Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

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e e e we'll call the order the meeting of the New Palestine Planning Commission why don't we start the meeting with the pledge of allegiance aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the repic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for

all your stuff is up there the first item on our agenda let's do a roll call yes about that this is like all over again how are you doing okay um all right Ryan heartley here Chris wont not present NE Meer here Ted Mander here great CR here here and Ron Wally is out he's in Florida yes thank you very much we have a quorum the first item on our agenda is consideration of the minutes from our meeting of February 5th hopefully everybody's had an opportunity to review the minutes is there a motion regarding the minutes I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as present our back I'll second it has been moved and second are there any questions edits discussions comments regarding the minutes hearing none all those in favor of approving the minutes from the meeting of February 5th as presented in the backup materials please indicate by saying I I I opposed motion carries and minutes are approved next item on the agenda is consideration of the comprehensive plan hello again hi it's good to see everyone um well just to recap uh from our last meeting we presented the um 2025 comprehensive plan to you all and

um there were some technical edits that it sounded like we needed to work through and it was the decision of the plan commission to hold off on um positively approving um the comprehensive plan until those edits were taken care of um we took care of those I think the I think the only um kind of substantial edits that were recommended had to do with what was actually the Hancock County comprehensive plan that we listed in the appendix of the um document so we didn't we didn't we couldn't really change that it was just a reference point I think town of surely there was some confusion there so I think we have fixed that page to make it more obvious that it is part of the appendix um and not a part of the actual comprehensive plan other than that I had sent the updated comprehensive plan inclusive of those technical edits to the um to Jenny last Tuesday so you've had just over a week to review um and we're happy to kind of open the floor for any questions that have come up since then um and kind of take it from there okay thank you members of the plan commission have any questions questions or comments regarding the plan I have several comments but I know last time I had a lot of discussion points I'll let everyone else speak first you can chime in if you'd like Chris go right in okay so uh page 42 and 103 I appreciate that you updated the comments that I had there uh had to do with the uh residential housing plan on page 42 uh instead of uh being prescriptive about the type of housing so I appreciate that um are you able to get on the screen we can okay um let me get my I have a

attach we didn't change the the wording on that because it was referenced to the original plan that was presented to those focus groups at the time and unfortunately fredt wanted toate that yeah I think it was I can't remember which page it was on but it was it made reference to the next page page 36 actually um it's that's not a not not a show stopper by any means that it just yeah said current White zones designated for residential use and there's no white zones on the next page so here let me forward to you Elena and then while we do this I apologize I traveled last week and took my adopter out um so Elena will pull it up I'm sending her the document just with your edits another point I wanted to bring up there were a couple edits that to what they had to do with the focus group so reording what the focus group had said and we decided as a group that probably keep the notes from the focus group what they actually were and we can reord maybe where reference some of those notes in later L parts of the document but um focus grou Pages were summaries of the not ofoc gr to amend those and to re those it of what FOC grou I see right yeah and I think that's one of the things that I have I have here but that's not a big concern I sympathize with that

problem several left my mess using my so now these are the that's fine I got both I got both of them here I've been working off the final one so we can go to the final one okay real quick Chris I gota find it what app did you use to do that what what app yeah to put those questions on the side Jenny and I were trying to figure that out oh the the comments yeah we could not do it was it was sent to me in PDF right but the comments on the side I well we have at my work we have the acrobat latest and greatest best there is so yeah it made it nice yeah yeah we I mean yeah that's what we so I know like a lot of companies don't have that because it's it's a it's a costly thing made it nice yeah um so we had then what I wanted to say is on 103 I appreciate you guys updating that as well Sydney you had that uh the public safety analysis and school analysis for new developments so I appreciate you put that in there um when you get that up can we go to page 89

[Music] please I bre strategy yes land use and growth strategy okay so I only have two things that that that I want to recommend and if we get these two things on there I'm ready to make a motion to approve this thing so we're we're all in a hurry we can uh on page 89 the last paragraph and we talked about a well balanced controlled a well planned controlled balanced compact growth approach is essential for long-term Health vitality and the sustainability of the Town local authorities and planners should encourage development within areas that have access to utilities promote mix of residential densities and support proactive neighborhood and planning I would like to add to that a sentence that says planners should consider the historical ratio of owner occupied and rent rental housing simple and sweet just Rao yeah planning should consider the historical ratio of owner occupied and Rental housing well why don't we put that to a motion and see if there's a consensus Chris you want to make a motion I do I make a motion that we add the sentence on page 89 to the last paragraph planners should consider the historic historic IAL ratio of owner occupied and Rental housing a second okay it's been moved in second is there any discussion I will just say for the record that I'm okay with the plan the

