Board of Aldermen - Regular Meeting

Okay. Uh just to inform everybody, this is a semi-judicial hearing. Uh I hereby call this hearing to order pursuant to chapter 21 of the city code of Ashlin of the city of Ashlin, Missouri. This hearing concerns the city business license held by owner Valerie Frost and Charles Swampster for the business known as Mary James Place located on a property commonly known as 503 Douglas Drive Asher, Missouri. For this hearing, the board of alderman will hear all the evidence and testimony presented. After the evidence has been concluded, the board of Auburn may vote to suspend or revoke the business license or may take no actions against the business license. This testimony give given at this hearing shall be given under oath. Those will speak with those who will speak will be sworn in by our city clerk. Any party and his or her attorneys shall make their entries of appearance at this time. Nathan Nicholas for the city of Ashifer for mayor James.

And at this time would all the witnesses be removed and put into separate state. Correct. Yes. Anybody else on your part? just just those three. All right. Is a license holder present? He is.

Please uh reflect the record that the license holder is here. Please note that although we do not have a court reporter present, the hearing is recorded and can be transcribed if necessary. Before giving testimony, please state your name and record and your address. Any anyone wishing to testify today, please stand up to be sworn in. You'll get them individually as they

we'll get Yeah, we'll get you. All right. So, move on. Uh the city attorney will present the city uh city's case and evidence and after he is through the license holder may be heard and pre present evidence. Evidence that is relevant shall address why the business license shall not be suspended or revoked in accordance with the statement particular set forth in the notice provided to the lences. Once all affected parties have been have had a chance to make their case and present ev present evidence, the board of alderman may make their decision. City attorney, please.

Mr. Mayor, uh before we begin, Mr. Feifer has filed a motion and perhaps we want to take that up before we begin. Go ahead, Mr. Thank you, your honor. Um Mr. Mr. Mayor, Mr. What should I call you, sir? Honor mayor. How's that? Do you want me at the podium or? Yes, sir. Please come to the podium. State your name. Great. My name is Greg Feifer. I'm an attorney out of Columbia, Missouri. I represent um Chip Stu. Um

yes, George Strer and Mary James plays today. Um with me is my investigator, Alex Perry. He has an extensive legal background as well. And um before we start, I'd like to to say this. Before any evidence is presented here tonight, before we get into any of the issues, we need to dra address a threshold um issue of fundamental fairness and due process. As as you know, any sort of proceeding, whether it's legal, quasi legal, a meeting like this requires strict adherence to due process. Okay? and fundamental ferris. In in this case, on February 5th, we formally requested all materials that the city intended to rely on in support of this proposed license revocation. The city did not produce any materials to us that they plan to introduce tonight until March 15th. That was a Sunday. It was approximately 5:00 p.m. on Sunday. There was complex lab analysis, testing procedures, um details of how they did a an alleged undercover controlled type by and all of that was presented to us on Sunday evening. Um they they include laboratory testing that appears in the form that appears to form the central basis of the city's case. Um we have had no meaningful opportunity to review these reports one day. Um evaluate their methodology and investigate the chain of custody um or to consult and have our own

experts regarding their validity and and reliability. And I'll note that this this hearing we were originally noticed back in in November October

October originally we had a lots of conversations with the city attorney at the time then and with the new city attorney. The first thing that happened is we did a a month continuence. We appreciate that time, but that month was not used to provide us any way to adequately prepare for a case that's that's basically going to be based on complex lab tests. As I as I said earlier, um proceeding under these circumstances, they they deprive the respondent of a meaning meaningful opportunity to be heard and for due process to play out. A business license, as you all know, is a is a protected property interest. Okay? And it cannot be taken on lastm minute disclosures. um untested evidence that was given to us or a thorough investigation of how that evidence that they're going to use was obtained, how it was tested, how it was handled, any of your your typical chain of custody issues. Accordingly, we object to the introduction of all of these late disclosed exhibits, like I say, less than 24 hours. um request that they be excluded from tonight's hearing. And in the alternative, we would respectfully request a continuence to allow us adequate time to review the evidence and properly prepare a defense of it. Again, I can I I think I have uh a sample just that that I could may I may I approach?

And as you can see, I just want to show what we're looking at.

Yeah. Well, no, I just wanted to give you guys just a flavor of the of the types of of calculations and numbers and different thing that they've asked us to try to evaluate. As you can see, there's literally dozens of of canabonoids. So that that would be um what we would ask today. We would ask that these these should have been provided us in a much more timely manner to to spring them on us at the last second. We do not think comports at all with fundamental fairness or due process. Um accordingly we have filed several motions. Um the we we filed these in in circuit court

and I have I have some copies if you guys I don't know if they're lawyers in the bunch or so just yeah just may I get you give you a couple of them and they are pretty um they're pretty detailed. These are about you know we use pretty much all of our time in the day and a half to try to get this together. So, um, there's a flavor of that. Did you want one of the sir? Sure. Yeah. I mean, they got to be emailed, but I'll I'll take the papers, too. I didn't really know how many of you all were here. Are you talking about the motion you filed today? Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. But not in circuit court. I'm sorry. You said it was filed in circuit court.

No. Where did we file? The clerk. We filed with this with the clerk here in Ashley. That'll probably be the the next step if if we go that far.

Is that it, sir? I'm sorry. Are you done, sir? Um, I'm not sure.

Well, yeah, there there was a couple other things that that I wanted you to consider on our on our request to exclude a lot of this evidence or all of it or give us a a continuence. Um there was a um okay the original allegation on the conduct that was the basis of this dates back to September of 2025. However, the laboratory testing that the city now relies on was not conducted until months later. Okay. So obviously as I talked to you earlier that that that raises all sorts of question of of chain of custody but it also raises the issue that as we go through either today or if we had that continuence we there's going to be a lot of information about how the canabonoids in the cannabis plant can fluctuate. One of the things that can make the readings fluctuate higher is in a if they're in a hot environment.

Okay. Is council testifying at this point? No, I'm just explaining to them that one of our the fact that they can fluctuate

and we can we can get into that but that poses problems when they held that for months. Okay. And additionally, the laboratory testing the city now relies on um uh was obtained only after the initial hearing of February 17th. So they have it looks like they've used this time of this continuence to actually build whatever kind of case that they're they're building. Okay. Um um after the continuence was requested and granted, then there was a new alleged incident on February 20th, 2026, which we'll call the the WAX um transaction. So that occurred again well before the initial idea in uh October that you were going to revoke his license. Okay. And then the last thing I would I would just note on this little thing is from October until this very day, there's been no police activity, there's been no arrest, there's been no anything that would rise to any level of criminality. So that we would ask that we also don't refer in this hearing if we if it's allowed to go further to sales as in somebody sold something because we don't know we I think we're going to find with the lack of evidence how that chain is not complete. So unless there's renumeration and an exchange of goods for money, we would ask that they not be allowed to refer to this as sales until they approved such.

Thanks, sir.

I think that's that's it for now. Thank you for the for listening on the opening statement. So, um, in terms of of the delay, um, you know, there was an initial conversation between myself and council, uh, where I, you know, talk discussed with them, you know, that in an administrative hearing such as this, we don't follow the formal rules of evidence. There's no formal discovery. uh but that if there were things that he wanted that uh I would I would let them know. I do not recall any February 5th motion for uh for production of things. Um really on the 15th I sent him information mostly mostly out of courtesy because I had not heard from him uh since that time. As far as the other things that are in his motion, he basically has has three uh chain of custody. If he says hasn't been established, well, it hasn't because we haven't put on our evidence yet. But I think we will put that on to your satisfaction. How the testing was done. Yes, you don't know how that was done yet because we haven't put that testimony on yet. But you will hear about how that was done and you will hear from someone who's actually qualified to talk about how marijuana is tested and you know uh you can find out whether or not the potency of marijuana changes. Um and as far as the date of lab testing, there were three lab tests. One was the one that was initially based that this case was initially based on. There were two subsequent ones. We are not pursuing those other two tonight. We will reserve those. And uh if we're unsuccessful tonight, then we'll then we'll proceed on those at a at a future date. And frankly, uh, I think what you're going to see from the testimony is it's easy to walk into this place and buy things, to buy illegal things. And

so it will not be hard for us, should this case be dismissed, to find additional ones as as you're seeing. U there hasn't been any any law enforcement activity on this. That is true, but that's irrelevant. That's up to the prosecutor. Come on. That's up to the prosecutor and the county uh county sheriff's department is has been referred to them. Whether they will prosecute or not, that's not something the city the city has any control of. Um, you know, why they haven't prosecuted, I couldn't tell you. But we will show you the evidence of what's really going on in in that place. I would ask you to uh go ahead and allow us to proceed tonight to put on the evidence. And uh you know, you can you can make your judgment on whether or not his motion to withhold evidence uh is warranted at the end of the at the end of the hearing. And if you do think that it is, then I would ask that it be continued so that we can have he can have a chance to more fully investigate his case. Thanks. I would move that the board of alderman stand in recess until 7:30 this day to review the uh motion in lemony presented by Mary Jane's place.

If I could really quick, I have the I have February 5th communications between u Mr. Nicholas and and myself. Just give this to Miss Brenda. And and the one thing I'd I'd add to that is, yeah, this is an administrative hearing and the rules of evidence aren't the same as in a courtroom. That's correct. But due process still applies whether you're in a courtroom or in a town hall OR

OKAY, STOP. Next outburst, I will have the police remove everybody. You want to challenge? We have a motion on the table. We have a motion on the table. We have a second. Second. All in favor? I recess. I'm sorry.

The board will be recessed till 7:30 and they will go into the office. There was two motions. Next. I didn't know if there was a counter to be had a clerk. website.

You know about you kind of couldn't open up Let me ask you a legisl 10 minutes. I'd like to talk to I should have done a better job.

like your predecessor industry. We don't understand. All right. still back there. Keep up Right.

This is your job. I don't know. Okay. Close. A lot of times And my first Wait.

question. That was my initial injection. Ready? Where'd he go? Yeah, good morning. All

right, our recess has expired and we are now back in session. I would move that respondent motion and nominate to exclude laboratory reports, test results, and related testimony be denied. Second. All

in favor? I I will go on to the Senate terms report. Yes, mayor board. This case is really pretty simple. This case is not about where whether marijuana is a good thing. Voters already decided that. It's not whether or not hemp is legal or illegal. That's already been decided. Question is, is what they are doing legal or illegal? Okay. And marijuana in Missouri can only be sold by a licensed facility. There's no doubt that this facility is not a licensed facility. Um, and so then we will show you that we were able to walk into this place, purchase not hemp but marijuana, and that that is a common operating operating practice of this business. We will show you that your ordinances say that if illegal activity is going on in the premises, you can revoke the business license. And we will ask you to revoke that business license. And that's all you can call your first witness.

Yes. Um, I'm going to show you all. Um, I I took to heart the idea that this isn't a courtroom, so rules of evidence are a little less. So I think we'll try to do the common sense approach also. Um these were all bought and we have the video evidence when they were being bought. Um

unlike this being not relevant whether other people committing crimes has no relevance as to whether or not his client's business license should be kept. It I think it goes to the idea that everybody that operates in Ashland has a business license. I'm assuming that can be revoked or allowed to work or Well, we're not here talking about legal stuff. No, I understand. But you you are they do have business licenses.

Okay. Every one of these as I I'll show were bought at gas stations, service stations in this town within the last We have the receipts here. It looks like it was February 1st. Okay. these products, as you can see, and and and I'd like to pass them out. They're the exact things that are sold there. We're going to have to get into the the the reason that these gas stations operate with impunity from law enforcement is because they're not illegal.

Thank you. Now, I would I would like to say that coming into November 18th when some the federal legislation that's been passed to close this loophole, you can Google it, look at it. We've got some stuff for you. It's it was closed specifically by the big beautiful bill hemp exception that allowed these products to be sold. They're all over Colombia. There are standalones everywhere in Boone County and other counties. Okay. I don't we don't really understand why they've chosen to target only Mary Jane's place. But once again, a little bit of fundamental fairness. But all of these products are the same. You can examine them, touch them, read them. They're THC and THCA, Delta 9 THC. Okay. And I think the strongest evidence that they're not an illegal product is the police. And certainly you all would not allow this to happen. If they were selling cocaine or methamphetamine or uh liquor without a license, that wouldn't be allowed to happen. This goes every day. I know you all have seen them. If you went to any of the gas stations, you've seen them. They're unavoidable. And the reason they exist is right now there's this loophole. The the federal government has just moved to close it, which goes into effect November 18th, and my understanding is that the state legislature is frantically trying to close this loophole. So that there it is. That's why he feels comfortable

to sell this, why the gas stations feel comfortable, where why the liquor stores, whoever selling it, because it is products. Yes, THC is in there. And if we want to go through a three-hour thing because it's a very complex issue to explain how it comes together, but a sample looking at these THC infused, it doesn't even mention THCA. It's not even taking advantage of the loophole as far as their packaging. I do my objection. This has no relevance. I think I believe that it does have relevance when it's a business license. I would ask the board to decide.

Again, we would we would again like to object to the continuation of this hearing without a proper time to examine their evidence and we'd object to the characterization that what Mr. Schwarz troover does in his shop is a crime because clearly it has not shown by anything to be a crime. And I'd like to go with my opening statement. Now, would you guys like to examine these? Thank you. I would move that Mr. Nicholas's objection and Mr. Fifer's both objections be overruled at this time. Second

call my witness. Yes. I have I have a little bit more on my Okay. Yeah. Well, and I objected to that obviously not being able to finishing. That seemed very arbitrary. I didn't know there was time limits. There's not a time limit, sir, but we we let you go as far as you wanted to. You didn't go did present the statement that you wanted. Thank you. I just object on the record. Thank you. I would once again move Mr. Fer's objection. You have a rule. Second. All in favor.

So at this time we're going to call your witness. So we're not really set up very well. So I'm going to witness chair. Bring him up to Darl be sworn in. Okay. Where would be on? Anywhere. Right there. It's capturing your guys' table. So wherever you want him, wherever you want to stand. If you want to stand at the podium, have him. truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. If so, please state I do.

I do. Your honor, I would object that we we don't know who this guy is. He hasn't been disclosed to us. We haven't had a chance to examine him, question him, or even know him. We I don't even know what his name is. And we've had months, your your honor, we've had like over a month extension, and we we don't even know who the guy is. So, we object to his testimony at all. I move the objection be overruled. All in favor? I proceed. Will you state your name for the record? David Wilson. Mr. Wilson, uh, are you currently employed?

I am retired. Okay. And you retired from where? Uh, Boone County Sheriff's Office in December of 2025. Can you just in briefly and generally explain your duties as a deputy sheriff? I uh at the time of retirement, I was a sergeant in the detective unit and I was tasked with uh investigating u drug and violent crime. And uh were you contacted by Chief Scott Young of the Ashlin Police Department? Yes, in March of sometime in March of 2025.

What did he contact you in regards to you? Uh, Chief Young indicated that uh their department had received a couple of uh anonymous complaints about drug sales at Mary Jane's place. Okay. And uh did he ask you to investigate that? Yes. And how did you investigate that allegation?

Excuse me. I I'd object to that as being hearsay. What he's saying, what Chief Young said to him classically hearsay. There's been no foundation. There's been no establishment. Once again, I'm not even sure except that he's a retired policeman, how he even got into this, much less what the chief may or may not have said to him. I'll withdraw the question. Thank you. Did you have cause to investigate Mary Jane's place here in Asheville, Missouri?

