Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Good evening and call the August 21st, 2025  meeting of the planning board to order. Um,   we've had a couple of issues arise this  evening, including an accident on route   from uh our consultants traveling north.  They'll be here, but a little bit late. So,   uh, if we could get a motion to switch the master  plan update to number two on the agenda and have   the capital improvements plan discussion first.  So, move. Second. Any discussion? Those in favor?   I Peter, if you would help us with this. Yeah.  Good evening. Peter Britz, director of planning   and sustainability. Mr. Chair, members of the  planning board. So, I'm here tonight to talk   about the capital improvement plan. If you can  bring up the slideshow here, I'll go through it. [Applause] All right. So, the CIP um we're we're here  tonight to kick it off. Uh the planning board,   the excuse me, the city council kicked  it off earlier this week on Monday and   um this is the 27 to 32 CIP. So, next slide. The six CIP is a six-year financial  and infrastructural infrastructure   planning tool to identify capital  needs plan for funding of capital   projects which include a big piece of  municipal infrastructure. Next slide. So what qualifies for a capital improvement  item? typically infrastructure projects,  

planning and design projects, purchases for large  equipment and vehicles and then and vehicles that   have a greater than a 10-year lifespan and land  acquisition projects. Next slide. How are the CIP   projects evaluated? They're they have to fulfill a  core function. We look for a financial benefit to   the city and determine does the project address a  community plan or service improvement. Next slide. Funding local capital outlay. So local capital  outlay or or cash from the general fund. The   city's target is to invest not more than 2% of  a prior year's general fund budget. In 2026,   they kept it down to 1.08% 08% of capital outlay  going into the CIP request. Next slide. The other   way funding is used or local funding options  is bonding with annual payments of principle   and interest referred to as debt service. The  target for debt service is to remain below   10% of the annual budget. In FY26, the net debt  service was equal to 7.9% of the annual budget.   You'll see here on outy years going up  and next slide I'll talk a little bit   more about that. This slide shows that we do  plan ahead with our capital improvement plan.   Looking ahead at our projection is to keep  the net debt service as I said below 10%.   And while it looks like we're going to exceed  that 10% when you look out in the future,   we typically as we plan push some projects out to  further timelines and that bumps up that number in   future years and then the numbers fall off because  we don't know all the projects that are going to   be coming up in years in years ahead of those. So  um this is the typical trajectory and that 10% is  

something that we we keep track of. Next slide.  So if you look at five fiscal years FY20 to FY25,   we can see that the city has invested over $255  million in just over 500 projects. And then the   graph shows the breakdown between general  government including schools and then water   and sewer. Next slide. Thank you. Uh I won't  go through all these but to explain the steps   for the board. First the CIP includes six years  of capital planning planning. It is recommended   by the planning board to the city council and  adopted by the city council in December. Second,   the first year of the CIP plans as it is finalized  in December and it becomes part of the proposed   budget that the council considers through the  spring and votes in June. And then finally,   any long-term borrowing comes back for another  review by the council when they consider bonding   authorization. Next slide. So, a little bit  about the timeline. Um, for this year's CIP,   the t departments will finalize their  recommendations by September 26. The   planning board will have a joint work session  with the council on November 12th. And hopefully,   the planning board will then recommend a CIP  to the council on November 20th. Typically,   the planning board has a CIP subcommittee and  maybe we can talk about after. Sure, I have one   more slide to go through, but um go to the next  slide and we'll talk about the citizen requests.   So, as departments are putting together now, we're  also asking for citizen requests to be submitted   no later than December 19th. Those citizen  requests and requests from boards in the in   the city all get compiled and um they get reviewed  on October 9th um at 6 PM in conference room A. And so that's that's it for the presentation,  but I did want to bring up that that typically  

there's a CIP subcommittee from the planning  board and um I'll take questions now if there's   any questions about the the process. The board  members understand what the capital improvements   plan is. I we've got two things tonight that  the capital improvements plan and then also   discussion with the consultants about the  master plan. Both of those have the word   plan in them and we are the planning  board and so we have a role in each.   Peter did explain it, but it was pretty  fast. So, if you have any questions, yes, Bill, uh, thank you very much.  I, uh, this is a good process and, uh,   it's a good document. Um, I'm I'm hoping this  is an appropriate place to talk about a couple   substantive things that might be in the plan  that were not last time. Uh let me give it a   shot and if if the reality is that this isn't a  place to talk about it, we can do otherwise. But   uh one is one that the city uh council a year  ago or so had housing as a top priority and in   the $100 million or whatever is in the capital  improvement plan, there was nothing for housing.   Uh so the the question to me was you know if that  really is a priority uh somehow it should show up   either as in building infrastructure for housing  or uh donating land for housing or subsidizing   in some other fashion for housing. Uh and it  it wasn't the case. So, it is does the housing   committee uh have a agenda item relative to the  capital improvement plan so they can uh work with   you to identify potential ways if that really is  the city's top priority that some funds might be  

allocated over the next six years to housing?  Well, the housing committee would is advisory,   so they could make a recommendation along those  lines. Um, there is a housing trust fund and and   that that has funds in it, but that could be one  avenue they could explore is is adding more funds   to the housing trust fund to facilitate more  workforce or below market rate housing. Um,   it really is up to the different committees  and boards and ultimately the city council   um to put actual dollars into housing  beyond what the housing trust fund has.   Um, so I I guess it's not the wrong place to  it's not the wrong place to start talking about   it for sure. Is there So that'll be they'll be  on your dance card for groups that you talk to.   Different groups will probably bring it up given  the the interest in housing. Okay. And we we will   be discussing that stuff, Bill. So, uh, since  the our other consultant hasn't arrived yet,   I thought why not talk about a little bit, but  it's a good placeholder, you know, for tonight   to remember to talk about it. Uh, tonight's about  process and what the capital improvements plan   process actually is. And that's what Peter  was, I think, intending to describe for us,   the details of what gets in it. That's that's  the next step what that you're talking about.   And there will be a subcommittee of this  group that will participate in that. Yes. I just want to make sure because we talk about  subgroups for the CIP and I don't want anyone   to get confused because you'll hear there's a  subgroup of city counselors that meet as well,   but we meet with a specific per purpose of  looking at all of the resident requests that   come in and trying to decide which ones fit into  the CIP or maybe fit into a different process. So,   it has nothing to do with what the  planning board does as a subgroup,   but I just didn't want people to get  confused when they hear that. That's helpful.

And that would be a similar place for a  question on parking. Any citizen request   that gets submitted by September 19th goes into  that pool and we talk about it. And there is   also a at the end a time for public comment as  well. We discuss it with staff at that point   in in a public meeting and then take public  comment from any residents that want to talk   about their part. Jumping ahead a little bit  in the agenda, I did I do have a placeholder.   I've gotten a list of issues from the housing  committee from councelor Taber and also as I'm   sure many of you know the legislature has  changed some of the statutory authority on   things that relate to parking and other things  that we the legal department is looking into. we   we will be looking at zoning amendments to bring  our ordinance into conformance with those. So,   there's a few things um that are coming  up and really talk that at the end later   on. That was my plan. Um I not sure if uh if  we've heard any any other questions for Peter. Anybody who wants to be on the uh  capital improvement subcommittee,   let Peter know. And then then I'll know and we'll  this Peter not that Peter Peter or me either one.   Well either one I guess let a Peter know. Yeah  Peter. Yeah. So if there's no more questions.   Yeah. It's just the kickoff of the CIP process.  It's a planning document that we're starting.   So feel free to reach out to me with questions  along the way. Thank you very much, Peter. Sure. Just Matt, have you heard anything from No,  but just get rolling if that's all right. Okay. So, if you just introduce yourself because uh  this first time I' I've met you face to face   this evening and I don't think any of the board  members maybe they have but I don't think they  

have met you before. Yeah. I'm uh Matthew Latell.  I'm a principal at UTIL. We were engaged to   um conduct the comprehensive master plan for the  city. Um, uh, associate principal Zoe Mueller, who   is managing this effort, will arrive any minute.  Um, so we've decided that, uh, uh, I'll just get   this show rolling, and I'm sure she'll be here by  the time we have discussion and questions. Um, I,   our intention tonight is to give you u an overview  of what this plan is about, how the process   uh, uh, is going to work. Um we are not we're  still in what we call we're sort of terminating   the learning phase of this project. We are not  at a stage where we're beginning to formulate   uh opinions or plans. Um but we are uh have been  doing our homework and uh are beginning to launch   um a more sort of public engagement campaign.  So this meeting I think is intended to give you   a sense of what our scope is, where we are  in our process and to answer any questions   and I think particularly important for us to  hear any um kind of initial concerns that you   might have or areas that you feel that would be  important for us to focus on. Um next slide. So   I've introduced myself. Zoe will be here  any moment. Um and Pete Roby uh has been   very active in this plan. He's our uh sort of  acting as a deputy project manager. He brings   um happily probably 15 years in um transportation  uh planning and street design. So he brings that   sort of extra perspective and he's been uh very  instrumental in working on developing the sort   of mapping that that we're using to analyze uh  the city. So um that's us. Um I'll talk a little  

bit about the purpose of the plan. Um then a  little bit about the process itself and then   um I hope we can leave some time for discussion  and and questions. Uh next slide. Um next slide.   Uh uh so uh Util is a multi-disiplinary planning  and architecture firm. We are um the the prime   uh on this contract. Uh but we have an excellent  team of subconultants u for various specialties.   Nelson Nygard is advising on transportation. Um  they are fairly nationally recognized firm that   does that kind of work. Landwise has been advising  on economic development and analysis. Um and niche   uh is advising on uh infrastructural engineering  kinds of of questions. Um Anne Weidman is our   representative on the ground. Um uh in conjunction  with the planning department, we had held a sort   of a place and some scope for someone who is  actually on the ground engaged to act as a kind of   ambassador and facilitator um of uh of some of our  engagement and some of their work and also acts   in a kind of advisory capacity. And Zoe's here. Uh  she's survived a crash that Welcome Zoe. Somewhere   in front of her plant her uh her drive. U we  have offices in Boston, Providence, Burlington,   Vermont. Uh sort of an office in Portland and I  hope someday in in Portsmith. So um next slide.   Um we've done a number of comprehensive plans um  uh mostly in Massachusetts but uh more recently   more and more in New Hampshire. Um some are same,  some are quite different. Uh it really depends on  

the planning that has preceded the plan, the the  objectives of the of the municipality, the size   of the city. Um, Portsmith is already shaping up  to be, I would say, a relatively unique master   plan given the the context. Um, and some of the  the planning that's already been done here. Um,   but we've uh recently completed a master plan  for Salem. Um, we did a master plan for Nasha,   for instance. Um, and several municipalities in in  Massachusetts of very different sizes, obviously,   between Boston and Andover, for instance. Uh,  next slide please. Um, our practice areas span   from high level policy planning all the way down  to architecture, interiors and and graphic design.   Um, this gives us a kind of a deep bench  if you will to address some of the things   that might come up in a comprehensive plan.  Um, in the urban design and planning arena,   uh, as I mentioned, comprehensive planning is a  core part of our kind of work that we do. Uh we   do housing and transportation policy strategy.  We do a lot of work around zoning. So we're very   literate in how zoning um uh is implemented both  from a kind of municipality side but also we see   things through the lens of development as well  because we do a lot of architectural work on that   side. Um and then we do a lot of different plans  at different scales. Sometimes it's a corridor,   sometimes it's a neighborhood. Um so uh and and  these projects usually combine two sets of skill   sets. One is planner planners who think more about  policy land use more generally um analytics um all   the way to sort of urban design which is really  just designers that are thinking more at the the   the block scale or the corridor scale and we  anticipate all of these come together for this  

this effort. Um next slide please. Um, I mentioned  Anne Weidman, uh, who is our fantastic community   organizer. Um, we didn't know we would have  Anne before we were awarded this project, but,   um, it's been a really a perfect fit. Uh, you  probably know her from somewhere because she's   deeply involved in all sorts of organizations  and efforts, um, in the city. Um, she really,   uh, has her ear to the ground. her her role really  is to engage, listen, um be an ambassador, if you   will. Um be able to show up at the farmers market  to hand out questionnaires, to let people know,   um what's going on with the plan, to meet people  where they are, if you will. Um in addition,   um she will have some sort of what we call  quantitative goals is, um uh obtaining a certain   number of specific meetings, one-on- ones with  people. um meeting with with groups, individuals   um and really just sort of spreading the word. Uh  next slide, please. Okay, so what a comprehensive   plan is and it isn't. Um next slide, please. Um  there's two aspects to the comprehensive plan. One   is the is the the process itself and then there's  the sort of the final plan. Um the process itself   is really about developing uh and identifying and  sort of articulating what the shared values of the   city and the community are. Um identifying a kind  of strategic vision for what uh we want the city   to be in the future. Um and then a framework for  how how we how we get there. Um how we implement   these things. Um so the final plan typically will  include what we call a growth framework which  

is also growth and preservation. Um if zoning is  one of the tools in the toolkit to get us there,   it may uh provide recommendations um about  how that can happen. Um capital investment   priorities. Um we just heard about the CIP,  so we will be uh ideally aligning with those   efforts. Um policy program priorities. Um and then  a kind of framework, what we call a framework for   more detailed district and topic specific plans.  So a comprehensive plan builds off of previous   and current other planning processes, but it also  let's say gives birth to other planning processes   that um are identified as necessary through the  comprehensive plan. Um in other words, areas where   oh that that's important. um we need to study that  further to get to where we need to be. Um so what   is a comprehensive plan not? It is not a zoning  rewrite or the writing of the the rewriting of the   zoning. Um it is not super detailed u topic areas  or place specific kinds of things. Um and it's not   uh a kind of super detailed map of of where  resources get spent or where they don't. I think   the best comprehensive plans um identify and sort  of collate all the efforts and and positive trends   that are sort of underway and identifies where  the city wants to go generally based on feedback   from the community and um the experts like you  and then tries to identify cross let's call it   crossd disciplinary or crosstopic strategies for  implementation that might include, for instance,   new land use policies that are aligned with um  infrastructure or roadway improvements, right?  

Or or other kinds of things. The more layers  you get um uh around these these initiatives,   the more effective it can be. And I think that's  one of the important roles of a comprehensive plan   is to find those those sweet spots if you will  where um a lot of ongoing initiatives can really   come together and get sort of supercharged. Uh  next slide please. Um so we had been studying uh   all the uh considerable planning efforts that that  have uh taken place recently. Um we're sort of   starting a little bit with the Portsmith 2025 plan  uh which uh identified sort of uh big themes about   vibrancy, authenticity, diversity, connectivity,  and resilience. Um the um that plan was paired   with this sort of um neighborhood character  diagram that you see on the right um that   distinguishes uh different place types within the  city. um urban core corridors, urban neighborhoods   and so forth and suburban neighborhoods. Um  I think what um you can expect to see from us   moving forward as we deepen our analysis is doing  that kind of analysis but maybe at a much more   fine grain. Um there's been a lot of development  uh particularly residential development that's   taken place since this plan was finished. And so  there's a very different landscape out there that   um and as there are fewer and fewer, you know,  potential development areas. Um my hunch is that   um our sort of mapping of priorities within the  city uh may begin to get a little bit more nuanced   and and more specific. Uh next slide. Uh you've  been doing a lot of planning. Um so uh this is um  

uh really really useful to us. Um the idea  is we don't start from scratch. Um none of   these will go to waste as I mentioned before.  Uh the question to us now is how do we distill   these priorities that were identified in  these plans and the and the actions that   were identified and find common ground between  them or find those places where they uh really   align with new priorities and where those those  plans can come together where arts and culture   uh priorities might align for instance with uh a  pedestrian plan update for instance and then um   possibly also in sustainability. and resilience.  So this is really what puts the comprehensive in   a comprehensive plan is um how those layers  actually work together. Uh next slide please. So, uh, as I just mentioned, um, really  this master plan is going to be about,   um, filling the gaps between those plans and  and providing, if you will, the sort of glue.   Um the little diagram um on the on the lower right  there is a kind of ideagram of um what is sort of   emerging now which is an image of your downtown is  actually uh quite evolved quite stable. Uh there's   I think unanimous consensus about generally sort  of preserving its character and its vibrancy.   And I think um as we've been speaking with  people and taking the tours um that um one   theme that keeps coming up is how that sort of um  core begins to connect to other centers and other   corridors that may not sort of share some some of  the same historic attributes or walkability or or   things of that nature. Um and those sort of themes  work their way through looking specifically at a  

few topic areas listed here. um housing. How do  we define what the housing needs are? Um there's   been a lot of housing production. Has it been  for everyone? Are there uh ways of of supplying   more diverse housing if that's desirable? Um the  economy um the economy uh relative to you know   many municipalities is quite vibrant. Um there's  not a lot of retail vacancy for instance. Um so   uh what is it the kind of um does the city want  to diversify its employment base? Uh does it want   to affect the number of workers that live here or  that don't live here? So there's um a whole sort   of area of exploration that we want to go into  there. And then some of this manifests in what   we call development patterns in urban form. So, if  Portsmith uh wants to and needs to physically grow   in some places, how does that happen? Where are  the appropriate places? And how can that growth or   development or change um sort of align with other  priorities that um have sort of a knock-on effect?   Um next slide. Um I'll talk a little bit about the  process. Um if you go to the next slide. Um so who   was guiding the plan? Uh we work very closely with  the the Peters here in the planning department. Um   they're sort of day-to-day uh sort of adviserss  project you know project management. Um we check   in on a regular basis. There is a master plan sort  of advisory group um which is uh made up of sort   of a cross-section of community members who um  are offering different perspectives on different  

priorities um people that care about the the city.  Um and then uh there's there's this board as well.   So we intend to be checking in um seeking your  guidance. Um and I think there's there's even some   overlap between the master plan advisory group and  some of the planning board as well. So um those   are our sort of high level advisors. Um if you  go to the next slide um it explains a little bit   where we are. So um we've got basically four four  phases. Learning, visioning, developing the plan   and then the documentation. um we are sort of uh  moving out of learning and moving into visioning.   So this is why it was probably a very good time  to speak with you. Um as the the the plan of the   plan is taking shape. Um our next phase will be  moving more into sort of public engagement. Um   that will form the sort of basis of formulating  a vision uh if you will for the city. And that's   both a strategic vision. It's a physical vision.  Uh it's an aspirational vision. Um but it also   um begins to align with sort of some of our deeper  analysis that we've already begun on on land use   patterns um the transportation network um economic  development issues as well. Um uh after that point   we move into developing the plan which is  really about refining u the priorities. um   uh understanding um how we structure the plan  in a way that makes it kind of actionable. Then   finally, there's a kind of plan production  and approval and documentation. Um where   there's a lot of iteration about um deciding what  priorities are and how things should be expressed.

Uh next slide, please. Uh we had uh a couple of  weeks ago um an excellent site visit. Uh I think   all of our subconultants were also represented.  We spent a good better part of a day uh looking   through some of the recent um neighborhoods  where a lot of developments been taking place. We   uh had a chance to engage with a lot of people  particularly um in your arts and culture uh   sector as well. Um, uh, it was hugely instructive,  not just sort of actually taking the time to slow   down and look very carefully at what we're seeing,  but to, um, speak with people on the ground, uh,   to have those conversations, um, about, you know,  there's a story behind every single building. And,   uh, very important to understand, um, not just  what the fabric is, but how it how it got here.   Um uh there was also a sort of a follow-up uh  event at the farmers market. So this is a typical   way that that we keep engaging is to keep showing  up where other people might be for other reasons,   make them aware of this process and get them um  involved. Uh next slide. Uh we are one of the the   strategies that we're doing is uh distributing  what we call comment cards. Um, so an uh has   been very busy attending a lot of events. Um,  she's been handing out comment cards. Um, it's a   way of boosting um the visibility of the project.  Um, creating a sense of engagement. Some of these   photos you see are from our um, our Worcester  comprehensive plan. Um, lower right image is our   community organizer that we had there. Um but it's  it's kind of creating a sense of um let's call it  

healthy virality about the news about the plan and  creating buzz and spreading the word both visually   and graphically. Um there are online places for  people to submit comments that will be sort of   ongoing. Um and um I think in person places for  instance at the community campus or library or   city hall um um as well uh next slide. Um so uh  I don't know Zoe do you want to talk about this? Hi there everyone. Sorry I was late. Um appreciate  that you gave us a little bit of grace on that.   Um I'm Zoe Mueller. I'm the project manager  supporting uh Matthew on the project. Um and   I can give you just a sense of what this tool is.  It's something that's active for us right now.   It's intended to be a complement to the visioning  comment cards which are more of a a physical tool   that helps with really in-person interactions and  as kind of a light touch thing that helps people   get interested in the plan. Um, this kind of goes  a little deeper and helps us to bring people in   that are maybe more active online or aren't at as  many of those events and helps get on their radar   and also create a conversation and actually some  interaction between people online, which is really   valuable because that's something we always  appreciate about our inerson interaction. So,   we look for ways to recreate that online. Um,  so this is a tool that's called Polus. Um,   and what's really special about it is that it um,  it really creates a conversation which people are   inputting their own statements, their own  opinions into it. And it's helping us um,   using algorithms, using machine learning to group  um, patterns in what people are bringing up,   what people are sharing, what their opinions are  on key topics that are really active conversations   in the community. Um, and this is by no means  something that dictates the direction of the plan,   but it's a really useful tool for us to just  see what the conversation is like um, and where  

there may be some areas of potential consensus,  things that across a lot of different, you know,   um, opinion groups that people generally  agree on. Like for instance, in Portsouth,   I imagine that the beloved downtown is going  to come in strong as something that everybody   has a tie to and really has a lot of passion  for and is part of why they're here. So those   kinds of things are really helpful for us to see  it coming through and and check that the online   and the inerson is kind of syncing up. Um the  other thing that you're kind of so that's on the   left that this sort of what looks like kind of a  tadpole is showing you visually on the left where   there's that big grouping. Um this is an example  in Worcester where all those groupings on the left   those are statements where people had very similar  reactions. So those are areas of consensus. So you   can one of the things that's powerful about this  once people understand the diagram is it shows we   agree on a lot there's a lot of things that we're  we feel good about and we can move forward with   and there are some things we need to keep talking  about. So that's what that tail is the things that   are kind of the thin out to the right on that um  that sort of dot diagram are showing places where   there are statements that are more controversial  that are sparking more of a um a dissonance or   or frustration in people's opinions and and sort  of relationships to a topic. Um and then on the   right those kind of you know two bubble diagrams  are showing um groups of opinions. So groups of   reactions to a topic. Um and that helps us to  understand are there kind of um specific uh you   know things that are animating a reaction that are  like part of the the um sort of what undergurs uh   of something that people are saying frequently is  what's animating it. So this this will all kind of   begin to make sense as you see what conversations  come through in Portsouth. And right now we have   260 responses on this and we hope to get closer to  500 a thousand something like that as it kind of   picks up pace and we switch gears from the heavy  in-person work over the summer um to more online   work as people come back from their vacations or  fewer events um and kind of try and capture people  

