Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

He's in China. It was supposed to be next week, I think. Or anyway, he told me it was changed when we had our I don't remember it was before the theme or after, but it got switched. did upper level residential. Oh, city of Plymouth. Plymouth Township Planning Commission meeting will come to order at 6:30. And if our acting secretary slash vice chair will please call roll. Dennis Sabolski

here. Tim Boyd here. Steuart Pop excused. Bob Dor Chevitz. Excused. David Lawwick here. Dan Callahan here. Bill Ikes. Thrilled to be here. Yes. There we are. Thank you. We have the approval of this evening's agenda. I have no uh changes or additions. So, is there a motion to approve as submitted? Uh Mr. Chair, I move we approve. The agenda is submitted. Second. Moved by Commissioner Boyd and uh seconded by Commissioner Callahan to approve the agenda submitted. All in favor signify by saying I.

I. opposed. Motion carries and the approval of uh the meeting of December 10th. I have no I have one question, Dennis. Right. And [snorts] I was scaring to get through customs and made it here. So, I missed the first topic, but what I was trying to understand is we've had this before and it was trying to go from commercial to industrial, right? We had some push back from residents nearby and it looks like it passed to go to industrial. Is that accurate? Which which one are you the very first topic? Item number to be specific PC 2558 Hagy Road conditional reszoning that

the developer wasn't really showing their hand which had caused some nervousness right before on what it could or couldn't be right the um yeah we voted they would uh to recommend denial of the denial denial here okay I didn't read it that way but that's why I to bring it up. So, I wanted to make sure I understood because that's what I thought they explained to me, but it it didn't jump out at me, but if that's the case, I'm okay. Okay, good. Any other questions? Is there a motion to approve the minutes as submitted? Uh, Mr. Chair, I move we approve the minutes of December 10th meeting as submitted. Second.

Move by Commissioner Aoy and supported by Commissioner Ladwick to approve uh the December 10th 25 minutes. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed? Motion carries. And public comments for any non-aggenda items. So, is there anyone here that wishes to speak on a non-aggenda item? When do you know, Sandy, to come to a meeting and not speak? I always speak. I'm not sure if your mic is on. I can I don't think I think it's on. Just you got to really lean into it. Is it Is this better?

Yeah. The purpose of my attendance primarily tonight was to thank and congratulate Bob Dorvich for his many years of service on the planning commission, but he didn't show up. I was going to have everyone do a round of applause and thank him for his years of service. I also want to thank those other of you who have long term on the planning commission. This is not an easy task. It's not an easy job. And um I was reading an article today from EDR which is economic development responsibility alliance. And they speak to the need for citizen public private partnerships so that we can facilitate local entrepreneurs, community-led projects and even family-owned agriculture. So, um I on Tuesday night, um Supervisor Kermy will be recommending me as the new liaison to the planning commission. So, if I get enough votes, you're all stuck with me and you're going to have to deal with me. Um but I thought it would be nice to thank Bob before he exits because I don't know how long he's been on, but it's been a very, very long time. So, and I thank all of you as well. Thank you. Okay.

Thank you. Thank you. Any other comments? Okay, we'll move on. We have a public hearing for application 2588. Um 57817 5mile road at the tractor supply are here for a special land use and planner. Not sure who's going to give the report, but go at it.

Thank you, Chair Sabolski. Um, good evening planning commission commissioners part with McKenna. Um, as chair Sabolski said before you tonight is a request for approval of a special land use for a 22,000 square foot tractor supply retail building with an outdoor display area. Uh, the IMD district allows commercial and service uses subject to special land use approval. And tonight's review is specifically for the special land use. The applicant will come back for a site plan review at a later date. Um the subject site's currently vacant and it's surrounded by um industrial zone property as well as existing commercial uses including Meyer uh Alcar [snorts] Wash which is going through their final site plan and Home Depot to the west. And I put up on the screen um just this development area. So you can see the Meyer development, uh, Tractor Supply just east of that, Alc Car Wash north of that, and then we'll also be discussing the credit union tonight. So I wanted you guys to have an overall picture of just this section of five the five mile corridor.

And I appreciate the renderings that I had asked you to supply uh was at our place uh this evening, renderings of the of the Meyers and and the site plan so we can put these other applications in context. [snorts]

So getting into the special land use criteria, the uh picture on the the projector is the site plan for the tractor supply. Uh just so you have your bearings. Uh so criteria one, location, size, character, and harmony with the area. Again, the surrounding properties are designated industrial under both the zoning ordinance and the future land use map. Tractor Supply is considered a low inensity commercial use and it does fit in with the emerging pattern of the commercial services in this corridor area of five mile. Uh the building is set back from 5m and its visibility is reduced by that distance and the surrounding development. [snorts] The outdoor display area uh will be located internally so just right behind the building on the east side of the building uh which is limiting visibility from the public roadways and that helps with the minimizing the visual impact of that outdoor storage area and given the surrounding industrial and active commercial uses we don't find that this use will be detrimental to the adjacent uh development.

Liz, could you speak just a little louder? Yes.

Thank you. Uh from a master plan perspective, the 2015 future land use map identifies this area as light industrial. Uh and while the industrial designation, the corridor already function as a commercial transition area again with the uses of Meyer, Alcar Wash, and then further east with the Home Depot and a few more commercial areas or commercial uses. Uh, regarding natural features, uh, the site does currently contain mature tree cover and a tree survey was submitted, but it does lack sufficient detail to fully evaluate. Um, so we are recommending a condition that that full survey is provided during the site plan and the applicant has already stated that they'll get that to us. Uh, criteria two, public health, safety, and welfare. Again, this is a low inensity retail use. Uh there is limited noise and there are controlled operational hours. Setbacks and buffing standards will help protect surrounding properties. And again, the outdoor display area is fenced and it's clearly organized limiting potential impacts and fire and engineering reviews will occur during the site plan review. Criteria three, public services and facilities. Uh the site will be served by existing public water, sanitary sewer, and storm water infrastructure, specifically storm water. They're connecting into the Meyers uh storm water system just west in the west area of this property. Uh special or criteria for vehicular circulation and traffic safety. So, access to the site comes through uh Meyer Drive, which is just north of where the you can kind of see it on this. It's the curve that leads into where there's the turn signal, turn arrows. Um that's the access drive which is functioning as a

private internal road network to this entire development. [snorts] Um and there's two proposed access points. one share a shared driveway out car wash to the north and then a second driveway further west on the site. Uh spacing standards for these access points don't apply to private road roads but engineering will review the circulation and make sure that the safety during the site plan process from a pedestrian connectivity standpoint. The applicant proposes uh an external sidewalk on the access road to the west of the site and that connects into the Meyer Drive just north of it and into the Meer site. And from there you can see that there's a internal pedestrian access from that way leading onto the site and then from there you have access through the parking lot to the actual site building. Um but we but the applicant's not proposing one along the Meyer Drive where both the accesses are and in reference to the LC car wash which is just north of it. We did ask them to put a sidewalk on that. So we asked that you discuss whether sidewalk should be required along here. Um because if we're requiring al car wash to do it, that sidewalk is just going to stop there and there's no more connectivity there. It just kind of dead ends. Um so in to uh avoid gaps in the pedestrian network, it might be best to recommend a sidewalk along there. Um criteria five, safety and compatibility of use. Um tractor supply does not involve hazardous materials or industrial processes. Uh and again the outdoor display is a smallcaled fence internally located and it's not expected to impact traffic or the adjacent uses. Then

lighting buffering and circulation standards. Uh they'll be addressed during the site plan review but uh staff sees that it's intended to minimize conflicts and uh the use is expected to blend well with the surrounding area. Criteria six, compliance with general site development standards. As I stated before, um a full compliance will be evaluated during the site plan review, but it does appear capable of meeting the requirements in article 29. And then specific use standards found in section 19.2 of retail is considered a service use and that is consistent with the intent of the industrial district. The proposed use will not impair adjacent development as surrounding parcels are already in commercial nature and share similar car site characteristics. So we do find that the site shape, size and layout will not hinder the future development of any of the adjacent parcels and even the one to the south which is part of the MITC parcels. Um so we are recommending approval of the special land use request tonight um with two conditions. Approval of a full site plan addressing all planning and fire and engineering comments and then the submission of a complete tree survey at the time of of the site plan review. Um that's my presentation. I'm happy to take questions and the applicant's representative uh John Hower is here tonight.

Okay. and the applicant is here and you have a presentation or [clears throat] Good evening. My name is John Hower. I'm with PA Group representing the project tonight. Uh I don't have a presentation. Uh absolutely can answer questions if anything comes up. U looking forward to getting past this step and getting on the February agenda for site plans. Okay. Well, I can lead off with a few and then we'll turn it over. Um, on the tree survey, I had a question. Who who did the tree survey?

We did. The tree survey is complete. It was just a simple error that it didn't get included and submitted. So, I've talked to Liz about it. I can simply email it to her. So, is this an arborist that looked at it? I mean, how Yes, our professional ecological department went out there and did the tree survey. Yep.

Okay. [clears throat] and uh on the outdoor display areas. So, I understand you're going to have storage behind the building, but you're going to have this also in front of the building. Yeah. Uh Tractor Supply uh typically has uh like a display area in front of the building where they might have, you know, riding mowers. Similar if you go to Home Depot, right? You see uh certain pieces of equipment that they're just kind of displaying. [snorts]

Are you going I I looked at the Tractor Supply website. Uh do you plan on selling ammunition at this site? I don't believe so. I can't I I can't speak on authority on that, but we can if it something important, we can address it during the site plan. Okay. So, do they is there another process if a business sells ammunition in the zoning ordinance or not that I'm aware of, but we can look into it. Okay.

