City Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay, it is four o'clock. I will call the September 14th, 2026 Linus City Commission meeting to order. First, I look to staff for confirmation of the Kansas Open Meeting Act required notice has been properly provided.

Yes.

Thank you. May we have a roll call?

Mayor Hoppeck.

Here.

Commissioner Davis.

Here.

Commissioner Lankowitz.

Here.

Commissioner Remp.

Here.

Before we do the Pledge of Allegiance, there's something I'd like to share with everyone. Last Friday, it was an honor for me to be a part of the 25th 9-11 Remembrance Ceremony last Friday at the new Fire Station No. 4. September 11, 2001, showed us both the depths and tragedy. and the strength that can be found within community. There's a quote I saw while reading about September 11th, and I'd like to share that at this time, and it reads, the best way to honor those lost on 9-11 is to be the people we were on 9-12. During our moment of silence, let us remember the victims of 9-11 and give thanks to the first responders who run toward danger daily as others run away. Will those who are able please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance and a moment of silence. Thank you. Okay, that will bring us to item 3.1.

Item 3.1, consider approval of resolution number 26-8369, appointing Gary Norris to the vacancy on the city commission.

Yeah, thank you. Commissioners, you'll recall at the end of the last meeting, we ended the meeting with the selection of appointment of a vacancy on the city commission. And in part of that packet, we said that the city would prepare a resolution formalizing that for the record. These resolutions actually just make it much easier to go back in time through the commission minutes and meetings and identify what took place. So this resolution simply fills in the blank that you guys filled at the last meeting. and just kind of creates a record of the appointment. I can answer any questions you might have. That's what we're doing here.

Any questions?

I have a couple of comments, but no questions.

Does he have the oath administered as part of this, or is it different for appointments?

We didn't include it on the actual agenda, but after the resolution is adopted, we would swear him in. It doesn't change the vote from last meeting. It's the resolution just memorializing when his term ends and things like that.

Commissioner Rupp. I was just gonna mention that we as a group, we as a commission should, we know that we had 33 people had or filled out expressions of interest. That should kind of tell us something right there. And out of the 33 people, Gary Norris was one of the nominees, and I think Gary would make a fine commissioner. But I do have to mention, and I think everybody in the room knows, that when it came time to make that selection out of 33, it took exactly 11 seconds. And that was just surprising, but that's my comments, and that's it. Okay, do I have a motion? I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion that we go ahead and approve Gary Norris to the vacancy created by Jerry Ivey on the city commission.

Second. We have a motion and a second to approve resolution number 26-8369, appointing Gary Norris to the vacancy of the city commission. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, with that, I will turn it over to Nikki.

All right, Mr. Norris, if you would please step down to the front here.

If you would please raise your right hand and repeat after me.

I do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Kansas and faithfully discharge the duties of the Office of City Commissioner

I'm the office of city commissioner.

In and for the city of Salina, Kansas.

In and for the city of Salina, Kansas. So help me God. So help me God. All right.

Welcome aboard, Commissioner Norris. Thank you.

Have a seat.

Thank you.

Okay. That will bring us to item 3.2.

Probably doesn't get to speak on that.

Ms. Packman.

Item 3.2 is to conduct a public hearing and consider three separate actions to adopt the 2027 budget.

Okay, I will open the public hearing.

Good afternoon, Mayor and Commissioners, Debbie Pack, Director of Finance. The City Commission's been discussing the 2027 budget during staff-presented study sessions since June 1st of 2026. Due to anticipated slight revenue increases, departments were instructed to keep their operating expenses at the same level as the 2026 budget level. Since the inception of the revenue neutral rate in 2022, the City of Salina has levied revenue neutral rate levies three out of the five past years. The other two years, one year the City Commission levied the same rate as the previous year, and one year they levied a rate lower than the previous year. The currently proposed mill levy rate is 0.884 mills less than the revenue neutral rate from 2022. On July 13th, the City Commission directed staff to prepare the 2027 budget exceeding the revenue neutral rate of 27.526 and to prepare the budget using the mill rate of 29.568, which is one mill over the city's current mill levy of 28.568. The final proposed budget excluding transfers and cash reserves included total expenditures of $160,964,775 as compared to the total budget in 2026 of $157,209,033. I would note of this $160 million, $50 million of that is the budget for the groundwater remediation fund. The overall 2027 budget for all funds is about 2.3% higher than the adopted 2026 budget. The final proposed budget establishes the mill levy of 29.568 mills which levies approximately $13,508,159 in property tax for the general fund and $33,372,476 for the bond and interest fund for a total of $16,880,634 in property tax. Salary projections included in the 2027 budget include a 1.5% cost of living adjustment effective January 1, 2027, and a maximum merit increase of 1.5%. Also on today's agenda items is the adoption of the comprehensive fee schedule for 2027. These changes were reviewed with City Commission on June 1, 2026. EMS fees are being increased to capture Medicare rates and includes increases between 2.94 and 11.11%. After seven years with no increases, city clerk fees were evaluated and have increases between 5 and 10%. Sanitation monthly service fees are proposed to be increased to $21.75 per month. The drive-through recycling fee is increasing to $1.75 per month. Water and wastewater rates will be brought forward at a later time. The annual budget provides authorization for the city to use resources for the operations of the city. The four action items today are the public hearing, where we will take comment from the public, and then consideration of resolution 268370 to levy property tax rate exceeding the revenue neutral rate, The consideration of ordinance number 2711296, appropriating the 2027 annual budget. And consideration of resolution number 278367, adopting the 2027 comprehensive fee schedule for the city of Salina. At this time, I would stand for any question or comments.

Mayor I would like to just make a couple of comments and kind of do a quick overview of some slides that I prepared This is obviously a culmination of a lot of work with the city We actually start this process in in March April timeframe with all of our departments and as Debbie said, you know This is a difficult process because you're not even into your 26 budget before you're trying to plan for your 27 budget. So we look backwards and kind of make revenue projections, trying to figure out where we think we need to be for the coming year. And so as we started this process, we really, our goal and objective that I provided or gave to the staff The department's was to leave our operational budget alone, basically carry forward our 26 numbers to 27 for our operational budget. And so the only increases that you see in this budget have to do with personnel, with salaries. And that, as approved by the city commission, was a 1.5% cost of living increase and a 1.5% merit increase. I did just want to kind of provide a little bit of historical perspective on the city's mill rate. So if you can see the chart that's listed there, our mill rate has been around the 29 to 30 range for the last several years. And even with a one mill increase in 2026, it will be lower than the mill rate that we had in 2019. If you want to go to the next slide. And just a little bit of information for the public. As you know, the city of Salinas property tax is really only a portion of your property taxes that you pay. So the biggest percentage of property taxes goes to the school. And then the next is the county. And then we're about 20 cents on every dollar. And we anticipate that that will stay the same for the coming years. Next slide. And this is a chart that's been provided to the city commission in study sessions over several years. This kind of shows a division of each taxing entity and what our total mill levy is. So you can see that since 2020, I think that's 2022, The actual total mill rate or what people are paying in property taxes has remained pretty well flat for the last several years, even though there have been some adjustments from different entities. Ours has gone down a little bit. The county's has gone up a little bit. School has made some adjustments over the years. So you can see it's remained pretty much constant over that time frame. Go to the next slide. then i just wanted to to provide a little bit of perspective from other communities across the state so as you can see i pulled the top 25 cities by population i added mcpherson in there just because it's kind of our neighbor pretty close i mean if you look at that list the city of salina on the on the left is our city mill levy so you can see that we're 10th out of the top 25 cities in in lowest mill rate and if you add in the total mill rate we drop a little bit we're we're in the top 12 in terms of our total tax levy to the community. And if you'll go to the next slide. The next slide, I pulled out the Kansas City area cities. It's really hard to compare Kansas City area to the city of Salina. They don't have the same types of services that we do. And they also have much higher valuations. They just have lots more commercial property and higher property values. So if you take out the top cities or the kansas kansas city area cities we're really number two in the state in terms of the city mill levy so hayes has a little bit lower mill rate and then if you look at the total levy for the entire all the all the taxing entities we are we're number four so a little bit behind wichita and lawrence and hayes there so our property taxes while i know people are concerned about the rate we have tried to remain stable over the last several years and we we really are if you compare us to the top 25 cities and you exclude Kansas City, we're really pretty competitive for everything that's outside of the Johnson County, Wyandotte County area. So just wanted to provide a little bit of perspective on this and then thank all the department heads and everybody that has put in work towards this budget. We think it's a good budget, and we'll be able to operate and continue to provide services to the community for years to come. And happy to answer any questions about any of this as well. And Debbie has the real answers. So a lot of credit to Debbie. She's been really great. A lot of work happens behind the scenes with Debbie putting together this budget.

I'll start to my right here. Any questions, comments? If the light's on, it's working. Thank you.

Is the porch light on? Yeah. I'm a data geek, and I did some analysis on my own. using AI and other sources it's hard not to be able to garner a lot of data these days but I was interested in the city mill levy itself and of course we pay taxes to all the entities but I just wanted to track the city mill levy for a while and compare it to other municipalities and I looked at the top 20 cities and in the state and compared an average home in each of those cities and the average home according to this one analysis I did was 230,000 could be a drop high I'm not sure but it had the average home of all the top 20 cities in Kansas and And then it collected it gave an average of how much taxes each household paid We came in at for the city mill levy only eight hundred and two dollars for that for that particular municipal levy. And so out of 20 cities that I looked at, Salina was number 19 in city mill levy as it was actually charging tax dollars on an average home. So anyway, just one other perspective.

One quick, how does this set us with our

budget we anticipate this covers all of our budgeted items with the final budget for the general fund does come in short about a hundred and fifty nine thousand the budgeted net revenue net loss is about a hundred and fifty nine thousand dollars to a loss which we knew when we went into this that we were looking at a deficit but this gets us pretty close And as we know with projections and estimates, we don't know where that number will come in.

And generally speaking, we don't spend everything that we request on the expenditure side. We typically come in lower than what we have requested on the expenditure side. So that's something that we track every month. We look at where we're at and we'll do our best to make sure that we're underneath that dollar amount.

We do have a little wiggle room for the unexpected occurrences. Yes. other than a river getting log jammed up again or something huge. Correct, correct. Okay, on the left.

Comments or questions? Go ahead.

Starting out with, well, I think either one of you could answer the question. And again, well, I guess I'm not the newbie anymore, but second to the newbie. Commissioner Norris might know the answer to this question. I do not. Jacob or Debbie, total levy, does that include the county and airport and library and that's the whole enchilada? Yes. Okay. And Debbie, for you, Sales tax revenue, do we have June, July, or August by chance? Probably not August.

We have August, well they're not August collections because we collect two months in arrear behind. Okay. So we do have our August numbers and currently for 2026, we're up about 5% over last year.

Is that year to date?

Some of the comparisons I've seen out in the public were a comparison from July to August, which was a much higher number. But we typically track year to date this year compared to year to date last year.

Okay.

And currently we're about 5% up.

Okay, and do you know off the top of your head perhaps July and August, kind of where they were? And what I'm getting at, and I know I talked, Jacob about this earlier. I know these storms, while they created a lot of hardship, they also create a lot of economic activity for our community. And all those people are staying, they're eating, they're drinking, they're doing a lot of things in our community besides working. And I gotta believe in that. And shoot, out south, Where they sell automobiles, I gotta believe they're having a record year with all the hail inventory they had to get rid of and replacing it with new inventory. I would think we'd be kind of a banner year in sales tax. I know it says it's unpredictable, but I also saw it's 35% of our revenue.

Yes.

So do we have any? Any idea what July or August were up over the previous year?

We don't know what the actual collection in July and August are yet because we don't get those numbers from the state until two months after those numbers. We would anticipate whenever the storm was. I did look at those numbers, and the number that really surprised me, and I've had this conversation with Jacob, is when you're talking about roofers and things like that, they don't always buy their materials in the city of Salina. If I'm a roofer, I may order my supplies from Kansas, but what I did see is our use tax almost doubled in that month that we did that last month that we did see. It's not a huge number. It's $18,000. But I would anticipate that with more people in construction and things like that, that we'll see those numbers go up. But sales tax is very cyclical. it's high in the beginning of the year because of the holiday sales because we're two months behind it usually dips a little bit for a few months goes up a little bit more in may and june because of people getting their tax refunds and then it kind of drops off towards the end of the year because we don't get those collections from holidays until the next year so it's kind of hard to know what what i've seen historically is that we'll be at our highest In June or July, and then that number could drop off a little bit. It doesn't tank, but sometimes we'll drop off a little bit. But right now, we're about 5% over what we collected in 2025.

