City Commission - Regular Meeting

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city commission to order and ask you all to join us as is our practice with a beginning with a moment of silence please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands Our interpreter could come up and introduce herself and her function. That would be great. And while we're doing that, yes. Mr. Clerk, if you could call the roll, please. Commissioner Kilgore? Present.

Commissioner Knight?

Present.

Commissioner Assasi? Present. Commissioner Perdue?

Present.

Commissioner Belchek? Present. Mayor Legrand? Yes.

Good afternoon. My name is Sandra Nickel from the Hispanic Center. I'm an interpreter and I'm here to help you with Spanish to English or English to Spanish, I will faithfully convey everything that is said both ways. Thank you.

That brings us to our first opportunity for public comment on agenda items. So anyone wishing to speak to a specific agenda item, please reference the item and give us your name and you'll have time to speak. I see Mark coming up.

Hello, friends. Mark from Grand Rapids. Committee to hold number one. Resolution authorizing the sister city agreement with Delaporte, Ukraine. There might not be a sister city the way Putin has his way because of the ongoing conflicts in that region. And we all know the orange felon's disdain for the president of Ukraine over there too. So you better think about this. Because if Putin steals Ukraine, there might not be a sister city agreement with Grand Rapids. Thank you.

That brings us on to, pardon? Oh, I'm sorry.

quick. Aiden Wysocki here in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I just want to say I think it's a great idea to add Dnipro, Ukraine as our sister city and I welcome them. Anyone who wants to visit here or anyone who's going to visit in Ukraine, there's a great message from the mayor that he has sent us and I'm really looking forward to learning more about the history in Ukraine and Dnipro.

Thanks. That brings us on to our first item, which is approval of our prior minutes from July 21. I can have a motion. So moved. Support. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed? Motion carries. That brings us to petitions and communications. Mr. Clerk.

Communication received from Bradley Little regarding the City Comptroller's Office. Received and filed. Communication received from Mary Kay Osteich regarding pedestrian safety on Kalamazoo Avenue.

Received and filed.

Communication received from Madison Schaefer regarding excessive noise from the upheaval festival.

Received and filed.

Communication received from Jennifer Townsend urging the City Commission to terminate the use of flock automated license plate readers in the City of Grand Rapids. Received and filed. Communication received from Lucas Leverett regarding bike safety. Received and filed. Communication received from Trevor Tenbrink regarding his resignation from the Michigan Street Corridor Improvement Authority.

Referred to Committee on Appointments.

And communication received from Ali Joffrey regarding his resignation from the Community Relations Committee.

Refer to Committee and Appointments. That brings us to reports of City Officers. Mr. Clerk.

Comptroller's Warrant Report for the period of July 1, 2026 through July 27, 2026 in the amount of $95,166,325.92 in the Monthly Travel Report. Received and filed. And finally, the Treasurer's Report for the period of July 7, 2026 through July 28, 2026. Received and filed.

Thank you. That brings us to our consent agenda. And for those following the meeting, these are items which passed unanimously out of committee and were not pulled for further discussion or any other reason by any member of the commission. Can I have a motion? So moved.

Support.

All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Consent agenda is adopted. There being no items removed from consent and no ordinances, no resolutions, no public hearings, that brings us to our second opportunity for public comment. Anyone wishing to address the commission can come up, give us your name, and have three minutes to express yourself. Mr. Fruits coming up, who lives in Plaza Towers, so you don't have to tell us that.

All right, I won't. I'm not supposed to talk about the amphitheater issues, but I'm going to anyway. When was the last time you were told when you could go to bed? My guess is your parent was the one telling you it was bedtime. By exempting the amphitheater from city noise ordinance, you're now the ones telling me when I can go to sleep. The loud noise coming from the amphitheater is keeping me from going to sleep when I want to, not when the concert is over at 11 o'clock, if I'm lucky. Oh, I almost forgot. The loud noise during afternoon rehearsals. Moving on to some other better issues. This one is safety. It's no longer safe to walk on the sidewalks. Number of unregulated e-bikes and scooters are growing daily. Sooner or later, someone is going to get hurt. While the Lime e-bikes and scooters have speed limits, the ones privately owned do not. They're getting more powerful and faster. Some of them are as fast as a small scooter and are zipping down the sidewalks. I urge you to act sooner rather than later to make sidewalks safe for everyone, including our vulnerable senior citizens. Lastly, over a year ago, I brought up the issue of a short traffic light at Camp House Circle and Pearl Street. I've spoken on this issue numerous times since then. If you're turning west on Camp House Circle, you have approximately 10 seconds to do this. This is barely enough time for one car to proceed after the pedestrians clear the intersection from the hotels at this corner. With the amount of traffic at this intersection, it can take five minutes or more to turn west. I ask that you direct traffic engineering to finally do something about this issue instead of continuing to ignore it.

Buenas tardes. Necesito interpretacion, por favor.

Mi nombre es Hema y vivo en Grand Rapids. My name is Hema and I live in Grand Rapids.

Quiero comenzar yendo atrás en febrero 2025, cuando Movimiento Cosecha and GR Rapid Response to ICE iniciamos una campaña exigiendo que la ciudad de Grand Rapids aprobara seis políticas de santuario que prohibieran la cooperación entre GRPD y ICE. En estos momentos, el alcalde de La Grande se burló de nuestras demandas y mostró visiblemente su reacción en cada vez que los residentes mencionaban las políticas Santuario durante los comentarios públicos en varias reuniones de la Comisión de la Ciudad. Esta es una reacción infantil hacia los residentes de la ciudad que él representa.

I want to begin by going back to February 2025 when Movimiento Cosecha in Grand Rapids' response to ICE started a campaign demanding that the City of Grand Rapids pass six sanctuary policies that would prohibit cooperation between GRPD and ICE. At the time, Mayor Legrand made a mockery of our demands and visibly showed his reaction every time residents mentioned sanctuary policies during public comment at multiple city commission meetings. This was a childish reaction to the residents of the city he represents.

Luego, el 3 de febrero del 2026, Movimiento Cosecha GRP Responds to ICE respondió a una llamada en la que GRPD ayudó a ICE en los arrestos violentos de Byron Martínez. Byron fue sacado a fuerza de su automóvil y su rostro fue presionado contra el banco de nieve, impidiéndole respirar mientras intentaba mostrar la documentación de su proceso de solicitud de asilo pendiente When we commented on these actions, we started the campaign for Free Byron.

Then on February 3, 2026, Movimiento Cosecha GR and GR Rapid Response to ICE responded to a call where GRPD assisted ICE in the violent arrest of Biden Martinez. Byron was dragged out of his car and his face was shoved into a snowbank, preventing him from breathing while he was trying to show his pending asylum paperwork. We documented these actions and started a campaign to free Byron.

Ahora pasemos a junio del 2026. Durante la reunión de la Comisión de la Ciudad, el alcalde Lagrande afirmó que nuestros grupos no estarían dispuestos a entablar una conversación productiva con él. El 24 de junio, Cosecha and GR Rep Responds to ICE enviamos un correo electrónico invitando al alcalde a una reunión pública. Recibimos únicamente una respuesta automática confirmando que la oficina del alcalde había recibido nuestro correo. Estábamos tratando de encontrar la posible fecha para reunirnos. Un mes después, en julio, enviamos un correo electrónico de seguimiento. Hasta el día de hoy, no hemos recibido ninguna respuesta.

Now, let's move to June 2026. During a city commission meeting, Mayor Legrand claimed that our groups would not engage in a productive conversation with him. On June 24, Cosecha and GR Rapid Response to ICE sent an email inviting Mayor Legrand to a public meeting We received only an automatic reply confirming that the mayor's office had received the email we were seeking a possible date for meeting. A month later, in July, we sent a follow-up email to this date. We have received no response.

Así que seamos claros, nosotros nos acercamos, invitamos al alcalde a tener una conversación pública, pedimos transparencia, rendición de cuentas a un diálogo significativo y sin embargo ha habido silencio.

So let's be clear, we reached out, we invited the mayor to have a public conversation. We asked for transparency, accountability, and meaningful dialogue, and yet there has been silence.

Mayor Legrand has been insensitive to the immigrant working community facing ICE violence and has shown disregard for the family separation happening in his city.

Do I not have time to read the rest?

I don't have time to finish, but I want to show you I have pictures of GRPD agents who are cooperating with ICE.

With us. With ice, sorry. With ice. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Matt. I live in Grand Rapids and I'm very concerned about the large number of automatic license plate readers now in the city. These license plate readers are basically citizen surveillance cameras that have been installed without voter approval all over the streets of our city. These cameras are also unconstitutional under the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. According to a recent Supreme Court ruling in the Chattree v. United States case from July of 2026, the use of geofencing is unconstitutional under the Fourth Amendment. And considering the density of these cameras, they do create a geofence in the city of Grand Rapids, making them illegal even under this administration. The majority opinion in this case also cited precedent from a previous case, Carpenter v. United States, stating that society's expectation has been that law enforcement agents and others would not, and indeed in the main simply could not, secretly monitor and catalog every single movement of an individual's car. Every citizen has the right to reasonable expectation of privacy that can't be voided simply because they have to drive to their car to work or to the grocery store. I'm here to ask why this citywide surveillance system was placed upon this community without a democratic vote. Have there been any measurable improvements in the safety of our city since these surveillance cameras were installed? And additionally, do you have so little faith in the police officers under the employ of GRPD? Some of them are here tonight. Do you really feel the need to babysit them with an automated surveillance system? You effectively outsource policing to a shady third party corporation who has no accountability to you or to the people of Grand Rapids. These same license plate readers have already been abused by law enforcement all over the country, including right here in Michigan. Flock Safety and their ilk have allowed unfettered access to these license plate readers across law enforcement agencies, even when the department in question lacks jurisdiction for the search. Please don't continue to be complicit in the unconstitutional surveillance of your constituents. Please take these surveillance systems down as soon as possible. Thank you.

