City Council - Regular Meeting

And I will say against stubborn forces and money interest and she has not laid down. Um and so I want to give you credit and uh publicly commit to getting this to the finish line. Um so I want to just say that. And um in terms of item six, I also support this ordinance. I'm excited about it. And as many have already shared, I believe the way we get out of this housing crisis is through a three-pronged approach, increased supply, uh, stabilization, and subsidy. And this, uh, program here meets the last one, and I think we've already begun the first, and so I look forward to really also making a a serious effort on the second. Thank you.

Thank you, counselor. Further discussion on items 6 through 10. Councilman Kovs.

Thank you, Madam President. I just want to thank my colleagues for their support on this particular ordinance. I just really appreciate it. every comment that has been made um has been uh just super helpful to this discussion and I think this is going to be an ongoing discussion that we have as a body and I know we're all going to hopefully operate in good faith as we talk about everything that is before us and uh just want to say thank you uh for your help and your your sponsorship and your support. We know that people need immediate relief. They need that relief right now. And so that is what this uh problem is is trying to solve. And um it's going to go to the people who again need it the most. direct subsidy uh with priority of people between 60 to 80% of AMI if they've got that utility bill or uh they've got an emergency payment that they need to make in order to stay in their homes and to prevent people from being displaced. And then for number seven, I just want to say thank you to Councelor Peterson. I know that in my neighborhood, um, Councelor Peterson is a star. Uh, because, well, no, seriously. Uh, and and and I would say the reason is is because she's really taken the bull by the horns as it relates to these student housing priorities. And I know we've got a lot of work to do al along those lines. and she's been, I would say arguably this entire term the preeminent champion of student housing policy. And we sometimes won't always agree, we might agree to disagree. I think that's a part of the the the the process. But I will say that everything that she has put forth uh

related to student housing um has been uh really thought out and and well-intentioned and she's been working tirelessly this entire term to try to get some of these pieces of legislation passed. So, I'm just here to be on the record to say this on the record. Um, I hope that as a body we truly truly help Councelor Peterson advance some of these things that have been a priority since the beginning of this term. We're now in year four. I don't think that in a perfect world I was there too in my first term where I was so ambitious and I wanted to get everything done and sometimes that's not possible. But I really really hope hope that some of the ordinances that she has proposed we will get across the finish line before this term is up and we help you know deliver on those important priorities and promises she has made to her constituents but also their important uh priorities for other neighborhoods across the city including mine. So, I just want to say thank you, Councelor Peterson. Uh, and I look forward to continuing to work with you on the ordinances that you have put forward. Thank you.

Thank you. Further discussion 6 through 10, Councilman Vargas. And then we're all very polite tonight. Deputy Majority Leader Harris,

usually stand because I know my colleagues always say things so well and they always say exactly what's in my heart. But I have to stand right now because I want um to reflect back on the first time that I walked into this building and with the heart around housing and really bringing that into the council to really for us to advocate and to make it a priority to make it a part of our legislation to be engaged in housing and understanding how we can move housing better. I'm standing here because I'm getting ready to lead the council and I can tell you deep in my heart I am feeling really good about what has happened especially within this administration and within this period of time around how much the city has invested and thought thought clearly about how do we move how do we make sure that people are staying in their homes how do we make sure that the homeless are not freezing and dying because they have no shelter. And also, how do we start to really really attack these things uh these different things that for years, for years and years, politicians been kicking it down the road as if it was not important. We are in this problem, housing crisis, because nobody wanted to take it on. Of course, we're going to have different opinions. Of course, we're going to see things differently. of course because it's a big thing and not too many people have been able to deal with it. But I want to say how proud I am of my colleagues and the people I've been serving with because you took it on. It's serious. It's a part of our legislation. It's a part of what we are trying to do for the city and a part of keeping people in their home. And I can't say how happy I am as I lead the council that this is

going to be left in really great hands. and Councilwoman Peterson, yours is the the toughest between Airbnbs and student housing. We got to figure it out because families need homes, too. And we need to keep creating families. And how can you create families? How do you have families if you have no home for them? So, thank you for allowing me to say that for my colleagues. Thank you. Thank you, Councilwoman. Councilman Vargas. It's only first. Yes, please.

Wow. Hello everybody. I'm glad that we here together for the um ordinance six. I always give it a little brief for the Provident Rhode Island. I say Pro Rhode Island because it's not for the hot state. It's only for the Providence. Give it a little hope. That's why I say hope can apply for that and also can qualify for this um that Monica we can give it we receive and we give it back. That's what we need. Thank you so much. Thank you Councilman Vargas.

Thank you Madam President. I raise our number six because we know that we going through a crisis and everybody my colleagues want to help everyone. But we had to do a balance. Remember that property owners are the one who pay the taxes for this city to run. We had to make a balance and that's why this ordinance is putting $1 million aside to help those people who really need. We're not going to pay the full rent, but sometimes you fall short 100, 200, $300. It's a huge opportunity for to help our community not to get evicted and at the same time we saving the property owners a headache because to evict somebody is not easy. It's not easy for the tenant. It's not easy for the property owner neither. It's cost money both ways. And I would like to ask my colleagues to think about it when we put these kind of local laws or city laws called ordinance to think twice. Number six is a good one and that's why it's going to get refer to hope. Hope means and in Spanish esperansa. And I know every single members of this committee have hope for a better life,

a better city, a better future and I'm very proud to support this one and that is now is in the hands of this committee. Please consider think about it how useful this ordinance will be but at the same time let's think about uh no property taxes no service thank you thank you further discussion items 6 through 10 council