um on their computers. Um, so if you want to go to  the next slide, um, this is again just an example.   It will be different for Portsmith, but these are  an example of some of the top 10 things that came   up in the Worcester um, uh, version of this survey  that just helped us to see what are some of the   things that people wanted to talk about in the  master plan and we could then carry them forward.   Um, some are more relevant than others. Typically  a master plan is not really about uh trash,   but that was something that people wanted to talk  about and it actually was a good entry point for   us to talk about the pedestrian experience and  that was really what people were talking about   when they talked about trash. Um so anyways, this  is um a great tool for us. It's been so useful in   in probably I think like eight different planning  processes like this where it's really helped us to   get a head start and just getting a pulse on what  people are talking about, what people care about,   and then we can pick it up and check it  in our future engagement events in person   um through other survey tools um and just kind of  see if we're we're getting it right as we keep on   going. Um and then if as we kind of move into  kind of more complimentary um engagement tools   um the open houses and workshops are going to be  critical um to get people in a setting that may be   more familiar for a lot of folks who participate  frequently in planning processes. Um it'll be in   the evening. Um our it's coming up on September  15th will be our first one. Um, and that'll focus   on sharing some of our observations, some of  the analysis that we've been doing, um, and what   we've kind of taken away from our conversations  thus far. Um, and start to check that direction   against other people's experiences, see if it's  resonating, and kind of use that to shape the   vision, the goals, etc. Um, so this is just to  kind of give you a sense of what the feel is like.   We try and make them very fluid, very open, so  people can have kind of ad hoc conversations with   the planning team and we can go deeper on these  questions and not just get at the service level   and kind of have that um Q&A relationship. We want  to really get into conversations with people. Um,  

next slide. Um the other benefit of this kind of  approach is it allows us to extend the impact by   having those boards, those same kind of display  boards with explanations and activities that we   use in those open houses to then be available um  on a standing basis in places that people come to   frequently. So for instance, you might think city  hall, the library, community campus, places like   that where we might be able to get the attention  of people who are coming for another reason, maybe   aren't tuning into the plan as much, but they see  the boards and they're intrigued. we get a little   bit more input and validation of whether we're on  the right track. Um, next slide. So, thank you for   listening to us talk for a while. We really mostly  are here to hear from you. We want to hear about   your ambitions for the plan, what you feel like  we should be getting out of it, how you define   success, um so that we can make sure as we're  carrying it forward, we're really meeting that   challenge and we're really working with you to get  you a plan that's going to work really well for   you for the next decade. Um so these are just a  couple of prompts to kind of get the conversation   going. Happy to go back to slides if there are  questions um or things you wanted to clarify,   talk more about. um really that the time is yours  to kind of you know make sure that we're helping   you understand where we're headed and that we're  doing what you have um in mind for the plan. So   I think with that maybe I'll hand it back to you  Rick. Thank you Zoe and I should note that uh you   made some extraordinary effort to be here tonight  which was very appreciated. So thank you for that.   Of course. Um questions for Zoe or Matt? Yes. Uh  Logan first. Yeah. Thank sorry go ahead. Uh thanks   again both of you had really great presentation.  Um, I had a couple questions written down and I   realized my first question is maybe repeating  the first question of yours back at you, but   just from a structural perspective, I understand  you're drawing on a lot of different resources to   create the plan. Is is generally your plan to sort  of open what we have and edit it or start from   scratch and create something new? Like what's  your kind of thought or plan on that? I mean,  

there were plan a lot. That's a great question.  Um do you want to Okay. So I think generally   what we do is we you know this it's been a decade  right essentially since the last one. So what we   use the kind of the prior plan for is there's  there many things that are kind of stable in   a community throughout time. And for instance the  um the map of the different kind of pattern areas   um that immediately resonated with us that that's  a lot of that is still true that interpretation of   the city. there are important places where it's  evolved because development has happened. Um,   you know, infrastructure has shifted, the  perception of a place has shifted. So, what   we tend to do is we treat it as a really strong  foundation for us and a like a reference document,   but we don't kind of pick it up and start like  redlinining it and sort of tweaking things. we   really just kind of keep it as a reference point  and we start fresh keeping that in mind and being   sure that we're carrying forward things that were  mentioned there and we're kind of checking it   against where you are now, what you want now and  if it's all still resonating. Like when I saw the   list of the um the kind of guiding principles  or kind of the um themes that came through of   engagement, a lot of that struck me as pretty  consistent with sort of broadly speaking what   we're starting to hear now. So we don't need  to reinvent stuff, but we don't start from the   premise that we're tweaking that. We start from  the premise that we're using it as a resource. Bill, thank you for doing this. This is very  important work. Uh se several of us are on   the planning board because of this more strategic  view as opposed to a lot of the detail stuff that   we normally do. Um I I've got two thoughts that  um I'm concerned about. I think uh one is that   Portsouth is the center of a metropolitan area  and it's not a standalone city. Uh majority of  

the people that work here live in Rochester or uh  Summerssworth or Dover or elsewhere in Rockingham   County. Uh so the the focus being Portsouth  uh is right but it has to be in the context   of the role in the metropolitan area and there  are a couple oddities in that uh one is peas   uh where there are 10,000 jobs it's located in  Portsouth but it's really not under the management   of the Portsouth government. Uh so somehow  there should be a recognition of of the role   of peas in the metropolitan area and its impact  on Portsouth. Uh a correlary to that would be the   uh uh Foxron Mall in Newington. Uh Torington's  going to spend a half a billion dollars o on   that over the next time frame of this uh plan. uh  and it has huge implications for uh the business   community in Portsouth which people haven't really  we none of us have really started to think about   the implications of of what the development  of redevelopment of that mall might mean for   Portsouth. Uh so there's there's implications for  housing. Uh we often think that the housing has to   be in Portsouth. Uh but maybe not. uh and there's  implications for transportation. We really do not   have a robust regional transportation system  and if the uh if the employment is going to   be distributed then there has to be a way to  get to the work site. Uh so you know somewhere   in the thinking about regionalism there's a a  transportation implication of that. So I I guess   the thought is that that as you do this, please  don't uh limit yourself to thinking about you know  

what people think in the context of just Portsouth  and it's how we fit in the in the broader region.   U the second is there'll be a lot of discussion of  development and where we should go in the future.   Uh there's a equally important thought about  preservation of what we have. Uh most people   in Portsouth love Portsouth and it's important  to understand why and as we develop things in   the future not to uh un intelligently trade off  what we have. Uh I'm glad that everybody loves   uh Market Square. Uh but but it it extends  throughout the historic district and in much   of what the board does in land use activity,  we really don't have any aesthetic component   of our discussions. It's heights and setbacks and  stuff like that. Uh but it's not how we retain the   aesthetic of Portsmouth. So for one one person's  point of view, if if out of this process there   could be a way that we could help understand the  wonderfulness of what we have and how to protect   it, uh that would be a a very good outcome. Yeah,  absolutely. Two really great points and something   that um especially when you know there was a lot  of analysis that we did to kind of make sure that   when we came on site we were able to kind of  make the most of our time here and both of the   things you just raised were really um you know  we had a hunch based on our conversations with   you and others that that was we had to you know  really be thinking about those things and as soon   as we were here and thinking about it on site  it was those things were just so apparent that   we need to really be thinking about you know when  we talk about growth some of it isn't necessarily   projecting new growth and encouraging new  growth in specific areas. It's also about   managing where the growth is already occurring  and thinking about how do we get that to fit and  

be complimentary and be um supporting kind of the  the network that you have. Um and and be kind of   playing off of those places where you really want  to be careful and be preserving and protecting a   pattern that people love and really helping  to describe and reinforce what that pattern   actually is. Because oftent times when we talk  to folks about the places they love the most,   they struggle to explain what it is. You know,  they know it's great, but they maybe have trouble   saying this is specifically the thing that's  making it feel that way. And we're really good   at helping to tease that out. So, we're already  planning to do some of that work to sort of say   this is some of the things we notice about these  places that you've named that you really love and   want to protect. Are we getting it right? Do you  think those are the the things that are making   it work? Okay, great. we can now we have some  language for like how to protect it that goes   beyond just historic preservation and starts to  talk about when there's maybe a vacant, you know,   maybe there's a parking lot and you're like  actually we'd like to have a building there,   but we want it to work with the historic  district kind of a language for what that means   that that isn't just about style, it's about the  relationship to the street and and what it's doing   for the kind of the functioning of the place.  So, I really appreciate you bringing that up. And   um to the regional point point, I think there's a  lot of things that we're starting to observe about   even within Portsouth, kind of the structure  and relationship of like different patterns,   different kind of the suburban neighborhoods  relationship to the downtown Kar's relationship   to Portsmith that I think start to suggest like  principles that we can kind of set in motion for   Portsouth that should be applied further beyond  Portsmith. the same idea continues and and the   the you know municipal line is is just something  that's on maps. It doesn't necessarily correspond   to how people are living their lives. So I think  it's a really good point that we we keep that in   mind and we actually change the way we're our  maps looked. We had a really strong border  

around Portsmith and we've brought back all of the  context because we're realizing how critical those   relationships are to be constantly part of the  way we're thinking about that. So, I encourage   you to can keep us accountable on both of those  points because I think they're really important. So, I was curious when you were showing  those cards that were, you know, four people,   you had places where they had been distributed  listed and I live in one of them and work in the   other community campus and have had heard  absolutely nothing about this. Yeah. So,   as a resident of PHA, um I'm a little surprised  that it does say that they're out there,   but we we've heard nothing about it. And as  a employee at Community Campus, we've heard   nothing about it. And I work for, you know, one of  the largest child care um providers in the area,   and we've heard nothing about it. So, I was just  curious how you're getting the word out um so that   people who are living in these areas that these  cards are being maybe they're put out somewhere   but we're just not hearing or seeing them. Yeah,  absolutely. Appreciate you bringing that up. Um so   we up through the summer we are mostly focusing  on events and then just in the last week or so   um we focused on then now that the sort of events  are winding down a little bit. The pacing of them   are reducing getting um some collection boxes into  some of the places where people are kind of going   frequently either because they live there or they  are visiting there for during the day. Um, and we   had them out for like about a week and we haven't  gotten cards back. So, we're planning to go back   and talk to the folks because we oftentimes  it's a it's a nuanced thing of, you know,  

where is the box, who's this person staffing it,  who's like raising it and talking about it. So,   we'll keep kind of pushing that and hopefully  those will start to have a similar impact as   what the kind of community events have been  because that in that setting um Ann and what   whatever other city staff or consultant team staff  are with her are really kind of reaching out to   folks and say, "Hey, like come come talk to us.  We want to talk about Portsmith. Like, I'm sure   you have an opinion. Can you share it with us?"  And that pulls people in. Um, so sometimes there's   a little bit of boosterism that's required to  kind of actually get it on people's radar. So, I   appreciate you raising it and we can keep getting  it better. Um, the visioning comment cards, um,   we often are kind of flexible about when we close  that sort of engagement tool. So, we kind of keep   pushing it until we feel like it's a natural  point to shift gears and start talking about   recommendations or start talking about kind of the  next stage. So, we can absolutely kind of keep it   up open and try and keep boosting awareness in  the places where um, we haven't been getting as   much traction yet. So, that's helpful feedback and  we'll recalibrate and do better on those kind of   um physical spots that we're kind of having the  collection. And then um we also expect to have a   couple more events. Um and for PHA in particular,  um we are in touch with folks at PHA who are kind   of planning to do it more on like an event basis.  So, that one is less of a like at this point it   hasn't yet been broadcast. um it's more of a  like individual staff members are reaching out   as they talk to people and kind of encouraging  them to fill out and provide some input. So,   we'll keep kind of recalibrating that and  and get more input from it um as we go. Hi. Uh the largest employer in our area um shares  our name but not our our border. Um but consider  

Portsouth Naval Shipyard and its importance and  its impact on our economy. Um because they they   they can't meet their their employment goals  and their workforce needs without the city of   Portsouth and without New Hampshire. So in some  way I don't know how um engaging with them across   state lines. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So we've um  already started talking to um this is you know   different obviously but to the port and to peas  with a similar kind of spirit in mind they're   distinct entities they have a lot of sort of  control and and needs for their own land and their   own sort of economic functions to work. So, we  haven't yet had sort of like a explicit outreach   to um the um the shipyard, but we expect to over  the course of the project because obviously to the   point um that Bill made about sort of the regional  relationships like that's right across the you   know the state line literally in your you know  your harbor in your bay. Um, so we fully expect   that that'll be part of the plan and we'll see  kind of where that conversation takes us. But,   um, I think those kinds of relationships, economic  relationships, housing relationships that are   right at your borders are absolutely part of  what this kind of effort is about. It's about   shaping the strategy for those relationships  and how you are going to kind of deal with   those relationships within Fort Smith, but also  how you're communicating out to those partners.   this is really where we want to go. How do we get  there? Like does that line up with what you're   doing or not? And how do we address that? So, it's  intended to be kind of a communication partnership   tool as well. Thank you, Andrew. Um I'm glad that  you had the opportunity to do a site visit. I I   don't know if we were invited and I missed it or  No, you weren't invited. Sorry. Wasn't invited.   Got it. It's okay. There's still time. We'll  be with you for a while. I I promise it means  

nothing about our intentions to continue engaging  with you. Um I did put the deodorant on today,   so it's okay. Um I think that the next time you  do that site visit, it is imperative that the   members on this planning board are in attendance  to that. And even if it's just us and you all,   it seems very critical because there are a lot  of nuances to why certain sites look a certain   way that um albeit and Wyman is extremely helpful  and can contribute but may not have those nuances   or details. So I think that's very important and  I think September 15th could be a good day to do   both of those things if you have the availability.  Secondarily, um number four, what does success   look like to you? Uh it's no one really knows how  to quantify or qualify success in this scenario or   very few people do. Sure, if you're a city staffer  or you all, but nonetheless, the general public   or other members of the planning board may not  know how to capture that. So, a better question,   I think, is what does failure look like? And that  would be sort of glazing over a lot of our zoning   ordinance or some of the projects that we've had  in the past that uh have caused a reaction whether   positive or negative that I think we have the  ability to improve upon. So um I think number four   could read in the inverse and what is what does  failure look like? So to me, I hope that that can   be articulated because you'll probably get a much  better reaction or stimulate a better crowd when   you ask it that way because you'll obviously get  quite a few outcriers and that's okay. Like that's   kind of what we're looking for to then improve  upon ourselves in the future. Yeah, I appreciate   that. Um, we definitely I will be would be happy  to figure out a way for the September 15th. I have   to look at kind of the schedule, but I think that  would be a great opportunity for us to kind of,   you know, when we the first site visit that we do,  we often are really kind of looking to the staff  

and the communities that we work with to kind of  guide us through some of the, you know, basics   and really get us grounded. And then we found  that it's really effective to engage with the   planning board. Once we kind of have that first  foundation and we're beginning to pivot towards   those what you're describing those more, you know,  project specific, sight specific, um beginning to   think more in a more granular way about zoning  because you're dealing with all of the nuances   of how people how developments are, you know,  um navigating your current zoning. Where are the   friction points? What are the community members,  you know, finding objectionable or upsetting? um   and that we're best able to have that conversation  with you when we're closer to that midpoint. So,   I think that the 15th will be a really good time  for us to kind of be, you know, we'll be pivoting   towards that that level of specificity and I think  it'll help to enrich our understanding at that   point. It just reminded me, you sort of alluded to  Market Square being the epicenter of Portsmith and   I think maybe changing that verbiage would help  you in the long run. Oh, yeah. I think it's it's   more like downtown as a whole, you know? I think  even that alone, I think just where we are headed   in our zoning changes in the last 3 months would  indicate that Route One corridor and other parts   of western Portsouth or southern Portsouth are uh  getting much more of that attention. And on top of   that, we don't want people who don't necessarily  spend a lot of time in downtown Portsouth to feel   as though they don't have an ability to contribute  or have a need to contribute. So, um I think yeah,   happy to change that phrasing. think um especially  because I think uh the intention isn't what you   heard which is helpful for us to know because then  we can fix it because I think what we're observing   is there's you know in the in the conversations  we've been hearing um amongst people who live all   over the region that we've spoken to including you  know um in Ry and Rochester and like um you know   in Kery that there's a a shared pride about  downtown Portsmith whether or not people are  

visiting frequently and that it's something that  people value. Um, which is not to the exclusion   of where they are actually living because  the majority of people who are talking about   that don't live downtown, don't shop frequently  downtown. Um, which is not a criticism. Um, but   I think what we're noticing is there's a really  an opportunity, especially as we think about   the prior master plan, um, the 2025 master plan  and pivoting to this one. You've already started   to see a lot of development outside of downtown.  you've seen a lot of pressures that are pushing,   you know, people to kind of invest in and sort of  build, you know, more, you know, of neighborhood   center perhaps outside of downtown. And so,  I think that's actually where we're imagining   the direction of the plan might be about kind of  continuing to recalibrate and protect and sort of   continue to enhance and tweak what makes downtown  great, but also putting a lot more focus on how   does that relate to all of the neighborhoods?  What is the vision for each of the neighborhoods?   you know, how do we think about what's the kind  of nucleus of each of those neighborhoods, what   their key corridors are, where their amenities  are to kind of really be more sensitive to that   as part of where there's actually a lot of change  and uncertainty maybe and um questions about how   to shape development in those places where maybe  it is a more dramatic change from what the sort of   maybe a more suburban corridor is and then you're  seeing a larger multif family building go in,   how does that relationship get kind of reconciled  and sort of moved towards something that people   can see as mutually beneficial? Does that help at  all? Yep. Um, that sounded really loud. You were.   I didn't mean to be that loud. It was really loud.  Um, one of the questions I know that the city   council has been asking a lot is how do we get  because I think there are a lot of residents that   actually do live here that don't spend a lot of  time downtown. So having answers to that question  

and the reasons why would be super helpful to  us. I know uh one of the other things I want to   talk about is our zoning and I think that we've  failed in a few areas and it's mostly when you're   thinking about the urban cores next to really  dense residential neighborhoods and transitions   between the two of them. I'm struggling to try to  get some of that changed, but I think it would be   really helpful if we're looking at especially,  you know, what uses are actually happening,   what uses make sense based off of density  and really trying to have a conversation   about that and how we interact between really  urban areas and more residential areas because   we do have a housing crisis. We absolutely need  diversity of housing. We absolutely need diversity   affordability of housing and we definitely need  regional transportation. So everything everyone's   been talking about is right on, but I want us to  be really sensitive to outside of downtown and   how we interact between those urban areas and the  residential neighborhoods that we butt up against   because we are going to start to see a lot more  residential development near um strip malls and   Route One. And you know, the whole idea behind our  gateway when we created it was to be able to have   these little pockets of commercial and residential  that become like pocket neighborhoods all   throughout the city. and maybe they're a little  bit more than that in some areas, but I just want   to make sure that we are, you know, conscientious  about those neighborhoods that are really stable   that deserve some sort of transitioning in  our zoning and how we can make that happen.   Yeah, I think that's a great point and and one  of the things that was really um noticeable for   us as we were kind of navigating the city um  at the beginning of August is that there are   several pretty abrupt transitions that I think  maybe historically have held for you know maybe   there's a natural barrier there like a waterway or  wetlands maybe there's an infrastructural barrier   um but there are other places where there's a  thinner line between very different patterns um  

and I think those are places where we can give  some, you know, we'll be having conversations   with folks about like where we might zoom in as  we get towards the latter part of the plan. Um,   and those are places that might pop up as we think  about that where there's a it's it's actually a   pretty complicated question of how do you make it  feel good but really keep that connection strong,   but also allow for some distinction that is valued  by people who are seeking different experiences   on either side of that line. Thank you. Yeah, I  appreciate that comment. I I have questions, but   I also don't have much time. Um, I'd like to note  that we've got a really good consultant. We've got   a very good planning staff, and I'd like to issue  a challenge for the planning board to really work   with this group to try to come up with something  that's special because we can just listen to what   they have to say and let it happen or we can  get engaged. And one thing that I know Zoe has   mentioned as a possibility is actually talking  with planning board members of how they could get   engaged and not step on the toes of the consultant  to put it bluntly. Um so that's a conversation we   won't have tonight but I think that's an option.  Uh and that's one way because outreach is a way   to get the more outreach that can happen the  better the plan will be and that's a very costly   difficult part of the process. So that's how we  could one way we could help staff up folks. I'd   really like you to think about it and uh find ways  that we can work with this strong team to come up   with a great plan. That's a great segue for me,  Rick, to the next slide, which I won't use to we   can keep talking about, but I think it'll help  with what you were just talking about because   um we are planning to offer um and we're happy  to schedule another one if these don't work,   but um two uh trainings on outreach to help you  understand kind of some of the things that have  

been effective for an um and what tools we have  and kind of what um our strategy is so that we   can help to kind of plug you in. Not mandatory  obviously, but anybody who's interested if you   wanna um maybe uh Peter, not to put you on the  spot, but maybe you can contact Peter, let him   know if you're interested, and we can um make  sure that you're plugged into one of those. Um   it's Wednesday, September 3rd from 9:00 to 10:00  a.m. Um and Wednesday, September 10th from 5:30 to   6:30. Um we try to pick just different times that  might work for different people, but please let   us know if neither work for you and we'll figure  it out. Um, but the idea is we want to kind of,   you know, over the summer we were really kind  of getting gathering our steam and getting an   um kind of feeling comfortable in the role  and kind of having um getting in a groove.   And now I think we're in a a great place to kind  of open it up and bring more people into the fold   and just kind of amplify that capacity and show  up in more places because like as you mentioned   right you're like I'm already noticing in the  places that I'm visiting it's not going as far   as I would have hoped. So that's a great piece of  information for us and each of you I'm sure have   you know individual relationships that you have a  different sort of slice of Portsmith and can help   boost understanding and and input from that slice.  So would welcome that and and also kind of more   direct engagement um beyond, you know, outreach.  If there's things that you want to kind of have a   more a sort of more uh structured conduit to  kind of consistently um share ideas with us,   we would love to have that, you know, integrated  into our process in a more continuous way. The   updates are really intended to make sure that at  those kind of big milestones, we're making sure   you're, you know, both oriented and that we're  getting input that's relevant to that juncture   in the project. But we're going to be our mind's  going to be in this for more than a year. So,   we're we're really welcome, you know,  we'd love to have your input as we go  

um as things come up for you um that you think  we should be attending to. Thank you very much. I think that's it. Thank you very much.  You get on with our other meeting,   but drive carefully. We'll do. Thank you  all for your time and enjoy the rest of   your night. Thank you. Um Logan, I'd like you  to sit for Miss Connor this evening. And Frank,   can you sit for Tony Coello? Yeah. And I thought  I saw Joe. Joe's here. He's right there. Oh,   there he is. I did see you come in. Yes. Sorry,  I had another something else to attend to. Sorry.   I kind of thought you might. Uh, quick approval  of the minutes. Everybody have a chance to look   at the minutes. Motion to approve the minutes  from July 17th meeting. Is there a second? Any   discussion? All those in favor? I I. Any opposed?  We have uh two determinations of completeness.   One for subdivision 361 Handover Steam Factory  LLC as owner for property at 361 Handover Street.   Requesting site plan approval and preliminary  final subdivision approval for the addition   of four new residential structures and the  renovation of existing commercial building at   361 Handover Street with associated and required  site improvements. Subdivision review completeness motion. I can't I'm somebody else has to motion  to approve the sub division review item A there second second any discussion  all those I'll be recusing okay   on even on completeness okay all those  in favor I any opposed and one recusal  

