City Commission - Regular Meeting

Commission meeting for the budget workshop is called to order on Thursday, April 16th, 2026 at 5:00 p.m., I have a moment of silence for those in our community that need our support.

Okay. Now, please join me in the pledge of allegiance. [clears throat] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to [clears throat] the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Get roll call when you're ready, sir. Commissioner Bryson here. Mr. Hendri here. Commissioner Clawson here. Commissioner O'Brien. Commissioner Rory here. Mayor Vandenblash here. Commissioner May City Manager Reeves here.

And I know Commissioner O'Brien will not be here for the workshop tonight and Commissioner May will be here shortly. And can I have a motion to approve the agenda as presented? So move support. All in favor? I I.

And now we're on to public comment. This is the time for public comment. Any member of the public may address the city commission on any topic. Please step to the podium, state your name for the record, and be heard. No commissioner, department head, or city staff will respond. The city manager will follow up on public comments as necessary. Please limit your comments to five minutes. Please direct all comments to me as the meeting chairperson. Please refrain from the use of profanity and do not direct any comments to any other members of the public. Is there anybody who'd like to speak tonight? Any like to speak tonight? Okay. hearing and seeing none, we'll move on to the fiscal year 202627 budget.

Thank you, [clears throat] mayor and councel for our commission for coming back uh for uh another workshop on the budget. I hope to uh make this uh um um flow a little bit better. First thing I want to do is um I prepared documentation that you have in front of you in regards to uh questions you had yesterday.

Um so the first thing I'll do right off the top is you'll see that there is a um inner office memorandum on a from the city attorney on whether a special assessment district is subject to a public referendum. I gave it to you earlier. I will make sure that I get a ch I mail it or email it out to you as well so you have it for your files. You have a paper copy here. Um basically bottom line and uh is the short answer as you indicate in section two. The answer is no. The state law allows for the SAD process expressly authorized that is done by resolution. A resolution is decision is not subject to a referendum under the city of Marine charter. So, um I did not get an opportunity to go back in time and determine um what vehicle they chose before, if they chose it by ordinance, if they chose I I'm not sure what the issue was, but according to state law and based upon the way we presented this uh is not subject to a citizen referendum. the city attorney as soon as he grabs his pizza.

We're going to be talking about that at the regular meeting anyway. Uh yes, we will. So I would leave that for that. Okay. So, but as you requested, that information is available. The second thing is uh um in regards to the medical opt out, the total amount is 20 is 72,000 for 12 people. Um I'll give you an example. uh a family cost uh a single cost if I recall correctly is uh sometimes around 8,000 8,000 plus a family cost depending upon how many children the age of the people sometimes ranges is between 22 to 24,000

uh as you know kids are now kept I think to the age of 26 uh under that insurance so at $6,000 it's significantly less than the cost if if the employee was to take the insurance. Um, I advise you that I would give you that information so you're aware of that. Okay. Can I stop? Um, I did find out that at the county level they only charge they only pay out $500 difference. Okay.

Okay. Just a note. Um, building official permits. There's a sheet that shows uh the payments for the last two fiscal years. Uh if you look at the completed fiscal year which would be the one that says 7124 to 630 at 25 uh you'll note that the total amount expent and I highlighted it for you shows by inspector um the highlighted amount at the bottom uh uh also includes um some things that aren't charged through the inspectors but we're charged this account at $74,11. $1. So if you minus the 3631 from there, you see it was in the high60s range. And then for 2025 to 2026, which is this current fiscal year, uh note uh uh this is uh up to uh is this to date? Pretty close. You know,

it's anything we have today, but it looks like uh I know one was just posted January. So March hasn't been paid yet. But if you look at here, so I I'll call it three quarters of the year down um and minus $500. Uh the amount we're at is $55,000. Um can you tell me who's I get the TK inspections, but what are the other three? Can you tell me which ones are which? Which one's mechanical, which one's electrical guy? Ryan Bulock is a sub, I believe. Um or Mark Schwarz, he's electrical. He's electrical. And then William Krauss is the plumbing. Okay. And mechanical. I'm sorry. He has two certifications.

So, you requested that information and I've supplied that as well. [clears throat] Uh I'm um still looking at the um it'll take some time to flesh out all the questions in regards to the financial software, the private uh assessors, the private contracted inspectors. Yeah.

Um those [clears throat] kind of questions um will take some time. The next issue I'll jump to is you wanted to know uh what we estimate the costs for the $3 million sanitary and storm emergency CIP bond that was taken out. Uh as I've indicated several times in commission meetings, uh right now it appears that uh the repairs are going 20% to sanitary, 80% to storm. uh as I indicated yesterday and previously at meetings only the sanitary portion can be directed to uh sewer and water which would be the sewer count. The storm cannot that has to come out of general fund. So for most people's homes the 0.75 or what we call the 3/4 meter size per quarter the additional charge for that $3 million loan will be $4.86 86 cents onto their sewer. That'll show up as a debt uh uh service, sewer debt service, an additional line, and that's how it'll be called out. So, if you did 486 for four quarters, it's a total of $1944 additional per year.

How many years is this bond? These bonds,

uh until we pay it off. You know what? I didn't grab that eye, Paul. I'm trying to remember that we did short. Uh, I think it is a 20-year bond and we have the ability to pay it off early. As you see, it's 226 a year estimated. Um, now this may fluctuate if we get further in and we find that there's even more storm and less sanitary. Uh, obviously we'd make uh uh adjustments down the line, but what we're seeing so far uh and the uh repairs that I've gone through uh this is where we're at. So, that's the estimate that you asked for uh and how that would affect the water and sewer bills. Uh questions?

Um not on those. No. Okay. I I'm going to take other questions. I'm just trying to get through the ones that were still open from last night that I wrote down.

Um the next one what may take some time. Um I think we we've gone [clears throat] over it a couple times, but I'll be happy to uh expand upon it. Uh uh somebody asked or there's collections of uh how do we come up with a $650,000 deficit this year? And um the long story short is that we've been carrying this deficit for a while. The only thing that massed the deficit was the use of ARPA funds a few years ago. Um, very candidly, if you if everybody remembers in the budget that was approved, we approved using fund balance from the general fund in order to apply it to a deficit. Uh, my mind tells me that was about a $400,000 deficit. I I don't have that figure right in front of me. And then we've had budget amendments for emergent issues and things that come up that also gets added to that deficit. So candidly, it's been a carryover and and really, as I indicated yesterday, we're at the point that can can't be kicked anymore. The general fund can't afford to keep covering the deficits, and we either have to rightsize service, uh, cut expenses, or increase revenues, or a combination of both. I'd be happy to go into greater detail on that. I know we've talked about it, uh, um, a number of different times. Um, but that's the short explanation, if you will. We can get into detail and depth on it if you'd like or I can answer other questions before we get into the main budget.

