Development Review Committee - Regular Meeting

Okay, we're waiting uh maybe a minute more. The health department rep is coming up.

Yeah. County.

Okay, it's 9:06 in the morning. Everybody is present. Committee members are present. Kelly Cadwell sitting in as alternate for Dave Champion. Welcome everybody to the April 2nd, 2026 Development Review Committee meeting. We have three cases on the docket today. We'll start with case number DP 2026-4. Amulch Depot Inc. Caraba McMahon Associates Inc. 910 US Highway 30, Valparezo, Indiana and Center Township. It's currently zoned I3 heavy industrial 13.38 acres and they're here in front of this board today for development plan approval for the proposed threetory unit buildings. And before I turn it over to you this uh we got quite a case file on this this project goes back a few years.

Legend. So if you could introduce yourself and your name and address and state your case.

Good morning everybody. Kevinos and Associates 52 State Road 2, Indiana here on behalf of uh Charlie from here to my left. Uh he can put any that I may not clearly stated. This property is at 910 US Highway 30. It is zoned I3. Uh and as stated, this does have quite a bit of history on this. So, um, back in, uh, February 19th of 2020, we achieved a BTA approval to install three of the source buildings on this site. Uh, because this is an I3 zoning, uh, that was a special exception for that as the zoning didn't allow for that. The allowance was for three buildings. The overall intent is to zone the I3 back then I1 to install the rest of the I believe 25 total buildings on the site including the entirety of the infrastructure partial infrastructure will be installed as part of these three. There is a pond uh that releases to the south ditch that will be included with that. Uh the DRC uh had officially approved this on September 1st of 2021. Uh we have blown through our three years of inactivity, thus requiring the resubmitt of the project, which was uh done in March and was quickly responded to by the county. Obviously, a lot of history there, so previously approved. There wasn't a whole lot to do. Um I quickly received letters performance from uh Dave Champion and Susan Hale. Uh Dave Champion's email or sorry Dave

Champion's um letter of approval came on March 16th and Susan's came on March 18th. Um Dave did mention three small cleanup items. I'm sure you guys have not had a chance to uh look at what I delivered yesterday. It was pretty late, but I just cleaned those up uh anyway. Um, I did also speak with Dan Boyd on some of the septic stuff. Um, and and Dan to confirm there is well and septic out there. We found it. We see it. And my new updates make the call outs for the uh properly removal for those as well. Again, I'm sure you guys probably haven't seen it yet, but they're they're in your uh hands hopefully at this time. So, um, the goal here is to get these three buildings done, kind of get this established, and then go through and, uh, finish the zoning and get this whole site built out. So, I'm going to leave it up to you guys for any questions. Uh, we'll answer the best we can, and we can go from there.

Maybe before we go to the other board members, just a clarification. So, you're not asking for zoning at this time? We are not asking for zoning at this time. That will come in the near future. So, you're putting three buildings in as allowed on the February 19th, 2020. Then, as you want to grow and expand, you'll reszone, put the same kind of buildings in. Same thing. Yep. And then there's 25 total, I believe, and these will be the first three out of them.

Very good. Thanks for clarifying. Okay, we'll go to staff first. Dan, you're first. Uh, like Kevin mentioned, I did a little bit more research um and looking into old files and I did find a septic system um and a well that was put in the property back in the 70s um in the previous time when he was here in 2021. They said there was no septic there and I didn't have access to the file at the time so I didn't find it and I've since found it but he I had asked him to uh put notes on there that it needs to be properly abandoned and um I need to receive evidence of that. So, I need like a invoice that the tank was pumped out and then that, you know, it was collapsed in place or removed or whatever. You know, when you go to do the work on the property, that will be something that will be required to be submitted to um the health department. It was not anywhere near where the uh the hand drawings were, but it was there by the trailer or

I mean it's it's 70s drawings, so I mean I don't know how accurate they are, but but that is all I have. Very good. Thank you, Kelly. I mean, I would defer to Dave Champion's review on this and his performance letter. Uh there were a couple items on there. We'll check those. I think one of them had to do with the skimmer. Y And that's on there now as well. Okay, great. The new revised set. All right, awesome. And I do think he you did make a application for your ESC, your erosion control permit. Did you do that?

Yes. Yes, I do. Um, and Monica should have that. I think it was uh it was the uh let me rephrase that. It was the original one that was done from before. So, I don't know if the new one needs to be completed or not. If so, I mean, we can revisit that. We'll look into that. Um, but for sure, you would want to have that and and certainly have that permit issued and then set up a meeting with us so be on site before you do any uh earth. Great. Once you kind of the dust settles from all of this, just get in touch with us. That's all I have. Thank you, Kelly. Kevin,

thank you for following up on the Well, we discussed that a couple times before and I kind of a little bit familiar with knew that somebody had been living on the site at one time suspected as much. My suggestion for the septic system is just remove the tank so nobody falls in the future rather than trying to fill it doesn't become destruction your future they will for sure be removed they're actually the pond and and that's my suggestion

safety and uh if you're putting a building there of course that's always your footings. It's just a pain. Uh, as far as I recall, the last time we met, one of the issues I had was the some kind of agreement with your neighbor from the entrance that's south of the rightway. That all got reported. I believe we did we did talk about that. We had created some exhibit for that. Um I will need to get back to you if that actually

that's what I'm think I didn't see it but I thought it but could you verify? Uh I got it right here. It's verified. So both 38. So that's that's in there. That was an existing easement. I think when we had first talked about that we didn't know what was there and some research. Um I think you and I did some research of that. the actual talked about that's why I know this this entire area is the 385

which is Anything else? No. Uh David's uh gave a letter inform. He make it clear. He did give conform uh approval, but he gives conformance letters. All right. What he does and I'm satisfied with that. So, and he made it clear that you're not asking for reasoning at this time. It's just

anything else. Thank you, Kevin Martin. Um, I was just gonna kind of ride the coattails of uh Kevin's comment for the easement agreement there. That's book 38, page 65 to get called out. Yeah, it looks it's a kind of a big blanket ement for all those for all that area to access 30. Um, but it doesn't specify really what's allowed to be built within it. I think that something more formal with the neighbor would be in line just for since you you are going to be building some of the infrastructure in there, the gate and everything, right?