Jeff Smith, I live in the second ward of Grand Rapids. I'm a volunteer organizer with GR Rapid Response to ICE. We have seen in the last several months an increased number of calls to our hotline, ICE presence throughout our community, ICE abductions with our immigrant neighbors, an increase in requests for mutual aid because families that are being separated have monetary needs, have food needs, have transportation needs, etc. Just within the last three weeks, we've witnessed ourselves a couple of ICE abductions. One was at the ESOP office at 545 Michigan. We were offering accompaniment to somebody else who had an appointment and somebody who was already in the building. there for their appointment, their scheduled appointment. I took them and brought them out through a back door, preventing us from being able to intervene. Then last two weeks ago, Tuesday, I also abducted somebody else, brought them to the 517 Ottawa office, processed them because they have a holding tank in that building. And then the GEO group, which runs the detention center in Baldwin, They bring their van through the back garage off of the building at 517. And while we were, a bunch of us who were there, we noticed that there were several GRPD cruisers just sort of parked on that street, that side street, just sort of waiting. And as soon as the GEO group van opened, the garage door opened, the GEO van began coming out, we sort of stood in the alley because we're trying to prevent folks from being abducted, nonviolently. GRPD right away arrived. threatened to arrest us, and then forcibly, physically moved us out of the alley. Some people were knocked over, specifically BIPOC individuals during that incident. When asked at a public meeting recently about this, Chief Trigg said that he received a 911 call about this going on. It seems odd to me that a 911 call usually happens when something's going down. But in this instance, the GRPD was waiting before anything happened So I find it disingenuous that he would make such a claim. But even if he did, it would most likely be ICE that was calling that because there was nobody else there besides us and ICE. So just really frustrating that we've been told since January of 2025 that GRPD is not cooperating with ICE. We're seeing it happen on a regular basis. We have the photos. We have video. We have firsthand accounts of this. This stuff needs to stop, like now.

My name is Carl Estenek. I live in Ward 2 in Creston. I spent the last six years working in cybersecurity, and before that I spent five years as a Persian Farsi linguist in military intelligence. Surveillance and security systems have been a major part of the last decade, more than a decade of my life, more than a third of my entire life, and I've put into practice and exploited and secured security systems like this. From day one, both in the military and in my cybersecurity career, I've heard nothing expressed as emphatically as the importance of ethical responsibility shouldered by anyone in a security role. at the risk of beating a dead spider, quote Uncle Ben, with great power comes great responsibility. Flock safety, quote unquote, does not seem to have been taught this lesson. As just one of many examples, Ben Jordan, a musician who has spent the last few years becoming a security researcher in large part due to his distaste specifically for Flock, helped publish over 60 vulnerabilities on OpenCVE. For those not familiar, OpenCVE is a website where computer vulnerabilities that researchers discover during testing can be publicly disclosed. These vulnerabilities went unaddressed for months, some of which are still in existence today. By exploiting those vulnerabilities, he publicly showed that it is trivially easy to hack and take control of the cameras and to access the information, the logs, that are contained within the systems that they're saved on. He also showed evidence of executives from Flock, not law enforcement, just regular guys, using the cameras to spy on women's yoga classes and little girls' gymnastics classes. And as someone who has spent over a combined decade having the dire importance of ethically wielding the power inherent in any security role, I can confidently say that I have never seen any person or organization as irresponsible as Flock has been. And when the captains of an organization that claims its primary interest is the enforcement of laws for the public safety are caught peeping on lightly clothed women and little girls who have absolutely no awareness that they're being spied on and thereby no ability to consent to such, well, let's just say that those executives should probably have a movie night and watch Spider-Man. And who knows? If they don't have a Disney Plus subscription, maybe they can watch it through somebody's window using a flock camera. And in case my message was not clear enough, please get rid of and ban all flock cameras from Grand Rapids now and for the foreseeable future. Thank you.

Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Steve Bennett, a resident of the Third Ward. Fourth Amendment, somebody talked about earlier regarding automatic license plate readers and case history he brought forward. There might still be some gray area there. And no matter what, it is still data being collected without a warrant. You can talk the plain view and ordinary observation angle of things. But the bottom line here is that we, you, all of us, are being spied on. separating the ice angle I know from hearing each of you speak to that issue that you are opposed to ice involvement in Grand Rapids and it continues to grow as they've already spoken and there will be more examples I'm sure and as the last speaker eloquently expressed the empirical evidence regarding just how screwed up flock cameras are ACLU, using the official statistics that they have, say that up to 10% of all data obtained through automatic license plate readers is inaccurate. They can't read the state. Some things I've read of up to 40%, whatever. There's a lot of it. And this is not good for America, and especially for Grand Rapids. Now, they talked some about the abuse, you know, they're going after an ex or children or the tracking. No evidence that they prevent crime. There is none. And we talked just a few minutes ago, 45 bank robberies were prevented. No, we have no evidence that they prevent crime. None. What they provide is information, lots of data. So you can find out when I went to my own, oh, we went to Family Fair this time, or whatever. Communities all over the United States are separating themselves from automatic license plate readers for these reasons and more. It comes to this, and I've spoken to this issue with each of you, some of you individually. Is this what you want? You are a representative of my community, your community. Do you really want a police state? Thank you for your time.

Mark back. The police state's already here. Don't believe me. That's the guy who got caught by a flat camera in Wisconsin. When he was bringing, when he was, after he purchased some marijuana and CBD products at a dispensary, unfortunately he had to cross the UP to get it. Went back across the state lines and got caught by a flat camera. Now he's looking at interstate commerce charges. As well as marijuana possession, which is still illegal in Wisconsin. That's what happens when you put this stuff up in the air. Bad things could happen. Now, the primaries are over. Now the general elections, it's general election time. The candidates who won have to do one important thing. earn the black vote and for my man Amir Hassan that's what happens when you fall into the clutches of the orange felon MAGA didn't even want you how in the world can you lose to a guy who dropped out of a race that is beyond me you can't make this stuff up And the guy who won supported another guy who finished third. That Republican primary in that district was cartoon carnival at its best. Now it's for you, Hillary Sculpton. You have to earn the black vote. We don't need you at the Amway Grand and all that stuff. Go into the Baxter neighborhood. Go into Mad Ave. Go into Muskegon Heights. Because you said it yourself. You work hard, you play by the rules, you have the opportunity. So practice what you preach. Because as Johnson Jones once said, the road through blue goes through black. So get ready to earn the black vote. Revenge 2026.

Hello, Sharon Hickox, Grand Rapids. I'm not going to pretend to be an eloquent speaker, but I can speak from the heart. I don't know if you notice, I have a stay human pin. And I want you to all please keep that in mind as we think about protecting and supporting our immigrant neighbors and friends. And Mayor Legrand, I don't know why there is this lack of response. They are reaching out to meet to discuss the very need to adopt their six sanctuary policies. Don't hesitate. Please respond immediately. We have this increasing video and photo evidence of collaboration between GRPD and ICE. It is there in front of us. Please take this into account. Stand up. Do something. Please. Adopt the requested six sanctuary policies. Abolish ICE. Stand up for the affected community and our neighbors. The resources that are being spent, we need to put those more toward our affected community. All the money, all the time, all the angst, all the anxiety, this can all be helped. You've got to stand up. for the affected community now and abolish ICE and adopt these six sanctuary policies immediately. Thank you.

Michael Thompson, been in Grand Rapids for over 30 years. Never seen a period like this one. My neighbors are terrified. by police support of ICE and ICE, by leaders who will not listen to them, meet with them, consider them, their status. There was someone picked up when one of those times, and I trust the time that Jeff referred to, another time similar to it. He was married to an American citizen. His papers were in order. He had an appointment to appear for his next thing, and he was picked up. and held it on Ottawa and deported off to Baldwin even though we asked to speak to people inside with his wife who had his papers there. No budging. It doesn't matter what the law says. This is how ICE works. This period of history is getting me to dig back a little bit into American history for myself again. And I know I don't want to be grandiose, we're not in the time of the civil rights movement, except that the gains of the civil rights movement are being eviscerated before our very eyes, and you know it. And yet we get El Saeed voted in when so much money is thrown against him, and he stands. Now I don't pretend to know the future. But the orange buffoon who runs this country is going to only win if people keep throwing money at it. The majority of citizens in this country want to be neighbors to each other, want to care for each other in church and in state, in our neighborhoods. So as her pin says, let's be human together, friends. I've spoken here before, as several of you have before. Some of you nod. I'm grateful. Some of you look rather bored. Maybe this is boring, to listen to all of us talk. I'm almost tempted, but probably should not inflict this on you, to remind you of that anthem of the civil rights. I'll just speak it. We shall overcome. We shall overcome. Deep in my heart, I know that it is true. We shall overcome someday all of this pile of manure. Which side of history do you want to be on? Vote. Your careers matter a whole lot less to your children and your grandchildren than what you do in these times for the most vulnerable. I'm willing to go to jail for that if I get in the way, and I know many of my friends are as well. Love your neighbor. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Lauren. I've been a resident of GR for 35 years at this point. You might remember me as one of the people that Mayor Legrand laughed in the face of when I asked for actual help protecting our neighbors at a meeting earlier this year. I pointed out his failed attempts at creating some peaceful observer program to overstretch rapid response to ICE. and how ridiculous that was, and apparently he found that humorous. It's lovely to see you all again. What's not lovely is needing to be here, continuing to ask for the same thing over and over. Help for our neighbors, protection for our immigrant community members. This week, even though we have kids of our own that are getting back to school, I've been spending my time packing school supplies for children who have had a parent taken right here in our city, off of our streets, right out of Grand Rapids, taken to North Lake. These children are now having to be courageous and start school while they're terrified. We pack groceries every single week for their families. It would be lovely to have you all join our program at some point and come help. For the other children that are too scared to leave, we're making curriculum with retired teachers for them to continue to learn inside their home. Let me repeat that. You have children in your city too terrified to leave their homes and go to school. That is shame. We have to develop curriculum for them so that they can continue their education and try to have one day be somewhat normal while they're wondering if they're ever going to see their parent again and their other parent is scrambling or their aunt or their grandma because both of their parents have been taken. They're scrambling to keep their house afloat. What are you doing about it? Why haven't any of you shown up, commented, or expressed concerns with any of the recent incidences that are all over social media, all over the news, all over everything related to the incidences at 517 Ottawa? A year ago, you all said that you wanted to see it in person, your own eyes. We got pictures, we've had live stream, we've had video, yet nobody shows up. Not one person. You weren't there last year when someone got arrested in a public alley, and you weren't there this year when... 10 people almost got arrested just by being in our city. I'm tired of being up here and asking for support and then hearing you all say in the aftermath we have protections in place that we're asking for. I'm not sure if it was the last meeting or the one before but in the comments afterwards David made a ridiculous analogy about watching, it was like listening to us as watching someone hold a coffee cup while asking you for a coffee cup you've already provided us with. I don't know why that is the analogy you used, but if that's the code phrase, let me get on your level. The coffee cup is filled with ICE agents. The ice is spilling everywhere and ice belongs nowhere. Find me a mug with no ice. GRPD is in full collaboration and it is all of your responsibility to take care of that and provide solutions and protections. The lack of support you're providing regularly is obvious, but here's one you can do. Come on down on Saturday. David, you don't even have to leave your street. On 300 Legrand, we're having a massive multi-house garage sale to support these neighbors that nobody's taking care of. Multiple houses down College Avenue hosting a sale to benefit us. So make sure you stop by. Thanks so much.