thank you madam president I'll keep my remarks uh brief as most of the important substances has been shared um but I just want to speak very quickly on seven and six. Um adding my my voice to the choir. Um definitely want to just share uh my gratitude and support to Councilwoman Peterson for her leadership on this very difficult task. I I don't envy any of my colleagues that have a lot of student housing. Um there's a lot of challenges. Obviously, you know, some positives, you know, attending parties here and there. I'm sure you guys do. But um what I want to truly say though is that we not only need to support our our colleague in in the passage of this ordinance, but the implementation of it. Um we have seen in the past, and I'm not going to get into specifics, um my council colleague here pass uh ordinances um and the administration just simply doesn't enforce it for whatever reasons, you know. Um, and I don't want to make sure that this ordinance doesn't um, you know, also become one of those. Um, it's no point of passing an ordinance if the city isn't going to implement. So, whatever we need to do to make sure that this ordinance is, uh, fully implemented and enforced, um, we all need to have uh, Councilwoman Peterson's back and support on that, and I'm truly uh, committed to to do that. Um, and for the record, you're a superstar in every award, not just Um, and just quickly on item number six, um, obviously want to give my colleague uh, Councilman Gongov's um, a lot of credit uh, and gratitude for his leadership on this uh, ordinance. Um, because this ordinance is going to help people that that need the the help uh, the most. And and now um as you all are are much aware um I've spent some some years of of my life working with our unhoused neighbors

and that's who I think that of who this is would help the most. Uh folks that uh need that little bit of assistance to to get into an apartment um or you know might have issues with substance abuse and you know lost a job on a very temporary basis uh to get back on on track. Um, but I also, you know, want to voice uh some of the other things that that have been shared in the sense of this isn't, you know, intended to uh attack or cure or or replace uh the core issue at hand. And and the core issue at hand is extremely high rents. Um, this isn't going to lower rents. Um, this isn't going to uh create more housing. Um what this is going to do is is provide that temporary relief which like my colleague uh Roy has mentioned is part of of the multi-prong approach that this council has uh been truly invested in. Um and I do have uh you know some amendment ideas um that I will share in committee. Um but I just want to close my remarks by saying I think this is a very positive uh step in in the right direction. it falls into the priorities of this uh body. Um and I also want to give a lot of gratitude uh to to my colleague for his leadership on this. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, counselor. Further discussion items 6 through 10. Madame President, President Prom.

Thank you, Madam President. Uh I'll speak on uh item number seven and uh number six. uh ditto to uh the efforts and the strong passionate uh representation in your ward, Councilwoman Shelley Peterson. I think that uh it speaks to the volume of how the dedication that you have, but I think it resembles all of our dedication in this body and so I think that you have already the support of the majority. So this one is going to be an easy one at in my committee. Thank you. And number seven, I think uh looking at how we all signed on to this because uh I think for the first time we're all behind this because we know we've all acknowledged that we're in a crisis, a crisis that we see it in our neighborhoods. Um, I commend the mayor for quickly acting and uh and proposing this rent uh this this uh uh ordinance or uh resolution and this plan and that he already knew what our constituents need and uh need to for our communities and our families to get to the next level so that way they don't end up on the street. I think that we didn't have a we didn't need a a uh a study to figure out that uh we need to continue to help our families and our kids in our in our community. So I commend him for that. I commend all of us for signing on. I commend uh also uh Councilman Gonov who's also has received that message from us and as we move forward uh seeing the economic challenges that we face in our state in our country and in especially during this time that we see that's going to get even harder. Imagine uh this time

around uh these proposals are super crucial and that we need to get it right. That's why I also signed on and this needs to be a package. We as a city council have done tremendously in terms of addressing uh some of the housing councilman Royy's mentions and people keep saying that we need the three more housing subsidy what was the third one stabilization but I also need uh the and that we continue to work on is the help that homeowners uh need for those who have been living in their homes and need that help with that boiler that we need to continue to replenish that money so that way they could remain in their homes. So, it's a package. And lastly, as we continue to debate and uh look at the studies and look at the numbers, just look at our our medium income in the districts that we represent and then ask yourself who do we represent and I hope that as we continue to deliberate during this crisis that we keep those things in mind. Thank you.

Thank you. Further discussion 6 through 10. Uh hearing none. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? The motion passes. Madame clerk, please refer item six to the committee on finance. Seven to the committee on hope. Eight to the committee on finance. Uh sorry, 8 n and 10 to the committee on finance. So noted. Item 11. Madam President, majority leader watching to the reader of item 11 and pass on a voice vote. Second. Madam President, we have a motion and a second. Any discussion on item 11?

Hearing none. Uh, Madame Clerk, please open the vote. Madame President, before she open it, could we have that read into the number 11?

Certainly, Madame Clerk. Thank you. Whereas Thunder, a Clydesdale horse who was part of the Providence Police Department's mounted command, has passed away at age 12. And whereas Thunder honorably served the city of Providence and its residents since his arrival in 2019. And whereas Thunder shared a special bond with Officer Jose Mendes and Sergeant Steven Corville, who will both deeply miss him. And whereas as an honorable member of the mountain command, Thunder was responsible for marching in parades, greeting adults and children during tours of the stables in Roger Williams Park, and assisting in crowd control efforts at large public and private events. Now therefore, be it resolved that the city council of the city of Providence expresses its gratitude to Thunder for his years of service towards this city and its residents and expresses its condolences to Officer Mendes, Sergeant Corville, and the Providence Police Department Mounted Command. And be it further resolved that this resolution shall be transmitted to the Providence Police Department Mounted Command.

Thank you, Madame Clerk. Thank you, Councilwoman. Please open the vote. The vote is open. The vote is now closed. You have 12 eyes, three absent. The motion carries. The matter is approved on a voice vote. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Item 12. Madam President, majority leader, motion to wave the reader item 12 and pass on a board.

Second, Madam President, we have a motion and a second. Any discussion on item 12? Hearing none. Madam clerk, please open the vote. The vote is open. The vote is now closed. You have 12 eyes, three absent. The motion carries. The matter is approved on a voice vote. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Item 13, Madam President. Majority leader

motion to w the read of item 13 and pass on a voice vote. Second, Madam President. Have a motion and a second. Any discussion on item 13? Hearing none. Madam clerk, please open the vote. The vote is open. The vote is now closed. You have 11 eyes, four absent. The motion carries. The matter is approved on a voice vote. Item 14. Madam President,

majority leader. Motion to weigh the reading of item 14 through 27. Second, Madame President. We have a motion and a second. Discussion on items 14 through 27. Majority leader.

