Planning and Zoning Board - public_hearing

we will start this meeting. It is September 16th. Town Clerk, if you could call the roll. Okay.

Mayor Allison Dennington. Here. Vice Mayor Terry Cronin. Here. Commissioner Anna Butler. Here. Commissioner Tim Reed. Here. Commissioner Sherry Corey. Here. Town Manager Amory Smith.

Here.

Town Attorney Ryan Knight. Here. Finance Manager Jennifer Kerr.

Here.

And Town Clerk Sid Jones is also present.

Okay. We'll stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance.

of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right. We will have a moment of silence. Okay, I'll read the civility pledge. After being acknowledged by the mayor, members of, no, sorry, the commission and the staff of the town of Melbourne Beach pledge to conduct all public discourse in a civil manner. The mayor and all members of the commission will treat one another with courtesy and respect and ask the public to do the same towards the commission, towards each other, and towards staff. We will be respectful of one another even when we disagree. We will direct all comments toward the issues and we will avoid personal attacks. Okay, so we are here for the public hearing on the millage rate and the budget. I will go to public comment for anything that's not on the agenda.

Tina Coppock, 505 Avenue B. A mayor's legacy. Nearly three years ago during an off-year election, a mere 666 voters in a town of over 2,500 registered voters elected a new mayor for the town of Melbourne Beach. This newly elected mayor, mayor I'm talking, could you please pay attention? Look up. This newly elected mayor had a beef against our town due to a code violation of her unpermitted shed at one of her properties. This person's campaign was filled with lies about her opponent and false promises about how she would get rid of short-term rentals when she knew full well that short-term rentals were beyond the control of this commission. Will that be the legacy of this mayor? Let me fill in the blanks. Since this mayor was elected, the average length of town commission meetings has gone from just over two hours to five hours. And because she threatened to bring a gun to the commission meetings, we must now endure searches and wandings at the door. In addition, this mayor and her LLC has filed seven lawsuits against our town, naming many of the town's employees and many private citizens in these lawsuits as well. I guess some people don't want to pay attention, even though this is pertaining to this person. To date, she has cost the town approximately $200,000 in legal fees. The commission should think about that number as you nitpick the town's budget, searching for nickels and dimes. Instead, you should demand that she pay the town back every penny, not just the $6,000 she owes for the latest settlement over that illegal shed. Why would you listen to a mayor drone on and on about pennies when she herself drug out a lawsuit and appeal for nearly five years and ultimately settled to pay $6,000 for something that would have only cost her $79 to permit? Her legacy and actions repeatedly berating and belittling town employees, creating a hostile and toxic work environment, was exposed by a survey completed by employees. Her failure to pass the gavel and recuse herself from discussions about her own LLC's lawsuits against the town created a clear conflict of interest. Her actions to undermine the SAFER grant and fund the fire department were both conniving and unethical. And while she has been the recipient of two censures, she has failed to change her behavior in the least. Throughout her term, she has openly criticized other commissioners, cutting them off mid-sentence, talking over them, and calling them names like idiot in letters to state officials. She's repeatedly infringed upon the First Amendment rights of audience members as she uses the dais to eject opponents from commission meetings simply because she disagrees with them. This is a clear violation of the Brown Act and the full commission is complicit in not stopping her behavior. So think long and hard about these facts, and remember, she is just one vote in five. But no matter what happens over the next two months, there is no doubt the legacy of this mayor will go down in history as the worst and most expensive mayor in the history of Melbourne Beach.

Thanks. Thanks.

GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COMMISSIONERS. I WANT TO BRIEFLY CORRECT SOMETHING THAT WAS STATED ABOUT ME AT THE SEPTEMBER 9TH TOWN COMMISSION BUDGET WORKSHOP DURING PUBLIC COMMENT. THE MAYOR STATED THAT I HAD VOTED ON THE TOWN'S SHORT-TERM RENTAL ORDINANCE AND SUGGESTED THAT I HAD FAILED TO DISCLOSE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST. That statement is factually incorrect. The town's original vacation rental ordinance was adopted in May of 2020. I was not elected to the commission until November of 2020, and therefore I could not have voted on that ordinance. There were no other changes made to the vacation rental ordinance until I was out of office. I attempted to respond when the mayor raised that allegation after my public comment time had expired. But I was not permitted to do so and was ordered by the mayor to be escorted from the meeting by a Melbourne Beach police officer. i'm making this statement tonight simply so that the public record is clear i did not vote on the 2020 vacation rental ordinance the town's vacation rental ordinance chapter 74 showing the adoption dates can be found on the town's website thank you commission it was the march 2023 owner occupied exemption referring to

Mayor, she should have two more minutes to come back to rebut. Go ahead.

It was the March 2023 owner-occupied exemption on short-term rentals. You were on the commission.

Excuse me, if you want to engage the president. I just wanted to correct the record as well. Then she should have the ability to come back up and speak.

Well, she doesn't seem like she wants to.

Do you want to come back up and speak?

No.

Thank you. Any other public comment? Come on up.

Mark Emerson, 512 Ocean Avenue. I'm sure you all know me. I'm just an old man. There's stuff I can do and there's stuff that I can't do. I can mow the lawn when it's not raining. I can scrub toilets and press sheets. I think something I really, really shouldn't do is try and go out and fight fires. Just, I'm physically incapable of doing that at this stage in life. But I heard about something last week that just really piqued my interest. There's a, do you, something about a fire department yakuza? Is there a volunteer fire department Yakuza that I could become? Are there any qualifications? Do I need to fill out an application? Or can I just self-appoint and just go out and engage in random acts of drive-by shouting? Anyone? Well, I think I shall become a member of the fire department Yakuza. Thank you.

Susan Stark, 307 Fifth Avenue. I did not prepare my three-minute comment. I always work to try to get it within three minutes. Sometimes that's difficult. I always appreciate the extra 30 seconds. Sometimes I need to deliver what I have to say. But tonight it's simple. I was an educator for 41 years. In my classroom, the 3Rs weren't reading, writing, arithmetic. They were reasonable, responsible and respectful and those are my expectations for this commission and the residents in this town and the town staff and I am looking forward to everybody working towards maintaining that level of those three R's reasonable responsible and respectful you all have pretty much volunteered your time $250 a month for your stipend is nothing compared to what you need to put up with but you came and you wanted to serve your town you all have different backgrounds and expertise and you bring something to the table I really hope that as we move forward as a town that we can come to more consensus that we can have more public discussion of that process to come to consensus by being reasonable, responsible, and respectful. Thank you.

Jen Pickett, 1501 Oak Street. As you well know, I'm a certified firefighter for the state of Florida, and also a volunteer at Melbourne Beach, Florida, here in the fire department. And for those of you who aren't aware, and all of you who are here are, that last week at the town budget meeting, a comment was made comparing our fire department to the Yakuza in Melbourne Beach. At first, I was a little more than irritated by the attempt to disrespect our organization, but more, I thought about it, they're not far off, except for the crime part. When you think about what makes an organization like the Yakuza, the mafia, so recognizable, it is things like loyalty, hierarchy, tradition, discipline, and reputation. Those are qualities our fire department understands very well. Just like the mafia, we have a chain of command. We respect rank, experience, and the people who have earned the responsibility to lead. We become close like family, and you don't become part of this family by putting your name on a roster or putting on a uniform. You become part of it by training together, sweating together, answering calls at 2 o'clock in the morning together, eating together, making mistakes together, standing next to one another on the worst day of another person's life. And just like family, when one struggles, we all struggle, and we're there to pick them up. And when one succeeds, we're very proud of them. We all have our traditions, our own language, our own way of doing things. We take pride in our apparatus, our station, our patch, the department whose name is written on the back of our uniforms. And... Just like the mafia, reputation matters. When the Melbourne Beach Fire Department shows up, people should know exactly what that means. It means firefighters who are trained, prepared, and professional. It means being aggressive when the situation demands it, compassionate when the situation requires it and absolutely committed to getting the job done it means taking care of our equipment taking care of our station taking care of this community and more importantly taking care of our own this department has existed since 1953 generations of firefighters built the name that is on our uniform today and now it belongs to us to protect it and make it stronger for the firefighters who come after us we may have different backgrounds personalities and opinions but when the tone drops none of that matters we all respond as one department So if somebody wants to compare us to an organization known for being fiercely loyal, extremely proud of its traditions, protective of its family, respectful of hierarchy, and bound together by a strong sense of identity, I suppose we can live with that comparison. So long live the Marybourne Beach Mafia, a family of fire, thank you.

Anyone else? Seeing none, we'll close public comment. Okay, I do have a couple walk-on items, and I'm not sure which ones go with this meeting. I can kind of tell, but some of them I can't. Looks like there is a public comment.

So that, just about that public comment, that individual actually asked that we don't read it. Okay. I just provided it in case you had not seen the email that he sent.

Oh, okay, okay, thank you, looks like. from mr. L you from the same gentleman yeah I know yeah I know it is former former tax assessor of the county okay so looks like there's an ordinance related to part of parking the parking program and there is also a executive assistant office manager position Are those with the regular meeting, or?

The office executive assistant is, per your request, at the last meeting, and we have.

Well, yeah, because we would have to have this in order to be able to fund that position.

Yeah, so you said you wanted to look at it at this meeting, so.

So is it going to be with the budget meeting?

Yes, yes, so that you had requested it. And then this is the final budget. The only thing that changed are the column names that you requested.

so those are the two walk-on items for this budget meeting okay okay so there are two numbers are the same okay there are two walk-on items um one is a the final budget and it's uh the same but it does have the column names that you request great that is wonderful uh actual audit okay all right cool Budget actual estimate. Awesome. Thank you. Appreciate that.

That makes a lot easier.

Okay. And then the second walk on item is a position that's been written up executive assistant office manager position. And this is great because this checks off the box in terms of that one issue about we had you have to have a job description for the funding. And so this will Mr. Knight, is this something I think this is something that the commission would have to actually pass But can we pass this as part of the budget meeting part? I don't think it affects the millage, but I think when we go past the budget, we need to have this.

Yeah, that's fine. You can do that. Okay.

All right. So this will be after the millage and before or with the vote for the budget. Okay. Those two items, I will put this one away. I take it we're going to discuss this at the regular.

That's correct.

Okay. and then these two public comments, these are not to be read then?

Correct.

Okay. And then the other item up here, I take it this is also going to be then at the regular meeting?

That will be at the regular meeting for the town managers.

Okay, so there's two walk-on items, and I already said what those are, so I will turn it over to you.

Okay. Okay. All right, good evening, mayor, vice mayor, commissioners. We are here to present the final budget. Last meeting, you had voted on the budget at 4.6 millage, and that is what we presented. We just made a few edits to the column names per the request of the mayor. So the numbers still represent the same. There was no significant movement in anything else. So we're here just tonight to discuss and pass the millage rate first. We have to do that first and then pass the budget. If you have any questions, please feel free to address them. I also have our finance director here with us and of course our town attorney.

Okay, I'm gonna just open it up until, unless somebody objects that we do it formally, but if y'all have any questions or wanna speak, just turn on your microphone.

Madam Mayor? Yep, go ahead. Could we start, I'd like to make a motion.

All right.

I'd like to move that we pass the 4.6 millage rate. I second.

Okay, we have a motion and a second. We'll go to public comment.

Any comment from commissioners?

I'm not going to read this public comment on the record, but there was a suggestion that somebody looked at the math and they thought that it actually required a unanimous vote potentially. Have you all looked at the numbers for sure to make sure?

I don't know what comment you're referring to.

Well, it's something that's on the desk up here.

unanimous vote for six millage no it's uh it's a four out of five votes it's two-thirds vote which would be four out of five since we have five if you passed it above four point eight what was it eight three then it would be then it would be all five yeah

i think that but you in order to get to that number like there's some calculations that are done and y'all are sure about those calculations yes it's done in the property appraisers website so we put the numbers in there and it tells us what we can do we don't yeah we don't like do it ourselves they their system does it so do you want to call the question um yeah no we have to go to we have to go to public comment we are can we

Bruce Pickett, 15010. I would highly encourage all y'all and request that all the commissioners go ahead and pass the 4.6. I think it sets our town up going into the future. And if you don't do that, that's going to set us back and handicap us going into the future, especially since there's some things that are unknown coming up. We don't know if the homestead increase will pass or not. We also don't know if the general bond will pass. And so I believe that we should set ourselves up for positivity going into the future especially not knowing what we don't know if all that comes to fruition and we're down a lot of money and the 4.6 will help us out if none of that comes to fruition and we're with the 4.6 it still helps us out going into the future so i would request and encourage and hope that you all would vote for the 4.6 thank you thank you next

Susan Stark, 307 Fifth Avenue. I agree with everything that Mr. Pickett said and then some. I've stood here many times telling you my support of the 4.6 millitrate, not the rollback rate. I've explained my reasons. I've shared that with over 30 of my neighbors and had discussions with them. I know that you have probably received feedback from people. Some of you have shared that almost Some of you have shared that the reaction has been positive for the 4.6, and you haven't heard many in favor of the rollback. I don't know for sure, but I think those are things I've heard here in comment. My concern is that I've heard so many things discussed this past year in all the meetings of the needs of the town, of the planning that needs to be done, the studies that need to be paid for, and That takes money and I don't I think it's reasonable and I think it's responsible to adopt the 4.6 military. I feel very strongly that the town manager and the finance director who were charged with the duty to bring you a budget had discussed that with all the stakeholders. I think you have heard from stakeholders, residents in the community. It's been a longer process than most towns, municipalities have, as Commissioner Butler told us the last time. And I just feel it's really important not to take a rollback rate, which next year will be even harder to even do a flat rate because of legislation that's changing and unknowns and things like that. So please, I hope that all the discussion has been said. I hope that all the questions have been answered. And I hope that tonight you can find consensus. The majority has already said they approve the budget and the millage rate at 4.6. That was tenanted and we had a super majority at the tenanted budget. I hope tonight at the final budget you have a super majority. Thank you.