Um, the only thing I have is these were the sheets that we got in the last budget and I wondered if these are the water rate issues. I wondered if those even if which budget please? Last year's last year. Okay. So even if it's not going to increase, can these sheet same type of sheets be put into this book? Yes. So understand this is all it's been in flux. Yeah.

Okay. Everybody's got to get that all everything we're doing is in flux. It's it's real time. You know, we're spitting out numbers that were different a week ago and they're going to be different in a month. So, uh, and in terms of, uh, getting, uh, the correct numbers from, we're not doing those. The Michigan Ral Water Association is generating that. So, we're we're working with other people. And, um, as I've explained a couple times at different meetings, we needed to get into the repairs in order for us to make a determination of what that split would be. We couldn't do it beforehand. So obviously when we come to uh put together the final budget or a draft budget that type information will be in there.

That page though was manual. That's what like Mary Ellen used to use to manually tell Oh, that's I thought you said it was from last budget. Yeah, we did it last year, but then we had a rate study done and now we use the rate study to tell us what the rates are. But there still should be some sheet in there spelling this out so that people understand it. Okay, I'll take a look at them. I'll see if we can re reproduce something with it or take something from our rate study and stick it into the budget.

This is something that's always and I know yet Mary Ellen did them for years, but it's always been in there, but it's another tool so that when people if they ever look at this budget, they can see this information on these water bills. Okay? If there's no increase, great. They can see that there's no increase from this year, from last year. But they should be in there. I mean, it's just another tool for everybody to use. Okay. Yeah. If you'll give me a copy of those tonight before we leave, I'll make sure and we'll we'll see if we can recreate. You have them. We'll recreate them or see if we can add something from the current rate study that was done. You can go in the old budget, the last year's budget. They're right in under the water section. Okay.

We'll just have to take the info from the rate study and put it in a spreadsheet. Okay. Any other questions I can answer in regards to the topics I just covered? Are you ready for me to get into the budget? Absolutely.

So, we're going to start with the general fund recap again. Um, as you look at the numbers, a couple things have changed since yesterday. These numbers reflect your um agreement in terms of what the proposed cuts were less the items that you told us to put back in. So what was an agreement yesterday including what was put back in is now placed in the budget. So you can see it. Mhm.

You'll see on the front page there, the subtotal now in terms of of um deficit is $278,697. If you look on the bottom and notes and changes from last fiscal year, you'll see the headley uh roll back uh what is projected at 14.2755. It's another 9823 reduction, additional less revenue, uh approximately 33,000 less than last year. That will continue to go down every year as I've explained for uh previously. The $3 million bond interest payments are due again, 80% storm. That total is $174,179. Sales tax and CBT funds for the state are reduced due to the shift to Act 51 funds. That's an additional $15,000. Election costs increased in due to two elections this year uh in this budget cycle from no elections last year. Projected landfill costs were put in a minimum place mark. Street lighting increased uh uh a little bit and no control on that as we're build at DTA DTE's rates and everybody's seen that DTE is getting regular rate increases as we move along. We noted the departments that are reduced the departments that were increased and and when we talk increased it doesn't necessarily uh mean a it doesn't mean a wage increase it may it there may be a factor involved in that. as an example uh special projects as you recall I cut that significantly the landfill is under special projects so when you budget for that that's why you see it as an increase okay and then if you notice uh

the capital allocation purchases the only item that we have right now for CIP in the entire city is the 25,000 being saved for the mandated election equipment that you agreed to last The revenues are all the same except for one revenue when I talked to you yesterday about the planning and the special uh projects administrator. Uh under the second page 101634 planning commission review fee. You see uh the revenues are now at 16,500. That's the additional 15,000 was added to that. So, I put 15,000 into part-time salary and then I took 15,000 as a revenue to cross the 15,000 more that'll take out of special projects. So, my hope was under the uh escrow policy that we're able to capture um $15,000 worth of his services, bill people direct based off their credit card. So, it's a in andout if you will. Um, one of those things that I'm hopefully going to have finished here soon is the fee schedule and uh we'll talk about uh I believe there's a need to place an administrative charge on some of those uh costs and the time commitment in order to help recoup those costs. So the amount of people and the amount of projects that we work on very candidly that never come to fruition and they take it elsewhere, there's going to be a cost for that. So that's how I hope to recoup that. Other revenues are unchanged except

the pill. Oh, I'm sorry. Except for the PILT. You want to call that out? Yeah. Uh that's so the whole that's the DNR site. Their whole bill is 18,000. We have to move. We only get a portion. So I had to reduce that. So that's at 8,500. Mhm. Everybody's familiar with Pilts.

Well, why don't you explain for everybody? So PILTS the basic word are pilots are are are payment in lie of taxes. Um it it it doesn't make a lot of sense when when somebody gets a tax abatement then they arrange a a pilt but basically in lie of paying taxes based upon what program they be in we come to an agreement where um they'll pay a pilt which is a payment of taxes. So basically it's a a cash or uh res revenue amount that we we take in. Uh I've seen it used in a number of different projects where there's a tax incentive but there's a concern of u services being used uh some businesses may use service a bar will use services uh more so than a storage facility. So they take a PILT or a payment in with taxes in hopes to equal out the cost of providing those services. Um we don't have a lot of pilts in the city at this point. I mean it's always something that if somebody's looking for something we will discuss that and if they ask for this we'll on the back end say well we're going to be looking for a PILT in regards to that. But other than the pilt, the change in that number, uh there's no other revenue increases. Any questions? Okay, we're going to start rolling through these a little bit just so you can see what has been changed. Wages elected officials down to $7. I think that's self-explanatory. The 15,000 has been removed. city manager wages, as you see, they're down and it's spread out across a couple different funds. In addition, all the other cuts that I made uh to that budget are also gone.

City clerk wages for part-times employees have been reduced. Increase. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Yeah, it wasn't there before.

Employees been the employees hours have been reduced. the part-time wages were increased to reflect that being a part-time position. Thank you for correcting me going too fast. Um, as you look through the rest of that rest of that budget, the only other thing you'll see, let me look through it real quick. Nope, that's it. That's that's the only other thing that's uh remarkable there other than the previous cuts that we've talked about. External audit nothing changes actuarial services nothing changes information technology at this point.

Wait wait wait wait let me stop you there. But if what if we have to do an actuarial the last few years the pension fund has paid for them. Well, now we are uh doing a couple um studies in order to determine uh pension payouts. Uh I hoping that those will both be paid out of this fiscal year. Okay. So, information and technology as you look through here I nothing really has changed here as well. Uh I gave you the update in terms of your requests uh previously. Grand Administration. You see that's been zeroed out.

