City Council - Special Meeting

We'll go ahead and call this meeting to order. This is a special council meeting Thursday, August 6, 2026. Can we all please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, thank you. Will the clerk please call the roll?

Mayor Robertson? Here. Deputy Mayor Gilbert?

Here.

Council Member Paul? Here. Council Member Urban?

Here.

Council Member Fletcher?

Here. All right. First up, we have public hearing number one. Would the clerk please read public hearing number one?

Resolution number 2026-119R, a resolution of the City of St. Cloud, Florida, approving a development agreement between the City of St. Cloud and the City of St. Cloud Redevelopment Agency, CRA, and Atlantic Housing Partners, LLLP, for the development of 2.83 acres city-owned real property located in the downtown CRA district, providing for the construction of a mixed-use project, including a parking garage with public spaces to include a funding contribution of $6.250 million. for the CRA and 460 from the city and a lease and ultimate transfer of the city property for Atlantic Housing Partners, LLLP, authorizing the mayor to execute the development agreement providing an altered date.

Good evening, Mayor and City Council. Scott Davidoff, Deputy City Manager. What you have before you is resolution number 2026-119R. As you're aware, city staff has been working with Atlantic Housing for the construction of a mixed-use project on 2.83 acres of city-owned property located in the downtown CRA to include a dedicated parking garage for public use. RFP 2025-010 was awarded to Atlantic Housing by the CRA following a competitive process. Atlantic Housing's proposal tentatively named City Center at St. Cloud includes the following, a minimum of 120 residential units with required parking, a minimum of 15,000 square feet of commercial space with required parking, 200 parking spaces for dedicated city use, and Atlantic Housing will be spending in excess of $50 million on this project. During the June 23rd Historic Preservation Board meeting, Atlantic Housing presented their proposal and received feedback on a number of items that they have now incorporated into their design that they'll show in just a few moments here. And on the agreement itself, a couple of points. Upon execution of the agreement, the city shall enter into a zero-payment ground lease. Upon completion of the project, including the off-site improvements, the property shall be conveyed to Atlantic Housing. For the funding, the CRA, who just 20 minutes ago authorized their portion of this where the CRA would pay Atlantic Housing $6,250,000 upon completion of the parking garage. And then the city shall pay Atlantic Housing an additional $460,000 upon completion of the entire project. And at this point, staff recommends approval of resolution 2026-119R and Atlantic Housing, Scott Culp is here to present to the city council.

All right. Would the applicant like to speak to the council?

Thank you. Scott Culp for Atlantic Housing. Just very briefly, thank you for the opportunity we've had working with you for the last year and a half or so to try and bring this to this point. We think the development agreement is at the point now where we're ready to proceed with full permitting. We've completed our due diligence. You've heard comments about the revisions that have been made at the request and very good input of your Historic Preservation Review Board and in coordination with OUC and some of their needs within the property. And the development has progressed to the point where we can believe we're good to enter into the development agreement and proceed with design and permitting. I can go through, if you need some, the elevations of where we are today, or I'll just be able to answer questions. The conceptual master plan, is within the development agreement that has been published, and all of the requirements that we have with regard to moving forward are built into that development agreement. So I'm available to answer any questions.

All right. Anyone in the audience like to speak on this item? And counsel? All right, can I get a motion? Motion to approve. Motion to approve. Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Second. Second from Council Member Urban. Will the clerk please call the roll?

Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Aye. Council Member Fletcher. Aye. Council Member Paul.

Aye.

Council Member Urban.

Aye.

Mayor Robertson.

Aye.

Motion carries 5-0. Thank you.

Thank you, Scott. And obviously you gave a great presentation earlier. I like the fact that you said it's not a Section 8 project, and by law no private property owner can turn down a Section 8 voucher. But 250 parking spaces, I just want to clarify for everybody, 250 parking spaces are going to be dedicated solely for the residents of this community. There's going to be between 450 and 500 total, but 250 of those are just for our downtown, where right now we only have 75. So that's what the CRA is putting, the 6.25 million, or six and a half? What is it, 6.6? 625. 625. That's what the money's going towards. It's not going towards any of the residential units. It is going solely towards the parking garage spaces for our downtown. Will the clerk please read item number two?

Final public hearing for ordinance number 2026-07. An ordinance of the City Council of City of St. Cloud, Florida adopting a large scale comprehensive plan amendment pursuant to section 163.3184 Florida statutes assigning a future land use designation of approximately plus minus 743.53 acres identified as Whaley Platte. Project CPA 25-00011 generally located north of Lake Tohopalaga, east of Osceola Road, south of Kissimmee Park Road, and west of Lake Tohopalaga Road. from MXD mixed-use county to MIX mixed-use city, providing for many of the official feature land of the comprehensive map, filing the Planning Commission's recommendations, proof of publication, applicability, effect, severability, copies, and file an effective date.

All right. Will the clerk please read item number three into the record as well?

Final public hearing for ordinance number 2026-08, an ordinance of the City Council of the City of St. Cloud, Florida, providing a zoning amendment, a zoning map of the land development code of the City of St. Cloud, Florida, specifically changing the zoning designation approximately plus minus 7.43.53 acres, identified as Whaley Flat, Project CMA 25-00014, from MXD Mixed-Use County to MIX Mixed-Use City. Generated and located north of Lake Tohopalaga East, of Osceola Road, south of Kissimmee Park Road, and west of Lake Topalaga Road, providing for entering the designation of the official zoning map, filing and planning recommendations, proof of publication, servability, and effective date.

Good afternoon. Jeffrey Ball, Community Development Director. So this is a companion application, CPA and ZMA. This was presented to you a couple weeks ago at that meeting. City Council continued the application. So I'm gonna run through the PowerPoint presentation. So this DRC case is CPA 25-00011 and ZMA 25-0014. Again, this is a comprehensive plan amendment and zoning map amendment for Whaley-Platt. The background was this was annexed via ordinance number 2026-06 on May 14, 2026. It's approximately 743.53 acres. The density ranges from five to 25 dwelling units per acre. And the proposed density is roughly six units per acre. Development is compatible with the surrounding area. The CPA was transmitted to the state on May 21st, 2026 in ordinance 2026-07. to the Florida Department of Commerce for interagency review. The Department of Commerce did not provide any comments. The existing future land use is mixed use in the county. The proposed future land use in the city is mixed use. Existing zoning is MXD, which stands for mixed use in the county. The proposed zoning is MIX, mixed use in the city. Facilities, there's no adverse impacts on the city facilities. So this is the existing future land use. The blue indicates that it's an MXD land use category. This is the existing zoning district. Again, this is a blue, which indicates an MXD zoning district in the county. So staff recommendation is approval of ordinance number 2026-07. and 2026-08 Planning Commission recommendation on March 17, 2026, approval of ordinance number 2026-07 and 2026-08. City Council requested action as approval to adopt the ordinance of 2026-08. The first reading and introduction was March 12, 2026. The Transmittal Hearing was May 14, 2026, motion to continue at the August 6, 2026 meeting, or to the August 6 meeting, which was originally heard on July 16, 2026. So, again, staff is asking for approval of both the CPA and ZMA, and I believe the applicant is here to present their findings as well as representative from the school board.

Thank you. All right. Thank you, Jeffrey. Will the applicant like to speak on this item?

Good evening, Mayor, Councilmembers, John Adams, RJWA Inc., 8 Broadway, Kissimmee, Florida, 34741. We're the agent for the applicant, Hawk Platt, LLC. We've reviewed the staff report on both items. We're in agreement with it and staff's recommendation of approval. I'm going to keep this short because most of you have already heard from us in detail. Again, I agree with the staff report of changing from mixed-use comp plan in the county to mixed-use comp plan in the city. Same with the zoning. This property was annexed into the city May 14th under the JPA between the city and the county that was adopted in 2014. Additionally, policy 1.16 of the East Lake Toho element, which the city adopted in 2015 under Ordinance 2015-5, directs the city to rezone lands inside the conceptual master plan area to mixed-use district. The review is complete. The city staff reviewed both applications with no objections and recommends approval. Your Planning Commission recommended approval on both applications unanimously. The state reviewed the comp plan, returned no comments and no objections. FDOT found zero change in trip generation because the development program does not change. On the schools, let me be clear where our client stands. We want a school here. A site has been a part of this plan from the concept plan that was approved in 2021 and has carried through every approval since. Our interest in the district's interest is the same. The community and the city are better off with a strong, high-quality school in it, and we'll keep working with the district to get that done. We respectfully request the adoption of Ordinance 202607 and 202608. Happy to answer any questions you all may have, and just would like to reserve some time to answer any questions from the school or the public.

All right. Well, I'll start off. How have the talks been since our last meeting?

We've had two meetings. One was last Thursday. One was this past Monday. We're still working through. We've exchanged some information back and forth, some CAD files to look at some potential solutions. We do have an additional meeting scheduled next Tuesday. We do need to get with your staff to talk about some of the potential changes. If we do go down that road, but we're still working through it and do have another meeting scheduled for Tuesday.

Okay. I mean, can you share any of the, where it's at, the negotiations? Like is everything, everybody still have the same opinion or are we getting any closer?

Currently, yes. We have an approved charter school site that's been approved for three plus years now. The charter school is approved between the charter and The school district, it's been an eight and a half acre site since 2001, was approved on three different applications.

What about since the last meeting? Anything changed?

We've sent over some CAD files for them to take a look at potentially fitting their prototype in some parcels that would include the community center to the north.

So that is available to sell to them?

I guess anything's available, but that's something that still needs to be determined.

Okay. All right. I guess we'll go ahead and ask the school district if they'd like to come up and speak as well. All right. Is, uh, Sarah.

Yes. Hi.

Uh, name and address for the record. You pull the mic down if you'd like. John's tall.

Good evening, Sarah Corrin. I'm the general counsel for the school district of Osceola county, eight one seven bill back Boulevard. I would first like to direct your attention to the St. Cloud Comprehensive Plan Future Land Development Element Policy 3.3.1, which requires the size of a new public school facility and the land area devoted to that facility to satisfy the minimum design standards established by the Osceola County School District whenever possible, unless an innovative design is proposed and accepted by the district. As discussed at the last meeting, the district typically constructs K-8 schools on approximately 20 acres. The standard allows the district to provide students throughout Osceola County with substantially similar educational opportunities, including adequate instructional space, athletic and recreational facilities, safe circulation patterns, and supporting infrastructure. Absent substantially similar high quality facilities, the district cannot, as our mission states, inspire all learners to reach their highest potential as responsible, productive citizens. While the developer has stated that it can construct a facility that meets SREF requirements, which is the state requirements for educational facilities requirements, it proposes to do so on substantially smaller site than the district's minimum standards require. Specifically, the proposal contemplates an approximately eight acre school site. To date, the developer has not provided the district with a plan demonstrating an innovative design, nor has the district accepted any such design as required by your policy 3.3.1. Further, the developer has not confirmed if the proposed eight-acre charter school is intended for mitigation. The charter school was approved, but as stated at the last meeting, the approval of the charter school was not for mitigation. To the extent the school is intended to serve as mitigation, As a mitigation function for development, additional legal and operational considerations may arise, including obligations related to substantially comparable educational opportunities and facilities. Such obligations may imply federal requirements, including Title IX considerations relating to equitable access for educational and athletic opportunities. An approximately eight-acre site would substantially limit the ability to provide the same range of facilities, services, amenities, and athletic opportunities typically available at District K-8 schools to the students in Willey-Platt. Based upon the information currently available, it's difficult to determine how those policy objectives would be achieved. I would also direct your attention to your policy 3.3.4, which requires that new school sites have frontage on or direct access to a collector or arterial roadway and provide suitable ingress and egress for pedestrians, bicycles, automobiles, buses, et cetera. This policy contemplates coordination between the city and county to minimize transportation impacts. The proposed site does not appear capable of accommodating pedestrian, bicycle, vehicular, bus, service, or emergency access necessary to operate a school on this scale as contemplated in your policy 3.3.4. The resulting traffic impacts may create congestion within the community and along the surrounding areas. Additionally, if the facility ultimately operates as a charter school as proposed, the district may not have the same ability to cooperatively coordinate the transportation planning and mitigation measures as it does with traditional public schools, potentially resulting in additional public expense and operational challenges. Moreover, if the proposed school is unable to offer substantially similar programming and opportunities, families may elect to enroll students at other district schools better equipped to meet those needs. This will create additional transportation demands, increase traffic impacts beyond those currently contemplated, and potentially result in additional costs to taxpayers associated with student transportation and infrastructure developments. Of importance, the district entered all of these comments into the community record during the approval process, expressing concerns regarding the issue and stating that the suitable site was needed for mitigation, a suitable site of 20 acres. At the time of the county review, the district was not afforded the opportunity to approve, deny, or conditionally approve the proposal. Rather, the district's participation was limited to providing comments. The district believes this procedural issue warrants further examination and reconsideration with the county, particularly in light of the subsequent revelation that a formal approval or denial mechanism was not available to the district at the time of the review. Accordingly, the district is respectfully requesting a continuance of this matter. A continuance would allow the district to obtain clarification from Osceola County regarding unresolved questions regarding the scope and effect of the county's prior approvals and the review process associated thereof. But most importantly, It would allow the district to continue working cooperatively with the developer at a scheduled meeting on Tuesday to identify a school site that complies with the city's adopted comprehensive policies and appropriately serve the long-term needs of our community, specifically our students and our children. Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you, Sarah.