Yes, I did. And uh when you went into Mary Jane's place, can you explain what it was like going into that? Um I went to the business in September 5th of 2025. Uh I walked in uh made contact with who I thought to be an employee of the business. Uh they asked me to fill out a uh form and uh I did that and uh had to pay a fee to enter and that was it. In that form, was that a holdarmless agreement of some sort? Yes.

Did it specifically reference that marijuana was being consumed on the premises? Objection, your honor. I don't remember what the board said. Yeah, there that's assuming facts. not in evidence. We haven't seen the form. How we don't know any of this. Does he have does if he could produce the form, we'd be happy to go through it, but something that he did back in when was that? I I withdraw the question. Withdraw. Thank you.

Okay. So, um after you after you paid your money and you went in, can you tell me what you saw in the premises? Um, I remember at least two rooms. Uh, there were several tables set up. There were people behind the tables. There was u quantities of marijuana. There were custo. We don't know that it was quantities of marijuana. He we don't know what that was, but he might have seen on that day. I'll withdraw. Thank you. Did you see a green leafy substances on the tables? Yes.

And based on your training and experience as a police officer, as a deputy sheriff, did you have reason to believe that that might be marijuana? Yes. Did you attempt to purchase some of that possible marijuana? Yes, I did. Do you recognize this picture? Uh, I'd object to that. I haven't seen the picture. I don't know the walk over to him as fast as I can. I don't know the We don't know the origin of this picture. Your honor. Okay. You can object every time, but you have to allow me to lay the foundation. Well, before you withdrew the question. So,

okay. But you can't object to the foundation not being laid. You object before I can lay it. Okay. Go ahead. Sorry. Do you recognize that picture? Yes. Tell me what that picture depicts. I'd object. Now your your your honor. He he he said he recognizes this picture. Like was this the picture that he bought at the store? Is that what he's saying? Is that No, he hasn't said that. He said he recognized the picture. You recognize this picture? Okay. Please listen to the evidence. I will. Gentlemen, please direct your comments to the panel. Okay. Okay. I'll ask you again. Do you recognize the picture? Yes.

It is a quantity quantity of what I believe to be marijuana. This I had purchased. This is what you purchased on September the 5th. Correct. All right. And after you purchased Well, let me let me ask you first. Looking around that room on that day, do you have an idea how many tables there were? I don't recall how many tables there were. Did you see the owner of Mary James in the premises at that time? an answer. I don't know who the owner is. Okay. See the gentleman see the tear. Did you see that man that day? I don't recall. 6 months ago. I don't recall. Sure.

On all these tables, was there any identification as to what was being sold? Do they have signs or labels of any kind? The only thing I remember the table that I had went to there was um documentation indicating prices etc and all that stuff but no specifically what they were selling. Okay.

Was there any signs or any kind of mechanism in the premises that would have attempted to control the illegal sale of marijuana on that location? I don't recall the signage or anything like that. All right. After after you purchased that substance, what did you do with it? I uh weighed it, packaged it, and submitted into our evidence. When you're talking about our evidence, referring to the Boom County Sheriff's Department.

Boom County Sheriff's Office. Yes. Can you tell me that document exhibit four? Just for the record, the last one was exhibit three. I will provide copies for us, too. Yes. Copies for Do you recognize that? It's a property release form.

Is that what you felt that? Uh, we we'd object to this document. Um, it it's unsigned except for it looks like Chief Scott Young, APD. I'm assuming that's Ashlin Police Department. Yeah. That's not your name, is it? You're not Mr. Young. No, sir. Okay. So, it's unsigned except for Chief Young. You're Mr. Is is that what you turned into sheriff's department? read a check to this piece of evidence.

Can I have copies of that?

I haven't been introduced in evidence. If you want to take one and pass it I don't Just

I move that the objection be overruled pending further foundation being laid by Chief Young. Good. I I have a quick question. Is this is are are you Mr. Mossmger? No. Did you are you Mr. Objection. He doesn't get to ask questions. I didn't touch his name. I didn't object. I just asked. You just You just did. Objection. So, no. I objected to that. Will you Will you state your name again? David Wilson. David Wilson. Thank Thank you, sir. Yeah.

Okay. I'm going to ask you again. Is this the document that you filed with the sheriff's department when you gave them the evidence? This document is a release of the evidence from the Boone County Sheriff's Office to the Ashwan Police Department. So, it was not the document that you filed. Correct. This is the release. Okay. Thank you. I'll take that back. Just for the record, I had moved that we overrule the objection to foundation until such time as um it's introduced into evidence and Chief Young can speak to the foundation. So, there's a motion pending before the body. Second. Hi. Hi.

Yeah. Well, our objection was that it was an incomplete form, not signed and purports to have a signature of somebody that's not here to to to testify to the veracity of that. That's not even an objection. Well, that's your objection on counselor. Okay, you two calm down. Oh, both of you. Okay. So this will be and we will evidence until Chief Yuncan. I'm not introducing it.

Okay. Thank you. Okay, Mr. Wilson. I'm showing you what's marked as exhibit five. Can you identify what that document is? This will be a photograph of the packaging that I used in when I packaged the uh marijuana that I had. I would have to again we never received this prior two minutes ago. I move that that objection be overruled as was part of the basis for the motion lemony which we've already ruled on.

Yeah. Second, second motion everybody. I now u after you delivered it to the uh county sheriff's department, that's the last contact you had with this evidence. No. Okay. Um I checked it out of evidence and released it to the Ashlin Police Department to Chief Young. Chief Young. Yes. And that was the last time I had any contact with the evidence.

I have no further questions for this witness. Mr. Fiber, would you like to cross examine? Yes, please. Please, please. Okay. So, when you entered Mary James and um were you working on your own or were you getting paid? You said you're retired. How how'd that come about? I was on duty at the time. So you were How's that work? When you're When you're retired, they'll just swear you in or how's that work? Deputize you? I wasn't retired at the time that I bought this. Oh, you were an active police officer? I did not retire until December 2025.

I see. Ah, that's that's that's interesting. when um so when you claim that you bought if I could approach this. Yes. Okay. How much was that? Are you talking about the weight or the price? Both. I paid 50 bucks for it and it should have been 7 g. When I got back to the sheriff's office with packaging it was 9.17 g. So, is this picture here represent 9 g? This picture represents the marijuana that I purchased that weighed 9 g.

Well, I don't know what it weigh in this picture. I just know what it weighed when I put it into evidence. Okay. And then and do you know who you bought that from? No. Did you get a receipt? No. You suspected that it was illegal marijuana? Yes. And you were working for who?

The Boone County Sheriff's Office. Did you then initiate a request for a warrant or did you think about putting the guy under arrest or at least investigating or you decided to do what with that? I had previously had a conversation with my supervisor and it was decided that we would uh only investigate or assist the city of Ashlin in their complaint. That's it. The city in of Ashland got you to investigate. They requested our assistance in investigating. Who did that?

Chief Young. Chief Young. Um, are you aware of THCA, THC, the Hemp Bill of 2018, the Farm Bill, the Farm Act? Are you familiar with how any of those things fit together? Nope. So, do do you understand that there's places have you ever been to any of the gas stations or have you ever bought similar products anywhere else in Ashland? No. Have you ever investigated anywhere else? Not specifically. Are you talking about marijuana or

Yeah. Since these ordinances have passed, since marijuana became legal, have you ever investigated any other spot marijuana? No, just Mary James. Yes. How long you been a police officer? Uh was 28 and half years. And you do drug stuff? Yes. Okay. Um and did you you can't identify who allegedly sold you this product? No. Do you have a receipt? No. Did you mark the bills? No. Did you have recording equipment?

There was a recording equipment, but it did not uh activate. So you you went in there with recording equipment, but you didn't activate. Correct. Okay. So if you were in a criminal case, you've done this for hypothetical. Yeah. You're a police officer. Was you investigated you drug dealing and drug selling before? Yes. Have you ever had experience with how controlled buys are done and yes things of that nature undercover? Have you ever worked undercover? No. Have you ever sent undercover people in? You ever handled them?

I have done covert details and utilized informants. So you're familiar with what you would do is if somebody was selling illegal drugs, how you might go about arresting them, correct? But did you do any of that in this case? No. Like I said before, the decision was made to assist the city of Ashland in their complaint. Okay. Did they receive was that a written complaint? I don't know. You have to ask Chief Young. Did Did he you and him keep any records of this complaint and this task? All I know is it was two anonymous complaints. That's all I know. That's what Chief That's what Chief Young had told me. Yes. He's not here today, is he? Yes, he is here. Yes. Is he going to testify? that are you involved?

I am. That would be great. But you can't ask any witness that. Yeah. Did you I didn't even know he was here. Thanks for asking that. Well, on one hand, it's uh liberally rules of evidence and I'm trying I could do it strictly like a court, but trying to move it on or we'll be here all night. Really? I mean, there's a lot to to go over. I skipped dinner. Huh? I said I already skipped dinner. So, we're safe.

There we go. Um, okay. So then when you I was a little unclear when you had the the substance that that you alleged that you pose purchased at Mary Jane's place with no receipt, no any procedures. We're taking your word for it today, I guess. Correct. Not alleged. I did purchase it. Okay. And uh you don't have any proof of that though? No. Okay. So then you handled it off to who did you hand it off to after you bought it? I submitted it to our evidence custodians. And who was that? It was put into an evidence locker. Who did that?

I put it in the evidence locker. You specifically did anyone else handle it between you and putting it in the evidence locker? No. Okay. So it goes in the evidence locker. Then what happened to it? If you know it was secured by the evidence custodians. I don't know their process or anything. Do you know what happened to it after that? It was maintained in the evidence custody of the evidence custodians. Is it there now? No. Where is it now? As I said before, yeah,

as I testified earlier, yeah, I released it to Chief Young in October of 2025. Do you know what you did with that? That's not a question. Question for I asked you, do you know, sir? I do not know. Okay. That be a question for GPI. Okay. Do you know why the Boone County Sheriff's Department didn't go ahead and proceed with some sort of investigation and prosecution on those?

As I stated before, that was discussed with my supervisor and it was decided that we would only do what was asked by the city of Ashlin. So, if the city of Ashlin would have asked you to do a criminal prosecution, then you would have done that. Yes. Fair enough. Um Um How come the form that was provided by you, I think I have a copy here. How come you didn't sign that?

I don't object. I think we've established that it wasn't the form that he used. Okay, that form I was signed by Chief Young. And for the record, we're talking about exhibit four. Exhibit four. I would think that the objection would be overruled. Second.

Okay. And and I would just like to point out one further thing on that to go with your overruling is it is released here by DL Wilson. It says, and there is a form here for release officer signature or owner witness signature, and it's unsigned. So, we would once again renew our objection to allowing this in as evidence.

So, when you You had conversations with the chief about what? About this stuff, about marijuana, about THCA, about going undercover into a place and and buying product. I mean, did did you speak with the chief about that before? I didn't tell him all the stuff that we were doing. I told him that we would assist them. Okay. Um, and then for lastly, once you hand it off to him, you don't know what happened to it. Correct. Have you seen it since? No.

Okay. Anything else? Um, I have two more just quick questions for you. Um, when you released this to the chief, where was that physically located? Were you in his office? Your office cars here at the Ashlin Police Department. It was at the Ashlin Police Department.

Yes. And um Yeah. Yeah. Do you know how come it says the Boone County Sheriff's Office instead of Ashlin Police Department? What are you talking on that forum? If you'll look I don't have that name. Yeah, the the form um right here. If I could approach, see that right there? That's where I checked it out of at the Boone County Sheriff's Department and brought it here to the Ashlin.

So when you bought it allegedly here, you took it to the Boone County Sheriff's Department. No, I picked the evidence up at the Boone County Sheriff's Office and delivered it here to the Ashlin Police Department to Chief Young. Right. But the evidence was what you said that you bought, right? That's the evidence. Yes. Yeah. So you took it to the bone county first, put it in evidence and then brought it back to the chief. Correct. Okay.

Yeah. Um, so we've established that you haven't signed this exhibit 4. Did you sign anything that we don't have? Did you sign anything out of Boone County when when we have to check out evidence, we do do an electronic signature? Yes. Did you do that in this case? Yes. Um, do you have any evidence of that? Do you have proof of that? That's not my job to pre present the evidence. Okay, good enough. Um, no.

Lastly, I'll ask you one more time just to for the record because we're probably going to go to a different court after this. Was there a reason that you didn't sign this? Where it says your signature right here, the releasing guy. Was there a reason that you didn't sign that? No, it was signed just to show that uh the Ashlin Police Department took custody of it. Okay. Thank you. Any further questions for this witness? You'll call your next witness.

Yes. Call Sarf. Phil, you call Chief Scott Young. Scott Young.

Yeah. Sorry. Mr. Mayor, um we'd like to make sure if we could that you had represented earlier that this is all being recorded. Could we make sure that that's happening? And we did have a request and a motion that it be recorded that we didn't we didn't bring because you said that it was recorded. This is all being recorded. Thank you.

I would make a motion that the board stand in recess until 8:10 this day. Second. All in favor? All right.

Another day. Yeah, I just uh I'm from so I want to take an opportunity while you two are here to thank representing us. Don't you live by?

Yeah. I thought I saw you. Yeah. Yeah. I seen you over there. Thanks for your service, too. I love it. I'm going to vote for you in this election. I appreciate that. I need to get Yeah. So, one of you Thank you for One term. One term is a lot.

Sometime you can write her name in for another term. Yeah, you should write her name. You should you should write her name. I bet you I bet you all your neighbors. I'll come over. Okay, sounds good. I'll come by. All right. You got food,

too? I know. It's you getting

dinnerlessly on order pizza.

Yeah, I'm tell you guys when I stepped out to go grab a bite to eat, but I forgot question. That was that was a big move.

Yeah. Two minutes.

I know it. I want to do midnight.

I think as long as that's what I'm saying. I want I want to match them. will be the first time ever. Glad I won't go that far.

I just want to go up and I'll be part of the group. He's more on the left. I know. It's just Yeah.

Sometimes What are you doing here? because I recess has expired. We're back in open session.

Can you swear in the next witness, please? You feel today is the truth. The whole truth, nothing but the truth. If so, please state. I do. I do. I sit down. You be kind enough to state your name. Scott. Yeah. And how are you? I'm the chief of police in How long have you been the chief of police? Two and a half years, roughly. Prior to that, did you have any police experience? Uh 26 years with the Columbia Police Department and three years prior to that with Gladstone Police Department. And do your duties as chief include enforcing the ordinances of the city of Ashland? Yes, sir.

And as part of that, uh did you launch an investigation into Mary Jane's place? Yes, sir. And what was the suspicion about Mary Jane's place? We had gotten complaints that they were more or less open marijuana sales and and other illicit substances were being sold there. And did you do anything to substantiate those claims? I had um at the time Deputy Sergeant Dave Wilson went to investigate and see if he could make a B.

All right. And uh subsequent to that, did uh Sergeant Wilson deliver to you some a substance which he claimed to have bought at Mary Jane's place? Yes, sir. And that would have been sometime in September of 2025, I believe. So, yeah, I've got the date here if you want to look it up, but yes. Show you what's been marked as exhibit 4. Can you tell me if you recognize that document? Yes. Does that document reflect your receipt of that substance from Officer Wilson?

Yes. And this and subsequent to receiving that information or that substance from Officer Wilson, what did you do with that evidence? Well, security until in our evidence room until I took it to innovation laboratories in FAT for testing. Why did you take it to innovation laboratories in FAT? Uh, we were told it was a licensed testing facility where it was legal to take such substances and that they were authorized by the state and qualified to do such testing. And did you turn it over to somebody at Innovation Laboratories? Yes. Do you remember who? I think it's Jennifer. Jennifer Lawrence perhaps.

