Town Council - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon. The time is 2:30 p.m. on Tuesday, February 24th. This is the audio test of the capital improvements program workshop discussion for the town of Hilton Head Island. This is the podium microphone. microphone 11. Microphone 11. This is microphone 10. Microphone 9. This is microphone 8. This is microphone 9. This is microphone 8. Microphone 7. Microphone 7. Six. Microphone 6. Back on seven. Microphone 7.

This is microphone five. Microphone four. Microphone four. This is microphone three. This is microphone two. Microphone one. That completes our audio test. Thank you everybody. Yeah,

Good afternoon. And I'd like to call this town workshop uh meeting of Tuesday, February 24th to order. Um we will go through the adoption of the agenda, the workshop discussion and then after the workshop discussion, there will be public comment on agenda on the agenda and then non-aggenda items. So do I have a motion to accept the adopt the agenda? Second. All those in favor signify by raising your right hand. Great. So hopefully today we will come away from this having a better understanding as to the projects that we are looking to prioritize over the coming years. Um, we've got a big presentation in front of us and uh, it'll be a good time for our discussion. So, Mr. Orlando, I will turn it over to you.

Yes, sir. Good afternoon. I talk slowly and look for my notes. Here they are. Uh, a couple things. One, we're excited to be here. It's a little bit different than last year. the the placement of this workshop as we start talking about the FY27 consolidated budget. I'd say it's an added step. It's not it's not a step moved. It's an extra step as we prepare the budget. Um we're still pretty far out on our budget preparation, right? We remember that we deliver first reading in early May, second reading in early June, couple workshops, both public hearings. So when I add it all up, I looked this morning, it's approximately, we're still 70 days away from balancing a budget and putting it in the packet for that May meeting. And so today, I would encourage us us and Sean and I know this. Today's as much about us having a conversation with you and getting your early feedback um your early feedback on the CIP budget um project list. And what I what I like and what we like as a team is that this is prior to the planning commission prioritization. And so we're hearing from you. They're hearing from us, hearing from you as the planning commission is prioritizing. And I think that's a big added step and a good out good value ad this year. Just for y'all and I and the public as well. This is not a an approval meeting. This is a conversation. Um it's a high level policy discussion to make sure we're aligned before we prioritize that planning commission. the way Sean and I have been talking about this with his great team and and as they jump in I'd like to make sure you you all know Don um he's at the table with us but I'll ask him in a second to introduce himself but deliverability

we've been talking and working as we're balancing our budget um is what we're asking you to prioritize what you're asking us to prioritize can we deliver it can we deliver it within a fiscal year or two and by that I mean funding as well as our capacity contract contractor capacity, so on so forth. Community impact. Are the projects that you will see in a little bit on the list impactful? Are they the right projects at the right time? And are they prioritized by you? We know things change ever every so often. Are they the right priorities? And then just as important, and I appreciate that we're far enough along this year to have what I would call a a valuable conversation with you because we're further along in our budget preparation this year than I would say we've ever been. And I'm not allowed to look over at Mr. Bird because he doesn't like compliments, but I will let you know at least what I feel. He's doing a great job helping us with a budget. and I'm much more prepared early in the cycle of budget preparation to have this conversation with you. So, thank you, sir. Um, and so from a financial strategy, are we using the right tools? We know and we've in the past have used some debt well before my time. Um, but we've been in a pay as you go. We've also started to talk about tiff. We've used grants. We've used earmarks. And I just want to make sure that we're having that conversation so that we know what we're doing today confidently, but also to get your input on some future work, including a TIFF district assessment. And so I think that it'll all make sense when we get to the to the bottom of of the deck that's up here. Um, couple notes I always remind myself, we must balance ambition with discipline. I'll admit my team, I always say it's like they went to the grocery store

hungry and came home with a whole bunch and I'm right there with them. But sometimes we're too ambitious when we really measure how many staff members, what the real life cycle of a project is, considering state permitting, contractor availability. Um but but while we're looking that we always know that infrastructure demands grow expect safe roads, great quality places, um improved services and and definitely well-maintained uh facility. So as we get into that today, definitely Sean and I will be having a conversation with with you with Don and and with with Dave Bird, our finance director. So, Don, since you're new at the table at the workshop, do you want to introduce yourself a little bit and let everyone know what your what your role is and

how you found us? Hit your mic, too.

Uh, good afternoon. Uh, my name is Dondam. I am a proud resident of Hilton Head Island. Uh, I've been in the, uh, civil engineering private side business, consultancy business for, uh, over 30 years. Um to tell a quick story about a year plus ago um I was able to run into a guy named Sean Colin at that time and get to know Mark and some other folks with um the town. Uh I continued to work for another year and then revisited that opportunity uh here late last year and started in November. So what is that about three months now on board? Um my honeymoon is over. Uh I'm deep into the details now and very uh happy to be working with um a really great team and catching up on all the priorities that were established coming into it. So I'm trying to do our level best as a team to uh to align today's discussion to what you also approved a year ago.

Thank you. And and Don oversees our capital improvement program and and and reports and works directly with Sean Gillan. So um with that being said uh just to really to reiterate today's goal establish a baseline for the capital improvement program really mostly for the particularly for the fiscal year 27. And so we'll take a look at year-end fiscal year 26 projections that always helps us understand what projects and what funds will roll forward for fiscal year and through into fiscal year 27. say that number 27. Um, we're going to look at a preliminary FY27 project list. You've seen it. You've seen it last year in the five-year CIP. It looks a little different. There's been some extra ads from from y'all. You've asked me to put some some projects on that list. And I know that we need to talk about some potential funding tools to consider, as I say, for today and tomorrow. And and Tiff's a big part of that. Uh we'd like to take the opportunity as we look at those CIP projects with you to talk about the project list as we know we need to at least address for the Buer County transportation sale. Did I say that right? Transportation sales tax referendum. I'll talk to you a little bit about that as we as we get into this. Um and so yeah, we'll look at 26. We'll look at roll forward for 26. that starts helping us build roll forward plus new for 27 and then talk about can we afford it and if we can how are we going to how we going to fund it. I won't read all of this but I always think it's important as we talk about capital projects that we remind oursel what a capital improvement program is and it's one of six funds in the budget.

As we adopt a consolidated budget, we look at it by budget um by fund I should say as a consolidated budget. And I will draw your attention to this middle paragraph where it says that this capital expenditure is dispersement of appropriated funds to pay for land, buildings, machinery, and equipment with an original cost of $5,000 or more and software licenses and other tangibles of a consumable nature, excuse me, value at 50,000 or more and on and on, but has a useful life at least two years following the date of acquisition and infrastructure. with a value of 100k or more. So that's why these program these projects are in this program and not in an operating in a maintenance budget. Um they include major lifts for maintenance as much as it would be a new project. So um I I won't get into all this with you but I think it is important that we say a CIP as a guiding document for major capital expenditures asset management which a lot of it is our land and our buildings and funding strategies over a multi-year right and it's also ann that we work annually to update and respond to shifting priorities which which we're going to do this year. We're going to talk about some some shifting emerging priorities and funding changes for those new needs. This is more for I just think knowledge in the in the presentation, but we look at budgeting, accounting, strategic planning, and transparency in the in the capital program. We have a good five-year look from last year. uh the fiscal year 26 approved is 77.6 million as as we remember most of that

was in the beach program at 48.8 the beach reourishment was I believe 47.5 million of that 48 so a major lift but you'll also see 10 in 10 in parks five in roads 1.6 six and pathways and and this year more than ever a a more robust storm water program at $6.3 million. We just looked at this and I explained the different colors of stars at our strategic planning workshop. So, I'm not going so to avoid you all throwing something at me. Um I'm not going through this today. We have a lot more to do. But I think it's really important to remind ourselves and the public and even for the new folks that are with us today that last year was the very first year that we've come forward with a real five-year priority. And we've realized that we don't have estimates. Sean Gillan says it best. We can give you estimates. They're going to be wrong because they change so much. market changes and we can scope a project but we don't know fully all the engineering all the civil all the impacts whether it's 12 feet or 10 ft wide as an example. So but what's really helpful as we start moving in this direction is that we've started to prioritize and then we realize should we can we build it and if we can great and if we can't we will push it out. that is just the natural transition and and and transaction of a CIP program. And so I think this is just a good reminder for us that our program is in several buckets. Beach pathway, roadway.

We have a lot of road projects, a lot of prioritized road projects, but not very many funded road projects. parks, facility, and equipment, storm water. Very proud of our storm water program and our storm water team and the work they're doing this year fleet and the land acquisition program. And a reminder, we haven't in the past funded land acquisition ahead of time. We've simply left soft costs in there and determined the funding as opportunity or need presented itself. We're proud that these projects are throughout the island and they're in different uh phases. Planning um the design which is really civil and construction.

Uh we have many green. Put your light on. 15 in under construction, 19 in design, and eight in planning. 15. So we rehearsed

15 projects 15 projects under construction um at this time. So as we started to look at um as we started to look at uh projects in fiscal year 26 we we've projected just based upon contract and based upon schedule we've projected to roll forward of the 77 um 8 million to roll forward 12.7 and that's based upon the schedule we've taken a look at just to help you understand anything over 250 K we've we've put in this column right here. So, what will roll forward is Harbortown dredge, Jonesville Road Pathway, the signal maintenance. We're maintaining those signals, but we will still have some dollars left over that we will move forward. Does that say six? Whatever that says. Six or eight. Yeah, six. North Point um 2.8 8 and that is up here and that's coming forward as a budget amendment but we know it's in here. Um segment 8 C pines to Wexford as a as a

pathway doine circle excuse me circle the circle primarily. Yes sir. Patterson Park, Taylor Family Park, Fire Rescue Headquarters, um, and some storm water work for those for those notable for those notable rollovers. While I'm not proposing Oh, hi. Hi. Good afternoon.

Hello. I had a question regarding the rollover and the Harbortown dredge and the reason is it's been rolling over for a long time and um I realize that there's a lawsuit associated with it. You never know when the lawsuit is going to settle. Um let's say the lawsuit does settle. Is it something that we have to do right away? Um, so I'm I bring this up as a question to say, is that a potential item that we could not roll roll over um for this budget?

I I believe so. I'd have to remind myself to see if there's any contract or any any agreement we sign, but I I believe that as a town council, um, you you have every right and and responsibility to to make that decision as you go with a thought that when it does settle and if we are able to do this that we would then plan that, you know, in the next year or at as an addendum, but I just don't know why we're continuing to roll over 600,000 year after year. Do we do we need to um have Curtis chime in on that at all? Curtis, if you wouldn't mind.

Um there is an agreement regarding the payment of the $600,000. The the the town actually doesn't do this work. town's contributing the funding to the South Island Bridge Association that that actually is planning, supervising, doing the work. The case was um tried in circuit court. Uh the town's position prevailed. It was appealed, the appeal was argued in early October. Still don't have a decision out of the court of appeals. I, you know, could be tomorrow. I mean, it's Wednesday. That's when they release their opinions, but we'll see. Um, so the the the the funding through the agreement I I think is pledged. So I think that's why it's remained there just pending the the resolution of the litigation that's tied it up.

Thank you. Um, can you help me remember is the entire cost for that project um on the town for 600,000 or are there additional entities? No, that's a that's a small part of the entire cost of it. And so there are additional entities who are involved in this process as well. Okay. Thank you. I I believe Mr. Cold Trainer is something that has been done in the past one at least once if not a number of times. once to my knowledge.

Different topic. Different topic. The North Point USPS access improvements. I I recall that. Uh can you remind me of the source of funds since we're going to be looking at sources of funds as we look at uh 27. Dave, if you'll turn on your microphone, please. Thank you. The north point is coming through from the uh hospitality fund. I'll double check that for you, but I believe so. Thank you. Other questions while we're here? All right, Mark.

Not at this time, sir. All right. So, a couple funding sources and I'll just kind of go forward and then and then roll back. And I'm going to lean on Dave Bird right now to walk through these next few funding source slides that that simply remind us of a few things. Right. When we started saying this, we we've started off by saying we have an R in a pay as you go. And that means new sort new new new revenue for the year as well as fund balance. And so what I really think we need to do is we start talking not just about project but is about available funds and and your perspective and your and your direction your collective direction on on these funds. So David turn it over to you at this point sir. Thank you Mark. Okay, so the first slide here is just overview of what we reviewed in December for the uh 2026 GEO bond. And as as we discussed, it's it's up to 35 million. Um, and the first phase of this is the fire rescue headquarters that's been committed to $9 million. Uh, 1.75 million for Nine Park Lane, 5.95 million for 10 Park Lane. Um and then the 1.3 million for move site improvements and building modifications. And so as we discussed, some of that is going to be happening in 26 um roughly half of that. The other half will be a part of the 27 budget. Um that leaves 26 million. And so when you look at the provisions of the bond itself, there's another 10.25 25 million that would be occurring within fiscal year 2027 for the town. We could spend all 26 if we wanted to, but we would need to consider

10.75 million or 10.25 million and then the residual 15.75 would be for fiscal year 2028. If you wanted to look at how that remaining 26 million would be split over the next two years from the bond provisions perspective. Yes. Um, so this geo bond uh is for uh purchasing of land as well as capital projects and one of the things that we had talked about as a town council was to um make sure that we had money for purchasing of green space. We have two projects that are currently being reviewed by Buer County. They came up in front of the natural resource committee uh the last meeting where they are looking at those two submissions um and we asked for 50% funding if and they are entertaining moving forward with that. They have not given approval but they're entertaining moving it through the process. If we added those two components together that would probably be close to the $10 million. So, I say that just to say I think we already have that $10 million spent through those two uh pieces of uh land that we uh have in process. Let me let me just add on to that. I think there's also opportunity with our real estate transfer fee fund balance um to sort of cobble funds if we were looking to make that match. Um I think there a lot of levers that we can pull when it comes to us purchasing land and absolutely we made a commitment that we're going to use a portion of the borrow to do so. Um, so I guess where I'm going is I'm I'm sort of teeing up the f the the the discussion that we're going to have later down the road as far

as how we find a way to pay for the projects that have been dealt to us as priorities.

Thank you, mayor. Um, I also want to remind us all that our number one strategic plan is to manage growth and there's no better way than managing growth via buying land and density. And when the discussion was being had with regard to the up to $35 million that that was the um primary argument and it was explicitly written into the um documents that we would be using it to for land acquisition. And so, um, while I hear opportunities for coppbling, um, the purpose and intent of these dollars were to buy land to manage growth so that we could satisfy our number one priority in the strategic plan and I intend on staying in that position.

I have to weigh in as well. The documents actually say um, uh, include capital improvement. So, it could be used both ways. I respect my colleagues positions on this. Um I think it's a little premature to decide exactly what to do with the 26 million at this point. I think we need to look at the proposals in front of us and to weigh it all together because we do have other sources of funding as Mr. Brown mentioned the transfer fees which we've used quite extensively and thank goodness we still have a lot of that available to purchase property. So we do have that other big bucket for that purpose as well. Um so I I think at this point we ought to wait and take a look at our list before we make any firm decisions one way or the other.