way it is without that insertion that's just my thought I don't know what others might be thinking yeah part you know my my thought on that is as we look at you know I just drove up into to McCordsville just over the weekend and and they're building these massive uh apartment complexes right on Mount Comfort Road um you see them um and I know that's something that the community is very interested in not being a McCordsville not being a Franklin Township not being off Fishers so this is a something that will allow us to give us some consideration as we look at developments that come before the the plan commission it's a pretty broad suggestion I I don't see it issue with it in totality um I think again the intent and I think the comment is how do we preserve the small town field while still understanding that growth is going to happen right so verbage wise I don't have any issue with it I don't think it causes any barriers or or I mean it's something that you know Brian brought up some good stuff um and at the same token it's a great factor to consider I I would think that the plan commission consider that whether it was in there not so add stating that yeah it's just stating hey this is one of the values that we have which is stated in the document multiple times actually stated in the action plan for some of okay any other thoughts or comments all those in favor of the motion indate by saying I I I I opposed

we'll make that addition very good um the next one's on page 104 in the center of the map I if you can blow that map up a little bit we move on I just want to make sure that we had okay very good uh no it's the future land use [Music] map page 104 of a backup material which would be Page Believe it's yeah I thought this this is the one the one you have up is what you issued to us right last week yeah okay oh right right right yeah y yep yeah there's [Music] no okay so on this map the the suggestion I have here is is that the rectangle that is underneath that pink rectangle this here I'm sorry I can't see that yeah yeah right right so so that and below so that the large I guess Square really the large Square um that's shown as in this map as the Village Center I would suggest that we make that a multicolored Zone with the neighborhood town or the residential just Square here just the

square right not the outside of town boundaries currently correct not the rectangle keep that pink right it just so we did talk about this a group and the reason we not change it because if you look at the definition of Village Center it's pretty Broad and inclusive of resal hous as well so it actually gives you a more flexible um it's a more flexible what's the word I'm looking for category yeah use over the pl neighborhood right um here's the definition here on page 102 these are intended to be Compact and highly integrated master plan developments with a range of use similar to plant neighborhoods with more dense and uh intensive uses traditional neighborhood design principles should be employed to create a unique and inviting mixed use environment that are somewh self-contained each Village Center should include usable public space connected by safe and bodying pedestrian spines that promote walkability to goods and services that meet residents the central core of each Village Center is expected to be more intensive with lower density rates located closer to right soy so so right so one of honest to a um so back to that map area right so one of the things I heard there was mixed use so my concern here is is that as a master as a comprehensive plan if we leave that entire area as pink it's almost as if we're already saying that this town center is going to be that big you know I I I I would like us to have that option as we as we move forward it's mixed use though so it's Town

Center piece won't be that big but the adjacent um housing Park mixed use whatever right but what if someone wants to do a a standard R2 neighborhood in there yeah it's inclusive of that I would say the land use doesn't change the zoning um so if something came up um in that in this area that isn't conducive to um the Town Center description at least but it would be maybe traditional neighborhood or something like that I think this just gives you an opportunity to uh to look at from the like kind of the radiating concentric circles of of the critical mass that occurs during the Town Center development and then what radiates out of that will typically transitional neighborhood around um from like higher density to lower density that makes sense from housing perspective I I understand your concern and happy to make whatever and that's what think there's enough protection in that definition of Village Center that give us the to say no you're not going to put up it's a big definition this also uh matched what was in the original Hancock County uh future land use around your town boundaries um and what the steering committee has included as as the appropriate use but obviously you guys yeah I'm not I mean I'm not suggesting that I just I was suggesting a a a zebra pattern showing the orange and this pink so that it's kind of understood so it's orange well I know I'm difficult today sorry here's my concern let say you don't show that as the same color as the town center and somebody comes with an indust if you come to an industrial use and

it's the way it's presented now it's very easy for us to say that's not consistent with the Town Center well you can still say that with a residential you can still say hey as a planner as a Planning Commission or as a comprehensive plan we're looking that to be residential either residential or Town Center consistent with the Town Center so it could be a mixed right and that's why if we just just we just stratify it you know just just uh you guys know what I mean by stratify or Z stripe it right adding to it well it right now it gives you it gives the perception that this town center is a a done deal and it's huge right I would like the Town Center to be 10 times that but I don't think it's going to happen how many acres is that right there I'm just I'm just does anybody aware that I don't know yeah it's not that it's not that many acres and are you is your concern that someone's going to look at this and see Village Center but not understand or take the time to read what is entitled in the Village Center Well the description right so you think so a developer comes in or whoever you know and I know there's a lot of discussion around this right now for this for this area um I don't know that there's any discussion about this entire area I think if but I think I think a developer if if they want to come come in and develop something they should do their due diligence and read through it and understand how encompassing the town um The Village Center is it covers quite a bit I just see if it's shaded the same to me it's indicating whatever your proposed use is it needs to be consistent with that's that that's how I see that what what do you guys think you