Yes. I've got me. Let me look. I should have receipt here somewhere, but yes. And I'll be honest with you, I've known her as Jennifer. I don't know her last name. So, but I know she's worked there for many years. In another capacity, I've had experience with that lab, and so I know she will employ you. Okay. And uh did you what did you ask Innovation Labs to do? Uh we asked them to test for THC content. Okay. Have you ever been inside Mary James? I have not. I have no further questions for this witness.

Mr. Per. Yeah. Thank you. Nice to meet you, sir. Yes, sir. Um I didn't know that you were on the list. Well, we didn't get a witness list. So, nice to meet you. Um Okay. So, I have a a couple questions. Um, I guess the first one is how come you never been inside Mary James? I just never felt the need to go. You suspected nefarious activity? Yes. So, do you ever think just to go in there? No, I have not. No reason. I just chose not to go.

All right. Well, let me ask you another question. Are you familiar with the what we've been calling here and which we might get into the the gray area loophole that that allows Mary James and the different places in town to sell this product without you arresting them? I'm going to object that he's asking this witness to testify as to what the law is. He's a police chief. Well, but not a lawyer. Yeah. I would move that the board sustain that objection as it calls for a legal conclusion. Okay, I'll I'll rephrase. Well, I'll go back. So, you never went into Mary Jane's place. That's correct.

When you suspected nefarious activities based on Do you have some reports that you can show us, some documents, something or were they the anonymous variety? They were anonymous complaints. Had two of them. Do you have copy of those? If not with me, I do have them. Yeah, they were they were because they were called into Not going to do us any good if you don't have them with you. They were called into joint communications. At least one of them was. Uh we got an anonymous tip on March the 9th, 2025. Mary Jane's Place is selling shrooms. We concentrated THC and opiate pills.

Again, this is not my complaint. This is the anonymous complaint that was that was called in on Fridays. They have multiple people selling illicit drugs in what they call a farmers market. My son who was 16 was allowed inside this shop, buys drugs there. This is not illegal business. They're breaking the law and ask them, etc. And that was anonymous. Yes. You didn't follow up with them? No. Okay. You didn't get Okay. No information. So, so heck, it sounds like they were having quite a Grateful Dead parking lot kind of scene out there. Opiates and mushrooms. And so, did you undertake any investigation immediately of that? No. question again. Why

it was a I have to say kind of a strategy concept one a straight up but purely anonymous tip. I didn't feel like that was enough uh to go take serious action on and a little bit of u uh I don't know what to describe a little bit of fuzziness on what the law is at the time on on um that business on mushrooms. Yeah. On on the state of that business. Opiates. That was fuzzy whether they could sell opiates. No, not that part. mushrooms, heroin, coke. Was that fuzzy?

I'm going to have to apologize. What's the current question, sir? The question is, if you get a report that people in your town are selling opiates, mushrooms, and I didn't know, did you list heroin or fentanyl? I don't know. But then in response to that, it seems odd that you wouldn't have done any action to that. I'm just asking you to explain to the people of the town and these guys why you did it. We ultimately did, but yes, it took a while and no, we didn't immediately go over there. Just didn't feel like we had the need didn't have the justification to go over there and push anything and also we kind of wanted to wait and see if what would develop on it. Well, hopefully nobody

and ultimately it took until the fall before we we took action. Yeah. Okay. So then when you took action and you enlisted a Boone County Sheriff guy, do you guys have a police force here in Ashland? Yes. How come you went all the way there? It's not common to send we all of our personnel are uniform personnel and generally it's not common to use uniform personnel to do undercover type work. So you didn't just think of just going into the business and looking for yourselves? Yes. And decided not to. Send none of your officers in there. Nothing. I did not.

Okay. So, that just seems weird to me. You get a report they're selling opiates and that's heroin and mushrooms and all those and you wait. Okay. So, then when you got your undercover guy to go in, did you charge him with going to find some illicit drugs or was he charged with buying some what you or he or somebody a green leafy substance? He's an experienced detective. I asked him to go and see what he could find out. Did he find any evidence of opiates? Not that I'm aware of. Did he find So, he didn't find any evidence of mushrooms? Not that I'm aware. How long was he in there? Do you know? Objection.

This witness can't testify what another witness saw. Do you Did he give you a report after he was in there? Yes. Did he have instructions when he went in there from you of what his task was to go in and investigate the premises? Okay. Again, he's an experienced man. I did not give him details on what to do. No. Perfect. Now, when you were 23 or 5 years, did you have any experience in drug interdiction or drug arrest or anything to do with drugs? Yes. So when you you were a cop for 23 years and somebody told you they were selling heroin in a store, what would you do? It would depend on the circumstances. And in this circumstance, we did nothing.

That's not correct. We sent in a guy to buy some leafy green substance. This characterizes the Do you know how long he was in there? I do not. You think it was on 5 hours? I'm trying to testify that he doesn't know. Let me ask you this. From the time you sent him there till he reported back, do you know how long that was? Well, it was days or weeks. I don't remember. We we talked and at some point he went and got back with me later.

Okay. Okay. That's that's a great answer. Thank you. So, um I have a few questions with you about that. Okay. So you yourself or no officers that had anything to do with Ashlin City went in and bought anything? Is that correct? That's correct. And um was public safety a concern of yours?

Public safety is a concern of mine. Yes. So you felt that Mary Jane's place was a threat to public safety? There's certainly suspicion that it was. Yes.

And then from the time that you first had suspicions that it was a threat to public safety till days or weeks or it didn't seem like there was any hurry. How long was it before your undercover guy brought you a baggie that purported to be illegal marijuana? Well, this anonymous tip was on March the 9th, 2025. And let's see. And he went in there on September the 5th of

2025, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, 6 months. Yes. You were concerned about mushrooms and opiates and six months later you sent a guy in there. Had, that's your testimony. Had I been intensely concerned, it would not have taken six months? No. But I was mildly concerned. Did you believe the report? Which report? The one that said they were selling opiates and mushrooms. I believed it. You're asking me to speculate now. Yeah. You're a policeman. I I believed it to the extent that there was something going on over there, but whether it was as serious as what the anonymous complaint alleged, I just have no idea.

Okay. And then when you did send the guy in there, did he find any evidence of selling anything except for a green leafy substance? You're again asking me to testify to what? Did he turn anything into you besides a green leafy substance? No, he did not. Okay. Um, do you know yourself whether he actually bought that in that store? No, I have to trust him. I have to trust his statement. And then when when he gave it to you, it was in uh Does this look familiar? I approach please. This at exhibit three. It it could be. I can't remember. What was it? Marked in any way.

The actual the actual item is Yes. But no, I mean, does the baggie marked? No. If you're talking this photo, that square right there. No, there's no Okay. And have you ever seen any of the products that are sold out of Mary Jane's place? I've seen that one and then two others. Yes. And I'd note for everybody, this is a some sort of plastic baggie. Okay. And we'll show later and and he'll testify. That's not how they sell things there. That's not how these guys sell things. Okay. So the the point is questionable there if that was actually bought.

Are you got a question or I will yes I do I do have question mark at the end of you're done testifying there. There is no I don't think I was testifying there. Well okay so let me ask you. So you saw that baggie and that was brought directly to you from the undercover. I I can't say under oath that that is a photo of what I saw but it is similar. That that certainly could be. Yes. Okay. I can go get the actual item for you if you'd like. But but we had a time for that. I can't promise that. Doesn't do us much good if we don't have it. But if you had it, we'd love to see it. I can go get it if you want. Probably allowed to do that. Yeah.

I just kept promising to test the photo. I move that the council stand or the board of alderman stand in recess till 8:30 this day to allow Chief Young to retrieve the evidence.

Second. Yeah. See think early morning meeting

no matter what time. I'm sure I'll be up before when my baby wakes up and starts back. This one already wakes up at Two anonymous. How many people are anonymous? Rose.

return back into our recess is over. We're back into open session. I just want to remind both attorneys to address your questions to the panel, not to each other. Okay, no problem, sir. Um, okay. Hey, what what we're trying to establish here is what the heck's the deal with this evidence. As we all know, if we're going to say that somebody sold something somewhere, objection. Well, this is not the time speeches. This is the time to ask questions. I don't think they need catching up. We'll be fine. You got closing statement thoughts. Uhhuh. Yeah, I do. Thanks, sir. Appreciate you.

Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Did you find it? Yeah. Awesome. Let's take a look. Wait, now that's all sealed up. Mhm. Okay. Maybe explain that to us as we go along.

What is that? Is that a question? When you said maybe explain that to us, is that a question? No, we'll explain as we go along. I'm curious of how this is all working out. It's been sealed by me on November 20, 2025. This is the bag that was taken to I got from Deputy Wilson. And this is actually the first time I've seen it because it was in a sealed bag when I got it from Wilson and I delivered it to the lab. They hand it back to me in a bag and I put it in our but it's this the first time I've actually laid eyes on.

So explain to me if you would explain to us if you would how this came to be in your possession. Sergeant Wilson from the Boon County Sheriff's Department handed it to me. And that purports to be that. I never purported it to be that. I don't know who purported it to be that. I just didn't I don't know. That's not my photo. I don't know. Okay. I'd like to point out that exhibit three, the chief doesn't seem to recognize that picture or the container it's in. and he says that this indeed is the one that was brought to you from the undercover.

Mr. Mayor, I'd like permission to swear Mr. Feifer in. If he's going to testify, I'd like to have him under oath. I would gladly go under oath. I would I would have I you know what the truth is as a as an attorney and he should know this. I think we're under oath anytime we speak to a to a tribunal. Correct. particularly a court and particularly a quasi judicial one and I don't think I in fact I think that's your hunter this is question this is this is cross-examination that's that's a little bit too far right there

calm down let me speak this is time for cross-examination he keeps repeatedly stopping his cross-examination and turning to the board and testifying he testified that this is probably a plastic bag he's testifying now about we can all agree on this or that. He can't do that. You sit down. I think the board is capable of understanding what's evidence and what isn't. I'd move that the board sustain Mr. Nicholas's objection. The council is testifying to some extent.

Okay. So, second I Okay, let's back up. Have you ever seen this picture before? Is that the photo that's on the lab report? It's exhibit three. I don't want to testify. It's exhibit three. Have you ever seen it? Well, you've showed me that photo before. Yes. That's the only time you've seen it when I showed it to you. Hold on. I have a color photo from the lab report right there. And that does look similar. That could be the a copy of this color photograph.

It could be. It could be heroin. It could be mushrooms. Could be oregano. If you're asking me to say that this color photo that that is the precise black and white photocopy of this color photo, I can't say that. It sure looks like it could. This is the photo that your undercover testified that he gave to you that he bought at the store and gave to you. I can't speak to what he testified that was not in the record. So the record will show that you don't recognize that picture until today. If that is a Are you saying that's this picture? I'm not saying it's anything. I'm saying this is exhibit three. I'm saying this is a photo taken by the lab. We'll get to the lab. We'll get to the lab.

Okay. But for now, we're going to stick, if we could, okay, with the photo that has been purported to be what the undercover operative bought at Mary James and gave at some roundabout thing, which we're going to get to to you, but you say you don't recognize it. Um, again, I'm a simple guy. What's the current question? Do you recognize that before today? Do you recognize this as the as the stuff that the undercover operative gave to you purportedly bought at Mary James? Tonight is the first night I've seen this substance because it was in a sealed envelope throughout.

Okay, good enough. Okay, so at some point the baggie there was brought to you, correct? Yes. And it was brought to you by Sergeant Dave Wilson, Boone County Sheriff's Department. Okay. The guy that was the undercover operative for Yes. Okay. So, he delivered that to you? Yes. Okay. Are you familiar with This is exhibit four. Are you familiar with this form? Yes, I signed that form. That's a copy of the form I signed.

Now, if if you'll see up here, does does that say anything there? released by a Wilson comm. Okay. That looks like it was typed. Yes. Did you type that? No. Did you have that typed at your direction? No. Do you know who typed that? No. Do you know that DL Wilson delivered you anything? Yes. Okay. When DL Wilson delivered it, um, did you did he did he sign it anywhere? Doesn't look like it. Is there a form for the guy to sign it? Is there a spot down there?

I was the person receiving it, so I'm the one that signed it. This was his receipt, so he could attest that he gave it to me. Okay. So, it's your testimony day that he's not required to sign anything. Not that I'm aware of. Not. Okay. Certainly not this one that says owner, witness, or release officer. Were you the release officer? No, I was the accepting officer. Who is the release officer? That would be Sergeant Dave Wilson. And he didn't sign that there. Not on that one. No.

Okay. This is exhibit four. I'd note that the purported evidence brought and given to him and was not signed for by anybody. He did, but not the where the form says to fill it out. Was not signed for. Okay. So, you get that. Then what happens? What do you do with that? You said that's the first time you've even seen that. It It's very common for evidence to be packaged. And well, let's not worry about what's common. Let's just worry about what you did. Well, to preserve evidence, there was no need for me to open it. Okay.

And so, I've never seen it. And yes, I took it kept it secure in my possession until it's placed in our secure evidence room. And then at some point, I removed it out of there and took it to the lab in F. Okay. So, that was purportedly bought at Mary James. Yes. You believed your informant? I believe him. Yes. Okay. He gave it to you. Do you know? Do you happen to know how much that cost? I think his report. It's in his report. Hang on. I'll read it. I

think it's in his report. $50. That's what he wrote in his report. Did you reimburse him for that? No. Do you know if he got reimbured for that? I do not. I would assume. No, I can't. I don't know. All right. I can make assumptions. All right. So, you then at some point, how come you waited until whenever you waited to go to that test? What was the hold out?

Well, because at the time I wasn't sure what to do with it in terms of it's not criminal matter at that point. Right. So the highway patrol lab wouldn't is not going to look at it for us. And I didn't know the legalities of me taking what I believe to be an illegal substance and leaving it in the lab. And so until we were ultimately told that Innovation was a licensed lab by the state that was authorized to take custody of that material. So and so once I got once I was explained that and then when I called them and we made we basically made an appointment and I took it up to Who explained that all to you guys? Todd Smith who was our attorney at the time. Who? Todd Smith. And Todd Smith, did did he consider that to be illegal or was he the one that raised the gray area?

Objection. First of all, it invades the turn of client privilege. Second of all, Mr. Smith thought whether it was legal. The bill has no relevance. I'll withdraw. Thank you. Did did you ever seek any uh advice from the city attorney about the legality of these new marijuana shops that were selling selling leafy green substances with some sort of THC label? Had you ever asked him what his opinion was on it? I would object again. That's clearly an invasion of the attorney client privilege

as a police chief entrusted with enforcing the law. You believed it to be a legal gray area? No. Okay. Who what where did you get the idea that it was a legal gray area? What was a legal gray area? The substance that you kept in your in your safe for months. The only gray area that I had was where I could take it for testing. Where I could legally take it for testing. That that I believed all along that the selling of it and the substance was illegal. I didn't know where I could legally um hand it over to someone else for testing. Okay. So, you believed it was illegal?

Yes. And you had a guy from Boone County Sheriff's Department do a controlled buy of sorts. One of the worst I've ever seen. But a controlled buy of sorts. Correct. Yes. Okay. So, if you believed it was illegal, I'm so confused. Like why wouldn't you have done something? I'm going to just being asked an answer. What was the answer? I can tell you the answer that he can we let him answer. Well, no, because you've already asked.

