Shellfish Conservation Committee - Regular Meeting

Yeah, we'll see here. There's something about green crabs. You're right. German. All right. So, five 501 is that Brian there? Can he hear us on iPhone guest? I can hear you there, Rusty. Great. Thanks for uh signing in. Yeah, looks like Victor's stalking us there, too. Um the Vman Okay. Um, so yeah. So I guess we could um call to order 501. Yeah. Call the meeting to order here for 515 2025 shellfish meeting. Um we need to Was there anything in those minutes from that last thing that concerned you? That's good then. All right. So, we'll make a motion um for approval of minutes from last uh meeting. Approval of minutes. Yeah. David didn't say there's any concern, so I think we're doing all right then. So, I I'll say I on that. I probably don't have a warden update unless we had some crazy incident happen, which fortunately have. And um state, you said we're not going to have state here. Any old [Music]

business? None. I didn't do my homework either. You didn't? Yes. A pretty good figure. Good for a few. I see a picture of 1940 clients. Hey, we're clear. Not sidetracked. My friend's grandfather used to talk about the airport ramp in Trenton and the trucks at the airport there and the truck. They didn't use baskets. He said, he said they filled their pickup trucks with land and then drove them up the shore into a truck, a big trailer truck would meet them and buy them all. That's what he said. Right. What else? We had three miles ashore the clan then rolled. We shared it with everyone. So that is that is some old business. We well we had a clan that were buried. We had three miles of short. I guess what we really have to talk about just not much really is the uh new business. Okay. Budgetary stuff. And we had no like crazy ask um for you to be here. We're just aware that we had some funds and it sounded significant. Um, do you happen to have that total that we have in that? Yes, it's uh $18,5925. Uh, that's uh those are my numbers. Our auditors um have an a number that is uh

overstated. I think about $57. I think that's for me 22. Um but we're looking about $18,500. It sounded from the reaction of the um Department of Marine Resources representative, she was pretty shocked, like positively shocked in a good way that because she said a lot of um communities money is the problem. So, we kind of have an inverse situation and we just really don't have a very strong commercial um resource for plant harvesting, shellfish harvesting, but we do have I think we sold in the teens or low 20s for recreational um harvester people. Um so we have kind of a nent or you know uh industry happening but I don't think there's any reason um and this isn't anything directed to you. I just we're not I don't think we should come up with an excuse to just spend money because we have it. But I think that there could be some maybe yeah there could be and if we don't come did you happen to think of any you know avenues that we might spend a small you know and I didn't need I didn't do that homework either but you you know I did I I made some suggestions well the one you know like you know and I wouldn't want to take a huge unless there was a really um really strong um cause I wouldn't want really take a big bite. Um, what here's a question like so if and I don't know if you even know this but like would if we came up with a pro a program or project that we wanted to allocate some funds to and then we would present that to the um select board the select board yeah for approval. Yeah. So, um, Claire talked to me about that and just if you guys had come up with anything that you wanted to kind of pursue, um, it will probably wouldn't be in this next select board

meeting, but the one after that being June 2nd. Okay. Would be the one to go to. And then the deadline for submissions for that would be on the 29th. Okay. All good to know. I don't think there's anything. Fortunately, we're kind of in a good situation because we're trying to find something constructive. Um and if it's not if it doesn't come from us, maybe we can engage with some other um people in the community and or um organizations. But I would be since Earl had you mentioned that the traditional thing goes right to like we have done attempted there has been attempted like seed stocking of clan seed on the flats program but I don't really feel like we're interested in fighting on to that right now but that shouldn't put us in neutral to not do anything. So I would be in favor of like and I don't know how it would be approved and other people but even anything shoreline coastal set up on the one that we can climb in the wonder where it won't be some people. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly, Earl. That the access issue and well I fig is closed all over it years for the simple reason the people didn't want it open. Yeah. Well, I I I was trying to come up with hands- on thing, you know, and things like um I know time is a different story because I'm not women or anyone. Well, it's something simple. Well, I know some of the other communities a common like a lowhanging fruit thing that committees have done and I see they are around is to um help pay for say like a dog waste kiosk and I see they're around there and that's because any dog waste going into the waterways is like pretty horrific as far as bacterial levels and like I see they're around and I don't like seeing more signage but I see like the one

