Board of Adjustment - Regular Meeting

supposed to have five we appreciate that John we on record make sure everyone has their mics on and [Music] make hello yes ma'am how dod you turn on the mic you're all okay trying to turn off my phone you missed my speech about turning your mic on and talking into the mic okay I'll do that for you you're welcome good night evening gentlemen hi Tim hey Tim what's a good work Tim here okay the board of adjustment meeting for the city of Overland Missouri to be held February 12th 2025 will now be called to order I will now conduct roll call for the 815th public hearing of the board of adjustment Kipper here Jones here faren here SE here okano here Joseph Bon legal counsel thank you and Community Development approval of the minutes as the board reviewed the minutes from the meeting held on Wednesday December 11 2024 and if so does anyone have questions or changes to be made to the minutes no sir okay I will now entertain a motion

to approve the minutes of the December 11th 202 for Board of adjustment hearing I need a motion make a motion to approve okay second I'll second it okay pull a vote for approval of minutes faren yes o Connells are yes Kipper yes Jones yes seal yes all parties present wishing to partake in any discussion of the applications for variance or appeals submitted to the board will you please step forward to be sworn in once you have been sworn in you may take your seatone anyone who wants to speak okay that's fine okay you need yes you need to take the oath Raise Your Right hands do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you will give at this hearing will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you period of validity and required votes as per section 400. N35 period of validity unless as otherwise specified the board of adjust by the board of adjustment and their approval of an application no variance granted by the board of adjustments shall be valid for a period longer than 180 days from the date upon which the variance is granted unless within such period one a business permit is obtained and the construction or alteration of the structure has commenced and pursued diligently toward completion or two a certificate of occupancy is obtained and a use or occupancy commenced the board of adjustment May Grant extensions not

exceeding 18 180 days each upon written application without notice or hearing as per section 40094 approvals required vote a concurring vote of four members of the board shall be necessary to reverse any order requirement decision or determination of any such administrative official or to decide in favor of the applicant on any matter upon which it is required to pass under the article or to affect any variation in the chapter agenda item 2238 Sims with the applicant for the record please step to the podium and state your name and address and does the applicant for the record have any items he or she would like to be entered as exhibits of evidence so you're the property owner are oh co-owners okay fantastic okay and is there anything else you would like to add to the record that you haven't submitted already that would be great thank you no problem helping us with the problem sure UMAS is is the is the microphone on Katie can you talk into the microphone so people can hear you it goes It goes

back 15 years or 15 years ago when we purchased this house it was for closure house and we decide it was like under 20 ,000 something like this as I remember and we decided to restore the house it was in a real bad condition and we was trying trying to you know see the estimates and compare the prices and everything at that time The Neighbor Next Door to 2336 you know start to come by and my daughtering talk to the microphone by herself um trying to get to to work there on her on her house and she was saying no no I have the only people who had a referral I don't know you please don't come but he was coming constantly knocking the door I think he he kind of like her because she was beautiful she's still beautiful but younger that now you know kind of heading after her and after she rejected his Services he became very angry and that's where the history started with our neighbors went to that point that we decide to do survey it's costly it's close to $700 I have the document it's like 660 something dollars for survey we did survey mhm with survey for a while there was like a you know the the how to say that sticks there but then after a while they took the sticks

out and start to put their o their own you know um wooden sticks in and which is did not match the you know the you know measurements the measurements MH so then um close to this time you know they damage our siding by heating it real hard I have the documents I have the estimate I have the picture of our siding so that's where we decide to do this fence and with this fence I took the the permit from from Overland and I gave this to to the person person who gave us estimate for the fans so obviously he he did not read it you know he just did what he decid to do it was the choice between four and five feet in order to I guess to charge us more or something maybe I wanted 5 ft from the very beginning because I thought 5 ft will kind of restrict them from going over to our property because it was the history of going on a property playing with the dog right there on our property when Sabina was not home you know the poop was all over the property from the dog and then when I confronted them they say oh it's not from our dog which it was from the dog you know I can separate the poops sorry from the birds and from the dogs anyway so we suspect that in the past also we suspect but we cannot have a proof for

