. So Garway Doors get big plus pre-qualified by main DOT. uh they have weekly meetings where GZA so I'm just comparing the two of the lower priced ones in mainbased uh GZA would said they would have every 3 weeks with consultant and public works director uh Garly Dorsick said they'd have weekly meetings they also said they do time sheets completed daily so everything went in they'd be on top of it so even weekly kind of cost going into it not just could you know mostly be for a monthly, but they're calculating time each day of everyone on job. Uh, and they acknowledge challenges and will meet with town staff. This is what really I was impressed by challenges they understand with the project. They'll meet with town staff, users of the facility and abuing users and that's no one else said that they would do that meaning that this project's going to affect others here in the harbor whether they might be direct users or not. And they're willing to sit take the time to sit down and listen to those. And I thought that was a a really a really positive thing that the other companies didn't mention. They also have Kenneth Cap Canal. He 35 years construction, former MD dot inspector. Now granted, some of the other bigger companies with higher price have more international federal level, but we're not taking federal money at this point. And this is more of a state operation other than under uh is it underseas, John? I mean, we have to do Army Corps and

you have to do all of them. the buck.

And then the subcontractors was kind of minor and they had names for each one and their subcontractors relied on the boring lab, but the boring and their lab was in-house and they had one guy do uh cost estimates and then what's it blah blah blah uh was the hierarchy of information was simple positions were filled. They already had names in their hierarchy and the positions of how it would go down with the names of the people that already be filling the spot on the construction. It was very streamlined. Also, the test scoring done, they had four sites. GCA only had two sites they recommended that they were going to test for. GCA's test sites were off on either side of the pier. Uh Gartley Dorsix was going four right down the length of the pier than off from it. So, I think that's a better image of that. And they're going to fill the holes, test pour the concrete, and go more test. GCAS were not even in the footprint of of the main pier construction area and then so and then the negatives that the GCAS was they weren't kind of virtual not in person meeting for kickoff the test boring like I said the plus was GCA did has a proven safety record that they displayed which was my question for Gartley and Dorsick to see that if they could reference that too and show their safety record and GZO had a lot of ss they're they're they use Haley Ward's one which we've had trouble with in this project and the main street project that was CES they award on all these other subcontractors and their organizational chart kind of splintered out and we didn't know who we're going to get who you know that was kind of going to be down the road where we knew on these other ones who you're going to have who's going to fill the position and not like they sub it out we find out later down the road

so I agree um with Gartly and Dorski that they have done local jobs and I think that's important. The fleet and they're doing Clifton. I know I'm familiar with them working on a couple of private jobs here. Oh. That are you know people who do a lot of research on the quality of who's doing the work.

Um and they swear by them. But I've like I've sort of been involved in the on the edges of work that they were doing. Um I think it's I like that they're from Camden. You know, one of the things I worried about looking at all of them is that some of the other jobs were so much bigger and sometimes I worry about the little guy here getting, you know, the quality of work that that would be required, but they're a lot further. All the other ones were a lot further away. Um, and then GCA, I thought they said they'd have their they'd have their research done by 9:27 and they were the only ones that were that's a whole year earlier than everyone else. So,

thank you. Other comments? I would just echo a few. Um um I thought the guardly door was well prepared. Um I think it was succinct. Um I think they had a good understanding of the local uh functioning of the harbor and smart to reach out. Uh I would I would if we were talking with them I'd like to see a little strengthen or clarification for you guys on how the estimation is going to hurt. I think the the cost control

um as the design progresses needs to be tracked. Um I'm familiar with Ken Canal. I've worked with him before. Very smart guy. They seem to put the project costing in his wheelhouse. Uh we just like to understand when that's going to happen and if it's going to be a detailed estimate or not. Uh when the plans are progressing. uh GZA I felt had several exclusions a little bit removed. I also felt that maybe it's a little bit a little bit larger than necessary for this but certainly strong

um Stantech had in their articles had noted some creative designs of using fiber reinforced rebar to thwart corrosion. Um um those are my sort of general comments on them. I I think um yep. So that was that was my observation and notes. would note that the SGH proposal included on the team Dan Bannon who was the design engineer for your original

uh proposals excuse me or evaluation of the pier Dan Bennett who worked at GI who did your peer evaluation works at SGH but SGH's costs seem to be quite a bit higher definitely qualified. I just found that interesting uh fact, but I I did think Dorski um covered the bases that we needed in a in a reasonable way.

I did like with SGH too. I didn't give them credit for they constantly showed the benefits to the town in the proposal and they also and like you said they also did a great job with stand kind of showing different construction method and things complete and they did show previous work with start and completion dates which I liked that others didn't do um my question is are we authorized to approve a design firm and the town will accept it.

Well, I think in our lineup, we've got an option to interview two of these companies sometime between now and Christmas. We have that set up in our timeline, right, Greg? It is correct. Correct. That's like 10 days. Yeah. It's a special meeting. We have to but it's in the schedule and these companies are aware that I remember we thought about that in advance.

