Town Council - Regular Meeting

I guess we'll let this uh be at 701. I'd like to call the order of the economic development subcommittee for April 27 or April 2nd of 2026 to order. Um a note to residents, all citizens are welcome to attend public meetings in person. To view the live meeting remotely, citizens are encouraged to watch the live stream on Franklin Town Hall TV YouTube channel or the live broadcast on Comcast channel 9 and Verizon channel 29. Meetings are recorded and archived by Franklin TV on the Franklin Town Hall YouTube channel and shown on repeat on Comcast channel 9 and Verizon channel 29. To listen to the meeting remotely, citizens may call in using the number 1 19292056099 or to participate in the meeting remotely. Citizens may join a Zoom webinar using the um ID number of 8531967858. Any participates participants who wish to speak during the webinar must enter their full name and email address when joining the webinar. All participants will automatically uh be muted upon entering the webinar. In order to speak, participants will need to select the raise hand function to request to be unmuted and all speakers will be required to state their full name and street address before commenting.

That's how we waste five minutes of a meeting. We might stop at the end. You don't actually have to say it. Really? No. How do we say it? Now you tell us. Now you tell us. I just wanted to let him go through the process once. It's only one way to learn. Well, then we're not going to talk about that. It's only 2 minutes. 2 minutes. 2 minutes. Two minutes. Seriously, we we don't need to at least let them know it's on live TV or anything like that. Maybe not the Zoom stuff. It's on the agenda. I mean, none of this is even required by law to do. Really? No. So, we put we put it on there since the pandemic to make sure people know how to access all the stuff. The YouTube thing. Let's take back two minutes of our meetings even in council meetings. Let's do that. Okay. Yeah. I mean I've said it to I Yeah. So why don't we stop talking about because we're wasting more time.

Okay. Exactly. Appreciate it. All right. Since this is the the first meeting, we have our four wonderful committee members here. Myself, Councelor Lauren, Maximello, Caroline Griffith, and Steven Boy. There you go. That's that's the committee. Check. Any more than that, it'd be a quorum of the council and we'd have a different issue to have. So that's right. So with that, um the number two item on the agenda was the economic development profile. I don't know, Jamie, was there anything in particular you wanted to highlight in that information you sent out uh for us as kind of a primer?

Um no uh Mr. Chairman, just uh wanted to get out some of the profiles and some of the data points just to help the committee uh focus on its work. The only point I would say is and I added I forgot to add the pages on the original one. I think Max had it up and I've left a copy with all of you real quick which is the master plan um implementation section which is only a few pages. Um you know I highlight that because you know obviously the master plan went through a pretty long and public process. Um you know you don't have to do any of these items. Um you can do one of them. You can try to focus on a lot of them. Um but that's the only other one I'd focus on. I'd say the the Franklin for All study. There's a few items on there that never got done. I don't think because of um any issues with the items, but some of them are complicated like 40 RS. Um but a lot of those goals did get done and then I obviously included in here this afternoon as I was getting ready for this. Um, you know, as I said in one of the memos, if you didn't get a chance to see it, I just all of a sudden my brain was going with EDC and I just thought I'd put out a list to all of you to help you just try to kind of contextualize some of the work that we've done in the past, you know, five, six, seven, eight, nine years. Uh, some of the accomplishments. Um, and as you can tell from the memo, we've never really had any dedicated staff on this issue. So, it's really been, you know, Marina's predecessor, Brian, and Gus, and just some of myself and the deputy town administrators. um doing some of this. But there's nothing else there to discuss. There's no votes. I just wanted to give information everybody to kind of give everybody a background of where we're at and and um that's it.

Okay. Um with regards to the 2016 to 2026 achievements, were there in those list of achievements, I didn't have a chance to fully read it before, sure. But were there any um of those achievements that while they were considered an achievement, there really is still more that you think there's still more to to do? Like is there one or two? Obviously, I think there may be many, but is there anything that jumps out of that list that says, "Yeah, we it's an achievement, but there's we only took the ball halfway down the field."

Yeah. Um that's a great question. I would say um you know, the arts and culture piece is still growing. I think we've all hopefully seen the imprint of what that's been like uh the last couple years, particularly since Cory's been here, but even after we were a cultural district in 2019. Not exactly sure what exactly the task would be after that, but I think at some point when Cory's available, we may want to have a conversation with her about that type of issue. But there's nothing else on here other than the master plan goals that I think um and also number 13, the new style and 300 Fischer Street. Those are issues that'll be continuing to go on. Those two properties are properties that will be in cleanup for a long time, but they're finally starting to get some real good momentum through certainly Marina's efforts with the recent grant and the half a million dollars towards new style from ARPA money. And once those buildings come down and D has a chance to evaluate that, that's a centrallylo parcel right at the top of Grove Street.

That's a good piece of land. So, if that can get cleaned up and you look at where that parcel connects to other parcels in the industrial park and Forge Park, um that's something down the road to continue to keep our eyes on. And 300 Fisher is booked to come in to do a full council presentation in July or August. I can't remember the date. I think it's July.

Um they're ready to go out and do a public outreach effort this coming fall. um 300 Fishers at the end of Fischer Street where the DPW is. It actually connects to the SNET trail that we just purchased. Um and so um it's an old rubber manufacturing facility site. It is um have some contamination on it. Does have POS. It will take a long time to remediate, but those are two parcels that will continue on and will have some economic value um down the line. Um, other than that, I think most of what's on here are mostly done. Uh, the last type thing I would say is restaurants. Um, um, we can always have more restaurants. Um, we have our first restaurant week and thank you to all of you. But in all seriousness, I put on here the no quota piece. Um, unlike every other town, um, we have no quota on liquor licenses for restaurants. Meaning if Rentham or Norfolk or Medway if they need a liquor license, if a restaurant comes to their town, they have to go petition the legislature and it's about a year long before that business can get that restaurant license. You guys just approve them and they can open up. So, um, at some point, you know, while we've done a lot, that might be another one that if we want to do marketing or, you know, um, you know, some sort of outreach somewhere, we could probably try to go to like restaurant conferences or I don't know, stuff like that and see if we can try to get any more restaurants. But, um, other than that, I think most on this list is pretty is pretty much done. Um, and there's probably not too much to too much more to do on these topics. I think the master plan is probably the the the uh document that people would focus on the most.

Right. Okay. Just um before we move off of that document and if anyone has any questions specifically about that document, please bring them up. But I did want to talk about the the new style. Sure. Because that existed when I was on the council 20 years ago. It did. That's right. I think that's when you took it by it was 20 years ago. So like what is the end point for that? Like so the is there he's he's laughing over there. But when is the Well, for 15 years since you were gone. Um nothing happened. Um we'd apply for grants, get rejected. Um we tried to sell it twice. Yeah.