Yeah. Well, keep in mind we're not making any firm decisions today on that, but but I think it's important for us to understand those different resourcing tools that we have within the toolbox and how each one can be utilized differently without disturbing the purpose of some of the funds as to the as to how they were required. So, there's a lot of different elements that um have been discussed over the past several weeks, and I think that we can get into a little bit more depth on that as we go into it a little bit further um with Dave's help. Next slide. Okay, so this is just a quick overview of highlevel funding sources. And I use the word restrictions, but they're really I'll call them policy reserves, right? I like the word restrictions, but um sorry, but so you you've you would see a higher number in the past, maybe in our finance reporting packet of around $250 million. Um uh so in 2025, we ended up around 161 million of a fund balance at the end of June of 25 um after restrictions. And then we're projecting right now based upon we're early in our budgeting phase pro process, but we're projecting right now about 155 million of a ending fund balance for the town. There's about 96 million, I would say, of of fund balance reserves that are on top of that number. So, we're around 251 give or take as a total fund balance position for the town. But really, I'm kind of looking above that restriction line, if you will, for available funds. Um and so if you look at 2027 as an initial rollup, we are in level one budget reviews right now, very early in that stage. Uh but as

an initial roll up prior to any capital expenditure, we are projecting uh at the end of 27 to be roughly $184 million of fund balance. That's kind of how I look at that. And we kind of put into the buckets of where does that money sit prior to any CIP being spent be it storm water or beach preservation a lot in beach preservation 29 million that's above and beyond the 20 million that we have as a reserve for beach uh our real estate transfer that was mentioned we're at around 24 million there our geo bond 26 million um I'll go to other in next which is really gulla gichi housing debt service and disaster we really aren't touching those so I just kind of summarized all of those fund balances for now of about 11.4 4 million which leaves 89 million for the rest and I call that discretionary from where I came from in my past but that's really money that um it's sitting in the general fund or the capital fund hospitality those types of fund balances that really make up that 89 million. So kind of gives you an overview of how we're looking today before we um have any decisions that are made on any capital spend going forward from a fund balance management perspective. And I will say that the we did increase for the land sale and that restriction we did put four more million in. It's going to be proposed at budget but I put that four million as a restriction for right now for economic development. So that's that's not in any available fund balance number.

Okay. Um do you want to go through this? You want me to?

I'll jump in. Thank you very much. Uh mayor and councel. So what this slide shows us the uh what you all approved at the original in the original budget and then what the projected rollover is going to be. We're still at that 127 number. And then the um thank you. This number right here, the 49 million what we call new projects or and that's really what we're going to focus on today. The the rollover number is stuff that's already baked and it's really it's coming into uh it's in some of it's in construction and we're just finishing things up. So there's not a lot of room for movement there. It's this new spend that that happens with this $49 million numbers. And uh down below, one of the things that we did was we we took a look at that is if we separate out the dedicated enterprise funds like your beach preservation fund and your stormwater fund, you can't interr for for uh um anything in the general fund. So, and then what the general capital fund would be at 39 million. And as we we took the original number of this based on the priorities and it was much higher but with Don's help and Dave's help and the whole CIP team and then working with Mark to say how do we bring this into fiscal reality into looking at that fund balance number that Dave just showed you. How do we utilize the cash on hand but not drain the cash on hand? And then how do we also hit the targets you want to hit per the strategic plan. So that's that's what we think about as we're building this preliminary draft capital plan for 2027.

And here's just this is the M's got a question. Sorry. I just want to make sure I'm understanding this. If you could go back to the previous slide. So, if we take the $62 million and apply it against the $183 million, we'd be at $121 million in our projected fund balance. It would that be correct that estimating which would put us well below what we ended 26 and 25. Okay. All right. Thank you. very point

and sorry that previous slide can we go back I think it's one slide the same slide Melinda was asking about there we go um so um and I have to think about this slide and then the next slide together so as I understand it the dedicated enterprise funds just about 10.5 million that leaves 39.4 four million from general and capital fund. Um and so of the list of program totals and new projects um yeah you've got them colorcoded and maybe go to the next slide. So the blue are the ones that come from dedicated or enterprise funds. And so those are the ones being taken out at the 10 point almost 10.5 million down below. Okay. Just want to make sure how this all works together. All right. Thank you.

This this slide is a visual representation of of the table you saw before. The you know the curb CIP you can see how much of the beach um the dedicated funds the beach and storm water made up of that uh last year's budget carry forward and then the new projects equals that that grand total of 62 million again. And then this is the essence of what what we're we're doing here today. The projects that we're we put into place with all these factors that we went into our decision- making and and to come up with a preliminary plan. Uh and if we just pay attention to the columns, the approved budget on the Thank you. You have the approved Thank you very much. the approved budget for the current fiscal year, the projected rollover column, new projects, and then the total. So, it's that same process that we saw in the last two slides. Um, we wanted to keep that consistent. And I'm not going to read through this line by line for you because that would we would be here all night. Um, but what's we can talk about some of the highlighted projects. So, the Islanders Beach Park. This is the beach program up here. and we were able to move that's um project would be funded from that that beach fund. Uh and it's it's a priority project that was in the um in in the original priority list that you had approved back in May of 25 I believe was when that occurred.

So if we could go back and I'm going to I'm going to help steer through this a little bit. what what we need from y'all today. And this is going to get a little This one's easy. I I love it because it's easy. Um we're done with beach refourishment. May I may I b our friend right here? What you'll see up here is just some beach and I apologize. It it looked a little different on a different screen, but it looks a little You have a hard copy as well, but $150,000 towards beach park maintenance and improvements. That's just maintenance. We don't know what's broken until the fiscal year starts. Um, and we're making those improvements. Beach management and and and monitoring, self-explanatory. We've we've talked about that a lot of for a while. Um, sand fence and installation post beach nourishment. There's some dollars parked in here as well. very important that we install professionally and and on purpose the sand fence and and and different improvements up and along that beach. The large project here is getting back to what we first said we would do a couple years ago before beach reourishment started is to improve the beach park at Islanders. It includes additional parking stabilization. It has as a master plan the scope for three pathways. one it's in two on either sides call it bookends some parking up front which would be the paid paid pay pay to pay to park and then the additional parking spaces plus the spaces that are current metered that will be moved will be for island residents with beach parking passes a tremendous added value especially knowing that that that the time share and that that road and folly field and the neighborhood is is an important area

for investment And so we've based that number off of past opinion of cost, pricing, and past scope. What what I what I have to do with these folks, and we're not there yet. We still have I'll call it 69 days. Um figure out that real pricing and what we can what we can build it for. we've as two years ago we were using beach preservation revenue for this project and I would propose that we still use that.

So I I I think it's a good time now to ask you know from council still in alignment or are you still in alignment with this being as a priority item um the way it was proposed in 25?

Right. Um, I still see it as a priority item. I just wonder about the scope. Um, and I am going into this with a feeling that what has been proposed in total is too much. As I mentioned, you'd go from 183 to 121 in your million dollars of fund balance. And like you mentioned, you know, going to the grocery store hungry and you got a lot of projects. It feels like we have too much to consume. um not only from a financial perspective, but I also worry again about um the um the staff's ability to keep up with the number of projects as well as vendors as well. And we see that each and every year where we have carryover that occurs and this year we have 40% of carryover dollars uh excluding the beach reourishment fee. So, I'm just looking for opportunities. this is where I'm coming from to um reduce the amount of the total. And so I'm going to be looking and chiming in with s suggestions and possibilities of things that we should consider uh in order to bring that total dollar down so we don't end up with a a fund balance of 121 million.

Great. Um, let me start with yes, I support what's being proposed. Um, I'm gonna go back a little further. Um, I commend Mr. Orlando and his team for continuing to get better. Um, I can remember the first year that we approved a budget together and it was sort of sticker shot throughout the community because the budget had increased by so much. Unfortunately, we didn't talk enough about the fine print, which was the CIP program was the reason why the budget had went up so much. And at that point, we didn't have a five-year plan. We're just saying, "Hey, we need to catch up. We'd stopped because of COVID. We stopped because of some other reasons and we needed to catch up." That was five years ago and here we are today. and we move forward with a five-year plan to understand it a little bit better. We also, and I wish we had a slide to show this, but we've improved our burn rate far as how we get through projects. We've gotten better. We've gotten more efficient. I feel like when we look at the rollover numbers and we look at the new numbers, it's more realistic than it has been in the past. So, I'm going to take the approach as we move through this to support what st presenting. Um, and and I'm quite comfortable with picking up number four, which is a project that we agreed upon years ago and the only reason that we didn't do it is because there was a

conflict with beach nourishment. It's a need. It's a demand there that needs to be done. Um, I have a couple of questions. So, the it says a construction of new pathways. So, it's the expectation to I know originally when we talked about the redesigning of Islanders Beach, there was a request and discussion around not only the main pathway through the park leading directly out through uh to the beach, but two pathways along the sides. And um that was very very um strongly um endorsed by the residents who use that park. Um and a lot of the reason for that was because of the time shares across the street which will impact that um park facility um to a great extent. And as I understand it, they're going to be um starting to put people in there this April. So it's this year coming up. So when we say construction of new pathways, is that for just the main pathway or is that for two additional pathways or one of the pathways? Because as I recall, we kind of staggered it and said new central pathway. Yes, that's been done. And then we talked about doing one of the two side pathways and then seeing how that worked out and doing the second one in the future. So what does this mean when it says constructions of new pathways? Is that include all three of them? Does that include just one more of the side path? What does this include?

It's the full scope. Full scope. So all three of them would be moving on.

So we could scale back. I would ask you what do you prefer because what we've done is priced the full scope and I and I intended to come and talk with you about about that right because I I'm confused a little bit the you approved a master plan with three pathways the middle the left and the right for different folks but I don't I don't know how to if I'm going to bid this out I want to bid it out once and I don't want to come back and do another pathway and mobilize and cost that out a year later. So, do you intend it to be two pathways, three pathways, or leave the one pathway, make a quick decision today? It would be help that would help me a lot.

Well, you know, it's it's tough because we did have a master plan that was approved to move forward and that's what's been presented before us. So, that's it's a very challenging conversation because I don't think I maybe we are here to to revisit the scope of some of the projects. Um, I know that, you know, and I'll bring it up that some of the conversations we had about this was, you know, the cost of the playground and the and the size of it. When

going to a beach, you're not going to a playground park, you're going to a beach, right? Does it need to be that higher scale? Does it or does it need to be something lower? So, you to Mr. stunnish point, you know, where can we, you know, cost engineer some of this to a real, you know, real aspect and we're not digging into unnecessary funds that we don't need to be pulling into. So, you know, I ask, you know, are we going to redesign, rescope some of these projects today, mayor? I don't think we're prepared to do that. I don't either. That's I thought that was a question we were asked, though. Is that what you wanted us to respond to?

Can I make a suggestion? I think what we're talking about is do we keep these as priorities for planning purposes for the budget? Yes. And that we we kick back talking about the scope before it is bid.

So that that gives um Mr. Orlando and his team information before it's bid rather than having to go back out and bid it again um or add something to or take something away. So let's do it that way. Let's decide yes, this is still a priority. We had a lot of discussion before. I know a lot of folks um in in my ward go to Islanders Beach and they're very protective of it and and and they entered into the discussion about this and I don't want to step back from that discussion, but I want to be mindful of being frugal as well. Um, so let's let's say this is a priority and come back to us and if there's some that we want to look at the scope again, let's put that on a list for later be my suggestion. I

I would dare say that, you know, a a proposed budget of $5.4 million will come in at probably $6 million. And at that point in time, we need to take an evaluation of, okay, what is it that we're going to move forward? and and as I recall this was bid out and it came out above the budgeted amount and then beach reourishment came shortly thereafter. So it was postponed really for two reasons. One is it came out above budget and beach reourishment. So So that with with that said is that there's going to be more conversations about these priority projects as the bids come through and how we address Mr. Alfred.

Yeah, I I would agree with that point, Mr. Mayor and M. Bryson, uh, I'd be very hesitant to rehash a decision on this that we made already. Uh, and this isn't the appropriate time to do it in any event, and doing it at when after the bids come in, they're not appropriate. I think it's fine. Um, but I also want to commend the manager for putting together a five-year plan, I think that's been very Thank you, sir.

Yeah, Mr. Mayor. I I guess I I want to push back just a little bit. Because I think we have to come to grips with something we talked a lot about at our strategic planning session. That is giving the town manager room to move. Um I think he said that Sean Gillan has been quoted in saying, "I can give you a number, but it's going to be wrong." Let's face some facts here. Uh oh. When they come back with a number, it's going to be wrong. Yeah. And then when we start talking about timing,

you know, availability of contractors, that all plays into what the numbers ultimately going to be. But if we keep coming back to this table, trying to scrub based on a wrong number, just think about the amount of time that that's costing our staff, the amount of time it's costing against us being efficient. So, I guess I'm pushing back a little bit. I sort of feel like once we master plan, start to set some priorities and timelines, policy makers, let's start getting out of the way. That's sort of where my head is.

Got it, Mr. Becker. Well, so it was my understanding as I was listening that the question had been asked about whether or not we wanted to stay within the same scope as we had um earlier um I guess approved. And as I recall that conversation, there was a question as to whether or not we were doing both of the sides pathways or just one of them and then reevaluating whether or not we'd do the second um without having those numbers in front of us. I'm not sure how much of a savings it would be if we went move move forward with saying just do both of them at the same time or um or what the reality of that is. And I think that's an important piece for us to actually know. But um there are going to be times as we're sitting here and the dollars are short and the list is long. Um and I'll use y'all's um y'all's analogy. You know, you get to the grocery store and you have to pay for those groceries in the cart and sometimes you only have so much money in your pocket and so you have to put some stuff back. And so, you know, we we all know that one council doesn't bind another and re-evaluating situation um in the reality of today um is a worthy exercise and I I thought that's part of what we were being asked to do. Um, in that regard, if I had to prioritize within this project, I would certainly say that the residents of the island have felt very strongly about moving that parking that is held out for um non-residents, the paid parking that was going to be moved outside of the the gate area that that should be um done. um the playground. I think um as you mentioned, Mayor, we could probably um scale back and people are going to that park primarily to get to the beach. Um so that's a place where there could be some savings and as a fiscally responsible member of this council, I'm

going to be looking for savings around every corner.

Okay. All right. All right.

Yes, Mark. Well, I I'll just paraphrase message heard loud and clear. This is, I think, the only outlier that I have as a project that was approved that there was some question on do we build all the pathways at once. Um, we'll bid it out. Whatever it comes in at, we'll have that conversation. I have some thoughts on how to do that without having long workshops to to pick out playground equipment. But I think that there can be some cost savings in that playground and we'll go from there. Um, and Miss Becker is right. I I I did ask because the question was asked, does this include the full scope? And it does. It includes everything that you approved and if it comes in too high, we'll have a conversation. And regardless, I will have a conversation with you about both of those pathways because as of right now, I still don't know what the full scope of the expectation of council is. I would just build them all if that's what you approved. Um, but that's for a later day. Um, we talked about Harbortown dredge. We have some beach contingency. I think I misspoke when I said this is going to be the easy one, but it's a good one. It's a good conversation to have because we have the same conversation in house. We do. We I I believe we can find some dollars in the playground. I don't think we need the the most elaborate playground there. You can you could put some lumber out there for the kids to climb on and they probably just be happy on the way to the beach. So stay tuned. Um pathways. So, pathway maintenance uh $500,000 doesn't show that there's much or any rollover. We're not projecting at least and another 500 placeholder. You will see that we've made a lot of improvement

in pathways and not just repairing potholes, but we've we've connected small pieces that were unconnected. We've put in ADA uh curb um and access at intersections. Um and and I think Derek is stretching that $500,000 as as far and and as fast as he can. Appreciate him and his team. Jonesville Road, we have to come back and talk about that. Jonesville Road seems like an easy project. Put a pathway up and down Jonesville. There's so much encroachment into front yards and believe it or not that that's not the hard part. The hard part is the storm water runoff. By the time you sheet flow or flow water off that pathway, you're well into people's front yards. And so we have some thoughts. Jeff Nuttinger came up with a couple of good solutions recently and we owe you a conversation um and an update on that. Um, we're on our second design engineer trying to make sense of the Jonesville stretch. Um, we are trying to improve safety uh for walking, biking, whatnot, and and not encroach into folks yards at at that at that scope. And at the end of the day, it's a Buer County Road and they have their own expectations. Dunigan's Alley. Um, Sean, help me with that one. green green green light

and I'm going to lean on Don a little bit too that was a project as you know we we had to make some changes to because of some restrictions around setbacks from the the electrical poles but Don won't you

that's basically it there was a little bit of a pause on that we're revisiting that with Santi Cooper to see what we can fit in within there but ultimately it did it did set us back a little bit in the And we're we're optimistic that next year we can continue on with that soft cost and the design. And then not not to get in too far and Sean, you're going to have to read these. I can't see that. It's it's light print but also far away. I'm pretty sure it's me. Parkway of continued improvements to systems and I'm going

think you skipped over one. I think you skipped over number 12 which is along 278 a new pathway there.