And what is the purpose of uh you know, we had that discussion about the sidewalks. Uh why don't you want to connect up with the

Yeah, it's not a deal breaker. In fact, I was not aware that El Carwash was going to have a sidewalk on their side of the road. Honestly, if you look at the sidewalk connection that we do show, there is a lot of grade difference on this property. It's kind of a leftover, I don't want to say leftover, but it's an outlot that's uh longer than it is deep. It's not ideal for commercial use. Normally, a retail development would want to have the front of their store facing the main road. we're kind of tucked behind, but it's a destination retail spot. So, you know, from the developer standpoint, he was willing to look past that. Um, you sidewalk connectivity. The the one that we are showing connecting to to Meyer, you know, we could simply bring that along. We we've got very little frontage. So, if you look at the west property line, that darker line is a retaining wall because of the grade difference. So, that's why we didn't simply make a connection to the Meyer sidewalk there. we chose this diagonal location, but if it's easier to just uh run it along our property line, I don't know, we can work out the details whether that would be just inside our property or just inside the Meer property. It's not a public road right away. Um, but yeah, if if there's an issue with leaving El Carwash with a dead end sidewalk, I mean, it it probably does make sense to just simply take what we've shown [clears throat] and, you know, parallel with that arked property line there.

And what what will you be storing uh in the outdoor storage in the back?

Um, not an expert on tractor supply. Uh the developer certainly will be able to answer that, but um you know, similar to what you might see at a Home Depot, I I've been to a couple tractor supplies, but you know, it would be feed, animal feed, um containers, uh irrigation equipment, the normal stuff that they honestly sell inside, but just it's bulkier. Uh it's whatever they're going to have outside would be weather resistant and just you know [snorts] more shopping area or more visible display of their product that they're selling. Do

you know how high up the uh the storage would be would be exceeding the fence? I don't I don't believe it would be any higher than the building than the building. Did you say? Yeah, that's what I Oh, because I'm using again you use the example of uh Home Depot. So, when they were approved, you know, they have their outdoor storage. You can see it from the front. Yours is not going to be quite as visible. So, they are restricted that they can go uh they cannot go higher than what the fence is, which is pretty high. It's probably as high as the building, I think. Um, so I'm not sure if you would want to have a larger fence or if that's permitted.

I'll mention that to the architect and the developer and see if that's a concern of theirs. We'd certainly comply with and you know, I guess I appreciate. Yeah, if the height of the fence is the dictator, we can reach a certain height to maximize that storage. I'm sure they'd probably choose to do that. That a consideration we should uh look at in granting special land use. We can do that with the site plan. Uh fencing would be under your perview for that to allow a higher fence. Oh, okay. Okay. Anyone else? I had a couple questions. Go ahead. But Commissioner Bord, go ahead first.

I just want to interject. Can we reflect in the meeting notes that uh Commissioner Dorchevich joined the meeting at 6:45? Good. Thank you. Go ahead, Bob. Welcome, Bob. Sorry, I fell asleep. [snorts] I was going to I was going to come up with a really good story, but [laughter] the pillow wrinkles on [clears throat] my cheek. Too much snow. I was shoveling snow from the little old ladies in the [laughter] neighborhood. You're a good man. Community service. That's great.

Okay, couple things. Um, where are the two heritage trees? That's the first question. All I have to go on is this right are in the back. I'm hoping that is any possibility to save one of them. Uh the well we are saving if you look at the east portion of the property it's a like I said oddly shaped parcel that got kind of left over. I think what happened was Ratico developed it sold it to Meyer Meyer took the portion of the property that they wanted and left over you know a couple parcels l car wash being one and then uh tractor supply here. So we've got green you know ample amount of green space and we are saving trees uh in that

which is good. But the specific question is where are those two heritage trees? Because as I look at this little map, there's stuff in that corner back there. And if one of them is on the west corner, man, I'd like to save one of the two if all possible. Okay, so that's that's something I want you to take away. Second one is the site does say they sell ammunition, which I think is fantastic. It's hard to find. Number one, we have a shooting range in the township on the west end called Western Wayne County Conservation Association, right? Where they do sell ammo also. So we should have the planners verify that. But if this is a store that can sell ammo, [snorts] God bless you. Okay? It's a second amendment right and you can't bear an arm if it's not loaded. So that being the case, my third question here is the sidewalks that connect to nowhere. Okay. [clears throat] Don't know how it happened in the township, but there's a a big push by the supervisor and our treasurer to get them connected. So, we want to make sure not only is all the car wash connected, but the one to Meyer because if employers are working there, they're probably more apt to go to Meyer to get something to eat or take a break or walk around or whatever, right? So, uh please make sure you connect both. And I don't want people slipping and falling going downhill. I wiped out and smashed my shoulder last Thursday. So, uh tucking on the property line, if it's safe, great. If not, right, it's a lesser grade. I didn't have an issue where that was. Um, so it'd be nice to see, you know, pictures on updated plans on on connecting the sidewalks and where those trees are. I think it's great you have a corner on the east that's keeping what's there, but we're very particular about heritage trees here. We treat them as residents. Okay. They were here way before any of us were. No further questions.

Anyone else?

Um, just a comment on sidewalks. Um [snorts] I I just want to see us be consistent across all the properties on this uh tract of land. Um I also think we need to think in terms of our neighbors just to the north of Five Mile. There is a fair amount of residential development in that corner and I can envision some people from that walking uh from that development to Meyer directly by Tractor Supply. Hopefully some of them to Tractor Supply themselves. So, I would be in favor of of having that sidewalk reflected. And we'll also come back to this when we talk about the the credit union later. So, I want to see us be consistent uh across and if we decide not to do this here, then we should take it off the old car wash as well, but I would prefer to keep the sidewalk. Okay.

Just one other comment. I think this is an excellent use of this piece of land and uh a nice retailer to join the Plymouth Township community. So, the tough shape and if you you snuck it in, right? Just I'm hoping you can save one of the two trees, right? We'll certainly do our best. Yeah. So, if you get your dough at the credit union, you can go get your tractor supplied, then go get your car wash, then get something to eat at Meyer and it's a it's a good day. Yeah.

The residents are literally right across the street in North Township. So a question for the planner. So on the special land use, you always like to see a statement. So uh we can consider this communication from your group, the PIA group that this is what we're approving. Is there a statement that they've submitted? So unless you have any questions on this, this is really what we're addressing. Okay. Any other questions, comments? Are we ready for Oh, we have to have the um hearing the uh public hearing. So, who would like to make the motion to open the public hearing at uh 653?

Mr. Chair, I move we open the public hearing on PC 2588 at 653. Second. Moved by Commissioner Bing, supported by Commissioner Lick to open the public hearing at 653. Is there anyone here that wishes to speak on this application? Okay. Hearing none. Is there a motion to close the public hearing at 6:54? Mr. Chair, I move we close the public hearing at 654. Support. Second. Okay. Moved by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Callahan to close the public hearing. [clears throat] All in favor signify by saying I. I.

Opposed. Motion carries. Are we ready for a motion? I think so. Okay. Okay, Mr. Chair, I move that uh we recommend the planning commission special land use application number PC2588 for retail building and outdoor display area for tractor supply at 5 Mile Road with the following conditions. One, approval of a site plan which addresses all planning, fire, and engineering requirements. and two a full tree survey submitted with the site plan.

You should say as uh the uses as submitted as okay as December 17 by the PA group. Yeah. As submitted by PA group on December 17th. Is there support? Can can you restate that one more time? I just want to make sure I followed all the the conditions you had in there. Okay. Please. Thank you.

Sure. Okay. Um recommend that we uh approve the special land use application PC 2588 for retail building and outdoor display area for tractor supply at 5mile road with the following conditions. Number one, approval of a site plan which addresses all planning, fire, and engineering requirements. and two, a full tree survey submitted with the plan with the conditions as submitted by the pea group on their letter of December 17th, 2025. You okay? Yeah. So, would you want to support that motion? I would. Okay.

I was just hoping we were going to include ammunition could be sold in there to make it crystal clear, but we Yeah. Darn it. I don't think that's necessary. I just want to make sure that if if there is ammunition that there isn't another step. Yeah. Yeah. We want to cover all bases. So, yeah. All right. So, [clears throat] you support? Heck yeah. Okay. Moved by Commissioner uh Boyd and supported by Commissioner Iikes to approve application 2588 um based on the uh set conditions. All in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. Motion carries. Okay. Welcome to [snorts] the community. looking forward to working with you on the next steps. Mhm.

Dora. Um, Commissioner, can I just ask one question? uh the undisturbed area at the very southeast quadrant of this site. Is that going to remain that way for the continuum or do we know? Is it likely to be developed at some point in the future? Do we know? Are we talking about the DUR building or the tractors? Um no, this the trees south of tractor. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. In the in the map when you showed the five mile road map that showed the entire development. Yeah. Um, directly south of tractor supply, there was a large area that's listed as undisturbed area.

I understand that's pretty contaminated back there that was uh, you know, the most significant of the dumping grounds. Okay. Yeah. And I remember when they were in Myers's uh, their part that also extends into the Meyers and they cleaned it all up and Okay. All right. Thank you. It is zoned industrial. It can be developed. Um it's owned by the land bank. We just have never nobody's come to us for with interest of developing it yet. The other point would be that there's really the way this is laid out, there would be no access to the site. Yeah. It's going to be land.

Exactly. Yeah. [snorts] There there is a sliver of land that runs just west of the township's um water tower with access to five mile. that would it's a significant easement. Okay. But it's pretty narrow and it um isn't a straight line. So, okay. It's not conducive, but it looks like there's a keyhole or a culde-sac there right at the south end of that access street behind the meer, right? Is that how you'd access it? How about that? Ah, so you're over the right side of me all together. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Directly behind top. That's a good piece of land.

Yeah. All right. Next is uh application 2573 uh the Dur building on Plymouth Road. And

what Rob Hey, Commissioner uh Boyd, I did want to add, right, Eagle just handed out $9 million to 19 regional airports here that have PAS contamination. So, it'd be nice to know what contamination is on the ground. A and then maybe to ask for super fund cleanup money for the township to try and do something with it so it could be used. I believe um Bob, you've told us that pollution dates back to early in the 20th century before PAS really was a issue.

It could be whatever it is. There's super fund cleanup funds that exist from the state, right? Depending on whatever it is, right? So, it' be nice to know what it is and then perhaps Eagle can point the township in the right way. Okay. Um, not sure we're ready for the planners report.