Okay, thank you. Another question, and kind of maybe the elephant in the room that would come up later, but Jacob, last budget I saw, we were like, We had a sure fall of, I believe, roughly three quarters of a million. 700,000 and change, maybe? Was that correct? Last... On the budget, on the initial budget, I remember.

Yeah, when we started, if we had kept it revenue neutral, we were looking at about a $700,000 shortfall. Okay.

That's correct. Well, where I was going with the elephant in the room is the, apparently we have five million extra lying around last year that we moved to the river renewal project. That was extra money a year ago. Things have changed. There's no consideration for bringing any of that back. I'm not against what was, I think, billed as a scaled down river project, but anything I've seen doesn't point in that direction. I don't... I have friends that are friends of the river, but I also want to be friends with the taxpayers.

So we haven't expended that money yet. I mean, it is just set aside for the river project. So at a future date, if we wanted to move that money back to the general fund, that certainly would be an option. I would say with property taxes, as you know, it's the most stable form of revenue that we have. Sales tax goes up and down. You never know whether you're going collect more than what you collected last year. We've been very fortunate. We've done very well in sales tax over the last four, five, six years. And that's really helped us to stabilize that property tax. But as you know, everything's getting more expensive for us as the government, just like it is for the taxpayer as well. So our insurance rates are going up. Everything that we do, we have to We have to pay for it. So the intent here was to during this budget cycle, and we've had lots of conversations about this over the last four or five months, was to keep the operational budget flat. I mean, so even though we're going to pay more for fuel likely in 2027, that just means we have to tighten our belt in different. in different areas across the board. So that money still exists. It's in a fund balance. I mean, it's in a fund. It's there. If we needed it to bring back to the general fund, we certainly we could do that. You know, when we had the conversation about property tax increases, we provided an option to the city commission that would have held the property tax at the revenue neutral level. We provided three or four different options. One was keep it at revenue neutral, one was keep the tax property tax mill rate the same and one was to increase it by one mill. At the time the city commission gave us the direction to move forward with a one mill increase and that's what we presented here today.

Okay well I think The community as a whole has a different opinion on tightening the belt versus the city's tightening the belt. I mean, we're still putting Cheryl's on roads as far as I've seen where the new firehouse has a very fancy reader board, electronic reader board with the monument sign. And I just see opportunities where I think we could save hundreds. But we have, I guess we have to, I know we have to look long term, but these are tough times. I was talking with a taxpayer a couple weeks back, and she was worried about her elderly mother being able to stay in their home because of property taxes and insurance going up. And I know from my own experience, probably 90% of that increase is insurance. I don't know if anybody else has ran into that, but I talked to my insurance guy about it and I'm looking at options because I haven't had a claim in 20 years and my insurance went up by a full third, full 33% increase. And that just seems crazy to me. Last thing I'll mention is property values, as I read, go up about 4% every year. If property values went up by 4%, if sales tax collections are going up by 5%, if fee schedules are all increasing, I would think that we could make it work. That's my thoughts.

So I will mention on the property taxes, while the valuation has gone up, the city has not requested a dollar more from property taxes than what we collected two years ago. So we, it's not really, we set the mill levy, but we're actually saying we need X dollar amount in order for us to operate. And so that's where the mill levy is kind of backed into. So even though assessed valuations have gone up 4%, if we leave the mill levy the same or we drop the mill levy as we have for the last two years, we don't collect any more money on that.

That's the theory of the revenue neutral rate is that your property tax revenue does not go up a penny if you go with the revenue neutral rate.

And we, quite frankly, we've been the only entity that's done the revenue neutral rate over the last, we've done it three out of five years and we left our mill levy, we left our mill levy consistent one year and we lowered it below the previous year, the year before. So any of your increase in property tax that's happened over the last five years hasn't come from the city of Salina. It's come from other entities in that mix. Now, it's been pretty consistent over time in terms of the total mill value, but those assessed valuations would cause that to go up a little bit. OK, thank you.

And I would respond to the $5 million in the 20, I think you're talking about the 2026 budget or the 2025 budget? There was two transfers, one in each of those budgets. One was for the river renewal. The $5 million for 2026 was for the fire station.

The river renewal dollars.

I would also note that in each of those years beyond the $5 million, the city was using fund balance to balance out their budget. In 2026 or five with the log jam and that $5 million, we had a $7.9 million deficit. So we used part of our fund balance as our operating. And from a financials perspective, using fund balance for recurring expenses that exponentially grow as you give your people raises which is about seventy percent of your cost of the city's cost as you give raises to those they exponentially grow every time you do that so it's pretty dangerous and it goes very quickly if you start utilizing that excess fund balance for things that aren't one time things because we're not getting additional revenue. The revenue that came in was a one time we had a big influx of something. So as I've mentioned in study sessions that we have to be very careful in taking advantage of that fund balance in ongoing expenses because those expenses exponentially grow every time we do a budget, if that makes sense.

Well, yes and no. Okay. I mean, overall it makes sense, but I'll be done.

Part of the reason that our fund balance went up was during the COVID time frame there was we were really conservative, and we kind of cut all projects, and the revenue from sales tax and that sort of thing actually didn't change. It continued to go up. So our fund balance did grow. over time, and there were a lot of communities that took money from American Rescue Plan dollars, and they started new programs with those. And so now, if you see on the news, communities like Topeka and Manhattan and other communities are facing big, big seven to $10 million budget deficits, where we're talking about a couple hundred thousand dollars here and there. So we've been very, very, in terms of trying to make sure that we're expending those dollars and not growing, you know, the overall budget, we've been very consistent in trying to spend the additional dollars or extra dollars on one-time things. And quite frankly, like the $5 million that we're spending for the fire station, that money has allowed us to borrow less, which means that we don't have to increase the property tax in order to to pay for those projects. So that's where we've put our cash has really been to try and buy down things like interest rates and make sure that we are sustainable for the long term.

And you have to keep a certain fund balance to help your bond rating, too. I mean, you always got to remember about your bond rating. So we're always, you know, being... aware of that plus I think you know we do they still have some fund balance and I don't know what that's going to do over the next year or two but you know we have some we have quite a few projects to do whether it's the East Magnolia Road or the the Schilling and Ohio intersection we may be able to use some again fund balances to help lower the amount of debt which saves us money over the long term one of the documents and I thought I brought all my because we've had, what, six study sessions on this. If I remember right, because going revenue neutral, you do not capture that additional growth in value on properties. And if I remember right, I don't remember if it was over the two, three-year period, but if we would have just captured that growth, we would have had another, what, 1.2 million? or something. I can't remember. It was a fairly substantial number. Yeah, it's in that ballpark. Yeah. So by keeping revenue neutral, we haven't gained that over the year. That's kind of why the 1% this year kind of made sense. All four commissioners agreed to do that during the study session. I think, you know, the city's done a – we've tried to do a lot of things to be good stewards, you know, with the money. I know if you look at, you know, the Bill Burke, we did a $4 million turf project, and we used transient guest tax. We increased that. So we did that without any expense to the taxpayer. We've done a lot of private public partnerships that have allowed us to do a lot of things without having as much burden on the taxpayer. So I think we've made a lot of good decisions and I know nobody likes to see their taxes go up and this is the first time we've significantly done it in five years. And the other thing that we're concerned about is if you've been following the press, the state of Kansas is considering some adjustments to property tax. And there's a concern that that could affect us in the future. So that was another reason.

Yeah, that's one thing that we did talk about quite a bit during the budget process was that, you know, at this point there's going to be a new governor. And I do anticipate that we'll have some sort of change to kind of the rules for how we do property taxes. I think there will be some limits. Right now, I mean, we're really not limited. We have the revenue neutral rules where you have a public hearing when we have to have this discussion that we're having today. But we still aren't really limited. And I think that there will be some sort of limit put in place in the coming years that could really change the way that we have to manage through our budget.

Well, one of the other things we did that was advantageous is we did the RFP for banking services, and we took our interest income from $300,000 to, I'm going to use the $3 million. So that's quite a few mills if we're looking at property tax. So that helped us to keep our mill levy down. So, again, when we compare to other areas, and people always want to talk about McPherson, and I did my analysis too, Our mill rate is 53.238. Ours is going to be 29. So there's kind of like what Commissioner Norris was saying. People say, well, we'll move somewhere where taxes are less. Well, I can give you about 10 or 12 places not to move. So anyway, I think we've done a good job. And this is just one of those times that we really feel like we need to do something besides revenue neutral. Are there any other comments from the commission? If not, we will open it up to the public. Please give your name and limit your comments to three minutes.

Jim Vint, Solana, Kansas. So when I look at my taxes, it all comes out of the same pocket. Property taxes, sales tax. So when it came time for me to buy a car, I went to Wichita to buy a car. Because I would rather give my money, sales tax. Now, in Canada, I had to write another check when I came down here to get my tag. But still, I'd rather give my money to Wichita than here. So my comments are to the voters here. And... I would like to look at these following measurements. So compared to the median in Kansas, Celina ranks thus. Poverty, above state median. Unemployment, above state median. Median household income, or age, above state median. Medium household income, below state median. Holding a bachelor's degree or higher, below state median. Home ownership below state medium. And finally, home value to income. And that is a measure that looks at how many years income does it take to buy a house. In other words, how affordable is housing. And here, Salina is doing very well with a rating of one of the most affordable housing markets in Salina. Raising property taxes directly makes housing less affordable.

Could you could you face us so they can hear?

Well, I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to the people. I know the people on television. Well, people on television need to come down here in person then. So where does the money go? Well, speaking of financial stewardship, in November of 2024, The city commission gave $333,433 a direct cash giveaway to Kansas Bankers Technology, a company that provides tech support to bankers. So we're providing subsidies to bankers. You remember bankers, they were the ones that ran the economy off into the ditch back in 2024, or back in 28. And you know, one of the great things about being an old guy is that I can remember back when Rufus Nye was city manager. When he spoke to the City Commission, he stood up every single time.

I'm Lucille Sanderson-Salina. Jacob? Jacob, would you be so kind as to watch me while I'm speaking?

Because he keeps his head tipped down.

I know. But when people are up here talking, he's looking down, and I think I might need to buy him a neck brace. When you spoke about the merit raise, 1.5%, I believe I understood that correctly. On his salary, that really counts up there. But you go to the little people, the laborers, that doesn't mean a hell of beans. That doesn't count. And another thing, you're very popular here in Salina. You know why? East Coast is calling. What's going on in Salina? This river project. I have been retired for 20 years, and that was going on before that. That should tell you a story that is lost cause. You're never. I'll be in the grave pushing up lilies by the time you still will not have it done. Quit wasting our money this way. 20 plus years I work for the city. I've been retired 20 years. And while I was retired, before I retired, they were talking about, oh, it's going to be so grand. And here we blew a million dollars to Colorado for this cozy inn. You cannot admit that you've got a lost cause. My gosh, guys, a million dollars to Colorado, but yet you didn't have the money for that main that we were needing to do. Stop and use some brains. I can't understand you guys. Once before I said we need women up there. And don't you two guys, aren't you kind of into a business together? And if you are, you've gotten up many times because of conflicting results. That means Gary's going to have to get up and leave too. That means that's only three up there on the board. Now stop and start thinking like some smart people. And I don't know who is running you guys. He's not got Doug under his skin yet. But you three band together, and I don't know what. But you need to start changing your minds. Come on. A million dollars, 20-plus years, all that money spent, it's not gone anywhere. And here you're paying for the girls from the animal shelter. You're paying the attorney fee plus giving their wages. That's our money, not yours. Our money. Thank you.

Kristy Dixon, Salina, Kansas. Just to follow up what she said, I believe Monique, and I guess this is probably a question to Jacob, Monique has resigned her position at the shelter, but yet we're still keeping her on for the city of Salina.

Do you have any comments about the budget? Yes, I'm getting there.

I was just following up that. My next point is, so I want an answer for that. If you could email me, you have my email address. You've never used it to return, but please email me back. Thank you, Doug, for returning my emails. 3.2 is what we're currently on. currently on and comments were accepted. But how come on 3.1 we weren't able to comment? I'll let you get back with me on that one as well. Also, raising the taxes, where is the money for this $5,000 to $6,500 that we're offering people to move to Salina? What pot is that coming out of?

I know nothing about that.

I'm sure you don't.

We have no, do we have a- It's a chamber of commerce program. It's chamber of commerce.

Okay, well that's all I needed. I don't know. But you should know that because you're our mayor. I just know it's not us. You should know that. Yeah, who runs the Chamber of Commerce?