We had one bidder. Um we had it under contract and when the time came to pay for it and record it, they left. So we put it out to public procurement a couple times. So it was a lot of fits and starts um ever since we did the ARPA money a few years ago where we used a half a million dollars of town money and then um and then there was another grant that was matching at the time and then in addition to that the 250 that has recently been awarded. Um the end game is, you know, at some point when we finally have the financials to remediate the entire site, um you know, you're probably looking at at least the end of the decade. I'm guessing probably at least another two, three, four, five years. Um first things first is we got to get the structures down. Um and then after that, we'll be finding out what the next steps are in terms of remediating that site. Well, you just mentioned the word financing or whatever the cost like do we know what the total cost is going to be to remediate that space? Do

you guys have any guesstimate? No, it's probably going to be millions. I would say seven digits for sure. Once they um Oh, sorry. Yeah.

What? I know planning director. um once they actually go in and we've um awarded the bid, we've got a contract that's being um signed. They're getting us their all their certificates that they've got to get to us. So hopefully that will be um sometime next week. We'll have a signed contract in place. We're hoping to get the work started on the actual demolition. Um as Jamie said, there's heavy metals, there's asbestous, there's contaminated water. So once we get the the building removed, once we get the foundation removed, that's this piece of the project. Then we have to actually go and do more testing on in the ground in the wells, see what actual contamination there is, and then the plan is to do um to apply for another D Brownfields grant um to hopefully get the money to clean up that portion of it. So it is, you know, you all know what grant timing looks like. It is a couple years off at this point. Um, but hopefully hopefully before the end of the decade.

So, this is where I do a costbenefit analysis, meaning is it better to just sell the property for a buck and get and have the developer pay the pay the cost of all that so that the building goes up faster or is it better for us to pay to do all that remediation? Like, it's what's better the chicken or the egg in this equation? And I'm not asking for the answer to that question today, but that's how I would analyze. We tried twice to do the dollar and got left at the altar. Um, but if we do this one step, I guess where we could where we take the buildings out and and

there may be another million dollars has to get spent, but now that we've taken care of a large piece of it, the buildings it may be in a better it may be in a better. I think we need to look because it's more to me it's more beneficial to put the structure up than Yeah. Well, we we do have to take into account that it is a sensitive area. it is right up against mine brook. You know, we don't want to continue any contamination that might be happening. So, if we're able to get these grants um and do the remediation, that is something that we should we should explore. Okay. And we can certainly when we're done with the building takedowns, I think working with D, we can try to get an idea of like to your point interest.

Yeah. And I I I totally agree with you because of all the cleanup and the buildings and all that stuff we've already done, maybe there's more of an appetite for somebody to buy that. I think what Marina is also pointing out is it's such an awkward site that for somebody to buy that the person that put a bid on that, by the way, with the neighbors. So, it wasn't like there was a widespread investment group coming in saying, "Oh, we want that property." It was literally the guy with the the kitchen, what was it? The granite countertop store right next door. Um, and then I think he probably got shock value of the cost of the cleanup. Um and so um but we can look at it when all this is done at the end of this year, calendar year roughly fall.

You know, we can certainly look at it again and and certainly try to see if another procurement might get another buyer for more than a dollar. Yeah. Because at some point we're we're starting to get to your point, we're starting to get to a point where the site's getting ready to be more cleaned up, which means there's more value to it. Correct. Mr. Chairman, I have a question when you're ready. Go right there. Um, so, uh, first off, we did just get a grant for that, another grant for that property, correct? Yes. So, that was 200, uh, 250,000. Yep. From D. And then that's on top of a $500,000 grant we got in the past. So, that's that's that's not taxpayer money. That's that's that's federal state money that taxpayers don't have to put the bill for that. Yes. Exactly.

Um, the other thing, and this is might be a little pivot. I don't know if we're ready for this yet, but we have the uh economic development goals from the master plan. And you originally when we had the master plan, the goal setting process, you know, I had to kind of wing it in terms of putting together some goals that I thought would move us forward. But I want us I'm hopeful that as a committee for the economic development committee, we could come to consensus on some things on here that might be better, like a better fit for getting the ball rolling and actually moving Franklin forward. Um, and you know, and I know I recommended like form-based code, and that's a heavy lift. I'm open to replacing some of those things with things that this committee uh supports that you know, we one one thing, you know, for example, is like having encouraging businesses to have shared parking so that we, you know, if you, you know, that businesses in one lot, you could park in a different lot and they get an exemption from the storm water tax. You know, that's something that we could push because I always hear people complaining about parking, you know, so things like that. You know, there's a lot of things on this list that we can do to make things better for Franklin residents and um I'm hopeful as a committee we could try to t knock some of these off.

Um you referenced you referenced the master plan, you all that stuff. So ultimately it gets down to really item three on the agenda, which is the purpose of being here tonight, which is really to kind of go through the the goals that have been that we have outlined. Um and quite frankly to hear other thoughts of the of the four of us of other things that we really want or desire. Um uh so with that being said, why don't we start Jamie with the 2026 2027 uh EDC goals if you wanted to spot them off or you want me to read them? How do you want to?

Um well uh one is the home rule tax legislation that's already been filed. um the 2% um I think the restaurant week is in progress which are great and then I think uh the next section were the master plan implementation goals um which was um which was on you know the the section here that I handed out um and then uh the fixed transit routes uh the climate leader designation um the uh Beaver Street recycling center formbbased code um the 40R smart growth um the SNET parcel and the um and the Schmidt farm. I mean, a lot of those goals, you know, are indirectly related to economic development, but they're not really directly economic development, right? Um, so I think some of the idea here was to leave all of you a more wide openen

input, right, to say, well, restaurant week is is an economic development thing and that's a good good vibe effort, but also I know other members probably have reasoning concepts. There's a lot here on the master plan. I mean, at some point you might want to just walk through each of the goals on the master plan and just see from the members are there is there anything that strikes a spark. Yep. That you guys want to do and and just look through the list and you know Gus and Marina and I can comment if something's feasible, expensive, not realistic, realistic. Um but I think we're looking for guidance at least from this list of what you guys may be interested in doing or other things that aren't on this list.

