Water Pollution Control Authority - Regular Meeting

This is the WPCA meeting uh for May. In the room is Dennis Maluzu. John Blood our new member. Welcome John. Thanks Mr. President. Susan Ditri I can't say your last name

Brian Cornell Mary Dailyy and on the phone Sally Sally Martha is that it Linda Scan and Michael Kie, which I've already gotten off. So, I believe we have a quorum. We're almost full board now. I think we have one vacancy, but um so happy to have you on board, John. Welcome. Very, very welcome here. But we need to put uh John Grande as absent.

John is empty. He might call in later. John Grande and Bill Reynolds is absent. Um, okay. Attendance approval of minutes from the April meeting and I don't have the date off the head top of my head. It's April 14th. April. Okay. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes from April 14th? I'll make a motion. Seconded. Second. Second, Dennis. All in favor? I oppos.

Okay, great.

Um, information items, communication and correspondence, finance in the budget. And thank you, Laura, for stepping up and volunteering to be treasurer. So appreciated. I think you can kind of understand what Laura and I have been trying to get our arms around. There's actually more than one account and different buckets that things have to be allocated to bills that have been due for some time that we really don't have a background in that still need to be paid. But at this point, I think we're still within our budget for the WPCA, our general budget. And um we do have some I think we have outstanding legal bills. Um we did just get some of them paid recently and u we'll move forward with what is still outstanding and even with those outstanding bills that we've seen when they're paid we will still be within the WPCA budget. The next big expense I think will be Erica's time and regarding the poverty pumpout cards um and the mailings which was about $1,000. And we'll talk about the pumpout cards when we get to old business. But yeah, that will be I think our next biggest expense at this point that I'm aware of anyway. So

Mary, this is Martha. But your pumpout cards have already been paid. I'm They've already been paid. The mailing for the pumpout cards has already been paid.

Okay, great. So, um, communications. Well, we have Martha here from the board of swipemen. If you want to communicate, we're here to listen, Martha. Um, no. I just uh the only things that I have to note that I've been sort of thinking about um uh just so you know like in the last month um maybe it was six weeks uh I had a quick meeting with Deep um and then Jim asked if he could have a meeting. We also offered a meeting to John. Um Jim I know met with them I think it was like two weeks ago. Um and he went over some of his thoughts and there I mean there's there's no decisions on their part or anything. They said they'd reached back out to us in a few weeks. That's all we know from them. And um but uh and then the only other thing is I we have to develop some type of a process. If you mailed out I don't know how many cards that were actually in that mailing. Erica would probably know and I'm don't know. I'm assuming she's online or possibly is, but um I'm not sure how many were on. But then there have we have to run the report again to see how many of those have been corrected uh to see if people have called in with their pumpout. And I am working with the lawyer town lawyer to see there is a $100 fine per day. Um, and we are working to see if I can be the authority to start those fines into motion if people are not compliant. So, I'll let you know as soon as I find out. Thank you. So, I had I know Erica sent out it

goes out in batches of 300. I think she's sending out around 1,200. She said, "Oh, it's better than last year. We sent out 1,400." And so, I said, "Well, how often do you do that?" She said, "Well, we really don't have a schedule." But then I also asked her for a report and I received the report and I had looked at that report which I requested last year from uh Cherami and then some several of the same names are on the report again. Several of the same addresses that were sent pumpout cards last year are still on the report. So just sending these cards out which cost the town money isn't effective by itself. There has to be something more behind the cards. Otherwise, we're just continuing this circle. And I think it's if this is our ordinance that you have to now seven and we want to go to five years, then it's up to us to enforce that ordinance. If we're not we're not following our own ordinance. we're not following up and that is our job to follow up on it. And if it takes a fine or a second warning or whatever, that has to happen. But there shouldn't be ever a case where the same property is on this list year after year after year. And I'm seeing it and I can point out the names to you, but that's not what this meeting is for. It's just that in general, we don't enforce it. the the WPCA hasn't really done much with it and I think it is part of our job to do that and it's not just the beach although there are like I told you about 10% of all the pumpouts overdue are within the beach communities it is spread townwide into areas which really should I I got a call from someone who said gee that's going to be a hardship to go from 7 to 5

and I looked up their property it was close to a million ion like how much of a hardship is it when you spread it out over five years. I called a couple of uh contractors. You can shop for a contractor who is on our list of vendors and the range is significant. The prices run from high 300s to 500. You just have to do a little bit of leg work. And also one of the contractors, one of the lower ones said, "Hey, if one of your neighbors is pumping out with you, we'll take another $30." So you can shop and negotiate with them. But you just can't ignore that you need to get this done. And honestly, over five years, $400 is like $80 a year. If that was really truly a hardship for someone, maybe the town could help fund that person. But I find it hard to believe that it's $80 a year, which works out to less than $10 a month, is a true hardship for anybody in Oine.