Yeah, I believe that that's a state grant that they received.

You should probably go to a Chamber of Commerce meeting. Check that out. Let's see. I still got a minute and a half. Let me see. I'm sure there was something else about this taxes. The elderly, we're going to scare them off and have them move away. So we're going to lose because they're not going to be able to pay for their property taxes, their house taxes. We're going to lose them. Whether it's move in with somebody that can't afford them, family, so there's houses that are gonna be up to sale which will benefit you. Let's see, I think we just need to think about our elderly and our young population that actually want to purchase a home. There's a lot of kids, I bought my first home at 21, thanks to Doug Rimp. You know, there's kids out there that do deserve home, and we keep raising their taxes, not giving them any raises. They're not going to be able to do anything, and so it's hard to be a productive citizen of the city of Salina when you ain't got shit around that's going to help you out any. But let's go ahead and get those people moved here for $5,000. Offer them that. Let's see. I don't think I have anything else. But Doug, I appreciate you emailing me back. That was very, very nice. My email's out there if you want to get me the answers to the rest of those, Mayor. I can get you the email address at Chamber of Commerce as well if you need it. All right. Thank you very much.

Susan Cooper, Celina. I've been very interested in the budget talk because you talk about being very conservative during COVID and you tightened your belt and you did all of this and you had money kind of left over. This is the time to be conservative. There were a lot of expenses that were incurred by citizens with the storms that came through. And the insurance rates are going to go up because when you have a storm like that and so many claims are entered, then the insurance always goes up. So I think now is the time to maybe put on the back burner roundabouts. The river project, which according to your city ordinance back in 17, you weren't supposed to take more than $1.3 million out of the general funds for the river project. And again, going back that that river project was defeated by the citizens in 2010. I don't know what more to say to make you understand it's hard out here. And saying that, oh, well, we only rank X amount in the state of Kansas for mill levies, that really doesn't cut it. I think it's time that you start looking at what is absolutely necessary, like water infrastructure replacement, versus what are wants. I found out that the river that you're so adamant about restoring now will have a lot of remediation because of being a dump site for a number of years. That's going to cost a lot of money. And I can tell you what. The $88 million that the river project has now grown to is not going to cover the remediation of that river bank that for so long you've used as a dump. So please reconsider what your wants are and consider what the needs are for the citizens of the city. Not just the... well to do but all citizens of the city. Thank you.

Thank you.

Peggy Ochoa, Salina, Kansas. I also am concerned about the property tax increase. I think there's a lot of people in our city that have enough problems with making ends meet and You know, they sit back, and I know people that haven't had a raise for five years at their job. And where are they supposed to get day by day they struggle to make ends meet, and year after year they don't get a raise. And, you know, while y'all may have enough money to pay those taxes, they don't. You know, they struggle to buy their food, to take care of their kids, to pay their medical bills. You know, their insurance rates are going to go up because of the storms. They have no control over that. They have no control over whether they get a raise or not. Basically, they can perform like crazy, but if their employer says it's not happening, You know, there's people out at Schwan's that don't get raises for years. And it used to be one of the best places in the world for money. But I know people that work there that haven't had one for a long time. So if you keep raising things and raising all these taxes, where's the little guy supposed to get his money? Where's he supposed to get his, okay, this year we might get to go on vacation, right? Because a lot of people take those for granted. Where are they going to do that? Where's the money going to come from? Because they're being taxed to death, and their rates are going to go up on their water, trash service. Where's all that going to come from? I know you guys can sit back, and you don't have those problems. There's people that live week to week, and they might have $2 left in their bank account. And that's the real issue. And like she said, um, where do we dig deep? Where do we cut like we did during Covid? Where do we pull that back? You know, pull those reins in to help your people. You're here to we pay you. You work for us. Pull those rains in and quit with the, we gotta spend, spend, spend, make the city beautiful. You know, downtown's beautiful. So be it for now. Rain it back and quit with the river fantasy because that's what it is right now. It's not gonna be what you want it to be for a long time. And show these people some reprieve and let them live a good life every day of their lives and not be strapped so much because We've got to pay more for all this stuff. Thank you.

Thank you.

Diana Frobenius. I have a question. You compared Celina. You compared Salina to several other 20 cities. Maybe it was you. And you did this in the context of explaining why our mill levy is going up, correct? Okay. My question is, do these other cities that you compared Salina to, do they have drinkable water? Do they have a working animal shelter? Are their roads in good shape? I guess I won't need my two minutes. Thank you.

Tony Johnson, Celina. I'm going to be coming to you from the standpoint of elderly people on fixed income, young families starting out, single mom and dads trying to juggle daycare and a job. First of all, I can appreciate the comparisons, and I understand that, but... I'm not worried about that because I don't live there. I live here. And I'm pretty sure you give me a few months of CORA requests and I can find you a lot of waste like we found here. I think one of the big things nobody's mentioned is that like 30% of the property in this town is tax exempt, basically. And part of that is, and thanks to you all here lately, we give away tax incentives, sales tax incentives. We hand that out like candy to anybody who wants to put a building up. I think we need to rein that in. But I also think, you know, it's hard to have sympathy for, Knowing what we've seen this last year and the waste we've seen, like I said, I pull credit card statements for city departments. The gentleman here on the front row, his bunch, they'll go to Sam's and load up for office snacks, you know. Where's ours? Mr. Bankston, when he retired or left doing work for the city, we spent about $800 out at Tony's Event Center to throw him a little farewell deal, and I'm totally against that. I mean, great guy, super great guy. He would talk to me after the meetings, but that's not on the responsibility of the taxpayer to have cake and ice cream for contract labor. You know, I'm sorry. I know he was here 40 years, but that's not why we pay taxes. We had a retirement party for a municipal judge here this spring, and me and Mr. Hennessey went nose to nose in his office about that because they shut the city office down. I went in there to get information, and it was closed. for a retirement party during the business hours. That's wrong. We're not paying taxes to throw retirement parties. You want a retirement party, get a job in the private sector. Uh, and the waste that we've seen, again, the gentleman on the front row helped, you know, prod this cozy in lawsuit that has just turned into a damn near a million dollar boondoggle over pain on a wall. Uh, Of course, ultimately, it was the commission's decision to pursue that. But like I said, it's hard to find sympathy for you guys being put in a tough spot because I don't recall ever hearing any direction given to the city manager to find us $400,000, find us $500,000. So anyway, thank you.

Benwin Hole Salina, $160 million budget. If you didn't go up one mill levy, we were gonna be $700,000 short. Pretty low percentage there, boys. I have found out today that we have $20 million in reserve from the general fund. The target amount is 15 million to get it down to. We have five million dollars to play with. Why isn't 700,000 coming out of that? Why isn't the 700 coming out of the five million that we got extra in the bank? The mill levy that you're wanting to go up, the one mill levy, is going to cost, and this is just on the city side, this is not county, this is not any of the others, USD 305, any of the others figured in. A person that has a $200,000 home is going to cost them another $32 in taxes. Well you know what guys, that doesn't sound like much in a year, but it really adds up. When you're on a fixed income and you don't have that $32. So usually people like that and people like me, people like those that live on a fixed income, whenever we are short, we will tighten our bill. We'll cut something out of luxury to make ends meet. That could be done here easily. If you wanna know where you can get $700,000 this year, I'll tell you right now where you can get it. Last year, we gave Arts and Humanities $735,000 towards the River Festival, an in-kind gift, we call it. Don't give it to them this year. Make them do their own budget for the River Festival. Problem solved, $700,000 gone. With that, I want to welcome Commissioner Norris to the Commission, even though we weren't able to speak after you were brought up, I want to tell you this, that even though you were not hired by us, you work for us. You work for us. And with your possible conflict of interest and being compromised because of the fact that you got $162,500 towards your newest business from the city, we are going to watch you very, very close on every decision that you make against the citizens of Slanik. Thank you. I can go just a little bit beyond that.

No, three minutes, no.

Just remember that, Mr. Norris.

Norman Manoslana for today. Cloning AI as artificial intelligence, also artificial insemination, so who are we? The web of the seed our commissioners weave. Private money, that's ghost money, follow the money trail. That's an issue in Manhattan, ghost money. Whose is it? If you want to look at a mess, look at the Love Canal.

No, Norm, we're talking about our budget.

That is part of the budget.

This isn't about, what you're saying is not dealing with our budget. You're spending money. Yeah, but what you're talking about is not our budget. If you want to handle that, that'd be under Citizens Forum. Okay.

Wait it out. I love it.

What is he waiting for?

Do you have anything to add, Norm?

I've got a minute and 58 seconds. All right.

You're better.

I'll try to cooperate with you once in a while, but not too often.

Appreciate it. Thank you, Norm.

Good afternoon. Shannon Russ, Salina Regional. Well, I was going to talk about health care. Salina, Kansas. I just wanted to kind of reiterate what Tony was saying. I can appreciate the studies with all the towns and cities around us too, but we don't live in McPherson. We don't live in Hays. I don't. We live in Salina. That's what I'm concerned about. You know, we talk about having to tighten our belts, personal experience, and I don't want to sound like I'm not privileged. I do own my own home. I'm fortunate. I work in health care. I'm paid well. But, you know, a couple weeks ago, I took a vacation this year because at some point I think we have to have our mental health too, and when we work hard and give to others and stuff, sometimes we need a little break. Had a cancer scare in the family, so I thought we're gonna schedule this vacation. Well, lo and behold, my air conditioner went out. So guess what, guys? I didn't have air conditioning. 100 degrees, and I know that's not your problem, but I'm just saying I had to tighten my belt. I made the decision to take a nice vacation. I suffer the consequences. No AC, suck it up. Had a fan, so great. I worry about the elderly too that live on a fixed income. You know, I look forward to retirement, but I'm not so sure I'll ever see retirement. But I do know this. The one thing that keeps me in Salina is my mother. Hope she doesn't leave anytime soon, but when she's gone, I'm gone. um no i'm just one person but i will not live here um also my mom made a good point too she said you know we're talking about raising rates on the water and everything and trash well i think maybe a bunch of citizens just need to change their trash service and maybe we won't use the city's trash service what about all that income so just thoughts thank you thank you

Okay, if there's no one else, I'll bring it back to the commission for action. I guess, first of all, I'll close. Oh, okay.

Good evening, Anita Popelka, Slina. I'm here tonight because I believe we need to have an honest conversation about the taxes. Most of us work hard for what we have. We pay our bills. We take care of our families and try to plan for our future. Every time taxes go up, it takes a little more out of our budget and away from things we need or want because you guys want to do your thing. I believe our community and our government should live within their means just as we have to live within our means. When a family expenses come too high, they can't demand our neighbors to pay because I want to swim and pool in my backyard. We can't demand our neighbors to pay for that because that's something I want. We have to look at our budget and we have to decide. What is necessary? What can wait and what can be set aside? Government should be held to the same standard before asking taxpayers for another dollar. We should be asking some important questions like can we eliminate waste kind of like the cozy in? I mean that's a lot of money. If you're going to spend that kind of money, I just assume you see paying the kids' lunches off at schools. A lot of them have balances. But we're suing a cozy end. Before asking, let me see. Like, can we eliminate waste and unnecessary spending? Tom has laid out a plan, but I bet none of you have even looked at it. It's a good plan. He's a banker, just like you. What's going on? Raising taxes should not be the first solution every time we get in a financial challenge. We need to remember that taxpayers are facing challenges of their own. The cost of groceries, utilities, insurance, everybody's been talking about the storm. Everybody's deductibles are going up, double and triple. Just everyday necessities continue to put pressure on household budgets and for people living on fixed incomes. Even small tax increases can make a big difference. If we continue raising taxes without addressing the underlining spending, eventually there will be a point where families and businesses will simply not be able to afford the burden. So tonight I am asking you commissioners to do something simple and important. Respect the taxpayers. And before asking the people, the community to pay money, make sure every dollar we are already paying is being used responsible. And I'd like to add, they were just talking about you getting all that money. I have a business out of my home and my taxes just keep going up. I pay commissioners. Can't even think of the word. I pay extra taxes because I have a business in my home. I need a new air conditioner. Can you guys help me? Can I come to this meeting and ask you guys to help pay for my new air conditioner? Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, Karen Balthasar Slina. I want to know about the budget too because I worked for the city 20 years and retired. One time I got a cost of living raise and after 10 years there were no more raises and people weren't making then what they're making now and I can only imagine what this raise It's going to cost the city more than anyone needs. I live on Medicare and my savings and such, but my budget is not going up like your guys's is. And I really think, let's think of the elderly. There's no factories coming in here. Yeah, I'm a person that's great because they have factories. People can work. We have Walmart, Tony's, Kubota. That's all we have. Look for something to help us.