Let me ask you, if you can stay for one second. So you've had meetings with the applicant? Yes. Since our last council meeting. How do you feel those are going?

We are working towards a solution. However, at this time, the developer has not told us, as I stated, if the charter school is intended for mitigation or not. We do not know if there will be land to buy or not, and that is something that we have offered to purchase at fair market value. So we really do feel that we need to have a continuance so that we can make sure in accordance with your policies there is an appropriate school site designated. Additionally, although CAD drawings have been exchanged, a CAD drawing that meets the requirements of the school district in accordance with your policy has not been provided. And an alternative innovative design that we believe is substantially similar and meets our requirements and yours has not been provided. That is why we are asking for the continuance.

Okay.

You mentioned about the school site needs to be on a major road. What is it? Can you bring that up again?

Sure. It is, um, it is your comprehensive plan for future land use element policy, and it is policy 3.3.4. and it specifically states that new school sites have frontage on or direct access to a collector or arterial roadway and provide suitable ingress and egress for pedestrians, bicycles, automobiles, buses, service vehicles, and emergency vehicles. We do not believe an eight acre site can possibly deliver a school site that also meets all of those requirements. And if, again, the developer states that they can provide, that they have not given it to us yet, they have not shown us how they would do that yet, which is also, again, required under your policy 3.3.1, which states that a public school facility in the land area that is devoted must either meet our minimum standards within the school district, or it must provide an innovative design that is proposed and accepted by the school district. Of importance, your own policy states that their innovative design must be accepted by the school district. And at this time, there has been no innovative design provided that has been accepted.

Okay. I'd like to go ahead and put on the record I've met with both the applicant and the school district prior to this meeting.

Council Member Urban. I would also like to put on the record that I met with the applicant and the school district on this, but I have a question for our city attorney. How does our comp plan code that was referenced apply to this item that's before us?

I can let the planning staff talk technically about the technical issues associated with it. As we said earlier, the issue we have here is there is an annexation agreement that was put in place that the city agreed not to divest this particular developer of the entitlements they had in the county. And that's what you're moving forward with now. You heard the presentation from Mr. Ball. What you're being asked to do, which is to approve the land use, improve the zoning on it consistent with that annexation agreement as was approved in the county. So a lot of the issues that we're talking about, I'm not going to say they're not issues that have to be resolved and worked out at some point in the future, but what's before you tonight is the land use and the zoning. A bunch of the discussion about the design and all that, that wasn't part of the annexation agreement, and that may have to be worked out in the future. But your hands are a little bit tied based on the agreement that was entered into with the developer. related to the annexation and their existing entitlements. And again, as I'll tell you, although there's, and there was a point made about it, the approval from the county from 2022 that gave them the entitlements does not require a 20 acre school site. And so when we brought, when the city council agreed to take that annexation, through the annexation agreement, We were working off of the entitlements that were approved in the county at the time, and that 20-acre site wasn't included on there.

Thank you. Council Member Paul.

I'd also like to put on the record I met with both parties. I do have one question. What is the capacity for this school?

Based on the development, the large-scale development, not just considering Whaley-Platt, but the entire original development, it was predicted that this school would serve 1,150 students every year.

Mrs. Blake, would you like to come up?

I believe that their development would generate 1,156 students. But the school will hold 1,272. Okay.

Are there other schools in the area, charter schools, and what are the acreage for those schools?

That I cannot speak to. Charter schools do not build to the same standards as the school district does.

Rhonda, can we go get your name and address for the record?

Rhonda Blake, Director of Planning Services. There are other charter schools in the area. In specific, I know that Bridge Prep is along Canoe Creek Road. But as Sarah's stating, if they're choice charters, they don't have the same requirements as us. So we would not have that information readily available. It would be at the office. But again, depending on their sizes, like the Mater on Nora Tyson would be larger than a smaller school, and then the Bridge Prep is a pretty good size two-story as well. So again, based on square footage and based on the number of students you're serving will drive the acreage of the property.

All right. Deputy Mayor.

I don't want to ask any of the applicant or the school board any questions. I just want to get legal on this. I just really want to talk about what is legal. And in 2022, what's a quasi... When we get something from the county, what's it called, quasi-judicial?

Well, the Board of County Commissioners approved entitlements for the property through a quasi-judicial.

And when we adopt a quasi-judicial, we adopt those rules and regulations when we annex into a city. Is that not correct?

In this particular case, we entered into an annexation agreement.

Okay, so we enter in annexation through this. I'm talking legally right now through the county that we've taken. The county approved this. Okay. Okay, and again, I didn't approve annexing Whaley's Plant, but we all voted on it, and I'm part of this team, and we got this annexation, so we have to look at legally what is available to us. They had conditions on this acceptance, and they had suggestions or advisory. All conditions were met by the developers. The suggestions are just that. They're advisory suggestions. They do not have to be met. Every suggestion was met by the developer. Again, I want to take the heartfelt stuff out of it. I want to take this. I don't want to get the city in the litigation of developer and also county and the city of what was agreed. It was agreed by the county in 2022. The applicant's been there since 2015. It's quasi-judicial, so when we annex in, we have to take what the county has approved, and the county did approve it, period. Legally, we don't have a leg to stand on. We can get involved with this, but we're not the mediators, and the only thing it's gonna do is cost the city money. If we disapprove this or this, whatever litigation, now we're the third party involved. I do not believe we should be involved. I believe the process was done. Here's the information I get from the developers. And I met with the school board, and they gave me this, and they said, we'll send you all this information. Well, we agreed. I have nothing in writing. I have zero in writing. I have this from the developer and this from the county. And I asked for emails from the county how this was agreed upon by the developer. I still haven't got it. Our last meeting, we got a piece of paper at 3 o'clock, and our council meeting was at 6. I didn't have the opportunity to investigate or delineate on that. But it did happen. 2022, this has been since 2015. I don't want to get my emotions involved with this, but legally as a person, the county approved it. We annexed. Quasi-judicial says we have to accept what the county annexed. I don't believe the developer did anything out of line to get this annexed. And there's still a process they can work on. But we're in the process. We have to approve this. I do not want to push this. I ask for the pleasure of the council. We can be the mediators. I don't think we need to be. I think we need to take what the county, as we annex every other place, we take what the county approves, and we agree upon it through our annexation. This is litigation. This is legal. We should not be involved in this. We should not be the mediator. The county approved it. It's set forth. The first time I heard from the school board was Thursday. I didn't hear from the first reading. I didn't hear from any reading. I got a call on Sunday night, and a county board member says, how are you doing? I said, good, how are you doing? What do you need? They didn't ask me how I was doing. They were trying to fight for this. But I've read through everything, council, at the pleasure of council. I'm going to tell you, if we push this and push it back, we do whatever we want, then we become a part of the litigation. I do not want the city to... spent any money on this litigation through quasi-agreements. We said if we annex anything, we'll agree what the county agreed to, and the county agreed for this to be approved. Now, there's difference between conditions, which the developer meant, and suggestions or advisory, which are not conditions, and that's what their basis on why we should hold this back. Again, I'm not emotional about it. I'm legal about it, and the city of St. Cloud should not get involved with this litigation I think we should approve this. This is the first time I get to talk to you all about it. I think we should approve this as it goes on, and then the litigation and the developer, and we should work on that. But I do not think this should affect the city at all legally. It's written. If you guys read all this stuff, It was agreed upon, and once we quasi-judicial accept it, then we have to accept the terms that the county accepted, and the county did accept this. So I apologize. I'm not a lawyer, but I have to tell you, through all this, I love 20 acres. I love a track. I love a basketball field. But legally, the developer did what they were asked for, and the school board came up on Thursday and said, hey, wait a second, we forgot to talk to you about that. I don't think this is a council, I don't think we need to get involved. But with the pleasure of council, that's my, I've spent over 40 hours looking over this. I've asked for backup, and again, this is what I got from the school board, and this is what I got from the developer. So hearsay is hearsay, but we, Legally, I don't think we should be involved with it. But you guys are more legal experts. I stayed at Holiday Inn, but I'm not a lawyer. So I yield back to you, Mayor, and that's what I've read.

All right. Good? All right. So I don't want to stay in the way of positive negotiations going on. So we shouldn't just move forward and pass something if they're open to negotiating. Both sides are. They said it right there. They're still open to negotiating. So...

I disagree. The developer said they're done.

No, they've got Tuesday. They have a meeting on Tuesday, Deputy Mayor. But I'm going to go ahead and speak here really quick. I believe it's a difference of opinion on what was in the approvals or what was as a condition or what was the other line item. Advisory. Advisory, you're right. I think the school district, from my conversations with the school district, and we're all in independent individual meetings with the school district or with the developer, and this is a tough one because it's... But at the end of the day, this is our children and our community that we need to focus on. Even if a ball gets dropped at the school district level or at the county, if the county doesn't want to give the respect to the school district and if the school district said, hey, we want 20 acres, if you guys are going to put in... Um, I don't know how many homes are in this project. City manager, 800 homes.

Um, there's approximately 2,600, um, residential units along with, uh, ancillary commercial.

Yeah, that's our community. These are our kids in our community. And that is my main focus that even if another entity, a government agency in our community, isn't able to pick up on, you know, say that a ball was dropped and, you know, we all know council changes and staff changes and some future staff or council may believe something was in there as an approval or as a condition and not just a recommendation. I don't think we're far apart on this. I think there's, there's a, there is a site where, um, the applicant just said they were open to selling some of that to the school district. Um, that's community center. And, and I just, I would like to just give more breathing room. I'm not, you know, we're not denying them, but. I also believe these are our children and our community. We need to also keep that in mind that if our school district believes that they need the seats in that area, and we all know that Kissimmee Park area is exploding in growth. That's no secret to any of us, but I think we need to ensure that they're taken into consideration as well. John, did you want to say something?

Yeah, I just want to clarify a couple of things. Well, I did say, I guess you're interpreting it as opening. I have no authority to make that call. I said discussions have been had previously about the community center. And there's a couple of clarifications I want to make too, regarding some of your comp plan policies that this is in your conceptual master plan. That's governed by a different section of comp plan policies and the mixed use district specifically has. a comprehensive plan policy that locates schools. And when that was written, these schools were located as elementary schools next to neighborhood centers, middle schools next to community centers, high schools next to urban centers. K-8s weren't even around at the time these policies were adopted. Those other chapters are outside of the mixed-use district. It's mentioned, actually, that these are not on a framework road, where a comp plan policy for the mixed-use district actually doesn't locate schools on a framework road, but this actually is on a framework road within the mixed-use district. So it doesn't meet one policy, but it's where the school board wants it, and that was a part of the planning that we did early on five years ago when we did have meetings and shared CAD files four and five years ago. So these negotiations will continue. They have to continue, but taking a continuance tonight when it has nothing to do with a comp plan and zoning is not what we want. We do want to move forward tonight. with these approvals, and we absolutely still have to and will work with the school board to come up with a solution.

All right, Councilmember Fletcher. Motion to approve. All right. And we have a motion on the table from Councilmember Fletcher. Second. And we have a second from Deputy Mayor Gilbert.

Yes.

Yes, public comment. Oh, yeah, there's still going to be comments.

To clarify, this is on Ordinance 2607. Absolutely. Thank you. Yep.

Yes, sir. Name and address for the record, please.

Alex, 2517 Bulrush Drive. So I just wanted to bring to your guys' awareness, you are right, Ken. We aren't litigators between the school board and the developers, and you are completely right. We don't want to sit here tomorrow and worry about our kids and our schools. I've gone to the high school yesterday, to the middle school today. Every year I fight for bus transportation, every year. There's no sidewalks, there's no way to get there. If we continue and we develop that, that school closes. Anything may happen, right? Tomorrow, it may not affect us within the next five years, but the next 20 years as those communities back there keep developing, if something happens to that school, public schools can't take over. School choice is great, but we need to do what's right today because it may affect us tomorrow. That's all I have to say. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Council Member Urban.

City attorney, is it or is it not true if the city does not approve the future land use and zoning or continues to delay it that this developer can continue to develop under what has already been approved under the county standards?

The current state of law with regard to an annexation in this instance is that the existing land use, existing zoning stay with the property until it is changed by the jurisdiction in which the property was annexed. So in reality, the existing land use and zoning in the county would stay exactly the same as it is if the council were to take no action. Thank you.

Anyone else in the audience like to speak on this item?

