Harbor Committee - Regular Meeting

Sorry, I got to turn the video on here. Would you start again? Okay, I'm going to call the meeting to order. And uh the first item on the agenda is the minutes of September 9th. We need approval. Make a motion for approve the minutes. Second. Seconded. Any discussion? If not, all in favor raise your hand, say I. I.

All carried. Okay. The other big deal uh and under new business was the RFP discussion and 67 pages of uh documentation. I thought it was very thorough and I have no ability to criticize it. So, anybody can make any comment they like. It is in the paper. I It's on it. This is it second week, I think. So, can't change it now then, right? Well, by paper, not just We had to approve it.

I mean, they he sent it to us to approve. So, I guess I don't know. Do you want a motion, John, to approve it? Yeah, it can't hurt. No, it can't hurt. Let's do that. Is does anyone have any comments about that report? Okay. Make a motion and I'm I'll move that we approve the RFP uh proposal as presented by Greg Johnston. Second that. All in favor raise your hand say I post. Okay. Good. All right. We're on to commercial flow opening proposals.

All right. So, uh, we had four proposals. I've gone through them and looked them all over. All four meet all of the specifications that we put forth. So, I guess the easiest way to do this, they're uh, they've all provided insurance, they've all provided their captain's licenses, and they've all gave a brief synopsis of what they are looking to do. So, I think the easiest way is for me to read them to you. So, this is Cranberry Oysters, Lauren and Joshua Gray. Yep.

Um, her description is, "I would like to be providing tours to small groups, six people or less, of my 5 acre oyster farm off Cranberry Island. Access to the pool where my farm is located is within 2 hours of high tide. Tours would be approximately two hours long and would run from May through October with the majority of them taking place during June, July, and August. At most, I would run two tours per day, but most likely one tour with a frequency of two to three per week with bookings and communications through my website. They provided everything. She's provided her insurance uh was the town of Mount Desert. uh listed as additionally insured.

What what uh size boat is she using? It is a 30 30 or 31 ft boat. Oh, I'm sorry. He's the one that came in here. Yeah. Yeah. Right. That's in there. Maybe

he is using a a 23 foot open center console boat with 150 horse motor on it. Seems sufficient. Um they provided their captions license. Everything else was in order with her application. So in my opinion, she provided and has given everything that we've asked for. O wants to operate within the six-pack that is available and drop off. Correct. Yes. Be low impact.

So, one one quick question. When we do the license agreements, does it specify their usage? No, because the six-pack uh drop off pickup has a lot of flexibility. they can do um I mean with every lease like some people are have can advertise in the lease agreement this is a non-advertisable I understand but with each lease agreement do we are we you know writing down that they said what we're they're allowed to do we haven't specifically but the only ones that can actually advertise is the ones that have scheduled trips

I understand but should we in the least agreement specify what what they're allowed to do wouldn't hurt. You could you mean just pick up drop off? Is that what you're saying? So they there's a there's a clear understanding of what their license agreement allows them to do. But this was very clear how it was advertised in that manner. No, I'm just saying for a broad for for everybody that when we redo their lease agreement, shouldn't we say like you have this, you have this, you know?

Sure. We we can do that. uh can be an addition to our lease agreement with this one starting and we can update the others. There's only a couple that have um scheduled trips available to them. So Elen Bunker, um the Sea Princess and Mike Olsen and uh Carl Burn has one for one of his folks. All right. The second one is uh Jason Clark from Sarrento. Uh he is done the same offered uh the insurance he would be operating a 30 foot boat and his thing says depending on what is allowed by the town I would like to fill the void left by John Dwwelly running a water taxi service with possibilities of short sightseeing cruises. So this gentleman is basically looking to step in and fill exactly what was given up. And he has provided all the insurance, his captain's license and documentation for his boat. So for those that don't didn't know dwell, I don't know most of you did, but it was a come and go situation. Drop off and pick up.

No, no particular schedule. Look at this taxi. A water taxi, right? He was a six-pack. Yep.