Yeah. Well, what I'd like to do is if you're all in agreement, is Max, you start and just what are the what are the things that you'd like to see that we that may be already on the list or let's just put it out there. Let's I always say let's put our 10 poll out there. Let's see what it's looking like. Um so I think one of the things I mean I do think we need some some easy wins. So I think having some of the smaller goals, you know, um like is requiring usable entries to face the sidewalk. Is that easy or hard in terms of a a zoning change? What do you you know I'm talking about Did you say sidewalks? Yeah. ED1.1D is just talking about how do we make downtown more vibrant

and one of the suggestions in the master plan was require usable entries to face the sidewalk so you don't have a door going out to the side. It it faces the sidewalk. Like is that something that is a crazy zoning change or is that something more simple? Sorry not to say Gus Brown, building commissioner and through the chair. I mean, that's a great question. I mean, I think first you need developers downtown. You um need that vibrant change, so to speak. And it's easier obviously for buildings take building is taken down to reconfigure the way it approaches a sidewalk. We did have someone at Tech Review, I think two weeks ago, that was looking to buy a to actually um tear a building down in the downtown area and build new. And I know that Marina has come up with um some sort of a um I might let her speak on this, some sort of a approach to how aesthetically a building should be built with this form-based code. Thank you. And I think it's a brilliant idea to put things in place because a developer will come in a lot of times with what they want. And I think this this whole program has a lot of legs. And I I'm not saying not to look at this now and and produce it or talk about how we want to move forward with this form-based code, but groundwork, slideshows, everything that's here. I don't know if this includes a slideshow or not or a slide presentation, but maybe if it's up on the screen, we can pick a building as a template to look at how we want to see it. approach the sidewalk and come up

with all these goals. Uh I just think it's a great idea. Um we haven't had a lot of luck with people wanting to do things in the downtown as we all know and we need to attract that and some of the buildings are older, tired buildings that don't attract people to the downtown as much as they possibly could. I know it costs money to do these type of things. Marina comes with a great background from Somerville that the ideas that they that she's told me about that this community had that Somerville had encourages it um in a way that is not too forceful but I it's not the way we have approached it in the in the past and I think that it really needs to be looked at and I think she's the lady to do it. So, so just to follow up, no pressure. No pressure. We kick things down. We We kick the can down the road in the office a lot. And what what she brings to this whole job that she's taken over is enormous. So, not to make her head swell up too big or put too much pressure, you know.

I I don't like I said, I I I I wasn't sure about form based code because I know it's a lot of work. Is this something that you in your office is passionate about that has the capacity for? Um, as well as like I said before, what are sit down? What are what are, you know, in addition to form based code, what are some easy wins that you feel on this list that you you could knock out and sort of make the downtown a little bit better? Um, what is a leg? I'm planning director. Let's keep on doing.

Okay. I didn't know that. Um, so, um, thank you Gus for all the kind words. Um, so forbased code, we had it in Somerville. We have it in Somerville. It is 600 pages long, right? When you look at that, it's not um it's not appropriate for Franklin. It's it was too much. It is too much. Um, it's a little bit too much for Somerville. Also, they've they've realized that since they put it in place. But um what I was really enthusiastic about was I went to a a citizens planner training collaborative um uh uh conference last weekend and they had a formbbased code light seminar um and it was um it was it was a company um I forget the name but they were sort of showing you how you don't have to go to that extent and they actually use Somerville as the example of like you don't have to do 600 pages, you can get um the the community look that you want without um having it be so um robust. So, I was telling Gus, you know, this is something that I think would be great, especially in our downtown areas or the crossing neighborhood to try to um get folks to produce the buildings that that we want that we want to make the neighborhoods attractive so that you're not just ending up with, you know, one long flatwalled building um and not having sort of any textures or um breaks in the building or different sort of roof heights and things like that. So, I think that with with and this would be a a a medium-term project, I think. Um, and I'm hoping that it's something that we can sort of achieve in the next maybe year, year and a half. Um, and it is something that we'd want to have community input about, but it would be, you know, we could tackle something

about like where the door space, you know, um, what sort of dormers you want, like you can sort of get into as much detail or as little detail as you as you'd like, but I think it's something that that would fit the town and that would help us sort of achieve the look that we're looking for. Thank you. And I do hear so much about like you know I think in even in the survey uh for the um master plan and for the community survey the big thing was about the character of the community was a big thing for people who I think it has a broad uh uh section of appeal

uh for people who want to preserve the character. Um uh is there any other initiatives like do you think you have the capacity to do sort of shared parking or is that uh a big lift?

So I would quickly say on the shared parking so um we we do have the capacity to do it. Um I think the issue that you're going to face is you're giving certain businesses a tax break to do something that may or may not be needed. and why do they get a break on storm water when others don't? Um, that's going to hit people. You know, we've heard about it before we did the storm water stuff. So, you know, I I know that was like the the benefit, but it's tough, right? Because you're starting to say to downtown businesses where there is parking already, you know, and I I still don't understand exactly why there's such there's no parking and people complain about no parking when there's I there's just tons of parking. Um, so but we do if you guys decide you want to do the shared parking concept in bylaw, we we can absolutely do that. That is something that's probably of an easier win or a more shorter term digestible project. Form-based code is not an easy win. That's that's a very very complicated endeavor. Um, that's not something that you just do. That's not like like shared parking. We could bring you a concept in a couple months or something. formbbased code is like a multi-year thing. I think the easy win on that is how do we engage downtown property owners, right? I think I think I think if we're all talking about downtown revitalization and there's a lot of values in the master plan about this, how do you revitalize downtown? And we've we've done the streetscape. We've done the two-way. We've poured we've done the banners. We've done the um the um the lighting, the trees, the decorations. We've helped coordinate the beautifification days with the downtown partnership. Um the town seems to be doing a lot, but the property owners don't seem to be doing much. And I think

the challenge for all of you is how do you want to engage those folks? Um, when we did the Franklin for All study, I'd recommended at the time, but it didn't get done, was to maybe have a forum downtown, maybe not on camera, maybe not in the chamber. Um, inviting them in, you know, and trying to do some sort of event and and network building or something to try to see exactly what the limitations are and what their visions are for those properties, right? Rockland Trust, the Ferraris property, um, you know, Mr. Passinis, uh, Miss Reer, like all of those properties, like what do they see in the next 10 or 15 years? Um, Depot Street Plaza, right? Um, you know, cuz I think there's only so much we can do, but I think, you know, we have to find a way to engage those folks to find out why there hasn't been as much progress downtown as I think people have been hoping for.

Mike, may I?

Yep. Yep. Thanks for bringing that up, Jamie, because that was kind of on my list as we look at individual goals and so forth. I want to sort of maybe think about this in a broader con concept of downtown and the crossing neighborhoods and what has to happen first, second, third before we get development. Um, and that was going to be one of my questions for tonight is how do we talk to those property owners? Is there what there's obviously some of our councils there to do something? So can we understand what that problem is? Can we incentivize some development? Can we, you know, try to steer this in a way that without even a a, you know, a code plan or even overall design, can we get people interested in doing something,

you know, getting started and then kind of, you know, if we have that interest first, maybe there's more flexibility or a little bit more impetus to come up with an overall design plan. But I just feel like it's I mean, how long has AAPO's restaurant been empty? uh six years because they how come like is he going broke? Is he not

I talked to the owner two or three times a year. Um he just called me about a month ago. Um I do think finally I will say not on wood. Um you know they've hired uh some local firms for the first time. Um, I think there's a reasonable I don't know the right word, but it's probably the most doable rendering and proposal of Depot Street I've seen in my 10 plus years here. So, I'm hopeful that they may even get to a point.