I don't remember. Do you guys remember his answer of why he didn't arrest somebody for what they thought he thought was illegal as a police chief? I missed that answer. It was a record that the board is nodding their heads. Yes, they all know what the answer was. What was the answer? I didn't get it. I'm not testifying. Okay. What was the answer? We made a strategic decision to move slowly on this and wait. And quite frankly, we did not have a desire to bring criminal charges on people. The desire was to have people obey city ordinance. Perfect.

So that was why why this all kind of moved slow. Perfect. in in your experience and and your job as as chief, I'm assuming you were chief most of the time. I didn't catch when you first started. Did did you have any other reason to believe that Mary James was violating any city ordinances? Yes. The sale of what you believed was illegal marijuana. Yes. Correct. Um at Let me ask you this. Um, at any time did the owner of Mary Jane's attempt to speak with you? Yes.

And what was he there to speak with you about if you know? Uh, it was after he was served with the notice of request to surrender the business license and he came to the PD lobby to try to convince me. I guess I'm guessing that that they weren't doing anything wrong. So, it's your testimony that he came to you to try to speak with you after he got his notice of revocation? Yes. Okay. Um, did he did have have you done any research or anything on your own about the THCA, THC, the the loophole, the hemp? Do you know anything about that? No.

Well, when he came to speak with you, he brought you all sorts of materials, didn't he? Yes. Did you look at him? No. Were you curious? No. So, you've been a police officer for 20 whatever many years. You ever arrest somebody for selling marijuana? Yes. How many people? Uh, more than I can even Are you a fan of marijuana? You want my opinion? Yeah. Personal things like that? Personal opinion? Yes, please. I'm not going to share that with you. Do you smoke marijuana? No. Have you ever smoked marijuana? No. Have you ever smoked THC? No. Have you ever done CBD oil? No. Have you ever taken CBD gummy? No.

You've never consumed cannabis in any form. Correct. Where when you heard that Missouri was was setting up a system to make it legal of marijuana. What did you think about that? Objection. His personal opinions. Mr. Chief of police. I'm curious of what he thought because I think it influenced him signing in cover agency. I took an oath here to uphold city ordinance. Okay. And no part of that oath was was my opinion a part of the deal. I'm just supposed to That's a great answer and I appreciate that. I would move that the board sustain Mr. Nicholas's objection. I'm sorry. I would move that the board sustain Mr. Nicholas's objection to relevance.

Okay. Well, I liked his answer. That seemed like an honest one. So, um, all in favor? I Okay, so you and I and and frankly that's fine, but you made no attempt to to learn anything about anything to do with the legality or the illegality of the cannabis product that was being sold in your town. My understanding was that the fact that there was any sort of cannabis product being sold over there made it in violation of city ordinance and of the business license. And I that was all that mattered to me.

Perfect. Um let me ask you this. Are you aware of any other businesses in Ashland that that may sell similar products? Objection relevance. Yes. Whether or not other people have committed a crime is not you said overruled. I thought I move that we sustain Mr. objection as to relevance. Okay. Um all in favor I

So so as you go through and enforce the codes and the ordinances Okay. Would selling cannabis without a license as a police officer, is that a violation of the code and ordinance? I believe it is. Yes. Okay. And so if there were other businesses that that did that, you would equally want them shut down. Yes. Okay. And have one one quick one. Have you made any attempt to infiltrate any undercover into any of the other businesses that might be selling similar products? This is the only one we've had to report that was different.

Are you aware that other businesses sell similar products? This is the only one that we've had reported. Do you live in Ashlin? No. Okay. Do you shop in Ashley? I'll ask you one more time. Are you aware that other places besides Mary Chains might sell cannabis based products? No. Never seen them. Correct. Okay. Good enough. Okay. Now, so you received that, you put it in the baggie. Then what did you do? No, it was in the baggie. It was in that baggie. Then what did you do? I was going to say so in this envelope. The baggage really look different. Everything was in this envelope.

Okay. Certainly looks different. But so you got that and then you kept it for several months. And then what did you do? Some amount of time. It might not been several months. It seemed like it was more than that. But hang on. I've got it written down here. I got it from uh Sergeant Wilson gave it to me on October 30. On November 11, 2025, it was taken to Innovation to the Lab. Okay. And then when you took it to Innovation, um did you get a receipt? Mhm.

Um that evidence here. So, do you have that receipt? Yes. right here.

If I may, is that your signature there? Yes, sir. Do you write this stuff? Yes, sir. Well, some of it you by the hand. It's similar to my scroll also. So, city of Ashland is the cultivator name. No, says cultivator. Well, it's not the cultivator. That's what the lab That's the form the lab used. I just need a receipt that they had received it from me. Well, I I think when we're trying to take someone's business license, it might be a little more important that we just get some random receipt. But I take your point. Um, so City of Ashland's the cultivator, 101 West Broadway. What's that?

That's this address. That's a city hall. I guess um I guess I'd ask at this point, was were the council members or anybody else in involved in your little kind of clandestine undercover operation out of Colombia? I'm going to object to the characterization of it as a little clandestine operation. That is grossly appropriate. Well, let me ask. Okay. The board sustain the object. Just state it. Um, okay. So, all I

I'll withdraw. That's fine. Just give me one of those and I'll ask it in a different way. So, he didn't have any recording equipment. He didn't have any controlled things that typically go along with the control by. Is that correct? Didn't we testify that earlier? I don't know who was testified to. Okay. Do you know? Okay. When you sent your undercover operative in, have you done criminal controlled buys before? Yes. Okay. And was this akin to a criminal control by? It was akin to it, but it was not the same because I felt like all along we were dealing with a civil proceeding, not

How was it different? I felt like the level of proof is much lower because I felt like we were dealing with a civil proceeding and not a criminal. That's why we didn't have recording equipment. I think he tried to record it, but it again I'm testifying for Sergeant Wilson now. I believe he did try to record it and it didn't function. We we just want the truth. You're the guy running the show. He said he tried to and it didn't work. Okay. So according to him, did he mark the money? No idea. As far as you know, did he did he have backup? Well, and marking the money would only be worthwhile if we were doing a by bust where we expected to recover. We're not expecting to recover.

Even if you weren't doing a buy bust, wouldn't you want to identify who sold it to him? I'm thinking at the time was that and again you're asking me to testify to what Sergeant Wilson told me. No, I'm asking you as as the head of this operation to to testify what you know. Okay. Well, what I know is that Sergeant Wilson told me that there was no possible way for anyone to not know what was going on and so anyone on the premises to not know what was going on. And so again, our focus was on the business license access aspect of this, not trying to put people in jail.

And what exactly was going on? Open marijuana sales in the inside the building. Open green leafy substances. Suspected marijuana sales. Correct. Suspected. You didn't know they were marijuana, do you? No. And you don't know the difference between THC, THCA, Delta 9, or a bail of hay, do you? Yes, I do. A bail A does not have T. Besides the BA, you know the rest? No. None about it? No. Okay. No. Haven't needed to, sir. Do you know that there's a raging controversy in the in the country about this? Have you heard? No.

Okay. Um All right. So, you dropped that off for testing. Okay. And I I'll be quick. Do you know the how they tested it? No. Do you know who tested it? I believe it was Phil Sharp. Is he here today? Yes. Oh, perfect. Another witness that we didn't know about. Once again, um, so after it was tested, you got it back somehow. I went up there and drove up there and got Yeah.

Okay. on the 20th of November and it was in the same bag that you gave it to him in. Yeah. Yeah. I never again I never didn't see it. They put it back in this envelope. So it looked like the same baggie to you. I'm sorry. I never saw the plastic until tonight. It was in this. You never saw it even when the undercover guy got brought it to you? No, he didn't bring it to me. He took it to the sheriff's department and I got it back from him later.

How come he did that? because I don't know talk to him. There was there was never an agreement that he was going to come see me directly after they comply. Again, we were not doing this as a um it would be very common for a for an informant to immediately have to come out and contact law enforcement officer. But for a law enforcement officer making the buy, he doesn't have to come out and see. If you thought you were looking for a crime, you would have done it different. Not necessarily. If there's a police officer making the buy, he doesn't have to come out and hand me the evidence immediately.

No, no. I'm saying if you would have suspected that this was a crime, you wouldn't have have been lax and developed it as a civil matter. I did suspect it was a crime, but we were dealing with it as a civil matter. Again, almost just we just did not have the uh we're working under an ass that we need to put people in jail. We were just trying to enforce the ordinance on the business. All right. And then did you did you consult with the city attorney in coming up with that conclusion? Yes. So that was his conclusion as well. Objection attorney client privilege saying move that board sustain the

he said that he formed an opinion. He formed that opinion from the city attorney. the city attorney. Was the city attorney acting as your personal attorney? No, sir. Well, how's our attorney client privilege if the if the city attorney was acting on behalf of the city giving advice to the police chief that this stuff isn't illegal? Why isn't that relevant or whatever? I mean, I'm confusing. So many reasons. First,

very confusing. But I I can see why you're confused. Um the first of all, it's hearsay. Whatever the city attorney said is hearsay. Second of all, it is attorney client privilege because the attorney represents the city and the employees of the city and the officers of the city and he gives them legal advice. Which you specifically asked this witness, did the city attorney give you legal advice? I would move that the board sustain the objection. Okay. So, the Okay, let me ask you a different way. Yes, sir.

You formed the opinion, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, this was fuzzy or a gray area or whatever, that you were going to do it as a civil matter. No, I felt like it was a very clear-cut civil matter. Okay. Clear-cut civil matter. Yeah. Okay. And you thought it was a clear-cut criminal matter as well, right? You testified to that earlier. Yeah. Okay. So, did any conversations that or advisement that you might have gotten from the city attorney help shape either of those views? No.

Okay, good enough. Okay. Did you take this to the highway patrol? That alleged sample that you got from Mr. Wilson? No. Um, why not? Two reasons. One, that could take months. And secondly, since we were not planning on filing criminal charges, I don't believe they would have tested it for us. Again, you weren't planning on filing criminal charges. Correct. For something that you personally believed was illegal. Yes.

Okay. Um, wouldn't it be normal on a controlled substance to to take it to uh either the uh a lab at the highway patrol? Isn't that where they do most of your testing in your 23 years as a cop for things we're making uh criminal allegations on? Yes. Okay. Um, how come you decided to take him to this private facility? That was the one we were told that could legally and properly test it. Who's we? The city. The city was told we could take it there at that point. Was a city attorney involved in that decision?

He's the one that told me the lab was legal a legal place to take and have tested. Okay. So, did he authorize money for that? No, he does not authorize money. Who paid for it? City paid for it. Did the city council authorize this thing? No, it was an amount of money that we had the discretion to how much exactly. Hang on. See if I don't know if I have the invoice or not. I don't think I have the invoice with me, but certainly it's it was an amount of money that was under the threshold that either I or the uh city administrator had the discretion to. What is that threshold?

I don't even know. I try to stay far away from it. I try to stay well under is So you don't know what the threshold is? It's a lot more than what we paid these folks. Five grand or something. Is that right? Yeah. I try to stay well under that. Okay. So it's five grand, you think? No. Well, I I can't say for sure. Again, when I start getting in that kind of money, I get the details. What kind of money don't you worry about? How much was that testing? I I don't know how much this testing was. I can the invoice. I can go get it off my email if you would like. I've got it have been better if you brought it. I guess I be honest with you, I didn't think that the cost of the lab testing would be a a factor. So, I apologize for that. You don't have to apologize for me. It's not my money. These guys is

um Okay. So, you decided to take it to a private facility after consulting with the city attorney? Yes. And was the city attorney involved or in on board with with your determination that this was merely a civil matter? My object again is being clearly attorney client privilege. Again, my objection that that would be far from attorney client privilege what the what the policy of the city of Ashland is about their chief enforcing different laws or or not different laws. That's not attorney client privilege.

Well, I I will insert a second objection which is relevance. Doesn't really matter what the city attorney thought the chief should do. The question is what did the chief do? The city attorney's opinion on the whole subject is irrelevant and hearsay. I as a city attorney is the guy that interprets the law. I'm supposing you're not are you a lawyer, sir? No, sir. Okay. You weren't working here at that time. Were you? I was. Did Were you involved in this? I didn't directly I'm not testifying. Can I Can he testify? I would move.

I would like to call him as a witness. I would move that the board sustain the objection as to attorney client privilege because this question seeks to elicit details of the ex of that particular case and the legal opinion formed on that case. I would like to talk to call Mr. Nicholas to see as he's now said that he was involved in these decisions. I'd like to know what he had to to say about this because anything that I have to say is either going to be attorney client privilege or it's going to be irrelevant. My feelings on what the law should be or how the city should act are not relevant to this proceeding.

That's your opinion that the city attorney doesn't have anything to do with the the laws that the city Okay. I'll I'll object. I'll let that stand on the record. And we'll take that up as I said it, not as he badly misquoted it. I don't know if Mr. Fifer has a hearing problem. I do actually. That would explain a lot. I think I believe my motion is still pending to sustain the objection as to attorney client privilege question. Perfect. So second all I

Okay. So, okay. So, we went through and you had the packaging and the evidence. So, that was the exact way it was delivered to you. You didn't open that thing up. You took it to the lab. You handed it off and that was it? Yes, sir. You don't know anything about the testing? None of it? No. Okay. And then did you choose choose that lab? Were you the one that did or that was the city attorney? Yeah. The city attorney told us it was a legal place to take it. This city attorney or the other one? Yeah. All right.

We should probably I want to check to myself, but if the city attorney told him that and he's able to testify what the city attorney told him, you ask him what the city attorney told him. You can't object question that you asked. That's enough. That's enough. What would this This is supposed to direct object. He is making a mockery of this tribunal by pulling these silly stunts. We're just trying to get to the truth. Honestly,

he's not talking about the truth. He's not talking about what's happened. He's talking about things that are irrelevant. What the city attorney said, what other people did, things that have nothing to do with this case. He is attempting to distract this tribunal by bringing up irrelevant evidence and I would say by personal attacks against me. My answer to that would be that's like your opinion man. I'm no more outburst for you two. More silver. Yes sir. you sorry I said no more outburst no more

civil I I agree I think the record will show that who starts these things okay so okay so could you inspect the contents of of that bag baggie for me you can go ahead and open it up and root around in it and smell it taste So you can take it out of that one. You didn't put it in that one, did you? Do I have to take it out of I think his answer was he would not do that. There's no need for me to do that.

Was it in this baggie or the one with the green around it? Okay. I reject that because he asked and answered. He has said repeatedly that he never saw it before tonight. He was always in the brown envelope. So when it was delivered from the from the undercover, it was this baggie and the other one. Both baggies. This is what I was handed. Sir, sealed up. Perfect. Perfect. Um and you say that I have a motion on the table.

Have a motion on the table. So I move that we sustain Mr. Nicholas's objection that it's been asked and answered because the chief has testified multiple times that he received the evidence in I withdraw that question. Um he was and then that was on November 11th is when you took that in to be tested. Correct. Yes, sir. All right. And then you got it in October 30th. It been delivered to me from Sergeant Wilson on October 30. Yes, sir. All right. And then do you know what day he he allegedly bought that?

Uh his report says September 5, 2025. All right. All right. Um, and then you testified that you took that to a Jennifer at the lab. Yes, sir. And you asked her to test for quote THC contact. I believe that's correct. Did you give her any other instructions?