Do you remember in the past years, Mary, was Mr. Tsunami ever concerned or the previous board, I mean, not not Steve, but the previous board, they were concerned about this? Because I I think it's absurd that nothing's been done. But now to come down the street and say, "By the way, it's you and you and you. Shame on you. You owe us money." That's going to make the town and the curve board look like we're shaking a stick at him because although we didn't enforce it, you know. Well, I guess I'm not understanding your point. Are you

in previous years? Was there any concern on the board about it? I think they were so focused on sewers that it monopolized their time and I don't want to say they neglected the rest of the town, but we are a town like WPCA. We are not view

WPCA and it is something for the town and again it's not just the beach communities which several are overdue. It is the whole town. It's I I can name you streets, but it's in the report. And I mean, it's it's townwide. It's not helping anybody at all. It's not helping your neighbor. It's not being a good neighbor to pump out. So, I just don't find it hard hard to believe that $10 a month is a hardship for anybody here. Well, because the $100 a fine per year, per day.

Per day. So, if you're due, like I'm due to pump out in se September 17th, I'm going to probably contact some people on my street and say, "Hey, do you want to pump out with me?" That's going to bring my cost down for a,000 tank to about $350, $360 for 5 years or 7 years. Right now, five years. I'm happy to do my part, but but if someone doesn't, they'll exceed that cost in four days. Yes. So the penalty does have to be like you know sometimes fines are so insignificant that it's better just to be fined than to pay in this case

because it's your it's your septic system. It's to it's for the good of your septic system. It's for your own health. So the the properties you mentioned I think that this was mentioned last meeting but what's the story of um how many of them may not be accurately reported or or I mean

yes that's another issue and the uh comedy is not and that's something we have to get with our contra our preferred contractors to um because again like so we have a list um Sally did a great job sitting in town hall going through records to identify systems and when they were last maintained according to the records here if they were sub school spools or or what was going on with that particular property and I've reached out to some of the people on that list that were questionable and in all cases so far it was more accessible and no maintenance they have all been maintained and they are all subjects so the records are not up to date we know that Um, so that's another thing that this committee should be focusing on getting those records up to date because how can you do anything if you don't have accurate data? That's been a problem I think for the WPCA going back years now. Something that we all complain about that data is inaccurate and now we're facing it. And so what do we do to get accurate data? If it means that we have to reach out to individual property owners, then that's what we need to do. And people are receptive to it. Oh no, I upgraded my system. It didn't get into the town records. I don't know why I wasn't responsible for that. But going forward, we need to make sure that our contractors do update our records.

Okay. Doesn't update records. I have a question for for Martha. Um are the fines appealable to your know if you know

there it's in your ordinance. It's anything is appealable. It's just like a parking ticket. Um so you could appeal. Problem was is that the ordinance was written when we had sanitarian. The sanitarian was your enforcer. Now you have Ledge Light. Ledge does not do the enforcement. So what I reached out to was can town hall being the select me um as first select person be the enforcer. Now please don't get start getting saying like if you have to be pumped out on September 16th the fines start on the 17th because they could be pumped out on the 15th or 16th but we wouldn't get notification of it. And this is the problem because the haulers do not put this it in the day they haul it. It might be a month before it's updated. So the what we have to do and I can tell you we've already had an probably 30 to 50 people walk in with paperwork to prove that they have been and that is information has been given to Erica so that she can enter it into Card. But the report that Erica ran for that first mailing of 300, I don't know when those cards went out, but say given a month, that that exact same report should be run again to see how many of those have been corrected. And then that's when you start reaching out and saying you're not in compliance. And we have to come up with a process. So, I'm working with legal, but your ordinance doesn't you have to have a process. You've got to have a policy, a process of how you're going to handle this. And um you're budgeted for Erica. There's money in the budget. You don't have to worry

about her. She's you've got plenty of money on her budget line for what she does for this. It's just that I think we have to come up with a process that Erica feels comfortable with and that we can help in town hall to do uh as efficiently as possible. When you asked about um appeals, I believe in the ordinance as it is today, there is an appeal process. I'll find in there

because I I would I would venture, you know, that report that she ran is 37 pages long. I mean, I didn't print it out because of that, but I mean, that's a substantial number of people in the town. I mean, if if each page had 20 20 households, you know, that's that's significant. You can skinny that down by taking out unnecessary columns. This is I printed it and it's But Dennis, yeah, that information isn't all correct. I understand.

That's just that we don't we don't have we don't have the updated data, but let's just say half of those let's say we have 30 page or what do you want to say like uh 18 pages, right? Yeah. They have and those people have to be contacted again. How much would it cost us to do a second warning? $1,000. Well, not a warning, but a second. It's about $1,000 for the printing and mailing. It would be less because it wouldn't be as many people hopefully on it. Um, so it might be less, but then also Erica's time in processing. So, maybe $2,000 to do that.

No. Well, it can be less. There's a number of things you can do. You can decrease the size of the postcard the second time around. It doesn't have to be the big one. It doesn't have to be color. You can change you. You right now have a very glossy printed and it definitely grabs people's attention, but second time around you could do a much less a regular postcard which is going to cost you a lot less. Yeah. Are those postcards, if they're not addressed properly, are they returned or does they just lay in somebody's mailbox?