Thank you. Next. Sorry, but I need to get the number of pages right. Is there any other public comment? Seeing none, I'm just trying to count these pages for this budget because it will go in the thing. The numbers are a little bit off, but do you know how many pages it is total? The walk-on item number two is three pages, so just for the record. Okay. yeah i was trying to i realized it was like oh it doesn't um i was trying to look most they start to go okay but yeah the page number's off so 45 47 then they go back on 47 okay so that would be 49 50 51. call the question um yes uh i'll all in favor say aye aye aye aye aye All opposed, nay.

So is that 401?

Okay, so that carries 401. Okay, and then now we will go to the budget. I will have a statement that when we do the minutes that I will add to the, but thank you for fixing the other two things. So I won't have to. All right, so would you like to present the budget? Oh, I'd like to, can we do a roll call on the vote? For the?

Yes. Okay. Mayor Allison Dennington. Nay. Vice Mayor Terry Cronin.

Yes.

Commissioner Anna Butler. Yes. Commissioner Tim Reed. Yay. Commissioner Sherry Corey.

Yes.

Thank you. Okay.

We are presenting to you a budget at 4.6 mills. It is keeping the millage rates flat from last year. However, it is actually a little bit less than last year because we had to pull from reserves. There were some changes to the columns that were made and audited, budgeted, actual estimated, and we also changed that in the revenue columns as well. You'll find that there is symmetry there. Nothing else has changed since the last meeting except the addition of those additional labels on the columns. The numbers in them did not change. And I don't know, Jenny, if there's anything else you'd like to add, but we just thank you very much for your patience through this process and would appreciate your vote on this budget.

Thank you. And thank you for making those changes on the columns. Yeah. Oh, and I counted it 60 pages. Oh, OK. So one of 60. So that would be walk on one, which is the budget with the columns. Did you want to discuss the present it and we could vote on this?

Well, I think you have to first vote on the budget or I don't.

I'm afraid that if we vote on the budget first before we vote on this.

OK, so you want to vote?

I would say this would be better to vote on this first because then because you're technically under art, we're not supposed to pass a budget with a position and funding for a position that we don't have a written one. So I would say we are. And Mr. Knight is kind of shaking his head.

Yeah. So you can vote on the job description right now.

OK. Yeah. So would someone

I'll make a motion to accept the job description as presented. I second.

I do have a question really quick. Do you have a minimum, like a salary range for this written on it? If not, I would just say... The salary range? Yeah, I would just say if somebody would consider a friendly amendment to put a salary range in there and then have whatever you guys have in the budget for that be within that range, because then we'll cross all the T's and it'll be, because I think you, we also have, you have to have salary range with these positions. We can do that. But we could do an amendment. So. Okay. Commissioner Corey, would you like to perhaps with the benefit of the finance, do a friendly amendment to add just the salary range so it's.

I would like to add the salary range to what is proposed in the budget.

I second the amended motion. Okay, could we get a number then for that?

I had a quick question. Go ahead. Do you need that number tonight or could we get that at the next meeting?

No, because if once we pass the budget, if we if we pass the it's in the budget, it's in the budget.

We've got it.

If we pass the budget without a written description, we're technically in violation. So this if we pass this first and we just pass it with the with the salary range, then we're we're better off. We've already got it. Yeah. Yeah. It's in the budget.

It's forty seven thousand six hundred thirty dollars and ninety six cents.

Okay, $47,630.96.

Okay, does somebody want to make that into a range rather than just the exact amount? We can do it as I guess 45 to 55,000. There you go. The range of 45 to 50,000. Okay. To 55,000. To 55. 55,000.

I mean, you can make it 50 if you want, but. To 55,000. But if that's what she's requesting, okay.

So there's a, okay, so we have a motion to approve the newly created written description, three pages, thank you, for the executive assistant office manager position with a salary range of 45 to 55,000. We have a motion and a second. Is there any public comment? Seeing none, any discussion, any questions? Nope, okay, all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. I'll oppose nay and I'm just just because I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but I thank you for Thank you for doing this though. I appreciate it because it Helps us. Okay, so now we can move to the budget Madam mayor, yep, I make a motion to approve the budget Second, okay. We have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion public comment? I'm gonna go to public comment first. I

Tina Coppock, 505 Avenue B. With all the important business going on tonight, I think it's incredulous that the mayor found it more important to count the pages while people were talking than to pay attention to what was being said. Thank you.

Next. Walk-on item. Got to get it in the records.

Jason Judge, 206 Flamingo Lane. I just want to thank you guys for all the hard work you did. I'm so proud of you guys for getting this done. I know it wasn't easy. And the ones that worked so hard to do this, we commend you. The town appreciates you. Thank you very much. For the ones that were obstructionists, we see you. This next year will be nice. I appreciate everything you guys have done. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Next. Seeing none, all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed, nay. Okay, that carries for one. Roll call vote, please.

Mayor Allison Dennington. Nay. Vice Mayor Terry Cronin.

Yay.

Commissioner Anna Butler.

Yay.

Commissioner Tim Reed. Yay. Commissioner Sherry Corey.

Yes.

Okay, all right, we will adjourn.

We will adjourn after I get a motion and then we will start our next meeting.

Motion to adjourn.

Second. Motion. All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed? OK, that's 5-0. We are adjourned. We will come back in just a minute and do our regular meeting.

We are recording.

All right. Oh, I got to get my other.

There it is. Thank you.

All right. We are back on the record. I'll call the meeting order. It is 638. We're here for our regular meeting, which is our second meeting. We just finished our special meeting. Could Mr. Jones, town clerk, could you please call the roll? Okay.

Mayor Allison Dennington here. here commissioner sherry corey here town manager amory smith here town attorney ryan knight here public works director tom davis here and town clerk sid jones is also present okay all right we'll stand and say the pledge of allegiance

We'll have a moment of silence. All right, I will read the civility pledge. The commission and the staff of the town of Elver Beach pledge to conduct all public discourse in a civil manner. The mayor and all members of the commission will treat one another with courtesy and respect and ask the public to do the same towards the commission, each other and towards staff. We will be respectful of one another even when we disagree. We will direct all comments toward the issues and avoid personal attacks. Okay, are there any meeting agenda additions, deletions, changes? Yes. There are two walk-ons. Okay, real quick. I've mentioned those earlier, but we did. So there are two walk-on items that are not in the packet. One of those is from Mr. Baggett of Haley Ward to the town manager. dated September 15th, and it is an eight-page document that will be added. And do you know where this is going to be discussed? Where should we add it?

Yes, it'll be with the town manager report.

Okay, so this eight-page document will be added to and discussed with the town manager report. And do you know what page that is? Okay, and then the second walk-on item is Ordinance 202602. I take it that this will be, Mr. Knight, you will be discussing this?

That's correct, yes.

Okay, so will that be during your report? Yes. no it's an agenda item oh it's okay oh and you just didn't have it in there yeah okay sorry i actually read that last week so um okay so the and these will both be added uh to the website um quickly yeah okay uh because we're not this ordinance it this is just for us to discuss and see the draft this is not actually like a first reading or anything correct so it can be a first reading the first reading does not have to be advertised oh it doesn't oh okay okay uh okay so this may or may not be but all right uh um and i don't see any other walk-ons that were on the table for tonight correct correct okay then i will now i will pass it to you um i would like to change uh 13 new business i'd like for c to become a okay d to become b as in boy

E TO BECOME C, F TO BECOME D, A TO BECOME E, AND B TO BECOME F. OKAY. THE REASONING IS BECAUSE D, THE FAMILY SHOULD BE ABLE TO NOT HAVE TO ENDURE ALL THE LONG DISCUSSIONS ON THE OTHER ITEMS. For the the plaque so that they have that decided and then the other items are Pretty pretty time Essential so I'd like to get them done first if the Commission will vote for it Yes, I'd also like to add one other thing I'd like to also add that during public comment I that we allow any speaker that's addressed by any commission member after leaving the podium to have the right to return a podium for an additional two minutes and a commission unanimous vote to be mandatory for any attending person's removal from the meeting.

Okay, you would have to actually, you, You would have to amend the charter to...

I can make a motion, and the commission can vote on it.

Mr. Knight, one of those, I think, would require potentially an amendment of the charter, but the other one would just require an amendment to our resolution itself if it were going to be a forever rule, but otherwise what she could do is make a motion per meeting until, correct?

So it would depend on the conduct it's... fact specific, the resolution does have a specific provision if somebody refuses to leave the lectern when they're directed to. So there's procedures for that. So can't really place a set rule for everything. It's going to depend on the conduct.

But I do think that what you could do is if you want to make that a permanent rule about somebody being able to come back up to the podium, what you would do is propose that as an amendment of the resolution. But per meeting, you could make a motion for that meeting. I forget exactly what it's called, but essentially for that meeting, you're making a motion.

So I would like to make it as a motion for this meeting.

Okay. So... can we get through the um can we get through the actual like until we get to public comment and before we start public comment would you would you be willing to make the motion then at that point because that's when that would well we don't have any proclamations so and we don't have any presentations well first we have to actually have a a vote on changing the um let's take these one at a time so i i agree with you are moving them around

That is the next item.

So first, we have a motion to change the new business item 13 as discussed. And I don't have a problem with that. Is there a second?

I have no objection.

OK. Okay.

Does that require a second?

It does require a vote to change the agenda. I apologize. I second. Because the agenda, it comes to us from the clerk, but when we go to change it, it requires a vote. Okay. I second. And after that, we will vote on the agenda as altered, because we have to have a vote on the agenda itself. uh okay so there's a motion in a second um to alter the agenda as stated by commissioner corey which is to move 13 a and b down to e and f and to move and to make 13 c d e and f to new a b c and d all in favor say aye aye aye all opposed okay that carries 5-0 uh are there any other and we had the two walk-on items which we already discussed are there any other changes um anyone would like to make to the agenda If not, then I would need a motion to approve the agenda as amended.

Motion to approve the agenda as amended.

Okay, I have a motion from Commissioner Corey to approve the agenda as amended. Second? Second. Second from Commissioner Butler. All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed? That carries 5-0. Okay, now we will get to, and we don't have any presentations. Correct. Okay. Uh, we do have, um, we do have proclamations to our announcements. Um, is there anything new on.

Yes. Um, so coming up in October, it's actually a really busy time for us. Um, so the weekend of Friday, October 16th and Saturday, October 17th is basically our big fall season for the town. so the haunted house will be friday night and saturday night friday night there will also be a golf cart trunk or treat i believe that's hosted by the parks board and saturday there will be a fall festival hosted by the parks board and then saturday evening running sort of concurrently with the haunted house melbourne beach police will have their movie in the park which is going to be et okay um so the the dates and times are listed in the agenda on

upcoming events page and then we'll be adding those to the calendar so just stay tuned for that on the website uh thank you very much so that those are on page that is on page four but there there's uh there weren't anything there's not anything extra that's not on page four no no okay all right great uh okay so then now uh presentation by special guests we don't have any Now, Commissioner Quary, would be the time for you to make the public comment motion for this meeting.

Make a motion regarding the public comment that any speaker addressed by a commission member after leaving the podium has the right to return to the podium for an additional two minutes. and commission unanimous vote to be mandatory for anyone's removal at this meeting?

We need to take those separately because I believe that a unanimous vote to remove somebody is is not allowed because you have to have somebody that is that. I mean, like whether you like it or not, our charter says that the mayor is the commissioner is the chair of the meeting. And that's who the I mean, I don't think you can't make a motion to alter the charter.

Are you asking me a question?

Yeah, I mean.

So you are the chair. Yeah. And you do have a resolution in place that governs certain conduct.