um we have site plan review completeness again.  Handover I'm going to read it again. It's the   same thing. 361 Handover Street U Bramley  Portsmouth LLC owner for property isn't that   being 1464. I think you need to do handover  separately since two of us are recusing. So we'll just do handover. Is that what you  Yeah. Okay. Motion to site plan acceptance   site for completeness 361 handover steam  factory. Motion to approve the site plan   review for item A 361 handover steam factory  completeness not approval. I'm sorry. Second.   Any discussion? All those in favor? I I  any opposed and recusal. We have request   of Isn't this one? This one being continued.  No, no, it isn't. Okay. This is the bank,   right? At the request of Bramley Force  LLC, owner for property 1465 Woodbury,   requesting a conditional use permit from  section 105B4110 for a development site   condition use permit from 10440 use 1940 for  a drive-thru facility and site plan review of   approval for the construction of a 2847 square ft  singlestory banking facility with drive-thru and   associated site improvements including parking,  pedestrian access, utility infrastructure,   storm water management systems, lighting and  landscaping. Again, completeness on site plan.   Move to say complete. Second. Any discussion? All  those in favor? I. Any opposed? The request of   the city of Portsmouth is owner for property at 35  Sherburnette Road. Requesting review of site plan   review and conditional use permit applications  within the highway. Noise overlay district for   the recommendation to the city manager for the  construction of 127 workforce housing units and  

three buildings including demolition of the rear  gym of the school and converting the remaining   structure into eight units. Construction  of a fourstory 90un building, construction   of a three-story 29 unit building and associated  site improvements including utilities, lighting,   landscaping, storm water, parking and access.  Again, completeness on those issues. Move to   determine complete. Second. Any discussion? These  are these are just moving for completeness of the   application so we can proceed for consideration  and that will involve public comment. Any discussion? All those in favor? I. Any  opposed? We will now have a series of public   hearings. And for folks here online, our rules are  that uh first is a presentation by the proponent,   questions by the planning board members. We  then have uh public comment which can be in   support of just comments about the application  or in opposition to the application. The first   round we have up to three rounds. The first round  you may speak. Um it's you have to speak in the   first round if you wish to speak in subsequent  rounds. First round is three minutes. It's   oral comment only. The second round is five  minutes and you can include a presentation.   If you have a presentation, you can do that  in the second round. And the third round is   five minutes oral comment only. Again, if you  wish to speak in the second or third round,   you must speak in the first round. And the same  for the second to speak in the third round.   After that, the chair closes the public hearing,  which is me, and then the board deliberates. We have um items A and B in the following in  the agenda, which requests to postpone. Move   to postpone. Second. I'd like to request that  they be renoticed as well because it's been  

postponed a few times. If we could add that  to the Absolutely. So request to postpone   to the September meeting with a renotice. Any  discussion? All those in favor? I. Any opposed? New business public hearing request of Ryan Leong,   owner as property of 137 Walker Bungalow Road.  And I apologize if I mispronounce your name.   requesting an after- the-act wetland conditional  use permit for work done within the 100 foot   wetland buffer and the 100 foot vernal pool  buffer without a permit. The applicant had   previously removed a 6x12 ft rear deck and  footings and new concrete footings were poured   and a new 6x12 ft deck was built. Crush down  underneath the deck, a set of stores, stairs,   and a five square ft concrete landing with  new plantings within the buffer area are all   proposed with this application. This property's  on assessor's map 202 lot 4 and lies within   the single residence B or SRB district.  Who is here to present this application? Please step up, give your name and uh proceed. Yeah, I'm also the homeowner. My name is Eric  Leemanut with my son Ryan. So, we uh we tore the   deck down prematurely. Um, but we have poured the  sauna tubes. Um, Saraveino came in and redressed   the whole backyard. It was in tough shape. So, um,  we jumped the gun a little bit. We apologize for   that, but we're willing to do, you know, plantings  and things like that along the buffer to,   uh, you know, rectify the the situation.  So, the deck is going to be exactly the   same size of what was there. The stairs  are going to be exactly the same size. Uh,   it was previous built on cement blocks. We need  to put sauna tubes in four feet deep and a landing  

for with a stairs hit on the bottom. So that's  all we're doing. Okay. Questions of the applicant? No questions. Sorry, I can't see. I am Peter's  like a wall between you and I. Um just one quick   question. You said that it was on cement blocks  and you're going to replace it with the sonic   tubes, right? Are those going to be in the same  location? Exact same location. Yes. In the same   amount of of ones, right? The same met. Okay.  That's my only question. Okay. And you've added   crushed stone under the deck, right? It's there  now. Yeah. Yeah. We don't want sediment to the   the ponds that are in the back. So, any other  questions to the applicant? Sorry, just one   question. When was the old deck removed? Was that  recent? No, about six months ago. Okay, thanks. Thank you very much. Going to open the  public hearing. Is there anybody here   or on Zoom who wishes to speak to  four against this application? You   can be seated unless you wish to  speak during the public hearing. Anybody on Zoom? Nobody. Last call. Anybody  wish to speak to four against this application? See nobody on Zoom. I'm going to close  the public hearing. I'll make a motion   we vote to find the condition use permit  application meets the requirements set   forth in section 10.1017.50 of the ordinance  and adopt the findings of fact as presented.   Second discussion. All those in favor? I. Any  opposed? I'll continue and make a motion that   we vote to grant the conditional use  permit with the following conditions.   2.1 second discussion. Um it's just replacing  what was there. You're not really, you know,  

and that and they're going to improve the buffer.  There's no way to do this outside the buffer.   That's for sure. So, um I think it's a pretty  simple, straightforward improvement. I agree. Any other discussion? All those in  favor? I. Any opposed? Thank you. Of the request of 361 Handover Steam Factory  LLC is owner for property located 361 Handover   Street. Requesting site plan review approval and  preliminary and final subdivision approval for the   addition of four new residential structures and  the renovation of existing commercial building   at 361 Handover Street with the associated and  required site improvements. This property is on   assessor's map 138 lot 63 and lies in character  district 5 or CD5 and the downtown overlay   district. Who is here to present this application?  Good evening Mr. Chair, members of the board of   m attorney John Bosen. I'm here on behalf of the  applicant. Also with me tonight is Steven Wilson   and Shane Forsley. We have our engineer John  Shagnet from Haley Ward and Terrence Parker, our   landscape architect. We're here tonight requesting  site plan review approval and subdivision approval   for our 40 unit residential housing project  at 361 Hanover Street. By way of background,   it would be an understatement to say that it's  been quite an odyssey to get here tonight. We   started work on this project in early 2024. We had  our first meeting before this board uh April 18th,   2024. We had a conceptual consultation followed  by our first design review hearing on May 16th,   2024. The original project and building layout  with 48 units, although vested by design review,   wasn't well received by the neighborhood. So,  we took comments from the public, city staff,   and this board, and we redesigned the project. We  broke up the buildings. We reduced the density.  

And we came back before you for another conceptual  consultation on July 18th, 2024. This time, the   plan was wellreceived, but it needed zoning relief  from the downtown overlay district. After multiple   ZBA hearings and design tweaks to our plans, we  did receive variances from the zoning board on   February 18th, 2025. We then came back to this  board for another design review on April 17th,   2025. We then went through TAC and received our  recommendation for approval last month in July.   Throughout this project though, we had numerous  meetings with staff, Abutters, legal counsel. We   did a traffic study, we had lots of architectural  refinements, landscaping and engineering. And on   behalf of this team, I can say that over the past  year and a half, this project has evolved. It's   improved to something that we're very proud of,  something that will add much neededed housing   to downtown Portland in a very desirable area.  As we go through the uh presentation tonight,   I would ask you all not to lose sight of  the existing conditions. This property,   as it currently sits, is unsightly. It's an old  commercial, outdated, nonfunctional building with   a very long history of industrial and commercial  use. What you see tonight is far less intense   than what has operated on that site and what  could operate on that site. We understand and   appreciate that people in the neighborhood don't  like change and that are opposed to the project.   You heard lots of voices against approval tonight,  but I can't stress enough that this project was   engineered and designed thoughtfully and carefully  to meet the requirements of the zoning ordinance.   So, with that background, I'd like to invite  John Shagden up to the podium. John will go   through the plans and we'll come back up and  answer any questions you may have. Thank you.

Thank you, John. Good evening, planning  board members. John Shagnet from Haley   Ward. As mentioned, the project is located at  361 Handover Street Tax Map 138 lot 63 and it   lies in a CD5 and downtown overlay districts. The  proposal is to renovate and expand the existing   361 Hanover Street building and construct four  new residential buildings, changing the site to   40 residential dwelling units. The site zoning  calls for first floor commercial use. However,   in recognition of neighborhood development  patterns, the design team applied for and   received relief from the Portsouth board of  adjustment for firstf flooror residential   use. Plans were refined in the board of adjustment  process based on neighborhood input and structures   were reshaped and relocated. At that time, the BOA  recognized that there would be another process,   the site plan review and approval process,  which might impact the final design of the   building and the site layout. And therefore,  the board made it clear in its written approval   conditions that their approval was conditioned  on the design and location of the buildings may   change as a result of planning board review  and approval. And in the approval process   with the technical advisory committee, that is  exactly what happened. So what you have before   you tonight is a thoroughly reviewed and compliant  proposal for the redevelopment of the parcel plan   set is arranged in the typical fashion. And  since you have had time to review the plans,   I will just highlight the important points as I go  through the set. Please feel free to ask questions   of myself or any team member as we go through.  The project includes next slide the subdivision of the existing parcel. The proposal is to create  two lots. One lot containing the existing Heene  

building as it is known and having an area of  38,528 square ft and a second parcel that contains   the last chance garage as it is known having an  area of 4,717 square ft. The proposed lots comply   with the required zoning density standards  including providing open space and parking.   Subdivision plan also shows the easements  necessary to maintain both access and   utility services to the proposed lot one,  the last chance garage parcel. The plan set   contains an easement plan. Next slide. That  would be recorded showing those easements. And since the development will expand the width  of the city sidewalk on Hanover Street, a proposed   one- foot sidewalk easement to be granted to the  city of Portsouth is included. Additionally, there   is a utility easement for the existing underground  electrical and communication services crossing   over proposed lot one and servicing lot two  shown on the plan. The next plan is an orthopoto   plan. So a view from above, it shows the abuing  neighborhood densities and contains a listing of   conforming and non-conforming properties in close  proximity to the proposal before you. Then we have   an existing conditions plan and a demolition plan.  The demolition plan, next slide, shows the removal   of a small addition on the rear of the existing  building as well as demo work for the replacement   of the sidewalk along handover street and the  removal of a significant amount of pavement on   the site. Next plan, the site plan shows the  development in in detail. There will be four   new buildings constructed in front of the existing  Heineman building. They are labeled on the plan as  

buildings B, C, D, and E. Buildings B, C, and D  are residential duplex buildings, and building E   is an 8 unit building. Starting from the uh larger  Heineman building in the middle of the sheet, uh,   building B is directly uh, south C, south of that  at the Rock Street, Hannover Street intersection.   Building D to the right and then you have the site  driveway and then building E to the right of that.   The site plan shows access from Hover Street in  a location that is across from Pearl Street. The   location that the technical advisory committee  required. The site plan shows the required   parking calculations. The site will contain  66 parking spaces for the 40 dwelling units.   Also included is the impervious surface area chart  showing a decrease in imperous surface. There is   also in your package a supplemental open space  calculation that combines the landscaping shown   in green here and the sidewalk spaces as allowed  and shows that the plan meets the required open   space and in fact provides 6.4% open space where  5% is required. The zoning development standards   table on this sheet lists all the requirements  relative to the character district standards   and how the plan meets those requirements. The  landscaping plan. Next slide shows the addition   of significant off-site and on-site landscaping,  including the introduction of some street level   landscaping along handover street and inclusion  of off-site landscaping adjacent to Rock Street,   which will be maintained by the future residents  is an area of um excess rightway on Rock Street  

owned by the city of Portsouth. Next slide.  The utility plan shows the connection from   the site. Well, actually there's details of  landscaping and then the utility plan. Sorry. It shows the connection from the site to  the city utilities and those connections   have been reviewed and approved by the  technical advisory committee. Next plan   is a grading and drainage plan showing the  site drainage. The site drainage is going   to be directed to the existing connections  to city infrastructure in a manner that the   site is currently directed to. There will be a  catch basin connection on Rock Street at Sudbury   Street and another connection near the Foundry  Place Circle. On-site catch basins and roof   drain connections will provide the necessary  storm water connections to the city system.   The next plan, roof drainage plan, accounts  for the directing of the roof drainage to   the collection system based on the projected  roof types. The next plan is the lighting plan   which shows the site will be well lit from  building mounted lighting. In the style and   specifications are detailed in the supplemental  material. Next sheet, the parking plan shows   the parking spaces and shows the handicap  parking and location of interior bike racks.   Next plan is the fire truck turning template  plan that was reviewed by the ports with fire   department and as a result of comments from the  fire department regarding access to Hill Street.   The site was readine and this plan shows that the  fire department apparatus will be able to access   and egress the site without having to travel to  or across Hill Street. the architectural plans and   I won't go through them but they are attached and  they show the building elevations and floor plans.  

Uh note in your package on the architectural  plans that sheet A21E shows the corner of building   E. You want to get to that. Uh keep going. Keep  going again. Right there. So in the upper portion   of that it shows the building E the left side is  the side against the site access driveway and the   right side is this open side on the north where  the parking u spaces are entered. And one of the   comments from the technical advisory committee  had to do with sight sighting around the driveway   uh corner as you approach building E, the back  of building E from the driveway. And so notice   here that the building E has been designed  to be open at that garage level to allow   for sight through the garage so that vehicles  approaching on the driveway can see traffic.   And this creates a safe situation and addresses  that concern by the technical advisory committee. Additional materials in your package include a  site distance triangle plan exhibit. It shows the   site driveway will provide safe sight distance  on handover street which was a concern of the   technical advisory committee in the neighborhood.  and the landscaping plan notes maintenance of the   landscaping in that triangle area to ensure  that the site distance is maintained based   on the extensive review of this project over  the past 24 months. We submit that this design   is ready for your approval. The subdivision  meets the ordinance requirements for project   and is compliant with the applicable site zoning.  Sufficient on-site parking is provided. Pedestrian   circulation has been reviewed and a traffic  technical memorandum reviewed and approved.  

It's in your package with recommendations that  are reflected in the site plans that you have   before you. The traffic memorandum encourages  the use of alternative modes of transportation   and encourage the developer to provide a  transportation coordinator to administer   and provide a welcome packet to residents. and  the developer is open to that. That will be a   part of the condominium documents and operations  of the condominium. We submit adequate landscaping   has been provided. Infrastructure is in place  including storm water management. Site leting   and signage has been addressed as well as  utilities and solid waste. The technical   advisory committee on July 1st recommended to  this board that you approve the project subject   to conditions and as noted in the staff memo  from the planning department those conditions   have been addressed in the submission you  have before you. The planning department   listed the appropriate approval conditions for  your consideration and the developer agrees that   those conditions are acceptable and appropriate.  Therefore, we respectfully request that you grant   approval to both the subdivision and site plan  here tonight. I or any team member would be glad   to answer any questions you have regarding  the proposal. Questions of the applicant. Yes, Bill. I just want to be sure that I  understand the easement which seems to be   uh not universally agreed. Uh, is it correct that  currently the Hill Street Condominium Association   has an easement across this property that would  interfere with building E. That's not a true   statement. The first half is true, but the second  half is not. So, the um condominium adjacent to   this site seen in the lower right hand corner  certainly does have an easement to cross this  

property. But there is also a document that allows  the project proponent and the owner of this site   to relocate that easement at their expense. And  that's what is being done here. This plan shows   a relocated easement that complies with and is  contained in the site access locations. So that   ability for the condominium to uh egress through  the site is maintained. So the the easement has   been properly filed 40 years ago uh something  like that and has the been an official agreement   with the condiment condominium owners uh that  they accept a change to what that easement was.   So, the document's on file. The document was  signed by the parties at the time and the and   the document says that the owners of this  property can as long as they provide a way   they can relocate it and it doesn't require that  the condominium association quote approve of that.   They approved of that by signing the document many  years ago that said we will let you relocate it. Have we seen that document? Yes, it is included  in the package. I'll let I'll let attorney Bosen   speak further. I guess this is a complicated  issue and it's being currently litigated in   the Rockham County Superior Court. So, I don't  think that this is the proper venue to discuss   it. But to answer your question, there is an  easement that is recorded at the Rockingham   County Registry of Deeds at book 4798, page 0712.  That document specifically provides the owners   of that condom of the condominium the right to uh  they have an access through the property. Um it's  

a general right of access from handover street  and Hill Street across the front parking area.   It goes on to say that um at the time the  owner was HP, they would agree they would   remain complete control over deciding the  location of such access in the manner in   which it is provided. And that's right out of the  words of the easement. Um so we think it's black   letter law that we have the right to relocate  that easement. They don't have any right to say   where it goes as long as we provide unimpeded  access. Our plan provides unimpeded access,   but again that this this is an issue  really for the Rockham County Spirit Court,   but we believe we are living up to the uh  full intent of the easement. Certainly,   we're not lawyers and we're not a court and so  it's not for us to judge whether the easement's   valid or it can be changed or whatever,  but it is in contention. Understand? Um I'm not I'm not really sure there's I'm sure  there's got to be case law somewhere about   what planning boards do when there's a easement  in contention relative to a site plan. Well,   I think it's the attorney's correct. It's  not our job to uh determine how something's   being litigated. But there is a related  question. I see on the subdivision plan,   you've been through several revisions  about this easement and note number 7B says   uh this easement to be redefined. But aren't you  proposing to extinguish the current location and   actually you've depicted what you propose it to be  because the way that that statement is worded it   sounds like it's yet to be defined. Well, we are  relocating that easement as shown on the plan. So,  

it should say we redefined as shown. As shown. I  think that's a fair. You agree with that, John?   It's being relocated as shown in the plan. Yes.  Yeah, that's that's a good word, Smith. I mean,   note seven is is headlined by parcel is burdened  by the following easements. So, it's a recitation   of of easements that affect the parcel, but  certainly uh 7B can be revised or a note can be   added that uh this plan, one of the purposes of  this plan is to relocate that easily. And we're   very confident that we have the right to do that.  We wouldn't have gone through this exercise for   the past 24 months to get here tonight, engineer  and design this plan. I mean, we're confident   this document gives us the right to relocate that  easement. It states it in black and white. It's   being challenged. If it gets challenged, we don't  build our project. But we're asking for approval   tonight. Obviously, in order to put a shovel in  the ground, we're going to have to resolve that   issue. Right. And just to clarify, the point  that I just tried to make. I'm not proposing   something. I'm trying to understand what you're  proposing. Fair enough. Yeah. We're what you   are proposing is to this is the easement that you  propose based on the rights you you say you have   to do that 100%. So it is to be re reefined as  shown. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? I'm I'm not sure if there's uh any conditional  component of an approval that we would have. We   just accept it as the premise that it will be  approved. the B one of the basis assuming this   proceeds to approval that's yet to be determined.  If it does proceed to approval, we have   representation by the applicant that they have the  right to do this that that would be a basis for  

the approval that this board might grant. If the  board grants that approval and it turns out that   representation is wrong, the approval is void.  I think attorney Bowzen said that in different   words, but but that won't really be determined for  another year and a half, right? Well, we could we   could get an approval tonight and somebody could  file a lawsuit against us tomorrow saying they   have adverse possession claims right across the  property, we'd never and get an injunction against   us, but until a court tells us that we don't have  the right to do it, we intend to move forward.   We believe we have the right to do it. Um, we're  asking for approval based on that right. I don't   think it's the jurisdiction of this board to weigh  in on that easement one way or another, whether it   be conditional or not. Um, we have plans that show  the easement where we intend to relocate it. Uh,   if a court tells us we can't do it there, then  we can't do it there. But our intention is to do   it there. Right. Um, I have an email um that was  printed out here. It mentions a hearing in which   uh there was an agreement on May 25th. I'm sorry  if this was already addressed and I missed it. Um,   but in section three of that agreement, uh,  it says the defendant shall not degrade,   alter, or diminish the pavement in the claimed  easement from its current condition. Um, I'm a   little confused as to, uh, how that I think we're  getting, you know, I think, unfortunately, no   need to not answer the question, but we're getting  into an issue that's being litigated in the North   County Superior Court. We have an agreement. We  agreed to that agreement that we wouldn't impede   their easement rights, which is exactly what the  easement says. The easement says we can't impede   their easement rights. Um, we're agreeing that  we're not going to impede their easement rights. That might affect when you would start  physical change. It could affect,  

but it wouldn't wouldn't necessarily affect  an approval process. Uh, one of the reasons   this is called the quasi judicial process is  the public hearing is not even begun yet. So,   we have to see what the public has to say. And,  uh, it again things matters of that need to be   litigated as matters of equity. That's not our  baywick. But if something else comes up, we'll   see what what else comes up. Any other questions?  The applicant. Yes, Bill. I do have one footnote   on that question. is the last chance garage. How  is their access affected? Uh their access is not   being impeded. Excuse me. They're going to they  will have they will have continued access to their   property by way of and they're they're in support  of they're in support of this uh subdivision as   well. if you have the subdivision plan. Yeah,  if you put the the subdivision plan which is up   uh shows that access easement and labels it  as such to uh include as stated in the note   that highlights above the dotted easement proposed  access for lot one. Lot one being the last chance   garage and map 138, lot 64. So, so that access  easement serves lot one also. So, they would   be funneled through uh your property rather than  onto Hill Street. Yes, correct. Absolutely. Yep. Yes. On that subject, is there dedicated  parking or loading for Last Chance? Yes. Any other questions?