No. They know more about it than I do. Okay, that's that that is true. And um and then how was it released to you? You went and picked it up at the lab. Yes. And it was in that that baggie that you say? Uh it was back in the brown envelope. So presumably they'd had to take that out some point to test it. I would assume so. And then you didn't weigh that before or after? Okay. All righty. I don't think Hold on one second. Let me check my assistant.

No further questions. Thank you, sir. I have no further questions.

Yeah, I'm done. Thank you. I need I need my receipt back from them also. There it is. Let me make that one quick. I have one more question. I'm sorry. Do you know if that was weighed at any time the the before it went into evidence? No, no, I have no idea. I did not weigh it. Okay. Thank you, sir. And here's There you go. Thank you. Sorry. Yours, please.

Okay, please call Bill. Sorry. You swear that the testimony you will give today is the truth. The whole truth and nothing but the truth I

can please your name for the court. Sorry. Spell that. P H I L I T S A R Fs. Mr. Sar, uh, can you tell me how you're employed? I work at Innovation Hero Testing Services LLC as the lab manager. And, uh, what do you what does that involve? So as lab manager I'm in charge of learning laboratory drinking innovation aging is one of the handful of licensed labs that perform testing for the state.

And can you tell me about your education? I got a bachelor's degree in chemistry and environmental science from the University of Debuke. And then I worked I've been about 30 years now in analytical chemistry. What is analytical? Analytical chemistry. Sure. Uh basically it's analyzing substances to determine what what they're made up of. Okay. So, for example, would that involve if you were given a plant substance that you could tell what kind of chemicals were in that? Um, if I had the method to do formul

Okay, so you need lab equipment to do that. What kind of lab equipment do you use just in general? Uh it depends on the testing but uh we use high performance liquid chromatography, gas chromatography uh conductively coupled uh plasma uh with mass spectroscopy then balances. Okay. And how long have you been in this field? Almost 30 years. And uh currently you work for uh innovative innovation laboratories. That's correct. And u they is it correct? They are licensed by the state of Missouri to test marijuana.

Yes, we are license number five.

Okay. And that would involve licensed growers of marijuana bringing that product into you into the lab. And then you would perform tests on it uh to determine what uh we perform uh the potency testing to determine how much canabonoids are in the product as well as doing um safety. So to protect the users such as metals, residual solvents, pesticides, microtoxins, um microbial activity which would be fungus and bacteria. Fungus, that's kind of gross.

Uh so is there a standard accepted procedure in your industry for making those determinations? There are several different methods. Um most of them um we all have our own validated methods that we have to adhere to and we are also uh third party audited by um for it's called ISO 1785. ISO is the international organization of standardization.

Okay. So when you say uh validated procedures, can you explain that to me?

Sure. Um we look at testing the product. Uh we show that we can uh without u with minimal uncertainty determine that what the amount is of the product that there's um no potential for uh something to give a false positive. Uh make sure there's no carryover between samples. blanks our blank um samples that have material in it have recovery and then we test those at different levels to show if it was at level A we can get back 100% of what we put in there level B is a different and we tested over wide range to show we can do that so specifically testing for the various forms of THC is there a standard procedure for doing that.

Yes, we have a standing procedure. What is that procedure? Uh for ours, it's called uh SOP uh which is standing operating procedure uh P245. And what does that involve? Assuming assuming for the moment that I know nothing about chemistry and that the board knows only a little bit more than I know, explain how you make those kinds of tests. Sure. Um, so we weigh out, um, I'll use flour as an example. We get it in, uh, we weigh out a certain amount. Uh, for flour, it's usually6 grams. Can I stop you for just a second? You're saying flour. You're talking about marijuana flour.

Marijana flour. Okay.

There's we we have three different kind of ways we handle stuff. One is uh, we call it flour, um, plant material. So that would be also be pre-ruules in that. Um we also do edibles and infused products and then there are oils, concentrates, grapes, extracts, that sort of thing. Um so we would weigh out a known amount in triplicate. Um we would extract it with a um with a solvent. Um and that depends on the matrix what we would use. Flour would be methanol. Um we bring that to a specific volume so we know how much is in there and then we analyze it on in this case a it's called an HLC high performance liquid chromatography. uh we analyze that against known amounts so that if there is an amount in there it's analyzed against that certified reference material and then we can say this how much is is there okay so um when you talk about high performance uh chromatography is that the same as the gas chromatography that you were talking about earlier

different liquid Yes. I see. Okay. Um and when you're doing those tests, are there procedures that you follow to make sure that the sample has not been contaminated? Yes. What are those procedures?

So that's as part of our uh standard operating procedure uh we perform um we have blanks in each run to show that there's no carryover or nothing introduced during the testing. uh we'll take a sample of the material itself, whatever we've extracted, and then we'll put more on top of it to show that we can get that out as well. So that if we say there's five in it and we add four to that, then we should get nine.

So we perform that as well. every so everything has a a known as well that doesn't have a matrix in it so that we have to maintain recovery of that as as well. So when you do a test uh can you say to a degree of certainty that the results of that test are accurate? Yes. And what about uh how do you protect against somebody having contaminated that uh sample before you got it? Okay. So I can only I can only do when it hits our door.

I understand. So when it comes into your door, what is the process that your company follows to keep make sure it hasn't been make sure it's not subsequently contaminated? I'll try not to use too many acronyms. Um we have a laboratory information management system. It's called limbs. So everything comes into um basically comes in the door. It gets assigned a specific lab number. Uh so that way we have no idea really who the client is or anything when we're working on that. It's just this is number um XYZ. So that's to eliminate any kind of bias.

That's correct. Okay. And then uh so that comes in, it gets it's got its own pouch that it's in. it's sealed and then it has that number put on the outside so that um and then it's set into a certain bin that's um maintained so that when I want to or when we're ready to analyze a sample I let our inventory manager know give me sample XYZ it's taken out brought to the laboratory given to us we perform perform the testing. We indicate how much inventory we've used and then we turn it back into our inventory manager and that's all tracked through our uh limb system as well as the uh metric system which is the seed to sale attributes. Do you remember testing this particular sample?

Uh the one that you received from uh Ashland in November of 2025.

Okay, I'm going to show you. This is what's been marked as exhibit six. This particular copy is a bit hard to read.

We didn't object to this. We never received this. I don't believe we did. That was one of the Oh, this is the one we objected. We received it. Super light. Did we even receive this one? Yes. Okay. So, this is the note. Uh, yes. This was recealed. Received and received.

I'd move that the board over the objection. Second. All do you recall uh testing this particular? Yes. And do you recall uh what I mean I understand you say that you put it in a pouch. So no it was received in a sealed package. Okay.

Uh it was boy I was trying to remember. It was a package inside or sorry it was a ziplo a plastic bag inside another plastic bag inside a sealed manila. Okay. Recall if it had a big evidence sticker on it, it had evidence on it. Pretty sure if I had my the actual raw data for sure because I didn't. Okay. That would be something you keep track of. Yes. And the purpose of keeping track of that is make sure that two samples aren't mixed up.

That's correct. So, did you perform the tests on this sample? Yes. And did you develop results from those tests? Yes. And are you confident to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty that the results that you got are accurate?

Yes. Now, uh, looking at page two of this, uh, it lists a number of the substances that you found. And uh particularly uh there's one marked at the very top under now analy is that the word analyte

okay and uh that's I guess just a fancy term for what we found. Uh okay so under the first line under analyte it says uh THC and that would be regular THC not THCA. The first one is the neutral form delta 9 THC. Okay. And that shows that the percentage of delta 9 THC that was found in that sample was what? 2.7 that be 2.7%

okay and that was a uh you all did did dry testing on that or I guess the opposite is wet testing. You're not sure. So, uh to baseline all plant material, it's done on a dry weight basis. So, that way, um something that's 12% water and something with 9% water, you can correct for that so that everything is reported the same way. So, this one was Yes, I did moisture, which is this one was a dry test. What's referred to as a dry test? Well, or dry weight, I guess. Direct weight or dry%.

Okay, that's correct. And if I'm reading this right, the you found 7.99% moisture. That's correct. Okay. So, you found 2.7% of THC radioc delta 9. You also found delta 8 THC or THCA. Is that correct? No. No. Uh that's delta 9 THCA. Okay. An acid form of the neutral THC. Okay. And how much of that did you find? Uh 22.1.

Right. So um I I I have heard that THCA is uh does not become psychoactive for one of a better term until it's heated. Is that correct? Um, I'm the little chemist. I You don't know. That's okay. That's That's I can only ask you what So that's that's pretty much what happens, but I that's not my expertise. Okay. So you found that the T the THC9 sorry THCA delta 9 you found 22.1%.

That's correct. And on the delta 8 THC, how much of that did you find? Uh delta 8 there was an undetected above our um li it's called limit of quantitation which is the column over on the right. Can you explain to me what that means? That just means how much we're constant we're able to see and record. Okay. So no no delta 8 in this at all that we could detect.

Okay. Um now delta A is sometimes referred to as hemp or it's derived from hemp. Um it can be but again that gets into the chemistry of canabon that I'm not an expert on. Okay. So based on your training and experience, do you know what the where how do we distinguish hemp from marijuana?

Uh it would be.3% delta 9 THC. So if it has more than.3% delta 9 THC, it's marijuana. It's not hemp. cannot be industrial. That's the scientific state. That's the rule. Okay. And did this particular sample have more than.3% delta 9 THC? Yes. So in your opinion to a degree of scientific certainty, was this marijuana?

Yes. Okay. So, marijuana cans, can the amount of delta 9 THC vary over time once it's been harvested? It can uh what would cause it to change

would be improper storage. Uh it's usually uh high temperature would be needed or time. So assuming high temperature and time would have what effect would they make the delta 9 THC go up or go down? It would transition THCA into THC. Okay. THC AA would start becoming THAC and which then becomes CB. Okay.

And then you Yeah. So how fast does that process happen? So similar to this sample had sat around for six months. Could that account for the high level of delta 9 THC? versus THCA. Yes. Um there would be slight conversion. I don't know what the conversion would be without testing. You think it would be slight not like a whole percent would be like fraction.

You don't. Okay. Fair. You know what? And then after you did the test, uh, you produced this certificate of analysis. It's marked as exhibit C. Sorry, exhibit six. And you electronically signed your name to it. Oh, no, you did not. No, that's our QA manager. Okay. And Jennifer Vanderelick. Yes. Do you recognize her signature? Yes. That's her electronic signature. Um,

so in in this industry, the quality assurance manager finds out and gives the gives the final approval representing what that procedures have been followed correctly. Procedures have been followed. It has been audited. The numbers Have you ever made a mistake in one of these? Yes. Where you got it wrong? Yes. How do you know you didn't make a mistake in this one? Uh because the uh QC that was involved with it. Um QC quality control. Quality control that I had mentioned before passed in this case.

Okay. So if you had made a mistake, the quality control process would have caught that mistake. That's the purpose of the volume. And that didn't happen in this case. It did not. And you feel confident that the the real level of THC delta 9 is this 2.7% that you've shown in your report. Yes. The product received.

I don't think I have any other questions for this mix. I have a few. Before we go across, I'd make a motion that we take a recess for five minutes. It's one hour in a hot car to fully decar question. with Scott. You just ask

your Most of my time I never went to any of his concerts. I've never like this out once a year. I showed you the package. James

I think it's interesting basis except all of them except their wisdom. No, no. PH. Right.

still be here. I didn't I didn't do this. Looks like a weird size. in the bottom drawer.

You want to try? on camera. I can get you on camera.

Not quite. But like I said, I'm not too worried about it. Pushing the stuff all around. My camera I think he's going to come back. Let's do it. And that's den in the church.

Recess is over. I can open session. All right. Mr. Nichols, Mr. I believe I don't have any further questions for this. Mr. Fifer, do you have any questions? Yes, sir. Thank you. Thanks, sir. I didn't catch your name. Um, Phil. Phil, nice to meet you. Um, I just had a couple really quick questions. Um, did did you guys get a copy of this? Is it Is it just mine that I feel like I need prescription glasses? Can you guys read anything on that? Oh, I can. I've got prescription glasses. Is that busted to you? Okay. Super fun.

You should have a better Yeah, super fuzzy. Well, I think I think you can. Well, maybe. Well, we'll see if they can. Okay. How are you today? You need a better Okay, I'll be super quick. Okay. Number one is you received a sample and do you know who brought it in? Uh, specifically I did not see who Okay. Um, and you don't know who brought it in. You don't know where the sample came from? I know who brought it in, but I did not witness it. It's one of

Okay, good enough. You didn't witness it being brought in, but you've later found out that the chief brought it in. Okay. And then um you don't know anything about its origins before it got brought into you. That's correct. You don't know where it came from, where it was bought, sold, used, anything. You don't have any information about that.

Okay, perfect. Now, um there's an awful lot of lot of awful lot of canaba this and canab of that and tetra this and and all that on this. That's correct. Everybody can see. Well, do you know how many total canabonoids you're testing for? Our uh standard method has 16. How many? 16. 16. Yes.

11. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. Okay. So, did you test for 16 on these? Yeah, there's 16 on the front. There should be 16 in. Oh, 16 on the back. Okay. And then, um, do you know what all these mean? As far as as far as what's a well I can't really read it but all the different Yeah. All the different can have an Are you are you an expert in those? Do you know what they expert on them uh as far as determining them analytically? Yes.

But wait but do you know what they do the effects things like that? Yeah. Okay. Um are you you had testified earlier? Oh wait I had a quick question. Now, some of these that we got from you guys talked about um had pictures. Most of them have had pictures, but I noticed this one doesn't. Yeah, it's probably just the printing. Does yours have a picture? Yeah, I've got a better copy. Oh, can I have that?

Okay. So, when that was brought to you, you said you remembered the the packaging. Could you could you describe that for me real quick? The packaging that it came when it got to you? I provided that. It was a plastic bag inside a plastic bag inside a sealed uh manila envelope. So, not you, but when the girl checked it in, it was sealed and then it was given to you. And it was still sealed. I'm sorry. And it was still sealed. They're still sealed. Yes. And then

I I opened it up and um actually I I believe I took a picture of it sealed um which doesn't go in our Case, but then I uh opened it up into that um way and then took the picture. Hey, this is the good one. Got the picture. You can read all those things. Um let me ask you something. How long have you been doing this? uh long time for innovation four years.

Okay. And then and I'm sorry I couldn't really hear a lot of the stuff. I'm way over there. Okay. So I look at all these different canabonoids and a couple delta 9. One says delta 9 tetra hydro canabonol which says delta 9 THC. And then one of them seemingly says the same delta 9 tetra hydro canabonol. I'm going right under here where this thing is going under there. And it says delta 9 THCA. Um, I look I look at a different one and it says canaba bigger roll CBG and there's CBGA CB NA THC VA. Do you know what THC VA is?

The the scientific name or what? No. What is that? It's a canabonoid. Does it have any uh it's got a THC in it. Does it have a uh intoxicating effect? Uh which one? Well, I was looking at Well, I don't know. Okay. You don't know. And and um the delta H8 THC. You know, do you know about that?

Uh delta 8 is um intoxicating. Delta 8 is inxi. Okay. Um, do you know if if you know do you know if delta 8 is referenced anywhere in the either the federal or the state legalization scheme by which they deem certain things certain levels. Do you know if if T if delta A THC falls under that scheme? Um I do not at this moment.

You don't know? Okay. Do you know what THCV does that fall under that scheme? So just that one. I'll get to it. Okay, we'll go. Do you know if that one does? Same answer. Okay. So, it probably take more of an expert than you to know about to to make any sense of this this whole thing. I mean, it's pretty complicated to me. Would would you would that be a fair assessment that you've been doing this and you're a tester and you're an expert and you don't know how a lot of these fit together? Correct.