Yeah.

So. for that particular conduct, which would be section eight, which would be if somebody were to refuse to leave the lectern, then they could be removed by you. I think probably the proper motion would be motion to suspend the rule for that, which would normally require two thirds vote, but for unanimous vote to throw somebody out, if they are disruptive, um, Yeah, I honestly don't know how that vote would occur because we do have to have a chair.

I think there's a liability.

And you have leeway to determine what's disruptive and what is not as chair.

Yeah, I mean, so I don't think that you can actually make that, require it unanimous. So I think you ought to separate them. I mean, Mr. Knight is essentially saying that, I believe. I think that if you want to make it as a change, get with him. He could probably research it and change it in the resolution.

I don't want to make a resolution change. I just want to make it for this meeting. So perhaps the attorney would clean up the language for me.

So for the first one regarding allowing somebody to come back up and discuss if they've been addressed by the commissioner, it would be essentially a motion to suspend the rules for this meeting to allow for the public to comment in excess of three minutes if they are addressed by the commission.

Okay, so I amend it to what our attorney has said.

Okay, so we have a motion to, and is it to suspend all the rules or just to suspend that rule? Suspend that rule. Yeah, that's what I figured, but we have a motion from Commissioner Corey to suspend the public comment rule, which limits comments to one comment of three minutes, so that if anyone on the commission addresses the public member of the public then the member of the public can come back and speak a second time for two minutes did I characterize that correctly Commissioner Corey okay we have a motion second okay we have a motion in a second any discussion

Just a question.

Commissioner Corey a lot of times people from the public come up and they talk about something they ask us something and we answer a question and sometimes it comes like a little dialogue. So you're saying any dialogue they they would could get an extra 2 minutes if they sometimes it's it's argumentative sometimes it's a caustic a little bit, but even sometimes it's friendly and it's not and even if it's friendly, yeah, they should be able to have some

If they walk away, they should be able to come back if someone is engaging them. I got you. From the dais.

I think it should be across the board because otherwise you get into judgment calls. Well, yeah, speaker, content, person, and if you give it to one person but don't another, that's a First Amendment violation in a public forum.

Friendly amendment to your motion might be uninterrupted, that their time would be uninterrupted during their speaking.

I accept that amendment thank you.

I have another question. All right now I'm just envisioning some kind of back and forth going on. And so we bring the member of the public back they speak for 2 minutes. And now there's another conversation from the chair or from one of us back. Do they get to come back each time for two minutes, so it goes back and forth, back and forth, so it could go all night long?

I think the key is if you don't want them to be able to speak, don't engage.

OK. Okay, so then it would. It could go on forever because they'd be fired. They would be given two minutes.

They would have the ability to.

Well, like, for example, earlier somebody said that we have to get wanded down because I threatened to bring a gun. I did not, and it's absolutely false, but people can get up and say literally whatever they want and lie for their three minutes.

We're not getting off topic.

When somebody says something like that, I mean, it's just like, but I didn't even say anything then.

But now you're requiring them to come back and talk to you for two minutes.

No, I'm giving an example. Let's move along. It's going to be a long night. If you listen to when...

Okay, so will you call the question? Will you call the question, please?

All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed? Nay. That carries 4-1. So for this meeting, and then you'll get with Mr. Knight if you want to make later permanent changes.

Okay, and then the other part of it was the vote, if the attorney would say what would be correct as far as the motion for a vote to have someone removed from the meeting.

Not sure only only for this meeting so for this meeting You would do essentially the same motion. It would be to suspend the rules Specifically be the rules of decorum and section 7a of the resolution that only governs specific conduct So you could suspend it for that specific conduct. I

for removal.

Yes. And that specific conduct is if somebody refuses to leave the lectern after they've been warned. So, for instance, if there are three minutes ran up or if they had two minutes or if they went over to four minutes, whatever it is, and they refuse to leave the lectern, then under your resolution, the mayor has authority to give that person a warning and then have them removed. So you could suspend that rule. As far as other conduct goes, I think the mayor as chair would have discretion whether someone is being disruptive for the meeting. So the only thing that I could think of would be to suspend Robert's rules related to that. But I think it's probably something that should be determined on a case by case basis if somebody's being disruptive or not.

But, I mean, there's provisions in the charter about the mayor, like, there are certain things, and that's one of those things is during meetings, and if there's, I mean, I believe you'd have to change the charter on that, so. I mean, you know, it's plus charter so the charter says you're the presiding officer of the commission yeah well and you're also head of civil defense and military law which i know is usually for when there's emergencies but i mean when you're the general law is the chair if someone is being disruptive and i just feel like the town runs into an issue if they just because they they don't like how i do it they want to pass this special rule but then later on Any other mayor. You know they don't have a they don't have a super majority vote and maybe the town's going to get sued because they got thrown out from you know without any vote.

So my recommendation would be if you want to suspend that specific rule of the resolution to do that if not my suggestion would be just to do it on a case by case basis.

Mr. Knight, could you give me an example of a case-by-case basis? What would you imagine that would look like?

For instance, if somebody is continuously talking or arguing while you guys are trying to conduct the items on the agenda and they won't stop, then you would have the authority, the mayor would have the authority to remove them. But I don't think there should just be a blanket rule that says it would require five votes to remove somebody. because then you could never remove somebody because as chairperson she has that discretion as the presiding officer

I mean, the thing is, if people are laughing or talking when somebody else, the point of the chair is to protect the person that is at their podium. So one person gets up and they speak and they say whatever they want, they go to their seat. Somebody else gets up and speaks and people don't like what that person is saying and so they're laughing and they're talking. The chair is supposed to say, you know, could you please, you know, stop, like you're disrupting people. And then you warn them, specific warning, and if they keep doing it, they're escorted out. And it happens in every single city. So... you know, I actually people clap, there's meetings, but you're not supposed to clap, they will warn you, I mean, you'll get thrown out for clapping, you know, but I like, but but people are walking up, it's when the person is at the at the podium and speaking that or is already speaking, that's when I'm because you're disrespecting their time. But

But it has been pointed out that someone clapping and cheering or laughing or what have you is a freedom of speech and that is something that we're not supposed to tell them to stop doing. They're allowed to do that and we're not supposed to be able to remove somebody when they're expressing that freedom of speech by clapping or what have you?

No, that's not true because your freedom of speech is when you're at the podium for your three minutes, not when you're sitting in the audience being disruptive of other people. Mr. Knight. Mr. Knight.

So for instance, if people are constantly clapping during the meeting, that would not be freedom of speech. It would be disrupting the meeting. So it depends when the clapping is occurring. If it's occurring as somebody is walking back from the podium, then that would be fine. If it's if they're clapping while you're trying to conduct your business, then that would be a disruption. So it depends case by case.

I mean, I OK, so so Would the commission like to kind of say what they feel about this?

Well, I mean, I think the question comes down to discretion. It seems like it'd be at the discretion of the chair. And sometimes that discretion isn't always good, but that we're all human beings, you know? It's kind of hard to always be perfect, you know? So I can't expect perfection. you know from any I don't. So I do think it is I think it is the realm of the chair and you know we hope for better. We ask for better behavior from our towns of hope we we we make a pledge before meeting asking everyone to treat everyone civilly we hope the commissioners and our chair will treat everyone civilly. But we're all human beings. And we just have higher expectations of each other. So we want to reach to the higher expectations and strive to be better. I think I can agree. We can all agree to that. We all want to be better. So I'll leave it at that.

Commissioner?

I agree with what you said. I actually was the commissioner that brought the civility code up for vote and i was the only commissioner at the time that well i am the only commissioner sitting on the commission now that was there then that voted for it and i did it because i i take issue with disrespect i will not i'm not a fan of people yelling louder to get their point across to someone that's yelling at them. Both parties are at fault. And that's where the problem is, that we have a chair that engages in it. And so I don't know how to resolve that. And I love that you've brought this to the attention of the commission, Commissioner Corey, but it is a difficult situation because of the dynamics of it. and I had hoped the civility, obviously it's not a law, it's just a little reminder, and it applies to every single one of us.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Do we have a motion and a second? Is that where we're on? Or no, you're trying to determine whether you can.

so if if everyone is um since they've kind of spoke their piece about the um their feelings about people being removed then i'll withdraw that motion and we can just proceed with just the first motion that has already been voted on that allows the speaker to return for an additional two minutes that's right all right okay thank you thank you and that's all

We don't take public comment on our legislative or our procedural rule votes.

Now we're taking public comment.

That's one thing. We don't take public comment on, because it's just a procedural thing. It was just suspending one particular vote for this. We didn't change the resolution. If it was the resolution, we would have taken comment.

It's just the next on the agenda.

Yeah. What's that?

It's just public comment. Yeah, yeah.

That's why we do it right now. Right. OK. So now, if there's nothing else, then we will go to public comment.

getting my steps in tonight. Susan Stark, 307 Fifth Avenue. I appreciate the civility pledge being implemented, and I appreciate this topic being brought to the forum for additional time. I told you about the three Rs. I would add a fourth one. So we have reasonable, responsible, respectful, and if things get out of kilter, I would say

motion for a recess let things come down and come back to order thank you tina comic 505 avenue b sherry thank you for bringing up that motion the sad thing is we wouldn't even need this if the mayor even-handedly used the dais in the way that the rules and robert's rules were intended and evenly ejected people as needed but not just the people who oppose her. It's been very evident that her supporters who have now dwindled and disappeared and thankfully, they usually could clap and they could laugh and they could say whatever they wanted, they could talk back and she would not remove them and yet she would remove you know, several members of the audience that are sitting here tonight at just the whim of her, you know, if she just took a deep breath, she would remove them. I think the courts have upheld many, many times that public forums must be evenly administered you cannot just remove people or censure people or get rid of people who are against your point of view and not apply that same standard to the other side of the house and so we wouldn't even need this if this was you know the case but that's not been the case for the last three years this mayor has repeatedly removed people from the building who opposed her while she allowed people who supported her again they've all disappeared now we wonder why SHE DIDN'T REMOVE THEM FROM THE BUILDING. SO I THINK WE NEED TO EQUALLY ENFORCE THE RULES, ROBERT RULES, NOT JUST WHEN THEY SUIT YOUR NEEDS, MS. DINGINGTON.

JAN PENCE. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SHE DOES.

Jan Pence, here for my three minutes, 200 Riverside Drive. I totally agree with what Tina said. As someone who has been thrown out of this meeting, when I laughed one time and the mayor insisted that I laughed twice, and actually the first laugh was Carrie, I was here with my brother, who's an attorney, Ryan came up, said he was sorry. He couldn't do anything. So I totally agree that this commission should look at what this mayor has done. She targets people. I've been targeted numerous times. I'm not saying that I haven't opened my mouth and said some things to her that she might not have liked. But to be... called out for laughing one time and thrown out of the meeting is ridiculous. And I'm so thankful this is our next to the last meeting having to deal with this mayor.

Point of order, Madam Mayor. Just to be careful, you know, with our pledge of civility, criticism is criticism. We just have to, no insults, no name calling, nothing like that. All right.

Good evening, everyone. Carrie Ross, 206 Flamingo Lane. I think what's really important is to remember the content of what was being said last week when the person was removed. We know that public comment is available for praise, criticism, comment. You can sing the national anthem if you want to during those three minutes. SPECIFICALLY WHAT THE PERSON THAT WAS REMOVED WAS SAYING WAS THAT ONE PERSON ON THE COMMISSION WHO WAS VOTING AGAINST THE 4.6 MILLAGE RATE MIGHT HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN DOING SO BECAUSE SHE OWNS FOUR NON-HOMESTEADED PROPERTIES HERE IN TOWN. THAT IS A FACT. THAT IS NOT SOMETHING TO ARGUE ABOUT AND IT'S CERTAINLY NOT A REASON FOR SOMEBODY TO BE EJECTED FROM THE MEETING. SO I JUST WANT TO UNDERSCORE THE CONTENT OF WHAT WAS BEING SAID I AM VERY GRATEFUL THAT OUR BUDGET WAS APPROVED. I'M VERY GRATEFUL FOR THE MILLAGE RATE, BUT LET'S NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT THE REMOVAL OF CITIZENS WEIGHS HEAVILY IN FAVOR OF THE ONES THAT OPPOSE ONE PERSON ON THIS COMMISSION. WE ALL KNOW EXACTLY WHO THAT IS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EVERYBODY.

Seeing none, we'll close public comment. Okay, we will go to the next item, which is the town manager report. And one of the items that you'll discuss is this walk-on, this six-page Haley Ward document. I'll turn it over to you.