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. My name is Joseph Kovach. I'm an attorney with the Lowndes law firm in Orlando, two and five North Yola drive. Uh, I'm here on behalf of the applicant. I just want to address some of the, uh, statements made by the school district. And, you know, I'll say that as John said, we do disagree with the comp plan policies relied on by the school district. This is part of a conceptual master plan. Different policies apply. Um, You know, the applicant opposes a continuance. We're in favor of approval tonight, obviously. But I want to highlight that, you know, the school board or the school district is asking for a substantial amount of property from a private party that is already paying about $30 million in school impact fees. So it is not the case that we're developing without paying a fair share For school capacity for these students there will be a substantial payment when this property is actually developed Our position is under there is no Obligation to to set aside that that amount of acreage for a school We have somebody here with us tonight who can answer more questions or talk specifically about statutory obligations as far as school goes and what is required under the law for schools, but we are clearly meeting those requirements with the current application. We already have an approved concept plan. We already have an approved subdivision plan. The time for these arguments really has passed. We're here for a future land use map amendment or to get a future land use designation. We're here for a zoning map amendment to get a zoning designation put on the property. And as the city attorney indicated, there's an annexation agreement that says, whereas the city and owner agreed that the property shall have a city future land use classification of mixed use district and a city zoning classification of mixed use district. And that the comprehensive plan amendment and rezoning actions to enact these classifications shall be adopted simultaneously with the annexation of the property. The recitals are incorporated in the agreement. The agreement was approved. The agreement is in place. Our position is at this point, we have a right to have these designations applied. We have a right to get our future land use, a right to get our zoning designation put on the property. At this point, it's becoming a due process violation. We were continued once already. We met with the school board. The school board is here again asking for another continuance where we have an agreement what designations should be put in place that from our position isn't being Followed now we want to work with the city. We want to work with the school board Obviously, but we also want this agreement honored. We want these designations put in place and As was just indicated You know kind of steal some of my thunder but Under the statute, if the city doesn't apply a city zoning district, a city future land use district, we just operate under what Osceola County has. And it, I think, puts the city in a position to have city staff trying to apply county zoning and future land use for development in the city, which is an absurd result when we have an annexation agreement that tells us all what's supposed to happen. I am available to answer questions, but I appreciate your time.

Yeah, I got a question for you. I mean, I heard all the legal stuff, but were you in the meetings, the negotiations between the two, the last two meetings? I was not, no. Okay, right. And I don't think anybody has said we're not going to approve this. I think it was my idea to give them three weeks of breathing room. I think both sides are saying these have been productive meetings, but you haven't been in those, so I'm not sure how they're reporting back to you. But they seem like they're productive meetings. They said there's a follow-up meeting on Tuesday, which sounds like things are going good. And that's why by stopping it short, I don't know if anybody saw the news, but our – Not saying that this charter school is going to be detrimental to our schools, but if you've seen what happened with the gradings of our schools, the charter schools brought down our gradings. We would have had A-rated schools in our entire district. We would have had an A grade. The Cs, the Ds, the Fs, they were the charter schools. They brought down our grade to a B. And I'm not saying that this is. I'm not saying that. But we do have a, I trust our superintendent. I know he wants to not have charter schools in that area. I trust our school board. I've spoken with at least one of them. But I just wanted to give the breathing room. And what does it hurt having one more meeting? And we've got a council meeting August 20th, which we're already in, what are we, August 5th or 6th? August 5th. Two weeks. That's two more weeks. And that's it, I'm not saying let's deny it. So to say that we're trying to deny anything and that we gotta talk about going to the county, those are all fear tactics. You're trying to scare us into, this is about our kids. If we don't focus on having an ample school site for our children now, where's it gonna go? Do you live in St. Cloud?

No, sir.

Okay. All right, that's all the questions I have. Thank you very much. Anyone else in the audience like to speak on this item? Can I ask the school district one more question, please?

Yes, sir. All right.

It's confusing because we're getting information from you guys and also the county and the developer. Three sides. Corey Carpenter from the county. The information I saw said that it was supposed to be a condition, but then Ray Stengel says it's not.

Yes, sir.

You all believed it was a condition. Okay.

So, sir, I will say that first and foremost, there are a lot of things that we believe that we can nitpick tonight and say we agree or we disagree, and that's not something we really want to do here. We would really like to have productive discussions with the developer and move this forward. But the issue that happens is that when Acela was working with the program, at the time, the district could only press buttons that were passed with conditions, pass with comments. The school district itself cannot approve or deny a development. There was no button, for lack of a better word, for us to say pass with conditions. It was just a pass with comments situation. So we would like to go back to the county and also discuss that as well because it was our understanding that if there was a pass with conditions that that was, a pass with comments, that was considered a condition. We had an email that said that it was a condition. Now we're being told that it was not, which is why we're also seeking a continuance because instead of nitpicking those issues with the city of St. Cloud, we would like to go back and present the additional information to the county. Mr. Stengel respectfully has interpreted this information on behalf of the county, but we have not actually heard from the county members. We have heard from one individual making that interpretation. It's possible the county may agree with him or may not. But we would just like to have that additional time in good faith on behalf of our kids to address that issue and to address the development. And again, while we could, I have a list and a litany of issues where I could say he said, she said, or I agree with you or I don't. I don't think that that's relevant here today. And that seems like a waste of your time. And in respect of this tribunal, we would respectfully request a continuance so that we can address the issues with the county. and address the issues with the developer and come back to the city of St. Cloud and hopefully have a resolution.

Okay. And as the Deputy Mayor alluded to, that once we agree to annex it in, of course, there's a step, a process to go down. When we annexed it in, of course, I never knew this issue existed until the afternoon of our last council meeting. But at that time when we annexed in, did you all believe that there was an issue? Did you...

Yes, and I do believe that comments were incorporated at that time.

Ms. Blake, would you like to come to the microphone?

And I apologize, but there are certain things that Ms. Blake is exceptional at her job, and she knows all of the ins and outs more than I do. And I know I need to come to the front.

Yes, ma'am.

Yes.

Rhonda Blake, Director of Planning Services. So at the time of the annexation, we were continuing with our standard comment about we were requesting... the 20 acre net usable with offsite, um, stormwater and infrastructure, and that we were attempting to work with the developer, but it wasn't until the next round when we saw the actual approval letters where the County had stated, we were an advisory note, not a condition of approval. So we do not see the approval letters that are issued to the developers at the end stage of each approval by the either municipality or the County. So we will also be asking to be included on those mailings in the future so that if something we think is a condition of approval happens to change in a letter, we can address it at a much earlier stage.

So to summarize, at the time we were operating, that it was going to be a condition based upon the correspondence that we had received from the county. At some point that changed and we did not receive those letters to know that it had changed.

So when, when you make that recommendation to the County that you say, listen, we feel that we need 20 acres for a school site. If you're going to put in 2,500 homes, whatever, however many homes we need a school site, this size, they don't take that into consideration.

So they have taken that into consideration in the past as an advisory note, but they have already, they have always told us, as you saw in that correspondence, that they are interpreting that as a condition. We are going to be working with the County moving forward. to have a different button that we could possibly press to make our statements known so that in the future we can say we want this as a condition.

Okay. And that wasn't allowed prior?

That was not allowed prior, and that is not something that was addressed, which is why we want to go back to the county address.

What year was this approved? John, you would know that probably more. From the county?

It was 2021. First at PS was 2022, second at PS.

Okay, thank you. Was Mr. Stangle in that position that he's in now, given his opinion on this? Was he in that position during that time of approval?

I'm going to ask Ms. Blake again for all of you. I have been in my position for two years, so I am still learning all of the ins and outs institutionally, so I would like Ms. Blake to answer that.

I can state that the letter that references the condition of approval was written by Ms. Corey Carpenter. I believe her title was Director of Design and Planning. I'm not sure of Mr. Stengel's title at that time, but he was one level above Ms. Carpenter. He is copied on the email.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, Council Member Paul.

And, um, for the record, I just want that all three entities are using, um, different systems, correct?

Yes, ma'am. So we have to learn each platform that each of you use a different platform. Yes. But we have to, so for instance, um, the county uses a seller and you use project docs and the city of Kissimmee uses Energo. So we, as a school district have to have training on all three platforms and they all operate differently. Our options inside are differently. So we're currently talking about Acela, which is the platform for Osceola County.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

Thank you. Yeah. John, did you have a few more comments?

Yes, I do. Again, I don't want to go back and forth on this. The email from Corey Carpenter was in reference to the concept plan. That was five weeks before PS. The first PS was adopted five weeks before it, and then it still showed up as an advisory note. Then a year later, it showed up an advisory note. Again, the school board sits on DRC and the planning commission as a non-voting member. They absolutely get staff reports that essentially are copy and paste because all those special condition advisory notes are in a staff report as well. And back to, you know, a timely manner is that this property is within your JPA. And per your JPA that was adopted, you know, 12 years ago now, it's 90 days to process an application. This had to go through the state. It did take longer due to our negotiations with staff and some of the discrepancies between the mixed-use district codes. And then because it's over 50 acres, it did go to the state. But this has been a timely manner. This has been approved as a PS for three years now where it's gone through two separate, three application reviews in the county with seven public hearings and no opposition at a public hearing. It came to three public hearings here at a Planning Commission unanimous approval, a first reading, a second reading with an annexation that was approved, an approved comp plan to go to the state with no opposition. It wasn't until after that, the first opposition, that caught us off guard, quite frankly, because we thought we had this approval in place. Every single school out here, the school in Kindred, there's two schools, the K-8 in Tahoequa, the high school in Tahoequa, the high school in Edgewater East, or the K-8 in Edgewater West, the elementary school and high school in... Fontana, excuse me, changed its name sometimes, and the Bellaterra, K-8, all had land use and zoning in place, and those were all identified either at a concept plan, PS, or SDP level. There's still an opportunity to get this school site worked out if it continues at its charter school site as approved. The charter school has until 2031 to be built per their agreement. That's not an agreement between the developer and charter school, That's between charter school and the school board that that agreement's done. There's one K-8 in the five-year capital improvement project for the entire county. There's three vacant K-8 sites currently. There's the Bella Terra K-8 that's vacant. There's a Tohoku K-8 that's vacant. There's an Edgewater West K-8, and I won't mention Fontana because there's no way to get down there right now. The charter school would likely be built before a K-8 would ever be built at this area. Now, it's all run on numbers. I don't know those numbers, but that contract is already in place and already been agreed to by the school board and extended by the school board again after this site was identified as a charter school site in October of 23, continued to 2031 in December of 23. So all those conversations continue to happen just as they did for every other developer in the East Lake Toho, that it can be identified at a concept plan PS or an SDP level. And we've have an approved concept plan and approved PS one approved SDP. And we're still working on additional SDPs now. And there's, we can still continue the conversations with the school board, but we would like our land use and zoning in place.

Okay. And you're not willing to give two more weeks to negotiate and have this meeting on Tuesday.

Again, we've submitted this application.

I'm just asking yes or no, John. Okay, you don't want to have a meeting.

No, we would like to continue just as every other developer did and negotiate with our land use and zoning in place.

Thank you. Yeah, and my hopes were that as a community, people can come together. And I understand developers spend money, but I mean, we're four years into this, right? And I understand that. And that's why, you know, sometimes people need more breathing room to work out details for the sake of the kids in our community. That's our future. That area is growing so fast, so big, too big, too fast, most would say in our community. Most in that area don't want that kind of growth in our community, and I totally understand that. When the people that give the approvals, obviously it wasn't anybody in this government entity at Osceola County. Just because they approve something that isn't to the benefit of our community doesn't mean we have to sit there and eat it and swallow it. I'm going to stick up for the citizens in our community and our children in our community. And that's where I listen to both sides. You know, the school district, I honestly believe the school district thought that the county and the developers were going to take their, their, their recommendations to heart. And take care of the kids. I mean, obviously, that's what it's for, right? The school board, they've got their functions, right? Education and the children, you know, the curriculum. And they build their own buildings. They get their own tax dollars to do what they do. But those are still the children in our community in the city of St. Cloud. And that's why I'm really going back and forth on this because I really want you all to come together and you all find the solution. I don't believe we should be doing it, but I really wanted to give you the time, and I'm glad you all had the few meetings. I just don't want to cut those negotiations short to the benefit of one side or the other, right?

Well, the difference is it allows us to move forward under your land use and your zoning with the STPs that are currently in review. We've submitted this application in September of last year, 90 days per the JPA. We're 10 months in. Now, part of that is negotiations on our side. But, again, we've been to seven public hearings with no opposition from the school board other than whether or not it's an advisory note or a special condition, it says right in the first line, requesting.

And I think we addressed that, I believe, because I think in our last meeting, Dan, we received that letter from the school board's attorney, Tom Callen, I believe. Yes, Tom was here, yeah. but that's because you made a comment to somebody, right? Was that how that worked or would they believe that they had the 20 acres that was going to be reserved for them?

I mean, in terms of the advisory versus the versus the condition is correct. I hadn't made that. So then I only made that comment to the school districts attorneys recently that it on our, from our reading, it was shown as an advisory note on the county's approval and not as a condition.

And you made that prior to the Tom Cowell?

No, I just recently, I made that after the last meeting and before tonight.

Okay.

Yeah.

And, and school board, can I ask the school board attorney one more thing? And I think we talked about it last meeting, but. When Mr. Callan sent that letter, is that when y'all, your, your entity realized that it's just a recommendation or a, um, not a condition.

Yes, sir.

That's when you first noticed.

I believe that that is when we first noticed. I am not 100% sure because Mr. Callan went through all of the paperwork before I did.

Okay. And I believe that's, and John, I respect what you're saying where they, we said, look, there's been numerous meetings, but there's no been opposition.

