Town Council - Special Meeting

Are we legal, Madam Clerk? There's John. All right. You're here. You're here. You're here.

I was looking for my name. I didn't see it. You're here. John, move on down here because Alex is... Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, move on down. Holy cow. Look at that. Moved up in the world.

We should have put a little baby pacifier by her neck. All right. Let me call to order the special council meeting for this Tuesday, June the 9th. Before we begin, we just want to congratulate Council Member Alex Crosby and her husband Davis for the birth of their healthy little baby boy. Eight pounds, 12 ounces. Yes, sirree. She gets a medal. So she has a good reason not to be here today. That was Friday, by the way. All right. Item number two is public comment. If there's anyone here for public comment, please come forward. Give your name and address. Two and a half minutes. I don't see anyone. No one for public comment. All right. Item three, executive session for personnel, consideration of municipal judge reappointments. And B is legal and contractual legal advice related to Deerline at all. Motion to go into executive session for items listed. Second. All right, before we vote, council may take action on any item, including any subsection of any section listed on an executive session agenda or discussed in executive session during a properly noticed meeting. All in favor of the motion to go into executive session for the reasons stated, please say aye. Aye. All right, motion carries. And let's remember, after we do our executive session business, we have seven teams to acknowledge when we get back. So we've got to get back and get it done. All right, we are in executive session. We have reconvened from executive session. No votes were cast, no action was taken. Do we have some motions resulting from the information received in executive session?

Yes, sir. First of all, I move to reappoint the Chief Municipal Judge Thomas Hesse and Municipal Court Judges Kelly Young and Jack Sinclair.

Second. All right. Motion second. Any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Motion carries. Next, please.

Second motion, Mayor, is to permit staff to proceed with negotiations as discussed in executive session.

Second.

I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you very much. Now we have recognition of state champions and our health recreation and events chair, Mr. Rambo will do the honors.

All right. Good evening, everyone. All right, for our first championship team, we have NPFC U13 girls black. And I'll call up Councilmember Brownstein. I believe your daughter played for these coaches and or coach. Come on up and you could do the honors on this one.

There you are.

Thank you very much. The MPFC girls team won the 2026 President's Cup State Championship in the South Carolina Youth Soccer Association. This team is brand new team that came together in the fall of 2025 and have worked extremely hard to achieve this incredible accomplishment. Competing against some of the bigger soccer clubs in the state, the girls went undefeated through the state cup and only allowed one goal. The team has advanced to the U.S. Youth Soccer Southeast President's Cup in Auburndale, Florida next week. And the reason that I asked to present this to this championship team is that Coach Zach Jordan was the soccer coach for my daughter starting at age four, I think. until about a year ago. And this is a huge accomplishment for the Mount Pleasant FC, which is our competitive soccer program. I think that this program is growing tremendously as evidenced by our state champion girls here. So I do want to recognize them as well as Coach Zach Jordan and Coach Morgan Atwell. So ladies and gentlemen, these are your state champions.

There you go.

Thanks ladies. Good job.

Up next we will bring in the Oceanside girls soccer team. After a brief transition period.

It's amazing. Hi, ladies.

Great job. Again. Great job, ladies. All right. The Oceanside girls soccer team continued its historic dominance by capturing its sixth consecutive state championship with a 4-0 victory over St. Joseph's in the title match. The Landsharks were nearly untouchable throughout the postseason, outscoring their playoff opponents by a remarkable 35-0 margin.

I would say that's actually untouchable, not nearly.

Their combination of elite defense and explosive offense cemented another championship season and further established the program as one of the state's premier dynasties. The Oceanside Girls Soccer are coached by the one and only Mr. Mark Meyer.

Congratulations!

Thank you.

Congratulations.

She and I worked together at church in the three-year-old room. So fun. Mm-hmm. Sunday school.

Mm-hmm. Fun times.

Up next we have the Oceanside Boys Lacrosse Team.

Hi guys.

All right.

Perfect. The Oceanside Boys Lacrosse team claimed its second straight state title championship with a convincing 18-7 win over AC Flora. Despite falling behind 2-0 early in the championship game, the Landsharks quickly responded and took control, showcasing their offensive firepower and composure that defined their season. Their dominant finish highlighted the strength of one of the state's top programs. The Oceanside Boys Lacrosse team is coached by Mr. Tom Harris.

Awesome. Congratulations, guys. Good job, guys. All right.

Up next, we have Oceanside Boys Tennis.

We have a member of Oceanside Boys Tennis.

Yay, Will. Woo! Woo!

All right. Boys tennis, and particularly Will Britton, continued its remarkable run by winning its sixth consecutive state championship. The Landsharks battled through a challenging playoff bracket that included a hard-fought victory over rival Phillip Simmons before finishing the season with a dominant 6-0 win in the state championship match. Senior Luke Skillman added to the program's success by capturing individual state championship honors, further highlighting the team's outstanding season. Those are our boys tennis team is coached by Mr. Sean Harris. Up next, we have Lucy Beckham, boys lacrosse. All the medals. I love it. Just coming in clinging. Clinging.

Clinging. Well decorated. Love it.

All right, fellas.

The Lucy Beckham High School boys lacrosse team submitted its status as the top program in the state with a convincing 11-1 victory in the 5A Division II state title game over Fort Mill. The win gave the Bengals five straight state titles and secured a perfect record against South Carolina teams in 2026. Wow. MJ scored five goals to lead Lucy Beckham on offense. In their three playoff games, the Bengals outscored their opponents 50-9. The Bengals finished the season with a 16-3 record.