for that that even the um she has the separate beside the central air conditioning she put the split level yes and that the um what is the black thing there going from a it was pull out and water was leaking so and and originally the the aiding guy guy when the the air conditioning this air conditioning unit was installed he put the uh siding part over so to make it nice you know deciding the job is very nice you know and well we because the damage was done everything was redone and cost us money again you know what I mean it was constantly something so the people was coming to cut the grass uh Neighbor Next Door he was putting the subject across between us like a ladder between prohibited them to cut the grass so several people quitted over that over this harassment you know the last guy actually became very friendly with them and the reason is I suspect because these people are doing drugs you know they um drinking a lot you know and he probably became had some interest you know to being friend with them being friends with them and that's where when uh we confronted them he him he quited you know so well it's a long history I would like to keep this fence

because when we call the fencing company and asked them that you know it needs to be redone and everything they said oh we're going to charge you for that and this he said $600 to charge you know for that and then this kind of Slash the price in have which I feel that it's unfair to us you know because we pay for 5 ft it's it's look nice it's really in invisible from the from the street you know it's Blended and nice we keep house very nice you know the siding is really good you know you can tell that everybody like our sizing who and they asking for the company who did the sizing for us so we're not doing anything you know that would make Overland look bad if you will see it's one of the best houses on the street you know that's that's all make sure you state your name my name is Saina so uh we're the Coors of the house but I pay for everything there I I am her daughter uh but uh my name is on my mom's house and her name is on my my house so I am the person that lives there and have been dealing for the last 15 years with stalking harassment trespassing the police has been called on them just in the last three months I called the police at least twice uh just because that is really what was the turning point of getting the fence um I put up with a lot from these neighbors and I decided to put down this fence just for physical barrier to protect me at least on one side so there is no more just coming and going whenever they wish um and just messing with my property I thought that would add some protection to my property um so there was been a mistake made with the

fence by the contractor um um we wanted the 4ot fence but somehow in the papers it ended up being five he he ended up installing a 5 foot fence versus what the permit permitted which was 4T so it was just one of those things which is definitely not my fault and they're Char they are going to charge me to redo it to bring it down to four feet I would still have to pay they're not taking really responsibility for it although the air was on their side so um I decided to put down the fence due to the problems ongoing problems with uh Billy and Walter uh is just it doesn't stop it's been 15 years of this in the past when I first moved in there the first two years the police has been called on them about five or six times and they always tell me to get trespassing uh to get I'm sorry restraining order I've always been told to get restraining order I I I since then have installed cameras at my house um following the police advice to just report report report get stra both of them which so far I have not gotten but it might lead to that just depending on how everything goes um so it's been a very it would take me forever to describe everything they put me through they just will not leave me alone I really just work and I come home and sleep you don't even really see me outside and so they're constantly messing with me I do think that the reason for this they seem okay now they're very quiet and respectful I have to give it to them uh it's usually not like this um so this is the reason for why we're all here okay thanks talk when she Billy see me she called me

flick me and screaming go back to Russia all the time and I'm so tired from this I really I don't leave there I'm just visiting my daughter you know yeah that's what's going for okay thank you you guys have something want to say you state your name your full name and the microphone my name is Walter Lee Robison I'm co-owner of 2236 Sims with Billy an Robison my wife uh for the record since she wanted toing during the history the history started when she moved in she thank you for your time tonight thank you for WEA um the history started she moved in she walked over while we were sitting outside she wanted to know some history on her home her wife told her she said she wanted her yard to look like ours asked me if I would cut her grass I agreed then she wanted it cut every other week then she wanted me to lower the price and I said okay hold stop just a second you guys had your chance to speak now it's their turn to their turn to chance please continue then I just said ma'am I think you'd be better off finding your own then it led to her mother accusing my wife and I of throwing alcohol beverages in her cans which we did not then we hired a mentally child young man named Scotty who lived at Lackland and Florida the Overland Police knew him of to cut our grass for extra money he accidentally left his lawnmower and grass cutter wheat eater behind her house she called