Just make sure they agree with that. I know that a mayor guest already put their fence in it as well. It seems like it's in line with it, but just getting it in writing with with that parter. Okay. Three or four years ago when we talked about it, I was concerned that America Gas would be a good neighbor. somebody else might buy and they would be easy to work with. So, right, that's really my strong suggestion is just to have some formal specifics of your need and their needs.

And then additionally that u have you confirmed within just the condition of the driveway and how you're going to be using the property? Yeah. So, um I knew this question would come up. I didn't have a chance to do it the way I wanted to. Um but there was communication with that office installed would have been extremely short of gas there. I would have to go back. Okay.

Okay. Um, so I'd say just getting us something um stating that INDOT is aware of and approves the use of that driveway for the for the UCF proposed because they control. We We don't approve permits for this area. It's in maintain. So, I just want to make sure that we have something from them stating that they use in the current location as what's approved. Yeah. So, to clarify, Martin, you're asking to use the existing drive to get their blessing. Correct. Okay. Yeah. For this for this uh for the uses proposed. Anything else? That's all I have.

Any other board members have any questions, comments? Very well. This is an informal approval or no, it is formal. Formal. Why does someone want to make a motion? Uh move move that we approve uh conditional upon ESC permit verification or renewal as appropriate. uh an agreement with the neighbor being reported and uh coordination within that being shown uh to our office. We have a second. Kevin, any further discussion?

Oh, did you say uh get the documentation for the closing of the and documentation? Yeah. And revise the motion for a documentation of closing the well and invoice to answer the abandonment of the septic well. Do you accept that, Kevin? Okay. Any other comments? We'll do a voice vote. All in favor? I I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you, Kevin.

Let's do this every four years. And Martin, just for my record, I didn't write it down. What was that last about the septic? Uh, just show giving Dan documentation that it was a band that pumped out an abandoned an invoice or something like that. All right. Next case, VOE 2026-1. The applicant is Rodley Broadney L. Noel,

3316-1 North, 625 West, Valparezo, Union Township Zone rural residential acreage is 3.13 acres. This is an informal review requesting you of vacate existing ingress egress and utilities. Mr. Noel, if you could come up to the table and we'll go easy on you.

Okay. Maybe you could state your name and your address and what you're asking for today and then I'll help you out with it for the Could you bring your microphone right in front of you? Could you press that button down? Right. There you go. Perfect. Thank you. Got it. Now, yeah. Okay. You got a soft voice.

Not really. I'm trying not to yell because my wife says I talk too loud. Um, I'm here to ask for the uh property that you have there uh in your records that the ingress and egress for utilities be vacated because 54 years ago when we acquired this property that ingress and egress was established for the purposes of utilities and because this was all family that was going to out there. We decided to put the property on another the driveway and all the utilities on the other side of the another property that we have. And so therefore, there has never been nor is there now ever had any kind of utilities in this particular spot that is listed for it. And so therefore, I'm asking that it be vacated so that should I want to put I don't have any plans at the present time, but should I want to put a little shed or something next to that, they won't allow me to do it within 65 ft of the edge of the properties to my neighbors. So this is what I'm asking for to be vacated.

Mr. Noel came into the office. We did talk to him. Um he is correct. They had a two lot subdivision done a few years ago and there's a lot directly behind the lot next to the road and this access agreement for vehicle access and egress egress ingress plus utilities put in so it could service that back lot. Since that time, they've worked together. They have a an agreement for a driveway to the north of the property where all those utilities in the ingress egress serve. Not only the lot behind you, but the one to the north of you as well. Is that correct?

Yes, that is correct. There's four homes back there. They're all family. I own two of them. And um the driveway that was put in uh in the very beginning, that has never been changed. All we did was asphalt it. And since then, I have had it uh I've had surveyor come out and survey the driveway. We had a attorney from Chesterton draw plans to make this a permanent rightway uh for everyone so that if the houses would ever get sold or anything, no one can change that. Those are permanent driveways for everyone that lives out there. to to correct you. It's not right away.

Excuse me. I think what you have is an access agreement. Access. Okay. For people. Yes. I'm sorry for the terms that I use. Well, that's what start remember you and I started off that. Yes. I agree. We were not on the same page. And since then, we've had NIPCO come out and de demonstrate uh that all of the utilities are north. There's nothing on this property at all whatsoever. And we do have a picture of the file of the flags her absence of and I do have the green copies and certified copy of the letters that I sent out. Very good. Dan, any comment whatsoever?

Um, so you're you're creating new ements as as part of this? No. No, it's just you're vacating the existing vac. Okay, that's I was just asking because on the application it said um replaced by new filed easements. So I was just curious about those because if the those new easements were created, I was curious if uh you located the septic and stuff to make sure that they weren't in those new easements. If if what now? So if you were creating new easements because on the application it says replace. I'm not creating any easement. Okay. That's why I'm asking because on the application it says replaced by new.

