Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. And then we'll get right into roll call. Commissioner Bole here. Commissioner Oler present. Commissioner Johnson um excused. Called in. Commissioner Murray uh here present. Commissioner Zaro here. Vice Chair Whan also called in excused and I am Vice Chair Elliot or sorry Chair Elliott demoting myself today apparently. Um any additions, deletions or corrections to tonight's agenda? Nope. All right. Uh any public participation? All right. Then we will get into the approval of minutes. Um May 14th, there was one minor revision from the previous meeting. So yeah, quick comments on the minutes. Um so May 14th was corrected um that it added open other open spaces to the short pl um definition. And then um there uh I right before I got here I realized that the June 11th um at the top for call to order still had Vice Chair Whan instead of Chair Elliot. So that has been corrected on my copy of the draft. So they should both hopefully be good to go. Okay. Um do I have a motion to approve the minutes of May 14th, 2025? Um motion to approve the minutes. All right. All right. Motion has been made and seconded for the approval of minutes of May 14th, 2025. All those in favor?

I. Any opposed? Right. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes from June 11th, 2025? Do we need to uh alter them? My copy is altered if you would like to see it. Oh, no. No, it it's good. I just didn't know if it was Yeah, I brought a draft, but I didn't No, no, that's copies. Uh I uh make a motion to approve the Wednesday, June 11th, 2025 City of Milton Planning Commission minutes. Second. All right, a motion has been made and seconded. Um if there's no discussion, take vote. All those in favor? I I. All those opposed. Right. minutes for June 11th and May 15th have been approved. That takes us right into regular agenda items 6A um which is comp plan annual update items. I'll turn it over to staff. Thank you, chair. Um so 6A and 6B are um related. So we are allowed to once a year update the comprehensive plan. Um so we have a couple little items that um staff is presenting to be part of the 2025 annual update of the comprehensive plan. Um the first one or the only one for the comp plan I get sorry there's two items for the comp plan. first would be to um every year public works updates their capital improvement plans for water, storm, electric, and everything. Um and so ideally we would then take their updated numbers and schedule and put that into the comp plan six-year capital improvement projects and funding sources. That ensures that we have the

best chance to get um grants and stuff because they're always going to look is it in your comp plan and is it in your other planning documents. So, I will work with um the public works department to get those updated. My hope is to have those updates and bring this all back next month for the hearing. The second item um on page eight is that the fire department has been slowly buying property because they are going to build a fire station within the city of Milton. Um we had talked about making this change last year, but they weren't sure yet. um which prop they were still looking at buying properties. They weren't sure if they were going to try to do a joint facility with the city and so we sort of held off. They are for sure um going to build at this location and they did um purchase some additional properties. So in order for them to actually be allowed by comp plan and zoning, we do need to change both of those. So the map on page eight shows what would become community facilities. Um so that is what is included in the comprehensive plan update. Um and so if there was anything else um that the planning commission had you know I I also figure I'll go through not that we necessarily have to do a formal approval of it but I will do um I think there's been a few little like typos and different things that we've identified. So, I'll try to do an update of all that, too, if there's anything. But, if you happen to see something in the next week or two that you feel like might be either a correction or something you feel like, hey, this we needed a policy that we missed or something or some um that could be brought back. Again, we could do it once a year, but we can only do it once a year outside of like an emergency situation for utilities or something.

So, I don't know if there's any discussion on that. I'll leave that. That's the end of my presentation. Okay, great. Um, so yeah, I guess I'll open it up for discussion. Anyone have any comments? Question. Um, is this blue highlighted section, is that all they'll be purchasing or do you think we'll have to do this again? This is supposed to be all that they are purchasing. Okay. Um, they've we've had a pre-application meeting with them that they um have a design. it will look like all their other stations. Um, except they are looking at, this is extra knowledge, but they are hoping to actually also have a a training facility on the back end since this one they'll have a little more room. And so this should be it's kind of why we were holding off. This should be um all that they're purchasing. Um for future um is there any improve process improvements that you would see as far as um allowing them to purchase properties that are outside of that zone so that we don't have to do the community facilities adjustment when I don't want to do something or if there's a way we can make that process easier for fire department school um community use that like they're allowed to build in these zones But so the alternative would be so if you didn't Yeah. So the the challenge with the comprehensive plan is you can only change it once a year. Um zoning you can change more often. Um so the alternative would be if in the zoning code we allowed fire stations or emergency service stations or schools in those zones. So if they were allowed in a residential zone or allowed in a commercial zone, then we wouldn't have to change the zone in order for them to build. Yeah. Okay. So that and I did sort of like

go through the which is the easiest best alternative in this case. Um all of our others though are labeled, you know, all the city property, the schools, they're all community facilities. So it seemed like that was more what we've done historically. Okay. So I have a kind of question there. This is directly adjacent and actually part of the building that Canon Electric is occupying. Is that right? It's the property next to it. Okay. So they don't share a wall. It just appears to just property lines. the so the property that's along that's the Canon electric their parking lot is behind their building then there's the property line and then there's this property okay and uh Commissioner Bole you have a question thank you do they is this normal that somebody would come in and buy a bunch of land and then I guess they would request the zoning. They're doing it the right way. Do do you ever get where it it's like they're rolling the dice where people could be like, "No way." You know, well, I mean, think about it. A lot of pe you know, I look at having a fire station nearby as a positive. Yet, my daughter lives in downtown Palip and the fire trucks are going by constantly. Some people would think maybe that is a negative. And so I was wondering if the fire department is kind of rolling the dice a little bit. I guess it they are, but it's they are. Um I I assume they were taking into account that their understanding is that the city council wants a fire station and they have been these properties. I think the majority of these properties they they've owned for oh years. Yeah. They just bought some of the ones on a

lot. They just sort of bought a few more. So yeah, there is a little bit of Okay, I but I hope everyone supports this. I Yeah, I was just thinking, you know, cart before the horse, but uh yeah. No. Um, and the other question I had is, is this something that we kind of want to rush into or do do we save this six-month period coming up for any other changes that might come along for I mean, you can't see in the future, but I see you've got a couple items on here, but yeah. So the only so for like for private applications if it you know if a developer was looking at it or there um our window for that is between I think yeah it's like end of January through March and so that window is closed. So anything that came in now we would just say okay it'll be part of next year's um this one because it's one that we've been talking with the fire department for I felt like we'd already as a city in intake you know did an intake and it's community facilities and stuff. Um I will again it's our I will add the the second piece of this which is item 6B is the zoning part of that. So again we'll need to change the zoning. Um just to kind of give you the idea of what my thinking is there is um again change it to community facilities. Um it would be we need to add it to the use table because it doesn't cleanly say fire department or you know um but I my suggestion will be that we do it as a conditional use permit because obviously um that allows it's a much higher level of review and that allows um the neighborhood meeting and the public hearing and a much you know it allows us to do conditions