Folks, I'm only serving the way it is. I'm good. Thank you. You [laughter] sure? Yes, I'm good. Thank you. Didn't she tell me we're going to pizza? All right. I'll certainly Thanks, Bob.

Um, Treasure Finance, you look, there's been changes there. If you look at part-time employees, that's been zeroed out. including the fringes in terms of that those have been reduced along with the other cuts that I made the sector equalization that's the same that's contractual the county elections the only change you're going to see there is down at the bottom the interf fund transfers out to save for the new mandated equipment 25,000 times two You'll see that's in the budget requested for 2627. That's the CIP item that I told you about.

Okay. Question on that. When's the last time we bought equipment, a new machine? Jason, I'm sorry. When was the last time we bought new machine? 2024, but that is irrelevant. The state mandates when you need equipment. I understand that. I just want to know when we bought it. Okay. building and grounds. There's been some reductions in the building and grounds in the areas that I indicated previously, supply lines, uh cost lines and things of that nature. On this one, we did reduce election inspector compensation too.

Yeah, that was according to what we gave them though. Yeah. Yep. This one.

Yeah. Any of the cuts you proposed are now in here. Building the ground, same thing. Nothing's changed other than the cuts that you looked at yesterday. Attorney Corporation, for your request, I did cut that to $35,000 like you asked. You want me to include the pizza in there or do you want me to [laughter] Oh, he's sitting here. No, we left that just as it was. Uh that line I'm just messing with the attorney. Um, [clears throat] we left that at the, uh, indicated amount that it was before. Uh, and I'll have a discussion with the attorney in regards to uh, um, cost containment and ideas. I'll work with him in order to uh, keep that line within budget as much as possible.

I've looked at the budget and I'm going to reduce our rates by 10%. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Huh? It's done. Thank you. I'm put it in writing here real quick if you don't mind. [laughter] We need so I remember. We need blood for that. No, no. Just so I remember on it. Going to have to cut your wrist now. So, um

human resources. Um that hasn't changed. Special projects, you'll see the changes there. You look under wages, part-time employees, you'll see the 30,000 there, but that's a reflection of that 15,000 uh escrow, 15,000 pay, but we picked up the 15,000 in the revenue. So, the extra 15's a wash. Okay. Okay. Following me there? Mhm.

And then as you look down, you'll see uh the other items that I talked about previously. Everything else you'd agreed to cut has been removed. police. You'll see the reduction there. You'll see an increase in the part-time employees. That is to take into account the first of all the full-time employees is the reduction of one one spot uh two spots actually and then the wage part-timers increase to pick up the chief coming back to work after a 30-day uh period in order to meet the requirements. There were some other additional cuts that I'd made in that budget. Um, they're all as they were previously submitted to you. Fire is down as I indicated you yesterday from previous year. Inspections and code enforcement. I gave you the information regarding line 101371 802 contractual services. Again, the $100,000 is an estimate. As I look at what I pre presented tonight, and we track that, we're uh last year we're at 74. My concern again is if if I try to cut that uh significantly and these permits hit, then we're going to be looking for money. I would much rather uh track it throughout the year. If we need to make a budget amendment or need to move money between lines, I can do it then. I'd rather have it in the budget for it than have to look for the money after the fact. In the same token, I I've got my marching orders from you in regards

to um uh those services, and I'll keep working on that. Department of Public Works has not changed from what I gave you yesterday. The cuts that I proposed in terms of some um supply accounts and that type of things have been instituted. I've kept the wages for the employees at the uh at the level that they were previously. You'll note the capital uh equipment, the back hole uh has been removed from the CIP. Um so they have a 2005 backhoe that has been the one they've been using the most. The 2018 had been um out for repairs. It just returned. I will tell you I will be coming back to the commission. Um once I get through the the largest part of this budget process, I'm going to be looking uh specifically at a lease purchase agreement for a new camel. um based upon what I've seen over the last two years and the use of the camel and what we project we'll need it going forward and the current condition of the camel we have and then what we paid and jet and cleaning costs I I think it uh would be very coste effective for us to at this point uh get credit for the camel we have get a new camel has the features that we need and then reduce outside firms terms doing that work and then I'll be able to pay that over four years uh out of the sewer and water funds, roads funds that'll all contribute. It'll come out of those funds. The one I'm looking at now is approximately $66,000 a year for four years plus the tradeins in that. I'll have to do some work on it yet, but I

just want to make you aware I will be coming back for that. Engineering hasn't changed as I told you before. That's a problem. um we continue at that number. Um I I don't plan on changing at this point, but uh I I've made it clear that that becomes problematic. Street lightning I just talked about. Um based on where we're at now and what we're requesting and what I'm seeing in DTE increases, uh I talked to Katie about it today. I have a concern whether that's going to be enough. very candidly and looking at what's coming out and and tracking the rates and watching what's happened here. I I told her earlier I'm I'm thinking they're going to be coming in at like 129 or something like that. I'm a little I'm a little concerned about that, but at this point here, it is what it is. There's nothing I can do to change that. So, we've got it at 120 rubbish collection. This is the last year of the contract. understand that that we're paying a little bit more right now because the diesel cost writer has uh increased significantly. So, we're probably at the top of the chart in terms of diesel fuel add-on. Uh most major suppliers now do that. We'll have to negotiate an additional rubber rubbish collection disposal contract going forward besides the other contracts we have. Watershed has not changed. Safety program has not changed. Planning has not changed. Zoning has not changed. I gave you previous information what we're trying to do in zoning. Recreational facilities has not changed. You'll note the full-time employees and part-time employees there. The full-time employees are a sprinkling of the DPW people that

are amongst multiple different accounts. Part-time or all your seasonal people. Um I don't think there's anything else in there. We did cut some supplies or combine some at this point here. Um, but I don't see anything that uh is of any significance that's going to stick out unless you have a question. Library is basically uh uh in and out. You see we don't put very much there. Uh we are billing now for services at the library back to the county similar to what we're doing with the state with MDOT. We weren't charging them for lawn cutting and snow removal and all that. We are doing that now. We have a water bill now too.

And a water bill now.

