Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Flatley did let us know she was going to be absent tonight, so I'll mark her as absent. Mr. Nicely?

Present.

Ms. McGinnis?

Present.

Mr. Palavota?

Present.

Mr. Jennings? Present. And I believe Ms. Moncure is joining us remotely. Tootie, can you hear us?

I can hear you, and I'm virtually present. All right. Very good.

You have a quorum.

Mark Jennings is going to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance and the invocation.

Heavenly Father, thank you for the opportunity to gather today and serve our community. Thank you for the beautiful land and resources you've blessed us with, for our neighbors and for the community that we're grateful for the trust placed in us and the opportunity to give our time and service to others. Grant us wisdom in our deliberations, humility to listen, and help us to be good stewards of what we have been given. to consider the needs of our neighbors and future generations, and to make decisions with integrity and a sincere desire to serve the people of Cape George.

I pray.

The first order of business is the approval of the minutes. Has everybody had a moment to review those? I'm looking for a motion to approve.

Motion to approve.

Second. All in favor?

Aye.

At the record, we have six ayes. We'll open up the floor to citizen public comments. Comments will be limited to three minutes per person to afford everybody an opportunity to speak. If comments relate to a specific public hearing item, please offer them at that time of the public hearing. Pastor James Shaw.

James Shaw, James Monroe District, columnist for the Northern X Sentinel, citizen journalist, kgmedia.top, speaking in my capacity as an EDA member. As a member of the Economic Development Authority, I have been appointed to promote the county for commerce and trade. As an appointee of the Board of Supervisors, I approach the task with the spirit of the board's mission statement to maintain the rural character of the county. Coming before you this evening is a presentation by Gibson Solar. You have seen an iteration of this project before. After reviewing the current plans at the two open houses at the library on August 6th and 7th, I can say that the team has been listening to the concerns and the critics while providing a solution to the current landowners that want to leave a rural legacy for future generations. We now have a clearer path to preserve and improve the land and soil. This is a complementary system that uses the shade and protection of the solar panels to the benefit of the soil and the farm animals below. This is a tried and true system as we have seen the agrivoltaics industry grow to support over 119,000 head of sheep underneath many acres of solar panels throughout the United States. This process calls for the sheep to maintain and improve the land underneath the panels by recycling the forage into lamb chops for the dinner table. I personally am looking forward to someday a serving of breaded lamb chops with fresh herbs that come from this farming operation. The revised plans include conservation easements that they have incorporated into the long-term plans. Sheep take the place of noisy and smelly lawn mowing equipment that will now rarely be needed. May God bless the King George Renaissance, where change in the marrying of old and newer technologies can lead to a better and tastier future.

Thank you, Mr. Shaw. That being all that's signed up, is there anybody online?

No, Mr. Chairman.

Okay, so I will close the public comment period. Is there any discussion among the staff? Okay, so we'll move to our next item is Mr. Adam Lynch.

Good evening, Vice Chair and Planning Commission. Adam Lynch, Naval Sport Activity, South Potomac, NSF Dahlgren. Two items to bring up with you guys today. The first, on August 26th, the base held our regular quarterly Community Relations Council meeting. We were pleased to have Mr. Stroud from the Board of Supervisors host us at the UMW Dahlgren presentation facility. wonderful, wonderful space to have our meeting at about 55 members of the public present, including three supervisors and Ms. Flatley, as well as several different county staff. We were really, I think, privileged to an excellent discussion with more information about the Aegis Training Center's Readiness Academy, a school which is a pilot program to bring at this point. Last number I heard was 450 additional surface warfare officers for training to the base on a relocation from Naval Station Great Lakes. We are still tracking that project and we'll continue to bring back more information for you, but I do want to reiterate that at this point it's still a pilot project and pending the results of that and leadership's direction, we will continue to add to that program. Second item, since there's an item today that relates to our military compatibility area overlay district, I wanted to provide you guys with a little bit of background. We have some new faces on the commission. The military compatibility area overlay, I call it the overlay, is a special zoning district that was incorporated into the county's code in 2024 as part of a rewrite of your zoning ordinance. That project, however, started as far as a decade ago. with the joint land use study, which identified the importance of compatible land use in areas affected by noise from Dahlgren. So I wanted to draw your attention to a couple things about that. I provided you guys with a hard copy of the ordinance itself. It also lives in the county code, so it's accessible. If we could bring up the map of the area that the overlay district applies to, I can show you guys where the district... kicks in, but several of the key aspects I wanted to talk through with you. The Military Conservation Compatibility Overlay District is an overlay district. It does not change zoning. What it does do is it sets a geographic area that aligns with a data collected from our range for noise from both weapons and demolition. And within that area, it requires any significant real estate action including rezonings or major site plans or subdivisions to disclose to the Navy at least 30 days in advance of any action providing the base with additional time to review the proposal and understand the implications of that action for our military mission. So on this map right here, you can see in yellow we have Naval Support Facility Dahlgren main side to the north. And to the south is a facility called Pumpkin Neck, EEA, the Explosive Experimental Area. And we make noise at Dahlgren through two primary means. The first is the firing line. Those are large caliber weapons mounted in more or less a straight line on main side Dahlgren. And they are testing weapons and ordnance downriver, so they fire down the Potomac River. They create a lot of noise. That noise ripples downriver. It especially affects coastal areas, including Colonial Beach, Swan Point in Maryland, and certain areas of King George County. The Navy has learned over the years that we need to try to, at minimum, educate, but second, affirmatively, encourage development within that area that is compatible with noise. Bringing large amounts of residential density or other uses that could be adversely affected by noise into those areas induces noise effects, and if it gets out of control, you can end up with noise complaints that can force you to curtail your mission. In addition to the firing line, we also have an EEA, a pumpkin neck, where explosive items are subjected to stress tests, including dropping them, subjecting them to friction, differences in temperature, vibration, and pressure, which then we measure the effect of those effects on the explosive items. And that means pushing these explosive items to their limit and making them go boom. Oftentimes too, we have to use the explosive experimental area as a emergency bomb disposal site. And sometimes that can happen late in the evening outside of our normal working hours. So the areas that are adjacent to the EEA are very important from a compatible land use standpoint. So bringing it back to the overlay district, in 2024 this was adopted based on the areas that were defined in a joint land use study conducted in 2016 which was a consensus document which included leadership from King George County, Charles County, Westmoreland County, the town of Colonial Beach, and other entities, which defined the areas that you see on this screen right here. So, as again, I will reiterate that the overlay does not change the zoning. It does not apply any additional restrictions to that development on any land that's not owned by the Navy. However, it does require disclosure, which gives us 30 additional days to take a look at this, to digest it, to understand the regulations and the scenarios that could come into play in the future and how they could affect our mission on base. So with that, I will take any questions that I know you guys probably have.

I see the middle danger zone. What is right outside of the middle danger zone?

So on the north side of the Potomac, that's Cobb Island. I don't know if you've been over to Cobb Island. On the south side, that's roughly adjacent to Westmoreland State Park. To give you an idea, a rule of thumb where we're looking out there. The middle danger zone, though, is adjacent to a relatively low density area of the county. So that's something that supports our mission by making sure we don't have any large towns or communities immediately adjacent to that middle danger zone. But that area there between essentially Colonial Beach and where the green lettering there, the middle danger zone, that's where most of the ordinance we fire impacts the water. So if you look closely, sitting maybe on the beach at Colonial Beach during some of our exercises, you can actually see the ordinance hit the water. Apparently it's quite a show.

Yeah. Mr. Lynch. Your noise area is based on a study that's about, what is it, 12 years old now. My experience, having been on the base, was that over time, the range isn't used as much as it was. Are these areas still applicable, or are they just being left because it's a cushioned

I don't have a good answer for that question.

Any plans for a new study?

So not at this time, but that's something that we certainly could entertain.

I don't know that it's necessary. I'm just curious because, like I said, my experience is that over the years, the activity on the gun line decreased pretty substantially.

That's right.

And the Navy's moving into different kind of weapons.

Certainly. Yeah, they've tended to shrink in size over the years. Yeah. Larger weapons certainly were used decades and decades ago, but these days 5 to 8-inch diameter weapons are the predominant ones used. We also had, until a few years ago, the rail gun was being tested on the base, and I don't have a great answer for whether that noise had affected these contours here. I was not here when that was being tested, so I don't have a good answer for that.

Okay, thank you.

So I thought you said a minute ago that you being the base, you'd like to share this and also encourage development that you feel is compatible with this. So are you here to encourage or discourage development tonight?

Well, sort of a positive way to frame that we want to discourage development that is incompatible with our mission, which would be, for example, higher density residential development tall structures, and anything that increases the chances of a safety incident over water.

All right, so let me rephrase this. Are you going to give a comment later during the hearing on the compatibility of the hearing to this?

So I'm going to give a comment asking for an additional meeting to comply with the overlay district's 30-day requirement for base review. I don't have an opinion tonight on the proposal that's in the agenda.

Got it. All right. And then just for my own edification, you have decimal levels. And I know what they should be saying, but I feel like I'm reading them backwards. Can you just, and this is, are you going to be here all night?

I have plenty of time.

All right. I'll talk to you later. We don't need to.

That's a good question, though. I feel like they're backwards. It's not quite logical what you're describing. That is accurate. I think one, I think high. Zone three is actually the highest decibel, and zone one is the lowest. I find that to be counterintuitive.

Yeah, we'll catch up on that later. Thank you.

Yeah, it doesn't help also with the map that they're using similar colors so you can't tell which red line is which red line. But to go back to your to your earlier statement and maybe we can hold it until we get the the rezoning application in front of us but. When was the base informed about that rezoning application.

It was at the time that I received the agenda in writing for this meeting.

Okay, so is that is that something Kelly that we need to do a better job of certainly you have probably known about this application So now we're holding up public trying to get some things done with their property because the county was remiss and getting The base informed to start their 30-day clock so I'm a little less You know sympathetic to the base quite honestly because they really don't have a veto authority or veto power. We're just asking him to give us comments. It cannot stop the county from doing whatever the county officials decide to do with rezoning. They're all they're doing is giving us comments and recommendations that correct.