Thank you very much. I'm going to go through this fairly quickly because I know we have Alice Graham's family here and I know they're waiting for that that item. So let me let me go through this quickly. Yes. First, I want to discuss the technical memorandum from David Baggett with Haley Ward at your June 17th meeting. You all had voted to move ahead with the engineering for Basin 10. However, there was a resident who had some concerns and you had asked me and you had asked Tom Davis to talk to the resident and sort things out. It's taken a couple months because what happened is Mr. Baggett, we asked him, we explained everything. He went back to his company and they realized there was a manhole that they had not scoped. And so they went back and did some more work on their dime, not ours. And he has put together a technical memorandum, stamped it, and essentially said that while the numbers change slightly, their recommendations stand and are sound. And so I'm bringing this back because we are gonna go ahead and proceed with contracting with them. And I think you had agreed to take it out of reserves, the funding for that. So I wanted to first see if you had any questions about that and whether or not you are okay with us proceeding.

I remember when that gentleman from the public spoke, do you remember his name? I wanna thank him, great catch Patrick by him and I appreciate Kenny Patrick Kenny so Mr. Kenny wherever you are thank you so much for coming to the meeting and and and speaking up and then thank you for your time of getting together with Haley Ward and also thank you to Haley Ward for for you know updating that appreciate it at no cost to us so and thank you for handling that sure

All right, so that is that, and we're going to go ahead and move forward.

Do you need a vote for us?

No, you all already voted for that, but you asked me to update you before we moved ahead, so I wanted to make sure that that was done.

Thank you. This is great.

You're welcome. The general obligation bond ballot has been approved and printed for the November election, and I just wanted to let you know we are going to put information on the general obligation bond on the website. and social media coming this week and immediately after we finish up with the budget meeting today.

The Smith, yeah, can you tell us there's some like stipulations about how you advertise that you have to be very careful is not correct.

That is exactly right. I'll make sure that I talk to our bond council before we put anything on there. And we do have a bond council for this specific.

So it's not to sway. You can't put anything that would sway people politically, basically.

Correct. It's only educational because I know we haven't done a general obligation bond in almost 20 years. So just want to educate people on it.

But. Anybody watching at home, anybody in the audience, we need this. I can say it from up here, but we can only educate from the town.

That's correct. That's correct. So that will be coming shortly. When I wrote this memo, I had not attended the Space Coast Transportation Planning Study. meeting or the planning meeting and they did approve the study to move forward for our town and they're going to look at the traffic patterns to and from school at Gemini and that's going to extend through all the neighborhoods where there's going to be a lot of work on a1a so we will have some data to make sure we have up the appropriate speed limit signs and and see if we can find some low-cost, high-impact mitigation strategies. And this will feed into maybe future work with them where we can maybe get some grant funding. So we're forging a partnership with them, and I was just really appreciative of the transportation planning organization. And that leads me to road construction on A1A. The road construction on A1A is going to start in October. We don't have an exact date as yet, but we will let you know as soon as possible on the website. And it says that it's going to go and can be completed in early 2027. and that is the repavement of A1A. So as I said, as they're gonna be paving, we anticipate there's gonna be people who want to cut the construction and try to cut through our town, cut through different roads. Just be aware and anticipate that. And I've also talked to Chief Zander about making sure that we have, you know, appropriate patrol looking for that as well. There is also a website where you can take a look at information about the projects. It's for the Central Florida Roads. It's cflroads.com. And as I mentioned, the map is attached for that. Town staff really quickly wanted to welcome Yanalis, or he goes by Jimmy Quesada. He is now joined our Public Works Department. You may know him from the the deli department at the the Melbourne Beach Market. So he's joined our team and we're really happy to have him. He's doing very well. And we are still looking to hire a deputy town clerk. So if people have that background experience or want to apply, there's still time for that. But we're hoping in the next couple weeks we will start interviews on that. And then finally, just wanted to let you know, last year we did an employee survey, a satisfaction survey, I think in September. So as soon as we finish the budget meeting, we're going to do another survey. That survey last year was a baseline, but we will conduct it annually. And that's it for me. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Good.

I only had one question. I wanted to know about Vision Zero.

Vision Zero is a national program where a lot of transportation planners, they get together and they want to design roads and construct roads so that nobody is no pedestrians are killed. And so that is actually a national thing. In my last job running a couple of planning organizations, that was a big deal. Because as people are on their phones, they're not paying attention, they're distracted driving, there's been more and more pedestrian deaths. And so we especially want to be very proactive about that around our school zones. I can get you more information on it.

My question was are they involved at all or are we just trying to reach their standards? I'm not sure what our relationship is with them.

Well, Vision Zero is a program that the planners propose and put forward. So our town would decide, like they would give us some recommendations. Our town would decide whether or not we want to take on this.

Not have any pedestrian deaths. We don't want them.

No, no, exactly.

Okay, for sure.

This was something that the former mayor, Wyatt Hoover, was very interested in. So he did do some, you know, so if you wanted to ever reach out to him, he'd probably be a good resource, too. so thank you um i can provide some more information next next meeting okay that's it thank you thank you i didn't ask before but i mean we've already passed budget but i still i'm wondering um if i will ever be able to get a copy of the uh inventory

Yes, absolutely. Jenny and I talked about that. We were just busy with the budget. We will finish and that is the next thing on our plate to get. Yes, absolutely.

OK, if there's nothing else for the managers report, then I'll turn it over to the town attorney for that to discuss the ordinance.

That's actually an agenda item so that later. Okay. All right, really just one quick update Y'all had tasked me to work with mayor elect picket for the ethics later or letter I met with mr. Pickett today. We have some revisions that we're going to make I'm gonna get back to him tomorrow and So we anticipate sending that out probably by Friday to the Ethics Commission. So my office will send that out, certified mail return receipt, and we'll request a opinion as quickly as possible.

I thought you said when we did that that he's actually the one that sends it, or just he signs and then, but y'all will send it?

Yeah, he signs it, but my office will handle that being sent out.

Okay. um is it public when it gets sent so like if people want to like or is it pub like Is it a public record if people ask? If it's something that you worked on or do you know?

So usually the names are kept confidential if you wish. So I don't know if it's necessarily a public record. Since I've been working on it, it probably is. But I'll talk with Mr. Pickett and see if he has any issues with me sending a copy to you for your review.

No, I'm just, people, there may be people that want to see it or that are, you know, I didn't know if it was a public record or not. It may be that when.

So the opinion will be a public record.

The opinion will, but I didn't know if once it gets sent, like if it's a public record, like once it's signed and sent or not, or.

I don't know. I'll have to look at that and get back to you. Okay.

All right. Any other questions? Okay. Then we will go. I keep putting away my, uh.

Would you like a motion to accept the consent agenda?

Yes, I do need that. However, do we, is Mr. Manhart here? Does anyone, because it looks like he is applying for a P&Z position. In the past, whenever somebody has applied for particularly P&Z, or the BOA, the commission has always, we usually never pass those by consent. They've usually come up and just ask some questions because it is an important, the BOA and PZ are pretty important ones. Does anyone want to ask any questions of the gentleman?

I believe he's applying as an alternate.

Yeah, no, but when, but they still vote because if, um, yeah, so there's still a voting member if, um, but I'm just saying like in the past, I mean, I don't, I don't think the commission's ever for those positions, not usually ask questions. So I don't know if you guys want to or not. Um, is Mr. Manhart here? No, no. Okay, all right. I mean, I. Motion to approve the consent agenda. I would like to pull that one then, F. um so that one but the other the so a through e if if there's no objection to a through e then those will pass by consent i'm going to go ahead and pull f um okay those past hearing no objection a through e passes um we will if we could move f down to the very bottom of new business

If the person's not here, we can't talk to him. There's no point to move it.

Yeah, but it gets pulled anyway, so. Okay, so then we will go on to public hearing special orders. We don't have any, do we, Mr. Knight? No public hearings? No, okay. We didn't take a vote.

Hmm?

don't have to take a vote on the um consent agenda they just they pass we already voted on the agenda itself and then when you get to the consent agenda i always have to explain this but it basically everything passes if there's no objection any one member can pull so a through e the minutes have passed uh f has been pulled because one member pulls it and it goes down to new business so y'all can put it at the top but i would suggest we put it at the bottom so Okay, so we will go to new business and these got rearranged earlier. Item number C became 13A. So we are on that, correct? Is that correct, Town Clerk?

Yes, it is.

Okay, so original item C is A. Original A and B become E and F. So we are on 13C. Page 51.

Page 51. Page 51.

This item was brought back from the last meeting. You all ran out of time and didn't get to this. This has to do about approval for a contract for services for the instructor for Flow and Be Strong exercise classes, Kelly Young. Her CV is attached in the packet. We do pay other instructors for yoga, tai chi, and the music in the park, and Ms. Young is the only one that we do not pay. My understanding is at first we had not offered to pay because at the time we did not have funding for it. The funds would come out of the park fund, the Reichman Park Fund, and it seems that we could be able to afford that if we want to.

What do we pay each instructor?

$65 an hour.

So this is, do we have contracts for the other construct?

Yes, we do. We have contracts for all. Yes, we do. All right.

So this is like, these are annual contracts and then it's renewed each year. Yes. So the terms or whatever are fixed for that period of then, right?

That's correct. That's correct. When I came aboard, I made sure that we had written contracts with the hourly rate on it.

So there are there any other terms other than the the the dollar amount to that are they required to carry insurance or any anything else or.

Yes, I believe they are they do carry their own insurance.

We that's in the contract is stipulated.

I don't know if her contract has been been put together because she does not have a contract. She's not being paid for that, but I believe the other ones the other ones still.

um so is this essentially it says approval of a contract for services but we don't have a contract in front of them so we can't approve a contract we don't have in front of us but is this something that you're wanting to basically say like that you because she hasn't had a contract before but you want to be able to go and have one and pay like the others and then perhaps come back next month with the actual contract that we would approve but like to yeah yeah yes so um because i would be i i i can't i'm i i can't get on board approving a contract what i have in front of us but i do um we have a lot of people that really appreciate the programs in the park my but i just i want to be able to see the contract so i'd be in favor of it you know tentatively and then next month we could see the contract

That's fine. I mean, I just didn't know the history of why she was not paid and others were. So, you know, I just wanted to offer that equity. And she had actually approached us about it, too.

I ran into her. I met her at someone's home in my neighborhood quite a while ago, several months ago. It was May. Anyway, she indicated to me that she just kind of loves doing it and at the time just said, you know, I want to just give this free service because it's so good for people. And it was kind of a kind-hearted, generous gesture, and then it's been a while, and I think she realizes everybody else is getting paid. Or the other situation can be if she were absent and didn't want to not have the opportunity the classes she would get a sub and she would have to pay the sub out of her own pocket and not being paid from us you know so and obviously with the contract we may have to address subbing or not subbing because that now now being paid would be a different story obviously I guess subs would no longer be an issue I don't know how that works in the contract but

When this comes back to us, could we also see if there are existing contracts for anyone else? Could we kind of get, because I've never seen any of these contracts since I've been here, but I would like to see like whatever the proposed contract is and then here's the other existing contracts so we can kind of compare them. And one of my things was I just would like to have in the contract for all of them that they,

um that they count how many people are there and so that they they sort of update because i feel like that throughout the year would be helpful information when you go to renew a contract and price to be able to have that data and statistics well yeah we're going to renew them at the beginning of the fiscal year so now's a really good time to do that but i had asked mr knight to to draft the contracts for us because we didn't have anything and i wanted to have something just in case

Yeah, and I have drafted an independent contractor agreement that has the pricing, the terms, warranty of services, assignment and subletting. So if she can't be at the class, she can have somebody else. Once she lets the town know, somebody else will be covering public records, indemnification, termination of the agreement, the effective date, so.

does have those provisions in there okay good so i don't know that this is something that we need to vote on now i think it would just maybe come back although if you wanted you could ask like to know like get an idea are you going to be able to get the votes for it three i think you probably will but is that what you know

Yeah, I wanted to know if I got your approval to do that. And then we would go ahead and, you know, we were going to renew all the contracts in October.

Yes. And the residents have reached out a lot. Yeah. The residents have reached out and said that they very, very well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

so how about a motion that we um direct the town manager uh with the attorney to um put together a contract for services for uh miss kelly young for flow and be strong a second okay so um that we would then approve next month or that we would review it for approval okay

So we have a motion from Commissioner Corey, seconded by Commissioner Butler, to direct the town attorney and the manager to go ahead and get together a draft contract for the Flow and Be Strong course and bring that back to us next month for our review and approval, I suppose. Yes? Okay, is there any public comment?

Did you second?

Yes, she did.

Just real quickly, when you have those people here for the traffic study and what have you, both of the signs, both of the buttons that you push when you walk up Ocean Avenue to go toward the beach, they both say the same thing on the side. They can't both be the same street and I brought this up to the commission a couple of years ago and they still say the same thing. So one of those signs is wrong. So you don't know which button to push because they both say the same thing.

Go ahead.

