Planning & Zoning - Regular Meeting

Well, they can interact. Yeah, that's

I know we can um stream to YouTube tonight. We can so whatever anything it's not letting us connect but we can download it from Zoom or we can upload it from Zoom into YouTube recording but it's still streaming wirelessly. Okay. So join you via Zoom. I'm okay with that. Okay. Must be on YouTube.

I don't know. It's been giving me the last couple meetings we've had. I don't know what I'm call maybe the chainsaw didn't tell us. Maybe Hi. All right. We thought that Jim was going to be here. That's so too. Stan's not going to be here. He had another meeting.

Yeah. Jerry is outstanding for the work session. Yeah, just went over stuff. We're not going to vote on them. On the back of your packet, I did include

a new stuff that engineering sent over and they're going to go over this tomorrow with the botney. Okay. So, you guys are welcome to show up. Fish. Yes. Yes. talking are you? Which one are you reading? on street of this one of the small package standard for streets and sidewalks

walk length not to exceed 600 ft residential areas but I think that was for old side wasn't it dimensional standards no that's for standards and streets and sidewalks so yeah 600 feet residential areas current standard is quarter mile it looks like so we don't have extremely large box like Kylo Park. They're long say which Wiggins is 300 ft this way and I think they're 500 ft. Yeah. So I mean that's pretty Yeah, that's within that's within the standard then. Yeah. Current standard was like 1320 ft.

Yeah. So they could do a quarter mile lay of sidewalk like fifth or something. I was just trying to figure out where we even having Yeah. Maybe Kya Park on 11. Would that be 11? Fourth. 11th might be. Oh, Powell Park. Yeah. Yeah. Might be. Is pretty long. Yeah. Would that apply to park? Yeah. But see, Johnson would be Yeah. Johnson might be from one very end to the other in that area, but then you run into which one's that one? both not bison way but the far end one is wild cat

and that one definitely from Johnson that sidewalk goes all the way down and around and then comes back all the way circles around I mean like you know that's that's one long continuous sidewalk but I just wonder things I never thought it would be

standard is 1600 ft wig is that I think keep them. Yeah, I said I think it's 500 this way and 300 cuz our old lots were 150 25 by 150 ft lots. Then you gave 10 ft to the alley each property. So then your alleys were 20 ft wide which I'd like to bring back alleys and wigans. I don't like sewer, water, everything in the street because it gets way too expensive

homeowners. Yeah. And I know why they got rid of alleys is so they could put more houses so you could just butt your fence lines together. Right. Right. And cram more houses in. And that's where you get this. And that's why Kyle Park was done the way it was then. Yeah. So, if anybody Well, I mean, look what we're running into at um the farm. You know, the city the homeowners got three-y old houses, but their sewer lines are settling and now they're having to dig up streets and over um the Thompson. Yeah. Okay. Had there been an alley, the sewers were in the back, you could dig it up and fix it for a lot cheaper,

right? Because there's no pavement or anything. It's just dirt. Yep. You're looking at a $20,000 fix. Yeah. And that's who's going to pay for it. Cuz once, you know, once they turn over that development to us, they could say it's not ours and then the homeowners got to pay for it all the way to the main. Yeah. Well, that's 20 grand for them. Welcome in, Jim. How you doing, bud? It'd be better if you had alleys.

How you doing? Then you can run your I mean you can put your gas and water in the streets, but rarely do you have a lot of issues with those two. Your sewers, you have more issues. It's because of treatments. And telecommunications, you can run them in the alley. Yeah. I mean, you you have you have a lot of opportunity using the alley versus using the streets. Yeah. I mean, once you get in the street now, you got communications in the street, you got gas in the street, you got water in the street, you got sewer in the street, and then you got dig up Huh. We prefer being in the alley. Yeah. Because then we don't have to be tearing up and replacing concrete. Exactly.

That's what they were just saying. Yeah. I think, you know, I'd like to bring back alleys into our developments. Absolutely. Or rightways of Absolutely. Instead of having everything in the street. Yeah, developers won't like that. But they don't That's right. They don't have to fix. And like down in New Wiggins, they got utility ements in the backyard, but they're only in for what? Yep. He's just saying and you're still going through somebody's yard. Yep. People don't like their yard being Oh. Yeah. Especially if it's an easement, they have no say so if something happens.

Yeah. But they still don't like it getting torn. No. No. Yeah. Alleys are great. The fences have to come down the whole bit. Yep. Alleys are great for trash. Yeah. Trash cans out there. Mhm. Parking garages. Yep. Yep. All right. Well, now we can officially start the meeting, maybe. Yeah. Sorry. No, you're fine. We were just trying to be open each supper. By the time I was ready to leave the office, I got a phone call from one of the field guys. You had to stay. That's the way it always goes. Bunch of crap.

Okay. Time is 7:14 on Tuesday, April 7th. Planning and zoning commission meeting is hereby in session. Pledge of Allegiance. I'll wait for you to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Okay. Roll out, please. Stan Bombgartner is absent. Has anybody heard how he's doing? Jerry. Stan or Stan? How about Jerry? I haven't heard anything about Jerry. I haven't either. Jim Musgrave here. Jerry is absent. Jesse Borders here. Jeff Palmer here. Okay. Next is approval of the agenda. Oh, I make the motion to approve.

I second. Okay, we have a motion with a second.

And I'll move that we accept the minutes. I second both. We can do them both. It's all done in one. There we go.

Jim Musgrave. Yes. Uh Jesse Borders, yes. Jeff Palmer, yes. All right. Agenda and minutes from the meeting held on March 10th is approved. Okay. And we got a discussion for land development code update review of parking, fencing, buffers, landscape, and lighting, and then the proposed ADU ordinance review.

I just wanted to circle back around to what Britt Palberg was talking about last time. Um, I put down the specific things that we kind of spoke about during that meeting. didn't know if you guys had further thoughts or if there was other things that you wanted to talk about, but I did include his um information from that meeting. So, you could look that over some more

at the board meeting. Did they talk about the same same thing basically? Yes. Did they say anything that we hadn't said? No, not really. Did they so they didn't add anything new or did you bring up what we had talked about or did he No, it was his presentation was about I think 45 minutes and there just wasn't a lot of time for discussion after that. Gotcha. So no. So we had him actually we had him for longer then. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I haven't thought of anything else. Okay.

Really? Not really. I think we touched on a lot of the the stuff. Mhm. And there's still time to change stuff if you think of anything. So, you know, question I and I might have missed it going through that book, but uh wouldn't the land development code also address drainage study? I thought it did. I thought it did. I thought in the last I didn't bring mine this door. I didn't bring mine either.

I thought it was in here somewhere. A big old thick thing. these in traffic. I don't know if they definitely I didn't hear anything about traffic studies, but I know draining. I think traffic studies should also be included. I've because they can affect Well, yeah. A lot of stuff. I have seen in some of the documentation that that Hope had that she quite often would do traffic studies. I think we mainly require it done. Yeah, I think mainly it was for like the the be the building or the business district.

We done one I know we done one for the hotel when it was coming in but yeah I mean it' be something for a development you wanted a traffic study. Yeah, it depends on the type of development and also well I mean and where it's located. Residential would definitely increase our traffic. Well, we could probably estimate that it's going to be 600 new homes, I think. Yeah, probably. Mhm. Well, I mean, just look what just look what South Wiggins has done to our Yeah. Main Street. Yeah.

And that should have been that should have been addressed by those two developers. should have been put into there when they got all that completed or that would be repaid. Well, and that was I believe in the farm development. Yeah, we finally addressed it after the fact. Okay. It was after I got on the board because when I got on the board, they had already approved it and it wasn't. But then we talked to Ry, which Ray is a nice guy, and he said he would consider doing half, you know, with the town, which was very beneficial, but Yeah. And then there should have been a sidewalk. Correct. Correct.

