Planning - Regular Meeting

Welcome. We're going to have a call to order and roll call. Gilmore. Here. Miles. Here. Miller. Here. Bailey. Here. Capels.

All right. So we're going to have a motion to approve the minutes from last month. So moved. All right. Second? Second. Thank you. All right. The one and only case today, William Walker. Welcome back. What's changed besides the letter?

in a hard place where neither party want it. Both party thinks it hurts their property. Both parties think it's creating a big safety issue.

Well, at the last meeting, we tried to make a point. If you just show a turnout, just show it. You can park in front of it. We can't as a city. The city cannot force your traffic to go on to the neighbor. You've got to have an agreement between you if that's going to happen. All you got to show is a turnout. Just show it on the plan. You don't have to finish it. You just show it. And we would be doing something else today besides coming here. Sure.

Yeah.

So that's the issue. I thought we had made that pretty clear in the last meeting.

maybe we didn't beat it enough but it's just one of them deals if you just show it yeah and when we spoke we're speaking with the city attorney and staff um we were are under the impression that if we show it it could at some point have to be built if if cooper does redevelop That was what we were told. Even if we show it on the plan and we don't build it now, Tractor doesn't really leave locations. They've been where they're at since the 60s. They're looking at this in 10 or 15 years. If he does redevelop and a high traffic QSR goes in right there, they're going to have to build it. It's a major safety issue. I think they, I was talking to the adjoining landowner, said somebody almost got hit and that they've had to put up signs.

But again, I'm not saying send tractor supply traffic onto Cooper. That's not what I'm saying at all. Okay, it's just to get through the ordinance, it just has to show it on your plan.

No, understood.

And at some point, if Cooper wants it, then you have to agree back. They just can't force you either.

So we could show it and we would never have to agree to building it? No. Forever?

No. Forever's a long time. I'm not going to be here much longer. I'm just saying.

Right. Because we did look at that, but we were told by the city attorney and staff that it would possibly happen.

So we know the issue. What kind of questions we got from the members?

I'm just going to make a comment. From what we talked about last time and when we discussed showing that extra exit or whatever, I thought it was pretty well understood or should have been understood. That's all we're asking. Show it on the plan.

Mr. Miles, we did ask staff if that would be something that was acceptable and showing the other entrance. And they said that if we do show that, it'll just trigger two variances, one for cross-access and one for the extra entrance. We did explore that. That was Tractor's preferred route to go about this, and we did explore that. And they just told us if we do that, we'll have to have two variances, one for the, I think Darrell may be able to tell us, I think both access management related.

Right, they don't have enough frontage to have two entrances, according to access management.

We did explore that.

So if they have two, they have to have a variance for the second one.

You're talking about on Carraway?

Yeah. Yeah, no, they've only got enough frontage for one entrance.

So not to belabor the point, the one entrance you've got is for obviously tractor-trailer rigs to get in there and deliver product.

That's right.

You've got to have product. Yes, sir. Where are they going to turn around at?

They've got the truck turn. It's tight, but it does work. Where?

I'm looking for it. No, that's not on that one.

I'm not sure. I think, Darrell, you've seen the truck turn, or should have. It's not on this submission, but the truck does functionally turn. I don't know if you can see the hatch concrete on the very top, but that's where they're going to do heavy duty pavement to facilitate the truck. But yes, the truck will turn and I you can see the hammerhead on the be the my right side of the what will be the fenced outdoor display of the other side. If you'll scroll the opposite way, I believe they're going to hammerhead into that and turn around. So they'll pull into it and then back in. Okay.

Can I ask you for a couple of clarifications, please? So the cross-access management ordinance that is in place that is engaged by this redevelopment, Caraway Road is a collector. It's an arterial. Arterial. And as an arterial roadway, the cross access management orders that was enacted was to, as properties redevelop, and I just want verification, as properties redevelop, you're wanting to keep the traffic off of Caraway and let it go, as much as possible, business to business. Is that the long and the short of it? And if we, grant of this variance for not to do the cross-access, are we setting a precedent for future businesses to come in here and ask the same thing?

There has been one variance granted prior to for not allowing cross-access. It was on Carraway Road on the other side of the interstate.

Kevin, I want to talk to that point. You know, every time we grant a variance or disapprove one, we set a precedent. It doesn't mean everybody's going to do it, but you're right, it does set a precedent. But it does every time we do a variance.

Well, I'm trying very hard not to disappoint TSC. and the redevelopment and the owner of the property and everything else.

I really. No, I appreciate that. And something Tractor, I hope, is considered is that they're doing a lot of stuff that they don't do anywhere else. They're covering the ditches. They're adding the sidewalks. I mean, they're doing a lot to facilitate, to meet all the city ordinances. But I hope you guys don't see this as just us coming in with a handful of ass. They're meeting a laundry list of things of other items to make this work and make this happen to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And these were the few things that were just sticking points kind of for everybody.