Thank you. Evening, commissioners. is Laura Mangan with McKenna. Uh application 2573 is for the um existing Dura building at 4500 Plymouth Road. Uh the commission reviewed the special land use application uh earlier last year in April and granted special land use approval for the outdoor storage of RVs and um boats. The door building itself is to be converted into indoor storage which is an approved um permitted land use in the district. So just [snorts] the special land use was for the outdoor storage. The applicant since that special land use approval has submitted for site plan um both tenative and final which is uh included in our review. Uh going through the site plan standards of the zoning ordinance. Uh the first criteria site design the site is properly zoned. Again, they received their special land use approval. It is designated for industrial in the master plan, so it's compliant with that trajectory. Um, largely the site will remain the same. Um, they are proposing uh to remove that existing culde-sac um that's in the front yard uh and to replace that with some new landscaping. So, that will kind of beautify the front lawn um of the the building. Um in terms of criteria 2, site appearance, um the only new um structures that they are proposing for the site um is a canopy uh to the east of the building uh that would cover the main entrance and then um a concrete uh ADA compliant ramp

[snorts]

um that's kind of in the southeast portion of the facade um that would lead up to that main uh entrance. In terms of dimensional standards, they are generally compliant. The the building is um an existing non-conformity um on one of its sideyard setbacks, but no no change or increase to that portion of the building is proposed. So that is a legal non-conformity and can remain. The canopy that they're proposing at that main entrance is only 16 ft in height at its highest point. Um so all of those dimensional standards um are compliant. The third criteria, preservation of site features. Um the review states that there are two heritage trees that are proposed for removal. These are not heritage trees. That's just a misprint. Um they're two regular trees though that are proposed for removal. Um 14 in and 7 in. Um so we will need to see uh replacement provided for those. um it's only a quarter of the rem required um or only a quarter 25% of what is to be removed. Um so two to three trees depending on the final caliper that the applicant proposes um will need to be provided. Um and that is a condition of approval. There's ample space on the site to accommodate those two to three trees. Uh criteria four impact on public services. Um the engineering review is included in your packet. They are recommending both tenative and final. They are not here this evening. Um but we'll we're happy to try to answer any specific questions that you have. Um they do not find that this is going to have a detrimental impact on the public uh utilities. This is a developed site. Um and the proposed use is not intensive. Uh criteria five vehicular access and circulation. The site receives access from Plymouth Road. um one access point.

No change to uh that access drive is proposed as part of this uh criteria six pedestrian access and circulation. There is already an existing sidewalk along Plymouth Road. Um they are proposing there's two barrierfree ADA parking spaces that are just outside the new canopy. They are proposing an internal sidewalk that would connect those to the main entrance that is in compliance. Criteria seven, emergency access. The fire department has um recommended approval of the site plan. Their um letter is included in your packet. Criteria 8, landscaping. Uh they do comply with the required street trees and the parking lot screening for the outdoor storage. However, the the one item that remains outstanding is the replacement um of those two trees uh which will require require two to three uh trees in replacement. So that one is still outstanding. Uh they are proposing um a six-foot aluminum fence around the outdoor storage area that will be uh also screened on the outside by uh vegetation including evergreens. In terms of parking and loading, the use requires 25 parking spaces and that's just based on the number of units inside. This is a low traffic use and the applicant is proposing to construct 14 spaces um for the public's use of the facility. Um and then they are proposing to bank the uh other 11 required spaces. So they would not be constructing those spaces. If there finds um if there if there proves to be a parking shortage on site and that becomes an issue, then they do have the physical space to convert some of that outdoor storage area into those 11 bank parking spaces. So, we would recommend approval of that and to not construct any more pavement um near the front entrance of the door building and just leave that landscaped.

Um in [snorts] terms of the structure design and architecture um of their addition, the canopy is um brick with metal trim. Uh so this will be a a modest addition to the building and we don't think will deter from the um quality architecture of that front facade. In terms of lighting, the phototric plan shows an average illumination level that's below 3-ft candle. So overall, this is not a heavily uh illuminated site. However, there are a couple points just under the light poles where it exceeds that maximum of 10 foot candles. So, uh, we'll need to, uh, see a revised illumination plan that does just lower those, um, couple spots a tiny bit. And then, um, as there is outdoor storage on the site, there are some specific use standards that the ordinance requires. Um, so there's a couple notes that we're requesting that the applicant add, um, just to ensure that, um, there's no, [clears throat] uh, abandoned or, um, inoperable vehicles that are parked on the site. Um and uh that should be um a a quick addition um to the revised site plan. So based upon the overall general compliance um we are recommending tenative and final site plan approval. Um that is con conditional upon first the planning commission finding that the bank parking is appropriate. um provided that you are in agreement and have consensus on that. Then um we list a couple conditions uh for approval. Uh the first is the any outstanding engineering items. The second um and the third are those two uh site plan notes just to cover the outdoor storage. The fourth condition is that the exterior lighting be slightly reduced to not exceed that maximum 10-ft candles. And

then number five is that the uh landscape plan uh provide the replacement trees um for the two trees that are proposed to being removed. The applicant is here this evening um and happy to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you. Thank you. And is the engineer here today? They are not here this evening. their report um recommends both tenative and and final any outstanding items they feel can be addressed um to the before the pre-construction phase.

Oh, okay. And then we also have the uh report from the uh fire department and it looks like there it's perhaps some issues and they've been cleared. So, is the applicant here? What did they do here again? Well, you can ask him storage and boats. Indoor storage and a yard of outdoor storage, Bob. Okay. Thank you. Floor is yours. [snorts] Do you have a

Oh, no. I'm My name is Brian. I'm here to answer any questions you guys have. Okay. Well, do we have any questions? I do, as a matter of fact. First one was, I want to compliment you on keeping the existing tree line to remain. Okay. Thank you for not killing trees cuz you wanted to park another 10 or 12 vehicles. Appreciate it. Number one. Number two, I'm not familiar with a Knox box. Okay. There's a Knox box with the emergency access, the control gate, right? That's for the fire department. They have the only key to that so they can get in it. Okay. And there's a 20ft swinging gate for fire access on the back northwest corner that's changed shut. So the fire department has the pad lock key to that also

fire department to get gain access from the Okay. It's wheelchair access with a ramp. That's a good job on it. It's the only questions I had. We have that too. I'm sure there'll be others. Maybe not. Maybe not. [snorts] No. Okay. Nothing. Good. Okay. Well, they did their job. They did a good job. So, who's going to make the motion? How's that? Thank you. I'll attempt to make a motion to take the the load off of Commissioner Boyd here. Oh, okay. Go ahead.

Okay. I'd like to make a motion to approve PC 2573 for the door building indoor outdoor storage tenative and final site plan with the following recommendations as they are specified. Right. Um to get the engine review letter prior stamp approval. uh to prohibit the storage of parts or assemblies or other materials and that every vehicle that's stored must be duly licensed and they have [snorts] an updated landscaping plan to show where the replacement trees are that will replace the two heritage trees. Is there support? Uh just one comment. Yeah, actually they're not heritage trees, right? We corrected that. Correct. Well, they're not. We could say

Oh, I feel better now. Yeah. [laughter] But we could just say the 14inch and 17in uh diamond breast height trees would be the correct thing. [snorts] Put a smile on my face. Yeah, me too. The fact they're named dirt building indoor and outdoor storage says a lot about what they do. Is there support? I support Bill Kane cut by Commissioner Ax and supported by Commissioner uh Boyd to uh grant tentative and final site plan approval for subject to set conditions um for application 2573. All in favor signify by saying I [clears throat] opposed. Motion carries.

Thank you. Thank you. Next is application 2585, the Michigan Schools and Government Credit Union site plan approval for tenative and final and the planners report.

Thank you, Chair Solski. Good evening again, plan commissioners. Liz Hart with McKenna. Before you is a request for tenative and final site plan approval for the construction of the of a new Michigan schools and government credit union branch with drive-through lanes located off of Five Mile Road. Uh on the screen you can see it's part of this big development that we're discussing tonight and it's just to the west of the Meyer development. Um the site right now is actually being split from a larger larger site that you can see where this road divides the credit union from that larger site. Uh it's under review administratively right now. Um and a special land use for this site was approved on October 10th, 2025. So the terms of site design and zoning considerations, the proposed building fronts 5M road with parking located in the front of the building and drive-through lanes position in the rear of the building. So that does minimize visual impact from the roadway. Pedestrian access is provided through a public sidewalk connections and internal walkways uh that link the site to the building entrance. And vehicular access is provided uh via private drives um from the internal private drive area on the west side and on the south side of the site. Um as the there were conditions with the special land use and they have been addressed with this uh application of they submitted a full site plan. Um an internal sidewalk through the site has been provided. Uh they originally proposed three internal uh access drives to the site. They were required to remove one. They did that and then an updated uh lighting plan meeting dark

sky requirements which they did submit. And there is a condition uh some of the lights were a little too bright and there's a condition to reduce that um site appearance and coordination with surrounding development. The project does meet all dimensional standards of the industrial district um and the scale and architectural style are consistent with what's emerging in this commercial corridor um including Meyer and LC car wash. Uh the use of the shared access does support coordinated circulation across the broader development area and um yes and then preservation of site features. The applicant did do a tree survey. Um it wasn't because they found no trees larger than 8 in in diameter. Um there was no tree replacement requirements. Um, so we didn't have one to review as staff. Um, and I uh I will say I I did look into uh the site as cuz before if you look on Google streets there were trees. Um I'm not sure if they were heritage or non-heritage of the diameter needed, but um I I assume at some point the retic possibly cleared the site and we just weren't part of that process. Um so that's why there are no trees on the site right now. Um impact on public services and utilities. uh engineering reviewed the proposal and uh is recommending a tenative and final approval as well and uh the fire department did review it as well and also um provided approval as well. Vehicular access and circulation again

the site has two access points from the private drives. Um there are no proposed direct driveway connection from 5m. Uh one outstanding item does remain. We would like the applicant to submit a truck turning movement uh diagram for the refused vehicles and fire apparatus um pri prior to final plan stamping. Liz, can you switch it back so people can follow along? Thanks. There it is, Chuck. [clears throat]