because it is going to affect that diff neighborhood differently than most objects. So that's the second half of this is that yes, you know, my my recommendation is that we we change the comp plan map, we change the zoning map to the right zone, but we allow it with the conditional use permit process, which is that higher level. Uh last question. Um is our 2025 comp plan complete and been sent to the state and then sent back and Yeah. So our tech even though we adopted in January 2025, it's the 2024. Um yes, we um we actually just got So I apologize. I should have sent that to you guys. I sent we sent it to council, but I should have sent it to P please Pierce County. Sorry. I should have sent it to the planning commission. The Puget Sound Regional Council did um do their approval of it, which is usually the hardest um because they're looking at it for does the traffic and all and do you agree with the other cities and stuff. So, we did get our certification from the Puet Sound Regional Council. Um it's been submitted to the state. Um so, and yeah, they they've taken it. So, yeah. So, we did great. Thank you. Yes, I I'm so torn because on the one hand, who doesn't want better fire facilities in the town of Milton? Um, updated ones. That's that's great. The only thing that kind of pains me is that this is kind of another step away from what we hoped this area would be, which was like kind of a little little neighborhoody kernel for Milton where people could live, work, hang out, have coffee, maybe go shopping kind of thing. You know, that little neighborhood feel. It's kind of another step away from that with the business

right there and then the fire station. But on the other hand, I I'm not anti-fire station. It's just this is kind of hard for me to wrap my head around for that reason alone. It's kind of a pity that we don't have, you know, now we'll have Meridian and kind of down here by Triangle Park. It's like another chunk away from that. Yeah. Restaurant, you know, community meeting space. meet your friends, have coffee, feel. That's my That's my only It's kind of a big thing that's holding me back. You would have liked it to have been located someplace else. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. I I would say that I think this gives good measures for like with the conditional use permit where maybe we start looking into more of a roundabout there for traffic calming and that because it's kind of a blind corner especially if now you've got fire trucks pulling out. But I've been to a lot of like small town events where then the fire department's out. They're able to roll up their doors and have kids and then it becomes that much more of a continuation of the park right there too. So it gets people kind of traversing up and down when we have Milton days or something like that. They're rolling up the doors. Be nice if we could get a little extra parking for some of those events or something like that, too. Um and then with our design standards, we can start looking into or making some of those requests on how we might like that to look and feel and maybe set the tone for we're kind of playing that Oldtown vibe last meeting. I know it's kind of a hoping to get visioning and that they're on board because things aren't quite in place yet. But I do think that there'd

be some fun opportunities for like branding this zone if that makes sense. So the plan would be to hold the public hearing at the next meeting. Okay. Assuming that I get all of the stuff I need for this six-year tip. Okay. For both the transportation, all those. Um, and then if everyone's comfortable, we could vote on it next month if for some reason it needs, you know, there's always that option to push it off. But that would be my idea is to have the public hearing and then it would go to council for final. Yeah. Um, I'm in favor of a public hearing next month just so that it's one step further in the process. That doesn't mean we have to take it to council that very meeting, but um, is checking for consensus. Is that okay with everyone? Yes. Uh I was hoping to get input. Uh Commissioner Roller brought up a good point about, you know, there's different ways to look at this property and uh obviously the fire department's already bought it. Uh but um I would like to hear from uh other two commissioners and possibly the public hearing before I'd hope people come out uh and let us know what they think because it's kind of a one of those things where I'm you know hey somebody bought the property they intend to do this shouldn't necessarily stop them especially when it's a public service. Um, and you're right, we don't even I mean technically we have a fire station here, but it's really all we have in city of Milton. Um, so that would be my deal. And then the other thing is, uh, don't we normally, uh, well, I always suggest that we skip the August meeting because it's three days before Milton days, but uh, if we have to work, we have to work. That's we were kind of discussing before the meeting that just bringing it up. It's not I'll be

here if you say I have to be here. We were discussing maybe is it we think it's October is when there's that the um craft bazaar that we're going to have to move the meeting because of the craft bazaar. So that might be a good month to take a break. But do you need prep time before before mountain days? get manscaped. Whiskey and honey is my secret. Yeah. Um we'll make sure to discuss what meetings towards the very end, but um as far as whatever date our next meeting is, I think um it's always nice to get the public hearing out so that people have the opportunity to provide some input and then we still are meeting our timeline to um have further discussion or include them. I think another thing to discuss is now this leaves like that one little red tail just below the community facilities and just if that still makes sense or what that property is. So we may want to drive by there and see if we take that off or if we Yeah. Is that a driveway? So there's one property that's just south of the new blue. This yellow one back here. This one red parcel. Oh, the red parcel. Okay. Yeah. There's one red There's one red parcel. like that just south that one. And then there's a driveway coming this way. I think that's a driveway anyway. Yeah. So, we may just want to drive by and peek at that and see if it makes sense to tweak that. One of those properties was for sale recently, but it I think it might be a couple lots down and it was like a access road that went back and it's that older red house back there. Okay. It's an easement to that house. Okay. I think it's a couple houses down though south of the that red one. Okay.