I don't know. Some of them chose not to wear them. They're not on the same page, but some of them wear rings, too. Amazing.

They're the most coordinated so far, so well done.

Oh, wow. You said the fourth one is going to be something else. That's awesome. No, I didn't. Congratulations, guys.

I got participants.

Congrats. Great job, guys. All right.

Up next, we have Wando Boy's Track and Field.

Nice one. We're going. This is one. He should be here. Yeah, he's not. That's funny. I should get him a little paddle. Hey, hey.

All right, the Wando boys track and field team won the 5A Division I state championship this spring. Over the course of the season, the team won first place at the Cane Bay Classic, third place at the Beach Run, and second place at the All-American Track Classic. To end their season, they finished first in the region championships, first in the lower state district qualifier, and eventually were crowned state champions. The team also had multiple athletes receive all state awards in various events. Please give a round of applause to the Wando boys, track and field.

All right, and I'm out of breath.

Thank you, Mayor. I yield the floor.

That's it. That's a lot. You did really well. All right.

Now that we have recognized the state champions, and it seems like somebody was saying we get more and more every year here in Mount Pleasant, we have completed our agenda for the special council meeting. We will adjourn, and then we will reconvene at 6 p.m. for the monthly meeting. The special meeting is adjourned.

That was awesome.

All right. Everybody's ready. Let me call to order the town council meeting from Mount Pleasant for this Tuesday, June the 9th. Before we go too far, I want to mention to everybody that council member Alex Crosby gave birth to an eight pound, 12 ounce little baby boy last Friday. So she has asked for and we reluctantly gave her permission to miss tonight's meeting. But we'd love to see our Mount Pleasant family and Town Council family grow. So if you would please rise, we will have a prayer from Chaplain Rob Dewey and the Pledge of Allegiance by Mayor Pro Tem Chapman.

We'll just come to you now and we thank you for this time that you've set aside. We can come and talk and listen. Amen. Amen.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. Item number three, may I have a motion to approve the agenda? Move to approve. Second. Any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. All right. The agenda is approved. Item four, public hearings, awards, and presentations. There are none this evening. Item five, approval of the minutes. Do I have a motion to approve? Move for approval. Second. Thank you very much. Any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Item six, public comment. If you have a public comment, please come forward when the town administrator calls your name. We need your name and address, and you have two and a half minutes, please.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. First speaker, Reverend Rob Dewey.

Thank you, Mr. DeMauro, mayor and town council. I rise today to speak to the luckiness and blessed that we are to have our police department that we have. Recently, I, about a month ago, contacted the assistant police chief and said, Within two days, he had turned it over to a sergeant who called me at home, 8 o'clock one night, which was perfect to address my concern. And the concern is what we've seen in the old village and what the police are addressing at Mothru Middle School. But in the section of town where I live, we have been seeing a lot of 10-year-old, 12-year-old children drive golf carts. running us off the road. I recently got the middle finger from about four e-bikers. Gives me something to preach about. I appreciate that. But our neighborhood has grown tired of it. It was a conversation at a wedding reception I was at on a Saturday night. And then on Monday night, the sergeant calls me and made me feel rest assured that they're looking at it. So I appreciate that. Kudos to our police department. Thank you. Thank you. George Freeman.

Good evening. George Freeman, 2347 Highway 17 North, president of the CAGE organization. I'm here this evening to talk about something you should have received in an email. There was a memorandum of agreement signed by the town of Mount Pleasant and county council back in 2006. And one of the main thing I wanted to bring to your attention was that one statement in there where it said that there would be no changes to our neighborhood or no new roads in our neighborhood. And if anybody want to give me a discussion about it, I'd be available to speak about it. Also in that executive summary in there, there was also one of the things that came out of there was that the town and the county would work with our community to help us build a community center. That was signed back in 2006. Nothing has happened since then. So I'm here to bring that to your attention. I've already brought it to the attention of county council. So now I'm here bringing it to your attention. The third, well, I guess the second thing I'm here about is that you should have also received a map along with that memorandum of agreement. I brought it up at the Transportation Committee meeting, and I'm bringing it up here today. You're in the process of extending Hungry Neck Park West, Sweetgrass Parkway, Billy Spells Boulevard to where the three of them will be connected to where you will be able to drive all the way from four miles of Highway 17 to Portier Bluff. You have a survey out looking for proposals on transportation. The CAGE organization, what we're recommending is that you continue Billy Spears Boulevard on to, in the direction of Morgan Creek. You can either connect it to Morgan Creek, turn it, and connect it to Highway 17. Either way, you'll have a parallel road that can take peak traffic all the way to Park West, providing ability for residents north of Mount Pleasant to be able to get to their community without getting on Highway 17, especially the area between Long Point Road and Portier Bluff. If anybody has any questions about what I'm saying, I'm available to talk with anyone about these subjects. Thank you.

Adam Newman.

Hey, good afternoon. Adam Newman, 935 Center Street, Mount Pleasant, South Carolina. Does this say anything else? I think you're good.

Okay, sorry, first time here.