right here in the parking lot it's like been plowed over and it's in rough shape and I'm sure the town has budget to probably do that but Maybe that would be a a lowhanging fruit type way that us as a committee could say, "Oh, gez, how much is that sign in that post that's crushed and maybe we could, you know, sponsor replacing that or something." I'm not trying to do, you know, but anything that short. And the other thing that kind of came to mind was, and I don't, this is a little bit more of an egg to hatch, but is um and I don't know what the fish hack in uh Otter Creek there. Really got rimracked by that storms and it's leaning a lot. And I just didn't know if and I'm talking like a couple hundred dollars, not thousands. I didn't know if maybe something I know there's a lot of photographs taken of that and that's like kind of our fishing heritage and even though it's not particularly maybe directly shellfish related it would be maybe we could sponsor that being leveled and stabilized or something if that was even possible correct me if I'm wrong who holds that I think the creek historical society if I understand it properly so there's a whole whole bunch of integration that would potentially happen but I just trying to literally like food for thought of ways that we might engage with the community with coastal um themed improvement in mind. That was and that was um that was kind of really the only piece that I really had to say and I didn't know if anybody else had any training for all which was a good suggestion as well. Yes, I like that. Yes, true. Having more eyes on the flask is the most important thing. We'll have to teach we'll have to buy him a pair of green crab stomping boots. So, I have I have a couple questions.

So, first of all, um the with the regard to the uh dog waist uh posts I I guess. Uh yes, thank you. Um I believe our public works department or building round has that appropriate in our budget. Yeah, I think you need to use your job funds specifically for that. I would check um I I would we could the town has funds to be able to cover that that are not restricted to shish. Um I would double check that, but I probably we want I recommend you use funds that are restricted specifically for Shopish, which is why $18,000 is for Okay, good to know. Um and so u there's that. And then two, um we do have um every year in the budget there is about $33,000. Last year it was 3,400 and before that was 3,200. Um that is appropriated for the shellfish department. It is it is it falls under the police department warrant article. I don't know um if you are familiar with this. I'm not very familiar. I just know that it's appropriated every year. Uh this year I think for 20 2026 we had $3,400 specifically that's that's the warranted service. So that's that if you're talking about war and training that is an appropriation that I'm not positive what it's used for. We haven't used it in several years I think since fiscal year 24 I think or sorry fiscal year 22. Um there was uh there were I believe um expenditures for boarding uh equipment I I believe is the last time uh that that was used out of the out of the not the restricted funds that we're referring to the the role they carry forward that we do every year um which I

only have dated back to fisc year 21 and fiscal year 21 um that's where I can see that our our audited financials have is it was $15,000 balance and then we've increased it over the last um several years to this 18 almost 186 um 18,600. Um and so but but outside of the actual this fund balance that we're talking about here for specifically for shellfish um within the general operating budget there's $3,400 and I believe that's as you said used for warden expenses. Um I'm not so long as I I'm not totally sure like what the covenant is um whether there's something within her charter that has a a state specific uh purpose um rules for using these funds. Um but if it's for the warden we do have I think at least $3,000 in the 26 and actually in the 25 budget currently. Um, so I mean if you're talking I guess it would be interesting to see how the police department decides to use that. They don't have any. Yes. So for the last few years since we haven't had there's been there's been no use of those songs whatsoever. So, it's kind of kind of a symptom of like the legacy. We like Claire would describe and mentioned to Evan, we used to have a line of harvesters to wait for and now that the industry has reduced that's not really the case, but we have these legacy procedures like warden allocate fund allocation still in place to address the number of so there's kind of a pivot there and I don't know and then just to backtrack and cover my own tail a little bit like about like lowhanging fruit things about the signage and stuff like that is That's great to know. And I figured and I'm not going to like beat that force to death at all. But I know