Thank you so I will say in in the county's defense, this is the first project that has actually. been affected by the overlay district. We've gotten letters before as an adjacent landowner on a handful of items since I've been here in 2023, but this is the first one that's not adjacent to the base that does fall inside the noise contours that I'm aware of.

There's quite a few developments and other things we didn't hear you in here asking about or a 30-day review for a solar project or a cell tower or other rezonings that have occurred Out on 301, over the past year, we've had multiple things that are inside of this outer contour.

The outer contour is not the extent of the compatibility.

Which line is?

So the brightest pink line on that map.

Can you go up and point to it, please? Because I can't tell pink from red from.

Yeah, the map's confusing.

Okay.

So the only area that's affected is this little square right here.

Okay. Thank you for clarifying exactly where the boundary is. I'm sorry.

Thank you.

Do you get complaints often from, say, Mount Moriah? the other residential area that's right in there? Do people call and complain to the base about noise?

So we receive an average of about eight noise complaints a year, formal noise complaints. And they are scattered throughout the area along the river. Some of them are surprisingly far away. Some people are more sensitive to noise. But the area that's along the Virginia side on the south side of the Potomac is Sort of a hot spot for noise complaints. Colonial Beach, because it's so close and such a densely populated area. And that little square of King George County is something of a noise complaint hot spot.

When you say eight formal noise complaints, that is not just relegated to our county, I would assume. Or is it?

Can you rephrase that?

Yeah, if you get eight formal noise complaints a year, is that inclusive of Everything in KG as well as Westmoreland, or is it just in Georgia?

The noise complaints are all throughout Maryland and Virginia, noise complaints of the activity at Dahlgren.

And in 30 days, would your recommendation effectively... What would elicit a negative recommendation?

So...

Generally speaking, not in relation to this project.

A substantial increase in residential development would bring more rooftops into a noise affected area. And the main reason that I'm asking for an extra 30 days is honestly because I don't know all the intricacies of the subdivision code. This is the first project I've reviewed in depth within a proximity to the base. And it's mostly me teaching myself so I can educate our commanding officer and his team who will ultimately make the final decision.

Got it. So just for the record, this is, I believe, and if you guys want to nod along, I requested it from A1 to A2, which is a two-acre minimum, and it's on 25 acres? 26? So you're talking 13 additional homes, just for your knowledge base.

Great. I'd rather just withhold any comment until I've gotten a chance to really sink my teeth into it.

like to circle back to done with that topic I just wanted to go back and get a little more details on that a school pilot project you know when when is that going to start when is your first class and how big is it first class has already started this summer we had our first class of 30 recruits and I think they graduated from a school this summer so they actually started in the springtime and when do you Was that a positive experience and do you expect it to continue and what is the maximum student population that you expect that to grow to?

So I haven't heard any specific feedback and that would probably be a better question for the commanding officer of the school. However, we are preparing to schedule a work session appointment with the King George County supervisors, including our commanding officer and the ATRC commanding officer in order to provide answers to those kinds of questions. But from the presentation we had from the commanding officer of ATRC at Comrel, they estimated 450. And as far as I know, that's still phasing in gradually between 2026 and 2030, a five-year period. Okay.

Yeah, I think it's going to be important for us to kind of understand what that plan is. We're working ahead on the comprehensive plan so we can understand the potential impact to the roads. As you well know, the road in and out of Agate. is not the most conducive to having another 400 cars come in and out of there? What's the expectation? Are these students all going to live on base? Is there some other access that's going to get created there to get these other students in and out, et cetera? I mean, there's a lot of potential byproducts that could affect the King George community, so we need to factor that into the comprehensive plan.

Absolutely. I agree. Thank you.

Appreciate the update. Thank you very much. And you're not the only one that's learning this new subdivision ordinance because I wasn't even aware of it till just now Sorry last one Just to kind of piggyback on on Rogers comment.

Are there any future plans for gate improvements or a sea gate or something to lighten the load that the county faces right now because it's I don't think atrocious is a an inappropriate word when it comes to morning traffic as a result of the base?

It's a regular topic of conversation at headquarters. I also know that VDOT is starting a small study to look at traffic flow involving the gates. And usually when VDOT does a study, they're anticipating some sort of action. So I would expect that we could be zeroing in on some management actions in the coming months.

Oh, one more, if I may. I'm sorry, the conversation just creates questions. Any plan for additional housing on base to handle these A school students?

Yes. So I've mentioned at a prior meeting that we are constructing a new hotel, Navy Gateway Inn and Suites, Navy Inn on base, about 120 rooms. And the old hotel, which is currently used largely for barracks, partially for barracks. When the new Navy Inn opens up, the old hotel is going to be converted into barrack space. So that is going to be full-time barrack space.

The new hotel was based on data several years ago before a school was ever mentioned. So any additional plans? Because the new hotel is what, nearing completion?

That's right. No. I will say, though, that the community housing market is probably going to be a part of the solution. As you move more bodies on to base.

That's a very interesting comment, given that some of the Board of Supervisors have said they don't want new roofs. So, again, I welcome the fact that you're going to come in and talk to the Board of Supervisors or the base will. and put some of these topics out there for discussion. Heads up, expecting the county to provide housing for these 450 folks is probably a bit of a stretch, in my opinion, at the moment. And the B gate is where the issue mainly is for traffic. There have been studies done in the past. I would hope that you would keep us informed of what some of those thoughts are so that we could at least give our opinions rather than, and I, and I say this based on the fact that I worked out there a long time, the county's opinions aren't always given due consideration. So I hope that you'll, that the leadership will make an effort to, uh, Keep the county fathers informed of what's going on so they can at least comment on it. Great. Thank you for the feedback.

Thank you again, Adam. Have a great day. Next, we have the public hearing for application ZTAC 2026, TAC 00045. Thomas and Sandry, very resounding.

Okay, thank you, good evening everyone. This is all gonna make a little bit more sense after you hear my presentation. So Thomas and Sandra Barrett have applied to rezone approximately 26 acres of land from A1 to A2. The property is part of a larger parcel that's 118 acres in size and is divided by Stony Point Road. The portion to the south of Stony Point Road is already zoned A2. The applicants are planning for a possible future family subdivision of the property and the adjacent properties are zoned a one and a 2. The property lies within the Potomac River North rural development areas designated in the comprehensive plan. A key policy in the comprehensive plan for this development area is to encourage very low density rural residential growth and discourage higher density residential and commercial development. The application was reviewed by county and state reviewing agencies and no one had any concerns. However, because the property lies within the overlay district, which we heard about tonight, the application was supposed to also be sent for review by the base. That unfortunately didn't happen until last week. After talking to Mr. Lynch, we agreed that we were able to proceed with the public hearing tonight, but request that the commission defer any action on the application to your October meeting so we can satisfy the ordinance requirement. I will now turn it over to the Barrys to give them an opportunity to address the commission and answer any questions.

Hello, my name is Kevin Barry. I'm the son of Tommy and Sandy, and they gave me permission to talk this time. And just so you guys know, it's their 64th wedding anniversary today. Just... Not where they want it to be. Let's put it that way. Can I address some things with the base thing first? Just for what we're trying to do. Mr. Lynch, I understand where you're coming from, but having worked on the base for 40 plus years, my dad there for 60 plus years, growing up in the area, we understand the guns, the booms, whatever. Our farm has been in the family since 1800. The possibilities of what we're trying to do with this piece of land is for them to be able to give the grandchildren a piece of land. We're trying not to mess with the major farming operation. That's why we do not want to go the other side of the road. As far as that goes, over on that side, it's the least impact to the actual farming process. And the reason we haven't asked for family subdivision up front is there's four grandkids and there's a chance that some of them may not even come back to this area. So they get something else down the road. So we don't want to break anything off the farm, try to keep it as much in farming operation as we can. But we do, you know, possibly want to do one to start with. But being grandparents won't make things fair. you know, along the way to be able to do that, but only if, so we're not looking to put 13 houses over there, breaking 26 acres into two acre lots. It's not going to happen. Um, there is a stream that runs through part of it, which makes part of it not useful to put houses on the land over there. I'll be honest with you. It's not the best parking land either. So we've got to find specific spots and be done, you know, with that part of it. Um, As far as the bass and the noise, you know, we grew up with the 16-inch guns shooting all day, every day. I mean, I don't even, we don't even blink at it. So, I mean, as far as complaints with us, it's not going to happen. One, it employs all of us. And two, the children we're talking about there, some of them are employed there also. So, I mean, that part of it. As far as... Like our neighbors, I did not talk to every single neighbor in our area. I did meet some new neighbors that bought us on the backside of Mount Moriah, which you brought up, and asked them, point blank, do you have any issues or whatever? And, you know, we just want to know, and I've run into nothing with any of that. You know, like I say, it's been in the family since 1800. My kids are seventh generation, and, you know, it's what we're trying to do. We're trying to make it a generation thing. Some of the kids, you know, we say we may break one soon, may not. And then the others, who knows? I mean, we're all getting older. They could end up in our houses, and we'd not break any of it. But we would like to have that possibility to be able to do that. That's kind of where we're at. So I will say, I mean, Kelly was definitely up front with letting me know that, you know, there was an issue with the base. I talked to Mr. Lynch last week and, you know, about it. And, you know, I mean, if they have 30 days, they have 30 days. You know, but do I think it has any impact on it? No. I've worked down there a long time. So. far as that goes but that's where we're at with it I will say though Kelly and Lucy have been nothing but top-notch to work with as far as that goes so we've had good experience with that so you guys have any questions so we'll open the floor to do we do public comment before we take the questions okay so we'll take public comments for this application Z dash

2026-0045. Let's see if anybody signed up first. Okay. Nobody signed up, so Adam, if you'd like to make a comment.