If there's no other questions, I'm going  to go to the public hearing. Okay. Anybody   here or on Zoom who wish to speak 24  against this application? Round one. Good evening. Elizabeth Brader, property owner 159  Mcdana speed. I speak street. I'm sorry. I will be   speaking twice. Um, I did want to show this to you  first because it will help you to understand a lot   of stuff that's going on with this lot. So, if you  look at the first page, it says building height.   And the most confusing thing about building height  in Portsouth for most people is the Mansard roof.   There are two types of mansard roof. One is a  flat top and one is a hip top. Peter Stiffith   can correct me at any time. To measure the size  of a building, if it has a flat top mansard roof,   you go to the very top of the building all the  way to the top of the roof. If it's a flat top,   but if it's a if it's a hip topped mansard  roof, say that five times fast, you go midway,   not to the mean, but to the midway. So, in order  to judge that, you have to measure between the top   of the building and then the roof all the way up.  And then you do the math. It's the halfway point.   So, now that you understand that, I'd like you  to look at C6. And if Peter can bring that up,   that would be wonderful. And on C6,  it specifically says that building A,  

building D, and building E have a flat roof, and  therefore they have drainage put in there. Now,   I am not an engineer. Some of you are, but it's my  understanding that if you have a hip top manser,   you do not need drainage on your roof because  it's already angled. That's what a hip top is.   It has like little angles and therefore  the water runs off. But according to C6,   which is contra contradictory to what they show,  they're showing runoff drainage things. Wow,   you can't even see that. Mine's small enough, but  um they're all shown as flattop roofs. So that's   a little contradictory. Um the other thing I  wanted to just briefly go over is there's a   lot of misconception going on everywhere about  the new um SB284 which has to do with parking   and multif family units of 10 or more are still  required to have parking as the city allotss it   and that's up to 1.5 parking spaces per unit  which is not what Portsouth does but just so   you know. And the other thing about that new  law is it does not affect the guest parking or   any other parking regulations that cities have.  So the guest parking is still the same. Am I at   my three minutes? I have 5 seconds left. Um so  therefore I will be back again. Thank you very   much. Thank you. Anybody that's here or on Zoom  wishes to speak to against this application. Hello, Michelle Worth, 439 Handover Street. My  husband and I drafted this letter uh to address  

some concerns. It did not get it submitted on  time, so I'm here to read it into the record. Uh   my husband and I agree with the current direction  of the development with the relocation of the main   drive entrance being opposite Pearl Street. Thank  you. This should help with the traffic patterns.   There is adequate is there adequate clearance  for vehicles to go downhill street side for   reaching the parking in the northern corner. Is  this expected to service two-way traffic? We are   concerned about the number of parking spaces  dedicated to the development. Adequate parking   needs to be provided for all of the residential  units. The parking at Rock Street Park will get   sucked up by the overflow. The parking at Rock  Street Park is 72-hour parking to be utilized   by the neighborhood. There should probably be at  least four spaces designated as 2hour parking to   allow use of the park by those who decide to drive  there. This development should also have some   kind of pedestrian access to the foundry place  road to encourage overflow and guest parking to   utilize the garage. The current arrangement will  place more pressure on the neighborhoods limited   parking. I doubt the residents will walk all  the way around the block to access the garage.   We believe the new placement and reduction of  the footprint of building E has definitely helped   in making it less of a wall for the development  since it is now somewhat aligned with the pearl   across the street. We do have a concern with the  size of what is now designated as building C. It   is labeled in the plans as being a three-story  building similar in height to buildings B and D,   but it is shown in the elevations as three  stories plus an attic. which is it? The previous   application had a true three-story building on  that corner and it was a better transition to the  

existing two-story houses across the street. These  threetory lust attic version is going to loom over   the neighborhood on that corner since the grade is  already several feet above Rock Street. Building   B looks lost between buildings A and C on the  Rocket elevation. The attic story should be   eliminated and having the three buildings on the  corner being roughly the same height will look   much less oppressive. We still do not believe  that the downtown overlay district should have   been applied to Hanover Street portion of the  site which allows for the proposed increased   height of building E and now building C. The  DoD should be limited to the back portion of   the site the same as the north end incentive  overlay district. the back of the 361 Hannover   site does abot fund foundry place and since the  developers are taking advantage of that zoning   then they should have as much of the traffic that  is generated by this increased density access   the site via the foundry place which is fully  inside the incentive districts the developer   has been listening to the neighbors concerns  and crafting a better development adjusting the   height of building C to be three stories will  make a lasting impact. Thank you. Thank you. Hello, Mark Dorenzo, director of Butter, 349  Handover Street. Um, I wanted to talk of a few   things. Uh, they mentioned well lit, and I know  that ever since the foundry garage went in, uh,   well lit means I have trouble sleeping  at night without a full blackout blind.   uh the light that comes off the top two, three  floors of that foundry garage pours right into   my bedroom window. Now, right now, my windows  face the parking lot and I'm now going to have a  

building 47 ft tall with well-lit characteristics  uh 15 ft away from my building. It's going to   block out the sun during the day and it's going to  provide plenty of light at night. um it's going to   have a negative impact on my property, my property  value and my quality of life. I also want to touch   quickly on the what the attorney mentioned is the  right to recolocate the easement which there is a   document and it absolutely states that. However,  it states that is our agreement that we give up in   exchange for things that they give up and because  they gave up none of the things they committed to,   we have taken them to court and are going to have  this document torn up because you don't get it   where one party gives up something and the other  party gives up nothing. You'll hear more about   um what happens uh when I come back in the second  half. But um they are also required in that same   document to maintain the easement and they have  not done so. They have torn it up. They have dug   up potholes and I encourage you to walk the site.  You will see the potholes they put in place and I   watch them do it with machinery and it's to slow  vehicles down coming through but it also puts   potholes in our easement which they are required  to maintain. So I'll talk to you in the second   half. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else wish  to speak 24 against this application round one. Hi, my name is Abby Kersner. I'm at seven Mcdana  Street. Um, I'm a parent of two young kids in   the neighborhood and when I saw the height of the  building C had changed from what I had understood,   um, I was surprised by that. My main concern is  my kids biking and scootering around on their  

own and just that it's already going to be a  lot more dense, which I appreciate and that's   why I chose to live in this neighborhood. But  I think it it's excessive um and not what the   neighborhood had agreed to with the transition  from our neighborhood to the more urban district.   Thanks. Thank you. Anybody else wish to speak  too for against this application which can   include by the way the applicant if you want wish  to speak during the public hearing the same rules Robin Hustlage 27 Rock Street good evening Mr.  Chelman and planning board members, I'm speaking   tonight against the approval of the site plan for  361 Hannover Street property. When submitting a   site plan review to the Portsouth Planning Board,  a project must demonstrate compliance with the   city's site plan review regulations and related  ordinances, ensuring it fits harmoniously into the   environment while minimizing negative impacts.  That last bit is why I'm here to speak with   you tonight against approving this current site  plan as submitted. This latest version of their   design plan has intensified building C, which  was previously three stories with a mean height   of 36 ft and a roof line similar to those seen  in abuing properties. This newest version adds   an extra story of height with the addition of the  barn-like mansered roof. So now building C looks   to be as tall as the proposed Heinman building  that's fully four stories and joins building E by   towering 15 to 20 ft over the top of the roofs  of immediately abudding properties negatively   impacting our light and views and dramatically  altering the character of our neighborhood.   Building C will be an eyes sore sticking out  in the middle of our little neighborhood.  

Additionally, this application is missing very  important updated renderings of streetscape views   from Pearl, Hannover Rock, and Sudbury Streets to  show the true impact that this significant change   and others that were made since the last time  you saw this proposal's design will have on our   neighborhood. This proposed development definitely  does not fit harmoniously into our neighborhood,   the environment of our neighborhood, which is  smallcale historic neighborhood. nor does it   minimize negative impacts. I ask you to postpone  your review of this site plan and request that   the applicant provide streetscape renderings of  this latest proposed development's design so that   you can fully evaluate the impact it will have on  our neighborhood. Thank you very much. Thank you. Hello, I'm Bin Waldwick. I live at 30 Parker  Street with my wife and uh two kids under three.   This development is is basically right on the path  between our house and the Rock Street Park where   we spend an hour a day like uh two or three times  a day probably uh with our kids. Our main concerns   about the development from the beginning have been  about safety uh with with traffic a main component   of that a as well as the way that the aesthetics  and the size and the density of this development   fit into the immediately abuing neighborhood.  You talk about uh the interfaces between sort of   small neighborhoods and where the downtown meets  those neighborhoods. This is one of those thin   layers where there's it's a street that's not  even a real street. It's a small street that   separates this development from the adjoining  houses. A lot of what we had hoped for was that   the traffic from this development could feed  onto Foundry Place, which from our perspective   is sort of why the zoning is the way it is  because it connects to Foundry Place. So,  

if the cars and the traffic, and I think it's  a great point that's brought up that it it's   understood maybe it's hard to get the cars and the  traffic from the development onto Foundry Place,   but why is there no pedestrian access? That's  made it easier for people to use the garage,   which I think is the point of the garage for  people to park there and be able to to filter   into the neighborhood. And it's it's it's one  thing to listen to people saying that, it's   another thing to actually create architecture that  supports those goals. And it from our perspective   it feels like this it's not really been done  and this plan especially does not achieve that   uh as we've asked. They get the zoning but they  don't they don't use the resource of foundry place   which is a thoroughare where the traffic could  easily go. The other the other thing is the size   and scale of the development as it relates to the  surrounding neighborhood. Um I think building C   is a is the best example of this that earlier in  the process it was it it was made smaller and it   was three stories tall and this is right across  the street from colonial houses where the like uh   you know people the reason why Portsouth is great  is because people maintain these old houses and it   takes it's not like it doesn't happen magically.  It's individuals who put time and and sweat   into making it a great place to live because they  love these beautiful old houses. And now the plan   feels like there's this hulking building that's  going to be one street away that is, you know,   twice as many stories as these old houses.  And it's it's almost like the antithesis of   complenting what's there or or being harmonious.  A lot of what we wanted as a neighborhood was for   there to be this step down between between  the the the part of this development that's   more downtown coming down handover to the  smaller houses and it feels like as it stands   that is almost kind of went back in the other  direction. So for for that reason I'm asking  

that you uh reject this proposal as it stands.  Thank you. Thank you. End of the first round. Hi, I'm Marcy Vaughn. I live at 407 Handover  Street and I agree with Mr. Bosen. This has been   quite an odyssey. Um, I do want to correct  the record on one thing he said though. He   characterized our neighborhood as a people who  don't like change. And that's not true. Um,   our house, my house at 407 Handover stood there  for 250 years. And what Sean and I love about it   so much is that the world has changed around  it and it stayed. We've always known that   the Heineman lot would be developed and we invite  that. We are excited about that. The problem that   has occurred here has been that the city failed  to respond and respect our neighborhood's rights.   So, the property is improperly zoned. And I  want to really acknowledge Mr. Wilson and his   team for doing a lot of work to change their  original plan and make it more palatable and   I appreciate that and they've done a really  good job. Um, there are a couple of concerns   that I have. Our house is the one if you if  you don't know exactly where it is, it spans   the length of Rock Street in between Sudbury and  Hanover. We're right across the street. So we are   that house that's the sort of transition where  there is no transition. So my two concerns are   um as a number of my neighbors have said  the size of building C. I was surprised to   see this plan. It's different than what I saw  before which I supported. Um but this is over   20 feet above my house really hulking down  on it and it's not a three-story anymore. So  

that's of concern to me. Um the second issue  is privacy. Um so our property, like I said,   it spans the length of those two streets. It's a  full block. And um what makes our house special   really and unique and particularly valuable  is that our yard is big. It's most of our   property is a yard and it's very very private.  It's surrounded by a six-foot fence and that's   depicted in the record. There are various diagrams  of our yard, various photographs of that fence.   It's incredibly unique really and we value that  privacy. And what concerns me are that there   are five decks that now look in to our yard and  that privacy is going to be gone. that's going   to diminish our property value significantly and  I think that this is something the board should   address and I think I'll be back at round two to  talk about that some more. Thank you. Thank you. We have the first round speakers. Hi. Uh my name is Steve Wilson. I'm the applicant.  I just made a list of the things that we some of   the things we just heard here and I'll try to  bang through some of them. The first one was how   you measure Mansard Hiptop Mansard roof. Uh we  built 143 Daniel Street uh Maplewood Avenue and   uh the C the conversion of the cabin building  to Novvicure. They use the we use the same   methodology to measure the mansard roofs for those  buildings. Those are three-story buildings with a   space under the attic. So, I think Peter could  could reassure you that that what was said here   was complete misinterpretation of the code and the  notes to that are actually on the town map. Second  

item was our parking is almost 1.6 spaces per  unit. So, the discussion about the state statute   etc. We've exceeded that. Hill Street has not  been noted on the plan or noted as an access   e or egress from our property. It's uh considered  to be a private way, not accessible to us. Uh the   the discussion of access to the garage from our  property to get down to Foundry into the garage.   We don't own any frontage on Foundry, only where  the last chance garage is. And that's a whole   story above the street. There's no opportunity  for that. But there is a pedestrian access on   the side of Foundry Place directly adjacent to  our property. So if one of our customers had to   get from or guests or whatever had to get from  Hill Street to the found that's the pedestrian   access and you you approved that plan I think for  that reason. All of our buildings are threetory.   The addition of the Gamrell of the Gamrell  roof was to try to get away from having three   identical roofs in a row. It is three feet  taller than the previous illustration,   but it's not significant. It went from 36 to  39. I think the record would hold that out. Um,   it's also not a full story of habitable full  story. It's a half story and would have a room   or bedroom in it. Uh the DoD does not dictate  elevation of buildings at all. The DoD has been   relieved from this site by uh by the zoning board.  Um we went from our original proposal here which   was 52 units down to 40 units and the density is  commensurate with everything in the neighborhood   with the exception of Robin's house. They're all  we're in the median density. These houses don't  

none of them comply with the zoning. they have no  land with them and that's why they they need us to   use our parking on site or provide more parking.  So as sensitivity to that, we've provided more   parking than ordinarily. So we're not competing  with the spaces at the playground or in the   neighborhood. So I got I got through six. I'll be  back. Thank you. Any other first round speakers? Thank you. We can pass if you want. Yeah,  we can pass them around. I can pass. Thank you. My name is Dale Soul, excuse me, and I'm a  director about butter at 349 handover. And   I'm not going to believe or um anything.  What's been said I agree with entirely. I   just want to throw a couple numbers out for the  actual heights of the buildings we're talking   about. I I think it's kind of interesting.  According to the new new designs, building AC,   C and D will be 48 feet 5 in. Now, that's from  the base of the building to the peak. That   doesn't take into account the the way you build  it, where you don't count the attic and all that   stuff that I really don't understand. That's the  actual height of the building from the ground.   I have which I gave to you uh worksheets that show  21 home of the abiding homes in the area with an  

average height of 24 ft. These buildings are 48t  5 in as I said twice as tall as the average of 21   buildings in the neighborhood. Robin's house is  24 feet. She's going to be looking at a building   that is over twice as tall as her building, as  will other people. I don't think this is proper   for the neighborhood. I think that the heights  are far too big. It'll be a huge impact on the   neighborhood. If you drive up the street and it  look like a something that doesn't belong there,   which it doesn't belong there. It's not  in keeping with the character. They're   just too tall. They're too big. They're too  massive. and they diminish our neighborhood   tremendously. I believe I would appreciate  if someone would take a look at the heights,   think about it, think about what it's going to  look like, think about living there, and and see   if we can't make those buildings shorter. Thank  you. Thank you. Any other first round speakers? Yes. Good evening. I'm Terrence Parker,  landscape architect. I just want to point   out that on the Rock Street handover corner  there's uh on the city portion of the there's   a fair amount of landscape materials. Um  it's between a power line and the that that   um west facing facade of building C and the  trees there get to be 40 or 60 ft and some of the   u the red cedars get to be you know 20 or 30 feet.  So, I'm just pointing out that there are there are   ways that we're trying to alleviate the concerns  of the abutters as they look at the um the corner   of Hanover and Rock Street. Thank you. Thank  you. Any other first round speakers? Anybody on  

Zoom? Uh there are two people. If you're on Zoom  and would like to speak, please raise your hand. Last call for first round speakers. The  first round speakers. Second round speakers. Good evening. Elizabeth Brder, property owner  159, except Down Street. I would tend I would   contend that the plan set that's been  presented is not does not include all   the proper information that you need in order  to be able to make a good decision in regards   to this site plan review. First, I would submit  the highlighted information about Mansard roofs   and the fact that they show a flat Mansard roof  as part of their plan on C6. I would also like   to contend that if you look at building A on  plan 2 A21A which is on page 352 of the packet   um that they show hiptop towers underneath the  Mansard roof. Now it's my understanding that that   is going to be corrected. If they stay the way  they are it is a violation of zoning because now   it's a fourth floor there. It's not part of the  Mansard roof. So, that's going to be adjusted, I   was told, and I'd like it put into the record that  that needs to be corrected on their paperwork so   that the plan set actually shows the Mansard roof  going all the way to the edge and not stopping at   those towers. TAC discussed many things that were  brought forward in your um staff memo. Hopefully,   you got a chance to read them along with the  other thousands of pages you had to read.   One of the things that was brought forward  is that there were eight guest parking spaces   required for this development. The DoD, which  is the downtown overlay district, allowed them  

to remove four. However, they stated on page 60  of their opening paragraphs that there are two   external spaces and two internal spaces. This  was the question that TAC had for you and that   is is it okay for them to have two guest parking  inside building A? And the questions that I have   for you is will all the residents there be able  to access that parking lot for their guests? And   it I only noticed one external parking space and  that's going to be used as a loading zone as well,   which is a great idea until there's a guest there  for lunch and the prime guy shows up to deliver   something and now he's parked in the middle of the  thoroughare that people are going to be using to   get back and forth um from Hill Street to their  thing. The other thing of concern is that these   buildings are really close together. And if you  look, they're between four and six feet. One of   them has a little building C, I believe it is, has  a little outhang that makes that width only about   four feet wide. So, although the fire department  said if they sprinkled those buildings, and I   don't know if they're going to do that because  it doesn't I couldn't find it in the plans,   but I didn't have time to read all 600 pages or  450 pages, whatever it was. But you could never   put a ladder in there to fix anything. If a window  breaks, if the cat gets stuck there, if the fire   department has to get up with a ladder, you are  not going to get a ladder on a six-foot angle and   be able to access those buildings. So that's an  area of concern. Um it was stated um if you look   at the elevations report for Rock Street on A20  82.0 on page 351 of the packet, it shows you that  

there's zero elevation there. But if you stand on  Rock Street and you look at the Heineman building,   it's about three feet up to that landing. They  show the sidewalk being level there. So, are they   going to be doing some removal of land there?  Um, how are they going to make that level? The   other question is is they don't show any steps.  Currently, there are steps there that go between   Rock Street and their parking lot, and that would  be a way that people could access Foundry Place,   but they're not they don't show any steps there  at all. At least I didn't find any, but I'm not   an expert on reading this. The other question is  about the easement plan which is on page 337. It   shows it in blue. It shows lot one's driveway is  going to come across around the corner. And when   I measured it using the interesting measurement  system that I use to measure things on a computer,   um it's going to be less than 10 ft wide and  it's on a corner. So, I'm not really sure how   the cars coming out from lot one are going to  be able to make that corner and not drive on   the neighbor's lot for which I don't believe they  have an easement. So, again, you're back to the   easements. So, I feel strongly that they need to  clean up some of their stuff in this presentation.   Um, I believe the easements are an issue and  they are something that you could say it goes   on hold until that's resolved. Um, and the other  thing that I'd like to see is about the a gate,   a possible gate. Thank you. Thank  you. Any other second round speakers? Thank you.

I can pass. You need to keep Mark Dorenzo again, 349 Canover Street, Director  Butter, uh, Chairman, Shelman, members of the   planning board. Um, couple concerns I have in  here. For 25 years, people have driven from   Hannover Street through the parking lot to Hill  Street through to Bridge Street and vice versa,   myself included. Uh, this proposed property adds  66 parking spaces, which means up to 66 vehicles   will have the potential choice to enter and exit  their property via Hill Street and the private   way, even though no such legal easement exists.  As Mr. Wilson just noted granting them that right.   However, you have two openings and as we all know,  human nature, you're going to take the path of   least resistance and the quickest route to your  end destination. We've done it for 25 years. Um,   no traffic studies have been conducted that  even mention the existence of Hill Street.   I show the diagram below on the same page, which  is the traffic study, and Hill Street oddly does   not even exist. Uh so this was not taken into  consideration. Um the developers of 361 Hammer   Street have not expressed how they intend to stop  their residents from traveling that route which at   the same time must remain open and available  to the properties of budding them which have   been granted an easement. So that's going to  be a tricky thing to figure out but that needs   to be addressed otherwise you're going to have  potentially 66 additional cars zipping down past   wires pub onto Bridge Street. The um second item  I'd like to bring up is the easement plan as shown   on page 285 which in its current uh definition is  not acceptable. A large portion of the easement   I've dotted it as a yellow circle uh for 349  handover is missing and needs to be added back  

in because you cannot drive through a six or 7  foot area of land and not pass over that open   area. Um so it needs to be added in. So, as part  as is part of the turning radius of the vehicle   backing out of their driveway, it appears to have  been overlooked on the drawings. Additionally,   as I show in red, as cars back out, both from  our property and from underneath the building,   there exists a high risk of two vehicles on  opposes the fence backing out into one another due   to no visibility of the other vehicle. Uh, the TAC  mentioned this concern July 1st and we're assured   that it would be changed. It has not been altered.  All six, all five spots in a row stay there.   Uh, if you go to the next page, the original  right-of-way easement provided to Hillover Group   LLC and also Handover Place condominiums, 349  Hanover Street in site plan D37416 dated May 3rd,   2007 shows a path granting unimpeded access  along the fence from Hill Street to Hanover   Street. Obviously, as the parking lot for  361 Hanover Street was later developed,   the curbs were added, the parking spaces  alongside Hannover Street were added.   um that would had to be altered. So the easement  path as the document stated was altered and the   path now shows what I show here in yellow. That is  the current easement path we have been granted. It   has been this way for over 20 years. If you go to  the next page, in the amended easement agreement   reached at the emergency injunction hearing  on May 21st, 2025, you were sent this document   uh a few days ago by attorney John Lions. It was  signed and agreed by both parties. Mr. Forsley   was one of the signatories, as was I, that  number three, the defendant shall not degrade,   alter diminish the pavement in the claimed  easement from its current condition. And that   is the current claimed easement. Number five,  no party shall park or obstruct the claimed  

easement during the pendency of this lawsuit.  This was approved and so ordered by the honorable   David R. Roof on July 14th, 2025. This has been  entered into law. You go to the next page. When   you overlay the claimed easement as agreed upon  with the new construction drawings, you can see   that no development or equipment and materials of  development for building E and possibly building   D can occur in the area shown below until at least  15 months from now. As a trial is currently set to   begin after November 2nd of 2026. I therefore  recommend that the planning board put on this   project on hold until such time as the trial is  resolved as no construction can be done in that   area. They have signed an agreement stating  they will not. Thank you for your time. Any   questions you have of me? We don't do questions  during public hearing. Thank you. Thank you. Any other second round speakers? Okay. So, I added a few more uh comments here.  Steve Wilson, one of the co-owner of the property.   Um build, as I said earlier, building C has gone  from a roof height of 36 feet measured to the mean   elevation of the roof to 39 ft. So it has been  increased 39 ft. It's still well under what what   is allowed in the district. It's the Rock Street  foundry place pedestrian exit. I already mentioned   the degradation of the hottop and the parking  lot is twofold. We dug some test pits in the  