Nope, they do. They get returned to us and Katie collects those and she puts them into Erica's box for collect changes. Okay. Sometimes sometimes the address is wrong because the property has actually been um the deed has changed. somebody sold the house and um it's no longer or they've moved and there's a new tax address and it just hasn't been updated in the system yet. Okay, thank you.

I would think that would be a small number actually cuz they're going to get their tax bill and that's the she Erica is using the assessor's addresses. So wherever the assessor sends your bill, that's where Erica is sending pumpout card. Would a reming break the bank on our budget? Would a Would a remale bank break break the bank on the budget? I don't think so. No, I don't think so. So, why don't we do it? You You'd have to have a process where you decide after a month. Do you then reformulate it and send it out? Do you wait two months for them to

fix it and then get it into the town hall? What do What do you decide to do? I had to contact my hauler and it was I was waiting for it for a month and it didn't happen and I called it the second month and and that's when I I said you know you're running the risk of me being a delinquent by by not adhering to the process and he immediately after the after the second month uh contact I wrote it in and uh contacted Erica Well, on our part, like I did talk to one of our uh haulers who does a lot of business in this town and on a specific address and I asked I said, you know, this person, oh yeah, yeah, we did pump it out. I said, you didn't upgrade. Oh, oh, so he sent me the record, but maybe we need to form a letter to those particular contract haulers

first and say it is your responsibility. We expect you to update. We're reminding you of that. And oh by the way, and yes, because this is your responsibility and it's important to us that our our records are updated. So we can I'll draft a letter like that, run that by you next month and uh we can send it out to our colleagues say don't forget, you know, because I think that's part a big part of the problem as well is you know how many?

Yes. Mary, please give before you run the draft of the letter by um your group, could you run it by me and then maybe we could run it through legal so it'll already re be done and verified so you don't have another month before legal will see it? Gladly. Okay. Thank you. So, do you know how many haulers are on our list now? I think well I would have to say at least 20. Okay. about 20. So that's $20 worth of mail. I think there's a list 20 on there. That's just off the top of my head.

The ones that I worried about are the the people that contract for people out of the area. I mean, I've heard people come from Enfield, come from Norwich to pump out. They come in, clean it out, you know, and they're not part of the they're not part of our authorized haulers, you know, that's the that's the homeowners issue. Do we have Dennis, you don't have to be one of our you don't have to be one of our haulers to use.

You don't have to be authorized by us either. You have to be licensed, you know, but we can't dictate to our neighbor who to retain. Oh, no. I I know that. I know that.

Okay. So, just since we're skipping the on the order of this, but um so just I want your opinion on how do you handle then knowing that it's like 99% or whatever some high very high percentage that the private beach associations will sewer within the next 15 to 18 months. Maybe there are members in those communities that are way overdue, who were overdue last year. How do we want to address that? Yep. Pump it. They're delinquent.

Pump and then there'll be less that they have to pump when when and if sewers go in, right? I'm just saying ahead of time because I think there may be some push back from those communities, you know, we're soaring d. But I think they won't be soaring for at least a year or won't be connected for at least a year. And some of them, like I said, were on the list last year. Yeah.

So, um Okay. Um the one one call that I did get, you know, one call that we I got and that we'll probably get quite often. So, I'm only here in the summer. Last time they told me I didn't have to pump or I got a call from someone who said they came and inspected and said I don't have to pump. Does that mean that that counts? I'm gonna say no, that doesn't count. There's still something in your tank. And if there isn't something in your tank, then you should be questioning that. That's what That's what I was asking Legate the other week. What? That's what I was asking Legate about if they didn't have anything for inspections or anything or they just you have to pump. They always have to pump. They don't.

Right. So, you're what you're speaking of is some of these properties haven't been pumped for nine years. Well, yeah. I mean some according to comedy course greater than that yeah sure they have to call

but we don't know if comedy is correct so it's house by house and I think it's the callers but I think it's too the only way you're going to get that information is if you do send out a second card to somebody and say you have to pay attention to this or you're going to be fine starting out this day go get your information from your holler get yourself pumped out because people are just not taking this very seriously they're like oh there's only two people I'm only here during the Okay. I think a lot of properties could say that, but if we made an exception for the all of those properties, then we really wouldn't have an ordinance. I mean, it would be do what you want. Why Why is it the the hauler's responsibility to report it? Why not the the homeowner?

You need something factual. Homeowner can't just say it's been done. You get a receipt from whoever pumps it out. I never got one to share. You do you get a receipt from you get a receipt. Why is it I don't understand why it's the hauler's responsibility when they're they're not going to be fined. I think that's part of the agreement when we list them. I'm not sure because I didn't put the list together, but maybe as being on our list on our web page. That's part of the agreement. They fill out an application in order to be on that list. But it's a really good question. Well, you don't have to use them though. can hire anybody who's licensed across the state.