Um historical commission. You see um that budget has been zeroed. That's in line with the discussion that I had yesterday um with the commission on multiple different committees that I have concern about. Um I I didn't tell you that, but I we did start the process today with two of our commissioners of lining up uh a number of uh different committees to be looked at by the ordinance review committee. uh the clerk, the city attorney, and myself in order to determine what it takes to um end those committees work. Um so we've got three or four of them right now. We're going to look at at our next meeting. As I indicated to you, those need to cease. And last not least is the museum. And as you see, there's reality is there's really nothing there. Questions I can answer based upon what I showed you here. Okay, I'm going to go over to the sewer and water. So, first we'll look at sewer. Um, not a lot has changed from what we gave you. Note the the the numbers in red are not deficit. Those are restricted. I just want to make sure everybody catches that. That's not a deficit. Those are restricted funds. And it Katie has indicated what those are restricted for. You see we have a uh a uh an ending balance which is uh nice to see uh minimal but nice to see. It's it's a

start. This hasn't changed I don't think in any other than the required because of the spreads from the cuts cuts. Yeah. Cuts we made. Yeah. But and materially though it's minimal in terms of the changes that were made.

Remember as we talk when we move people depending on where the person is and how they're spread out across the budget in terms of different funds they hit. That's where those changes. If you have questions in regards to this I'd be happy. I don't think there's a need to go page by page, but if you'd like me to, I will. Or if you have qu any questions on it, everyone good? Okay. Water fund recap. Um if you'll look the same uh admission uh remains with the red note that those are restricted funds. [snorts] Note that we have an ending balance which is nice to see. It's minimal but at least it's in the green. Uh again the same thing applies to the water in regards to any of those other reductions as they spread across the different funds. Those would be shown in here. It hasn't really changed. There's not a significant change. As I finish the water and sewer, what you must also be aware of, and I've mentioned this to you before, is that we're not done with the acco yet. I have between six and eight items left. I'm working with a financial analyst right now in trying to um determine how to approach

the um viability study mandated by Eagle. In addition, I I've sent and I put this in my report to you in regards to his concern about the city's financial challenges, if you will. So if I' I'd ask you to draw attention to that, but I'm still working that. So there's a cost for that that'll be coming and there's a cost for a CIP born out of the water plant renovation also out of the acco. I'm working to see if I can um get the CIP portion covered under current work. I haven't convinced them that that's part of their current work yet, but I'm still trying. Um, we'll see where that goes. But, uh, those are two additional costs that may come out of there. In terms of the acco items, I should have covered um, based upon change orders that I just recently instituted there. in order to cover the remaining ones. Uh our deadline is December 31st on the water plant and the acco. Um we just gave an extension and depending upon supply time and supply chain issues that we're having that I've talked to you about before, I may have to go back and ask for another extension. I'm hoping not, but I got to wait. So unless there's other questions on the water and sewer, I just want to make sure you guys are aware of that and you remember that those issues are still ongoing. Uh we'll do local street fund first. You've had an opportunity to look at these before. Again, minimal changes. You'll notice uh we're in the green there a little under 300,000. Um,

one of the benefits uh of the last state budget process was that they directed funds to taking care of roads and they dished this out to counties and cities and townships in terms of their budget and local and and major road funding. uh it wasn't a straight gift or or a grant, but they also took funds we had from somewhere else and they said, "Oh, here here's new funds, but we're reducing this count and now you can use them over here." Didn't help anybody. It

doesn't help. Yeah, we could have used them there just as well. But be that as it may, that the thunder of the day was fix the damn roads and um they were trying to uh address that issue. I will tell you um what we have uh uh we put to good use. It's problematic that when we go to and I I I need our residents to understand this. When we go to rebuild a street, let's just say a mile a mile of roadway. um and a full reconstruction, meaning you're going to tear it out, you're going to take the curbing, you're going to remove the road, uh you're hopefully going to be able to keep some base, but if you have to replace some base, and you have to do any inherent infrastructure work that's in the base, reset sewer lids and storms and everything of that nature, it's about a million dollars a mile on a full rebuild. any other issues of any significant nature jacks the price up. We recently had a grant from the state for $250,000 to apply to South Bell River Road where we wanted to do that road

and then we found there were significant issues in terms of the engineering at that road that it would cost far more than a million dollars and that was a matching grant. Then we asked to the state, could we just do it in phases so we could utilize the 250,000 and match our 250,000 we could get a half a mile of the road and an area that wasn't

didn't have all the other engineering and they denied that. So, we had to return $250,000 on this grant because I couldn't um put the city in jeopardy of starting that project and have it skyrocket way beyond our budget and capability. So, we have a number of different roads that that we know need attention. I get calls every day on the streets condition. we've been able to work uh the uh project so that those roads that are uh uh torn up by the project, the project allows us to replace those roads. When the road that we're replacing needs a extra base, the project won't cover it. If the road needs extra ashalt in order to establish a crown, the project won't cover it because they consider that a road improvement from what it was. So they will absolutely not cover that. So then I have to find another way to cover the overage off the project. Literally sometimes street by street or intersection by intersection if they're putting more ashvault down than what was called for it. It comes out of two pots. The reason I try to explain this to the citizens is it's my hope to use a significant amount of the local street fund this year in conjunction with our ongoing um projects for a number of the different repair areas. So areas where the DPW has cut out a section of the road uh and and it's gravel. They may have it uh partitioned off. There may be cones there. Maybe a year or two in terms of coming back gravel. come up potholes and all those areas where you see private service lines have been dug and they've tore up the road. As part of the project, I hope to include each one of those areas and have the same paver

take care of those as well. So, instead of gravel and dirt and that those 4x4 or 8 by8 or wherever size there are, uh we hope to eliminate those and put paving in those. There's not enough money to do the entire street. I know in some areas it'll look very patch mill, but we'll take care of that issue as as much as we can and use the funds that are available for us. In terms of the budget there, um I I think we've explained to you we'll see a little bit of an increase in terms of the availability. It's my intention as much as possible budget-wise to tackle as many issues as we can in terms of our city streets. The problem lies you. It's irresponsible for me to go do a couple hundred yards of p of ashvault and have broken infrastructure underneath it

and not pay any attention to that. And and I know people say it's been 40 years since my street was paved. Why aren't you doing something? If the infrastructure below it is bad and I spend $200,000 to pave your street and then they have to dig it up six weeks later for a break, I I really just

let $200,000 go to waste. So, it's a conjunction of fixing the infrastructure at the same time. So, if we do your street that has an opportunity to last. Another thing I want to talk about because I people are commenting on it. the condition of some of the streets that were done under the water project. We're aware of them. We're aware that there's some cracking. There's a warranty for two years. Uh we're aware of the um I'll call it the circus ride on West Road as you as you head out of town, the the hump, if you will. Um those uh have been addressed and there we're going to require that those uh be uh fixed and repaired at the cost of the contractors. They've been put on notice on those.

Okay. There's anything else I can talk about major street and and local street funding. Um we talked about last year in terms of we picked up uh money for MDOT that we're doing. I mean we we've tried to do our best in terms of this very candidly. Everything we do in terms of streets and roads has gone up. The ability to run that sweeper, the ability to to plow, lay down salt. I mean, the fuel to put in the trucks. Those are the last two. If you have questions, I'll answer questions on those.