My apologies. Um the uh this one is is scheduled to be finished up in this fiscal year. You see there it's not uh we're not requesting funding for the next one. Construction will be in 28 and so we have the dollars we need. It's a grant through DOT. Um the rest of the the next fiscal year will be a lot on the DOT grant. It's a great project. We're we're splitting a significant cost with them. And then you'll see over on the right side, you see over here, this is what you're asking about, Miss Bryson. Number 12, correct? That's correct. Yes.

Yeah. And you can see the notes. Self-explanatory in the notes. So, we're basically waiting on SE dot. Correct. Correct. Correct. Yeah. There's no there's no need to tie up funds this fiscal year. Okay. And

so some new work at Lagoon or at South Forest Beach number 13, number 14, number 15 are somewhat new projects and prioritized some survey and design work in 27. And so the South Forest Beach hawk, I've heard a lot about that both from the public and from some of you as a hawk signal on Forest Beach. We have some real significant issues up and down North and South Forest Beach with where people cross. Um and so we're starting some work there. It's always best to put some soft cost in year one when and realize is going to take a year when we don't own the road, especially with DOT. So um ditto with the Lagoon Road Pathway. Um William Hilton Parkway, Matthews Drive to Shelter Cove, some soft cost to truly uh get into those pathway systems in that area. So, um, use this.

All right. Yep. You're coming to the new one. Sorry. Go ahead. Okay.

What you're seeing on the rest that aren't showing up here, we didn't take them off if those are five-year priorities. We didn't just eliminate them for 27 and and and hide the hide the row. We we left them up there, but they're up there for you to realize that they're not funded. They're not prioritized. We're not spending dollars yet. And I think that as you've reviewed your packets before this meeting and today and even after something's jumping out at you saying, "Well, wait a minute. I thought that was going to be prioritized in FY27." It it is it's time to discuss that. But without that occurring, you'll see number underneath 20 will show new South Forest Beach Drive pathway at Seascape Villas and Port Royal entry pathway. Our staff, our team has identified some safety related concerns on some pathway pathway stubs, pathway connections, and we're we're starting some soft costs to to start start building th those out in areas that are highly traveled and and unsafe. and then some contingency.

Um Peter, sorry before you leave the pathway list, two things. I'm I'm really glad to see the South Forest Beach at Seascape Villas added. Um I've raised that question. I used to live down there and um I've seen folks ride their bikes across the road there to try to reconnect with a way to get to the beach. So I'm glad we're adding that one. The other thing I would note is I know there's some folks here from the bikewalk board. Um, and I would be interested in hearing their comments before really commenting more about whether or not to keep something yes or no on the list. So, um, I'll I'll just reserve that after we hear from them. Um, as Miss Bryson indicated, the bikewalk advocacy group has recommendations to present uh later on. Um, and as you know, uh, Pathways and Bicycling has has been a hobby of mine for many years, having served four years as head of the kicking asphalt group and 10 or 12 years on the bike advocacy group and created the uh, ambassador program a dozen years ago. U, I have seen the material that the bike advocacy group would like to present. I I think uh I would hope that it could be given some consideration. My suggestion would be that sometime after this meeting and before we have an opportunity to revisit the pathway program that representatives of the bike advocacy group have an opportunity to sit down with Mr. Gillan and Mr. Datam uh and discuss it. Obviously the staff on consideration of that can make its own recommendation changes if if it desires to do so. Uh but I I think there's considerable further con discussion that needs to be taken place on the pathway program. Uh for one thing, I found an item that I had seen

on a prior version. It doesn't show up. It may have been lost. I think we need to get to the bottom of that as well.

Yes, I appreciate and support safety related uh programs. I'm happy to see the Port Royal edition, especially given that those time shares are going to be opening and we know that there'll be increased volume of traffic going through that area. Um, and I know that uh sometimes you do not see who is on the pathway as you're driving through there. My only question would be given that there are five new projects here, if you have uh confidence about the time and capacity of being able to add those additional items um for this year.

Yes, ma'am. And I think these these are ones that have been really really um examined by staff for a while and Don's team is ready ready to move on it. So, I think we really feel really good. They're not huge projects. It's from scale. So, it's something I think we can handle pretty relatively easily.

One more quick thing. Uh, Mr. Alfred suggested um that staff meet with bikewalk folks um for somehow in this process. I'm looking forward I couldn't remember but the planning commission is scheduled uh to meet on these projects on March 18. So, if staff could meet with bikewalk folks before it goes to planning commission might be helpful in the process. Mark, I'll leave that up to you and the time frame the staff has available.

Yeah, I'll ask this. If the council members know what the proposal is andor if BikeWalk is here with a proposal, I would be happy to receive a proposal and consider in the budget. Um, I'm sure Mr. Gillan and his team can meet with BikeWalk before the planning commission, but we're pretty close to the packet going out. So, if there's a proposal, we will have the materials. Great. they're here today. Even better.

Um yes. So as far as the pathway program is concerned, um anxious to understand what uh the bikewalk folks have to to add as well. Um and trust Mr. Orlando to have a qualified conversation with them. Um I I wanted to use this program to sort of help the discussion later on. So my rough math is right. A third of the three million approximately 3 million that being proposed here are new projects. Am I correct in that? I mean roughly. Yeah. Okay. So I I guess where I'm going is if staff has capacity and there's obviously a community need for these reinvestments and push forward. That's it, Mr. Mayor. Comments. All right. All right. So great. We'll we'll take a look at that at that proposal, but going up from 1.6 and 26 to 2.95 and and 27 all in with some with some project rollover. So, uh some significant investment in pathways, roadways, um I think for for time sake, we're we're doing pretty good. You know, you want me to speed up or slow down or or the pace, but roadway roadway maintenance and improvements. And I'm not going to read everything, but that's just maintenance of our roads, including you repair potholes, curbing, shoulders, pavement markings. And I I hope that little by little, we're all starting to realize that most intersections on

Hilton Head Island are restriped with a consistent standard striping pattern that you all had some voice on, one that is endorsed and supported by DOT. And you know, I remember not that that long ago, uh, apparently my 3 minutes are up. Uh, not that long ago, um, we had no two intersections, no two intersections the same. So that's where that fund is starting to pay dividends. It's a little bit at a time. It's taking those areas. Palmetto Bay Road was our very first case study of low-level lighting, crosswalk, trash can kiosk, and a safer intersection. Um, it's not perfect. Um, folks still speeds, folks still cross, but we're doing our best with consist consistency. Um, we put $200,000 as a proposal in the town road resurfacing program. that doesn't go very far but that will fill some potholes. um signal maintenance uh total project new new money I call it FY27800 roll forward six and that's the maintenance of the traffic signal system the traffic really the traffic mast arms um we are in a place where we're going to have to start replacing and significantly improving those mast arms they have reached their their I wouldn't say end of life but but they're they're getting pretty far along where we have to be real careful to not make those investments. So, anything to add, Don? Am I Sean? Am I missing anything there?

No, you're right on track.

What you will see as we bring this back forward and I will use some advice Miss Tunner gave me. Show discretionary and show some maintenance work. Right? discretionary is you don't have to do it and the maintenance is you almost you have to to keep to keep up. You will see a column back on this as we get through all of this to really sparse out our our maintenance versus discretionary. Um the one I just mentioned definitely is not discretionary. Um and then some some more improvements including Beach City Road, Pope Avenue, William Hilton Parkway, Matthews Drive, Dunigan Square Pope roundabout, Palmetto Bay Road, and Cross Island Parkway. Um, last year we placed 750. I forgot to do that. There we go. Number number 25, 750, putting $500,000 towards that this year. Um, again, that's that's maintenance work on a lot of that. Um, our thought is low-level lighting and landscaping is a traffic calming element and a public safety pedestrian and vehicular at the same time. So it our our goal isn't beautifification. I I I think the outcome that most folks see is the beautifification um and the enhancement of our corridors, but the real intent and purpose is safety. So you'll see that dirt roads um self-explanatory. You see where those dollars are. We believe that we will finish Mitchellville Road this year. I think that is a long time coming. a lot of lessons learned and a and and a lot of benefit um on a small piece of road but a long time coming. I

I was just going to ask if there is any update on that. Has the plant opened back up again and are they delivering asphalt? Yes. Yes, it has. It has to be 55 degrees and rising and the last several weeks have been uh not conducive to that. So I we're looking in the next couple weeks that should get cranked up. I'm glad to see number 29 in the dirt road program. That's just so you can get home. So you can get home.

Mr. Brown,

just on the dirt road paving program, uh, Mr. Orlando uh mentioned to us in in in passing during the strategic planning workshop that needs to do some work with the land acquisition manual. um to sort of move things along with this program. And I know that's one of the action items is to review the entire land acquisition manual. I'm not suggesting that uh we loosen or buy a bigger belt because I know that Mr. Orlando's got a lot going on. I just don't want to lose sight of that piece as any way to assign a staff member to just that portion of the land acquisition manual because if not, we're just going to continue to roll those dollars over year after year, right? And uh we've got such momentum with this this program um as far as folks asking us to pave roads that are in very very bad condition. um almost unpassable for emergency vehicles and for us not to be able to move this forward because we've got a policy concern I think is um injustice to us. So if we could move that piece along, I think that's important. It please have the confidence it's moving along. I have a draft of the land acquisition manual in in my email. Um, we have a staff member that that's aligned with Ben um working to make that adjustment and adding to that both private and public right of way acquisition criteria because those are two different two two different scenarios with a lot

of help to make sure that we are um staying within the legal lines as well. So those are coming forward. A lot of progress. Happy to see it. All right. Well, I won't go over every single one of those. Where are we? Islandwide intersection pedestrian safety. You can read that. 250 last year and ask for 250 this year with a full spend. Done. um Jonesville Road and Spanish Wells Road right turn lane improvements, civil design that's rolling forward. Um but we are in the civil design of the pathway and those intersection improvements. Um Thomas and Huntton is our engineer and I think that we're making good progress with the intersection um and trying to make sense of the pathway that I that I mentioned a section ago. We talked about North Point USPS access improvements. Um, we know what those are. They punch through the post office from North Point to Gumree with some improvements for pathway and intersection and crosswalk alignment um on Gumree. Abby Walk entrance um just remains. We're just simply rolling forward. Not not new dollars in in that regard. Um that's roll forward. William Hilton Parkway Gateway Corridor and Stony Corridor. We've put in there $150,000 um to finalize the corridor master plan and to just leave some incidental dollars we need in there. Stay tuned. If I could um briefly on that just expand a little bit

more because um that is a area of conversation that has been taking place for quite some time. Not to get into the details of it but but the purpose of that master plan as we're discussing with consultants the the purpose of it because I think it's important for the community to understand what it is that's going to be coming forward in the next couple of months. sir. Um so if you could just expand on that just a little bit. Yes sir.

Um well we have been putting our thoughts to paper based upon a lot of input to date. Um we have as a staff refined what I would call a corridor plan. It takes a look at Squire Pope, um, Spanish Wells, Wild Horse, um, and starts trying to improve, uh, the corridor from a from a flow and safety standpoint. Uh, I anticipate, Mayor Perry, with your approval and town council's knowledge, an April workshop um of town council for the William Hilton Parkway gateway corridor corridor plan in April. I I want to I want to go ahead and just in case that doesn't happen, let the public understand that there are a lot of moving parts that are taking place within the spring and early summer. And for this master plan, there's a lot of different parties that have to be a part of the conversation. And the goal has been to bring it forward sooner, but there's been a lot of different elements that we've been discussing that have pushed this down the road just a little bit. And um if an April 28th meeting does not happen, then it would not come back until a June because we have budget conversations in May. Um the goal is to have it ready to go according to to to you, Mark, and staff for that April 28th. Um as long as the leg work is done with our with everybody else, I I understand what you're you're asking and and what you're saying. Yeah. Our goal is by the end of the fiscal year, right, that we're back in front of you most importantly with the public involved to take to take a look at that corridor. Um, as we think about Hilton Head Island's future and the investment um, in Hilton Head Island, realizing that the DOT and the county funds through the referendum are placed directly and only on the bridge, right? We know that we have to, as I say, all football days,

keep your feet moving. Um, in a time like this, I I think it's time that we bring forward um that corridor master plan. The goal is April. I I do need to talk with a bunch, DOT included, and especially um but no surprises for the public. Um it will be public. It will be with some input. It will be well advertised. And I just think that the sooner we have a Hilton Head Island position on the corridor to improve flow and safety and economic opportunity um for the future, right, for the next 25 years um the better. But I also want to make a point that that this line item is a big part of how we allocate funds going forward because there's some heavy expenditures here and with the toolbox that we have in front of us, financing toolbox, we've got to look at every aspect and and and determine what works best for us. So I just want to put that out there as well. So, the $150,000 is that to do the planning that we're currently working on for the quarter?

Yes. All right. Thank you. And any other incidentals? We we're we're pretty well funded for for the work I'm doing right now getting us to the workshop more or less. Um, never know what comes up. I need to keep some some small dollars in there. You'll you'll see some real projects though, right? In a couple pages from now, you'll see some real projects that are starting to become outcomes of a corridor enhancement.

Yeah, I'm I'm happy to see um these these dollars associated with um particularly the uh number 38 and number 41. you know, those those those were items that um you know, we sort of were left holding the bag on with the corridor project and the old referendum, right? And we probably been talking about those projects for eight years now and they are very very important to us here on Hilton Head. So, I guess my my my real statement here is let's face some facts. There's no way that we can just turn around and build it tomorrow. I mean, it's going to be some time before we can get ready for construction. So, I think we need to prepare the community and prepare ourselves. To the mayor's point, there's a going to be a pretty hefty number that we're going to be looking at. But I think we also will take that number and use that as motivation, pull together a funding plan to get it done. And none of that happens unless we start the engine ourselves here locally. So I'm happy to see these in there. It's very important and far past time for us to get to this point. I think that the um comments that have been made have been very interesting. Um and what I wanted to pick up on is the one of the first ones that was made with regard to the monies that were um originally set aside, allocated,

expected from the 2018 referendum that were are no longer available to us because they've been redirected to the bridge only. And so it certainly is my expectation that when we're going back to look at the dollars for this master plan that we've been um working on and I I think there's a lot of great work that's being done and I look forward to April um getting that in front of everybody. So um but along with that there's got to be a big ask and not necessarily from the town residents but a big ask from the state in terms of how they expect us to pay for it. um from the county for how they expect us to pay for it since they literally have left us out to dry and and you can probably hear the irritation in my voice and it won't stop. Um but those that work that needs to be done, mayor, that you referred to the conversations, those are conversations that need to happen and results that need to come back with dollars and for these projects and then there is no other alternative. Hunter, you have a green light.