Well, you know what I'm going to say. I think you should adopt the six sanctuary policies. My name is Teresa. I live in Grand Rapids for 40 years. I understand that David won't do that. I understand that he says he can't do that. I understand that it's a federal thing and you guys have no responsibility to stand up for our neighbors and say, you'll adopt the six sanctuary policies. We're not asking to be a city, which everybody always says, they don't want to be a sanctuary city. We're asking for these policies that you've already said are in place to be put into place. And then I have one other thing I'm assuming, and I don't want to do that, but I assume you all give to mutual aid, correct? I assume you all see on Grand Rapids Rapid Response Facebook page the many, many flyers that have been put out there asking for aid for our residents. loved ones and neighbors that have been taken by ICE. I'm sure you all support those, right? Because you know who does support those? People that don't have the position that you are in. People that are living from paycheck to paycheck still put in money for our friends and neighbors who have been detained by this illegal Gestapo. and you're allowing it to do it. I hope you go home and start blowing up our mutual aid fund so those people that you don't care that they might be in the process of immigration, they might be going to their ICE appointments, they might be doing the things that you laughed at, David, about Byron doing when he was trying to show his paperwork to your GRPD and they took him away. And he's gone. He was a productive member of our society. And you don't care. You don't care. And if you do care, and you're not going to stand up, you're not going to meet with Kosatia face to face in public, then at least donate some of that money that you make. Thank you.

Hi, I'm Jay Congdon. Donald Trump is a known human trafficker, a convicted fraudster, and the commander-in-chief of genocide at home and abroad. It is inappropriate for anyone who used their vote to endorse human trafficking, fraud, and genocide to work as a law enforcement officer. It is inappropriate for anyone who endorses human trafficking, fraud, and genocide to handle data collected by automatic license plate readers. It is inappropriate for anyone who endorses human trafficking, fraud, and genocide to be responsible for the management of immigration. It is inappropriate for the people of Grand Rapids to tolerate these traitors in our community and operating our infrastructure.

Thank you. Seeing no one else, I will move to comments from my colleagues. Pardon me.

My name is . I live in Roosevelt Park. I stand in solidarity with Movimiento Cosecha and GR Rapid Response to ICE. And I'd like to thank Grand Rapids DSA for inviting me to speak out against Flock's mass stalking network of cameras and microphones today. The following is from 404 Media. Sales employees at Flock have been accessing sensitive cameras in Atlanta to demonstrate the company's surveillance technology to police departments around the country. The cameras accessed have included surveillance tech in a children's gymnastics room, a playground, a school, a Jewish community center, and a pool. End quote. If you saw a stranger taking photos of your child in a leotard or in a bathing suit, would you let them walk away with the camera in one piece? What if they were using those photos as an advertisement to sell millions of other photos of children in bathing suits? Which should the law uphold, my five-year-old's right to her own privacy or the pedophile's property right to his camera? Why is the camera mounted on a pole treated differently than the camera in the stalker's hands? There are two mass stalking cameras between our house and the corner store. That means if my kids and I walk to get a snack, our photos are taken four times. If we drive to Meijer and back, our photos are taken 12 times, 14 photos to visit my parents. Our stalker takes six photos of us every morning as we go to school, and six photos every afternoon as we come home. You and your family are being stalked too. Punch a couple of your common routes into the flock hopper app. If someone took your kid's picture 12 times every single school day and sold the photos, how many days would you allow that to happen before you stop the stalker from walking away with his camera? I recently drove across Ontario, and as I scanned the poles along the road, I felt a psychic weight lift off my shoulders as I realized that for the first time in years, I wasn't being stalked. And as I crossed the bridge back into Michigan, my lifelong home, the weight returned heavier this time. Every single day is made worse by the constant reminder that hundreds of thousands of strangers can stalk anyone I love, and they can stalk anyone you love. They can and do stalk and attack my neighbors, more of whom are Latin American than the rest of the city. Look at the map of these cameras on dfloc.me. There's a hell of a lot more cameras in Wyoming than in East Grand Rapids. These are not just license plate readers. This is a purpose-designed stalking tool. It was designed to let every paying customer stalk anyone, anywhere, at any time. It cannot be regulated. It can only be destroyed. Mayor Legrand, I'm almost finished, so I'd appreciate if you looked at the person speaking instead of your desk. If you can allow a network of 130,000 cameras to stalk everyone you love, everyone of your constituents, and everyone we love, you've sold your humanity. There are no accomplices to stalkers, pedophiles, and fascists. There are only stalkers, pedophiles, and fascists. This is your chance to prove that you aren't that. Cut these cameras down. solidarity with my neighbors and solidarity with the workers in Grand Rapids.

Hello city commissioners. My name is Carl Walker, they them. I live in Ward 1 and I am speaking with you today just to raise concern as a Grand Rapids resident about the presence, use, and misuse of flock cameras in our city. Several other people have touched on this, concerned about lots of different angles with this. But to me as a resident who values safety, community collaboration and respect, I am deeply disturbed by the presence of these cameras that are placed throughout our communities. I understand their intended use and the need for community safety measures, but this approach of privately contracted mass surveillance is unacceptable. and puts many in our community at risk. We have stories cropping up all over the US about how law enforcement officials have misused the data collected by these flock cameras to observe and stalk exes, coworkers, partners, and neighbors. Several people reference children as well. This puts our community at risk. We have all these stories, and I know that here in Grand Rapids, GRPD has already struggled in the past with building community trust and maintaining that trust with community members here in Grand Rapids and it's really not helping us trust anymore just to know that we're being watched daily. Profiles about our vehicles, license plates, our comings and goings are all being compiled under the guise of community safety. And these cameras don't make me feel safe. Like I mentioned, my community is really important to me, and I don't believe that the system of flock cameras is doing near as much good as they are doing harm. Our immigrant friends and neighbors, documented or not, are at an increased risk already for being detained illegally due to the color of their skin, the language spoken in their home, and the culture they practice. And this flock data has already been used and shared in other states to identify individuals who have then been detained by ICE, even if they don't have direct access to that. We've heard, there's GRPD collaboration. Also as a queer and trans person, I'd like to say I see regularly in the news about how we're perceived as a threat just for existing and advocating for our community. It's no secret that people who see us as a threat will use any excuse and means to identify us, keep tabs on us, and enact violence against us. I don't have faith that the system is uncorrupt or well-intentioned enough to prevent this data from being misused in ways that actively put our community members at risk. Whenever I see a flock camera, I don't think, oh good, someone's looking out for me. I immediately have a spike of anxiety and I think about all the data that has been compiled about me and how if someone really wanted to, they could find me where I live, where I work and engage in community and hurt me or any number of my fellow Grand Rapidians. This makes us live in fear more than we already have been under this Trump regime. You have the power in this community and you have a duty to us as constituents just to keep us safe and to hear our concerns. So today I hope you hear me and all these other folks that have expressed fear, concern, and discouragement about these flock cameras and make the decision that is best for our community. Don't cooperate with ICE and get the flock out.

Hello, my name is Duncan Donahue. I'm a resident of the city of Grand Rapids. I want to lift up and echo a lot of the sentiments brought up by other folks here today, folks from Cosecha, Rapid Response, and Grand Rapids DSA. And I want to use my time to focus on just how little control the city of Grand Rapids or the Grand Rapids Police Department has over the data collected by flock cameras. Other speakers have spoken about the issues with the company of Flock itself, but I want to stress just how little control we have in terms of where this data goes to other police departments. So Flock data is shared in networks across the country with other police departments, and unfortunately, from my research at least, I can't find any public record of where our data here from the City of Grand Rapids is being shared across the country. On dfloc.org, however, they've compiled the public transparency portals of the police agencies that do let the public know who they're sharing data with. Only about 580 departments share all the list of agencies that they share their data with. Grand Rapids appears in that list 89 times. So that's about 20% of all agencies nationwide that share data say that they share data specifically with Grand Rapids. Very often those deals are mutual. We don't know, but I think it's very safe to assume that there are at least 1,000 agencies across the country that have access to our license plate readers through these data sharing agreements. I would encourage transparency on that. I want to know where my data is going. And at the same time, I think it's really important to underscore how even if the Grand Rapids Police Department is not cooperating with ICE, it just takes one of those agencies across the country with access to our data to turn that data over to ICE. All right, so it is impossible to make the statement that the police department is not cooperating with ICE while we have a flock contract. If we have a FLOC contract, that data is getting to ICE. And it's being used to give access to our most vulnerable members of our communities to a politicized and racist paramilitary force in our streets. So I think these two issues that folks have been talking about, it's really one and the same. And I would invite the commission to really look at its contract with FLOC, saying that there are safe guardrails in place. There's not really any guardrails here when it comes to flock because if we share that data, it's ending up with the federal government, it's ending up with ICE, and it's making all of us less safe. Thank you.

