Heritage / Historic District Commission - Regular Meeting

Well, it's 7 p.m. and I declare open the meeting of the historic district committee of London Heritage for this July 23, 2026. The meeting is launched and we have Jim Butler who is absent. I name David Ellis to vote in the place of Jim Butler. This gives us seven voting members. The room is full. We have the quorum and we can proceed. Denise is also present as a subordinate, but the subordinate is an integral part of the process. So we must approve the verbal trial of May 28, 2026. If anyone has any corrections or modifications, let me know. No. Otherwise, I will receive a motion to accept it as it is.

I propose a motion to accept it.

Motion to accept it.

David.

J'ai proposé une motion pour accepter. Vous avez fait, d'accord. David a proposé la motion pour accepter. Je prends Ted pour le second. Tous ceux qui sont favorables à l'acceptation du procès verbal du 28 mai 2026 tel que présenté, veuillez dire pour aigu.

Ouais.

Tous ceux qui sont opposés. Abstention. Le président vote affirmativement. La motion est adoptée. Place de course. We have two requests for a consultative opinion. I will simply read them for the verbal trial. We have a request for an examination of design for a group of land and a lotting resulting in three new lots. 77 to 83, Nageville Road, Carte Fiscale 7, lots 129, 129.1 and 130, commercial zone 111.

CM London LLC is the owner and asker, and Alicia informs me that they will not be present at the meeting.

We move on to the second request. The same entity requests a design review for a site plan including 4 residential buildings of 3 and 4 units, 2 mixed-use buildings for commercial and warehouse purposes, as well as a conditional use permit for 5 800 feet of impact on wetlands and 46 350. impact on the tampon area of the wet areas. 77 to 83 Nageville Road, tax card 7, water 129, 129.1 and 130, commercial area 1E. CM London Area LLC is the owner and also Comme pour la précédente, ils ne seront pas présents, donc nous noterons simplement leur absence et nous souhaiterions qu'ils reviennent si possible lors d'une future réunion et nous noterons également pour le conseil de planification que nous n'avons pas examiné ces deux... Very well, let's move on to other matters. Tristan spent a lot of time examining what was left of Kelly and our previous urban planner concerning our interior regulations and proposed, I think, a reasonable draft.

This is just my opinion and she will explain to us what we are going to do.

We will simply make a general presentation and then, during your next meeting, we will review the details or possible concerns.

Very well. Yes, I know you haven't seen this document yet. In fact, I will accompany you by interim until we find a new planner and a director and a director. We have divided the tasks. You are therefore stuck with me at least for this meeting, probably until September or November, depending on the workload.

Je vous invite à revenir en novembre.

Ah, eh bien, merci. Je veux dire, vous savez, je vous apprécie. Ce que j'ai fait, plutôt que de corriger l'ancien règlement intérieur qui devenait un peu lourd, c'est que j'ai remarqué que dans la version récente, on ne faisait que reprendre les RSA au lieu de préciser comment ce conseil est organisé et comment il fonctionne. By developing this project, I tried to inspire myself from models of other municipalities, having updated their internal regulations more recently. Exeter and Amherst had very good formats, so I used this structure to build the document. I'm not going to read it to you now. After this session, I will send it to everyone so that everyone can consult it, bring comments and that we can discuss it next time. But I will expose you to the general ideas that guided this approach. The first section concerns the legal aspects. Authorities, objects, principles. applicable rules. This is the separation clause. These are technical elements that stipulate that if the code or the statutes prevail on these rules, or if a part is considered invalid, we dissociate it. These are simply basic provisions. The next section deals with the Commission's responsibilities. As the Commission of Heritage and the Commission of Historic Districts, you maintain all your statutory responsibilities and your capacity a exercer ses fonctions, il n'est donc pas nécessaire de les reformuler spécifiquement dans le règlement intérieur. J'ai donc utilisé les directives de l'ARS concernant les missions de la Commission du patrimoine et de la Commission des districts historiques pour cibler vos activités. Comme je l'ai dit, je ne vais pas en faire la lecture ici. Vous pourrez le consulter de votre côté. Je l'annexerai au procès verbal et vous pourrez faire part de vos retours lors de la prochaine réunion. This also stipulates the limits of the consultation exam you mentioned, as well as your decision-making power, which is restrictive for issues of historical districts and demolition deadlines. Then we move on to the composition of the members, because do not forget that the RSA gives you a fork when it comes to the number of members and subordinates. This precisely specifies what is advised. So, the NSTQ has So, once again, specific terms in Londonderry concern nominations, vacancies, additions, attendance and participation. This eliminates any mention of a revocation, because it is not a competence of a council, particularly for urbanism commissions in New Hampshire and in Londonderry. This mentions the format of your offices, which is a basis for procedure rules and elections. This stipulates that you will benefit from administrative support. Réunion. Il est simplement indiqué que vous aurez un calendrier de réunion régulier. Je sais que le précédent mentionnait le jeudi. Cela signifie que si, pour une raison quelconque, vous souhaitez modifier votre réunion, vous n'avez pas besoin de réviser vos règles de procédure pour le faire. Vous ne le ferez probablement pas, mais juste au cas où. Cela inclut également des informations sur les réunions spéciales, l'accès du public, les votes, les règles d'ordre et l'ordre du jour. C'est très similaire à ce que vous aviez auparavant. Cela inclut aussi des informations sur les sessions de travail, le quorum et les avis pour la participation électronique. C'est quelque chose qui est régi par le RSA du New Hampshire post-Covid ainsi que les sessions non publiques. Encore une fois, ce sont des éléments qui n'étaient peut-être pas totalement abordés dans les anciens documents, mais qui sont importants pour la procédure. Il y a une déclaration sur les conflits d'intérêts. Vous pouvez en prendre connaissance. C'est assez simple. La plupart des règles de procédure décrivent ce qu'il faut faire en cas de conflit d'intérêts. Then, this is divided into three distinct sections on your three major responsibilities, your consultative exams, your approval certificate procedures for historic districts, and your demolition deadline exam responsibilities. I know quite well the demolition deadlines because I wrote down this part of the ordinance, but for the other two, J'aurais vraiment besoin que vous les examiniez en détail. Faites-moi savoir si j'ai fait des erreurs ou s'il manque quelque chose. Veuillez examiner cela attentivement pour vous assurer que j'ai bien capturé ce que vous faites réellement lors de ces procédures. Examinez aussi le délai de démolition. On peut certainement faire des erreurs dans des endroits inattendus. Concerne les acquisitions, les dons, les subventions et les fonds ainsi que le processus pour cela, car vous êtes autorisés à travailler et à les accepter en collaboration avec le conseil municipal. Les procès-verbaux et la communication, c'est ce qui s'applique par défaut, vous savez. La correspondance officielle principale provient de la présidence, travailler avec le personnel et la présidence pour communiquer. Le code de conduite, c'est essentiellement, soyez aimable et poli avec les gens. bases. Puis comment l'amender et leur certificat d'adoption. La dernière petite partie est une aide mémoire pratique pour les sujets qui vous sont présentés, votre rôle et ce que vous produisez habituellement. Ainsi, une bonne pratique concernant les règles de procédure est qu'elles servent de kit d'orientation pour un nouveau membre. En parcourant ces règles, il devrait pouvoir les lire avant sa première réunion et comprendre ce que vous faites. Et si quelqu'un se présente à vous pour l'un de ces sujets majeurs comme les trois premiers, c'est-à-dire l'examen, le renvoi au comité d'urbanisme, le district historique ou le délai de démolition, il devrait pouvoir les lire et savoir à quoi s'attendre en entrant dans la salle. Ceci est donc une ébauche. Je serai ravie de vous l'envoyer avec la dernière version modifiée pour que vous puissiez comparer et voir s'il manque quelque chose. Je suis curieuse de savoir ce que vous en pensez pour l'instant.