Okay, moving forward. Not this page. All right, I asked this question. We're good,

sir. All right, moving right along. Main Street. We owe you another round of discussion on on Main Street. Last time we left, uh, we had a plan that included pathways, sidewalks, street lights, crosswalks, midblock crosswalks, connective pathway to and from William Hilton Parkway to and from Main Street, as well as uh trying our best to fit in some on street bike lanes um only within a certain amount of rightway. And so now that we're a little further um with with with a team that's aligned on how to how to build and and design and build uh we would like to come back together and show you right the options and the hurdles based upon your collective individual and mostly collective um goals on that road. We owe that to you. We have placed some dollars in here. Uh we since there's some reading ahead which I always do um we're proposing Main Street be one of the projects at least we proposed to you for consideration as part of the beer county referendum uh transportation sales tax referendum. So we've left some dollars in here right now just so that we could confir really to refine expectations if that makes it that far. That make sense? Okay. So we have a a note here. Sean, take a note too. Um, that that Main Street, we need to come back and talk with you about it. But that's why those dollars are back in there. We don't have project funds for that road. That's a that's a tough one to fund. Um, but I would say a very

important road to fund. Parallel Road to William Hill Parkway uh connects school and others. And it's a in in my opinion one of um the most underused road as a safe route to school. um when we when I see kids coming out of my home, I see kids walking up and down that road unsafe to and from school, let alone employees walking. So, I think that's a great opportunity we finally have, but I would encourage us to get back to the table as soon as we can on that one. Right.

Eric, I'll say ditto. Thank you. Yes, please. I know a number of my constituents are concerned about the access along Main Street, especially going to and from the school area and uh we certainly need it sooner rather than later. Um so thank you for putting this back on the table with high prior with priority. All right,

my paper. Segment five. Number 52. I'm down to number 52. Um, segment five. Matthews Drive to Folly Field Road to Shelter Cove. That's part of the thoroughares and corridor work we've been doing for some safety, landscaping, intersection, lighting, and other improvements. Phase one is survey and design. And once we understand survey and some preliminary design, uh we have to come back or we we will come back and talk with you about that. There's some decisions to make. It's a matter of, you know, how safe um and driveway impacts and and intersection treatments and some things like that. So th this is an important one. I would say that again, we don't have full funds to construct the road. I don't know how much that would cost because we haven't confirmed your uh collective decision on scope. Um first steps were phase one on the survey. Uh we have to do some preliminary design and then come back to y'all. Um so I sense a CIP real CIP roll our sleeves up workshop in our near future to start scoping some of this work be great. Is this so far so good? Is this what you were thinking we were going to do? I was

about to ask you the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Except no one has said take that project off that list yet. Okay. Um there there was an opportunity to do that. I thought and I tried and I was shot down. So I'm not really sure what we're doing to be honest with you. Ditto. It doesn't seem like people are interested in moving priorities at least at this point in time. So,

and I think that's important because you know what's interesting and I just think that this this conversation is good to have so that we all know how this works. I usually do this by myself. I usually do this with my team. I usually do this talking with you all. And I think that the the extra layer this this year at a workshop is so helpful to me. Um, but at the end of the day, when we get out of here, if I still have that total amount of of of funds, um, I have to meet with Dave, then I have to talk with you uh directly and one one or so at a time as we prepare the budget and make some decisions. Again, this isn't my final budget proposal. This is hearing your feedback. So, I think it's really important we just keep reminding ourselves of that. I'm just in concerned about that process and how we do that because there although it seems like there's a lot of time there's not a lot of time.

Well, today's there's no better time than the present. Yes, and I thought this was the roll up the sleeves talk about these things meeting. So, I I'm I'm totally confused. I I I think it's more about the priority of the projects to make certain that we're moving forward those which we all agree upon not the not the actual master plan of each one of them but for all the master plans and the dollars that we have what is it that can be done it needs to be put into the fiscal year 25 budget and I think that's what we're looking for

I don't think we've answered that question about can it be in the budget yet I mean Anything could be in the budget, but what are the ramifications of it being in the budget? Um, you know, I don't think we've had that conversation yet. We're having it now.

I guess I'm I'm hearing that there may be some projects of discussion to take off of priority and I haven't heard those. what I've heard so far is what is it going to cost and can we save some money? So, I guess I'm I'm trying to open the door for our colleagues here. If there's something that you want to take off, then let's have that conversation openly today.

Well, it's not about taking off, it's a pri prioritization. We have when you add up all of the projects for 2027, it's 100 projects. And so, they're all the same priority even though they're different color dots or different color stars. And so there's no conversation about I'm not saying to cut. All of these are important worthwhile projects. It's just a matter of the pacing of them. And everything that I'm hearing from, you know, is that we should do them all for 27. And I think there's just a question about the p, you know, the pacing of them. And my concern is not only with the pacing of the 27, but these projects that we're spending money on design, you know, maybe 150 to $300,000, that's just for the design part. So, we're going to spend all this money designing and then we got to figure out how to pay for them and that's going to be millions of dollars. And so even though we've laid out five years of a CIP plan with stars, we don't I don't see a fiveyear CIP plan with dollars. And so I worry about we consume all this money this year, you know, how are we going to actually build these things in the outy years? Because although we don't have the budget completed yet, you've you've already given us some preliminary results that our revenue is only going to increase between 1 to 2%. Expenses grow faster than 1 to 2%. And so we're going to have pressure, you know, from that piece. And if our revenue is flattening, you know, I'm just trying to think ahead, not just for 27 and what we can consume, but you

know, what the five years look like so that we can pace ourselves properly and make sure that we don't end up in a situation where we're not able to then follow through on those items that we've committed on building. So, I I'm glad that Miss Tunnel made that point. Okay. And I think there's some beauty in this process. It doesn't seem necessarily 100% this is what's going to happen or not. I mean, we talked about rollover earlier over earlier and there's roll over there for a lot of different reasons. I'm sure the town manager can go through and have his staff explain to us each one of the rollover items and why they're being rolled over. Right. So, and Islanders Beach. I'll go back to that one as a prime example. And if we had our way, that money would have been spent. There other projects where there other hiccups that come into play that force us to roll over. So I think again I'm I'm sort of a little hesitant about saying what's the priority for 27 not knowing what's going to have to happen to make that project happen because you could say there's a priority and then you run into something like a SCOT situation and all of a sudden you can't do it but that may free up some staff time to do something else. So those things continue to happen and I I've got a lot of confidence in the town manager being nimble enough to keep us moving. Okay, that's sort of where my head is on on this exercise today.

Second. the this is the first time that the council has had an opportunity to sit and review a CI program in the fashion that we're doing it today. Previously, it always just goes right to the planning commission, the list of CIP projects. And it's the planning commission who sits and they try to prioritize um the list. And I'm trying to remember a time when I didn't sit in that room and listen to them put ones by everything. But when everything's a priority, really nothing is a priority. I think we've all heard that before. And it feels like typical government, right? You put something on a list and then no one wants to say no later. No one wants to revise it later and no one wants to account for the cost of it later because, you know, there's always an election year. So I I think it would behoove us because we are caring and dedicated civil servants to this town that we remember that our job is to get things done in the most efficient way, saving the taxpayer their dollars and prioritizing their dollars on what is considered safety first. And then look in our grocery basket and see what we really need to have. Do we really need the extra box of cake flour when we're not going to bake a cake for another year? My point being is let's put all aside if we can how typical typically government works and really try to focus in on what's important to our residents today. It's just a request.

I I don't know. I'm really confused here to be honest with you. Because if if that's the approach that we want to take and I'm opening it up because I want us to speak freely amongst each other. If we're if we're saying that then to me the new items shouldn't be on here. Why are we putting new items on here if we're saying that we can't do the old stuff? I I'm really confused. I mean obviously there's been some community push for this reinvestment if there's new items showing up. So his argument that we don't put them on here and wait until 28 to have a discussion about the new items. Obvious they're important. That's why they're on there. So I'm not sure that I'm getting a clear understanding as far as what the council is trying to direct the town manager to do here. I I I'm I'm I'm hearing that we're trying to do too much, but nobody's saying put the oranges back because we already got apples. I I guess I I I need us to be a little bit more open. We're talking generalities here. If we expect the town manager to deliver to us, you got to be specific about what it is that's not a priority in 27. And I'm not hearing that.

Well, I also think that it's the funding aspect. You know, we know that all the projects can be done. Well, if we try to do all the projects, let me rephrase that. If we try to do all the projects, we'll go broke. We can't do that. But I'm looking at this as we're going through and I and going through what has been a priority, realizing what okay, at the end of it, there's going to be a dollar amount that's tied to it. And yes, we need the directive of of Mark and staff as to what the capacity is. Then it's okay, what is the priorities to get done of the priorities that are there? and then we start pulling things back and say, "Okay, that needs to be in 28." We can hold off on that. That doesn't have as much of an impact as the other items do. And that's where I'm looking at this as from our lenses as to how we help Mark drive that vote. Mark, I want you to chime in as well.

I'll jump I'll jump in. This is great because in in past years, I've presented this to you and then we'll sit one and two at a time and present the budget. And what was asked of me is how can town council get involved earlier and before the planning commission prioritization. This is that opportunity, right?

Um and and again, I think sometimes just talking through it helps. I'm going to scale back some of these projects based upon the fund balance um that we have and the fund balance reserve that we have consistently increased every year. Right. Our bond rating is AAA. We've paid off significant amount of debt. We've borrowed some money. Um some dollars at a debt millage. We know what we can use it for. We've shared with you today and I think it's real clear we're going to use 10 million of it in fiscal year 27. Um and we'll we'll make that proposal to you how that can be used. I think your conversation today needs to get back in in my humble opinion to of these priorities. Are there some things that you don't want to see up there? It's always easy to go. Yeah, not yet. I know what we can do all of this. This is going to take us three years though, two and a half years by the time you design permit, find state money, find your mark money. But if it's never a priority with a fund attached to it, then a DOT, right, SC DOT won't take it serious. I'll give you an example. Now that Cine Circle is a priority and it's in here, it's going to be their priority. Gumree Road intersection, if we're trying to make some adjustments and improvements to how that intersection flows, if it's not on this list, we won't spend our dollars on it. And I have to start somewhere. Um, and I think it's an interesting year when we add up the Buer County sales tax referendum and our opportunity to really look at a tax increment finance district because if I could, I I would ask us all to just and realize these are priorities. We have to truly bake that tiff over the next 12 18 months and we're going to show you how to do that. Um if if you feel strongly that you see a project up here that you say absolutely not. I don't think that's a next year project, please tell me today

and then I'll come back to you in the next 30 days and show you what a balanced budget looks like across all six funds including this.

That's that's the way I perceive that this would go down as well. But also understanding that to your point that if it's in engineering year one, it's in permitting in year two, then it's construction in year three. We know that things take three years. Um, pickle ball courts, perfect example. I know we're not there yet, but the fact that we've got to go through all these different agencies to get the approval to move forward on the design. The design took eight months, right? permitting is going to take another 12 months. So, they've got to be in there so that they do get done down the road and we've got to understand the process as to which they get done. Um, and also the lift within that year that is required of staff. So, and that's where we look back to you all to say, you know what, that's not a heavy lift. Having it in there is a priority because a lot of the work's been done and we're letting the state figure out the permitting, but there's followup. Oh,

it makes it it makes it hard to talk about which specific projects to move the priority time frame, but you have a lot of them that have a little bit of money that you're working on that year one. So then again, what happens in year two and year three when they all are coming up to be built? And so does that. So thinking about that way, is there a way that some of the the permitting or design work should be pushed another year because of what's going to be happening in regards to pacing moving forward. And that's the approach that I took when I looked at this and that's where I think the opportunity is. And so I asked, you know, I asked the question, do you have enough capacity to do that? Well, it really puts you in an awkward position. And I I'll acknowledge that. Um it, you know, you guys are high performing. You deliver. And so it's not easy to say, I don't I'm not sure I can do all that. Uh and again, it is a concern that I have of mine in regards to again a hundred items with money. It's a lot. And like some of the ones that are coming up, I heard you say we have to put money out there so that we show that it's a priority when we don't have funding for the project. So if we have to put money, do we have to put that much money? I mean, I'm just looking for opportunities and um

helpful. I don't I don't feel the love and support of my of my peers in regards to that conversation. and and maybe they're they're not concerned, but uh I'm concerned uh regarding the pacing, the amount, um the impact financially for 27. Um and again, I'm not saying that these projects aren't important. It's just a matter of how we line them up and how we pace them.

If I could, I appreciate the discussion. I've been trying to sort out how to work on how do we move forward? What's a compromise here? how can we include all the elements that my colleagues are mentioning? Um, and so I'm I kind of wrote down a process that I'm thinking about in my head right now. I think what we're trying to do at this early look before planning commission because by statute it's a planning commission that looks at this list and sets up priorities. And I I agree that with Miss Becker, I don't think I've ever seen them say other than everything's a one. Um, I think we need to say you no longer have ones, you get twos, threes, and fours. So, nothing's a one anymore. Um, but any rate, um, I think now we're looking at the list to say, is there anything that we have heartburn about even thinking about doing? It's like making our grocery list, if you will. Um, and and then, um, staff will go back with that and and complete a list for planning commission to look at. and we'll beg of our friends on the planning commission to please look at it with regard to priorities and help us out. Um, and then the staff has to go and say, "All right, where can we get money from?" Um, and and to Miss Toner's point, not just where can we get money from this year, but in the next years to actually get the project done. Um and that then come back to town council uh when we discuss our budget and say here's some areas that uh we run into a buzzaw with with regard to funding or are thinking about and what the planning commission has decided and then we can make our final cuts if you will on the list. That's that's I think that's a way to think through the process um and and maybe to ask staff to give us a little bit more information about what do you think we can really do? Could we ever find funding for project X? If we if that's something we could never do, then why have it on the list? Um because I I

agree. I don't want to put good money after bad. If we spend a lot of money on planning and we can never do something because it's it's a pie in the sky to go and get money from somewhere to do it, then why do the planning for it? I I agree with that. But but we don't know the answer to that. I think staff can help us out with that and help us call it that way. Just to keep the conversation positive. I I think that beach reourishment is a prime example. I mean that was a big number. We didn't say it wasn't a priority. Said yes is a priority. It's going to cost us a lot of money. We collectively came to the table and said okay it's time to start paying the bigger chunk of that. How do we do it? We had a very qualified conversation about how we got there. So, I guess I want to take the edge off as far as what the money is going to look like two or three years down the road because we've proven that we have found ways to get it done and I just want to keep that sort of alive.

I I'm I'm curious if if Dave has any comments that he wants to throw in on this since since he is the money man over there as an aside. He told me no about I saw that but I thought I'd put him on the spot.