Great. Just a formality, Adam Lynch, Naval Support Activity, South Potomac. NSA South Potomac respectfully requests that any action on the item postponed in the public hearing be continued to allow the base 30 days review per the King George County Code section 551 the military compatibility area overlay district thank you thank you any others present that haven't signed up any anybody we'll get to that

This is.

When it's time for y'all to deliberate, Tuti's having some issues with her audio, Chris. So if, unmute. Ask her to unmute. Okay. Okay.

Can you check and see if anybody's online for public comment? Okay. So we'll close the public comment. And then I'll ask the fellow commissioners to ask questions and reserve comments until we've heard from NSWC is this will be deferred. We'll be voting next meeting. So to answer your question, Kevin, the 30 days, it doesn't matter because it's just the next meeting. So we're voting on the next meeting. Next meeting we have is when we're going to vote. Is there any questions of the presentation? We'll start on this end. Let's just go down.

So no particular questions. You know, I understand what the Barrys are trying to do. And, you know, the family subdivision was put into the ordinance to address those kinds of issues. I don't have any problems with that. Two acres is A2. What is the minimum lot size? Two acres. Okay. Okay. just wanted to make sure. You know, so that's not going to be extremely dense, okay? But the only thing about the family subdivision is it's got criteria in there that says once you do it for the family, there's a period of time where the pieces can't be resold, you know, outside of the family. And that was put in there just to protect the county longer term. The concern about it being in the overlay district, the military overlay district, is the noise. And, you know, peace property being sold to somebody who isn't familiar with the area and then, you know, comes in, sets up a residence, and then realizes that they've got guns going off several times, I suspect a month, as opposed to the way it used to be several times a week. But that's to protect future occupants or residents on those pieces of property. I guess as much as I support the Barry's and what they're trying to do, I just wonder if going the family subdivision might be a better way to approach it.

Come on up and just let me ask a follow-up question just for clarification. You're not asking for a family subdivision. You're asking to change the zoning on this section of your property.

We're asking to change the zoning on it because there's a possibility of doing this four times. If we ask for the family subdivision and do them as they come along, we have to pay that $4,000 to $6,000 every time. legitimate issue and then we were advised that if that's kind of where we were going we should just ask to do it all one time pay that fee one time and be done we are actually you know can't guarantee that but I mean as a family we've even talked about putting some restrictions on our children so I mean Like, say, you know, I understand I can tell you anything and you rezone it and I can go change everything. But those of you all that know me know this is what we're trying to do.

I have absolutely no doubt that you're telling us sincerely what your plans are. You know, my only issue is, like, it passes to one of the grandchildren and they – change your mind after a year or two and decide they want to sell it because they want the cash out of it. Now it's no longer the family. I don't want to make this overly complicated. Part of me on one surface says, yeah, it's no big deal, you know, go ahead.

We shouldn't discuss it. For tonight, we'll clarify the application and ask questions specifically because We haven't heard from Dahlgren, and they have a 30-day notice, so we shouldn't really discuss it.

I was under the understanding, Kelly, correct me if I'm wrong, but all the other agencies that have got their 30 days, they comment back. If they comment back no, then we don't have to do anything else at that point. It would just be time to vote. I thought we were doing it all tonight. And it's just whether they come back with something or not. If they come back, no, no impact.

Then you just have to vote. So after the input, then we'll have discussion, and then we'll vote, I think. Is that your understanding, Kelly?

The public hearing did start tonight, so you can have question and answer if there's other questions that come up.

The other thing I forgot to say is the land we're talking about, the whole farm is in one parcel of land. Why did it get split and zoned two different ways to start with? Also, on the same road, there's been several other properties down the road that have done the same thing.

Yes, Mr. Chairman, with all due respect... If the base is going to offer an opinion, it doesn't really mean we have to follow what they recommend.

No, you're 100% correct. We should maintain.

Given the circumstances in that area, I think there might be bounds there to make a decision that maybe isn't completely compatible with the base because it's already broken down. there's already numbers of folks living in that area.

So we should be, we should maintain impartiality.

What I'm saying is that, you know, I get the barriers not wanting to have to pop for six grand every time they come in and want to carve off a two acre, three acre parcel. But I just wonder if there's a way to reach some kind of a compromise to allow them to do what they're doing. and still have some restrictions on reselling the land afterwards. Don't know if that's doable or not. I would pass that to the county to take a look at that and see if that's possible.

Thank you.

Yeah, I guess I'd like to get some more info about these family subdivisions as well, right, to hear that, you know, they're going to have to come back. As I've read the family subdivision so far in the ordinance, Took a quick scan through it. They have to come back with detailed plans and surveys and everything. And if this is going to be an incremental, hey, this grandchild decides this year they want to come back, we're going to carve them off a piece. So they would have to do this in their current plans. They'd have to do this four times. I agree, there should be some way we can make this less onerous on on the family like this wants to do the same family subdivisions. I understand that I don't know if we can figure out some way to change the ordinance that's that's a bigger discussion than then for this particular application, but that's kind of a new wrinkle.

Yeah, what I can tell you is that the family subdivisions do require a 15-year holding period once the parcels get transferred to the family member, and that does get recorded on the deed. So that's a little bit of assurance that the child can't sell within 15 years.

Which would be an even better thing because that's exactly what they're expecting to have happen is for them to build their grandchildren a home and their grandchildren to stick around.

But during that 15-year period, there are things that I read that they can sell it for divorce, this, that, and the other, if the banks are involved. So, I mean, that's...

There's always exceptions. Right.

So there's where that lies. We were kind of encouraged to go the route we're doing for what we were trying to do. So that's why we went this route. And, you know, and that's what we're trying to do. So, Kelly, if they...

they proffered to place the restrictions that are in the family subdivision to 15 years along with those exceptions would that hold up could we do a rezoning of that one parcel with those restrictions on it that way they can avoid the four times the whatever the fee is to apply but still meet the intent of the family subdivision, which was to keep the parcel in the family names.

I think you're talking about two different scenarios, so I can't speak much about proffers, because we're not really supposed to, but a proffer is different in this case than the required 15-year holding period. That's in the code no matter what, if they do a family subdivision.

That's in the code if it's a family subdivision, but if we were to do a rezoning, but they proffered to put that restriction on that parcel of land. Would it hold and would that be a way out of this?

But then we gotta go down the legal road to do all that.

Well, that's for the county to decide if there's any legal issue for you if we get the okay from the county.

I'm sorry, I was consulting with- No, you're fine.

Continue, I was responding to Kevin.

Oh, okay.

Okay, the chair recognizes Mark Jennings.

Thank you. To go off of Mr. Kendrick and Mr. Nicely's concerns, something I've thought of is just what is the absolute worst case scenario where everyone sells and it is now an A2 property, how many homes could theoretically be built on that property. I'm not saying that that's what I think is going to happen. I'm just saying, like, theoretically, if we do rezone it. The max you could put there is 13. 13, okay.

Max. But the way the topology is and the way there's gullies and this and the other, you're not putting 13 houses there.

So there are geographical features that would restrict what can be built there anyway.

Topology maps, we spot it

Yeah, there's a lot of wavy hills back there. There is like a deli from a creek that runs through it. Maybe six homes max.

If that. I'll be honest with you. We did some preliminary looking around soil-wise. Nothing official. We're going to be pushing to get four. I mean, to do it where you don't put a $100,000 septic system in. You know, I'm just saying that's where we're at. That's why we went this route. We were kind of encouraged to go this route because of what we were trying to do. Now it seems like we're trying to go a total different route. I'm not sure what feeling I'm getting there, whether you're for or against or what we're doing.

Well, short of discussion, short of trying to discuss which direction I would be inclined to vote, I'm just laying out sort of the things for the board to consider. And there ought to be a way to allow them to do what they're trying to do based on what they've stated, as well as meet the intents of the family subdivision ordinance.

So... How many times in the county are there one partial land zoned two different ways?

Well, Jason, property is...

This has been one partial since 1800s.

I can't tell you.

I'm just saying. And when the road came through when my grandfather was a kid, then the road split the farm. And then when the zone had happened, why it happened the way it did, I don't know.

We had something before us last month that had one little tiny lot carved out and rezoned. So with the way rezoning is done, I couldn't answer that question because I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if there's more examples of what you're talking about in the county. I'm just saying there ought to be a way to help them avoid the expense of doing the family subdivision the way the ordinance is written, but still allow them to do what they're trying to do. So I guess I'm just tossing it back to the to the county to explore whether something like that, if it was offered by them, would be acceptable and allow us to do. Because that places a 15-year restriction on the property. After that, they can do whatever they want. And the thing is, and I do this because I'm concerned about precedents, when you rezone a piece of property without understanding what's going on in it, for sure, because most rezonings come in here with a plan, you know, that's laid out and pretty specific. Once you rezone it, the county loses all control over it, and no matter how well-intentioned they are, circumstances change, and things may happen that the county don't want to happen or that, in this case, the base doesn't want to happen, but We're going to delay this a month. It's going to be an interesting discussion. I think we could cut it short and simplify it if the county could address what I'm suggesting and see if that's an appropriate workaround that makes everybody happy.

We can't ask for a proffer.

I'm not asking for a proffer. I'm asking the question that if they chose to offer a proffer like that, would it be acceptable?

Did you have any further comments, Mark? Yes, sir. Okay. The chair recognizes Ms. McGinnis.

Thank you. I just have a quick question. For this particular property, do you have any idea, like a ballpark, of how many perks happen on this lot? Like, have you gotten a survey done? Not.

Nothing official is done. We're told to go, want to go this route before we spend... A ton of money for nothing.

That would be your limitation right there.

I mean, the limitations, I mean, if you look at things and look at the area, there are limitations on that piece of property, very much so there's quite a few limitations over there. And the reason we're going to that side of the road is we're trying to keep the farm intact, which the county is trying to do, keeping the rural part of the county. We're trying to abide by where the county wants to go with some things. I mean, you know, I'm still of the opinion sometimes it's your land. You should be able to do some things, you know. I just, I don't quite understand all the concerns that Mr. Kendrick has.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

Board recognizes Brent. Just to confirm, the whole parcel is what, 131 acres, 131? No?