From day one. Yeah. From day one all the way out there cuz I see people now walking on the dang And that's something that we could um put in here also is walking paths. Yeah. Anytime there's a new development, we make a walking path to the connecting from Yeah. Yeah. existing and preferably sidewalk. Yeah. Preferably be a concrete one.

Okay.

I know I saw something about here, but you're not giving up. I know I'm not sleep time. I got that. Yeah, I needed out on you. Read through his I read through the email. There's another small um packet behind the large one. That should have been what was in the email. And that is an update from um Rick Engineering what they're going to present tomorrow evening at the board meeting

and I won't be able to be there. Okay. Yeah, it's the last two pages, right? Oh, there it is. Yeah, it's not attached. So, what do you think about adding the R3 to it? for multif family units. I think it's a smart idea that we don't have a apartment complex just willy-nilly all over the place and you at least have structured

um framing for them to follow, you know, so you're not just kind of trying to build it up. If we do apartments by right, they can put an apartment anywhere they want it.

Right. 0 foot setbacks along Main Street and Central Minimum lot width 30 ft. What was the RR again? District zoning.

Thought E was education. I don't know what RR is. Cuz they go from existing at 43,000 to 435,000 square ft. brought my book, huh? Wish I'd have brought my You want your You want a book? Yeah. See if we have in there what we got. R is rural residential district.

Rural residential. That'd be kind of like your twoacre plots. And then er is is uh estate residential. State residential. Yeah, that would be your Yeah. Bye.

25% to be discussed. Increased tree requirements across the board. A lot of water. That's true. where we're also talking about encouraging people to zero escape,

right? Two per front yard of houses. Does anything stick out to you guys that you want to address? Not a very big very big pot on the 20,000 ft.

I was just looking dimension standards for building district minimum residential lot of 1500 square ft. That's not big. I mean, if 600 of that's tied up with a a small house, then yeah, it's not very big at all. Minimum residential lot in the MU, which is BD district,

right? Which is business, 1500 square ft. It's basically a 10 by 12 by Is that enough for an ADU type of lot? Is that what he's thinking? That's what I'm wondering. No, that's much of any kind of and I mean it kind of goes goes with their reduction on the setbacks for all of these. you know, put a smaller house there. Put a smaller

Well, it's a business, so put a smaller business there. Put a smaller lot size. Yeah.

What's our minimum number of stories on right now? Maximum or minimum? Well, minimum. Yeah, I think it's two. We're 40 foot on everything or essentially two and a half. So it' be a 30 by 50 watt essentially. Yeah. And then you have a 10-ft setback on all sides of that

according to what he wants anyway. If outdoor patios are included now, now they want to include outdoor patios too on that 10-ft setback to get that. But once again, this is business minimum non-resident. Well, I guess it's residential and business cuz the residential the non-residential is 2,000 foot. Thing is, you also have to have off streetet parking.

Do we have to have off streetet parking? We should, but I don't I think where it said in the parking standard, it said adjusting parking was uh adjustment to parking requirements for different uses. Well, when I was reading, I guess it was in the the ADU thing, they didn't have they didn't, right? They didn't have to have no off street parking. I think with the usage I I think somewhere it said that we can't stipulate that they can't have or that we can't stipulate the parking just uh

yeah since it's a public street it would be hard to stipulate that because I mean taxpayers right making Yeah, it' be kind of unless unless there was expressly written that there was no parking allowed there on that street. Um they don't have to have off- streetet parking from what I was reading. Yeah. Okay.

Which I'm I'm kind of assuming that these lots are the same way. I don't know if I don't know if we can say they can or can't have parking or need to have parking I should say. So these are essentially just 30 by 50 minimum lots. Industrial down to 8,000. And I get that close to 15.

Wouldn't we need off street parking though for business district stuff? Yeah. And I'm sure we would would need that for industrial too. People workers and stuff need to park. People who aren't permanent fixtures. 8,000 square foot lot building with a building on it. They didn't have much parking

for the people that work there or the people that come to buy or whatever. when the minimum is going 50,

right? Which would make it would have to be longer at that point if it was 50 foot. So, we're looking at probably 150 just over 150. Yeah. 160 by 50 would be that lot size,

I would say. in in my mind in a retail commercial district shouldn't be any residential lot. If you want residential, you could put it above and I think that's that might be where they're going for. That's what the mixed use I think they were going to do. If they were putting a storefront like on Maine or something and they had the condominium above it, you know, the minimum size of that condominium or not condominium but loft house would have to be 1,500 square foot. Yeah, but it's saying minimum residential lot instead of minimum residential unit. Right. Right. Right. So instead of the building, we're talking about the lot. Yeah. I

mean, you wouldn't want any residential lots in your cuz that's why we got a problem on our main street. We've got main street with businesses and then an apartment or well kind of an apartment right next to the hardware. Mhm. Right next to the liquor or the bar. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz if that's the case, then the empty lot where the farm equipment, you could put a residence there. Definitely a big enough lot to do it.

Yeah, I'd rather have it. That's part of That's part of M Ranchito's property, right? Well, it' be Yeah. Trying to think who owns that. I think I think they own that whole lot there all the way back to second. Right. By the the hardware. No, not by the hardware. Oh, you were talking about where they had they park the tractors and stuff all the time on No, I was talking on Main Street. used to be in White Farm Wings Farm Equipment. Okay. Yeah. That empty lot there, that's where they that was their implement parking had their tractors and it was all parked there,

right? But now, I mean, if we keep it as a commercial district, cuz I think Main Street right there is commercial, isn't it? And that where we have in our land and our zoning. I think we have our We don't have that. Do we have a map? I think it's in the development code update here. Think it is commercial. Thought it was. Maybe it's in the email. If we could zoom in. Got a magnifying glass. You got a magnifying glass. I'm pretty sure it's that's commercial. I think that's I'm sure it is

cuz I know they've got Dixon Street where our plumbing shop was. There was four lots we own. They claim that's commercial. And it's like, how can that be commercial when you got on what street? Dixon. Is that by the church? That'd be the 300 block. It was where we had our plumbing shop. We have. So, you know where um the hardware store is? It's the red building behind the hardware store.

Yeah. See, we still own five lots actually. That's sits beside the to the south of what the red building. Yeah. And there's houses here. And then you had footies von Lowe's on the corner. But then when Bill tore that down, then Hope told him, "Nope, it's commercial. You can't." That's why Yeah. You can't put a house there cuz it's commercial. And he's like, "My this house has been here for ever." Yeah, but it's commercial. So he's like, "Then how did the house go in that was right beside footies?" because that was put in in what? Early 2000s.

Nope, it's commercial. Because she wouldn't let us do anything there unless it's commercial. Okay. It's like, well, why don't we make it a business district? Well, that'd take a vote of the the board to change it. Okay. Why just change the zoning of it? Say it's business district multi-use or something. Yeah. cuz that house there on the corner cuz it used to be a junkyard actually long long time ago.

Okay. So, I wrote down things that you guys would like to see is drainage studies, traffic studies, concrete walking paths. You like the idea of having an R3 district? Absolutely. Yeah, I think that'd be better than just Okay. Alleys are necessary. Um, and the minimum lot seems small for the business district. Is that right? Well, it depends on what we're business district. I guess it depend on a residential lot. We were confused about why there's residential lots and also the size cuz the minimum lot size for a non-residential lot there is 2,000 which is still kind of small

in the Yeah. In the multiuse minimum nonresidential lot of 2,000 square ft. I I keep missing the multi-use part of that be something we would want to talk to him about. You know what about parking in front for the business because it's a non-residential lot. So that'd be a business. Maybe they could require parking in the back or something or off streetet parking like you were saying. Yeah, I guess that's what they're looking to do. But then you would want to keep your lot a little bigger if you done a storefront. So there is room to park.