Thanks, Mark. Um, I I I think the interaction's good. I I really do. And where we are in the budgeting process right now, it's really good to have these conversations. Um, and we've got bandwidth to move and flow. We've got funding opportunities if need be at the end of this presentation. We're kind of in year one right now. And so um uh you know I I kind of understand what I gave you and what the total cost is but um you know I think we'll kind of reach a a happy medium through this and um so you know from our goal perspective as we go through our operation reviews we can layer on what this looks like and see come back and say okay here's what it is here's what it is. Um but um I think you know for me from a learning experience perspective trying to understand all of these different projects three months in myself um and looking at the priority of these projects uh I you know I went through this in October at another location and every project was a priority over five years. I mean, they are and I can tell you the funding didn't look that great over five years, but then it would it's just but then there's ways to find a way to make things happen to your point as we go down the road and there are concessions that would be made. Uh we do have flat revenues, you're right, and um so we have to kind of balance that through this. But um uh you know I do think that uh the conversation has been very productive so far from what I've seen as to where folks are as we go down through these projects. And um you know I back to Mark's point you know we're just trying to I think get direction as best we can um as we you

know try to formulate what is a preliminary budget look like for 27. Okay. Now you know why I asked him to say something. No, it's great. And I'll add this. What what is helpful is is your conversation because I'm starting to understand that um there's some opportunity in the future. Um it it it is not to borrow and I want to make sure I say that as a town manager. I have never borrowed general fund debt to build a project in my life and that would be not my priority. I'm proud of the fact that I've been with the town and every year we've added a fund balance, paid off debt, increased bond rating. We just had rating agency calls last week with Dave on the 35 up to $35 million. Um, we're in great shape. I think what's really important is is that we haven't all been in one room collectively together to talk about the future. And the future is a CIP, right? It's my job to help us understand the next 25 years. And that is through investments because every time we price a project and wait two years, the costs go up considerably. We I'm I'm at the point I think in in in my life and in profession, I don't think the costs are going down. I used to think that. I'm like, "No, it's just a really good time and everybody's just blowing and going and buying big boats and big trucks and that the prices will come down when the economy changes a bit." It It's not. What I think is really important though is that as we get through these projects, we talk about our opportunities with funding tools. That's the most important because we talk about TIFF, but I don't have the confidence yet to go spend time, money, energy, talk to Buer County and and other partners on TIFF without your clear direction and really transparent

direction that a TIFF district should be or could be in our future to fund some of the things up here we think we can't afford. And the same goes for storm water utility funds. If we want to build more than $6 million, and these two plus Jeff just proved they can build storm water a lot faster than we could 24 months ago. We're building it so fast that we're almost dipping below the fund balance. I never thought I'd see that. So, could we borrow storm water in the future? And and what is up here? Right. In the past, we've always said, "Well, we don't want to borrow storm water." And and I think I quote myself, I don't want to bring to you a rate increase if we're not efficient or I can can't prove we're efficient. And I don't want to bring you um a 20 or $30 million storm water debt strategy if I can't show you what the projects are. Right? I think in the past we've been really we haven't been as good to tell you what the projects are going to be or should be. and it's up here. And so, why don't we do this? Why don't we kind of get back on that track of let's get through these projects. We still have what I call 69 68 days um to talk to you about balancing a budget. I have to balance the operating budget before I truly can balance this. Um Dave will be here another 30 or 60 days by then. Um it' be even better and we'll go from there. What you do see up here are the new projects. I I will say and for full disclosure, we did not come up with these projects, y'all. At different times, you know, full disclosure, right, Sean's laughing over here and I'm hiding behind him a little bit. You have asked me to put some of you or individually you've asked me to put these projects on here and I'm I'm excited to put them on here. I just want us all to know that they're on here

and not one or two at a time. Oh, that fair. Okay. So, let's just keep keep moving. You will see Wexford Sepine Circle. Well, that really means Sepine Circle. Segment 8 number 55. I think that says 55. We are any day now we're going to receive a financial uh agreement letter um from the SC DOT that would allow me to bring with Sean Gillan and team that agreement back or to town council for your consideration to transfer funds to the DOT to allow them or ask them to be a project manager on the Sepine Circle improvements. So stay tuned. Those dollars are are going to roll forward, but I slow down and make you sure that you're aware that that is a priority. And DOT as recent as I think this week or late last week with you, they talked to you and said that that agreement's in in in their legal department and it's and it's or with Don and it's is coming to us as fast as they can get their their legal team around it. So stay tuned.

Lawyers that are slowing things up again. Yep. I I didn't want to make any eye contact, but yes, that is what they said. So,

so I just want to talk about that a little bit, maybe listen a lot about that because it seems to me that while that project is on the papers and I see it as a priority and I see a lot of dollars attached to it, I don't recall any real conversations among the council um and how that got there. Um and and so I'm interested in some background information on this. Um we have roads like Gumree and Spanish Wells um that are high accident areas. Safety being the primary responsibility of this council and um and I don't see them moving and yet I do see this coming forward and dollars attached to it and the rest and so I just like background information please. I I don't really care though. I

I'll do my best. The background is it's been a priority in the CIP for at least 12 24 months. Um some of the issue has been um capacity of circle compared right and we had that workshop compared with you know flow through the circle with changing traffic patterns from pope heading away from the beach and from sea pines heading out of sea pines that that has become a choke point so to speak at that circle we've taken a stab at trying to solve it we've had a workshop I think a lot of what we were proposing wasn't quite the right perfect solution um and also not what DOT was willing to tolerate. So I've said well if they have such a it's their circle it's their road um are they interested in helping us? They said yes, but we would like some financial contribution because we don't have this project funded as part of the SC DOT funding um budget and asked for some dollars to help um with those soft costs and that design and engineering.

Who ultimately is responsible for that entire project? Was is that going to fall on the town or is that coming from elsewhere? You know, some of these conversations I know have been had. I wasn't a party to them but I am interested in the details in terms of what this overall project and again you know how it got to be such a strong priority with significant dollars attached to it um when we have these other areas of concern across the island um that are death that are literally related to deaths that have happened is still to me and if I'm having this conversation now for the first time with everybody should be priority over this one. I understand the traffic backup. We have roads that are traffic backups all over the place and and I'm addressing some of those that that you see on the list because they're important and there are safety factors in in the ward that I represent. Um but this to me doesn't feel as though it's come through the channels in the most transparent way. My understanding is that for some period of time the town was going to take the leadership in the development of the sepine circle remedies and had retained and used the outside traffic engineers Kimley Horn for period of time. They came up with a number of designs. Uh we've been working closely with the uh uh cines community service associates have been involved with this and in terms of Greenwood. Um but essentially this would have been money that we would have spent with Kimley Horn going to get into if the state takes over. The state will take the same money and give it to the presumably the same engineers to do the same work.

Do you recall those plans when we were looking at various segments and and parts of um the roadways when a variety of different plans across the island were presented to us? Um, so yes, that work was done. Did do recall those plans being presented to us, but just repeat what you just said to me. So this $350,000 um Steve, that's money that we are going to turn over to SC DOT for them to do the same work that we would have done ourselves. I just need some clarification on what this process is. if you on the process of the money and the

so the CD dot I understand be the project manager for this. I just want to know the continued um uh commitment from the town with regard to design cost etc. Um where does this $350 get us and then who's in charge of the the scope and the design and all the rest? I know it's probably um a um consent like we had to do with the with the bridge um given the people who own various parts of it. Um I just would like to have more details on what this is really all about.

Right. And I think there's not much more to give you at this moment until we get that letter from DOT because I got the same questions. What are they going to require of us? They're going to be the project leader on the design piece at least for right now. What are they going to say in that in that letter? what's the ongoing financial commitment of of the town? And once we have that, we bring it to you, that's when we can have that deeper conversation about is this still a priority for you knowing that you're going to have to do this, this, and this or is this something that the DOT it's their route is going to take over that sort of thing. So I

Is it anticipated that the dollars for this project would be coming from the town or is this something that is coming from other areas to pay for? Mark's going to answer that. Yeah, I don't anticipate that, but this is this is much like in in in about 20 slides, you'll see that it this could be one of the projects because I believe it fits the criteria as a system enhancement. Um, with the transportation sales tax,

other dollars could also be earmarked from DOT. Um, there's there's impact fees in the future. There's there's all kind of different sources of transportation funds that could help fund that. But again, I don't know if that's a $10 million solution or a $5 million solution at this point. Um, I just know that it was asked. We talked about it as strategic plan. We talked about it at workshop. We've made this a priority. It's not the highest. I will say that there's there's some there's some folks in Cines that call once in a while um asking if this is as much a priority as as other things. I've I've kept my eye on the ball of the corridor and you'll see those new projects in the corridor accordingly. Yeah, thank you for that, Mark. I know you have and I appreciate you and staff and the work you've done on um on making sure that we stay focused on that corridor and those intersections where we have safety concerns. And then we know that Gumree Road is a particularly dangerous road and only increasingly becoming more congested and therefore um more safety concerns arising from that. So um if you'll keep me and all of us updated as this is coming along, I would appreciate more information. All right. Good. All right. So, for time sake, we've been here a couple hours. Mayor, how much longer do we have to get through this with y'all? Because I think I want to talk about Tiff sooner than later.

Well, um, an hour. Yeah. Two hours. I was two hours. Well, you know, the the release was 3 to six, so we'll we'll we'll adjust at six.

All right. Well, let's let's take a a look real quick at this. From a from a prioritization standpoint, you will see new projects number 57. I apologize. That's that's so so faded there. We won't do that again. But that's that's 57. That says the Follyfield Road pedestrian safety improvements. There's some good news there for a quarter million dollars of of our money of our of our town dollars source of source of dollars. I know Dave knows DOT has signed off on a pedestrian enhancement on their street, a reduction of speed and and I appreciate Miss Becker's help with this and and frankly consistent uh standard set of let's fix this pedestrian issue that we have because those time shares are almost built and that road is about to get busier and especially as we start trying to bring Islanders Beach Park online. I think this is a really good example of some work with DOT and we always haven't had that work with them. Um I think our our last larger project was Dylan to Beach City Road. Hope we're all proud of that. That was other people's money and some of our money and it was prioritized without knowing what the money source was. Right? I will remind us of that. But this is another good one that DOT has approved. So stay tuned for crosswalks, some speed humps, speed reduction, and a whole bunch of pedestrian improvements. And so this needs to remain a high priority here. Um break for everybody in this room.

Gum tree road. You can get up and go to the restroom if you need to. Mr. Brown, just take a break for everybody. Oh, uh Mr. Orlando, just so that I'm clear on the Follyfield endeavor. So we approved 75K last fiscal budget. Now you're saying to us to complete project it's going to cost us a quarter of a million. Yes. Yes. Okay. Perfect. Sorry. Should be clear on that. No. I just want to make sure because again I'm going back to trusting the process, right? Okay. This was a this was a priority. We agreed and now you're coming back to us saying, "Right, this is what it's going to cost to get it done."

Okay. Y

and that's a whole separate spreadsheet that these folks have for design, permitting, and construction on on this work, but that's that's going to show construction when we come to you at a budget. So, I'm excited. Right, Don? Sean. Good. All right. Here's some new some new ones. Gumree Road corridor improvements. We talked a lot about that. Um I think I'll keep it short. Ben said it best. um at the North Point groundbreaking. We need to put some investment in Gumree corridor, Squire Pope corridor, um Squire Pope and William Hilton Parkway intersection improvement, Spanish Wells and William Hilton Parkway intersection improvement. And I'll stop right there for a second. You will see that those four have some considerable dollars in there. Those would start the real design with I would say DOT but with Buer County somewhat involved in some design improvements and enhancements on those roads. The the Squire Pope corridor improvements um is not design money. I would say that's an outlier. Those are our RFBs, pedestrian crossings, striping, lighting, signage, all of that. the whole nine yards to make some pedestrian enhancements on Squire Pope very similar um at a smaller scale that you see Dylan to Beach City and what you will see on Folly Field. So th those we feel that we heard from you all we also heard from from each other um knowing that those roadways are important. We do not have those funds of course for the intersection and improvements. I'd say Gumree, we have some, but we don't have for Squire Pope or and Spanish Wells and in that large. It's my job postbudget to go meet with um and find some dollars at

the state for these roads, right? And and by allocating funds to these projects, it shows the state that we're serious about what we're trying to do and that we're going to be working to find additional funding. Yes. It also allows us to be in charge of what we are designing as an improvement where we take the um our destiny really in our in our own hands.

Can I just say thank you? I know I've been a little bit tough today, but I would do want to say that these areas and in that description of what you just said is going to happen is is is in my mind a perfect process. And these are the roads that we really should be focusing on um in terms of safety and congestion and traffic throughput, all of the rest. Um so I'm excited about these. Thank you. And thank you all as well. my feedback just quickly. I

I agree. I I approve of those additions. Um my only question is is is this separate are these separate projects separate fundings other than the um William Hilton Parkway master corridor master plan request? Yes, ma'am. Separate. Okay. Thank you. Connected but separate.

Gotcha. I'm hearing I guess I'm not hearing to take these off. These these were new. these these came up. This was based upon a lot of our work and a lot of your input and and really our our input as well. So um these along with the corridor are safety, quality of life, economic development. They cover a lot of different buckets and as Mr. crown said at least well I think it's nine years that conversation's been had but it's us putting it forward and taking the bull by the horns to to make something happen there um by working with the state and the county to find those additional funds it covers a lot of important roles may I just add this I was trying to figure out how to determine what priorities to set and I wrote down five elements to consider one is public safety. Make public safety improvements. Two, does it enrich the community such as our parks or beach access? Three, do we protect investments uh both public investments and private investments? Four, uh do we provide necessary appropriate equipment such as for fire and rescue? Five, do we honor the environment and the culture? And so when I look at these priorities, those are the things I'm thinking about. And you mentioned several of those with additions.

All right. So, here's here's a few other ones and and and a couple of them, while not the biggest priority, a little little bang for its buck, so to speak. Indigo Run roundabout is one of our last roundabouts that we haven't enhanced. And again, from a safety standpoint and a visual standpoint of not running through the roundabout with some some elevation and some enhancement, um we've placed for next year some facility work in a small capital project in that bucket. We also uh intend to add additional parking spaces, I'll call it at the at the old anchiladas parking lot. At that site, there's some capacity on site. We were trying to get to it this year, but frankly, we do not have the funds. Um, it it's an it's an expansion and I think it's it's needed. I forget what we can net from a number of parking spaces, not to put you on the spot. All right. So, it's it's considerable enough to to be a priority. Um, and then we have some it's a multi-year project. Uh, this this is this is new. It's a $500,000 signal mast arm replacement. Different than some of the maintenance. Some need some work and some need maintenance. I forget what the whole amount is. If we had it all, we would do it right away. Do you all remember what that total number is, Don? If Jeff was here, he'd he'd have it memorized.

What? Jeff, I call on you one time. All right, never mind. Should I know he was here? I I did have a question on that in regards to u under road rate run roadway easy for me to say uh programs number 24 signal system maintenance does mention traffic mast arms and you got $1.4 million there. So I didn't know if this was different than that because it both says mast arms and I second that question is it is different. It's it's additional mast arm replacement just to keep up the pace. One's maintenance and one's complete re replacement.

That is maintenance myself, but we can combine them. I think what this team's telling me though is is this has to be a specific project and and I think we're past the the the band-aid and the small repairs here and there. It's Yeah, it's getting to the point to where they're past their useful life and they're going to start to No, I I get that. I It just seemed like it might be the same thing because I saw the same words. You want to get them replaced before their future potential to fall. Is that what you're trying to say? Correct. We'll clean that up and and as you see this again, they'll be aligned

um with a with a number that's doable in my opinion. I think there's some funds we can figure out there. We say it's important yet we're rolling more forward. So, give me give me a moment on that. Mark, I would suggest that on the on the park program, Island Recreation, um unless anybody wants to really dive in deep on those items that maybe we just kind of move through them,

correct? Yeah. And we can do that. We we can scroll through a few pages. We're getting to the end of these project lists. Um me trying to do two screens. Yeah, there's Island Wreck. We have a subtotal at Island Wreck. I'll just fast forward to that. I think that's important. Um because Island Wreck is they do a great job and they're investing in the assets and I I think we're always wondering what that dollar is going to be. But I'm I will I will say that I'm always appreciative that they are investing in the assets that we have invested in. So, I I like that they seem to be the the the the keeper of that and you can see it. Last year was 511. This year is 770. Um, and they're not, to our best knowledge, not rolling anything forward. You will see in your budget amendment some a surprise, I would say an emergency fix to the building that we've helped build. Um, and so stay tuned on that.

Yeah. into the Kudos Island Rec Association. They have always operated with a 10-year uh CIP budget, you know, as to when everything needs to be replaced. And then if if the funding doesn't come through or there's a challenge and they they they shift amongst

we've got to just watch the the basketball court. You know, there's some spots on the floor. I won't say who I played basketball against and beat the other day, but uh he's hopefully he's listening. Um, but the floor is a little a little dead in a couple spots and they need to make those those improvements. So, all right. They blamed the floor. All right. So, with these new projects, we'll just fast forward to new projects. I I will say and to have some some great confidence, we are and we will be ready to go under construction with pickle ball complex. advance there. You guys can do that.