No, the whole thing with both sides. Both sides. Now, there's two lots carved off on the other side. It's about 118. 118? Somewhere in that range.

So you're talking 26 off 118, so what's that, 98? So in theory, they have cleared farmland. They could put 48 houses down there under 82 zoning restrictions right now. I get the concerns, but I also feel like we're making a mountain out of a molehill on land that really can't be overly developed. I drive back there a fair amount. I know what it looks like. Now, again, I understand concerns. I understand precedent.

Well, everybody keeps talking about the 13 houses. The possibilities into your thing, Gary, the when you break land like that, the county will is only going to let us break it. The most we can break it off the parcel is what four or five times right now. Yeah, so we can't break it more than four or five, whatever that number is. I don't know if it's four or five. We can't do any more than that. County won't allow it. That's in the deal right now.

But you could sell it to a developer, right, and then they could come in and do it.

Sorry?

They could sell the track to a developer, not suggesting you would after you've owned it since 1800. No.

No, even that couldn't happen. No. No, parent tracks can only be split five times.

So, I mean, we're already limited to what we can do. Yeah. So, to me, the limit is there.

And the mountain out of the molehill, Tom, is just out there.

I mean, the 90-some acre side you're talking about, we can only do four over there. We can only do four or five, whatever the number is, on the other side. That's all we're allowed to do.

If it's done as a family subdivision.

No, sir. No. No, sir. That is the way it is by parent track. That's the way it is now. On the other side of the road, the other reason we want to go to that side, the road split it so you have so much on each side. I went through that with these guys and got those answers. The max we could do on that side of the road where we're talking about is five, I think is right. Isn't that right, Kelly? Four or five.

Unless you're getting into the major subdivision requirements. Right. That is correct. Right. Major subdivisions would require.

Right up the road from us, 30 acres just went up for sale, got sold. They're putting a subdivision in there now, and they could only do five lots in there because of the parent tract and the way they did it. So that's all they were allowed to put in there.

Kelly, can you explain that a little bit?

It's the difference between a minor subdivision and a major subdivision. So a parent tract can be split up to five times as a minor subdivision. Once you go over that, you're in a whole different ballgame of ordinance requirements.

So, but on that larger parcel that they're speaking of, that's, if it's done as a... Major subdivision, they could divide it more.

And you'd have to put roads and do and all that stuff.

That parcel that we're talking about, that larger parcel is zoned what, A2? A2. A2. If they went in with a major subdivision, they could do two acre lots and however many lots came out of that.

Theoretically, yes, if the infrastructure is put in

Yeah, I mean, it's always dependent upon, you know, what the land will support and that kind of thing. But so, okay, I think I understand.

So right now, today, as owners, they can only put five houses on the other side of the road if they wanted to.

Without creating a major...

Without creating some crazy... Major...

So just to confirm...

Totally, yes.

There's a possibility... Hold on a second.

But it would be incredibly expensive, and I can understand why you guys would never even think about it.

And everybody would have to come back before you guys to even do something like that. That would be a major crazy thing.

Okay. The floor recognizes Brett. Did you have further comments?

So just to clarify... If this was ever, let's assume for a moment that something catastrophic happened and it went to a developer and they wanted to do a major subdivision, they would have to come back and get approval, correct?

From us.

From us, as in us here. Or the county in general.

Yes, the county.

So once again, we are making a major mountain out of a small molehill. You have 92 acres of cleared, developable farmland across the road already zoned A2. And we're worried about the potential for at most 13 additional tracks across the road, even though there's in the same parcel.

Well, it's on the same parcel. I know. It's all the one piece of property.

I get it. But I think we're overreacting a little bit about this specific case.

I would not disagree with you. And I think, in my opinion, when it comes down to it, it's a minor change. And given that that area is already a little bit of a jigsaw puzzle, I was just looking for a way to honor the family subdivision without making them go through the cost of it. But if that avenue is shut down from my opinion, I think I already know which direction I'll go. The county already protects that intent.

They could sell it to somebody else, but that person who bought it can't go ahead and do the worst. So we're already protected against it. Now it's essentially rectifying the zoning across the road. For the same family.

And right now, today, we could put two houses over, no questions asked. Break it off and do. We're asking to go A2 so we could possibly do four if that time comes about. And the reason we didn't go and present something to do, some of those kids can't afford to have all that done right now or don't want to put money into it because they may never come back here.

Understood. And I understand why you want to be equitable to at least offer it to all the grandchildren. I get all that. I'm just saying.

They still will have total control until something happens. I mean, they have that now.

And Brett has one last question for you. This is actually for Telly. And Telly, we are required to wait the 30 days for the naval base to come back with their commentary. We can't just plow ahead.

Yes.

Okay. Thank you. Okay, I'll ask a couple of comments. I'm just clarifying things because I think there is some confusion. The light green up here is zoned A1, which means the density is 10 acres per development. But that side is approximately 24 acres? 26. 26 acres.

To be honest with you, the old, the plats, you know, back in those days, you owned the road. Right, right. We may be paying taxes on state highway. I mean, you know, as far as that goes.

The darker green color is zoned A2. That means by right they could do two acre. Yeah, two acre lot. So if they wanted to do a major subdivision, they certainly have oodles of density.

Can I show you something on the map?

Yeah.

So, you know, King George GIS is way off.

Okay. All right. That's true. It seems to me that the the nature of the request is that I've driven by there and I've seen that beautiful farm and if we don't use the other side of the property which is woods and For houses, we'll have to cut up farmland and use that to do what they got to do. I want to clarify, you're not asking for us to give you a special family subdivision. We're asking to change the split zoning on that property from A1 to A2. Most of the property is already A2. It's weird that it's split zoned.

Right.

Is that correct? We're trying to get the zoning the same on both sides of the road. Yep. So in that aspect, they have a right to do a family subdivision, but in all likelihood, they won't do a family subdivision. It's not required. They won't need to do that. If the zoning is correct, they can just split it up like everybody else, and if their property hadn't been split zoned, they would have just already done it. Is that the case in a nutshell? Okay.

And in all reality, and I know where you're at, Gary. I understand that. But, like I say, some of these kids or whoever may not come back. I mean, there's no guarantee, you know, who wants to do what at this point. We have possibly one that's interested because he wants to start taking over and helping do some of the day-to-day operation, you know. Like I say, Dad and I are getting a little older. So, you know.

One thing that we have to do as a commission is that we have to be impartial. We have to consider everything.

And I get that. I understand Gary's trying to protect the county as far as that side of it goes. But by what Kelly and I have discussed and we've been and we've sat down multiple times with Lucy and her and we were advised kind of felt like this is the right route to go. And to your thing, Gary, is we can't do but five over there at the most in-house. Without coming back with some elaborate plan.

Everything that you're asking for makes all the sense in the world. And it's a small enough parcel that rezoning it isn't a big deal. I worry about precedence. The next time somebody comes in here with a 26-acre parcel of land, that isn't as constrained as this Berry property is, and they're trying to get around it based on what we did on this one. But if push comes to shove, what they're asking for makes sense.

So I'll finish my final comment. It's just that we have to maintain impartiality until we've heard from everybody. Not that anything will change, but it wouldn't be fair for us to make a determination or a consideration before we've heard

So answer this for me. So it's open just for the base for the next 30 days?

The public comment period will stay open for 30 days.

The public comment period actually stays open that long also? Yeah. Okay.

It sounds... We'll come back to this board one more time next month, and then we'll either recommend rezoning or not. So... You've got to come back again is what I'm telling you.

Yeah, we discussed that.

It sounds like you've received very good advice, and I couldn't be happier with the community development. They're so nice and friendly. What a breath of fresh air from what it used to be. That is all that we have.

Can I remind, Ms. Moncure wanted to make a comment.

Oh, yeah, of course.

Do we try to get her on, Chris? Judy, can you hear us? Not serious.

Mark, do you want to unmute? I can try. I can read what you wrote.

Oh, did she write something? She wrote it down?

Yes, she wrote it in the chat for Teams.

Okay. Yeah, go ahead, Chris.

Oh, she just said that we let them know when it's time for comment that I see no issue with this. I've talked to some of the neighbors and they're okay with the project.

Thank you. Okay.

Okay. So the public comment period remains open, right? So we won't close that. Um, we have no items deferred from previous meetings.

Can you make a, can we do a motion to defer action, just for the record?

Oh, yep. A motion that we defer the vote on application Z, TAC 2026, TAC 00045, to the next regularly scheduled meeting. Second. All in favor?

Aye.

Ms. Tootie on the internet? I don't know if we can hear from her.

Should we put anything in the chat, Chris? Did 2D vote?

Mark here says yes.

Okay.

Thank you. Motion reflect unanimous. So there being no items deferred from previous meetings, there is no old business, new business. We have a presentation from Isaac Luthold with Hanwha Renewables, the Gibson Solar Special Exception.