parking lot and backfilled them. And so there are  some shallow potholes there. I drive through them   every day. There's there's many opportunities  to get around the potholes. We haven't blocked   off any of the driveway. And since I'm talking  about the potholes in this lawsuit, the lawsuit   uh claims that the other three buildings on uh  Hill Street have access through our property,   which is untrue. When I bought the property, it  had no through traffic signs displayed on the end   of the building. It still does. The shortcut  from Dwire's Pub to Handover Pearl Street is   the shortcut that everybody's shooting for. Um it  there are people coming through there. Uh we have   no right to go the other way. We intend to install  signs that that uh preclude our residents from   driving down that way. Um the uh the agreement  that we came up was not was not an emergency   injunction. We just agreed not to diminish  their ability to drive through relating to   the existing easement. And the existing easement  we will not uh uh we will enforce. They'll be   able to come through the property. Our site plan  doesn't diminish that pre or post construction.   And the uh the uh corner of the building that the  TAC was talking about was the other corner of the   building, not this one. There's plenty of sight  distance to back out of our garages safely into   a 22 or 24 foot wide travel way unless somebody's  driving recklessly. There should not be a problem.   None was cited by the TAC. Um, the driveway from  lot A is 14 feet wide at its narrowest point,   not 10 feet, it's 14 feet. You can see it on  the plan. It's served as the driveway for that  

building for a long time. And if we can't get  that driveway through there, how do we get the   condo people drive through there? Are they better  drivers or uh or just special? And uh we we've had   no problem with our neighbors until they joined  this uh frivolous what I call a frivolous lawsuit.   It's a and it's an attempt to defer the project  and I think uh attorney Bowzen has spoken to   that. Um these buildings are significantly lower  than the code allows. We have tried to terrace the   property down to the existing neighborhood and the  selective measurement of buildings. Yeah. A lot   of the houses in the Rock Street neighborhood  are 24, 26, 28. They're not all 24, but the   house across the street from the intersection of  Rock Street is probably 34 feet. The Pearl is 40   something ft. The building where they live,  the person who was giving this information,   is 36 feet, just about the same distance as  measured as our building E. So, so I think   it's a misrepresentation of this. Uh, so thank you  very much and I hope you won't let this inaccurate   information stand in the way of what I think  is a very good project. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, I'm Marcy Vaughn 407 Handover and I I I  will second what Mr. Wilson said. There's a   lot about this project that's really good. I think  I think they've done a really good job on a lot of   aspects of it. The two things that I mentioned  before though I do want to revisit. The first   is the height of building C. I don't know all  these like fancy measuring things you guys do,  

but it's 48 feet. That's like the way it measures  from the bottom to the top and it's 20 feet taller   than my house which is right across the street and  it's different than what it was in the last plan   and I I'm confused by that and I think that should  be addressed. Um the second issue is the privacy.   Um five balconies peering into my yard. Um, the  landscape architect mentioned trees growing to   50 or 60 feet, which would be fantastic, but I  will be dead by the time a tree grows to 50 feet   across the street from my house. Let's face it.  Um, and so what I'm asking for tonight is that   if the board does grant this um, approval that  you do so on a conditional basis and that that   conditional basis take into consideration the  height of the building across the street from   my house and the impediments to my privacy. You  have the authority to do that under RSA 6764,   authority to grant conditional approval. You  have authority to require measures that guard   abunders like me against nuisances. That's RSA  67444. And then I believe under section 1.1E   of our site plan regulations, you have a duty  to impose conditions that protect my privacy,   that protect against nuisances. So I don't know  precisely what those conditions would be. Um,   but obviously they should be measurable and they  should be precise and they should be designed to   protect privacy and tailor this project a little  more accurately to the property directly across   the street where I live. Um, and again, I do  want to reiterate, I really acknowledge the   great work they've done, but I live there,  too. And you have a duty to protect us from  

nuisances. I hope you'll do that. Thank you.  Thank you. Any other second round speakers? Hello, Brenn Waldwick. I live at 30  Parker Street. Um I I just wanted   to briefly address the idea that the the  neighbors fear change or or sort of like   uh you know questioning the motivations behind  why we're all here speaking to this project. Um   I I think like whether we whether we fear change  or not, it feels like change comes for us all when   you live in Portsouth. I I trust many of you  have walked around this neighborhood and I I   I think it's safe to say that close to downtown,  we probably have borne the brunt of development   that's been taking place over the last five or  so years, which I which is all that I can speak   to cuz that's as long as I was here. But there's  there's been numerous developments, very large   buildings that didn't look like anything that was  there before. Uh and that's not even talking about   the parking garage that was there. That sounds  like it was a whole saga or odyssey or whatever   you want to call it. I wasn't even here for  that, but it's sounds like it was exciting. Uh, but it's there's sort of only so much you can do before  it it undermines what's already there. And the   reason why people want to live here and the reason  why I moved here or the reason why my neighbors   moved here. And I think I mean, we've all been to  countless of these meetings. I've been to several.   My wife has been to several. And most of the  people speaking have been to that number combined.   And it's not because we fear change. It's because  we care about the neighborhood and it's important   to us. And it feels like it's it's it's a little  hard to know what to do because at this point  

it feels like we're almost negotiating against  ourselves because all of a sudden there building   C is is not what it was before. I feel like it  it was sort of getting to something where there   were these lower town houses that fit a little bit  more with the surroundings. And what we all wanted   was a step down from the downtown look and feel  like on Maplewood all the way down to basically   uh Rock Street. And now it feels like we're  sort of rat holeing into this building se of   how tall it is. But the only reason that is  even happening is because it was changed from   what it was a few meetings ago where we were all  spending all this time putting all of our care   into talking about what's important to us about  the neighborhood. Um, all that to say, I mean,   I I just I just don't think it should be accepted  as it is because I don't think it it it respects   the neighbors. it respects uh sort of what is good  for the neighborhood and I don't think it's sort   of sending this area of the city in the right  direction if you can if you can sort of build   whatever you want without any any attention  to what's around and I I think that's what   the neighbors are trying to speak about. It's not  about that we fear change. It's just that we want   something that is sustainable and sort of fits the  fits the template of what the neighborhood could   be in the future. like these these aren't going to  be units that are it's more housing, but it's it's   probably going to be a lot of speculators that buy  that buy houses like that. And that's that's not   really what is going to be good for us. It's it's  not going to feel like a neighborhood. It's just   going to feel like a an investment opportunity.  And I I think that's what most of us are trying   to say. Uh and uh we thank you for all your  hard work, too. I appreciate it. Thank you. Any other second round speakers?

Going to close the second  round. Any third round speakers? Mark Lorenzo, 349 Hanover Street. I need to  correct one statement. Um, Mr. Wilson just stated,   quote, "It wasn't an emergency injunction.  That is a lie. This man has a problem with   honesty periodically, which is why the neighbors  are upset. We can't trust a thing out of their   mouth." So, I'm happy to share the court documents  with you where it states emergency injunction. If   you'd like, please let me know. I will email it to  Mr. Stith. Um, I will show you the court ruling,   the documents, anything you need. But  I can't allow lies to go unanswered. Any other third round speakers? Last call. Any other third round  speakers? A close public hearing. Board discussion. Yes, Bill. I'd like to ask  Peter as a matter of fact to confirm that the Get rid of to confirm that the uh buildings  as shown to us tonight conform to the zoning   requirements for the lots that they're on  and that that they were in front of TAC.   Uh that that they conform to the zoning  uh requirements in terms of height. Yes.

Yeah. Sorry. Um the the the site plan  approval there's recommended conditions of   uh any easement plans and deeds be recorded at  the registry of deeds by the city or as deemed   appropriate by the planning department. any  easements, plans, and deeds. Are those just   are we talking about those granted to the  city because we we we are going to need   those to access some of the uh infrastructure  and so forth, right? Those will be those types.   Sometimes there are also private easements that  go along with developments and we ensure that   those are recorded as well. Okay? So, if for some  reason those weren't the um site plan approval, what happens? Well, those easements would  be tied to the site plan approval. I mean,   if if the easements aren't if we don't record the  easements, then the site plan won't get recorded.   Those have to be um executed before we record the  site plan. And then it all gets recorded together. And this could happen post construction.  No, that happens before building permits   issued. Okay. So all these unless unless the  condition specifically says like before a co   um that can happen later but the conditions  precedent to uh issuing a building permit have   to be satisfied prior to a building  permit being issued. Thank you. Y yes, Bill. Am I also right that  if we did this with a condition  

of approval or some such phrasiology  that related to the easement that that   essentially puts it off till the  court can make such a determination. Uh such a condition could be crafted. It would  be a really bad idea. It's not our purview. We   have a application that's been presented to us  with a representation. There's a discussion and   an argument in court about what's been done to  it and what may happen to it in the future. But   um they are showing what they represent to us,  which is what we have to act on an easement that   they've relocated. It provides access for lot one.  It provides access for the condominium next door   to the way they've shown it. Um, if you don't  like the way it's been shown because of a truck   access issue or something like that, please say  something. But, um, you know, the fact that there   is a an agreement endorsed by the court means  it is a binding agreement. But also these things   there could be a a settlement before November, you  know, the end of 2026. Those things that happens   as well. It may not be a settlement. It may it  may blow things up. You know, that's the nature of   litigation. But in terms of what we have in front  of us, um I think we have enough to act. Now,   how board feels about it is how the board feels  about it. I'm not trying to sway the board on that   issue, but it's it's it's not something we're not  judges. So, yes, Joe. Well, how I feel about it   is every application that we see has easements  shown that that are assumed to be successful   at some point. We see easements all of the time  proposed on plants on almost every project that  

we look at. Um if any project that comes before  us is unsuccessful in getting that easement,   it stops a project. It's not just easements. It  it can be any representation made to this board.   There was an application. I won't talk about it in  particular, but there was a deed covenant that um   came up at the meeting that was of a concern that  was said it wasn't a concern. Well, it turns out   it was a concern, right? And it had to be dealt  with. Um if if Mr. Shagnun shows a property line   and a neighbor, even not at this meeting, turns  out they think they own a 15oot strip that goes   through the lot that he missed. Well, that can  get litigated and that could affect an approval.   But we we have to act on the rep what's been  represented to us. Agreed. Agreed. Logan, I just   had a couple things I wanted to note. Um first, uh  with respect to lighting, um um we've got a really   detailed plan here, and I think I have all the  answers uh in what I'm seeing, but um you know,   there's like a detailed layout of all the foot  candles on the plan. We've got a lot of details   about the lighting being shielded from uplighting,  dark sky compliance, etc. Um maybe just a note,   not an additional requirement, but um some of the  neighbors pointed out they were concerned about   lights into their window. I think some of the  dark sky compliance and shielding answers that,   but it's maybe not as obvious as say the uh shoot  C7, the lighting plan um showing the light levels   at ground level. Um, so maybe just something to  consider for future applications or for this going   forward, making it more obvious how that lighting  would apply to someone not standing on the   pavement. Um, and another just kind of a note, I  know at previous I think design consultations that   were were public hearings, there was a mention  of this whole sidewalk getting the foundry place  

and the fact that the city of Portsouth owns  this weird U-shaped little bit of land. Uh,   maybe a suggestion to the city. I know they  recently put in a sidewalk to my neighborhood   which I greatly appreciate uh and has helped  our little neighborhood out quite a bit. Um,   you know, obviously there is access to foundry  place by going out and around, but to the point   that someone made a direct path is generally  easier if the city were able to find some sort of   uh way to put a pathway directly through this what  appears to be relatively useless piece of land   uh to Foundry Place that might help everyone  out of the neighborhood uh the applicant,   the neighbors, etc. Um, just a thought. Nothing  the applicant can do about that obviously,   but perhaps something that the city could  look at to enable uh the neighborhood to   better use their space. Part of the history of  this project, we did have a sidewalk, I think,   before you came on, I believe. Yes. Yeah.  And uh there's quite a grade change out   back. There have to be steps or something.  Yeah. And there's a retaining wall there,   right? There's a retaining wall that needs help  back there. And um and as I understand there's a   lot of utilities in in the ground at that location  as well. So it's it it's not easy as you know we   did look at that when we were on site talked about  it. Sure. Yeah. I mean if if the retaining wall in   fact does need some sort of reconstruction in the  near future perhaps uh that can be incorporated.   I get your I get your point. It's not it's it's  not low hanging it's not low hanging fruit from   what I Oh no no no I'm I'm I mean even from the  utility plan here you can see how busy it is. So any other we we have a we have two things.  We have a two lot subdivision and then we   have a site plan. Do you want to proceed with the  subdivision first? Make a motion to vote find the  

subdivision application meets the requirements  set forth in the subdivision regulations of   adopt the findings of facts as presented.  Second discussion it's on the findings. All those in favor I any opposed? Mr. Chairman, uh motion we vote to grant  the preliminary and final subdivision   approval with the following stipulations  2.1, 2.2, and 2.3. Second discussion. I don't think there's any concern  about the subdivision portion of this   specifically. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? We want to make a motion. We can discuss details. Here are your options. You can vote to  proceed to approve it. You can vote to   deny. You can vote to postpone  it if there's a reason to do so. But we can't do nothing. That is  actually statutoily not allowed. Mr. Chairman, I motion we vote to find  that the site plan application meets   the requirements set forth in the site  plan regulations section 2.9 evaluation   criteria and adopt the findings and facts  as presented. I'd second. Discussion on   the findings. All those in favor?  I. Any opposed? Findings adopted. Mr. Chairman, I move we vote to  grant the site plan approval with  

the following conditions. 2.1, 2.2, 2.3,  2.4, 2.5, 2.6, and 2.7. Second discussion. I think there were some neighborhood points  made tonight. Uh I just want to say I know   there's been some talk about changing the  zoning. A lot of talk about it and there   were discussions some years ago. I'm not sure  what happened those discussions. We are bound   by the regulations in place and um some of the  issues that were brought up. If there was a true something that rose above the requirements of  zoning, there is some authority to do things,   but I personally don't see that. I I  appreciate the neighborhood's concerns,   but based on the zoning, I think it  complies. That's my personal opinion. Any discussion? That's my  opinion as well. Chairman,   I'd also say that one of the conditions being  the construction management plan. I mean,   that's going to be key. As the neighborhood's  pointed out, this has a big impact on them.   And I think honestly the installation if it  were to go forward would be maybe the most   uh difficult portion. So, adherence with  those conditions would be vital. I agree. Those in favor? I. Any opposed?

Would folks like to have a 10-minute break?  Yes, please. Let's have a 10-minute break.

Call the meeting back to order. Next item on  the agenda is request to Bramley Portsouth LLC   as owner for property at 1465 Woodbury Avenue.  Requesting conditional use permit from section   105B4110 for development site. A conditional  use permit from section 10440. Use 1940 for   a drive-through facility and site plan review  approval for the construction of a 2847 foot   singlestory banking facility with drive-through  and associated site improvements including   parking, lighting, landscaping, pedestrian access,  utility infrastructure, storm water management,   and so forth. Property is located in Cessors Map  216, lot three and lies in the gateway corridor G1   district. Who is here to present this application?  Good evening. Uh Neil Hansen with Tyan Bond. Um be   presenting the project this evening. Uh so it's  the application that's before you is uh as was   just read in is a site site plan review and then  two conditional use permit requests. Uh one for   the development site conditional use permit uh  for having more than one principal building on   a site and then a conditional use permit for the  uh installation of a drive-through facility. Uh   so the proposed project is a is a bank pad uh  which will be located at the Woodbury A Market   Basket Plaza. Uh the existing condition plan  that's on the screen has the what is the one   of the two main entrances to the plaza. This  is the intersection with Woodberry and Arthur   Fra Drive. Uh entering the site, you got Wendy's  on the left here and then the vacant parcel to   the right which is where the proposed project  is is planned. If you go to the next sheet,   uh so this is just an existing condition and also  labeled as demolition plan. Although there's not   much demolition involved with this project. Uh  this does have the proposed footprint of the   building overlaid on that ex existing condition  plan to show where it it's planned to be cited   within that uh vacant piece of land there at  the corner. Have you go to the next sheet there,   Peter? Um so for the proposed site layout, we're  we're planning a two or an entrance and an exit of  

two-way drive coming off of the parking lot drive  aisle uh into the the bank plaza. Uh we'll then   have some parking spaces at the front of the um  what will be the main entrance to the bank which   is located on the front corner of the proposed  footprint. Uh there's then a one-way access   drive around to the rear of the or what will  be the rear of the bank plaza. There's then a   uh exit only back into the plaza. And then if  you go left, this is where the drive-thru for the   ATM window will be uh with a bypass lane and then  the circulation back out into the into the plaza.   Uh we have uh I believe the bank footprint is at  just over 2,800 square feet. Uh and as part of   this development, we are adding uh 13 uh parking  spaces uh surrounding the bank area. There's   the nine in the front. Uh and then there's four  spaces in the back and the spaces the four spaces   in the rear are more intended we we envision for  employee parking. Uh our our dumpster enclosure is   also located around the rear of the site here. So  trash trash truck entrance would come in through   uh the oneway drive for the pickup and then  out. Uh that will have a fenced enclosure   uh to be screened from from Woodberry a if you  go to the next sheet which is our grading and   drainage plan. So all of the uh all of the runoff  surface runoff from the the proposed development   area will ultimately flow to what is going to  be a new uh rain garden here at the corner. Um   through the TAC process, they had asked us to  to try and uh look at saving these two existing   trees that are along this entrance drive. So  we're able to grade the footprint of that rain   garden in in such a way that we could keep those  two trees there. Um surface runoff from from the   uh south half of the site the right of this  plan will will initially drain off into this   detention basin and then will be piped around to  the front. Um and then the front half of the site  

will will surface runoff into this for bay and  then into the uh rain garden. All of the flows   for the site are being reduced and they will  discharge onto the existing on-site drainage   system which then eventually throw flows through  the parcel and discharges out to the northeast   uh behind the uh existing shopping center. Uh  the next sheet is our utility plan. Um we have   our uh water and gas connections coming off of  Woodbury A. We're connecting our sewer to the   uh city sewer main that runs through the plaza  and then electric will be served overhead across   Woodbury and then uh underground from there into  the building. Uh as part of the development site   conditional use permit, we are required to  provide uh 10% community space over the entire   property. Uh so this plan is a uh a permitting  level easement plan. So this will be converted   to a recordable easement plan uh upon our hopeful  approval this evening and will be recorded for uh   community space on the site. The entire parcel is  is just under 19 acres. So this represents almost   2 acres of community space area on the parcel.  Uh further in the packet we have a uh a plan   that depicts how we intend to improve these  spaces to meet the community space definition   um of of park area. So, we have a couple seating  areas that are are proposed uh around the existing   Wendy's facility. We have a few walking paths and  benches along this front um area along Woodbury   and then an additional seating area up to the  south end of the site here by Market Basket.   Uh as part of the uh submission package, we  had also included a traffic study, which is a   uh requirement under the um drive-thru conditional  use permit. Um and then we also included some  

architectural renderings. Uh our architecture team  is here if there's any questions uh in regards to   the the building um or the landscaping plan which  they they also prepared as part of this package.   And that is all I have and we'd be happy to  answer any questions. Questions of the applicant. Can you go into a bit more detail about  the community space and how it's going   to be welcoming and useful as community space?  Sure. You Yeah, there we go, Peter. Thank you. So, there's a there's there's a few different  areas within within the larger site that have   have been designated as community space and  we've we've looked to program each of them. Um,   and these sort of blowups show the the various  areas. So around the the this is the existing   Wendy's building. And we have a couple um seating  areas that have been have been programmed here.   One in this corner with a couple picnic tables  and some some uh landscaping. And then this uh   sort of entrance uh lawn area. Uh we've added a  uh a walking path with some seating benches and   some additional landscaping as well. Uh same  thing to the south of the bank here. We've   added a couple of sidewalk or connections to  the existing sidewalk out of Woodbury through   the site and another small seating area. And  then over here by Market Basket is a a larger   um a larger space with a few picnic tables  uh that that could be used for, you know,   people to go buy lunch at Market Basket and  be able to use that area um as a seating area. As followup, is there any chance you  might want to do a bit more screening,   especially where the Wendy's is along  Woodbury A? It seems like it would be   a little more inviting if there was a little  more sort of screening of greenery or something  

going along the street. Yeah. Um Pier, could  you go to the next sheet? I believe it is. So, this is hard to see. Um, but the this is  sort of a key plan of of this of this landscaping   and the existing vegetation to remain is is  circled in blue. So these that tree, that tree,   a couple of these are are existing vegetation and  then the I believe that's a yellow uh key are all   new plantings. So there are three new plantings  along the corner there. There's there's a smaller   ring of plantings around this seating area.  And then same thing around the entrance here.   These these trees on the corner and then down  the streetscape of the bank is all is all new   planting. And then same thing this corner. These  three trees are new. These are existing groves of   trees. So we have added uh new landscaping to to  intersperse with the existing landscaping that's   already there. Okay. I still think there could  be more, but that's just me. And we are providing   an uh almost two acres of landscaping for a  development site that is under an acre just by   the nature of having a 20 acre parcel. But this is  a 19 acre parcel that's been basically not taken   care of very well for a very long time. So you  need to kind of do that now. Oh, uh, your your   entrance at at Commerce Way and the restaurant  lounge building there. Was that considered as   a potential site for the bank? If it was, it  was before I was involved with this project. Seems to me that, you know, we have this  nice grassy area in front of the plaza,   and I don't know what that used to be. that  predates me. That that old schoolhouse. Oh,   it's the live. Yeah, the schoolhouse restaurant.  Schoolhouse restaurant. Yeah, that's part of this  

property, right? Old the same address, right? That  really seems to like something needs to happen   there desperately in a you know, to your point of  uh property that really has not been kept up very   well. Um, and in addition, your your traffic  flows at the Market and Woodbury intersection   that that entrance way there, especially for  people trying to leave out of your parking lot,   that the traffic lows are well, they just  don't exist really. Like, has there any   thought at all given to improvements that could  be made there? Not as part of this project. No. Could you talk about the pedestrian circulation  a little bit, Neil? I know on a pad project,   it's this is classic pad design. Um, I'm seeing  I'm seeing more pedestrian accidents in facilities   like this. And you've got a from the south,  you've got that nice sort of park-like effect   with a pedestrian access. I I can't tell if it's  coming to parking space or into your uh Yeah. So,   dumpsters or it it kind of comes in next next  to the next to the uh or on the site side of   the dumpsters. Um and then we have we do have  a sidewalk connection out uh from the existing   sidewalk on Woodberry into the site, but the  the remainder of this pad site is is really   self-contained. Um we we feel we're providing  enough parking within this pad area for the people   that are going to the bank. How about people  parking in the big parking lot to the east? Just   uh striping a crosswalk or something or two for  the Yeah, I I I don't think we'd be opposed to   to doing something like that. I think that might  be a good idea, a simple idea just because people  