So, the next one is uh Paul Thorman. Paul has provided everything. Also, uh Hall has listed a 18 ft boat, but with approval and winning of this would uh purchase a a larger boat that would be more appropriate. So, Paul is I plan to operate a water taxi service to and from the Cranberry Isles and Northeast Harbor. I plan to be available by phone for reservations and may set up a Facebook page if appropriate. Further, if accepted, I hope to upgrade my vessel to one that is provides rain protection and comfortable seating while still being a smaller, easier to maneuver size. I do not plan to run passengers at night except for on rare occasions, but would however make use of a long daylight hours of summer. As most are aware, I have decades of experience on the waters of MDI in Northeast Harbor, and I'm very familiar with the Northeast Harbor Marina and its operations and commercial operators. Paul has also provided his insurance and a quote to add the town of Mount Desert as a additionally insured if chosen. on that require for coverage for the plan. Million dollars

half a million I think is the number. Most of them um carrying million dollar policies but I think our minimum is half a million initially. Good. No questions on that one. And the last and final one is Dallas Hodkins. Uh Dallas has also provided everything. Dallas would be operating a a 30foot lobster style boat. And Dallas says that he will provide six-pack uh charters, private charters for fishing trips andor destination transport to local areas, three-hour fishing trips, which include sightseeing, fishing with rod and reel, and lobster trap hauling. So now the discussion is the lottery system. We don't we have space for one both. Is that what you're saying, John?

We have one and we have four applicants that have provided everything that we've asked for

and we have none of them are residents of our town. Right. That is correct. See, we had a clause in there years ago that has always bugged me ever since, and we never gave any priority to uh residents, and I always felt that that was a big mistake. U matter of fact, the year I was in the lottery, there were four openings and and somebody from Southwest applied for three boats, you know. kind of bugged me. So, we don't have a provision for residents. So,

we don't have any residents anyways. No, I understand right now. Well, I I agree. It would be a good thing to put in there. I do, too, because these are all non-residents. I mean, it's we've got the best facility on the coast of Maine. We know that. And uh we have an opening for one person. So I don't know how you want to handle this. I mean I think these are all we have to we just draw an email. We we we the harbor master resents us to the harbor committee. The harbor committee says we approve the applicants are full and complete and the select board has a final say on the applicants that get put into the lottery system. I I understand

and we talked about story was one of the first that brought it up. I know you have in the past and that's one of our discussions on the ordinance changes when we come forward was identifying how we've done with the other you know weight lists and moorings and stuff to uh look at look at the application process for commercial operators. So Olsson was on a list for a long time. Is he backed out? No, he is operating. He he is operating. He has he's been given a spot. He's has had a spot all along. He never he never lost it. It wavered a little bit and we gave him a push and he Okay. got a new boat. And now Rick, I got a question for you.

Before you carry passengers, does your vessel have to be inspected by the Coast Guard? Anything over six passengers has to be inspected. So these these four these do not. So if we got an application over six, they would have to come with a Coast Guard inspection report. Okay. Thank you. They don't but we don't even have that opening. So we don't. Yeah. And would it say somewhere that you can only put in one application? That could be something that we could definitely Well, it probably should. Yeah, I think so. I mean, that I was flabbergasted that was just gaming the system. Oh, totally. Totally. How much That's not our problem right now. Go ahead.

How much of a job would it be to change it to to just an ordinance change? An ordinance change? We've got a couple changes we're thinking about making. Does that have to go to the town meeting? It does. Don't do anymore. Three or four ordinance changes a year. Just trying to keep our ordinance tidied up and uh two that you just me mentioned seems like pretty good changes have, you know, local people have. Well, I mean, I think somehow we've got to give them a priority. That's all. And uh which we did on our morning weight list last year at town meeting. So, you know, this would kind of be an ongoing rest of that up. How do you give a resident

priority if it was two residents? Yeah. I mean, this is a big issue. It would be we'd have to have a way discussion with the lawyer and and find a way that would uh take the two and a half, you know, we don't have that problem right now, right? But we could have. Oh, we would be in trouble. I think you'd have to draw them. If you had two, you'd have to put those two names in the hat. Well, just like how are we going to decide these four? We're going to make them out of a hat or have four plain envelopes that somebody stirs up and somebody that's not involved at all picks one of them. And that's

we don't we don't decide our favorite. No, we can't. Get four scratchies and give one to each person. Whoever wins the most wins. Kind of what I need to know. How you you want to draw? Do you want to pick out of a hat or would you like four plain white envelopes with each one has a name in it? Somebody stirs them up, sets them on the table and somebody that is not involved grabs one of them. Doesn't matter. That's the last time I watched the food truck when there was multiples. That's how they did it. Okay. There was three plain envelopes. Somebody stirred them up and somebody that wasn't involved. Somebody make a motion. Throw the four names in a hat. No, we got to go.