So, I'm an analytical chemist and can determine how much of each of those is in Perfect. Perfect. Um, and you'd probably need a different sort of expert to be able to figure out how they all fit together. And and you'd mentioned earlier about uh what did you call it? Decar de what's the word am I looking at? Decaroxilation. You know anything about that? Uh, that happens at high heat. High heat or any heat?

Mostly high heat. If somebody was to tell you that you could get decarboxilation of a sample of THCA going to THC in an hour in a hot car, would that jive with what you would think would be fantastical or does that sound it could happen? Yeah, I wouldn't be able to comment on it. Okay. What how high heat do you think it would need? Um, by definition of what we do in the laboratory would be over 120 degrees at least. So, right about 180.

So, you'd think it'd have to get 180 degrees for THCA to naturally de caroxilate to decarboxilate over to THC. Same answer. I Okay. Not a reactionary chemist.

Good. Good enough. Um I I would re renew my objection to this time to these reports that we've just received or we received them either just now or before. No time for any experts. He's as close to the expert we got and he doesn't know. This guy here is pretty much an expert. And I know there's a guy back there that that was sharing some knowledge with us that seems to be an expert about how the THC A can convert to THC. Do you know anything about um the Hemp Act or the Hemp Law or anything like that? Are you familiar with those things? Farm Bill, the Hemp Act,

just cursory. What's your cursory understanding? that in order for it to be um legally sold as hemp, it has to be below.3%. It's a THC. Perfect. That that is true, by the way. So, let's get into that a second. Um do you know who what agency what regulatory agency USDA would test to see if something is below the.3% to be hemp? Um it would be a approved lab.

Do you know when do you know at what point in the plant growing process that the feds test that? I do not. If I told you it was before harvesting two, three weeks, would that make sense to you? Again, are you aware that the THC keeps rising? You could test it on January 1st and it can be under three. The plant's still growing. It's been tested and you and you test it eight months later. Would would you think that THC could go up while it's growing? Uhuh.

Yes. So, if a federal government test it at a certain period of time and it's under three, are you familiar at all with the way they certify those? I thought you mentioned something earlier. I'm not. If they certified it when it was at three under three 2.7 I'd say. You mean 0.27 27 or whatever whatever the the measurement is that it it continues to go up after that certification is possible not just with heat. Did you know that? I have not.

Okay good enough. Now let's get back to things that you know for sure. Okay. Um I noticed on some of these you said you tested several several things for the chief, right? Uh we have had Okay. And then most a couple of them I noticed it said pretty much the black and white ones, not the fancy one. It said um note tested on an as received basis and not dry weight basis. Yes. Is that true?

I would object to these talking about facts that are not evidence. Those documents have never been introduced or shown to this witness. Well, we I think we'd like to we had these as part of his discovery that we got a day and a half before this and um I would like to introduce this as evidence. This is the Did you recognize that form? That one of your alls? Um it's one of ours. I don't know what's right there. Well, I don't know which one it is. No, but I was saying is that one of your forms? This is one of our forms. Okay. You got a Jennifer whatever signature. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. It's one of our Cas. I'd like to introduce this into evidence if I could. We can mark it. Exhibit A. Exhibit A. Can object relevance. Okay. Perfect. The the the relevance to this document is specifically unlike the one that he did introduce but not the other ones. They were tested, it says, on an as received basis and not a dry weight basis. Okay. So, I'd like to I don't know we stamping them or pass that around. It's right down here. I'm just going to put exhibit A on

my objection. What other what other substances tested that is irrelevant? Well, that was provided as our discovery. I would move that the board sustain the objection as to foundation because there hasn't been a chain of evidence establishing that this was is a test from a Mary Jane.

He ident he identified it. We were provided that as as discovery. I can show you the and I did not email. I didn't introduce it because I don't feel that it's relevant,

but we do feel it's relevant. We'd like to introduce it. Okay. In a second here, this gentleman's going to explain to you why this gentleman doesn't want that introduced. Why we got the fancy colored one that says this was the guy from test it because

it's not the same. Oh, on the exhibit. too. Yeah, that's Yeah, that's a new one. But the exhibit six mark six is different. Yes.

Let me see. Either way, we're talking A at this point. What do you want to do with that one up there? Exhibit A is dated 32. Dated 117 with the exception of this. You don't have a A is dated 32. No, Sam does have a So, this is Mark exhibit A. Our first one. Thank you. That's that's their exhibit is A. Ours is six. Well, we're gonna talk about six here in a minute. Also, wait a minute. Hold on a second. I think Yeah, we were given different copies to what exhibit six is.

Yeah, I think six is all sorts of over the board. I would I would move that we completely exclude exhibit six. I'm given a copy. Excuse me. Uh I'm not talking. Well, I didn't know I didn't know why you got up so quick. You frightened me a little bit. apologize. So his six that he marked exhibit six, most of them were unreadable. He his his witness, it looked like had the fancy one, but I don't know if they're all the same. I would object to any of them until we get them analyzed to make sure they're all the same. They look different to me. They all look different.

I think my exhibit A is the only one that's the same. And we know what that is. dry weight. First of all, A is clearly different because he introduced it as being different. So that that's I don't know where Ry's going with that. Six, I haven't introduced that. I gave you all copies so you could look at it. I will give you a copy that I plan to introduce, but none of these ev these exhibits have actually been introduced. So I don't know what he's talking about, you know, but I will at this time introd offer exhibit six. Can we see evidence what exhibit six that is? Because there's this is this is the original. Yeah, but there's different copies that

we'd object to that. There's no foundation to that. And the the fact that he's Okay, go ahead. This is this is the page. I don't know what happened. Yeah, it's just the original back.

I can only read the second one. First, as to Yeah. So, as to Mr. Nicholas's objection, I moved that we sustain the objection because there was not foundation laid for a different cannabis test because the found only foundation laid was by the police that they took one thing to be tested, which was what we were told was exhibit six. So, there's not foundation for exhibit A, which is the basis for me moving that we sustain the objection. What about my objection to all of them? Because I think they're they're different. I don't think they're all the same. Some have pictures, some don't. Compare them. They're all the same. Do you have one that has all of them?

This is the official six that Nathan It doesn't have a picture. There's a measurement. I don't know what they Well, they're not all the same. I don't think that one. These are These are not These don't have pictures, ma'am. Does yours have a picture? Neither does hers. The one that he's using here has one. The one that he has a picture. That's the one he gave you. That's that's what he's introducing is six. This is what Nathan has introduced. It's just a copy without the picture. Yeah, we all have. Okay, perfect. Okay, then let's rewind this whole thing again. Okay, so here's mine.

So number six, as you'll notice, doesn't have a picture. Okay. Now, is it standard procedure in your lab to take a picture of your sample? There's a picture there. You guys got a picture on your version. It's just covered. It is cut off, but ours are all the same, but they don't have a picture. Correct. Correct. So, I'd like to speak to the original that does have a picture,

right? which would then be different from your two which is fine you can accept those as different some of them you can read some of them you can't I don't care what I'd like to know is why the one certificate of all these that he sent us this is the only one without a picture number six and so can you answer that you know why it doesn't have a picture has a Do does yours have a picture? Yeah, it's right there. It's cut off. So, what does it say underneath where the picture is supposed to go? What does it say? Can anybody read that? It's

represents the form in which the sample was collected. That package bulk materials may indicate the material was further handled or processed following testing.

Okay. So, just so we're clear you all, the the you know, somebody that's coming here seeking the truth, they don't and we're in a noncortroom setting, they don't hide by all these little objections and a bunch of different little stuff. They come right out and say this is what it is. They don't try to play hide the ball with you all. So, I just note that this doesn't have a picture. It may have had a picture of one time. I don't know why they blocked it out. Was the picture pornographic? What was what why did it get blocked out? You know, okay, I don't know either.

So anyway, I object to this whole exhibit number six because they're different. Okay. And it's clearly says those pictures are represents the form in which the sample was collected. Unpackaged bulk materials may indicate the material was further handled or processed during the testing. Okay, I'm done with that. Do object or abstain or I don't remember what. It's fine. I I think we have to wait until he offers it like procedurally. Are you offering it now? I will offer it.

I'll object to that exhibit being offered in who knows how many different forms. I I move that the board admit exhibit six. Perfect. Okay. Second to admit exhibit six to new evidence. Second. All I All y'all unanimous. Yeah. All right. No. Okay. So, are you familiar what hemp is defined? Are you familiar with this definition? Hemp is defined as cannabis containing delta 9 THC of.3 or less on a dry weight basis.

Correct. Correct. Yes. So that's where we're going from. And here would be my question. When I'm looking at at Oh, let me make sure I got the right one. I don't see any margin of error listed here on this. Is there a margin for error in your testing? There is a measurement of certain Yes. Is it listed here? It is in the um down at the bottom that says it is available upon request. It's a measurement of certainty. All right. Did council, did you request that? Did not. You're not wanting them to know about measures of uncertainty. You objection. Did this have a measure of uncertainty?

Do you know if this has a measure of uncertainty? All laboratory studies have a measurement of Okay. And it's our need to keep it as small as possible. Okay. Perfect. Now, on what's marked as exhibit six, does it list the measure of uncertainty or margin of error, if you will, does it list it here? No. Okay. It says that it does in the No, that's okay. It's not on this. Correct. Right.

It may be in a library somewhere or your computer or wherever it is, but it's not on this thing that we're trying to take this man's business license with today. So, we've entered this into uh evidence. We know that there's should a margin of certainty be considered when you're trying to figure out if something's legal or illegal or if it's caroxilated a few percentage points does the margin of certainty is that is that important? It is and that's why we are um audited by a third party to verify that our measurements are acceptable.

Perfect. So we don't know what the measure of uncertainty on the only documents that we have here today. They didn't bring that. So there is a measure uncertainty on all of these documents. So once again I won't object to it. I in fact glad that we have that. Um give me one second if you would. understood. Okay. So, quick quick question because it's very confusing. Um, I guess the one copy that he had does have a picture. I don't know if they're the same nugs as the chief identified or where they came from, but let me ask you this. Um, wouldn't you take the picture of when it gets there, like the sample, the packaging, the ceiling, all that stuff?

Yes. Did you do that in this case? Yes. Do we have that? Not in this document because the state requires a picture of the raw product. The state requires a picture of the raw product. Yes. No, none of us have that to look at. Um and and so you didn't take pictures of all the other stuff or you did. You just didn't bring today. I did. It's in our laboratory information system. It have been helpful if it was here today. So, as far as we know, there was no pictures from what the chief purported to bring to you before you opened it up and put it in. Is this Where is this? What's that?

He's mischaracterizing the evidence. He just testified that he did take pictures and so he's now back up. There were no pictures. We have no pictures and evidence. Correct. Did you do you have any pictures or did you provide any? Did she have any is any pictures in evidence as far as you know? I was down in the witness. Good enough. The answer is there isn't. May I approach? Can you tell us what where that picture was taken as far as it was in our laboratory? Did you take that picture? I took it.

And where's the cannabis when you took that picture? that was put into a waybo. So we we always take a a tear weighboat, determine how much product there is as and we take a picture of it. Okay. And then at any time when when you're doing your testing, is the product exposed to heat? No. There's never any lights. Is there lights on in the lab? We took the picture. It looks like it's well lit.

It is in a temperature controlled area and we monitor the temperature continuously. Good enough. Um I don't think I have any more questions. Let me consult with my expert real quick.

Okay. Um what's an acceptable marginal error that you got? Uh it'd be less than one less than 1%. Yeah. Okay. Now that's 1% of the value provided. So if you have 2.7 what was this 2.70 you'd have 1% of that which would be 0.0270. I have a question. How many did you how much how much did you test? What was the weight that you tested?

The weight um we did triplicate uh point would have been around 6 g by our method. So it's tested in triplicate. Okay. 6 g on each one. Mhm.

So three about five grams under two. It was certainly less than the nine grams. Did you test the entire package that was given to you? So um that is put into the webo. As we said a portion of that is taken to determine moisture by our standard operating procedure. It takes two grams plus or minus.1 to perform moisture. And then we took a portion of that then and then we have to retain a portion of it in case there's any kind of retesting that we have to do if there's say

retain some of this. What's that? Did you retain some of this? We did. So the after you tested it, you sealed it back up and then sheriff come picked it up. I signal did know if he did but good enough. It's not in our system anymore. Good enough. And and but some of that you all retained that sample. You didn't give the sheriff back all of it, did you? Yes. Okay. And then what was the total weight one more time? I'm sorry. I I don't know how much there was. Was it less than nine? I don't remember.

Okay. Okay. Good enough. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, just so we're clear, my team's a little unclear. It's all confusing. We haven't even got into the the stuff yet. So, okay. So, you divided it into threes. Have you ever heard, by the way, have you ever heard of this lab? No, I haven't.

Okay. Um th this lab is is uh out of Santa Ana, California, and they're the ones that that test the raw hemp and give the certification based on it being less than the the three number. Okay. So, um,

I don't have any more questions. These guys got a question, but I don't get what it is. So, we'll let you go. Thank you. Do you have more questions? Not for Thank you.

So, I want to introduce a couple more exhibits. I'll reduce all I start by offering exhibit one has the court or as the board to take judicial notice of exhibit one which is a section of the constitution of the state of Missouri. If you flip to, let me get your copy. If you flip to page two, you will see the constitutional definition of marijuana. And uh that means cannabis, indica, cannabis, sedia, etc., etc. Uh marijuana or marijuana terms marijuana and marijuana do not include industrial hemp as defined by Missouri statute. So that's the definition we have. It's not a great definition. That's the definition we have of what is marijuana legally in Missouri. I would offer that indefinite move that exhibit one be second.

I I would offer exhibit two. This is what the constitution refers to as the statutory definition of industrial hemp. call your attention to the first paragraph of that and it says hemp extract shall mean extract from a cannabis plant or mixture blah blah blah uh and subsection one is composed of no more than 3/10% THC by weight and offer exhibit We made exhibit two.

Hi. I would offer now exhibit four. This is the uh receipt from that uh Chief Young signed when he received the material from Sergeant Wilson. I object to that.

You've seen it. It wasn't. I've renewed my continued objection. I move that we overruled the objection. The objection was that it's not signed where it's supposed to be signed and it was just sprung on us. So exhibit four.

And we have exhibit five. I don't believe I have passed this one out to you all. You guys already have a copy. Exhibit five is uh the outside of the packaging. We object or renew our objection um from earlier. I move that the We haven't seen it till today. We don't know the relevance. We don't know the the origination no foundation was set to introduce that we object.

Yeah. I'd move that the objection be sustained as there's no foundation for the exhibit.

Yeah. Exhibit six was previously admitted. Yeah. And my final exhibit would be exhibit seven. Ask you to take notice of your own ordinance, section 21. We object to that one, too, judges. We've had no notice. It's probably incomplete. We don't know its foundation. We don't know its origin. We don't know its relevance.

You don't have to lay a a foundation for taking judicial notice of something. the city can take notice of its own ordinances. So this is section 21.015 of your ordinances which sets forth the grounds for revocation of a business license. Yeah, I move the objection be overruled and the exhibit 7 be amended second.

We would draw objection. I thought it was that other one number six. Oh my and the city would rest.

I move that we stand in recess until 10:25.

I got room is too. All right, let's not Yeah. No. I just

said your wife. your wife? I don't think so. Of course I have. I knew I would. She'll hear from her once in a while, but I have to ask Barb. I'm gonna go see Barb during spring break.