Hi, I'm Jason. I live in the second ward. I just want to echo everyone else's comments. clock automatic license plate readers. They're really disturbing. They're creepy. Un-American. I mean, people just don't want this. People don't want to be spied on. I've never heard anyone say they want to be spied on. So if you could just take a stand like so many other communities are doing and stop this, that would be awesome. Thanks.

I am Kyle, I'm a Wyoming constituent, and I want to speak against flock. First, not everyone could make it here today, often due to work, so for everyone you see here before you, I want to emphasize that there are many more people that could not speak due to other obligations. I call on you to cancel the city's flock contract, echoing my fellow constituents' calls to take care of your constituents and the petition from Jennifer Townsend on the agenda here. As of yesterday, just so you know, at least 82 municipalities in the US have terminated their flock contracts over concerns of what information is being used as police should investigate people only based on evidence. At the very least, other officers like the Kalamazoo and Columbus offices have already responded publicly with transparent third party audits of flock users. So I request if you do not cancel the city's flock contract, it is in your best interest to look into what that data is being used for. Like my other partners have said, what is that data being shared with and who and for what? With this in mind, I urge you to follow suit. Summarizing audit data will help your constituents better understand what their tax dollars are going towards, and will help highlight data privacy issues, public trust concerns, and aid you in making informed decisions about canceling the city's flock contract. Your constituents clearly want a cancellation, as you see within your agenda, the petition that most here have signed, if not all. Other flock audits have already revealed that many implementations of flock have led to false reports such as the Roseville, California accuracy rate being 29%. As a worker in the city of Grand Rapids, if I had a success rate of 29% or even double that at my work, I would be fired on the spot. And it's not just false reports leading to these potential armed police encounters that cause issues. It's also external agencies having access to the databases, like in 2025 when Michigan's own Ferndale Township audit confirmed only 1% of data requests were done by internal agents, with notable number of requests focusing on immigration and protests like No Kings and others. If that wasn't bad enough, now that flock is gaining more negative attention, some officers are under investigation for using flock cameras for personal use, like how a police officer a few days ago was accused of using flock cameras to track their boyfriend's ex-wife. It's for these reasons of FLOC's inaccurate license plate reading, external agencies gaining unauthorized access, and using FLOC for personal benefit that I urge you to cancel our FLOC partnership or at the least release a comprehensive third-party public audit summary of FLOC's usage and accuracy for all to see. Thank you for your time.

Hello, my name is Phyllis. I live in the first ward. I'm here to talk about my opposition to flat cameras and automatic license plate readers in general. Until maybe six months ago, I didn't know I was being spied on every day. I didn't know that there were going to be 10 cameras taking pictures of me on my way to work, on my way home from work. There's cameras on my way to the grocery store. There's cameras on my way to visit my parents. As a single woman who lives alone, that's terrifying. It's terrifying to know that this data is accessible to people that I don't know. People can find out where I live, where I shop, where I go to work, they can find out all this information about me and I didn't even know about it. When I tell my friends about these things, they're shocked. They're shocked. They didn't consent to that. No one consented to that. And talking about the failure rate, I'd be fired if I had a 10% success rate or a 30% success rate on my job. And I don't understand why we're leaving it in the hands of AI to... accuse people of crimes that they may or may not have committed. I mean, if you ask AI how do I keep the cheese together on my pizza, it'll tell you glue. I urge the City of Grand Rapids to reevaluate its contract with FLOC. I urge the City of Grand Rapids to reevaluate its relationship with automatic license plate readers and surveillance in general. I think that it's important for the privacy and protection of the citizens of Grand Rapids to protect our privacy and to protect our autonomy. Thank you.

I was wrong before. There we go.

I just had to wait until you were going to end it. Now, I just wanted to have some final words and say about the flock cameras that there's one across my house. I oppose any installation of more flock cameras or adopting any more policies with the use of flock cameras. I thought maybe there was a good attempt, a good idea to install them to try it. And the idea was to stop stolen cars. I mean, they're the Kia boys or any, I mean, stolen cars were a really huge issue in our city and across our state, um, specifically on the east side of the state. But these organizations, these crime organizations have gotten smarter. They just take the license plate off the car and you can't find the stolen car if you're reading a license plate that doesn't match the stolen car. So, um, I just would say that they're ineffective. They, they're at 10% effectiveness right now and that's going to drop. Um, They're not doing what we installed or voted for them to do. And I know that maybe it's not within your power to remove them, but you know people and you have connections, you have people you can talk to and raise concern that the organized crime that this was put in to fight, it's adapted and it's not working anymore with Flock. That's all.

Thank you. Seeing no one else, I'll turn to my colleagues. Commissioner Kilgour.

Thank you. Thank you all for coming in the afternoon. I do think we, just as we assess sort of scaling the commission night out, I'm hoping that we can continue to assess if the midday meeting is the best so that neighbors can continue to come out. I wasn't on the commission when that was brought about, or I'm not familiar with how that originated, but I would love to have further conversation on that just as we shifted from a larger commission night out to a smaller in terms of staff time so we were being effective with Tax dollars and staff time. I want to thank everyone who was able to make it out and under my understanding for flock it is something that would be considered a legacy agreement and So that's within our collective bargaining agreement. But I am very aware of how, just like data centers, which is something I've also been outspoken about not supporting here in our region and certainly not in our city, you know, I think it's... incumbent upon us to keep the pulse of who we represent. And so the flock cameras is something that I look forward to hearing addressing. I think the audit was a very, very good feedback. I'll look into and research what other communities are doing that. And I'm hopeful that we can speak more about this in our public safety committee. I know in years past, ShotSpotter, for example, in Detroit was malfunctioning. It was doing sort of facial recognition. And so the city commission at the time, the NAACP here locally, worked really hard to ensure that we have a really good policy in terms of surveillance. So I'm looking forward to putting flock against our surveillance policy and just seeing in a more transparent way with community what we've agreed to. And how that agreement can look moving forward or if we can have it not at all moving forward. So that's something I look forward to and would love maybe feedback from the city manager in terms of how that contract is about. Because once again, I was not here when that. added but we'll certainly look into it and then I'm hoping neighbors can stay around to educate folks on how you can help with I'm familiar with our mutual aid and I have contributed to mutual aid I don't think it's something that in a public avenue I usually speak up about because you shouldn't have to you can just do the right thing But I am a supporter of mutual aid, and I'm proud of the community that continues to lift that up. But in terms of the yard sale, I haven't heard of that, right? It's hard sometimes on social media. You get in your little bubble, and you aren't aware of everything. So I'd love to be educated on that. Yeah, I think the shorter days are still long, but it was very productive. So I'm thankful for my colleagues being productive today and look forward to working with community, locking arms with community on these challenges. And what I'm hopeful when people present things like an audit and show us and educate us on what other communities are doing, it doesn't feel like us versus you. And so that always feels very good to me of we have to partner on these issues. I'm someone who I love looking through policies, I love looking through what other communities are doing. Once again the example of this whole commission supported ensuring that we safeguard our community, our natural resources, terms of zoning with data centers but that was learning from several other communities both here in the state and abroad on what zoning looks like how we can protect our natural resources so it's a learning curve as a new commissioner and certainly want to speak directly to what we have agency over. So that's really what I'm trying to zero in on is, as some of you also noted, it is a federal issue, but what do we have agency over? So these are things that I'm thankful that folks made time in their day to address to us, talk to us, and connect with us on, and I in no way will be dropping it. I'm hoping that we can continue the conversation, be as transparent as we can, and come to a place where we can find resolve and remedy some of the challenges that we're seeing. Because I am seeing them, and I'm seeing them all over our country. And it is quite a time to come together after the election I flipped pancakes at a Unity breakfast, and that was one of my first roles in public service, was a server at IHOP. I think everyone who's elected should have some type of service role. It really shows you how you're supposed to be taking care of the community. And so in that same vein, I'm really in any avenue, wherever you all would like me to show up, I have not gotten an invitation to show up for this specific group. But any other group in community can tell you, if I'm invited, I will make it if I'm here. So invite me, continue to work with me on these issues, and I am thankful for your feedback. Have a good afternoon.

Mr. Bozic? Why? Okay. Thank you. So, yes, I want to say thank you, Commissioner Kilgore, for saying all of that, because I agree. I'm in the same boat with you. I think we need to be pushing these conversations forward, and particularly when it comes to the technology that we're using, the privacy, the autonomy, as someone said, and also to be balancing it with how we can be addressing what's actually needed to be done to keep our community safe in all the various ways that we try to do that. I, too, don't know everything that's going on. You're always welcome to invite me personally. I have an email address. We'd love to hear more about what's going on in the community. And I would like to specifically ask, since we have been doing a lot of discussion at our Public Safety Committee meeting, to be able to move forward with perhaps an audit or a review of our current policy. Why was it grandfathered in the past? And just, you know, take a look at that again when it comes to the automatic license plate readers. And that's where we could begin the conversation. And I would like to get a better understanding of how many, because I do think that sometimes we have cameras that are doing certain jobs out there that are not license plate readers. So what do they look like and where are they and how many? I think that I don't want to make any guesses. I want to know that information. And I have started a conversation, I think, with the city manager. And I like what Commissioner Kilgore said. This is something that we need to continue having a conversation with our City Manager and our Public Safety Committee. So stay tuned because I believe there will be more conversation on that. As far as what's going on in the First Ward right now, I would like to say a special thank you to Roosevelt Park neighborhood because I was out there for Commission Night Out and I also got to go to J-Ban and Swan neighborhoods. and West Grand Neighborhood. I apologize to my Garfield Park and Alger Heights neighbors, I was not able to make it there that night, but Roosevelt Park sent me this really nice book, the history of the Granville Avenue and what's been going on there, how the businesses, buildings, people made a difference in the history. That's a changing community always, and we have a lot of communities like that. Today we talked a bit about the third ward, and I just want to, you know, I want to celebrate your history, and I saw that some of the locations were actually in this neighborhood too, so I just want to say thank you to the Roosevelt Park neighbors for sending me that. And then lastly, I would just say that I was at a housing summit last week with several of my colleagues that was put on by the And it was the first that they had done of this kind. There were developers there. There were policy people there. There were other elected officials from the surrounding West Michigan area, from Muskegon to Kentwood to various other places. And the conversations that are being had around how we can make housing affordable and abundant is something that I look forward to continuing to be a part of.