Yeah. So I I would agree with everyone here in terms of most what everyone said and I would pretty much echo most of what you said already but you know it's pretty much the Garly and Dorski local you know has credibility um all those things already um low cost uh and then the JZA I I did notice were they the ones that had like it was shorter by a year than everyone else. There was one that was Yeah. And I was like, how come that's the way? Like, how come they can do it and no one else can or whatever. So, that's just an interesting idea, you know, in that regard. Um, and then the other thing that really I have a question about is, and I thought we talked about this as a committee beforehand, was uh the penalty for for being late for any of this stuff. Oh,

I think we negotiate that with these guys are going to be when we meet with them. That's the some of the things we're going to discuss with them. Okay. So, we're not worried about these guys being delayed. That's what Greg said when we asked the last meeting about that as one of our things for criteras. Okay. Is that correct, Greg? Well, we gave them a schedule as part of the RFQ. The basis of it is in [clears throat] there. Um um I think the discussion of liquidated damages as I understood before is a contractor related item where it's not done and affects the harbor. That's that's a construction contract tool.

Um I have not uh thought of a liquidated damage with the design team, but I do remember that conversation. I think it's something worth discussing. you. Well, I I think we should have an understanding of what we want before we ask them. And then we can ask what we want. We're also, you know, going against time. This this pier isn't going to last uh forever. It's kind of falling apart. So, we don't want to get behind on the design phase for sure because that throws everything off. So, that might be something to really consider. I

I'm going to ask Rodney as a selectman. Uh, are you guys in coordination with us on this program or I haven't heard you didn't even discuss it. That's what I was afraid of. Copy of the stuff to take home to read. Yeah. Yeah. Because uh also I mean even even little things like I was at one of the meetings had nothing to do with this but uh they were going to they were going to try to Yeah. So, I I think I'm going to go back to my original question. Is that if we approve this, will the select men step up to the plate and say go? I will.

Okay. But I I know I I know you can't speak for everybody, but it seems like uh we're the ones that have the, you know, the knowledge about the project and, you know, experience down there where the general board of select men doesn't. And I'm hoping that uh we don't hold it up with uh committees in our own town. I I I can't imagine they would some of the things they approve. If they don't approve some of this, [laughter] holy moly. And this in their packet. We're not borrowing money. We're going to pay for this out of our undesated fund that we've been putting money into for years. That is for stuff like this. Yeah.

So there's no tax dollars involved. There's no bond involved. But I we haven't heard other than the the stuff for the ultrasound and and that didn't come to I I asked about it at the last meeting. I asked Brian I think the select one were notified that this was in process and that was before you became a board member. Right. Right. Yeah. And we've been working towards this for a couple of years now. And yeah, can you email them the packet so they can review it themselves? [snorts] There's there's a link I sent John that has the original RFQ and all the scan scanned responses responses.

So if we were going to interview partly and Dorski, is there a second one? I'm assuming we would interview them, but is there a second one we would want to interview or is it incumbent on us to interview two or do we just go with one? That's a very good question, but I sure I personally think that we could decide on which firm we want to deal with and just interview them. What's your thought on that, Greg?

I don't disagree. I think they they put a lot of work into it. If we can't read through the papers and get close to a decision and spend time asking a few questions with your key candidate, um depending on the quality of the responses, I think they're here enough that answers most of the questions. You might entertain questions of the um um preferred vendor and that can be in a zoom or can be written written. Um um but if the majority is satisfied with the proposal is you could make recommendation

recommendation. I' I'd like to make a motion that we uh accept the proposal from Gotley and Dorski and u carry on from there with them without an interview. Um I think we should ask I think we should all come back with questions to ask them. Well, we Yes. I'm not I didn't mean that we're not going to meet in two weeks uh with them, but [clears throat] I would uh eliminate the other three uh proposals and just go with Garly and Dorski. In favor of that

second move and seconded is any discussion. All in favor raise your hand say I. I oppos. Okay. Thank you very much. I think I think that's the best way to move ahead. I feel very comfortable with their qualifications and expertise. Rick, would you based on that for the next meeting? Would you uh ask want me to reach out to them to see if they're available for the next meeting? Question number one. And then secondly, we had some general questions

that in preparation for the meeting, we wanted them prepared. It'd be good if we gave them those questions in advance so that they're um responsive. It's hard for us as um layman to, you know, get into the engineering aspects, but we are very concerned about the time frame and u I think that's probably the most important factor for the town of Mount Reserve. [snorts] Greg,

can't you draft the questions that you had like project cost and a detailed estimate when will be given or if a detailed estimate or not and then liquidated damages as part of the contract kind of see what where they respond to that can do. So the first question is try to reach out to them to see if they're going to be available for your January 13th meeting December. I thought we thought we were going to do something in the next couple of weeks, Greg. Okay. It's kind of built into the plan. Yep. So, what is the next meeting that you want me to invite them to?