All right. Well, there's not really a lot of action on that one. So, I think checking aial maps and just um Do you want me to go to 6B? Yes, please. Okay. Okay. So again 6B um obviously um as I previously said part of that so technically zoning code you can do multiple times a year. Um it is um my history is usually to do sort of um if you're doing a comp plan update a lot of times maybe there's a companion zoning update that's more just some smaller miscellaneous things kind of as an annual thing versus like you know when we do all of the parking or all you know other things it was like a whole big chunk. This is more like if there's a few things that aren't necessarily changing the the policy or the mindset, it's more correcting or clarifying. Um that's my suggestion to do sort of what I call the annual zoning update as well. Um so just a couple little things that um so again adding the fire facilities as a conditional use permit under so I'm going to do number two real quick um under community facilities on page nine. And then um for some again these are things that I'm thinking I don't know if that was what the thinking was at the time but um if vehicle repair um business again I mean we may we're going to hopefully have a sub area plan on the in the business area but we allow a lot of other similar things and it seems odd that vehicle repair wasn't included in that. So, we can look at that and see if that should be added back in just for the business area. Um, we do allow auto sales and a lot of times auto sales and auto repair kind of go hand in hand. So, that was one that again just came out as I have people talk to me. Um, jumping back up to number one. Again, this is just a clarification as people are starting to look at at what an accessory

dwelling unit is. They're starting to ask questions. there's sort of this um okay, what's the difference between an an accessory dwelling unit and a tiny home? Well, tiny homes again are just our term that could be an ADU if it's a permanent structure on a permanent foundation, but tiny homes can also just be rolling RVs that look more like a home that are the box shape. And so um having had this discussion a little bit with people and trying myself I felt like um if we want to just add in the definition the idea so that a current definition says means a smaller independent residential dwelling unit located on the same lot as a principal unit. Um my suggestion is just we just the part in red is just say and meets all of the codes of a permanent structure because that's the idea is that it's a permanent thing that meets the permanent code. And then um three um again something that just sort of came up as um as I was as I'm trying to enforce things and I get questions is when we talked about um temporary signs. We said that temporary signs on private property have if they're saying the same thing have to be 100 feet apart. But we actually didn't say that for the portion that's in the rightway. And it seems like our intent was probably the same idea that if you're saying the same thing um you should be spread out. Okay. Now I think the way I so I said along the same property line so like you know if if the lots are only 75 ft wide then each property can have a sign. Um but you can't put five signs. Um not this election but the last election. And I know there were some ones on 99 where somebody put like 20 signs in front of one vacant property and I was like, "Oh, it doesn't really say that I can make them spread it out." So, that's those

are just two small little corrections that I thought would help my make my job easier. Um, and then obviously again changing the actual physical map. So, those are my only things for like the annual zoning update that would just go along with the map update. So, so again, if there's any thing that you happen to see clean up, but I would bring it back with the same idea as a public second or second public hearing and then go from there. Okay, great. So, this is really justformational. Is there any um Yeah, unless there's any comments, that's just saying what I and you know, if you disagree with any of that offhand or have questions on that, but that's just what I'm again, those are the only things I see that I don't think that changes the intent. I think it just helps me administer the intent a little better. Okay. Um, just throwing out there, are there any other items that people have noticed since our last update? Okay, perfect. All right. And then just if you guys peruse through, please make sure to just give staff any comments over the next couple weeks. Think of something or you have questions. Obviously, I'm cool. And then so 6C um so that it's so last month um the planning commission kind of started talking about the idea of um design standards in our various districts. Um what I came away from the direction I came away from was to sort of start by focusing on um commercial type buildings. um the MC which includes the mixed use and then multif family. So what I have tonight is simply I took what we currently have in our uptown design for commercial. So I I just took the commercial mixeduse end and and not dealing with the multif family yet. But

what I tried to do is sort of just chunk out each section highlighting what the um what the intent of that section is. So again, starting on 13 for pedestrian walkways, the intent is to implement the vision and comprehensions of a district-wide integrated walking system. And then it also had that also the idea of making throughblock connections. So that and so my lovely little picture says when you don't give nice little pedestrian, people make their own. Um and then the second half is the stamp. Again, these are um unless it's in red. If it's in blue, it's coming from our current document that just applies to um Meridian and kind of comes in to about uptown coffee. This sort of governs that area. So, the question is this is the great base to start with that we can use for the rest of the commercial areas we have or maybe even the industrial areas, mixed use areas. Um and so and then I didn't each one of these has like subsets of actual like you know specific it shall be this high or this wide or you can use this type of window or that kind of so I I left those out kind of focusing more on um so a little bit more of the higher level. So this seemed like the best way to start is just, you know, hopefully everyone had a chance maybe to look through it. Maybe they after we talk about it, you look, you know, you think about it through the next is does this make sense to use this for the other areas? Is there anything we want to expand or do you feel like any of this is just too much? Like this is just overkill. Um, and so I'll just kind of zip through real quick. I, like I said, I made a few comments in red. Um, obviously when it comes to pedestrian walkways, I'll review. Right now, we have specific numbers of how wide it has to be and how

this and that. I'll make sure that we're doing whatever's current, you know, that um, and we're it's probably five feets usually, but sometimes seven makes sense. So, I didn't put those in specifically, but obviously they would have that. Um, and then I kind of made com. So yeah, back you know, we don't really have a purpose in that section. So again on page 12, I kind of gave an idea of maybe what the purpose could be. Um so applicability again on page 12 backing up just a smidge is like I said right now this is for in uptown zones. So the idea would be we would um would we want it to be then an uptown anything that's the commercial mixed use and then multifamily um would have its own similar set. And so for applicability right now we do it for new buildings if they're adding on basically the floor area is getting bigger if they're reconfiguring a parking lot aside from simply putting in something like a required ADA or if they're remodeling 25% or more of the facade area. So, I know um one of the things that Commissioner Whan has thought about and um asked us to consider is would there ever be so what if they are just 100% remodeling on the inside? Is there a threshold that would require them to update the outside? So right now they only have to do the outside as if they're doing the facade or they're doing the parking lot. Some of the idea being is like if you look at the Safeway complex there is no internal sidewalks unless they're putting in a new building. So is there something that would trigger you know if Safeway is totally redoing everything would we trigger them? Is there or is there something like we say okay you know what within 10 years you

need to put in internal I mean there are things you can do like that you can say hey this is the new standard most of the time you don't retroactive but sometimes you do and you give them a timeline you say okay within 10 years we want you to have some sort of internal sidewalk thing so those are some things to think about yeah I'm thinking about that I'm thinking about that that's we're talking about sidewalks along the driveways because there really aren't right Now, so like if you were to walk there, you're not you're walking along along a sidewalk until you get to the driveway and then you're walking with people who are really intent on moving in and out of that parking lot. So, we're talking about sidewalks like that. Correct. Safe travel from your parking spots to your Yeah. So, from the the actual rideway sidewalks to the buildings, maybe the buildings to some of the parking spots. And there are ways that that can be done which you'll you know some of the things you'll see is it doesn't always necessarily mean building sidewalks. It could be simply changing the color of certain things making it so that there's some pedestrian awareness. So, um that is one thing I know that we've had discussions on staff public works of is is there ways that we could force those sort of um strip mall commercial areas that have been there a long long time to sort of upgrade some of those pedestrian things just for safety. And yeah, more and more people are riding bikes, more and more people are walking. As we build the sidewalk systems within the whole city, that's going to allow that. So, um, that can be something we can think on. I'm for anything that forces them to do the right thing. Is there a map anywhere in the city? Sorry if I stepped on to No, go for it. Um, a map somewhere that someone has of the sidewalks and currently in the city with