Like the smaller ones, we can. I I didn't bring mine, but we I I'll go off yours. Any questions on those two? We can go over real quick the sub accounts. Uh I don't know if you have them in your book. You can find them. The cemetery fund recap. [clears throat] It's under tab four. Do you see the subtotal there? Is this number figured into the general fund that? No, we didn't do it when we talked the notes there that we may have to do it, but there's still a fund balance in cemeteries. So, we haven't done it the last two years.

I would much rather use the fund balance from the cemetery than add to the general fund deficit. Very candidly, I don't want to make the problem any bigger if I have funds there for that purpose. Um there's about 85,000. It's not going to last us this forever, but we're going to have to come up with a cemetery solution as well. Makes sense. Yeah. Eventually. So that's why you didn't see it added to the 650 because then I'm just What am I doing here? It doesn't make that sense. So we're going to take it out of the 85. Any questions in regards to the cemetery? I I'll tell you uh very candidly that cemetery is going to need some work. Yeah. The It's it's the chapels. It needs a roof. It needs a lot of stuff.

The cement's all shot in terms in terms of of some of the facilities, the roads, the I I you know, um you you want that to be a place of respect and and uh I I just I have some concerns about that. There there'll need to be a discussion or thought process put forward on that. drug law enforcement funds. There's nothing there. I think $200 and something dollars on it. Yeah, I I wouldn't waste a lot of time on that. Brownfield redevelopment. You can see there's a small amount there.

The brownfield expires. I uh talked to the accessory yesterday in 2028. Um but we already have enough funds in our account to pay the loan off even though the loan was due. So, is there any interest savings if we pay the loan off early? There is. So, we might look at that and bring that back to you if we could save money by paying the loan off earlier. Sometimes there's a call on it where they'll they won't allow you to do it until like a year out because they want to control that and get all their money. But if that's the case and we have the opportunity to save money, we may come back to you and say, "Hey, it's appropriate for us to pay this off now and put an end to it." That's good.

Okay. Let's I need to get through the budget stuff. Yeah, this is We didn't change this. We're going to have to change. So, the capital funds project, you show a uh a large amount in there that no longer exists. We didn't change this yet. So, this hasn't been tampered with. This will change, folks. This a $3 million bond. Yep. the 225 capital projects funds, the $3 million bond. We're starting to pay bills out of that already. Might change, too. Yeah. Oh, the the title's going to change, right?

Uh the fund number is going to change now that we know the percent of the billing. The state accounting manual says we have to have a different fund number. [clears throat] DWSRF fund bond fund It's in and out. So, I don't think there's really any else. Cemetery trust fund. You see $600. There's a few There is some money sitting in perpetual care for the cemetery that you can use towards capital improvements to the cemetery. It's an option that's on the balance. It's on the balance sheets every, you know, month. Nice. How much is that? You know, off top

100 I think like a 100,000. It's not a ton, but it could do a roof or Well, we need to get after it soon. It's so bad. I mean, we're risking a slip and fall in front of it with all the cracks sitting there for years. And the exterior's been getting by the um bees been burrowing holes through it. And I confirmed that with Curtis that we could use that money.

We're going to look at taking care of some of the issues there. that one. I definitely would try to stick some type of metal roof on it so you don't ever have to do it again. I think that's it. We did not submit the uh uh proposed fee. There's a copy in there. I did talk to you that I have a couple things I want to adjust. For the most part, it's going to be pretty accurate to what it's at. Um, but there's a couple things I want to look at in terms of of how we present it and how we go about it. Questions?

General questions? Sure. So I have two general questions um that was presented just for so everyone knows that when you went over the budget the department heads did have an opportunity to go through it with you and they could help you with determining what cuts were being made or at least they went with over it with you. I went over the budget with them. Um, in terms of them having an opportunity to determining what cuts there were, um, I wouldn't say that would be correct. Ultimately, it's the budget that I present to you.

There's probably, uh, um, a lot of the department, probably most of the department heads, not all of them, don't want to see uh, budget cuts in important areas and and especially in personnel. I understand that. But I also have an obligation to present a balanced budget and we're not close to that. So absolutely the decision to make the changes is my responsibility. Okay. And after you proposed your your cuts, did anybody come to you with any alternatives and say instead of this, well, how about that? Any of the department heads come up with any anything?

Not yet. Okay,

we we still have some things that we look at on a day-to-day basis that we could tinker with and $500 here or $400 here. Can we raise revenue? That's an ongoing process that happens all the time when we're looking for the best deal and stuff. Can we do this in order the you see just we did it with uh trying to be proactive with the website and uni code and you see us trying to I call that positioning when we see we can knock off a couple things and save bucks so the long term we try to take advantage of that I think that's that's good governance that's that's a good idea the department heads do that as well they'll call and say hey I've got this issue we can fix this long term we spent a couple bucks and let's let's take care of it let's take it off the table and fix it correctly. Um, so that that kind of goes on all the time. It's an expectation, if you will.

Mhm. Um, you know, the only part I haven't talked about again is the shortage in the revenue, and I'm happy to go back over that in detail if you want, unless you have unless you have uh other uh questions in regards uh the cuts.

Oh, just had those two general questions. That's it. Anybody else? Nope. I can address um the revenue question again. I want to make sure that um I I I speak clearly and that people understand. Uh I know uh you folks are sitting in front of me and I I I I I speak at you, but I'm speaking uh also to uh our residents or anybody else. Um the budget process is difficult. As I explained yesterday, there's not the ability to draw money from multiple different accounts or multiple different entities. So we may have money here. I can't use it over here. And this money here is restricted. You can't use it to plug this gap in this hole. And it is mandated by the state law that we produce a balanced budget. We've talked about um a little bit how this happened. We could spend probably multiple meetings um talking about historical reasoning and why and how this was done and how I I I find that there's merit in understanding the history, but I find it counterproductive because it doesn't solve the problem. study the history, understand what happened, but apply it to solving the problem. And that's where I'm at here today. I can't argue or change the history. I I I I wasn't here. I don't know. I know you folks know that. Many of you weren't involved in history, but it is what it is. It's just the history