So we granted one other cross-access variance on the south side.

There is one on the north. It was on the north side. It was where that convenience store and there's some kind of chicken place being built. Golden Chick. Right now. Right down there on the right there.

Carraway and Parker. Yes.

That's all the questions I have.

I wasn't here last time. Where is the, where are y'all wanting to do this at?

Can you zoom out on that to show me?

Yeah, I got that. I'm just looking for where on the map they're saying they needed to put that in there.

It's not shown on there.

It's not shown on there. So wherever they wanted to do it, they could put it just somewhere on that thing they needed to do it.

That's correct.

Sorry. I'm trying to catch up a little bit.

And one of the problems is Tractor does what they call an outdoor trailer display area. And you can see that on the hatch concrete in the bottom left. So that runs all the way up to nearly the drive in front of the building.

And the cross-access to the north onto Subway is gonna stay in place? That turnout is gonna stay in place? That's right. So we have it on the north, and basically we're talking about the south.

That's right. And the south property.

There's no way that you would entertain just sharing the entrance there with the property, with Cooper's property, that entrance that I'm looking at?

According to that letter, Matt, that they have attached, Tim doesn't want it. Tim doesn't want the traffic.

Right. So I'm saying instead of having it up there, oh, OK, I see what you're saying. You can just share that, and then that would take care of the cross-access. But it really doesn't.

Well, their property is so far away. I mean, it's next door, obviously. It's really not a way to have a shared access from Caraway, unless you're going to eat up.

You could redo that and make that your main entrance, but they'd lose their entrance they're showing to the north.

And I think they would lose their trucking to go to the back. Or the trucks would not be able to turn.

That would be horrible. The problem is that the buildings are there.

We're not going to tear up the building to do that.

Sorry, I'm just looking at it. No, you're good.

I'm just trying to think of something to make this work. Yeah, we spent a lot of time with Tractor.

I've had to deal with this in the real world, and we had to build our cutout. It's no big deal. You just do it, and it's fine. If it was a new building, it would be a different deal.

Right. That's the issue.

Did we talk about the widening of your entrance to have a left turn and a right turn? Did we talk about that last time?

I asked them about that, and they didn't seem to.

Well, we would be thrilled. But I don't believe a wider entrance is going to be allowed off Carraway. But Tractor would be obliged for a wider entrance.

There's a reason why would not that would not be accepted up to a 40 foot wide entrance.

Okay, well, we'll build the maximum whatever that one now, sir.

I'm not sure it may say on there.

I didn't bring my scale with me.

A lot of them are 36.

That's pretty well.

Yeah, yeah. Well, they want the widest for the cattle trailers and things.

Yeah.

30 feet. If you look at the, did y'all see, did y'all say 30?

Yeah, it is at the lowest point in the radius. It's wider at the street, so yeah, 30.

Anybody here like to speak against this? I'd like to speak for it.

Patty Lack, 4108 Forest Hill Road. So I listened to the last meeting and I've seen how it's just kind of been postponed for a couple of weeks on here. So I think Knowing that there has been already a variance approved for the gasoline station and the chicken place, I think you guys need to look back and see why you approved that variance on that. And I think, Doug, where you said that it has to just be noted, I think the thing is is that there's so many other business locations out on Johnson that don't have a cross access. I googled or I went on register to find out how many variances that you've had through the BZA with the cross access and there's been none that I've seen. I went through it really quick so I did not see that one. But my point there is that how come all these, if these businesses have built, if on their plans do they have noted that they have a cross-access for the future use?

That's a pretty broad question that we're not going to be able to answer that specifically, Patty, because there's so many.

Right.

But if you look at the new developments that are at Greensboro Village, other places like that, there is plenty of cross-access for a lot of them. But it's not everywhere. Now, and also the cross-access ordinance, when did that come in about? 2000. 2000. So anything developed before 2000 didn't have to have one. Anything developed after that.

Right. Well, I think the point is, is that if they had been, if they're given that waiver and they don't have it, what is the reason why they don't have one? And was it written on the building plans and all that? Is that seen on the building plans for future use? because it needs to be, because if it's not, then they need to come back and have the variance. So I hope you guys look at this as saying that you've done one already. I think, you know, is that they're willing to give a lot back to the community, and you've already done it one time. So I hope you grant this variance for this company. Thank you.

Thank you. Anybody else? Emerson, why are you here?

I'm just here for the show.

OK. Well, let's get the show over with. Rick, you got any questions?

Mr. Chair, I make a motion that we place the variance request, BR 26-23, on the floor for vote.

Is there a second? Second. Okay. We have a roll call, please.

Miles? No. Millard? Yes. Bailey?

No.

We have three either way. How does that work? Okay, it did fail. Thank you for your time.