You don't have a homeowner making up their own receipt from, you know, Demetri had his pump. So, I scratch his name off and send it in. And, you know, it's it's it comes from the company. It's official.

It's it's there's two ways to do it. and the car company agreed to use comedy when we took it on that we were paying for that they said that they would jump in and there's other towns that use it so it's not just us um and many of them have office staff that that's what their job is in their office is the guys come in from the day they give their receipts and they upgrade and they update the system but they're behind I've made phone calls and they've said I'm just a month behind. I haven't had time or I'm, you know, short on staff. But they have to enter it. But the other option is very easily, first of all, it is the homeowner's responsibility that we are notified that they're done because it's an ordinance in town. So they are if they their hauler didn't do it, their job is to get us a copy of the receipt and we will enter it into Cardy. The only people who have access to comedy are the haulers and town hall.

Is it just Erica who can update it from town hall? No. Well, I don't not I think there might be two people in town hall have access to it. I think Katie can do it too, but we can't keep using Katie can't be every se everybody's secretary. So, administrative assistant, she's not everybody's. So we have to find some time and um you know see what happens. Okay. So I will

I think it a convers I think we need to sit down with Erica Mary you and I and Erica and Katie and come up with the process because it just hasn't been done in years. It's time though, right Martha? Don't you agree? Oh overdue. Totally overdue.

Great. Okay. Sure. And I will in the meantime start drafting a letter and run it by you and bring it back to the board before we do anything with it. Okay. Uh private beach association. Martha already talked about communication with deep and I don't have any direct communication with deep. uh private beach associations, everybody here knows they're pushing moving forward trying to get their sewers implemented. Um getting all their contracts signed approval to move forward with the contractors. I'm not sure that they have signed letters yet from um deep on funding, but I know that they're requesting that. So that would be important to me, but u I know they're working on it.

So all those Mary who voted negatively in the referendum back before Christmas who are now contacting some of us saying what's going on. I would hate to think that we would lose them as being supporters of our movement last fall to turn down that referendum extra because Deep is dragging their feet. And even though we understand that Martha's and Jim are very good at getting to them, um I I hate to see all the effort from last fall, last summer, last fall go to waste if if we can't get something resolved, you know.

Well, I'm hoping we will get something resolved and I think we do have some penitentive plans. Um but the town would like to work with deep and not not just strictly say you know scoops that but you know the referendum failed that's it we're trying to work with deep um I think we will have a plan I think there will be steps that we'll be taking in in the near future and we will be setting a direction soon just we have to be patient at this point and I think that Duke's primary focus has been on the private beach associations getting the contract signed and getting things moving there. So we will Phil Brian we haven't forgotten the people who voted it down.

Yeah, absolutely. Board of selectment haven't forgotten that that was what the town because we had support from across the town. Yes, we did to vote that down and and never fails when I'm down here, you know, people or they're calling saying what's going on, you know, we say I don't know, you know. So, okay, Brian Brian, there's in there's communication going on, but Deep has not given us any thoughts. Yes, Martha. Yep. Yep.

So, it's just we're in a holding position and that's really where we are. Um, but you know, there's not going to be a a backhoe on Hartford A. You can right now. It's not that's not going to happen. So, thanks. Stay calm.

Um, the private beach associations as they did last month, their meetings, the uh construction meetings are now open to the public. Again, we're very happy and thankful for that. Um, they were supposed to have a meeting yesterday. It got pushed back to Monday. When that information becomes available with a link to me, I will send that out to all of you. I think it's an important thing that we all listen if we can to that meeting so we know where the private beaches are, what's going on there. Okay, that leads us to public comment.

It's it's tomorrow. Tomorrow or evening? Right now it's supposed to be next Monday 7. Next Monday 7, but we don't have the I don't have a link or I guess the agenda is the same. I'm not sure why they postponed the meeting from yesterday.

I don't know. I understand there's a uh um dissatisfaction amongst a lot of people in the private beach associations or number one the cost number two the the dragging of the feet number three the uh allocation of funds has changed and that's that's has a direct effect as to what everybody is going to pay. You mean because their share of the infrastructure had to increase without the town taking?

Well, besides that, but every time every time uh they don't sign and dee doesn't acknowledge anything is another escalation cost in the contract. So I mean they there's no sign

if if if deep is slow to the process and they're changing they're changing their their thought process as to what's going to pay for what and which fund is it coming out of. Is it going to come out of clean water fund first or the 15 million forgivable loan that has a direct effect as to the increase that's born by the private beach associations thus the the homeowners. So there's a lot of grumbling about that. You know, I I think you know the the powers to be of the um private beach associations uh would have liked to have this done in March,

you know, that type of thing. Well, I think they want it in writing. Yeah. So, at this point, everybody wants everything in writing, right? Right. Yeah. You're talking about thousands hundred tens of thousands of dollars. I don't think that that's an unreasonable No, I agree. Question, right? So, I'm not sure they received anything in writing. I don't know. Okay. I have a question. I I have the minutes from the I think it's the old colony beach

that that you had told us we could in on. someone bored with me those and so I just wanted to share them with you. Okay. So fact is that um they say that um deep is going to insist that theos are just between the three beaches and that the town is not included and so isn't that deep stance? I mean if that's what they're saying

for the moment. Yeah. Okay. And then it it also says here that Joe or somebody from uh Frank whoever is from Miami Beach has not signed yet. Oh, from Miami Beach. No has not signed um because and he's ad adamant that he's not Mary. Yeah. Mary, I've got to interrupt. Those those minutes should not be being read during your meeting. That's not that's their those minutes are only available to their members and if you receive them from somebody they should not be discussed. It is not our town business is not theirs.