It was Yes, it was replaced legally on the north side. Okay. So that that can't be changed. So that any of should any of the houses fall out of the family and somebody else would buy these houses. They can't stop us from going to our own home been out there. Maybe to add clarity to that that driveway was there before most of those homes were there. The driveway, the driveway originally was put in in approximately 1971, 54 years ago. Okay. When my brother-in-law built his house, I built out there in 72

and approximately 73, my father-in-law built his house and eventually uh my son built out into the back. So yeah, I was just asking about the new easements because that was on there because if you created new easements if depending on where they were at if they were where your septic field was or the septic field for any of the houses, they can't be in those easements. So I was just making sure that this was the original road that was originally put in and was approved and everything. All right, that's all I have. Kelly, uh, for clarity, you're vacating an access like an ingress egress act easement. Is that what you're doing? Yes. Ingress, egress, and utility. And utilities

for utilities. I'll show you. Um, I from a storm water review, I guess I would. We don't have any comments on that. No comments.

No further comments. And that's just one combination. Nobody's going to be denied access to that created by the ordinance. So that's what you're

Okay, Martin, I guess that's my question. Um, this is me just kind of wondering if if that ease was created to access that back lot, doesn't the access need to stay within the control of the subdivision? I thought that was in the UL. I'm not I'm not positive. We didn't take that position because the drive came from the north and they got their access through this way instead. And they do have a firm agreement that he tendered and put in there which binds all four parcel owners to maintenance and care of that driveway. Okay.

Yeah. If if the access if the access to that lot doesn't need to be maintained within the limits of the subdivision, I have well I mean I don't have any comment either way. uh highway engineering perspective. I mean there's no new driveway going in. It's nothing's changed in there for me. So no no other comment. Very good. My only suggestion and I always get the spiel on the drive have some kind of formal agreement. What's that? They do have a decoration between all four. Thank you.

Any other questions by the board?

Actually this informal review got plan commission. So a favorable. What's the date of the plan? April 22nd. So you'll be on the agenda April 22nd at 5:30 this same room and the planning commission will hear that and they'll vote on it and you can walk out with no easement. Thank you. You're welcome. I don't have any. Thank you, sir.

Thank you. And the best for last case. Three cases. Three separate cases. We're going to hear them all at the same time because it involves three separate parcels all either adjacent or across the street from one another. This is first case ZO2026-9 ZO 2026-10 2026-11 and may not spell name is it Nurian

that's correct yes sir I did Nurian pronunciation that's totally fine

Nurian West LLC and they're located north and south of 1500 north approximately 3/10 of a mile east of 500 East with an address in Michigan City, Indiana, Pine Township. Current zoning is rural residential. Total acreage of three parcels is 146.79 acres. Today is an informal review. They're asking to reszone three parcel land to Greenway District GW to allow for the Old City Light Western Wetland Restoration. And if you could state your name, address, and the purpose of your visit.

Yes, sir. Um, name is Lynden Graber. Uh, address of our office is 248 Southwoods Center, Columbia, Illinois 62236. And the reason for our visit is to um propose a reszoning of 146 acres in Porter County uh to Greenway to allow for the restoration of Old City Light North and South Wetland Mitigation Banks. And can you tell tell us a little bit about what you tend to do that this is going to be somewhat of a business or something like that?

Uh yes. Yes. So um so we are in the business of developing wetland mitigation banks which I'm not sure what the committee's experience with that is so far but um in general we serve as a permanent offset to uh impacts to federal and state jurisdictional uh aquatic resources wetlands and streams. So whenever developers such as INDOT or otherwise have to impact wetlands, they have to offset that impact. There's a requirement from the core of engineers and often from the state of Indiana in this case as well. Uh we provide that offset by providing for restoration in the form of what's called a bank. So a large piece of property that is restored and permanently protected in a permanent conservation easement. Um, and so that site will generate credits that can be sold to offset those unavoidable impacts from developers such as end up. So, um, that's what we're in the business of doing.

And have you sold a bunch of credits already? And how long do you think this will take to to fill out?

Uh, we have not sold any credits yet. So we've received so far to date the work done on the property is we've received the from the core of engineers the the the permit the nationwide permit number 27. So we've got full approval from uh the core of engineers for the project. Um they consult with other federal and state agencies as well in an area agency review team called so IDM IDR EPA and others sit on that committee. They've all approved this project. Uh we've also received our section 401 water quality certifications from the state of Indiana for these as well. Um and so that all happened in about November, December of last year and uh we purchased the property in January of this year. I believe January is when we closed, maybe February, but we own the property now. Um and so we're we're just now getting underway. So we haven't done any restoration activities yet. those are planned forward this summer uh to do the restoration which the restoration here is going to involve um essentially some some lowline bming and some ditch plugs to help restore. Right now it is currently agg um and so it's got a bunch of surface ditches and otherwise that allow for getting water off the property. Uh historically it used to be a wetland and so that's the kind of properties that we look for to restore. So, um, we'll put in some lowline BMS to fill in some dishes and do some dish plugs to restore some basically some some seasonal saturation. It's not going to be open water unveated or anything. It can't be. Um, and the primary habitat out there is going to be emergent wetlands, sedge meadow and wet prairie, uh, which is essentially like a herbaceious vegetative wetland. Um, so all of that work will commence uh this summer. Very good. All right, we'll go through questions. Dan, probably don't have many here, do you?