Thank you, Madam President. I rise on item 14. It's pretty standard. It's the resolution authorizing the um sales actually of 700 Allen Avenue, the old DPW building. This is requesting that it be transferred to uh the P8 agency. Uh I also rise on item 15 which is asking for an outside independent fiscal and a study of the impact that the rent stabilization uh ordinance will have in the city of Providence. The reason why I put this resolution together, Madame President, is because we had two experts uh one that was hired by the council and our own expert uh Lawrence Mancini from the administration. They look at in my view at the same data and they came back with different uh uh information to us. It is extremely hard to make a decision on an ordinance that will have a tremendous impact in the city uh and the people of Province and the taxpayers uh with information that is not matching. So therefore I uh put this resolution together that basically asked for an independent uh fiscal analysis uh because I feel that it is uh extremely important that we have uh an opinion from a body from an entity uh and from a side that has not expressed uh interest or or or favorability on such an important uh ordinance one way or the other. Uh so that's why I I put this together. uh because we need responsible and objective uh results and numbers here before we make a determination on that. I thank you so much for your time.

Thank you councelor Councilman Vargas.

Thank you madam president. I rise about number 14 and 15. I want to talk about 14 first. We selling everything we have like a hot potato. The problem is the sellers that we have and this administration, they want to give everything for free. Now, I need to know where we going to be putting the mattress uh depot. I don't want to make the same mistake that we make for the salt that we sell. We sold the property with the salt in it and then we didn't have nowhere to put the salt. It's so easy for the administration to go say and say, "Oh, we're going to rent it from somebody somewhere somehow paying high rent and that rent is coming from the taxpayers including myself, yourself and yourself. So before we give this to the to the city, I would like to ask who to the chairperson of a city property to be careful. They just give a yes like that. ask where we going to put the mattress drive, the transfer station that we have there because under 700 All Islands Avenue is where they storage all the trash cans and the recyclers. Remember that. And the old directors will say, "Oh my god, we sold them. We don't know where to put this." No. First of all, we have to find out where what what we going to be doing with these departments. that is so working so well for the city because everybody bring the mattress every Saturday to the mattress depot. We taking

uh e-waste, computers, televisions, you name it. So the city is getting clean at least I would say maybe 40%. If we sell this property, remember, you will have a mattress in front of your house, you don't know, you don't know what to put. And they will say, "Oh, bring it to the dump." The dump wants to charge $70 per mattress. And then they will say, "Oh, call 311." 111 will say, "Oh, sorry. 311 will say, uh, call West Management." Then West Management will say, "Put in a plastic bag." The plastic bag cost you $3 and a nightmare to put it in, especially the mattress wet. Plus, West Manager will charge you $40, I'm sorry, $38 to pick it up. So, we going to go back 20 years and this city is going to call the mattress city. I won't go crazy with 700 Allens Avenue. Just sell it. just because we want to sell it. We've been selling a lot of properties and we don't know for how much we're selling it and value or property value are very high especially to our own properties. That's why we paying high property taxes. So that's one. Second 15 m u sorry to to everyone this or this resolution is a good one to find out what will be the impact to everyone. How much rent is going to go up? How much property taxes are we going to lose or gain?

How many people will walk out of the city and say, "Look, I'm not dealing with that council." And then they will walk out, they will bring their business with them and leave a bunch of people with no jobs. You better get prepared for the future. If one people move and they move the business, that business is taking the jobs with it and people they're not going to follow them because we used to work around the corner. And that's why we are here to do our best to create good ordinance, good ideas to help our constituents. That's why we're here. That's why they elect us. So we have to be very very careful what we wish for because we might be wishing for something wrong. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you. Further discussion 14 through 27. Councilman Gonovs.

Thank you, Madam President. I support this and the reason why I support this is because I have been consistent regardless of what anybody says on on this issue. Look, I've gotten since the rent stabilization ordinance has been introduced, I've been attacked by people who disagree with me. I've gotten ridiculed by people who disagree with me. I've been threatened by people who disagree with me. But there's one thing that has always been consistent. Regardless of the issue, I study the issue and I do my homework. I think that when we've got any ordinance, doesn't matter what the ordinance is, especially an ordinance of this magnitude, I think it's crucial that we do our homework. And I just want to say I know a lot of people are doing their homework. This is not to diminish the hard work that has gone into putting together this ordinance. This is not to diminish the hard work that everyone has done to put this together. In fact, there have been probably hundreds of hours poured into this. But if there's anything that I've learned from my training, and in fact I'm, you know, I' I've been out of school for quite some time, my higher education. Um, but as some of you know, I'm doing a master's in public administration at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. And one of the things that the practitioners teach you is that it's really, really important to be datadriven in your decision- making. That's always been what I've done throughout my two terms

in office. Some of my colleagues may not know that about me, but if I go back to my first term, there are budgets that I have voted against because I've looked at the numbers. And if the numbers don't work, then we're doing our constituents a disservice. So I believe in good faith we have to look very closely at the implications good and bad. I'm not here to to purport that this thing is good or this thing is bad. That's not my role. My role here is to be objective and to look at the numbers and to make informed decisions, policy decisions based on the information that I have before me. What I will say is I have heard uh the testimony. I've read through the letters and I've also seen two experts and we can call them both experts. I'm not going to disparage any of them and say this person's not right. This person's wrong. They are experts. They're both experts. But they're clearly arriving at different conclusions. And I must admit, I have a bias. Larry Mancini has been a part of this city for 40 plus years. Every time we have gone through a budget, I literally will call the assessor's office. I will look at the data. I model the data. I pull up the spreadsheets on my computer. I think about my elderly people on a fixed income in my neighborhood and I do the math. I look at the tax rates. I say like, okay, if the tax rate shifts this amount or this amount, what are the

implications on that person who lives in my neighborhood? And it's because I'm fighting for the person who I don't want to get displaced because they bought their property in the 80s or the 90s and now it's worth $950,000 because of the re-evaluations that we've seen over the years. Look, the numbers don't lie. And I think that this is something that I have been talking to the staff about is if there is a shift in the tax burden, $1 million, $2 million, $3 million, $17.5 million, which is a projection that Larry has made. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but I want to study it and I want to see exactly what it looks like. So, I think it behooves us as a body to invite both of the experts in to and I know they've shared their their piece and I'm looking forward to talking to Tommy just sent me an email. Um, I want to hear their methodology. How did you arrive at the conclusion that you arrived at? Which studies did you look at? empirical studies that got you to this to this number and this outcome. Because truly, if we think about what has happened in our city over the last couple years, and I mean, I can think about some of this stuff off the top of my head. We had an 11 million settlement as a result of the the Gansolves accident. That was a major hit to our budget. We had to raise taxes because of it. that hurt people in our community. I have again in the past voted against budgets because we have raised taxes because that impacts the most vulnerable people in our community.