in some communities that didn't have that program, that is something the shellfish committee sponsor to get it like going type in communities that maybe didn't have those funds. So I was just trying to grasp something to No, I was a great idea. I guess we'll have to use those funds for that. And I I'm actually appreciating we're lucky that you showed up too. I'm very glad. Looks like a money has been acrewing for quite a while. Yeah. Yes. So there sounds like there's some type of am I understanding this correct? There's a potentially a little bit of a disconnect between the there's funds being allocated but they're not being accessed by the what if the warden funds because we haven't well we don't know we won't say why because but we know that maybe our pressure is off and we don't have as much control but the funds are still being allocated we were budgeting for for for shellfish so it sounds like there's something that a disconnect there that we could yeah maybe with the police department. I I don't know if Dave or the police chief um is very involved with uh warden services. Well, it's kind of a good sign that we're not like, oh my gosh, we have the we have all this going on and have the warrants here saying like we have a bunch of bad things happening. So, in that way, it's kind of that is I think I think it's there if needed. I think that's why we've been budgeting for for every year. original idea was kind of privatizing private citizens to get war training. I always mentioned that other communities have looked into that, not just getting a police officer, but a private citizen or a harvester. I don't know, Brian had mentioned that

once. I mean, but the idea is checked around that, you know, that money could go towards training at the police academy every year when they have the shelf for if somebody wanted to get that certification where you could pay. Yeah. And if it provided the more public safety type training, I think that would be a great thing. Uh, but I'm just wondering in your opinion, David, like my opinion, and but I'm not out there stomping around is I just feel like our because of our reduced re resource, the pressure of of poaching is a bit less. Yeah, I'll get I'll get into that later because I've done quite a quite a bunch of stuff surveys so I can brief you on some areas preserve. Well, and just, you know, you are correct. Yeah. So if there's less I I just it's just an idea flow vessel. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to you know stay proportional with the need. Um if it's less poaching potential that we're facing. Um well yeah seen the poach. They took just two weeks to dig southwest the main. So yeah, we wouldn't want the program to go like away because something could change clamps and low clamps in two weeks because of what Earl's kind of talking about. So I'm not sure where this lead us keep an eye out. Good discussion just in case there might be a few times we want to have for someone down and dig a bush of a cl and enjoy it in their old age. Mhm. He said, "Digging the bushel of clams and enjoyable." For the record. Now, do you can you read into this what

she's kind of like what what we've kind of brought up like where we don't we have this allocation happening, but we don't have active wardens. like what might we I'm not asking for a solution right now, but it sounds like it's a good thing over the summer to just ask each one of them for us for what I believe maybe come up with ideas for the future. I think you a rundown of the expenses that have been charged to that account. Um the general fund account that it's the for the $3,400. I think it's your rundown of in the years past what we have said was boots or something for that funded money to build build crab traps. Of course they've got the resource to have the reason to protect grace. So that's Yeah. So, what I'm hearing from you is that basically we really want to be stay I mean obviously but I was trying to spread the wings a little bit but our funds restricted funds are basically most likely going to be approve allocated specifically for shellfish. Correct. So, we're going to have to stay on focus and try to figure out a way for some type of enhancement for shellfish in some way, which we should, but it seems kind of a bit daunting. So, it seems easier to take bite around the edges of it, I think. Um, but I think we're going to have to knock our heads together. And I mean, we what it's like the opposite of the problem that most people have, most committees, like most committees are like, "Oh, we really would love to do this, but we have no funds." We're like we have funds but we don't have much idea of a productive way to engage them with a resource because of it being kind of reduced activity. We've had that problem with the southern town program. It's just we've got plenty of area to do things but we all as

harvesters know that the majority of them now with the grass issue and the climate change issues no longer work. brushing tends to for the most part be a big waste of time to most people's mind. you anecdotally I always want my father mentioned like in the 70s the green crab is show um with fencing like uh like wire fencing did did you was that a thing like around the mouth of the cold there grab they're making fertilizer through you have big rain species but you have multiple small virgins invading armies like the Huns. Well, I I think that's a productive discussion about the budgetary situation and to be aware of how the allocations um are being made and not directly utilized I think is what we want to focus on for I have no issues Greg's very honest making an effort to find out whether the police department has night vision loss because if you've got night harvesters So those night vision glasses will get you get you violations pretty quick. That's a good point. And what I like about stuff like that is it equipped something like that is it could be used for not only for shel but it could be a safety enhancement. So um something like that is um we should engage we should engage like you said and see maybe a way that we could support. Well, I I don't there was maybe going to be a surprise guest, but he hasn't graced us with his presence today. So,