Okay. And their state that's fine. Thank you.

I'm sorry. I thought that that was just like we have limits for the infrastructure. We could sign in and listen to the infrastructure. Okay. Uh so let's move on. Uh public comment is next on the agenda. These uh Michael and a few other people online. Um everyone in the room is part of the board. So if there's anybody online would like to make public comment, please do so now. Okay. I can't hear you. Someone talk.

Uh, can you I don't think we've muted anyone. Do we need to unmute them? I think I don't see anyone's muted. They can unmute themselves. Sally, are you muted? You're muted. Yeah, I muted myself. Thank you, Sally. They can unmute themselves.

Anyone else who would like to make a public comment at this time? Okay, moving on. Old business. Uh the cost sharing status still being reviewed. Again, the tests, we're on hold with this right now. Um we will put out build an RFP. We will look at other testing avenues as well as the test files. So we haven't forgotten it. We're just still getting trying to get through this in the right way. Um the town records we've talked about which is mostly but it's also the town records not just on but the ones that are in the files that say one thing of Sally found Harmony says another. So we still I talked to at least five or more people and found errors and so we're those people should be calling and correcting them. Um so I think we have to continue that. We have to continue to look at the ambiguities between the paper records and get that cleaned up. I think it's important job for us to do. Anybody want to volunteer to help? I'm glad to take any help on that. This is time consuming.

Um Mary, why are the test wells are put off? I thought we were moving forward. They're not put off. They're just we need to as Martha pointed out when we're municipalities. Um not like if I was for me when I go out to do something for my home, I usually get three estimates and I go usually with the middle one and the reputation of that company. This is a municipality and so we have to do an RFP. There's other things that have to be done. So, we're working on it. Okay. But the some of the test cells have been open or they identified them. We know where the keys are. We identified them. Okay. Right. Okay.

We know what the procedure is, what needs to be done. So, we've done some work. We've figured out what we need to do. Um, and then we just need agreement. Um, we need an RFP and what are the testing we should do. We are also getting additional uh people are sending a few people more extra people I'm sorry have sent in their well reports where they have done their own testing on their wells which seem to be in great all of them are coming back great. So, so far we have not along the shoreline found one property that showed contaminated uh wells. So, we need that information as well. And with the test wells and other data, then we can go back to deep as part of a case that we'd like to build with deep. So, it's the test wells are one piece of it. the um people's private wells, that's another piece of it. U the report that the statement that um Connecticut Water provided to me that they they're not worried about their wells um by the area B. Sorry. Um all of that will become one big package. We need to bring that to D. I think we need to um there's only nine wells in S view area. Okay. And I think we've probably hit in at least 50% of that so far.

Um it's the other wells the other people's wells that might be an issue. And it could not it doesn't have to be in Sound View. It doesn't have to be on the shoreline. It could be anywhere. Uh, I mean, you know, you've got farmland uh north of 156 and that leeches into uh Swan Brook, uh, Sheffield Brook, you know, and things like that. So, so the people that aren't on Connecticut water in those in those areas could also test and be peace of mind. You know, I think that's why we need it for testing well that they don't they they don't have any problems.

No, what I'm saying is if a person has a has a question as to the quality of water they're getting out of their well, this is the best way to do it. No, but I think we should we should test well that uh the where the beaches are su beach colony beach Miami beach all all those beaches that were supposed to be like listed under assur right

only if you go in a town and find the other wells have a problem. Mostly those problems are not the pollution. It could be hard water, iron, acid neutralizer needed, whatever. But that doesn't have nothing to do with pollution. Well, the the reason why I don't look at the shoreline specifically is because the shoreline is populated with Connecticut water with the exception of certain people

all the way to all the way to White Sands, you know. Um this is something that I did and I did it for my well. Yeah, you know, just uh you know, for peace of mind and it came back crystal clear. Why sand is out of the picture? Why send dish? They're not going to be sewed. So, no, they're not going to be sewered, but there's they're supplied by Connecticut water. So if they spy by Connecticut water, not everybody is on Connecticut water just like just like uh um I know houses on Rice and Beach that have a quite a few wells.

So a sewer ordinance, we've talked about this. The only change we're really making at this point is to proposing to go from seven years to 5 years. Martha's looking into enforcement of what's already in our existing sewer um ordinance or are we going to be able to to view the ordinance the last draft before it's so you can see the ordinance now it's on the left page it's on the town web page for the WPCA the only change really being suggested at this point is to go from seven years to 5 years but everything else is there's Nothing really that I know of is changing.