No, we're going first. We got to make a motion to approve the applicants to be reviewed and accepted by the selectman. Before we do that, you've got one of them in there. I don't remember the gentleman's name, but he's got an 18 ft boat and six passengers plus the captain. I already he said in his application that he was going to buy, if he gets it, he will buy a bigger boat. He promis application the uh he sents a sticker of his uh coast guard thing and it I think it showed that it would hold people or an 18 foot bush.

Yes. Well, iPad doesn't bother me some insurance companies draw basically six persons. So, I'll make a motion that we approve these applications and pass it on to the selectman. Is that what you're looking for, Chris? Yes. If you'd like me, I can read it in the order. Don't put You don't put it in. I think they have to. I'll second that. No, we're going to. It's just You said you were going to pass it on to the selectman. I'm a little confused. They just need to approve the slate of Oh, so they approve it and then we then we pick one and then we go back for final approval.

So what we're also doing is we're shutting this off at 4. We're not accepting any more applications that ended at 2:00 on Friday. Okay.

So in 8.8 the harvester should forward all applications to the harbor committee with a recommendation of approval, approval of conditions or nonapproval. The harbor committee shall review the applications of the har with the harbor master's recommendations and for the applications to the select board with the committee's recommendations. The select board shall make the final determination on all applications. I in my reading of that my thought was that we go through this whole process we pick one and we send it to the selectman with our pick and they also get to look at the other three. That's my interpretation of what you just

You're missing the final sentence. The select board shall make the final determination on all applications. Yeah. They they will take our recommendation say we picked one and we go this is the one that we've picked out of a lottery. They can look at all three and if unless they come up with another reason to deny that person, they would most likely go with our recommendation from the lottery. I think that's the way we've always done it. That's the way it's been done. But yes, they do have the final say. They have the final say on everything we do. But they we do and then in the end we're going to do the pick. Or is the flint going to be?

We're going to do the pick and send it to them saying this is our pick. Here are the other applicants. This person won our lottery. Yeah. Would you please? And they get the final say on that person. If there were two openings, that's why there's an S on there. Get four envelopes and write the name for them. That's all I need to know. Do you want to pick out of a hat or do you want to do four envelopes that are envelopes? Looks a little Have them prepared for next meeting. It is next meeting. Okay. No, we've already determined that we weren't going to do it until November meeting. Okay. Okay. So, should I withdraw that motion? Yeah. Not that we

I mean I guess a good motion would be all four applicants have met our standards. We would like to do a lottery at our next meeting uh with four plain white envelopes and we will have somebody that is not involved a second your motion pick. So what what what I'm saying my my interpretation is that we present them the slate then they give us a go ahead to pick someone. I I think the last time that this happened, which was almost 15 years ago, yeah, we did a pick and then presented the selectman with our info and our pick and they approved the final.

But I kind of agree with Chris that maybe it's I think is what you're saying. They should maybe eliminate someone before you choose someone. No, because they don't have to pick us. I mean, you're making an extra step that doesn't need to be. There's an extra step if you if you do it that way. If we just if it's a lottery, it's a lottery. This way it doesn't go back. Committee is here because selectman, not all of them have the expertise of you folks from being on and around the water. So they they respect your guys's opinion. They're going to say that this group

this group has looked through these and done their due diligence and I I agree with the way you did it. I'm just the paragraph reads that doesn't say we pick in the lottery system before we present it to them. There there's nothing in the language that does that. We could you didn't mention the lottery system altogether. It's on the 8.89. That's new or expanded operators.

Well, you might want to read it for the whole group. So on before September 30th any year, the select board will advertise for proposals to be submitted for consideration by potential new passenger vessel operators as well as proposed additional vessels or proposed higher passenger capacity replacement vessels by presented approved operators to fill any vacancies which have been created at the Northeast Harbor Marina. Proposals must meet all criteria as outlined in this document and be submitted on application for approval to operate from Northeast Harbor Marina. Selection of new operators, additional vessels or higher capacity capacity replacement vessels will be on a space available basis and will be turned by a lottery system if the number of acceptable proposals exceeds the operating space available. All new or expanded operators be required to enter into contracts in this ordinance.