I am following up on an email I sent last week. Matt Sims and Chris Luper and their supervisor in the planning and zoning have urged me to come contact you guys via email, contact some attorneys, but they said it was probably good for me to come here first to show that I've acted in good faith within the timeline. I've relied on a licensed professional. I took the timely action to comply with old ordinances and I suffered harm solely due to professional negligence. And I'm respectfully asking for a pathway of consideration and remedy. So what am I talking about? Talking about a request for consideration regarding an ADU setback ordinance and missed appeal to date due to the architect negligence. So in January of this year, I was interviewing, I live at 935 Center Street, and I wanted to build an ADU. And I want to point this out, that my garage and ADU that I'm going to build, it does not impede anyone's access. obstruct anyone's vision. It doesn't obstruct their view. It doesn't obstruct anything. All four of my neighbors, all of our houses are pushed to the front of our property and it's all towards the back end and none of them have an issue with it. None of them take issue. And I can provide any testament to that. So Interviewing architects, I found one named Jeremy Kreska, Kreska Designs, very persistent about me having to hire him. He lives in the old village, he knows the old village, knows everybody upstairs, knows everybody around, he's gonna get it done. I hire him, even though I was interviewing three other ones. Paid him, signed a contract. He had a month to get the garage and ADU submitted. He did not do it. And he did not tell me until about two and a half weeks after that February deadline was missed. At which time I went upstairs. I met Matt and his boss. I forget her name. And Chris eventually. They were helping me out. They said, you and Jeremy need to apply to this March contract. uh special ordinance meeting or whatever jeremy got an email thread with them jeremy got the whole thing set up and applied he told me not to show up to the meeting he went to the meeting he did not go to bat for me he literally just stood up said his name i had friends that were at the meeting and told me he just basically did little to nothing and then he was supposed he got so i got denied at that special meeting in march And he was supposed to fall on his sword and tell everybody that he made a mistake. I have documentation. He's actually refunding my money. And he's refunding the money to my neighbors, too, that he took the work on, too. And then he was supposed to file an appeal. And I just found out last week he never even filed the appeal.

So I'm sorry. Please finish up.

Yeah, sorry. I'm sorry. I'm nervous. So long story short, missed the February deadline, missed that March thing, completely fell on, fell down, and then never even filed the appeal. And I just found all this out a couple of weeks ago. So I'm asking for help here. And I've got everything emailed to you.

Thank you. Adam Ferrara. Adam. Adam is not here. Okay. Mark Fields.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. Mark Fields. I reside at 301 Branch Creek Trail, Somerville. I'd like to speak as DRB representative related to new business items one and two. I'd like to inform you that DRB entered into a contract, purchased the the subject property in the latter half of 2024. And to that end, we've been diligently pursuing investigation of the property, and it culminated in materials that we submitted to the Planning Commission. It resulted in their denial. We filed on May the 18th some supplemental materials that we'd hope would get through the Planning Committee. And the handout that the clerk gave you, those are the supplemental materials that were filed on May the 18th. I'd like to bring your attention to the last sheet of that. That's a matrix that shows what is proposed or could be proposed under the AD1 zone and then what we're proposing under the PD3 zone. We ask for the town council's consideration of that on its merits. And furthermore, we don't expect a final decision tonight, but we want to make an appeal to the council if they find, based on the merits, enough substantive changes to that that specifically address the concerns raised by the planning commission. that decision reached tonight to remand the material back to the Planning Commission so we can start the process all over again. And with that, I ask for your indulgence and consideration. Thank you very much.

Chris Lathbury.

Good evening, Mayor, members of Council. My name is Chris Lathbury, 5363 Creekview Lane, Hollywood, South Carolina. and I'm the owner of the 11-acre parcel before you tonight. I became involved with this property in 2019 through a lending relationship and ultimately acquired it after the borrower defaulted. Since then, I've invested a substantial amount of time, resources, and efforts into understanding the property and working towards a responsible long-term use. I was raised in Charleston and spent most of my life here. Today, I live in Hollywood, as I said before. And over the years, I've watched our region experience thoughtful growth and poorly managed growth. With that, I've come to appreciate Mount Pleasant's careful approach to growth management. This property has been subject to planning and development discussion for many years. Multiple concepts have been evaluated. and refined over time, and the proposal before you today reflects years of study, investment, and collaboration. I appreciate the thoughtful review of the project has received from town staff, the planning commission, DRB homes, and several community members. While not everyone may agree on every aspect of the proposal, we have remained committed to engaging constructively. listen to feedback and making adjustments where appropriate throughout the process. Tonight, I'm not asking for approval of the project. I'm simply asking for your support allowing the review process to continue. I believe the project reflects the type of measured responsible growth that can be consistent with Mount Pleasant's long-term views. I respectfully ask for your support in sending the matter back to the Planning Commission for further consideration. Thank you.

Norab Karzanowski.

Good evening, Mayor and members of the Council. Norbert Czernowski, 807 Apco Way, Mount Pleasant. I am here today in support of the project as it was submitted on May 18th with the new supplemental information. And I'm also in favor of remanding it back to planning for reconsideration. There's been some substantial changes, very good changes. My three points that I support this, Project on Highway 17 is one I drive by the site on the almost weekly basis on my Costco trips And I think the project integrates well with that with that area. I think the architecture is great I think DRB has a great product And of course Mount Pleasant design review board gets the final say on on that Additionally without maximizing the density you can see on your hand out there. There's a lot of green space I think it looks really good Number two, there will be now eight affordable units with the same style and quality to aid the need for the workforce housing in the area. It's Denise Marie Fuego that submitted a support letter. She's with the Housing for All. I had the opportunity to sit in person at her meeting with DRB, and I can tell you she's fired up, she's excited to see this thing through. I think it's a great component to aid affordable units for this project. And number three, The primary entrance is off Highway 17 across from the Aldi grocery store, and that spot will get a new traffic light for better traffic flow and safety at no cost to the town of Mount Pleasant. DRB will also provide eight stub outs for the sewer to the neighboring four neighbors on the, I think on the left-hand side there, which is a nice benefit to those homeowners. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your consideration.