Yes. Left hand, right hand. Thank you, Don. Sorry, I didn't even though he sitting beside me, I didn't hear what. Mr. Sorry. He was telling me I didn't advance the screen. Discreetly. He was discreetly telling me I need to advance the screen. I thought you were saying we're going to advance the project. That's what I thought was hoping you were going to say it. It is advance.

It is a priority project. We will by the end of this fiscal year have permitting in place um all our work in place um and for a construction project very early in next fiscal year. We will also um move forward in that same line although a little bit of lag with the with the skate park and pump track. We will not right now um make that enhancement to Bristol Sports Arena simply from a a funding uh funding allocation. Um but I I do think that the skate park and we heard it I heard from you um and and we're at least for today's purpose asking that that be a priority.

Feedback. Yeah. And I think it's an opportunity for phasing. We've got a lot of big park projects going on with Patterson and pickle ball and and um I know these are all lovely and we'd all love to do them. And so for me it's just about prioritization. So if we needed to move some money from one year to another, it could be an opportunity. As an example, pump track first, skate park second. We'll take a look at that. Um they're all permitted together. Um, and but they're separate projects in our eyes. But there's also economies of scale.

If they're permitted, is there any expiration date on the permits for getting something done? I just wanted to make sure that skate park was put ahead of um anything. And I heard it a little bit backwards. And I say that um because we had a group of young people here who um it's so important to them and um so in honoring their request that we get to it. I think that skate park is is super important.

I will probably bring both to you because there's just as many that don't come to public comment that we've talked to that are looking forward to the pump track. I'm fine with that, too. But I don't want to forget those kids.

They're very special. Rough. Yeah. I just want I support the town manager bringing us both um to the point that he made, you know, we got excited about skate park because the young gentleman showed up. the youth in our community are focused on other things besides coming to town hall to talk to us. So when when there are projects that are meaningable to young people in this community, I think that we need to be pressing them forward and the pump track I think is one of those. So I'd like to see both of them. And as I recall, summer Olympics does include skateboarding. And so I'm looking forward to those young folks being um our representatives at the appropriate summer Olympics.

So while we're talking about them, I just can't help but say to your point, Mr. ground that, you know, to see young people take the time out of their schedules to come here prepared and to speak in front of in front of anyone, but to speak in front of us and ask and to present their cases for the why. Um, I just couldn't be more proud of our community and I just want to make sure that anyone and everyone hears that this town is incredibly impressed. I think it's very important that we listen to the youth of our community. Um it has happened in the past where the youth have stood up and they were not listened to and this is an opportunity to shine above above and beyond.

Mark sir getting there. um island phase one we are just getting what we've started this this this is a good point on on the opposite that we talked about earlier we talked about a lot of the design and then not having project project funds we talked about you know phase one as we know it is approximately $20 million to make that storm water pathway bathroom parking lot enhancement out there we don't have those dollars right Now, I would say that that that while that that is a priority and and I think in the past was a higher priority, um we have other priorities that have shifted that have taken us and pulled us away from this project. We have a little bit of work to do out there. I would call it to get it shovel ready. Um but no real construction dollars for next fiscal year.

Let me ask a question. Uh Mr. manager cuz I'm jumping ahead a little bit because I think we'll have enough time to talk about the funding toolkit and you have said tiff quite a few times today.

If if and I've never been through a tiff or as forming one before. I've been through a tiff after it had been created and understanding how to allocate funding. So, if you could just help us understand the process to getting our partners to agree to a TIFF, we have to have projects that are shown that we're going to do within our CIP as sort of a Yes. Yeah. Here's a good example. Thi this is a this is a a prime example of what I would say qualifying tax increment finance district project right and the potential partners not saying that they will be could be definitely us and definitely Buer County and definitely Buer County School District this could be an outdoor classroom a space for cross country it it could and it will improve storm water flow upstream and downstream right the the the biggest expense in time was figuring out why those ditches were so dry. Um, ditches aren't dry in heavy rains or something was flowing um in the wrong spot that we were understanding it it that it should be flowing to. So, there's so many different layers to that tiff. This is a great tiff project, but we have to we have to make sure, and I appreciate the the question, Main Street has to be a safe route to school. Mid Island has to be an outdoor classroom and a space for cross country, right? I children, our cross country meets were all off island far away. Why can't we run around that track five times and call it a cross-country race? So, there's some great opportunity there that I think um Buer County School District at least can consider. It doesn't have to they may or may not agree.

Yeah. And I concur on the um using TIFF dollars for a project such as this. I think it has a lot of potential and I like where you're going in regards to um the benefits for the school island track phase one. Okay, there we go. Patterson Park some roll forward. Um we're figuring out our encroachment permit out there that is going to be under construction this fiscal year. We're very close to the encroachment permit and the intersection alignment there. Um nothing new except if you go down to park contingency, we increase some park contingency uh a little bit because we are finding ourselves in some trouble um with some project overages or just solving problems as we're constructing facility. Um for time sake I'll answer any questions but you can see facility those are our priorities um really from a building improvement it is down from from last year fire hydrant expansion um fire and medical systems equipment um you can read the the highlighted area right priority priority project um replacement is majority of request of PP MET equipment and and and so on so forth. That's a big number. We've been knowing that's coming for a couple of years. Um it's time. So we're we're trying to make sense of this security and cameras connectivity that includes the work. Right. I'm on item 90 now. Thank you. Item 90. Uh we talked uh that's some that's some cameras. I will

say we had a horrific incident on this in our in our community a few days ago. The investment you made into flock cameras um solved that within the day. Um the license plate reader cameras solved that. And so I think this our improvements and our investments in technology um and and at Caliggney and and other places is important. Um as I'm looking at that scope, I've got to truly understand what this plug number is, the 1.2 up from 150. And so stay tuned on that. But I do believe it belongs at priority. We might have to find some dollars in in there if we don't have them all. and and I like to keep the tree planting uh program alive. Just continuation of that. Coastal Discovery uh they do a great job. Rex and team I would say are doing a better job year after year and our project managers are out there helping them um make those investments. They are the town and the community's assets and it is our our real responsibility to make sure that those assets uh are maintained well and and they're doing a great job managing and maintaining. I think we're doing a better job investing. So,

Bryson, sorry, I was going to want to make sure to wait till Mr. Orlando finished. Um, under facility equipment, usually I defer to staff on this totally, but I do remember number 84, town hall facility improvements. I do remember a lot of discussion we had. Uh, it seemed like sometime last year where the town council was concerned about the um the condition of these facilities here. Um, but I see that that's being put off. Um and and so I I didn't know whether we wanted to talk about that some more. Is there any new information as to why it's being put off because I think we thought it was a higher priority at the time. That's my question. Which what which number?

Yeah. Uh number 84, town hall facility improvements.

Our recent investment in fire rescue. Uh significant investment. We need to get in there. Um the investment that has been made at um office park, office park, what's it called? Office Park Road. What's in four office way? Four office way. Excuse me. It is getting late. Um and then the I will call it the beach operations center or whatever we call it at Wildwing Cafe. Those are significant investments. Um, we had also talked that this to do this building is a major lift and I would just say this to you all. While I would love to do this today, I'm not ready. We're not ready. We have other investments and other priorities. Um, we need to maintain this building and I think that there will be an opportunity to truly think through this in about 24 months when we can look at the geo debt millage once again as we talked to you about last time. And so that's been shifted as a priority is something that we aren't proposing at this time.

I just wanted to check with my colleagues. I know there was a lot of angst expressed the last time we talked about this and and I appreciate um the consideration by the town manager and his staff about where to put this but I just wanted to ask that question.

Yes. So the the dollars won't be attached but moving forward it will stay as whatever number it comes up to be so that we don't forget about it. Correct. Yep. Correct. Getting there. Got 102. Sean. Yeah. Any questions on any of this? We have Jonesville, Mitchellville, Freedom Park, Beach Operations, town refu and recycling. Um, new is the I would call it the soontobe old memory matters, soon to be Gulligi historic neighborhood CDC uh office space and and and headquarters. Um, we have to do some work at facilities building and in in yard building and grounds. I'm not sure that we will bring forward a a budget to you um fully in that sense. And something's wrong with that. got an old spreadsheet. So, excuse No, you're in the right one. I've got an old one where we fixed the the cells. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Don. Well, regardless, you can see up there um facilities and yard, what's that total number? 155.

That that number will be lower. As we propose a budget to you this year, it was asked that we consider and and their support um a small team for public facilities, folks that can improve storm water channels and and assets faster, quicker than outsourcing everything. That's going to take some some space and we don't have it. And so we're trying to make sense of our facility space in our yard. That's truly what's going on there. But when when are we going to have more conversations about that public facilities team, you know, uh building building of the team and, you know, understanding the time frame to get that return for those dollars who we would spend up front to get a program up and running. I think it's a that's an important aspect um especially when we hit the summer and fall months

as we build this year's budget. Right? So, I'm going to get together with all of you late March, early April and have these conversations and I will propose that uh I have and and to Dave's point earlier, the budget just got proposed. I've been working with Shawn and Sean's been working with Derek for some time. They they've proposed and just full disclosure more folks than I can support at this time both structurally as well as financially and and we haven't had that conversation yet. Mr.

Yes, thank you for asking that question. And that's what I was going to ask. Uh because we not only have the facilities, we have equipment in here as well. We've got increase in employees and uh Dave did such a nice job with the short-term rental piece, laying out all the expenses and making a business case for that. So that's kind of what I'm looking for with the public works as well. As we're talking about this, what keeps me up at night is trying to figure that out while we're flying the airplane over the ocean. Um, so I have to make some decisions on how I bring that forward to you. And and where where I'm at right now is probably bringing that forward to you in January as a budget amendment as an as an aside and not as part of this massive budget with all these moving parts. I I just need to get through it.

This is one of those items that we've really got to talk about. um because it's it is a core service that is becoming more expensive every year because we're relying upon outside services to do that. Um, so we want to make certain that whatever we're doing, we're not creating, you know, the creep, so to speak, making it bigger and bigger and bigger, but we've got a a small organization that's taking care of of the the storm drainage and drainage systems that maintain a a better uh cost flow. The startup costs is more than we can with with ease figure out right this second. And so we we have to and I haven't had enough time. Obviously, I'm not making excuses. I just have not had enough time to make those final decisions in the budget yet. That's that's my next 30 days.

Perfect. Miss Becker.

Um and along with all of the other great conversation surrounding this, um I'd like to see where um and how each of the communities on the island um get to be get to take advantage of a public works. as we know, the county, the state, others own our roads and and ditches, etc. And so we have communities that never get to um be involved in any of the storm water discussions. And I think as I've said probably a hundred times, it is it should be part of this conversation now. We need to know if we're asking people to accept that we're developing a public work department. um who who's going to be able to benefit from that? Is it every resident on this island or is it just some? And so I'd like to see that all broken down by how we make sure that those dollars and that effort um is fairly distributed and and again, you know, we should we should we should try to own our roads. Um, we should ask if we can have them, ask what condition they're in and ask what dollars can follow them and uh make the assessment of of whether or not it's smart, all of them or some of them, but certainly um everyone should be able to take advantage of good storm water. And we have neighborhoods certainly those in Ward 4 that flood on a regular basis. storm water program is a big big conversation with our county partner to make certain that the funding would be you know we would get that funding to help support this program

100% I absolutely agree it's a it's an important conversation that needs to be dealt with and I know our town manager and staff and we'll be able to do that

I appreciate your question I'll answer it because it's it's important um if if we hired four people and the Bobcat and fixed our storm water drainage, it would apply, right? We would fix the same this the same level of asset management we would be focused on on day one in that program. Let's call it July one if you approve that in the budget as we are today. Right? So, it it is not going to be a a different scale. We would have to scale into that. I think that if we hired three or four people as part of facilities that ran the Bobcat rather than called the Bobcat and fixed the pipe rather than called someone to fix the pipe cost overtime, speed to solution over time and scaled over time because what what I am battling with is expenditures are scaling. we just we just can't control them as well. So on day one, we would have three or four people. On day 712, I think we would be better at it and understand our our cost a lot better. And so the simple way to do this is hire three people in the budget, four people in the budget, someone that knows that work, not someone that just oversees that work, and and get on with business. I've been in it before, and you've got to you've got to grow it. You can't just go from zero to 100.

If if first of all, I was going to say I I appreciate you're looking at moving this uh forward on the calendar. I think that's a a good plan. I I think there's a lot to consider before we would include this in the in the budget for this process as of June 30. Um and then secondly, the kind of cost analysis you were just describing is what I would ask for and that is uh to compare it to do we do it and al pardon me or do we continue to contract it because I think we have enough data to make that comparison. Um and then um thirdly the source of funding would would the funding for this program all come from storm water fees or would some of it come from different buckets as part of the cost analysis? Yeah, with with all respect that I think that's a my job. I I've done a cost analysis. It's the same sources and uses that we would typically have. It's just a matter of and from your policy standpoint, it's budget and from a policy standpoint would be to add that type of program inhouse um because it's equipment purchase over time, right? So, we've we've done that. we have that which is why I've started to wrap my head around because I know the kind of questions you'll ask and I don't want that to be at the first reading of budget or the 2 by twos 3 weeks before budget. Um I would I would almost think if you have this many questions and and want to know these types of answers at this level of detail, this cannot be done during the budget even though I'd like to.

That's okay. I just wanted to say thank you. I know you can do it. All right, we're Yeah, I'm I'm gonna try to help Mr. Desimone out in his absence.

Um, and he he has uh he's been beating his drum um a lot and know if Mr. Orlando is saying that he wants to bring it as a budget amendment in January, um I trust that that's good timing. Um, and I'm not as interested in, although it's going to be important that we have it, the business case. Okay. I'm not as in um interested in that as I am what the town currently is in possession of now have to contract out. I think understanding that will help us as we're making a decision as to where we scale. Okay. Um, and again to to something that um, Mr. Desimone would probably say if he was here, it's going to cost us more the more we wait because we fall further and further behind as far as the deferred maintenance and whatnot. So, I just want to make sure that we bring that out and and and he said and and and way the way we look at it, the way we're looking at that, it's a it's a service level as much as it's a cost analysis. We can't control those costs the way we want to. All right. Um, what number are we on up there? Sean Owen. So, for time's sake, you've had this packet. These are the storm water projects. I would like to fast forward through them. We have enough in our fund balance and not going below the threshold of our fund balance reserve to take care of fiscal year 27. This is our last year I'll be able to say that at at this pace and at this appetite come to think about for midy year as we start thinking about and I intend to talk with you all and and talk a little

bit more about it at finance committee about what a borrow for storm water would look like and what it could pay for in that five-year look. I also think it's important to state why, you know, this is the last year we'd be able to say that because we've been accuing acrewing funds and haven't been providing the services that need to be provided to fix the the the systems that need to be addressed. And there's such need. I'm glad we're actually increasing our spend in regards to supporting all of the important projects that are on this list.

Great. And I'm very proud of the team. they they have figured out and I give a lot of credit to Sean Gillan as as the leader here who I lean on um to help his team start thriving as we invest in the storm water. So big difference with you here Sean. Thank you to everybody. All right, where are we? Go through storm water and get through it. our fleet. Um you'll see up here uh a ladder another ladder truck replacement and we talked about this through some years and that would be a lease but we have to show the the cost on year one

a lease correct D. Did we just get some deliveries?

This was sooner. This this got here sooner than we thought. Correct. Right. All right. 53 land. So soft costs in land. More of the same. What a tremendous year we've had investing in land the last year. So um next funding toolkit. Tag them in. Right. 20 minutes. You promised 45 and um No. No.

So mayor, can can I ask a question? Maybe set the table. So, of this, I'm looking at the total new projects, 49 almost $50 million, but of that 50 million, as I understand, about 105 comes from dedicated enterprise funds. So, we're looking for 40 million. Do I have that right? Correct.