I think this is when they first noticed at the, you know, just prior to the last meeting, we realized that the eight acre site for a charter school, again, the school district approved a charter school on that eight acre site. We did not approve a charter school for mitigation purposes. And I think that's what I had stressed at the last meeting. We are happy to have a charter school in that community. We are happy to approve a charter school on that eight acre site. However, we do not believe that that charter school is sufficient for mitigation purposes. And the school district did not approve the charter school for mitigation purposes.

So what we're looking for is take that out where it can't be for mitigation purposes.

And if that would be the case, then we would still need a school site for mitigation purposes from that development. That's correct.

I mean, all of this is outside our council's wheelhouse other than our focus is to look after every citizen in our community, no matter what's affected. Last night I got a phone call from the fire chief about a power line on a mobile home. I don't work for the power company, and it was just something that, you know, because I had gone out there last month and assisted with something. I had information with the property manager. So sometimes we get caught up into something, but we're there to help no matter what the situation is.

And our goal truly is to, with a meeting on Tuesday, hopefully come to a place where we can either have an innovative design from the developer where a school can be on that property or to have 20 acres plus or minus with stormwater so that we can build the appropriate school to mitigate the, I believe they just said 2,800 homes in that neighborhood. So it's a lot of students and if we do not have proper mitigation, we are going to have to bus these students to other places. And that is not something that's going to be, it's going to be a burden to taxpayers. It's going to be a burden to the community. It's going to be a burden to traffic. It's going to be a burden to our students because as you're aware, there isn't a lot of land around that area to just purchase 20 acres. So we're going to have to move these kids to another area to go to school. And that's, That's not what the goal is. The goal is to have students go to school in their community and become lifelong learners and to be productive members of our community.

Yeah. Yeah. And unfortunately the school district, they're unable to be the loudest voice because our cities and our counties are the ones that approve these large developments and If it's just a recommendation that, you know, y'all are left kind of hoping that we do the right thing. Listen, I'm it's not that I'm in favor of 2,500 homes over there. Um, and I agree. We, the, the, the code here says we annex it in, we adopt it. So I wholeheartedly intended on and intend on approving the adoption of this. but I want to give a couple more weeks. I mean, that's it. What's two weeks to help you guys? And after two weeks, you say, look, this isn't working. Well, then that's kind of where it goes. And I've seen where we've had this, we're in a position right now kind of like our special magistrate's been in, right? Where he's got to sit there and sort out both sides where he said, okay, we'll give a little bit of time. And at the end of the day, if you guys can't work this out in the next month or so, then it's going to come back and then they're going to make the decision, right? The only decision we can make is to approve this, right? I would just like to give you a little breathing room for the sake of our kids. And that's it. Um, council member urban.

Um, I just, first I want to say, uh, I have nothing but the utmost respect for the school district. I'm a product of the Osceola County school district. I have a daughter starting kindergarten on Monday in the Osceola County school district. I want. our schools in the city of St. Cloud and all throughout Osceola County to be thriving and successful. But I resent the fact that we are being put in the position to be for or against schools or for or against kids. That is not our job up here as city council members of the city of St. Cloud. Our job is to approve a future land use and a zoning amendment. And after all of my discussions with Our legal team, our city staff, I don't see any other way, I think, just echoing what the deputy mayor said. I understand both sides, but I resent the fact that we're being put in a position where we have to choose on something that's really not in our purview here. So I know it's a tough position. And I trust that the developer will continue to work with the school district on getting the acreage they need. But I just, I'm kind of at a loss here as a city councilman at the city of St. Cloud. We're not really in a, we're not in this position to handle, I mean, the school question is not in our purview.

Yeah, Council Member Urban, I think we discovered a glitch and the approval over at the County and how it translates over here, because they can, uh, they can approve stuff that's not in the benefit of our city. And then we just have to swallow it up. Even if it's not in the benefit of our, of our residents. And if that's what our code says that yes, we do that. I'm not opposed to that, but we give everybody and their brother breathing room and say let's push it out to the next meeting, right? I'm the one who said let's give them three weeks because I was citing more with the developer on that and I still am. I'm not saying they don't have the legal rights to all of this. But we've done this time and time again. We've given the breathing room so that cooler heads can prevail and the two sides can come together. We've done it with, I don't know how many times they've done it with developments along Narcoossee Road. We did it with the, right there at the Nolte Road Turnpike Interchange with those, because it had the R4 zoning, right? They had the zoning and we pushed it out, I believe, two months ago. so that the residents and the developer could come together and figure another path. Just because they have the zoning, just because they have the legal right to do it, doesn't mean it's 100% right for the community and that both sides shouldn't come together and just give a little breathing room. I just think it's, there was so much at play here and You know, this has been going on for four years. What's two more weeks, but Hey, that's, that's just my opinion. I'm one of five votes council member Paul.

Um, and this upcoming meeting, will the County be also in this meeting as well?

No, ma'am. The meeting on Tuesday is between us, between the school district and the developer to try to come to a solution independently. We will also be reaching out to the County separately to address the other issue, but we're hoping. that on Tuesday we can come to a resolution with the developer and we don't even need to worry about what has happened with the county. We're going to work both sides of that because it's important that we address both issues. But on behalf of the school district, we're hopeful that we can get to a place where we can have a school site and we can build a quality school for our students.

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm Melissa Gross Arnold. I'm with the Arnold Law Firm, 3840 Crown Point Road. I'm, along with Sarah, an expert in education law, certified by the Florida Bar. So the two of us come at this from the education side. I am here on behalf of Hawk Platt, and I want you all to know they want a public school in this community, and there's one planned for this community. Right now, it's planned to be a charter school. That is a public school, and it doesn't have to have 20 acres. It's a more efficient use of land, some would say, but it doesn't have to be. So the negotiation that is scheduled for Tuesday, it will continue. Your vote this evening doesn't keep that from happening. This developer only has to pay...

Your client said you didn't want to meet with him on Tuesday.

Oh, no, no, sir. We don't want... I mean, I did ask you, John.

No, I said I didn't want to continue.

No, no, I asked you if you wanted to meet on Tuesday, and you said you don't want the meeting.

No.

Okay, thank you. Okay. That's what I'm confused because you're speaking on behalf of your client.

No, I I'm, I'm sorry if that was the, the impression, the point here is that if the city doesn't move forward with this vote, then they would just move forward with their development using the county standards. They would still be meeting with the school district. That meeting could be just about mitigating or. impact fee credits, but they don't have to put a school district school in this location. They're not required.

And nobody is saying they are. And that's where the attorneys get in the middle of this and where the focus gets taken off the kids and the future of our community where the developer who's putting 2,500 homes in there In the school district who just says, listen, you're going to have all these people live in there. They're going to have kids. Their focus is on our children and the children are focused as well. Those are our citizens as well. All right. We we have a duty to look after them as well. The attorneys get in the middle. They make all their money and they muddy the waters. They say it's all you can't deny them. Nobody's denying them. but you guys get in the way and you're telling them to stop acting like humans and, and good partners in the community. I'm trying to get them to say, Hey, let's come together and let's work this out where the attorneys is trying to split them apart. And that's where I take offense that do you live in our community, ma'am?

No, sir. I don't. I don't. But Sarah and I are working together and I hope that continues. That's right. Yeah.

But nobody's denying anything. Nobody's denying anything. It's all about breathing room and everybody working together.

Deputy Mayor Gilbert.

I appreciate the Mayor's comments and rebuttals to City Council Member Urban and City Council Member Paul. No, the county's not getting involved. They made the decision, and they're not getting involved. Their decision is there. They're not getting involved, period. They made the decision, and a quasi-agreement through legal matters are there. Do I care about kids? 100%. Do I care about everything? 100%. We're looking at legal statutes, and we're looking at what the process is in breathing room since 2015 is when Whaley Plot came aboard. There's been seven meetings that the school board hasn't showed up to. We're looking at final decisions. We looked at it last Thursday as a rubber stamp. But the school board says, hey, wait a second. And it was an advisory. And it's not my opinion. It's legalese. And legalese says when we adopt something quasi from the county, we take whatever they decided on. And I love children. And if we get personal, we can get personal about everything. But this is a situation that we do not need to get involved with. It's already been agreed upon. And we don't need to be the mediators of this. This is between the school board and the developer. And they'll continue to meet. There's a lot of more meetings they're going to have as this develops. They may grant this. They may work together. But we're working on a situation through a quasi-agreement that we annexed. And I'll go to say, I didn't agree with the annexation. But then when the council did, I'm a part of that council. And then when this came up... I have to look at it legally. I own businesses. We are not the referees. We are not the person that says, hey, wait a couple minutes, renegotiate, do it again. They've done it. They've been there for seven or eight years. And I get a letter on a Thursday before a Thursday meeting. And I love the kids. It has nothing to do with that. We are here legally to enforce what we are quasi-legally judicial accepting of what the county says when we annex stuff in. I didn't want to annex it, but the four of you agreed, and now I'm part of that team, so I'm part of the team that we annexed in, and now there's an agreement that the county made with this developer, so I have to honor it. That's all I have to do. Again, I love kids. You guys know that. But this is a legal opportunity that we have to abide by unless you guys want to get in litigation, unless you want to get into the school board and the developer and be that. And the developer, believe it or not, can come to us and say, hey, we're suing you because it agreed upon. You have a quasi-judicial agreement with the county, and now you're not allowing us to do this. And who gets paid? As the mayor said, the lawyers. Right now, this is an obligation that we committed to when we signed that annexation. And although as opposed to annexation, when we agreed to it as a council, we agreed to everything that the county agreed to. And Councilman Paul, the county is not going to come to the table. I promise you, they're done. They made their decision. Advisory, suggestion, kids or whatever, they will not be a part of this interpretation because they gave it to us. And Dan, forgive me if I'm wrong, Now we're responsible for it. And they ask us to say, our agreement is, if we gave it to you, you've got to agree to what we've presided. And emotionally, again, I would love to be a part of it. But legally, when we sign an agreement to annex something, we are agreeing to what the county has agreed to. And the county agreed to it. I've read this stuff. I've spent 40 hours on this stuff. Suggesting an advisory is not a condition. These folks met every condition. There's 20 conditions. They met it. There's advisory things. You know, hey, you need to have purple lights on every lamppost. That's an advisory. That's a suggestion. And I don't want to take the personal thing out of it, but as a council member, we are not playing verbal volleyball. We are not lawyers by any extent, although I have some on staff. We have to look at what is best for the city. And what's best for the city is agree upon the agreement we made with the county to not be involved with the litigation if it happens. And if I was a developer, I'm not gonna advise them, but they've done everything right. There'll be more meetings. They may agree to this 20 acres. They may agree to all that stuff. All we're looking at is one thing today. It's land use that we agreed to our quasi-development. And if it came to emotions, I agree with you. If it came to legal, I think we have to do what is legally right. And I yield back to you, Mayor and Council, but think about that. We're not those folks. We have to look at the law and say what the law says. And the law says if we agree to annexation through quasi-development, then we have to agree to it. We can't say with the stipulations or the advisory or the suggestions, county agreed to it, seven meetings later, One piece of paper from the school board, and I love the school board. But it is what it is. I yield back to you. I wish I could say, we are the world, we are the children. I love that. But this is a legal issue, and I don't think our council should be involved with it. If we agree with every annexation, we have to agree with whatever the county did when we annex it. And the county agreed to this, and I don't know what else to say. But I yield back to you, and I love the conversation, and we can debate and we can answer questions between council, but black and white is that we have to accept everything the county accepts when we agree to annexation. I yield back to you, Mayor, and I agree about the kids, and I don't want to get personal about it, but this is a legal opportunity that we have to. If we want to get into it, let's hire lawyers.

Yeah. Council Member Paul.

And I don't disagree with anything, but we literally got an envelope on July 16th before the meeting. And here we are. I had a meeting yesterday and today. And if I'm going to make a decision, I want to look at it at the full picture. So I just, you know, for me, I just feel like the timing matters. to make a decision on something, I would like more time as well, because I just don't want to just be rushed into making a decision on hopefully that they can come to an agreement on Tuesday or something and not come back here going back and forth like we were on the 16th, so.

Yeah, I would agree. And nothing says we have to vote right now. Two weeks from now, we can vote. And I've already told the developer, I'm not opposed to it. I'm not opposed to approving what they're asking for. I just believe that cooler heads prevail on both sides, and it's like when people are going through a divorce. Get the attorneys out of the room. Let them try and work it out. And that's all. I think that's what the school district is asking for is, and I know we've got attorneys representing them, but let's take out... All of, hey, legal this, legal that. Let's check out and let's implement what's right. And that's where I'm coming from. We all come from different ways. We know everybody up here loves our kids and our community. I know the developer does as well. But I just believe that given breathing room, especially in negotiations when you're actively negotiating, why would we push one side or the other? Let's just give you all the breathing room. Anyone else from the audience like to speak on this item? Yes, ma'am.

Just for quick clarification, I think there's an impression that there were meetings where we had no representation as a school district because I keep hearing the seven meetings, but we have had a comment and a representation at every meeting at every phase. We do not attend Board of County Commissioner meetings unless there's a reason to go up and actually bespeak which has to be prearranged. But the school capacity reports you received today, we submit them at the DRC and that same report will travel to the Planning Commission and it will also travel to the BOCC so we don't have to issue a new report for every meeting. So we have always been consistent with our request and it has been at every meeting on the record.