Okay. have lunch whether or not you can call her getting ready to go. He was in rest just recently. Yeah. Yeah. He's doing physical therapy I guess starting this week or next week. at the at the wagon at the wagon. I know he was he did earlier there because we had the same PT,

right? Well, he you know he was in the hospital, got out of the hospital, went to Russ and then he had had him come to the house. Did Did he have another stroke or something? She didn't say why. Other than that, I just told you.

Yeah, we haven't t Well, woman that used to work at the school, she has eggs. So, I get eggs from barri. So that's how I communication and it's great text. We can now be in Gulf Shores.

Golf Shores. Really? That'd be fun. I've never been here a long time ago, but I was a sponsor on a senior trip. So, do they do senior trips still? I don't think so. If if they do anything, it's it's not through the school. It's private. They make Francis or something. Yeah. Yeah. I was there.

But you know what was kind of funny? our last senior trip I went to Chaperon and uh it was probably one of the best ones they ever had because just the way it was planned. They found a non-denominational church camp just north of Orlando. It was it hadn't opened yet, but the staff was already there and it was like 30 miles away from any kind of civilization. two-lane road in front and a lake with alligators in the back. So those kids weren't gonna go anywhere.

It's not a very good ropes and all kinds of fun and they had a plan and they were even bragging about they didn't even try and sneak any drugs. But that that was uh the best trip. I wish we could have continued that.

But it was the year before that they had really screwed up. Where's it go? When we get to deliberation, make sure you on your first All right. Ready?

All right. Recess is open. We're back in open session. Mr. Fifer, Mr. Fifer. Yes, sir. You ready to call, please? I am. I am. What is

Yeah. Chip Schwarzen Troover the owner operator longtime resident of Nash land and the subject of today's meeting hearing affirmation.

I do 100%. Okay, now we're probably all getting a little tired, so I will I will try to go as quick as possible. I promise.

Um, okay. So, I I'm going to show um, by the way, for interest of revenue, I'm going to call him Chip. Do you mind if I call you Chip? I stumble on Schwarz introuver like I do decaroxulation. Okay. So, I'm going to show you some some some different um which we'll probably end up marking them exhibits, but I'm going to show you some different paperwork. In no particular order, I'm going to try to get the the easy stuff out of the way and then we'll we'll get into the meat and potatoes of of this thing. Okay. Does this look familiar to you? Yes. Could you describe what that is?

Um, it is a petition of patrons that um have signed in our support. Residents of Ashland for Boone County. Yeah. Boon County and anybody who's a resident. We get people from all over. All right. Do we know how many approximate signatures we have? Say two or 30 hundred at least.

Yeah. Two or 300. I I won't put it exhibit, but if you guys would all like to take a quick look at I don't know how it all works with voting and whatnot, but those are people that have taken their time to to support his business and what he does and so we do that. Okay. So, here's a letter that I would like to show you. It's a pretty much a sample one from you all. And um this was dated January 27th of 2026. And this is his basic letter from that the mayor of the city of Ashland. It was signed by Kyle Michelle MPA. I'm sorry if that's one of you on and I mangled that name, but um it was 27th of January 2026 and and I'd like you to read if you would that second paragraph. Yeah. The specific reason for revocation of this business is subject to revocation for otherwise conducting the business in an unlawful manner or in such a manner as to constitute a breach of peace or to constitute a menace of health, the safety and general welfare of the public and that the business has illegally sold marijuana or permitted marijuana to be sold as defined by the city code without a license to do so.

Okay. So, let me ask you this. Do you think that anything that you do is a menace to the health, safety, or general welfare of the public? No. Have you ever had um the police called to your establishment because of some disturbance or for any reason at all? Not one time. Um, do you believe that you conduct your business in an off unlawful manner?

No. How come you you wouldn't conduct your business in an unlawful manner? Because it would be illegal and and you could go to jail. There's lots of reasons that that I follow certain rules. Now, when you opened up this business, did you originally sell a a hemp or cannabis based product? No.

So, the original thing, what did you do? Could you walk us through that a little bit? Um, originally, um, how this all came about, I had a friend that works at Moers and she talked to Darice and Darice indicated that he would like to bring some form of cannabis business to Ashlin. um Ashlin and rewrote their city code. Um so before any of this transpired, we had to sit down with Kyle Dice the first time and looked over buildings and possible locations for this. Um I explained to them what we were wanting to do and they were on board for it. Um we looked at some places and decided on a place and then we had another sit down a few weeks later with Kyle Darice and the city lawyer again. And we explained everything to the city lawyer that we were wanting to do and he said that everything was

So what were you wanting to do? Uh we wanted a cannabis lounge where you could come and smoke. We have u we've made it recreational in society and we've told people that technically you have to smoke in private. Um however where somebody's supposed to go smoke in private you have bars where everybody can go drink but we have nowhere where you can go and smoke. Um, I'm sure most landlords would not allow you to smoke in their house because it would probably go against most of your insurance policies. So, you're telling the state of Missouri said, "You can smoke, but you got to go hide to smoke." But the landlord is saying, "Well, you can't hide in my house. So, we need to provide a place for people to go smoke." And that's what I explained to them. Um,

and that's how you got your original business license. Yes. Um, and I and you can ask these two. We we sat down and I discussed that we wanted to be able to provide a product for our patrons when they come there. You don't go to a bar and bring your own beer. They provide it for you. Okay.

Um we talked to multiple places and um on the state level it it it wouldn't work because of the way their system set up. They can only deliver to one address twice a day or some weird stuff like that. I'm not sure. I didn't go deep into it. Um the 2018 Farm Bill um opens it up for industrial hemp. Um in any case, that's when I started to buy them from reputable places. These people have agriculture numbers. They're licensed in other places and the stuff all comes with lab testing. Um anyway, back to we had this sit down with the with everybody. Um and everything seemed to be fine. Um, we've been here two years and this obviously started a little while back. Uh,

and did you did you uh invest any money in renovating the place and Oh, I spent a lot of money renovating. How how much would you say there? Probably close to 100,000.

Okay. And then that was that was with the acquiescence of the the the city fathers or can we say did anybody object? No, not whatsoever. I will go this far. We joked around and you guys remember this about putting a 35 foot bong up out there as a uh it would been in the Guinness Book of World Records. And Kyle joked around, well, let's put it in the middle of the roundabout. So, when somebody jokes around with that with me, I'm assuming that that means they're very open to this type of thing. Okay. However, now we're here.

Okay. We understand that. So, a as you said that that you would never conduct business in an unlawful manner. Um, besides the illegality, you you got a lot of money vested in that. You probably made some good money. Um, now you pay your taxes on time. Yes. Pay taxes to the city of Ashland. You got an idea approximately how much those might have been in the two or three years? Oh, quite a bit. Over 100,000 probably. Okay. Um, so let me ask you this. Would you ever permit marijuana, which by the definition, what's the definition between

if it's over.3 or under.3? Would you ever permit that to be sold? No. Okay. Did we You were in here and you you saw that the guy that came in in undercover and he didn't identify you. Had you ever seen that man before? No, he didn't familiar with me. Did you sell him any sort of product at all, much less something illegal? Not that I remember. I in in any of your employees, would they be permitted to to sell something outside of your designated products?

No. Okay. Now, um, did you question your your uh employees and and and everybody after this came to light? Yes.

Did did any of them admit to to to selling any product besides your legal product? No, we only sell. Okay. So, when you have a a uh farmers market, for lack of a better term, can can you describe that a little bit just briefly? It's no different than the regular farmers market other than we're using him. Okay. And now you have you have customers in there at that time.

Now, I don't know if you all have ever been there. And again, at the interest of brevity, um, you kind of have the the place divided between, uh, typical, you might call it a head shop or or something. What's sold out in the front of your store?

The the front part of the building when you walk in is a traditional style smoke shop, head shop, whatever you want to call it. We have glass, we have papers, uh hemp wraps, um pretty much is anything that you can use to to smoke your hemp. And and you heard the retired officer say that when he walked in, it was obvious to him that they were all selling marijuana. Is that Did you remember him saying that? He said that. However, the big discrepancy is here. We're kind of arguing over the same. If I'm holding one plant in my hand, I'm saying it's him. They're saying it's marijuana. On a federal level, if we want to get into this, the Farm Bill Act created a loophole. I buy my stuff from agricult. They have agriculture numbers. They're licensed places. They come with a CL.

Let me stop you right there real quick. Do you have any um we have a series of that that back back Dice has had all this paperwork. I've provided him with it um a while back in any well but let's let's lead up to that. So after we get open we're open for x amount of time till I receive a letter on October

whatever date it was 13th whatever date it was. Um, as soon as I received that letter, I immediately called up here and talked to Darla and I asked Darla. I said, "Hey, what's going on here? Why am I getting a letter to take my business license?" Darla, whose name is on this letter, says, "I have no idea. I'm going to have to check into it." Well, I would think that the city clerk's names on some, she would know what's going on, first of all. So, immediately then, I called Dares up and I said, "Hey, Darice, what's going on here?" And he was like, "Well, I really don't know. let me check into it. Da da da da. Um, at that point, I went and made copies of my receipts from places, uh, my their federal licensing numbers, all of the paperwork that comes with it, um, through the mail. It gets shipped to me in the federal mail. Um, if this is illegal, then this is huge. Um I am in good faith buying from places that send it to me um with all the proper paperwork for the Farm Bill Act. So

has it been tested? Yes, it is tested before I get it by who? By accredited labs that test for this and then they then do they mark it? Do they put a seal on it? What do they do? Um So this goes back to the argument of the the way that hemp is tested on a federal level. It is tested 30 days before it is harvested. Now that's important. That is very important.

I'm going to object to this line of testimony. I don't think we've laid any kind of foundation as to why he would be an expert on that particular subject. Well, I believe some foundation if you'd like or you can rule before I lay it just rephrase the question or lay the foundation. Yeah. You How long have you owned uh a shop that specializes in cannabis byproducts? Um two years until we've been here. Yeah. Okay. And then before that, we've had smoke shops and stuff like that, but we didn't specialize in we had apparatuses for using your product.

Okay. And then knowing as you as you said earlier that selling a legal an illegal product would get you thrown into jail. Mhm. You'd be using me for what I usually do, criminal stuff, right? Yep.

And that hadn't happened. you uh if you opened up a another shop somewhere, you check with all the authorities like you did here, more or less get the Okay. Did any did anybody that you talked to before this when you explain these things, did any of them question the legality when when we first opened this loophole wasn't known to me? Um therefore, no, it was not discussed. What was discussed is that if we could find a way to be able to provide products for our patrons that we would do that and both of them and the city lawyer agreed that was fine.

Okay. So then as the loophole came in, did you study it? Oh yes. Did you study it like your freedom was on the line? It kind of is. I mean Okay. And through through your study, have how much how many how many I don't know pounds would you say that you've bought of the industrial hemp? Well, I I mean I can't say for sure, but every one of these is a different one. So over a hundred? Oh, yeah.

Okay. So over a 100 pounds. And how many people have have you presented your chart and your findings of why it comports with the farm bill and other federal and state regulations. How long have you studied on those things? Oh, quite a while. So I would say at least as anybody in this room if there's an expert on it I would say he is certainly enough of an expert to testify how he runs his particular lawful business. So I would ask you to o overrule his objection.

I would renew the objection. There hasn't been any showing that he has any kind of particular legal knowledge, that he's, you know, got any knowledge of what the statutes are, how they should be interpreted, that he's consulted with any uh federal government officials, that he's ever participated in any of these inspections, that he's describing, that he has any real knowledge other than, you know, what he might have read on the internet about what the process is. I would move or I move that the board overrule the objection to the extent the witness be allowed to testify to his understanding of perfect. Perfect. So before we get into that, I'd like in favor

I Oh, I'm sorry. You're good now. Are we good? Yeah. There we go. I've got a series of photos that I told you before that that is going to detail how his operation functions and these were taken in the last couple days. 24 hours. Okay. So, what's what's that? Um, this if anybody wants to see it, I know it's a little grainy picture so you guys can look at it. That is UPS delivering a package of flour of hemp flour to me. Um, will you see what's next? That's fine.

Okay. This next step, um, this is an invoice from a license place. I mean, I'm not here. Can we see that a second? I want to go through just just a little bit. Um, can you can you tell us a little bit about what that where where's that invoice from? Uh, Discount Farms from Albany, Oregon. So, you bought this hemp product through UPS. Well, no, they delivered it. They delivered it from from Albany Farms in Oregon.

Oregon. Okay. And this is what Can you want to explain a few of these things to these guys? shares a granddaddy per sugar wax one pound moon rock quarter pound moon rock quarter pound flower pound flower pound flower pound and another flower a pound. Okay. And then you just ordered them straight from up from

I go I go to their website um look up the products that I want to order. uh we contact them, place an order, and then they ship it to us. Okay. Um this next thing, there's a there's several of them, and it is a certificate of analysis. Can you explain to us a little bit about what that does and how you feel that protects you and how that allows you to to conduct a certificate of analysis the same thing that the gentleman testified to earlier that they do at their lab. Um these companies that have agriculture numbers which is in front of them, they're licensed in other states. They're licensed through either the state or through the feds and have hemp handlers licenses and everything. and they have their stuff tested at third party labs. It's got all the accreditations and everything here. And this is and this goes back to I understand that one. Okay. So, it looks here like as you guys can see there's a certificate analysis for everything that he orders. Okay. And what is this certificate analysis? How do you feel like this protects you? Explain to to them if you would how how how that all works. So the difference is because I'm buying industrial hemp the way that it's tested. And I realize you can say I'm not an expert, but I've looked into it. It is tested 30 days before it is harvested. As long as it is harvested in that 30 days, it no longer needs to be tested. If it if they happen to not harvest it in that 30 days, then they have to retest it again. This is the way the federal Farm Bill Act is set up. I'm not making the rules. They are.

And so, as long as it tests, and you can see here, my THCA is really high. And he he said the same thing. Their THCA is high. And it was 2.7 on the THC. on this particular sample the uh THC is 2327 which is under the legal limit and as long as it is tested then you can ship it you can do whatever it wants it still is considered industrial hemp throughout the whole process even if you manufacture products and I realize it's a loophole this is how they get around it the THCA drinks that they have at places here in town and I know you know

that is because the only way that is legal is that they are using industrial hemp to make it and therefore it is considered hemp throughout the whole process. Um that these were all bought in the city limits of Ashlin. None of this was bought outside of the city limits. And so the whole thing in my opinion is if we're talking legalities and one one thing is over illegal. This is no different. I'm being targeted. I understand all these things, but it's they sell concentrate at other places here in town. They sell flour. Let me see. Okay, this is just I'm going to renew my objection. We just want the truth. I mean,

well, I I do want the Well, we're not as we said. There's a method for determining the truth. It doesn't include going on and talking about what other people may have done from you packages that we haven't seen, haven't been tested, we know nothing about. He rings in a bag and it says, "Hey, look, other people violate the law. I'm the prosecutor for years." And everyone say, "Well, yeah, I was speeding, but other people were speeding faster. Why didn't you pull the motion?" Well, that that that case doesn't that that defense is not recognizable. He's a criminal defense attorney. He knows that. You can't say other people committed other crimes as a defense for you committing a crime. I'm not saying you did. I'm saying your attorney said, if I could. So that's my that's my objection. These are not relevant. They can't come in.

If I if I could I'm not saying that these people are committing a crime. I'm saying they are selling THCA, which is not a crime. That is what I'm saying. They are not committing a crime and neither am I. They don't they come pre-ested. Hold on. Hold on one second. if I could. As we said, as council pointed out when this thing first started, this isn't. Okay, just hold on.