the Yes, our comprehensive plan has a map of the sidewalks in the traffic section. Um, but I can get one specifically. sent one out for everybody. Yeah, I I just for reference is all nothing urgent. Um so then again just kind of zipping through this before you zip further make sure we were kind of talking about you know updating sidewalks and bike ability. Is there a way or an area section to include like mandatory bike locking stations for businesses that are in these kind of commercial buildings? Thinking of like the Safeway. I know we talked um at I think it was a city council meeting or something years ago about with the new public library they're having they have a bike lock but it was in the back side of the building and it's like that's not not is not as accessible in the back or noticeable that it's back there. People are coming to the front side front side with all the other businesses. Is there a way like you know if you have x amount of parking spots you need three places to park a bike or something. Is there a section that we could maybe look at? So, yeah. So, design is the perfect section for that. What we're doing now, um, we did last year when, um, the planning commission updated our site plan requirements, um, review requirements. We sort of threw in a you have to consider bike with at least a placeholder to make them start thinking about that, but it's not there's nothing real specific of what that means. So yes, this would be the place and and the the opportunity to think through how yeah do we want a specific like you said for every so many parking spaces you have to do so many

if it is depending on maybe depending on what time of business this is the type of B you know is it just the the little tie your thing to it or an actual like locker or um yes so those are definitely things that we can um look into more. Okay. I know it's something we we've brought up with um the park redesign right now currently is you know do we man mandatory have a mandatory bike lock in all of our parks as well. So just trying to incorporate that with our city use to really just kind of push people the to encourage them I should say. And to confirm are you talking about the bike lockers or you talking about bike racks? But just a bike simple, you know, like the little bike locks, just something to kind of park a bike, lock it up with a chain or U- lock. Okay. Not a locker. Yeah. Not necessarily. Bike lockers. Uh Tacoma, they put something in and then it turned into a whole deal as far as because they said bike lockers. Yeah. That people then you had egress issues as far as people being able to lock themselves into them or lock others into them. And and no, my brain was just going to like the little Okay. I mean those only make sense a place like Tacoma station anyway for developers but I love that idea. Yeah, totally do. Okay. So yeah, it's like I appreciate your conscious of where because I mean not to throw out my personal stories, but my daughter who does not drive and has an ebike um one of a store that she locked it up, it got stolen from. And I think a huge part of it is here's the entrance, here's the bicycle locks, and there, you know, technically it's in the front, but it's it's not where the traffic is. And so I think it was really easy for someone to pull up with a truck, go click, click, click, toss in and go. So you do have to think through where they go to make them safe as well. Yeah. And I think that was the with the the library was I think it was council

member Cedar brought it up because the bike one is in the back side of the building and it's just not it's space for it but it's not practical. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. I think that's a great addition. Uh any other comments so far? Yeah. Question real quick. You might get to this, but as I was um looking over it, there's a few instances. Um for example, on page 19 number four, um the last sentence is roof mounted screening techniques include but are not limited to colon. And then there's two pictures of dumpsters. So yeah, that's why I said like there's a lot of these where there is a another subsection of ABCDS and eats that I left off. Oh, okay. So, okay. You know, so it would have had like, you know, it's listing specific types that you could use exemp specific examples. Um the dumpsters are just letting you know like here here's one that went does well when you're screening all of your dumpsters and here's one that does not screen well. So, right. Um, okay. That answers a lot of my confusion there. Thank you. Yeah. So, yeah. So, just sort of again kind of and please, yeah, either stop me or I can stop every so often and see um on page 14. Um it talks about um stair design which again we talked about that if you don't put you know if you have a a mall that or maybe have you know a mall here and some commercial stuff here but you have no connections if it's up a hill or if it's um just flat people will make trails so you should think ahead. Um so it talks about stairs which makes sense because stairs are the direct path. Um, I do I I was thinking um if it should somehow be updated to using a pathway whenever possible because anybody can use a path. Not

everyone can use stairs and and that's not anymore. It's not just ADA. It's also strollers and and stuff. So I was thinking maybe you know adding some wording of at least consider again we can do that fine line of you need to somehow meet the intent and but maybe you have to at least consider and and demonstrate if you can't use a path why um even though it may take you a little bit longer or something or at least contemplate both. I mean the zoo that's the picture from the zoo they do a great job of stairs and pathways and now with wagons. Wagons are big. Yeah. Oh yeah. I just I recognize those stairs though. Yeah, I tried to take stuff a lot of these from places I've been or I like um again slope treatment just the idea that instead of having a solid wall, you make them put in something. Um bridge did this to an extent. It's not, you know, it's still pretty large, but we did they did break it up a little bit. Um public spaces and plazas. Again, these are all things we we've done. Um, this is actually in Walaw Wala. Um, I'm pretty sure one of these places I used to eat my lunch at when I worked in Walaw Wala. It was really nice to just kind of go a couple blocks and be able to sit outside. Um, if you I I didn't get the pictures in time for this, but um, both Bigfoot Java and interestingly enough, the car wash have really nice little plaza kind of things. um the formally other coffee shop um drive a pizza that's going to eventually be a pizza which is getting closer. Um it's not quite as nice but it does have a little bit there too. So um again are we is that are we wanting those? Is there any improvements to those? That kind of thing. Obviously it's you know talks