And with something like this, it's we can't be and I know no one's being willy-nilly about it. I know people are taking this really seriously, but we have to really hone in on the data and the numbers and objectively having a third party, not Larry, not Tom, because I'm sure there are biases on on both sides, saying this is how much it could theoretically cost would allow us to make a better informed decision on behalf of our constituents. the the Jamal Gonzal's case, perfect example, a major hit to the budget that resulted in us having to work with our tax rates to do what we needed to do to to to uh balance the budget. The $18 million school settlement that we had for God's sakes. So, any shift in the in the tax burden, whether it be $1.5 million or 17.5 million, it has real implications. And you can say what you want. You can attack me. You can say whatever you want. I've been consistent on this issue. I've been on the record on this issue for years. Go back to every single budget. I literally am on the record about doing my homework and studying the numbers. And I think that's what we need to do here. And I hope that we do it fast because I'm sure everybody wants to move with urgency. But I do think that having an independent party study the numbers, pulling apart our assessment data, thinking about how it's going to impact our wards is an objective and a positive thing to do. Again, you may disagree with me, but I I really do think that if we're able to undergo that

exercise, it's going to give us more confidence about the policies that we put forward. And so I I highly highly encourage this body to not like politicize trying to get a third party independent study, but to just like just let's let's just do it and see what happens. I think the taxpayers deserve that and I think we all deserve that as policy practitioners who are trying to make the right decisions on behalf of all of our constituents. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you. Further discussion items. Uh, Councilman Reyes.

Thank you, Madam President. Um, I am rising to oppose IM15. Um, not because I am against analysis or transparency. Uh, but I do think this uh resolution is built on um in my view a misguiding premise that we somehow lack independent analysis. We don't. We already commissioned an independent expert Tom uh Sigor uh excuse me Sigoros who is not a employee of the city or the city council. Uh he is a public finance consultant, a researcher at Brown and someone with decades of experience advising governments across this country. He did uh exactly what this res resolution is asking for, which is a careful, transparent, and grounded fiscal analysis of this policy. And what did he find? He found that over the long term, the fiscal impact of property tax collections is likely negligible because a city resets tax rates annually. He modeled the risk. He explained assumptions. He didn't overstate certainty. That's what independent analysis looks like. Now, contrast that with what we've been presented from the administration and others. We're told the city we're told the city quote could experience property tax revenue losses ranging from 1.9 million to 3.75 million annually. and under certain modeled conditions up to 17 12 million. That is an eight-fold range. That's not precision at all. It's really a shock in

the dark. And um we're told these projections rely on quote certain modeled conditions. Uh yet this council was never told what those conditions actually are. We're also told they rely on quote comparable studies, but those studies were never provided to this council either. So, we're left to infer. And when you look at what's typically cited in this debate, it leads me to believe they are relying on the same small set of studies that are repeatedly used by the real estate lobby. So, which studies are those? Well, let's actually talk about them because to my colleagues point, I actually did my homework. First, the St. Paul study by Ad Hearn and Gio Kleti. This is the study that gets sa to support claims about declining property values, shrinking tax base, and by extension lost municipal revenue. Those are the same claims we're hearing from this administration and echoed in this resolution. But here's the problem. That's not what the study actually shows. our chief financial officer um who I happen to think is an amazing man came before the hope committee and said quote in St. Paul property values declined by approximately 44% following adoption of rent control but guess what whether he knows this or not that's not actually what the St. Paul study shows the four the 4.4% 4% figure is a modeled relative estimate, not a real drop in prices. The study does not find that property values fell in absolute terms. Prices in St. Paul actually increased after rent stabilization was passed. They just increased more slowly than comparable markets. Here is a direct quote from that study.

after quote after rent control was passed the average price per square foot in St. Paul increased by $10.84 84 cents to 185 uh 2 cents. And more importantly, the entire result is based on a model that estimates what would have happened otherwise, which is counterfactual. That is not an observed reality. And even the authors themselves explicitly caution. And here is a direct quote on the first page of the study. quote, "It is challenging to establish the ca casual effect of rent control on these outcomes." That sentence matters because the administration is taking a study that relies on assumptions, produces relative estimates, and explicitly warns about causation and uses it to make definitive claims about lost value and tax revenue here in province. That is a gigantic leap. And on top of that, the study itself looks at a very specific moment in time right after rent stabilization passed during a volatile post-pandemic housing market. It does not tell us what happens over the long term. It does not isolate all the other economic factors at play and it certainly does not translate clearly to Providence. Now, let's talk about Portland, Maine, because this is another example that keeps getting brought up to support claims about tax base erosion, shifting burdens onto homeowners, and declining property values. And again, those are the same claims we're hearing tonight. But the Portland report being cited is not a peerreed academic study. It is funded by what do you know? The Greater Portland Board of

Realtors. And more importantly, the authors themselves go out of their way to limit how their findings should be interpreted. Let me read this disclaimer directly from the report because this is what the administration's using. The disclaimer goes like this. Quote, "The information and commentary provided in this report report rely on information and data that are not publicly available. While every attempt is made to validate their accuracy, there may be errors and inconsistenc inconsistencies that may impact the underlying findings of this analysis. Estimates made in this analysis are based on our understanding of the current socioeconomic and fiscal conditions of the region as well as a set of projections and assumptions that we believe are reasonable. Results of this report may differ from those used by other parties in evaluating the impact of rent control on the distribution of property valuations and burdens. Even if the underlying assumptions are realized, the results of the analysis may vary from actual realized impacts. In no way will Wallace Economic Advisors LLC be held responsible or have any liability or be subjected to damages as a result of this analysis or information contained in this report. So colleagues, think about what that actually says. The authors are telling you they can't even get behind what they wrote. They say there may be errors. The results are based on assumptions. The results may not reflect real world outcomes. And they explicitly disclaim responsibility for those results. That is not definitive evidence. That is

a model with caveats. And just like St. Paul, this report does not measure actual outcomes. It it constructs a no rent control scenario comparing it to reality and calls the difference quote a loss. That is not again observed data. That's quite literally hypothetical. And even within their own data, property values did not collapse. In fact, many segments saw significant increases. They simply diverged across property types. So again, what we're seeing is model scenarios coupled with what I would call great imagination layered on assumptions and presented as real world impacts. And that's the pattern here. The administration's claim about lost property values, tax base erosion, and shifting burdens are not coming from direct evidence of Providence. They're coming from a modelbased study in St. Paul that cautions against causation and on and an industry funded report in Portland that explicitly disclaims its own certainty and then those and then those are being applied here as if they're settled facts. Meanwhile, the independent fiscal note we commissioned actually explains how our property tax system works, how rates are adjusted annually annually, and why long-term impacts are likely minimum. That to me is transparent. That to me is grounded and that's accountable. So, I come back to the central question, who is actually providing independent reliable analysis? the consultant who shows his work and explains a system or projections built on assumptions, disclaimers and selectively sed studies.