He He's aggravating just Okay, as council pointed out earlier, this isn't a court of law and the rules of evidence sort of apply. they don't really apply. But I don't know about you all, but the the next step from here is the court of law and the next and the next and figuring out, you know, what his damages are and and if he was selectively enforced, but but we want the truth. So, we're not here trying to hide behind like it's a court of law. I have only put in one exhibit and I could barely get that in. I've had about three objections. I let him people talk all they want because I think you all are spending your night here for your town and for your truth. And the truth is and that that policeman that said he didn't know this. You guys need a new policeman if he didn't know this. He's probably as willfully blind

for testing again. Yeah, it it is me replying to this isn't a courtroom. There aren't the same rules of evidence and this is the truth. These were bought right there. They have the receipts and the dates in this town. He's imputing the honesty of the chief of police with no evidence. I would move that we sustain the objection as to the relevance of the license. So, yes. Okay, good enough. Can I can I make a motion? Hold on. We're going to get back to it. Well, I just favor. This rice we're going through. Okay. So, forget you guys saw these. They were they were bought here, but they're not introduced in evidence.

Stop dragging it out like that.

I'm sorry. I apologize. That was uncalled for. Um, okay. Let's get back. So, and I mean it comes down to this. I mean, I get we're arguing. He's saying I'm selling marijuana. I say I'm selling him. I am in good faith as a business owner buying from licensed places. I'm not buying it from the street. I'm not buying it. It comes with all of this information in the packaging. How it is federally legal, how it is uh that that shows there, you know, that's an agriculture number. This is not a he this is not me making these things up. Um I said this to Darice when he came in to get the I gave him all this paperwork months ago. I said to Reese, why don't you guys why doesn't somebody just come in and ask me what I'm doing? Why are we being sneaky and going about this? I'm not being sneaky. I have all of my stuff here. And this this is the frustrating part. I I asked you, Darice, why don't you guys come in and talk to me? I don't know why we had to go through all of this when somebody could have just come in and said, "Hey, what are you doing in here?" Sent me a letter that said, "Stop doing what you're doing in here." So, I I I'm just This is where I'm at with it is, you know, I'm I'm doing things as best I can. Um I've not been charged with a crime. I've not been arrested. I've not been anything except accused of doing these. And it it's stated on the Ashlin City thing that I am conselling a controlled substance and committing crimes. Um if I am, by all means, have your chief of police come in here and arrest me right now if I'm committing a crime. But obviously, We don't have a crime here because nobody's been arrested.

What was the question? Well, the question was, do you feel like you're running an unlawful business? No. And these things are and and as you freely stated, you put your freedom on the line every day opening up. Yeah. If you thought that it was illegal, would you be selling it? No. That's why I went the route of the the illegal route through the federal government. And did any of your employees, as far as you know, particularly with any of your permission, sell some sort of illegal product to that undercover policeman?

No. And if you would have known that somebody sold something and I go if and the original he said the original complaint was that there was opiates, mushrooms, marijuana, whatever. I I forget what all he said. Are would policemen be welcome to come to your place? I I I asked him to. I've asked Have I Darice I've asked you numerous times even before this to come up there and check the place out? I've not I've not tried to hide anything in there. My doors are open. I I've asked everybody to come in and check it out. Um it's like nobody wants to come in there. I don't know what the deal is. It's I know they all go to the bar down there at Woodies and drink and go have dinner there.

So, let me ask you this question. As your as your We're going to get back to it. As your building is divided.

Okay. And then if you want to get into the secondary part of the building, do you have um any signs up? Do you allow kids in there? No, we don't allow kids. We have signs up. Right on the front door is the little paper I gave you guys that says notice to law enforcement agencies of what we have in the building. So, I figured that would at least get them to where hey, come in and ask me what we're doing. Um anyway, so you come in the front of the building, we have the smoke shop there. Um, if you want to go into the private part of the club, you sign a waiver, a whole harmless agreement. Um, pretty much just says you're an adult, you know what you're doing. Um, all of these things and that and then you can go back. We have a we have a video arcade room. You've seen it. It's It's pretty cool.

Pinball machines, dart boards, pool tables, stuff for people to do. Um, we have a back patio area you can hang out on and smoke. Uh, we have another game room. We have a big vet room. We do uh open mic night, we do comedy night, we do game night, we do all kinds of other things um to get people to come here and get out and do something. Um you know, it's everybody loves the place. You can see we've got great support here. Um a ton of people have signed the thing. Um it's just it it's just a fun place and it's it's good. So they're entering a private club when they come back where the the hemp is not everybody if you don't sign the waiver you can't go back there. And do they have to be 21? Yes.

Do they have to provide you their ID? Yes. Do you take down their names and sign up on the paper that they sign? We do. We don't other I mean we don't scan IDs. We don't um I we we passed this around earlier and um I don't know if everybody got a chance to see this. I would like to to to seriously introduce this as evidence. Um, this is a letter to law enforcement. Did you guys see it when it went around? The letter to law enforcement? I didn't. There you go. You want to read it?

All right. Oh, wow. That would be great. Well,

I have to object. There's no foundation. We don't know who Kyle Stratton is. Are you going to put on evidence about who he is? I'm not. Or was it the truth of this? Nope. You're offering for the truth. We're offering it to show that that's what he thinks. He has his license. As he explained to everybody, that's the state of the law as we operate today and what gives him the right to sell. So, you're offering this for the truth, but that this this accurately states the law. I'm going to offer it to him to let him tell us what that is. Read over real quick.

So, this is obviously a letter to law enforcement that they put in all of the packages that they ship through the federal mail. Um so that if it's opened up by any federal officers even UPS the the postal service any of it they can look at this and it gives it is enough probable or not probable cause but what am I a legal shield

whatever so that they know that it is being shipped. Now, if they want to investigate farther, by all means, but if they know this is in there, it kind of holds them up from going farther because it says, "Hey, if you follow these rules, um, what you're doing is legal. It's interstate commerce." If they're, and this isn't me, I mean, these guys could get in big trouble if they're shipping it from Oregon to Missouri through the mail. It's interstate commerce. But because of the farm bill, it doesn't qualify because it's industrial hemp, not marijuana. And I I am in good faith. That's the whole thing is as a business owner and I'm just using Woodies because I know them. They're not retesting their beer. They're taking in good faith that Feal Beverage or whoever is truly selling them 32 or 50 beer. And and if the argument with Darice, like I said, is that I'm buying it in bulk and repackaging it, you're not going to go into Woodies and tell him he can't sell a keg of beer anymore because it's bulk. He can only sell cans and bottles. I mean, that's trying to So, my my whole argument is um if you said the day you were there, Darice, it makes sense from business to buy in bulk and repackage. You do business yourself.

Uh I don't have any problem with this coming into evidence for the purpose of showing why he believes what he believes. My objection is if we're offering it for the truth of this that the the facts stated in that letter are true, I would object because there's no foundation for that. It's a bunch of legal statements that are completely unsupported from a guy we don't know. We offer it only that that's what came in his packages and that's why his packages do all your packages make it to you?

Yes. I've never had one come up missing. You've never had one come up missing and that's in all of them. We think that's a a summary for you all of the law. I'm sure you'll want to do your own research before you decide on this, but that's a a really good summary of the law. I hate to keep objecting, but he just said he was going to offer it only for the purpose of saying this is what he got in his packages. And then he says, "I'm offering for the purpose of showing that this is what the law is." Well, you knew my objection. Okay. There's no foundation to prove that this guy is an expert on the law or that what he's saying even is a true statement of the law. It's some guy from somewhere who sent some letter.

I move that the board sustain the objection in part but admit the evidence to show what comes in the packages. Second, do we have a picture in there that that comes with the packages? Not in there. I'll stipulate it comes in the packages. It comes in the packages. So make with it. We're not offer it for anything, but it came in the packages.

We're not verifying that that's the the true state of the law except for this man that operates a lawful business and puts his safety and his freedom at line believes that's the a a proper representation of the state of the law. There's one other thing that that I'd like to ask you. um the do you know of any in your capacity as a business owner and keeping up with things ha have you um kept a breast of of the big beautiful bill as they call it? Yes, I'm very I don't know that I'm well versed into everything in it but anything that has to do with THCA obviously I'm okay

well honed in on because it 100% affects me. Okay. It it sort of had a you might say a would you say a shock effect through the hemp industry? Oh yes. Um I'm I would venture to guess almost everybody in this room has seen all of the stuff with the state with the fed. Um there was a provision slid into the big beautiful bill that closes this loophole in November 12th 18

November 1826. Um obviously the federal government openly admits that it's a loophole um and that it is a legal loophole otherwise they wouldn't be making something to close this legal loophole. Um in any case uh yeah it has to do with um changing the 3% overall. It just had to be.3 overall to um.3 by volume by a dose or something. They're they're changing it, but at this point there's nothing that says that any of this is illegal.

And so on November 18th of this year, are would you feel as as you know it right now, would you feel would you feel free and and protected to sell the products that you sell now? No. because the loophole's closed. Pole's closed and it will be illegal. Now, if you've checked any of your competitors or people in the state, are you familiar with um say a place called the gray zone? Yes.

What does it do? Uh the there's a place in can it's called it's gray area. It's a gray area dispensary is the name of it. It's right on I7 in Kansas City. You can't miss it. And they openly are a gray area dispensary. they um sell THCA. That's the whole argument here is coming down to in my opinion that I'm having it tested at a federal level that says that it's tested and harvested at this point and they openly admit it will slowly decarboxilate over time um through growing through heat um just through sitting out in the open. It could be in a dark room. It all it takes is about 80° for it to slowly go up. However, the DEA stance on it is is it's tested here, so we we're not going to keep retesting it um down the road. As long as it's tested here and passes, it's it's acceptable all the way through. And like I said, that's how they're making THC drinks, gummies, uh the the vape carts, all of this falls under that that they're using the industrial hemp, psychoactive hemp that passes at this point. And the federal government says that as long as you're processing that, it still is considered the hemp because you're using the same product.

Even though when you take the drinks or whatever later, they might as they advertise they have THC. That one right there, it says it's it doesn't say THCA on it. It says THC. And and now let me ask you lastly is so in November 18th if nobody did anything about this and you kept doing your business your your business is done anyway and do you expect the gas station down the street to shut down? No, they'll just quit selling the product. They'll quit selling

the product. And so it's going to be your belief that you're only going to do this until it becomes illegal when the when the new act goes into it. I have no intentions of doing this if it becomes illegal on a state or federal level. I got you. And would you like to remain open, remain a a viable alternative for people? Would you like to continue paying your taxes and whatever fees and and place and keep running a lawful peaceful business?

Absolutely. Like I said, um it all comes down to the argument of when it's tested, what it is. Um and like I said, above and beyond everything, I'm in good faith buying from these places. And if if it does go up over it a little bit, um I I don't know how I can technically be held responsible when I'm getting it here tested. Um like I said, we're not going around testing everybody else's stuff or if it's legitimately this or that in there because in good faith, every business is expecting that whoever's above them is testing it properly when they're telling them they are. So lastly, do you want to continue to run your lawful nonpublic menace business until until the law changes?

Yes, absolutely I do. Okay. I don't have any other questions. Wait, I do have one more. Oh, okay. I'm sorry about this. I'm trying to get quick. Okay. So, you have two sides of your business. You have the the shop side and the other side. And at some some point, you allow a farmers market, do you not? Yes.

And I I'd like to introduce this as exhibit B. That's his vendor agreement for his farmers market that he does one day a week. Excuse me. You okay with that? That's what it is.

Okay. Um can you tell me what that is? Um this is a vendor agreement for our farmers market people. Um once again because I we are trying and doing everything as we feel is best in legal ways. Um so the vendor agreement is between me and whoever the vendor is. Um I ask that they provide their business name and LLC, a tax ID number, a business address, their phone, all those things. Um and then in the agreement specific product specification vendors agree to sell only THC tetrahan cannib cannabonoid acid products. No other forms of cannabonoids, mushrooms, psychedelics or any kind may be sold at Mary Jane's events. Vendor is require required to follow these standards and fail to do so may result in removal of the vendor. Then number three is the certification requirements. The vendors agree to provide certificate of analysis for their THC products. These certificates must come from an accredited third party and include details on products composition, purity and compliance with applicable laws. Um then goes down to the compliance of laws. Vendors agree to compliance with all federal, state, local regulations and ordinances with the distribution of THCA products. Um, if you want, you're more than welcome. And then the last last last question, unless my assistant has one other, the last question is, would you ever allow opiate, crack, heroin, anything like that? Has that ever been sold in your shop as far as you know? And what would you do if you found somebody doing anything like that? Um, as the thing anybody gets in anything, we are a cannabis club first and foremost and only. Um, I we don't even care. We sell glass products and I know you can go up

to A1 any other place. We do not sell any products that are to do any other drug than cannabis. No crack pipes. No crack pipes. No bubblers. We don't even sell tobacco wraps. We only sell hemp wraps. We are 100% hemp and hemp related stuff. Okay, one more deal.

Okay, my assistants all getting me prepared if we for trial or something. Okay, so another good one. Um, and this is the um, yeah, could you tell us agreement, the release form, the hold harmless agreement that everybody signs to go into the back to join your club? Yeah. To join the club.

Could you could you let me see this real quick? Could you read um, can you read a couple a couple particularly number two? Um, prohibited substance. Alcohol is strictly prohibited. If alcohol is found, you will be asked to leave immediately. illegal substances of any kind are not allowed on the premises. Um, that's Brian the main one when it comes to any other forms of of stuff and uh, as we said before, neither you who wasn't identified by the police officer or any of your employees who were weren't identified by the police officer. I believe when he described that scene and if it wasn't your employees, do you think that it might have been possible that maybe one of the

could have been any of the vendors? Uhhuh. Could have been any of them. If it came on a Friday, it could be anyone. Could be anybody. Not one of you or your vendors or your employees as far as you know or as far as you would allow. Yeah. Okay. Last thing. I'm done. Thank you. The board stay in recess until 11:15. Well, you can come back in after recess until it's just like so that we don't have to wait to come back.

Hi. Kyle,

Kyle. I think what he's saying is he gets a big Yeah, I think

you know what I'm saying. I'll step one of us. Yeah, keep the heads up. Yep.

That's my Not ready.

Let me get your costume back recesses. recess is over and I'll back. So, uh, you want to cross examine? Yes. Briefly. Thank you. Mr. Schwarz, the trooper. Trooper, which if my limited German is correct, that means something like black cloud, black forest, black forest, black something.

Okay, that's not relevant. Um, okay. So, I appreciate you were saying that that can't read my notes from far away. You would never permit marijuana to be sold. So, he said it's not marijuana, though. Okay. And and you said that uh you want to you want to conduct your business in a lawful manner and you would never conduct it in an unlawful manner. And you said something about, you know, you're happy for the police to come in and look anytime. Are you willing to say that the police could come into your place anytime, even without a warrant, and look around and make sure? Absolutely. Okay. You're saying that on the record that the police can come in without a warrant?

I have asked a re police. I don't care who comes in there. If I am using the right product and the right paperwork and everything, I have nothing on a legal level to worry about. Okay? So I am perfectly happy with the police with the reef with Kyle with any of any of these people coming in and looking. I welcomed it. Okay. I don't have any further questions. I would move that the board take no action on the business license of Mary Jane's Place at this time. Do I have a second? Second. All in

favor? I am a That's very ramp up. should be. I think Just tired.