Um, pedestrian access. So, internal sidewalks, again, they connect to a public sidewalk system to the building entrance, and all walkway widths meet or exceed the ordinance requirements. However, there is no sidewalk proposed along the southern private drive. um which as we talked about earlier with tractor supply having all sidewalk connections is important to this site. So, um, that should be added as a condition of of approval if the planning commission wants that, but that the southside sidewalk be implemented into specifically the it'll be the Meyer site. Again, emergency access. The fire department reviewed and approved the plan. Uh, landscaping, screening, and buffering. So the ordinance requires landscaping to create visual separation and break up paved areas and remain compatible with township character. And the plan does provide landscaping trees and buffering. Um in regards to buffering along 5mile road. So we reviewed the applicability of the expressway buffer found in section 26.12.5 which requires a 20ft buffer for industrial sites of budding expressway. in internal staff discussions and just a little more research before this meeting. Five Mile Road is designated in the master plan as a major thoroughfare, not an expressway. And the zoning ordinance actually doesn't define an expressway, but how we interpret it, I believe M15 or 275 would be considered expressways, but the master plan identifies 5 miles and major thoroughway and they don't it doesn't actually address expressways or identifies them. So we are determining that 5 mile is not considered expressway

and so therefore that additional 20ft buffer isn't required but they still are proposing a 20ft buffer for their site. Um so this does provide a s you know a treatment to soften the corridor and create an attractive frontage for this area. Um, however, I did note in the staff report, Al Car Wash was not required to do that. They're only proposing about 10 and a half. Um, and they are coming back for final site plan. Um, and we'll take a look at that when for February um to ensure that there's consistency along this buffer area for this corridor. Um, so regarding parking lot landscaping, planting islands are required to include shade trees. Uh from the site plan, there's only one island that contains a tree and there's about four on the south side of the canopy for the drivethru. Um which is which is okay. Uh but staff would like to see those trees actually spread out in the parking lot just to generally meet the ordinance intents a little bit more creating more shade in that paved area. Um parking, loading, and stacking. The site does provide more than the minimum required parking spaces. Uh but the drive-through stacking actually does not meet the ordinance standards. Uh the ordinance requires 15 and the applicants only providing nine which will require variance approval. There is no formal loading zone shown. Um the applicant has stated that they propose offhour deliveries which is acceptable. Um and then uh snow storage areas need to be clearly defined on the plan. They're not currently this the applicant has stated that there is sufficient room on the south side. Just would like to see that noted on the site

plan. Building design and architecture. Uh the building's proposed to be one story. It features brick veneer uh ephus and architectural accent details. the overall design is consistent with the corridor so far. Um, but prior to final stamp approval, the applicant needs to submit building material uh percentage of calculations. It appears they need it. We just want to have that on the plan. And then just the building length measurements just to confirm facade articulation compliance. Um, exterior lighting. Again, the lighting plan does generally comply with the photometric standards and the dark sky requirements, but there are two fixtures identified as light B and C, and they do exceed the permitted intensity levels at the property line. Uh, they're on the west side of the property, and those need to be revised to be lowered. Um, and a note needs to be added indicating that lighting will be turned off after business hours except for required security and canopy lighting. Um, so staff is recommending tenative and final site plan approval subject to the following conditions. The submission of a truck turning maneuverability diagram, an updated landscaping plan addressing the parking lot island trees. Um, I do mean to mention there are no proposed street trees along the privac drive. um that is something we want the applicant to work with staff on and the the property owner of the entire development retic to determine who should put in those street trees. We want to ensure that those street trees are put in place though. Um so that's why that condition is there. And um number three, approval of variance for the reduced drive-thru stacking spaces. Number four, the identification of snow storage areas on the plan. and five, the

submission of building material percentages and facade measurements. Um, that's my presentation. I'm happy to answer any questions [snorts] for me and the applicant is here tonight as well. Thank you. Thank you.

And this the same with the engineering report that they got a copy. Okay. And also, I see we got a copy from the uh fire department and they found no deficiencies from a public safety perspective. And the applicant is here. [clears throat] [snorts] Okay. Okay. Good evening, commissioners. Uh my name is Mike Bllan. I've been with the Stucky Vitality Architects. Uh as was noted, we were here back in October with our special land use. Um so the as was described, we have actually responded to some of those comments in writing already to the to the McKenna team with regards to what's what we need to add for the condition. So, we're pretty comfortable with all that. Um, I did bring the actual materials that are going to be on the building with us tonight. So, I can certainly go through and explain those. But right now, we did the calculation. We're at 77% of the building is brick and cast stone. Um, and then we have a little bit of ephus at the front. And what that is is we use what's called it's a limestone finish on the ephus. And that's a seven coat uh application. And I have a sample of that to give it the look of limestone. And what we do then is we score into large pieces to look like real limestone. And we've met we've tried different materials. It looks fantastic at the end because it's a high quality and it doesn't go to the base. We keep a way coat around. So there's no ephus below at grade. So it holds up extremely well and it looks perfect, you know, because they can make it perfect with the scoring of that. It's a very nice

finish. Um, and then there's a metal, pre-finished metal for the canopy. And then the coping's pre-finish metal, which matches the windows and that. Um, so that's the materials. As far as uh the other items, I know there was a couple light uh illumination levels that were a little over. We'll we'll obviously adjust that with the final photometrics. Uh the trees were willing to put the trees in the islands. I think that was where the there's a couple islands in the front. They want to put the trees there. We have no problem doing that. Um, we did find out about the variance just recently. So, um, I do have all kinds of data about what the credit union keeps track of how their drive-throughs are operating as far as the numbers. So, we can bring that up to the ZBA, but we feel we have plenty of, you know, the way that it works. As you know, you go to the drive-thru of banks, it's not like or credit, it's not like it used to be. I mean, it got high in COVID because you couldn't go inside, but, you know, that's like a rarity thing. So, we feel we got plenty of, you know, we'll be fine with the stacking and at three per lane. And the ATM is pretty much, you know, that's a 24-hour access point. Um, we did talk about the trees in the uh in the uh drive coming in. We're going to work with Rico to get that covered. You know, who's going to pay for it? That's more between the attorneys, but we know we'll we'll make sure that they get put in on our side and we'll work with them on the final uh agreement with REICO when we finalize the property uh conditions because we're still kind of in due diligence period till we get through our site plan approval tonight. Um

I think that was all the items on the list, but I'm here to answer any questions. I also have our civil engineer here as well. And then we also have director of the facilities for the credit union here as well if you, you know, have any questions about the credit union itself. We'd like to see the the materials. I I'm sure, excuse me, [clears throat] I'm not sure if I heard you correctly when you talked about the Ephus material. Yeah. Did did you say that that there' be nothing close to the ground? It's Yeah, we use, if you see here on this, for example, we use the cast stone here, which is, you know, you're familiar with cast stone. It's not block. It's actually stone, right? And that's at the base. That's the Wayne's code around the entire building perimeter.

Okay. And then the eits is just at the entrance which is this material here. You see it's it's not like your typical eits. It's very smooth. It's the idea is that it batches limestone. Yeah. The only concern we've had in the past that we didn't like it at ground level. We don't do that either. We keep it up. It's [clears throat] four courses up. I think when it's on the drawings, but it's all around the entire perimeter of the building. And then then the brick is obviously Yeah. It's a kind of a golden beige with iron spot in there. Mhm. Yeah. you know. So, uh, is do you know this, you know, look this indentation would you have the logo? The vest of the lobby. Yeah. Oh, is this lit up at night? It usually is. Yeah, the vest is usually lit at night. No, I'm talking about where the logo

is. That is not that is artwork. That's not actually a lit sign. Oh, okay. It's It's acrylic just on the wall. Okay. So, there's it's not internally lit or anything like that. Oh, okay. Anybody else want to see the materials?

A little more higher higher finish. And then that's the the finish on the ephus. That's just just at the entrance. We use that. It's brick all the way around. And then the [snorts] materials for the windows and the trim is the silver metallics. Then we have a little accent color that you see on the rendering. That's a bad answer. Not sure if you could answer this or the person from the credit union. Do you is there a count of how many customers you might have in in the Plymouth, Northville, Canton area or

My name is Matthew Dishman. I'm the facilities manager for MSGCU. Um, we we have a a branch in Canton currently. Um, you know, we do have numbers of of the the counts that that I could could share with you. So, I mean, I think Oh, yeah. So, my bottom of the question is is that you're just you're you're just trying to build up your membership and

Absolutely. Yes. we we've been, you know, in this area. We're in Ann Arbor and and Leavonia and we've been eyeing this um area. We've and again, I think this is going to be a great site for for a lot of reasons, but uh yes, we're looking to always increase our membership. Okay. Will you have safe deposit boxes inside the facility? That is not up to me. That is up to the the CEO and the COO. Um we don't have them at um u many of our branches but we do at some that's at this one I don't believe we will be having safety deposit boxes. Well let them know there's a shortage in the township.

I can certainly do that and this guy right here can design them. A lot of banks are kind of moving away from I know that that's why there's a shortage. Chase is getting rid of theirs this year. Oh they are. I I will share that though with our CEO Chase. Any other Yeah, I have a question on the trees, right? I noticed there's four locust trees. Those are really messy. Number one. Okay. And then Oh, wait, wait. It depends on the kind of locust. Well, yeah, it does. But I'm I'm talking leaf density, leaf size, right? They they are tough to keep clean. Okay. At least the ones we have in our neighborhood. extremely

well. There's there's different types of locusts. Um there's there's a certain kind that has the the big curled brown seed pods that come down in the fall. Yeah. That's not in the the tree trade this this time at this point because it is a nuisance. But there's other kinds of locust like a shade master locust and a skyline locust that have very small leaves. Small leaves. Yeah. And they're actually appreciated for that because they fall in the fall. You don't have to rake them. So, I just want to be clear about that. All right. So, I should know my locust trees. Yeah, there's quite a wide variety or not.

Okay. I'll defer to you, Commissioner Boyd on that. The the gum, if this is the type that has these balls that are like spikes, right? This is again messy and painful for dogs that I'm sure I'll be walking there right on their way to Myers. Again, [laughter] there's different kinds of black gums. Uh yeah, they're they're a very very pretty tree in the fall and they keep their leaves all the way into the summer.