That sounds to me like John is interpreting it correctly and that we do this lottery system and then give it to them and they make the final. If we send these four to the select money, they're going to look at them and go, "Okay, I agree, but they have to see all the applicants." They they will they'll get a list of, you know, when I do my memo, they'll get a list of all the the four and and that we did a lottery and and chose this particular one.

Yeah. It's just it's vague in the ordinance what the lottery becomes where it becomes before that. But but but before the lottery is listed, if you went through the process, that is second to what's this previous. So if you follow the ordinance in the step by-step process, they're saying this has to be done first and then you do the lottery system. So maybe when we're doing the resident priority, we maybe clean that up a little bit too. That's a legal question. That's beyond the whole thing would be and you know well I think we're all set for right now. So motion by Jones to approve the applicants. Yeah. And seconded by bright

and we'll make the choice November meeting. November meeting white envelope or whatever. That's the second piece. Our meeting falls on Veterans Day. Uh, so we've either got to meet on Monday or Wednesday. Well, I suggest we meet Monday. Yeah. Doesn't matter to me. Check the calendar real quick. Holiday read aloud in a lot of years.

All right. So, runs have a climate action people have this room from 4 to 6 on Monday. planning board has it from 6 to 9 on Wednesday. So, Wednesday would that I probably have a site visit before that. I'm not sure if I do. All I see is planning board 6 to 9. Yeah. Let's meet on Wednesday and Wednesday the put that in your minutes. Yep. Next meeting Wednesday the 12th at 4:30. I can't make it. I can't make it. We'll have the climate figured out by hold it against you.

Didn't just give you a check mark. Okay. Excused. General issues. Anybody have anything old business? I want to bring up with something that's going to lead to some discussion. We always do. No. the fisherman's float. We're going to proceed with restricting it to 18. We actually are scheduled to have that conversation at our November meeting. Okay. I wait. That's what we decided at our last meeting. We discussion in November. Yeah.

Uh just for an update on that from you folks, I have the 3x 6 foot float 95% complete. Uh, I run two boards short today and Adam's gonna pick them up the next day and u maybe in a I think the next few weeks we should have it in place. It's the exclus exclusiveness. Well, this always abuses and uh that's what causes all the trouble. Yeah. Um I did see you did that over in Bartlett's Landing. You put the tea. Yeah,

the tea helped. Uh, but it still it kept bigger boats out of there, but it still allows 30 something foot boats to squeak in. Yeah. But yes, it did. Well, it kept the it kept Yeah. from swinging around on that face of that boat is what we're trying to do. Speaking of the dumpster, it's worked a lot better since it's been moved. Yeah. No, I think it's worked out well. I've met with Brian and a contractor over there to put out a give us a bid for fencing it in, but nothing has come back as of yet.

Or could it stay where it is permanently? I think that's the intent. The highway department has already extended the the hot top to make room for where it would sit so we don't lose only we only lose one parking spot in the process. But yes, actually didn't lose any. They added on with the dumpster. We're still going to end up losing one one spot. So, we're not going to put it where it used to be. Probably getting

it. I think with the the congestion in there and the garbage truck is larger than getting bigger and bigger and it safer and it has worked out much better over in that location. is a lot less out of town residents using it. I believe with it being over there. It's not the problem. I noticed a couple couple times, you know, coming up from the float there, people off their boats not knowing where to go and well, this looks good enough and just dropping it. We we did have a lot of questions. Did the dumpster disappear? And you know,

we just had to redirect. The other thing, John, on the weekends when our whoever's doing Do you guys empty the trash, the cans? Yeah, we uh we do uh Monday through Friday. The buildings and grounds position uh does it first thing in the morning and we grab them if they overflow during the day. On the weekends, uh the garbage men actually roll through when they come down to dump the dumpsters and and they do them. Uh as last weekend was our last weekend, so we're not physically on site Saturdays and Sundays through the winter from here on out.