Thank you. So you've always believed there was going to be 20 acres set aside in this development?

Once we received the letter that said a condition of approval, yes, sir.

Okay.

Or an email. Yes, sir.

All right. Thank you. All right. Anyone else in the audience like to speak? All right. We have a motion on the table for approval from Council Member Fletcher and a second to approve from Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Will the clerk please call the roll?

Council Member Fletcher?

Aye.

Council Member Paul?

Nay.

Council Member Urban? Aye. Deputy Mayor Gilbert? Aye. Mayor Robertson?

Nay.

Motion carries 3-2.

Thank you.

So we need a motion on 2026-08. That is correct.

Will the clerk please call the roll? I'm sorry, can I get a motion for... Sorry, I don't have my eyes on.

2026-08.

Thank you. 2026-08. Motion to approve. Motion approved. Council Member Fletcher? Aye. Second. Second from Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Will the clerk please call the roll?

Council Member Paul? Nay. Council Member Urban?

Aye.

Deputy Mayor Gilbert? Aye. Council Member Fletcher? Aye. Mayor Robertson? Nay. Motion carries 3-2.

All right. Thank you all. Appreciate it. We'll take a few seconds here.

Mayor, I don't believe Krabby Bills is here. Are they supposed to be here?

I mean, this has been advertised, so I think that whether or not they're here or not.

I just wanted to let you know, I texted her while we were here. I got no response. Mr. Walker emailed her yesterday, didn't get a response either.

Did they know they were on the agenda?

His email says it was on the agenda.

Okay. Did they respond and acknowledge it was on the agenda? No. That's important too. Okay. Then we'll, I'll tell you what, I'll go ahead and make a motion to continue that to the next council meeting, August 20th.

I'd like to second that if I may, Matt.

We have a motion to second. I'm sorry. Did the clerk have to read that or no?

Yeah, it's a specially advertised hearing, so, yes, she has to read it.

All right. Will the clerk please read Council Action Resolution Number 2026-104R?

Resolution number 2026-104R, resolution of the City Council of the City of St. Cloud, Florida, approving a new lease agreement with Krabby Bills of St. Cloud LLC from Marina Building Premises at 1104 Lakeshore Boulevard, St. Cloud, Florida, providing for a new lease for an initial term of 10 years for initial rent of $10,000 per month effective September 1st, 2026, authorizing the Mayor and the City Manager to execute the agreement and providing an effective date.

Dan, do we have to take public comment if we're? No, sir. All right. I would like to say I just think it's fair that they acknowledge that they know they're on the agenda. And this is obviously a big topic for conversation. So I'll make a motion to go ahead and move that to the August 20th meeting. If I may second to continue, Mayor. All right. And we have a second from Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Will the clerk please call the roll?

Council Member Urban.

Aye.

Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Aye. Council Member Fletcher. Aye. Council Member Paul. Aye. Mayor Robertson. Aye. Motion carries 5-0.

All right, and we have discussion item.

This agenda is not our normal format. I think that's supposed to be public comment.

It just says discussion item. Yeah, so do you have anything?

That's all right. I'll go ahead and ask.

Does anyone in the public have any comments on anything not on the agenda? All right, with that, thank you, Mary. You're welcome. And so, city manager, did you want to speak about?

I have several things. All right. If you don't mind, thank you. First, Councilman Paul submitted a city council member request form on behalf of the St. Cloud Chamber. The St. Cloud Chamber has requested to use the first floor of City Hall for their merry mingle in December. and I would like to get council consensus. It's very easy. The only thing the city's going to have to do is assign a staff person to lock the building when they're done. They did do this two years ago. At the time, we had an economic development director, so she sponsored it, and she stayed to do it. So I don't have an economic development director, so I would have to assign a staff person now, but I'm looking for direction on that.

How long is the event for? Just curious. Do I get an invite? I think we went to that a couple years ago.

They asked if you would dress like Santa.

Me? Somebody has a comfortable dress like Santa.

She looked your way, but I wasn't sure if she was talking to you or Mr. Gilbert.

See how I get treated, Henrietta? Welcome to the fun, right? I get abused up here.

I'm opening the attachment. It was in my weekly update to the City Council on Monday. It's just taking a minute to open. It's for December 8th from 5 to 7. Last year it was at the apartments, the Marlow Apartments, Alpha Nova and 192.

But I think the year before it was here, wasn't it? Yes. Because I remember we were down there.

Right, and that was when I had a staff person who was able to lock the building because she was sponsoring it. So that's the only difference this year.

Yes, I'm good. You just need to...

I just need direction. So yes, thank you, direction. We will waive the fees. Well, there is no set fee. We'll let them in the building. Yeah, we'll let them do that. Another item I have for discussion, you have in front of you multiple options for painting the bandshell. We discussed at the workshop on Thursday that the council would like to discuss and choose a different paint color. There was conversation about red, white, and blue, so the use of AI was magnificent, and you have multiple options in front of you, so we're just looking for direction.

I think if we're gonna do white, I'd like to do the bright white. I think that stands out, right? Instead of a pale white.

Councilmember Urban? What really stood out for me was either American Eagle or Patriot Shield. I love having the ceiling painted as well, and I think it looks really patriotic and good, but it's up to you guys.

Council Member Fletcher.

I would favor Patriot Shield as well. I think, I'm not sure, the American Eagle one would be, it might be tough. That's a big, yeah. That's a big lift.

What about somewhere on there, you see there's the banding, so number three is what we're looking at when you say Patriot Shield? Yes. They've got that title as number three. Underneath where it's got the five stars, what about to the left of the middle of the band shell in the banding area, maybe have Soldier City? Do we want to put that on there?

I think having that slogan would be nice. Yeah.

We still don't have it back here, but...

But you have it downstairs when you walk into City Hall as of today, yes.

Oh, is it? Okay. Because it's just the two words, Soldier City, so... How does the, I guess no matter what you paint, there's going to be lights in there, right?

We're also working on the lights.

It's supposed to have upgraded lighting.

Can you give a rundown, I guess, of everything that, so everybody in the public knows what we're talking about.

My understanding is we're doing upgraded lighting, we're replacing the doors, we're painting, and off the top of my head, Mr. Felblinger, do you?

You're talking about the doors with the padlocks, the gate, those, or the doors for the bathroom?

Good evening. Good evening. Kevin Feldman here, public works director. Yeah, the two main doors that have kind of been kicked in with the – I think there's more for storage, I believe. There's areas where they've been kicked in. There's like a dungeon on each side. Yeah, we're doing that. And then like I said, there's like areas where there's cracks and that sort of stuff, so we're going to be fixing the area. So like I said, yeah, so that is the intent about fixing all the different penetrations and cracks there. and then being able to, like I said, we're going to be doing an epoxy floor, and be able to do that. So it really is giving a really good facelift. The only thing I do want to talk about when we start talking about specific paints and that sort of stuff, if you look kind of between three and six, what we'd probably do is we'd probably be able to paint like six, and then we'd have to come back and paint in the shield portion of it, just because that's a little bit more detailed than what we currently have in the current contract. So I'm just wanting people to know that We can definitely make it happen. It will start looking sort of like the white background to start with, and then we'll come back and paint in the shield portion of that. So if you're wanting to have any kind of verbiage or anything like that, that would just be part of that. When they come back, we could very easily add in the Soldier City into that band.

Yeah, I think it all looks great. And you all like what's on the sides as well? Because there's different variations. Are those...

You know what I'm referring to, on each end of the band shell.

Because now it has the 250 in that location, right? Hanging as a banner.

Did we have that on that building?

I think so. I think it's hanging on the other side.

And we could always have it set up for banners, and then we could always make adjustments to the banners also. I mean, instead of painting it, we could always have it set up and be able to make adjustments to banners if that's something that would be good.

The one problem, Kevin, sorry, but there's a plaque. that's been covered over. If you look at the first picture, That's the original picture that we did in AI, and there's a plaque on the right side.

Yeah, it says it's, like, dedicated to the band of, like, 1952 or something like that. Well, that's it.

Is that what it says on that?

I believe that the current plaque that is there, I mean, that is not what this says, but I'm assuming that, like, once again, it's an AI rendering, and so I don't think they said, I mean, I would have. Well, that plaque is there.

I mean, I'm out there almost every weekend. You know, the past couple months, only every other weekend, but. That plaque exists and I don't want to paint over the plaque and I don't want to remove a plaque that's existing. If it's dedicated by, um, at any time, you know, in the city's history, I don't want to remove a plaque or cover over the plaque, but I think we just need to look at that. I think at the bottom picture, it, it elongated the plaque. Um, you know, I, I think the original picture, it just has a small, uh, a square. Right. But I think we need to look at that part. Oh yeah.

I think the intent was always to leave the, leave the plaque in place. I don't think we ever intended on. Yeah.

But if you look at any of these words painted on the side, you're, you're painting over the plaque. That's what I'm saying. Let's not paint over the plaque. Let's find a way. I think that can be the add-on, right? That can be in the second round.

Yeah, I think that's the intent because right now what we currently have, if we can get the base with the trim that everybody's happy with, then we can definitely come back in and the Patriot shields there, that's definitely beyond just a normal, you know, somebody putting a, you know, a spray, you know, spraying it in and that sort of stuff. But yes, there will still be the lights up there and the ceilings, like I said, so we're updating those to make sure that they all work properly that is part of our scope also so there's there will be the the the shimmer uh there but i said but if the patriot shield is what we're looking for we'll definitely do the the white background for the base and then we'll come back and be able to paint in the um the additional artwork there okay so it sounds like um you're recommending that we move forward basically with number i think it was six or number one and then we come back later on with the

with the detail painting of the shield and the sides?

Yeah, because I think the number six looks like it has the same trim colors and then the same white background, and so it looks like it's all the same minus the shield portion or any of the areas, but we definitely will make sure, like you said, you're right, because in one it shows the plaque there, so we definitely will make sure that we do not cover that up.

The one also has that small red band that goes from the top of both of those doors, even though those doors are really on the inside. That's a, I think AI put those. Yeah.

They're, they're, they're more like holes right now as opposed to actually in a door on it.

So, I mean, there's obviously a, but that small banding that goes across about six foot off the ground, um, I think that should be red just because I don't think there's enough red on the modern patriotic. It's abundance of blue. I think having, like on number one, you see with that red banning in the middle? It continues over both archways of all three doors, actually, and I think that should all be red, like what's in number one.

So we'll go with number one, because it looks like that's the only real difference between the two.

That's what it looks like to me.

Yeah, so we're going to paint it like one and then come back and be able to do the Patriot Shield, is what it sounds like. Is that the consensus?

I'm so happy that the council allowed us to look at colors, and I know we mentioned it then. And the plaques are so important because they're significant to our history. But on the left and right of the band shelter, there's town criers that could announce what meetings are going on or what's happening at that location, whatever festival we're having on the left and right. And I love the town crier. What's a town crier? I don't know what that means. A town crier is the British are coming. But what happens is that guy ran around, the British are coming. But what they do now is the banners that are in towns, you know, our Christmas banners are town criers. What we can't put on the light poles because OUC owns them, they're called town criers because they announce what's coming up. And that's the terminology of a town crier. of what's happening in the town. And I've asked us to change the town criers in New York Avenue because they're on the street posts, and those are called town criers. You can call them banners, but it announces what's coming. And I don't know if we could use those areas, Mayor and Council, as, you know, upcoming events, what's coming on or what's happening at that event, and we could use those as placards Let's use the word placards.

You said like the left side, the facing side?

Yeah, that says what the venue is at that point. And a town crier is just announcing what's coming up. and I apologize for the terminology, but it's banners. We see them at Christmas. We see them here. They're called town criers because you announce the town before there's any electricity or anything, what's happening. So that's how they put up banners in history is they call them town criers. So if we started with one... Or if we put anything up, you know, Soldier City. Yeah, that can be interchangeable. It can be interchangeable, but we have the advertisement venue for it, and we can give them an advertisement. This is happening in this state, this state, this state. Just a suggestion. I am so excited that the council adapted this, and I think this is going to pop. You're going to go down 10th Street, and you're going to see this, and you're going, man, that's a band show. But whatever you all want, and I don't want to ask for too much, but sometimes town criers, their announcements of upcoming events are what's coming in the city. So I just ask council for the pleasure of that. We can announce it through a banner. I'm just looking at where we can announce events that are coming to the great, great area. So don't have an idea. I don't want to string it along for three years, but let's look at how we can use the marketing idea for events for this area. So I yield back to you, but every one of these is better than what's up there today.

Yeah. You want to start with one and then we go from there if anybody has any other...

I'm just looking at announcements. Another thing, the city events is what's going on. And again, Soldier City could say Sunday, Sunday, what's going on there? And I think we could utilize this more for our public venues.

I mean, all of these ideas are pretty cool. It's just what will stand out, right? And I think the white stands out. I think paint it red or blue. I think that's... you know, the whole thing is a little overkill. We can't go wrong painting white because if we say, you know what, maybe we change the color to something else, then we can do that. We can add on color.

I don't know what counsel's pleasure, but Modern Pacific looks good to me as an individual. Patriot Seal, because they do have those banners, which we call Tom Cryers, but it does, it covers up, our history.