Yeah, but they're actually know this because we just have updated the landscaping at the beginning of our subdivision and that the contractor was proposing those types of trees and there were lots of questions about the about that. Uh the answer they told us, and I don't know if it's the exact same species that you have, but the answer they told us is that the uh that particular type of tree species doesn't develop the little black balls until [clears throat] it's a relatively old tree. And when they do it, it's it's not very objectionable. So I I would hope that to your point that just as you look at that that you make sure your tree supplier is providing a species of black gum that doesn't have that issue. Okay.

They're painful to step on. Mhm.

And then I had one other question here. As I read the the very thorough report that McKenna gave us, right, the fire department has signed off, right, on this, right? So, we have this condition on the truck maneuverability, right? It's an open, right, that just needs to be resolved. I'm just surprised we got a fire department sign off when the maneuverability of getting the emergency response vehicles like a fire truck in or out hasn't been satisfied yet. Uh, good evening. Eric Williams with Stonefield. Um, you know, when we looked at this, the fire truck typically needs to be within 150 ft of all points of the building. Um, and actually, if you look at, I'm going to call them the Meer drives, but the the main access drives to the site. If you put a fire truck throughout that kind of L-shape, you can actually access the building from those points. Um, I think in all reality, this the firetruck would not look to circulate the building because a they'd be basically on top of the building based on the size of the site. um and then be those drive aisles are rather tight at the northeast corner.

So really they might enter that south end of the site adjacent to the drive-through canopy, but they won't be accessing the north and east sides of the site. And then obviously I don't think anybody wants to block five mile, but that's another option. So um there's more than enough room and and you know close proximity for that truck to park if that ever needed to happen. Um, I had a question and this actually is to the planning department as well as the applicant. Um, it relates to criteria number six, pedestrian access in the sidewalk along the south section of the subject site. Um, what are we actually asking the applicant to do and what is the applicant agreeing to do on that? And if we could show the map, the site plan where that sidewalk would be on this the south side. So that curve curved area um there's a big like rear yard where those three trees are. It's pretty large and then it hits the drive access. So that's where that sidewalk would be because there would be sidewalk leading into the Meyer development along that. So that's where we would be asking them to put that sidewalk is on the south side of that property.

Okay. Um is the applicant agreeing to do that?

I think I think this drawing is a little hard to see and and I apologize for that first of all. Um, so I think when we were last here, we obviously worked with Reico to make sure that the sidewalk along the west boundary is installed. That's been shown. We're working that out with the attorney there. Um, and looking at the Meyer site, there is no, you know, this area east of our site is a detention pond. Um, there's actually no sidewalk connection on the north side of that shared drive. What it looks like is there is a sidewalk on the south side of the shared drive there. Um, you ask me, that's not really our responsibility. We can talk to Retico about it, but at the end of the day, we're not installing these roadways. We're just we're basically plugging into them. Um, but there's no from from what I've seen, there's no sidewalk on the north side of that shared drive that would tie into Meyer. So, you know, if we were to put that in, we'd basically be sending somebody into a pond. Um, [laughter] again, we can, we're obviously in constant communication with Retica. We can ask them about it. I just I don't want to commit on their behalf because frankly that's not our property. Commissioner board, we could also similar to the street trees add a condition that the applicant and retico work with staff to determine if the sidewalk's appropriate there or not and who will install it if we consider it to be appropriate.

Okay. I also that's good. I also question what the real usage, pedestrian usage would be of a sidewalk on the west side of that site because really relatively little residential west of that area other than the manufactured housing on Ridge Road. So I I just don't know on the east east portion of that site. I can see easily how pedestrians would be using those sidewalks. On the west side of the site, I'm just not as clear. So the actually the recommendation that you and retic and the group come up with a consensus plan is a good recommendation. My point of view

is was the uh was that a condition that was part of the judgment do you know about the sidewalks and yes it was so that's you know that was the judgment but they could still ask. Yeah. But if I'm understanding what you're saying, directly east of the credit union site is is now a retention pond. Correct. Yes. And there is no sidewalk planned along the south side of that. On Liz, are you able to blow this up at all? I'm not sure

there. I mean, what it looks like is Meer has a sidewalk that stubs to basically the northwest corner of their parking lot. It ends on the south side of that east westmost drive. Again, it's so hard to see on the scale of these drawings, but there is a walkway there on Meer's property that that ends, but it is on the south side of that shared access drive. Um, you know, I think the the condition that Liz placed on it, you know, to kind of work this out administratively, we're happy to do that. We don't want this to hold up the application. Obviously, we just don't want to necessarily be on the hook for something that, to your point, doesn't make sense. So, again, let you guys figure that out as a team, right? Yeah,

I will say we're also in the process of administrative reviewing the VTEC road. That's what this is. So, um we'll make sure to add that into our comments when we send them our review notes. So, both both people both applicants will be aware of this situation and we'll work with them. Are you are you satisfied with that? I think that's the best that can be done.

Yeah. Okay, good. Okay. Other questions or concerns? Are we ready for a motion? Okay, Mr. Chair, um based on compliance with article 29 site plan review standards of zoning ordinance. Uh, I recommend that we grant tenative and final site plan approval for the Michigan Schools and Government Credit Union PC application 2585 subject to the following conditions on the planner report. Submittal of a truck maneuverability diagram number one. Number two, updated landscaping plan addressing comments in section 8. Number three, applicant shall work with staff on reticle on placement of street trees along private access drive. Number four, variance approval for the reduction in stacking spaces. Number five, site plan to show storage location. Number six, building mater materials calculation and building measurements to be confirmed further discussion today. And number seven, a discussion between staff Rico and the applicant on the proper sidewalk usage along the south side of this slot.

Is there support? Support. Moved by [clears throat] Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Callahan uh to approve application 2585 subject to set conditions. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. Well, welcome to the community. Yeah, good luck to you. We look forward to it. Safe deposit boxes. [laughter] It's the fastest way to get at least one. That's pretty good. Before we move into miscellaneous uh business, Trusty Grath, you had some comments earlier. Do you want to repeat those comments now?

I support that motion. I specifically came to the meeting tonight, Bob, to thank you for your many, many years of service on the planning commission. Um, takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of work. This is not an easy job. And I think it's important for us to recognize your contributions to the planning commission and to the community. I know you're not retiring. you're just walking away from the planning commission, but I want you to know that I appreciate and the citizens of this community appreciate all the time and the many years that you've put into working on the planning commission.

Thank you. Thank you. Okay. And actually, I was going to ask for a round of applause earlier, but everybody left, SO [applause] THANK YOU. Uh receive and file the annual report the draft. [clears throat]

Um so you don't have the draft in front of you. Um, we were had some issues with our server this week and we didn't have access to be able to print it off. Um, but I do have I can give you numbers of it. Um, and then for the next meeting, we'll have it prepared and ready for you. Uh you guys this year had I think 17 total meetings of regular and special meetings and throughout the year you uh reviewed eight special land use permits, nine site plans, you did two zoning ordinance amendments, three cluster housing um options, and eight uh map reszoning amendments. Um, and then on top of that, uh, staff did 22 landscape reviews. Uh, you guys did one sign review. Uh, we did a lot more than that. I don't have the number. And then we did 21 administrative reviews. That also includes any major administrative reviews you had to do or review. [snorts] um 15 land divisions or combinations, two fence modifications, which you guys saw, and then one class A non-conforming designation. So, so you guys had a busy 2025 year um with this and we're looking forward to 2026 and some suggestions of what we can do in 2026, especially from the master plan, action plan, and recommendations from that. So, um we'll have the full report for you next month. and a discussion on child care centers.

So again, um we had a little memo put together um after our last discussion. You guys had some questions about what's actually going around outside of the township. How are other townships handling child care? Um again, our server wasn't available, so we weren't able to print that off for you. So I'm happy to have a little discussion with you. I printed off what the city ca did uh their research. Um

I I did put together a little map uh from their report. They had a list of all existing uh child care facilities in the township. It's not too bad to see, but all the blue markers are all the existing child care centers in Plymouth. Um, I will say a lot some of these people's homes. No, these are all commercial. The these are all commercial. A lot of them are schools and churches. Oh.

Um, and I think this one actually down here isn't accurate. It's the um Salvation Army. I think like it's called Tiny Tots or something like that. I think that's actually in Leavonia and this is just their like headquarters or or something like that. I don't think there's a child care service there. Um so so these are the locations. I will say this this green spot that is a residential um house and we did receive a a phone call about it. Um they didn't meet the outdoor space requirement of 500 square ft per child. But um in discussions with them um they they specifically said, you know, they like to be on corridors where it's leading to people to do their errands. That's why Ann Arbor Road um was something they were looking at. But they also did mention that they like to stay out of the intense commercial areas specifically because of traffic. Um, so that's why they were looking outside of that corridor closer to residential, but also on the route to 275 or your like the like Kroger and and things like that that you're going to be just going along the road. Um, and they also uh did mention that specifically their company and they're um expanding all over Michigan right now. They do have indoor play space. I know our discussion has been about outdoor play space and if 3,000 is enough. Um I they did say 3,000 is plenty. Um a lot of their sites don't have that much and it's still plenty for their children that are there. They said uh that they actually have groups. Not all the children are going out at a time. They have different groups that go out. So not all children are outside at one time. And then the indoor play space

also acts as an additional area for them. Um, and I know our discussion was with the city and and changing our um, Ann Arbor Road corridor text and that specific site is like right in the middle of Ann Arbor and the the concern is traffic right there. And specifically, I don't believe more traffic will be coming to that area. I think the traffic issue will actually be the um customers accessing and leaving the site. I think that will be more troublesome for them than actually more traffic coming to Ann Arbor. I think you know people that probably go this way all the time and have their kids like that's an easy way for them to just drop off their kids. I just I worry about access in and out onto Ann Arbor Road or not from that site. But that is a city site and if we do end up changing our code, this is a special land use approval. So you do have a lot of purview to look at, you know, is the site compatible with the use. Um traffic studies can be involved. So that we can determine if the use is right, the location for the use is right for that. So, so don't don't be afraid that we can't deny special land use requests if we find that it's not an appropriate location for it. Um, I just wanted to mention that, but uh we can move forward with showing you the tax amendment that the city has proposed. Um, we're not in disagreement with it. Um, so we can move forward with that or we can I can come back ne next month. We have a pretty big agenda. um and discuss our actual memo or later this week when we have access to the server, I'm happy to send it out to you. So you you have that already. So that's my little spiel on child care

centers with what information I have right now. Have questions? Not not a question, but more of a comment. Right. And I I did talk to the lady at the DDA after she'd walked out of here. I'm just puzzled why they wouldn't look at park. Okay, it's safe. There's traffic. There's parking. There's an indoor gymnasium. There's a pool in there. There's classrooms. It's everything you'd ever want. And it's in the middle of the city of Plymouth as opposed to the the south end of the city that's near a very very busy road. You're out of space there. Park has totally rented out. Park has a waiting list. Wow. To get in there. Uhhuh.