Not many. It's just my only There are some houses there and those houses would be on septic systems in terms of their wastewater disposable. I mean, they don't look like they're newer homes, so I don't know quite how old those systems would be, but they would have to do replacements and we could most likely work around that. Um, if there was there was any other, but yeah, I don't have much. Go back question. I'm intrigued by it. So if they make it wet, they're going to raise the free water table and maybe affect

I mean I don't know what the water table is there now. So I mean I don't know how much it's going to affect it. Um I mean that area is does tend to be kind of wet up there anyways. So it probably has a shallow water table. Um you know I mean we do do subsurface drainage around septic systems and everything. So u and they are existing homes. So if they did have a system that went in failure, the code gives us best judgment on repairs so we can make concessions to the the code um to get a functional sub system in there. So um yeah, I I mean it's just hard to say exactly what the impact's going to be, you know, 10 years down the road or something from doing this. Um, so yeah, I was just that was my only thought was, you know, there are some houses there, but um, I mean, looking at the topography and stuff, those properties seem to, you know, the houses are higher in elevation than where you're doing the work, so I think it'll be all right.

Okay, very good. You did get some eyes on this early on. You had any thoughts? Uh, yeah. So, I was curious, are you building any are you proposing any structures?

Um, no. No, we had no structures. So, uh, and also the easement that we'll place on the property prohibits, um, any permanent structures. It prohibits roadways, it prohibits a, it prohibits essentially everything. Um, it'll be a permanent green space. Um, it won't be all 146 acres. The bank itself is about 106 to 108 acres. That's a pervade boundary and it's in the lowerlying areas. Um, so there's it also can't uh intersect with any other encumbrances or easements. So there's some NIPCO easements and some other other easements that we have to work around that were that were not going to be encumbering. Um, but essentially the the easement is going to prohibit any sort of development or otherwise on on that property.

And but you did say you're going to do some birming and some modification of plugging of the water that's coming in or leaving or

correct. Correct. So there's some surface drainage right now. And so um that's what our our item section 401 water qualitys are for are for those burns. Uh so those are um essentially state protected isolated waterways. And so they've approved that as part of our engineering plans and our erosion control plans. Um it's about on on one of them it's 30 or linear 30 linear feet of an unnamed tributary carbon ditch uh with 8.06 cubic yards of material. um that's on the the north bank, so the north side of the road and on the south side of the road um we'll have two ditch plugs there and they'll impact a total of 01 acres of stream bed and 60 l feet of stream bank. So,

so I would add that um you know there is significant flood plane out there. So, you will need to get your approval through the I don't know if it's IDM or DNR to sign off to do work in there if you're going to be moving within that within that area. Uh, and my guess is they're going to want to just know that you're changing the hydrarology in there anyways. Uh, and then the last thing, uh, if you're working along Carver Ditch, that is a legal drain. Correct.

So, you will need permission to do all of all of that. So, what I would say is, uh, once your reszone is, you know, if that becomes successful, you're going to want to get those plans into us, which I think you may have already or someone, some other engineering firm may it um, but we'll uh, certainly storm water management and development, the engineering of that. We'll look over that and to see what other items might be applicable. Okay. The flood plane and the legal drain, those are kind of two big ones.

Yes, ma'am. So, um, to address those two items, the the flood plane, um, so IDM has reviewed it and so that's what the we've gotten our 401 water quality certifications for both of the for the the work that will be done in that flood plane already. And IDM Yes. And then for um the legal drain, you are correct. We opted to just stay off of it. So the the easement um that's currently on that legal drain, our easement doesn't uh overlap or intersect with that at all. So, um, we won't be doing any work that would impact Carver Ditch or the the legal drain that is offset from that or I guess the easement that's offset from it. But maybe Go ahead.

I was just going to say, so are you saying that none of your birming or your uh roofing will take place within the legal easement of Carver Ditch? That's correct. Yes. So 75 either side of the top of Bank, you won't be Yes, sir. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. Our survey stays off of that. Yes. And then back to the flood plane, what did DNR say? They say it's not necessary. Did you did you check in with DNR as far as the flood plan?

Yes. Yes. Yes. So DNR sits on the IRT and so they with the approval from the core of engineers, the DNR is also a signatory to that agreement as well. It's called a mitigation banking instrument. So the DNR their representative for mitigation banking has been a part of the review process for the last two or three years and they've signed off on the project as well. But was it specific to the flood plane? Were they aware? Well, is there a floodway going through the property? Right. Where you need a construction and floodway permit, right? Correct. Was was a waterways inquiry inquiry request made through uh the state system. Um I'll have to check on that. What What is the exact terminology? I'm sorry. That would be DNR.

Okay. Okay. If you if you look up Indiana waterway inquiry request, that'll bring you to the the main page where you kind of start a gate for that coordination. You may not need it. You just got to check in, right? Okay. Um and it was called DNR water. It's construction. Construction in the floodway. Okay. I'll check with our um our engineering firm um and see if they've already done that. So DNR different brands of DNR may sign off with

Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay. Yeah, the regulatory side typically you got to ask and floodway information. Okay. Thank you. Good catch, Kevin. Anything else? No, that's all I have. Kevin,

I think you're fine with construction, but you still need confirmation and communication. You've got legal trainings that's Kelly referred to. We don't want you extending your preservation into the access to both sides. My concern from the water would be that we have a lot of wetland animals, bevers

in order to make sure that the regular drain works well for the neighborhood. Uh part of my concern is we have drainage coming off this part to the south and we need to make sure that's maintained. Okay.

What's good about this? I think it's a water quality feature that will help improve the water quality locally as well. And my biggest concern will be that house at the north right up at the northwest corner of this that they're a little bit in a seasonal type water could be brought up unintentionally by putting a water feature to the south. Make sure that their septic field or god forbid maybe they have a basement. I don't know. I doubt it. You don't know what what people do in the end. But uh we will hear about it if that happens. That high drainage from my standpoint is really critical here to protect and preserve.