Yeah, and as City Manager pointed out, these two are very similar other than the red banding here. What are your thoughts on that?

For me, red pops. Blue's neutral. White is almost like the sky.

This is a thicker banding of blue. And I just think there's too much blue and just not an even...

Right. Well, you've got your flooring is blue, too, so your accent should not be blue. If you have your flooring, which is a stable color, the accent should be different colors than that. Just my opinion. I apologize.

You want to start with number one, everyone? Is that okay? I know we're acting like interior decorators over here. You were about to make fun of us, weren't you? There's a comment from the audience. Are you all good with one? Okay. Yes. One is good to start, and then we can come back and put our finishing touches.

I think this is going to pop up. When you guys talked about repainting, I just didn't think that was, didn't show off that. From the side street, it looked like another tree.

Yes, sir. And Scott's the one who put these together. He did a lot better than some of the renditions I did. So I really do appreciate him putting it together for us. Thank you, Scott.

Okay. I also have two more items. First, at the last council meeting, there was a woman who came forward discussing the pavilions at Chisholm Park. She made it seem like it was a group of homeschoolers and was looking for assistance from the city council regarding our fees. At the time, city council directed that we work with her on an agreement. Since that meeting, We've learned that they are a for-profit school. They receive step-up funding. And so I'm looking for direction because the situation is a little different than what was presented to the city council. And so I'd like to know, does the city council still want us to move forward and find a different solution? type of agreement. We have a standard agreement for for-profit entities. That is a 75-25 split. And that's a standard. So I'm looking for direction. Just because the situation changed, I wanted to make sure City Council still wanted us to do something different with them.

It's changed because they're a for-profit and not a non-for-profit.

Correct.

But it's still education, right? It's not a...

Well, my impression when she was here was it was more like a group of parents that were getting together where this is an actual school that the parents pay tuition. She's a teacher. Um, and, and they're for profit.

Okay. And are they at that location every time? Cause the way they told me was that they move around. They're not always at the same place.

They use six pavilions, I think, is what? Four pavilions? That was also not really shared with the city council, was how many pavilions they're using.

Right, well, that's not what I'm asking. They don't always hold it right there at Chisholm Park, is what I was told. Oh, I can't answer. Sometimes they will move around to other locations.

They do. What their request was, their initial request was for four pavilions, four days a week at Chisholm Park. And then... They came back and said they no longer wish to have the city take a look at creating a separate agreement for them. They felt that they should not fall under the ordinance that was passed. Then they said that they could just use an open space area someplace. That would be difficult for any program to just, especially a school, to just hold a program and in the open space area, you know, there are concerns about what would happen when it would rain. Are they really not going to use those open space areas? And we don't rent those open space areas. Those open space areas are for the general public.

And we also found that there is another school that's operating out there. We found it being advertised online.

Correct. A almost identical type of commercial program.

Okay. Well, then I think we need to get all that information from both sides and see what we're really dealing with. This is during the week. How many days a week?

Three to four days a week. Four days? They requested per what they submitted to the city is four days a week, four pavilions for five hours a day, 30 to 40 kids, 32 weeks a year.

Okay, what is their opinion on the 75-25? They don't want to pay anything?

No, they feel that that's too much. Their business model, they stated to us that their business model does not allow them to pay that type of amount. They charge anywhere between $545 per month to $610 per month to participate. All right.

And does the money go towards any supplies? I mean, do we know? I'm sure that, yes, absolutely.

That's part of their overhead. Okay. The same way that any program that we do.

It's not just all cash going to one person. There's supplies. There's other stuff. Curriculum.

I'm sure. I'm sure there is. Absolutely. All right. I mean, they are a, while they say they are not a franchise, CKC is a, organization that they have bought the name and the program for that operates throughout the country.

That's the curriculum. Correct. Council Member Paul.

And I do want to say I also reached out to Ms. Haley to actually come in and have a meeting and because she kept seeing about the 75-25 and I told her if you can't afford it come and sit with me and show me the ins and outs and I would bring it back to the council that you Really can't afford it, but she declined because she said staff wouldn't listen to her and I told her at the end of the day we are the ones that make the decision and I haven't heard back from her as well on that so and then I know another issue was some of the parents get to step up voucher and my question to Scott is parents that get the voucher, they can't pay the city directly with that. They pay actually the organization. Is there a way for the organization, that one person, Haley, to pay the city in one and not just having parents separately paying?

That's absolutely correct.

Okay.

That's not a problem.

Maybe mentioning that to her as well?

We did have that conversation with her. We let her know that there was an option to do that where instead of the individual, the city's general 75-25 agreements are the participants have to pay the city. That way we can verify if the numbers that are coming are actually the numbers. However, with something of this nature, some other programs, similar to the one woman who came forward with the Camp Gladiator, the city does have options where we can work with them and just collect that revenue from the individual business.

Okay, because she stated that per child she gets about $350. Okay.

That's the extra money that they get from Step Up, correct? We took a look at what they would potentially be bringing in based on their costs that they advertise and their gross revenues. So again, not knowing how they choose to run their personal business, but their gross revenues would be upwards of $130,000. All right.

I think to really have, for us to have an opinion, we need all that information. Can you guys send that information? Whatever their numbers are. I don't have any numbers.

It was in the email that went out to everybody.

That's where everything is?

Yes, sir. But we can send, I can send that again.

Talking about the step-up program that's involved?

The step-up program isn't something that we're involved in. That's something that each private business is.

Yeah, but any conversations, anything that they've offered, or whatever money they're making...

That's just part of their regular revenues. But that's in the email. No, that's not in the email. The step-up program is they were concerned about the step-up program. The step-up program is something that individuals who want to participate in the program, they just pay the vendor for it. That's not something that the city is involved in.

I think what the mayor is asking you for is a synopsis of each of your meetings and the information that you learned from her in each of those meetings. We'll get that out to you.

We'll get that out to the council.

Okay, thank you.

Deputy Mayor.

Thank you. And Step Up is a great program. The for-profit is a great program. Each child could get up to, I think it was $10,000, it might be $13,000 a year for homeschool. And part of that program is to participate in extracurricular activities for that. And these are for-profit organizations. And I sound alike with the school thing. I don't like kids. I love kids. But these are for-profit organizations. Step Up is a qualification that's paid by government. The $13,000 is a homeschool kid. Most of these children, I would assume, and I don't know, please forgive me for my assumption, that they are profiting from that. And they're utilizing our facilities for that, which is good, but where do you draw a line that who can go there and who cannot? If they use four pavilions and they don't, then we're getting into, okay, you get it and you don't get it and you get it. So I think our standards should be, I think we should set standards of if you're a for-profit organization and you get staff up and you are that, and again, figures don't lie, letters don't figure. You ask them for a spreadsheet and you said 100-some grand, But, you know, you're looking at $13,000 per kid in a home school, and they said, well, I want a home school, but I want my child to have interactive things. And then there's the step-up thing. So just past $350 a month, you can hang out, and we'll just hang out in the parks. And that's cool, too. But the person that's organizing it, just like the, and again, I'm not a bad person, but just like the football and baseball and basketball and all those programs that use our parks for profit, It should be not-for-profit for everybody. If it's for-profit, there should be a revenue source that we can share for the taxpayer money, because these are a percentage of people. And I get this, and I like this, and the charter schools, I like all that, but we really have to look at this is a for-profit organization. And if I say I'm going to homeschool my child, which I had five, I'd make a lot of money, and I just want to get them out of the house. But if you have $13,000, you want to homeschool your kids, you can homeschool them for four hours and say, I'm going to send them to your program, and you're going to pay me $350 a month, and I'll take care of them. So these are waters we haven't crossed with these kids. So we have to look at for-profit organizations instead of standards. In MPOs, we have to look at, but this is not an MPO. And that's the difference when we looked at it. When it was an MPO, I'd go, hey, open the doors. But those folks are doing 113, and I don't know. So I asked the council to consider all the citizens that are using our facilities for profit organizations and the nonprofits go on. I don't have an answer. But I know that these folks that go there, somebody's making money, and they're using their facilities. So I yield back to you, council, consider what we could do, what's amicable, 75-25. But once you have the books, then you can look at it. But, you know, books get cooked. But we have to look at for-profit organizations in using our facilities. We have to be fair to every citizen. So I don't have the answer, but I know these programs are making money. And I'm okay with that, but they're using our facilities. So I'd rather it to be MPOs versus profits. I don't have that answer, and I yield back to our council and our city manager to figure that out.

That's why I want to look at all the information, because if one person is acting as the teacher, right? or two people, I expect somebody to receive payment for their time. Now, if it's a company that's just stacking cash away and swimming in Uncle Scrooge's money bin, I do expect if it's going to be somebody that steps up and actually does the teaching and the curriculum, that they should be paid for their time. And that's where I want to see all the numbers and see how this really stacks up. Council Member Urban.

Yeah, like Deputy Mayor Gilbert said, you've got to kind of separate emotion from what's reality. And I'm a huge supporter of homeschoolers. I think it's growing wildly, very popular now. If you do something, and by the way, I met with this organization. They're very nice. I think they've got a great program. But if you do something for one program, then you're going to have five programs waiting in line saying, well, what about me? And unfortunately, we're a growing city. We're going through growing pains. We can't just, if I had a heart and 100 acres of land, I would give it out for all the homeschool organizations to use. What are you missing, the heart or the 100 acres? Both. But it's just, we've got to figure out a system for this, and I think bringing back some more data and information, maybe we can work it out.

Yeah. And maybe ask the question, what are they capable of paying? If they can't do the 2575, did they answer that?

Not directly. I would guess it would be zero. No, they said they were willing to pay a little bit. They came up with a couple different options. They were talking about maybe $7,000, something of that nature, where The cost, based on what they have actually requested, if someone were to rent that, it would be $76,800 for anyone to rent the amount of facilities that they're talking about.

How much does it cost to rent our stage? Everybody gets that for free. Then we pay $220,000.

That's CRA hat.

Let's call balls and strikes on this now. Tell them they can use the stage. It's free.

And the 75-25 split would have them paying, they would save $44,000.

They gave a couple different examples that they wanted to pay, like $5 per student or $8 per hour. Right. Okay.

All right. I guess there's more information and everything. We'll get it. Appreciate it.

Okay, one more. So I believe it was at the last council meeting, may have been the council meeting before, the city council agreed to purchase the property at 10th Street owned by Mr. Beecham. It's currently CloudCare Medical Office and the tenant would like time to find another location and potentially build another location. So I sent the city council his email that he sent yesterday. So originally, when we started talking about taking over the lease, I had explained to him that as a St. Cloud business that we weren't looking to run him out, that we wanted to work with him to find another location. But I also did tell him I have five bosses and I later asked him for more detail on how long he might need. So I'm looking for direction here from the city council if you would like to, I guess, meet his request. One of his requests, he had two requests here. One was the lease is supposed to end November 1st, so he's asking for a six month period after that to identify and close on a location and vacate. He's explaining that because he's a medical office, there's a lot more that has to be done, that he can't just move into a new location. And the other request, when we started talking, he had said to me, you know, I could build something. He explained he has some medical buildings that he's been pursuing. One was in Seminole County. One was in Tampa. He showed me pictures. I thought, oh, great. We're looking for more commercial square footage in the city. So I met with the planning department and actually, I'm sorry, I met with the business navigator and I explained that he was looking for a space on 192 and she found that at 326 East 13th Street, it was for sale. It had an approved site plan on it. It had building permits that had recently expired. And he would like to purchase this property and build an 8,100 square foot medical office building. He's saying that it would take him 14 months from the date his permits were approved if we allowed him to do that. So I'm looking for direction if the City Council is willing to give him a new lease for a certain time period, or if you want us to move forward with our project, and I'll ask him to leave by November 1st.

Deputy Mayor, you have your light on. Thank you, Mayor, and thank you for City Manager. We're buying the facility to put restrooms in, which is a well-needed thing. I think it would open up more of the businesses that would be open through the special events because talking to those vendors, their biggest concern is they don't buy any goods and they walk and use the restroom. I think if these public restrooms would help in these events, so maybe we'd have more vendors open their businesses because we do have dedicated public restrooms. Another thing, it's a medical facility, and it's nurse practitioners that go through that, and they go through Medicare, and I want services to all of them. And this is just an assumption, but I heard that one of the people that work there, the leasees, are under investigation for not doing good things, and I don't want to go on public records. But they've been in the newspaper for doing that.

That was at 1401 New York. That wasn't this property.