Wow. I mean, it's like they missed an opportunity with the Christian Science where they had the PD fight, right? I mean, that'd be a perfect way to get that church back up and running by putting a daycare in there, but it's unfortunate. It's another easy to get to location for residents. So, they have to travel the township now to find something. So, I understand the problem, but I'm just really surprised there's no solution in sight inside a central area to the city that's easy to get to from all four corners of the city. Okay. Anyone else? And next is a discussion on the master plan.

Thank you. Um, real quick before we jump into that discussion, I want to make sure everyone saw the email about the webinar in February um, on data centers. It's 2 hours February 12th. Um it is virtual data center knowhow for planners and officials. So if you are interested in attending that two-hour webinar um please let Liz and I know as soon as possible. We'll need to register you with um the Michigan Association of Planning. They're the ones that are putting that on. I understand there's another data centers webinar that's going to be provided by MTA. Um and Chairman Solski, I think you had right

expressed some interest in that. Yeah, I did uh I attended the webinar today by the Michigan uh township association uh and uh at the end of it uh she did and also before the webinar started they listed all the different topics that are coming up. They do that every every month I think. Uh and they did mention about data centers and the woman even admit I don't know that much about data centers cuz they can be the size of a whole house generator to you know acres of computers. So uh I plan on attending that one as well that uh the MTA one. Yeah.

Yeah. I registered for that. I didn't see the Michigan Association of Planners one. Yeah. That's coming up to all of us. Yeah. for Thursday, February 12th, noon to 2. So, just let us know if there's any interest in that. And then you got my response. Okay. Yes. Good.

Yes, a couple of you have responded already. So, thank you. Um, and we do need to um set up a plan with the supervisor's office to determine next steps for data centers and how we'll evaluate and provide literature on that. So we'll be working um on that separately and when when we have a plan of attack we'll share it with the commission. There will be a lot of background literature provided I'm sure because there's already been a lot of research done on these and the the map webinar should also be insightful. Any questions on that? Okay. Um the uh handout before you is a little bit of a deeper dive into this wasn't um intended originally to be its own subsection but given the discussion from the joint meeting and um the number of action items that were around the Ann Arbor Road corridor we think it would be helpful to break it out um into its kind of own sub chapter um within the future land uh chapter. Um so this document we can go through it um but it's draft text for you to review and then provide any feedback on. So this is uh strictly the 2 and 1 half mile segment that is the um downtown development authority corridor for Ann Arbor Road. And that's basically from the uh eastern boundary of the township, Elevonia, um to just past the Kroger development, the St. John's co-ops um on the west end. There is a stretch um approximately one mile on the northern uh portion of the corridor that lies within the city

of Plymouth, but that's only like a fifth of the the entire corridor um overall, both north and south. Um so we start out this a subsection with a little bit of history about the Ann Arbor Road Corridor. We think that's kind of missing from the current master plan and just that collaboration between the city and the township and how that came to be in the um late 90s. Um we also explained that uh there was a the downtown development authority that was formed um in the early 2000s to govern um improvements along this corridor. a little bit about the board structure and that uh 2002 tax increment financing plan um that really guides any public improvements and the projects of the DDA. We acknowledge here on page three that um quote while the DDA and the planning commission have had limited interaction in the recent past, greater collaboration between these ent entities is essential for accomplishing the many objectives of the township's [snorts] master plan. And that really is true of the board of trustees as well. um just greater coordination between um these entities especially when addressing things like traffic and the DDA plays an important role in this um because they they have um the funding to accomplish some of these projects and that is the intent of having a DDA um to encourage um and the development of new private uses that clearly demonstrate um new jobs, the attraction of new businesses and the generation of additional tax revenue. So that's what the DDA strives to do in the corridor. Um and they will be an important partner moving forward. Um taken from their plan um on page four

are the stated goals of the DDA which I think are important to reflect in this master plan and ensure that the um redevelopment of this corridor is in line with these goals. So first improve the visual continuity of the area and foster a sense of place that attracts investment and enhances the identity of the corridor. foster connectivity and access between surrounding neighborhoods and destinations along Anarbor Road, improve the overall business climate of the district, and deter economic decline. Uh that is really the the primary justification for having DDAs established. Um beautify the corridor and preserve create unique features or character at um different sites. Maintain and improve public facilities. So that would include um anything within the rightaway, lighting um but also facilities such as this township hall. Uh right, this is in within the DDA and is considered an eligible um expense and public facility to improve. Um enhance the neighborhoods and residential uses along the corridor. Accommodate safe movement to and along the corridor for vehicles, pedestrians, and cyclists. address traffic calming and improve congestion. And lastly, activate frontages in existing businesses and ensure infill development is contextsensitive and compatible with adjacent land uses and um development in the district. So I think that background is just good to have um in this master plan and to link the two the planning commission and the DDA. Is there consensus that we should include this information?

Okay. [clears throat] I think it's a good idea they didn't include it. I'm I'm just surprised how many of these bullet points that previous topic we had doesn't fall in line with what's in here. Right. So, I think we've got the right content and it should be included in the master plan by all means. Um, just one editorial comment on page four, the second to left bullet. Address traffic calming and improve congestion. I I don't know if we can change this or not, but if we could, I would prefer to replace improve with reduce congestion. Address traffic calming and reduce congestion. Okay.

Yeah, a good suggestion. [snorts] It's clear. Yeah. To me, uh, calming refers to, uh, people not speeding through. Uh, which if you slow it down, then it's going to probably cause more congestion. Well, but yeah, it's they're two different approaches there.

Um, I my view is we've got to re everything we can do to reduce congestion. feedback from the public all their meetings, all of the surveys we've done. I I don't know that traffic calming necessarily is 100% increases congestion. There's some proof that traffic calming actually improves traffic flow. I'm a little skeptical about that, but that's what I've read. Am I am I right on that or I mean can you are there instances where you can both reduce congestion with traffic calming?

Yes. Um traffic calming aims aims to improve the safety of a corridor. So something as simple as like street trees, right? um is a traffic calming measure in that it is a physical barrier, right, for pedestrians um that are on that sidewalk between the vehicle, but it also um it signals to the driver um that there is activity and um objects within that rightway. And it just naturally um changes behavior to be more alert, to um be more responsive to activity that you see within that right away. I [clears throat] well I'm uh really on my soapbox about curb cuts [laughter] and that could even be considered calling because you usually have to wait for somebody to you know turn into wherever they want to go. Uh but to me that's another point where we could reduce congestion is reducing curb cuts.

Yes. the Meyer Tractor Supply Credit Union. That's perfect execution of reducing curb cutouts, right? So, that's that's the model and it's the right way to go. So, I'm glad to see that's how that tractor area was developed.

Well, I'm anxious to see I don't know if you were on the commission at the point that uh Gary Roberts, you know, was involved in the tech corridor there. Uh I had asked a question because we uh get a lot of comments from people about traffic on five mile road and as you know they it's now they have the center turn lane and is that enough? And he his uh answer was it it is enough because they feel with that center turn lane that's going to reduce the congestion that we experienced on five with especially with the trucks. Yeah, we'll we'll see. Yes, I'm really gonna watch that once Myers open up.

Well, the best way to [snorts] calm traffic on Five Miles, buy 100 acres of land just west of downtown Salem, right? And put the dump there and have the traffic go up Gabbertson Road. That would definitely calm traffic in five mile Plymouth Township. Just Just saying. On a truck, not easy to move a dump. [laughter] Boy, there's a quotable quote of everybody. [snorts] Man, we're going to miss your sense of humor in these meetings.

Okay, on page five, this next section is kind of a documentation of existing conditions. And this is existing conditions rel relative to the land use and development patterns of the corridor. um just some key observations about recent developments and then on the right are a couple quotes that I pulled directly from the survey of what folks are saying. Um so, oh thank you. Uh so those quotes include limit strip malls, reduce the amount of large companies off the Ann Arbor Road and Hagerty corridor. We need more accessible restaurants and boutiques on Ann Arbor Road to walk to and connect to downtown Plymouth and less auto shops. elimination of new strip mall development on Ann Arbor Road as there are currently too many unoccupied spaces. So that's just like a little bit of a snapshot. And then on page six kind of highlighting uh regarding land use and development patterns, what needs work and what are some opportunities that this master plan can cultivate um that the township can work on moving forward. And we've talked about some of these that show up in the action plan. Um, but I think it's helpful to think about it in this this context. So that may be zoning ordinance text amendments. Um, it may be architectural standards. Um, increased landscaping and buffering. Um, when there's those transitions to the residential neighborhoods. Then on page seven, this is another snapshot of existing conditions, but this is related to transportation access and circulation. So right off the bat, and we have the transportation chapter, which you have seen before, that talks about in Arbor Road. Um but this uh clearly lays out that Anarbor road is a

major thoroughare but it is under the jurisdiction of MDOT and that any um improvements to that corridor are going to require the collaboration and coordination of the township administration and um our state agency um if we want to have a safer and more efficient uh roadway. Um there's a little bit of a deeper dive here about access management and Dennis, I was thinking about adding your graphic as well to this because that's another instance. Um this one uh is just showing the southside between Mil Street and Main Street. There's 16 different driveway access points um along the stretch uh with the average spacing 165 ft where MD dot is uh saying a best practice uh that you should be hitting for safety is 350 ft. Um so there's quite there's quite a gap there between what's recommended by the state and what's out there today. Um, you know, poor access management has serious implications for traffic congestion, motorist safety, and pedestrian safety. Um, and a couple quotes that I've also pulled from the survey that speak to this. Less driveways off Ann Arbor Road for business um should be consolidated so traffic is better. And these are verbatim. So, um,

so Laura, what can the planning commission do working with the planning department for new businesses that go on? Because people are going to sell, business going to close like lover's lane. Is that an opportunity to go in and eliminate some of these curb cutouts, right? To maybe connect them with the next doors. So, you you stretch out the 165 ft distances closer to the 350 desired.