But uh they were overflowing last weekend and nobody they they will actually be disappearing this week. We'll put them to bed. The building closed as of today. It's the season. Uh, the garbage cans will disappear this week. Pump out will be put to bed this week. Um, picnic tables will disappear early November. Yeah. No, it looked I don't think she did as good a job as the guy that used to be there. She She did a good job. She did, but could have done a little better weed whacking around stuff.

Oh, yes. Go ahead, Chris. What was the results of the ground penetrating radar in Seal Harbor? Uh, it is actually going to be on the selectman's agenda on Monday night to approve the expenditure. So, as long as they bless it um sometime in late October, early November, it will happen. It will require one or two days where that facility will have to be coned off up at the road and there won't be any parking down there for that day. And why do they have to approve it? Expend the money out of a CIP line.

What's our total? We're not allowed to spend any amount without their approval. Not out of a CIP. We can't spend one penny one penny out of a CIP line without their approval. Gotcha. We have and that was from the Seal Harbor Pier. That is Seal Harbor Pier and there's close to $80,000 in there. I don't know the exact Maybe they could get bathrooms over there. Uh the concrete has been Sorry, the concrete has been done. The conduit and the electricity are all there. So the the actual restrooms will

still really I mean it's disgraceful in my opinion. I was over there the other day, Friday, and it's all done. Just in time for winter. Yeah, just in time for when they um do the parking lot, they're going to do the the pier, too. They're going to do the whole work. We're splitting the cost 5050 between us and public works. It's right around $20,000 for us and the whole project. The whole project, a little over 10,000 us. We split it 5050. So, the the Steel Harbor Yach Club is going to move their building. Yes. And are they keeping their dock there?

I haven't heard anything or seen anything about the dock moving, but the building itself is going to be go up and come a little closer to us. Right. But if I would think you would have if they because that would totally impact our dock. Yep. No, I don't think they are moving the dock at all. That's my thought anyways. They have come to me and showed me where they were moving the building, but I didn't see anything about the pier. Yeah, they know more. Not really. No, not at this point. Okay. Thank you very much.

Got a motion. Motion to a Can I ask just a couple questions? Absolutely. I've got uh I asked John about cameras. Is there any chance of looking into putting some cameras over at SHO? I have that conversation frequently with the uh the security camera guy and it uh there's no internet down there at the pier. Uh if we can get internet down there at the pier, then yes. Could you ask him about cellular?

We tried cellular over at Bartletts and it didn't work because AT&T and uh Verizon or US Cellular would open the ports that it's over my head, but they wouldn't open the ports for us that would allow us to be able to view from uh from there. What about our yacht club's Wi-Fi? Yeah. Have you Has anyone reached out to them? They haven't. We haven't. I haven't. I think it'd be mutual beneficial. Sure. Especially if you offered to

Would love to have cameras over there. We do have cameras at Bartletts, but you have to go over there and physically log in with a laptop. I can do wirelessly from the truck, but there's no way to broadcast. And do you do like monthly data grabs off that camera?

I don't. They they hold months and months of data. U that is a that it' be something because there's a lot of going on over there this year. There was a guy with a at the skiff float with a 22 foot boat 150 horse outboard and he said I got a boat. They won't let me have any more. I'm using my boat. Well, how do you you know there was one guy came from Cranberry Island. I washed him with 11 bags of garbage. Put it up in the Sure. you know, and and uh there just stuff. If they had a camera, maybe something could be done about it.

Definitely. And and like you said, I would love to be able to look on a C. I can look on my phone from home and see Northeast all the cameras. Um it's it's saved us millions and millions of dollars because everyone on this committee was sued for $10 million. And if it wasn't for those cameras down there, that wouldn't have just disappeared like it did. They they saved our ass. That girl got hurt. Yes. And it wasn't our fault. And the cameras clearly showed it. So they didn't hear that. Oh, you didn't know? Oh, yeah. You did? Yeah, you did. Oh, yeah. The woman that was hurt on the lobster boat off lobster. You offered the cockpit for us.