Good evening. My name is Isaac Luthold. I'm with Hanwha Renewables, and I'm here to give an informational presentation about the Gibson Solar Project. As many of you know, the Gibson Solar Project was presented to the county last year. At the time, the project was owned by Open Road. Honwell Renewables has acquired that project and resubmitted the application for a special exception permit. So this informational session is primarily aimed at informing both the Planning Commission and of course the general public that will be reading the comments about what has changed on the project as well as re-familiarization with the project in general. So with that being said, let me step over to the board because I think it will be the easiest to talk about what has changed on the project and what's different. One of the major changes on the project is that our company shrunk the project's footprint based on community feedback. One of the things that we heard was that the previous footprint, which extended on both sides of Kings Highway, was too sprawling and that the project would be a better fit for the unique considerations of King George County if it were consolidated to just one side of the highway and the overall acreage was reduced as well. Previously, the project was just shy of 2,000 acres. Currently the project is around 1400 acres of parcels that would be in the special exception permit. You can see pretty faintly on here where the panels are. Those panels, as written in the application, would sit on about 640 acres. So of the site that is roughly 1400 acres, only half of it will actually have panels sitting on it. The remainder of the ground will largely stay in its natural state. One of the things to point out about this project is that a large portion of the land is commercial pine plantations. And so the landowners will likely harvest that pine as they would do to collect the revenue they've planned on. And so the project comes in after that. The project intends to establish new pasture. So many of the things that the planning commission members who were on this commission previously will remember is that this is actually a dual use facility. It will host solar panels, but in the solar panel area, which is 600 plus acres, there will be sheep grazing, livestock grazing. So it'll be dual use for energy production and for agricultural production, major agricultural production in this case. We plan to use the haul routes along Big Timber Road and north to south along Prim Road. These are the least trafficked roads, and we plan to avoid Round Hill Road because it has both more traffic and more residences. You can also see on the map that there are very limited number of residences that are within 300 feet of the parcel boundary, keeping in mind that the panels themselves are behind 100 foot thick vegetative buffer. So there's quite a separation between the two. Additionally, we are maintaining the desired inverter setback. The inverters are the noisiest part of a very quiet facility. Inverters, for a frame of reference, are about as loud as an air conditioning unit if you're standing right next to it. And so the sound usually dissipates within just a few hundred feet. two or 300 feet. In our case, we're gonna continue to go above and beyond that and keep the inverters 500 feet away from parcel lines. So there should be no noise heard by any neighbors. And visually, of course, the project is obscured by the 100 foot thick vegetative buffer. So I wanted to present that for a re-familiarization on the project. You've seen this footprint before. It is the same parcels, but we did reduce and remove all the parcels which were to the west and south of Kings Highway. We anticipate that in one of your coming meetings, of course, the actual hearing on the recommendation regarding the special exception permit will come up. But we wanted to have this informational session for a re-familiarization to allow time for everyone to think about it. Of course, feel free to contact me with questions, and you're always welcome to attend one of our open houses, which we've been holding somewhat regularly since we submitted the permit application. Thank you for your time this evening.

Thank you. Do we have questions? Let's go in. We're going to start with Brett this time.

Two questions. The vegetative buffer Is that going to be newly planted or are you leaving the existing hardwoods, softwoods that are on the properties?

Where there is existing forest line or tree line, it will remain in place. And where there is not existing, the new vegetation will be planted. Let me point out on the map where that is, since I've got an overlay that's not aerial imagery. So on this map, the vast majority of the acreage is timbered acreage, commercial pine plantations. So that will retain the 100 foot thick vegetative buffer that is the existing tree line.

So are you just real quick for you on that? You also mentioned that the current property owners before the project started would be timbering their land. pine plantations, would they be retaining those buffers? Are you paying them to retain those buffers? Or are they going to clear out the entire parcel and you have to start over?

The project is going to ensure that those buffers are maintained. That's correct. But for the project, the typical practice would be for a landowner to harvest all the timber. Because the project is in existence, a vegetative buffer will remain in place. which button is the laser pointer? Top green, there we go. So really the places that do not have existing tree line is the portion of Big Timber Road that I'm pointing out with the laser pointer, which is mostly within the first half mile after turning off of Kings Highway. And then there's a small portion with a more scattered tree line where Big Timber Road turns north-south. So any of these locations will have newly installed vegetative buffer, but the entirety of the rest of the site has existing forest on it, and that will be maintained.

And the second question is, you said, and maybe I misheard you, but you're intending to use Big Timber in prim as the roads to fulfill the project build?

That's correct. So we call them whole routes, but the construction traffic bringing in all the materials and everything would be directed along.

Have you driven Prim Road recently?

Yes, I have.

You're not going to have any issues with that little bridge over the creek and that hairpin turn down there?

Where there is an infrastructure constraint is where we'll work with our EPC to determine the best route that's necessary. So we look at these, and sometimes we think of these as an entire circuit when we look at a map like this, but when it comes to actually constructing, it's useful to remember that they will be constructing roads, temporary and otherwise, within the project area. So should we need to have a sort of turnaround? We can. When it comes to, you're referring to where it crosses.

I know it well.

Yep. So when it comes to that location, that's where we work with VDOT and our construction partner to determine the best approach. Construction is planned to begin in 2028. So the project is not yet at the phase where those exact parameters have been determined, but they will be in due course.

Got it. I'm probably good.

A couple of questions. How many head of sheep are anticipated for this project? Do you know off the top?

Yeah, we have a general estimate. So we will see as the project develops what the stocking rate can hold, but it's anticipated this time that it'll be between two and four head per acre. So in this case, we anticipate the flock will start with a lower number and then grow over time to hundreds of sheep.

And do you have any idea where the water to support those sheep will be coming from?

The livestock operation already in existence here is a good frame of reference. So that's a cattle livestock operation. Otherwise, the ability for the agricultural operator, the grazer, to either have a well supply of water or some other water supply, which could include trucking water in as necessary, is what will be evaluated. Similar to the exact road use during construction, it's a little premature to be able to nail down those exact details, but you can think of the agricultural operation very much like any agricultural operation. in terms of its requirements, because it will be standard grazing just as a dual use underneath the solar panels.

And I do have one other question. I had students living around this area when the last project was being discussed, and they had mentioned a promise that roads would be paved. Has there been any promise of paving roads like Maddox Road or any of the other unpaved roads in the back? Has that been offered at all?

Yes, ma'am, it has. So in the conditions with the permit application, it does have a section that details out roads to be upgraded. And tar and chip, I think, is the proposed actual surfacing technique. I'd have to double check on the language there. And that includes Maddox Drive. And actually, this spur, which is not labeled, is Branch. And it includes that as well. Also in the conditions is an upgrade contemplated for big timber. So the roads will be better than they are now.

Do I have one more? Can I ask one more question? Also, just quickly, is there a decommissioning plan available for this? You know, obviously solar panels have a limited lifespan. Is that available to see the decommissioning plan?

Yes, ma'am. The decommissioning plan is part of the application package and is a standalone exhibit that can be reviewed. It's also referenced in other parts of the application package, like the conditions.

Thank you. Certainly.

Chair recognizes Mark Jennings. Thank you. So one of the biggest concerns that the board had when the previous project was rejected is how the project would handle water. Do you have an engineered drainage model for this site? And how is that going to be different from the previous proposal in terms of how it handled stormwater?

Yeah, I can certainly speak to stormwater. So for stormwater, like many engineering processes, you start with a conceptual plan, you work to more and more detail. So there is a conceptual plan already around where settlement basins would be located and how water flow would be handled. Very thorough, it goes above and beyond the revamped DEQ requirements. So as many of you know, Virginia increased the requirements in order to avoid any stormwater pollution concerns, which is sediment runoff. And this project not only meets those increased requirements, but expects to exceed them as well. So there's a very thorough stormwater management plan

And then what are the expectations for when this is going to start generating tax revenue and how much revenue do you anticipate it generating every year throughout the lifespan of the project?

Yeah, it's probably useful for me to talk about the overall timeline, which will include the tax revenue generation. So construction is anticipated to start in twenty twenty eight. and finish in 2029. So the project would begin commercial operations selling energy in 2029. The tax revenue would be based off of the capital expenditure on the project. As part of the application package and economic analysis was also submitted. And the current estimation on the project's capital expenditure, its tax base, is $160 million. And so once the project is established and built, then you get your actual capital expenditure, and then that can be factored into the tax base. And so 2028, 2029, of course, is when that capital expenditure is happening and when the county would then start to see tax revenue flowing off the actual capital expenditure. As you can guess, like many things, inflation will likely hit. So between Now and then the capital expenditure money, that amount of 160 million, will likely increase, but that is the current estimate. There's also the siting agreement. So that is a separate agreement, but it is accompanied by voluntary payment to the county, which can take a variety of forms contrary to the tax structure, which is a very set thing in a formulaic approach, the siting agreement can adjust the voluntary payment form in many ways, whether that's a straight line or a lump sum. And so in terms of overall county revenue that the county will see, It could take a variety of shapes. There will be a steady tax payment, and then there might be a large lump sum payment that is around construction, or the county may elect to have that more of a linear function. And those are all things that will work out with the county as we proceed in the process.

Okay, and then one last question, just to circle back on decommission. Is the bond for decommission going to be inflation adjusted, and how much do you anticipate that being?

Yeah, how does that bond adjust over time? So there's an estimation made by a professional engineer, a third party independent professional engineer, on what the cost to decommission the site would be. And then that is factored into what the decommissioning bond needs to be. An important point is that in this county, that is not net of salvage. So these sites are made with mostly glass and steel. So there's a lot of readily recyclable material. So your decommissioning bond covers full cost and ignores salvage value. But we have included in the application package for further peace of mind that there's significant salvage value. Every few years, I believe it's every five years, but I'll have to look up, Thank you, Kelly. Every five years, the professional engineer re-evaluates what that decommissioning cost will be. So in the example of an inflation kicking in where that cost increases, that would then be reflected in the engineer's analysis, and the bond amount due or covered would increase coincidentally.

Thank you. Good questions, Mark. Mr. Nicely?

Yeah, just a few quick questions. In the package that's already been submitted, I'm assuming a lot of it is already in the county and we can go take a look at it. Do you have a map in there that shows what of this property is actually in these commercial pine forests so that we can get an estimate? One of the concerns that we had was how much forest is going to be torn, you know, taken down. Certainly the part that's already a commercial pine forest is going to come down anyway. How much other acreage are you clearing that's not expected to be forested? It'd be nice to see that on the map to see where those are. I don't know if you have that acreage off the top of your head about how much is going to be deforested that's not in commercial pine forests.

Yeah, I think I understand your question and I think you can speak to it. So first, that's not an exhibit that is part of the formal application package. But it is something that we have a map for. So I can provide you that map. There is coincidentally a professional forester did an independent study to determine exactly the types of harvestable timber and when they're likely harvestable time frame would be. So the map that I can provide you, and Kelly, I'm assuming I would email it to you and you would distribute, will display the type of timber. Is it a pine plantation or is it a mixed hardwood, tree stand and it's expected harvesting year. And I think that will satisfy all the inquiry there.