Yeah. as as properties are redeveloped um that is one opportunity. So for even for instance um the Henry Ford Health Center, right, and aligning the new light there with the Massie uh with or with the uh cold entrance, right? That took a lot of coordination on the township's part. Um but if it hadn't if it had if the township hadn't intervened in that way, then there would be an an additional Yeah. cur and making that even more difficult right to traverse. So when these development projects come up, even the smaller ones, um we can look for cross-sight access. We can look at reducing curbs. A lot of the curb cuts too that you see out there are too wide. They're unnecessarily wide um than MD dot standard. So even taking a look at that, if they're not going to eliminate it, at least reduce it a little bit. Um so it's less of a gap that the pedestrian has to walk through, right? um it it narrows that window that they would have a conflict with a um vehicle and improves the safety.

It's hard to see a lot of the curb cuts where they're actually at, especially at night. Better lighting. I run I run over a lot of curbs because of that. Not because I'm an old man. Poor lighting.

Poor visibility. Yeah, lighting is something the the township and the DDA in particular could take a look at. And then on the following page eight, just again with that same table, kind of identifying what needs work and what are some opportunities um of all places to improve um access and circulation.

Will they ever get that done? No, it was supposed to be done in November. That's what I thought. It's MDOT working with Wayne County.

Um, okay. On page nine, this section details the [clears throat] future of the Ann Arbor Road Corridor. And this is where I think your review and input is going to be very important. Um, based off our discussions, I've provided a vision statement. um for the Ann Arbor Road uh district. So, I'd like to see if you think that is aligned with uh what we've talked about and what the survey says. Um and then spelling out some of those appropriate desired land uses um to see in the future. Uh recommendations for the architecture and building design and sighting of the building on the parcel. um recommendations. This is on page 10 for transportation and connectivity and then some additional key considerations um for development in the future along the Ann Arbor Road corridor.

So, welcome any feedback that you may have on that in the next week or so.

The only thing I want to point out here on the fifth fellow point under appropriate desired land use is is when we use the word town homes, right? That's lots of stairs, right? And I know we have a lot of old people and a lot of homes, right, that don't want to climb stairs. So, I just I'm I'm okay if it's condos, right, where you have elevators in there, but I don't want to just be that selective because, you know, we've got a neighbor to the north that's town home happy, right? And perhaps that might become a way if we say including condos, right? Just leave it generic, right? So, it's up to what the demand and the public here really wants to drive the type. But, you know, I I I'm confused sometimes about when they say town homes because there's the town homes that like you said there can be three levels and then there's town homes that are they look like row houses I would call you know that from you know New York or Boston that where there's two stories

brown brownston. So is there a difference in naming what these housing units should be called? I have different images. Uh well, if if we would like to be more specific or more prescriptive, we could provide a couple example images of what you think is more appropriate. The Ann Arbor Road corridor has a 2 and 1/2 story height limit for building. So, we're automatically excluding a three-story um town home unless it was developed as a PUD, [clears throat] but even that is difficult because you have to have a minimum of two acres for a site for a PUD. So,

are those ones on Ann Arbor Road three? Are those three levels? I'm pretty sure it's just two. It's vol It's bolted inside. Yeah, you walk up steps to get to the door. Yeah. I don't think Some are just a few steps up like you'd find in a single residence. Yeah.

And then others have like a half a story up before you get to the main I I'm not [cough and clears throat] obviously we all agree we need more homes with single floor housing but along this corridor as defined by your map the more traditional town home twotory threetory strikes me as being a more realistic use of that land. I'm I'm not sure along Upper Road you're really going to find a developer that wants to put in a singlestory condo tech setup. So I I agree with the intent, but I just don't think that Gran armor road it may not be realistic.

Well, my comment goes back to when we had that master plan special session. I think it was either early September or late August. We actually talked about, you know, this corner over here, right? that's got the Burger King you can't get into because people don't show up to work. So, you can only go to the drive-thru and you blow 20 minutes getting a Whopper Jr. and you almost get late to this meeting. Okay. And you got the vet that's open two days a week, right? And you got the eyesore there which is in direct, you know, against of what we're trying to do and they recorder. That's like a a monopoly set of three pieces of property there that could become right an elevator special land use PUD type things. So people are on one level with an elevator, not the two and a half story, right? because I'm sensitive, but Commissioner Board, you made the point that that is such a great location to get to the freeway to a go to the airport if you're flying out of town, b if you want to go north, right, to wherever you got to go to that um it it opened my mind with respect to a unique area because you got office buildings that are about what five stories high right literally next

I think we agree that's a great space to look for residential development. I'm just not sure that um as far as elevators go, I I've I've heard discussions about ele elevators that they're very expensive to install and they're also very expensive on a ongoing basis for the owners because it requires special a phone line for emergencies, etc., etc., etc. So, I wouldn't want to be too prescriptive and suggest that the only way we would do town homes there is if they included an elevator. That's that's my concern. And then you get into the affordability. Exactly.

Because there are homes that well the the the town houses or what do you want to call them in downtown Plymouth are like 1.2 million and they have elevators from what I understand. Several do. [clears throat] So I'm I'm not I'm not disagreeing with you. I just don't want to be I would recommend we don't be so specific as to call that out as the only way we would consider a residential use in that area. That makes sense.

Yeah. I I just thought a town home is like under an umbrella condo, but maybe it's not. Right. To my definition is there there's certain units that are for, you know, certain some don't even have basements on them, believe it or not. Right. But I didn't want to be that narrow on what we put in here. That was the concern I had. I was trying to make it broader so builders could decide what they wanted. Yeah, I'm I'm agreeing with you in that regard. We do need to make it broader. it becomes so popular because it's it's relatively a cheaper way to go and they're trying to fight the costing costs

and again for not necessarily that application may not necessarily be the right one for aged more senior population but for relatively young um people that's a great use it's a very appealing res right across the street Yeah. Um on page 10 on transportation,

I I obviously want to read this in more detail, but directionally this reads very well to me. The only thing I would ask again is that we consider the the need for the very comprehensive traffic study uh along Ann Arbor, the An Arbor Road corridor. Um, and the my belief is it's it's it will probably take more than just um reduce curb cuts and better lane marking to get the kind of u reduce traffic congestion that our residents envision. That won't be a short-term solution. It probably be a very long-term solution that would require MDOT and Wayne County involvement. But I I [clears throat] just don't want to lose the thought that on the Honor [snorts] Road corridor, we still need to reduce traffic congestion and we need to study it with a really comprehensive traffic study to understand what the situation is and what possible options are both short and long term.

I'm not sure, by the way, that all of you agree with that. So you don't

well I think we need the data you know what you know I'd be interested to know how many cars what intersections it would be good to couple that with police reports where are there accidents along the corridor uh you know where are the pinch points you you know would be so I think we need to look at it in a more encompassing way to try to figure out we have to understand where the problems are so we can address And I and I think that one of the things that we need to address is length of time and money because I think we're giving people uh a skewed hope that traffic uh volume and congestion is going to go away. It's not. I don't care what you're going to do. I don't care how much money you throw at it. It's just not going to go away. Unless you tear down buildings, unless you have CSX build a five lane road underneath their bridge, unless you get rid of businesses and you tear down homes, it's just not going to go away. And I don't know, you know, you have to either set up a timeline that people can hope to get to because I think when we are sitting here, a lot of our residents look at us say this problem's going to solve because we have a master plan. It's not. And it's going to be years and centuries before it happens. That's the only way that Henry Ford became successful in lowering the curb cuts is because the building on it became obsolete and was able to develop that whole thing. I think uh [clears throat] Bill mentioned earlier about yeah well you know we should look at when you know new stores go in that you know but you

you know to have them combine entrance rates. Well, you can't in a lot of cases because unless both stores are in owned by the same people, you're not going to have that ability to do it, right? Because eventually you have to if you go down on either side township or the city, the stores and buildings are are built on the street. You can't get a driveway to go across the front of it. So, I think that a lot of the time we're in my eyes wasting um and and is that because we're we're giving our our residents false hope that something's going to happen and it's not.

Well, they may they may uh uh come to that conclusion because they're hoping that it will be addressed. And when they say, "Yeah, we'll address it," but that doesn't mean we're going to have a solution for it necessarily. I think I think that that people do believe that the the master plan is a solution. Yeah. Well, [laughter]

it's it's policy. You know, I think sometimes you hit it lucky because Jim Anowitz had a lot to do with the development on FiveM Road just east of uh back where you have the uh what used to be the Arby's and all of that. There are three owners of those uh the strip mall things that are going in there. and he got he sat them down and worked with them quite a long time to not have curb cuts for every single one. So, it was a coordinated effort uh to do that. And I think that was a new development though.

That was a new development. That's going to be the problem if we hope have hope for the Burger King, the hospital and and the vict fitness center. Um hopefully that would all come together at one spot, you know, at one time that you could develop that. Um but time will tell.