Des questions jusqu'ici ? Je pense que c'est bien mieux rédigé que ce que nous avions avant. Puisque j'y pense, j'ai remarqué une chose ici que vous devez vérifier. Vous avez fait référence à l'EMTT ? Bah l'orthographe. C'est double M E I T plus.

Je l'ai remarqué aussi en parcourant le document. Oui, le correcteur automatique fait parfois des siennes.

Oui, je le dis maintenant car sinon je vais l'oublier. Was this the latest version, David? Yes, they added a sign more in January during the update of the database. I have a question.

Aren't we responsible for street names? Someone from the fire department came to see us years ago and told us that we could use family names that have been present in the city for a long time.

We currently have a status on street names.

Yes, I think that the 911 system has taken over and we have sent names to the firefighters so that they can add them to the list. I guess it was about giving them names.

So no more first names. No, the weird names. I tell myself that it's not really London Berry. Krakenlog? Really?

Well, the essential is for the firefighters. Do not be confused by similar names. No, they take, then transmit to 911 and they can refuse. They will tell them if it looks like something. The register is...

There is one thing that I remember a few years ago, a promoter tried to name a road in a totally out of context way. I think it had something to do with Lycia Springs and it was not at all close to the source. And someone is opposed to it. So you probably want a certain coverage on this subject.

The other difficulty is that they want to make sure that there are no double names in the city.

The fire service transmits to 911 and 911 checks the roads that have similar sounds.

A few years ago, we had to change some roads in the city. Because one was a road, the other one was an alley.

I remember because yes.

It had the same name that was similar.

I remember.

I think the only thing I remember was the long discussion about the old road of Rome when we had it in front of us.

But it was a suggestion to go back because it had to go through Derry, the state via 911. So we just got it out of here because we had feedback indicating that it was the most historical name we could give him compared to what it was before.

What our current ordinance says is that all names must be attributed during the examination of the design and that the person responsible currently under this text, it is said that the evaluator, in conjunction with the system, must be administered by the municipal evaluator in coordination with the 911.

So it is clearly a partnership between different organizations, but this does not mention anything about a heritage commission, although in some circumstances it has been considered to be part of your process, of the examination of the design. It's very difficult. I look at the names of the roads all the time and that many of them do not please me. I noted them and I brought them a list. And I hesitate to hold on to that, you know, because they have been named after families who have been here for a while and I have new ones to give them, but they have

So I'm going to send this, as I said, with the last revised version that you saw, which also indicates the old ones, so you can take a look.

And please, don't be shy to tell me if something is wrong, because, my God, I didn't hesitate at all. of your design reviews or approval certificates for at least a year and a half. So, you know, on this part, I really need your feedback. The legal jargon! As I said, I am the joker of everyone's favorite conformity. So I don't care. But your procedures belong only to you.

Kirsten, how do you want to proceed? Are you happy to read it again, take notes and send it to me?

That would be perfect. Because then I can compile everything and send it to Art for dissemination.

So everyone sends their suggestions, changes or other to Tristan, then she will transmit them to me for our September meeting. We will discuss it, you know, and we will see if everyone agrees and we will adopt it as our official internal agreement.

Kirsten, it's a Microsoft Word document. Would you be satisfied if we simply use the follow-up of the modifications and

With pleasure. You can make a summary. You can make a different document. You can use the follow-up of the modifications. All these options are very good. And I'll send it to the Word format.

I know you had good formulations to replace John.

On the current version.

John, I couldn't find my notes about it. It was so long ago. I'll probably remember it. We'll start from scratch. We, yes. We'll see how it goes. Our next point is the discussion on the lookbook of the Lenders and I know that we have talked about it from time to time and you have done very good work to at least allow us to start and it is going in the right direction. So the floor is yours and I thank you.

Contrary to the internal regulations, this one can contain images, so I like it more. This is not the proposal for the final lookbook, it is a suggested action plan to move forward and finalize it in the coming months. So, starting with a calendar, you meet every two months. So unless you meet in the meantime, it would be really difficult to do this much faster. But this should indicate July 2026 and not August, because we are currently in July. Please do not make sure we are in August. Let's talk about the launch and the principles. This is the part where you start to think about the objective, the public and the standards you want to integrate. The suggestion would then be, during the September meeting, to concretely decide on a set of directorial principles. Ce sont des éléments globaux, comme faute de meilleur terme. Quelle est l'ambiance, n'est-ce pas? Que voulez-vous? Quel est l'aspect? Esthétique globale que vous souhaitez que les gens prennent en compte lorsqu'ils conçoivent ces bâtiments à Londonderry. Pas les détails techniques, juste l'impression générale. À quoi devez-vous leur demander de réfléchir? From there, you can move on to the individual components, design the subjects and shape the individual pages, examine the images and put them online. I will come back to the reasons why I suggest the online format. In a moment, and on the importance of having enough images to illustrate your points, what you really want to convey. Then finalize the launch in March. Once again, it's just a proposal. And I know you have to work in collaboration with the Council of Urbanism on this.