So colleagues, we already have an independent analysis and I I just think this resolution doesn't add any clarity. I think it reinforces the administration's effort to gaslight this council. So I will not vote for this and I urge you to not as well. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Councilwoman Graves.

For number 14, um I agree with my colleague. We have way too many mattresses already out in the streets. Um if we close this facility, where are but where are we going to put them? We this the city does not need an added burden or trying to clean this mess up. I think we are in such a hurry to try to sell off some of these properties. But I agree, where is the money going? How much money are we getting? What I'm not getting the information that we need to So why are we if we're not going to sell them and everybody agrees on a price and agrees on where the money is going, I don't see the need in selling this place. I think we need to have a place where we can drop off stuff, where we can do certain things and I think we need that that property. That's one property that people are aware of and that's one property that is needed. So I will vote be voting um no on that one. As for 15, thank you for sending me the information. Um I looked at it. I too did but some of my homework and looked again. But my biggest thing that was nagging me is we had two evaluations or and it was said that they were biased. Who are we to say they were biased? I mean um and biased to whom? Because I didn't like what was said in one or I did like what was said in the other one. I think we have too. And I think we can all the rest of us can go and look for ourselves. I don't necessarily think we need to be spending more money or need to go out and and look for more. I think we need to go ahead and do what we're

going to do. I think we've been talking about this for a while now. It's time for us to, as my grandpa used to say, do what you got to do on that pot and get up. You know, so we we we need need to start figuring what's going on. And everybody's worrying about the statistics. Those statistics are people. We need to worry about those people that are affected. And the people in this city, the majority of the people in this city are renters. They are not realtors. They are not homeowners, they are renters. So, we need to be listening to their voices. So, I would be saying no on both of those because I think sometimes we we we lose something because even all those statistics, they never really speak about the people. Stop doing that. Stop looking at them as just numbers. look at them as casualties because that's what's happening. If we just think of them with numbers, that's all they are. They're casualties. And I don't want to see any more casualties in our city. As I said in in my prayer, we need to fight to make to make this city a safer, more affordable place to live. And if we're only worrying about what the realtors and what the homeowners, and I'm a homeowner myself, is worried about, then we're losing a lot of people. We really are. And we really need to stop doing that.

We need to start thinking about everybody I know. And remember, all of us, with the exception of maybe a couple, I'll take that back, but the majority of us are in communities where our people rent. The majority of us, that's in my council sisters on the side of me and my council brothers and sisters on the other side of me. We need to worry about them. Worry about them. Don't worry about these numbers. Don't worry about the letters that you're getting in from from Boston and Carpentry and Bristol and Barington and all these things. And thank you so much to our town to our clerk Tina. I appreciate the way you separated it. I don't know if anybody else paid any attention, but you need to. And then you need to open up your hearts and really really reflect, really reflect. And that's all I have to say.

Thank you, Councilman Sanchez.

Thank you, Madam President. Um, thank you, uh, Councilwoman Graves, for for your words. Um, you know, every time you speak, it it really reminds me, you know, of why I signed up to to do this work. Um, you know, sometimes we get lost in the the data sheets and the research books, um, which is important, you know, to to be aware of, but at the end of the day, we we serve the people of private. We don't we don't serve uh research books. We don't serve data tables. We we serve our our neighbors. And your words always um remind us and and point us in that direction. Um, but I quickly just wanted to summarize what my colleague, Councilman Roya said. Um, because he said a lot of a lot of great words. Um, but but there were a lot. Um, but but what he essentially uh said and it's important to talk about because you know that's what we're up against when it comes to policies like rent civilization is there's a lot of influence and capital um out there. Let's just take it for what it is. people that have a lot of resources, a lot of money, um are going to spend a lot of resources, a lot of money when their ability to make unlimited resources and amount of money is is threatened. Um and and that's the unfortunate reality part of of the society that that we live in uh here in in the US. Um we have an uncontrollable uh capitalistic society uh with no limits um especially for the people that have less um and and that's what we're trying to do. We we don't want to take anyone's business or uh way of living. Um some folks called it their their retirement. We're not trying to do that. we all we want to do is have uh certain uh predictable mechanisms in in place uh

for the majority of people that that call the city of Providence home. Um so so that's all I really want to say on on that point. Um folks have been referencing uh the two uh experts that were before us. I I know some of us were were there. Um my my thing is if if you have questions or concerns of any of their numbers um reach out to them uh Mr. Mancini um I'm sure will will pick up any one of our phone calls and I'm sure the same uh is uh for the consultant uh Tom Sigoros. Um if if you have questions or or concerns about their numbers, which it sounds like some folks do, um there's no need to to go get another third study because people are going to have same questions and concerns. Any study or any number that is given, you're going to have questions, concerns. This is a very uh comprehensive uh math equation that that folks are uh predicting. Uh so my ask is there's no need to to duplicate that study. uh if you have questions, concerns of the existing ones that were provided, reach out to those folks um directly and and try to get the answers uh that you're looking for. Thank you, Madam President.

Further discussion 14 through 27 um before I'm sorry, anyone who hasn't spoken yet. All right, back to you Jes.