I think you and me need to look at my calendar tomorrow and see what's available for this meeting room and maybe you reach out and see what Gartley and Dorski's availability is over the next two weeks and we pick a date and a time tomorrow. Do we need committee members for this for this? I would say yes. Any committee member that wanted to attend then would it be would it be easier to pencil some days now and try to work work our way backwards way backwards? I can't uh look at the calendar right at the moment to see what's then

two weeks is the 23rd. So that's pretty close to I mean if we could potentially do something next week. Yeah. Next week would be let's put a time frame of 10 days on this. You know, if if this room's available next Tuesday at the same time, that would be from the office down there. I think if we're having a meeting, we got to have availability for public. Absolutely. I think we should do that one down there. Oh, well, I have no Zoom or anything available to do a meeting like this, but we discussed Mike Olsson's thing. Remember? Yeah.

The floats that still aren't correct out there. Um, maybe if you could reach out to them and find out what their availability is next week and we can work around and uh, John, you'll be in touch with us. We're all pretty flexible, I think. So, all of you be on the lookout for an email [cough] tomorrow with a date and a time.

Yeah, sure thing. I would only say that I think that the next Tuesday I know I'll be at the elementary school concert with my kids. I don't know that affects the rest of you, but uh that is next Tuesday. Be a good excuse to skip it. Ouch. I don't dare to do that. [clears throat] Have them respond to your questions in writing. I think Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, one of those three days would probably either one of the three. There's a selection meeting on Monday, so Yep. Yep. Okay. Okay. Okay. I I think that's good. Uh thanks. Thanks, Greg.

Thank you, Greg. And be in touch tomorrow, Greg. I think taking the first step forward. You want me to be there so I can just pass on anything? Um, you're more than welcome to be. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Okay. All right. Email list. I'll email them all the packet tomorrow. Oh, Greg also ask. Oh, shoot. How about the some of them showed more using pressure treated where you saying like stand techch and then reinforced fiber concrete stuff that won't corrode

or Scarlet Dorsick while their projects are more pressuret treated that you know what I mean? not as heavy duty as like you know what I mean all questions but he that's one he pointed out noticed I noticed that like stand a lot of money but they build stuff I mean that's building huge stuff yeah it's but I mean and you know you had a bunch of questions maybe if you email them all your questions this way they'll get in in there like he said that was they'll be able to give you a response if I can read my chicken scratches well if they build it as good as the original one that'll be we won't need to worry about. We won't need to worry about not one of us [laughter]

and uh it's pretty impressive. Yeah. And I it's it was a very different it was a very Yes. But it was also very difficult like say price and that was the bottom that was jammed into number right so that was improving to deliver project on time and budget was kind of cool that was 20% right of rating. Well, I would went with like gave one 10, the lower guy, the lowest guy 10, the next guy got nine. I was just curious if we You're not worried about it. Not Not so much. And that's where I did all the pluses and minuses. Yeah. So, you know what I mean? So,

yes, but you know what I mean? What what you get to cost and back and forth, it's very hard. And they all came committed. They all had like we'll say tens of like a lot of them but then the local knowledge of things you know working state level kind of was a hard giving one or or two. Yeah. Yeah. So I rated Darwley Dorski you know they had the highest rating. Okay. And Stantech was nip and tuck with G gza. So okay I attended I didn't grade them. So yeah, that's why

I attended the meeting with Gartley and Dorski for the uh Clifton Do they invited me and everyone around and I I thought it was very informative and and they were easy to talk to and there actually that's where they found out about this uh project. They had no idea and I said, "Geez, you ought to get a hold of Greg and get one of the packets and put in a bid." So, so are they just replacing Clifton because of the damage or they're raising it? They're going to raise it upwards of seven feet. Seven feet. Seven feet. I had to take someone out the other day. Federal federal grants and stuff are requiring them to go to a certain level to get the money.

Very wise. And that's what I said I liked about was it Stantech was that G they gave us the they gave us I think it was Stantech that gave us the uh 60 in said right out of the gate with the sea everything calculated into it already. That would be I I was thinking we we talked before three to four feet and but there and and obviously sloping down that wouldn't affect you'd have to slope off from it but so that was kind of higher and I think it will be higher than what thought but also determines on where the start point is your your first beam your you know what I mean current deck level

and but they were real that's one thing they were real good about was saying explaining right where they what they saw right where the others like this is kind of roughly what we'll Okay. What does that mean? We have three people up there. We're going to move on to old business. John has two issues. Hey, Chris. Doug Foster. Oh, thank you.

U seafood buyers permit and summer rates. So, John, let's uh start off with seafood buyers. Well, uh, I've reached out to all of the current seafood buyers. They've all committed and, uh, want to do it another year. I don't personally have any, uh, problems with any of the four and just open it for you guys to discuss. I I don't have questions about the four, but you made some or we made some um I don't know some authorizations for people to buy and sell other things other than lobsters or something out of like uh pretty we did. We opened up.