The components. How do we define them?

Give me a second for that.

I will first review the website.

Why a website rather than a document? I strongly suggest you present it simply as a page on the website. There are reasons for this. It is always up to date. You can therefore modify something. It affects everyone. It's easy to search. You can put as many photos as you want. You can update the photos. Low cost, very low cost. We now have enough staff with the new system to update it correctly and regularly. And it's accessible. Accessibility is also a major point. You can, for example, put images in high resolution on which people can zoom in. We have screen readers integrated on the website. Translation, you don't need to worry about all that if you have a book. Un livre est figé, sa distribution est limitée, son coût est plus élevé, il est plus difficile à consulter, plus difficile à rendre accessible et il risque d'être en décalage avec les RSA. Comme vous le savez, l'État du New Hampshire apporte des changements rapides au zonage et à ce qui est autorisé à être contrôlé au niveau municipal par rapport à ce qui est contrôlé au niveau de l'État. Il est donc risqué d'avoir un document imprimé permanent comme celui-là en ce moment, car il pourrait devenir... Quatre... Comment dire... Très rapidement obsolète.

Oui, il y a eu beaucoup de choses qui sont passées par la législature cette... Dernière session et le gouverneur vient d'en signer une que nous devons de toute façon retourner mettre à jour.

Oui, il y en a beaucoup. Nous sommes... Je suis en train de les éplucher en ce moment. C'est amusant. Donc, Encore une fois, au moins.

Nous l'avons lu, deux fois.

Nous travaillons sur les codes ICC maintenant, puis c'est la prochaine étape.

Une chose que je veux mentionner concernant les principes directeurs. Si vous vous référez à notre règlement sur les plans de masse, section 3.12, il y a de très bonnes indications, car cela couvre ce que nous faisons ici. Si nous l'avons fait intentionnellement, dans le passé ou non, je ne sais pas. Je ne sais pas à quel point tout le monde connaît notre règlement sur les plans de masse. And here is how to build it.

Start by writing down the director's principles, the objective, the public, the global standards and OKA. Or I would not have already said out loud what I did, what the atmosphere is. This is what we are looking for here. And here are these components, John, whom I was talking about. So establish the types of buildings to be approached. Si je devais revenir en arrière et ressortir, ce que je vais d'ailleurs faire. Lookbook de 2013. Cette liste de types de bâtiments que vous traitez. Grande surface, complexes de bureaux, commerçants-bandes, parcs industriels. Vous traitez à peine les premiers et les troisièmes maintenant, n'est-ce pas? But what we see a lot here now is multifamily housing, which includes commercial and mixed-use. These are not addressed here and they have a totally different aesthetic from what you were talking about in 2013. So considering what you are doing now, do you really need to treat large-scale, industrial and commercial areas separately, or can you talk about general commerce, mixed-use and multifamily? So it's about defining what these building categories would be now.

We still see constructions of industrial parks. Yes, the industrial, I would absolutely leave it in it.

In particular, it is the type of commercial. Yes, I would say that commercial centers in bands and large surfaces, it is no longer really built a lot here. And then? Thinking about how to talk about the components, I would start with the elements that go on the structure. This would be the next component. Colors, materials, architectural elements, which constitutes the building itself, right? Then you could address the landscape part. So when is it important and when it is not? You know, sometimes it will have no impact due to the location of the building or other design guidelines and preferences in vegetation. So it's another element to take into account. So you have structural elements, landscape elements, And I mentioned street signage, to finish. Partly because signage is always a delicate subject, just like fences, portals, what we see from the street, from the lines of sight. Yes, I'm looking for my words. But yes, this is how I would suggest to explore these different elements. This also follows a certain order of importance, doesn't it? I would like to give your opinion. This commission is much more about the structure than the landscape. but the landscape is probably more important than the ethical signal, which is largely governed by the urban planning, right? Thus, while you are building the site, the advantage of a web page is that if you finish a section, you publish it and it is online. And if you haven't finished the other parts yet, it doesn't matter. You will add them as you go. You deploy the content as you go. Thus, you don't wait for the end. For example, if the ethical signal blocks, the whole project is not stopped, you can move on. It is also for this reason that I suggest using a web page rather than a printed book.

I think that when we get to the section on shrubs, plants and bushes, we could include images because everyone may not know what these different varieties look like.

Yes, we have them in the mass plant regulations and it was elaborated by the conservation commission. I don't know if the photos are there, but I know that La commission de conservation possède des images. C'est une excellente idée, Ted.

Mais je pense qu'en passant par le site web, nous pouvons avoir des images de meilleure qualité que dans un livre.

Ah oui. Ou sur papier.

C'est une bonne, une très bonne suggestion.

Car je ne... Parfois, nous les consultons sur nos listes et je me dis que je ne saurais pas à quoi cela ressemble.

Je me suis habitué à certains d'entre eux.

No idea. You don't want me to be identifiable. There are several different varieties that... But you raise an excellent point. Maybe as the Heritage Commission, you are not the most expert in plants and green spaces, are you? But you see, the Conservation Commission, when it gives its opinion on conditional use permits, it talks about it often, right? So maybe you could ask for the opinion of the Conservation Commission on this subject.

They don't have the details, and they are the ones who provided the list to the urban planning committee. You know, the list...

The vegetation... We have at least the list, we only miss the images now. Yes, fortunately, thanks to Google, we can find them all. Because we can take the list of our site plans.

So, any questions about the process to be followed for this?

Do you have a good roadmap to move forward? Thank you.

You're welcome. Je me suis dit, comme je l'ai dit, que je ne peux pas vous aider pour le design, mais je m'y connais un peu en vieilles choses et en planification. C'est là que je peux être utile pour le moment.

Et je crois que nous avions remarqué lors de nos précédentes réunions que pour une raison quelconque, les photos de Gianni et Véronique avaient été perdues.

Nous devrions les recontacter pour voir si... Nous les avons récupérées.

Ouais, si Gianni a toujours ses photos... Ce sont... Voici ce que... Alicia is a genius. Yes, she's great.

Alicia was great. She did a phenomenal job digging through the archives and it's funny because Arte and I had also looked at it a bit, but yes, I... Yes, the photos of Giovanni Bruni.

Yes, she found mine and I suppose you also have some. Unknown. But I looked at the other photos and everyone has what I have, so...