will walk over. I know a lot of you and certainly  most of the business will be drive up but uh you   may get some folks walking over and ought to be  a little bit more organized than it is because I   know it's um especially that outer circulation  as Paul was saying from the Woodbury entrance   down a little bit of a speedway sometimes. Yeah.  And I mean, we are, you know, thankfully we're   we're this where our our entrance, you our main  entrance and exit. We are sort of close to what   is a I guess a three-way stop. So people already  within the plaza have to stop. So that that that   helps there as well. But um I think it's it's a  good point about pedestrian crossing from from   the plaza. Um and then like I said, I don't think  we'd be opposed to to adding a crosswalk there.   Uh the pedestrian circulation inside the site is  a little problematic, but it's small and certainly   no room for people to get driving quickly. So, I'm  not sure what you could do other than provide a a   connection, an actual pedestrian connection across  maybe from your north entrance or something. But,   um I don't feel strongly about it. I just  noticed it. But the connection just striping a   pedestrian crossing I think it's your maybe the  southerntherly uh because that way if you did   it the southerntherly one then people using the  green space if they do then they could at least   make connection back up to go to Petco wherever  else they're going. Yeah. And back and forth. I'm a little conf that connection from the  Woodbury uh sidewalk. It kind of it's that  

quarter of a circle that just ends at the roadway  which would be I'm guessing the entrance but   there's not like a walkway on the other side. So  are people just walking into the road? I guess I'm   not sure why you have that walkway if it doesn't  actually really go anywhere. Realistically,   you're not going to go from Woodberry, walk  in a half a quarter of a circle just to get   to that kind of entrance or entrancing an exit  to the parking lot where there's going to be   more traffic than going kind of just straight up  if you're trying to get to the stores up there.   Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. Yeah.  Logistically, it just it almost looks like it   was added there to look pretty and doesn't  actually have a pedestrian in mind. You're   right. It probably does make would make more  sense to extend it up so that if anyone walks   up there that they'd be able to cross up into the  plaza as opposed to, like you said, sort of ending   almost mid mid driveway. But yeah, that's that's  a that's a fair point and I think that'd be be a   good change to to actually bring it to that corner  to allow that access into the into the plaza. Any any other questions or comments to the  applicant? Can I ask a question? You just   did. You want to ask another Yeah. Neil,  I just wanted to ask about or or clarify   um some of the improvements to community  space are going to be made by Citizens   Bank and then others by the property  owner. Is that I don't I don't know   what the their actual agreement is if  or if it's even been worked out yet,  

but it will be either the property it will likely  be the property owner, I would think, but I Yeah. Yeah. So, the property owner will  be making all these improvements. And then   um I just wanted to ask about the area  by the schoolhouse. Um I mean you're   in excess of the requirement. What what  was the plan for this like triangle here or can that be removed or do you have u  flexibility to remove that if if not needed? Yeah,   I I I think if if as long as those other three  areas get us there, I think I think we would   be fine removing that. It's it's a kind of  odd piece of land is sitting over there. Any other questions or comments um in this kind of map? I see there are trees, but  have you guys made decisions on like what types? Because to Beth's point, I'm not going to sit on  those picnic benches next to Woodberry A eating   my, you know, Wendy's. If everyone can see me  and you've got all that exhaust like it just   doesn't but if the trees are something that's more  full then maybe it provides some privacy. Hi Matt   Silva and Associates. So yeah we have made some  decisions regarding that. So the area that you're   talking about with Wendy's the one over that's  uh to the plan west those are intended to be   something a little bit lower. So what we're trying  to aim to do is not provide full enclosures for   anything. We know security is a very big concern  at least with citizens. So we want to maintain  

vision lines across uh all locations. So this is  really just meant to be something that's like 24   to 36 in high at most if that's the only area that  you're asking about. I I guess are you providing   community space if the community doesn't want  to use it because it's not designed well is my   ultimate question. Yeah. which is the same  with like that side that pedestrian access.   It's great that you're providing pedestrian  access, but as someone who walks everywhere,   I am not going to right. That's not the way I  would go. It would not be safest for me. So,   I guess it's great that you're  providing extra community space,   but if it's not designed in a way that  the community can actually use it,   then are you actually providing community space?  And that's something that we can definitely   revisit with the owner in terms of screening and  I'm already sketching some ideas based on our   conversation here for how we can react that too.  So it's definitely good comment. So thank you. Any other questions or issue? Can I ask one more?  You're hiding again. He leads forward. I don't   know where to go get your attention. Um, I just  want to make sure that the owner of the entire   lot, probably not the bank lot, I'm assuming will  be responsible for maintaining all of the rain   gardens and detention areas and all that because  there's a lot of maintenance that goes along   with those. I I would I would believe so. Okay.  Just want to make sure that's truly out there.   Like because I have a feeling that, you know, the  bank's not going to care or take care of them. So,   the owner of the property really needs to and  I just want to make sure it was put out there   that that would be their requirement. You put  it out there, uh, just to jump in the bandwagon   here for you, Neil. Uh, it has nothing to do  with the site. I think all of the comments have   been appropriate and I think it's a great high  exposure, great visibility spot for the bank. Um,  

ultimately you have a flat roof on something that  it has no coverage over it. So, it seems like a   great candidate for some solar panels. Idea. I I'm  not sure if they've looked into that. I I don't   know what Well, you you included a green building  statement and it just seems like a begging for me   to make a comment about solar panels. So, uh  that's my only comment. Otherwise, it's great.   You're not even a solar guy. I'm sure he would  correct me on it. Any other comments, questions? It's not your hand. It's just you're just the  iPad. Okay. Sorry. Yes. I was making Thank you,   Neil. Thank you. Open public hearing to anybody   here on Zoom who wishes to speak  to four against this application. Anybody on Zoom? Our ratings are last  call. Anybody here or on Zoom wish to   speak to four against this application?  going to close the public hearing. Since no one else is jumping in, uh, beginning  with the development site, I vote to find the   conditional use permit application meets the  criteria set forth in section 10.5B11 and 10.5B73   and adopt the findings effect as presented. Second  discussion. All those in favor? I. Any opposed?   I'll continue to vote the uh vote to grant the  conditional use permit for the development site. Second. Sorry. Discussion. Yes. Um I was going to  say I mean it is a rather large lot so having more   than one principal building makes more sense.  In fact, I think even having more buildings   and getting rid of set of that extra parking  lot that's never used would be great, too. Um,  

so I have no problems with having more than one  principal building on a 19 acre lot. It's a net   benefit, too. I think it's going to look really  nice. Um, especially with some of the comments   tonight with uh the landscaping and whatnot. I  think it's going to be a great value add to that. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? And I  will continue vote to find the conditional   use permit application meets the criteria set  forth in section 10.243 and to adopt findings   of effect as presented. Second. Second  discussion. All those in favor? I. Any   opposed? And I'll continue to vote to grant the  conditional use permit for accessory drive-thru   facility. Second. Second. Yes. Um, I'm very  pleased that they put the drive-thru not on   the Woodbury side because I think that it could  be annoying to the people sitting at the light   listening to transactions and whatnot going on.  So, I'm glad the side they put it on. Otherwise,   I might have a little more heartache about it.  So, I'm very pleased with its location. Um,   any more elements and structures in the plaza  throughway itself I think is a value ad because   of safety. Um but because the change will happen  obviously there may be more stop signs or signage   in general. So uh hopefully that people adapt  and recognize the change and there are no issues. Going to have a drive-thru. This is a  spot for one. Yeah. All those in favor?   I I Any opposed? All right. Uh we will  continue. I will make a motion that we   vote to find that the site plan application  meets requirements set forth in site plan   regulations section 2.9 evaluation criteria  and adopt the findings of fact as presented.  

Second. Was that a second? There  was like a couple of and a third in the way. Yeah, they don't want to talk as  much but they'll second. All those in favor I.   Any opposed? All right. Now I'm going to make a  motion to grant the site plan approval with the   following conditions. Um there is 2.1 through  2.4 that are subsequent 2.5 and 2.6 that are oh   no yeah president that says subsequent that's why  I said that president and then subsequent for 2.5   2.6 and I am going to look for the oh wait for  a second second. Thank you. Um, I would like to   add a stipulation and I'm thinking it's going to  be uh precedent because I do think um it's a good   idea to move the end of that sidewalk to not  be into the busy intersection where people are   coming and going, but to move it to go towards the  plaza instead. So to curve that in that direction   and that would actually get anyone on the outside  road sidewalk into the plaza. So I think that's   a really good change. And yeah, I don't think  that the community space by the schoolhouse um   building is at all useful as well. Um so if it is  not needed, I would rather it be taken out at this   time and thought again when they redevelop that  section of this lot. So those are my two added   stipulations if the second you want to stripe a  crosswalk on the by the south entrance. By the   south entrance stripe the Say that again. I didn't  hear you. Stripe crosswalk by the south entrance.   I discussed Oh. Oh. Oh, yes. That to do crosswalks  into the plaza. Yep. Yep. That can be added. Let   me just confirm where Well, I know we wanted to  put one right where I just moved the sidewalk. Are  

you talking there or someplace else? But south on  the site uh stripes south. So, both sides or both   sides. Um details worked out with staff. Okay.  Yeah. add a stipulation for some crosswalks to   be worked out with staff where it makes the most  sense for pedestrian um use. I was thinking flow,   but I couldn't come up with the word flow.  I think flow is right. Another thing people   talked about was landscaping. Are we good with  landscaping? I am, but you had a concern about it.   Well, I just thought sometimes you can put some  grasses, you know, like right along the edge of   the road that would make it a seem a little less  a little more of a private community space. But   if everyone else is fine with it, I guess I'll  stop complaining. I I would agree that the the   existing picnic area does not seem adequately  screened to be very useful. It's right by I mean,   it's on a busy road, so there's not much you can  do about that, but I couldn't see myself sitting   there without a little more buffer. Right.  So that's why I was thinking like, you know,   they just grow those grasses that can be like  three feet high. They sometimes add a fair amount   of privacy if you do them sort of correctly in  a planting along the edge of the road and that   way there'd even be a buffer between the sidewalk  there. But if we don't have the applicant could   work with the planning department to enhance the  landscaping plan. Yeah. just to give a little more   buffer from pedestrian and um resting community  spaces and the roadway. To me, what looks so   inviting to that area is the grass. I mean, people  like to sit out on the grass there. There's a   there's a vast amount of grass there. That's the  geese like it a lot. It's really I mean that alone   to me is special, but the paths are certainly  enhancing all of it. I I think I think it's great.  

So, does everybody understand what we are doing  here? Yes. We've added like four different things,   but Peter's writing them all down, so I know he's  got them. I second best motion. And you like all   the additions? Yes. Okay, we're good. Okay.  All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Thank you. [Applause] Next item on the agenda is request  of the city of Portsouth as owner for property   located at 35 Sherburn Road requesting review  of excuse me review of site plan review and   conditional use permit applications within the  highway noise overlay district for recommendation   to the city manager for the construction of  127 workforce housing units in three buildings   including demolition of the rear gym of the school  and converting the remaining structure into eight   units. Construction of a fourstory 90un building.  construction of a three-story 29 unit building and   associated site improvements including utilities,  lighting, landscaping, storm water, parking and   access. This property is on assessor map 259  lot 10 and lies in the municipal M district   who is here to present this application. Good  evening members of the planning board. My name is   Andrea Picket and I am representing or one of the  representatives of the PHA this evening. Um it's   very exciting to be here. We are um moving forward  with a project that has been in motion and you've   all been a part of for quite some time. Um we've  been through community input and incorporated the   feedback um that we've received and our team  has concentrated on the physical design and   layout um to ensure compatibility with the  surrounding uses, safe access, adequate parking,   and thoughtful landscaping. With me this  evening, we have a very dedicated team of  

design professionals. We have Corey Cowwell  and Jack McTig of TF Maran Civil Engineers,   Sarah Addict of MSA Architects, Todd Schaefer,  who is with SRW Environmental Consulting, and Mark   Lent our facilities director. Craig Welch would  have been here this evening, but he is bringing   his son to college. So, um I hope we can give him  a a pass. He sends his regards. And with that,   I will pass it on to our professionals. Um Corey,  would you like to come up? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Andrea. Good evening, Mr. Chairman,  members of the board. Cory Cowwell from TF Maran   submitted with this application, this 38 sheet set  of drawings for a site plan review and conditional   use permit for this project is a drainage  memo done by TF Moran, a schedule that we   put together explaining some of the differences  between projects one and project two letter of   authorization. a green statement provided by TF  Moran which talks about some of the green building   components, a traffic impact and access study  prepared by TF Moran, a noise assessment report   prepared by SRW, Environmental Consulting, uh  the results of the New Hampshire Natural Heritage   Bureau regarding the data check. Um email from  the fire department accepting revised changes to   our landscape design. 3 days monitoring of speed  limits on Sherburn Road prepared by Precision Data   Industries. Our site development plans, floor  plans and elevations prepared by Market Square  

Architects. Uh we provided also some landscape  plans for projects one and two in color format.   We provided some open space plans in color format  for projects one and two. There is a full drainage   analysis submitted, an environmental refuel  assessment, existing sewer flow assessment,   a geotechnical report and water hydrant flow  tests. Now all these reports and studies have   been reviewed by the technical advisory committee  and demonstrate the abundance of information   and studies completed for this project to date.  Prior to meeting with this board, we've had three   community outreach meetings in this room. We've  had a work session with the technical advisory   committee in May of this year and a formal TAC  meeting in July. At each of these meetings,   we received feedback and suggestions which we've  incorporated into our design and in our opinion,   this has significantly improved this project. The  Portsouth Housing Authority plans to construct   workforce housing units on city-owned property  via partnership outlined in a land use compliance   agreement. I believe that relevant excerpts from  this agreement have been included in the staff   memo and in your packets. Our application proposes  the construction of 127 workforce housing units in   two separate projects. This will be accomplished  by saving the front third of the Sherburn School,   also known as the Robert J. Listister Academy. The  front portion of the school is saved to preserve   the historic charm of the property. We're able  to build 127 units on this property yet maintain   the appearance of an historical school. And  this is accomplished by utilizing the unique  

grades of the site. Peter, if you could pull  up the architectural plans that we submitted,   sheet nine, there is a rendering that shows the  front portion of the school to be preserved and   how you see uh the back units. And the purpose  of this rendering is to demonstrate how we're   able to mask a lot of these units. I  think you go Yeah, just a couple more. two more. Oh, uh, they were in the architectural  plans, which I believe was item 09. And as Peter's   looking for that, I'll I'll continue. Uh, Sherburn  Road at the location or at this frontage is   between elevation 60 and 67. It gradually rises as  you approach the bridge over 95 to elevation 67.   The floor elevation of the school is  at elevation 68. The property behind   the school drops to elevation 54, which is  14 ft below the floor level of the school.   By placing the majority of the units behind  the school building and at a lower elevation,   much of the multi-unit buildings are masked  by the school. A rendering of this view is   provided uh which Peter is diligently looking  for and I'll continue as he searches for that   and apologies Peter if it wasn't readily  uh readily available. There was a lot of   information submitted. I think there was a list  of 15 different items and this would be under the   architectural plans. Due to funding all 127 units  cannot be built at once. Therefore, 342, page 342.

Again, due to funding, we're breaking this into  two projects. Funding for the first project,   which is a 90 unit building, four-story 90unit  building, would be constructed at the rear of   the site with parking, access, playground,  and landscaping around this building. All right. I'm not seeing it. I think it's page 116 of our  combined packet for what it's worth. All right, let me open that. There's a  couple of them. page 1 million57. Oh,   the combined site. I have like,211. Oh, sorry.  You're right. 1. Yeah, it's in the thousands.   It's in the thousands. Yeah, there's probably  not many applications with over a thousand pages,   but this has had a lot of studies. Well, our  entire package is over a thousand pages. So, when   our entire packages, we're trying to tell them  where it is in there. Your yours is half of that. Sorry. one one zero. It's it's a kind  of an important component because when   you think of that many units on a site, the  mind jumps to visual massing of buildings.   But as you drive Sherburn Road, what you  really see mainly is the preservation of   the front of the academy building. Peter,  I think it's just a couple more pages. Ah, there we go. Down for you. It's the lower  picture. That's the problem. It's on the same  

page. There it is right there. So, that's the view  you see from from Sherburn Road. And you can see   there's actually 127 units on this property. Yet,  as you drive into the site and you drive Sherburn   Road, what you mainly see is the academy. And  that again is due to this drop in elevation.   We're allowed to put these units behind the school  and at a lower elevation than the school. Again,   project one is in the very rear of the site  and that's a fourstory 90 unit building. It has   parking uh access via two access points. There is  a southerntherly access point that you're looking   at here. And if Peter, you could go to the colored  plan that we provided, which is up just a few more   pages. It shows the uh the two access points. Uh  those are on the civil plans. Just a few more. There we go. Uh after that, it's  after the Yeah, because I Sorry,   Peter. I'm going the wrong direction  for you. Go past that by a few. There you There it is right there. You can see  the fourstory 90 unit building is shown as the   orange in the back and that sits at an elevation  of 10 to 14 ft lower than the front of this site.   There's a southerntherly two-way entrance  off of Sherburn Road and a northerly one-way   uh access and egress on the northerly part of  Sherburn Road. The two-way traffic uh is done   to the 90 unit building. Uh it's it's done  for two reasons actually. It's it's two-way   traffic into you reach the 90 unit building and  then it converts to one-way traffic around the  

90UN building northerly access. And this is done  for two reasons. First, it allows for occupants   parking in the front 43 spaces to return to  Sherburn Road without traversing through the   site and around the building. And secondly, it  provides community parking for the amenities which   can be accessed on that southerntherly entrance  where most of the amenities are up front and then   they can return via that entrance without having  to traverse through the site and interrupting any   pedestrian flow of the building occupants. The  90 unit building requires 120 spaces per the   Portsouth zoning ordinance and we're providing  124 spaces. Additionally, project one includes   sidewalks from Sherburn Road to the front and  back of the 90unit building and to the back   and sides of the academy building and those are  shown with the with the gray hatching. There are   two bike storage racks are proposed as part of  project one. The first is at the southerntherly   side of the 90 unit building and the second bike  storage area would contain a bike repair station   and is proposed at the easterly side of the 90  unit building on the edge of the pavement almost   at the easterly terminus at the site. Project one  requires the installation of underground electric,   water, sewer, and gas as shown on sheet C09, which  is a utility plan provided in colors. Underground   electric, water, and gas would be trenched  from Sherban Road. Sewer uh shown in green   on that utility plan would be trenched to the 90  unit building uh to Greenland Road. drainage for   project one. As depicted on sheet C06, there are a  series of catch basins, yard drains, roof leaders  

that convey storm water to four stormtech chamber  systems where storm water is treated and allowed   to infiltrate. These storm techch chamber systems  are all underground, so when you go on site, you   won't see them. Uh the first three are under the  paved parking or access areas. The first one is to   the north of the 90 unit building. The uh second  storm water treatment area is to the east of the   90 unit access building. Again, below the parking  and access drive. And the third is to the south in   that paved access drive. There's a fourth storm  water chamber system in the open area, a green   space below the playground and the open space  between the playground and the 90 unit building.   A soil survey for this site was prepared by  Mark Jacobs last month. Mark's a certified soil   scientist. Uh it's included in our submission.  The dominant soils on this site are primarily   urban complex and uh husk area soils both of  which well drained soils which allows us to   utilize these chamber systems which provide  infiltration. The group uh this Husk soils is a   group A soils which essentially means it contains  a very high saturated hydraulic conductivity with   very deep free water occurrence and low runoff  potential when thoroughly wet. In other words,   it's sandy well- drained soils. It's good stuff.  Project one lighting plan shown on sheet C012.   This plan calls for 13 polemounted lights and 11  wall-mounted lights. These lights are dock sky   compliant and picture of both these polemounted  and wall-mounted lights are shown in that upper  

right hand corner of sheet C012. Amenities  provided as part of project one include   walking paths in the southerntherly corner of  the property. You can see there's a triangle triangular area here and there are uh several  walking paths provided in that triangular area.   Uh those are shown on the landscape plan and  then there is a walking path along the easterly   boundary of the property which is here. And  the intent of these walking paths are there's   sidewalks in Sherburn. One could actually come  in through this area or through Sherburn up here,   walk the site to the walking path around the site  through the woods. There's a walking path and then   there's room to there's a crosswalk and then they  can walk via sidewalk back out to Sherburn. So,   it creates a walking trail um partially through  the woods, partially through open space,   and partially uh via sidewalks and across the  pave parking area. We've also provided as part   of amenities uh a community garden in this  same area here. Uh there are beehives that   are proposed in that area and bike storage and  maintenance and a playground, a large playground   uh between the 90 unit building and the um and  the academy which would be here. Landscaping is   provided throughout the site as shown on sheet  C14. This plan calls for 21 deciduous trees,   21 coniferous trees, and 81 shrubs and our ground  plants. Project two, which is to be constructed  

at the completion of project one, includes  the renovation of the front portion of the   academy building into eight residential units,  the removal of the gym portion of the academy,   and the construction of a 29 unit building  between the school and project one. that that's the 29 unit building and that's the  90 unit building and the school is renovated   into eight units. Project two utilizes the access  and utilities constructed in project one and will   include the construction of 44 additional parking  spaces on the southerntherly side shown here.   Sidewalks between the access drives and remaining  portion of school building are included in   project two. And the new 29 unit building uh  which is in the middle again is all part of of project two. There's also in project  two a courtyard between that middle 29   unit building and the academy building. And  these this courtyard would be constructed for   outdoor space for both the uh eight units  in the school building and the 29 unit uh   middle building. There's also a new fire access  road as part of project two which is here. Now,   that access road would be grass paper and that  looks and feels like grass, walks like grass,   yet if you were to drive a fire truck on it,  it upholds the truck without rudding. And the   purpose for that is there's a tremendous amount  of green space that we're trying to preserve here.   And we really want the look and feel of open  space. What we heard from the community is we   want more than anything, we want open space. We  want a place where we can go, where we can sit,  

where we can put a, you know, if there's a picnic  table, a community garden. And so we're trying to   preserve as much of the site as we can as  open space. And partly to accomplish that,   we've provided this fire access road for not only  fire trucks, but emergency access uh in grass   paver so that it doesn't appeared like a paved  driveway through the middle of the site. the uh there's also um uh four EV chargers provided as  part of uh project two which would be provided   uh shown on this plan right in this area here.  parking stalls reserve reserved for EV parking   and four EV parking stalls which would be accessed  via a transformer to be constructed right in the   middle area. Drainage for project two is shown on  sheet C07 catch basins conveying storm water from   project 2. Um they they convey that storm  water to the parking area. There's a fifth   underground storm tech system right here in this  southerntherly parking area and that's the only   uh storm water system that would have to be  constructed for project two. Once all storm water   improvements are complete, there will be reduction  uh significant reduction in surface water peak   runoff rate and volume which is described on page  three of our drainage analysis. In other words,   if you were to measure the runoff coming from  this site today and then you measure the runoff   coming from this site post construction, there's  a reduction in rate and volume post construction   over what exists today. And that's accomplished  by these five underground storm tech drainage   systems. Uh project two utilities require much  less construction than project one. Most of that  