There's a couple of that have issue with actually the one that has to do with um not being able to repair and language says replace a septic system. uh if there is if sewers are in the association, I I have a big issue with that. If you are in compliance, your septic system is in compliance, uh I think you should have a choice whether to um hook up to um the the sewers or to keep what you have.

So I know that Right now, the town's not in that picture, but So, that would be within your own private beach association at this point. Yes, but the ordinance addresses that townwide, whether you're a beach association or not. It is a townwide ordinance, but there's really there is language that was going to be built into it for sewers. There was there is and we still have that. There was a lot of work put into that. Mhm. Um but we're not sewing any part of the town. Those are private associations. Understood. Yeah.

So this ordinance, the town ordinance does not have anything to do with Miami Old Colony. No, it's a really good question and I don't have the answer to that. That would be a legal question and I don't know the answer to that. It is we don't have anything to do because we don't have anything to do with Point of Woods. We we do not they have their sewer their sewer system and they handle that through their own WPCA. I think it should be clarified though in the townwide ordinance. But those streets aren't public streets. They're private roads. That's why

maybe maybe I don't understand and and maybe I understand you and so I'm now more confused. The town is not having sewers at the moment. We're not doing sewers. Therefore, and if it doesn't involve Miami, Old County or those places and it doesn't involve Point of Woods, which has been done since 2010, why do we have a sewer ordinance if we're not doing sewers? We have a we we have an ordinance. I don't know if you call it a sewer ordinance, but we have a not sure if that's the proper name then. It shouldn't be a sewer ordinance. should be the apartment. Yeah,

Mary, I'm happy to send it out to everybody tomorrow so that they can read it at home.

Okay, but it's a point well taken. I understand what you're saying. My understanding from the past, you know, each of the private beach associations has their own WPCA. They're ruled by that, right? their own little providence province within the town. Um, but if that WPCA doesn't do what they're supposed to do, if they don't follow state regulations, etc. of the town, so that the authority would go, here's my WPCA, here's the town WPCA, here's DEP, you know, so if the town doesn't do correctly what they're supposed to do, I think that deep takes priority over that or the health district. And then the same is true with the private beach associations. They run their own community, but if they don't really serve their community, then I think the town can step in, I think. But again, I'm not a lawyer, so I shouldn't even be saying that. Okay. New uh new business. Any new business? I do not have any new business for this committee. General discussion. anything anyone on the board would like to bring up?

I just had one question. I went over the uh the uh uh report that Erica gave us and if your name does not appear on it, are you in compliance? Yeah. So that that report is just delinquent people or possible errors. Yes. About 1,200. Well, on this run it's about 1,200 this for each. Okay. I think there's 1,200 total. There were 1,400 last year. She does it like in groups of 300,

right? But there's 7,000 houses in in there's 7,000. Yeah. Okay. So, but I'm due to pump out in September 17th or something like that. I'm not on this list. Okay. I'm going to pump out before I get on this list

because somebody called me um because I had when I had mine pumped. I I uh had somebody else's pund at the same time and their name didn't appear on it and they called me and said, you know, they heard that postcards are going out to people and they were wondering if they're uh in compliance or not. And I said I says, I'm pretty sure you're in compliance. It's just that uh I'd have to ask a question. Why they just look at look at look online if they don't have a computer dealing with old people. Good reason.

Older people. Excuse me. The Harvard Commission is bad. Okay. Thank you. You know how to all that? Yes, I'll do it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good evening. Okay. Okay. Any other discussion? Just the the ordinance. Um, so we're talking about going from seven potentially to five years, right? But then for the town, but then there's no exceptions to that or there is for the WPCA associations.

The WPCA is authorized to make exceptions, but I think I just don't see it as a real hardship. I really I'm speaking of it's an ordinance for the whole town but then the beach which associations are not part of the town. No, at least they still have to abide by the they still have this is a town ordinance. The town ordinance except for Point of Woods. Well, Point of Woods is not doesn't have Well, they don't. So, doesn't have septics. I don't I don't know what's in the full ordinance, but Right. That's what's confusing. It's a sewer ordinance.

A sewer ordinance. That would imply that everyone has sewers, right? I think it's a bad name. Ordinance. Yeah. Well, subt. I would call it a sewage ordinance. A what? What? Like a sewage ordinance? A sewage or sewage? Okay. Yeah, let's do that. That's perfect. Yeah. Why don't we all read it? Talk about it next time. Yeah. I can't hear. Okay. So, why don't we all read it? Martha said she was going to send it out. Yeah. We can we can talk about it next time. I mean it's it's a matter of words that were somebody put out there how many years ago?