Jess White, Celina. Okay, so I know we're sitting here discussing all of this stuff and we've got all the ups and downs, but what I would like to ask you guys is have we completed a true gap analysis of where the money we already collect is going, how they interact, and where the opportunities for saving or additional revenue might be being missed? So just because we're exceeding the neutral revenue rate, it doesn't mean that the city's being irresponsible. Cost increase, infrastructure ages, and employees need to be paid competitively. But when taxpayers are being asked to carry a larger burden, I believe the standard of analysis should become higher as well. Before the conversation becomes simply, how much revenue do we need? We should be asking, where are the gaps? Where are we spending more money in separate areas that are actually addressing different pieces of the same problem? Where is the duplication between program departments, organizations, or outside contracts? Where are the resources already available in the community that are not being fully utilized? Where are we paying repeatedly for the downstream consequences of a problem instead of addressing the original barrier? Where are the city assets or programs underutilized? And where could an investment in one area reduce expenditures somewhere else? A traditional budget tells us how much money goes into each fund. A gap analysis asks what happened between those line items. And that distinction matters. So one area affects the other. And I keep coming up here, and I'm going to keep saying the same thing, and I'm getting ready to submit a formal proposal to you all. One problem becomes an interconnected problem. Somebody might have a problem, you know, they need a job, but they could take the job, but they can't find daycare or they can't find anything like transportation, something like that. So why not work on finding ways to connect those people so that we could allow people to bring in more money and look at the other ways instead of just cutting budgets or stopping projects or raising taxes. It's not that cut and dry. So, I don't know. Before asking the community for more money, have we fully examined the money resources, assets, partnerships, and funding opportunities we already have, if they're being used as effectively as possible? Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, if there's no other comments, I will close the public hearing and bring it back to the Commission for action. We have three items.

I'd just like to make a comment. You know, there's a reference to us continuing to raise taxes. We've only raised them once in five years. Well, you talk about your expenses going up. When that windstorm came through, the city's expense just went. You think our insurance premium's not going up next year? You think that we're not going to have to take money from somewhere to pay the deductible on all the damage that the wind caused? This is a house or a business as well, and its income is tax money. Everyone involved is a taxpayer. We pay taxes as well, and I've never met a taxpayer who Woke up April 15th and said, wow, this is the day I get to write that check. All right? We don't like it, but you get what you pay for or you don't get what you don't pay for. And look at some of those cities that you've heard in comparison. And I hope I don't get a nasty letter from any of them, but you're getting a lot for your money in this city. You know, one thing about being adult is you have to be able to hear opinions different from your own without acting out of order. All right? Salina provides a lot of services that other cities in the state don't. And when folks from other cities come here for meetings, they marvel at what we have going on here. If you're not in that room, you're not going to hear those comments. Well, you know, people griped about downtown, that we were spending money on downtown.

Okay, please can respect Commissioner Davis until I'm finished.

And a lot of projects that... down their own respective roads become, wow, how could we have made it without these? We're not universally accepted at the inception phase. And at some point, what that means is what didn't seem like a good idea early on turned out to be great. I don't know what I don't know. All right. So sometimes you have to put a little faith. And you either believe that the river project is going to be good for our future or you don't. I happen to believe that it's going to be the basis of a lot more development, private and public. But you have to decide that you're going to try to grow or not. There are a lot of Kansas cities. that have not put growth and securing their future as a priority. And you can see what's happening to them. They're getting smaller, they're withering. This is one... We've gotten a little smaller, but for rural America, holding your own is as close to the equivalent of growth as you can get. All right? And if you... You have to ask yourself, what are you doing to help make this place grow? You know, everyone here has a talent. Put it to use and see what you can do to help local growth. Okay, now as far as the property tax issue, I don't know, rebates is probably, the 10-year, is rebates the best word to use for some of the development? It amounts to rebate. Those are temporary. Those are not truly tax-exempt properties in the usual sense like a church or a school. So eventually those businesses do come back on the tax roll. So some commission a couple of years from now is going to have a lot of found money because those properties will start paying a lot of property tax.

Please, please.

Well, it's like not going to your savings account and taking out your last $5,000 for that vacation. When things go wrong for a city, they don't go wrong at a $5,000 clip. They go wrong at a one point something million dollar clip to open up a river. We don't know what the final tab is for the windstorm damage. So you have to have, could you please stop interrupting me? So we don't know what, every year something comes up that we don't expect. That's the reason you have a rainy day fund, for those things. that are unexpected. And our unexpected expenses are huge when they show up. So having a little cushion is not a bad idea. And the reason we don't go below a certain amount is because it does affect our ability to get financing for long-range projects. We can't solve every family's personal issues. Government was never set up. 1609 forward, that was not the purpose, all right? That's called socialism, which most of you would make an uglier face if I said, well, if you want that, there are places on the planet that have that. But you would... But you would... If we suggested we go that route. But... The... Elderly have problems. I'm soon crossing over into fixed income, and you look at life differently. I look at Medicare as a consumer, not as a physician. It's a different way of looking at things. But children should help take care of their parents so they can live in a home. Because what happens with a lot of those families? The parent dies, what's the first thing the kids do? Sell the house, take the money and split. They could have used some of that money ahead of time to take care of their parents in that home. So it's just like asking the school board to solve all the personal problems at home. Government can't solve every problem in every house. But we're trying to make this city the best we can and look forward to the future. The future is a long-range project. You have to look beyond the length of your own term. You have to look beyond two or three years. So the steps we take now are for the benefit of people five, 10 years down the road. And probably for the 12th time, we did not sue the Cozy Inn. All right.

And we did not sue the Cozy Inn.

Thank you.

Okay.

With that, I will accept a motion. I move that the resolution number 27-8367.

Sorry, I went to the wrong motion.

I do.

Ask you to make a motion we consider and approve resolution number 268370 to levy property taxes exceeding the revenue neutral rate.

Second. We have a motion and a second to approve resolution number 26-8370, levying a property tax rate which exceeds the revenue neutral rate. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? May. That item passes 4-1. lead us to the next one.

I move approving ordinance number 27-11296, appropriating the 2027 annual budget. We have a motion and a second to approve ordinance number 27-11296, adopting and appropriation the 2027 annual budget.

May we have a roll call?

Commissioner Davis?

Aye.

Commissioner Lankowitz?

Aye.

Commissioner Norris?

Aye.

Commissioner Remp?

Nay.

Mayor Hoppeck?

Aye. That item passes 4-1. That will lead us to the final one.

And I move approval of resolution number 27-8367, adopting the 2027 comprehensive fee schedule for the city of Salina, Kansas.

I second that.

We have a motion and a second to approve resolution number 27-8367, adopting the 2027 comprehensive fee schedule for the city of Salina. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That item passes 5-0. Okay, that will bring us to the consent agenda.

Item 4.1, consider approval of the August 24th, 2026 regular meeting minutes. And item 4.2, consider approval of resolution number 26-8373, reaffirming the Saline County Solid Waste Management Plan with updates to goals and the committee roster.

Do we have an item the commissioner would like to pull from the consent agenda? Are there any comments from the public on the consent agenda? If not, I will bring it back for a motion.

I move for approval of the consent agenda as read.

Second. We have a motion and second to approve consent agenda items 4.1 and 4.2. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That passes 5-0. That will bring us to administration.

Item 5.1, consider approval of ordinance number 26-11300, levying Salina Business Improvement District number one service fees for 2027. Ms. Pack.

Good afternoon, Mayor and Commissioners. Debbie Pack, Director of Finance. Statute allows that cities create business improvement districts. In 1983, the City Commission approved creation of the BID No. 1, covering certain downtown areas of Salina. Cities may provide services directly or by contract with a not-for-profit corporation. Since 1987, that effort has been delegated to Salina Downtown Inc., SDI, a not-for-profit advocacy and marketing organization. A bid program of services is financed through service fees on businesses within the district. Upon annual recommendation by the BID Board, the governing body, by ordinance, levies the service fees applicable only to the businesses located in the district. Other funding for the SDI and BID include an operational supplement from the city's allocation of the city funds, a facade grant program, also an allocation from city funds, and 40.6% of the 1% downtown CID. For 2027, the BID board has recommended a 0% increase in fees. So today's action is consideration of ordinance number 2611300, levying Salina Business Improvement District number one service fees for 2027. I would stand for any questions. And I know Leslie's also here from SDI if you have any questions for her.

Any questions from the commissioners?

I have one. Debbie, as I read this, I'm looking at the hospital slash mill district. Maximum fee per business. The way I read that, if I had a clinic that's not related, this line of regional, and I have 12 employees, I have an $852 fee per business. as part of that district. If I'm Salina Regional and I have, I don't know, 750 employees, my fee is roughly $440 more. I don't know. Should we look at that? I mean, I know it was brought up earlier, all the tax-exempt property through the city that... Thelina Regional, got friends at Thelina Regional too. But I know property taxes being such an issue and they keep buying property around the community that we keep losing some prime property from our property tax rolls.

Those fees are determined and recommended by the BID board, so I think that would be something that went back to the board for review, and we can certainly ask them to do that in the future.

I would certainly ask them to do that. If I had that clinic of, say again, a dozen people, a smaller operation, and I have what is a giant in the medical field in the community, Percentage-wise, it is a dramatic difference.

Leslie, do you want to answer that in any way?

If I could piggyback a question for Ms. Bishop when she comes up. Is there a reason... that the, I was going to call them yellow and green, that the employment and hospital districts don't have a linear foot basis to their or why the other ones do.

Leslie Bishop, Salina Downtown. To be completely honest and forthcoming, this is what was given to me when I walked into the position. I know that the BID is broken out into three different categories. The hospital mill levy, which is where the hospital is, and then the alley and beyond into Elm Street. Salina downtown and Santa Fe is considered the employment district. I cannot answer why it was decided that the mill area like the hospital or United Capital Management, for example, their BID dues were not based on square footage. But I can certainly do some research with the city of Salina back when this was all developed.

This is a longstanding, and I think it's actually the city's ordinance that sets these. So if you want us to review those, we certainly can take it back to the board and review it. And I don't know. The history is long. I'm assuming that they probably set those up in terms of the amount of impact that the SDI has. I mean, SDI is not doing marketing for the hospital or for some of those other businesses. So they certainly are doing marketing for the businesses that are on Santa Fe and around Santa Fe. On Santa Fe is a little bit higher or through the district. But that's been a longstanding setup. We can certainly take a look at that ordinance and how we have that all laid out and take it back to the board and have a discussion with them about adjusting it if we think that the boundaries need to be changed based on the fact that things have changed downtown. We certainly do that.

Okay.

Thank you.

Anything else for me?

Yeah. You might pull that ordinance at some point because I don't remember either. Okay.

Thank you.

Any other questions or comments? Are there any comments from the public on this? Okay, with that, I bring it back to the Commission for action.

Mayor, move to be postponed consideration of Ordinance 26-11300 to two months from now, or six weeks. I look to the City Manager for an estimate. I guess I'd ask.

Yeah, I mean, this doesn't change any of the fees for 2027. I would say this is probably a little bit longer term, probably a project we want to take up and look at for the 2028 budget cycle. And so we would have that discussion during that time frame, if that makes sense. Because this really just keeps the fees the same. I don't know if we want to – we're not adjusting – I mean, the BID fees have been set. We're not increasing them. So unless you felt like we were really going to, I don't know. We could go either way. If you wanted to wait and do it as part of a budget process, we could do that. Or if you want to do that. immediately that's up to the city commission I suppose.

So we could get some more background and even it may if it only takes two weeks to get the background if there's no change.

Yeah I would probably give us a couple of months as long as we have the fees set I guess Debbie is there a time frame we have to have these fees set? For the 2027?

We do need to adopt these by the end of the year, and I would say we want to give ourselves at least December to get the billing and everything in place for the 2027 cycle. So we have a little bit of time.

Yeah, if you want to give us the second meeting in October or first meeting in November, I think we could do that.

That would be fine.

So until the second meeting in October? It's October 20. I don't have a calendar.

The 19th? October 26th. Oh, 26th. I'm sorry. Yep, 26th.

So that would early November be? Well, that would give you five weeks.

November would be the 9th. That would be fine.

November 9th? To the November 9th meeting to get history on the reason for the difference in determination of Fees, particularly in the employment hospital, middle districts, with the example being given, were disparate. Fee for just a much smaller number of employees seems to exist. I think we got it. Got it, okay.