Overland she didn't tell Overland the day before she left a brown paper bag handwritten note in our mailbox saying do not talk to our grass cutters do not talk to these people do not so when the police came came over and asked me whose equipment we explained it was Scotty they knew it was Scotty's they said we it was a mistake I was cutting the woman's across the streets grass they understood they told her they read this note and they said did you put that in their mailbox I said yes she did and so she went they went over there two hours later they had her handcuffed she left in a police car three months later she came back I'm sorry to put this laundry out there but since they did in defense of my wife and now I've Haven I haven't had any problems now the finger came from her grass cutter Andy who liked us when she told them not to talk to us he's the one that said if you were not in Russia I can talk to who I want a retired man does homes in Clayton and everywhere who the mother knows I get anyway to is that person here tonight no but I'm just speaking and I was accused of saying these things to her which I did not now I have pictures which Kelly and Katie from code enforcement asked my wife to do if she feels unguarded and she accuses our dog who is passed of going in the yard which was never off of a five- foot leash or a five foot um uh leash in in the ground in the front could not touch your property here is the other side of her property completely unguarded from anything that

wants to walk the planet here is a picture totally of her other side completely unguarded now here is our flag getting caught up on her fence that she has on her property we're not disputing the property line so here is a 5 foot fence we sit on our porch her house extends 5 foot past arm which puts us on our front porch and we look at a five foot Cyclone Fence but our whoever we have over whoever we have over looking at then they open a five foot date which puts 10 foot of Cyclone Fence and fence comes I worked for Sher whose cousin was a mayor here a fence comes fence comes in 4 foot five anyway so I just don't understand if five- foot fences were allowed you get a six foot privacy fence which I understand people want their I don't I don't have anything against cameras I'm not a I don't have it or or fenses but when you're in the backyard and they got their cars back there you think you're looking at a yard where they bring cars in this big industrial commercial fence and then there's this fence in your front yard and the gate goes to their house and it's padlocked to their house and this camera on the porch is pointing right at our porch then in her window her camera is pointing at our porch then in her window she's got a camera pointing them our bedroom and the police said ma'am you can hang up anything anything you want in your window my wife isn't going to do that and these are just pictures these are just pictures that

Katie and Kelly told us to bring and if you'd like to look at them I you know I haven't had you know the n on this survey that she's complaining about the price of I'm sorry about prices but when you own a property you pay it we paid 750 for a survey we've got them papers the neor neighbor's driveway and wall he says it's his that he paid for us on our property but we don't care we're not here for that our fence goes he's we got he's got two yards of our property behind us we don't care about that we're not disputing any of this we're just saying if you're going to let us make us look and entertain and have people while we're on a front porch looking at at least put the fence back where our house stops so it's not in our front yard I got it rocked in in the front as you can see and bordered off and thought we kind of made a historical Gentry house right off the trail not looking so bad and kept it looking historical people go by and look at it our neighbors would be here but the weather and I you know well the right right will be right wrong will be wrong I'm I'm trying you know when you have I work Tuesday through Friday parttime after five years of retirement I went back to work no problem

I okay I think we're getting I think we're getting off the rails here a little bit guys Trainor I mean we right I I I get it you know but that's this is this is kind of yeah very much so and you know it I'm sure the is I'm sure the fences that she has installed is up to the property line up to the front of her front of her house you know that's that's by Cod building line yeah that's that's by code there's nothing there's nothing you can do about that and if it and if it's only five feet in front of you what does ster fence I miss that I know who I know who Mr shraer is I know who he is right okay okay okay thank you but C can you hold on for a moment let's go through the exhibits please yes thank you okay anybody else want to speak on that side okay you both have spoke let's let's move this thing forward reading of the exhibits by title only A1 through A9 exhibit A1 agenda exhibit A2 application pz2

24-34 exhibit A3 notice of public hearing exhibit a 4 copy of ordinance exhibit A5 staff report exhibit A6 GIS mapping exhibit A7 fence permit application pf24 0047 exhibit A8 fence permit and Survey exhibit A9 failed inspection report are there any questions regarding these exhibits presented I have questions on the exhibits can I ask questions about them or or is that later no let's let's accept these into evidence and then we can move forward through the process and there's a point where the board will get an opportunity to speak also okay all right let me write that down okay if no if no questions then exhibits A1 through A9 and received into evidence as presented hearing proess progression order Community Development present the city's case Katie thank you chairman as the applicants stated they did apply for a fence permit application along with that fence permit application they submitted a drawing as well as a survey indicating where the fence would be placed that fence permit application was reviewed by our plan reviewer and approved by the plan reviewer as well as myself permit was issued to install the 4 foot chain link fence the first inspection was actually a peer inspection where we go out and we check for the depth of the the fence holes that passed inspection final inspection is once the fence has been installed upon final inspection the inspection was failed because it exceeded the 4 foot limit which is per code section 4360 point d.2 that specifies a chain link fence cannot be higher than four