Okay. If you don't have good drainage, it'll be excellent. It doesn't appear that there's a lot of people here. There's a lot of people that drive this kind of um the questions I have. You've got the bumper on this which is great. It's required this green Okay. So believe that we'll be peritted residential or commercial building without ours. That's correct. That is correct.

Who is going to be the responsible charge for the ongoing maint?

Yes, sir. That's correct. So we um we have to construct and then maintain and monitor the project until all the final performance criteria are met. Uh typically that takes five to seven years but depends on the behavior of the site and how it develops over time. Um but we're required to earn our credits over time. So we don't get all of our credits up front. So um so we'll be on the site for a minimum five to seven years post construction. Um the easement itself, it will be held and enforced by Still Waters Land Trust. Uh they're a nonprofit in Indiana and they hold several other easements for us for other projects in the state. And then after our final performance criteria is met, we get a sign off and close out notice from the core of engineers at which point a long-term steward takes over the management of the property with an account that we have to fund for them at a predetermined amount. Um so um that's all all set up and in place uh before we ever walk off the property.

So in perpetuity. That's correct. Yes. That firm um they serve as a long-term steward on several of our projects throughout the Midwest. They also help with a lot of our maintenance, our construction as well. So they're they're pretty integral to all of our operations in the Midwest uh in several states including Indiana. And that's where it's going to get at.

Yes. We need to know more information for plan commission when this comes in front of us for the reszoning to know to have security in the fact it's not going to drop off onto the executive of the county in 10 years, 20 years. We need to protect our future government from having this dare I say it's a liability. It's a great thing that's happening, but it's still a liability because it's expensive to maintain, own, and operate. Which brings me to the next thing is have you written an operation and maintenance book for the uh land for the next steward or is that available for our staff?

Yes. Yes, we can provide that. So, um it's pretty general and high level in nature at this point because this pipe still needs to be restored. and we need to see what it looks like before we turn it over. But we do know what the final performance standards are and what it needs to look like. So, it just depends on the level of invasives and other things like that as to what the specifics of that plan will be. But in general, um that plan will include um the control of invasive species. Um replacement of signage. So, the site will have signage all around it. um stating that it's got a federal core permit number um and that it's a protected area with no trespassing. Um so any replacement of any signage um if there happens to be any issues with any of the ditch plugs that need to be corrected then the long-term mains will also take care of that as well. So um but in general there it's meant to be um light touch care after all the final performance standards have been met. Um they come by minimum of two times a year to check on everything and make sure everything's fine. They also lies with all the neighbors and make sure there's no issues there as well. So, um that's in in general how it works in long-term management for these sites.

Do you have a planting scheme or Yes, sir. And are you planning on planting? Um so, this site's got a mixture of uh different seed mixes and also uh plugs as well. Um, so, uh, would you give a specific, not today necessarily, but for plan commission purposes,

to have a specific layout what you propose? Part of my concern is you're in the agricultural community, too. And we want to make sure we don't spread something into the farm community and vice versa that uh could have impact on them. The uh next thing is if you haven't done it, I would suggest you get a hold of the soil and water conservation district to see what kind of private drainage schemes there are on this property. Almost all of our farmland in northern Indiana have been tiled and drained

out of necessity. And uh hopefully they have some kind of maps of it or the the former tenant farmer or the former owner has something. I would strongly urge you to get that information so you figure out what somebody might have tried. You know, some of it's evident with what we see because a lot of the tiles blown up. Mhm.

Uh and then at the same time while you're doing the hydraology, I get real concerned with these wellland areas because uh we want to make sure we don't have slopping off of the shoulders of the road or the banks of the district to the south end. So we want to watch those water levels and make sure we have and that's where the vegetative protection comes in too where if we can root mound a lot of that area. That should help prevent that material from moving too much, which it is prone to do. These are hydric soils throughout the year. Yes, sir.

No, that's an interesting thing. Go ahead, Kelly. I was I think you and I might be thinking the same thing. We had a mol. I think so. Uh it's uh do you have any kind of hydra hydraologic modeling or anything that shows the impact of what you're trying to do and how far that might reach out into neighboring properties in terms of you know and I think Dan was kind of alluding to it as well like are you going to raise the water the water table and and if so how far out and would that would that impact your agricultural neighbors? That's a a great Well, thank you. And part of my concern was the farmers to the north, east, and west, if they've got tiles coming across.

Yeah, for sure. And you block their tiles, you'll blow up their tiles basically from water pressure, and that will not be good.

Correct. Um I'll confirm. I believe we did um a um a tile like a trench like an exploratory trench to see if there are any active tile out there. Now um we also checked with the prior owner to see if they had any maps. Um it's my understanding there's no tile out there. That's primarily surface uh drainage. Um and so um but I I can confirm that and see. Tile exploration is one of the first things that we do when we're looking at a property because things like water trespass and blowing at neighbors is something that we have to consider. Most of our banks across the country and we have almost 200 of them now in about 25 states are in a settings like this. And so that's part of what we have to do and what we have to prove to the core and to the IR and to the state that we're not going to be impacting neighbors adversely.

Yeah. As far as those tiles, often we've got to go back 40 to 80 years. A lot of them were clay tiles that were put in over a hundred years ago. And my generation lost track of them. My dad's generation lost track of them. Actually, I I've looked for them in the past. I think they're a beard to find. You probe for them and it's just by luck I don't plan to find them. Okay. Unless you've got a sinkhole or a blow over that got created because of uh impacts of the neighbors.