about if you're doing site furnishings that kind of thing. So, quick pause. Any questions about stairs or slope treatments or kind of accessibility comments on that? Um, not necessarily, but like with the slope treatments, how just with the pictures, I I just love how it's incorporating vegetation, trees, if that's something that to either include in this section or I know we talked about it at last meeting, really going into like a landscapeheavy kind of section of trees and parking lots having little islands and things like that. So, you know, just seeing that picture there made me think of bringing that back into that conversation of, you know, if you have slopes, is it just dirt versus something else there? It does feel like um it might be worth rolling in a lot of the landscaping, taking it out of our landscaping section and rolling it into the design. Um, and maybe the the landscaping section is more about tree retention and different things because a lot of this Yeah. It's there's a lot of this about buffers and trees and plants and stuff. Yeah. Like like when we're talking about the public space and plazas like you know do we have x number of trees per square feet or you know I think I there's just a lot of room to kind of incorporate and add in a landscaping feel to bring vegetation, earth, trees. just dirt. So, it's not concrete, but um I think there's just a lot of room that we can add a bullet point in a lot of these different sections to bring that in tight together. Love it. Yeah. And then moving into public place, public spaces, plazas or site furnishings. Any comments or questions? I have a general question about um

language. Do you find that the use of the word should and encouraging them to do something um actually encourages them to do it? So um what we discussed last month which I think Oh. Yeah. So which I should have I could have included that sheet. Um so yes we the somewhere in here will be language that says the shall um must is they have to. Yes. I think I saw it. Yeah. So the idea would be for these is that intent would be that you have to create like for public spaces you have to create usable accessible and inviting public open space pedestrians. So it'll someone here will say the intents are um shall and then the standards will be kind of like we they could be shall or they might be some shs of you should do something like this. And so if they say, "Well, I don't really want to put sight lighting," we'll be like, "Okay, but what are you doing that still meets the intent of having a safe usable space?" So there it's that balance of trying to say being prescriptive but not too prescri, you know, like leaving some flexibility. So it's basically like you must provide a comfortable and usable public space and then these are ways that you can obtain it. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Now the way this is written is the standards are shalls and then like I said there's sort of a subsection that I left out. That is more the you can choose these options or you can get the planning director who or whoever's in that role to sort of okay that. So we could leave these eyeshadows which we may want to you know like I said um site lighting we might be like no you're going to have to light. Uh that verbiage is on page 11. It's the third bulletin. The should may encourage uh should make encourage our suggestions

shall will must are mandatory. Yep. A way to provide flexibility is to make the objective a shall but examples are should. So yeah, there's some how we write that does make a difference. Right. Okay. As long as the intent is a shall I could just see if we say, "Oh, you should add trees." That's not happening. Exactly. And people have found those loopholes over the years. And that's where you get to like standards are you have to guidelines are well we'd like you to. Okay. Um so the next two pages are just again site lighting um building location parking lot location. Again these are all dealing with sort of on the property where it is. Um the lighting is the idea is that it needs to if you have lighting it needs to be for safety. you need to keep it down, not glaring on your neighbors, not glaring up. The location um and the parking lot location are I think something we've had is again the tendency with planners is to sort of be like, hey, put the building up front, put the parking in the back. Um on the next page on 18, I've got some pictures of that. I know that um there's been discussion. I know sometimes businesses are like um but we don't want parking in the back, we want parking in the front. So looking at So here's right across the street in Edgewood one where obviously it's the newer. So the learning experience has that building up front and their parking's on the side. So again, it sort of has that oh that's what's there. Those are the buildings. Um, and then the second one is what's right next door is like it's that pushed in the back where all that parking's in front. And then the bottom one is sort of that overview with Meridian Avenue at the bottom of the page. The idea that

the experience learning is shoved up, the auto is in the back. Um, so again, maybe thinking through is that that's what this plan says is everything should be up front and that's kind of what we've lend to. Is that is there, you know, they there's some real advantages to that. I also know that like Meridian's not like people aren't going to like stop in front of it and go in because it's a busy street. So is there ways where maybe again maybe parking on the side is better than parking on the back in certain aspects. So you're getting the building not way back there because you can still see what's there but you're So anyway, just thinking through what our current thing is, what those trends are and are we comfortable with that or do we want something in between? Yeah, if you look at the O'Reilly building, it appears that these two lots kind of scaling it with my pen, but it looks like the two lots are the same. It's just the way they the building's built. It's skinnier and longer, whereas if the O'Reillys, they could have easily have done that, made it skinnier and longer. But and then had the entrances on the left hand side with the parking. And I do get the whole if if it's truly not a pedestrian friendly area, having the building up front and parking in the back, then where's your entrance? And it gets it does get a little confusing. I know there's some places in Federal Way on their busy street that sometimes you're like, I don't know how I mean, you know. So, um, so I have two two comments on this. I think one to me it depends on the type of business as well. If it's a child learning center, you know, having it on the sidewalk, that's not pro you're not

promoting someone to like walk in and like, oh, let's stop inside this store. But if you have a store like a Christy's Corner or something the knitting store where you're you're encouraging people like we want the business to come in having that more on a a sidewalk facing versus less so for a learning center where you're not bringing people in to attract the customer if that would play a part into it. Um, and then the second thing I know with like the apartments that went into Meridian, they were right up against the sidewalk and now Edgewood is struggling struggling to they can't expand um to make it uh two lanes, two lanes in a middle uh in certain areas because now you have a building right up against it. So, is there a like in here uh there's like the grass on that picture. Is there like a built-in safety net on either side to what if Milton does need a a a second Milton Way needs a turning lane on the way down or or two lanes down or um what does years down the road look like for Milton Way if we have businesses right up against it? We're locking ourselves into that road structure. Um so that would just be another thing to that that my brain's going to for those two. For me, I think safe access from the rightway to the building storefront is important. To me, it's not a priority for the storefronts to be on the sidewalk because of reasons I've said before that sometimes I I feel like it might be more of a trend right now. I don't know if that's going to be something longterm that's beneficial. And I I don't want to get us locked into this, you know, that I've been to restaurants where it's because they're told that they have to put everything forward to the sidewalk. You're now almost like walking around the building in the parking lot to get

to to it. So, I I would prefer to leave it up to the business to determine where they'd want to place their um their building within their their lot lines. Um, as granted that they provide safe access lighting and such, I just um I'm not a huge fan of mandating that it has to be on the rightway in in my case, but I'm I'm open to I don't think it's that. I think it's getting the parking in the rear. It's not so much that it's shoved up to for pedestrian access. It's to get the parking in the back. So, if your building's shoved up against the road, you're forced to have your parking in the back. Same thing with um how we configure our drive-thrus is the same policy. It's to get people driving around the back and then out from the sides. And I think that was the intent when we were talking with these uptown standards before was getting the buildings up close to the road and you know, pedestrian access. But you look at Uptown Coffee and do they have an entrance on the street? Yeah, they blocked it off. Don't they block it or Right. See, and so you're right. It's not so much for pedestrian access. It's to get the parking in the back of the building. And I trying to put on Yeah. not just my planner hat that I go to the planner meetings for, but you know, I could see what we want for um sort of our, you know, downtown central area to almost be more that way because I think our hope is those things that are those neighborhood commercial areas, those areas that are more up in this area, there's a higher potential of people walking to them. Mhm. Um but I do struggle with if you're on