Commissioner Perdue?

Good afternoon, everyone. So I want to build upon what you all have been talking about with flock cameras. I think that we have an opportunity to be even more aggressive about how we understand and want that technology to be integrated in our community. So maybe 10 years ago, I remember looking a lot into the license plate readers and related to the lack of oversight, the lack of regulation of who can access their data. My has technology changed a ton in the last 10 years, right? And so initially, I think when we think about Flock, Flock is not just a license plate reader. It has additional functionality. It's a connected system. So it's different. And so I think it is a good time to look at, you know, have our rules kept pace with this new age style of technology, connected interwebs, AI, et cetera, et cetera, right? And so I wholeheartedly support and would love to see a third party audit. I will also like to look at some of our, how our surveillance policies do and do not relate, what the company flock, you know, what their data regulation, data oversight data, kind of dismissal retention policies, all of that stuff. Because I think with this issue, it is worth elevating to the level of this body to go into that level of detail. You know, unfortunately, I think around our community, there's just a lot of unhelpful, divisive narrative being slung, right? And I think we know that. But one of the things is really villainizing a lot of the folks who come down and talk about the issues in person with us and really kind of essentially saying they're crazy, they're far, far away, right? And I think that's unfortunate because what I'm really hearing are... Whether I agree with the approach, the tactics, everything that is said, I mean, oftentimes I do not like the delivery. I do not like the strategy. But I see that the intent is how to protect each other, how to protect our privacy, how to protect our future. And we see how quickly technology is changing. And we can't just kind of wait and wait and wait. And so I triple kind of these comments, this interest, and actually ask that we go further, faster in looking into our audit, in looking into kind of our current practices. With that, a few months ago, I also brought up the idea of related to our foreign national policies, which we keep hearing about. Let's audit that to make sure it's also working as intended. At the time, there was not interest or support. And so I'm asking that we could reconsider that. And maybe this is the time. We've done a lot of policy making. I don't think new policy is the solution to every new problem or to continuing problems. is how effective is that policy implemented? Is it being implemented as intended to high quality? And how does it evolve as inputs and outputs and technology in our community evolves? And so I think it's a good time to stop and make sure those things are working as intended. We heard today someone talk about an incident where it does sound like that there was a coordination with GRPD and ICE. And I would like us to look into that as well. If things happen the way that this person said, it sounds like, you know, It sounds like on paper that is by policy, but it's not aligned with the intent of this body and how we want to interact with federal law enforcement on this issue. It's election season, especially the last few months. I think a lot of politicians and a lot of candidates and a lot of leaders have been playing in our faces. And so I want to make sure that the work that we do, I'm not playing in anyone's face. And as a city, we're not playing in people's faces. And we are who we say we are. And when we do something and we are clear about the intent, we make sure that it is done according to that intent. And if it's not, then we take a different direction. So I think this is a really timely conversation. And Commissioner Kilgore, you have been bringing up data centers. I agree with the mayor in that that is not as relevant within our land use right now in terms of technology, but this is. Right? Even more so in many ways. So I think that we need to pursue understanding kind of how license plate readers and flock has evolved, where we are now and has our work, our policies, our oversight, our governance caught up with that. And then also looked into the alleged incidents of cooperation that was stated today. The last thing that I want to quickly touch on is, again, I think I don't want to give people the satisfaction of naming names, but we all see, I think, so much misinformation, so much unfortunate framing of real-life issues and the challenges that people are going through. And one of those points of information is that the mayor has been silent and this body has been silent about the concerns of our homeless community, the folks who are down in despair, the folks who are dealing with addictions. Just yesterday, a group of us met, right? A group of maybe 20 folks of how can we better coordinate and work together across sectors, across departments, across organizations to not just move people around, but to actually meet their needs and try to get to the root of it. And so I want to just be clear with everyone that this work is still happening. And please do not get distracted by the folks who take pleasure in taking clips, framing them horribly, adding in misinformation, adding personal attacks. That's not going to help us move forward. And it's really disappointing to see leaders of this city, leaders of business, leaders of community come out and try to support the framing of this city as going down the drain, as being filled with bad people, as having bad leaders. Why would you do that to a city that you say you love? How is that helping solve these problems? A few years ago I had a one-on-one conversation with this leader and we were talking about the homeless issue downtown. And I said, you know, well, there is this real aspect of people being in despair. And a lot of folks who are in these situations having extreme physical or mental pain, many of them have served our country, many of them have been victims of abuse. And this person said to me, that's not our problem. And I say that is our problem. Those are our neighbors. To move forward as a community, as a society, as a nation, we have to take care of each other. And it's really concerning from the pace I think is being set at the top that more and more we do not want to take care of each other. We want to keep what we have, we want to keep people away, and we want to further divide. So I ask all of you to lead with your humanity, lead with your love of the city, with your love of the nation in our 250th year in the in every single conversation in the ethic of who you are and how you show up and how you do that work and I think the next step for this body is to be who we say we are and we can do that by looking at our policies and making sure that they're working as intended thank you thank you mayor um thank you all for coming out I um

You know, it was a busy day. I can say when we went to the 2 o'clock meeting, I think it was a number of feedback pieces. One of them was from folks who work in the nonprofit world who said, you know, it's hard to kind of be here all day long, like working and then coming back for a meeting. But I will say, I feel like the 2 o'clock meetings are definitely a sprint, and so I like more time, even though some of you may say, come on, let's not do it. I'm always open to a conversation about that. I want to say thank you again to our mobility department. We've had a lot of conversations over the last couple weeks, months about mobility. We also talked about the economy today. We talked in our economic development project team meeting about the really great investments that we're having, but we also talked a little bit about some businesses and individuals who might be experiencing closure of their business or concerns about things like road closures or construction. So what does that response continue to look like? And they're calling it less of a K economy and more of an E economy. We're seeing more distance between various levels of income earners. So thank you all who contributed put together the pieces on all those things today. I have, you know, I think, appreciate your comments, Commissioner, because I think sometimes what feels like it happens is a meeting happens and a topic is brought up and then we're responding. I would say this is not the case. I want that to be known, at least from my perspective. And city manager, you and I, and city clerk, were the ones that were here back in like 22, 21, we were talking about technology like ShotSpotter. And that ended up in a vote where it was a split decision because we were concerned about the surveillance pieces. I was a dissenting vote. And I got, yeah, a lot of people yelled at me and Commissioner Lanier and Commissioner Rappart about that. But I think at that time city manager you heard those concerns from us and from community about how technology is being used So this is not the first time I'm on the record to say that I too And I'll say concerns with the oversight of license plate readers. I have asked In this meeting and in public safety. I was the chair of public safety about how do we continue to look at that surveillance piece? That doesn't mean that we haven't done anything. That means that this is an ongoing and robust conversation. I've also heard from our police department who feel that it is a very useful term, I'm sorry, tool in public safety. We've had, there was a double shooting, thought it was initially two homicides, it was one. That technology is probably gonna aid in figuring out what happened in that scenario. And so this is not me taking a side or not. Honestly, this is me. What did you say? They're not mutually exclusive. They're not mutually exclusive. Thank you, Commissioner. Look at you coming in with the assist. So I want to share a couple of things. Since 23, we've had license plate readers in 2013. The mayor was here before, but I think that was just technology was probably not used as much at that time. In 2015, we adopted our surveillance policy, and in 2022, when I was here, we did adopt the surveillance policy. It was noted by Commissioner Kilgore that the use of LPRs is grandfathered in under the surveillance policy, and that's true. We worked really closely with the NAACP. This was prior to... This was like prior to COVID on issues as it related to drones and that kind of technology. We highlighted work that was being done in California and had some experts that came out and was really positive and then COVID hit. And so then that prevented some of that technology. The use of license plate readers is governed under GRPD's Manual of Policies, and that is regardless of whatever brand is being used. I know we're talking about Flock as a brand. And then last year, in the fall, I think this was right before Ms. Hitchcock left, City Attorney but I know you were actively involved in this work as it related to quite honestly a lot of activity on social media and a concern about how GRPD was using our license plate readers and again because this type of technology was grandfathered in there was not a requirement to There was not a requirement to do an audit of that scenario. However, I would say that was a unanimous decision of that body. And maybe not a decision, but discussion point of like, what can we do? This is now quite honestly becomes a distraction away from, you know, other things that need to occur if there is misinformation. And so thank you, city attorney, and thank you to the police department. think Brandon and OPA was a part of that to really try to understand more because as you said Commissioner this technology is technology overall has changed rapidly right I have the same number that I got in 1998 from from my old boyfriend at a boost mobile or wherever and that's the same number I have today however the technology that's in my hand has changed considerably but what I do know is that and so all of that being known there were a number of things that were identified that could be improved and in late I believe is February 2026 we actually removed that that drop-down option and city manager you correct me if I'm saying anything wrong but remove that drop-down option of that immigration search We do have filters in place to prevent these searches. As mentioned, some federal agencies have access to our data, but not ICE. Those with access to our system, we do limit to prevent searches tied to immigration. And I don't want to be up here and saying, hey, here are all these pieces. I think that review in itself... identified some pieces and I'm grateful for that. I also do know that there is an internal monthly audit that occurs of our flock system that is proactive but I hear the conversation about what does that look like externally. We heard from OPA last month about essentially an audit of our canine policy and what did we find. We found a lot of practices being done but maybe not some things in policy. I'm really putting all your work, Brandon, and the team's work in a very small statement, but that's essentially what we found. We just got a comment today about some things related to use of force and how that might be experienced. Why am I saying this and why am I going on and on and on? Because I too, like my other colleagues up here, like to know what I'm representing and doing. I don't take this lightly. I want to be as informed as I possibly can be And, um, you know, I, I think these are some pieces where the really positive thing, and sometimes it's all in timing is that in later this month, city manager, our, our public safety meeting, we will be doing a review of license plate readers, AKA flat cameras, because this has been an ongoing question. And I think not just from all of us, but I think our, our, the staff that works around public safety, um, including all the different groups that I mentioned, both sworn officers, our city attorney's office. We want to make sure we all know and we all understand. I do have a lot of confidence, and maybe that's because I do have some of these conversations. But what I do want to say is, so then what else do we do? What else can we do? So one of the great things that I'm really happy that we invested in this city is our co-response model as it relates to responses to calls for service in this city. That was something, when I started on commission, that was a desire for many. And it was kind of nuanced, and I think sometimes we take that for granted. I'd love to explore how do we do a co-response model if we are And I know the situations where people are discussing, I'm not going to bring up each one of those and discuss that. But how do we respond when we know, hey, we are responding to a situation where it's a trespass? There's a group of people who say this is coordination. We're saying, hey, we're responding to a trespassing situation. But how do we also bring in resources like we've had with co-response or maybe where there is an active response? you know, arrests that is happening. So I've been trying to process everything that everybody said because this is like a horrible time in our country. When we're sending videos of Just trying to make it when you hear stories of people who hear their father's voice and them being the last words, I can't even imagine it or understand it. And I know that probably each one of you, we've shared a story about people who have been impacted. And we don't always agree up here, and I don't know the circumstances, but I know... You know, I always remain open to meeting with people and I know mayor you and I have talked about this issue at length and I appreciate your your willingness to You know for us to kind of try to understand and where do we fit in? From City Commission as it relates to the federal government as it relates to you know private property and the things that were sworn to do so pardon me if I going on and on but this is something that I care deeply about and I truly believe every single one of you up here cares deeply about and it is so unprecedented and then on top of it we don't know what will happen when we get to this next budget cycle and other resources and things that may or may not be there in the future so I'm gonna stop there thank you so much thank you all for coming out today