Chip Wyatt.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor. Good evening, council members. My name is Chip Wyatt, project manager and designer with Barrier Island Engineering. Thank you for your time tonight. I'm just going to take a few brief moments to touch on a couple of things that were just said. As Norb said, an integral part of this project is the deceleration lane and signalized intersection to serve the development. The TIA has been performed, a very detailed TIA that factors in all of the components of this development. has been prepared, submitted, and approved by SEDOT in the town of Mount Pleasant to date. And again, this will provide purely a signalized intersection with a dedicated desal lane to provide signal access into this development. Also want to touch very briefly on the gravity sewer. We understood that there's some existing homes in the area that can really benefit from being on the public sewer system rather than private septic. So what we did as we were thinking through the utilities and the vertical design of those utilities throughout this site, we provided Gravity made access to those residents and we have demonstrated the ability to provide sewer stub outs to serve those properties without grinder pumps. So the homeowners there could very easily and inexpensively, relatively speaking, connect to that system. The last thing I wanted to address that I know is a big concern in regard to the buildings. Within this development is the building heights. They're the commercial portion that's up fronting 17, which will be the visible component of the PD. Those buildings are approximately 27 feet, so single story. And then subsequently the townhomes towards the back. We've done some work and tried to figure out a way that we can get the height down on those. And I think what we previously brought you, I believe, was 50 feet. And we are now proposing the townhomes at 40 feet. These were just a couple of the items that we've been working through in detail as part of these supplementary materials. And I thank you for letting me present those to you tonight.

Bennett Rogers.

good evening mr. mayor and city council members Bennett Rogers a little bit 362 Meadow Breeze Lane Charleston South Carolina I am coming up in support as a member of DRB group on behalf of the same project that those previous to me have spoken about to not you know go over the same topics and to discuss the same numbers that have been mentioned before us Our approach to the site, we try to take an approach that positively affects the public. What we are providing here is much more open space and what prescriptive path zoning would call for on this, 29% open space versus 10% open space, as well as in terms of maximizing what prescriptive path residential units could be to this site, where much less than such of being 85 units versus 124 units. we have accounted for you know neighboring parcels with the gravity sewer to come through and so we feel like we have taken you know not much of a uh you know development velocity approach to the site but a lesser impact than what is prescribed through the ap2 zoning currently as well as something that intertwines well with the community it is buffered from uh highway 17 a 75 foot buffer on the commercial side and much much further from highway 17 on the residential side with the pass through drove bryant court right away as well as providing helpful interconnectivity in that area and adding a traffic light, as everyone has mentioned before me. So thank you for your time.

J. Paul Smith.

Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Jay Paul Smith. I live at 24 Catfiddle Street in downtown Charleston. As was briefly touched on earlier, we are including eight affordable housing units, and this is in collaboration with Denise Fugo and the Housing Corral of Mount Pleasant. These affordable housing units will be architecturally similar to the market rate housing that is proposed. And the units that are fronting All-American Boulevard, they're going to have rear load garages with parking slabs that will fit two cars. So each townhome unit would be able to store four cars for parking, keeping that off of the streets. These will be an integral garage that will be tucked under the homes and The affordable units will have specifications for two bedrooms with options for a third bedroom. That was on the request of Denise Fugo and according to specifications of what's successful for affordable housing. And the overall project will be proposing an enhancement to the landscape treatment with a combination of both active and passive amenity features for the residents and interplay with the retail community to the front.

Mr. Mayor, it's all I have, sir. Okay.

Is there anyone who wishes to speak who did not have the opportunity to sign it? All right, seeing none, we will move from item number six on the agenda to item number seven, consent agenda items. There are no consent agenda items. Item number eight is planning. Hello, Ms. Reed. We are in A1.

Good evening, Mayor and Council. So I did separate these out because it comes to you separately, one with a recommendation for approval, the later one with a recommendation for denial. So this first proposal before you is to annex a .648 proposal. Move to approve.

Second. Motion and second. Any discussion? Motion is to approve. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries.

First reading, ordinance number 26028. Item two.

Move to deny. We have a motion to deny. Do we have a second? And a second. Is there any discussion? All in favor of the motion to deny, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. All right. That moves us to item three. And let me point out, as was pointed out by legal counsel yesterday, items three and four have to do with the annexation. The first is the annexation. The second is the zoning. But they are the same parcel of property. I do think, Mr. Pagmarini, you do want separate votes on each of those, right?

Yes, sir.

A motion to do something on both would not be entertained.

It is preferred to have them as separate. Yeah.

Okay. Just wanted to clear that up. Thank you, Ms. Reid.

Yeah, of course. So this is for a 0.37 acre parcel at 883 Long Point Road. It is a vacant parcel. You can see it there. The request is to annex into the town and the zoning designated zoning would be CC Community Conservation, which is appropriate. based on the future land use. And so that's the request.

Move to approve. All right. Motion to approve. Second. And a second. Is there any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. All right. Motion carries.

First reading, ordinance number 26030. Excuse me.

Item four is the zoning of community conservation for that. Yes, sir. Do we have a motion, please? Move to approve. Move to approve. All right, the motion is to approve the application for community conservation. We have a second. Any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Motion carries.