Okay. That was not this property. So my thing is that sometimes I don't want this to be a hotel job. I don't want them to say, hey, we're good. We're going to build it. And I'm sorry we haven't found the land, haven't found that. So I want to be compassionate. I think I'm the least compassionate person on the board here today. because I don't like kids, I don't like people, I don't like anything. And quite frankly, I do. But if we purchase a facility for the better good, we have options. The guy that plays the guitar, sings country music, he just left his facility, worked perfect for them on Florida Avenue. And I don't know that, but there are buildings available for him. But I don't... At the pleasure of council, I don't think we need to extend the lease. I don't think we can do a month-to-month until we get our contractors in, until we get them ready to build, and give them that three or four months until we sign those contracts. Because through the city, it takes six months to get the renovations done. But we shouldn't have a forever build. And if he's going to build something, three or four years, I think these restroom facilities are going to attract more people. and keep the vendors open later at night. I just really do because they'll have public facilities in their venues. They go into public facilities. That's what I've heard, and I don't know. But I don't think of any extended lease goes to any of them, maybe a month-to-month lease until we get our permits, until we're ready to build. I don't have the answer. But once you buy a facility and you say you can stay here, you have to kick them out. They're going to squat, and I don't mean this person or whatever, and it's a service, and I'm not putting that line down, but I don't know. Again, I'm the baddest person in the world, but there has to be deadlines. You get three months to find a new facility because that's a permit system. It's going to take us six months to build, but I don't want to be here three years later and go, hey, the hotel's coming along. We got a new permit. I mean, if we allow that, This may be the thing, and I've been spanked too many times, and I don't want to be spanked again. So I would ask the council, when I was a kid, I don't ask the council to consider that there is a deadline and there's a soft spot of maybe 90 days before... and them finding a new place. I don't want to be a leasee. I want to rebuild these things. I want it to be the coolest thing in the world. You walk in, you have to go to the bathroom, boom, you got two great facilities there, and then you can go on to our public venues. That, again, is my opinion. I leave it to the pleasure of the council to consider that, and I yield back to you, Mayor.

All right. Yeah, and this lease expires October 31st. Is that correct? Yes, sir. All right. And I do know the current property owner. He has told this tenant he would never give him an extension. There's other issues that have occurred there?

Late fees.

Bounce checks. 3-0.

So that's my concern. We're just getting that information secondhand, but you are correct. The proprietors told me he would not extend the lease. That is correct.

I have major concerns with how this is. We voted to move forward to purchase this. And with the intent of bathrooms, not to be landlords for, um, to kick that project out two years. Cause that's essentially what would happen if we give this guy 14 months, which I think would turn into 18 months. Uh, anybody that's developed property on the highway knows that, uh, it's not the easiest and there's always delays, especially if he's doing 8,000 square foot building the site work itself. I mean, does he even have funding yet? That could take six months.

I only have the information in the email that's before you.

Right. That could take six months. The site work could take six months. The building itself could take eight months. And that's when we can start the bathrooms. Before you know it, we're three years into this with no bathrooms, and we just voted to spend $700 and how many thousand dollars for bathrooms. Um, I just don't, well, we spent the same amount. How much does he pay in rent right now? $3,000, 3000 a month. We just voted to spend less than that $700,000 and we generate $6,500 a month in rent. So it's a horrible business deal for the city of St. Cloud and the residents. I'm good. Obviously they've got, they've known since January. This guy has known since January. Um, I know he's been included in conversations all the way that this whole way, knowing that the city of St cloud intended on purchasing this, uh, cause I do know the landlord has kept them in tune with that. So I don't believe we should be in the, uh, the site selection business for businesses that are already here. If we have outside entities, I think it's, it is not a good, uh, way to spend our tax dollars just to shift people from here to there. I think we have competent real estate brokers in this community that we can recommend they go speak with them. That's what they're getting paid for. I know this property is owned by a real estate broker. I'm good friends with them. So we should just pass them on to her and let them find them somewhere to rent in the process. We don't need to spend additional staff time on this. I really don't. I think it's a waste of staff time. Like I said, there's competent realtors. There's an entire association that we sit here and give proclamations for and how great they are. So with that, I say we let their contract expire. And when do we close on this, Dan?

Well, we're waiting for some direction on this particular issue, but we're ready to close probably on August 19th.

I mean, regardless of what we do with this, we should just be closing, right?

We're off to the races. We have our schedule to close August 19th.

Okay. All right. I say we close on it. And come November 1st, they should have a place. They've known. They've had plenty of leeway to know. And if you read their lease agreement, it actually says that it's 200% of the current rate. Did you read that section? If they hold over. If they hold over. So, yeah, this guy is going to want to extend at the same rate or even a little bit over. Okay. But the agreement that the landlord now has says that 200%...

It has a double rent holdover. Which is pretty typical for a holdover. Basically, a holdover is when you don't have an extension and you refuse to leave. Mr. Gilbert's point.

No, he thinks we're suckers, so we're just going to give him more time in here. He's had plenty of time. There's plenty of opportunities out there. And to use the excuse... Oh, well, it needs to be doctor's offices. They're not doing surgeries in this building. What is in these units? First of all, he's not a doctor. His wife's not a doctor. It's a business. They bill insurance companies. They bring doctors in. The previous owner, the father was a doctor. And so this was sold. It's a business. It's a business.

Yeah, Mayor, I would just caution having so much discussion about their business enterprise. If the council doesn't... Well, he put it in here. I understand that.

It's talking about medical offices.

I understand that.

And I'm only arguing the fact that what has really entailed a sink and a counter and an examination seat?

If you're referring to what it would take him to relocate, I don't know.

Do you know how many physicals I've had in the Stewart-approved title years ago? That was the doctor's office, right? And they literally just took the sinks out. So that's it. I think he went way overboard on extending this, trying to get 14 months. So, okay, what happens seven months into this and the guy's got the approvals and he started the block work and then he goes bankrupt or anything happens?

Well, we would be evicting him and we would be holding back whatever deposit he's given to the current property owner.

So then we, based on that, we would have lost six months or seven months, eight months, whatever it may be, of being able to start our bathroom in hopes that he'd have a completed 8,000 square foot building. So we're betting that he is going to complete this project.

Right.

I don't want to bet. Not with taxpayer dollars, not $780,000, whatever we paid for this.

You are basically gambling that his timeline that's in here, he's going to meet everything in that timeline.

If he wants to pay us, if he doesn't, major penalties. But I don't think he's going to do that, and I really don't think that's in the best interest of the citizens. I agree with the Deputy Mayor. We need to move forward with the bathrooms. I think that's why we committed the money. I think that's why we moved forward with the purchase of it. I dang sure would have voted against it had I thought that this would even be an idea. Council Member Fletcher.

I was only going to say that. What he says in here is accurate, which I believe this particular section is, is that we have a lack of medical space in the city, and hopefully our economic development consultant can help us with that through the MAC, et cetera, et cetera. That's all I have, and I agree. If you want to do month-to-month like he's saying, or you wanted to go ahead and lapse, they can leave. I'm fine with that, too.

Council Member Urban.

And please, uh, whatever the city can do to expedite construction on November 2nd. That would be great.

All right. So I'm so clear. The consensus is just where the city's council is not interested in renewing his lease. It expires October 35th.

Yes, sir. Yep. And I say we move forward with the, uh, the design plans. Have we had, do we have a conceptual of these bathrooms?

Mr. Felblinger has to speak to that. I think he has to. The city's in the process of hiring architects through continuing services, so we have someone on contract, and I believe then that is who Mr. Felblinger is going to be working with.

Kevin, thanks for putting a suit jacket on. I watched you walk in, and there's a dais here. You can throw that out.

It's professional.

And I apologize. Like I said, I should have a better shirt underneath it, but like I said, it's just kind of the day got to me, and I didn't get home in time to get changed, so I do apologize for that. Kevin Felbler, deputy public works director. It's been one of those days. It's only seven, man. I'm telling you, it is not 1230. I have no excuse whatsoever. Yeah, like I said, we will have to get a design goal. We don't have a conceptual plan yet. We do have the layout that we are going to be doing. Men's on one side, women's on the other. We are talking about having storage on the back side and also having a future IT closet for any kind of improvements we have through there. So we have that concept put together. But like I said, we'll have to engage professionals to be able to get the actual plans done to be able to get that going. But like I said, we will get it going as quickly as we can. All right. What's the timeline? Who do we have? The architects, I believe, should be on the 20th?

I believe the architects are on the August City Council meeting for continuing services, and then we have to execute contracts with them and a task authorization.

As I said, as we're starting to execute the contracts, we can always engage with the people that are selected. We can engage with them about trying to get a scope and be able to get that back, hopefully on the September agenda, I think would be the quickest we'd be able to get a scope there, as long as they can put it together as quickly as they can. I don't know how quickly they would be able to put it together, but I would hope if we talked to them, it shouldn't be too difficult for them to be able to put a scope together for us. And we'll be aiming for getting it on the September, one of the two September agendas. I know we have two agendas in September, so...

Okay, and we're talking about two bathrooms and a storage space in the back of it?

There's two doors, so we thought one door easily could be the girls' side, one door easily could be the boys' side. And then Parks and Rec, when there's events downtown, we don't have storage, so we wanted to potentially have storage for the barricades that we use, the frequent things that we're having to bring downtown for other people's events. And then potentially when Centennial Park is redone, if it's done in the future, there could be a need for an IT closet for sound, et cetera, at Centennial Park.

All right, and do we know a timeline on how long it would take for this architect to do the plans? I mean, it's pretty quick.

We're going to get them, like I said, when we talk to them about the scope, we will make sure we emphasize to get it done as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, professionals sometimes take a little bit longer than they promised us, but like I said, we definitely will. emphasize that we will get a scope and have milestones, and we will hold them to those milestones that we bring forward to you.

All right, thank you. Council Member Fletcher. I have an idea. So on the continuing service contract, so we have like five that we can choose from, right? Or however many that we can choose.

Usually it's like three to five is how many. I don't know how many are on this one.

So we could call all of them and say we need this back in 30 days. If that one can't do it, then that one can do it. Let's put them on a timetable.

Yeah, I understand that, but I also know when it comes to engineers, I know there's the CCNA sometimes. You can't go and request multiple scopes. They kind of get into that.

Well, typically what we do, they're set up with task authorizations. Typically once we determine what the task is, We are going back to them. And one of the, one of the things that is part of the evaluation process is how quick can you get the job done? So, uh, that would be part of it.

Council was recommended 30 days. Can you do it?

That's we, like I said, um, I said, I, I, I do not know who the architects are, but like I said, cause I wasn't part of that committee. But I will definitely be finding out tomorrow and be reaching out to the most qualified ones because we are going to try to get it done as quickly as we can. And like I said, I'm going to push them to get it on the September 1 and with the quickest schedule to kind of get the design because it should be pretty straightforward on being able to do that area there. I think there's going to be some issues with making, like I said, the biggest issue I think is going to be some of the plumbing that you're going to have to do to be able to change it from offices to bathrooms. I think it's going to be some of the biggest challenges we're going to face with this.

Yep. Easiest thing is just drawing the four walls and the roof on it and then kind of let them go from there.

And then we also have the original newspaper from the original area there, and we were trying to get doors that looked like from the original. The original ones had portholes on the doors, and we thought that would really be cool to try to bring that back into that and try to reincorporate some of the original doors.

To look like portholes, not necessarily to be portholes.

They are peepholes, right, like I said, but they had...

I knew that was coming. We've been here for too long.

I'm not going to that bathroom.

But they had some of those architectures from back in the 50s. So we have the original newspaper that had the original facade there that showed the door and stuff like that. So we're going to try to get something to get that look back.

Maybe we can put a bunch of copies inside the bathrooms there for people to read up on. Thank you, Kevin.

That's all I have.

Thank you, City Manager. All right, we have Claudia Dundas here from the Daughters of the American Revolution. Would you like to come up here, Claudia?

Thank you. Claudia Dundas, 1425 Hidden News Bend.

You can move it right down. Oh, thank you. There you go.

Perfect, okay. Actually, I just found out about this meeting today, so forgive me. But I am here to... ask for permission, one, for our marker dedication to be happening on the 14th of November. I've submitted a copy of what the monument for our marker would be and what I would need actually just to move forward with the construction of that and permission to proceed with that, getting that built and ready to go.

Okay. If you all recall, the Daughters of the American Revolution, they want to put a monument there, recognize those who fought in the Revolutionary War. Yes. And do we have a picture of that, Scott, or what I had sent? The sketch. Remember the sketch that I had sent? You sent out to council. Everybody got that in their emails? Okay. Okay. So I assume it, what's the height?

It is, if I recall correctly, it's a two and a half foot high with a slant. So it would kind of be similar to this, but just shrunk down a little bit. The plaque is 20 by 20, or the marker is 20 by 20. And I've submitted images of that prior as well. But that's what that... Monument Heights would be it's white basically and Having insert not really an insert but like an inch inset around the side just to make it a little bit more Formal of a look if that's approved.

What do you mean inset?

It's just kind of like Yeah, like a bevel so would this be a concrete block it would be concrete block the gentleman who is asking or has volunteered to do it has said he would do it for a He's going to be building it. He is a resident here in St. Cloud. My mind escapes me. I know his first name is Scott, but his last name is escaping me at this moment. But he has volunteered to build it according to your desires as well. And he's going to do it just for materials. So instead of it being a $2,500 investment, it's whatever it's going to cost to build it. So that from a nonprofit for the Daughters of American Revolution, that would be an amazing cost savings. So we're really excited about that.

Very cool. Very similar to Winter Parks and Celebration, I guess. Yes.

He has looked at both of those. I sent images of both of those. And so he's taken that where they have just straight up and down. He's just added a little bit of a bevel to it just to add character to it, knowing what the GAR monuments, it will be sitting close to looks like. At least that's my understanding of where it's going to be placed.