Here I am. Thank you for all of the responses from all of my colleagues up here. I think I'm continually always thinking about what we can do and how we can protect each other better. I have a very close friend, childhood friend, whose husband was deported. And I couldn't imagine being in that space thinking about if I was not here and my children could not get to me. I'm watching videos from across the country, seeing people in inhumane conditions and in situations where there's disease and sickness and just deplorable and it's just not right. The advocacy and your heart for wanting to help and being allies is what we all need to continue to do. And then we tie that into people feeling like my privacy and my rights have been taken away from me as far as license plate readers and surveillance. I'm reminded, Commissioner Isasi, when you said that in June, actually, that our own police department found that ATF had utilized some of that information for some immigration. And once they found out, they did do an audit and set that auditing practice in place monthly and cut them off. They cut off, they set certain filters so that people outside of the state or outside of their department cannot search for specific things as it relates to imposing on our neighbors, right? And there's always place for us to check again. Like when we think we have it right, we can always go back and check again because there's never going to be a perfect system. It just isn't. And as this world continues to evolve and it continues to change and we continue to grow and technology takes a forefront on everything that we do, it will continue to morph on us and we have to continue to stay either ahead or right behind to figure out what's going on. I don't know if we'll ever catch up to where technology is going. I just don't. I don't know the answer to that. But I know as people, we can come together and figure out best ways and best practices on how to protect and take care of our neighbors. But I also want to throw this out here and say that it can't be the momentary thing that's happening. Because when things start happening and it's on the forefront of the news and it's right in front of everybody, we jump up, we galvanize, we lock arms, and we say we're going to do this. But what are we doing before these things happen? How can we not be reactionary all the time and be on the forefront of change and watch and see what's going on and start doing those things outside of the incidents? Helping our neighbors outside of the incident. Standing and being allies and voices to support them. before the incident happens. Because we always seem to be behind the ball as opposed to the ones creating the strategies to keep the other team from getting ahead of us. Right? The other part of people addressed about us not being there, being at events and showing up at things that are happening in community. I want to address that because let me tell you something. My day starts really early. And it ends really late. And most people that know me ask me, when do I sleep? And I want to say, you laugh, but it's true, say that about most of the people up here because we're always trying to go and cover and reach. And even when you don't see it, do not believe for one minute that we are not actively out here trying to do what is best for this community. As Commissioner Belshek mentioned the other day, four of us were at this housing summit. trying to hear what the other experts are saying. Not the things that we don't know because we all operate in different spaces, but hear what else is going on in our community. Hear what other people are saying. Hear what the experts are talking about in these spaces so that we are on the forefront of what's going on in our community and we can begin to have these conversations and address it. We were all sitting in a space, well not all of us, No quorum was there. We were sitting in a space where we were talking about what's happening with our veterans migrating from space to space across our city, trying to find something of their own, trying to find where they can land, trying to find where they can be comfortable and healthy and take care of themselves. Do we have the perfect solution? No. Are we trying to bring people to the table so that we can talk and try to figure out what the next step is and how we can work better together? Yes, before the problem gets even worse. Because our world is shifting and changing. Our city is shifting and changing and growing. And unless we are on the forefront of what's happening, instead of reacting after the thing has happened, we are not going to be able to do the right things for the people who need it the most. So I just want us to reflect on that. Don't believe for one minute one person up here wants people to be in situations where they don't have what they need to get through. Where they can't pay their bills or care for their families. Where they wake up and want to be on drugs because that's the only way they can escape the pain that they're dealing with every single day. There's not one person I know that that's their card every morning. And we are working hard to make sure that we're doing the things that impact this community in the best way possible. But also don't think any of us have a crystal ball to know what everything that's happening all the time. And if we don't hear from you, we can only get what we get from each other and from those who are speaking to us. So we still need to hear your voices. Somebody mentioned the yard sale that's going on that's supporting families that are impacted by ice. I only heard about it because I happened to be at another event and somebody told me about it. Closed mouths don't get fed. We'd love to hear from you, but if you don't tell us, we won't know. So I encourage you all to continue to stay engaged, continue to fight for what's right, continue to stand up and use your voice. Don't assume that everybody knows what you're talking about though. Let's have conversation, let's have dialogue, and let's continue to share so we can continue to take care of our neighbors and those who need the love and care of each and every one of us. Thank you.

Usually I'd start off with an election thing, but I'm going to start with the city commission meeting time first. So yes, so a few years ago the charter changed, the commission met weekly, every week, and so the charter changed and said commission needs to meet at least twice a month, and one of those meetings has to be at 7 o'clock p.m. So the years following that, that charter change went to two meetings at 7 o'clock p.m. And then, and then Some of the comedians could be out in the community which we do which are now our Commission nights out one in each Ward During the year a couple years back looking at that Commissioner Sassi is right one of the considerations was nonprofit our nonprofit partners that are working in town and can attend a meeting, be at a public hearing, be involved that way, and then they can, you know, that life work balance. That was one of the options, one of the reasons why. The second reason, one of the second reasons why is in Michigan, it gets really dark early for, so... A good part of our year during the winter months, first of all, the weather's bad, and it gets dark at 5 o'clock in the afternoon. And so we had some comments from some of our senior community saying, we don't want to come out at 7 o'clock at night. It's dark, the weather's bad, we don't want to come out, but we still want to participate. So that was another reason why. And the third reason why is looking at city staff and overtime and various things. That was way down on the list, but that was one of the indications, too, of having staff staying late, coming back also part of that process. So those are the conversations that took place to get to where we are at this time with the 2 o'clock and the 7 o'clock. Trying to provide times that works for everybody. There's never going to be a perfect time for every person because second shift workers couldn't make it during the day, third shift workers are sleeping during both meetings. We can't make it perfect for everyone. So that's the discussion that went into that decision a couple years ago. Most likely I'll be bringing, usually this is the time of year where I'll be bringing the 2027 calendar to you for approval. So we'll be seeing that here in the near future. So I guess apropos conversation. Alright, so that's that one. So elections. Last week we ended the primary election. Grand Rapids had good turnout, basically like we saw around the rest of the state. We had a 30% turnout, which everybody's like, well, that doesn't sound like great, but Two years ago, it was 23%. So we had a seven-point increase. But when we look at actual people voting, we had 12,000 more voters in this election than we did two years ago. Those numbers are closer to looking back at the 2018 when it was an open governor's seat. So when we see an open governor's seat, and this is the first time ever since we had direct election of U.S. Senator that U.S. Senate and governor was open at the same time in the state of Michigan. So I think that was obviously a renewed interest. As far as the ways people voted, about 2,400 voted early during the nine days of early voting. It's about three times higher than August of 2024, so more people are getting used to early voting. About 21,000 absentee voters and about 22,000 to 23,000 that went to the precincts on election day. So just a Just a few more voted before election day than voted on election day. So all those options are being used by voters. And we also had a lot of voters that used what I call the hybrid system of voting absentee but bringing their ballots to the early voting place or their precinct and putting it through the tabulator themselves. At our first meeting in September at Committee of the Whole, I'll be doing an update with the official numbers and then Looking forward to the November election and all the all the details of early voting times Absentee in the like so stay tuned for that for the first meeting in September. Thank you.