Yeah. If you took all that up with 2,000 ft of storefront, where would you park? That's what you got setbacks and all that stuff. You got Yeah. In a business, a 2,000 foot business isn't a real big business, right? I mean, it's I mean, it's not going to be tiny. 100 ft long and 20 ft wide. It' be long and skinny or 50 by 20. It would be 50 by 30

30. Um, and this is where your alleys would tie in as well, you know, because I mean, if you have off- streetet parking in the back, then the alley would be access, you know, so it would just enhance the idea of alleys might be a good idea, you know. Yeah. For everybody, you could have your employees and everything park in the back and then for street parking would be for customers and business delivery. Yep. On Main Street. Main Street, I can see street parking, but on Central Avenue, I can't see street parking. No, you'd want to not do street. Not as much.

I don't think I'm pretty sure Akran doesn't allow street parking on 34 if I remember right. I don't think they do. No, they don't. Yeah, cuz it's all taken up by just like that's what we'd have here. You have highway, but it's Highway six again. I mean, they got Highway 34, but we Yeah, you wouldn't want to park next to that, right? With all the semis and Yeah. open your door and lose a leg. So, back to residential lots. Um, CD district, that's not mixed use. They're not showing that as mixed use. And we're having residential lots there.

Yeah. It says retail, commercial. Yep. I wouldn't have any residential in a commercial district. Mhm. And I could see 5,000 ft being a decent

lot. Yep. For straight retail reduction in minimum lot width to 30 ft. So it could be a 30 foot watt that's 50 foot long or I guess that's 5,000 square ft. So we're back up to Yeah. I mean I see where he's getting reduction in 30 ft wide. No change in building height number of stories. You'd really have to adjust your setbacks if you're going to keep a residential lot in a retail cuz right now you got I think it's 7 ft on each side 25 ft from the front

depending on ft because what they wanted to do over at the cottages was 7 foot 7' 6 in on both sides and that they wanted to reduce it to that you know and I think it was 15 feet on the sides was what I know in our pulled in. It's 7 ft cuz that's what I did on my house. I went 8 ft. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. 7 ft from side, 25 ft from front. And then alley was if you had no if you had no entrance, you could do zero on the alley, which I don't know who would do that, but if you have entrance, it's 10 ft if I remember right.

I mean, the 30 foot setback would still leave room for parking in the front. Yeah. if they wanted to go that route.

But a 30 foot minimum width lot, how deep would it have to be to have 5,000 square ft? Hold up. I'm not mathing well tonight. So almost 200 foot. Is it? Well, 6,000 foot 6,000 foot would be 200 foot. So, yeah, you're looking at like 175 or Yeah. 170 165 up that deep.

No, they're all 150s. You done that, you'd have to have no alley and then just have one that Yeah. district reduction minimum lot area to 8,000 square ft. Wonder what they're manufacturing in that place. Yeah.

It's reduced from 125 to 50 foot manufacturing candle. Soap. Yeah. You know how big is like extreme law? I guess I guess they are kind of manufacturing.

Yeah. They'd be manu and your industrial would be oh that'd be like XL and M keys plant blue lightning. I mean, I guess it industrial though, it could bring in a smaller industry. That way, they wouldn't have to have such a a big lot if they didn't want to. I mean, the options there if they

Right. And that's I mean, that's a good thing to have that option if they do want a smaller lot and they want to work in a smaller area. Yeah.

You know, instead of forcing them to have a 14,000t lot that they're just never going to utilize. Yep. remember it in the building code. The actual building code and R2 encompasses or two. It was I

where'd it go? Residential district. Yeah. But in the actual building code itself, which is the international building code, covers residential occupancies containing more than two dwelling units where occupants are primarily permanent such as apartment houses, condos, and dormitories. These buildings typically feature non-transient residents like an R1. Unlike R1 which is hotels require specific fire resistance construction. So there's already R3 would already be encompassed in that then wouldn't it?

Yeah cuz the key aspects of an R2 occupancy is buildings with two dwelling units or sleeping units. Occupants are usually there for more than 30 days. apartment buildings, boarding houses, condos, co con co convents, dormitories, fraternities, sororities, vacation time shares. So that's what the actual R2 is. We should probably line it up with the building code in our code, you know, and R2 is this and our And then we could change it. We could say, well, we have a special place. We're going to call it an Earth. But let's see what's an R3. There is an R3 in the building code. R3 of an IBC. The R3 is residents residential occupancy classification for permanent lowdensity housing and small care facilities. Typically one and two family dwellings, town houses, and small boarding homes. applies to buildings with fewer than 16 occupants for boarding, congregate living, or five or fewer of care facilities. Key aspects of an R3 occupancy covers buildings intended for permanent residents such as detached one family homes, two family, and town houses.

Yep. So, that would be an R3. Yep. I think R2 kind of Yeah. encompasses that, too. And then an R1 is like a like I said a I believe that's like hotels. So an R1 is residential containing transient sleeping units typically used for less than 30 days. Key examples are hotels, motel, transient boarding houses. So we should have our R1's R2s R3s line up with the building code. What what building code are you looking at?

That's the IPC, International Building Code, which Wiggins is on the I think it's 2018. Yeah. And they That's what we're supposed to be following. Yeah. So, when we do our land development, we should have it the same as, right? We got builders coming in, they're going to say, "I'm going to build an R1." Their R1 is different than R. Yeah. R1. R1. That would be bad. Absolutely. R our R1 is single family residence and we okay and then they come up with a 100 room apartment or hotel you're like wait a minute supposed to build a house big yeah big big house for a lot of people

cuz that's what we in the plumbing code that's what we reference is you R1 R2 R3 that's how we look at it so if I come and call you and say, "Hey, you know, they're building an R1." You're going to be like, "Oh, it's a single family house." No, it's a hotel. Okay. So, we'll be on the same page. Yeah. Instead of instead of wild westing it and just making up our own rules, follow at least some kind of international standard. Yeah. You know, fun at all. See why they adopted the IB, right? Yeah.

And you're right. It's it is actually a good idea to follow that. because we are getting more people coming from other places trying to build here. And an R4 is classifies residential and assisted living facilities, six to 16 residents excluding staff on a 24-hour basis. That's what an R4 is. So basically our Yeah. little old assisted living up there is an R4 cuz I think their rooms I think they got 12 I think. So I think it's 12 rooms in there. Okay.

And then trying to see don't no Yeah. So, there is no R5 unless you're in Chicago. They got an R they got an R5 in their building code. What's that?

In Chicago. It is refers to residential buildings with no more than four stories above grade containing one to two one to three dwelling units or certain small detached care facilities. These are typically characterized by non-transient single household occupancies. So they actually can go up to four stories where ours goes to three stories or less or two stories or less. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But we're not No. So we should have a I mean R1 through R4. Yeah.

So that would change our We got an R1 here, but his R2, well, in an R1, well, that's residential district, but then in the residential district, we should call it an R three. That'd be single family units. in the residential and an R2.