Okay. And of that 40 million um I'm looking at gosh page number I think it was 32 in in this handout. What do we have available? Um so I'm going back Mr. Bird to your sheet number 32 um funding sources. So we take out storm water and beach preservation um as those dedicated funds. So, of those real estate transfer, geo bond, discretionary, other, I think we're taking out other as well. I'm I'm just looking at where can we look for um what did I say? $40 million of what we have right now.

Well, I appreciate Miss Bryson trying to simplify it, but I guess I'm looking at this a little bit differently because There's some pretty hefty projects in here that we don't have dollars associated with, i.e. the corridor project that we're master planning. So I I sort of feel like the conversation needs to be a little bit bigger than just that. Okay. So that we can give some direction as far as is Mr. Orlando going to start spending time on tiff. I mean, if we want to get to some of this stuff in some of the areas, then the answer is probably yes. Okay. Um, and that's a different strategy than us looking at our debt millage rate in a year from now, right? So, I I think it's a little different than than just that, right? Yes.

Maybe there maybe there at least two or three categories then. One is where do we get money for the projects we just talked about of about 40 million. And then where do we get money from other projects that we're going to talk about now? And then the third bucket is what do we put on the list in case the county's um sales tax referendum passes in the fall. So three buckets to think about in funding. I I just wanted to set the table for we just left a page where I need to find 40 million and where do I find that? Okay.

Gotcha. May I and part of that conversation should not be lost that just because it's in the document just because we've discussed it here today doesn't mean that we are moving forward with with the mall and go back to our you know grocery shopping cart analogy again where we started and where there was some confusion earlier about the purpose of today. I do not want it to be suggested and accepted here today that just because those are on the list and that's the total that those are the dollars we're looking for. There needs to be some putting back on the shelf. It just does or scaling back um in the process of this conversation. Uh I concur and then also want to understand you know as we moved uh to $121 million in our uh fund you know how will the rating agencies feel about this significant change in our fund balance.

You we've had discussions with them on well not the agencies but our adviserss of use of fund balance is appropriate. I would say. So, um I you know I I didn't go to a dollar amount floor if you will, but just you know utilizing that for investments um would not would not cause us any rating

not there. Yeah. to Miss Tunner's point, I think the the number that was not included in the slide um was the set aside that is policydriven for our fund balances. That is not included in that 120 that you're projecting. Am I correct? Yeah. But I think displaying that number is important as we're having these conversations because that's what really helps with the bond ratings if I'm correct. Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree. But one of the reasons we got bigger better bond ratings is because of the amount of money that we had. So,

well, that's a great segue into this conversation because that's what we're going to be in essence talking about is cash management or the use of fund balance of or payo or pay as you go methodologies uh obligation general obligation debt and uh grants are are the three things that you're currently having available to you uh that you've already done. So that's in that's in play right now and you all had a conversation about that and and to reiterate some of the things Mark said earlier, your conversation is very helpful to Don and I know because we're taking in a lot of input as we hone this CIP plan. So thank you very much. Now what in the future opportunities are there? The Buer County uh transportation sales tax referendum is really going to be a a big decider on some of these unfunded projects that we have out there like the William Hilton Parkway master plan uh projects and how that rolls into our plan. Tax increment financing, we're going to dig into that here in just a minute. Uh grants uh that are available. uh South Carolina earmarks that's going to this the state and saying hey we need you guys need to contribute to this because you know people from all over the state are using this facility uh federal earark earmarks um they don't like to use that word earmark but you know they went away back way back when they're now back in a different form

they're right but it's it is what it is uh storm water use utility fee bond uh Mark had mentioned earlier uh future geo debt uh or the de the the geo debt millage that you currently have available to you, public private partnerships much like you have with with the housing uh devel development that we just had the groundbreaking on and and new geo debt uh capabilities that you have. We're not advocating for any of these things. But we're just saying this is what you have available to you and it helps you get over what you know the lumpiness of capital projects because they'll come along in time and no matter how much you try to firm all of a sudden there's going to be something that's dropped in your lap that you got to figure out a way to deal with. Um, for county sales tax um, we have uh gone through our our project list about what could fit the criteria for the uh, the Buer County sales tax, transportation sales tax. They just sent out a some clarification on what that means. And I don't do you have the three criteria in front of you? I I I do not.

Yes, Mayor Council. Um

the 24th of February and I have an email from Jared dated a few few days ago, Friday, where he has written to us and as you know it's on your calendar. They are branching out across the the region and having planned meeting dates at specific locations. Our meeting date here is March 11th here in the town council chambers. Um and at that time they have asked to present the projects right and they say to share project requests with as much detail as we have available location limits purpose need and supporting info and any prior estimates or concepts. Right? So that's where we get into some of that work we're doing. The county also has two on call engineering consulting firms that can assist us with scoping and giving us some cost estimates. So the goal today would be to just hear your feedback on on these projects that are listed up there. Um and those project criteria they we were asked to develop a list with three project categories. Doesn't have to meet all three. It doesn't have to be in all three or could be in one. But they say widening projects. I'm not sure I agree with that. I think it's a system enhancement is what that that means to us. Safety and intersection improvements and resurfacing and dirt road paving projects. So, they would like a project list presented to them. What I'm proposing to you today is that you take a look at this list. Um, give it your blessing and some direction and that on March 10th at the council day that I bring to you a resolution to clarify your collective project um, selections, right? not that you would support the referendum, but that if the referendum passes, these would be the projects that you would want at least considered. Um, and then March, that's March 10th, and the very next

day, we could confidently present that resolution to Buer County in this very room. So, from a logistic standpoint, that's why we have those prepared up there that way.

So, comments from council. Um, one of the things I think we should ask for is um that if the sales tax rep referendum passes and there are projects identified for Hilton Head that that money be escroed and separated and given to the town of Hilton Head for prioritization and initiation of the work. You know, one of the biggest beefs of the last was that um you know, the work was not completed and we did not have any control over the dollars. And so I'd like to see that uh issue be overcome through structuring it a different way and and being uh having the opportunity to have them the dollars moved over to Town of Hilton Head. And there'd probably be some procedures that would need to be done, etc. But um I think that would uh address people's concerns uh because we know when we have money we spend money right so

absolutely right we and I would propose that we add that as a whereas a recital and a resolution that you you would consider with your project list so beer countyy's clear to to that point um through Saloko and the other mayors they've all had the same comments from other municipalities so that has been a a topic of conversation on um protecting the trust so to speak. So yes, I agree with that. I agree with Miss Tuner and it ought to be a part of our resolution in our list and under the conditions um not just in the wherees but in the conditions like

well I think that is a um a good guardrail to try to put in place. Um, I want this resolution or whatever would move forward to be very very clear in the way it's worded so that it leaves absolutely no question that um we are only presenting potential projects and are not in any way, shape or form endorsing or educating or informing our residents about this. Um, and and the wording should be very specific and very clear with regard to that. But the guard rails, while I I like the lockbox idea that Melinda, you you've come up with, um, I like it in the conditions, uh, Paty, that you've stated, but I I think it needs to go further. Um, we don't have the information that we need to. They haven't told us how long it would be for, how much money they would intend to raise, how much money typically comes out of Hilton Head. I think mayor, you said the other day it's 68% of the dollars raised um last time came from Hilton Head. Um, I want to know how much of that money comes back to Hilton Head and um, and in terms of uh, what's the so that percentage back to Hilton Head would be important for us to know. Um, I'm sure there would be push back. You know, it's not going to be a one for one, but what is the percentage that we expect to get back from Hilton Hood? Um and so those are some of the in and I find it interesting that they've given us categories um system enhancement as I guess we've re re um titled it. I don't want there to be any mistake in terms of whatever their definition was with their wording

versus what our definition is for system enhancement and that it's just not one and the same but better words um road resurfacing and I think Mark you said intersection work. Okay. Well, um, you know, the guard rails here are incredibly important, um, for Hilton Hood and I believe for our residents, um, as they're thinking about what their own decisions will be. Um, the language to make sure that it's utterly clear that these are the projects we would be interested in at a particular ratio back to us needs to be perfectly clear. And the fact that we are not endorsing anything with regard to their referendum needs to be perfectly clear.

Ask a lot of questions that I don't have. I know you don't. I'm just making a really broad statement because before I would ever agree to this or or help anyone else think that this is a good idea. Um those are questions that need to be in that document. This is our proposed project list. Do you agree that was Yeah.

Yes. I 100% agree. Um, and I agree with as you put together a proposed resolution for us that you include Miss Tunner's lockbox guard rails or whatever. Just weighing in on that. Okay. Um, I I also want to make sure that the public is hearing this part of it. The town of Hilton Head sits in a different position as we're talking about this referendum than last because we've identified these as priorities. We've even done some cost estimates ourself. All right? So, we're working and I just want to make sure we understand the risk in this, okay? Because if it fails, then the county is left with an option to bond to get stuff done, which means that there's probably going to be some adjustment in millage rates to do so. Okay? And in that case, I'm fearful that we are going to get left holding the bag again because if they make a bond, it doesn't mean that they're going to spend that money on Hilton Head, right? So, I just want us to be mindful of that as we're having these discussions. Okay. And the other thing is I I would ask if council is okay with Mr. Orlando having a conversation with our appointed representative to the committee about this project list ahead of time because they're already talking amongst each other and I want to make sure that um that he is well prepared with what we have as far as expectations are concerned.

Great. Oh, great points and it and it really aligns with what Miss Becker is saying because what what is being pointed out that's why I say I I wish I had that that confirmation from them that they they agreed to that. But that that has to be Mr. Stanford's first order of business as a reminder because as we put those projects on this table as a priority or a proposed priority. Um I think I think it's important that all of that all of those good questions aren't just at the wayside and that our list is just a list, right? So keep it simple, but that's in a big picture. It's important we all make sure Glenn and the county council is aware of Hilton Head support. violence.

And I guess I would take it one step further to there are um five categories, two subcategories there that um that we think of some way, right? So we put all of those out. They're all agreed, best of intentions. Um, the referendum passes and then of the points, the bullet points up there, they pick the ones that aren't the ones I mean, they're all important, right? But aren't the ones that we need to get done, that we should have gotten done nine years ago, right? And and so we're still out there scrambling trying to find 50 $122 million to to fund. Um, does that does that make sense? That's a real concern for me. So, there's a lot up there. Maybe it's too much because of that. It gives them too many options. But, um, just another thought and consideration.

Yes, sir. Um, first of all, I agree with Miss Becker that the resolution that we would consider make it clear that we're not endorsing nor supporting the referendum. um that this is providing a list only. Um and then secondly um uh I think I mentioned before that our list might ought to come from our major thorough affair plan that we had worked on and it looks as though several of these items do. Uh Main Street certainly was one of them. Cine um and then Chaplain corridor was part of those segments. And so my question is are there any other segments from that major thorough affair plan we were working on? not say we were working on because we never adopted it that might ought to be included in this list and and I guess the staff has looked at that. So I guess my question is to them. Um, and then the the last thing, and I meant to add this before that uh request, is that in the resolution, we ought to uh request that the county council appoint a committee to make sure that the projects get done afterwards because that's the thing that the school board did and has been successful and they have not yet done that. And that ought to be a condition of our list.

Do you have a comment? Um I I I would also state that to Mrs. Becker's point um we provide a list but it's also it needs to be worded and or to be used for matching funds for projects because that helps keeps the projects on the list. Um so I would just throw that in there however that would be worded. Great feedback. Great. All right, let's keep going. Sean,

we will bring this back to you in a resolution that that hopefully captures everything you just said for clarity on the 10th and for discussion and and and proposal to Buer County on the 11th and before then I will talk with Mr. Stanford or Sean will they're they're aligned. Okay. I just want to thank you for all the work that you've been doing in regards to this because you're getting a date that is not that far away, but you're very well prepared for it. And so, we are very fortunate that you have been moving this work forward so that we could be in a position to be ready for this very important meeting. Thank you. And it's it's the team. I've never had a better one.

Awesome. All right. Now, tax financing. Well, you told me to leave it. Keep it at 45 minutes. So, I will Oh, sorry. Yeah. Um, for the sake of time, I'm just I'm posing this to council. Um, the tiff uh discussion, we sort of tip tipped our toe in the water on this. I think we need to just be very direct with Mr. Orlando. Do we want him to spend time on developing it or not? Without without going through the overview. I'm just

I am very supportive of a tiff. I know that it takes quite some time to put it together, 18 months or so, and the sooner we get started, the sooner we'll be in a position to have funds available. I think you've already identified a few uh major projects uh off top of mind uh that would be appropriate for the tiff and we can uh during this time um you know identify any others that might be there. I agree. Bryson.

Yes, I agree. I don't think we need the back. Thank you for the background data. Um, and I was going to ask timing wise, I'm glad you put up this because I wasn't sure whether it's 24 to 30 months. I hear Miss Hunter saying 18 months. Um, right, right, right. Um, so just some sort of time frame for how long it might take because I think that's important part of our consideration uh in moving forward is looking at what projects will we fund however many months ahead. um would be covered by tiff because some of them might be delayed if we rely upon tiff and it takes x amount of months. So that's that's one of the questions I would have. Um and then the other important piece of information I think we need to know and and the finance administrative committee we talked about this and looking at the last of the tiff money before uh uh that I think we've come to the end of it now. Um then um what happened with that tiff? Because some money was planned for the north end of the island that was never funded. And I think we need a little bit of a a rearview look to see what happened and why so that we don't make the same mistake going forward. And I don't mean we need to do a year's analysis of it. I mean, we need some sort of at least um down and dirty assessment of that so that we won't make the same mistakes again or same promises for sure.

Any comments? I support too. Have you started yet? I'm in support of Yeah. I What I need from you is is is what I have right now. supportive tiff aligned with the projects that are already programmed and this is the critical path and you know me I've been here five years now um just celebrated that

I did and I am not going to sit in a public room and tell you how long but I will tell you what the critical path is because I don't know how fast you all can make decisions let alone how the Buer County and Buer County School District I think that the critical path's very important and that this is priority of ours. Mr. Gillan has put together a bunch of TIFF districts. Um, a blessing and and appreciative that he's here with Dave, but it's going to take some work with y'all, with your with your colleagues, too. So, let's let's know this. This will be a big part of our next 12 to 18 months to bring this forward to you.

And so, all I want to say today is first and foremost, thank you. um very much. This is great feedback. Um I like this extra step. Full disclosure, Miss Tunner asked me about this last year and I probably threw my hands in the air. I was like, "Oh my gosh, how are we going to get all this done?" And if Dave wasn't here, I wouldn't be able to sit in here today with you confidently. Um so I appreciate that. Um I'm going to work over the next few days of February and all of March to balance our budget, all six funds. Um, early April we'll coordinate. Um, I know that I'm trying to get all of this done to to figure out schedules by the end of March, but I can't guarantee that I'll have a balanced budget by then. But we can at least have some some preliminary for for some of you. And then most likely first week of April, we will talk like we always have, right? Full disclosure, one-on-one conversations about the budget that I've prepared to propose for you all. It's your budget and I'm honored to present it to you. Um May 12th is the first reading of council. I will put the budget in the packet. It's a little different like I did last year but different than years prior. We will put the budget in the packet um a week ahead of time. And then two public workshops in in May 14th and 19th and then a final reading on June 9th. Both readings will be a public hearing advertised as well. Um, and I've we'll we'll figure all this out in the next 70 days.

Now, my question is, what about the CIP projects? Is there any work going to be done on that? So,

we've had a conversation. There are different points of view. Um, again wanting to understand what it looks like with the um like revenues, min expenses and our fund balances, all of that just and again we use up the majority of our um opportunity. What does that do for the following year in the out years? So, I just When does that happen? Does that happen in one-on- ones or two by twos?