First reading, ordinance number 26031.

We are now on item five, please.

Yeah, this is five and six. It's very similar to what you just voted on. It's an annexation and zoning 0.73 acre parcel on Old Georgetown Road.

Second. All right. Any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Motion carries.

First reading ordinance number 26032.

And the request is to zone at CC. That's what it's recommended for.

Second. All right. Any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Motion carries.

Thank you.

We are now an old business.

Old business. This is final reading to adopt the 10-mile overlay zoning.

Move to defer. Second. Hang on a second. I had two people talking. What? I moved to defer. To defer. Sorry. Okay.

Was the second to defer? A second for quick discussion. Okay.

We have a motion and a second. We are in discussion to defer. Y'all have the floor if you'd like.

I second just for Mr. Ramos.

I think there were some colleagues that felt they needed some more time and research with this.

So I support taking one more month to look at it. And just for clarification, this would this would come back next month. Correct. And there's nothing stopping it from being on the planning committee agenda. Should you all want it for further discussion? Should you defer? Yes, sir.

We moved to approve it. The planning committee. This is mirroring what the county has done. So we're simply doing what we've said we're going to do all along. There's no diversion from that. We're doing exactly what we've hoped to do all along. And so I think it gives one of the elements that's important with settlement communities to have not only the historic overlay, but to have the ordinance, which we've been doing, as well as the character analysis. When we have all three of those items, we'll be able to move forward with protections that many of the other areas have in town, whether they're brickyard or whether they're the old village or whether they're any of the other planned unit developments. So I think it's a critical element in doing this. We've been working closely with the county on this, and the county is...

fully in support and so i'm in support of this anything other than that would be a deviation from what we've been saying we want to do all along yes sir yes sir i have a question for miss reed when does the moratorium on subdivisions and historic districts expire

I believe it expires in July. And actually, Ms. Hyatt asked that that be placed on the committee agenda for July. And that was a resolution. So I believe it would go from committee to council and it would only need the one.

The one reading in July. To extend it. To extend it. Okay. I agree with Mr. Tinkey. I think we've been talking about this for a long time. It clearly mirrors what the county is doing and what the residents there want for their neighborhood. And so I see no reason to delay putting those protections into place. And so I'm going to be voting against the deferral and hopefully for the ordinance to finally finalize this. If things need to be changed down the road, I'm certainly open to doing that. But I see no reason to delay this another month.

Any other discussion? Yes, sir.

Let me just say, I'm going to vote against the current motion exactly because what Mr. Brownstein said. We've spent a lot of time talking about doing this. We delayed getting help for the residents in this area. We went on six months... deferral on anything like this, which is plenty of time to look at it. I think planning committee did a great job Monday a week ago, so I'm going to vote against the current motion.

All right. Any other discussion? All right. All in favor of the motion to defer, please say aye. All opposed? No.

It wasn't my idea to defer.

I'd like to move to approve.

Second. To approve. All right. We have a motion and a second to approve. I don't think there's going to be any discussion. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. All right. Any opposed? None. Motion carries.

Final reading, ordinance number 26026.

Committee action items, planning committee. This is from their report. Ms. Reid, if you'd just like to go into it a little bit.

Yes, sir. So there should be a report attached to your agenda. Just briefly, this has been kind of going back and forth between the planning committee and the planning commission over the last few months. The first thought was to look at all PI properties that are recommended for PI but not zoned PI. Then we kind of honed in on the schools and the churches. And so it went back to the commission in May. The commission said, They could see that there may need to be some cleanup, but they wanted to perhaps look at it when we do the next comp plan, revisit the PI recommendations, and then rezone them, all properties, in accordance with the future land use, if that's still appropriate. At committee, the committee said they wanted to move forward to town council to go ahead and look at rezoning church and school properties that are zoned R1 and R2, but they're recommended in the comp plan for PI. And so that's the recommendation to you. I can, in your report, I did include a list of all those properties. Most of the school properties are, these are the only ones that are not already zoned PI, not in the PD, those sorts of things. And they are all owned by CCSD, except for the two by Trident. And then we had a list of all of the churches. And so I did include those and just kind of teased out all of the things that probably should be considered. If we do follow through with this rezoning, we may need to consider a few things. for example in the and this is just one example to consider is that there may need to be a text amendment that goes along with this in the PI district for example there's no allowance for residential uses so that would mean if a church has a parsonage for their pastor they wouldn't be allowed to have that so we may just need to tweak some things if if council wants to go through with this but the but the request from committee is to rezone all church and school properties to public institutional in accordance with their future land use.

Yes, sir, Mr. Brownstein.

Yes, I have some questions. Has the town rezoned all of its properties to PI?

No, the town has, I have a list here. The town owned properties, there's actually 17 properties that are owned by the town that are recommended for PI. And here's the rest of the list, but they're recommended for PI, but not zoned PI.

Okay, so the town hasn't done its own properties. Are churches and schools allowed in residential zoning?

So a school is a conditional use, and the conditions are design. It has to meet certain design standards. A church is a special exception through the Board of Zoning Appeals. So they're both permitted, one through a special exception, one through a conditional use.

So schools and churches are legally able to operate under the residential zoning that they already have?

They are legally allowed to operate, yes, sir.

Has the town ever rezoned a group of properties on its own undertaking rather than an applicant coming forward and asking for us to rezone?

Well, Mr. Pagliarini is saying golf courses, and I know that Ms. Farrell, when she was in this position, I think they rezoned some economic development properties.