I believe they also looked for outlets as well. Um but I can confirm whether or not they found any. But um it's they'll be tough to find because we never used delineators or anything like that. That's why I suggest the best thing maybe is if soil and water or NRCS have some kind well in a lot of cases they have mapping available but they consider it more private information so they got to get permissions from their tenants or the uh the land owners the farmers I I just wish they release a lot of that stuff for all of our benefit the way it is

right Kelly you want to add what we talked about sorry I got caught waving we were Just asking if you could provide those. I know I believe you did submit a a sto a plan for storm water review. You guys already do that. Yes. Uh so if you have any of that uh uh you know off-site hydrarology, any of that or you're going to get any of that, you could submit that as well. Okay. We'll roll that into your uh review of the your storm water drainage review and we can provide those results to the plank commission, you know, to help with your decision making. You get that to us, we'll check that out and include that in your storm water review.

Okay? Because you're still going to need a site plan approval even after the zoning. So, I know you guys are trying to move quickly to get the season. Gee, we're not even spring or just spring. Oh, we are spring. Yeah, the season's going to be over. But yeah, anything that the board brings up from a technical perspective, I think Kelly raises a good point. You get that submitted to us based on your input today, that will help expedite your review of your site plan, your site plan approval. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Very good. But we're not done. Done. I'm done, Mark.

I mean, I'll I'll just echo what everyone said here. Um, looking at the hydraulic hydraologic model, where's the water water going to go from my perspective? Um, I'm a highway engineer. I'm looking at highway engineering. A rideway along 1500 north has a low point that's going to be along your buffer right there where you're burning. So, how you can be routing water around uh the proposed area where you're detaining water. So, um I would just want to see more on that and see how you're addressing the the u drainage cores for uh those roadside ditches where they're going to be outlet. That's all that I have.

So, I guess more simply put hot water from the highway dribbling on this land. How you going to manage that? Exactly. Anything else? That's all.

Uh, we brought our MS4 coordinator in today. Do you have any questions? There's a microphone. I guess I might suggest before approval and such that we maybe have a a meeting to discuss large project. Kelly asked about structures. Do you have like water control structures? How are you man?

Um I'd have to consult with our engineer. I mean I'm not an engineer unfortunately. I brought all the engineering plan sets. Um I believe we've submitted them as well as part of our application. But um I'd have to consult with our engineer or better yet just have a meeting set up with you and them. so they can better use your questions.

So I have particular interest in this. I have a lot of background in that area. So this is a conservation area over there. That's all protected land. You mentioned about conservation and still waters managing it but who is the ultimate owners still doing?

No. Um Nurian West the company I work for is the owner of record right now. Ultimately we'll look for um a good home for the property. Um, so what we typically do for that is usually for most of our projects nationwide, we're actually not the land owner. We have a mitigation use rights agreement with the land owner who still wants to maintain peace simple ownership of the property. Um, and we have the rights to develop it as a mitigation bank for them. In other cases like this where it's a really attractive property to do something like this and to put it back the way God intended it to be, um, we have to buy it. This actually happened to be a it was originally a listed property and then someone that we happen to know actually bought it for a production and then sold it to us. And so um we do have several properties that we end up owning like that. Ultimately we want to get through the restoration period, the construction period and maybe even a couple years into monitoring to make sure that it's it's performing the way we want it to. And then we look for a good home for it. So, we typically sell these um parcels for um usually to either neighbors or somebody who wants to enjoy it for quiet enjoyment. Um and we have a whole process that we have to follow with them to walk them through the easement so they know exactly what it is that they're buying, what they can and can't do out there on the property. In general, it's usually a neighbor uh who ends up getting it. So,

so like there's a lot of protected land that my previous was for local trust that a lot of they're actually doing programs. So I guess that the purpose is to share knowledge connect those kinds of things. My concern was a lot of experience, right? So if you're not the current owner that go to your neighbor that wants to try to distinguish the easement like what rights is it restricting structure and everything obviously but is allowing for public access for you know hunting those kinds of

great questions. Um, so, um, it specifically does not allow for public access. It's still a privately held property with a private easement on it. The easement is permanent and it runs with the land. So, it's recorded against the property and has to run with the land. It also does not allow for a subdivision of the property. So, um, if somebody wanted to subdivide one of these three parcels and the easement was on all of it, they would not be able to. They'd have to purchase the entire thing. they would not be able to allow they not be allowed to subdivide that easement into pieces. Um and it also does not allow for the reintroduction of any other species that are not part of the original planting plan. So everything in the original planting plan is all native to uh and specific to the state of Indiana, this region of Indiana. Uh so it's all native seed mix and native plugs. So invasives are highly monitored and controlled out there. So, the reintroduction of invasives is disallowed uh by the easement as well. Um and um there's there's a bunch of other restrictions that are in there as well. Uh it's an easement that we've used um

all throughout Indiana and Illinois and Iowa um with No, we haven't recorded yet. Uh we actually wanted to get through the reszoning process first. Um it's interesting. We've got like I said almost 200 projects nationwide. This is the very first one that zoning has actually ever come up on. So is the public access thing like public access?

It's required of our easement. So so as the sponsor of the mitigation bank, we have to propose an easement. The core and the inter agency review team have to approve it. Um we start with template easements from the core of engineers that are provided by them and we kind of work from there. And so the one that we use heavily in the Midwest prohibits public access. So I guess uh my recommendation would be to think about those kinds of things. So habitat habitat community transferring it local trust to hold that's going to be a lot better for us in the county as well, right? Because land owner future development plans for approval to think about flexibility and options for like water control structures. It was mentioned about like beavers and all those kinds of things. Those will become headaches to us in storm water management ditch management. So if there's even the ability to be like, oh, we need to lower this water impact, right? spillway to lower.

So you're put on still water that monitor responsible for infrastructure permanent funding source and something like that going from sell these medication or something like that.