So, how did that go? Can you talk about We have one person that is currently uh doing that. Uh I have had no issues with them. I don't think they're putting a lot of pressure on it at all. Uh but it is happening and it's it's active and I haven't uh spoke with that gentleman yet to see if he wants to go another year, but uh there is a space available over there. I think we decided to do two and there's only one currently being used at the Bartland Bartlett facility. Great. So, you're saying that there's no bias just showing up and hey, I'll buy you lobsters. Not that I'm aware of. Uh,

okay. That's always a concern of mine over there, not being manned. I see a lot of pressure on the town of Mount Desert to provide buying facilities for lobsters. All the other towns have falling downhill and [clears throat] pressurees been on us. So anyway, okay. Would we ever want to put a camera on any of our locations? We do have cameras. I'm in the process of working and everything. I'm on the process of working on getting Seal Harbor came up. Bartletts has cameras.

So it says in December will the harbor committee will meet. So the harbor master shall forward all license renewals to the harbor committee with a recommendation of approval approval conditions or non-approval. The harbor committee will meet in December to make the final uh determination on all renewals based on renewal standards and all renewal license will be issued by December 31st. And the other issue with the seafood buyers is the u the fee. And John, you said it's 5,000. It is. Is everyone satisfied with that? It's either a,000 or 1,500 at Barlu. Okay. I think it's 1500. Are we satisfied with that? 1500 at Bartlets? Yes, I suppose. So,

he's got a comment. You guys take questions or comments?

Absolutely. State your name, please. Uh, hi. My name is Tegan Candage. I'm a Mount Desert Island born and raised. I'm lobster fisherman, but two years ago I became a wholesale lobster buyer myself. I fish out of Bar Harbor the year and then in October I come over here the last three years and I rent a slip. Um, I'm looking to be one of the four permit holders to bring a truck to receive product. Um, and I was just curious last year when in November I voiced interest in a permit for 2025, but we kind of transitioned into rather than first come first serve into a grandfathering system. I was just wondering about um there's an discussion on what is considered an active user and a non-active user. So I didn't know if there was any verbiage that actually got put in to define active versus non-active. And my other question was were any of the four permit holders that currently have it um you know did they fall under not being active because I I would like to be here. Thank you.

Did we put any exact language in? We did. If we wanted to to read that if we were concerned, buyers must demonstrate regular and active use of the permit during the previous year. This include proof of seafood transactions, tax fines, or other business records. What would you consider a non-active buyer? someone that didn't buy. Well, I know there's got to be more than that. Yeah. I mean, didn't have to buy so many times a year. Well, do we have I mean, we also talked about the summer. We can't have like more than what we've got going on down there. No, we It's absolutely, you know, it's only works the way with what it's working now.

There's one I don't know all the buyers. It seems like there's one buyer that only shows up maybe once a month. I think that's already our and they and they don't show up in the summer. They go more it's when the boats come over here. So, are you are we suggesting that we exclude them for a more active buyer? Or are they inactive if only in the summer for like business reasons and it's easier for them?

Not RDR but one of the other buyers. He only has two boats that he receives product from. So, he's very limited to the amount of time that he's here to buy. What do you say, Joe?

Well, I say if if we had four buyers that were extremely active, we would have a problem. Uh, so it's really working great the way it is right now having we have one that is extremely active. And then we have Lobster 207 that basically is operating a smack boat. They're using our dock to unload their smack boat onto their truck and they're gone. They're not sitting there buying from the boats coming in. And then uh usually sometimes they do buy from boats very seldom. Yeah. But

then you got Trenton Bridge which has two or three boats that he comes down and he picks up and he then he's gone. Uh and then RDR is not very active in the summertime, but they have boats that come over and they buy from him in the winter.

They're the only ones buying today. They send a truck down. They do it by phone calls. People call That's how I operate, too. I don't send a truck to hang out. So, there's no been no complaints from any of the four that I've received. Um, they've all been pretty courteous with each other. I think they've done a pretty good job of moving out of the way for the fishermanmen when they'll buy your lobsters and get out of your way and let you back in with your truck and load your traps or your bait. Uh, I haven't had any complaints from any of the four this calendar year. So, I have no concerns over the four currents. And I have reached out to all four and if they're approved, they would like to purchase a license for 2026.

That ain't broke. Don't fiction. [clears throat] And to to to any clarification have to be an ordinance change to go before town any greater any changes would have meaning that you say you can buy have to buy 20 times a year have sales rece that so if they have any records of buying they meet the court criteria you know would we also have to do that if we wanted to take on a fifth or sixth buyer absolutely and and we also have the lottery system too that we established too so I'm hearing a suggestion that Can we make a motion to accept this the buyers as it exists right now under the same terms

per per ordinance we have to wait till the next meeting. Okay. It says that so buyers notify our master intent to renew by November 30th. Our master should forward all license renewals to the harbor committee with recommendation of approval condition meet in December to make the final decision. So we can do it now or just have be issued by the 31st. Well, we have another meeting. But we have another meeting. So a special meeting. Mhm. If you want to do that or you can't. I would rather do it now. We have a special meeting on a special topic. So let's not get too diversified. Stay focused.