Yeah, that would be very good for us to understand because I know that was some of the concerns of some of the previous panels.

Yeah, certainly.

Commission's concerns. The other one, the next one I have is, I'm assuming in there you also have detailed maps about any delineated wetlands and RPAs and exactly where you're planning to cross those and how you're planning to cross those. We went into that pretty in detail last time you all came before us.

Yes, that's correct. So the board I'm displaying today is a simplified board that we use at open houses, but the application package contains drawings that are your engineer-type drawings with those specific overlays on them. Where are the panels located? Where are the fences? Where are the access roads? How does that compare to delineated wetlands? All of those are in those drawings. And if I might, I was just going to share the anecdote. If we look at this map, you ask, you know, how much is commercial pine plantation? How much is naturally occurring forest? I think it's most useful to think of the site as two sections. I'll call this the western section. and then I'll call this the eastern section. So the eastern section is far and away planted pine plantations. There are a few tree stands mostly along creek areas, the resource protection areas, RPAs, which are your mixed hardwoods because that's an area that they don't go in and tear everything up and plant pines anyway. But other than that, almost the entirety of this eastern section is planted pine plantation. And then as you come over to the western section, there are some scattered areas of natural hardwood growth and mixed hardwood that we wouldn't necessarily think of as a commercial tree farm, although those are intended to be harvested by the landowner, but they're actually a minority. And this will be very easy to see on the map I'll provide. A lot of this area is also a pine plantation intended to be harvested.

Dylan, could you explain to me how you're planning to do the wildlife corridors? Because is it true that this entire solar panel, or at least where the panels are, are going to be fenced? Or is the entire shaded green area going to be fenced? Exactly how are you implementing these wildlife corridors that are passing right through your solar farms?

Yeah, certainly I can explain that. So the ordinance does require fencing around the electrical facilities, so that's the solar panels. So everywhere that you see solar panels, there is a fence line around it. On this simplified map, I don't have that fence line displayed, but it is the basic perimeter of each what we call a block of solar panels. What you'll notice is I put the deer tracks to symbolize the wildlife corridors in between these blocks of panels. So there is no fence in that area. Okay. And that's what makes it a conducive wildlife corridor.

So your intent is to only really fence in where the panels are, not the entire green that we see on these maps. The green is kind of the property that's going to be part of this project, but it's not all fenced.

That is correct. So in this particular map where we have the lighter green is just areas, specifically parcels, outside of our special exception permit application. and where we show the darker green, are the parcels that are part of the special exception permit. But like I was saying earlier, that's about 1400 acres. We're only using about 600 for the panels themselves. And so just as you described, the fenced area is not around the perimeter of the entire parcel that is on the special exception permit. It is only around the perimeter of a block of solar panels. And as we can see, there are multiple different blocks of solar panels. And that's what makes the wildlife corridor so effective.

Thank you. I'm sure we'll have more questions, so hopefully take a look at your entire package.

Thank you.

Mr. Kendrick? A couple of quick ones. How many different parcel owners are involved in this project?

Yeah, there are nine land blocks. I say land blocks because, for example, Barbara Roberson owns this large section here, and it's many different parcels. But in terms of families that own the land, it's nine. There are also easement attached. So the thinner areas are easement areas. As you can guess, there are no solar panels going there. There's no activity going there that requires a special exception permit. Nothing that's being done that requires special exception per se. But they are included in this diagram. And so there's two landowners there. So that would be nine plus two is 11.

Those others are just electrical connection easements? Or are they... or are they construction easements? The two that you connect there.

They serve both purposes, allowing vehicle access and then also allowing underground power lines to be trenched in place and covered back up again to make that electrical connection.

All right. I appreciate, as you said, when you come back, you'll bring some delineation of the hardwoods versus the pines, but Right now, out of the 1400 acre site, how many acres of trees are gonna be removed?

Yeah, so I can provide an exact figure, of course, on the map as we account for that 100 foot thick vegetative buffer. I don't know that number off the top of my head. One thing that I can say that's a good reference is when we think about already cleared area versus treed area, there's about 200 acres here of pasture. There's about 80 acres of cropland right here, and there's about 12 acres of cropland right here. The rest of the land cover is treed area. Now of course there are streams running through, and I showed the stream trunks, but there are stream branches, there are wetland areas, and that timber would remain in place. That's a resource protection area. The rest of the timbered area, that acreage, is planned to be harvested by the landowner. So if we look at the roughly two to 300 acres that comprise the pasture land and the crop land, and then we compare that against the 600 acres that I talked about the panels going on, then we're talking about a few hundred acres that is forested that will then host panels. It's important to note that that will turn into pasture land. As far as the landowners and their entire harvest, I cannot speak for them in terms of whether they do intend to clear all of the land minus the vegetative buffer or if they would only clear certain portions of it. So I can't definitively give you an acreage number, but it is something I can circle back with you on.

Yeah, I'd like for you to try.

Based on his estimates right there and the listed 640 acres, it would be at most 342 acres would be deforested.

Check those numbers. When the current owners harvest their pine forest, are you guys planning on replanting? Are you in the areas that don't have solar panels? Are you replanting or is there a plan for the land after it's harvested?

There's not a final plan, but what we are doing is we're working with a land trust to develop a land management plan. So one of the things that I'm very looking forward to is talking with the county and the community around what sort of use of this land that's not having solar panels on it could be achieved. So is that something where we allow trees to grow back up? Is there a different habitat that's desirable to get established? Is there a trail network that might be beneficial to the community? All of these things are under examination to determine, but we don't have a final decided land use plan at this point for the acreage that does not host solar panels.

Okay. That bothers me a little bit, but okay. One more thing about the tax revenue. Come back with a reasonable estimate based on the tax rates in the county. I get the feeling some people think these are windfall projects for the county. I'm not convinced they are.

And the exact figures are already in the economic analysis report that's part of the application package.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you, Mr. Kendrick. I think Brett had a further comment.

Yeah, a couple others, small ones. You just got to one, though, to dovetail on the usage of the land that's not in the project. What's going to happen when the overall project is done? So just using the previous application as a beacon, that was a four-year project, I believe, and they were proffering or offering or whatever the official term was at the time, to ultimately turn all the land over to the county for county use at the end of the 40-year life cycle of the project. So my question would be, are you looking at the same thing? Do you have a recommendation for the end of the cycle at this point, or the life cycle at this point? And then, Gary, to answer your question real fast, assuming this is a 40-year project, they are estimating $11 million over course of the project, so you're looking at about $275,000 a year to the county. Rough math. So it's not a whole lot of money, which would make sense because I believe the previous applicant was somewhere in the $640,000 range, and this is a smaller project. And then my other question was Prim Road, I believe, was freshly tarred and chipped about three to four years ago. So if you're moving heavy machinery down through there, who takes over the ownership and the maintenance of PRIM once the project is built out.

Yeah, maybe we start from the top. So your first question was, or your first comment maybe was a numbers on the, yeah. Yeah, okay. So for the decommissioning plan, what happens to the land when all of the solar goes away? The decommissioning plan is only focused on the facilities themselves. So it does not determine or state what's going to happen with the land. What is already set up with the land, though, is that it's in a conservation easement that's in escrow. So obviously the project does not own the land yet. but the project would own a little over 1,000 acres of the 1,400 acres. So for that 1,000 acres, there is a conservation easement that's actually already executed and sitting in escrow should the project occur. What that conservation easement states is that that land would stay in agricultural or silvicultural use in perpetuity. So when we think about what is the long-term future of the land after the project goes away, It is cropland, pastureland, or woodland.

I would encourage you to look at the previous applicant's plan and what they were offering to do with the land at the end of their project. That was something that was very positively looked upon by...

I do not remember them offering to give that land to the county. They were planning to put it in a conservation, which would preclude it from ever turning into a residential suburb.

I'm 95% positive that they said at the end of the project life cycle that land would turn over to the county for the county to do whatever they wanted with. I should be mistaken.

I'm about 95% sure it was putting in a conservation.

Kelly, you've got to set us straight in this meeting.

In any case, like I mentioned around land management, land use plan, it's a conversation on the whole that we're looking forward to having with the county because not only is there the land after the project is decommissioned, the land during the 40-year lifespan, but there's the land on year one that doesn't get used for solar panels, and I think there's a lot that can be done for community benefit with that land that the project doesn't require but could benefit the county in unique ways. So I think all of those agenda items or all of those topics are something that we're looking forward to discussing with the county.

Is Ms. Monacure online? Does she have any questions?

Yeah, you had a couple other points.

So you talked about... Prim road maintenance, since it's a tar and chip road.

Right. And just before I get to that, you commented on the tax revenue. So the economic impact analysis does a good job of describing the tax revenue that is the formulaic tax versus the siting agreement. So one thing I've always found helpful is to look at those numbers added together because when you always look at them in a lump sum, it can become confusing whether the project is generating more tax revenue than previous or different. In this case, it is correct, the project is smaller. The previous project was 134 megawatts in size. This project is 100 megawatts in size. So it's a significant reduction in the power output. Of course, that comes with a reduction in the facilities being built and a potential reduction in the overall capital expenditure. Of course, we'll see what happens with inflation. And then, in addition, are the voluntary payments under the siting agreement. So it's always useful to understand the overall economic benefit to the county in that light. The economic analysis also helps to describe in comparison the gross figures versus the relative figures. How much does this generate in reference to what it would if it were just agricultural land, and how does that compare to helping to balance the county budget? And then the last item was Prim Road. So of course, any damages caused by construction traffic, which is heavy traffic, heavy trucks I should say, will be repaired by the project, paid for by the project, and then ultimately the roads surfacing as laid out in the conditions so that after construction of this project the roads are in a good condition and ideally in an even better condition than they were previous to the project coming in to help fulfill the project's goal, Gibson Solar's goal, of being a good neighbor and a great fit for the county.

Okay. Is Judy online?

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Does she have any questions?

Ms. Moncure, do you have any questions? She does not, Mr. Chair.

Okay.