They're probably closer to filing to do something with the planning board than they've ever been certainly in my 10 plus years here. Um, uh, so I think that's a good sign. We've redone all the zoning downtown. Um, so I don't think that's the incentive. I think the I my particular opinion is I think

the elected officials or other stakeholders, maybe the partnership or dean or just some other people need to find out from them what do they want? You know, is it some sort of are they just looking for like the standard tax breaks or something? I I I to be truthful and I feel shameful saying this. They didn't really even attend any of the Franklin Forall studies. they didn't show up at any of the meetings. There's a gap there, right?

There's a networking gap. Um, I don't know if I'm articulating that right or if that's the right word, but I think um and and I had proposed doing the forum for Franklin for All on Main Street, like literally shutting down the road and putting out chairs on Main Street to say if you can't walk out of your front door from your business and come out and sit in the chair and tell the former EDC members what it is you want. Is it a new zoning proposal? Is it an overlay district? Is it nothing? Like just tell us something. And the reason why I say that is when Jeff Nutting became town manager in 2001, ironically in 2003, he was he went out and did a whole MAPC study on downtown. And uh and then when I took over or got here in 2016, we pulled out the folder. Nothing had changed in 15 years other than the streetscape and some of the beautifification efforts. Um and then we went and did the Frank and for all study and still very little engagement, very little attendance. Um and so it's been very hard to find. I think some other counselors in the past too. I think councelor Fringilla did I think tried to knock on the doors, go in and meet one-on-one and it just continually seems to hit this like wall of nothing. So with a new group here, you know, that might be something we think about in spring or summer is how do we engage with those folks? Do we just have a breakfast with the, you know, 20 property owners and and get some people together to try to understand exactly what the problem is and what they want? because I I think I'm I'm kind of I feel like we're almost done with what we think would work or what our professional associations think might be some good ideas,

you know, we just need them to tell us like what are they looking for? I I agree. And it's their property. It's their property. So, you would think they'd have an interest in the future in development and but obviously there's something broken where the status quo has just been so long Yeah. that if this hasn't been done like that before then I think we should make an effort to try to do that

and maybe for the crossing area too like you know as we have done all that zoning over and there's more opportunities now one of my questions was going to be you know has there been an organic uh growth in proposals or inquiries or whatever so done the zoning you know how come it's not how do we take it to fruition now and have people become interested interested in doing something. And to that point, I mean, we could do a couple of just basic sharets, not complicated stuff, you know, just networking, breakfast items, couple hours, you know, engaging people, maybe even making it less formal in both neighborhoods.

In the crossing, I think there has been more organic um investment. I mean, the mill, the the old mill store, 305 Union Street in particular, you know, Mr. Kaplan buying that, we're just we because we own the SNET now, I've given him a temporary license to be able to access an area in the back of the mill store that's required by D and the conservation commission to get cleanup. So, we're helping him, right?

You know, trying to give him a lever to make his business easier. He's going to be doing that work, you know, probably in May. So, that's good for him to get a head start by using the access point. If we didn't have that access point, he would have had to have taken down another building on the property, would have delayed it maybe another year. So, we're trying to work with them to do that. So, I think the 305 union is a great example of that. organic aapocos just picked up and left. That was another organic piece, right? Um you read about the artist and spirits bylaw we put into effect in 2017 and it's not a surprise that Mr. Vzella's risen to the occasion. And so I think there is a little bit more of that organic seems to be.

Mr. Halligan and some other people in town, real estate folks have bought some other parcels down there. I think over the next five, six years, you're going to see a few other parcel cleanups. So that that kind of vibe is going on in the crossing and as we know the SNET track is coming up, you know, getting pulled up this week. Once that's graded, I mean, even if it's not perfectly graded, I guarantee you some people are going to start walking down it, which is a good thing, right? So you get the children museum opening, like I think all of that has been a lot of organic activity because, you know, people knew we were working on the SNET, people knew we were working on the zoning. So I think there's more investment. And there was a joke at a downtown partnership meeting a couple meetings ago when Rep. Roy and I were talking about all these things and we were using these as how you do economic development and a few people joked in the room and said, "Well, it's time to buy homes down in the crossing." And Jeff and I were like, "Yes, cuz then somebody's going to fix the front porch, repaint it." You know, that's how you get that activity going. You know, and I hate to say it and it's very sad and I don't mean it in a very critical way, but you know, the downtown strip, the main triangle

just has not had that same organic investment feel. We thought it was going to come after the the the um the Rotary CH, you know, the the change in the uh two-way street and the beautifification efforts by Eileen Mason and everybody, but it just seemed to have not quite the kindling didn't quite, you know, spark into a fire. So, it just Yeah. So, for some reason, it just hasn't happened. I I I would I would say that if you're probably pull all four of us, downtown revitalization is a is probably number one on the list.

Great. It's it's a long-term thing, but it's probably because from a economic engine standpoint, I've said this before, we need somehow in addition to the normal growth that we have that gets added to the tax world every year, which is a about 60 to $80 million worth of new kind of value. We need to somehow create $300 million more on top of that over the next five years. We because we need to generate $3 million to fix our structural deficit that we keep on talking about. Yeah.

Um so that we don't have to cut or reduce or stay status quo. We're going to grow in size, blah blah blah, but we need to somehow people may not like it. We need to have development. It has to be smart development.