Somebody like to make a motion. I'll make a motion to accept the buyers as existing. as existing. Under the same terms and with the same terms as existing. Everyone understand? Seconded. Second. Any questions, discussion? All in favor of the motion as proposed. Same buyers, same terms, raise your hand, say I. I. Oppose. Carry. Do do we want to at some point come up with a definition of what active is or is that too difficult to

that's uh that's up to you guys. We have time before uh you know I just don't meeting if somebody's here. We have time to discuss it uh you know for a couple of meetings and have a warrant article written up for town meeting. We would have to make a decision by our the our February meeting. I just know sometimes it's easier if things are defined. But

there's other things and one of those story brought up about the commercial operators. We keep kicking the can on about either percentage of the water like we did for that being prior prioritizing the local operators and limiting the number of how many permits one company could have, how many whises well a company could have. All valid points, but we keep kicking these cans. At some point, we need to consolidate them and have two or three things if we really want to go to it to finalize because we get too off topic running different ways. It's very hard to get it read, make it an or, you know, warrant article and get the changes. I was a question back here.

Yeah, there was a second permit mentioned for Bartletts for $1,500. Yeah. How would somebody go about inquiring? Uh, call me tomorrow and I'll get you a application. I don't currently have anyone other than the one that is uh doing it. So, there's a there's an available permit over there. It's $1,500 for the 2026 season.

Okay. Uh this is a very important topic because it's it has a huge impact on how we use our main pier and we're we're a very diversified harbor and [clears throat] so far we're keeping almost everybody happy. Uh so it's it's critical that we treat this as a serious matter. Uh the lobster buying thing is kind of a new industry for us. I'd say less than 10 years old like buying on the dock like this and uh as the other towns fail [clears throat] in their buying and docks uh more and more pressure becomes on us.

It [clears throat] used to be a lot of skulls buying and buying but it was a different situation which do you think that we should have a warrant to define what is active or not? Because if if it's a if it's important, we should if we have somebody who's just holding a space and isn't actually buying, I think that that's important. I I think we discussed that, Donna, and we're going to bring it up. Put it on the work. Well, what we first need to do is have whatever we're going to do these couple topics, we have to meet or have subcommittees meet, draft the language, come back to the committee, committee accepts the language, language goes to be reviewed by a lawyer, reviewed.

No, I know the whole process, but I'm saying you were saying like we don't want to keep just kicking the can down the line. Yeah. So, we're going to get the ball rolling. people volunteer to be on a committee to write some to do this on the separate time or we're try to find time to do it outside of I mean we're we're busy with what we got going on now so ideally it'd be like the parking thing but which took a lot of time and you know what I mean it's a yeah so far the system hasn't really been abused although it's uh the use of the peers been impactive I see a big change.

And John, if you could look at our schedule and see where maybe we could stick stick in, you know what I mean, on the agenda, ordinance changes. I would say if anybody has any ordinance type stuff that they want to bring up that we would bring it up at our January meeting, that would give us a month to try and draft some rough language for an approval in February. and then uh I can get Patrick to put a an attorney shine on it. And I think it would be important to ask how many times each buyer has bought throughout the year.

Yep. I'll see if I can get that information for our January meeting because I'm assuming that's one of the topics you want to tackle ordinance-wise. Yeah. So should we should we do you want to so I have ordinance here to discuss J do you want so do you want to label what we want to discuss right now? Yeah definitely. Okay. So seafood buyer activity or frequency frequency impact time time frames frequency how many transactions. Yeah. Okay. And then the the commercial uh operator's lease license.

Did we ever consider using the seal hover facility for a buyer? For a buyer, it's real hard. The hoist I don't know. Is the hoist even working yet? Oh yeah, the hoist working. But is everything's tied? It's not set. I mean that's something and we're going to have to that's something we'll have to discuss with this pier being shut down. We're maybe we have to put a better setups crib. You know what I mean? Anybody can these guys could go to Seal Harbor and buy if they wanted to. So you're saying only high tide basically. No, on that on the south birth you've got pro. Well, it depends on the boat. Yeah.