Madam President, thank you so much. Um just want to address the number 14. The resolution is not pertaining, perhaps I misspoke, it's not pertaining to the sale of 700 Allens Avenue. It's pertaining to the transfer to the parade. It's going to go to committee. There'll be time to uh inquire about it, to talk about it, and then if it does pass committee, it'll come back here. We'll vote on it. It goes to P and then they'll decide which way to go with this property. It's basically just sending it over and uh Going back again to 15, I I I told that I was not going to uh revisit that. Uh but in response to uh some of the comments that were made, I'm actually uh grateful to my colleague uh because he actually illustrated and saved me time so that I don't have to illustrate again the points that he made. So if you look at those points, you will see exactly why I put this resolution together because there is a major difference. And to me and to be honest to the taxpayers, it's only how you look at it. This is a prime example of uh is a half full or is a half empty where we refer to a a glass with water. It's to me it's how you want to look at it. Um and again I said this before let's not be passionate uh about not seeking information and not about not gaining knowledge as to what type of an impact this would have because this is probably the most impactful and the most important vote definitely that will take this year which will have an impact for many many years to come. So if I'm offer an opportunity to re have

real access to uh knowledge here to truth number to a third party why would I shy away from that when we have the resources to do that and we have the time to do that le let's let's not just center around I heard enough because I'm sure I definitely have not heard enough and you know I represent my community And when I vote and I go back to them, I need to explain that. But I'm not going to be able to do that with the information that has been provided to me, I witness some of the uh I witness all of the uh meetings because when I was not in person, I was at home watching it or I was on my phone while I was driving because I know it's a it's critically important. Uh and it wasn't clear when Mr. Sigurus and Mr. seen it sat here before the hope committee. They did not give clear uh defining uh information that I was looking for because they both look at the same study. They book at the same numbers uh and they came up with uh different uh answers. They came up with different numbers which led me to believe that it it's how you want to look at it. All right. So I am not ready to touch that glass until I know what's in it. I want to know is if it's half empty, if it's half full. So I am not moving and that's just me until I get all the information that I need. Thank you, Madam President.

You Councilman Gunos.

Thank you, Madam President. Look, I think we all agree the affordability crisis is the number one problem we're experiencing in the city of Providence. I grew up in a single parent household where it was so hard to make ends meet. It's the number one issue that we're dealing with in the city of Providence. My whole family has practically been displaced from Fox Point because of the affordability crisis, because of urban renewal that happened in the 1960s, because of the redlinining that occurred in my neighborhood. I take this stuff super seriously and I think that like everyone's taking this seriously and I know that and we're all passionate about it. the implications of any policy, big or small. We need to know, and there's never going to be a silver bullet, but we need to know the implications. I'm going to give you a small analogy because I think you guys can all relate to this. How many times do you have a neighbor or a constituent say, "I would love to have a speed lump right in front of my my property." I know given my experience on this council that if I entertain that, I'm going to get 12 to one phone calls from people saying, "Why did you put that speed lump up?" These things are in and that's a small inconsequential example. We're talking about our entire city budget here. And let's do this for a second. Let's remove the landlords from the equation. Let's

remove the renters from the equation because frankly, everybody is self-interested in this argument. As a renter who actually would benefit from this policy, like I would personally benefit from rent control, this policy, right? you we have to remove ourselves from that and say like what are going to be both the shortterm implications and the long-term implications and very objectively I'll I'll go to your studies here too right let's let's remove all of the the studies that have been commissioned by the real estate lobby let's look at the study that you had mentioned the the the the diamond and the mcuade and the keon study in in it or okay there's a study in San Francisco that by the way just so you're aware because look I'm this is objective this is hang on this is objective let me let me let me finish here right this this study says that tenants in controlled units move less often they experience significant savings right like that's objective that's that's what it's saying in this study this is a 1994 study about what's happen what happened in San Francisco as a as a rent control market. And by the way, I poured over dozens and dozens of these studies and I read those disclaimers. I try to figure out who's behind the study, who's who's actually writing the study because to your point, there is bias associated with that. Uh and in that same study, right, that it said some good things, but it also said some other things, right? It said, "We exploit an unexpected 1994 law change that suddenly rent control a subset of San Francisco buildings and their tenants." And again, this is a study that said, you know, it it created

less displacement, it created more stability, but it also talked about how it uh it it created some challenges both both in the short term and the long term. And that's just like objective, right? Like we we we can pour through a lot of these studies. And I'm not saying we study this thing to death. Like we need there's urgency out there. Like we got to do something now. And you know, anybody out there who has an issue with that, we got to do something. Like that's the bottom line. We have to do something. Um, but I would just say that again having a third party study is not necessarily a bad thing to do. I think that I've only known Larry Mancini to be an upstanding professional who when I ask him about the assessment data or how it's going to impact my neighbors, he's only given me the facts, you know, and again, Tom is an expert as well. I don't mean to go on and on about this, but I I just think that this is a big issue that's going to have implications not only on renters, but it'll have implications on homeowners. It'll have implications on the entire city budget. I I I don't see what's wrong with getting a third party study on this. I I I and and again, like this this body

Thank you. Thank you, counselor. Before we continue, I would remind folks that we are not and also for any viewing public. Uh there is no vote on these matters tonight. So we will be referring these all of everything before us to committee uh where there will continue to be further discussion. I I just think that it'd be great if we could if maybe the body won't agree with that. That's fine. I'm just saying. All right. Councilman Reyes, did you want to speak?

I'll just be quick. I'm just processing everyone's uh uh sentiments here. It sounds like to me that instead of wasting more taxpayer dollars on hiring another consultant, it sounds like we just need more clar clarity from our uh CFO and and our consultant that we hired. So maybe we just email them, set up a meeting and say, "Hey, can you explain your methodology a bit more, Tom? these numbers you laid out that are proven centric. I actually appreciate that. I appreciate it, Tom. I appreciate that you provide province centric data. Mr. Msini, can you lay out what you mean by comparative studies? What do you mean by comparative models? Can you lay out that that's it? I I'm not sure what the uh confusion is, but maybe that's the route to take. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you. Further discussion on items 14 through 27 before they are referred to committee for further discussion hearing none. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? I'm sorry. What's the uh Councilwoman?