I'll just finish up my comments. An advantage of going at the end is that most of the questions that I had have been answered. I think that you guys, it looks like you're starting off this project right with a lot of community input. I've already heard from one citizen that it was looking favorably based on the improvements that you made to your plan. I'll speak to the tax money. I think that's important to the county and And even though the numbers aren't big numbers compared to the data centers we've been considering, I'll point out that I'll bet most of this land is in land use and it generates zero tax revenue now. So it will now generate some tax revenue to help pay for the fire department and police department. My understanding is there will be very few employees here, and the load on our services that they'll be required is going to be extra low. So the money that they're providing is different than, say, the tax on a house would, you know, if a tax If a house generates a dollar, it typically costs us a little more than a dollar to maintain the services to it. All this money is going to come to us with a very small ask. So it'll be able to be used by the county favorably. I don't have any other further comments for you.

Okay, well, I appreciate the time tonight and the opportunity to present to you all. Anyone can always reach me at my email address, which is isaac.leuthold at hanwellrenewables.com. It's featured on the project website, which is gibsonsolarva.com. gibsonsolarva.com has a lot of information about the project. It has documents that can be downloaded, and it also has an interactive community portal where folks can submit a question or just get in contact with the project team. Thank you for your time.

Sorry, one last question. When is your next public session?

The open houses?

Open houses.

Yeah, so we've been holding open houses about once a month, so I anticipate holding another one in October. The exact date is not set, but I do anticipate it being the first half of the month. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Kelly, I think we have a staff report next on the agenda, 2026 director. Okay.

The monthly report is in your agenda. Let me know if you guys have any questions. We are also working on making updates to our ordinance. Greg and his team recently completed an analysis of the last three years of actions taken by the General Assembly. and what changes are required to be put into our code. We identified about 50 ordinance updates that need to be made just from those changes that the General Assembly enacted. And then staff is also going through to, for lack of a better term, fix some issues that have come up over the last couple of years. So this is going to be a public process. Hopefully not too lengthy. We've already been keeping notes for the last couple of years of what needed to be fixed in the ordinance. So we're actively working on that. That's all I have for staff reports.

That zoning ordinance, will that include the subdivision road?

Yes.

Excellent. Any other questions for Kelly?

You said there was approximately 50 updates, 5-0?

50 from the General Assembly updates plus approximately 50 more of things that staff has identified.

Are those in a location where we can start looking at what those changes are at this point?

We're still compiling them. Okay. Yeah, I'll let you know. Thank you. Mm-hmm.

I have no committee reports, and we have, I guess, a commission report, the Comprehensive Plan Steering Advisory Committee discussion. Prior to the meeting tonight, my understanding was that they had not ratified the steering commission, but Kelly says that they have. So they're asking us to appoint

Yeah, the board has made consensus that they do want to have a steering committee for the comp plan update. Each board member to appoint two from their district and then two of the planning commissioners. That's the desired. We're working on finalizing the language for their charter, and that's going to be on their first meeting in October. So the discussion tonight was to start talking about who you might want to serve on the steering committee. The planning commission is going to have a big role in the comp plan update regardless, but they did want to have two members of the PC on the actual steering committee.

So as far as tonight, um, you're not expecting this election tonight. Is that correct?

Your next meeting is not going to be until October. So it would be helpful to get two people nominated who want to serve on it.

So just to clarify, um, so I haven't seen, I haven't seen what the steering committee is going to do. Um, Obviously the code of Virginia says we're making the conference plan the Planning Commission is going to do that the steering committee is My understanding is going to be an additional input. It's not going to meet very often. It's is it four times a year Okay, and the the goal of the steering committee is outreach to the community. It's an additional If that's the case, then I don't see it being an issue as to moving forward with the planning committee. Who is going to write the comprehensive plan? Will we have a role in that?

It'll be collaborative, but mostly the consultants. Yeah, they're under contract to do the work.

Will the consultants come to the Planning Commission to report or will they only report to the Steering Committee?

No, they'll come to both.

Okay.

Yep, all the Steering Committee meetings will be open to the public for anybody to attend. It's just kind of more of a guiding team of residents.

And the Steering Committee, the function of the Planning Commissioners on the Steering Committee is to report back To the Planning Commission the results or whether it's steering committee report to the Planning Commission the results Through you I guess I think that the Planning Commissioners that get appointed to the steering committee would do a monthly update So this here on the Commission reports each each month will report back on what what the steering committee is doing.

Yes, okay We have all this documented somewhere about how this is going to No, I mean, without the steering committee and, you know, I was at the Board of Supervisors meeting when they first talked about this and they didn't have a definitive plan. How many public meetings, how many meetings with the Planning Commission, how many meetings with the Board of Supervisors, what the schedules were. This is all still, I'm still pretty confused about who's doing what and who's reporting to who and who's really going to have their, their, Fingerprints on this plant on this comprehensive plan in the end that if you're not on that steering committee You're gonna get left out and are you gonna do is get told what happened?

That's my concern I mean it was all laid out in their RFP proposal how many meetings How many times they'll come back to report to y'all how many times they'll come back to report to the board Can we get a summary of that?

like easily broken down to digest the proposal I have where it stands now based on but where the board is as of today. As I I've heard multiple things I don't I don't really know what is the straight line at this point.

I can work with the chair and Mister small like to try to put something together I just At the last board meeting, they talked about it and decided that they do want to do the steering committee and that it should include two members of the planning commission. So that was kind of the discussion.

Is the roles and responsibilities of that steering committee clearly documented somewhere versus the roles and responsibilities of the planning commission?

The steering committee will have a charter that gets adopted. It's not there yet. They're working on it.

Sounds like it's all still gray. I'm still struggling.

I don't know that anybody here is comfortable saying how much they want to be involved until that charter is understood. Because I think if it limits the involvement ultimately of the planning commission, then most of us are probably going to want to be involved. Right. But if it is essentially a day-to-day steering committee for real, and then there's a lot of collaborative work that takes place, all the feedback to understanding the expertise of this commission also into effect, then you're probably going to get people more willing to say, okay, why don't we just let the two that the board wants move forward with it? But without understanding what that charter would be, I don't think any of us are comfortable saying one way or another what we want our involvement to be.

Well, actually, I'm almost the opposite. I'd rather throw my hat in the ring so that I can stay maximally involved.

I don't know that I'm not gonna you know be involved very much and it's all relegated to the steering committee so so it can't be relegated to the steering committee so if you look at Code of Virginia 15.2 dash 2223 that says the local Planning Commission shall prepare and recommend the comprehensive plan that that's not optional that means we definition definition of prepare

They all write it and they send it to us and we get a thumbs up and we get it edited. So that's different than preparing. Contractor is going to be the one that actually prepares the document.

I would definitely agree with what Mr. Nicely is saying. I'm also concerned. I don't want the steering committee writing their own charter. So I think it, somebody not, the steering committee members needs to figure out what they really want that group to do. I'm all for public engagement and public participation and putting it together, but I don't want to see a handful of citizens in the county who may be coming from one perspective or the other trying to drive it just because they're on a small body.

I can share with you the draft charter that Jackie has started to put together that the board members are currently looking through. Just to give a quick summary, it's got all the whereases, who the county hired to work on the plan, the EPR, consultant to lead the comp plan process, work closely with the steering committee that has been appointed by the Board of Supervisors, the charter, The committee's purpose is to serve as an advisory committee to the board of supervisors. The committee will work with the county's consultant to ultimately recommend language to the board and reports to the planning commission. The committee is a public body for the purposes of FOIA. Each district supervisor shall appoint two members to the committee. In addition, the committee shall also consist of two planning commission members. Let's see. Officers a chair vice chair and a secretary that's typically staff Duties and powers of the officers the chair shall provide child preside at the meetings Committee shall hold regular meetings as needed a place and time determined by the committee quorum voting procedures the committee shall present periodic reports of the committee's activities to the Planning Commission and the Board of Supervisors and So it's your basic public body charter.

Doesn't say much.

What did you say, Mr. Kendrick?

That's very general. Like I said, it's going to be personality driven, and that scares me a little bit. You've got People in this county who likely could be appointed by the Board of Supervisors who violently anti-growth, violently, you know, property owner rights, business folks who are more worried about developing the county, you know, you got all kinds of different perspectives coming through. I'd like to see some kind of a charter written that sort of a little bit clearer defines just what the role of the steering committee is. Now, I'm hopeful, and what I've seen in past ones is that the contractor that's been hired to develop this will drive a lot of that based on our old comprehensive plan and comprehensive plans in counties, particularly surrounding us. I don't know what the balance is by having citizen input versus citizens control. I'm concerned that the steering committee is going to try to give a little small group of citizens control. And we're going to be sitting here arguing about why what they presented to us shouldn't just be rubber stamped and sent to the Board of Supervisors.

I agree 100%. It seems redundant to the charter of the Planning Commission. Is the steering committee, is that going to be a public? Will they have public meetings? But they're only going to meet four times a year.

I don't know the exact number of meetings, but that was in the proposal, yeah.

For public meetings or for steering committee meetings?

I think there were four. I'd have to look at it. I don't have it.

Is the steering committee going to be governed by the same rules we are, public hearings, and they have to be announced and scheduled and all that good stuff, and the public is invited to listen? Yes. Okay.

So every time they meet, it would have to be in this type of a forum?

Yes.

Are you guys thinking we'll leave the vacancies until we see exactly what it is? Yes. I would prefer that. Yeah. Mark? So do we have a motion to that effect?

Motion to leave Steering Committee Planning Commission seats vacant until we see a full charter. of the steering committee.

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Ms. Moncure, if she's there. Let the record reflect six in favor of that motion. So what...

This is what I understand, you guys. Okay. So you want to see the adopted charter that the board adopts before figuring out who wants to serve on the steering committee, planning commission.

I think we want to know how all of this is supposed to work. Like, what is our specific role as the planning commission outside of the two individuals who end up on the steering committee? Absent that knowledge, I think every person on this dais right now would raise their hand to be on the steering committee.

Okay.