Meridian, if you're on Milton Way or 99 or Yeah, definitely when you get onto that side. Yeah. I'm not sure how much, you know, you're less of people just, oh, I'm going to walk down. Look at u the uh planning for the edgewood area up there where the windmill is now and that whole stretch. That guy came in here and gave us that presentation and everything's right up against the sidewalk. So is it is it and yet having the buildings way in the back you just all you ever feel like it's this giant parking lot. So maybe there's some happy mediums of some parking or like you said the parking on the side. I don't know. Just I I think to think about it because the front of the building it attracts the customer. I know what this building is. I can park here and if I can't find parking I'll keep going around maybe that little grocery store and park. I mean I don't feel like their parking is really a problem. That was kind of a choice of theirs at O'Reilly is my feeling. And then there are some wacky things like if I walk a lot walking down Triangle Park by Dave's and then you go to walk by Canon Electric, that is the most awkward weird place to walk because there's no sidewalk. There's no continuous sidewalk. Once you come away from Davees and you're headed downhill, you kind of hit a parking space and like a little median that's full of plantings and there's no sidewalk there, but there's a sidewalk all the way around Canon Electric. It's just it's really weird. Walk that way sometime and if you if you haven't and see what I'm talking about. So, any way that we could like have a continuous sidewalk down that road would be with our design standards in the future. I I know it's too late for them. That would be good. Yeah. But right now that is that is super weird. Has anybody else walked that? It's it's parked over. Odd. Yeah. Trying to cross the street. Related to that, if you want to split the page on 20

is that the idea of um it talks about corner features and um so I used Emish Market. So again, the idea is that they put it up close. Now they do have some like outdoor seating right at the corner which is their bubbles are kind of cool. I haven't sat in one yet, but I've sat outside when it was summertime. It's kind of nice. But the idea that, you know, compared to like the Walgreens where again it's here's this great corner of your city and you're just kind of seeing parking lots and fences where oh wow, you could see a structure. So, um there is this idea of corner features. Now, it doesn't have to be intersections. It could be within the strip mall. You kind of add that extra um kind of look to those corner features. Um but it does it you know and then but then does it need to be does it have to be the building and that's where um again thinking of conversations we've had thinking of the conversations of like you know we are starting to have conversations fingers crossed for Hollywood video is for them they're like we really don't want to put a building in that corner but we have talked about but maybe we can do some sort of that could be where their plaza is their public space is so it's something that looks nice as you're entering ing Milton, but maybe it isn't the building crammed right up front. So, that's some things to think about, too, is is are those alternatives acceptable for those kind of Yeah. Yeah. And my mind thinking of development, I think the more options and freedoms that meet the intent but give the developers, um, I just get a little worried that we get so restrictive that people don't want to invest in here. So that's where I get sometimes. Um, so we say we want to create some sort of visual presence at the corners. I I'm okay with that. I just don't think it needs to be the building. How do others

feel? I can see that. We could be limiting our the businesses coming in if we're so restrictive on building has to be here, has to be this, has I think presenting options of it. And but I I see both sides. I see like you don't want to drive down and just see parking lots all the way down the street and you got to squint like what's that building? What's that building? But u yeah. Um, so 20 and 21, like I said, it sort of talks about that corner feature. Also talks about blank walls. Um, picking on Sheron Williams a little bit. I mean, their front of their building is kind of fun. It is set back, but their side is just I mean, it does have one little stripe down it, but again, it's it's on the street. So, um, the idea is if they had to follow these guidelines, they would have been had to put in um just a few more things. Maybe it's a trellus with plants growing up. Maybe it's some windows. Maybe it's some cover. Something to just make it a little more interesting. Um, since it's right along the street. How come they How come they didn't do more trees on that blank wall? They just have one at each end. Yeah. You don't know. Check out those beautiful scuppers. And I just wanted to say I appreciate all the pictures and examples because Yes. Just being a strange lady taking a picture of buildings around the city must have been a I think they were scared. They're like, "Oh my god, it's the planning commission for Google. You're not out there. You're not out there with your phone." And it depends. I had to do like the car wash. That's why they're not in here. They did do the car wash, but because it's not on Google yet. So, yeah. O'Reilly's is calling the the daycare next door. Hey, is there's a lady over taking pictures of your building, too? Because I was in my personal car taking a compliance picture once and I got called in. Why is this person taking a picture? Um, and then the bottom 21. So, franchise design, invisible facades. The

idea is that, you know, there's certain buildings like you're like, "Okay, that is a Taco Bell or that is a McDonald's historically." Um, and so what happens, you know, you've seen them where you're like, "Oh, now it's a coffee shop, but man, it was a something." because their design of that building is so tight to that. So, um the section basically says you can't use any stock building plans. The problem with that is that nowadays most of these buildings, their stock plans are more neutral. And so, I I don't like that term of stock. Um that was like gravity coffee. They're that was their stock building plans. It's a perfectly nice square building with nice look that Yeah. the the you can tell by the coloring it's gravity coffee but it could be easily converted to something else. So my idea is that um just I I kind of grabbed some lang looking at what like Chalan had done is is just maybe tweak that language to just say that you know it has to be able to be um and it didn't really have an intent. So I thought well if we add an intent that basically says it has to be adaptable. You can't make it so your company like Sher's you know a Sher's when you see it even though they're no longer here and makes me very sad. Eats a hut roof and stuff, you know. So yeah, just they're not you can always see that like the idea that they probably aren't going to be here forever. They need to somewhat be whatever. Um is there any questions on those two pages? No. I think like another good example is like the uh Taco Bell that we have in Milton versus like the one down in F. Yeah, ours is very more neutral. any other built restaurant could just plug in there. The one down in F has been there for forever. That one has like like you were saying like a stock Taco Bell feel to it. Yeah. Uh no, definitely agreed. Um and then again, these are just these what's currently in the code is this