Now, if you change the year of the build of the IBC, is that going to change the definitions of R3, R2, and R1? No. Does that stay the same? Um because what I'm looking at here is showing that these are the 2021 2024 code for the IBC group RS and it's the same as Jeff was saying. So it hasn't changed since 2018. It's it's 20 standard 2003 it's been the same since since we adopted the IBC or the international codes in the state since 2003. They haven't changed. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, we just need to have a So

like an R2, we wouldn't want an R2 in a residential district because it would be a part such as Well, he's wanting to come up with like apartment houses, condos, condominiums, dormitories, but that should already be our R2 that we already have. And they're just calling it a residential district in ours. R2 and R1 is a single family residential in ours. R2 we allow apartments be right here a classification of R3 for multifamily by right but an R3 is a single family

permanent residential buildings with no more than two dwelling units such as one or two family excuse me sorry's hotels Yeah, like you said, transient nature and everything, too. So, in R2 proposed a minimum lot is 1500 square ft. That'd be hard to put an apartment building on a 1500 foot lot unless it's 50

or a convent or a dormatory or a fraternity or sorority, a monastery or a vacation. You can do a vacation time share. We can do a vacation time share in our condos. More than two dwelling units. So, a condo would be like three dwelling units, but that'd still be 1,500 foot lot on a condo. You wouldn't have a lot of room for parking for three. Mhm.

Right now, we have two apartment condo type things. Unless it was one spot per unit, you know, and I think you're supposed to have at least two or something like that, I think. Yeah, you'd have to have two cars per year. Yeah. Can we move on a little bit and touch on some of the other stuff? Yeah. Which other stuff were you thinking? The other stuff. Yeah. I just know there's a lot to go through,

right? All right. Where were we? I guess we were on the next page. Multi-use big business districts, your standards for streets. You said you were at 500, right? Or sidewalks on streets. Yeah. Yeah. Like his idea of block length not to exceed 600 ft in residential areas. Yeah. current five sidewalks. I think it's a good idea because I walk on. Is that the ADA compliant? I believe ADA is 5 foot on a sidewalk. I believe I believe it is. Yeah,

cuz I think over here is what they pour. Those are like I don't think they're some of them aren't even 4 foot. And I know when you're walk when I'm walking my two dogs Yeah. and there's somebody else coming towards me. It's we got to go out to the streets is what I do. Get out of their way cuz I got the dogs. Yeah. But if you didn't have the dogs, it'd be you're rubbing shoulders when you walk on it, right? Okay. So, yeah. 5T is somebody in wheelchair. Yeah. And you can walk past them. Multi-use business. Large windows on storefronts. Architectural elements,

cake plates, corners, spans between floors, awnings, canopies, landscaping kind of gets into the hard areas again with water. I I understand what they're trying to do with all of this, but I don't know that it's Wiggins, right? And I mean we a lot of it's just going to end up looking like Fort Morgan Main Street type stuff. You know what I mean? And the one bummer with larger windows if we require it on businesses then they get easier. It's easier to me it's easier to break into them. You're seeing a lot of that. Yeah.

Throwing stuff through the window and then going right on in. Or a vehicle crashing through. Yep. On the highway. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if if the storefront owner wants to put a large window, that should be it. I mean, but to require it, but to require him to do it, I don't have a I don't like that. Could be up to whatever they want. And if they want the awnings and canopies, then they can put them on. If not, Mhm. It's handy for weather.

Yeah. when you exit or enter if it's raining or whatever gives you a chance to stop under them. But whether we make them do it right, once again it's kind of their their property kind of thing. You know, recessed entry. I guess on a recessed entry that would depend on your sidewalk size. to be fair, these are all elements that are encouraged, not necessarily set in stone or required or anything. So, I don't think I think like I said, a recess entry depends on how much sidewalk you have. Also, a lot of sidewalk, you wouldn't need a recess,

but if you don't have a large sidewalk, the recess helps for also depends, I guess, on how big their lot size is, right? Yeah. It also kind of depends on which direction the building is facing. Yep. Because sometimes a prevailing wind may you may want to reset. Yeah. And sometimes you don't cuz it's going to fill up with snow.

Reset. Streetscape elements completed either by property owner or by town. Lighting, seating, street trees and landscaping. If there street trees and landscaping, that should be town. Mhm. Cuz it's in the street. Cuz it's in the street. Yeah. If it's in their property. Yeah. And they're required to have a certain amount of landscaping. Yeah.

Then it's on them. If it's in the Lighting's a good thing, but too much of it gets rough. Yeah. I got that storage unit right by my house and they got some god lights on that thing after 7:00. That's all because of theft. Yeah. No, I I one of my one of my units over there was one of the ones broken into, so I I get it completely. I would say the seating would only come into play if it's um are they wanting benches just the fronts? Well, I'm thinking seating would be to me like a coffee shop, a restaurant.

Yeah. Then you'd want your patio seating and that would be up to the the owner. Yeah. Yeah. But then you'd have to make sure you accommodate they have enough room to do it.

Mhm. design standards including architecture for residential districts. Model varieties Every fourth home in a row must include a different model, window placement, wall pane, pl might exceed 50% but building frontage.

I don't know. I don't see really much wrong with that. Park can be located to the side or rear limits on the length of walls based on street can't be anything change the color could be encouraged but Right. I mean, there's already kind of limits on the length of the walls that face the street because they can only build within a certain space on their area. Yep. Then you get the question, what happens if the Lowe's comes in or some big box store?

Yeah. Yeah, they definitely eat up a lot of space. just have to buy a whole lot of lots. Even if they bought a whole lot of lots, we would still have a limit on how long that building was. Yeah. To link the wall on facing the primary street, you know. Mhm. If it's a big box store, you know, Walmart hits,

are they going to have to make all kinds of angles in their wall to break it up? I don't even know if angles in the wall would break that up.

Yeah, I'm not sure that. Not that Wiggins is ever going to get a big box. A low would be nice. I can stay in Fort Morgan. E. Yeah. Going to out here would be nice. Need a brush or Morgan in between. Yep. Right out here. I don't know. We got the hardware store. Yep, we do.

What would that mean for the hardware store at that point? Cuz that's pretty much I guess it's two businesses broken up and they're attached to each other. Yep. So working landscape standards for parking lots to avoid mass areas and break up areas parking. We don't really have any parking lots. I don't really see anywhere that would be parking lots either for the school.

Yeah. And the little parking lot that we have in front of Napa. But adjustments to parking requirements for different sizing landscaping plans required with site plans completed by licensed professional which would probably come with that drainage testing that you would that we were talking about. I would say on the completed by a licensed professional on like commercial. Yeah. I wouldn't put it in residential.

No. Cuz then that'd be adding a pretty good chunk of cost to somebody's blueprints, right? Especially when if a homeowner is like, "Hey, I can draw my bushes in." Mhm. Mhm. Why do I have to have it done by a engineer? This this this home improvement project just got real expensive. The only other place something like that would be required is in HOA. Yeah. Yeah. And they're going to do that anyway. So

the installation of the backflow pre should be done by a licensed professional. So is this limits on the percentage of open areas on lots planted as irrigated turf 25 maximum or 25 minimum limits would be 25% be a limit on the percentage of open areas although it's planted should be 25% total I think okay

so whatever you build you got to have at least 25% Then I mean me, I have a hard time telling somebody you can't put grass all over your yard cuz you're going to pay for it, right? To me, it ought to be more like you get an incentive to not put grass all over your yard. Yeah. Cut the water. Yeah. But you know, you got to be like, "Hey, if you only if you get zerocape, we'll give you a $25 gift certificate to the hardware." stuff like that, you know, incentives to to minimize your use. I just have a hard time telling somebody you can't. Yeah, absolutely.

Cuz it's your lot. I mean, it's your it's your yard. It's your and that's it. House. If you want to put grass everywhere, do it. Go ahead. You're going to pay it in water. But if you think about it, you know, I mean, you're using all that water. If you didn't, we'll give you $100 discount at something or whatever. Kind of just do a Okay. incentive. Like a rebate or Mhm. There was a town in I read that in my plumbing and mechanical magazine when I was plumbing. I think it was Oregon, which they have more water than they know what to do with.

Yeah. But they were giving out um rebates to people that brought in the fact that they would you bought lowflow toilets, low flow. They were giving them uh gift cards to mom and pop stores and all that that people brought in their PUC's that Mhm. and zero escaping and stuff like that. They were getting incentives to people, tax incentives like on electric vehicles and stuff like that. Yeah.