we own here. You know, very candidly, you can look back over the years that I've given you and you can pinpoint different times in our economy where there were setbacks and we never came back from the setback. We struggle and as I indicated, we were propped up at points with monies, okay, that were utilized through the general fund and many of those purchases were needed. Those were emergent, okay, when your wastewater ple treatment plant was failing, those were emergent purchases. It covered a specific need. But at the end of the day, the cost of services to provide services and the level of services that you wish to provide for your residents and businesses does not meet the revenue that we have available. I can't write any more grants that will impact that. I think we've done very well for a small city in terms of the amount of money that we bring in in grants and awards. Um, but that doesn't necessarily impact the general fund. The general fund is the issue right now. And when I talk about general fund, that is your main checking book, if you will, folks. It's not the water and sewer fund where we're taking that money in. It's not the roads. It's not the police drug account. It's the general fund. The biggest users of the general fund are the public safety services, the police and fire. If you look at the budget prior to my cuts, they were about $1.325 million. You look at that across our budget, uh that's around half, a little less, a

little more depending upon how I I I divide the pie up. That's a significant number because all that's left is the half of that pie to pay for everything else. Everything else you provide for a small city. You provide police, fire, full-time DVW, water production, water distribution, wastewater treatment, library, museum, uh, and I can I can go on and on in terms of of of different things. You can't compare what you provide to um somebody that lives in a township. The township isn't governed by the same laws and responsibilities of full service community. They tend to be uh involved in users agreements for small segments of services they need. If they need water, they don't put together a water plant. No, they buy water from Gala or a neighbor. They need sewer. If they can't put in sewer, they use septic. They need police, they use the sheriff and they buy a car for some type of more protection. If they want fire, they can't do their own fire department. They enlist the fire department from other sources. And we have an authority. I would like to move us closer towards those shared services models in the future. I think that's the future not only for Marine City, but for a lot of entities. Uh very candidly, I think the south end of the county could I'd love to be able to get everybody on the same page and say, is there a cost savings on us putting together an authority and saving uh resources or sharing equipment? I I had this speech to the fire chief. Why are we each community buying a $2.3 million ladder truck? Why don't one community that sits

between two others and you all go to the same runs buy the we all jointly buy it? those type of I think a collaborative efforts will help but at the end of the day I have to rightsize the services. We've made a significant cut based on the deficit that we had. We showed you $650,000 deficit, but as I explained to you, you can't just raise $650,000 because then you have a checking account that's zero. And as you know, when you do that in your own home, the roof's going to leak, the toilet's going to have an issue, the car is going to stop running, things come up during the year that you have to pay for that you didn't plan on. emergent issues, cost increases you didn't plan on. So, you have to have a little bit of a cushion in that. The only other option available is the use of a special assessment district. I told you yesterday, I'm going to be consistent in that. I don't like that tool. I I I abhore that tool. Unfortunately, that's the only tool that is available to this city. It it is not available for us to hold an election, have the residents vote on it. Why? Because we're due to have a budget at the end of May. There's it's impossible. I could very candidly not add any revenues. I'd have to wipe out services, entire departments. So, you're going to have to eliminate services. Now, that's a decision that you have to make in terms of our residents. I would prefer and I would suggest to

you that a blended uh process works better. And here's the reason why. Um, if we made drastic cuts, and we're making cuts that are going to affect service in some instances, but if we made drastic cuts, what tends to happen is, taxes go up, cuts come in, people tend to flee, but people don't move to the community, businesses don't come, the schools don't flourish. you you literally end up hurting yourself in terms of that because you want people to come to this community. The businesses start suffering. They're paying more for less. They're getting less and that starts a slide that makes it extremely difficult to attract business development or residential development to the city. On the other hand of that, if your taxes go too high and you cut services, it causes the same thing. So, it's a delicate balance. I I will tell you that this this piece in terms of the special assessment district, I will call it for what it is, it's a it's a shuffle. Okay? Nobody generally likes to say that. It is what it is. Uh we're going to ask you to allow an estimate of five mills to bring in revenue to the city. I'm going to take that money, apply it to approximately half the cost of public safety services. And the money I have in that half of that area, I'm going to apply to all these other services that I can't supply in order to keep the city moving

forward. In addition to the revenue with the amount of cuts we've made, I hope to present a balanced budget. Last thing I'd like to speak on, and then I'll be glad to take your questions, comments, criticisms, suggestions. I understand the impact this is going to have on these residents. I do. I get it. [snorts] I talked to them. Uh it'll be devastating for a lot of people. I I understand that. I also understand there's some people that'll feel a double whammy. They may work for the city, lose their hours, do this, and then live in the city and then pay for the same process. You folks will feel it. [laughter] Um, businesses will feel it. I I weigh that versus the extreme cuts, the lack of a police department or the the dayshift only stop at 9:00 p.m., stop at 11:00 p.m. I I I thought about that [laughter] and I thought somebody has a condition at their home. they there's a domestic squabble or somebody has a heart attack and the fire responds with EMS and the scene hasn't been declared secure. Do people realize they don't go in until the police are there and secure the scene? I don't want somebody to suffer a fatality based on the inability to send a police officer unless it come from 20 miles away because there's nobody here. That concerns me. Um the lack of available police protection in an instant. Um, you know, one of the requirements in a full-size city,

as much as I love a library and and bike paths and parks and wreck facilities, is public safety. That's actually your first responsibility if you'll look. Your first responsibility is police and fire. And um the internet sometimes is a wonderful and dangerous thing. and checking out a book is is still some of the best you can do, but a book doesn't help you when you need a police officer, you need a fire truck. So, as I looked at those cuts and I weighed the impact on our citizens and the impact on the residents, that's why I'm making that suggestion. Additionally, I made a suggestion to you that you not try to do this as a one-year fix. You have to look at this over two or three years until we can get this rights sided till we can bring into some other things that need to happen that we're going to talk about. We're going to have those discussions. It gives us an opportunity to set it again. One reason why I'm asking for five mills. I'm hopeful that that will allow a couple years without an increase that we're able to accommodate and start to adjust just like you did with the sewer and water rate increases. Again, we can go backwards and talk who were blue in the face and argue about this and debate it. I'm willing and able to sit with residents, groups, businesses, have coffees with them, uh, take their concerns, their criticisms. I'll be the owner of this. I have no problem with that. I'll answer their questions honestly and openly. I I I get they'll be angry, disappointed, upset. I understand that. Um, at the same time, there don't appear to be any other

options other than the other ones I've given you. So unless you have questions on the funding mechanism I plan on using the budget cuts that I presented to you the outstanding deficits still with those budget cuts it's my intention at tonight's meeting to on the agenda ask for your approval of an estimate a public safety uh cost estimate and to move forward with that funding process. I also recognize lastly the impact it has on you as commissioners. Um, you know, we always talk about doubling your pay. We took you to a dollar. What people don't realize is I know you're the faces in the community that are going to hear it and bear it. Our employees are getting it in their face all the time. That concerns me. I will tell you that's problematic and it's going to continue and it may increase. But in the same token, I know you have to answer to your constituents and it can't be easy. But I also know if we have a failure of services, it's not easy to answer for that either. And it's unfortunate, but the seven of you are in those seats at this time that this hard decision has to be made. And I would say um what better group than you to be the leaders? If not you then who would do it? I mean I've spoke enough questions, comments, criticisms. Mayor, may I make a comment? Am I allowed to?