Um and one of the areas that can be a very large engine to that is downtown. to that point. Um, since everyone knows that I'm that's I really wanted to be on this committee. I did some because it's a passion of mine to from economic development. Before I even joined the council, I had actually reached out to uh UMass Boston. They actually have a urban development program. Uh, I reached out to the chair. The chair forwarded me on to uh one of his professors. Um, that professor is John Wiggins. Uh, I've talked to him a couple of times. He actually has a grad level class. It's a 750 700 level class. Um, that class um I talked to them. that class starts in the fall of this coming uh this coming fall and they would be happy to do an an urban development plan for the triangle and the crossings for free. What that entails is I'll read you the snippet of what the course is. It provides students with a hands-on experience in developing plans that enable government agencies to direct housing, economic development, or physical infrastructure initiatives that improve quality of life for residents, workers, and visitors in a specific urban neighborhood. Such plans should reflect participation by a broad range of stakeholders. Demonstrate social and environmental benefits that exceed the cost of development and incorporate values of sustainability, local involvement, critical p uh perspective on the role of planning and urban development. Clients will benefit from the plans that help them achieve short-term development goals as well as help fulfill organizational missions. To me, this is where I see my thing is no one knows what the vision of downtown looks like. If someone saw a 3D model of what

downtown could potentially look like, like that building instead of it being two stories is three stories and four. It's got texture to it. It's not a front facade. If someone saw a 3D rendering of that, they'd go, "Wow." that there would be there would be I I hate to use the word public pressure to take your building and say this is what it could be and it's looking like this and or know that if I built that it would generate this amount of income right now they don't know what they they don't know what they don't know and I say when they as the property owners but if we show them your building that's this many square feet and two stories could be now four stories and generate this much or sell the land and it's not worth they know what the Andersworth. I think the best thing about this is someone will do that plan for us and it won't cost us anything. The only ask that they have is uh Professor Wiggins has asked to actually come in front of this committee

and explain a little bit more what they would do. And then obviously it would would require uh a lot it would require some of the staff time to answer questions that they have. They do that outreach that we talked about all that stuff that you just talked about. they would be willing to do that for literally free. Now, it's not they're not professionals. They're students, but this is grad level stuff. So, they're not a freshman in college doing this. This is could be people as old as me doing this stuff. They just decided to go to grad school for it. So, to me, this is a win-win for the town. Doesn't cost anything. And this would basically tie into the form-based code that you talked about. that whole thing literally we could be sitting here next year at this time with a package that is presentable to the community

and um uh I know Mr. Riggins. I don't know him very well. I I know who he is. Um UMass Boston's actually my alma moater for my master's degree, so I'm pretty familiar with that. They could also bake in the Davis their parcel concept into that. I do agree with you on the 3D modeling and maybe they can be a part of our of a networking charette, you know, just some exercise we just talked about. They could lead it if they want to correct

with you guys. Um and just try to engage those owners into some sort of additional vision visioning. Um, and I think that's where the Franklin for All study didn't miss one mark was they didn't really generate any visual uh to the land owner to say, okay, you're doing well here and things may be kosher, but have you thought about what your property could be valued at if you thought a little bit larger? What you know, like you said, you don't know what you don't know, right? Um, so if you want us to try to schedule uh the professor to come out, um, link us up. I can try to we can try to get another meeting, you know, May or June or whatever and see if they can come out and have

Yeah, he definitely uh his he definitely would sooner rather than later like to have the the meeting with us because he's trying to prep for his class in the fall and he wants to know like when he said, "You sure you want to do this?" I'm like, "I just got to get the committee together, but we'd kind of be I hate to say the word stupid, but then this is free service to give us something that we need." Yeah. So, uh, so it h, so the sooner the better because he's trying to plan for his fall because I don't think he was thinking I'm going to have a real life example and I just gave him a real life example. Y So, will he finish that by December?

So, it'll be part of his fall class. It may it may have to drag a little bit into his into the spring session to finish it up, but the core of what will be done will be done in that fall in that fall session. Oh, Mr. Chair. Yeah. No, I I will ask something to say. I just want to acknowledge council Griffith who hasn't had a chance to say anything yet. Do you want to go first?

Well, I was just going to say having been on the other side of that kind of a program as a graduate student who went out and did real life um you know practical hands-on work um although without the benefit of having a professor um the the results are incredible, right? You have the people who are you know their their role is to study this and make it make it happen. Um, and I've been part of several projects like that that they went into effect. They were incredibly um um productive and effective and I love the idea and I really um appreciate the initiative and reaching out because I think that's actually a really incredible um opportunity for the town.

Okay. And thank you, Max. Uh, I did want to ask I know we talked in one of the meetings about the parking meters and I was just wondering if we could quickly like have a quick part of a meeting where we could just go over and make sure they continue to be the best fit for the town and whether we can do like hourward parking instead if that's a better fit. Um, and then the other thing is is I know this is kind of a third rail, but I do want to acknowledge that the um lip policy is going to expire in a year. So, I just want to make sure that we have something that we can come to consensus on to move forward together uh collectively um that we could all sort of get behind. So, I'll yield to whoever wants to go next.

I forgot about the Thank you for bringing that up. You wrote that down. Yep. And I agree. Yes. I love the idea. I think it's that's awesome. You wanted to say something for us about it? Say something before I Yeah, come right to the mic and give me your name and address. That'd be great. Thank you.

Um Stephen on 520 Maple Street. Um the other day when I was walking back from Vendetti to the senior center, I recalled I think a uh court case maybe years ago, I don't know, 10 years ago that involved Representative Delco out the corner of um Raymond and West Central and Beaver maybe some part of dividing the land to make the curve easier. It it just occurred to me that when I do take that curve, it's hard to navigate it. And I was and I remember in the 1980s when the road was one way, Mr. Valley donated some of his land to uh shave off so the trailer trucks could go through and turned and they ripped up Emmen Street and repaved it. But I didn't know if anyone could comment on that um parcel of land that Mr. a lock had a a a con some lawyer from Westward came in and said cease and desist and if there's any progress on the uh litigation or is there anyone that knows anything about the case involving representative deco in that parcel of land on uh Raymond Street if it's anyone knows anything about it. I just want to caution that the that's not on the agenda, so I don't know if we could talk about it.

I don't know. I I'm not even sure what the reference is. So, I can talk to Steve afterwards, but I I don't I'd have to know a little bit more. Um I just I just don't know of a litigation between the town. Well, I can tell you there's no litigation between the town and anybody on Raymond Street or or whatever. So, I'm not I thought there was years ago. There might have been years ago. Yeah. I don't know anything about it. So, take it under. Sure. Thank you. Is there any uh council, is there any other goals that you have that you want to put out there that haven't uh added to the list or

Yeah, that's only what I'm looking to get out of this or personally I'm trying to get what is our what are the things that we want to get done.

Jim, you just mentioned it about the Davis the site and the status of that. I think to me speed is important. We've been debating this back and forth. We took some had some discussion about it in executive session, but I think we're trying to think of doable things that we can look back in a period of time and say we did something about that and solve that problem. So, I think that's kind of lowhanging fruit. Um I wonder in commercial development uh economic development similar to the downtown areas. Do we have or or or should we re-evaluate or look at the relationships we have with the commercial property owners in town? Similar to what we're talking about for downtown, some of the industrial parks, do we know what the vacancy rates are there? Do we work with those property owners to help them fill vacancies or plan for the future? Um, we I know we don't have full-time resources associated with this, but maybe that's a topic in and of itself, Mike, that we we look at and if we can invest in that right resource, maybe the returns are, you know, clearly pay for themselves. I'm just trying to think more proactively without the minutiae of particular building codes and so forth is to find what those problems are and see if we can advance those solutions and maybe work. You know, I think that might be the key first and then figure out the the zoning and the coding and and what we need to do to make it happen. Okay.