idea of making them have visible building entrances, bound facads. The transparity is the idea of windows um which our current window is you know we need to do some more compliance this summer. Um but the idea is like so the new UPS store went in. Um they called us and they said, "Okay, we've got an area that's going to be storage. There's windows. Can we cover it?" And based on the Windows code that signed code that we did is yes, you have to ask for an exception and then this is why. But the idea is that the parts that are public, people like to see in. If you think about the places we have that you can't see in, you do not feel like you can just wander in. Um, and so that's a lot of why they talk about that transparency, that visibility is as much as sometimes they don't, they think, oh, signage signage is good, if you have too much people can't see in, they're actually might be less hesitant to go in. Um, weather protection. Again, part of that is obviously if you're standing in the rain at their door, um, but also it has a better look for it. Um, building materials reforms, idea of just creating a little bit more variety than just square boxes. Any questions on building entrances, weather protection, building materials, roof forms, and then the last one it would only really take in effect is if we get start getting multiple stried buildings um is idea that the higher you go the more you have to step in. Um so your first floor um be at the straight level and then maybe your second floor or at least by your third floor you're moving in a few feet. So that you know if you go to if you know if you go to Seattle it's like skyscrapers you just feel inundated. Um if you step back things it helps people feel not quite so towered over. Um and then I thought the graphic was great because it just showed a lot of those

things we're looking at. Um a reminder that again planning terms that gets around articulation and modulation. Um, articulation is the idea of using architecture to divide up the mass. Um, so it is like changing roof lines, doing materials, check textures, you're adding balconies, you're adding belly bands, windows, doors, and then modulation is simply like, okay, for every 20 feet, you've got to go in or out 10 feet if you've got a huge building. So that you've got, you're not just this huge straight wall. I love this intent. But I've seen this expressed in some super tacky ways that are going to, you know, 10 years from now scream the time that they were built. You know, like different there's a bump out and it's got a different sighting and it's a slightly different color. You know, the kind of like big mixed use I'm talking about. You see them everywhere. Anyway, we can avoid that would be great. I know. You know what I'm talking about. There are times when our plans do not work out right. So, anyway, this is I don't know. Again, not sure how how we want to if we're like, "Yeah, these are great. If you want to think on it, come back in either next month or the month after and talk about them a little more after we've thought through them." Um, if it's like, "Yeah, go with this or we want some changes on this." So, does everyone think? I think this was really helpful um to talk through it. Having another month um to go through it in more detail I think would be also helpful. Um just a few general things. Um I think I'm pretty torn on a lot of things between letting them do what they want and imposing strict um guidelines. So I think having time to think think those

through the parking lot situation. Um, I also go back and forth. If I'm on a bike, I would much rather have the building on the sidewalk. If I'm driving, I would much rather see how many open parking spots are in front of the building. Um, but I think we should be careful to not say, "Oh, this strip of road or this area, no one walks here, so let's just let them put a big parking lot." Um maybe if we create it to be more walkable, the people will come um kind of a chicken or the egg situation. Um I would just say uh be mindful of of that, but Meridian some parts are far too gone. So any other general thoughts or comments? Um, on page 19, just the photos of the like the hiding the trash cans and the recycling containers. Just noticing like the behind the entire Safeway complex that's become such more of a through area to get to like Grocery Outlet over there instead of people going through the main parking lot. Um, I see more and more cars going back that way and just having a cleaner presentation back there just as a not behind the building, but it is an actual like through passageway. But I mean, I've seen cars like having to go around piles of pallets just stacked there. And there was like a mattress back there one day. And so just having that clean presentation I think would just make it more inviting to be on that backside because the library does have an entrance back there too. So it is not just a back building or shipping area. We are actually inviting people to drive down that way to park down there to leave their car. and the first thing

they're seeing is all these like pallets and dumpsters and just things. So, strong support of covering the mess. I agree. Uh there was some a little bit of to-do about that strip of uh road. It's not really a road. It's uh private, so they can block it off at any time they want. But uh I agree this is probably the best opportunity to take advantage of that screening of uh stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um yeah. So I think tonight was a little bit more about business and then we're thinking next time it'll be a little bit more about the residential side of things or So yeah, I can bring back um at the next meeting more like the multif family stuff. So, some of this is duplicate, you know, some of it overlaps, but um there are things that are specific for apartment complexes, multif family, town houses, that kind of stuff. Okay. So what are everyone's thoughts as far as the close a chapter, open a chapter, go back to it all at the end or is so do we want to just get into business like stick with business next meeting until we feel like we have iterated and we're good with business and then move into multif family or do we want to like okay we talked about business spend five minutes next to me as far as did anyone have any thoughts about last presentation that we missed okay let's dive into multif family. Um, granted with all of it, whichever way we go, we're still going to have options to come back at the end and look at the total package, but I just want to figure out what people feel is the best way to parcel this out. I I like today having um the opportunity to hear staff walk through it and then we'll have a month and then spend a little time on it. Okay. Uh next month um just to go over

anything we found and then move on and do something something similar as tonight with the next section. Okay. So, next week, next month or next meeting would be, you know, agenda item 6A is review of last 6B would be moving into the next chapter. Yeah. Because like I said, some of this overlaps like obviously dumpsters you have to screen, you know, so it'll be a smaller chunk that's just specifically why a multif family that's different than this. So yeah, I can do the similar idea for that. Um and and definitely what I what I'm hearing maybe I'll just do a recap there is, you know, it sounds like um obviously the screening obviously making some creativity with some of these buildings. Um, but definitely is there a way that we can for some of our existing areas get them not massively, but at least a little bit better, whether that's access, whether that's screening. Um, because I I mean, theoretically, yes, someone could come in and tear down all of the Safeway complex and build it all up, but I don't think that's going to happen or the other side. And so, is there ways that there are, I think, ways that we could say, okay, this is I'll look and see what can we do to encourage them to do some improvements just here and there to make it a little more design friendly. I could definitely see that happening with buds but not Safeway. Yeah, that's a lot of property and and it stays full. Yeah, because I mean Safeway is definitely that whole complex is one that you would like to see revitalized as far as access, you know, where it's like if you guys are just going parking all your trucks there, let's find a way to just say like that's not parking or screen it or Okay. Um, but yeah, I just see people too many times