Well, I'm going to lean on Mayor Perry to give me some direction collective to council today because that is why we're here and I'm hearing and and I do not propose that we do this one- on-one because you have a different perspective than uh other folks and and one's one one person isn't even here. We we've showed you, right? We've said today this is a priority list. I I already know that based upon what I'm hearing and also what I know to be true, I can compress the expenditure and CIP for next year because we won't get to it. Like I said, this is a preliminary priority and a preliminary budget. I took some notes. I'm also good at understanding where you are individually and collectively. I know that I need to present a budget to you compressed to what we have today. You asked some great questions. Dave has shared that with you that the preliminary ending fund balance in 27 is up on that screen. Do we have the dollars? Miss Bryson asked that earlier. Where would we find it? It's right there. Right. So, I believe we've answered that question. I believe I keep hearing that. I believe we've provided the answer. I keep hearing the question, though. It's it's right there. And and I feel like this is very transparent and is very direct. and I apologize if it's too direct, but I I want you to see that because it is above and beyond the fund balance policies you have. What I will present to you this year though, and and Dave knows this, and I appreciate that he feels the same way. I will present to you an increase in almost all of our fund balances. All of the reserves, we have opportunity to make those increases and afford some projects. I don't think that the the very innovative entrepreneurial team is going to build all that project. Um, and I think that I have some opportunity to push some things out to your point earlier, push them out, not not cancel them. I've just got to figure this out after today. But if you have some

collective, Mayor Perry, if you have some collective thought for me, I'd be appreciative. Are there any projects that you don't want to see move forward as a priority in 27 that can be pushed off into 28? or further. I think I provided feedback along the way. Uh and again, a a lot of it uh feedback along the way as well as if we have money associated with uh design where we don't think that we're going to be able to have funding for the actual development of the project. Does that provide an opportunity?

Um agree. I think that um at the time it is now to open that can of worms um we'll be here for another 3 hours. I think we have provided or tried to provide that feedback along the way and happy to to to do it again but I I just don't think now's the the right time to do it. And I am happy though to hear uh Mark you say that you will be bringing forward an increase in reserves. The reason we are in the position that we are in this town is because of the long-standing um policy of um putting those funds in a reserve um and to increase it um continuously. And I'm very proud of the work that I've done in almost eight years to making sure that we got to where we are today. And I don't want anyone to misinterpret seeing these numbers. And those are the dollars that we have to use. Those monies ought to be um carefully um looked over, increase in reserves made to continue the tradition that we have here. That puts us in the good financial position that we enjoy with AAA um ratings and the rest. Emergencies happen and you have to be able to pay for them. Um, so I hope maybe maybe may may or may people should put down a little list and I don't know how you achieve what it was that you just asked us to do it at this time, but I don't want to see all these dollars just spent because the money is there. Um, and thank you Mark for saying you'd bring back the increase in reserves. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what will happen is parking team will sit down and take a look at everything that has been planned out and go, you know what, we've got a I'm just going to use generic dollar amounts. We got $100,000, you know, allocated for this project, but we're probably only going to use 50,000 for design because it's going to come later in the year. So, what is the the time frame that things come around? So, I

think that we'll, as he said, we'll see it compressed um and more in step with Dave's help and the financial side and being realistic as to what can actually be accomplished. You know, not have had a CIP program in play, um build one and to get it operational like this takes time. But we also want to make certain that we're not halting projects that we're trying to that we we're trying to move forward that we need to earmark some dollars for because it shows the support that we're giving to staff to go to to state officials to get additional funding. So,

makes sense. And just look at I'm just look at the one example what the county wrote to us and said, "Hey, we want to know your project list and we know you want to know your opinion of probable costs and your you need to know your scope and your price estimates by the time you talk with us." So, there's some of that work and that's what I took away today. I I think if we're going to go chase those dollars and really look hard for them, we'll continue on some of that design. I heard some commonality on that on the Gateway Corridor different than some other projects. And so, that's kind of how I've been reading today. Stay tuned. I didn't mean to interrupt you, ma'am.

No, you didn't. I was going to interrupt you. I apologize. Um, what I didn't point out and I want to make sure that I point out is that up to $26 million and thank you for adding the words up to um and that bond. It it was really I was very definitive in how I wanted that money to be used which was to um certainly fire and rescue etc. But um for land acquisition, again, it goes back to our number one strategy of managing growth. And um it makes me anxious to see it here on this list. And something that we didn't discuss in any detail today is um land acquisition and buying density other than the $250,000 that's kind of a placeholder in there. So, um, moving forward, it remains my very strong, um, priority that those dollars are used to buy as much land, as much density as we can on this island so that we can manage the growth of this island. Um, we all agreed that that was our number one priority in the strategic plans. So,

may I just point of clarification? Yeah, and I I hear you, Miss Becker. Land acquisition is part of the CIP, which is why it's shown up here. Just for for full disclosure, I'm not advocating to use it for projects different than land. I just I think it's it's healthy for you all to see it and know that it is available for your capital program. Land is a big part of that. That is our that is our largest investment in our CIP program by far.

Thank you for that. Um, I I think that we probably should have spent some time perhaps on on identifying, you know, land and not waiting for people to just come to us and ask us if we want to buy that land. We talked about economic development opportunities, etc. And that is so critically important as we sit here. Um, it is so critically important. I don't want to belabor the subject, but I'll probably say it again later. I look all the time. Please let me know if you see something you like. I've I've got a few that I want to bring in sooner than later. Been talking.

Yeah. Um well, I guess I want to react to that the comment about the land. And I think it's important that we continue to be aggressive in that, but I'm hopeful that we're not trying to buy people's land that's not for sale. That that's important for me to say out loud. Okay. Um secondly, I appreciate this exercise. I appreciate the way we've laid out the uh the situation as to where we are and where we're going. I guess my closing comment to my colleagues and to Mr. Orlando is let's continue to be nimble. I think that's important for us to recognize this because like to have a crystal ball. We like to have a plan set out, but here we are spending the last bit of tiff money that folks way before us decided to get. Okay. So, let's stay nimble. I think that's that's a that's a characteristic of Hilton Head that has helped us to continue to be sustainable, helped us to continue to be leaders. Uh I think the nimble piece is just so important. person.

Um, thank you, mayor. Um, so taking anything off the list, I think I heard the town manager suggest that the public works team, the small team, um, that maybe looking that as a budget amendment. So, we could take out the um um the fixing up the land cost and the the fleet uh portions off of the current list and set that aside for a budget amendment would be my suggestion would be what I would take off at this point is what I'm going to say. Um and then the other thing is when we come back, I'm going to go now through the planning commission um and also listen to bike walk before the planning commission meeting. Um and then um when it comes back to us, the source of funds for the capital projects would be important for me to see that that one page we keep turning back to because some of them are dedicated like storm water and beach preservation have to go for certain things. Um but from which of those other funds would we be taking money to pay for the CIP?

A couple of general uh points. First, I think we should recognize how fortunate we are in a Hilton Head community to have the kind of resources that we have to be able to do major capital projects of the scope that we are considering. There are probably very few communities not just in South Carolina but across the country that can do what we do. So, we are very fortunate in that regard. The second point is many of these capital projects can be looked at as investments in the future. We uh received a an an award by one of the leading travel magazines about being the best island uh beach community to reside in. U we want to be able to continue to say that indefinitely into the future. And in order to do that, we need constantly to improve what we have here on this island. If we don't, some other community is going to to do it and and get ahead of us. So to maintain that type of reputation into the future, I think it's helpful to look at all these as investments in the future.

All right. I think it's great. Um, you got anything else you want to bring out, add up? I want to say thank you for your for your time. Um I know that public comment or or whatever, Kim, but I I just want to say to town council, I think this is a great added step. Um please call me and talk with me. I'm not saying I don't want to talk direct and and one at one at a time. I just think that this is a very healthy start for me as I prepare CIP and and appreciate appreciate you. Appreciate the the public that has been here this long as well and and to my team.

Absolutely. Great. Uh we'll now move on to public comment. First we'll take u those who wish to speak regarding today's workshop item. Um um and we invite those speakers to address non agenda items. But as a reminder, each member of the public will who is recognized to speak is limited to three minutes in accordance with the town of Hilton Head Island Municipal Code Title 2 Chapter 1 Section 2-5-70. Please state your name and address for the record before beginning your remarks. Comments must be directed to council as a whole. There will be no allocation or transfer of speaking time to another individual. We ask that all speakers remain mindful and respectful of everyone present. Kim, do we have anybody signed up to speak on the agenda items?

We do. Give give us just a moment. For some reason, the timer is not showing up on the screen. We've got it on our screen, but not that one. All right, that works. Okay. Um Jim Hall,

Jim left. Okay. Frank Babel, let's see. Oh my god. F first of all, I'd like to piggyback a little bit on what uh Steve said. Congratulations to you folks. Thanks. Thanks a lot. Yeah, what Steve said. I also my uh hearing aid broke today, too. So, that was really good. Um and thanks again for coming here. You guys did a gals did a great job. Um when I was working um in the financial area, we did a lot of project work. Um and we always looked at the project and see what an impact it was on the community or the business or whatever. And I think it's important to look at what has happened as a result of some of the decisions you folks have made and we think about what's going. So, I'd like to go through a few of those things to get kind of get you like what the what what's this biking thing? Is it doing anything for our community? The first thing is jobs. 25 years ago, we had less than a dozen bike shops and a promising pathway system. Hotels didn't rent bikes. Today, there are about 35 bike rental companies and a dozen or so hotels are also in the bike business. That's a lot of jobs. And that's a lot of bikes. This proliferation of bikes is remarkable.

According to estimates from the chamber, approximately a million people ride bikes on our island during their visit here a year. While traffic congestion is a common complaint, the pathway systems help alleviate this issue and helps meet the transportation needs of commuters needed kids and and uh people. Imagine what it would be like without the bikes. Biking has since become one of the top amenities on the island. Families often ride together and reconnect because of past experiences. For those who chose to live here, casual recreation and exercise biking are central activities. A recent sea capine survey rated rated the ocean and biking together as the same as the top attraction in sea pines. the RBC heritage. 10 years ago, you couldn't get in the gates. I mean, no way, no how. We're recruiting now enough people to bike four to 5,000 people. Our sponsor is Duke Power. Safety remains our top priority. Investments in pathways and related facilities have greatly enhanced safety for cyclists. Despite lacks enforcement, low compliance with traffic laws, and a large increase in ridership, bike car crashes remain low. In recent years, pathway and roadway bike related fatalities have essentially disappeared. Disappeared. They used to be about two a year. They've disappeared. However, the rise of bike usage, crowded pathways, Mr.

Your time is up, sir. Conservation and gaps in the system reve investment needs and time's up. My glasses. I reset I reset the clock for you at that time. Pardon me. I reset the clock for you at that time when you got your glasses. Oh. Oh, thank you. Well, thank you. We appreciate your ongoing support. Thank you. and we wish you the very very best of luck. Okay, don't forget the bikes. They did a lot for this community and they will continue and the Mr. Babel and the Thank you. and the POA also Mr. Babel same we do skip Hogland.

As a reminder, this is on the agenda. Pogland windmill harbor. The town and chamber are partners in crime. You are all illegal chamber members and some attended the chamber Kool-Aid ball. You were funded by our tax money. If you invested $4 million with Skip Hogan and I refuse to provide you with accounting on how your money was spent, all profits generated and also violated our contract. Illegally, criminally used your money. Would you write me another $4 million check? Or would you sue my butt off and have me arrested? Only three possible reasons. You voted unanimously to allow this chamber fraud and abuse to continue. Either you're incompetent, you're corrupt, or you allowed yourselves to be silenced and put in a box. I do not believe any of you are incompetent. Exception Alex Brown, finance chair, for good reason. He knows as much about doge audits as I know about beauty salon. Please

address council as a whole. We need to put CP We need to put CPAs on this committee ASAP.

You need to fix what you have done. You have become a disgrace and a public embarrassment to this community, your friends and family who trusted you. It's not about rigged votes. It's about the law. If you have any honesty left, I expect you to stand up right now and apologize to this and and to this committee and that the and to fix the chamber and the a taxf funded DMO so it operates properly and legally under recognized national gold standards. I believe we can all agree in this room that this level of illegal operations, state and federal violations, tax evasion, and millions of chambers taking our a tax money to Canada for local business uh versus supporting local business to develop our community DMO websites, Hilton Island.org and Hilton Headgolf Island is ludicrous and unsustainable. Our community expects this council to honor their campaign promises and their fiduciary responsibilities. If you are unwilling to do that, you should resign. You should be booted and allow others to lead. Tamara Melinda, the town is in violation of my foyer. Are you going to force Cold Train and Orlando to comply? Yes or no? The chamber has already violated the new contract and must be cancelled. The chamber must be replaced with a new DMO immediately. I suggest a local ad agency or the island packet newspaper. Perry Tamara Melinda, you are chamber members attended the extravagant Kool-Aid chamber ball. Can I count on you to force Bill Miles to provide you and all 1500 members access to his records under the nonprofit corporation act laws and how all our money and members dues were used for his $800,000 plus salary? Yes or no? What is wrong with this council? I c I called for a

city doge immediately and stopped the foxes watching the hen house. Lastly, Perry said he saw chamber records invoices and receipts with Bill. They both committed criminal fraud, including the town. No, you let me finish. Don't you interrupt me. I'm not out of I'm speaking my first amendment right. Don't interrupt me. You are done. Orlando. No, sir. Mr. Mr. Hogland, your time is up. No way. I'm sorry. You're Canadian. Mr. Hogland. Absolutely not. Are you all going to comply to my foyer or not? You took my three minutes. I did not take your three minutes. You can go sit down, sir. I didn't.

Dave Ferguson. Mayor Deckard. Good evening, council. I'm not going to speak into that. It's a little high from my height. Uh but first of all, thank you. Well, I won't speak. You have to get to the microphone so the public can hear it. Can you fix it? That's always too high. It'll reset.

Okay. Thank you, Mark. Okay. Thank you, council, for allowing me to speak tonight. And uh I also wanted to thank Mark tonight because I have an email from you, not to me, but an email that you wrote to Mr. Troyer back in September and you had asked him if the chamber had or needed a town business license and if the DMO had or needed a town business license. And as you all know, I've spoken to you repeatedly about the fact that the chamber uh chamber DMO makes about six or $700,000 a year in for-profit business income and they don't have a business license. And the only way an entity that makes nonprofit business income in any town or county or city in the state of South Carolina is if all of that money is going toward the nonprofit purpose and it isn't going to benefit anyone directly. So my question is how do you know that it's not benefiting and going towards salaries and other things that it shouldn't be going to? You don't know that. And if I came in and said, "You know what? All of my income from my business I'm writing off to a charity, so I don't have to have a business license." I'm sure that you would all say, "Well, no, you're going to have to prove that, Mrs. Deckard." And any entity that makes this kind of money and for-profit income and doesn't have a business license need to be asking those questions. That's number one. So they have as of 2024 $742,942 that they reported in for-profit business income for 2024. They also got I'm going to say was three three and a half million4 million in accommodations

tax funds. And then they reported in their annual application to the South Carolina PRT when they get matching grant funds. They said they had 8 million $125,000 in private business investment that they made in the year. So they wanted to get their matching funds which is about $4 million. So for an entity that has all this money and all this revenue that they're raising and all this money that they're making in for-profit income, why don't they have a business license? Is that not a natural question to ask? Especially since you're all wondering where you're going to get money to fund all of these projects. Isn't it by making every for-profit making entity pay their fair share? I think that's only fair and I hope you all do too. Thank you.

Thank you. That's all. All right, that's all the comments we have for tonight. So, uh, thank you all for being here. We are journed.