Yep. Right. I think the confusion so is when the previous WPCA went down the avenue of sewers. Uh um two people that chaired that mentioned that you have to

uh hook up hook up to sewers and abandon your your um septic system. Yeah, that should not a an authorized septic system. That's what I'm saying. Should not should be different. The Metropolitan District Commission, which is the the largest wastewater authority in Connecticut, yeah, does not do that. They charge you the frontage of your house. If the pipe goes by your house, they charge you a certain frontage. That is, if the pipe is $500 a foot, it's $500 times 50 feet, 2500 bucks. Yeah.

That's your That's your thing. Then when you if you want to hook in, that's a different story, right? Because that language is in the the draft and it it's it's a townwide ordinance and so it it you know that language is confusing having that in there because most of the town does not have sewers. Correct. So, but the the three private beaches are the ones that set up their who's going to

this has language that would apply to the to the private beaches that will have sewers. So, what I'm saying is, you know, on one hand it doesn't apply, but on the other hand it does. I I really have a problem with that language. And that's something that we would when we get uh knowledge of what is in there

and we dissect it and then we can add delete send it to the the attorneys and let them say you know this is this is more in line with the entire town and and just not uh a select few beaches. That's all.

It's not I just looked it up. It's not a sewer ordinance. It's a sewage disposal system ordinance. It is not a sewer ordinance. We tried we have a sewer ordinance that is drafted because of the fact that we will have we have sewers in town and there were rules put into place for sewers because if you have them in town you also have to make sure that those will be those will be maintained. I haven't seen that draft in a long time, but it is there. So, you have a sewage disposal system ordinance that is under the WPCA. I'm pretty sure, Mary, that I handed out copies of all of this to all of you at our joint meeting with the board of selectment and the WPCA that I brought you all copies of the ordinance and the draft of the sewer ordinance that had been done many years ago. uh like four years ago has already gone through the lawyers and was redlined. Um and that should be ready to go if in case at any point in time the town has to put in sewers. It doesn't hurt to have a it doesn't hurt to have a sewer ordinance if even if we don't have sewers that the ordinance can be put into place.

Yeah. This this was handed out and I have it and it's called the town of old lime water pollution control authority municipal sewer ordinance. Okay. The whole thing is there's a draft

right and then there's a separate section called chapter 133 sewage disposal systems. So, are we saying that we're dealing with just this sewage disposal systems or we're dealing with this whole thing that was I think that draft was put together when it looked more as if the private the town beach the sound view and area were going to be sorted. Right now, that process is not it's on hold. Okay.

The only thing we're concerned about right now is this chapter 133 sewage disposal system, right? Yeah. I think the again like there is posted on the WPCA website the current ordinance and as far as I understand the only thing really changing from seven to five years. I'm home again. Well, take a look. That's all we can do is take a look and and run it by the powers to be. It's all

I know that Mar did send it. I do have it. I think everyone here has it. If you don't have it, we'll get it to you. Um again, like just it was a draft in case we do go to sewers. A lot of the work has been done. a lot of legal bills have been paid for that work. Jim has put a lot of work into it. I know uh Chairman Tsunami also had put a lot of work into it. So, we're not throwing it away. We're just not implementing it right now because we're not in a position to do so.

But, but that could be done later. We could come back with that ordinance. Yes. But we would need something if if any of the public streets, public areas do our sewer, then we will need a sewer ordinance for the town. We will need it, but it could be done regardless of whether we have it or not. I have it. Yes, it's a draft, but it's a draft that's been well Yeah. analyzed and looked at.

This is this is the part that I have an issue with. It's 3.0 O use of public sewers and then under that it shall be unlawful for any person to construct or repair repair any privy privy vault septic tank cesspool or other facility intended for the disposal of sewage if public sewers are available. I have a problem with that. This is a townwide ordinance. If you have a system that's in compliance, I think you should be able to repair it, not construct a new one. Not saying that, but the one that you have. And the the um the health district said that there is no replacement system. you get a whole new system. They call it

they call it repair. Yes. So I have a real problem with this. So I would agree with you but on the other hand I think that that was written in there by chairmans again and then okay but it was written in there because of the cost of building a sewer system. So if you say I don't want to hook up the line. I'll just pay I'll pay my um

Yeah, I'll pay for the assessment, but I'm not going to hook out in time. That is going to be a problem for the whole system. It is I know that what's going to be a problem is if someone cannot afford it and there's going to be I believe a lot of people I agree with you. who will not be able to afford I you know what Susan we've been saying that for I don't know five years I know most of the people but that's why it's going to be a hardship that's that's why it's important for this to be taken home

and I think it was put in there specifically because some people have already moved forward and replaced their systems out and of compliance with the public health right and so they recently He did that within the last five years. And to ask those people in the first year or two to abandon what they just haven't even finished painting on. Exactly. Mary

Mary, two years ago, Deep came here and did a presentation and Nisha Patel said no one will be forced to hook up if they have a compliant sewer system. They can continue I mean uh septic system they can continue to use their septic system until it fails. Then they would have to then they then they can't repair it then they have to do it and that's a state law and if we don't have something in our ordinance then it's covered under state law and if you want something different than state law you have to write it in your ordinance

there is something in that ordinance too that says something about you must hook up within a reasonable period of time there is. Well, remember that's a draft. It was never accepted. So, it's not an ordinance. It's just a draft of an ordinance. Well, I I realize that it's a draft and that's why we have to really get, you know, get it the way it should be, right?