guys been a little Qui down there um I like it how it is I think it it encompasses everything u i mean right now it's outside of town limits I know the steinm road extensions going through there I like to leave it how it is it it does give us a lot of option it does say traditional neighborhood design principle should be employed to create a unique inviting mixed use environment somewhat self so Village Center to the planned neighborhood which the planned neighborhood says the same thing use a tradition neighborhood right so yeah so so Ryan the the term mixed use there is different than you know the the R2 or the neighborhood town the orange which is more more of a traditional a neighborhood understand that um so I'm just uh I mean fishers's got a huge town center right yeah yeah I mean I I guess that's kind of where I'm at with this is like do we really want something do we want to make that decision now or and and I hear what you guys are saying look look we we still have an opportunity if a development wants to come here and do an R2 are we saying that that's still on the table I think anything that's consistant of the Town Center which residential would be considered and then you'd have to consider it on its merits right I think you have more control the way it's set up right now I agree again my I said previously my concern is if you change it it gives the impression to a developer that you can come in with something that's not consistent with the town C it's about 150 acres all together and that's why I like it changing the same color for that it gives us easier way to say no to something that we want

to say no to whatever that is yeah I so they're going to have to make public space connected by safing and biting pedestrian spines that promote walkability to good so like I think I think there is a lot of controls there but that's my my my last question and my question is for Chris are you concerned about apartments or number of Apartments that's I really hadn't thought about that I was just looking at you know how the the comp of plane can often be used as hey it's in your plan so uh we're going to do what what the comprehensive plan says we're going to do right so the striped approach still leaves the door open between either the R2 neighborhood or or the Town Center so it it's it doesn't it doesn't constrict what we're it it just leaves it more open you are allowed to to stripe it like P we can Cas it if that's what so was orange planned neighborhoods yeah LGE comp well and get just another example if there was a retail use that was phenomenal if you change it maybe it's easier to say no to that because oh now we're we're kind of hedging our bets that we want it to be our to or residential I think you want to keep your options available and consider whatever comes along that's just my we can always say no but Chris if you want to make a well I think I know what the answer is going to be Eric what are

your thoughts I think we like it like it is I like it like it is all right all right fair enough so my next question is on page 36 um there's a statement down here or the architectural standards um New Palestine should adopt higher standards than the county potentially codifying them at the local planning documents which something we talked about last month and we which we appreciated that you put this in there and that it was discussed I guess I want us discuss this as a as a plan commission right now how do we how do we Implement that I think that's up to the plan commission to adopt those standards absolutely right so what we have to develop store we have to develop standards right which is a great idea yeah we sure yes so do we want to talk about a timeline how we would do that or you can although I'd prefer Rond but Ron speaker yeah because Ron he has a lot more experience that would definitely his input but yeah let's bring it at our next meeting let's start that process okay all right um I wanted that why we had you oh you gu that's good if you could send those to to Ron or Jim right Jim or all of us or however you want to do it yeah R your next meeting is April 16th so you could table that yeah okay um I had a note on the extr territorial jurisdiction I wanted to ask you guys

that question as experts um can you guys describe extra uh territorial jurisdiction and how it might appli for us so that is around your anything that's outside of your town boundar in your plant it's actually you're going to be in partnership with County land use and Zoning um so anything that would be potentially annexed in or hasn't been yet annexed in that would be considered extra territorial jurisdiction um typically what happens is it's a two mile boundary like two miles out side of your town boundary is that what's typical across the state um so for instance anything in in an unincorporated area uh that would be potentially um affecting your your town directly is what that entails what that Encompass is right so that two miles in is at basically every direction right so I can at the very tip of copper Stone yep I can go two miles and I'm almost at us40 y right okay as long as it's unincorporated okay and the real concern there Chris is going to be when a developer wants to develop outside Town limits and they do that for the purpose of using County development standards as opposed to the town what I can tell you from experience has been and thank goodness to Gary P in the county that did happen several years ago and the developer was very up front we're only going to build this neighborhood if we're able to connect to the town's sewer so the county stopped right then and said in order for us to even docket this request and to consider it you bring us proof that the town has agreed