That whole intersection is being rebuilt with the update for visually impaired and all that. So that is part of our state road project.

Okay, see another comment. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed? Okay, that carries 5-0. So you'll come back to us with that card. And I would ask if it's, because it would be, if you could bring whatever contracts that are existing for the others, because that way we could look at them all.

Yeah, I mean, we're going to renew them all anyways in October, so yes. Yes, we will.

Okay, thank you. um and uh just i one thing i would want to know if you could get finance in between now and then to just reach out to our um or even have the town attorney our insurance to make sure if there's any issues about coverage if someone was injured in one of the courses um because that would be a question i'd have but like how that would be handled and whether you know whether the insurance requires that they carry something or at least provide you know something okay uh all right so we'll move on then to uh 13 original item d which is now 13 b uh public works director mr davis thank you so much for this this is wonderful come on up i would like to address you from here and the reason is for my

amazing feelings for this lady. Alice is a legend.

She has spread so much happiness.

She's so intelligent. just to talk with her. In fact, I included in your package one of our former employees. Of course, she's a journalist. I could never have written it like that. But when Jennifer Torres, the author of that, took those points from Alice's life and listed them to the end of that publication, I said, we should hang out on our walls. And unfortunately, Alice never does anything easy. She decided to get COVID last week. I understand she's on the mend and she'd be here. I would encourage... By the way, I did not get the plaque finished. It's being wood carved. It'll be about 18 by 36. It will hang or be near the bottom of that magnolia tree that she's loved so much. It will always be a monument to her. ever want to meet some neat people go to her birthday parties people show up from all over i'm amazed with how many people she's touched and influenced and of course her daughter served the town a lot of years so she And I hope some of the neighbors did make it tonight to speak. So I would encourage you to allow me to go ahead and put that plaque underneath there. That's my request. And then you'll go to public.

Thank you, Mr. Davis. And this is a wonderful packet item you put together in. uh yep motion to approve the placement of the sign yes we have a motion from the vice mayor and second second from commissioner butler uh any public comment come on up i mean we're gonna approve it it's gonna this is gonna be the least contentious thing every but come on up and yeah oh

Susan Stark, 307 Fifth Avenue. I am Alice's neighbor and have been for 35 years. She's a lovely lady. I watched her bicycle down to watch the sunset for years, and then when she wasn't able to do that, she has a walker that she walks with. And now, so she makes all the accommodations to get her there. When she turned 100, the fire department and police came by, and there were 100 flamingos lining her driveway and had to spill over to other neighbors' lawns because there were so many. But she is a wonderful person. We're blessed to have her in this community, and I'm blessed to have her as a neighbor.

Thank you. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Remy. I live on 1405 Pine Street. I just want to say that Alice is the most strong and just I look up to her. And I remember when I was like a little, I would always go over to that park because I live right next to it. And every single time Alice was always there hitting golf balls. Yeah, she's just the most, like, independent and awesome lady you'll ever meet. And every single time I would go over there, she would always just make me smile and laugh and joke and talk to me. And when I was little, I grew up with a lot of siblings, and I just didn't really like being talked to like a little kid. So she would always talk to me like I was an adult, and I really liked that. And, yeah, she was amazing. Aww.

Thank you so much. That was very sweet. Any other public comment? OK, seeing none, we have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Absolutely. Everybody, aye. Aye. All right, that unanimously passes, 5-0 plus the entire audience. That was a good one. Could you get a picture of Alice's neighbors? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Y'all want to come up? And how about we stay up here and we have Mr. Davis be with it since he spearheaded this. We could stand up or kind of lean in, but yeah. Mr. Davis, how about you do the picture? You do the picture because this is you spearheaded this, and we'll kind of just stand behind if you like. oh i hear you i know i see yeah i've seen her a bunch of she's always talked to my boys since they were little you know hey whenever we've gone up there we all need to live like she did last year and now grandson miles a year old oh my gosh i need to meet this woman tom get in the middle get in the middle she's Come on. Don't be shy. I know. We know how shy you are. Then maybe we should probably get the manager in there too. Would you like?

All right. We're plugging over.

One, two, three.

Palace. Palace.

Get her to come in next time so I can meet her.

Just go to 5th Ave. Go to 5th Ave, exactly. I used to go there all the time, then I stopped walking the dog because then it would be like a three-hour walk. People would stop, you know, like, let me ask you about this, let me ask you about this.

My husband's like, TikTok, where have you been?

but plus tally just pulls me over yeah all right okay uh if anyone needs to take a break let me know but others will just blaze through all right we should do a proclamation for her You know, maybe when he gets it done, we could do a proclamation with it. Yeah, like dedicate it. Yeah. Great idea.

Yeah.

Love it. Would you, is that something that you could bring up with Tom and the family and see if they want to do like a little proclamation where we can dedicate the, because when he gets it done and have a little proclamation for that day? Yeah, I mean, we could just have a little, we could have a little proclamation where it's like her day that day because, you know, when it's done and it's going to get hung.

Yeah.

So it'd be fun. Because then, you know, I mean, then they can get a little copy of the proclamation with it. So, yeah. You can get the whole, all of us will sponsor it. yeah yeah love it um cool okay uh if everyone's right are you ready mr jones yeah yeah okay all right we never adjourned or anything so yeah so we're good okay so we're gonna keep going through uh we're on um 13 um 13 c which was original item 13 e okay

the town manager yes so so this is a uh this is my request for reimbursement um i know that when you all signed the contract in february you did not want to give me a stipend and i understand that but i'm asking now for a reimbursement following the completion of my relocation and move to the town it was very clear when i moved here that i needed to be in the town because there was a lot going on And there was a lot of hand holding that was needed. I would say that, you know, I've put the bill for my move expenses in the packet and I can give you the other supporting documentation if you'd like to see it but I just wanted you know if you recall the contract doesn't allow me to take a second job so I can't earn additional income and my health insurance premiums increased by 14% and with the associated wage adjustment my raise is 1.9% so that's it And so I would appreciate your consideration for reimbursement.

any questions I just have a comment I actually wrote it because I wanted to just kind of comment on this if that's okay we need to have a motion first okay yeah okay so just what do you want to make a motion sure okay I don't do it backwards I thought I'd do it the right way I would like to make a motion to grant our town managers request for reimbursement I think you have a specific amount that you're requesting. I think we can talk about that. And also, you know, if there's part of it if anybody wants to add that you know if you were to leave two years from the date of receiving it that there would be some payback or something if people needed that to be comfortable but I would like to I know that's not really a motion so let's just I'll let people do a friendly amendment if they want I would like to make a motion to to provide the, to grant the request for reimbursement to our town manager.

Okay, what, I can't see the actual amount, but I can kind of add it up, but then I can't, it looks, yeah. I thought it was 10. Okay. Combined, okay, 10. Oh, that, I was just looking down here, that, okay.

So is the amount 10, or it says combine these expenses exceed 10?

They do, but 10 is fine. I'm not looking to take every single penny.

Is that your motion?

Yes.

Second.

Okay, we have a motion and a second to approve a $10,000 expense reimbursement for the move for the manager. is that how i would mr knight because it is an expense reimbursement right yeah because it's not compensation it's expense and it's not considered part of compensation either because i know when it comes to like it's not compensation it's reimbursement it's a reimbursement it's already incurred got it okay um and it's okay good and it's not any kind of okay uh we have a motion and a second now uh i remember i mean i'm gonna vote for this because i at the time i was like these are standard uh my only thing would be i would say if you were to leave any time within um one year that you would pay back 50 at least 50 of it or whatever but um uh but does anyone have a would that be a friendly amendment I mean, yeah. Although I would date that, but I would basically date it back to the move. So for me, I mean, I would say, because it's already been spent. I mean, it's just a reimbursement, but it's already been spent by her. And I mean, I was... It's expensive to move and I know how contentious it was. I mean like I voted at the time I was one of the people that voted at a time that yeah, this is standard So I'm glad that you have come around because I know you voted against it. Yeah, but that would be my thing I would say if they were to leave any time within six months from the from the original expenses That we would it would be repaid 50% Would you consider an amendment?

A year from the date of hire?

Yeah.

Yeah, we're almost there.

I know. I mean, that's what, that's, yeah. Yes, I would.

Okay, yeah.

Do you second the friendly amendment? I second the friendly amendment. Okay, so we have a friendly amendment. So it is to approve the reimbursement of expenses at the rate of $10,000 with the receipts, and that if the manager were to leave any time within 12 months from the date of hire, her original date of hire, then it would, 50% of this would be repaid. Is there any public comment?

Oh, I have a comment, too.

And she has a comment, too. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, but I, okay, sorry, then go ahead, you wanna read? Sorry, I'm reading it, I just didn't wanna get waylaid. Since the commission received an email from Mrs. Smith requesting reimbursement some time ago for her relocation expenses, I have thought a lot about why I voted against including relocation compensation in her contract. The truth is that at the time we were in discussion about the town manager's contract, we were in a very dark place, filled with mistrust, disrespect, anger, and suspicion. When I say we, I mean elected officials, staff, and residents. I can speak only for my own vote, which was frankly one based in mistrust. I had concerns that the manager's priority was to move to Florida, not her desire to expertly manage the town of Melbourne Beach, I have been proven wrong every single day of Mrs. Smith's employment, beginning with her professional and selfless work on her very first day at Town Hall when Melby came into our lives. I strongly support reimbursement to Mrs. Smith and would entertain the caveats, which we talked about. Thank you for everything you've done.

Thank you, that was very nice. Thank you. And I think well said and correct. Thank you. And you really have worked. That's why I wrote it. I mean, you have worked hard. Yes. This has not been easy. Yeah.

My only comment is that I agree with having that stipulation in there because I'm afraid another town's gonna steal her from us and you're doing you're doing such a great job and very very proud of the work you've done and just keep doing it and I think this is a Legitimate request. Thank you

So the only other thing I would maybe add would be that this would be effective at her completion of the one year anniversary, which is in February.

okay that's but i'm not i mean i'm not entertaining that i would have get i i would have i wanted to get i i thought we should give it at the time so i'm not amending my motion yeah but thank you but thank you for your contribution i mean i i think we should be giving her a raise anyway so is it my turn yeah yeah go ahead um i i agree with everything that anna said um

when we did the screening and everything every it was a lot and um i personally was trying to protect the coffers of the town but i'm happy to do this now because of your performance thank you so much i really appreciate it thank you yeah i think that i think that um i mean i remember at the time the hiring the the you know the people that do the search but i think it

I think it was a good idea. I'm glad we did that, you know?

So, anyway.

Yeah, public comment?

Gina Coppock, 505 Avenue B. We're so glad you're here. It's been actually amazing to watch you and how well you deal with all the pressures and minutia that happens up here. I have a question, however. Part of the expenses are a rental security deposit of $3,100. Don't you get that back if you don't do anything bad to the rental property or whatever? So shouldn't that be removed?

I had to negotiate that to give it to the owner because he waived the first and last month. So you don't get that back? He only charges the first month, and usually they use that for cleaning and other things. So I don't know the answer to that, but usually they take that for the cleaning and other things.

Well, that's a pretty expensive cleaning $3,100. That's that's. Yeah. I would say, uh, we need to be sure that if that money is paid back, then that needs to be returned. Um, I'm sorry to be a stickler, but, um, you know, from my experience, a rental security deposit is returned. If you leave the property in the same condition in which you found it, And so I don't think the town should reimburse you for something you would ultimately get back. Now, if you're not getting that back, I understand. But that's $3,100 as we nickel and dime the budget that you may get back. I don't know. We should find out the answer to that.

Well, it's $3,100 that I'm out of right now.

You're out of right now. But are you going to get that back? So that's my question.

Yeah.

I don't know.

do think it's a valid point deposits if it if it technically is a deposit under florida law you're required to get it back they're supposed to hold it but um but you did say you had other expenses so it may it may be that you don't necessarily include that one but if you have other expenses i do believe the way that it is worded even though is it is a reimbursement so i do believe you would have to provide expenses what you might want to do is just provide all the expenses that you have that you would claim and even if it exceeds the ten thousand dollars you're only going to get the ten thousand dollars but that way if somebody ever later you know you'd have that would be my suggestion to you okay yeah i can do that yeah that way you're not relying on the deposit that somebody might later you know question yeah and if you have any questions and if for whatever reason you got it all together and it was like eight thousand nine hundred and eighty seven you might just get eight thousand nine hundred as a reimbursement but yeah it's fine thank you it would be we're basically approving a reimbursement of up to ten thousand dollars that you would turn in receipts we don't need to see those if you have questions you could ask the town attorney okay okay uh all right is there any other public comment and thank you for that point it is a good point uh seeing none all in favor say aye aye aye Did you vote? Oh, you did? Okay. All opposed? So that carries 5-0. Okay. Thank you. All right. Then we will move on to page 63. This is the Veterans Honor Garden at Christmas Tree Park. And this was original item F, which is now original item 13F. It's 13D. Pages 63 to 64. Ms. Smith. Yeah.