Okay, and what happened during that process when we rezoned the economic development properties?

That was before my time. Okay. Good evening. Good evening.

It was many years ago, but that was an action by council. They had established economic development on the comprehensive plan and then moved forward with the rezoning. It was a number of properties, probably a couple of dozen. It was a public hearing process. Some were ultimately rezoned. Some were not. People came, had the opportunity through public hearing process to speak regarding that matter.

Okay. So, some were, some weren't, and the public was highly engaged. I assume in some situations negatively engaged.

The property owners.

Yeah, the property owners. Okay. Okay. Well, thank you. I mean, my reason for bringing this up is it just seems like a, a pretty big solution in terms in search of a problem. I think that it would be irresponsible of us to move forward with this without at least talking to these folks. I think I'm not the most religious person in the world, but I don't really want to be fighting with 35 different churches in our town and trying to explain why we're rezoning their properties without them initiating that process. I think You know, in our history, schools and churches tend to operate in residential neighborhoods. And I'm concerned if we switch them to institutional that we may actually end up with worse or less compatible uses in those places. I mean, you look at the list of things that are able to be done. community service facility, medical offices, lay down yards, hospital and medical campus. And so I'm just very leery of us going forward with this without maybe doing a little more legwork on our end. So those are just my thoughts. Thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you, Daniel. I appreciate that. I think just a little context for my theory on this. I understand that it's rare that a church or school property would be used for something other than a church or school property kind of thing. I've heard that it's rare, but it's happened twice just since I've been on council once for the church and once for the school. And so I do have some concern that default zoning for these uses would be residential when we have recommended them through the great work we've done on our future land use map for PI. I also want to preserve some areas of town for PI. I think there's real community benefit that we get from having, obviously, public institutional uses. And if we allow some of these bigger parcels in town that are owned by schools and churches, to be default residential, if that happens, then we're not preserving some of that for a public institutional use. So that's the theory behind why I put this forward. And obviously understanding the 163 properties is kind of too much to bite off at once. So that was the reasoning behind my motion to bring this to council and see what my fellow council members thought. So thank you, Daniel, for voicing your questions and concerns as well. Appreciate that.

Also, I think it's important to note that there's PI and PI1, PI2, and so the ones that you mentioned which seem egregious would not be included in the list. Second, I think it's important, if you'll go back to the list of the churches and the schools, especially the churches there. You'll see many of these have been here for well over 100 years. And in the case of the schools, when they wanted to apply to get some improvements made, we had to move them to public institutional, if I'm correct, with James B. Edwards.

We did. They did need to rezone James B. Edwards because it was in what's called our village scale pedestrian. And so by going to P.I., they were able to have more flexibility being in that design overlay. And so that one was kind of special. Yes.

So my point on this, if you look at both the schools and the churches, especially the churches and those other areas to under P.I., You recognize there's recreational uses, ball fields, open space, green space. These are the types of things that are fundamental to a community, things that are the anchors of a community. The good news is this is on the agenda today for discussion, not for final action. So if we need to do some follow-up at the Planning Commission or Planning Committee, we can do that. But I think it's important that there's a layer of review if anything is going to be changed. And if it automatically goes to R1, R2, they may not have to come for review. So I think it's important that we do this, and I think we protect these for all the future uses. Go back to the, if you don't mind, the churches. As you can see, some of these are almost 200 years, the churches. And so I think it's really important for us to have this conversation and not all of a sudden wake up and realize something's become a residential use. Thank you.

Yeah. Go ahead. You have the floor.

What we had spoken about was PI1. That does not allow lay down yards, right?

It does. In association with other uses, it does.

I was thinking I didn't allow that. So, okay. Okay.

um so go ahead you i'll i'll go last no you you've got to fly in association with what other uses uh government and i thought yeah like or like like waterworks or like dominion right here yes i'm sorry it's not just like i can buy it and rent it out as a lay down yard to anybody

Right. No, but it does allow the open storage and lay down yard with a government facility.

Correct. Okay. And then also just to point out, so this was five or six years ago, but we did rezone Moultrie Middle School without the school district's consent from AB to PI.

Moultrie is AB. Moultrie Middle School?

Or we zoned it to AB.

Oh, did we?

Okay.

I know we rezoned it. Maybe it was one way or the other.

Yeah.

Yeah. All right. So are you all taking this back to planning then at this point?

Yeah. I mean, whatever you got. I wanted to see what full council thought about it. I think it's, you know, obviously the committee had some discussion and we were interested in what y'all's response would be to our theory here.

I move to send this item to the planning commission for like official action to then come back through the process.

Does it need to go to the committee? I'm sorry, can you restate the motion?

I don't see why it would need to go to the committee. So I would like to send it to Planning Commission so it gets their review. Then it would go back to Planning Committee and to Readings of Council.

Not for a public hearing for discussion and recommendation.

Correct.

Yes, sir.

But I think, yeah, that's already been done, right? They went to Planning Commission. They recommended doing it the next time the comprehensive plan is updated. Right. So, does it need a public hearing?

Yes. Well, it depends how council. The council has to decide or committee at least decide what path to take so that we can advertise a public hearing.

What is the quickest path?

To send it to have a public hearing at Planning Commission.

I sent it to have a public hearing at Planning Commission as stated by the attorney. Okay.

I have a question about that. Does that mean you're moving forward and you're asking planning commission to? Okay.

Yep. In discussion. Does that also, is that, but none of this goes into action until the comp plan? Is that the, or you're saying?