The crates all fell down on all the cars. You got a packet just like every one of us that showed that you didn't want to talk about it. Disgusting. I don't even I don't even remember that I don't remember it happening. I don't remember getting a packet about it. I didn't package. We don't we talked about um a year or so ago if we find a better way to put brands in just has a better way more

this year it was real late getting there was a float there but there was no way to get to it no ramp and um this was the year where we did the expans mansion and put this No, it was the the skip float was there, but there was no way to we nobody could use that boat until what was it the middle of the end of May? Sure. And uh but have you thought about leaving the main float there to why why drag it off? Why not just leave it there? I think it would I think it would get absolutely rimracked over

Well, I mean, take take the other one off, but the main float because they were there ever since I was a kid. We they were there all winter. We didn't have a ramp. They hadn't I mean it' be it would save a little bit then in the spring check it out and put the ramps on and we we discussed and I think it would about the not the late and he said it's due to contractors and it's in the minutes. He said he and we asked to have it in by May 1st of the year and it's in the minutes. He said do everything possible to do it this next year. Yeah. Yeah. As a contractor we'll wait to put the dinghy dock in and that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Good. All right. What have we got to do about it?

I I think the uh I think the floats would take unnecessary abuse if we left them there. Well, yeah. Maybe we used to remove the dinghy dock, too, and we agreed to leave that one there. And my fault. I should have had that ramp on the dinghy dock because that can go on as soon as the weather breaks. Yeah. And then then we can we can wait a few weeks on the other. Yeah. that that's on me. Uh but next next spring we will make sure we get that one on as soon as the weather breaks and we see that it looks like it. All right.

Thank you. Would you like a motion about looking into other options for security? I I've been looking Well, you know, I never considered buming Wi-Fi off the Seal Harbor Yacht Club. So, you know, if you want to put something in the minutes, I I will we don't have to make a motion. If you want I will look into it and it's a good idea, but um maybe make a report next week. I've actually been trying to get Wi-Fi or not Wi-Fi, but cameras at Bartletts and Seal for for years and the Wi-Fi has been the problem. We tried Bartletts first and when we run into that roadblock, we kind of stopped because we hadn't figured it out. But as long as you have power, you could use Starlink too. There's no,

right? And that cost you the same as Sure. no reason not to. But even if it was just if you stored it and had to if something happened, look back and say, "Hey, what happened?" You know, anything would be better than nothing. that doesn't work is Starling. The only

other issue that I see losing that building down there hurts because, you know, you got to have something for that equipment to be in. Uh they can stainless steel box, you know, some of it, but uh you know, the router and stuff for the Starlink and all that. Um, you need something for that safe and dry for that to to be in year round, not just in the summer. Even though it's broken pace with the through hole, you know, even though it's basically shut down in the winter, it still be appropriate to be able to look at it.

Starlink involved in it. Uh, we haven't used Starlink, but all you need is power and sights of the sky. point to the southwest tool line and that's perfect. What about one of S's harbor? I always forget about S's harbor. No, we're not forgetting a home at all. Talk to the landing corporation. Yeah, we've been ostracized. Yeah. Even being a participant up there. Yes. Bunch of snobs.

Totally. You want to leave your pickup truck down there? Oh, and get code. John, um, I'll tell you right now, all that garbage that comes from this Bo Zuckerman. I have actually caught that gentleman in the process before and shut him down and he ended up loading it back on his boat and taking it back. But I'm sure later that day when nobody Yes. bring it over instead of meeting the schedule in Cranberry Island like have to go down. construction garbage garbage instead of taking it to the transfer station on on Isisles twice a week.

So I have shut him down before but I'm assuming that you know the next time when nobody's there he did it anyways. So I think they're pretty regular actually. Yep. That's part of down here too. Uh we're updating our cameras down here and and one of them will have the ability to potentially uh watch the the new dumpster setup. Get a license plate.

Yeah. Not only that, even that, you know, some of the fishermen will have bring up pales of oil. They I mean, I saw one with no cover on it. I don't know how you can spill it right to the top. If the rains that go that I mean that is their fault, too. not just, you know, people on the hill. Okay guys, I think we've covered everything pretty good. Motion to adjurnn. So moved. Seconded. Second. All in favor? Raise your hand. Thank you. Dallas. My fault. Doug was trying to get in and I didn't see the let Doug in thing.

Oh, Doug was here. Okay. So, John, I just wrote committee discussed camera options. We'll give him a so if you can look or we can bring it up another time or Yeah, I know. I I would reach out to the uh that would be the cheapest thing to do if he wasn't