Yeah. The town was was a small town in Oregon. And I brought it up to the board then. That was never looked at me like what? And that's before we even had our new the new water. That was when we were still on the never we ain't going to do that. I'm like okay the thought. I mean incentivize people to save water, right? Increase tree requirements. I'm going to say no on that one. I like trees, but two in a yard.

Water to get started. And sometimes they take a pretty good amount of water to keep them alive. Yeah. I could say instead of doing two, you'd have I'd say each house has to have a tree. Trees are beneficial. Yeah.

Very beneficial. Even in zerocape, they're beneficial just for producing eating up all that bad carbon. That really bad carbon we got. And then I would say in commercial and industrial. Yes. One every 40 ft in industrial areas and commercial areas. Well, I don't know. Depends on the type of industry. I mean, can you imagine Cargill having to plant tree every 40 ft? No. I don't even think I've seen Cargill, so I can't really They don't have any trees. Yeah. Could you imagine

the pino stuff? Yeah, they'd be stuck. Trees around there. Yeah. With their uh with all the Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Well, they say trees, but if that one you could say maybe in the frontage, like along the street. Yeah. You know, if your building is like a Lowe's or whatever, you could have them put out in the front of the building one every 40 ft or whatever and they could they could tie that in with their parking lot where they put them in the islands in the parking lot, which they do now. I mean, if you go by Lowe's and Brighton and all that, they have trees in their parking lot. I think that might be what he's getting at.

But you'd have to specify in the front or in the parking area or that would be it. You couldn't say the way it is now, you know, one every 40 ft be all the way around your buildings. Yeah. Would be good for industry or commercial or some kind of landscaping that involves a tree here and there. Yeah. Is zero escape landscape landscaping strongly encouraged or required? I wouldn't make it required, but I'd make it strongly encouraged. Incentives again,

possibly. Yeah, maybe that's another thing like making people put a tree in. That's once again, you're making them do a tree, but you could encourage them or the town could hand out free trees once a year. It's going to get expensive. Well, I mean, you don't do one for every resident, right? You know, when we're doing our tree or arbor day, the town has 10 trees at a discount cost or whatever.

Don't give it away for free, but don't give it away for $500 either. You know what I mean? Right. Right. Right. Right. And I mean people already pay taxes so we don't get a whole lot for our taxes anymore, right?

We had kind of talked about last time the dark sky regulations that you guys kind of liked that idea. Well, yeah. I mean, I thought we need the lighting, but we need the lighting, but not up. They done lamp posts and and you know certain streets like especially the back streets in town they're they're definitely dark you know like if somebody wants to walk or parks or I mean parks should be lit up. Yeah. Not like big old lights but No baseball. Yeah. Not with the baseball lights but like where they got now with a sidewalk all around it. You get on cuz I've walked at night. You get on the back side by the water tower. It's pitch black. Some soft lighting. And then you got all those trees there. Mhm. me. I'm I'm not worried about What about a woman? Yeah.

Out jogging in the night or whatever. There could be some crepo. I know it's wagons, but there could still be some crepo hiding in them trees. Nowhere safe from that No. Excuse me. It's dark. You never you never see anything. Yeah. So, to me, or definitely in public areas should be more lit up. Okay. ADUs. We've got a whole bunch to talk about. Yeah. On AD. Do you want to do that now? Yeah, we should since we're there.

I gave you guys just a whole lot of information. Um, and then also the proposed ordinance to allow it. The one thing I'd address right away, no separate water and sewer taps unless they have to tap the water and sewer. Now, so have them on a shared tap. Yeah. Because I mean, you're you got an accessory dwelling unit already on your land. Yeah. So, you're more than likely the water is going to come from the existing building. And it'd be up to the homeowner if he wanted to meter the water for his accessory unit to charge his renter. I agree with that.

But the town's already getting paid through the water meter. Yep. No matter what, cuz it has to go through the main water meter. Okay. Now, if they're going to Now, if they're going to tap the main, well, of course. So on the proposed ordinance she has on here, utility service requirements, ADUs must be connected to water and sewer utilities serving the principal dwelling. Connections and fees shall be made in accordance with the requirements as determined. So that follows what Jeff was saying anyway because it's a it's it's connecting to what's already the existing t the dwelling.

So yeah, I agree with that 100%. See, and then what you got there is you've got the you've got the state plumbing code because they're going to have to pull plumbing, electric, building permits. And then the state inspector when he shows up, he's going to ask him to for the sizing of the water. Mhm. You know what I mean? If you only got if you got a 3/4 main in your house and you've got four bathrooms, you won't have enough water to supply. So he's going to tell the the guy, "You're going to have to upsize your main coming into the house, right?" Or run a separate main to the dwelling unit.

Yeah. So that might curb his idea of having an accessory dwelling unit where he comes to town and says, "I got to need another tap." Yeah. And then the town can charge him for that tap, which is a win on both ends. Yeah. Yeah. Or he can upsize the main coming into his house off that meter, which is still a cost to him. But may not be as substantial as adding a new tab. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um use by right? I think so because it's once again it's their land.

Absolutely. I agree with that too. So, if they want to do it and have a a renter and all that, go right on ahead. I guess where was the where was that whole list at? Because there was more on this back list than on the front list. And I know we he did add in this sheet to the ADUs, which I didn't see it on this one, was basement. Oh, yeah. An ADU can be in a basement as long as it has the bathroom, the kitchen, the living. Yeah, I didn't see it in ADU. Yeah, I didn't see it in this or internal. Oh, there it is. Such as in a basement or garage.

Oh, the internal part. Yeah, I would say ah the garage. Well, once again, you got building code that would should step in for fire. Yes, absolutely. Actually, I think in the building code, you can't have a residence in the actual garage. It has to be contained away from it. And then your furnace and ducting can't suck air from the garage through the furnace and into a living space. If they're converting the garage, the whole garage into an ADU.

Yeah. But you wouldn't Yeah. They'd have to do the whole garage, you still wouldn't be able to park. It couldn't it couldn't be like a garage anymore completely converted. Yeah. Yeah. You wouldn't want to you park or something. Yeah. And leave it idle and then warming up in the winter. Yeah.

Not good. Getting a little woozy in here, man. So with then use by right, you know, it kind of negates the special review use, you know, they wouldn't have to come to us or come to the board to plead their case and put up a variance or anything. Um, the one thing I would say is an ADU in my mind shouldn't be a short term. No, definitely not. Cuz then you're going to get what we call transient. Mhm.

Transient is 30 days or less. So if you're the poor guy, that's you know, if I do one and I I open it up to to somebody on the road and then somebody to me, you're drawing in an unwanted demographic to your town. Yeah. An unknown element. It's creating an unknown element. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's creating more of a criminal element in my if everybody wants to do that, you know, we're going to have all kinds of people that decide that they want to spend 30 days here and then leave whenever they want. And yeah, that's what we'll have. And how do you how do you bring into play then like the Airbnbs?

I think that would constitute the less than 30 days thing. And I don't I think they would have to be either a semi-permanent or a permanent fixture. something leased. Like my house could be an Airbnb, but not the accessory dwelling unit. Okay. And a lot of that is also up to your loan companies cuz I know when you do a loan, a lot of them say is primary or is this going to be an Airbnb? You're like me with my insurance. I can't turn my house into an Airbnb. Okay? Because it won't be insured.