Do we have a second? that we have a motion in a second to postpone consideration of ordinance number 26-11300 till november 9th and ask staff and sdi director for additional information as to the hospital slash mill districts for further consideration Okay, I guess that's an ordinance. Do we need to do a roll call since it's postponing?

I wasn't sure if I could jump in or Patrick should.

No, usually for a motion to postpone, you wouldn't need a roll call. I think I'm comfortable with that.

Okay, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, that item passes 5-0. Okay, that will bring us to item 5.2.

Item 5.2, consider approval of a third amendment to the Salina Destination Development Phase 2 Development Agreement.

Mr. Hennessy. Sean Hennessy, Deputy City Manager. What you have before you is the third amendment to the existing DA with Salina Destination Development. What I'd like to do is first of all just give you a really brief background of this project and then what the net effects are of this third amendment to the development agreement with Salina Destination Development. So as you know, we were able to receive $25 million grant from the state of Kansas in order to assist with our housing shortages here in Salina. And we went out through an RFP process and ended up selecting Salina Destination Development to develop 500 units, housing units. They're basically broken down into two different phases. We had phase one, which has 252 apartments. These are traditional apartments, large buildings subdivided into apartments. And that phase has now been completed. And I just talked to the developer. It has been enormously successful. All 252 units are leased, and there is over 100 people waiting on a wait list to find an apartment. They said that they have never seen as successful in terms of the rental as this phase one process has been. During the phase one, we initiated a reimbursement program as the apartments became available. However, we knew that for phase two, there was going to be time constraints because the grant money had to be expended this year. We were able to stretch it out, and the state finally, the last deadline the state said was going to be September 30th. Now, they are starting and investing, and we have reimbursed them for some of the infrastructure work for Phase 2, but we knew that there was no way that they were going to be able to complete all of the apartments by September 30th. And so what we have done is we – talked with the state, the state agreed to allow them to take and be reimbursed for the costs on phase one that they paid for themselves. Because if we don't expend this money by September 30th, it has to go back to the state. And so that's what this net agreement does. It allows reimbursements for the costs that they were not reimbursed for in phase one. Additionally, what this amendment does is it updates the completion dates. And if you look in the report, I won't read them all to you, but it breaks down some of the private drive completion dates. The key numbers are the first 148 units for phase two needs to be completed by June 1st of 2028. And all 248 units in phase two needs to be completed by December 31st of 2028. I think this is frankly a more realistic timeline than what the developer originally proposed. I was always somewhat skeptical that they would be able to meet that deadline. Remember also in phase two, because these are not large apartment complexes they're individual stick built in many cases this is duplexes this is four plexes this is a number of single family homes so you've got to run all that infrastructure all the sewer lines all the electric all the water lines and everything else so This updates those dates also. They have already been reimbursed. Of the $25 million, $12 million was for Phase 1, $1 million for purchase of all of the property for both Phase 1 and Phase 2, so that left $12 million left over. So far, they've already been reimbursed for $7,125,421.66 of phase two. So that leaves $4,874,578.34 remaining of the original grant money. And this will allow them to claim those costs from phase one in order to expend that money before the September 30th deadline. So be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Have we gotten approval from the state of Kansas? Have we what? Gotten approval from the state of Kansas to do this third amendment? Yes. Okay, thank you.

In fact, we have a meeting scheduled for a closeout later on this month, and they've been made well aware of it, and they have agreed with this amendment.

Thank you. Quick question. So here this afternoon, if we don't approve this amendment, That money, that grant money or however you want to view it from the state grant money would be lost. Yes. It'd be gone, never to be seen here again anyway.

It will have to be returned to the state.

Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else? Any comments from the public?

Tony Johnson, Celina. I wish we'd quit talking about our need for housing and incentivizing it as well, because supply and demand simply, I don't understand why we keep using those terms. But anyway, how far behind is this project? I mean, they signed a contract. They knew what was on the line. Why don't we hold their feet to the fire? You know, they want us to jump through hoops so they can get tax money free and clear, go straight to their bottom line, I assume. I mean, why don't we just hold them to what they signed up for? I don't understand why we always make adjustments for these guys, you know. They're the ones that put their name on the dotted line just like we did. They knew what deadlines they were up against. Get after it, you know, so. I'm curious, though. I would like to know how many years behind this project is currently, though, or if it is.

I don't have it in front of me. Sean, do you know?

I'd have to go back and look what the original dates were for completion. I don't know them off the top of my head because it's been amended two other times before. But not in regards to the dates. It's been amended in regards to the reimbursement and otherwise.

Okay.

I will bring it back to the commission for action.

Mr. Mayor, I move we approve the Third Amendment to the Phase II Development Agreement with Salina Destination Development.

Second. We have a motion and a second to approve the Third Amendment to the Phase II Development Agreement with Salina Destination Development. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That item passes 5-0. That will bring us to item 6.1.

Item 6.1, consider approval of ordinance number 26-11298, annexing 27 acres of land located at the northwest corner of East North Street and Marymount Road.

Thank you, Mayor and Commissioners. Tonight we're presenting a request from James Hall representing Great Plains Manufacturing for the voluntary annexation of 27 acres of land. Go to the next slide. This property is situated at the northwest corner of East North Street and Marymount Road. As we walk through this, I'm sorry, Dustin Michelson, Planning and Zoning. As we walk through the slides this evening, we'll review how this request aligns with our municipal growth policies, infrastructure capacities, and long-range planning documents. The specific request before you is to bring 27 acres of land into the city limits. The property encompasses portions of lot five as well as all of lot seven, eight, and nine within the Brown and Brown addition, along with the abutting unbuilt rights of way. Because this is a voluntary annexation initiated directly by the property owner under KSA 12-520-A-7, it does not require a formal resolution or a public hearing before moving forward. Along with bringing the land into the city, the applicant is requesting that it be zoned I-3 heavy industrial district. Next slide. So to provide some context, the subject property was originally platted in 1970 as part of the Brown and Brown addition, which dedicated several internal streets along with that plat. Over time, both the city and Saline County have modified portions of this street network such as vacating parts of Dillingham Avenue and Hensley Street back in 1994 while retaining utility easements. So those are shown in red there on the screen. Great Plains Manufacturing now owns this entire parcel. This annexation request is step one of a two-step process to bring the land into the city so that the owner can subsequently petition the city commissioned to vacate the remaining unbuilt streets that we often refer to as paper streets. And so diving into the nature of requests here, the applicant wants to consolidate their North Street campus into the municipal boundary. This will establish consistent I-3 zoning that matches their active manufacturing campus to the west. Under Kansas state statute, because the property directly touches our existing city limits and a written petition was submitted, it qualifies for direct voluntary annexation without the need for the procedural steps required for non-voluntary annexations. Next slide. So looking at infrastructure and services, the necessary support systems are already in place for this site. For water and sanitary sewer, we have adequate municipal infrastructure available, including a 12-inch water main on East North Street and an 8-inch main in Marymount Road that will handle both domestic use and fire protection. This site also has a direct access to an 8-inch sanitary sewer line to the west. Regarding the utilities, the land is entirely within the average electrical service territory and sits outside any rural water districts, meaning we do not need to navigate any franchise boundary adjustments or anything of that nature. Finally, public safety agencies are prepared to cover the area. The Salina Fire Department will respond from Station 1 within the acceptable time frames, and the Salina Police Department will assume full jurisdiction as soon as the annexation ordinance takes effect. Next slide. When considering the costs and benefits of this annexation, we see a balanced arrangement here. The property owner will become subject to the city's property tax mill levy, local sales taxes, and applicable franchise fees. In return, the owner gains access to municipal water utilities as well as full city police and fire protection. Next slide. Regarding the land use, the property is currently designated as heavy industrial under the Saline County zoning. Under established Kansas law, when county land is annexed, it retains its county classification until the city takes affirmative action to rezone that property. If the city takes no other action, this property would default to the abutting city classification, which is I-3 heavy industrial district. Next slide. The annexation request also includes the rights-of-way for Dillingham Avenue, Hensley Street, and Gregory Avenue, where they abut the property. Incorporating these rights-of-way maintains consistency with the established city policy. As a result of this action, the maintenance responsibility for these roadway segments will officially transfer from Saline County over to the city of Salina if these streets were ever built. Next slide. Reviewing how this request fits into our long-range framework, the comprehensive plans future land use map designates this area as part of the employment hub, which is that purple area that's shown there on the screen. Furthermore, our urban service area map identifies this location within the initial areas for annexation due to its close proximity to the city limits and available infrastructure. This proposal follows our core growth policies by directing new development to existing edges avoiding leapfrog development and extending services only to contiguous lands that consent to annexation. Next slide. Once annexed into the city, this property will be added to our tax rolls and will become subject to the city's property tax mill levy. Next slide. And the governing body has three options tonight. First would be to adopt ordinance number 26-11298 to annex the subject property into the city. Second would be to postpone consideration to allow for additional information to be gathered. Or third, to decline to adopt the ordinance which would leave the property in Saline County. Next slide. Based on staff's review, staff finds that this request meets all the necessary criteria. Therefore, we recommend that the city commission adopt ordinance number 26-11298, officially annexing the subject property into the city of Salina. And I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. Okay, any questions for Dr. Dustin?

Questions or comments? Does the applicant wish to address the commission?

Mayor and Commissioners, James Hall, 1525 East North Street. Thank you for your consideration. I apologize. I'm about 12 years late getting this done. I normally do this within weeks after we buy a piece of property. When I was working with Evergy on another project in that area, it dawned on me that I was late with this, so I'm here making that up, and I'd like to move forward and get it into the city so that we have full access to it with any more development we do in that area. Thank you.

Any questions for applicant? Any comments from the public? Okay, if not, I will bring it back to the Commission for action.

Mr. Mayor, I move that this governing body adopt ordinance number 26-11298, annexing the subject property into the City of Salina. Second.

We have a motion and a second, approving ordinance number 26-11298, annexing the subject property into the City of Salina. May we have a roll call, please?

Commissioner Davis?

Aye.

Commissioner Lankowitz?

Aye.

Commissioner Norris?

Aye.

Commissioner Remp?

Aye.

Mayor Hoppeck?

Aye. That item passes 5-0. Okay, that will bring us to other business. Is there an item a commissioner would like to bring before the group?

I have a couple items, please.

Okay.

In my 32 years as a school superintendent, I've sat through over 1,100 public meetings. A few of them were very tough, and I vividly remember those tough ones. However, nothing that I've ever witnessed came close to the August 24th meeting right here in this room, nothing. I listened to every single comment on television and the behavior of a few individuals was simply unacceptable and undemocratic. I'm only one commissioner, but may I remind everyone that the Kansas Open Meetings Act allows wide discretion on how, when, and where, and if we hold public mic sessions. You have a legal right to watch us conduct meetings and to participate in certain public hearings like the budget hearing, but I know of no absolute right to conduct an open public forum. All 1,100 of my school district meetings went off without character assassination, extreme rude behavior, or refusal to yield the podium. 1100 and we welcome the public to speak at these school board meetings. We had lots of people that spoke but there's no right in Kansas law to ignore decorum and reasonable standards of participation. So Mr. Mayor I'd like the commission to direct city staff and our attorney to review other cities, Kansas City's participation rules, and propose any amendments we might need to our own. While I welcome public forums, and if you know what's in my heart, you know I really do. I sat through 1,100 or more. Please do not abuse civil discourse and our rules. We may want to temporarily suspend public comments until a new agreed-upon format is established, or we may want to take a moment to review our current rules of participation, which are not being followed in some cases. And then I have one other one if you want to take it now or after you have any comments. Any comments from...

Well, I fully agree. The personal attacks and snide comments just don't have a place in an adult forum. Now, I personally welcome, if you have a better argument than me, bring it. I challenge you to convince me to change my mind. And you don't know how many times that I have changed my mind on things because of comments I've received from citizens. We don't claim to know everything. We are not a hands-on city commission. We don't go. Well, there are too many facilities. We could not go check every brick, every roof, every building, every pipe. And if we went looking at them, I probably wouldn't know what I was looking at anyway. I would like to believe I do know how to select folks in charge of those departments. In fact, we only have one employee of the city commission, and that's the city manager. So like a head coach on a football team, his assessment is based on the performance of his department heads and city staff. I don't think you could bring anything here to us that would would be more than what I could take. You may look at me sometimes and think that I don't care about your comments because I'm not jumping up and down and going, oh me, oh my, the sky is falling. That's not me. Rest assured, my brain is working very fast. You've got five people up here who have, at the very least, lot of intelligence and ability to reason things through sometimes we have to vote against our own personal desires because it's for the better good of the city but I don't you know I would not let my kids talk to me the way some of your comments have been directed towards the city manager I don't know how you're going to discipline your own kids to tell them not to do what they see you do on TV. There are ways to get messages across. And when the messenger becomes more important than the message, rest assured, that message has been lost. So I would ask for proper decorum and respect as we discuss. If we're wrong, tell us. This is about the collective consciousness of Saline County, Salina, Kansas, getting things right. Not everybody's going to be happy with the first move, but somewhere down the road, we get to a place where most of us are comfortable. And that will require discussion, which is uncomfortable at times, but you embrace that as part of the process. But we need constructive comments. You know, applause is not part of acceptable behavior. If you look at the agenda sheet, it tells you, you know, what types of behavior is acceptable and what type is not. No one wants to be booed, and no one wants to come up there and not get applause if everyone else is getting applause. That's a type of peer pressure that keeps some citizens from coming up to that microphone, just because of the treatment they're going to get from the other sitting in the room. So, you know, speak as if the people listening to you can respond to you the same way that you treat them with your words. Thank you.