Hi there. This is really exciting. This is a time-sensitive item, so I hope we can come to a consensus today. Christmas Tree Circle right now is the garden that's right in front here, and I know it has a rich heritage with the residents of the town, and it's really being underutilized. So I talked to the Parks Board, I talked to the environmental advisory board and I also talked to our public works department and we have an idea where we would take the stone that is by the firehouse for the veterans Memorial and move it to the center of Christmas tree Park and purchase a flagpole there so that we would have it front and center. and then call it Veterans Honor Garden at Christmas Tree Circle. It's not a memorial garden because you also want to honor the veterans who are still alive and serving. It would really complement the Veterans Honor Walk that we are going to be building that will be coming out right here from the community center and going straight to the sidewalk. So they'll be right next to each other. We wanted to do this and we were gonna work with the Environmental Advisory Board on some of the plantings, you know, to see if they also, where they wanna move the Christmas tree that's outside there. But we just think it would be a really nice and appropriate way to honor our veterans. I think there were some plans for a veterans park somewhere else, but that never came to fruition. But we think this would be a better location. And as we go along, there could be other things we could add to it. But we wanted to have this at least done in time for Veterans Day because we have our meet and greet with our veterans and we have, you know, coffee and pastries as well. We were hoping to do this in time. I talked to Mr. Davis and his team, and they're excited about it, and they said they could get this done by Veterans Day. We can have a ceremony.

Yeah, I think that's great. And the picture is basically like a sort of little mock-up of what it would look like. It is a mock-up. It's not exactly. I was like, I don't remember seeing that.

It looks great. I know. And then I was like, oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. No, but it's great. I mean, that's how. It's cool what they can do. Yeah. I think it's a great idea, I said. Okay. Would somebody like to make a motion? I have a question. Mm-hmm.

Ms. Smith, is there an estimate of like the fiscal note for this?

It would just be the cost of the flagpole, which I don't know, is it maybe $1,500, because you have to put the cement in place, but we are going to handle that all in-house, the rest of it. So we'll move the stone and everything in-house. And as I mentioned, we have a brand new public works guy, so they're really happy to help and do this.

I think it just will beautify the town.

Yeah, I think it'll be beautiful. I love it.

We just put up a flagpole at our house and it did not cost that much. So maybe it could be less. Could be. Maybe. Could be.

just a question so the the the stone is positioned over there by the fire station now yeah we're moving over so that was placed there in some group decided that's that's where they they wanted to have that so we're not undoing somebody's preferences or something here by doing that they specify that they wanted to have that by the fire station or.

Not that we can find and not that I've checked with, you know, the fire department either. OK. You know, they actually want to put benches or something out there for the firefighters.

So I make sure we weren't undoing someone else's wishes or agreement there.

So, yeah, no, not not that we could find. And the stone itself doesn't have any marking on it for any organization or group. It's just an honor of a memorial of all our veterans of past wars. And then the date, November 11th, 1981, I think. But that's it. So it's a very kind of general stone. So actually, we were Tom and I were talking and we were thinking about putting the seals for each of the

military branches uh up and around uh that little semi-circle uh maybe doing something else with that to make it uh very dignified yeah do you know how far back it will be from i mean because i think this is that it's a great like people walk by people will see it a lot more um i um i've seen it like in tallahassee and in dc and stuff they've got different little areas that are like little veteran garden but a lot of times they'll have even just like a bench or two there yeah but um i would love to if we if there was a way to have even just a small bench sometimes but yeah um yeah we could do that i think that it will be seen a lot more in this location than you know the currently so right it'll be right in front of our community center be very prominent it will show you know our um you know our respect for our veterans and it'll be right next to the veterans walk that we're going to be going to yeah you might um since it does have that date on it you might just check to see in the resolutions um if they're on that particular date because that might be where it was donated or something you might be able to just to check or whatever i i doubt that it's it's something that it has to be in this location but if you did want to look i would that's what i would do is check somewhere in that date for resolutions all right yeah so it may have been somewhere it may have been somewhere there and then when they redid that they they just put it there yeah but anyway i i love it so Is there any other questions?

No, I'll just ask Clerk Jones if he could help me with that.

Yeah, absolutely. I can also check proclamations in case it was something that they did a proclamation to present it.

Yeah.

OK. We'll get that checked out. Do we have a motion? Do you need an amount for, would you like an amount? I don't think that you necessarily do, but if you- No, it's under 5,000.

Yeah. And our staff said that they can handle that under the 5,000, yeah.

So if somebody would like to make a motion, we don't need an amount on it because she's going to be able to operate under the $5,000. She just needs an approval of the sort of design and location move. Yep.

Motion to create a Veterans Honor Garden at Christmas Tree Circle as described in the memorandum. In time for Veterans Day 2026.

Perfect. Yes. OK. Second. All right. We have a motion and a second. Is there public comment? Seeing none, any further discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed? That carries 5-0. Thank you for this. I think it'll look great. Appreciate it. Okay, so now we will move to original item 13A, which has become 13E, the ordinance on paid parking. I'll turn that over to you, Mr. Knight.

so i'll go ahead and just read the title an ordinance of the town of melbourne beach florida creating new sections 30-49 paid parking program and 30-50 paid parking funds to codify paid parking program in certain town parks and codify paid parking funds providing for legislative findings providing for conflicts providing for severability providing for codification and providing an effective date So as you know, the town has an existing paid parking program. It's not codified right now, so there's nothing in writing regarding that. Essentially what this does is it codifies the paid parking program, and it also provides for the Rickman Park and Ocean Park special revenue funds. The method of enforcement is the same as the police officers currently enforce parking citations. So that's just incorporated into this ordinance. Really, the main part that I'd be looking for input from the commission is the paid parking funds in Section 30 dash 50. So I have in subsection B there what the expense, what the expenditures can be used for. That is completely at your discretion. And for purposes of tonight, I did just include subsection four there, sort of a catchall that is not needed. I figured once I spoke with you and you all had a chance to discuss this, that that could be modified and you could actually list what you would want the expenditures of the revenues for those two special funds to be.

If anyone has any questions to speak freely, I'm reading it.

So a couple comments related to it. So I was I was expecting that it would specifically identify the designated parking areas in there which should be Rickman Park ocean Park Avenue a and B beach accesses and then for a second 3rd 4th 5th 6th have beach accesses. So that those locations are specifically identified and there's what in there as well.

isn't it those are those are included in the definition of paid parking locations yeah page one 30 49 a proposed to this section the following day and then it has paid parking locations is the word shall mean include the rickman parking lot ocean um park park parking lot avenues a b all right i missed that when i wrote it in first through six yep uh

I guess also was that with the addition of the the locations and then which locations are associated with Which fund is that?

So what this does it just provides for the special revenue funds for Rickman and Ocean Park I don't know if there's any other special revenue funds for those other parks.

I don't believe there is I think there's administered across those two funds, but I was just looking for that I

delineation of which ones are in each So the way it's worded now is that the parking rates originated from Rickman Park go into the Rickman special revenue fund if there is an allocation Regarding the different parking lots and I can include something in the ordinance to that effect Mr. Reid's making a great point

BECAUSE THE REVENUE THAT COMES FROM THE NUMBERED STREETS AND THE LETTERED STREETS, ARE THEY GOING INTO THE OCEAN PARK FUND, OR ARE THEY GOING INTO THE RICKMAN PARK FUND?

SO THAT WOULD BE A QUESTION THAT I WOULD...

RIGHT. AND IF THEY'RE GOING INTO THE OCEAN PARK FUND, THEY SHOULDN'T, BECAUSE THE OCEAN PARK FUND IS THE ONE THAT HAS THE LITTLE, LIKE WE'RE SHARING IT WITH THE STATE, RIGHT? SO THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN THERE. SO IT'S KIND OF INTERESTING. THAT'S A GREAT POINT, COMMISSIONER REED. THANK YOU.

so yeah so if we can do that um so then in what is it see parking meter space fees and rates to be charged for parking meter space that shall be established by resolution so we need a separate resolution to set the parking rate or do we already have that in our fee schedule or i don't believe we currently have that in that fee schedule

Do you know, Mayor? I can't recall if it was.

I can't recall. I feel like we did it as a separate resolution back when we raised the rates or whatever. Okay. All right.

So we have a separate resolution now. And it's worded as a resolution just so we don't have to go back and amend the ordinance.

Yeah, because you want to do those by resolution rather than in the ordinance. The parking enforcement specialist, it says by police officers or parking enforcement specialists. Is that a term of art?

I included that because it's found in the traffic code section that the town currently has, so I wanted to keep those terms consistent.

My understanding is we don't necessarily have a parking enforcement special. Yeah, you can give somebody a parking, like if somebody's parked there illegally, because it's not a traffic ticket that requires a police officer to do the uniform traffic. It's essentially like just a... you know it's a non-criminal site yeah so i i actually i like that because we could potentially have you know if we ever had um one of the non-sworn officers or like we you could deputize them as the parking enforcement specialist because it would be something that they could do so i like that i would anyway so i had another comment yeah go ahead in uh 3049 f

where it talks about the resident's annual pass. So it says residents shall be eligible to obtain an annual pass. So that kind of sounds like one, and I don't think that's really what we want to do. I think we typically issue passes for any registered vehicle with that address.

That was I was going to ask about that to I feel like I would rather. I would rather make that the resident one have it be like all like property, you know residential property owners. are entitled to um according to like the the policy and have it be resolution because we we didn't ever have a written thing on what you had to do and then my first year i was like we've got to have this because there was allegations about people getting like extra passes and stuff and they weren't so they did they the finance did it right away and it's been they've been better about it but um yeah because there's some people in town that have three cars or four cars and what that policy is is that you have to have it you have to have it registered to the house because people rent too and they're entitled to it if they um under the existing policy so what i would say is that that one we need to be careful with that one and just say that all you know according according to the resolution and policies or whatever that residential um residents i guess and then define it according to the policy maybe is that mr knight i'm looking to you for kind of yeah do you see where i'm worried i'm worried about

Yeah, I don't know if we need a definition for residents. It's probably something that could be determined administratively.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like a utility bill or something like that. I would almost like to say resident annual pass, like town residents shall be eligible to obtain annual parking passes pursuant to the town's administrative resident parking policy.

So the registration proof has been working. I know. Exactly. Are you proposing changing that or?

No, I'm not. That's that's what I'm saying is that we. We we mentioned it in there and like all town residents shall be eligible.

I mean, anyway, I would I just wanted to make a comment that we have people who are considered snowbirds And so they do own property here, but their cars may be registered somewhere else. So what we do is we check to make sure the license is valid, and then we look to see either the deed on the property or a lease that is valid. So that's what we do to determine whether or not they are considered a resident. And then we just make sure the license is valid from whatever state they're in. And then we also ask for the registration to make sure that's updated as well.

But see, technically, a resident is somebody then that lives here. So that's why I'm saying that I would say that we would reference the administrative resident annual resident policy. And because that way you have flexibility of how you write that, because it's kind of evolved a little bit over time, but I do know that y'all have a, because like you said, we've got people, I mean, anyway.

If I may, I would say qualified residents shall be eligible to obtain an annual pass and let the qualification be the administrative qualifications. I wouldn't even say all town. I would just say qualified residents. Because in the future that qualification may change and it might just be only vehicles that are registered as the residents. Yeah, and then you, I mean, yeah. That's an administrative change that would make the qualification.

I mean, you could say all qualified residents according to like the. No, I would just say qualified residents. Qualified residents. But would you, Mr. Knight, would you then refer to like according to the, you know. parking resolution fee because then that way she could form whatever the policy is have it written up and then you just attach it exhibit a here's the resolution just like we do with the other fees that way it's public and we i understand yeah what you're saying sort of referring back to at least some kind of policy so yeah because that can be changed that that way that there's flexibility it's a lot easier to for that to be updated um just by resolution, just like we do any other fees or any, you know, because I think also that's where we have the guests. We have like 100 passes that are guests. So anyway, so what does somebody want to make an amendment on that one? Would you? I like what you said. Qualified residents.

Yeah, I would just change F residential annual pass. and then start the underlying regular type as qualified

delete all town just say qualified residents and continue the sentence are eligible yeah there we go so i like that so uh we have an amendment proposal from commissioner corey would somebody like to uh second it but it would be to amend um are we going to do the whole strike thing so my only question would be instead of writing to obtain an annual pass yeah you want me to put annual passes yeah yeah qualified residents are eligible to obtain annual passes uh which um yeah just annual passes to all locations other than ocean park it says excluding ocean park yeah so are we going to approve one by one any changes or additions rather than we but how uh i think that was just one that several people had a question about or whatever i'm wondering what's the best way to tackle i mean he does have it listed on here his first reading so we technically could pass this tonight but in order to do that if we wanted to make an amendment we you know well i think we can have him read back yeah

his inputs that we think the inputs he's got from us as he understands them and then we can agree to that okay how does that work yep sure mr knight so i have another change go ahead um section 3050 paid parking funds i think uh number four should be removed i don't believe that the um parking money should be in reserve funds to be used as a commission deems necessary and appropriate it should just be the items that are above four it should be the um b one two and three because the parking money should go for the parks so i would remove number four i agree yeah i'm opposed to that So you want us to take a vote?