What else is on the list? just marketing for Franklin. Maybe it's related to the economic development and the lack of resources there, but what do we do to market market Franklin restaurants, for example? Do we work with the restaurant association? You know, do we, you know, actively market what we can do and what we can offer in terms of all of the economic, you know, resources that we have, population, the spend, the restaurants, that sort of thing. Is there more proactive activity that we can take on to to look for in some of those kinds of businesses?

I think these are great ideas. I think um you know I think you are and you reference it you're going down the the pathway of having some dedicated staff to do this stuff. Um you know these are the things that Amy and I generally have triaged with Marina's predecessor and some of the other staff. Um, I think you would get a pretty bang for your pretty bang good bang for your buck. Um, you know, marketing, I think some of the budget numbers have been cut over the years. We've had to trim those. Um, but we've never had a real strategic game plan with do we want to do ads in the annual restaurant show at the Boston Convention Center. I'm making that up. Something, right? But to that point, are we in the game? Are we networking with the right people who are saying, "Hey, Franklin, uh, you know, um, same thing with the industrial parts. This is comes to the business summit concept that was in my memo, um, that I failed to mention when Mike asked me. You know, Amy and I had talked about having a a business summit at a location where, you know, hotels, industrial park owners, downtown businesses, like all sectors could get together and network. Hey, you know, we're we have a business clientele at the uh hotel for a month. Are you getting catering? Are you getting food? Are you taking your team out to dinner at Glen Farmer? Are you going over to this restaurant? Are you going to the chateau? You know, are you supporting your local folks? Do you know Algra does printing for your event? And just trying to get people to spend money within themselves instead of online or or whatever. And and trying to get people to know one another. One of the things I've come away with for a long time is there are a lot of great networks in Franklin, but I've learned the industrial park issue. There's a very big they're over there and they don't know really what's going on over here and they're not totally connected to the hotels, which they should be, and the hotels are not totally connected to, you know, our local restaurant base. Um, so

I think, you know, the idea of just trying to get a gathering together was like the start, right? But that obviously takes, you know, some time and, you know, some coordination and some effort. I mean, that's a that's a big I've done a lot of event coordination in my career and I mean, it's a lot of work. Um, but to your point, those are the kind of things I think you're talking about. How do you facilitate those? But I think um those are certainly gaps in um in selling our reputation, which is a very outstanding reputation. I mean, you read the quote in there from Mr. Costa next door, but we get comments like that from from business owners all the time. So, our reputation on permitting is one of the best you'll find in the area. So, I'm not really worried as much about the permitting stuff, maybe some of the code issues. I'm more worried I'm more concerned, like you said, about getting our name out there in these broader swaths of investment groups and they're saying, "Hey, that town's a safe town. Their schools are topnot. Hey, maybe that's the place to be." I would think

you gota you got to go and in my view and I think you should you got to go to the conference you know that that's like me or Marina going to the seapport paying the 300 bucks getting a booth or just having materials that's showing up and networking right that's maybe some of you guys going to those events and saying hey you know volunteer counselors are taking their time out to go to this stuff you know it's stuff like that I like to think we can eat and drink ourselves out of our um financial problems. And now that you mentioned the easy liquor license process for restaurants here, I would think that's a big advantage in that, right? It's a huge advantage. The next closest community to ours is Malber.

And I would and south it's like not even existing. You know, this is a map that was in the Worcester Business Journal at some point a few years ago and I was I think there's only 20 communities in Massachusetts that have that. I think there's a lot of residents, a lot of business, you know, within 20, 30 miles here, you know, probably big spenders who would like more higherend restaurants and absolutely that opportunity. I think that may be a a target that we should should look at and see how we can facilitate that. Yeah,

I agree. I think I think those are great ideas, especially the industrial parks, too. And just to be clear, we don't know the vacancy rate. um years ago we kind of when I first got here I think Brian kind of knew it just from his own institutional knowledge but um we don't pair people up we some towns do it is something communities can do if you're in that network with mass development and you're in those networks of the major property owner up there um you know they go to their thing and wherever they network and and we're not a part of that. But I think over the years here and there, I think, you know, we were a little bit a part of it and trying to help business owners if they called. But there's no

there's no um you know, set thing we do as a staff that tries to make play matchmaker. I think it might be worth looking into to absolutely try to do that and try to develop those relations. Absolutely. A little bit. And um you know, we wouldn't know if they're vacant because their tax payments are due, whether they're empty or not. Correct. Right. So we don't really have great connectivity into that. But I think if we kind of develop those relationships, talk to them, what leases are coming up, are they going to renew? You know, are you guys going to stay? Anything we can do to help, you know, just being out in front of it a little bit might might not be a bad idea because we have a great infrastructure with all of that, you know, that presence here.

Great buildings. Uh the hotels do very well here. I mean, the pandemic was obviously a blip for four or five years, but they've rebounded pretty well. Um, we did at one time I was getting the the three hotel now four hotel owners. I was connecting with them once a year. Um, and then the management started changing every year and then the pandemic hit. So that some of those but we were we've always been trying to do a little bit of these things. Um, and I don't mean to harp on it, but obviously staff bandwidth is a big is a big issue. I mean that's you're not going to get any of these items if we don't have more bandwidth at some point. And maybe we can help leverage some of that as our committee too to invite them to meetings and just Yeah.

What do you need? How can we help you with what you're looking to do? So maybe we can help with some of that. Absolutely. Absolutely. You got free time, right? I do. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. Well, two two things that I missed. Um, one I know we've talked about at the council about getting a fixed bus route for Gatra and I know I think that that can be something that is some somewhat economic development related uh that we I think we could work together on. Um, and just getting some information before we present it to the council through this committee. Um, the other thing I just have an easy win for Corey. Um, I see one goal here, highlight the district's cultural heritage through street decorations. That sounds like an easy win. I I think we could probably check that off. Does that sound fair?

Yep. It's a D It's as you see here, it's uh DACCC, which is Corey and DPW. I think um we've done it in the triangle area as you've seen with and I think, you know, once once the SNET track gets ripped up, I think we'll take a look at that as an easy win to try to see if there's something down in the crossing that we can help. Um it's a good idea. Maybe there's a way we can start branding Union Street a little bit. you know, telephone p again. Maybe it's just trying to identify a section and um maybe it's painting sidewalks. I don't know. You know, it's just to try to give it that that kind of cultural feel. But I I agree that's an easy win. You all said, Steve, you have more?