infrastructure is put in as part of project one.  Again, we're looping sewer, we're looping water,   we're looping electric and gas as part of project  one. So, project two can sign uh can basically tie   into these connections that we provided in project  one and connect to the two new buildings. The only   other addition with project 2 utilities is the  installation of the transformer in this location   for those four EV uh parking stations. Uh lighting  for project two requires six new polemounted   lights to illuminate the 44 additional parking  stalls again on the south side here and there   will be 10 new deciduous shade trees and 11 shrubs  as part of project two which are shown on GC15.   One of our main goals, one of the things we heard  from the community when designing this project,   as I mentioned, was to maximize units without  compromising room for amenities and open space.   40% of this site will remain as open space,  green space. We could fit more units here,   but the cry we heard was units, but we want our  open space. And there's no zoning regulation   for open space in the mun municipal zone.  Um but we feel that preserving 40% of it   is a is a big step and uh was one of the  goals of this project. A lot of thought,   community guidance and suggestions have gone into  this project. We've incorporated much of these   suggestions into our site design. These comments  and feedbacks have really shaped this project.   The architecture fits the site and provides 127  new you uh new workforce units in a community in   need of this type of housing. Sarah from Market  Square Architects is here to describe and explain  

the architecture, the building components that  make these units well suited for this site. Sir, I can just say we are limited to only looking  at site plan. So Sure. But please if you want   to give us a brief outline of the architecture  that would be a nice thing to know. Sure. I   will just run through the architecture as  it impacts the site plan specifically. Um,   as Corey has already mentioned, we take strong  advantage of the natural grade and slope of the   site to capitalize on um a a good amount a  good density towards the rear of the site   um and uh being able to take advantage of the  street view with the historic building at as its   uh primary view and focus. Um, additionally,  building sighting uh was made to capitalize on   roof exposure for solar panel installation  and um, additionally to shelter and uh,   protect the inner space amenities. Um, so thank  you very much for the opportunity. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, that concludes our  presentation. We'll be happy to   address any questions the board may  have. Any questions? The applicant. Yes. I think I want to I have several questions, but  let's start with how you are going to deal. So   I know that the back building sits down but it  you know when we look at on this it's all very  

flat. So could you give us a run through like  be like in the end where the fire road is those   paths the playground I mean where does the hill  go up? Can you talk about the topography of how   it's going to look when the project's all done  from that perspective? I it's hard to picture on   a flat plan. Yeah. Everything on a plan is white  and flat. You're right. And uh I think the best   explanation of that is shown on sheet C06. If  you're able, Peter, if you can find that sheet   and bring it up. And that's entitled our grading  and drainage plan. And what that demonstrates is what that demonstrates is as you enter the  project from Sherburn Road, uh you're at   elevation 60. As you get to the back portion of  the academy building, it actually goes up slightly   in elevation to about 63 right in here. 64 as you  get back here and then it starts to drop slightly   as you as you enter this way. This goes down to  elevation right about here is elevation 60. So   again, you're 64, 63, then down to 62, 61, 60. So  it's not a significant drop. And then in the back,   as you get to the back of the building down to  about elevation 58 down here. So all the way from   here to here is only a 6ft drop in elevation.  we're able to keep uh in other words the ground  

elevation as I mentioned in the very back of the  site is at elevation 54 but the uh the building is   at elevation 59.6 the floor elevation. So we're  keeping the floor up if you will. So again, 64,   63, 62, 61, excuse me, 60, 59, 58 to the back of  the building. And then as you come back around the   building, um, here you're about 59. Here you're  about elevation 60. And then you're back up to 61,   62, and 63. So it's not it's not a significant  drop. They're very they're they're pretty shallow   grades. We did provide a um we provided a drive  profile, did we not, Jack? That shows that that   elevation change. And that drive profile, I think,  is a is a good good way to look at it. And that's   shown on sheet C22. And if you could turn to  that page, please, Peter. It shows it shows the   elevation coming in from Sherburn Road at a 2.2%  slope, then goes up a 2.5% slope, goes over the   crest of a hill and down a 2.4% slope, down to  a 1.5% slope and 1.5 back out. So our steepest   slope is 2.5%. So basically, we're not going to be  on a slant at the playground or not at all. fire   road is. I you know it's hard to tell when you're  looking at those plans. So I appreciate you going   through that. Yeah, much of the grade difference  is really in the middle in the middle of the site   where that 29 unit building is going. That's  going to take up much of the grade difference.  

Um, one of my other questions is in  regard to um, project one, project two,   and I I understand what you're doing in each, and  you have put together a timeline, but for those   that don't read the package and are kind of at  home, could you kind of just let us know exactly   like you anticipate project one will take this  long? Are you waiting till the entire project's   done before the second project gets started? I  know it has to do with financing, but if you could   just run through a quick timeline to give some  sort of points for everyone listening. Sure. So,   you're right. Project one is first. That's the  90 unit for building and we anticipate that I   believe it's outlined in our letter. It's  anticipated to take 17 months to construct.   Once project one is complete, we can initiate  schematic design and finance applications for   project two. The construction start of project two  is contingent upon the availability of financing   um receipts of any additional permits required  and the um obviously the uh the availability   of cost-effective materials and labors. So  briefly stated project one takes 17 months.   Project two can then apply for funding. That's  going to take several months. It's probably going   to be between the start of project one and the end  of project two is probably going to be uh two and   a half to threeyear timeline. Okay. And then while  project one is going on and during that timeline,   could you just say how um the plan is to make sure  that the existing Sherburn school gets maintained   during that time frame because it's a long time  and it's building sitting empty can have issues.   Yeah, that's a good question and  I we tried to demonstrate that on

uh the site layout plan for project 2 which is  shown as sheet C05. So as part of project one,   we're actually providing um  sidewalks to the academy. Uh turn to the right page. You can see on C04, I'm  sorry, C04, we're showing one, two, three, four,   five new sidewalks to the academy so that each  door, and these sidewalks are shown where there's   doors, current doors, so that pedestrian access,  there'll be actually six entrances including the   front where pedestrians can get to and from the  academy because during project one, the academy   is maintained, the entire academy, the front and  the back portion. So there'll be sidewalks to the   parking areas and um maintenance will will have  to continue uh through you know throughout the   process of constructing project one. Who's  maintaining the academy during that time   period? That I'm not sure because it's city-owned  property and I I don't know if that's spelled out   in the agreement between the PHA and the city  or not. Um that's a question I can't answer.   Do we have that answer? Do we have that answer?  Mark Andrea Mark Lent the facility director can   can elaborate on that. Since we are Mark Lent,  uh facilities director for Portsmouth Housing.   Since we are working in cooperation with the  city, the city has done some maintenance on   the school already. There was some shingles blown  off. We talked to the city. city sent a crew up   there to repair it. I'm actually working on some  bids to repaint the facade on the front of the   school and possibly the sides and do any repairs.  So, I think it's fully understanded between the  

two groups that the school will be maintained.  Um, the city is currently using the school for   storage while their uh department of public  works building uh edition is being done. So,   I think uh there'll be cooperation between both  parties. Um, and there is some discussion uh   right now as to while while the 90 unit building  is being built, we may provide some safety fencing   around the building just to keep everybody and  equipment and anything else away from the school   uh while construction is being completed. Great.  Thank you very much. You're welcome. So, it'll   be worked out, but somebody because the building  should be heated and maybe the deputy city manager   knows the answer to this question. attorney. Yeah,  the uh the city attorney. I'm sorry. My my bad.   It's too late. The electric and the heat has been  on on the building the whole time. Will you be   do Well, do you have the answer to this, Trevor?  Let's let the deputy city attorney tell us what's   uh uh Thank you, Chair. Uh Deputy City Attorney  Trevor McCort. Um pursuant to the option of ground   lease upon exercise of the ground lease by PHA uh  PHA will be in sole possession and control of the   property including the building um which which we  would say also includes the responsibility to care   for the building and maintain it. Thank you. Can  I ask one more question? Absolutely. Sorry. I've   never seen anyone put a beehive on a site plan  before. You really gonna put a beehive there? So,   my understanding is that there are beehives there  now. Oh, and this was one of the features that   the community specifically asked that we keep in  place. Okay. I did not know that. Thank you. I'll  

shut up now. I promise. Yes, Andrew. Um Corey,  not to make you go back and forth again. Um,   thank you for explaining the grading and  topography. I think it was very helpful. It   also seems very mild. Um, given the sequential  order of the buildings and the fact that the eastern most building, the largest of the  buildings, is also the tallest. Did you guys   do a shadow study or look at the lighting and  how that would affect the lower two buildings   in the front of the site? So the lighting plan  shows where the plans go and their foot candle   at each location. It I think it demonstrates  as best we can how the ground at each square   foot interval or each couple square foot interval  is going to be lighted. Um that um more so about   sun exposure and actual shadows. Oh. Uh, Sarah,  did we look at Did you folks look at any shadows?   I thought there was a a brief study done about  shadowing and and suns. Could you explain that? Um, Market Square uh during some of its earlier  studies did look at the uh arrangement of the   buildings upon the site such that the inner  courtyard between the two building between   the school building and the 29 mid unit building  and the angles of the 90 unit building provided   maximum daylight and utilization of sun exposure  to um improve the atmosphere of those spaces.  

Um so this is for project one which shows um  the school building that's existing now and   there's a 50 foot uh 50 foot uh separation  distance between the two buildings with the   gymnasium gone and the 29story building in its  place. There's not a significant difference in   height from the height of the gymnasium that's  to be demolished and the new 29 uh unit buildings   roof structure and then a considerable distance  to the playground which has a southern exposure. This may be for you as well. It's more of a  curiosity, not a scrutiny. Um, you have a pretty   great sized triangular parking area at the bottom  of the page. Not necessarily I have to check is   the south at the southern portion of the site. Was  there a consideration to move the 29 unit building   to that triangular part parking area and then put  the parking in between the larger building and   the school building? Yes. Um that decision might  have predated my participation in the project, but   I do understand that there's an abuter directly  south of the of the plan. Yeah, the condos. Yeah,   that may have impacted the uh sighting location of  the there's significant grade in there, too. Yeah,   there's a retain retaining wall structures  there. Yeah, I just wanted to add that between   the school building and the 29 unit building is a  courtyard and that provides outdoor space for both   buildings and connectivity for both buildings.  And that's primarily the main reason why the  

why we chose the southerntherly triangle for the  parking as if we put the 29 unit building there,   there would be no no room for courtyard and no  connectivity between the two buildings. I see.   Are there any Sorry, go ahead. Are there  any additional amenities inside of these   buildings or are they exclusively residential space in the 90 unit building? Uh, community  room. Community room. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um,   I am not sure if the programming is community  room for the building residents or the development   residents or if it's intended to be open to  uh a greater population at this time. Got it. Yes, sir. Um, since this is a staggered project,  um, once construction on the first building is   completed, is there, um, like are there going  to be like a temporary structures or anything   like that in terms of like how the property is  going to be prepared for the second phase of uh,   construction and like how that would affect like  walkability, that kind of thing. Um, I do see some   differences between I think it is like C 06 and  C 07 that are immediately obvious, but it might   be worth going over just for the record. So, the  majority of construction takes place for project   one, right? It's it's not only the 90unit  building, but most of the infrastructure,   both access drives, most of the parking, most of  the utilities, 90 to 95% of the utilities is all   installed as project one. So project two becomes  much easier to construct because we're we're   providing all of that flat space if you will.  In other words, you you put in the um you know  

the um the binder course of pavement and then you  can stage on top of it and then when project two   is complete and put the top course of pavement  on and it all flows pretty well. So there was   some careful thought that went into that and and  I mean ultimately we need the utilities because   the utilities come from Sherburn Road. We have to  put in all most of the utilities for project one,   but we're putting in not only that but the access  drives and more than required parking for project   one during project one construction. So  does that address the question? Yeah,   more or less. Thank you. Bill the the good  aspect of the grade differential is that you get   uh to kind of hide some of the structure from  Sherborn Road. The downside is you have kind of   a band shell uh in a noise overlay district uh  with the noise being trapped from the highway.   So question is do do you have how how  are you thinking about uh protecting uh   from noise any fencing any uh construction  materials or any other design features that   uh mitigate against the the this being a a noise  trapping uh environment? Sure. I'm going to have   our noise consultant address that question  because he's here with us tonight. Todd. Hi, I'm Todd Sheffer with SRW Environmental.  Um, so when we look at the noise at the site,   we're we're we're following HUD's  guidance um because it's going to   be federally funded uh partially. And so the  way that the buildings are laid out itself,  

um, most of that 90 unit building is is blocking  a a whole ton of that noise that you would have   from the highway. Um, there can be some fencing if  necessary when we look at our final designs put up   um to to block the noise also. But when we have  both those buildings in there, uh there's really   just a slight angle that you would see, you  know, you could have the noise coming through,   but almost the entire length of that project  um is blocked. The buildings itself block the   noise. And so the playground area is back within,  you know, it's in that area, which is all blocked   by the buildings the way that they're laid out.  Now, the the topography of the site also um it it   rises quite a bit up from the highway and so the  topography shields a lot of the the ground level   noise that would come into the property. Does that  answer the questions? Uh yes and no. So, so would   you talk more about fencing in your professional  opinion? Is it highly desirable uh nice to have   or unnecessary? Um, a lot of times it's it's well  the the the general rule of thumb is if you can   block the line of sight from the noise, you can  reduce at least five dB. Just a simple blocking   um of the line of sight and you can go up from  there if need be. Um these huge buildings though   in the way, I mean that's really going to knock  down the noise levels um to the outside. they're   going to knock down the noise levels to the inside  um considerably as well. And and now you have this   this great big wide building where that noise  attenuation will occur. So if you look at the  

buildings and you and you see the playground,  there's just this little slight area in between   the buildings um that is exposed. But again,  you have the gradient going down to the highway   which blocks that direct line of sight from the  playground to the highway. We had a project a year   or so ago that was on a highway and uh there was  a decision to use building materials on the side   facing the highway but not on the others which I  suppose is a expense related decision. Uh how do   you think about that in this context? So that's  that's what we would look at also because again   on the on the rear of the building that's not  facing the road, you've already attenuated the   nose the noise from the front side of the  building. Um so on on a building like that,   you have a whole wall unit with windows and doors  and and siding. Um the windows are going to be   your your your leak your leaky point where the  most noise is going to come into the building. Um,   and so you really want to beef up those windows  on the sides that the noise is coming from. So I   would say everything that's facing the highways  um on that one long end of the building on the   I guess that's the northwest. That's where you'd  want to have your your highest noise attenuating   windows. um standard construction these days  with modern equip modern windows, just plain   old uh double pane windows, you're going to have  at least a 27 decel reduction. But then when you   get up into noise reducing windows, you can get  up to 30 40, you know, u decibel reduction. the   standard wall unit with the 2 by six construction  and and modern uh insulation, you're looking at  

least 50 decibel, you know, reductions. And so the  unit itself is going to block most of that noise   um from the interiors. Uh if you've gone into any  modern buildings now near noise sources and and   we do this a lot, you just don't hear anything.  You can you can hear it. It's just not loud. So,   by doing that on the noisy side, as I say, for  the for the playground, that's that's absorbing   most of the noise, if you will, or blocking it.  And let me back up to the fence again. Is it is   it a nice to have or is it I really should do  that? It's I mean, it's just it I don't know   how to answer that. I mean, is it nice to have?  It's nice to have for the noise reduction. Sure.   Um, is it nice to have so you don't see the  cars? Sure. Um, maybe not everybody wants   to see a fence along there, but there's also some  trees along the the the route and everything. So,   um, it wouldn't hurt for noise reduction. I'll put  it that way. It's just other reasons whether or   not we'd need it. Did you recommend a fence?  What's that? Do you recommend a fence? Um,   I think it depends on what the the final  grading looks like on that side. If it's again,   I I don't think we need to do anything for the  buildings in themselves, but based on your study,   what you what you've looked at, you didn't you  didn't recommend defense or you did recommend   defense. You know, I just I don't remember. I did  that a long time ago to be honest with you. It,   as I say, it doesn't hurt to have the fence  there. Um I don't know if it's necessary for   the outdoor space. The way that HUD looks at  the way that HUD looks at the outdoor space is   its noise sensitive uses. And that's where they  they have a 65 del um normally acceptable level.   Um whether or not a playground is a is a noise  sensitive use, it's up in the air. Um we treated  

it like it was in this case. Um but again, that's  that's just uh maybe in the eye of the beholder. I'm Jack McTor. Um, I just wanted just to  point out that we're uh this project is   trying to reach passive housing standards,  which means that these buildings actually   have more insulation than your standard  house. And um it'll do quite a quite a   bit in itself in the in the construction. When  you're building this to make it weatherproof,   you're also making it soundproof. and u the  passive housing standards that we're trying   to attain on this project will deaden a lot of  the sound that you would get from the highway   which is partly what he was explaining a few  minutes ago. Thank you. Any other questions? Um, yes. I just want to ask on project two, the  transformer that's being put in for the EV   chargers, will there be any sort of um enclosure  to that? I think believe we require some,   don't we? Didn't we put some just because I  know those can be noisy and that's closest   to the residential house that's right  there. That's why I pointed that out.   Yeah, that's that's a really good point because  our drawing just calls for a transformer on a I   believe yeah just calls for a transformer on  a pad but typically transformers have some   type of screening and uh have no objection to uh  providing some type of screening there for that   transformer. I think it's a good suggestion.  Thank you, Andrew. Corey, on the northeastern   corner of the site where you're bending the  corner and vehicles are going towards the exit,  

you have a blind corner with a confluence of  a pedestrian walkway, a crosswalk, and cars   backing into that blind corner through their  slotted parking spaces. Is there an ability to   add some design elements or mirrors or some sort  of uh awareness to that corner to help with that. I'm sorry. You're talking in right  here. Yeah. Where the crosswalk is?   Uh it's actually both corners. Yeah. So on the  northeastern corner, the back. Yes. Thank you.   No, I the landscape plan or the less the one this  plan below that helps a little bit more. Yeah,   exactly. You're talking about the corner up  by the uh where the generator is. Precisely.   Yeah. Okay. So, the I guess the quick response is  there I mean there is a there's a crosswalk there.   um signs. There's I I guess I'm more concerned  about the cars that are on the back side of that   turn blindly backing into where that crosswalk and  turn is because the people coming around that turn   are not going to be aware as well as the people  backing up where that meets. Yes. So there is   well I guess yeah I guess if the all the parking  stalls on the east side are filled it creates a   bit of a visual obstruction. The parking stalls  aren't filled you can see between the building   and the generator those two parking places. My  gut reaction is that when you see a crosswalk a   painted crosswalk at least my typical reaction  is to slow down. um that alone is uh a traffic  

calming or a slowing um mechanism. It's also a  you know a pretty steep corner which is designed   to slow traffic down and I think between the two  it it slows them down to a point where we didn't   foresee it as a problem with those spaces backing  out and someone coming around the corner. And this   this looks like a road but it's but it's really  function as a parking lot. So, the speed limit   should be more like a parking lot than a roadway.  You know, we're not I appreciate the sentiment   that you are both safe drivers. However, you have  um more than 127 occupants, probably closer to 220   occupants on this site. I'm not going to guarantee  that they're all going to be aware of that on top   of it. But it's kind of like a traffic calming.  In some ways, the uh parked cars are actually   a trafficcoming feature in itself. Put it this  way. Someone is blindly backing into a hairpin   turn with a crosswalk and other drivers. I'm not  going to take an assumption that it's going to   go safely. So, if we can add a mirror or a light  or some sort of element to draw awareness to it,   that would be very helpful. That's my only  point. Yep. Well, that'd be we can take that   into consideration. I think if the crosswalk moved  a little bit east away from that backing vehicle,   that might help, too. Yep. Yeah. Uh problem  is we're trying to come up the hill. We can   look into it, but um it's the same thing down in  the southeast corner. You know, you you got back   cars backing up over the crosswalk right there.  You can make raised crosswalks or something. So   that it is in fact a slowing element. I know that  they've done that now throughout Portsmith and it   has worked. It's worked internally in development  sites across different areas and plazas and what   have you. So I I actually the more I look at  it think it's a really good suggestion and and   seeing your point move this way this way though  entirely based you know if that crosswalk was  

raised and a caution sign was put there and  a sign prior to you getting to the sidewalk   you know speed table or raised sidewalk those  two in of itself are going to calm the traffic   before it approaches that corner. I mean, if you  want opportunities, like go to West End Yards,   they have a speed table. If you go to Portsmouth  Green, they have raised um granite curbing. Yeah.   And it works well. All of which definitely slow me  down. So, yeah. No, I I get your point and think   it's a good suggestion. And it's not hard to to  put a speed table there and a and a caution sign   that And if that's the biggest thing I'm griping  about, then you guys are doing okay. Like, yeah,   you know, you're in a good spot. When when you  first when I first look at it, I'm thinking,   "All right, it's a really sharp corner. Who's  really going to go that fast?" But you're right,   people. That's a long straightaways there. And  it's not The corner itself isn't going to slow   down young new drivers on their way to Dunkin  Donuts in the morning for their coffee. It's It   could be a problem. Well, specifically, if there  are no pedestrians there, too, right? Like in the   middle of winter, if there are no pedestrians and  people assume that nobody's going to walk across,   but in fact, somebody's backing out of  that space, that's an issue. So, yeah. No,   good point. Well taken. So, we all happy with  the raised crosswalk. Is that how that resolved?   Whatever works. Whatever works. Okay. The most  effective engineering solution is how I would vert   that. Most effective engineering solution might  be a little bit much. But any other questions?   I was leaving it in their hands. I do believe we  have public hearing on this even though it's Yeah,   I think we I'm going to have open the public  hearing. Anybody here or and I haven't forgotten   about the deputy city attorney um here on Zoom  will speak too for against this application. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, board members,  councelor Maro, uh Aaron Garganta,  