cutting across from the Planet Fitness side, stopping at the median, and then waiting to clear, and then it's just kind of a death trap of walking along that landscape island there until you get to sidewalks. Um, all right, cool. So, it sounds like we've got a good plan for next meeting. Um, all I ask is please if you have any comments and stuff like that, make sure to feel free to reach out to staff about them and kind of refresh yourself before our next meeting because I my only fear is I just don't want to get deep dive into this so much again that now we're spending another 40 minutes on business and we're going, hey, what what did we discuss last time? Where did we start? So, whatever we can do to make sure we're trying to continue the conversation, um, I would greatly appreciate. How do we prevent that? I don't know, but I'm just going to ask for it. That get to the universe and it'll happen. I'm just putting it out there that my goal would be that this is a big this can turn into a very tedious process if we allow it. And so if we can just make sure we're continuing the conversations and refreshing ourselves prior to next meeting, um it would be greatly appreciated. I don't know if I'm allowed to bribe people with candies and treats or something, but if that's what But if it's in your chair, it's Yeah. But if I'm allowed to cash um not on the record, but um that's just my big ask is whatever we can do to make sure we're continuing conversations would be great from meeting. With that, we'll turn it to staff reports if I'm tracking correctly. Right. Um just um a reminder of all the activities. It is summertime, so we have touch a truck next Thursday if you have any children or you yourself want to come see what the um bucket truck looks like or the fire engine or the motorcycle or whatever. Um so that's

going on. We're going to have movie or not movie. Um there is music in the park in two Wednesdays I believe to kind of our first attempt at the stage get all of our stuff out before um Milton days. So I think there's four little half an hour mini groups that we were able to get um is that the 23rd? Yes. Very fun. Yes. So and I think there'll be a food truck there as well. Um what else? There is obviously the community yard sale and something else in July, but I can't remember what it is. And then obviously Milton Day is coming up. So, and then we're looking for volunteers for Milton days if you're, you know, and we will have a booth. Um, the city always has a booth and I will have one that's um talking about some of what we're working on just kind of and then especially I I think I had said I would like to focus on some of the like tree canopies, urban forestry, that kind of stuff. So, um, if any planning commission members want to hang out for a half an hour or an hour and talk to the people, you're welcome to. Um, if you're already so volunteered, I understand. That's it. Great. Um, crush reports. But I probably should have covered this or we should have officially added it to the agenda. But um next so August 13th I heard some comments about do we want to table that meeting move it to September pros and cons on that or if we want to maybe table like October's meeting or just whatever works. So what is staff's timeline as far as if we were to staff is happy to Yeah, staff is okay with a staff's okay if you want to give me an extra month. Staff is also happy to keep things moving. So, okay. How is everyone feeling about an August meeting or um so we can just

power through and just keep all of our meetings? We can cancel August. We can cancel we threw out October, but that was only because of the craft fair or bizarre. How are people feeling? I have no strong preference. Yeah, if staff is cool with powering through, I'll power through as well. Charge. So, keep going through August. Okay. Just want to make sure. Cool. Okay. Now, officially, we'll move into commissioner reports and I'll start on this side of the room. All right. Well, since I missed it last time, welcome, Commissioner Murray. Thank you. It's nice to have you. I don't have another report besides please drive carefully during the summer. I was in an accident last week. I'm fine. The motorcyclist was not. So, look out for motorcyclists. Look out for yourself. Please drive safe. That's it. Yeah. Uh, Commissioner Murray. Yeah. Um, happy second meeting. just um I'll be at Milton Days um with Parks Board and I'll just scoot the chair to the next table over. Um but yeah, and then volunteering in the morning. So just really looking forward to Milton Days overall. It's going to be a fun one. Hopefully the weather holds out for us. But uh if anything like last year, it's going to be a good turnout. Yeah. But nothing else. Commissioner Zar, I've got nothing. Commissioner Boy, uh let's see. uh is brought up by staff, uh July 26th is the community garage sale and I will have apparently or someone in my house is going to have a bunch of junk to get rid of because I'm honor about it. Uh so yeah, we're going to get involved with that this year will be one of the homes down here. Um, speaking of, uh, uh, I live about 150 yards from here and, uh, somebody broke into my truck and tried to steal it

about 3 weeks ago. And if I didn't have the, you know, the aftermarket no start thing on it, it had been gone cuz I put a screwdriver in and with my little fob, it fired right up. So, uh, this is 150 yards from the police station. So, these people are here. They're in our community. As a matter of fact, last night I was on my way home at 5:00 p.m. came across Porter Way bridge and I saw a nice group of nerdy wells, hobos, whatever drug addicts, whatever you call them, crawling out from underneath the Porterway Bridge. So, they're here. They are definitely here. I went to the police department. Police departments told me that without any regrets or anything was we can't do anything. It's state property. Those people are allowed to stay there until the state makes them move. The state is not uh about relocating and anything like this. So they are telling me, well, they're coming from F and they're coming. I don't care where they're coming from. They're a danger to the safety of our children. And so, uh, I guess my I suggested some v vigilante type activities and they said that's probably not a good idea, but uh, there are people that can be contacted and badgered with emails with the state, uh, with DOT and whatnot. So, I guess I just go the squeaky wheel route and hope for the best. But I'm just telling people, protect your property and protect your families and uh because nobody else is going to run these people out of here. They're here and nobody's going to run them out. So, just my little bit of bandstanding here for uh my grief for my poor truck ignition and and that wasn't cheap.

Um, as far as reports for me, um, I know she's not here, but I I did want to say thank you to Commissioner Johnson for all of the work she's doing on um, just making sure that there's a lot of public transparency and opportunities to look at the mayoral election and our candidates. I don't know how much I can get into that on staff reports, but just that it's cool that there's stuff out there. You're encouraged to to look that up. Um, I think it's fun to hear of all the summer events, but along with that, yeah, summer's out and zombies are too, man. Um, I've definitely see them more and more. And that's one thing that as we push for more sidewalks, as my street got sidewalks, I was like, "Oh, that's what it means when you start getting sidewalks, too." So, there's there's pros and cons to sidewalks. Um, yeah. And especially with all the big events in Seattle, that's where a lot of that's getting kind of pushed out and into anywhere that's near public transit and such. Um, but that's that's the area we live in. I don't have anything else. So, next regular meeting August 13th. We're holding strong. And with that 77