Oh, right. We're opening the vote. No, we're not. We're just voting. Sorry. We are Wow. Pardon me. We are simply voting to refer these to committee. That is what we were doing on uh all all items 14 through 27. Uh hearing no objection. The motion passes. Madame clerk, please refer 14 to the committee on city property. Uh 15 to the uh the special committee on hope and then 16 through 27 to the special committee on state legislative affairs. So noted. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Item 28. Madam President, Majority Leader, motion to wave the reader on item 28 and pass in a voice vote. Second, Madame President,

we have a motion and a second. Councilwoman Peterson. Hi. If I could please ask the Madame Clerk, if you could please read the resolution.

Absolutely. Whereas multiple sclerosis MS is a chronic, often disabling disease of the central nervous system that affects the brain, spinal cord, and optic nerves. impacting more than one million people in the United States and tens of thousands of residents in Rhode Island. And whereas MS can cause a wide range of symptoms, including fatigue, mobility challenges, vision problems, and cognitive changes, significantly affecting the daily lives of those living with the disease, as well as their families, caregivers, and support networks. And whereas the causes of MS remain largely unknown. And while treatment exists to manage system symptoms and slow disease progression, there is currently no cure. And whereas research awareness and advocacy are critical to improving the quality of life for those living with MS, advancing scientific understanding, and ultimately finding a cure. And whereas the city of Providence recognizes the courage, resilience, and determination of individuals living with MS and the dedication of their families, caregivers, healthc care providers, and community organizations who support them every day. And whereas raising awareness about MS encourages understanding, compassion, and community support, and inspires collective action to improve treatment options, accessibility, and resources for all affected. Now therefore, be it resolved that the City Council of Providence hereby proclaims March as multiple sclerosis awareness month and expresses its gratitude, admiration, and support for all residents and families affected by MS. And be it further resolved that the city council encourages residents,

organizations, and community leaders to participate in events, advocacy, and educational efforts that raise awareness and provide hope for those living with multiple sclerosis.

Thank you very much, Madam Clerk. I um as you were speaking I realized that this is my third time speaking on MS and I remember I'm just having a little flashback to the first year when I was very very nervous to talk about what that was and how it what it meant to me. Um and now I'm very proud about speaking um on behalf of my neighbors, some people that I've met along the way and um I am happy to be doing this one more time. Uh, multiple sclerosis awareness month is often about education, visibility, and understanding the science behind the disease. Um, all of those things obviously they they matter. Um, but today I I wanted to speak um to something a bit more personal. Um, this is perhaps the quieter part of it. Um, and something that awareness doesn't always fully capture. Um, because MS is not just a diagnosis. It's actually a lifelong relationship with uncertainty. It's waking up every day not knowing what your body is going to allow you to do. It's learning sometimes the hard way that energy is not guaranteed. That strength can very much shift at any given time. Um, and that what felt manageable yesterday may feel unbelievably overwhelming today. Unlike the illnesses, unlike so many illnesses that we talk about, MS is not terminal, but it is lifelong. And that reality carries its own weight. There's no clear finish line, no moment where we can say, "This is finally over." Instead, there's a constant process of adjustment, of acceptance, and of learning how to live fully in a body that may not always cooperate. That acceptance is not a one-time decision. And it it happens over and over and over again. It happens in all the small moments, in choosing to keep going, in choosing to adapt and having no choice but to adapt. in finding new

ways to do old things, in grieving what almost instantly changed while still holding on to who you are. There is a resilience in that. It's a quiet, steady resilience that often goes unseen. From the outside, MS doesn't always look the way people expect it to. And that's where awareness still has room to grow. Awareness is not just knowing the name of the disease. It's understanding the lived experience. It's recognizing that someone may be struggling even when it isn't visible. It's leading with patience, with empathy, and a willingness to listen. So, this month, yes, let's raise awareness, but let's also deepen that awareness. Um, I say this talking here as I recognize my very best friend who may or may not be watching. It might have gone past her bedtime at this point, but um who's currently battling the toughest episode of her MS diagnosis yet. Without her, I don't know that I'd be as resilient um as I've become about my disease or that I would be so willing to be open to talk about it. Um when my friend Melissa Martin, who is here today, asked me to come and speak about it one year ago. I ask you to make space for the human side of this. The resilience, the acceptance, the complexity, and the reality of living to dayto-day with something that doesn't define a person, but does shape their experience. With that understanding, that compassion, it's what truly makes awareness matter. I want to take a minute to recognize Melissa Martin. Um, she's here with us today. If I can ask you to stand, Melissa, thank you very much. Just want to give her a round of applause. Melissa asked me to come and speak at Lassolet Shrine last year um just about my experience and with this and she gave me 10 me 10 minutes to speak and I thought it was the most 10gonizing

minutes of my life because I didn't know what to say and she made me feel so um human in my experience because I remember getting in my car right after and feeling um like I had found a space where I could that people really understood what I was kind of experiencing in that moment. So I want to give you just a little bit of a background of of Melissa. Melissa holds a master's degree in human services and she's a community organizer trained by the people's institute for survival and beyond out of New Orleans, Louisiana. She's a communicant at St. finance church and she hosts hosts the annual area MS day at Lassellet Shrine which this year will be held on May 30th if anybody wants to go. Um I just want to give a moment and um a little bit of gratitude to Melissa for allowing me to walk into a space walk into a space where it was completely unknown but making me uh allowing me to feel really um comfortable in a way that I don't think I had ever been before. And I just wanted to tell you here and on record that you've been an inspiration to me. So, thank you very very much. I want to just ask us all to all take a picture with her at the end of the of the night. Um, just for all the wonderful work that she's done throughout many years in in in in the space of MS and and in her in her region. So, thank you very much. Thank you. And thank you very much, Melissa. Thank you, Councilwoman. Further discussion on item 28 hearing. None. Madam clerk, please open the vote. The vote is open. The vote is now closed.