423 Colonial Drive. Uh been a lifelong resident  of Panway Manor. Um couple of questions that I   have and things for consideration regarding to the  traffic patterns of the property. Um I'm curious.   I I understand the reasoning for the two-way  entrance at the southernmost driveway,   but I think we're we're not really designing  amenities that are going to draw throngs of   people from elsewhere in the city of Portsouth  over to our little corner of the Portsouth world.   So, I think what I'd like I'd love to see from  a from a safety perspective is if that first   southernmost driveway could establish a one-way  entrance with a circulation pattern through the   entire property and a one-way exit. Um,  having driven that road my entire life,   um, when folks enter that neighborhood and come  inbound into Panway Manor and take that corner,   that driveway is going to be awfully close to the  corner. um which does seem to represent that it's   been smoothed out a little bit from its current  configuration where a couple years ago when they   put in sidewalks they put this god-awful bump out  which forces you to drive into the opposing lane   of traffic to navigate the corner. Um,  so when they change the radius of that,   folks are going to come around the corner and the  way the landscaping is planted on that corner,   you have the Amazon trucks, FedEx trucks, UPS  trucks for 127 units coming in and out of that   property. Um, a percentage of which are coming  out of that driveway, you're going to have some   interactions with inbound traffic to the Panway  Manor neighborhood. And if all of your exit from   that property comes from the northernmost  driveway, I think that's going to make for a   safer all-around project for the people that live  both in the complex and on the other side of the  

bridge. Um, my second comment is is on the exit.  I'd really love to see the development work with   the state DOT on their I95 property to pull the  fence that is currently right at the northern part   of the driveway. Um, if you're a pedestrian coming  over the bridge south riding a bike and or and or   in a vehicle, you literally cannot see a vehicle  exiting that property until you're in their fender   um from a pedestrian or cyclist standpoint. So,  as that sidewalk approaches the northernmost   driveway, if they could work with the DOT to pull  that fence to give an ample sight line for people   who are exiting the property and for pedestrians,  cyclists, and southbound motorists, I think that   would be a great improvement in safety um  to the exiting vehicles of that property.   Um, a question for these sound experts  is that your sound study was completed,   um, like you mentioned a year or two ago and  before this project starts, there will be a   20ft concrete sound barrier on the other side of  the highway, which I expect will reflect highway   noise back at this property. And I'm wondering  if your noise study is going to need to take   into consideration elevated noise levels because  of that new sound barrier. and I'll see you for   round two. Thank you. And just clarification,  there's no interaction between folks in the   audience. So you have a question, you raise it to  us and any any other I guess first round speakers. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, council.  Um I'm speaking in front of the council   uh board members and council moro. My name is  Manuel Gargant. I live at 471 Colonial Drive,  

Panway, Marina. Um, I see we're finally coming  to some type of fruition with this project that   feels like it's going on forever. Um, the question  I have, which council took care of the first one,   was who's going to maintain the front building  on on the project too? Uh, we had never heard   about two projects. The original um thing was one  project. We got the money and the way the federal   government's giving out money lately. I don't even  know if you're going to get that when you expect.   I have a question on the traffic study. Um I'm not  worried about the traffic on Sherban Road. We're   going to be changing Borthwick down on the bottom  end coming in at 8:00 in the morning off of Route   Three off of exit three. Everybody's heading to  the hospital. They're heading to Liberty Mutual.   I go out every morning around 8 o'clock. There  is a lot of traffic there. You're going to add   127 units to a facility that mostly everybody's  got two cars. I've never seen 1.6 cars driving   down the road. Um, so we're going to add at least  rough around 230 cars more. Of course, they all   leaving at different times, but I don't I never  saw anybody doing a traffic study. I never saw the   things across the road. I didn't see anybody with  counters. Was this done at midnight? I originally   the traffic study said you're going to get nine  extra trips during the day, 14 in the afternoon.   That ain't happening. When they change Kley Road  to cross over to Borthwick, people are going to go   out our way to avoid the mess that's down there.  We have to take a look at this traffic study. and  

I have never seen any traffic study presented  anywhere. Thank you very much. Thank you. Hello, my name is Eric Anderson. I live at  38 Georgia's Terrace. Um, thank you for this   opportunity. Um, this has been a project that is  I've watched and I think has taken a considerable   amount of time, but I guess we're getting closer.  Um, since the agenda kind of uh announced that   your concerns was with the highway noise overlay  district. I just want to recollect what I recall.   The New Hampshire DOT made assessment for what  areas qualified for construction of sound barriers   along the I95 corridor. These decibel levels did  not qualify the Sherban school. Since construction   along the west side of the quarter along Panway  Manor has begun, it's observed that these   sound barriers walls are all concrete and will  reflect sound to the east towards Sherban School versus absorbing any type of sound. Here's  my question. Has any recalibration or more   than an assumption of the sound results  from that from that sound wall on the   um west side of the highway been  calculated for your knowledge? Um, and for the residents inside the  building, we've heard some some, you know,   uh, testimony to say that the windows are going  to have um going to mitigate some of the sounds,  

but more importantly for the open and recreational  spaces, and we've heard some assumptions,   nothing with any type of qualitative recalibration  of what that additional sound attend continuating   toward the school is going to result  in. Um, if this has been a oversight,   should the planning board ask for additional  information and study clarifying this issue   and possibly engineering improvements? During  the summer months, there is a buffer area with   the foliage here, but there is none during  the spring, winter, or fall. So that so that   absorption of any of the foliage on that side on  the Sherbet side is non I don't say non-existent   but minimal and because this project doesn't have  any barrier any sound barrier um I'm wondering if   that's something that this that the planning  board um would consider necessary to mitigate   the increased amount of sound that's going  to be coming from the reflection of that   um of the sound barrier on the west side of the  highway. I'll be back. Thank you. Thank you. Any other first round speakers? Anybody on Zoom? Second round of speakers. Hello again. and Aaron Garganta, 423 Colonial  Drive. Um, it's only become recent information to   those of us in the neighborhood who participated  in the early discussions which originally started,   I think it was something like 160 to 180 units,  was originally proposed at a neighborhood meeting  

um, and then has since, you know, been massaged  down to 127. A big concern for the neighborhood   was seeing these large new buildings. Um I think  a great compromise was the preservation of the   existing school and using that to mask the new  construction behind it. Um I I think one of the   concerns that some of us have now with this being  a phase project is there doesn't seem to be any   kind of guarantee that phase 2 will occur um or  occur as proposed which is a 29 unit building   and the renovation of the school into I believe  eight units. Um, so I'm I'm curious, you know,   are there any opportunities within the lease  agreement that has yet to be signed with the city   um to put any language in that lease agreement  that states that the original school building   needs to be preserved and that we're not going to  end up with some threshold that says because of   the city's poor maintenance on the building over  the years that it has reached a point where it   is not salvageable or too costly to renovate.  At which time we will be back here trying to   get approved another 97 unit building because  it's quite a large footprint that is occupied   by the existing school and the 29 unit both  which are being deferred to phase two. So I   I would really feel more comfortable and I  think our neighbors would feel comfortable   all the people who have been living out there.  Um, you know, we have approximately 180 homes in   the entire neighborhood and we're now adding  127 more occupants to the neighborhood. So,   we're almost doubling the size of the  neighborhood. And I and I I just would   really regret to have to have conversations  about this in the future related to, you know,  

oh, I'm sorry, we can't do that building as we  intended. It's too costly. And here's, you know,   the ROI is better if we rip it all down and build  another four-story building. um with 90 units. So,   you know, my question is is there is there any  way to put into legal documents that the original   building will be preserved much like we've  preserved virtually every other old elementary   school in the city of Portsmouth. U we didn't  rip many of them down. They've all been turned   into senior housing or other forms of housing.  Uh so I I don't think it's an unreasonable ask   to preserve this building both for its its  stated historical value. It's uh value to   those people who have been in the neighborhood for  generations. Um and uh yeah, I think that's all I   had to add was related to that. Um thank you very  much. Thank you. Any other second round speakers? Yes, Eric Anderson, uh, Portsmith. I want to just  re reiterate what the previous speaker said. Um,   I don't know whether it's within the realm of  the planning board to make recommendations to   the city council, but I've read the option  lease agreement a number of times. I'm not   the best guy to read some of this, some of the  legal, you know, components of it, but I didn't   find anything in there that obligated um in any  final agreement that PHA will have responsibility   of those of that building. It's kind of great.  I know I appreciated Trevor's interpretation   of it and we're just making some assumptions,  but I hope in the final lease agreement that  

there is a um distinct language that places the  maintenance of that building the responsibility   um of PHA when the property is transferred.  There seems to be enough time if you have any   reservations about the way the project has been  presented to you tonight. Um, if you want to   um postpone the acceptance of this proposal,  there seems to be an adequate amount of time   before any funding takes place, which is I think  PHA is scheduled to receive final determination   of any funding in early December. And I think I  understand that any final lease agreement wouldn't   be till the end of December. So if there's any  other, you know, additional information that makes   you feel comfortable in accepting this proposal,  um you have the time to state your concerns and   those concern and those the answers to those  concerns can be addressed at another time. um   if you decide to postpone this or table it at this  particular moment. Thank you very much. Thank you. [Music] Manny Gargan 471 Colonial Drive. Um I want to  reiterate what these the previous speakers have   said. People ask what's so important about that  school? That school is generational. A lot of   people went to that school. My whole family  went to that school. My three sons, my wife,   her family. Uh it's I know it's just bricks and  mortar, but there's a lot more to that place   than just bricks and mortar. We've saved every  school in in the city of Portsouth. They've turned  

it into something. To reiterate what Aaron  said, uh I'd like to see that school stay.   to see bricks and mortar out there. I can see what  they're doing. Hide them down back. Fine. Don't   bring those things forward. Leave that school. The  the beehive to me is a Koopa. Uh it's uh it's a a   it's a point where people recognize. I know it's  only for the people out there, but there's been a   lot of uh families out there that have been there  60 70 years. Long time. Please consider that.   If we do a ground lease, let's write that in  because, you know, like I said before, the federal   government is not handing out money anymore. Um,  they may only get the first phase. The second   phase, you see it every day in the news. They're  cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting. They're not   going to be paying attention to Portsouth. I  appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you. Any other second round speakers? Corey, did you speak in the first round? I did   not. You're not allowed to  speak in the second round. Any third round speakers? Seeing none, I'm going to  close the public hearing.   And just for the record, I did ask the deputy  city attorney, not the deputy city manager. I   apologize for that mistake. Um, to provide a  letter which I'm going to put in the record,   but he has given us an opinion and would  you like to just explain it briefly, Trevor,

since I'm losing my voice? Yes. Thank you, Mr.  Chairman. Um, so, so I'd like to just explain   a little bit the the legal authority for the  construction of below market rate housing on   city property here and why um, we have the we're  offering to you this the city's offering to you   and PHA is offering to you the the review of this  project that you're being offered. And at the end,   I I would I have one other little piece that  I'd like to just ask of the board as well uh,   while we're here. Um so um under state law um use  of government property uh municipal property for   what's called governmental use is generally exempt  from uh from zoning review. Now those projects   still have to come before the planning board for  non-binding comment. Um and and it brings us to   the definition of what is a governmental use. Now  the statute provides both uh what is traditionally   a governmental use and what is statutoily  authorized as a governmental use. And in   my opinion this is this is both the sh using the  Sherburn property for below market rate housing   is both traditionally governmental in nature and  statutoily. There's a specific statute um relating   to to housing authorities um which which permits  local municipalities to contract with their local   housing authority to for the construction  of below market rate housing on municipally   owned property. Further, this project is also  traditionally governmental in nature. Uh we know   that here in Portsouth because we have several uh  several properties. One right across the parking   lot which which is housing on city property. Um  clearly Portsouth has a long tradition of using   government of municipal property for below  market rate housing. Therefore this project   certainly falls under that criteria. Now, the  policym body uh here in the city, the the city  

council has entered in has authorized the city  manager to enter into an agreement with PHA um   in what's called a a land use compliance agreement  that sets out the parameters by which you and the   ultimately the city manager will have to review  the project that PHA is proposing. This is this   is the framework that you have to review. the the  the two biggest things two two biggest pieces of   that are the site plan review regulations and the  highway noise overlay district regulations. Um,   also contained in that agreement um is is a review  of this project relative to the RFP which was put   out um relative to the Sherburn property, PHA's  response to that RFP, any agenda to the RFP. And   then there's also the the catchall clause at the  end which is what review in the best interest of   the city. Um and PHA's proposal and all of your  comments and all the comments that have been made   and all the the public the the public sessions the  comments made at TAC. All of that is is going to   go after this meeting to the city manager for her  final approval. So, this is my ask of of all of   you because you're the planning board and the city  council has specifically asked for your review   subject to those criteria. So, all the commentary  that you've had so far is is really great. I mean,   I've been listening closely. I'm sure the city  manager is listening closely. And I would ask that   any other recommendations that you have for the  development of the site, you put into the record   here, you memorialize into some comments that can  go to the city manager for her consideration. Now,   I will say there's been a lot of comment  commentary about the ground lease. Now,   a ground lease I I would I would tell you you  don't have to concern yourself with a ground lease   right now because a ground lease is an interest  in land. And the z the ordinance also provides  

that the only body that can uh alienate or accept  interest in land in the city is the city council,   but they can only do so after they receive a  recommendation from the planning board. Therefore,   when a when a ground lease is drafted, that  document will have to come back to you all for   comment before it goes back to the city council  for their final acceptance or or rejection. Um,   based on all that, I'd be happy to answer any  and all questions that anybody might have. Yes,   m just so I make sure the public understands  when that ground lease comes back to us though,   it's not a public hearing. It's just for  us to discuss and make comments back,   but people could then speak at the city council  meeting. I just want to make sure it's clear when   people want might want to speak about that.  Um, sure. There there wouldn't necessarily   be there would not be a public hearing on that  either here or at the city council. Um, unlike   the planning board, the city council does have  public comment kind of built in as a function.   Um, but certainly either either entity could  suspend its rules and accept accept more public   comment or or ask staff to schedule a public  hearing on it. There'd be no limitation on that,   but it wouldn't be it would not be inherent.  It's not required. Not required. Yes. Thank you. Any other question? Yes, Bill. How  can we uh increase the likelihood that   this will comply with the noise  overlay district requirements? Can you Well, um, PHA has pursuant to the  requirements in the highway nos overlay district,   PHA has contracted with a an expert who's  brought a report back to you regarding   um regarding his findings uh for noise at the  site. Now, I understand that there's been some   some comment about perhaps changing conditions uh  or or questions about the viability or necessity  

of a fence. Um if certainly the board could could  make some sort of commentary based on what it's   heard to the city manager, some recommendations  about some things that she may ask. In addition,   um I mean, I encourage you to treat this like  a project, like any other project. I mean,   you can place you can recommend the  placement of conditions that have to   be satisfied either before or after  the issuance of a building permit. Um   um and that could be for for more information.  That could be for the the placement of a fence   if that's what the board decided uh would help  the project comply with the highway noise overlay   district. Um does that help somewhat? I mean,  I'm not a I'm not a noise uh expert certainly   uh so I I can't really tell you what what  would help alleviate noise concerns myself. Any other questions for deputy city attorney? Thank you, Trevor. Thank you. So I didn't stop the discussion because but we are  supposed to stop at 10 and talk about whether we   continue. Yeah. Um 10:30. We definitely need  to finish with this application. But uh we if   we're going to go further, we need to vote  to do that or we continue the other items.   Move to continue. Second. Second. We have  a motion to continue the other items in a   second. Any discussion? What's the motion?  To continue the other items on the agenda   after finish our agenda including this or No,  we're going to finish this one. Okay, good. Did I read? You said including this  one. You said no. We're finished with  

this one. We're finishing. Finishing  this one. Finishing. I'm sorry. got   a frog in my throat. Okay. All  those in favor? I. Any opposed? So, this will be the last one tonight.  Discussion. I have a quick question. Um,   is the Sherburn House on an any historic  register whether city, state, federal?   Not that I'm aware of. All right, Peter. I don't  think that. Not that we're aware of. Trevor McCart   may have something to say about that. Oh, he  might. Maybe I'm wrong. Um, if you want, I can   answer the question. It's It is not at this time.  I understand that part of uh uh PHA's funding um   plan would be to apply for historic tax some sort  of historic tax credits uh which which would um   involve some historic restrictions on the being  placed on the property. Would it require being   put on the historic register that you know I don't  know that there are varying levels of that. Yeah. I could make a recommendation that uh to ensure  the building is maintained, but even though it   seems Trevor is comfortable with that. Yes,  Andrew. Yeah, I'm I definitely get all of the   comment. I definitely get the notion to have some  sort of binding agreement. In the excerpt that is   included with this, it says, "If this city manager  approves a project, any material changes to those   items subject to review pursuant to the city site  plan review regulations to the form of substance  

of approved projects shall only be made following  a written request from ports of housing." So yes,   if the if PHA wanted to knock down that school,  they would have to come back here and literally   ask that exact question explicitly and that would  not go well. And I do not think I would be voting   for that if they wanted to knock it down. So,  uh I take comfort in the fact that any material   change such as knocking down a school um would  have to come back before us. And uh I also think   that there's a pretty large community over there  in the Sherburn neighborhood that would probably   have something to say about it. So I have strong  confidence in the way it is written now as well as   the site plan we're approving. Uh in addition  to that, I don't think that PHA is going to   jeopardize their federal funding by trying  to circumvent this school building. So to me,   I I it does not bother me how it's written now.  I yeah, we can say it into the record that we   want to recommend maintaining this school for  the duration of this project and thereafter,   however, it needs to be in the development  proposal, but it doesn't scare me how it's   written at this moment. Yes, Beth. I would like  to second everything Andrew said and just remind   everyone that this is also the organization that  refurbished the Lafayette school, right? So,   they actually have a history of taking some of our  older buildings that were schools and turning it   into public housing, including the cottage across  the way. So, I I think that they have a history of   doing it. They're already planning on trying to  use heritage tax credits in order to do it. So,   it's in their best interest as well to maintain  the property so that it can qualify for some of   the funding sources that they want to go down.  So, I'm with you in the fact that I think that the   way it's written works right now and don't have a  whole lot of heartburn over moving forward knowing  

that they would have to come back if anything to  that plan changed. I I get those points. My my   concern is it's phase two and if things get held  up so that phase two can't happen for more than a   year and a half, say it's three, four, five years  out, they still have to maintain. Yeah. Well,   if we if it's maintained, if it's heated, in  particular. That's the key. Well, that would it we   can't make it a condition. I'm just saying but as  we've heard here tonight on the record it's under   way it was represented they have to maintain it.  So right and and with that understanding I'll drop   the issue and let's just it would yeah it would  just be gross negligence on their part and I don't   think they want to jeopardize the way that all of  these tax credits work. there is review at every   threshold. And so to disregard those and and not  go through with that would inherently jeopardize   their entire project and they could be pulled from  the middle of the project if that's the case. And   that I I simply do not think that is going to  happen. Um Greg, anyone else having to say? I   I would actually like to ask Peter a question if I  could. So I in my mind I'm thinking it's probably   valid to ask them to relook at the sound after the  sound walls are up. So would we put that into like   an amendment to the findings of fact or put it  into a condition condition of the conditional use?   I and to dovetail on that, if I may, the sound  report is lengthy and all-encompassing except for   when the sound expert stood up here and said he  doesn't know or nor does he have a recommendation   about offense. And so that didn't make me feel all  warm and fuzzy inside and leads me to believe that   we should probably recommending offense whether  that's post certificate of occupancy based on I   think it could be part of the condition that  they relook at it and figure out whether or  

not offense or some unless unless I've heard it  incorrectly. I well what I what I heard was that   it's been a while since he looked at it. So  if we made a condition that it would that it   would be re-examined in light of current known  conditions and a recommend recommendation made   to staff as to whether a fence or other things  are needed. I think that would work because I   also heard that the way this building is going  to be built they may not need it right and that   might be a possibility that's that's above us  for sure. He probably knows the answer but he   doesn't know it tonight for NX 2.0 I know, but  given that it's a playground and this entire   thing is built on community and simulating a good  environment. Yeah. It's just like that's my that's   if that's the condition. I think that covers it.  I think it's post postdevelopment. Yep. Well,   it'd be under the conditional use permit  for the highway o over noise highway noise   overlay district. Okay. Well, should I just get us  started because nobody else is. Um, vote to find   the conditional use permit application meets  the requirements set forth in section 10.674   of the ordinance and recommend the city manager  adopt the findings of fact as presented. Second.   Second. Any discussion? All those in favor? I.  Any opposed. And then I will vote to recommend   the city manager approved conditional use permit  as presented for project one on the condition of   relooking at the sound based off of the changes  that are happening in that area. Specifically,   the sound walls going up to ensure the plan  that is in place will accommodate and work   moving forward or something like that. Yeah, you  got me Peter second or something like that. Was

that incorporating the re-examine based on  current conditions? Right. Right. Re-examining   looking at based and see if the current plan is  still satisfies. Yeah. The requirements. Yeah. Peter's writing. So I think he's got it.  I think he does. He keeps writing. That's   why I haven't gone on. Go ahead. Um, I think  that's the only one I want under that one. So,   I think we've them vote and then we have the  other one. We got We had a second on that,   right? Yep. Second. Any discussion? All those  in favor? Oh, go ahead, Bill. No, I you were I   thought you were looking for a second. Oh, okay.  All those in favor? I. Any opposed? And I will   continue to say that we vote to recommend the  city manager approve the conditional use permit   as presented for project two. Second the same.  Um, I think it would be satisfied by that point.   I would hope. So, no. All those in favor? I. Any  opposed? All right. Um, vote to find that the site   plan application meets requirements set forth in  the site plan regulations section 2.9 evaluation   criteria and recommend the city manager adopt the  findings effect as presented for projects one and   two. Second. Discussion. All those in favor? I any  opposed? And then we have to vote to recommend a   city manager grant the site plan approval for  project one with the following conditions that   are in here. Um subsequent or no precedent. I keep  saying it wrong because it's written on precedent.   Um and the ones satisfied subsequent. Yep. Okay.  And then there's another one. Um but I sorry I   have some notes. I have to go back to my prior  page to get to them. If I get a second. Yeah,   there was a second, I think. Was there a second?  Okay, I think there was. Oh, yes. Um I would like  

to add a condition precedent that they at least  look at the um two issues regarding the traffic   flow, the the one request about whether or not  because it is really close to that corner and   thinking about cars pulling out there. Um, I  understood the reason why they did it, but also   especially knowing that the um, I know it would be  hard to work with the DOT, but to really look at   the sight lines coming in and out of the project  and to see if one way in and one way out might be   a better solution in the end. Just be nice if they  took one more look at that and, you know, really   ensure that it's going to work for the property  and for the neighborhood. And then those two   pedestrian crossings. Oh, yes. And the pedestrian  crossings we had all that conversation about   And the other one will wait till  the other one. Yeah. Andrew,   those are two two raised pedestrian  crossings. That was that that's in   this angled out the east side north and  south of the Yes. big building. Yeah. I think that was all of those right for  that one. I believe. Any other discussion?   All those in favor? I. Any opposed?  All right. Then we move on to vote to   recommend the city manager grant site plan  approval for project two with the included   um stipulations. And the only one to add to this  one is that they reook at the transformer for the   um EV chargers. That's part of project two to  ensure that it has proper either screening or   fencing, whatever might be needed cuz I worry  about the noise and the neighbor that is so close   to that just to make sure it's good. Just double  check it. Unless second unless somebody else had  

something else. Discussion. Um, just to reiterate  everything we just talked about. 2.1 of this is   the applicant has two years from the issuance  of a building permit on project one to obtain   a building permit for project two which there  in lies your answer about the school right it   helps it helps two years unheated doesn't help but  yeah it helps all those in favor I I any opposed okay that I did I think I did them [Music]   job. Really great. I'm like running out  of words to say. Thank you everybody. Thank you all for your thoughtful  consideration. We appreciate it.   Thanks for good. We are adjourned. What? We have