I Will First talk about my experience at the election Joel you run a tight ship we were very warm during the resulting because we were at the GRPS University but we worked fast and we worked hard and the volunteers showed up and as predicted our elections were safe, they were secure. We did some emergency modeling in advance with the state to make sure that we were ready for any scenario including worst case scenarios and so I appreciated the Secretary of State and the Attorney General's office for leading the conversation around that and especially appreciate our clerk for the local elections and all the hard work that went into that. To add to Commissioner Yasasi's historical account of the automated license plate readers, and I've had this conversation with many commissioners and city staff I won't take up too much time here. It's well documented in the records, and I'll talk a little bit about how this process went through back in 2012. In September of 2012, then Chief of Police Kevin Belk had a memo to the city manager at the time, Greg Sundstrom, and they were requesting $104,000 to implement automated license plate readers through the police department. That went to the Committee of the Whole, and the technology at the time was described as a technology that scans license plates via a camera system, compares them to known databases, notifies the user of a match immediately, the camera captures a photograph of every plate scanned, the vehicle to which it's attached, and the GPS coordinates for reference points. The police department at that time worked with five different vendors, and then the Committee of the Whole approved that in September of 2012, approximately 14 years ago. That then went to another public decision on a bid list through the fiscal committee and at that time the fiscal committee authorized the appropriation for the automated license plate readers as described to the committee of the whole. So that was in 2012. We have since acquired different versions of that over time, at least in 2020 and then more recently in 2024, with similar transparency and presentation to fiscal committees. As you all know, the surveillance policy went into effect in 2015. So in 2012, when the automated license plate readers were Approved by the committee of the whole and the fiscal committee in the City Commission They have been grandfathered in to the current surveillance policy because of timing when we most recently reviewed this in 2024 We looked at whether or not this was a change in technology or a new technology as it compared to the 2012 approval and the 2020 approval. And the way that the technology was described was that the cameras are designated to capture images of rear license plates aimed in the direction of traffic. The license plate readers are not designed to capture pedestrians, sidewalks, dumpsters, gates, or other areas of non-vehicle traffic or intersections. They capture vehicles driving away from an intersection. They don't point to the middle of an intersection. They should be placed in a place to prevent stop-and-go motion activation in traffic. And so that is essentially the same type of technology that was described in 2012. They capture license plates and vehicle information, not faces or people or pedestrians or sidewalks. And that's what led us to make the determination that this was not a new or different technology that had been being used for the last 14 years. don't have an opinion on the vendor or the possibilities of what can be done with the data. In 2012 we were utilizing databases and sharing GPS coordinates and so this technology as it was presented is apparently the same technology that we were utilizing in 2012 and then again in 2020 it's a different vendor. There are auditing processes and I think that it bears conversation about how are we publicly holding ourselves accountable for the use and can we have more frequent conversations about the use and I think the city manager and the police department will have been working on that or will be working on that so I'll defer to them but I wanted to just kind of hone in on those moments in time when this conversation was had in a public meeting most recently at the fiscal committee in 2024 when the budget amendment came forward it was then put on the consent agenda I believe and open to public comment in 2024 and so I I don't want that process to be confused with some of the very real and very concerning comments that we hear about surveillance images of young children and things like that. Those are horrendous, but in terms of how we have been using and how it's my understanding we are using license plate readers in our city, it is consistent with how we've been using them since 2012.

Thank you, Mayor and Commissioners. Let me thank all the staff that has helped us get to this point of our meeting and preparing for this week, but also those who participated in National Night Out, our public safety departments, police and fire, and all the other supporting departments who were able to make every community gathering with some representation from the city. So thank you all of the who participated in that. I do want to echo my appreciation to the clerk and all the other departments who participated in ensuring that we had a very reliable, safe and fair election process. and dispel any concerns that we don't operate with integrity and transparency, at least in our city. So thank you, city clerk, for ensuring that. I also want to, a real brief, a lot's been said about the flock policy, and I just want to... Note that my intent is to have an item on the public safety agenda at our next meeting, and I've spoken with the police chief about this item, and we also intend to invite representatives from FLOC to be at the meeting so they can speak very directly to the the use of the technology, and also the police department can speak very directly to our policy. I think we've already sufficiently addressed the surveillance policy and why is it written the way it is, but don't mind recapping that. But I do want to remind this group, as we prioritize this conversation, takes away from some of the other conversations we said we intentionally wanted to have and the OPA will highlight some of those other things that are under policy review that we will not necessarily go in depth in that meeting but you've asked us to review the cab policy that is underway you've also asked where are we on the traffic stop study and we had originally or recently had requests for foot pursuit so we'll also frame all of those in the prioritization of our review in the work of the OPA and the police department but that seems to be a interest common interest this evening and again I've already talked to Chief Trigg and his team and they are certainly prepared to have the discussion. Let me also thank our staff for bringing forth the work on micro mobility solutions and our use of e-scooters and bikes, e-bikes, and I heard the comment about the safe use of those on sidewalks and that was one of the aspects of the scope of work that we were considering for whoever the vendor That will be awarded the contract at our next meeting and looking forward to that continued conversation at MobileGR Commission. And then lastly, we had a lot of good discussion today about economic development in our city and ensuring that there's development throughout the city. You saw a lot of the projects. They were not just downtown projects, but a lot of projects. throughout the neighborhoods. Many of them offered housing solutions and not just market rate housing, affordable housing solutions. We constantly, thank you, Commissioner Osasi, like many other urban areas that's experiencing growth, we constantly are challenged with the issues of addressing housing solutions along the spectrum. And for those that are unhoused, I see Ms. Bohatch here. We've had many conversations around our community and how we continue to make progress. The numbers are there, the stats are there, but there's also challenges. As a growing community, everything grows, both our successes but also our challenges. Actually, we're going to have an update at the Public Safety Committee about the personal property ordinances and some of the housing issues and solutions. But given all the conversation that we've had today, that will be for another time. And we will focus on... the public safety conversation around flock as well as some of the other reviews that have been discussed today. And lastly, on a personal note, I want to wish Mr. Cain today is his birthday. And he chose to spend his birthday with us all day. And a little birdie also told me, Mayor, that you have such a similar day this week as well. So happy birthday to you.