Right? Because there's a concern well-founded or not, can't say because we just don't know fully at this time, but I think there is a concern being expressed here that we are getting relegated to the side when Virginia law says that it's supposed to effectively be routed through us. Now, I'm not a fancy lawyer, so maybe I don't get that properly, but that is the concern that I think is being expressed.

Can we ask Greg to weigh in on that as far as 15.2-2223 and who makes the comprehensive plan?

Yeah, I would just add that whatever is written in the charter would not override what the Code of Virginia says. So the Planning Commission's role as defined in Virginia Code could not be superseded by whatever is established in the charter. Also, my understanding is, as proposed right now, the charter couldn't be voted on until the two planning commission members are added.

Yeah, mate. About...

The desire, anyway. That was... We were hopeful.

So our dilemma, which I think we all share, including the chair, I'm just vice chair, everybody would like to be Part of that, that's our role, and that's why we're here. So to say two are going to have a bigger say than the others is undesirable.

If we could get some kind of an understanding of what this steering committee is doing, two of us off of this group carrying our joint message back to them, probably would work. I would, I'm just sitting here thinking off the cuff, but I'd love to have it stated very, very plainly that the steering committee produces a draft which comes to us to finalize before being sent to the, you know, the county supervisors. Of course.

I think it would be helpful to have a delineation of duties and responsibilities between both the planning commission and the steering group. I think that would probably be the language we could get away with without having to agree to a charter, duties versus responsibilities, and maybe deliverables of both.

Could we, do you think it would be reasonable to have a preliminary assignment contingent upon what the charter says? Or should we just wait and see what the charter is and then say?

Well, quite honestly, if we're supposed by state law, we're the ones that are supposed to prepare the plan. I don't understand why we are not involved in actually laying out these duties and responsibilities. That's coming from somebody else.

So I think that's my understanding, which I haven't seen, which that makes me uncomfortable. But my understanding is the steering committee is just an input. So I envision many inputs, including there ought to be some projects for the high school in here, some pop-ups at Food Line, with the very basic information. And if somebody in this county hasn't heard that we're modifying the comprehensive plan, I don't want them to say that they didn't know.

But if this body is supposed to be preparing the comprehensive plan, shouldn't we be the ones putting together the roles and responsibilities of the steering group and the planning commission, not somebody else?

Is it true, Kelly, that the steering committee will report to the planning commission? So that was a change. That was a change.

Reporting to... Reporting to... Drafting a draft are two different things. Right. And I would say this, and seconding what Mr. Nicely is sort of alluding to, is that in the absence of anybody else preparing the charter... I suggest that we just have maybe one or two special meetings, just us, to draft the charter, or at least the outline of the charter. Or review their draft charter and approve it. That's assuming we figure out who's actually writing it.

I think you got a great idea. Something we'll add to the next agenda is that we'll discuss the comprehensive plan, which we've delayed it because of the contractor for many times. In my mind, we were delaying it because the contractor is going to come in and help us directly. But we can vote to have additional meetings. There's no requirement that we only have one meeting a month.

We could have as many as we want.

We could have two meetings a month, one focusing on the comprehensive plan versus four in the year to just wait and see what the contractor says. And people that wanted to participate more that way, I think all the planning commissioners should get a chance to participate.

So do we need to make a motion to have another specific planning commission meeting in two weeks to specifically focus on the comprehensive plan strategy?

I think let's have our next regularly scheduled meeting. We'll add to the agenda the comprehensive plan.

I just didn't know if we needed to expedite it and not wait an entire month to come back to that. If we were to have something faster,

Let's see if they can neaten up the charter. Let's look at the charter and see and we'll go forward from there. But my understanding, my concern was yours at first. My understanding is that the steering committee will report to us and it's an extension and it's just another input. It's just another input. So The contractor is going to be holding public meetings on our behalf. They'll bring back the results of that. I anticipate that each one of us will have some meetings in different circles of engineering your locality, and you'll bring that input. There will be many sources of input. This is just another input is my understanding.

One of the things I would hope that we'd see fairly soon a schedule coming out of the contractor saying these are the public meetings we're holding to solicit input from the community as a whole and and then you know how many how often are they meeting primarily with the steering committee and you know those kind of things now my experience in the past the two or three that I've sat in on admittedly from a little bit of a distance but is that The contract is going to do the bulk of the up and down lifting on this. Taking comments from a group meeting like this, my understanding in the past, those meetings have generated pretty good size attendance. The steering committee needs to be paying attention to what they're saying. They need input from the Board of Supervisors so that they get the direction that the leadership of the county is trying to move the county toward. And then they provided something into this group and we sort of modified it as we see the county going. I mean, we're an advisory group to the Board of Supervisors. Sometimes they take our advice, sometimes they ignore it. But yet we at least ought to lay something out to them that we as a group sort of have a consensus and belief that's the way we should go.

So if you read further into that code that I cited, it also says that the supervisors have to adopt a comprehensive plan, not ours. So they can take our plan, they can change it completely, or they can make their own.

It's never been lost on me that we have very little power. All we have is the power of suggestion to the five folks sitting on the board. They'll do whatever they want to do. And honestly, in the past, I've seen them really trying to have the county's best interest at heart. But even look at the five we have now, look at the five we had previous administration, and there were a lot of different opinions on the way the county should move. And we've seen that out of residents that come before us as well. I mean, sit at one of the big subdivision meetings when they're presented in here and listen to the folks that are involved in the actual project versus the citizens that are gonna have to live with it. You get a lot of stuff, but I'd much rather we try to sort it out and put together a reasonable comprehensive plan, comprehensive being the big word, than leaving it to some folks who are gonna sit on a steering committee pushing their agenda and then go back home and forget it.

I agree. So do I have a motion regarding the Planning Commission to appoint two members? We already passed a motion. Oh, I'm sorry. We're going to... Wait for the charter. Yeah. Okay.

So it'd be helpful. I know. Okay. So a lot of you guys were at the board meeting when the consultants came to talk through the process, how this was going to work and what the plan was. Do you want to look over that again? I could, you know, pull it from the board agenda. And then also I could send all of you the proposal document that has it all laid out.

Unless there was another meeting that I missed, other than the one that was held at the sheriff's office, that presentation didn't provide much in the way of details. I didn't see a schedule. I didn't see a number of meetings. I didn't see a discussion of how the steering committee and the planning commission and the board of supervisors are all going to interact, their roles and responsibilities. It's really in the details of how this is going to be executed that is why you're hearing this concern. It's not in the broad statement that was in the RFP because They couldn't have had the details because we're still debating about whether or not a steering committee is needed or they were Until the Board of Supervisors decided so that wasn't in the RFP that there shall be So we're just trying to understand the interactions get some schedules some roles responsibilities as miss McGinnis said, you know get to get the deliverables who's preparing what and

So to my understanding, this is what they said had worked for the other counties that they had contracted with. And so I'm just curious as to what exactly the format was for how those counties handled it and what worked and what didn't work with them. And maybe using that as a jumping off point for where we go here.

Kellyanne at New Kent is this how they did their new Kent yes the one that the last update we did we had a 15 member steering committee yeah and so what did that steering committee do they sat around and helped get out the word there were a bunch of open houses where we the consultants came with maps and boards Oh geez, they met probably six or eight times and the chair of the planning commission was on the steering committee and he brought back reports every month to the planning commission. They went through specific chapters that they wanted included in the comp plan, what they didn't want included. I mean, there's specific things you have to put in there, but there's also a lot of optional things. And it was a diverse group of people from around the community, besides just planners. But they were well attended by other members of the public, other planning commissioners, board members. So in my experience, yeah, we had a comp plan steering committee as the first step and then reports to planning commission and the board throughout the process.

If it's going to be public meetings and we're going to take public comment, if all the planning commissioners go to the meeting, then we can still somewhat participate.

It depends on, you know, what are they voting on and if they're voting on what to include and not to include, do we Maybe we don't all get a say. There's only two representatives from the Planning Commission. These are just the details. I'd almost really like for the contractor to come to us next month.

That's what I was going to suggest.

Give us an execution plan of how they plan to have this done.

Can we do that? Let's put that on the agenda if we can.

I'll talk to them. Sure.

The other thing I'd want to know from the contractor is... what counties they've done this for. Because when I looked at their resume, I think they did Albemarle and James City, which are both significantly larger populations than we are. So to have this whole big apparatus and this whole big system might not be something that would work as well for a county with 30,000 people as it would for a county with 200,000 people or 100,000 people. So maybe that's something to take into account also.

Yeah, I agree. I think that's part of what we need to see about how they plan to execute. Because if you've looked at them, I've looked at the comprehensive plan from New Kent and the one from Albemarle. The one from New Kent, you can get through pretty quickly. The one from Albemarle, it's several hundred pages. So the same contractor executed completely differently in those two counties. They have a good to know how do they plan to execute for King George?

I would say we are much more demographically similar to New Kent than we are out.

Yes.

Just with the population base and the proximity to the larger cities. We are just we are much more aligned with New Kent.

Yeah, we are we are not Albemarle.

Okay.

Well, yeah, let me talk to them and see if that would work with their schedule. Otherwise, I mean, it sounds like y'all are open to having a special meeting if they could come a different time.

We're open to that, yeah.

Okay. I'll see what I can find out. And it's all public documents, too. I can send you the contract. I mean, all the deliverables and stuff, that's all in there.

I'd like to see that. I didn't see that before.

Yeah.

Email a link to that. That would be awesome.

Okay.

Or if it's all just up on the county website somewhere, just send us the link. You don't have to clog us with the actual documents.

So the Planning Commission's next regular meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, October 13, 2026 at 6.30 p.m. Do I have a motion to adjourn?

I make one comment. Go ahead. Mr. Knisley, I need to get this on the record, but I did go back and look at the previous Gibson Solar comments.

documents you're correct and I was wrong let it be seen heard and written you can buy me a beer later do we have a motion to adjourn second all in favor aye if Trudy's there I don't know reflect six eyes Goodnight, guys. Thanks for coming out.