I would certainly be open to seeing how other municipalities are doing this. I think there's considerably, in case in point, there's a difference between civil discourse and conveying different ideas and just coming up. the sake of just let's make vitriolic comments because hey that maybe makes me feel better for the day or that evening you know this business here is predicated on doing the business of the city and yes we want to hear what the public has to say but there's also an element of like it's just gonna be slings and arrows and no productive ideas then maybe it's time to look at ways to modify that and that's all I have

I address this on social media and I know some of my fellow commissioners have, maybe are less than enthusiastic about me participating on social media. I'm just trying to be transparent to the community, which I think there has been, maybe the information has been out there. But I think people really have to look for it a lot of times, and I'm just trying to kind of give them the meat of the meetings via social media. And I did address that to the people who watch what I post. At the same time, I do need to mention that I think most of us have probably heard the saying that there comes a time when good people start doing bad things. I know we have a lot of people in the room that have been bringing things up for multiple years. Animal shelter, for example. And the comment's been made regarding listening to the people in the room. But I'm sure from your vantage point, it's hard to think that you've been listened to based upon kind of where we went with that. But getting back on point, we all, regardless, we have to be respectable to one another. When we start throwing sticks, when we start throwing out names, it does nobody any good. We can disagree. We just have to have civil conversations regarding it.

So I guess your question was whether we wanted to review our current policy. And I guess I don't think that's a bad idea. to review and familiarize ourselves with it and perhaps familiarize the public with it. The thing that bothers me about some of the things I've seen here recently is what the people on the outside see for our community. Our community is better than that and we need to do better. I know we sit up here and we try to be respectful and we would like to see that work both ways. So

I don't know what whether you we think we should have a study session or or how just how we want to just Yeah, I think we can we can take a look at some other communities and provide some options to City Commission at the next meeting or Didn't yeah Okay, and then second thing

The second thing, I wanted to thank Commissioner Rimp for just talking about communication. I tend to agree. In the past four to six months, there have been constant calls for more transparency and open communication. And I'm talking about in everything you read out in the public. And I don't disagree with that. Now, my way of going about it may be different than some of you think, but I've been doing this for a number of years, and I think I have a possible idea that might work. Without an effective communication plan, it's very difficult to know what's going on in any organization or any business. There's a different side to Salina City government than we have been reading about. An entire structure of competent departments that citizens must know about to regain confidence. And I think part of it is without a robust Salina journal, all of us remember when we had a robust journal with local reporters that would delve into all of these things and weigh them out and you'd hear a lot of different sides to something. So that leaves our information flow really lacking. So because of that, and this is something I don't do very often, It's something I may not have liked done to me if I was the superintendent or the city manager, but because I feel strongly about it, I feel it's my obligation to propose an immediate administrative structural changes to transform our current media department into a public information department. where people can read daily updates about important city issues and email staff for prompt answers. Mr. Wood, am I correct that you currently have some vacant positions with authority to recognize into a PIO, Public Information Office, strategy? Yeah, I do. Mr. Mayor, assuming all of us believe in effective, responsive communication is paramount for Salina, may we direct the city manager to head in this direction as soon as possible? If that's a motion, I'll second. If that's a motion. It's not necessarily a motion. It's just for your edification. I concur.

Yeah, and I think, again, I think there is a void there. We've tried some things, and so... I would concur that we have the city manager work on how that would look. And if he needs to work with you, Commissioner Norris, that'd be fine with me to help do that. Because information is knowledge. And I think that's part of our problem right now.

So OK. Thank you. While we're giving you homework, three things that we are probably needing to schedule. Probably the one which you probably have already scheduled would be new commissioner orientation. Probably be a good idea for some of the longer-sitting commissioners to attend and review our knowledge as well. We are probably well overdue for our strategic planning session. This is probably a good time in the flow of things for us to... The budget's behind us, and we can do some long-range planning now, which will influence next year's budget. And I'm thinking somewhere along the line... We'll soon be late for your annual review as well, so that needs to be put on the schedule. And I don't know the name of the group that was at Campbell Plaza Saturday night, but if you're old enough to talk about Woodstock in a first-person perspective, It was a really good time out there. Most of the folks, I think, were my vintage age-wise, a few slightly older. And I don't know whether we had their kids or their grandkids, probably their grandkids. They were having a good time as well. So group, whoever you are, don't know your name, but you did very well. It was just a great atmosphere with the lights, the murals, the restaurant next door, people there in the lawn chairs. It was really fun. And free.

Thank you, Mayor. I, kind of piggybacking on that just a little bit, it was about a month and a half ago we had a very emotional, emotionally charged meeting regarding water in our community. We had, well, I think probably everybody in the room was here. Emotions ran high from that meeting. We established kind of on the fly program to provide relief to households or perhaps block neighborhoods that their water wasn't meeting the standard, whatever that standard might be. And since that time, as I understand it, up to the moment, nobody has met the criteria for any sort of water relief. And I don't know if the city standards are too high or the community's standards are too high. I've mentioned before, I have privilege. My wife and I have a vacation property in Arizona. The water's terrible. At this point in time, and Norm has mentioned this time and time again, that part of the world is lucky to have water, and water is a issue across the country, I do believe. But here in our own backyard, in our own community, I'd like to see a water relief committee established of citizens. We have some citizens that are very critical and quite perhaps rightfully so, but focus on water relief and let them make a call. One of the problems we have, which I think the city and commission is lacking some credibility, but we have homes where we're getting two perfectly fine, and they'll, total dissolved solids might be pushing a higher number, but they're meeting the criteria, and out of a third faucet that maybe rarely gets used, the water's not very good. Well, I'm not a water expert, but If I had the chance to nominate somebody to put on that committee, I'd want Ben on there because he knows so much more about water than I do. But somebody that could look at it from, he knows the plumbing of homes like the back of his hand and water infrastructure around the community extremely well with all the research he's doing. balance from the community on that commission and let them make the call rather than the city or even commissioners, or at least allow them to make a recommendation. One of the problems we have as a city is if, I'm gonna use the term willy-nilly, if one home gets it, that's gonna start a domino effect going down the block. And from the city's perspective, from everybody in the rooms from our perspective, because it's all our money or it's all coming out of the general fund when we provide that relief, we want to make sure that it's a problem coming in with the city feed, not internal plumbing. So it's something that I would like us to seriously consider, to take that burden off the city's back. and have a commission of community members, a balanced commission. We just had 33 applicants or the expressions of interest for a city commissioner position. I think we have fine candidates right there that we could draw from. Second thing I have is, last meeting, I got called into the next door room for perhaps some scolding on purchasing and ethics and maybe rightfully so. And my excuse, and it's an excuse, it was immediately after the consultant's report and I'm thinking, God, why would anybody want to take over our shelter? And I was very concerned about that, but I erred. As a commissioner, I would ask that if that happens in the future, that maybe you call or ask me to get together. I have a lot of flexibility. One of the things that I'm able to get out more because, well, I don't work. I don't have a job. I consider this my job. And for that reason, I'm able to get out and meet people a little bit more or communicate with people a little bit more. But we gotta find a way to work together day in and day out as a commission or every other week as a commission because like it or not, I represent I think a much bigger portion of the community than what sometimes the commissioners as a whole want to acknowledge. I know many up here don't believe, don't buy into the approval RATINGS OR POLL RATINGS. THAT'S FINE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY INTO THEM. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THOSE SAME POLLS SHOW SOCIAL MEDIA AS BEING DANGEROUS OR HARMFUL. AND I THINK WE ALL WOULD AGREE THAT THAT'S POSSIBLE. SO THE POLLS CAN HAVE MERIT. WE JUST GOT TO TAKE THEM FOR WHAT THEY WERE FOR IT. BUT WE HAVE A NEW COMMISSIONER TODAY. Again, I said it right up front, pretty much from the moment he sat down, welcome. I'm glad he's here. He didn't get my initial vote because I nominated somebody else, but I mentioned I think Gary's a fine candidate. And I hope maybe we have a little bit of a new beginning. I don't mean to be rebellious or radical. I'm just trying to represent the community. And I know everybody up here is trying to do that. And with that, those are the couple of things that I wanted to say. Thank you. Thank you.

I just had one comment before we get to citizens forum is, Mr. Davis talked a little bit about growth, and we had individuals who worked on our housing study in here, gosh, I don't know how long ago, and stated that they felt like the, and I think we've talked about this before, that the last census wasn't a valid census, and based on their information they had while reviewing what's going on in the community, they felt like our population is actually increasing, and working towards that 50 000 number so i guess i'll i'll say that i don't agree that we're shrinking or even staying the same i do believe we are growing based on the information and the what i see going on around town so okay with that we will open it up to citizens forum again please give your name and limit your comments to three minutes

Rosemary Mai, Salina, Kansas. I want to invite the public to the Granny Brigade September meeting, which is tomorrow evening at 6.30. And it will be at the Knights of Columbus Hall at 115 North 10th Street. And it will be our House of Representative candidates there, Kansas Board of Education candidates, and our County Commissioner candidates. If you want to be there and ask some questions and see where your candidates from all three of these entities are, where they stand, please come and ask your questions and find out about your candidates. This is an important election, and I think people need to get out and vote. So we'll see everybody tomorrow evening at the Knights of Columbus Hall at 630. Thank you. Thank you, Rosary.

Just wait, Celina. And I love how you're talking about community collaboration, open communication, better monitoring, better information going out. But it just so happens I don't know how to present this because I don't really do this kind of thing much. But for the last four months, I've been coming here talking about community collaboration, talking about economic development and community pipelines, talking about leadership forums. And I've been researching this for the last two years. Okay, so I'm not coming up here with ideas. I don't know how to get this in for formal, but I would really like to sit down with you because I've emailed, I've done all of those things. I'm not coming here to cause problems. I don't like the back and forth either. I think that we are all adults and we should be able to sit here and be good examples for others watching. Now... Please, if somebody could help me on what I need to do. I've got packets for all the commissioners that I've brought with some of the outline. I've left my IP out. I do not know the proper way to go about submitting this to you. But I have talked to multiple ones of you guys, multiple people. And I have an entire packet put together for community collaboration, for economic pipelines, for the exact things that you guys are sitting here saying, well, how do we do that? I've been trying to tell you since June. So please, somebody listen to me. I'm not coming here. I'm coming here as a woman who has experienced it from a seven-figure business to homeless. And I can provide an outlook that nobody else that I know of in this room has. I can come to you as a business owner or I can come to you as somebody on the street. So I'm here to bridge the gap, okay? I've been through a lot of different things in my life and I'm very emotional right now. I'm trying not to be because I've been talking about this and I'm watching you guys sit up here like scratching your heads going, well, what do we do? I'm telling you, I have a system right here. I've got the pipelines. It's a system that I've used for the last six years within my own business. I've owned, operated seven- to nine-figure businesses. The program that I use is one of the programs that Harvard uses, and I'm here to help. But I want to help my fellow citizens, too, because I'm a woman who has been overlooked and not heard for many years of my life in this city. And I just want everybody to have the opportunity to be heard. And what I've designed, I really would like to get a meeting. Please, somebody tell me how I can do that.

You would give the package to the city clerk, and then she'll get it to us and to the city manager?

All right. I got copies for all of y'all. There's a lot more to it. I tried to summarize it. Again, this is something I've been working on for the last two years, so... Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Jesse. Thank you.