I thought we were going to talk through all of it first and then, yeah.

The reason I say that should be removed is because at the budget discussions, you said, Commissioner Reed, that you rated the parking funds, and I don't think that at the rate that we're putting money back in that we should be rating the parking funds when the parking funds are supposedly be going towards the parks. Instead of taking money out of the reserves in the future to replace the playground equipment, which is just escalating in price, we should be saving the money for the parks. And removing number four would help save money for the parks.

Well that the commission has the would have still have the authority to decide and each time whether they want to do that and the amount that they would want to I think the way this is written is that you you identify your costs the operational maintenance of all the different costs and then at the end if there's still excess money reserve reserve money after that then there's the gives you the leeway to be able to utilize that elsewhere in the town.

That's what I disagree with. I don't think that money should be going anywhere except for the parks because I truly believe that the status of our parks is what helps our residents with their home prices. I think that keeps the home values up. And I think that it serves the community by keeping that money in there to make sure that they're maintained. As I've said in the past, I've witnessed what happens when they're not maintained, when there is no money. So I firmly believe that money should stay in the funds. And I believe that your point about the other parks other than Ocean and Rickman, that that money should be separated. because I never thought that that money is going into which one, but I think we should have a third fund for the other parks other than Ocean and Rickman, because with erosion, they're gonna need some repairs.

I would just like to, I think it, and I'm, um i think it should be in order of like i i would reword these around and make it like they shall be limited to the following and in this order uh operational cost for the management of the paid parking program because basically i mean if it doesn't even pay for itself you know i mean like that's the one thing because the kia whatever so that's the operational cost for the management like paying for the kiosk whatever And then the next would be capital projects related to the improvement, maintenance and repair of the parks and associated facilities. Three would be operational costs for the daily maintenance of town parks. And then I would say four, and to the extent that any funds are available, they may be transferred to reserve funds as the commission deems appropriate. That way you have it possible so that it doesn't require you to transfer it to reserve, but it also does say, and then it puts it in a-

It goes to the reserve.

I wasn't done. And then it also puts it sort of in an order of like, here's the most important things, which in that order I gave, I think makes sense. I mean, that's my contribution.

We currently have two staff positions that are paid for out of the funds for Ocean Park. Is that correct? There are no staff positions. I'm sorry, not staff. Fire? Fire. Right? Police?

Not anymore.

Not in this budget. So that was all removed. Okay. There's been so many. I'm sorry. No, I know. So we don't need anything specific on that. Okay. Thank you. Sorry about that.

I mean, that would be a question. Well, I'll bring it up with Tom's report about how much time they spend in those parks doing works and upkeep. And I mean, that is a legitimate cost to the parks. Right.

Yeah, I for to to answer commissioner Corey regarding the the 3rd fund to address the beach accesses. I think that's what you were proposing there. Yes, so yeah, I think I'm not opposed to doing that that separation and then those funds be you know directed towards repairs or maintenance of those accesses or whatever previously in Department 41 which is public works which gets funded out of the general fund there's in the capital plan there's always been like four or five thousand dollars allocated for beach access work so if we have that third fund and then we're using that money for the parking money to address the maintenance of those that would lessen the pressure on Department 41 and the general fund. So I'm okay with that idea. we should give ourselves the option um if there are um x reserve maybe reserve is the wrong word but after if if you're doing the budgeting correctly for the park funds and you're identifying the projects and everything you need to do and you're putting the funding out there and you have the long-term capital plan associated with that then you will be able to do the things that you want to do. And then the money will be going to those things. So by having that option at the end doesn't take away the ability to plan and budget to do the things that town desires to be done in the parks.

But the only problem with that statement is that the capital projects in those funds do not show a realistic number of what the replacement costs are. We're just putting in a dollar amount and we're not tying that dollar amount to the actual replacement costs. So I believe if we did have the- Can you give me an example?

I mean, because we just went through the budget, and if we had numbers in there that you don't believe are realistic, we probably should talk about it or had talked about it.

We just decided to put $25,000 a year into capital. I can pull out a brochure and show you that a jungle gym is over 500,000. So if you want us to go and pull out actual equipment, then tie it to the budget, then you'll see that those numbers are not realistic. So.

Well, then we, if, if you're talking specifically to playground equipment, which is what it sounds like, um, then.

I'm using that as an example. Yes.

Well, that's what the budget process is supposed to do. That's where you're supposed to try to budget the numbers you think you need.

I brought that conversation up, and no one put a number in, including myself, just that it wasn't enough.

Can I jump in here real quick on this? Because Commissioner Corey is correct. I mean, we basically have underfunded the playground equipment. last year in last year's budget um i mean that was one of the things that got we we took money from a bunch of different places eliminated some positions and that and took money from reserves to be able to put in the money for the paid fire department people so i mean it's one of those it was you don't necessarily want to underfund the capital improvement for that but at the same time we were being told you know we need to have the fire so we made a policy choice of saying these are important but one was more important now going forward hopefully the bond will pass for stormwater because that's that's always we've been underfunding stormwater for a long time um but But you are correct, Commissioner Croy. I mean, we are facing, and you know, the playground equipment isn't like stormwater, but I mean, it is one of the things that makes this place great. You know, we've got a lot of families that move here. I mean, we have pictures of my son when he was like two, crawling on the tree there. it it draws people in so that's why i mentioned um and if you'll just consider it commissioner corey the what i'd said about putting them in a certain order like a sort of preference order because if capital improvements is number two on that preference order as well as maintenance and to the extent that there is anything available afterwards, it can be put in reserves. I think that you're pretty protected because what that would really do is say that we really need to fund the capital improvement. So there may not be anything left in reserve, but it also gives you the option in case there's some emergency that you needed to. by putting it giving it some kind of a preference order i think that you actually would be able to fall back on the ordinance and the preference order to say that no we need to put this into capital improvements for what it's worth i won't be here by the time this you know but anyway well i disagree i think it should not be a um decision as to who thinks it's necessary or appropriate

So this had a couple comments of of the discussion we've had number one in the discussion about having a. The annual pass. It was brought up how many cars is legitimate like if you had 10 cars and he lived here he's you get a pass for each car or is there a limitation or is there no limitation.

So that would be something essentially decided on the administrative side, I think. I don't know what the town's policies are. I don't know if we have a limit for that. I don't think we do.

It was kind of mentioned, but it wasn't really delineated, so I just wanted to delineate. Is there a limit?

No, I don't think there is a limit, but it's not been abused. Okay. You know, I think we use reasonableness, too, with that. You know like if somebody's coming up and saying oh we got like 7 cars here, you know, we're going to probably check that out like some police out to check it out, you know.

I don't know if there needs to be a policy about that or not it's I don't know so I mean I have I have a lot of children myself and you know, I know that you know you have a lot of kids they want they want to hit the residents right. Each have a car each have a car then. Would you limit that? Would that be a limit? Like if somebody had five children?

No, I mean, if they have a license, valid license, they have their registration for their car, that's why we don't limit it because there could be five vehicles that are registered to that household.

Just wanted to make that clear because it kind of was talked nebulously. And then finally, I've been thinking about kind of like the polls here between commissioner corey commissioner read on the reserve funds and where it was this where does this line. I think I think. The town commission always has the ability to do to deem what is necessary and appropriate. It doesn't need to be spelled out because of its spelled out it kind of gives guidance saying yes you can do this if you don't spell it like if you removed it. The town commission could still do it. but it's not really giving it guidance to do it. So I don't think it should be in there for that reason. Not to say that the town commission couldn't do it, but that they should think about it before they ever try to do something like that for the reasons that Commissioner Corey mentioned, is that it has been like that in the past and everything starts to get shabby. Melbourne Beach isn't shabby. Melbourne Beach looks awesome. And the reason it's awesome is because it's funded. and so we want to keep it funded but but to commissioner Reid's point there might come a time where we're an extremist we we don't know what the future is going to lead to or what's going to happen when they if they remove property taxes etc and we may be in a pickle at some point so so we may need it so we can always do what the town commission deems necessary and appropriate I don't think it needs to be spelled out in this document though that's what I'm saying

Well, but I hear you. But I think that basically a special fund policy, because that's kind of what this is, it's creating, it actually does, because once you create it, it does have an effect for your audit and when you do accounting. Because when you have a sort of special fund policy, they will then ensure that you are accounting and using the money according to your special fund policy. and so and you know it's good i mean like people want to know well you're charging at this how are you using it you want to have some flexibility but at the same time you want you know that's why again i go back to my let's put in an order they shall be used for these things in this order because and then number four reserves it would say to the you know to the extent possible you know um it's sort of like the end catch-all that way it gives you the ability if you ever have some emergency oh my gosh we've got some crazy emergency we're gonna have to pull funds from that without having to amend the ordinance but by putting in this other order you have to first spend it on just maintenance of the program itself right because it has to pay for itself the kiosks next like capital costs and you know maintenance of the area. Or you could even put capital and those two together. And then the last one is to the extent there's anything left reserved, it gives you the ability to... But it makes it... You're not going to be putting it into reserves unless you've done those other things with the money in that order.

Your point is well taken, but I feel like if you delineate that, then you're giving guidance to do it that way. Whereas if we don't delineate it, we're actually giving guidance that it would be would be a big deal if we were to go into it not that we couldn't but it would be a bigger deal and it would be a little more burdensome on the commission to do it so we're less likely to do it i mean this isn't you only need three votes this only needs to pass by three votes anyway right so how do we do this to pass it do you want to come yeah

So I can just sort of give you a summary of what I have as far as the changes go. The first one I have is section 30-49, subsection F. And it would read resident annual pass qualified residents shall be eligible to obtain annual passes, which will allow parking at the paid parking locations, excluding Ocean Park, without being required to pay the daily parking rates, as may be adopted by the town commission from time to time.

Very good. Yeah, that's good.

So that's the first one. The second question. would be whether to create a third fund for the beach access lots. That would be a simple fix, just essentially adding what the beach access special revenue fund to subsection A there. And then the last one would be whether to remove section B4 which is the reserve funds as the town commission deems necessary and appropriate.

Probably have to check with the company to see if they have that capability to carve out those spots as separate from all the rest of them.

May I interject? I believe that we're going to be going to a computer program. And I believe that the money comes in by parking space number. And I believe that the parking space number would indicate what park the money is being generated from. And that would just be a bookkeeping computer spreadsheet, if you will.

Yes, that's correct. We are going to the QR codes. Yeah, I don't have much more information. I think Tom's working to procure that right now, so yeah.

Mr. Knight, let me ask you a question. Say the town had got hit by some hurricane and suffered like a big damage and we dipped into our reserves and exhausted them below the two months required by the state, but this passed and didn't have an allowance for being able to use any parking money to put it into reserves. Would the town be able to put it in reserves without amending this ordinance to be able to bring their reserves up to the state required minimum?

so if you didn't have that catch-all phrase my opinion would be the codification of this specifically requires you to only spend it on the funds that are enumerated in here

So if we got Santa Bell hit, we wouldn't be able to, we'd have to spend two months to amend this before we could even use any of the parking money, which is money again.

So maybe the only thing you could do is. Emergency ordinance. Declare an emergency and say you're doing. Say we have to use it. For an emergency. Yeah. And really that was the intent of just including it as number four.

Yeah.

In case there is a crazy time like that, then you would have. Discretion you still have to vote for it because it's subject to the Commission what they deem appropriate and necessary But it would still be votable to take that money without it being in this No, if you remove it, you will not be able to so if you were to remove number four then what's codified in your code would be you can only spend those funds on one two and three and

I hope that I made the reason why.

But if we got hit by a hurricane, those parks would need to be rebuilt anyway. That would be the money.

Now, I'm saying if we got hit by a hurricane, not at the parks, but say an entire area of the town, other areas, and we had to spend a bunch of money and our revenue went way down because those houses now are not going to be assessed at and be paying. You wouldn't be able to use this without changing it.

like I think that and you know it's like every ordinance you can change it if the time comes but you know that's your decision at this point if you do want that yeah but not only that or if you'd have to go through the process of amending the ordinance come into play the reserve policy on the next conversation I don't think this parking fund policy is necessarily for a doomsday where are we at so really i i think we're fine on section 30-49 subsection f i think everybody agrees with that um really i just need guidance on whether to remove subsection 4 there in 30-50 and to add the beach access lots as a special revenue fund pending a phone call with the company to make sure that we can allocate those

I mean, I think that the reserve needs to be in there. I think there's ways that you can leave it in there, but also address the valid points that commissioner, um, Corey has made and, you know, uh, so that's, so it seems like we have, um, concurrence on everything except, uh, 30 54.