to serve your neighborhood as you present it or propose it with sewer they brought it to us there were huge density concerns we didn't reach an agreement and that project went nowhere so I definitely applaud the county because before that particular project that exact scenario happened where there were communities that were built that would not have been approved even without the standards that we are going to implement they were built then they connected sewer and then they were annexed afterwards it was essentially an end your architectural standards so that's why we need standards so that you know same thing if you're outside but you need to connect to sewer it's easy for us to say here they are and you either meet it or you don't so but but that's the extra territorial as I see it and fortunately the county is now working with the town can you guys send us a A Links or some some articles maybe kind of describing that just just so we can all get more Savvy with that yeah uh so the APA the American Planning Association indana chapter has a ton of resources for plan commission members around all kinds of questions like this happy to send you guys the links okay great thank you um the uh next next question I was on 38 there's a map there it's the same map that we looked at before yeah can you blow up blow that up again please okay so in the Far West there

there is a light pink or a light purple yeah which is the well in the center right yeah right so Regional Center okay then right right behind it is that dark yeah the town commercial right so that commercial area it that's just south of the wellness center is currently not developed correct right and then what's to the West there is that Do It Best Hardware and all that right okay so how do we does the plan commission anything that goes into that town commercial how does that does that come before the the plan commission that's already in the Pud hospital had a PUD Hospital approved everything in the Pud where and the Planning Commission approved everything so as long as it meets the Pud then it's approved as a zoning administrator I can proove it without going to the Planning Commission but if it's a project that might be a scope that might be questionable then it would go to the Planning Commission so like the Strip Center that's going going in here now it doesn't really have to come to the Planning Commission it's already in the Pud it meets all their requirements and and Jim that P do you know when that was start bought in 2019 so 2020 21 maybe just curious it just I'm I know that there have been questions in the asked about you know the Starbucks showing up and some of the other things that have that have shown up without going through the plan commission so I'm

trying to do we want to how do we how do we control anything that goes into there at this point you can change your ordinates well you have to try to change a PUD and it's been approved the Pud you can't change yeah that won't change you can amend it uh but you can't change it you can make some amendments to it and I don't think that you can make an amendment that isn't requested after it's been approv because it's better okay so what control do we have at all what goes in that area none well and the reason I say that and I'm I'm not being a wiseacre that was approved by the plan commission long before I were there and there were I assume there were some type of stipulations in that approval right it's all in PUD and I copy that okay yep it architectural and everything okay can you is it in our our ordinance book or something like that or can you send it to me yeah okay okay um yeah the the other question I had I think this is what you mentioned early on about I had a question about the realtor and Builder focus group and some of the key takeaways that's what you're referring to before right yeah CLE okay yeah the need need for more housing density is needed to balance the town's growth with infrastructure dollars it just kind of sounds like a we're heading towards McCordsville but I get the process there

how much is up to you but to have that balance if you want to support your infrastructure that the degree that so another question on page 40 there's a reference to a unified development ordinance Udo what does that mean what is that the okay yeah so unified development ordinance it's a local policy instrument that combines traditional zoning and subdivision regulations along with other desired city regulations such as design guidelines design standards design regulations and flood plane and storm water management to one document so developers reference that they would be coming in to you okay so we currently do not have one of those is that right the county is just getting ready to adopt a Udo talk to cayb today okay she's working on that it's it's a big process for yes it is so it's one of those things we' want to see the county and you know some other municipalities and then look at theirs and see if that's what we learned about yeah so they're they're recommending we do it sounds like yeah so the comp is land use focused and then the Udo is zoning like they're compliment okay all right those were all my questions I we're all I think you guys that really obviously put a lot of effort in this and it shows a lot of great graphics and a lot of good content so I appreciate your efforts any other questions thank you very much for answering questions and concerns and I think with the one addition that we

discussed this evening is there a motion regarding I'll make a motion to approve the 2025 comprehensive plan with the proposed amendment discussed earli I'll second that so it has been moved are there any other comments discussion appreciate your hard [Music] work all those in favor of approving the comprehensive plan as submitted with the one Amendment discussed this evening please indicate by saying I I I oppos motion carries thank you nice job and we appreciate thank you and we'll need you'll need to publicly notice for a public hearing so when you know when that agenda item comes up um we'll open the public hearing for comments and then close if you'd like a thank you very much thank you yes thank you okay we do not have any new business on our agenda so I think there's only other one matter and that is a motion to adjourn well so point a question here bill so as we talked earlier about an agenda item for the I think that's the standing next what she was look at it and that's do we add that how do we capture that coordinate

withw because as the president of the plan commission he sets the agenda right well we we would they would probably be captured in the meeting minutes right yeah yeah yeah okay yeah go so if the minute say that it was requested that on the April 16th meeting on the agenda that we put start the process to consider development standards but again that that's something that Ron needs to put on there exactly but yeah I think that we make sure that that like to do that exactly yeah absolutely that being said I'll make a motion toj second it's been double seconded double second see no discussion all those in favor of a journey please indicate by saying I I thank you very much for