Yes, I don't think she found yours for now, Art, but... Ted, yours are in there. I think there may be other Dan that she sent separately and that I might be able to find. I have a file at home.

I just want to check. Can I click on it again?

Absolutely. You have nine in there.

Nine entries.

Okay.

I'll check when I get home.

So you can see if I go down here.

I think there are good common points between us and even with, you know...

I mean, there are certainly common points. Climbing roofs versus flat roofs. Natural materials, natural materials, colors, sober. I mean, it seems to be... of solid common points, of colonial or sober Victorian roots, this kind of thing. You know, and if it's the kind of thing where everyone writes a sentence or two, we're not talking about paragraphs here. In fact, you want the images to speak more than the text. If everyone writes a sentence or two about what they think these things should be, you can write this text very easily, very quickly. et vous pourrez faire passer votre message. En fait, plus c'est bref, mieux c'est. Car vous voulez... Enfin, c'est ce que j'ai compris. En parlant avec Art plutôt cette semaine, laisser aux gens une certaine marge d'interprétation pour s'adapter à la dynamique du quartier. Vous ne voulez pas donner l'impression d'être... Trop rigide. Exactement. Vous ne voulez pas entraver, mais inspirer, mais inspirer. Et c'est tout l'intérêt de ce point. Et c'est ce que j'ai compris quand j'ai parlé à Jake.

We are not business architects and their architects know each other better than we do, but at least you are able to give them a potential roadmap.

But you know the city and that's why, that's why you're here, to represent the city.

Here in our, you know, signage regulations, forms of roofs. The first thing is that the forms of roofs must present various current inclinations in the traditional architecture of New England. It gives you room to design a roof, but it remains The key words here are New England and traditional, which varies. It varies indeed. You know, each of us individually, we look at the buildings and we know what we love, but we, you know, it is unlikely that we all agree on everything, but at least we are trying to reach a unity on what is, what is the architecture of London. What does it mean to you?

Well, even the definition of New England really changes because even artisan style houses now have different types of three lines that we see appearing everywhere in New England.

Yes, that's what I call more modern stuff.

And we're just trying to stick to what we love.

Let's go back to the 1800s. Everyone loves the charm of the cities of New England, but trying to recreate it today, it's not that simple. Pas avec les ordonnances de l'Arizona, en tout cas. Le plus proche, c'est le plus... Des questions ? Donc, ce que nous allons probablement faire, c'est que d'ici la prochaine réunion, nous allons mettre nos idées en commun et établir une ébauche en suivant, vous savez, ceci. And you know, what I'm trying to do myself is to look at the photos and define what I like in the traditional style of New England. Like the windows, the openings, and you know, everything is in the style of Croisillon, you see.

But all the houses in the city are not in Croisillon. Many houses no longer have crossings.

No, indeed. But this does not apply, you know, to residential areas. We have no regulations.

We can't tell someone.

to design their own house or whatever. But when it comes to trade, multifamily, mixed use, to a certain extent, industrial buildings have a certain similarity. Generally, most of the candidates who come to build industrial buildings tend to be similar. They don't want to stand out, you know, from their neighbors where they're going to settle down. They want something that integrates but is also functional. I mean, we have a good idea of what the industrial zone between Penthill and Jack's Bridge Road is, then another one up to Independence Drive.

The only problem we could encounter with the industrial or the commercial is that these companies have specific colors for their buildings and their logos, which we could potentially compose.

We have the power. You had no idea what we did with Taco Bell. We sent back their architect three times in the Midwest by plane to give us satisfaction.

Before the Commission of Heritage was involved in the examination of the design, the Council of Urbanism had managed the dossier. I know that we had four meetings on this subject concerning the color and the design. Every time we raised different points, they returned to their seats in Atlanta and one or two months later, they came back with a design closer to our expectations. There were therefore four iterations and I know that one of the members of the council who traveled a lot for his work took pictures of Home Depot through All over the country. And it's like, you know, you authorize this city to do that, why don't you authorize us? And then it makes them change their mind.

So the only thing on the Home Depot building, which is not Home Depot, is their sign at the front, which is orange.

The rest of the building is open. You know, Big Boy did this job.

I'm thinking of an industrial building that, you know, could have a blue exterior because it's their color. And I know that some people in the council may not like blue, but I don't see what's wrong with blue, especially if it's the color of the company's logo.

But we're supposed to use earthy colors, according to Morel. Earthy colors. Blue is earthy.

We are earthy colors. We have always talked about earthy colors.

Traditional New England, but... But if they are authorized elsewhere, in New Hampshire...

I know they have different decisions. The EMD. I don't remember the full name. Yes. Urgent care? Yes. Urgent MD or Urgent Care MD. The building is a dim red. They first arrived with a bright red, didn't they? And they ended up attenuating it. He still has the metal roof. I think. I mean, a lot of things we've done are compromises.

We've worked with the, you know, the asker. Sometimes, you know, a real compromise is that you don't like him, he doesn't like him, he doesn't like him.

I almost took a picture of McDonald's on the same principle. Except for the yellow windows. It's a brick building and you don't see a lot of McDonald's that smell like bricks. Like that. It was a compromise. Yeah, I didn't send this picture because my wife doesn't want me to approach McDonald's and their floating bar.

But I remember this one, what we crossed for when they changed this one. And everything they came to see us and everything they had.

Yes, it was a local franchisor, you know, with whom we dealt much more easily than a... McDonald's corporate. For the release of 5.1.

You remember, he didn't like our way of managing things, so they said, let's go.

It's one of the members who brought all these photos of McDonald's from their website. So we remember the past anyway, but... So Kirsten, you will send us a copy.

I will also send you the PDF so that you can consult it. I will send you another copy of the lookbook so that you can compare and see the topics covered. From there, I will send you a few key points on what would be useful, according to what your president just said, for the next meeting.

To be able to move forward. Now, could all this be printed and given to suppliers so that they have an idea of

Well, ideally, it shouldn't be necessary to print it. It should simply be accessible on the website.

Well, okay. I guess I'm still old-fashioned, whatever. But as long as they do it, can they make sure to read it to know what we like?