So, um I just want to the the timeliness of these cuts last night. I I I put this budget together and um these were merely suggestions and I think we were all shocked when the idea was cut them all. Um so, a 24-hour turnaround. I worked on the book to uh maybe give some suggestions from the department heads. I think we could have maybe used a little more time than the 12 hours or 24 hours from the day before. However, um I obviously Marie Ellen, she worked remotely. We know that. I think we're aware of that. And I understand um that cut. I I understand it. I also understand the importance of bodies in the office for service. Um, and I'm a little bit worried about checks and balances on the financial side. Um, having the same person do the drawer, count the drawer, do the deposit, reconcile, there's really you're opening yourself up to liability and checks and balances. Um, I did have a thought of, you know, [snorts] instead of cutting Carol 10 hours and keeping her on, she is a body in the office and, um, if we could maybe split some of the roles so that those check-in balances are being made still. Um, meaning Paula does the drawer and creates the deposit, she could check the deposit and then I'm the reconciliation since that middleman is being eliminated. Um, and then she would also still be available for elections and things on the clerk side. I That is a suggestion I have. I It's 10 hours. It's $16,000 in cost, but I think we're opening ourselves up for I mean, I trust myself. I trust the people we have, but um, with the rotation and the positions we've had, it's really

important to have those checks and balances for liability. So, I wanted to make that suggestion. [clears throat] I, you know, I've thought about this a lot last night since since yesterday and and and I know that all of these decisions have been weighing very hard.

I think we we knew that these cuts were coming because you that we were going to have to do something, right? And so although we've only had 12 hours to think about it or or or you guys um how long have you been working on the budget? You know what I mean? And so I think that I would put back to you guys. I don't I don't want to see anybody lose their job. But in return, tell me where we can make up that money at. That's that's my only my only thing is if we didn't have to cut anybody because we could figure out another way to do it, then we would. But I think we're here with these suggestions because we don't have that 16,000. So, if we can figure out a way, if anybody I mean, we're I we're Mike's one person. I'm one person. I don't There has to be something. And I and I get that. You know, what are you what are you going to lose when we lose Carol for 10 hours? I don't know. I can't measure that. The only thing I can measure right now is that the the budget isn't balancing. And so, somewhere, unfortunately, the cut has to happen. and more than willing to look at something if you have a different idea. I appreciate you going back and thinking about it. If there's a way that we can save any of these cuts, that would be terrific, but I just don't know. I don't know how we

may I offer something. Absolutely. I'm a little disappointed that that statement comes out at this point. I have an office that's 30 feet away. I I sit in a building. I I intermex with people. I've talked to department heads about these budgets. Um yes, it's a short turnaround. The budget has been a work in progress. No, I did not go to uh any employees in terms of saying you're going to lose your job or you're going to lose hours, you're going to part-time because it's been a matter of flux.

Okay? It has literally been and it continues to be until a budget's adopted a matter of flux. I I guess um look, I've never liked laying people off. I've never liked terminating people.

Um I I've never uh enjoyed having to not give raises to people. Um, but in the same token, at times that's what you have to do. I guess I question if we're if sometimes if we don't lose sight of this. Carol's valuable. Not going to argue that. Carol fills a role. Not going to argue that. In a perfect world, keeping her at 40 hours would absolutely be the right thing. I weigh Carol versus that police officer. I cut that police officer. I put her to part-time. If 10 hours, 10 hours a week is going to upset this operation to that extent, then maybe we need to look deeper at the operation. Very candidly, I'm I'm going to be honest with you, okay? If if if that is going to be the tipping point for the entire city, then we may we need to look at that. Now, I will tell you, I will agree with you 100%. Let's work harder the other way in finding the money to keep her. There's an obvious thing I can tell you. Lessen the cut. Lessen the cut. I brought that to you yesterday and I've said numerous times, here's your options. Some of you wanted to cut more. Some of you wanted cuts that you didn't see in there. You told me, "I want to see these cuts. They weren't in there."

Some of you wanted to cut less. You saw the cuts were in there.

I also have to balance the fact of you're asking for five mills, ask for six, ask for seven. What's the impact on that? You can go up to 10. You can lower this cut, raise the deficit. This is within your power to do. I I am open to and and I asked again yesterday. Anybody have comments, suggestions, ideas, come forth. Citizen, employee, business owner, commissioner, come forward. But at the same token, it's a numbers thing, right? It literally is if you want to save it, we'll add 16,000 onto this. We'll increase by 16,000. We'll put it back in the budget. And I have no problem with that whatsoever. [clears throat] I want to make a comment. Thank you. Thank you both. Um, again, nobody wants to cut anybody, but I'm going to point out a couple things. I've been here a long time and I've known how that office has worked for a long time. And years ago, we had a clerk, we had a part-time uh deputy clerk, we had a treasure, we had a full-time deputy treasure, and that's what we ran the office on for for years, years, and years, and years. You now have one extra because you have another admin that's in there. You have five. Um, so you actually have more than we used to run it for before. The processes have improved, the computerization of things has improved. Um, it's not an easy task. I know when I left my job, I was doing the work of four people. The company didn't care that I had to do all that. I didn't get

paid anymore for it, but I still had a job. And so we all have we all have to take some of the burden on. I mean, we got to face these people with all these increases, the deficits, more taxes. They're so mad now. And then for that small amount, I would just ask people to try to work a little harder to do it. I know it's tough. I've been there. But you still have to do it. You still got a job to do and you still have a job. There's a lot of people that don't have jobs right now and they don't have good paying jobs and they don't have benefits and they don't have pensions. Um it's fortunate for that we're offering some of these things. So try to look at it that way um instead of you know again it is it's only 10 hours. There's no way that you that you shouldn't be able to absorb that based on the fact that you got five people when we always used to do it with four. I that's it. You know, again, I want to stress the office has changed a lot. Yes, we have technology. the volume [clears throat] uh and the demand for services from the citizens increases even though sometime I don't know why but they seem that their appetite for service uh immediate service and we see that everywhere I think in any type of business there's just this this appetite for

immediate service and having that extra body I I think is is is very helpful But give me another opportunity, give me another option. I I would very you know I I have to remain the end of the day I have to say we operate at times with the four bodies and I'm not including myself the four bodies because they do all the work. um when somebody's on vacation and it doesn't impact us to a great extent. Somebody's out sick funeral or it I have to be realistic. It's it's not nice. I I get it. It's But in the same token, is there another option?