No, it would go to Planning Commission for a public hearing, but it still would have to go back to Planning Committee and get two full readings of Council as an ordinance. Correct, sir.

If I'm not mistaken, I think the question is to rezone SPI churches and schools as presented. Is that the, I just want to clarify the request.

You have to rezone them as a comprehensive list. Let's get clarity on the motion first, please. A public hearing at Planning Commission? Yes, sir. Okay.

To rezone all of the properties listed.

Correct. All properties currently used as a church or a school. That have the underlying zoning of R1 or R2.

Correct.

And no other properties designated for PI, just those two categories? Okay.

Is that the motion? Okay. And they have to be zoned R1 and R2. Do we have a second to that motion? We have a second. Okay. Now we're in discussion. I want to weigh in. Everybody else has had a chance. I see a picture of my friend Dick Jones up there, who I knew very well. I loved one of his sayings. I feel strongly both ways. You say that all the time. Yes. We went through the most. We actually took an extra year on the last comp plan, right? Remember, we were supposed to do it one year. We gave another year. And we had that, what did we call it, the committee of residents, 40-something residents met for a year. So they did the hard work of deciding what the future land use for those ought to be. Without that zoning there in the housing market that we're in, it really doesn't matter because if it's R1, we could end up having none of these places for public institutions, for public stuff. So there is a fine line, but there are some that, you know, we can't pull the rug out from under their feet. So I don't think that every one of these, in my opinion, is going to be PI1 or PI2 or something like that. Some of them you don't want to have a lay down yard or I saw sports complex. You know, you got a nice quiet church or school and next thing you know, you got a sports complex that's going to... You know, drive into town at night and see the lights and all the stuff going on at Cheryl Woods Flowers Field. So it's going to take work, but I agree with the motion and I support the motion, but I don't think every single one of those 163 properties is necessarily going to get rezoned. So that's why we need to have the hearings and the input. Yes, sir.

my thought is there's following up on my thought there and yours, there's an awful lot of properties here. So I think really, even before we go back to the, planning commission, or if we go back to the planning commission, we should do some due diligence. In other words, with each one of those, how long have they been here? When was an inception? What has been its use? The churches and the schools. And I think we're going to find that they may separate themselves out as to what the use is and where they're located in their areas. But I think it's important to know how long they've been there and also the detriment if they We're not there in one of these communities. So just from an age standpoint, I think it's important to know what their uses have been and how long that use has been. And so we may see some areas that have changed, but just a little bit more research so that we don't just send it back to the planning commission to do the same thing they've done all along without some more due diligence that shows that we really studied each of these properties.

Yes, sir.

Yes, thank you, sir. So if this gets sent back to the planning commission, you all are going to go around town and put out 40 some yellow signs in front of churches and schools advertising that there's a rezoning application pending in front of the planning commission.

Yeah, we'll be required to send certified letters to every property owner. We'll have to post every property that touches a public street, and then it'll be posted in the newspaper.

Okay, so I'm just envisioning myself as the leader of a church, which obviously, knowing me, is never going to happen. I'm going to walk into my church and either receive this letter saying that the town is rezoning the property that my church is legally operating on and has legally operated for many years, Or I'm a parishioner and I'm going to my church and all of a sudden there's a yellow sign out in front of it announcing that there's a rezoning application. I just think this is... creating a huge mess, and people are going to want to understand more about the context of what's being considered, why it's being considered, what the implications to my church are, and I think it would be a mistake to move forward as quickly as this board seems to want to.

Yes, sir? Isn't the comp plan where this belongs? What are we, four years then away from going through the comp plan again on this? I mean, isn't this kind of time and energy typically where that goes? I guess it's a vote of counsel at any point.

To be technical, I mean, the future use plan and the zoning are not actually the same thing. And we went through this for two years. I don't know how many hours of public meetings, public hearings and all that for the comp plan. We have done this. But what we haven't done is do the zoning to match the future use plan. And this really only, I didn't get to see all of those, but how many of these 163 actually have R1 or R2? Is that on the list? It may not be every single one because we know some have AB, right? But it is just the ones that are R1 and R2.

Right. And it was most of these here listed. Okay.

Is there a way to do this and get input and talk about unintended consequences and things without it actually being something that requires notice and the yellow signs? Is there a way to have this discussion so that we can get input and see what the magnitude of this issue is across the town?

Yes, sir. As was suggested prior, it could, for example, go to planning commission without a public hearing for that sort of analysis. Again, some of which has already happened with the planning commission, but that would be one way. Of course, continued discussion at council as well as committee.

Could we amend the motion so that we don't have to have 163 yellow signs around town on every school and church? Because what we really want to know is what the consequences will be and if this is even doable without it being them getting a letter. I mean, I can't imagine the church boards and the school boards that are going to be calling and saying, what in the world is going on?

Yeah. Mayor, I think it probably could legitimately go back to Planning Commission because they didn't talk about necessarily just schools and churches, which is what the committee then talked about. And so I do think without a public hearing, they could do some more analysis around those two if that's what we want.

I'm sorry. They did. So the recommendation was to look at churches and schools. And that's what the committee sent back to the commission. And so the commission has considered that.

Sorry. That's okay.