Well, Thanks, everyone. And first of all, I want to say thanks to you, all of you who came out and spoke today, and particularly to those of you who were looking for specific things that we could do based on thoughtful analysis. That's really, really invaluable. So we cover a lot of ground today, and I don't know that I've had a meeting since I've been mayor where we've had so much dialogue about policy, which is great. And, you know, to the level that we get our city attorney opining on the fly on things that came up in public comment. I want to... Briefly, Hal, thank you for shouting out the concern about scooters. And for lack of a better word, I am keenly aware there are things that we may as well call them super scooters that are out there. As a matter of fact, I got passed by one going about 30 miles an hour on the sidewalk out in front of City Hall today. I'm keenly aware of this because my mother lives with me, and she is 85, and she almost got run over by a scooter on the sidewalk last year. And she's one hip fracture away from some really bad experiences. So I think I will just show my hand. I think that ultimately we need to update our Regulations on those things and particularly then not the ones we rent out But we simply should say that anything that has a more than a 750 watt motor should under no circumstances be on sidewalks and we should have enhanced penalties for things with larger motors and be in sidewalks and do some enforcement. How we get there, whether that's the will of the whole commission or not, I'm just going to show you my hand on that a little bit. It does concern me. But to the city manager's point, I think we are on the verge of making a great leap forward on our rental policy. Among other things, the vendor who seems to be emerging to the front actually has the sort of radar on those things that cars have now, and so they can detect people and make the machine slow down, which is a really exciting prospect. So lots to be talked about in the mobility space always, but I wanted to acknowledge your thoughtful input on that. The second thing I want to, and again, I'm not going to be able to do justice to the complexity of the issue, and we're not going to stop this conversation, but I really thank the people who came out and talked about FLOC. First of all, as the city manager pointed out, it is in fact scheduled for discussion in Public safety and I think that in general our commitment to having things We can always ask yourself the question if the information is not getting out to the general public Where's the breakdown in that and so communication is half the game so the city attorney made some communications points, but I think that And so I'm not gonna make any specific yes, we're gonna do X, Y, or Z, because that's not appropriate in closing comments, but I do think that the broad question of what are our policies now, what could we do to improve things, what are the concerns, what are the tensions between desirable public outcomes, like preventing or tracking serious crimes, versus the question of increased surveillance. Now, I think that those are real concerns. I don't think any of us want to live in a police state. I think that over surveillance is something that's not going to go away. I mean, I think there's a level of irony we can't all get past on this, which is that a lot of us have speakers in our home, which if they say, if we say, hey, Alexa starts responding to us, but doesn't mean that, well, Alexa wasn't listening before I said those words. A lot of us, about eight people, are tracking my phone in my life right now, so I'm under surveillance from my family members. So we give away a lot of these things, ironically enough, to corporations without thinking about it a lot. But that doesn't mean the government shouldn't think about it. We should think about it, and we should be very, very careful about this. So I spent some time already this week looking at the city's surveillance policy from back in 2015, And the first thing that jumps out at you is like, okay, so flock cameras are grandfathered out of that policy. I would urge those of you who care about this, if you haven't yet, to look at the city surveillance policy, because it's a great place to start, because it asks a lot of the right questions, and it requires a lot of the right reporting on any kind of surveillance. And so it says things like, well, if you're going to surveil, you've got to say why. You have reports on how you're doing it. You've got to have reports out on how long you're caching the data. You've got to have complaint mechanisms for it. There's a protocol for responding. There's lots of really useful, thoughtful stuff that went into that policy. Now, is the policy perfect? I am not going to opine on that subject. But my point is the flock cameras aren't even subject to that policy. So the first question that one might ask and that this body might ask is, okay, so we grandfathered them in 2015, but it's not 2015 anymore. Is it time for us to bring these under the umbrella of our surveillance policy? That is a perfectly legitimate question to ask. And so I want to at least flag that. Now the other thing I want to point out is All of these things, I think, best work through a process. So the first part of the process is, what are we doing? Let's talk about what we're doing. Then the next part is, is there a better model? Was this a bad idea, or is this something that we can craft policy to address and make better? And then take action. Those of you who, particularly the gentleman, I forgot your name, who suggested we did an audit, like that is not incompatible with anything else we're doing right now. And so those kinds of suggestions are gold. Now, we may decide as a community that we don't want flat cameras. be ultimately where this goes. We may decide that we can reasonably contain them. I live with the fact that Amazon has my credit card. They could be hacked. So those of you who came up and talked about the levels of security, that's a whole other discussion, right? If their security is they hired a couple people in Bosnia and paid them five bucks an hour to do two hours worth of cybersecurity, that's probably not adequate. On the other hand, if they've got security that we reasonably are comfortable with, that's another discussion. So the whole question of how good the security is, there are lots of nesting pieces of this puzzle, right? And I want to name that I'm thankful to all of you who came up and identified those different baskets, because they're all things that we should be committed to addressing. So the question of transparency, the question of whether it's vulnerable, the question of how we do this process, the question of what the policy is, the question of whether having this under our current policy would be sufficient, the question of what are the core things that we want in a when we're talking about doing public order. Because this is part of a broader conversation. I mean, we could say anytime any one of us walks down the street and looks at somebody else and calls 911, we've done surveillance. So we want to live in a world where we have public order and we're allowed to flag problems and we're allowed to flag issues and work towards public safety. We just don't want to do that in a way in which the world we've reached a world where we're all living in a fishbowl. And so there's a tension there, and we have to work on where the community sentiment falls and where our desire for public safety intersects with our desire for privacy, because those are both real concerns. And we're not going to eliminate either of those concerns. We're going to have to live in the tension to some extent. The final thing I want to talk about, and there was a number of people who came up again and talked about ICE's presence in the community and in the nation. And Michael said that maybe this is not as dark a time as in the Civil Rights Movement. Look, I was young then. I was young enough to not really be able to form any assessments of what was going on in the Civil Rights Movement. I certainly wasn't even alive during the beginning of it. From my perspective, there are ways in which this looks worse, this moment in our U.S. history. And I would ask those of you who care about this and who care about the real rising risk of totalitarianism and of the real rise of risk of this wave of Othering, which is tied to, I mean, it's tied to, but it's not limited to racism and class divisions and all of the infinite ways in which, you know, at our worst, we can divide ourselves from other members of our community. Please, those of you who care about this, try to resist as best you can the temptation to characterize your allies as enemies. When, as a single example today, I did not at any point in my life laugh about somebody being arrested on Division Street. I'm sure in my face it showed at a meeting a number of times ago. I spent quite a long time working with a group that was trying to model itself in the ice surge in Minnesota. Actions were taken by community members there to try to be present at vulnerable locations. And the group that tried to work on modeling on that work decided to call itself Grand Rapids Peaceful Observers, and they have been going out into potentially vulnerable communities, saying that they're available if they're needed, and they have been present at areas where there has been concern that ice might show up. The training for that organization was specifically based, modeled on training that's been done by a group called the National Lawyers League for years on how to model observation and then accountability for organizations that overstep constitutional bounds, as we've clearly seen agents do on a national level. The individual came up and was openly contemptuous of that group's attempts to do that work. Well, that's what showed on my face. It's hard for me when I am doing a lot – I spend a lot of my life trying to figure out right now how to keep vulnerable people in this community safe, whether they're – people who don't have U.S. passports or there are people who don't have housing or people who don't have the services that they need to do with mental health issues or drug addiction issues. As a matter of fact, shout out to GRPD. They recovered my bike, which was relieved from me after I was out at a at a mental health support organization called the Sheldon Club, a clubhouse down on Sheldon Street. I went and toured the place. It's an amazing support system for folks with mental health challenges. While I was in there, my bike got stolen and GRPD recovered it for me, which was great. I spent a lot of my time trying to figure out how we can better build community, help people who are vulnerable, and actually live in a truly mutually supportive community. I'm not going to stop doing that if people impugn my motives or my character or tell me I lack empathy or I'm evil or whatever. But it certainly makes my life easier if people don't do that to me. I I'm glad for some of the work that Cosecha and Grand Rapids Response to ICE do to elevate concern about ICE's activities in Grand Rapids. And I welcome the engagement of anybody in the community who wants to hold those entities responsible, observe them, call in things. And as a matter of fact, I have, since I've become mayor, spent a fair amount of my time, sometimes up to five to 10 hours a week, following up on reports of activity that someone says happened. So last couple, two weeks ago, I went out and spent a fair amount of time at one of our local hospitals because I got a report that ICE agents were taking people out of hospital beds at this hospital. Well, I went and talked to the security. They hadn't seen anything. I talked to the head of security. They hadn't seen anything. I talked to executives at the hospital. They hadn't seen anything. So as far as I was able to determine, that was an inaccurate report. I go out and do that a lot, but of course, it's not ultimately my job to do that. And so on this most recent incident that the group brought up in front, I guess there was maybe an ICE operation operating out of a building that seemed to have a garage door. And the people who were responding to that were standing in a city alley. then the Grand Rapids police came along and didn't ultimately arrest anybody. Now what I did in that instance was I asked OPA and GRPD to do an investigation to see if there was any violation of policy. So I referred and I would urge all of you who if you think you see violations of city policies which do in fact say that we do not collaborate with ICE on investigations. Do we enforce traffic laws? Yes we do. Do we keep people out of streets so that ambulances and emergency vehicles can get through? Yes, we do. Do we try to keep the public safe in general, including people who work for the federal government? Yes, we do. We try to keep every member of our community safe. Now, every city that I've looked at for policies has policies that allow GRPD to keep ICE agents safe. They are also humans. Now, that's not the same as collaborating in their investigations or their activities. If you think they've collaborated or assisted in investigations or activities, please talk to OPA, talk to GRPD about it. But, There's a difference between us trying to keep our streets safe and cooperating in ICE activities. This idea that there are six demands that are being made to the city, and perhaps I wasn't respectful enough last time, but briefly, those six demands are, number one, that we don't detain people on civil immigration warrants. We don't. We have a policy about that. Number two, that we don't collaborate with ICE. I've already discussed that. We have a policy and it's carefully crafted and it mirrors those of other cities that are called sanctuary cities, but you have to have the ability for the police to enforce public order on the streets in general, as far as I can see. Policies that we don't share personal data. We don't do that. Now, again, this is the flock conversation. I'm not done with that conversation. That's one of those six demands that's cited. And so that's, I think, an area where we can maybe have some real productive progress. Prevent the city from building detention centers. We just don't have any. We stopped having a city jail about 100 years ago. The county detains people. ICE may detain people. The city simply doesn't. Policies that we not have any 287G agreements. We don't. We have three policies which prohibit us doing that. policies that would prevent us entering into agreements with entities that have current contracts with ICE. That's the example I used there is if Gordon Food Service gave ICE agents Coca-Cola and their vending machine, I don't think we would have to stop having a contract with Gordon Food Service to fill our vending machines. I'm not sure that that policy is very well crafted and frankly the leadership and those organizations acknowledge that that policy is not very well crafted. So city manager, we've talked about this, but I would like us to have up on our website some answers to these frequently asked questions, very visibly indirect, thank you, because I do think the public needs to hear this. If we're at a point where people don't understand or aren't aware of the policies we have that are specifically crafted to protect our immigrant neighbors, then we're not doing our job on communication, and we need to do that better. And I hope that we will, and I'm going to urge that we do, and I'm going to work so that we do. The last thing I'll say about this, I guess, is that one of the people said that I was declining to meet with them. Actually, in fact, I've met several groups and several, and I continue to meet with people about this, but specifically the individual who asked for a meeting with me. I've asked my scheduler to schedule a meeting. So I am happy to continue. In fact, I'm not happy to continue. I want to to continue to talk about how we can address what is frankly a national crisis and layers of I don't know what else to say besides evil that I haven't seen at the federal level in my lifetime. I still don't know what to do about the fact that we have a U.S. Supreme Court that says it's okay to detain people on skin color. Nothing since Dred Scott rises to that level of appalling immorality. I just hope that you all remember we're in this together. I didn't vote for Donald Trump. I didn't vote for this administration. I wouldn't put a lot of money than anybody up here did. We didn't ask for this evil. The question is how we can responsibly love our neighbors and continue to support every single human being in this city. every day the best we can. And I'm not gonna say we're not gonna disagree on specifically how to do it. I'm not gonna say that we're always going to get it right. But what I do ask you to do is to try to do it in charity. and with an acknowledgement of the good faith that everyone on this commission has on this issue. This is something we all care about deeply. We are not trying to do evil. We are trying to do good. And I don't think that anybody who is agitating and asking us to do things is doing evil or trying to do evil. And I have never said that and I never will. I don't think that anybody protesting or agitating against the forces of darkness is misguided or wasting their time by agitating against the forces of darkness. But how we do it matters so much. You can't fight darkness with more darkness. You can't fight hate with more hate. You can't fight lack of charity with lack of charity. It's because we'll lose our souls in the process. I don't want to lose our souls. I want us to be able to be an example. I want us to be a national model on how we can continue to work lovingly and compassionately together. And it can be frustrating. It can be hard. We can all snap. We can all fall short. So please, let's continue to try to give each other grace and charity. And let's try to work thoughtfully on... the best policies we can without imputing malice if ultimately we disagree on what are actually fairly small application points, I think almost always, in a general overarching conviction set and a general overarching value set, which is we want to live in a community that loves supports and where everyone can flourish. So thank you all. One last thing I'm going to say and you can all leave now but this is almost a public service announcement. But I want to read something that I prepared and this is about city business now so I'm not talking about the federal government anymore and I'm not talking about surveillance anymore. This is very much a city issue. Today at fiscal, an issue came up that I'd like to explain and address as to how our government operates. The elected city commission sets the budget and appropriate city funds. The departments, together with city manager and executive staff, verify the amounts of those expenditures. The comptroller has the non-discretionary administrative task of signing the payment instrument to issue the payment. This process is governed by state law, city charter, and a complex set of city codes. In other areas of our charter, I am mandated to sign certain documents. I do it every week, such as contracts and legal agreements. I don't get to decide whether or not to sign those or not. I have to abide by the will of the majority of the commission. City Charter and Code also mandate that the City Manager sign other documents and implement legislative decisions and policy set by this body. Once this body, the City Commission, has acted, the distinction is important. No individual in the organization has the authority to veto or supersede a decision approved by a majority of the City Commission by withholding signatures or any other means. Where the city commission has authorized an agreement or an obligation, the administrative steps necessary to carry out that decision are ministerial, not an opportunity to reconsider or overwrite the commission's actions. Our internal processes and individual signatories exist to implement the lawful decisions of the city, not to substitute individual judgment for the will of the elected body. The city also complies with internal audits and external audits to assure transparency and accountability. As Mayor, I take the responsibility for ensuring that this organization fulfills its obligations very seriously. When the City Commission has lawfully authorized an expenditure and the City has encouraged an obligation, I expect the City Manager, his staff, to ensure that our bills are paid and that no individual action or inaction interferes with the City meeting these obligations. That's an important principle of accountable government. The City Commission makes the decisions entrusted to it, and everyone else has the responsibility of carrying them out. With that, thank you again all for coming and for your comments.