Okay? So, I don't know if there's anybody in Wags that has an Airbnb. I've got someone who was questioning whether or not they could and we don't have anything on the books right now that says no, you can't. Yeah, I me I So, but I don't see where we would, but like I said, to me, it's up to your loan like the bank. It's even in my loan paperwork when I refinanced when I built the house and then when I refied it's it can't be used as an Airbnb for the first I think it's 5 years. And then my insurance said no at all. You have to get a special policy for B&B. Okay. So yeah,

I mean if you wanted to do it that way, your ADU then would have to prove that it has the insurance for an Airbnb and short-term rental property. Okay. You know, rather than tell them you can't do that, but this is what you have to follow if you want to do that. Mhm.

You pretty much went over water and taps. Yeah. Is on-site parking space required? I I think that, like I said before, I think that I don't think we can do that unless there's no parking on the streets. Yeah. One per lot, I think, is what they were suggesting. Yeah. I think most people turning like doing a garage and have an apartment above it. Yeah.

And then they could park on the street cuz most of the time the homeowner would park in the garage. So, I don't know if we'd require them to actually provide a parking spot rightly for them on their land. Unless specifically stated that they can't park on the street. Yeah. Yeah. If you're in a district that don't allow street parking, then you would have to provide parking for the person. Absolutely. I do think it should be. Yes. Yeah. Well,

yeah. Because even a tiny home is set on a If it's not set on a permanent foundation, then it's set and tied so it can't fall over, right? Like a trailer. Yeah. But not an RV or something. No. Yeah. We Yeah. Don't make it an RV or matching this the primary residence. Yeah. Yeah, they want it to look similar, not like a separate home. You want it hot pink while the house is

like a maximum of two people. Yeah, I wouldn't say a big old only going to be what 800 square feet. Yeah, but yeah, because we already have it in our land development code that you can't take up more than 60% of your land. I I think it's 50. I think the for drainage. Oh, I don't know.

I think that's cuz when I built my garage, Hope was at first like, "Oh, you're going to have to go get a special use cuz you're I done a 40 by 30." Cuz she's like, "You're covering too much of your lot." And then when I told her what my lot size was, she's like, "Oh, no. You're you're still good." And it's a 40 by 30. I think it's we can take up 60%. I think 60% is maximum of our lot size. It's somewhere in our somewhere in our land development. We should probably keep it the same that was actually in this packet, but I'm not sure. Does it address?

Yeah, it does. Do we address the Do we address the storm water off of it?

I didn't see that either. Cuz if you go off of the International Residential Code, all buildings shall have rain gutters and drainage.

Yeah. And I definitely didn't see any of that in here. Ordinance, land development code, waving, reducing fees, enacting local laws, writing pre-approved plans. Yes, that's a yes. Pre-approved plans as the inspector. That's so beneficial. There we go. Implementing a program to regulate the use of ADUs for short-term rentals, which I think we have to if we accept ADUs according to the state law, right? Isn't that what this is? Becoming certified by Dola. Since we're not a home rule, we have to follow.

We are a home rule now. Not the town. Oh, okay. The county. Yeah. I would like the town. And to me the to me town should be home rule cuz then you can say I don't want your crap you're passing up there out here. Yep.

Cuz towns get more leeway versus counties. Gotcha. Because then if we didn't want to have uh short-term rentals, you wouldn't have to. I guess can can be a short-term rental less than 3 days for consideration. Get funds from grants. Do we have to implement a program to provide education and tech assistance to homeowners?

We don't have to. No. Okay. It allows for implementation of any other strategy that is approved by Dola. Is there anything that we have to follow by Dola? um

become an ADU. Yeah, because it says we are not required to become an ADU jurisdiction, but we are opting in to do that. So when we as I say when we opt in, we have to have the ordinance approved. Okay. Um they're not they're not telling us exactly what we have to do. We're allowed to be flexible with what what is good for our town.

Supportive jurisdiction certification report showing implementation of one or more strategies from the legislation's list that encourages. So we do have to follow some type of legislative list. is what I'm gathering at least one or more of the strategies from the list that we have to that encourages ADU construction or conversion I think is what yes they're saying so like yeah we have two of the list of five I think we're that's what I'm saying what what is required on their list and what isn't

that is to become eligible for their funding that's what I mean so if we want their funding M then we'll have to do such and such. And I don't know offhand what those specifics are. Yeah.

Right now all we're required to do is have um the ordinance and commit in parenthesis commit to so many um buildings that are affordable. I'm sure they're going to want to see something reducing or providing assistance to ADU related fees and enacting local laws that incentivize that affordability. I think they probably want to see something like that, but

that's just speculation. I don't have any. The only problem with our state legislature and their affordability act is it's caused a lot of our small rural communities to be ridden with drug addicts and homeless people and and people that can't afford to live in the city and are still bringing their ideology out here. Yeah. That's why I was like when I saw that legislation's list, this right here is a list of what's required. Required or suggested? required for compiance.

What page you want? Oh, there is for consideration. Oh, that was that page that I was reading off of before. Yeah. Must allow at least one ADU where single unit attached non permitted. must use administrative review process with objective criteria cannot require parking or owner occas occupancy but that is in metrop the bigger cities that metropolitan planning organizations with a question has a question mark and I think

what do they consider metropolitan okay cannot apply restrictive design suggest that they have parking or Yeah. And it also says we cannot apply restrictive design or development standards as defined. Then how do we keep them from building a shanty house? Exactly. Cuz if that tells you cannot play restrict design, they could just pull over here and get a shed. Yep. Mhm. As long as they put it on foundation and it's more than 500 square foot

less than 750. Yeah. Can we have it written in there that the ADUs must meet local building codes? So that' be our IBC comply with all building codes adopted by the town. IBC IRC IPC. That' be the Colorado plumbing code. electric code. Yep. Yep. Then we're good.

And she's also got in here that it cannot be sold separately from the home. Yeah, I wouldn't. Yeah, you don't want to do that. Then you'd have a dispute between between homeowner and new owner of ADU. That would be the worst. That would be the wor that'd be one thing that we want to Yeah. You cannot I wouldn't want it more than 750 and and that would take up most of everything back. That's why I say then it'd have to meet our maximum to me it couldn't go over a maximum square footage of the lot size. So the smaller the lot, right?

If you have a larger lot you could do a little bigger one. And I want to say that there were still Okay. There was setback standards and everything too. So when you start complying with all that, if you're building a building in your backyard and you have setback standards, then you're going to be forced into smaller than 750. I would say you could do your minimum down right here in our proposed residential districts. Minimum square foot 600. Um if you go to page three, it has heights, um setbacks, rear setbacks, and lot coverage. I think. Yeah. Maximum setback.

If the zone district includes a maximum lock coverage allowance, the ADU is subject. So, we do have a maximum Mhm. lock coverage. Find it. You guys can keep all

the shall be no larger than 50% of the square feet of the principal dwelling or 700 square f feet. So it's its maximum size is 50% of the principal building on the property. That's the next page back. divine video is attached to internal portion back. He's prohibited it right now. I see a contradiction here.

What do you see? It says property owner is required to reside on parcels and then before they said that we can't and then down down below it says cannot require owner occupancy. Mhm. Yeah. That's a contradiction right there. Yeah. That's if we follow is that dola or is that Yeah, that'd be the dola. Do says we can't require that.

Yeah. This subject is being on vacuum.

Where are you? Oh, I was on page four. I think we ought to add in the facilities washer connection cuz you don't have a laundromat here. Going to have to have a sewer connection too then also. Yeah, it's got to tie into the main. They have to have their they have to have separate connections on page six. Do they have to have a tap? They have to have their separate taps, but they said that we couldn't do that.

Well, that's because the town's looking for money. I disagree because you're going to kill it right there. That's that that's currently in our code that you have to have separate connections for any home. So, they're applying to our ADUs. Yeah. But it's an accessory. It's not your primary. And to me, that's that right there will that'll kill it all. Mhm. Cuz no way in hell am I going to pay 5050 some thousand and have a separate meter.