And did the commission take a vote or a recommendation or was just it was for discussion and they they just they talked about the different options. They talked about just rezoning everything to meet the comp plan. They talked about what problem are we trying to solve? And then they so they talked about a lot of options, but they landed on. If a council were to rezone all properties to match the comp plan, that typically happens right after the comp plan's adopted. So you would typically have your comp plan. You go through that two-year process. You spend all that time. And then that very next step is, okay, we're going to rezone every property, not just PI. But if I'm recommended for something else, you would rezone every property to match the comp plan. And some municipalities do that. But that is what... typically would happen when you have these rezonings to match it comes right after the comp plan and then you rezone everything to match because it has been such a long process and and it's been a public you know it the comp plan forum they did meet for two or three years and so that's typically how it works um but i forget what the question was well But council can take that action at any time, obviously.

We passed the comp plan in 2020. It was originally going to be 2019. We passed it unanimously in 2020. We're in 2026. So that work was done six years ago. And it won't be done again for four more years. Yeah.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I'm sorry. It won't be done for four more years. So, you know, talk about doing the work. That work was done. I mean, everybody up here was not here. We were here when that work was done. We're just following through on that work that was done. I would just like to see the discussion being had and people coming together. and giving input when they see it on the agenda without them getting that letter saying, we are going to rezone your property or there's a hearing to rezone your property. you know, just discuss the concept and see the magnitude of the issue that we're on. We might be opening up some places that we absolutely don't want sports complexes and lay down yards and medical campuses and things like that because of the traffic they drive. But we don't know until we get down to this level. Why we didn't do it earlier, I thought we were doing this when we did the whole zoning thing, but we didn't. So... I would like to ask to amend the motion just to take the public hearing part out. Let's have the conversation, have people come speak to the commission or the committee. But if it's a public hearing, there's going to be 163 zoning signs up around town.

I have a question. Yes. We could have those discussions in committee. If we're not going to have a public hearing, then it wouldn't have to go to commission.

Of course, yeah.

So we could amend it, just send it back to committee to have more of those discussions, if you feel better about it that way.

Just thinking about it having been on the committee and commission agenda for probably three or four meetings now, and we haven't had anybody here, the word's not out. So I'm afraid if we just put it on an agenda, nobody's going to come. So perhaps we start reaching out to some folks, not a certified letter, but we start reaching out to some of these and let them know this is going to be on an agenda and it's under consideration. Because if we don't do anything more than what we've already done, I'm afraid there's not going to be anybody here. But if we don't want to send a certified letter yet and actually take the action to rezone them, then perhaps planning staff can start reaching out to them and just let them know that it's going to be on an agenda. If that would be appropriate, we could do that.

I would think we would. I agree. I don't think anybody's coming unless you do send a certificate. And even then, I highly doubt most of these, the diocese of Charleston, I highly doubt most of these people come. Maybe they do. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. But I think you need to have the action. It doesn't mean we're doing it yet. It just means there's going to be a public hearing. So then you get the certified letters, you get the yellow, then you get the feedback. I mean, I feel like we're like, we're saying, oh, we want more feedback. I just don't think you're going to get the feedback until you like have an action to take.

I think what we're trying to look at is we've got these long-standing uses. They go over 120 years. We simply want to have the ability, if somebody wants to take a church or a piece of a church and sell it, we want the town council, since it is part of the comprehensive plan, it has had such due diligence on it, We want that to not go to staff and get approved. We want to make sure that we can see that. I mean, it's important to know what these uses are going to be. a church out of an area where you took a school out of an area, you took a playing field out of an area, we would at least want to know. And what's happened doesn't mean we deny it, but at least we have a discussion about it. And so I think that's important. We've gone the other way, too. We've had public institutional recently, and we've changed the use of it. because it came to a council and we discussed it. And so it's just a matter of having that discussion and whatever that mechanism is, is what I would be in favor of. Yeah.

Can you read us the motion again, please? Can I ask one procedural question? For the sense of like expediency, could the public hearing be at the first reading of council and not at the planning commission? That's what people have. Or does the public hearing need to be at the planning commission?

We have to do it there. All right.

I'm keeping my motion the same. Okay.

And so, Mayor, to answer, I think as I understand the motion, it is to refer the matter to the Towns Planning Commission for a public hearing to consider rezoning as PI1 properties as presented this evening, churches, schools that are currently R1 and R2 and recommended for PI.

As the motion maker? Yes. Okay.

And it'll just be at the commission for a recommendation.

Yes, sir. It's a public hearing. Public hearing. It's essentially the first legal step.

Right.

And then, of course, it would follow the standard procedure going to committee and then to council for consideration as an ordinance.

Were you raising your hand? Did you get a second? Yeah. Oh, yeah, he did. I agree with Jake. I don't think he's ready. I'm not saying nobody's going to take it seriously, but getting that notification is going to say this is real. Very quickly.

Any other? All right. All in favor of the motion, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. All right. We're going to have to do a roll call.

Mr. Rambo?

Yes.

Mr. Rambo votes yes. Mr. Tinky?

No.

Mr. Tinky votes no. Ms. Whitaker? Yes. Ms. Whitaker votes yes. Mr. Brownstein?

No.

Mr. Brownstein votes no. Mr. Chapman? No. Mr. Chapman votes no. Ms. Crosby is absent. Ms. Hyatt? Yes. Ms. Hyatt votes yes. Mr. Iacofano?

Yes.

Mr. Iacofano votes yes. Mayor Haney?

Yes.

Mayor Haney votes yes.

All right. 5-3. The motion carries. All right. That concludes item 9. Item 10, there is no council new business. There is no council old business. Item 11, as we adjourn, this council meeting stands adjourned.