That's right. But you don't need that's not your prior right now. I don't think that's your priority. I think your priority is to look at your current 133 and go through that and make sure nothing else needs to be changed. The the seven to five years, the state is recommending five years. So you are following state with the five years. So that's perfect, but you got to change your ordinance for that your current one

and then look at it to make sure everything else is in compliance. Um, one of the things that you have is your part about who is going to um, be your person to apply fines to those people who are not in compliance. And that's something that you need to look at in the ordinance and we need to have a conversation with the lawyers because legite does not do that for us. Should we have a concept of um a time frame after after discussion with the whatever party is delinquent you know it is two months you know at two months in one day that's when the fine starts or or that's when you can uh or when we could uh uh apply the fine to them or you know so that way it gives them the opportunity for their hauler to do what they've got to do

you know I mean that's 60 days that's uh that's not 6 months I would never see six months but I mean I could see 60 days 45 you know 45 days you know and then the respons I mean the responsibility lays with the homeowner anyway way. So, it all comes back to who who they're the one that picked up the telephone to call them. So, that's the way I look at it. You know, it's it's it's something that that uh um I mean, I don't have to do it in Newington because we we have a sewer system, right?

But I didn't pay for the sewer system in Newington in front of my house either, you know. So what what needs to happen for the the five to seven years to it meeting? So Mary, can I read to you what it says under enforcement and penalties in your current one?

It says the WPCA, the director of health and their agent shall be charged with the enforcement of this chapter. the agent of the WPCA and the director of health, remember that was like more like your sanitarian at that time when they wrote this shall prepare reports for the WPCA. Scope of such reports shall be established by it and he shall appear at the meeting of the WPCA as deemed necessary by the WPCA. So that means they could call the sanitarian into the meeting. The WPCA is hereby authorized to establish fees, which fees shall be in writing, and shall be effective upon majority vote of the WPCA following a public hearing held by such WPCA, of which legal notice thereof has been published in a newspaper having general circulation in the town not less than 5 days prior to such hearing, and upon sub subsequent publication of notice of such adoption in a newspaper having general circulation in the town. Such fees shall be required by this chapter and note and such fees shall be paid at the time of any application is submitted. I haven't read the beginning chapter, so I'm just skipping in. But penalties are basically you're off authorized to instruct its designated agent, that's where we're questioning through the lawyers, the director of health and or the sanitarian to issue a notice of violation to any property owner who in violation of uh state statute 133 or ordinance number 133-7A neglects, fails, or refuses to have the on-site sewage disposal system tank and or cess poolool located on his or her property pumped out according at to the requirements of this in of this section or any regulation adopted by the WPCA. And then it goes down. You've got

sections B, C, D all the way through G on the fines and how the process is. So, I think you really need to look through this, but the process has to be put into place. And that's why I think we need to have a meeting with Erica to see what can be worked out and what she feels comfortable with. We don't have a director of health. We don't have a sanitarian. We don't have a director of health. And Ledge Light says they don't do that. So, aren't we

missing something important there? regulations need the WPCA. We do it and Martha might be the enforcer. Then you need an authorized agent according to if you don't have the director of health or a sanitarian. So that's what we're asking. I've had the le question into the lawyer and we for two weeks and we've just been missing each other like he's in court when I'm in and then I'm in a meeting so we've been missing each other.

Do you ever envision us going back to a sanitarian? This was this was done two terms before you. Correct. It's a discussion. Okay. It's a discussion and that's something you know you have a budget coming up. You have a whole year to well not a whole year but you have until December to start planning your next year's budget. What does it look like? What do you need? Okay.

You know, this is a lot to do for Erica. Do you need a part-time sanitarian? because Ledge Light was not wasn't we didn't have a town engineer, but we we did, but he wasn't skilled in septic design. So, they went out to Ledge Light so that they would have somebody who would be able to help them. And remember, a lot of the developments were coming in, Chestnut Hill, Peppermint Ridge, a lot of these uh Talcott farms, they were coming in. They needed help. So they went out and that's they're our health district. They're just not our director of health. They're our health district.

So let's clarify.

I you know I go back to you know Ron Rose who was our registered sanitarian. We also had a we also had a health director and um it seemed and he was part-time here, part-time line. Um I think he also was across the river for a little bit. And I think, you know, for for having a health director within the town and not outside of the town that doesn't do any any enforcement or anything, I think we're just paying them to tell us what we can't do in in instead of what we can do. So that's that's my take on it. and and uh as a taxpayer, I wouldn't mind having a a registered sanitarian back in the town. That's me.

Okay. Any other discussion? Can I have a motion to adjourn? I'll make the motion. Brian, second, Dimmitri. All in favor? I abstaining any opposed.