You know, like my boat I can go from say two/irds tide, you know, low tide up through until 2/3 down again. And then um I mean to the low and on the north birth, you might have an hour on each [snorts] side of the high water. But if someone was willing to work within those parameters, [clears throat] it's it's a it's feasible, allowable rather. Sure. I think it would take pressure off the northeast of Dock. Think if a buyer's willing to to go with the tides, why would we say no? You've already got a problem here in the summer though. The uh

Yeah, but the problem isn't the residents of the town. It's some of the outer islands. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's right. A lot of primary island probably the uh but I mean as far as there's a lot of times I walk down and and the the dock is a bunch of stuff ready to go down the dock. You know, they'll unload a car. Oh, I know. Well, anyway,

so I have this for ordinance change to discuss in January. Seafood buyer frequency transaction, commercial operator lease, number of licenses per person/ business and providing for local businesses or prioritizing for local businesses. Yeah. Put put Bartletts Island and Seal Haba down as discussion points too. Well, we with our buyers one of the four I understand but but that's not on ordinance change is it? I guess I have one more. You want to issue a separate permit for Sue for John for sealed out of I think it should be made aware. There's no number one that has a permit for here could go over there more efficiently than they

but they would need a permit like these guys don't want to permit. There's only four permits. The Bartlett says Bartletts only. Okay. So the harvest that's fine but I I see too much pressure going down here. Yeah. So that can I do that's a separate line from ordinance change discussion. Yeah. Okay. So just next meeting if we were going to have permits that were specific to Seal Harbor, we would have to make an ordinance change to do that because right now it's only the four that could go there. Correct. Absolutely.

So discuss feasibility of harbor. Yeah. But there's two allowed if I understand correctly. There's two allowed at Bartlett and maybe one open one open one now and then maybe tomorrow close if you're going to make the application you should have the barlets one's not good for the not right now only is that something you guys see transaction volume so also this hasn't been a problem for us so I think we're not trying to do anything over there interesting thought actually what to maybe we could discuss it. Let's Could you put a little bit of a finer point on that? One of the questions I'm sorry I forgot your name.

Tegan Candage. Tegan said um was asking if Bartletts could be reciprocal if you will with Seal Harbor as opposed like right now we have Northeast is reciprocal with Seal Harbor. Seal Harbor. Northeast could go anywhere. Could go anywhere. So what we're saying is maybe have that as part of the discussion that maybe have a reciprocal. So I next meeting discuss feasibility of buyers license in Seal Harbor and or Bartletts. Yeah. Or Y but not northeast. But not northeast. Yeah. No, just those two. Is that what we're basically going to specify? Yeah, that's that's that's a good idea. A good way to approach it.

Well, we already have the limit to borrow. So is two, correct? So and maybe they'll be filled by tomorrow. So if that's filled, you're not gonna give one to Seal Harbor and then No, no, I'm not. But if Seal Harbor opens up, the people could [snorts] from Bartwoods could apply to go to Seal Harbor as well. Exactly. One or the other, right? No, both. We're talking Seal Harbor and Bartletts being the separate, which is kind of nice if you only have a 2-hour window to go there. So, and we can up our fees. [laughter] Oh gosh. Well, there's always that. So, on the buyer questions, another one. Do we need to know if they're working? They're focusing more seasonally. Well, they all do. I mean,

no, but I mean some more in the summer than in the winter or in the winter. More in the in the winter. The winter always slows down. The fall gets busier. You have more of the boats come over and so you have more buyers and you know the volume and but the summer we a lot of these boats leave now go somewhere else. We we're we're jammed up. That's it. You have to balance the I mean cargo which is a whole another discussion but are all [snorts] four doing the same thing give to us when all four are very different in their operations as far as seasonally as in whole operations when we get their

So we have one buyer that parks down there first boat in say 9 in the morning till 10 at night they come out they put their crates out come in and off the dock as they buy open it up and people need to use a hoist Other people come and pick up certain boats, leave. One boat comes and just buys on a smack boat. So they wait so they're a longer period of the time, but they do bulk of their lobsters once or twice a day. They pull in for a longer period, load everything and leave. RDR when they come, they wait in the parking lot and wait for their boats to come in, grab their boats, pull off, and they're in their spring and fall winter where the other three are year round. But two are just on kind of a schedule on when the lobsters are there. But in the summer when an extra waiting truck, your delivery trucks, your tractor trailers, your truck, all the parking spots are full. You can't have four trucks just hanging around idling in the parking lot either.

And it's hot. They got lobsters on. They got to run the reefers. You know, it's so ideally now we have it. They come and go and like he was saying too, he's not interested in hanging out. No, it's just wasting money hanging out. I always got a question. Yeah. On your agenda items for next for January for the uh ordinance changes, it sounded like you were proposing that we uh add in that uh accommodation for residents [snorts] for the commercial operators. Is that right? Correct.

Does that include commercial buyers? We already we already have that in for the buyers. We put that in. What we'll do is copy that that you and I did. Copy that. The the state law 75 25% or is it 80? It's actually 8020. I think you found out. I think it's 8020. Same with the warning ratio. We can say prioritize this amount of that. You got to allow so many people. So that those we're in. Yeah. eventually we we do you understand what happened? So last year we put in an ordinance that said the next resert so it wouldn't help. People who are who live in Mount Desert have a higher priority than that lottery.