So, when people come to... You know, asking for a design revision and going through the approval process of the site plan and all the rest, they are responsible for familiarizing themselves with the guidelines, the rules and the regulations of the community in which they arrive. So if part of the revision of design, if part of the process requires consulting the guidelines in the Lendary lookbook online, they are responsible for taking a look at it. Encore une fois, ce sont des directives. Comme vous l'avez tous dit, il y a toujours des compromis, mais ils sont responsables de le faire. Nous n'allons pas remettre des copies physiques aux gens quand ils arrivent. C'est pas quelque chose que nous allons ? Non, je pensais aux suppléants quand même. Je veux dire, elle est arrivée, je crois, à froid et... Je veux dire, je vais envoyer ceci à tout le monde, pas seulement aux habituels. Oh non, vous avez tout le monde ici, va. Pour les futurs suppléants qui peuvent... Les suppléants ou les nouveaux membres. Absolument. You can create, but once again, to go back to these procedure rules, it's almost supposed to be read as an orientation file. So inside, it will be written, you know, lookbook Lendari. What is that? They should take a look at the lookbook.

It will be much easier when we can simply access it on the website rather than trying to get a printed document for people.

I find that with the printed documents, they get lost or other things are put on top. And they say, yes, I put that on now.

where we can simply display it permanently during our meetings as one of our web pages, as well as the regulations and procedures so that we know what we represent.

Christen, just a question about procedures.

When someone comes to London or maybe further and wants to build a building, is there an electronic file with the form that has been sent to them?

C'est quelque chose comme avoir un dossier. Vous envisagez de venir à Londoréa, qui relève du développement économique, pour lequel nous n'avons pas eu le personnel, ni la capacité de vraiment le mettre en place. C'est quelque chose que Kelly avait vraiment pour objectif de développer. Et c'est en fait... C'est quelque chose dont nous avions parlé lors du processus de planification stratégique, à savoir essayer d'avancer vers cette idée d'avoir cela prêt à l'emploi. Il fut un temps. Il y a quelques temps, nous avions un coordinateur du développement économique, une personne dédiée à ce rôle, qui travaillait sur ces dossiers. C'est donc un objectif qui a clairement été exprimé. Nous n'avons rien de prêt pour le moment.

In fact, what I was thinking about is that I know that there is an assortment of forms, etc. that they must fill out when they arrive and I suppose that they receive them when they introduce themselves or talk to someone on the phone.

I'm thinking of building something at the Dandery.

And could we be proactive and join the lookbook to this file?

As an electronic file,

Currently, if you plan to come to the city and you want to consult the regulation and everything else. Let's go through this page. So you have the land use regulation and the requests. This is our current page on the website. So you have the land use regulation. You can see what's right up there. So this is the current version.

This one will be there. If you go to the website's rules, that's what I just mentioned.

Section 3.2... 3.2. This one will give you...

So there's this one right here. That's what he was talking about. So he would be added there? Absolutely. Now, I would say that we are migrating, we are transferring the requests for mass plans and lotteries to OpenGov. So we put online authorizations in place for them. There, we can add options like, to check the London lookbook and they have to tick to confirm my pump. Yes, I did it. So when they arrive and say, oh, I've never heard of it. You can answer, well, curious, you did tick that you did it. and you can also include a link to the document. So this is part of the responsibility and also as we move forward in the design exam, for example, your comments will be included. Thus, the elements of each will be grouped. This avoids the excuses of the type, oh, I didn't see that, I didn't think about it, I didn't follow it, I didn't write it down. I didn't receive my email.

Everything will be centralized in there.

Even those who make complaints, you know, sign and it indicates I read and understood, and yet they still don't, you know.

Let's hope that this rationalizes our process.

And I mean, realistically, for any promoter, there is a tension between the money they would like to invest in the project and the standards imposed by the community. It's a constant arbitration to find the right environment, isn't it? You know, we see communities, for example, in certain parts of Massachusetts, where everything looks like coatings and where McDonald's panels can only be of a certain size in brown and white. You know, when McDonald's evaluated this location, they decided that the money they could generate was worth the cost. They were therefore ready to make compromises on their brand standards. And that's exactly what it's about. With each construction, the question is, will the project be financially viable according to the standards and guidelines of this community? New Hampshire does not give as much latitude to local communities to impose restrictions. C'est pourquoi il faut une négociation collaborative et c'est pourquoi vous avez fait un excellent travail en insistant sur cette collaboration et ce compromis pour inciter les gens à travailler avec vous plutôt que de simplement dire je vais peindre ça en violet. Je peins ma maison en violet.

C'est presque un partenariat, travailler avec eux, vous essayez d'arriver à un terrain d'entente. It looks great. So does everyone agree? I think that during our September meeting, we will discuss the concrete details with everyone's ideas and we will examine the images. I know we have a lot of photos, but you know, I think we have to decide how much we really want to put in, because having too many tends to lose people. It's not enough. It doesn't really say what you mean.

Find the right balance.

It's not always easy.

There are the following points in the order of the day.

Okay. Then I have... M. Ellis. David Ellis. For... Well, this may give us a view of the whole. I don't want to say the...

I mean this subject. I mentioned it for the first time in front of this commission probably three years or more ago, and I take... I think the problem has been solved. But to summarize quickly, the RSA forces the Heritage Commission to be sensitive to historical resources. The State provides a database of historical resources called EMTT+. And when a promoter arrives with a proposal, someone in town, checks if this property is listed in EMTT+, or is above an element listed in EMTT+. And if this is the case, we can then examine it and see what kind of impact it could have on the historical resource. And if any modification is necessary, we can negotiate or something like that and go to the Council of Urbanism. Now, in 2006, I think Art was probably one of the main instigators. The city has established a distinct list of historical properties. There are about 150.

They are from the 2004 plan of directors and have been entrusted to the municipal council. Okay.

There were four work groups. One of them concerned historical properties. Yes, I know that the date at the bottom of the one I have is 2006. Why did I choose that?

Yes, and it was formed in 2006 and Russell was the president.

Well, this one contains about 150 owners. The criteria according to which the owners have been registered on the list of the city are different from those used for EMTT. There are therefore differences. I would say that there is about 30 to 40% shift between the owners listed on the two lists. The city list does not contain much detail on each property, except for the construction date. The one of the EMTT contains a lot of information on the reasons for its historical character and on the characteristics that could be. It gives us a little more details with which to work when it appears on the EMTT list. I told myself that instead of consulting two different lists, if we integrate the properties related to the municipal list in the ENTT database, by adding them to the list of the State, there would be only one place to check. And to integrate them into the ENTT, you would get a little more information about the reasons or the interest of this property in particular. Thus, you do not navigate completely blindly I brought a kind of document. We will have to make it circulate because I am only one copy of each, but this one is a sample that I prepared. It is only four pages from the municipal list. I reviewed each property and noted if it was already in the MTT, if it had been lost or if I had studied, which would facilitate its presence in the MTT. If I haven't studied it, it won't be as simple.