Sometimes I don't think we have complete control because it just is a lot has to do with timing. on page 11. Um Liz did a nice job of pulling together uh the recommendations of the city of Plymouth's 2025 master plan and what they have envisioned and planned for it. And I I think this is really important to [snorts] make sure that both the city and the township are aligned. So um they acknowledge that um the Ann Arbor Road Corridor for the city is its most intent intensive commercial area. Um and even though it's auto oriented, right? Um, meaning that many of the services you drive a vehicle to and um you may be driving from other communities um to patronize those businesses or services that the the city uh desires pedestrian enhancements and a cohesive visual identity across the jurisdictional boundaries. um that is language from their plan and I think that is very important and we should be mirroring that language to to complement um what they are doing. Um so in terms of land use for the corridor, the city is looking at retail, office and service uses with some limited upper level residential and they actually prescribe a density um 18 to 27 units an acre, which when you look at the township's um multifamily zoning, it's only 11 units an acre. So like there's quite a difference. um you know they're allowing over double

um higher pardon are they going higher to get the extra units than two and a half stories uh well I'm not sure if they've prescribed uh their their zoning ordinance is the same as the townships. So their zoning ordinance today allows for two and a half stories but what they're saying in their master plan is that it may go higher.

Okay. Um the in terms of the design um of the streetscape um they want to adhere to those existing Ann Arbor corridor districts standards for consistent setbacks, signage uh building materials. They are uh looking forward to having wider sidewalks, fewer curb cuts, and better pedestrian comfort along the roadway. Um, in terms of AC access and circulation, they're still acknowledging that it's auto oriented, but they are hoping that there will be some shared parking and traffic calming. So, curb bumpouts, pedestrian islands, um, things that make it more comfortable and maybe encourage folks that live so close to that corridor to walk and to reduce their uh, travel uh, trips in the vehicle. Um and then implementation. They acknowledge that any zoning um or design amendments to their code um should will require the cooperation between the township um

and their administration. So yeah, that is wonderful to see in their um plan and I hope that we can mimic um some of that in the townships. Um so as far as like their plan on the township um there's a couple bullets here um for consideration. Um so policy alignment um looking at a joint zoning update to uh amend the code to really target some of those uses that both the city and the township are looking at um seeing in the future. um coordinating with streetscape improvements. Um so future investments by the DDA um should um be aligned with what they are doing for that north um onem stretch. um looking at um maybe doing some shared branding or just redevelopment initiatives, economic development outreach um to um attract businesses and um help businesses that are existing in the corridor that maybe want to expand um or relocate um to help them do so or to do a you know facade improvement. Um so trying to streamline those services and improve uh coordination. Um transportation they would be um a necessary partner in any improvements to the Arbor Corridor uh in conjunction with MDOT. Um access management um how can we better consolidate access points? Um so if we are looking at doing a access management plan for the corridor they would need to be involved. Um access management is not just the access on the same side um of the corridor. So it's not just looking at

the access points on the south but actually both and how those driveways line up and interact and the spacing between them. Um so for that onem stretch that is also very important um to have them as a partner. and then govern governance um uh recommending that we just duplicate that language and say any zoning or design amendment should trigger cooperation between the city and the township um and either having formal agreements or we've discussed in the past having a joint workshop. You see that a lot with um uh townships um and cities where they're you know so connected um such as this like geographically. Um, so that might be a great opportunity sometime in the future to have a joint planning commission um meeting between the city and the township. I think I think that uh analysis of where the city is going is especially important for considerations on where the township is going with the corridor and making sure that those are aligned and cohesive and um ensure that future collaboration. So if there's anything that you would like us to do like a deeper dive with on this again originally we weren't going to provide this much detail on an arbor road but I think it is worthwhile. Um, but if you have additional points um that you'd like us to look into or revisions to that, please let us know. I do think um maybe [clears throat] just to put it in perspective uh Spalding could give us a rough cost estimate for what a comprehensive study [snorts] would look like. And just having that number um out there I think maybe would be informative to the public um and to the township on what that would wouldn't would entail.

Spalding Spalding has traffic engineers on staff. Yes, they do. Yeah, they wouldn't be pro like providing a scope of work, but we could you know they're familiar with this language and uh they could probably give uh an estimate in today's dollars on what that would take to complete such a study. if you think that would be helpful. I think it would be helpful if we're going to if we make that recommendation in the in our master plan or however way we propose it. Uh that's going to be the first question is how much is this going to cost? Is Spalding is that specifically referring to a comprehensive traffic study?

Yes. if if that's one of the action items in the plan, like let's put a price tag on it and see just make it very clear to the public um and to this body of what what it would take um to complete that and is is there a possibility of phasing that or breaking it up or what if different jurisdictions contributed is it manageable um if they would help the conversation? I would strongly support that myself. Okay, that's an excellent suggestion. [clears throat] Okay, I will I will request that from them.

Yeah, it seems to me that somewhere in this process, and I'm not sure where uh when we're talking about traffic again, somehow um the uh Michigan Department of Transportation has to get involved or have we have to have some meetings with them because look how long it took to put a stop here at Mccclumla and then our road.

Years. years and we've had a few people complain even on the west side of the township, well I can't get out of my subdivision. I've experienced that myself. Usually if something's like this last summer with the with the freeway if they've closed a lane and people will say I'll just take the surface route. um Salem Springs if that comes to be that's just going to get worse time. Um Dave, to your point, we need to be very transparent with the public as to what the timing and implications of this would be. My point simply is if you don't take the first step, you'll never know or you'll do what Ford Road did where they didn't take this step 20 or 30 years ago when they should have and here we are now and they've got a huge issue on their hands.

So, and spending millions 50 years ago. Yeah. 50. Okay. 1970s when that's a long time ago. [laughter] It all started with Myers. Yeah, I remember that they put that in and there wasn't anything out there. It was farmland.

I remember going by when it opened and the line was just a mile long at least. And I didn't know what Myers was. I thought, "What kind of store is this?" [clears throat] My [laughter] that started with Meyer. It started with Burger King and it started with Super Bowl. That was a three. Oh, and the only other fixture out there was the state police officer that would sit in Meyer parking lot when Super Bowl was letting out of their leagues so they get can get all the beer drinkers. And then it was a two I think Ford Road was a two-lane road at that time. It was Well, I remember when it was three lanes. There was just two lanes and then the center was like a passing lane.

Yep. Well, I I I think I remember when it was just an east and west and west. Yeah, that that was way before my time. [clears throat] I used to like you. [laughter]

Any other comments on this language at this time? So any comments we have, we can just email them to you. Yes, please. Yeah, please email the planning email.

Is that it, Laura? Yes. Okay. Next is uh election of officers. Um are are we going to talk about the master plan [snorts] timing draft? So, uh, when when do you think we'll have a master plan draft to to look at? U, provided that we can access our server later this week. We still don't have access. Um, [snorts] Tuesday. Coming Tuesday. Yeah. Is the plan if that happens, is the plan just to email it to us or Oh, okay.

Why would have to serve? [snorts] uh just uh having some some technical uh issues that our IT department is trying to work out, but we don't have access to client files right now. Put it in the cloud with a a data center. [laughter] Give it the 21st century. Just one question. We got a Meyer package in here. Yeah, I asked I asked staff to provide us that because we had these other two you know the tractor supply because I never did see uh you know the way it was hand you know went to courts okay

just to put it in I mean now I see enough of myers that I got an idea of how it's going to look and the layout of it but I think it's important for us to but the addition of that third page with the roads that's the first time I've seen that that was very helpful yeah it was I'll certainly do the email because I couldn't get in this afternoon. Well, anything we might Let's do commission comments then we'll get back to election. Anybody else have any other questions about anything?

So, a couple quick comments just FYIs. Um, [clears throat] I believe I noticed as you're driving east on FiveM Road, uh, just east of Beck, there was that one narrow piece of property on the south side of the road that we had reviewed for, I believe it was a vehicle storage, u application, and then the sign went back up saying it was for sale. It looks like now they're actually starting to remove some trees in that property. Do we know if there's been any definitive development next steps in that back on five mile east of Beck, south side of the

that strip that was owned by the ice arena when they sold it. Oh, that finger parcel. Yeah. Um, no, we have not seen anything on that. So, if you've noticed site clearing, we'll bring that up with the building department.

Okay. Um, and then the other FYI was just I noticed uh or my neighbors did last week that the site that's been for sale at the souththeast corner of Ridge in North Territorial. I remember at one point there was a dental office proposed um there was a survey team last week doing a survey there. So I presume you'll be seeing something on that. Okay. We um that's good information. We have not been contacted about that property. Anything new there? Is that zoned as commercial? No, it's single family residential. Residential. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. So, I thought we didn't want to uh we're, you know, to have that office building. They wanted it reszoneed because it's residential. Yeah. But then we were concerned that it would just continue to grow with the adjoining homes. So, Okay. And then I have a question or a comment. I noticed the uh where the where Amazon was going to put their grocery store. There's a fore sign there. You heard anything about that? Okay. Where? Right here by the Amazon's going to be there's a for Amazon store.

I think it was in there's always been one on the store next door. thing cuz I was driving by there and it just I just caught it out of the corner of my eye. Always been I know the one that empty the next adjoining space but Amazon's put so many restrictions on what can go in there that it's going to be and Amazon has already I think there was one on the east side of the metro area that they've closed. So, anybody else have questions, comments? All right. Ready for election? Well, how should we approach this? Um,

anybody want I I uh nominate for chairperson uh Dennis [snorts] Sabowski. Second by Commissioner Boyd, supported by Commissioner Dors Chavis. Are there any other nominations? Are we ready for a motion? All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. [clears throat] I [snorts] abstain. Motion carries. Thank you. I think [laughter] vice chair, vice person. Uh well I would nominate uh Tim Boyd supported

by Sabolski and supported by who said it first? Dan Dan Callahan. Any other nominations hearing? None. Is there a motion to uh or a motion to approve? Yeah, like a motion to approve. Second. Yeah, we did. No. Uh all in favor? Oh, okay. Yeah. I I I lost my train of thought. We're here for you. [laughter] All right. Like you asked, so we jump. I wanted to vote. I didn't want another. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Motion. Boyd abains. Okay. And Boyd abstains. And secretary. Uh well, I guess I would nominate Steuart Pop.

Yeah, I'll second it. Okay. by Sabolski and supported by Iikes. Any other nominations? Okay. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. All right. No further comments. So, is there a motion to adjourn at 8:38? Mr. Chair, I move we adjourn at 8:38 p.m. There support. Support. Move by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Lawway to abstain at 8:38. All in favor signify by saying I I opposed. Motion carries. Ajourned.