Neither is No, no, no. I'm just saying that but if but if so if say there's four buyers if three are only operated by there has to be one out. So three are out of mountain reserve one has to be mountain. Yeah, that's why I say so someone else from Mountain Zero applies the person off the mountain part. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. I just don't think users is actually active. Yep. No. And that we're going to discuss that for for we'll figure that out for next year.

Okay, folks. I'm going to move on to one more topic and that's our summer rates. And I'm assuming we're applying this to uh transients. Yes. Okay.

So, every year in the fall, early winter, we talk about next summer's rates. We did a 10 cent increase last summer. Uh generally we've been going multiple years between increases but uh looking at what uh Great Harbor Marina has done they have done quite an increase. So I think it would be uh prudent of us to do a a slight increase oursel. Absolutely. Agreed. What is Can we match them? No. Why? Why? lighter [laughter] than nothing. They're private. It would be a massive increase.

We're a private enterprise. [snorts] [clears throat] We're we're doing good. But if you have a waiting list, you have people dying to get in here. You have people pay for this list. Why not maximize differential res? More more to the point is is we got to build a big pair of right. So why do why are we the low budget? You give these guys probably the same people come in get to steal on their boats and pay to be there. So what's the difference? What's the difference? Why are we subsidizing these huge yachts? Donna's got a good question.

So, I'll answer it for you. So, for vessels under 50 ft, we're at $345 a foot. Uh, Great Harbors at 420. Uh, 50 to 64t, they're at 450, we're at 395. 65 to 100 ft, they're at 510, we're at 445. 100 feet and up. We're 515. They're 610. I make a motion to match Great Harbor Marina's prices for summer rates. I'll second it. Yeah, I would strongly Are we going to lose? Say no to that. I I

I would my recommendation would be a 10-cent increase across the board for slip. So, there's here guys You guys got to let me finish telling you all about this before you Okay.

So, We don't have a seasonal price. Great Harbor Marina does. If you take a 100 foot boat and times it times $2 $257 a foot, that allows you to be at Great Harbor Marina for a little over $25,000 for the season. If you stayed for 90 to 100 days here with a 100 foot boat, you would be up in the the $40,000 range. So the Great Harbor Marina does have What was the dates again for 90 days?

May 1 to October 31st for a per foot number. No, my was just to match the per foot rates. How I hear what you have to say. We have generally gone up a a very s a very marginal amount over the number of years. Yeah.

And and other businesses will increase as as like their business needs more money because costs go up in the world. And so they're going to go up more than this marginal thing. So we're never gonna like we're I feel that we're losing ground. I'm not saying that we have to make it all up, John, but I feel like we're losing ground a little bit here. And what I'm going to suggest is is that we take like if we're at, let's just say we're at $5 and they're at $7, we split the difference and we say we'll go to $6 this year. and and that way we're still below them, but the marginal gains that you're you're making I I feel aren't enough to accommodate like the cost of everything going up in the world.

You got also remember we're a municipality. This is a municipal run marina that is not we're not supposed to be making huge amounts of money like a private enterprise can do. If this was private down here, I bet you could double these prices. I I have a thing written in in our enterprise agreement that says we have to the rates have to be subsidized. I totally appreciate that we're not supposed to make money and and I'm not asking that we do that. Sure we asking that we sort of kind of go more in in line with what everyone else is doing rather than these really marginal

and we're borderline watercent 10cent increase across the board nets quite a nice sum every year. We don't offer a seasonal. We do not because I I would say, you know, probably 75% of the boats in Dice Arts are seasonal. I always was because it's a bargain. Yeah. And you know, it truly is a bargain. Course Dice Arts fills up, too. So, they want to come here anyway. So, we have a motion on the floor that's been seconded. Do we want to I can modify it or with modify it or withdraw it or vote on it? Modify it, Chris. to uh half half half of it half the increase half the difference the difference

increase to half of what per foot yes not true I would I would go along with that I second that I guess I'd like to hear from John since he's the one there and if he I mean I I understand I think that's a hefty increase but it is look how great our pier's going to be when we finish building the main well this four years design fee is just a drop in the bucket of what we're going to be spending so start now collecting more we'll be better off to fake this project we get the sticker shop which is going to happen it's the truth I like is

we're 55 to 65 cents below them on most things right until you get up to the big ones 25 cents instead of 10 I I can see John's point that you know quite often we're not you know were the same price because most of the people at Dice Arts they pay for the whole season and that's not the rates you know that you know you're saying there you know cuz you know they end up paying a lot more here cuz like you said if somebody stays the whole season they're paying a daily rate every day then why haven't these boats left here and gone over there there's no room why do we give a cheaper rate Ellen how big is your boat

30 ft I was paying $5500 $ over there stay I when I was over there I was there for six months. Okay. How many years ago was this? I was there for three or four years ago though. I mean when this recently when pardon when when was the last time you were there? It was uh this last season I was in S Harbor. Guys will see but all all the years before that I've been at Daart and they went up this year. How many days did you stay at Daart? 6 months. 180 days. I I was there because I was also in the winter storage in the old Morris building. And so it didn't matter how long I was at the marina because I was