Yeah. To me the only to me we got to amend that and say if they are required by you know plumbing code plumbing code that they need one then yes but absolutely but to me that's you're going to kill it right there. And what we're trying to do is make it more affordable to live and help people. And cuz like what if my son wants to move in with me and I build him a little I have to do another tap and another sewer tap. No. Yeah, I don't agree with that either. Yes. To me it should only be required if it doesn't meet code.

Okay. That to me is just looking to get more money for the town. And you're already going to pay more when you do your tax assessor because when he comes out and says, "Oh, you got another living unit." Your taxes are going up. Square footage went up. Yep. Oh, yeah. So, you're going to have the increased water usage. Yeah. You're going to get money for if it runs through the pipes that you've got. Yeah. It's getting paid for anyways. Yeah. And to me, he's the person that's doing the ADU is going to put a meter if he wants to. I would because I want to know how much water he's using, right? And then I can bill him accordingly.

Water pressure in your house. Yeah. I could see if they were separate lots. Yeah. Saying, "Hey, yeah, put that up." But if it's already on the same lot, then that lot's already paid for their tap. I couldn't see making them buy another one unless they had to. I know I know for a fact for Morgan's not requiring that. Brush isn't requiring that. Sterling's not requiring that. Anybody that wants to get in on any of the benefits from building more moderately priced homes is they're not going to require that, right?

Yeah. Yeah, cuz I mean like my parents, they're getting old. What if I move them into my Yeah. And consider that an accessory dwelling? I have to pay a tap and they're in my basement. Like there like interior interior dwelling units. Yeah. Regardless common ownership, each structurally well be structurally independent. Well, what if I don't have a basement and I want to put my parents out back?

Yeah. I got to buy a tap. Then how am I going to run it? I mean, think about it. You're gonna have to dig up the street, tap it, put another meter, and then try to find a way to run run around your house with a water line, and then dig up the alley, run a sewer. Now you're looking at 80 grand before you even put the building in. Yeah, you'll kill it. That's just basically might as well build a house for my parents. Not wrong. Build a house.

Why are they moving out of theirs? Same amount of live there. Yeah. Then you have something that you could sell. Yeah. Yeah. I don't agree with that. I'm going to um type up what you guys have talked about, things you were very adamant about and I'll present that to the board so that they have your your needs are addressed. Yeah. Just are Yeah. I mean, it's ultimately up to them. Yeah. But to me, you can tell them that it's going to kill it. Yeah. That'll kill it.

Nobody will be able to No, nobody will even consider doing it. Yeah. And I mean, if that's if they don't want it, that's one way to do it. Yeah. I was going to say maybe that's the point. Yeah. I don't know. And to me, I think I think you could challenge that in a court. I don't know why you would opt into a program just to kill it on launch. Yeah. Might as well not even opt into the program at that point.

We just bit about We just almost did what Donald Trump did tonight. Nuked Iran. We about nuked our 80. That will it'll kill it. You might get you might get one or two when somebody has the money, but I can tell you the majority of the citizens in Wiggins free strapped. Yeah. Even even with grants from Dola, they're going to forget it. Yeah. cuz Dola is not going to give no Dola might help him with some financing or whatever or down payment or something, you know, you might get five grand or something. Not going to make up for the amount of a tap. No. And the amount of just dirt work. Yeah.

And if somebody does lease that out to somebody, it's not going to be an affordable house at that point. Yeah. Because then when you do sell it, these fees, you do sell it, you're going to try to recoup what you got into it. You're going to tell them, "Well, that accessory dwelling unit cost me $145,000." What? Yeah. Can you sell it for that, right? Yeah. Okay.

Cuz I mean, I got in my garage. I got a a 1-in water line in my garage and it comes from my meter into my house through my house. I drilled the the uh foundation and ran my line out and went into my garage. cuz I got a bathroom in it. Not finished, but and I got plenty of water from my house and that it's a 1 in line coming into my house. I sized it. I sized it accordingly. Now, would they tell me if I wanted to put something in my garage, I got to buy another tap?

No. Well, no. I don't think so. Especially when I have definitely met the volume needs for that that unit. Yeah. Okay. Because I mean you could also consider it a man cave, right? You know, if I build if we allow accessory dwelling units and I don't want to make it into a dwelling unit to rent, but I want to put my man cave in there, but I have to buy a tap. neck for a man cave has a bathroom and a sleeping and I don't know you might you know I mean it' be considered an accessory dwelling unit.

Yeah. Got a space would that be? No cuz about separate structurally independent building. Yeah. But by this ordinance, would they consider a man cave that has a sleeping quarters and a bathroom in it? That's just that's just terminology. It's still an ADU. Yeah, I would have to have a separate tap for it cuz that's what I plan on doing in my garage, not having going to put a couch out there and it's going to have a shower and it's got that's considered a basically a dwelling unit. I mean, you could be living there

if Well, an ADU has to have the stove and the sink and Yeah, but I mean, my I could do all that right now. Basically, I could stop stove in there, you if I stop parking in it. Or put a microwave. Or if I close off the front half because it's large enough and turn that into living quarters, I buy that because it's already tied into the sewer. And I had plumbing inspections done on it, electrical inspections. I didn't had a building inspection. It wouldn't be retroactive, but I have a feeling if if he was building that now.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, back then, I mean, I had talked about putting a apartment above it cuz I was going to go higher. And I told that to Hope and she's like, "Well, I don't know that you can do that." I said, "Yeah, it's a man cave." How tall is your house? In my garage, it's 12t sidewalls. Well, how how tall is your house? House. Your the primary primary residence is It sits up high because I definitely didn't ever want water in it. And I live on high street so I wouldn't get water any but I think it's 9 foot probably 14 about 14 feet off the ground. Your your accessory dwelling unit can't exceed the height of your house. But see there it there was a garage and my garage could go 30 ft.

Oh okay. Okay. M. So, I could have done 22 foot sidewalls and then done the apartment above it and done the apartment above it cuz I was actually going to do that for my for Chuck. He's my best friend, but he's a trucker and it was going to be a place for when he gets off the road for like a week or whatever, he just crashed there. Yeah. Within the the amount of money. I was like, you can't do it. It's just a man cave. I'll tell

because actually uh the uh Wiggins Electric which is in the town of Wiggins above that their one shop there's an apartment up there and it's been there since they built it. Mhm. Yep. It's got a bedroom, bathroom, stove, kitchen. Yep. above their uh warehouse there. It was built that way. I don't know whenever it was, but yeah, we still had our land development code then and it was approved. Okay.

But that means they have to buy another tap. I don't know. I think W probably has a big enough tap. Okay. Um, yeah, I'd bring that one up to him. One thing we didn't talk about was electric vehicle charging standards. We do have people in town that have electric vehicles. Absolutely. To me, it's up to the It's up to whoever has the lot that is that part of Now, that's one that's one thing. And this is it a requirement is a requirement on the ADU since it come from our legislators? No, cuz you know how they are.

It's not on there. Okay. I mean, to me, it ought to be up to per use for homeowner. If the homeowner want to put a a 220 outlet for their car, so are they are we talking about ADU still then? No. No, this is just so is it for you know are we trying to any new bill to do something or trying to get grants for something to put these in or anything? I think yeah just not they're not it's not currently addressed in our land development code. I mean we do have we have I want to say probably four or five of them you know. Yeah. to me.

If Stubs wants to put in a charging station, why not requiring it? But we don't need to require it. I don't think so. No, I have a hard time with that cuz some people don't want them, you know, and I know they almost implemented that last legislative session that all new new build and all remodels had to. So, if you were going to remodel your bathroom, there was no square footage minimum either. Let's say you remodeled your bathroom in your house. You had to put a charging station outside for a car. That's ridiculous. Especially Why? And those things aren't cheap either. You know, spend $6,000 on a charging station just because you want to your bathroom up.