Good afternoon, Jim Vince, Atlanta, Kansas. The following direct quotes from- That wasn't from you. You're going to have to talk faster. Jim Vance, Salina. The following direct quotes from shelter evaluation published by National Center for Animal Shelter Evaluations are offered to Salina voters at home who may not be aware of the magnitude of the malfeasance elucidated therein. All quotes are accurate and in context, but superfluous words are omitted without changing the meaning of the text. The good news, page 17, staff are dedicated and committed to animal care. Page 69, Solanum Animal Shelter has a committed staff, but not so good news. Page 72, leadership deficiencies, the core problem. Page 14, many of the deficiencies identified were previously documented in the study prepared by the National Animal Care and Control Association in July 2018, and several have worsened over the past eight years. Page 71, the most serious deficiencies identified in 2018 remain unresolved. and in many areas have worsened. Page 26, the deficiencies observed are systematic and stem from poor leadership. They are not new. They have persisted for at least eight years. Page 14, the problems are deeply rooted and have persisted across multiple leadership eras. Page 44, repeated failures in controlled substance management demonstrate longstanding noncompliance and inadequate oversight. Page 45, these discrepancies represent major compliance violations under DEA regulations. These failures are longstanding. Page 39, the assessment identified discrepancies that violated DEA and Kansas Board of Pharmacy requirements. Page 40, effective controlled substance management is... essential to protecting the city from liability. Page 30. Conditions prevent animals from experiencing the most basic standards of humane care. And that's pitiful. That's not a quote. Page 60. These issues reflect systematic failures in management that collectively compromise humane care. Page 60. These conditions may also violate Kansas statutes. Chapter 47. And finally, page 71, leadership has not provided direction, accountability, or stability. Thank you.

Thank you.

Kim Hill, Salina. I really wasn't planning on talking tonight, but listening to some of the comparisons when talking about the budget, like with McPherson, one of the things that I have And I know I'm not the only one in this community that's thought of this. We, Salina, is right here at the junction of two major interstates. Why don't we have the industries here that McPherson does? How many of our citizens commute every day to McPherson for those industry jobs that pay a remarkable salary that they can support their families on? How awesome would that be to have that right here in Salina? We are at the perfect location for that. And that's one thing that I would like to see somebody start working on. I mean, the price of gas and everything and these people can still afford to commute every day. We don't have any industry in Salina right now that would come close to paying what those industries in McPherson do. And think of the people around Salina and Saline County that would come to work at those industries also. Because not everybody who lives in Salina is meant to work in industry. Think about that. Those people come from other areas that surround Salina. That adds to our growth. That adds to the money that Salina is making off of sales tax and everything else. So I wanted to throw that out there because I would really like for something like that to happen for our community so that these people can provide a good living for their families. It's long overdue. And also to address, I understand what Commissioner Davis said as far as respect. We need to treat you with respect, you need to treat us with respect. Respect is not given, respect is earned. And some of the problems that some of these citizens have is when there is department heads referring to citizens as clowns. That sets the tone also. And a simple apology, whether it be from both sides, sometimes is warranted. And with that being said, the new fire station is awesome. Chief Lacey would have a smile on his face. Thank you. Thank you.

Christy Dixon, Salina, Kansas. Welcome, Mr. Morris. You're not... Dr. Wright, you're not a Ph.D.? I am. Welcome, Dr. Morris. You don't have to call me. Well, I give respect when respect is due. Thank you. I'm a nurse, so I try to respect. Okay, with that being said, transparency. I'm all about transparency. I know what you were saying that was focused towards me and my T-shirt, which I've had lots of people request a T-shirt, so I think it's a little... I think people feel the same way. But I would like to feed off of what Kim just said about the reasons why we do have to sometimes get a little out of character. That's not my bedside character as a nurse by any means. I'm a great nurse. I would never speak to my patient like that. But Mr. Ron Marsh had the audacity to call us a bunch of circus people. One day, I was overheard by multiple people that came back to our group. I emailed Mr. Marsh twice and asked if he would like to meet one-on-one. His response was nothing. So then I caught him at the next meeting, introduced myself, and of course then his excuse was, I wasn't talking about you. But in the end, he was talking about somebody on that side of the room, which is basically the same. It's the general public. Um, so it comes down to transparency and it comes down to being respected. We don't get that. He's never, never came back and said, sorry, I've emailed all the commissioners up here to include the mail to include, I think I added all, but everybody to include, um, the former Animal Shelter Director, never received an email back with my concerns. It was a pretty long letter. I did at the bottom place, once you've read this, just send me a check mark, send me a thank you, send me something. Only one that responded back was Mr. Rimp. So with that being said, I'm assuming your email will be out there.

I'm going to email some... Gary at Gary Norris. Oh, no, this is my time.

Hold on, it's my time. I'll get it. No disrespect, this is my time. They won't stop. I'm going to email you some things. And is there a date and time that I can expect an email back from you?

Absolutely.

Okay. Also, I'd like to know where the artwork is that's missing.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'd like to know how much the timer boards that I asked two or three months ago, how much those cost us. Phone, IT, animal shelter. Are you IT? Can you please change their voicemail? They said they've put in multiple requisitions to have their voicemail changed. I don't know. That's just what they said. And also during this meeting, Dr. Davis said you get what you pay for. Water. That's all I'm going to say. Water. It's the line of water. Thank you.

Susan Cooper, Celina. I want to echo what Mrs. Hill or Ms. Hill said, I believe that when you celebrate having another restaurant coming into Salina, that does not provide the living wage that is needed for families in the community. So truly, you need to look at getting some higher paying jobs in here. I heard a long time ago the Ford plant wanted to come in and put a, or Ford company wanted to put a plant in, but it was quashed because at that time there were businesses in town that did not want to have to compete with the salaries that those folks would have made at the Ford plant. So it's time for you to truly look at what is best for Salina. Secondly, I would like to say that the river renewal project, yes, I believe that it was not mandated or accepted by the citizens, no matter what the river, Friends of the River have to say. I think it was back-ended in with a city ordinance in 2017. But if you go ahead with all of this river fantasy, what is going to happen to all of those houses that are currently protected by the levy Are people in that area, I've read comments that homeowners had said the reason that they don't have to pay such high insurance costs is because they're inside the levy. Does that mean that that's going to provide less protection insurance-wise? Are they going to get flood insurance? I have a feeling that they won't because of the breach in the levee, which will cause the opportunity for flooding. And that could have very well happened this spring with the two storms that came through and caused the log jam. I think you truly need to think about what is best for all of the citizens in Salina, and trust me, A lot of them don't want a fantasy river flowing through the center of Salina. Thank you. Thank you.

Norm Landis, Salina. In 2023 civil discord, Mr. Norris, the Supreme Court ruled that even a short period of denial of freedom of speech is unconstitutional. If you do it, It was Mahat versus Strutt. It caused an irreparable injury. So it's freedom of speech. The Supreme Court ruled on that in 2023. Now, about this, they brought up companies. I had, and my family, had New Holland coming to Kansas. They wanted to come here, but they don't want these big cities. You know where they went? Grand Island. You look at the plant they got up there. We knew the block man that lived in Sterling, Kansas. We had New Holland coming to Kansas in 1973 or four. They don't want these big cities. They went to Grand Island. Now, the Love Canal, the issue, this money has been withdrawn for the airport cleanup. You know this, it's in the paper. Are there drones in this city? I have seen them recently. Who has authority outside of the airport area over private property? We can weaponize them. Do you have an air defense system? Do you have an F-22 or an F-18 to respond to this? An F-22 shot down a hot air balloon outside of the U.S. terminal airport, the country, in the past. Have you budgeted any money for this? Local law enforcement, do they have any missile systems? Federal airspace versus U.S. private. The B-2, the B-21 is now in the air. We got two of them. We're test flighting them out in California. It's called a Skunk Works. I know that. It's near Palmdale. Clarence Kelly headed it up. He was in charge of the SR-71, which replaced the U-2. So, and the issue of these cameras that are taking our picture. Farmer stands up for privacy, wins. He contacted a public interest law firm, the JJ Public Interest Law Firm in Washington. Same kind what you had with the hamburger issue. This is federal. So we gotta start looking at this. But you better get some air defense system around here because we got drones in this county, in this city, and we can weaponize them. We know how to do it.

Diana Frobenius, Salina, Kansas. Two meetings ago, I read out a list of questions, and I was told, we'll get back to you. One of those questions was answered, the very first one, and it reads out of the kind of text that I would teach a secretary as she was coming into the office, the office procedures. But I'll take it. It was an answer. The others, questions, nothing. So I'm going to reread the questions into the minutes so that maybe we can get an answer as soon as possible. Out of what account are the two females paid for their salaries from the shelter? Out of what account are their legal fees being paid? When can we see the test results from the last water tower test before it was drained to be repeated? Why do we hire so many companies to come in and make recommendations when we have experts right here in town? I'm not even going to repeat the one on Cozy Hen. I've given up on that one. This is the plan to get our pipes replaced. This lady has been in charge for, what, 20 years? And there has never been a plan. I am proud to be living in the north side of town. And our pipes are over 100 years old. You're doctors. You know that the first thing In life is water, is air to breathe, is food to eat. It's one of the first things. I'd like to ask also what happened to the millions that the federal government gave that were supposed to be used to clean up the spill or toxic waste from the military base. And what kind of interest has the balance been making all these years? Respectfully, thank you. Thank you.

Katie Shorlingville, Salina. So we had 31 citizens submit their names and resumes for the vacant city commission seat. And I'm just wondering why not a single person was even given the courtesy of any kind of an acknowledgement, not a phone call, not an interview, not anything. You would think out of 31, maybe there would have been three, four, five, that their resumes would have piqued your interest, but obviously not. You may have chosen, Mr. Norris, But I think you did a disservice not only to us, citizens, but to yourselves for not acknowledging these 31 people. Diversity is a very good thing, and it would be a good thing for this commission.

Peggy Ochoa, Salina, Kansas. First off, I would like to know where we are at on the animal shelter project and why it hasn't been on the agenda the last couple of times. I remember Doug making the comment that if we don't act, it's just going to get drug out and drag on and on. I have heard that Prairie Paws was the only one that was interested. I would like to know whether that is true or not. You know, are they committed to taking it over? If not, what is the plan? To just let it shut down? To not have us have that service in our town? That's not acceptable. I am asking you to make getting this issue resolved a priority. because if we don't have compassion and common sense to ensure our animals in our community are properly cared for, how can we expect you, our elected officials, to make sure that we are properly cared for? You know, animals can't talk. If we can't take care of them, how can we take care of our community? And also, the pit bulls, I commend that they've been getting adopted out and there's been money raised. That's great. But why can't someone in Saline County own one of those pit bulls in the county? Because they are not banned in the county. I presume it's because if they get lost, they would end up in the Saline County Animal Shelter. But if they're qualified, you know, if they fill it out and they're qualified, why not? They live out in the county. They're not illegal there. I already spoke my opinion on the taxes, so I won't regroup on that. I will regroup on the money being put back into the general fund that was put towards the river. There's so many opportunities to make up that 700,000 deficit so many Mr Wilbur has three different plans and I don't know if you guys won't listen to him won't entertain it won't you know are you too proud are you too stuck in your ways that you cannot receive all you can do is command and not listen Because, you know, that's not respect. I'm pretty sure he would have some pretty good plans. So where's the common sense? You know, start listening to the people that pay the bills. Read the room. I wish the whole town would show up. We deserve answers, accountability, and responsible leadership that respects us too.

Before anybody else comes up, I meant to do this under other business. Have you addressed the RFP and all that with Prairie Paws?

We did receive one RFP from Prairie Paws. We're reviewing that right now. Everything looks really good. I think it seems like a very thorough plan. We are going to reach out with them and start. Even though the City Commission hasn't told us to move forward, we're going to start the groundwork for putting together an agreement to move forward with them. We'll have the award of the RFP on the next agenda meeting, and then as soon as we can get an agreement with them put together, we're going to do that. So the timeline outlined in their proposal was about eight to ten weeks. eight to 10 weeks after the agreement is approved and signed, they would be able to start coming in and operating the facility. So I would anticipate we'll be able to have them take charge sometime if the negotiations with the agreement go well, which I don't foresee any issues there, would be able to have them come in and take charge of the animal shelter in late November, December timeframe.

Would it help the timeline if we had a special meeting to fast track it?

I don't know that it would, because I think we're going to go ahead and start the process of the preliminary work on the agreement anyway, even though you haven't given us really the direction to do that. We'll go ahead and start that process. We plan to reach out to Prairie Paws this week. There's a few questions we have about a couple of things in the RFP, but nothing Nothing that seems insurmountable. So I think we're already going to start the process of getting that agreement going. Even though you haven't given us the direction yet, we're going to go ahead and start the legwork there. So I don't think a special meeting will make it happen any faster.