$5,500. It was five it was our current numbers. If you stayed from May 1 to or May 15 to 10 one year, it would cost you $18,630 plus electricity. That's that's the point I was making. And it's, you know, our rates are up because we don't offer a a seasonal rate. Yes. Which, you know, I don't know if we would want to add a seasonal rate, but we don't then end the discussion. We don't we don't need people to get in. We don't have trouble selling our dogs. It's buying them. I think it's good for us to raise our prices, but you know, it's

we're not it's not apples don't it's it's not the same. Is there a reason why they increased so much? Like they have a project or they they hadn't increased for three or four years. I've been waiting for them to wondering when they were going to increase. So they finally have 25 cent across the board. That's roughly what we're asking for. Half of the difference. You say 25. But I still that is a significant. I agree. It is a significant. Those are cost. Those are expenses. May just add one other thing. In the past, in the past, we haven't increased on an annual basis. We've let a lot of years slide by and then we make an increase.

So, going forward in the times we live in, we should be more focused each year and making an adjustment to the point that we've been we're following behind instead of catching up. We haven't been keeping pace. So, I think this would jump us up and I'm not saying we have to do it again next year. No, generally, we've been doing it about every two years. And we did one last year and I with this increase I felt that we needed to do another one. So I heard that we were increasing 25 cents a foot. The motion was you first said well I changed mind to increase half of the difference of the dice arts but it would be easier if we went 25 cents for John.

I make a motion that we go 25 cents a foot across all dimensions. All right. I'm withdrawing my motion. Say we can do some Chris's motion. Is that seconded? I'll second that. [laughter] There you go. Okay, we've had good discussion. I'm gonna ask for a motion to approve. Raise your hand. Say I. I. Oppos. Okay. Thanks for your input, John. I would like to uh now talk about power. Yep.

Uh we currently charge $20 a day for 30 amp. They charge 28. We charge 31 for 50. They charge 38. We charge 60 for 100 amp and they're charging 82. We don't do any of our meters after we bought meters and did all that. We don't do meters during the summer. It is daily. And do you have we calculated from our meters what our usage are on some of those boats? We're making money. Yeah. John said I don't I don't I just we we had to add meters. We didn't have meters on this. We played this game years ago. We went through this said that we always come out ahead on

there's very few pedestals [clears throat] that are left that actually have meters on them because we don't use them. It's they're expensive to add that to the meter. And now the electrical is going to have to be addressed. And I believe that when we do the main pier, something we haven't thought about in budgeting is that we'll need new wiring out through probably new pedestals on the dogs. We replace a couple of pedestals every year. They each have their own CIP line. The power cables that go from the dock out to them all have CIP lines. They're all have schedules of being replaced. Those lines will have to be changed out and the temporary rain. Those lines, they should be able to connect into them.

They're going to have to move them. Mike said you have to lengthen them to get, but that's going to be part of this project cost. This is all these cables have their timeline and lifespan and they are replaced as needed um when their lifespan comes up. So each one has their own CIP line and this we put money away every year. So when this cable is ready, we have the money, we write the check, it's done. So I'm going to make a motion that we in we do not increase the electrical rate at this time. Well, did it did you have an increase for the

thinking that we needed to go up$2 to5 a day on each one of those? Think we should do whatever. So, they were averaging $8 on each division. They are $8 more on 30 amp. They're $7 more on 50. And they are $22 more on 100 amp. should definitely go up. Motion, I know the price of electricity is not going down. $5 per category. What would you suggest? I was thinking $2 to5. So, let's go with five. Motion to raise $2 to $5. Two or five. Five. Five. Five.

All right. Who's making the motion? I'll make the motion. Five. Motion to raise to $5 and seconded. Any other discussion? Raise your hand and approve. I oppose carried. Second am I terminally correct? Very good. You second it. Yes. Yeah. Okay. All right. I'll get a memo together for the selectman to approve and go from there. You got some inside info on it already. Rodney, I was really excited. We're going to make some money quick. We're We're doing very well. We're going to spend a full I think we I think we made a lot of progress.

We've been putting $2 to $300,000 a year into our undesated. We're about to spend correct. There's a limit to we can spend that because we have money tied up till we get out of this project and then they have to we'll have to leave so much in account and we'll still be bonding to be in the summer. Hopefully not. But I bet you want a motion? I do. Like a make a motion to adjurnn. Second. Seconded. Second. All in favor raise your hand. I oppose. Carry. Thank you very much. It didn't raise his hand. This pile here is Dorski. Anybody that wants a coffee, this would be the one you should take. Thank you. There is two more.

One more coffee. Thank you, Josh. And you all have it in digital version. Yeah. like a picture. I was going to print it out. I was going to print them all out and I thought they were like stop. Thank you everybody. I'm sure that