You have 11 eyes, four absent. The motion carries. The matter is approved. Thank you. And I really do want to thank you, Councilwoman, for sharing your story. I know it's not uh an easy thing to do. Um as someone who has several family members with MS, it is deeply important and impactful to me and I I appreciate you for it. Thank you. Uh item 29. Madam President, Majority Leader, motion to weigh the reading item 21 through 31. Second, Madam President, we have a motion on items 29 through 31. Any discussion? Again, me. Oh, Councilman Peterson. Yes,

I told you guys I'd be speaking a lot today. Um so um item number 29 um is um it's a resolution that recognizes the critical role small businesses play in Providence's economy um in our zip code in 02908 and Councilwoman Graves can attest to that we've seen a rapid decline in our small businesses. We've had at least eight or nine businesses closed within the last eight months. And um it really causes a bit of concern for those of us that are trying to figure out how to mobilize our city as we kind of debate these different ordinances to be able to support our community members. Um, this highlights both local challenges and such as multiple closures in the 0298 zip code and disruptions along the Admiral Street Carter and success successful examples from other cities. Um, we're asking for this in the resolution and it's just basically a study um over the course of the next six months to help us assess um what we can do or utilize as targeted investments and policy strategies to stabilize and grow our small business sector. Um the O298 Merchants Collective has done a really great job of highlighting how important the work that we need to continue doing in our small business corridor um has to happen. They're doing amazing work with the these small businesses in this area have really just um mobilized together to really um hone in and try and figure out how to do some of this. But I do believe that our city needs to be supportive of this um with us. And so I'm asking for this opportunity to do a study in our neighborhood, but also um target it to other wards because if I know that if we're seeing this decline just in our zip code in 0298, I know that the other um the other uh neighborhoods are also

seeing it. We've seen and we've heard of closures left and right and it is as we're approaching World Cup and all the different things that might come with an opportunity to bring people into the neighborhood, we want to be able to understand how to also offer opportunity to our neighbors to consistently u mobilize the city forward. So, thank you. Thank you. Further discussion 29 through31. Counciloman.

Thank you, Council President. I just rise on uh also number 29 and thank uh uh my colleague Councilwoman Peterson for putting this forward. Um when I talk to small businesses in my neighborhood and in other places um across the city, I hear a lot of concern that there are a lot of programs from the state or a lot of programs for either very small micro businesses or some of the really big honken businesses that get all sorts of tax breaks and incentives and our small businesses who are like the lifeblood of our community. They live in our neighborhoods. They live and work in our neighborhoods. I can speak to the Hope Street um corridor, for example. A lot of those owners live like within walking distance of their shops. Their their um employees live in within walking distance of their shops. When we have hard situations in the city, people gather in those shops. Like I was talking with the owner of Stock and she says after bad things happen, people will just show up and they're like, I don't even want to buy anything. I just needed to be amongst friends and they are these third spaces. They're both retail, but they're also these third spaces we rely on and they are not getting the supports. it feels like they're not getting the supports that they need to really thrive and we are seeing so many closures even of ones that have existed 40 50 60 years are starting to starting to turn. So I applaud Councilwoman Peterson for this. I just signed on to um co-sponsor and hope that it'll be for the whole city um as well including 0296.

Thank you councelor. Further discussion hearing none. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? The motion passes. Madam clerk, please refer item 29 and 30 to the committee on hope and 31 to the committee on finance. So noted. Item 32. Madame President, majority leader. Uh motion to w the reading of item 32 and pass on a roll call vote. Second. Madam President, we have a motion and a second. Any discussion on item 32? Hearing none. Madam clerk, please call the role. And the vote is now open. Council President Miller. Hi. Deputy Majority Whip Anderwis. Councelor Davidson.

Hi. Majority Leader Espanol. I. Senior Deputy Majority Leader Gonzalez. Hi. Councilwoman Graves. Deputy Majority Leader Harris. I. Councilwoman Peterson. Council President Pro Temporardo is absent. Councelor Royas. Hi. Councilwoman Ryan is absent. Majority Whip Sanchez. Councilman Taylor is absent. Councilwoman Anna Vargas is absent. Councilman Oscar Vargas, you have 11 eyes, four absent. The motion carries. The matter is approved on a roll call vote and the vote is closed. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Item 33. Madam President,

Majority Leader, question to the reading of item 33. Second, Madam President. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion on item 33? Hearing none. All in favor? I I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? The motion passes. Madam clerk, please refer 33 to the claims and pending suits. So noted. Item 34. Madam President, majority leader. Motion to w the reading of item 34 and pass in a voice vote. Second. Madam President. Any discussion on 34? All in favor? I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? The motion passes. Item 35. Madame President, Majority Leader,

motion to w the reading of item 30 pass 35 and pass it a unanimous rising vote. Second, Madame President.

Any discussion? All in favor? I. Any opposed? Any abstension? The motion passes. Madam President, Majority Leader, motion to weigh the uh motion to suspend rule 16B of the rules of the city council in order to take a matter not appearent on a printed docket. Second. Any discussion on that motion? All in favor? I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? The motion passes. Majority leader. Uh Madame Clerk, item 36. Madam President, Madam President, Majority Leader, uh point of personal expression. Let's take item 36 and then come back. Thank you. Motion to wave the reader of item 36 and 37. Second, Madame President,

we have a motion and a second. Any discussions on 36 and 37? Hearing none. All in favor? I. Any oppose? Any abstensions? Uh, madam clerk, please refer 36 and 37 to finance. Uh, so noted. Councilman Sanchez person.

Thank you, Madam President. Very quickly, I just want to invite everyone to a very important celebration tomorrow uh here at city hall. Uh thank you to all the amazing women on our colleague uh council. Let me let me let me let me let me finish please. Um it's a international women's day celebration. Uh big shout out to all of the the amazing women who have uh put this event on. And um I'll definitely be here uh in celebration. Uh there is an amazing uh group of panelists uh that include uh Lena Agustinini from the Rhode Island Food Bank, Rose Albert uh from the Rhode Island uh for Community and Justice, and former uh Councilwoman Nurva La Fortune. Uh the event starts at 5:30. I expect to see all of my male colleagues here. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, sir. Yeah. Uh, Councilwoman Davidson. Uh, thank you, Madam President. I just wanted to say a quick word to my, um, colleague, um, Councilwoman Graves for a very successful Black History Month event that did not happen during Black History Month, but was um, just joyful, edifying, delicious, spiritual, historical. It was wonderful. And I just want to really thank you for a really thoughtful, terrific evening, you know, celebrating all the different aspects of black and African-American culture in our city. It was great. Thank you so much,

Madame President. Majority Leader, being that there's no further business on the calendar, a motion to adjourn. And tonight, we adjourn in the name of Francisco Jose Batista, who passed away last week. Second, Madame President. Any discussion? All in favor? I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? We are adjourned. We will see you tomorrow. Thank you. Thank you. Please uh stick around for a quick picture.