before that occurs, uh I'm going to Do we have any other business? Victor, you scold us about anything? I can hear you. Um thinking that maybe spending some money to improve access for people that aren't uh used to slipping and sliding down the bank or taking a long boat ride to go somewhere to dig. There's really not too many spots cleaning out the you can do that. Yeah. So elaborating on what Victor's kind of mentioning there was he was wondering if you know potential of like maybe simple stairs in a location if there was an open area to uh right help for access or something like that down to the shore they remove that area. I know the town in that stairs were there. I don't know what's standing there. I know the town doing the re planning or whatever the 10 year plan is look was looking to identify access spots. So maybe when we see the different access spots are actually highlighted maybe there could be some type of discussion about improving the physical nothing um extravagant but that was just a suggestion that Victor had. Well, thank you, Victor Brian, chasing kids around. I think we're uh honing in on if we don't have any other business. Yeah. I mean, the only other thing on like what Victor was talking about is um you know, unless you want to create any type of signage too to for that.

Yeah, that's a that of like I was almost thinking about that like if we get find out where the town has identified as the traditional town owned shore access spots. Maybe there is some type of signage that shelf is oriented that would be appropriate depending on what that specific site is. But again, I kind of don't I think over signage is kind of visual pollution. But if you're Yeah. No, I I think I think you're right there, Rusty. But at least if it was if you improve access with staircase or path or something like that, have some sort of little signage so people know what it's for and they're not, you know, getting into issues with uh getting on other people's property um and going wrong directions or something like that. I think there might be a subtle way to do it, but just an idea. Yeah, absolutely. sort of um and Gary Moore's walked down by way back there. Yeah. No, so I'm we had that discussion at one and I believe that it's in an easement that was set up by Main Coast Heritage. So I think it's a private land owner that has father. Yeah. And that and and she was really she described that really well. The way I interpret it was that the landowner was not required to provide I mean if you picture if you were the landowner the land owner is not required to provide shore access but is not also at the in the same breath they don't also have to block that. So it's essentially saying like you don't have to provide um which I would if I was a land owner the way it

was. So I understood it. It sounded a little sketchy but really it was the most reasonable solution. So the answer is uh an easement setup I made goes to those private owners back if I understand correctly. Liability issues there is for public using the land like that with an easement somebody else. Well yeah absolutely and that's why Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I think if we were to look at a list of where the town identifies as most likely shore access spots and then some of them might be town owned and maybe it wouldn't be the ideal spot for harvest but maybe it would be a spot to provide and but that is a cool thing about this type of um this industry is it provides a shore access to people that and a reason to be on the shore which I think is healthy and good for people to do even if they're not commercially like digging. So, I think that's part of the legacy of the shellfish industry is that there can be some shore access, a tether of shore access preserved. And I I think that has some value even if there's not dollars being like removed from. Yeah. Places that kind of have public access that are hard to get down to like that. If youreased it, made it easier, you're also increasing the usage, right? So, that's the problem. And Victor mentions that You would definitely have to have signage like Hen Point because Haden Point has historically had due to issues that almost closed, right? Because of the increased usage. Well, some some So, a kiosk if if there was ever a time when that co would get a little help with the stairs in there, you would definitely have to put up signs to warn the public to dog waste contaminate your shoreline and your glass and possibly blows it.

Yeah. Put it next to the people, you know. Yeah. That's and half of them would be clam diggers, you know, sports type thing for young people would really enjoy. I've been on that bicycles and I put this stuff in here and ride down to the store and get some gray. You can't afford to buy them. Well, what do you think of all the small? Good to me. I think there's a lot to, you know, explore here for sure. Yeah, a lot of potential. It's just they're not just need like you know we have the funds to get them back so to speak. Yeah. Right. So finding a use for them is a is a I think worthy uh worthy goal and perhaps you know something that should be moved on. Hash hashed out. Hashed out. Yeah. Yeah. And the low stakes that we're talking about, you know, low stakes because of the balance that's for, you know, it's been accumulating over several years. The the signs to just act as a supplement to the already established waste bag kiosks, just adding something next to it that says, "Thank you so much. This this helps save our clamation." Um, so it it wouldn't be as much of an expense to create the actual kiosk and it's only existence but to add it's a supplemental sign for information. that it's probably very very low risk use the the funds and sounds like under the umbrella of being directly engaged with a shelter that and then you know leasing the police office you know seeing you know what what they would need and you know what what they you know can provide I