Um no, I think that's pretty much it. Okay.

All right. Good. I know you said we were going to start and move. We didn't really do that. Next time I'll speak up. All right. So, I've got um actually a lot of what I had has been said. Um but so in in the idea of marketing um you know we have this you know desire for an economic development director we try to it hasn't taken what about something that's like part-time or even a shared service with local communities like if we are talking about getting um Franklin out there into Boston going to networking you know is there some way that that we could do some sort of shared service where it's less expensive for us we have um someone still doing the work although it's not a full-time role. So that was um a thought that I had. Um but for the most part I think um oh I also wanted to look at possibly do we have some sort of way and maybe this would be again down the path of the economic development director but um some sort of easy um process to get um industries or companies into like someone who kind of helps them gets them through everything gets them through all the permitting and gets them through the whole process um to make it easier to attract something to get them in. Um, so those are my two thoughts there, but I do think that, um, along with what Max just said, I think in the meantime, we should be focusing, I think, on some of those that beautifification of downtown, getting um, Corey um, to do some of the the murals, working on um the, you know, the SNET trail, improving the vibrancy and access, um, getting, you know, whether it's like a story path or something like that to get people over there, especially um, as it connect to the um children's museum. Anyway, so those were some of the things that I wanted to see. Some of the um smaller

beautifification things that we could do. Um I'd like to see more things like um our harvest festivals, things like that. more um large activities where we shut down the roads. We get everyone um in town out and in the downtown area, getting them into those those um local businesses. Um and maybe that is also another way to kind of push those um landlords into um filling those vacancies and beautifying those um the the buildings that are not in the best of shape at the moment. So those were they're great some of my ideas.

Okay. All righty. I got mine. Um I don't know we a few of us have mentioned uh an economic development coordinator. Um I I will say this. I um I don't know if I'll get it tonight, but hopefully before we get to the end of the budget season, I hope I can convince the three of you and then maybe hopefully one other person that when we fund the 2027 budget, there is funding for that position, not part-time but full-time. Um economic development is a case where you have to spend money to make money. If you have to spend $100,000 for a person, that person will bring in hundred times that value in the long run. Um, all the things that we've talked about. Uh, one of the my goals, what is our commercial land um, what is a commercial vacancy rate? Because unfortunately, while they pay a tax bill, that tax bill is predicated as to whether or not there's someone in that building. That tax bill is predicated upon the revenue of that building, not the value of the building. the revenue. So if there's no one in that building renting space, when they go to value that building, it gets valued for less than if it had a someone in it. So it behooves us to have that space 100% occupied. Um that's why when you do look at property values downtown there, I look at those and I go, well, how come that building that land is worth? It's because it's based upon the valuation of the assessors and how they have to do it. It's how they have to do it. So if there were more people in there, it would be So there is a benefit to filling that space to sell that space. So we do need someone out there marketing that. We do need to know what's out there for available commercial land. I know there's a lot of residential land, but I do think we need to know how much commercial land is out

there that can be developed. And well, we may know it, but we need to know what's buildable. What are the possibilities of that? And that's what an economic development coordinator would do. Uh so to me uh I'm going to continue to advocate it. I think I said it um as my stake in the sand for the budget. I'm going to somehow convince four other counselors to support that as well because yes, it's spending money and people want us to cut or find a way. But that is you have to spend money to make money. That is what smart business people do. We're a business. We're $150 million business. That's what we are. We're a government, but we're also $150 million business. Um, to Jaime's point about connecting hotels and businesses, I don't know if they do this today, but to the hotels, give the businesses a discount. They tell them, "You come to my hotel. Instead of going to Milford, you come to Franklin." There's like that's what I did with when I travel to Baltimore. My company has a special rate for that hotel and everyone stays at that hotel. So, how do we interconnect those two things? But again, that's not it shouldn't require us to do it. Shouldn't require Jamie to do it. Shouldn't it should require an economic development person to do that all that stuff because we get those businesses that still come to stay in those hotels. That's hotel tax. That's money that's not even coming out of Franklin's residence. So, in some way, shape, or form, I'm going to continue to pound that until I until I lose my breath. We have to spend money to make money. So, hopefully I can convince the three of you and tow someone else along to get that into the budget for this year. Um, other thing I'd like to know and I hope this is a easy win is of the current commercial properties that have

come before the planning board in the last say 5 years or so, how many of those projects have not started? Like what projects are approved and have literally not even the shovel's not in the ground? Because I want to understand why the shovel's not in the ground. I want to I literally want to know why that building hasn't gone up. And it could be because the market's changed. So, what do we need to do to make that property attractive again? Cuz they may want to put a warehouse. No one's putting a warehouse up anytime soon. So, what else do we need to do to make that piece of property attractive?

So, I would like to know kind of what's out there and figure out how we moved get the shovel in the ground cuz again, without a shovel in the ground, I can't get to $300 million. We got to get shovels in the ground. Um, I do want to one of the one of the reasons why I ran was how how can the town council help the process of developers coming in front of all of our boards and expediting the process. I see some I I see all these projects whether it was 440 or whatever, they just take way too long. We got to stream I got to streamline that process. If it's supposed to be 60 days, it it's a it in my opinion, it's both parties have to be ready to get this done in 60 days. You can't continue. We can't it's 60 days, folks. Let's get it going. So, whatever I want to understand that I'd like to have um as we talked about with I'd like to have a a presentation on that whole process. How do we streamline that process so that it truly whatever the the timeline is? You know, you're going to come in front of a Franklin planning board or ZBA and you're going to start on this day and 60 days later it's either approved or not approved. The one thing I learned in a project in in Bellingham that's right behind mine when you it it's lasted forever and a lot of is it the goalposts keep on getting moved. It's it's an iterative process. Bring your plan able to approve it up or down and move it on. So, I'd like to have a presentation about that so we can because that's part of economic development. We have to just as you said, Jamie, the more attractive you can you can get a liquor license here in 2 seconds for a for a restaurant. I want to give you a building permit in 5 seconds. So, how do we do that? I there's got to be a way to do it. Um, we talked about Gatra. I agree with you,

Max. We need to have a presentation on that because I that to me is is a pure economic development situation. Um I I do want to figure out how we do empower the design review commission more cuz right now to me that commission is like a that's like a sign commission. They got to I want I want to figure out how they get involved whether it's the form how they approve all the bu the way the buildings look on 140. you're you're involved in that look and feel that that you have to get you somehow that it's design review. It's not a sign review. So I want to understand that committee and how we do that. In fact, that was a goal.