You might mention cleaning the shelter.

Yeah, we've already been through a process. I mean, we're trying to kind of downsize the intakes, the number. We're trying to downsize the number of animals in the shelter right now and kind of minimize it as much as possible so that we can get in. All of the concerns that were listed in the report, kind of the high-level concerns, immediate issues have been addressed. We're going to go in. We've got facility staff and other folks that are doing some of the deep cleaning and trying to take care of those things. So, I mean, the intent would be to try to get it in a good situation so that we can turn over a facility that's in good – and get working order to Prairie Paws. They did come through a couple weeks ago and did a tour of the facility, so they've looked through it. They've made some suggestions about things, and we'll work through those and try to get it in the best position possible to turn it over to them when the time comes. Thank you. Thank you.

Tony Johnson, Salina. I want to talk about something that doesn't necessarily prove wrongdoing, but it certainly raises questions about how business gets done in Salina. According to public records, in 2025, our newly elected commissioner did private business with our current mayor's business six times. Then in February of 26, that same mayor voted to provide funding for the same commissioner's new venture, the Reusit Center. Again, I'm not standing here accusing anyone of breaking the law, but I'm saying this, the optics are cloudy. And when you're spending taxpayer money, optics matter. Because to the average citizen, it can look like there's a very exclusive club operating inside City Hall. And most taxpayers don't get to dance, but they're still expected to pay the band. Now let's talk about that executive session called by Commissioner Davis at the last meeting to discuss purchasing policy. And I want a straight answer on this. Was that executive session legally authorized under the Kansas Open Meetings Act? My understanding is that the personnel exemption under KSA 75-4319-B1 is intended for discussions concerning non-elected personnel, not for discussing the purchasing policy amongst elected officials. If I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong, but if I'm right, then the public deserves an explanation, because you can't preach transparency while conducting questionable business behind closed doors. And let me be clear, trust is not something the commission gets to demand from citizens. Trust is something you have to earn. And right now there are a lot of citizens who don't trust what they're being told. This is why I believe the citizens of Salina need to come together and we need to... retain legal counsel, someone who answers to us, not City Hall, to help us navigate the half-truths, the conflicting explanations, and what many residents believe is outright propaganda coming from city leadership. And I believe the first order of business should be the River Renewal Project. Put it on a stand-alone ballot question, use plain English, tell voters exactly what they're being asked to approve, what it will cost, and what the financial obligation is. No vague language, no carefully crafted wording designed to make an enormous project sound harmless. Let the voters decide. If city leadership believes the citizens want this project, then there should be nothing to fear from a clear and honest vote. And if you're confident in this project, you shouldn't need confusing ballot language to sell it. So I'm going to be looking into the best way to pursue this. And if anybody knows a Kansas attorney who understands municipal government, open meetings law, and citizens' rights, and who isn't afraid to challenge City Hall, please get that information to me. Because citizens shouldn't have to become lawyers, investigators, and watchdogs just to understand what their own government is doing. But if City Hall won't provide the transparency, then the citizens are going to have to provide it for themselves. Thank you.

Ben Winholz, Salina. Nikki, if you would do your duty, please. I'm going to fast track because I got two of them here. Nikki's going to hand you a study that I had put together comparing Salina, Kansas in 2025 numbers with the water versus Flint, Michigan. All right, 2014, 2015, when they were in the news. Now, Flint was in there because of lead in their water, and that's what made the contamination. But as you go through this study, it is very revealing. And I'm going to ask you to look at page 3 in the middle where it says, Salinas, 2015. TDS, conductivity, chloride, sulfite, and sodium indicate a more mineralized supply than the crisis era flint values available in the December 14 summary. The important part, and this is what Celina is in for right now, this is what we're dealing with, this sentence alone, for building systems, these perimeters can matter for scale, corrosion, RO loading, heat transfer surfaces, hot water equipment, humidification, and maintenance frequency. Boom! That's what we're going on with our water, guys. That's exactly what we're going on with the water. And if you don't think this is an emergency, I told you last time I have got a second, second fireman to tell me that they have a reactive policy in place for if they do not have the water they need at a fire hydrant when they're fighting a fire. And they also have a list of these fire hydrants. They're called black hydrants. So with that, I'm going to tell you this is an emergency. Now, to go to the second one. After what Commissioner Rem eloquently put it, a nine-second vote for Mr. Norris to come on staff, I put request and review of investigation of potential conflict of interest between Hoppeck and Norris with the county attorney. You guys are good. You're right on that line of legal on this side of the fence, thanks to corporations. And for you, Hoppeck, it would be two LLCs in place also, which we'd like to know what those are about. Anyway, even though it is, you're on the law of being okay, it doesn't look good for unethical practices. So when you say you're not going to do business together in the next year and a half, what I want to know, Mr. Hoppe, is why you even voted for him in the first place. Shouldn't you have recused yourself? I don't believe so. You don't believe so. We citizens do. Thank you.

Dr. Davis, you said earlier we did not sue Cozien. Well, then why did we spend a million dollars? Why did we spend a million dollars dealing with Cozien? Can't give an answer, can you?

I can, but this is your time to talk.

Have you signed a contract about the roundabout at 9th and Waterwell? Haven't had any accidents out there, have you? You know, it's working great. People are not waiting long to make their turn or go across. And we're having an awful lot of accidents within the city of these busy, busy intersections, especially when there's two lanes going different Yeah, there's many times you don't see that other car because the other one in front has got the other one blocked. You don't see them. What do we have? We have an accident. Loss of car, loss of wages, intersections head up. And again, we don't live in a dome. Cozy Inn, the animal shelter, has spread. As I told you earlier, getting calls from the states, Virginia, people are calling back, what's going on in Salina, Kansas? We should be ashamed that we've let it get this far. If you haven't signed a contract with a company, I asked you one time and you said we watched a film of semis making turns. I invite you to come out to my road. And watch a semi-turn. He doesn't stay in his own lane. He can't. If he does, that back axle on that trailer is going to end up in the ditch. He has to get over in the other lane to make the turn. Get into one of those tractors and take a ride with the truck driver. I think Doug Bradley tried to tell you before, it's going to be hard, and you're going to have that roundabout, and you're going to have a mess if you try to put something in the center. You're going to have a mess because that tractor's trying to make that turn, cannot stay, cannot stay in his respective lane because of the length of his trailer. I guess I've said enough. But please, let's get the animal shelter going and don't think, let's get action. Think is a word that if you're not careful, it's drug out. Okay?

Lucille, just FYI, when we were going through our budgeting process, we moved that roundabout back into 2030.

Good. I may be in the grave by then. You know what? I won't have to worry. But really, I know I've used my three minutes. But I seriously would like for you guys to get in the tractor of a semi.

That's three minutes. Thank you.

Experience it.

Thank you.

Shannon Russell in Kansas. I listen to my voice sometimes and I feel like I talk loud and maybe that comes off as aggressive. I don't mean any disrespect. I just think from a personal standpoint, when you talk about citizens and their livelihoods and their financial aspects, you tend to get a little passionate. And so I don't pretend that any of your guys' positions there is easy, but I just, we're talking about, You know, some of the discrepancies like the river renewal, the wording on the ballot, the water tower, the dump with the tarps, the roundabouts, the cozy, all this stuff. You know, I spoke for the first time a while back and I was ashamed of myself for not being more involved. And coming to these meetings have really opened my eyes and I don't mean disrespect to any of you. i just want to be heard and i think the citizens do too what was said tonight about prairie pause love it love it so i don't ever want to come off as disrespectful we're just passionate about our city we're passionate about our money how it's being spent and we just want to be listened to and i'm going to tell you right now Talk to me respectfully, I'll talk to you respectfully. I'll talk to you respectfully even if we don't, but I don't think that will happen with us. But I just I think that's where all the frustration comes from just because lack of being unheard. So tonight a little bit of a breakthrough on citizens. talking you know being respectful of each other i applaud that um but like these people that we have we do have a lot of talent in our community i mean i'm amazed at some of these people uh ben jess i'm amazed i think we should be using them um i think we should be listening um so it's not like like um mr davis said may not always agree with everybody's opinions and that's fine but a civil discussion is great so if i think we can just be heard and respect those in this community that do have extensive you know backgrounds um gosh that would go a long way and we will work better together than apart thank you

Michelle Timpson, Solomon. I just wanted to give an update on this shelter. I appreciate them allowing us to finally adopt out the pit bulls. I know it's not in Saline County, but we do appreciate it. And Humane Salina did raise $3,600 in one day just to help move the pit bulls to other shelters. And we moved out... well we'll have three of them I think now long-term pit bulls moved out to shelters and then some individuals came in and adopted a couple more pit bulls and We did go down and have a meeting. Christie and I and Tom Wilber had a meeting down at the animal shelter with Kyla and Brett Lamer, who I want to say is fabulous. We can't say enough about Brett Lamer. Very transparent. He listens. He has a lot of great ideas. We had a great meeting, and I know some people want to believe that we don't get along with the staff down there, but we had a great meeting, and... We did come up with solutions and we are moving the animals out. And I want to say, I think the citizens see Humane Salina as a solution because we do have the citizens following our page. They do want to get the animals out of there. So we are moving the animals out of the shelter and they do want to see the shelter change. And thank you for bringing up the points on the consultation report because It just shows that the leadership down at the animal shelter since 2018, which I think if my memory suits me, is when Monique Holly took over. And I do believe since 2023, I've been telling Jacob that Monique needed to go. And I think we can agree on that. And we've been telling you that. And we cannot deny that because that consultation report backs it up and i think that some people believed that that was going to be your guys's alibi or somebody's alibi that the consultation report was going to be your guys's alibi but i think it was the nail in the coffin for us because that consultation report i mean we knew it was going to be bad but it was worse than what i imagined it was going to be so i'm i'm glad you guys got the consultation report Because that was an embarrassment, a real embarrassment. But I'm glad you got it. But I'm also wondering why we're still paying the legal fees of those two women. Because they didn't know their job, and they were not doing their job. They did not practice. That was not in their scope of practice, what they did to those puppies. So they should not be getting paid, and you should not be paying their legal fees at all, is my opinion.

Karen Balthasar Salina. I just have a couple comments about the big wide sidewalk on Magnolia that where the curbing meets, you can't even cross the street. There's street sidewalks closed, so we have this beautiful sidewalk that you can't even cross the street to get to. I don't know who I talked to to try to get this done. I've called the street department. It's hired by someone else, not the street department, so they don't know, and they'll get back to you, and they don't. My other thing is a sidewalk that went behind the Y for the river walk. Today as I'm driving here to a meeting, two different people in chairs pulled out in front of me and the one fell over. I could have hit him. This sidewalk isn't wide enough for these people with these handicapped chairs around by the, it's Prescott and Front Street there, that curve. Them people can't ride their motor, their vehicles, their assisted chairs. And I think it's strong. And my most important one is the Cove. Open two months of the year. And I understand kids go back to school and they were our lifeguards. But hotels don't have lifeguards. Minneapolis' Wellness Center doesn't have a lifeguard. But Water walking has to have lifeguards. I just wondered if there was someone I could talk to about it, find out what I need to know so it can help me understand and not complain about it, but know what the answer is. And I thank you on Prairie Pals and all that you guys have done. Thank you very much.

Okay, it looks like we have an executive session. Do we want to take a five-minute break prior to that? How long do we need?

I think we might need 20 minutes just to go over all of it.

Okay. Do you want to move?

Yeah, I'm ready. Move we request into executive session for acquisition of real estate matters.

Hold on just a second. Could we have... Please have a little, even if you're leaving the room, a little quiet so we can read this. Thank you.

I move the City Commission recess into executive session for 20 minutes beginning after a five-minute break to discuss the potential acquisition of specific real estate, the identification of which would be contrary to the public interest based upon the need for the preliminary discussion of the acquisition of real property pursuant to KSA 75-4319-B6. The open meeting will resume in this room at 7.20.

Do we have a second? Second. We have a motion and a second to recess into executive session for 20 minutes following a five-minute break to discuss the potential acquisition of specific real estate, the identification of which would be contrary to the public interest based upon the need for a preliminary discussion of the acquisition of real estate pursuant to KSA 75-4319-B6. The open meeting will resume in this room at 7.20. Who will be attending?

It will be myself, Sean Hennessey, Deputy City Manager, and Patrick Hoffman, City Attorney.

All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? We'll be back here at 7.20.

Bye. Thank you. Thank you. you Thank you.

Well, as soon as they come back on, there we go. Okay, we have no further business. Second. We have a motion to say all in favor? Aye. Opposed? See everyone in a couple weeks.