guess would be you know next steps as well those are the 3,000 uh three to $3,000 that we per year around their budget. Uh that is outside of this uh fund balance that has been occurring over the past several years. The 3,000 is a nearly reach the budget. Well, very kind of Yeah. Well, so just for your reference, Rusty, back in March, you would ask a question. I got an answer for why why the harbor was closed. So there was a pump station failure that closed the harbor for 21 days from March 26 through March 27th. Mhm. That was why the harbor got closed but didn't close that was forced. So just a shortterm it was a short-term closure from failure oil. Have you been out to see the fire in the harbor? Vic is asking what's the status of Gilgatrick? You ever dug over there? Crossing the harbor. Where the grass was climb that goes out when you going down, right? Oh, yeah. That used to be one good spot and they love that mud in there. They have some good place to grow. Well, before we adjourn, just to address and I don't have anything to say really to address Victor's um question about Gil Patrick. The answer, my answer is I don't know. I don't know where we are with that. Um I was really I wasn't at all leaning on Brian, but Brian was uh taking the wheel

because he had the time and and had made some headway with that and I I didn't really follow up with that. So yeah, there's there's too too many people saying not my problem, it's their problem. It's not their problem. It's my problem. It's their problem. No, nobody can give a definitive answer other than the the pumping station in the vicinity. That area is got to stay closed because of the regulations that exist. And until the regulations can be modified or adjusted slightly to open that open that small area this hell on earth to get and does that include the discussion of like holding the acreage in buffer and how the exact Yeah. And since there's a radius around around the station, whether it's working or it's physically existing, it's hard. It's hard to get an area like that closed because down park station that four mile radius around it will never open. So the song because it leads but because it physically it's there. The song sounds similar or the same with locations like just we just keep pressing that's that's all we can do bring water all the way back and ask him you know would you like an update how come this can't move forward I agree with Victor well done that co got open all right well I think I'm going to uh yeah David got I did I did do some heavy surveys up in the south over the last Everything everything basically from psychic point northward and westward and

eastward sometime is really dead. I finally got it. Oh crap. Mason boy Mason Cove and that that area it's just dead. Yeah. When I was shocked. The other thing that's interesting is like Sergeant Cove uh I always remember muscles. There's not even muscles in Sergeant. No, it really it really cuz these because these erosive storms have really done severe damage to a lot of these areas that had no way of back flushing water. when those storms came up into the harbor that that was nothing to to delete them, they just crushed some of these, you you know, horror damage. But I was shocked with Mason Boy and Mason Cove. They just dead. I could I could have came out of there with me last. I also checked the uh the coville by Mount Zur campground which is the one you see from the highway to the right right there and that that area I couldn't I couldn't have harvested five pounds plants behind the island there between the campground and the island exactly towards towards and it's like beautiful habitat you would think un unbelievable there should there should be a thousand bushes of land sitting in that bond and There was nothing. No. I zigzagged it and went as far out the web sound sound started to break. I worked my way eastward towards the railway railway station. And other than one little spot and might have been able to get 30 pounds out of, there's no reason for us

to even ever consider it as harvestable or to even tell the shellfish more deep. So, no evidence of hard shell like cherry stone. I've studied that there's no there's no reason I'm serious lease and all that. There's no reason that that all would waste his time in that hawker. Yeah. So, one phenomena we've discussed is that the cherry stone type plants are harder shell. They seem to be more resistant to the green crab situation as compared to the little neck like regular plants, soft shell plants that we harvest. So there's a little hope there that they're sort of those the hard shell clams are taking appearing in places where they traditionally weren't. So something's hopefully going to fill that temperature. Yeah. And they can also for that any other toys on that. No, that's not much other mud. Not much other mud or dirt or even soil. It's substrate and sound to I You're right. Exactly. It's very hard for long as it's gr pulverized granite. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard even though a clan gi given given an inch will survive in two inches of mud but or rock. But there the last time I was in there was probably 25 years ago. Not much has changed other than the fact it was cut severely worse. It's just it's gone. Needs to be rode off. for some reason ever consider it again. I was really shocked. Uh Vic had another um comment here. I believe it would be about Gilpatrick Cove. Uh would be a great spot for early access or easy access improvement. Maybe the committee could help or hire help