So, um a couple of points. Number one, so Still Waters their their role here is to be the grantee and the enforcer of the easement itself.

So, they don't have um any maintenance or monitoring obligations. That's a it has to be a different party, a third party. Um, so we use a group called Loveless uh Custom. They do a lot of construction and maintenance and monitoring on several of our sites throughout the Midwest. They're an approved long-term manager or long-term steward in about three or four different core districts, uh, including Chicago and Louisville, which is primarily what most of our projects in Indiana are. Um, so, um, they're they've been vetted and approved to be the long-term manager. they are the beneficiaries of that endowment fund that you're talking about. So, we have to set aside an endowment fund that is supposed to be a non-wasting, non-deinishing fund um to allow them to go out and do long-term maintenance on the property after we leave. So, I just wanted to clarify that first. There's a couple different parts and love.

Yes, that's cuts down trees or digs a hole or something. Still water. Still water. Yeah. So, are required to go monitor the ement itself to make sure that nobody is encroaching on the actual legal um the legalities of that of like what's allowed or not allowed on that site right

sure enough sounds good in the same office is most of us sitting up here. So, okay. Where your plans went, he does have access to those. Okay. And he will be looking at it as we go through your site plan for approval. Yep. Okay. You you definitely have to visit DNR with your erosion control item. Uh I have one final question. Who's going to own feed title in this? You keep talking easements, but somewhere there's an underlying E. Yes. The company that's owning.

So, right now it's our company. We're called Nurian. So, Nurian West LLC is the company that owns the land right now. For the foreseeable future, that will be the company that owns the land. Um, as I was explaining, at some point, we'll try to find a good home for the property. We have a vested interest in the long-term ownership because we want to make sure that whoever owns it uh is not encroaching on the easement or causing problems out there because as I was stating, our credits aren't released all up front. We have to earn them over time by performing. So, we have a a very best interest in who actually owns the property. In some cases, in some areas, we actually do donate to local land trusts. In other areas, we we find um a a neighbor who is interested in using the property for hunting and for recreation. Um this particular property is all sedge. It's all herbaceous. It's not a forested wetland. So, um we have a lot of properties, for example, that are in southern Illinois that are forested wetland and they're set up really well for hunting and that's that's typically like the best home for it. This particular one, given a couple things. one the the vegetative requirements that are um the core imposes on us for performance here for diversity um species diversity hydraology u invasives and all those other things. It's a really high standard. Um the last thing we want is somebody trumping around out there and uh destroying vegetation or producing invasives or causing problems because it affects our ability to generate and sell credits. Um, so on this particular one, we're going to be very picky, I can say. And it'll probably be a few years at minimum before we try to find the right home for it. And as he was stating, it may end up being somebody like like a Shirley Hines or like somebody else around here. This this project was cited for a lot of the reasons that he was stating, it sits in a broader area, a whole lot of conservation. It's more of like a corridor. And that's one of the things that was very attractive to the core and to the state as well when we were

proposing it. that we uh need to be careful that the uh easement and perturbances don't get separated from the fee in the long run. We got burned the waterfall USA great projects but then something happened to the national thing and it affected us locally where the judgment was to sell properties. Of course they sold their Midwest properties instead of their east properties. And we ended up with private property owners on all these lands that were formerly most supposed to be uh to be habitat for biodiversity for the local benefit. And of course it's 25 years later it's gone.

Okay. Yes sir. Yes. So um the easement has to be permanent has to be recorded and has to run with the land. In fact, on our projects where even it can't be subordinated to any other incumbrance and that includes board. So on when we have projects with land owners who have debt on their property, their lender actually has to sign off and subordinate their position to Right. I get that.

And has to stay with the land. This project's no different uh than that. Um in a situation like you're talking about where say something happens before project closeout like when I say that it means we've met our final performance criteria. We hand it over to the long-term steward, the maintenance obligations of it with an endowment fund for them to take care of. Um, we have to post uh financial asurances. Uh, that's one of the requirements of the core and it's outlined in our mitigation banking instrument. Essentially, it's a performance bond that would allow for the continuing restoration and monitoring of that project if something were to happen to us. So, all of that has already all been uh approved and taken care of at the the federal and state level for this project. And like it was suggested, I support talking to local land trust.

Okay.

We have several that are really good. Some are better if I may like to clarify for the committee, right? like going to homeless property while they establish maint but the mitigation requirements you have you won't see anymore right so for the county purposes we are we are still going to be here as forever it's going to be theoretically trust you know storm water looking at these agreements for the people responsible for maintenance storm water service provider for that from our perspective those kinds of things are things that should be considered and that's a good point there are still storm water fees connected even while this is a storm water feature

it's No, that's fine. We we'll scuff it down. I guess in full disclosure, you can come in appeal in front of the storm water management board and a contributor as far as your fee goes to

and that's fine. I mean, we as a land owner, we're prepared to pay property taxes, storm water fees, whatever it may be. That's not where that's frankly that's not what's going to make or break this project, right? Um So whether whatever we need to do to be good stewards and be good neighbors and good residents of the county is not that that's all well and good then I guess what I'm trying to say is that's not what's going to make or break this project right we want to function ecologically want to earn credits over time so that that it can serve as a permanent offset to unavoidable impacts within the wershed who the primary client is

typically it's INDOT u specific to this? Not typically. I'm sorry. Specific to this. We don't have the bank. Well, I thought there was they have somebody, don't they? No. Like our No, we're pretty high risk.