Is that your understanding? So, um, I'll make a motion that if we want to resolve that, we, we need to do a vote now or.

YEAH, I'D LIKE YOU TO VOTE FOR THAT SUBSECTION 4 AND WHETHER YOU WANT TO KEEP IT OR NOT.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION THAT IN THIS RESOLUTION NUMBER, WHAT IS IT, 2026 TBD, THAT 3054 REMAINS, 3050B4.

I will pass the gavel and second the motion.

Any further discussion? Seeing none, any public comment? Seeing none, call to question. All in favor?

That it remains, right?

Aye. Aye. All opposed? Nay.

Nay. Nay. Roll call vote, please.

Mayor Allison Dennington.

Yay.

Vice Mayor Terry Cronin.

I'm sorry, what happened? I'm doing a roll call vote. Roll call vote. Oh, I thought I had the gavel.

Nope, anybody can ask for a roll call vote.

Is that right?

Anyone can ask for a roll call vote.

Is that right? Okay.

Anyone can ask for a roll call vote, right? Mr. Nate?

so i said nay can anyone ask for a role anyone can ask for a role yes yes okay thank you thank you um so vice mayor terry cronin so i said nay thank you thank you commissioner anna butler nay commissioner tim reed yay commissioner sherry corey no all right thank you uh okay uh um i don't think we need to do we need to vote on that other one or we if we did take a vote on that amendment we'd be able to potentially

We didn't take a vote on that other one, but you read the amended language.

Yeah, so my understanding is everyone is in agreement with that.

So is there any other questions for, any other issues anyone wants to talk about on this?

I had one quick thing that our receptionist asked me to ask you all. She says that we have had a lot more people asking for visitor parking passes.

and it's limited to a hundred and it's a hundred dollars per pass and she wanted to know if you all wanted to increase that even by like 25 or something like that so i do want to alert the commission to the fact that when this came up before like people are very opposed to us doing more and i'm i looked at i looked at our numbers and we like the year before we hadn't even sold anywhere neat we hadn't even sold 50 of them so i'd be interested to see how many they've actually sold but the more uh people are really opposed to selling too many of these uh visitor passes because the more you sell the less money we get at the parking areas and so um every time this has come up before i believe it has failed 5-0 on the commission in the two in the last three years i've been here so

Can I chime in real quick? I think it's 50 that's the cap, and we've sold out all 50 this year. I don't think we've, we don't buy 100, I think we buy 50. Did Tricia say 100?

Yeah, I thought it was 50 too. When I saw that 100 in there, because I believe that Mascaro, Tried to get it raised to $100, and that got voted down. Okay, well, I could be wrong then about the $100.

I'm not 100% either because I haven't sold them in a while. I haven't been up there, but I thought it was $50.

What happens is around Christmas and different types of people come in, and then they want to get a discount on it, and they want to get more, but... you know it's like no because i mean there's people that live here that cannot get a parking spot anywhere on friday night up here and so if you sell more of those what happens is people that go that don't live here don't pay taxes here they you know go there a lot and then there's residents can't even you know so that's even i would just say it's a can of worms on the matter madam mayor what why is the price set at a hundred dollars I know. I mean, I think it should be more, but...

I'm just wondering, how did you come up with that number? Anybody know?

Well, when it was originally...

When it was originally passed, there weren't guest passes, and this was before I was on the commission, and then there were, like, I believe it was Commissioner Runte, there were some people that said, oh, like, my mom comes, or different people, it would be nice to be able to have a guest pass, but a lot of people were opposed, because people were opposed to the parking in general, but then are fine with it, But because the more, you know, more guest passes you sell. So they they're like had a limited number and it's essentially first come first serve. And when it first came out, I mean, it was almost kind of like for people that live here, but that have, say, a mom that comes that watches their kids. It's like run in there and get it real quick because they've got it the full you pay the 50 bucks. But we don't really want a lot of people getting guest passes because it reduces our revenue because there's a lot of people that come through and come here a lot, maybe that live in the Atlantic. And yeah, now what you I mean, you might what we might want to do is at the end of the year, if we have ones that haven't sold, we could do a pro rated to just get some money before the end of the year. But like I just I would say it's a can of worms. If you're going to raise the you're going to add more and do check if it's 50 or 100, because I actually think it's 50. I think we voted down doing 100.

Okay, yeah, I'll check the number but I'll take the feedback.

Yeah, I was I would suggest we don't increase the number that we go with whatever we've been doing here popular why not increase the prices what I'm getting at.

I mean I think it's a yeah.

I mean I think it was based on what I understand is it's based on like the market price of what the other other towns do but My understanding is that there are people from south of us that are the unincorporated Melbourne Beach that like to use our parks and things like that.

And so they're the ones who are buying it.

I got you.

Yeah. But I mean, I think I think that's why we picked the 50 number and did it first come first serve, because we really it was like we wanted to have a possibility for people that really are going to use it a bunch, but don't live here to be one of those first 50 people to get it. But if you don't and that way, people that live here and know if you want to go in for your mom or whoever, But if we open it up more, our revenue is going to go down, and we are relying on this revenue. Even if you looked at the numbers, this August is less than last August, even though we raised the rates or whatever. So I just, yeah. um and on that point we you might need to check you might have a scrivener's error in there if the um if the past vote was uh in the pa where it was just 50 and not 100 because yeah we'll check it out yeah okay so should we move on okay what's the next one i thought we're on finance report but you guys said that there's reserve fund policy yeah where is that it's in new business page 47. okay sorry i'm out of order oh that's right because it got moved around sorry thank you uh okay 40 um go ahead mr knight so 47 page 47 reserve fund policy

Mr. Knight?

Okay, sorry, I didn't know if you heard me. I didn't know if you heard me.

Okay, yeah, so this is just a draft reserve fund policy that was directed to do. it has numbers in there that i've sort of put in there sort of as filler but ultimately those numbers such as the 20 of the total fund balance revenue and the 10 in the unassigned fund revenue five percent in the emergency reserve those are all numbers that you all would have to make that determination um But really, it's just a basic reserve fund policy that just would provide that you have to set aside this certain amount of money and allocate this certain amount of money to these specific funds.

And this doesn't require an ordinance, this is just a policy, like a financial policy that we can put up?

Yes, yes, so it's not an ordinance.

So would this go into a chapter in like the employee manual in like the finance, or does this go in, do we have a set of fund policies? I mean, policies has been my thing forever. I know y'all are gonna be working or are working. Yes, yes, we'll be working. Would this be something that goes in the administrative, like the policies, the employment policy,

or a separate financial policy are you consolidating that what's the status it's probably going to be in the administrative okay part um and i have to look at all of them i haven't had a chance to do that but i will look at that um because there are some financial policies there are some so it would probably be then in you think in it would get in one of those yes yes absolutely absolutely and i had put a memo together uh just on some of the government finance officers association some of the recommendations i don't know if you had a chance to look at them um two months is the minimum like the bare minimum that's the state requirement right right so um they're saying six to nine months um for vulnerable coastal areas that's us and so i just put in you know for a context six months would equal 2.56 million uh we're at a a little bit above three million right now so we're kind of in that spot between six and nine months so um you know i think we're in in decent standing but you know if you want to you know put that in the policy you can what you would like that to be um And the one-time outlays such as disasters and also fluctuations in our operating expenditures are some of the things to consider. And then also the replenishment, how if you want to pay yourself back, And then if it falls below the ascribed level, what you want to do. So those are some things to discuss as well. And then for the time period of that replenishment, do you want it to be three years? Do you want it to be one year? And then there are some factors with that too. So I put that all in there for you to think about in this discussion.

So is it typically done with always with a percentage of the general fund expenditure, even in each category, or is it done with a figure, a dollar figure?

usually it's well from what I saw with you know the research and especially with the GFOA they did it by months because you can change your I mean your revenue is going to change right your budgets are going to change every year so the you know but you could probably do it by a dollar figure if you want I mean but you probably would need to like ten years later you don't want the same dollar figure you had ten years ago

right so that's why they do it by by months as opposed to by a dollar figure right well in this draft it's percentages of general fund yeah expenditures so you're saying you're right saying more typical to specify a number of months there then well i mean 10 of your general fund expenditures would yeah would generally be about

like a little bit more than one month. I mean, because 12 months in the year and your expenditures, that's what you're spending.

Yeah. I mean, you could do it that way as a percentage of your expenditures because your expenditures and revenues are supposed to balance. Or you could do it by month.

I think they give it in guidance of you should have at least X number of months, but then I do think the policies usually have it in a percentage.

I think you did it right is what I'm trying to say. But should you have it a percentage of... the money that you're spending or the money you're collecting?

Well, the budgets are supposed to balance, so your expenditures and your revenue are going to be the same.

So wouldn't it be in the beginning of when you receive the revenue?

don't understand that yeah if you did it on your revenue you would actually get it when you got the money from it'd be a lot more though you'd actually be putting a lot it might be great hey change it change it to change it to your um like your but if you changed it to revenue you're saying it would still be the same because you have to balance revenue to expenditures but it would be the same number yeah i mean

Your expenditures, it depends on the end of the year. It could change, it could change. But when you put the budget together at the beginning of the year, they're supposed to balance and they do balance.

But when you're getting the money, that should be when you put a percentage in there to, okay, we're getting the money and so we're gonna put this in reserve because then if it's needed, somebody could come along and say, we need to take money from the reserves and that's when the other part of this kicks in.

well if it helps if you put it i'm just going to tell you that if you did it on revenue i would be really happy because you guys would kind of be require it i'm just there's a because of the way fund accounting goes you'd be setting a big trap for yourself i'm just trying to tell you i'm fine with it i've changed it to revenue so if that helps you to know that you're probably not going to want to do it the way they have it written on general fund expenditures because your expenditures are different from what your revenue is and your general fund expenditures

It would be a lot more.

Yeah, that's if you did it a lot more, it would require you to put a lot more in reserve. You would not be able to fund the fire department if you did it that way is what I'm going to say. But. Go ahead, that'd be great.

No, I was just asking the question.

Yeah, I think we're establishing minimums. It doesn't mean we can have more, right? And so, right, then that we're categorizing and establishing a minimum in those categories, so.

Well, personally, I feel that the geographic zone of equal to six months is where we should be instead of two months.

Yeah, I agree with that as well.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree too.

I had a couple of questions or comments relating to the withdrawal and replenishment part. So I was looking for something that where for any withdrawals that we're doing from the reserve funds for whatever reason, right? that we also part of the process is that we also have to have a vote yes or no on whether those funds would would be replenished and if there's a yes vote then you know the terms of that replenishment would need to be you know codified and Perhaps that's it will be done through a resolution

Yeah, like they would be repaid, like a repayment.

We decide we're going to do, we vote on to pull it out of reserves. At the same time we vote, are we going to replenish those? Do we want to replenish those funds? And if we say yes, then we decide, you know, when and how much, and if we're going to charge ourselves interest or not, just to, you know, so that it's in there and then it's, Because this identity becomes a part of the budget action then.

So you would want to expand more on this bullet point on page 48 where it talks about replenishment?

Yeah.

Right. And that it would method the interest rate It said oh and then by resolution that there would be a resolution.

Yeah, I'm sorry If it that would be a resolution that seems I'd be away. Yeah, I can know what we did And then so just just so there's the formality of yes, we decided we're gonna tap reserves Yes, or no, we're not gonna we're gonna pay ourselves back. And if yes What is what is the plan for doing that?

And Mr. Knight, you put in there that it should be within one to three years generally, the replenishment?

Yeah, that's sort of what's done. Sort of the standard, yes.

That's a wide time frame, one to three years.

Provides for flexibility depending on what situation you're in, yeah. And again, it's up to you. I mean, these time frames are plugged in there. And it's what I found is that's what it generally is, that time frame.

I mean, it also has to do with economics. If you're in a recession, you may need a longer time to, you know, pay yourself back, you know, because you need to take care of immediate expenditures. So that's why.

So you have the I'm sorry, we have in the draft here, we have you have a total fund balance reserved. AND THEN YOU HAVE AN UNASSIGNED PORTION OF THAT TOTAL BALANCE. AND THEN THERE'S THE EMERGENCY RESERVE. AND THEN A THIRD, A CAPITAL RESERVE. WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO DO THAT STRUCTURE. WE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO HAVE A CAPITAL RESERVE. OR IS GFOA SAY, YES, YOU HAVE A CAPITAL RESERVE IN YOUR PLAN?