navigating the process to reopening. I thought last word from DMR sounded like changes had been made to allow it to open if tests passed. your question. Yeah. Gary M was closed for obsidian once. Well, once upon a time. Yeah, he did. I didn't mind there talking to Hannah. So, there's those there those ways of tweaking a closure. Yeah. And it's as she said, how much effort have you got to do to tweak the closure and how much cost is involved versus what are you actually getting out of it per for per harvesting? So that's a lot of times DMR will look at a project like that and say what are we getting out of this in the long run. So, hypothetically, if uh we came up to a hurdle with an opening of a location hypothetically like Gilpatrick and DMR said, "Oh, it's going to cost $2,000 to do this test. We don't have it in the budget." Would that possibly be something like if we were sure if that would be something potentially that we Yeah. could maybe use funds for. So, that's that's I think that's a great use for I would confirm with the state. Yeah. I would probably want their appending. Yes, you get it. Yeah. Right. That's the bad part of the shelfish committee. We we uh we technically serve a higher power without their approval. Gotcha. Nothing moves. Yes. So, I'm not entirely sure or familiar with with the process of like the expenditure of these funds, but I would guess probably getting approval from the state to use them and then asking approval from the select board. I'm guessing that's probably the order in which to do that. Yeah. And um if you were putting something forward before the select board, they would probably

want at least one of you guys to come and speak to it, answer any questions that they had and confirm the state as approved. Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, for sure. It would probably be a good usage of our time. God forbid we all have it to do a good physical surve get the state's approval for a one day grid survey of that cove and do a mathematical assessment of what's in there. estimation of the yield in that cove because they're gonna want to know Hannah and the other biologist biologists have gone in there haven't seen as much as they had three years goes back. So in other words if there was no Yeah. So in other words if there was no fruit to bear then there would be no reason to put in there. Exactly. Because the ribbon warrants they they got in there which my it would take me 10 10 minutes of flipping the mud over to find that out. And if they got in there waste to three months the whole which I guess was probably half already. We heard you for a second. Nothing's coming through. We did that survey already and that was funny enough for commercial especially enough for recreational har how long ago was that survey done you think I would guess probably four or five years but you don't have to have a pile of clams to want to have clean water that's that's an added bonus selfish down

there commercial amount. Yeah. To repeat what Victor just said, you don't have to have a huge commercial resource to want to have the water quality standard be elevated. And I think this committee, everyone on this committee would agree with that statement. I think that was just how much the state's willing to put out like I said for what a lot amount of resources in there because she said it specifically to I know things change quick so if he's talking in five years I mean there could be a total change in the amount of resource in there I would tell you that's probably the case I wish I had a little more time and I would have gone through there and just done a visual survey I don't think we could blame it on poachers either No, no, not at all. No, I know. It's crazy. It's showing how many different factors are. Well, it's terrible to know that cultures had been even touched to the place. It was felt by mother nature. Yes. Well, yeah. From Brian here, too. Uh I agree with Victor. I would it would be great to get someone from DMR in the state to help point us uh in the right direction. When I spoke with uh when I spoke with Grace Hannah and Dave with DMR in the state, they were not very helpful. Maybe Hannah Annis could help facilitate a conversation with the correct people. He's Yeah, he's absolutely right. Hannah is little small steps. Yeah. A big ask sometimes as far we've been trying. Well, I we had but but Brian did make a lot of good headway. He did more than all of us. So small steps still have value is what I'm going to go with. All right. Well, just re look at it the ball and pressure a few people. 45 minutes of pain here. We don't seem

to know much too much else. Um I think I'm going to just expedite if if nothing else. I'm going to I'm going to make a motion for adjournment. Second favor. Right. Thank you uh Brian and Victor for gracing us with your presence.