Do you want me to take it off another police officer? Do you want me to to take a DPW guy? Do you What do you want me to do? or what do you want to cut? You want to cut the uh do you want to cut the uh election machines? There's your 25,000. Now, you have to put it right back. I've told you there's a number of things that haven't even come in yet. So, that number, I'm afraid, is going to grow yet.

But again, it's your purview. I understand your concern. I I I wish I had better news. Believe me, I this is not something I'm I want, but unfortunately I'm the person to ask to deliver it. Madame Mayor, can I just say something real quick? Just to clarify a point. I I understand it's it's office operations, but looking at that position of deputy clerk and 101 15 years ago, you only had three people, four people. In the face of just elections alone, that has changed. now constitutionally mandated nine days of early voting. Without a full-time deputy clerk and only a part-time deputy clerk for each election, I will end up working 28 days in a row, 10 to 12 hours a day. There's no way to flex that schedule for her to be part-time in and to operate in the office and keep those part-time hours. So, I mean, I can offer it. I understand what we're saying in yesterday emotions being high or or whatever it may be us learning about cuts same time you did maybe it's not fair maybe it's not high and I agree with you commissioner May is there another way to do it my question is if and I know it's not a guarantee and a given but if you're going to do the special assessment district and you generate $76,000 in revenue with [clears throat] a current deficit of 278,000 you're going to end up banking almost a half a million dollars. So, if we talk on the backs of the taxpayers, how's that fair? You're going to use that to offset and then put money in your fund balance, but we're still cutting services.

Well, I think that that money that's going to go in the fund balance is going to be used for capitals to continue to go in the direction. It's not going to be used just to sit there and make equity on. You know what I mean? And I understand that. But [clears throat] again, for the minor amount of 16,000, is that an option? I I think what it what it's saying to the employee, what it's saying to the citizens is that listen, we've we've cut, we've snipped, we've tightened everywhere that we know how. These are the things that we have done. I bet you there's going to be citizens that are going to say, "Do we even need a deputy clerk?" for for the 28 days that you're going to have to work 10 or 12 hours 56 but two elections

is I I would say to you is it is it worth pissing off all the the the residents and saying well because it's going to be tight during these elections and again Carol I'm not minimizing your position I am not min minimizing all of that at all I understand that that that all of this is tough for everybody however We have to look at what we do before we go to the citizens saying we we we're going to we're going to cost you more money as well. How many of you guys live in the city? I do. We all do. This is affecting me. No differently.

So, a couple things. I reject the fact that people act like they just found out about these cuts. It's fair. Both of those employees did, but others knew what was going on and had discussed it in the office. Were well aware. I I I reject that. Okay. I'll ask you for this opportunity. We're not done with this yet. No,

it's in flux. People's emotions tend to run high. I've asked for patience from our department heads, for our employees. Give me an opportunity to continue to work this, to continue to look at the budget, to continue to look at the revenues. It ain't over yet. The fat lady ain't son. Give me an opportunity to see if I can come up with the money to keep the position. And we don't even know how all this is going to hang out. I mean, I I'll tell you right now, what I'm asking you is don't be set in stone and let the position go. I get if I can find that.

I don't think any of us are in any position to say this is this is exactly what we want. We wanted to see what the numbers would look like to go in to do something. You know, it's well I think we are doing something. I I mean I wanted I'll be honest with everybody. I mean I wanted to you know me I wanted to do a hell of a lot more. Yes, there should be more because I've been here before when we had to do this and it wasn't pretty and I don't like doing it. It's a terrible thing that we have to do. But we have to answer to these people in this community and it's g it's ugly now with the $75. Just wait. Just wait till the next couple increases come and it's going to really

The other thing that I would ask is because clearly there's tension in the room whether it's just from yesterday's meeting or whatnot. But but you three need to figure it out. Us three. You Jason and Mike. Oh, I'm fine. Well, no, because the comments that are coming out tonight is you were you were just notified and you've only had 12 hours to digest. I worked through them. So, so you know that it's coming. You know what I mean? You can't you can't throw something out there that says that you you've only had 12 hours to think about it. You made the form. You right. But I did. What I'm saying is I didn't realize all we didn't know what he cut.

No, but I understand. But but being a finance person and I'm not I'm not I'm not picking on you. I'm just I'm asking a question and I'm I'm just saying you can't you can't drive the ship straight if you guys aren't communicating and clearly you're not communicating the way that you need to because he's hearing things for the first time. I mean you guys are in an office together. If you present a budget that's got a 450 or you know however much of a deficit the original one was. You know that something's going to cut. There's a chance that they all could go from a financial standpoint. You you had to understood that these would that these all could potentially happen, right? But it it's not my decision.

It's No, it's not. No, it's not your decision. But I think you you you also have to always think of worst case scenario in there as well. All I'm saying is all of you have worked tremendously hard. All of you guys do a terrific job. Clearly there's not communication though because what Mike is saying is that neither one of you and for you know neither one of you have had these conversations with them and your office is two feet apart. That's that's got to stop. That's got to get figured out today. So, tomorrow when you guys come in, you need to do something so we can move forward because this this tension isn't going to work for me.

Okay. And we're we we've got to stop there. We're done. I don't Mike, I asked you uh for the opportunity to see if I could find the 16,000 in the budget uh whether in a revenue um or a different expense cut. I didn't get a response, I guess, in unison. Um I'm going to try to do that. I'm gonna tell you I'm going to try to do that. I'll bring it back to you and then you guys

But but here's 16,000 and then somebody's going to come back and there's a 20,000 then somebody back I know that's exactly what will happen to draw the line and and technically and I love Carol there was a whole chance we cut the job completely and we didn't. I asked you not to do that. I asked you not to but we got to make more cuts. Sorry, that it I don't think it's over. No, to tell you the truth, my comment wasn't based on Carol. It was on the position and the risk of losing that third body in the finance department. Sure. Absolutely. That's strictly it's not I was looking at operation.

I think anytime anytime a department head can fight for their staff is is terrific and I and I and I think that you should I it's just the comment of only having 12 hours. You know what I mean? Especially when the process, the meeting, it was big and everything. It was big. That's very fair, Katie. Okay. And I worked a lot of time today just getting these done. There wasn't a ton of time to like Okay. You know. Yeah. But it's part of the process. I didn't want it didn't got go unsaid. Okay. And I thought this was the opportunity. So, we're done. We're done with that. Yep. We're done with that. Mike, I'm done. Okay.

Anything else I can provide you? Okay, hearing say nothing else. Motion to adjurnn. So moved support. All in favor? I thank you