Um it's to be an approving board of other of otherwise enforcing design reviews. Okay, let's have enforce it. Um I do want to talk about our historical district. So we did talk about that about a month or so or two months ago to at a council meeting and again that was that's more of a we need to form that and I did I just mentioned the created a historical record of the Franklin planning cycle but and that's where I talked about the process. Um that was that and I had one more um and I mentioned it uh in a meeting a couple of about a month ago. the signed bylaw. I want to look at that again. Um, like I said here, we need to find a way to make businesses more attractive for folks from the street and at the same time as I complained about take down signs when they're the businesses aren't there in the first place. So, I do think we need to um bring that up. So, as specifically, I know hopefully a small Jamie, as it relates to the signed bylaw, how much of a of a lift is that or do we even know what the scope of that would be to make the bylaw more creative so that allows for varying signage and stuff like that? What is

start staffs the design review committee? They've started talking about this. Um,

there's two different issues. There's one that's the approval of the signs which has a statutory issue linked to it in terms of an overall site plan relative to the planning board. So in terms of them just rubber stamping signs and being the authority versus their recommendation of the planning board is a is going to require uh the town attorney on that. However, I think in terms of the guidelines and in terms of the rules around signs, the enforcement of it, I think that's where the design review guide book, I'm kind of passing you the baton. That was like kind of the cue of I think that's where we're looking for a grant to help fund this, but I think,

you know, for whatever reason in the past, and I've said this to Sam Williams a million times, like he's always called the committee kind of like difficult or useless. And I said, "It's useless because you're not diving in to change the rules. You you can go ahead and change all the rules, propose all the zoning changes, propose the guide book. Um, let your let it just go ahead. You know, nobody's preventing you from stopping that." And I think now they are finally feeling like they have that.

Yeah. Right. So, um, on Tuesday, they actually met, um, here in council chambers and had, um, Corey was here and Alan Earles was here, and they actually had a discussion about sort of what they want to see, um, changed regarding signs, regarding um, the the look of buildings, regarding the site plan review that they do. Um, and as Jamie just mentioned, we are going to apply for a one-stop grant um with MAPC to hopefully help us with this project. And so the project is can be sort of as small or as big as we get funding for. Um, at the very least, we'd like to get the design guidelines um brought up to date and modernized because they're 20 years old at this point. Um, so working on that. I think changing things like the the um dimensional requirements and where you can have signs and how many signs you can have that's that's a relatively easy lift. They had some concrete ideas of how they wanted to handle that. Um it was a recorded meeting so it we can post it online or we can send you a link if you all want. There'll be minutes. Um, but they did have sort of a an over hourlong conversation and with um Corey and Allan about talking even about art and murals and you know, how do we get more vibrancy and and I think that they're um really excited about tackling this project on. Um, and you know, we will need sort of some assistance to get us um through the the larger pieces of it. Um, but you know, we're going to apply. We're going to try for some money. See what we can get.

Can you require the signs to be in comic sands? Please God, no. That I mean those are the those are I mean that's kind of what I think the sign bylaw hasn't been rewritten in probably nine years. I think I got I think right when I got here we there was some tweaks, right?

Not a lot, but yeah, there's not a lot. Then there's issues of LED signs. I mean there's a lot of stuff around signs. Then there's air. Then there's you will get a lot of blowback for light pollution. There's a whole another demographic of people that don't want bigger signs, don't want more signs, don't want Las Vegas, right? Like that kind of thing. So, um, but we agree that this is a this would be a great priority and I think it would be a great economic development tool. Um, and it's sorely needed and outdated. There's no question about it. I just hope design review really takes the lead on this because they're the ones that are seeing all the applications. They've got some institutional knowledge and I think with these folks, these two folks here, I just hope they really So, if you're friends with any of them on the design review, like encourage them to really um take this on with a lot of passion because I think there's a lot of appetite in town to make some changes on it.

Was there any value to bring them here?

Yeah, I mean I think I mean you've kind of alluded to it already. I mean, I think how do we permit? You can't really do that without a planning board member, a ZBA member, a conservation member. We can go through a synopsis of tech review and we can tell you like when we go through tech review with a with a with a prospective business owner, we tell them all the time, you file with planning board and conservation concurrently, right? So, they're going through the permitting process together. And I'll tell you, and and Gus will say this and you probably Stephen R, most businesses will tell you they don't do this in every other town. So, it is it is we do do a lot of things to make the permitting easier. Um, the length of the hearings, you know, is a two-prong issue. One, you can't you at some point, and I mean this respectfully, public comment has to get trimmed back. Like, it just at some point, and I go to a lot of these, it's the same arguments over and over and over again for months on end about how to obstruct projects. I'm sorry. That's just what happens. The ZBA, for example, goes on their hearings way longer than they should because it's just consistently the same stuff. To your point about like the rules changing or the goalposts, that's hard to referee because in this world in Massachusetts is not a popular place for this. Like California, we are a very highly regulated state on these matters, right, with wetlands, conservation, D. And the reason why we're regulated heavily on this stuff is because everything with inside 495 is basically built out. And so the struggle our state is having is do we go up or do we go further up? And that's a tough question, right? I mean that's like the Milton issue with MBTA communities. Everybody who lives in Milton bought a house that was a single family house generally and they bought into an acre lot or a halfacre

lot in a pretty affluent town and they invested their money in that real estate. They at least the people that live there now say why do we now need to be four or five six stories but you're literally on the the you're on the city of Boston's line like you're not out in the BS. I think all of Metro Boston is going through this reflection point of we're built out. So what do we do? And as a result of that, everything we do is just unfortunately highly regulated and a lot of it has to do with the s the many of the situations that you all are familiar with in Franklin. I mean it's it's in every single town. So I don't know if there's a lot that we'll be able to do about oh now the conservation commission wants us to do another thing over here. the ZBA asked us for a balloon study or those kind of moving goalposts. Some of that is just I think a part of the structure that we have for permitting, but I think we can have all of those boards come in at different times. I think they'd be more than welcome to talk to us about ways that we can improve or the way the council can improve. So, I think those are fantastic ideas and and certainly long overdue. Okay,

with that, does anyone have any other items they'd like to bring up tonight? Uh, did I have something I said I was going to bring up before? No, I'm just looking I'm looking at each of you. I I did want to say I know um we looked at the uh the goals in blue, the economic development for committee goals, but I think traditionally some of the other goals on the master plan. I mean there's a lot of them. I don't expect us to do more than we put on. Um but in terms of housing, in terms of public transportation, sustainability, those also, even though they're not economic development, have traditionally come before the EDC. So, I just want to point that out in case we ever want to revisit other ones in the future. And that's that's all I got. Okay. All set? Yes, sir.

Would that be without hearing anything? Do I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. Second. Not debatable. All those in favor say