It you know, we're um it it's something that we take very seriously. We do an incredible amount of market research and otherwise to identify good areas to go site projects. So there's an economic supply demand analysis that we do, a costbenefit analysis that we do. We try to understand what future forward looking demand maybe he mentioned the ILF. Historically there's only been one other mitigation bake in the service area. They're sold out right now and now the ILF is the only um the only entity who can offset any mitigation in this area. They play by different rules than we do. We have to do advanced mitigation. So to your point about being risky. So, we have to do all this and then hope that demand comes and demand meaning like impacts to aquatic resources in the area.

So, um it's it's certainly not for everyone, but it's something that we do nationwide. Um this in particular, this area, this wershed is one that uh historically has had a lot of development and a lot of impacts to aquatic resources. Um and what a mitigation bank. It sits higher in the hierarchy than ILF because because we have to do our mitigation ahead of time. Mitigation being the restoration. So the the offset has to be in the ground before anybody else can actually use it as an offset for their impact. So the temporal lag is much less. So it sits higher in the hierarchy because of that question. Correct. Just out of curiosity, what's the range to buy any of your credit?

It depends. So the ILF right now is selling them in this area for I think about $90,000 a credit. Um now we don't get So, okay.

Yes. Yeah. They're they're proposing that because it's codified in the law their pricing. So, they have to follow a long process to actually increase their pricing, but they they need to uh that has been the pricing since June of 2018 since the inception of their program. And so, um you know, we'll see. We'll see how it goes. There's there's a whole lot of capital investment that goes into these projects and a whole lot of of risk upfront. So, um property ownership, restoration, we don't get one credit per acre, right? So we own about 150 acres here and we're going to have about 80 credits give or take. So about a 0.5 ratio. Um so there's there's a lot that goes into it. Um Chicago district in particular. So me personally I'm in charge of Naturian West which is the entire western half of the US and a handful of states on the eastern side of the Mississippi as well. So I work in about six or eight different core districts nationally. Um Chicago has some of the highest performance standards um of any of the districts within which um I operate for Naturian. So um for example, hydraology is actually a two-year requirement, not a one-year requirement where it is pretty much everywhere else nationally. So we have to have two documented years of 28 consecutive days meeting the the requirements, which is a very high standard. And then all of their vegetative performance standards are very high as well. So takes a while to to get the credits released. uh takes a lot of adaptive management. All of these systems are living, breathing ecosystems and so they've got to change. They change over time and they're they're not a cookie cutter approach and so we have to be um willing and able to adapt to the whatever the local situation is so that we can make sure that the site performs good.

And may go ahead. I was going to say for um our environmental consultant on Market Greenway, their in fee credits were 195,000 per acre. Can you say that again? What what exactly is that? The um our environmental consultant reached out for uh to Old City Light mitigation banks on in fee credit prices and it was 195,000 for inl feing. Yep. Okay. Do you have some contract consulting already for the restoration?

Uh not yet. So um we'll we'll put it out to bid. uh V3 out of Woodidge, Illinois is who has designed this uh project for us. They've designed several in the Chicago District of Illinois. Um so they've designed this one here for us. Um we'll obviously bid it out to them, but we're required to bid out to multiple um multiple parties. So we'll see who it ultimately goes to. So it'll it may end up being multiple uh subs. It I can envision having a dirt moving contractor uh for the minor grading that we need to have done. But as far as all the seeding and the planting of the plugs um will more than likely be loveless. Um we have a lot of continuity with them throughout the life cycle of all of our projects and um they've got a really good staff who does a lot of that work for us in the Midwest. So it'll probably be them. Um I probably should have started this but for comfort of the board members the reason we instruct we suggested them go zoning they could have gone to a use variance as well but the permitted use for greenway or very passive to a certain extent agricultural crop production forestry farms plant farms raising farm animals sale of agriculture products storage conservation uses are conserv Conservancy and nature preserve which this falls under that category. Public access for fishing, boating, a trail, institutional uses, fishing pond, hiking trail, nature preserve or preserves or a public park and then it has a list of special exception uses. So if they want to put buildings and bike out there, they would have to come to the BCA special exception for those which it could be for utilities or tele communication facility, environmental and atmospheric monitoring

tower, low impact structure, nature center or parking lot, and a single family detached dwelling is allowed, but all those require board of zoning approval, board of zoning appeals approval. So, I think this zoning fits them nicely of our suite of zoning classes. So, agreed. They took us up on that suggestion. you have any questions of us? Um, this is the first time I've met with you all and done this. Um, I'll be back on the 22nd. You'll be here 22nd, this same room at 5:30 p.m. Chicago time.

Okay, very good. And as far as um I've taken some notes here, but as far as action items, what I need to do in between now and then, is it possible to to to go back over those um right here during the meeting or can I meet with afterwards? You can meet. Okay. Yeah, I just want to make sure that we're prepared and we bring everything that everyone was asking. Certainly, by all means. Um, yeah. So, okay. Okay. Yeah, let's do that after we adjourn and staff would be willing. We can go upstairs to conference room if needed if they've got the time. If not, we can schedule time for you to do that. Okay. Okay. Okay.

All right. So, this is an informal review. So, all we're giving you is a bunch of suggestions what you might face when you get to the plan. And then I think the biggest thing I took I got a bunch of notes but I think the biggest one I took on was a lot of the suggestions of the board members is maybe making some additional especially hydrology and the tiles. I thought that was a good suggestion and the impact of the road as far as any drainage streams. So if you haven't done that so I know you said sent pre-cent plans in which we have on file and you did your permits. I think the core stuff like that. That's correct. Yes.

Yes. But yeah, this other stuff that came up, get that to us. I think Kevin sits also sits on the planning commission. I think that would help decision. We will see you on April 22nd. Very good. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Anybody else have anything they want to bring up in general? All right, we're adjourned. Thank you. Thank you.