They almost made that a law. Yeah, that's crazy. And part of that law too was sprinkler systems that if you were selling your house, let's say you put your house up for sale, didn't have a sprinkler system, in order to sell it, you had to put in a sprinkler system, a high efficiency sprinkling system on your yard. That was part of all those zeroscape yards that we had, right? And I'm like, you can't make people that trying to sell their house make them put that Well, they were going to. Luckily, it got kicked out. Good. But I don't know if they're trying to bring it because they got 800 new bills coming. They definitely know

it. It just increases the property value, increases the property value, increase the tax value, and all of a sudden they're getting more money. One other thing addressed too is the maximum size. You when we were talking about the sizes on the 1500s, those were minimum sizes that we were talking about. So like it doesn't necessarily mean that those have to be that small you know must allow ads much bigger than see it says on most aren't big more than that's to me

no no we were I was talking about I wasn't talking about the ads I was talking about when we were talking about like for the residential one R1 R2 um when we were talking about minimum lot sizes and They were they were the minimums. They weren't the maximums that they were listing off. So, I mean, I think in our ordinance, we put it couldn't be more than 750. 750.

Yeah. 750 or 50% of the square footage of the principal dwelling. It's on page two. size shall be no larger than 50% of the square feet of the principal whichever is larger. So it can't be no larger than 750 or 50%. Yeah, it can't be larger than 750. Well, but if the house is say a,000, it can't. That's another that's what I was going to address is because if you have your house, you have a our mile 1,800 with my basement's I have 3,600. That means I could do an 18,800 foot ADU.

No, because it can't be larger than 750. Well, whichever is larger. Yes. It says ADU shall be no larger than 50% of the square feet of the principal dwelling unit or 750. Whichever is larger, right? Yeah. So, if my house is bigger than the 750, I could put an 1800. Technically though, I think they're going off the footprint of the house. Yeah. So, I could do an,800 foot ADU. Your footprints will be No, it says cuz he said he was square feet of the principal dwelling. Yeah.

So, I could do but then you also have a basement, right? So, you're doubling your house size. So, you have 3600 square ft basically of principal dwelling unit. So you could do 50% of that which is 1,800 square foot if you have the property size for it I guess. So maybe we ought to say 50% of the footprint of the primary residence because if we do square feet of principal someone could add their basement square footage and say I could do an 1800 square foot but then what we have there is our you can't cover more than x amount of your lot size. Mhm.

True. Also, and I think we said that there was something about that like 60% or something like that or whatever. Yeah, it's right here.

It's so section two. Maximum maximum lock coverage. Note all requirements uniform building code introduction building number of stories not include basement uniform lots comprising 25% more frontage no building after director shall project beyond the predominant setback doesn't say anything about residential districts maximum coverage blanks out.

Yeah. And RR is 20% and er is 20%. Minimum log area industrial cuz hope told me I couldn't be more than No, she said 60 couldn't cover more than 60%. So I don't know where she got that. Unless it was just one of those magic numbers. To me, it makes sense because drainage. If you cover all your lot with a building, you're going to have a lot of a lot of water concentrated in one spot. Your roof is going to dump a lot of water on somebody else.

Yeah. So, therefore, you'd have to have some type of drainage plan. That's why to me it can't cover more than X amount of your lot. because you have to have a way to convey that water. So what would what would you say the maximum amount of lot coverage for an ADU would be? I would say your whole total lot couldn't be covered by more than like 60 or 70%. Okay. Of leaving out buildings and 40 for your house and 30 for your accessory dwelling unit. Yeah. Yeah, that leaves that leaves 40% of your entire lot open to absorb the water.

So, we're 4020 for your accessory dwelling unit, which would make sense because that's 50% of the house size of your house or the footprint of your house. So, 40% of your house is covered on your or 40% of your lot is covered by your house. 20% is covered by your ADU and then the remaining 40% is your landscaping. And I think the the minimum landscape space in most of it is either 20 or 30%. So we have 80 70% to play around with on lot coverage. Am I am I getting that right? Those numbers match up. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I I agree. I think 50% of the square of the

40 was half the height of building. And this is where you start getting into the percentages.

Nothing. But and then so but if we get into Yeah, we have nothing there. We definitely should probably have But like if we have minimum landscape then we know that we have 70% to play with with 30% and 80% to play with 20%. Without a without any type of coverage on my lot I kept a setback I could have put a house as long as I'm 25 ft from the front sevent from the side and three feet from the rear. Yeah. Exactly. need to cover your entire lot other than your setbacks according to this, you know, but if we but we need to amend it.

Yeah. To where you know it's 40 20 and like like since it said 50% of the footprint, you know, that kind of narrows our numbers down 40 20 60, you know, so we know exactly where we're at. And then we can use our open space coverage as yeah what we set that as what I'm getting at right now is our ADU doesn't meet our current Mhm. land development code requirement. when you should have something in this ordinance that we can't cover more than so much percentage of your and how

and if you do cover you know it' be a special use and then you would have to provide a drainage plan. How much do setbacks cover of the total square of your lot? 3 ft. Well, it depends on your primary to your accessories. So it kind of defeat dependent on that too. Yeah. So leave a 10% buffer in there. Okay. I would say yeah at least. Okay. Anything else? And then we can. Have we forgotten anything? Probably. I'm sure we have.

I don't have anything specifically talked all over the place. Quite good. possibility. You know that was we had we still had like three things on the back page, but did you get the washer connection? No, I did not. You bring it up to for the ADU? Yeah. I mean, it's not part of the it's not part of the Colorado plumbing code, but that doesn't mean that the town can't put something into this that makes it more strict. Yeah, that's all I'm thinking is somebody wanted to put a laundromat in not too long ago. Well, it's just something we should consider, I guess. Or

Yeah, cuz there is no And I personally, if I had a ADU, I wouldn't want them bringing their clothes into my house. Yeah, considering though it's probably going to be family members. More likely, but Well, I mean, either way, like if you have an ADU, even if it's family members, you want you want your own separate spaces, right? You want them to be able to do their laundry in their house. You don't want them to have to come to your house to do their to do their laundry. You know, even if it was my mom out back, I'd probably be like, "Hey, yo, I got my space. You got yours." Deal with y

I know when B gets back out of the Air Force, Jeff probably tell him the same thing. Yep. You watch your own clothes. Y well night before he left he was at the house doing his laundry. Davin he comes home on weekends from school does his laundry. Yeah. Like I say most of them would be family but if they're not just reinforces the matter. Yeah. I mean they can have the connections. Don't have to supply a washer but the connections would be there. Okay. Okay. Just something to consider. Yeah. Okay.

It is required in the IPC. It's just not required in the IRC. In the Colorado plumbing code adopts the IRC, the IPC. On residential, we inspect under the IRC. So, we can't make people put Oh. washers in. But if the town had a separate ordinance on an ADU, that could be on their building plans. Yeah. And then we just inspect it that way. Yep. Okay. Okay. I'll add that in there. That was productive. It was. I think we did good. We didn't get too far off track, did we? No. So many tracks. Yeah. There a lot of tracks to cover.

Yep. Yeah. Between the zoning and the use I guess get the what the board thinks and then we can Okay. come back at it again or something. Make it a wall. We need to. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see if they agree with this on the tabs. Is this mine or is this It can be if you want it. I got one. I just don't have three holes. Bible in last time. I don't have a hole puncher that'll go through. Take it all apart. I could either. Shoot it.

We're sighting in today, boys. Okay, we're done and everything good. You good? Okay, time is 9:07. Meeting is a journ. Yeah, my wife's sleeping. She did. She had it, man. Are they going to eat before you go?