foot fence 4 feet um at this stage they did apply for the variance as they've ex explained due to the contractor installing fence that's higher than 4 foot but as far as the city's concerned that is the ordinance we failed the inspection thank you yes sir additional comments from City attorney Joe um no I think Katie kind of summed it up pretty well um you know this is an issue where uh a fence that's limited to four feet was install at five feet um and Katie you can correct me if I'm wrong but I understand is if it was of a different material if it was like a wooden fence or something like that it would be permitted to be six feet tall that is because that's correct Joe so essentially this is an issue where we have something in our code that says you know it's limited to four feet if it's if it's chain link but it would be allowed to be a six foot wood EV so that's kind of centrally the issue okay I got a question for you Joe is there any is there any ongoing discussions in the city about changing the fence ordinances to go to six feet across the board so there has been some kind of talk uh at least downstairs about trying to kind of Target this provision um and see kind of what we want to do with it because it is as we see now you know there are a few issues that come up here and there um you don't yet have a package or or any sort of direction from the council yet but this is certainly something that we've at least flagged down stairs as something that you know we should probably address sooner rather than later because it is it is slightly

abnormal um other communities don't you know six foot at six foot that's kind of I would say more the norm but you know we're not comparing other communities it's just the code that we have right exactly but I was just I was just curious I had I had heard through back channels that maybe that might be up for discussion so I just wanted to get that in the record thank you Al also chairman I would like to uh let the board be aware I did receive communication today for someone that spoke in favor of approving their variance or their five foot chain link funds I just wanted to convey that to a resident a resident okay yes okay all right thank you Katie appreciate that okay applicant is there anything you would like to add to present to your case in hardship you need to be at the microphone please and speak into the microphone well that that's no well that's fine you can give that to Katie after the meeting because that has no bearing on this meeting here thank you I appreciate it okay comments and questions from the board I do you chairman I have one all right Tim U maybe it's for the epin or whoever Kath Katie when you purchase a fence there's an invoice there's an order did you order a 4ot fence and pay for a 4 foot fence up at the mic please

yeah you did you have to speak into the microphone or it won't pick you up well you purchased five feet so that was your intentions to get five feet well we'll just go with the issue hit hand I I hear you but I'm asking about the five- foot fence you purchased a 5ft fence intended to put a 5ft fence up and it it was an ordinance for 4 foot okay yeah sounds like a communication problem okay anybody else than chairman Dan uh on this uh invoice Imperial fence ink they did put 4 foot on the height the drawing is nothing like the actual drawing of the fence they show 93t going straight out to the front yard and it's clearly states that you put half the money down and then paid half when the fence was done so if you if you put half the money down and Overland didn't approve it why would you pay the other half of the money micophone yeah at the microphone right

what was your do you remember what number you paid them when I was sudden done you paid them the whole $1,954 okay so I mean this if if if if the fence has to be changed you have a case with Imperial that they have to change it they they agreed to a 4 foot fence they took the money for half based on their drawing and then they gave you a 5 foot fence and you paid them off but that's not what they AG this yeah well I could I could see how they would ask you for their money because they're a business but they're they're really liable here not you if if it's against the code and we don't we don't I'm not saying we will or won't allow the 5 foot fence I'm saying this this burden of the the difference should go on the fencing company to correct the problem that they signed the contract with you and agreed to well I would I would contact a lawyer to contact him okay since we have a lawyer on board right here yeah Joe um what do you think about that situation does he have U recourse to go back after the uh the contractor or I I think Joe can I say something I think that that's not Place Joe's Place to answer that question Joe is the attorney for the city I just want to know if there was if she really had recourse am am I speaking at of turn Joe no I think that's right I mean the one thing I'm looking at is kind of rece or you know the customer copy of this document I don't know if there's a contract on top of this I mean you know if a mistake was