This will give you an idea of the coverage, of what is there.

Can we go back to you one last time? I will first send it in this direction.

Now,

To show you what goes in the EMTT, I took three properties on High Range Road and personally submitted about four or five files to the EMTT for different properties in the city. Most of them, I think there are some sites on the Musquat side. I treated the site of Lithia Spring, I did the run trail, things like that. I don't have... Oh, and the Meeting House on the Town Commons is the only real building that I took care of in the EMTT. But that will give you an idea of the type of content that we find in the EMTT. These are things that I have prepared and that could be sent to the State. There are three different ones here. Take a look at them, pass them on and that will give you an idea of the type of information provided. It is a work of research. Consequently, I think I have already treated about 20 or 30 properties. So it becomes a simple copy and paste. Any member of the public can submit any property to the EMTT. What happens is that you submit it to the DHR, they examine the submission, evaluate it, check all the references, make sure that what you say is accurate and if they judge that it is correct, they integrate it into the state database.

Anyone can do it.

Le problème avec ça, c'est que si je parcourais cette liste de villes pour en extraire 20 ou 30 propriétés, ce qui risque d'arriver, c'est que l'État recevrait 20 ou 30 dossiers de la part d'un simple citoyen. Et je ne pense pas que ce soit très approprié.

Si j'attire leur attention...

Yes, I think it would be much better for such a file to be prepared and sent by the city in one form or another, probably by this commission. My proposal is, I mean, I would be completely willing to help to gather to put together the 20 or 30 properties that we have on the forms. Like this one. He could be examined by the Commission, if you wish, and instead of my name on it, it would be someone from the Commission, a representative. Probably either John as Secretary, or Art as President. Maybe this should go through the Municipal Council.

Hmm, that's a good question. But I have a question about this one that I'm looking at right now. I have a street number, the 84 Mammoth Road. For the next page, it indicates an address on High Range Road.

Did I make a hit error? Let's look at that. Jackson Hole. Oh yes, I made a hit error. But not now.

No, it's High Range. Well, and also? They're all on High Range. This one is also on High Range.

Well, it's because I copied one on the other. I know Tim Thompson worked on it.

Steve Young, the partner of Kathy Wagner. I took some pictures. It's what we thought. And then we got together as a commission. We examined the photos and what was significant, both Jenny and John Delfraide were part of it. David was also part of it. It was the experiment to identify the architecture of the time.

But they didn't record all that. These information here come from all the evaluation records. So in reality, some of these dates are rather suspicious.

But it was just like the photo and the evaluation data so that we can identify. That was it. And we discussed, I think that most of it concerned architecture. There are some places that had a historical connotation. So, I mean, it's not a perfect list, far from it, but at least these are properties that we estimate to have value. And then the question was, you know, if someone wants, let's say, you know, to rebuild and put something else in place, we don't have the power to do anything else than a demolition deadline. The city has no way of buying properties or anything. You know, we have worked with, you know, like with the relay of diligence, I think. Some people from the historical society

A lot of work with that and also the Roby house over there which was... Yes, it was a project, another one, so it was like, you know, protesting.

And then, you know, I think that anyway, the owner of the Roby house has understood, I think, its historical importance and I mean, an extension has been added.

But as for the current relay of diligence,

the economy really the promoter did not have money and left it so it was not a providential advantage you know well I say I say if there is interest

I am certainly ready to do a copy-paste job and to prepare forms like this one for the properties that I have already studied, which is actually about 20.

It is strange, however, to receive a request here for, you know, a particular address, but that your following pages then display a high range of addresses.

Yes, that's what I just said. I copied the address section by mistake, unfortunately, and I made a shell.

J'avais ma motte en tête à ce moment-là et je suis juste surpris que cela recherche quand même la propriété en question. Cela semble juste bizarre. Leur système semble juste bizarre. Ce n'est pas dans l'EMT pour le moment.

Oh, d'accord. Non, c'est un brouillon. C'est un formulaire que vous utiliseriez pour le soumettre. I see. I thought it was the system. No, that's why I put a mistletoe on it, so you know what it is. Okay. It looks like... It's on my personal computer at home. It went nowhere else. Thank you. I thought it was... I'm sorry. I wonder why you were so stuck. Yeah. I mean, I'll do the work to prepare the 20 or 30 that I have. If you think it's worth it, I want to continue. Yeah. But I really don't want to provide all this work if I just have to take the dust.

Okay.

I mean, I think that now, listening to the others, we should maybe see what David has. We can do it in our next meeting and then at least discuss it. And if we feel ready, make a decision on what to do.

If there is a legal way to do it without it being considered as a private meeting or other, I would be delighted to compile all this in a PDF, to send it to John maybe, and to have it distributed. Can we do this kind of thing?

In fact, I think you'll have to go through Arte for that to happen to the president.

Okay.

So you can broadcast documents. It's just that as soon as you broadcast them, Descartes broadcasts them, it becomes a public document at that moment.

It doesn't bother me that it's a public document. I just don't want someone to come and say, oh, you have private meetings and... Any document.

So it's very good that he can broadcast it as long as no discussion takes place outside of a meeting.

Okay.

As long as you discuss it during the meeting.

I think that once Carte has received it, it will be transmitted to the staff and the staff will be able to take care of the legal aspect.

That's how we did it with the planning committee. Everything goes through the staff. The staff will take care of it. I think that as long as you transmit information without waiting for a return, it's not acceptable. But as soon as you receive something in return, it creates a discussion.

But I would say that this would allow to tighten the calendar a bit because if I work on it, it will take me weeks to assemble all this. When it's ready, I will send it to Art and we will find a way to broadcast it so that the next time we meet, people can make relevant comments.

I think we had about six meetings that took a lot of time just to establish this list of historical properties for the city.

Je dis qu'il y aura encore beaucoup de choses sur cette liste que je ne pourrais pas aborder parce que je ne les ai pas étudiées et je ne compte pas le faire. Chacune d'entre elles est le résultat de probablement des mois de recherche. Chacune de ces trois-là. Ça prend du temps. L'effet parce que ces propriétés m'intéressaient pour l'un des livres que j'ai écrits.