made that should be rectified certainly um I I just don't know aside from this one document you know what else was discussed or if there's a contract or anything like that that would influence any sort of recourse they would have um you know the fact of the matter is you know we're dealing with something that's been installed um that you know they clearly based on this document four feet and there's five feet there so and they're and they're asking for $300 to redo it you said they was six and then and as my neighbor okay chairman I got a question for Katie Katie when permits are issued don't usually the vendor I mean I guess it can be anybody but normally wouldn't it be

like a vendor that comes up and talks about that it can be a homeowner in terms of fencing be a homeowner or it could be a contct okay but I was wondering if this gentleman's been here no I don't believe that he was the actual applicant I mean I hear the problem but it's up to us to decide if it's going to go or sure no it it was not the contractor that applied for this fence permit however we do have contractors that do it sometimes okay any more comments from the audience no Mr chairman I would like to make another comment okay I'm sorry John go ahead yeah my my bad normally when you these houses are pretty close together um normally when you're going to do a fence like this you usually can discuss it with your your neighbor clearly uh this is uh Gone by the wayside you had a permit which was correct you had surveys which was correct uh the purpose of the fence uh was certainly not to uh enclose the yard uh it was for another purpose which uh is not a part of this board our only answer our only uh object here this evening is do we allow a 5- foot fence or enforce the rule of the forfoot fence I'd like to add in go ahead Mike on the basis if this impairs the neighbors you know view of the neighborhood or also you know I mean there's a great reason for it

I mean we heard that I mean sits on his porch now that seems the driveways all the way on the other side of the yard you know it's not like they Gates right up against their front porch right and it would it make a difference 4 foot or five fo it still be a chain link fence and would still bother you sh well you would if you plant bamboo you would keep the bamboo on your side of the property B but but bamboo I mean I let's let's keep it moving chairman

CH chairman let's get back on task okay all right all right I enough all right okay okay we're we're gonna stay topic this I've heard enough I've heard enough it's a shame that you guys can't get along I mean either way we rule you're going to be looking at a Cyclone Fence because Cyclone fences can go up to the front of the front of the house and you're going to be looking at a Cyclone Fence no matter what We Rule here so that's just the way it is okay okay that's that that okay let's get okay thank you okay I will now entertain a motion to approve a variance from section 400. 360. d.2 height of fence fences and screens constructed constructed of chain link shall not be constructed higher than 4T above the surrounding grade specifically to allow for an actual maximum height of 5T above surrounding grade as presented within the applicant's application due to the Practical difficulties as demonstrated by the applicant do I have a motion to

approve hearing no motion only once huh what are we approving the motion would be would be to approve the five- foot fence the variance for the five foot fence do I hear a motion to approve hearing no motion to approve it's denied so technically we have to have a motion to act having a motion and seconding the motion does not mean you yes so we have to have a motion to open up the consideration and then you can vote as does that make sense it it it it does make sense but okay that's fine I'll make that motion to approve okay Mike second I'll second it Dan okay pull the vote Kipper no Jones no seal no Fen no oconnell nope you're you're you're going to have to get a 4 foot fence you're going to have to work with the contractor and uh maybe talk to a lawyer about if they won't but for $300 I would I I just you're just going to have to eat it I guess you're just going to have to do what you got to do and make it for foot I mean there's some ways there's ways that he could do it fairly cheap I don't want to get into all that but the board has said your application has been denied so have a great day let's all try to get along a little nicer huh

okay sorry chairman I didn't know you had a make a motion like that all I've never seen that no sound okay I don't know why I got another so the reason that we have to make the motion that way and pull the vote is because it takes a certain amount of votes to approve it so if three four of you could approve it through oh I you're saying you have to bring it out right so you have to bring it to the table and make that a initial motion and then pull I I please I I uh respectfully disagree I think I think if it if the vote if there's nobody that approves the vote the motion then the motion dies period yeah so but anyway we'll do it we'll do it according to Joe Joe's the lawyer and we're gonna follow Joe's advice did you hear that Joe so do we need a motion to adjourn motion okay I second a motion all in favor all oppos we're adjourned thanks everybody thank you Joe thank you Katie Joe I'm gonna go ahead and disconnect all right thanks Katie thank you I appreciate your time