Eh bien, je pense que vous en auriez quelques-uns d'utiles.

Oui, c'est un début.

David, a few quick questions. For the residential, I suppose that for the commercial, STED, do you need the owner's permission to access it?

Any member of the public, no need to be a resident of the city, can enter and submit one for a property in the city. This does not engage the owner in any way. But you don't need their agreement or anything? You don't even need them to know. It's just a matter of telling the state that it is a historical property. L'État n'intervient que si vous essayez d'y faire quelque chose ou si vous tentez soudainement de la préserver de force ou quelque chose comme ça, alors cela devient une question d'expropriation et le propriétaire a ses droits.

Et si je comprends bien, vous parlez de commencer avec les 20 ou 30 que vous avez aimés. Je ferai ce que je ferai, c'est puiser le matériel dans l'un des livres que j'ai écrits. So you have this to start with. So you said there was about 30% of slippage between the stages.

There is already about 30% of slippage there.

So how many additional properties in terms of the next stages? Because I suppose that this seems to be a good project.

I should all count them for you, but you will still have 70 or 80.

Oh yes. You will probably still have between 50 and 80.

I don't know anything at the moment. This four-page document, the one at the beginning, will give you an idea of the sample. You have four pages, so there are probably 16 properties in there. How many of them have comments or don't have any? The ones that don't have any comments are the ones that would only be on the city list.

I think we probably need...

of several summer interns working on it? Yes. But finding some of this information like the exact dates for the property takes time because you have to go through all the records of the county of Rockingham to find the property. You are essentially doing a title search on each property.

The city could offer this as a service to a potential buyer. David, I noticed, for example, on what I believe to be an old school, the brick school, I think it's near Pillsbury or Hardy.

Yes, it's school number 1. There is a plaque there.

Is it related to all this or do you have something?

No, the plaque is totally independent. Okay, I don't know who installed it. The integration of data in the EMTT is only intended for those interested by history or the Commission of Heritage.

Well, I think that what interests me, and I realize that we are lost, but it could be interesting once all this work is done and integrated into the EMTT, and perhaps maintain the list of the city according to the final plan. if you display it so that the inhabitants or neighbors know that they have a historical property.

This could be a good project for an eaglescope.

A long time ago, we had an eaglescoot that put signs in front of certain old historical properties.

Like the White Tavern on Old Tavern.

It stayed there for a very long time. They also had another project, the one to install the plates with the historical names of the streets.

Interesting.

But yes, maybe we could... Yes, you could shelter...

Listen, for the Scoot project... You have to realize, before launching this, that... You know, sometimes, yes... The owner... Maybe he doesn't know that it's, I think, maybe he doesn't know that it's historical and he might not want it to be known. So there could be a conflict.

Well, you could ask. I mean, it would count. In fact, you could even ask for a contribution for the cost of the panel.

But no, you could certainly ask.

We would like to do that. Do you agree with that? Otherwise, never mind.

My motivation was really to try to integrate the list of the city into the unique EMTT database and to obtain a little more information on each of the properties in order to make a more relevant decision on the potential impacts.

Yes, I mean, even if it's something in the ground itself or even the foundations of a building on one. A field that someone wants to develop. I think it came from the side of High Range Road. It seems that it was a three-storey building. The existing house was on one of them and there were two others. I think you and Anne had found three of them.

This one is next to one of its properties. And the only thing we can do is simply write down these foundations on the loting plan. By the way, I ended up discovering what these foundations were. I searched in the property types and in old maps to identify them. The foundations were quite old. The one at the back was actually a barn. The one at the front was a large residential building.

John Humphrey, I think it was him. I forgot his name now.

It was one of the very first residences up there.

Well, it was around the 1700s. It was a very active area up there.

A little later than that, towards Wheat, between 1700 and... At the end of the 1700s. At the end of the 1700s, at the beginning of the 1800s, there were three taverns and two shops Up there. Where was it already? Between White Hill Road and Pillsbury on High Range. Impressive.

A meeting point where the roads joined the old runway. But... They transported goods, in fact, since, for example, the exit of Portsmouth.

It was through... The line of diligence that went from Amherst to Phantoms Ferry crossed the Bac. I don't know, maybe they used another road on the other side of the back then they went through Lichfield, up again. White Hill High Range, down again from Pillsbury, borrowed the old track from Rome to East Derry. It went through Walnut Hill Road to East Derry, which went to Sandown, then it went through Kingston, the exit and Portsmouth.

And one of the transported goods was the rum.

And with all this transport, you see, when you look at Peaceberry Road, you climb to the top of the hill. You look at White Hill, you climb to the top of the hill. They traveled only 6 or 8 km per hour, all the more. They were tired and thirsty when they arrived at the top of the hill, at High Range.

It's logical.

David has a document on it. Dismocorner. We found this Dinsmore and... Well, yes, there were two.

The Dinsmore was the one that arrived early by Derry and we had a few of them in London, I think. Dizour came from Massachusetts. It is a completely different family, although the names are similar. And what happened is that certain maps indicate Dinsmore. Well, let's go to this place.

So it's probably a longer-term project, I think, to put it all together, but... Something that, you know, I think we're going to...

But if there is a general interest, then I would prepare some others and I would send them to Arte and...

Yes, it seems... What does the non-elected mention mean for the national register or state?

I examined what happened to this property and I determined that on the basis of the given criteria, there is a set of basic criteria to be filled. To be eligible for these two records and this property, I will not fill them.

Yes, none of them are... So...

I'm going to look into it to see if there are comments from the public.

They don't want to enter here. They queue. I don't see any. It's up to you, Carson.

No, no more business. I'm going to take a motion for... I have three quick ones.

Three quick ones.

I swear to you.

Okay.

I have a note from the last verbal trial concerning the access of David Ellis to Elwood Farms.

Something happened about it? No, it was Tim Butler and I who wanted to go there. We didn't get any news from them. I don't know what the status of their project is, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's probably safer to go in. I mean, we'd like to do it if the promoter agrees, but he's not here for us to ask him. So, is there a measure to take, guys? I can't do anything and I don't think Jim can do much. You have to come back to us. I gave him a business card.

I think at the beginning of the year, I think we had asked Kelly to, you know, to look into the matter or to contact the promoter. I didn't understand. I'll go and see. I have a lot of names on the tip of my tongue and they don't come out as easily as before.

No, not as easily.

Secondly, let's be brief. The hot potato on Nichefield Road. We had a note asking if their demolition permission had expired. You had a year. It lasts a year. And I think it's allowed. The demolition was granted.

I think it was more than a year ago. October 2024.

It was in October 2024. October 2024.

So, it expired because I was asking two people in the... Wait, no, wait.

Sorry. It was the approval certificate. Yes. For the demolition. The demolition permit could be more recent. I should check the date for you. It was later.

It should come from... From Nick. And the time I went there, Nick wasn't there and everyone thought... It was a year ago. You know... The only reason why it is a delicate subject is that if it is expired, perhaps the appropriate body should inform the people that their demolition permit.

It would be the building inspector who

I think it no longer depends on us at this stage.

No, no, I agree.

I mean, I'm aware of everything that's going on, but I don't think we wanted to be bothered by not telling them that the certificate had expired. That doesn't mean they won't be able to make a request and everything else. So who's doing what here? I'm addressing the urban services.

I can certainly check the dates and confirm that.

Does it have to be quite unusual for a demolition to expire and remain suspended?

I don't know, I'm not sure. I can't comment on that, but I can certainly check this specific case for you.

I know that he deals with lawyers on this property for other files, so that could fit into this overall framework.

And the last point is just information in the form of questions, including the people who came tonight. Okay, we only examined three buildings this year. I think some things have slowed down, even if we see a lot of multi-projects. I think we have a good one. So, on the day of next year, the Urban Council. The case is planned.

Well, there will also be one or two other buildings for the village on Technology Hill that we still have to examine. This has not yet been presented to us.

It's just that, like us, we have changed the subject a little. I feared that we had been infiltrated by the urban service and that we did not see everything that was happening, but you say that this is not the case. So everything that happened, the Urbanism Service will transmit it to us.

There are fewer files in progress.

No, no, I understand, but there were discussions when we had a visitor from the Urbanism Service during our meetings. There were discussions about the fact that certain things should not only happen through us, but also through conservation, so I was a little worried when I saw... Okay, I see. To my knowledge, this has not come into force. I think it came from our previous planning and development.

I think it was also a matter of concern concerning industrial-type buildings that did not correspond.

But I think, well, tonight we had to see at least partly an industrial building. I know everything was residential. I thought there was a mixed-use warehouse or something like that.

Yes, big. Mixed-use warehouse.

I know that the planning council, for the next meetings, 3.1, 1.2 is a warehouse, but it is not the address indicated here.

If it is at the time of the day, it should not have come to us, right?

Because I believe that at our July meeting, we had no plan. We are in July.

It was during the July 8th meeting.

No, no, no plan. And it was... Oh, we discussed with the planning of the south of New Hampshire about the grant.

Isn't it? Yes, that one was residential this evening.

Well, I have to go back. Look now. I don't think it's long meetings. We have long meetings like before. But less, less often. I think because the construction season is starting to... You know, close to September, these people are also on vacation, things slow down. But I'll be honest with you, I just reviewed, I think our first meeting of the year was in February, if I'm not mistaken. And I reviewed the meetings that we had. You know, sometimes we had three or four buildings in one evening. If there was nothing industrial this evening, if I am wrong on this subject, then we have only had two since the beginning of the year.

This could be the current global economic situation that pushes people to slow down their activities.

I think that in the...

The cost of business... Cost of interest, economy... All the wood coming from Canada up...

So I mean, it's like everything was happening... Generally, the most important thing that slows down the growth of construction is the economy.

Just like having.

No worries about all that, I just wanted to be assured or reassured about the fact that. If it exists, we see it and we are not surrounded here. Not knowing. We are not surrounded.

I'll take your name, sir. I know.

If you find anything, let me know. I know. Okay.

News from the History Society.

We have added a door on the west side. We have added a platform of about one meter on one meter.

Lay on the ground with a fence. It is not fixed to the building. It's there to help people get in and out of the building.

I didn't tell you about it because I didn't think it was necessary since it doesn't modify the building. Connected and it's a ramp, I think it's a security issue. And later this summer, the person who works for us prepares bids to carry out work on the cloche of the farm. because there are rotten men and he needs an elevator to access it. We are going to do some maintenance work and you will see maybe big teams on site.

At least a machine to take the worker to this level from the outside. Okay, that's great. And I told them that I would worry. I told them to replace the elements with synthetic. Because no one on the ground will see the difference. Rondins, it looks like what we see from the ground. I didn't want to spend money in the future for rotten wood.

But I think it's been around 2006. I don't remember exactly, but it was after.

that I started working on it and doing some volunteer work. Yes, I came across it the other day in the archives, so I can probably check if it's important, but... Well, no, it's the case. Whatever it is, it's been there for a while. And that makes a significant difference for the use of the gange, because I remember that at the beginning of my volunteer work, it made a suffocating heat in the summer. As soon as they added this bell, we could enter and it was comfortable because all the heat was escaping through the bell. There was another thing, David, the entrance steps of the Morrison house. We replace this granite. I have not yet arrived there. Okay, sorry. We may repair the entrance steps.

Someone else is taking care of it and the value was not very precise on the work.

There are three granite steps and the highest one is a little narrow. So if I can find another one and we have stones on the ground, I will replace the one at the top with something a little wider to facilitate entry.

Yes, that would be good. Yes, it's deep, but only about that. No, it's not.

And the one below is wide, about that. Yes, it's not very wide. You can replace it.

I mean, it's been there since I've been working that I do volunteer work over there, but... We get used to it, but have you contacted any landscape companies in the area? As I get older, I don't get used to it as much as I would like to. I have to.

So I hold on to the fence. I have to hold on to the fence and the fence to get in.

Have you contacted companies like Shady Hill or other landowners for granite slabs?

Oh, I probably have some on the ground. Yes, we had. I forget where they come from, but someone. We just need something. There is a house on the road that has been demolished. I think we recovered stones from there. It is the one on which we did androchronological tests for its age, I think.

For this house.

I don't remember.

We did it on this house. I think so, but I don't remember it anymore.

Did you do it? Chibi remembers this one. Griffin Road. Yes, it's the one for which Anne came to ask for an endocrinological study.

Griffin Road.

Mr. President, if there is nothing else, I propose to raise the session. I have a motion to raise the session. Press. Press.

Press.

Oh, okay. All those who are willing to leave the session, say for... The session is up, everyone.

Thank you.