Yeah, we probably want it even further before that. And that's where, do we have a map up? Because this is, council's going to select where we'd like to. That was the whole purpose. Okay, thank you. So tell us about yourself. No, thank you for everything you do, obviously, with your organization. And I've worked heavily with the, not just with the Daughters, but the Sons of the American Revolution.

Yes, I'm really excited they actually The Sons of American Revolution have advised that they will participate as our color guard, and that could be anywhere from five sons coming, and it could be up to 15 in presentation, just depending upon how many of them come that day. So pretty excited about that.

The 14th is a Saturday.

14th is a Saturday. It will fall on the same day as the soldier market, soldier city market. Yes. I think I said that right.

Yeah. And y'all have set up a table there.

Uh, we will have, um, yes, we'll have a table and a canopy. So we'll be there post, um, post dedication.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. And one of the things I want council kind of way on is looking at the future of that part. Um, you know, especially if that part grows, you know, I, I, It's fenced in all the way around right now. And wherever the placement of this goes, we need to take into account, well, what if we wanted, say, in the future, a sidewalk on the inside of that fence? We'd want it placed far enough away from that fence to allow for that. That's kind of the thoughts. I think we're still waiting on Scott. I can pull it up on Google Earth and put it on the projector, couldn't I? So I'll have it up before it gets back here.

So while you're pulling it up, just to let the council know, Ms. McGrin watches our council meetings. And so we definitely had a miscommunication. So she would have been here, but she thought because there was some proposed last minute changes to the agreement that it wasn't going to make it on the agenda. So just letting council know, she didn't skip the meeting on purpose. It was a miscommunication.

Dirtiest thing we have on us.

That's actually the conception of the concept of the monument itself so you can see it's I think I said it right with the two feet high mm-hmm 25 it's gonna be 24 across so the 20 it'll have a border to it if you wish to say or The support on that and I see it's 24 in the back and 20 in the front, right? so it'll be a little bit of a slant not too much but enough to allow water to run off and The intent is for it to be all white, so no difference between the bevel area being a different color. It's going to be an all-white monument.

Scott Abshire. Thank you. His name's on there. Everything's on there.

I asked him to add it all on there so that you guys, in case you needed it.

Very good. Thank you to Scott for offering to do that. Yeah.

Yeah, can we get the map on there now? And I would be happy to assist with any permits that he would need. to acquire with that. If I need to do that, I can certainly help him if he needs that additional assistance.

Scott, you see where the GAR monument in the very corner? Corner of New York and 192. Can you point like a pen or something to show everybody? Nope, the GAR, the white. That's it right there. I would suggest we keep it at least that distance away from the fence and go, of course, south with it. So if you go back to the GAR with your pen and go straight south. Yeah, maybe close to that area. Yeah, but kind of equal distance away from the fence. I think we want to kind of make it make sense, right? Yeah, what do you all think?

This is American Revolution. About this, I think if we do this stuff, we have to know that history, we're going to have to put more things up there, and we need to have a plot of land to know that. If this is dedicated, then it should be dedicated for the future of these historic events because I hope there will be more.

I would hope so, yeah. I know that the sons wanted to do something.

If we start one, it's so cool to walk through and bend them out a piece and walk through. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. If we do this, I would like to at least put a piece of land dedicated not just to this monument, to all of them in the future.

Yeah, and that one right there, that kind of puts it in order because we've got the GAR, and then if you go further east, you've got the World War II cannons. I don't think we have anything from World War I, do we? Anything recognizing the veterans of that? No. Where he just put the one, that gives enough room to put something like War of 1812 in between the two of them, if we choose to recognize the veterans of that as well.

I hate to say I'm the oldest of the group, but that would be kind of a first monument.

And obviously there are veterans buried here for Spanish-American War, and I don't think we have a monument for Spanish-American War veterans in that park.

I don't know that we do. Not in that park.

Right. Right. So that's our future, right? And this is Veterans Park. This is where, obviously, with the – what did you think about this discussion?

I'm excited about that. I had thoughts, but I'm going to keep them to myself.

And just like you had Scott participate, Mr. Abshire. Yeah. The city manager spoke with a child doing an Eagle Scout project. That's awesome. Got the materials donated from Home Depot for, I think, some tires from another organization. I don't think the tires are on there yet, but they painted those two cannons in the front, so he did and his family as an Eagle Scout project. Thank you for your organization for stepping up and doing this.

I'm really excited to bring it to St. Cloud. I think it's important for us to remember our history, especially this year out of all years.

In the way I looked at this, in the future, say the park expands even more to the east, there can be, say, a sidewalk on the inside of that fence that just passes by every one of these monuments all the way in the memorials. That's why I kind of wanted to keep it away from the fence in case we chose to do something like that. Maybe even if it's not this council, it kind of prepares for the next council. Absolutely. Are you all good with where Scott put number one for this monument? Deputy Mayor? Oh, I'm sorry.

Are you good with that? Yeah, 100%. I'm envisioning this being the monuments for more, you know, It's a beautiful property.

And they wrap all the way around the front. All the way to the east side, there's a monument for Civil War veterans, all the way to the oak trees in the corner of, what is that, Pennsylvania? Pennsylvania and 192. So it kind of wraps around the northern end.

It needs to be a historic spot. We're building veterans. People go, hey, let's stop by there. So that's just my opinion.

Even the band shell was built in 1952. Red, red, and blue. I can't even read. 52. 52, yeah, okay. So that is historic, according to our standards here in the city of St. Cloud, right? That's 70. All right, thank you, Claudia. Appreciate it. Thank you. What's the timeline? You said construction. You can start.

As soon as he has the approval to proceed, I've given him the date of the event, which will be the 14th of November, and I said... He needs to create his timeline of his, because he's volunteering his time to do it.

So I want to... How can we assist on your side? Do they have to sign some documents or construct something in there? Something's got to be... Yeah, we...

I'll have to look back at the last month that we put in there. We did require the organization to sign off on something. I'll find that tomorrow. We'll get it moving. Okay. That would be wonderful. I'm happy to assist in any way.

We've never done a permit for the historic markers that Main Street puts up. We've never required a permit.

Okay, very good. Thank you very much. Thank you all for your time.

All right, take care.

Thank you.

All right, city attorney. Does anybody else have a city attorney? Do you have anything?

No, sir. Thank you. All right, city manager.

Oh, I'm sorry. I jumped into all my items earlier. You said you were done with everything. I am done. Thank you.

All right, council member Fletcher. The only thing that I had was, can we have somebody take a look at the lights in downtown and the music, I guess.

Again? Yeah. No, I'd love to just hear the music out there. Wasn't there something on the roof here that controlled that?

Yeah. I'll talk to Mr. Miller. He was the person who was working on that. And what's going on with the lights?

The lights, they're not on. Not working.

Is it the string lights we're talking about?

The string lights, yeah.

Oh.

So I don't know what we can do to... I don't know if it's a company that we can get or something to maintain it to ensure that it's always working. Because I think the residents really

Well, we used to have a battle with the squirrels. So that seems to have stopped. But let me make sure that we didn't have a rogue squirrel come back and chew the wrong line. So they're all out? Because just earlier this week, I drove by and they were on.

I don't know if they're on a container or something. And when I drove by, they were off or something. But just check off. Other than that, I don't have anything else. Thank you.

Is it dark? Council Member Urban? Council Member Paul, any comments?

Yes, I do want to share St. Cloud Chamber of Commerce is having their 2026 annual banquet presented by Orlando Health. The theme is rooted in tradition, rising together. It will be on September 19, 2026 at 530 at the OHP Park in Kissimmee. So I wanted to share that, and everyone have a great weekend.

All right, thank you. Council Member Urban. With all these improvements that are going on at Veterans Park, I think it's really cool. Can the city put maybe a plaque on the back of the band shell saying, you know, this refurbishment was done in recognition or in honor of America's 250th birthday? Something just historic. I still see plaques around from America's 200th birthday in different parks and places like that so i think it'd be cool there's some cities that do time capsules we could put a picture of deputy mayor gilbert's face in a time capsule and we'll open it in 100 years but just a plaque or something i think would be cool it's like they had cavemen

I think it's a really nice building. I'll work with Public Works and we'll find a way to do that. As long as there's money in his budget.

Yeah, are we also talking with the referral? Sorry, I didn't mean to jump right in. Go ahead, Deputy Mayor. I'll go ahead and let you say your piece on that.

Well, thank you. I apologize. I love kids. I love squirrels, but we can get rid of both of them. No, but for the light system. But I like grandkids, but my kids, I'm sorry. But squirrels, yeah. Every blind squirrel finds a nut every so often. They just do. But we... We looked at things, and we looked at the bonds, and we looked at what we're going to do with the bonds. We have $80 million worth of bonds that we signed off for. So I try to look at can we cancel those bonds? Do we have to use them? What's our time frame with those bonds? I've never been into municipality bonds. I've bought bonds personally, but there are restrictions with bonds. And so I met with the folks in our finance department. Our bonds are $80 million, and part of it is the baseball fields that have been completed. Also, there's some fire stations that have been there. There's the EOC that's there, part of this bond issue. There is the park that we talked about, Hopkins Park. I wasn't an opponent against it. But when you make $100 a year and all of a sudden they say, hey, you're going to make $80 a year, you have to prioritize what you're spending. In our bonds, we can do that. We can prioritize if the EOC, which I think is very important, the fire stations are very important, the ball fields, the Ridge Station. I would just like the council to look at what we spend that bond money on in the next few years. I have no disrespect for Hopkins Park, but I have to look at if I've cut my budget down by 20%, where's that money allocated? So I didn't know if we could shift money. You can cancel bonds, but then you don't have a AA rating and you don't get bonds as much and they cost you more. But you can extend bonds, and this is the toughest thing I have to tell council, We have to spend 80% of our bond money within three years because we assumed a bond, and I did not know that. So as council, we have to get some of these projects started. So I'd like to have council look at what your priority for those bonds are. And part of that is Hopkins, two fire stations, the police EOC, which is just phase one. Phase two is not in the bond. We're spending money that we're committed to spend, and I'd really like your help to find out how we can prioritize that money to spend in talking to Coop and talking to the bond people. We have to have payments on those bonds within three years of completion, and bonds don't get completed until projects are done. Weirdest thing ever, it's not a bond that Al would take out of her loan. It's a municipality bond that has no taxes on it, so those bond members, they want to cash out at that certain time. I just want to ask council to look at how we can prioritize our bond venue for what we got those bonds for and how we can vote which is more important for those bonds. We're committed to those bonds, so I thought let's get rid of them. You really can't without penalties that exceed the bond's value, if that makes sense. I don't want to get in the weeds about that. You can have replacement bonds. You can have Insurance bonds, you can have bonds on police vehicles, fire vehicles, and all that. But one thing we have to do is look at we've signed this bond. Some people have been on the board that we signed them. We have to be responsible for them. But we have to react in the next 24 months to get these started so these bonds are paid off so there's no penalties involved. So if we don't spend that money, and I know it sounds silly, we get penalized for not committing to those bonds. And I did not know that until I asked and I met with Coop and first time I ever seen him smile because he's talking to other bond people and, you know, they're talking accounting stuff and I didn't know it, but he smiled once. But those are things. So I'm going to ask council to look at the responsibilities we have at council at $80 million that we're going into bonds that what we want to prioritize and not debate what color the bond is, but what we prioritize and how we start those bonds. So I don't have the answer. I'm asking for council to communicate with me so we can go to the city manager and say these are the bonds we have. My priorities are the EOC. My priorities are the fire station. And again, don't fault me for Hopkins Park not wanting you to do that, but... I want to prioritize what the council needs at this present time. I don't want to neglect any of those bonds. The ball fields were part of the bonds, and that's already been done and paid for. So we have that. So I'll get more and dig deeper with you guys if you want to talk about it. We can't talk separately. But please look at the bonds and meet with the bond people. Get on FaceTime and let us know what's our priority. We don't have a lot of time. You have to spend that bond money in three years from conception, but it has to be done and the check has to be signed. If not, we get penalized. And I didn't even know that. So we said, we're going to commit to this bond. We have to start those projects. And I would pull back as a business owner and say, no, I don't want them anymore. But there's option one, two, or three. And option one or two is have the bonds that's set, redirect the bonds, or negate the bonds, which is going to cost us more by getting out of the bond system. And I'm trying to make it simple, but when we talked about it, I just want you guys to help me with this in the bond situation. What's your priorities as a city? And I think it's the EOC and it's the safety. But not negating Hopkins Park. We could build a civic center at Hopkins Park. We have a tin building. I mean, we could actually have a, pure civic center. So you can change the bond money, but you can't change the bonds. And you can't change the timetable in which you have to have the bonds started and pay for those bonds, which I did not know because I'd never been in a municipality bond. So I ask for the pleasure of the council to at least consider a workshop of what our priorities and our projects are, what these bonds are for, and how you would like to prioritize them. Don't know I made the comment, so I researched it, and I asked the pleasure to counsel, please consider what you think would be the best for this city in making $100 a year cut down to $80 a year and where we want to spend our bond money. So I yield back to you, Mayor. I don't have the answers. I just want to present it to you, and I don't get a chance to talk to you. So I yield back to you, and we've got to figure out. We've got $80 million. Where are we spending it, and what's our priority? Thank you very much. I yield back to you.

All right. Thank you. Council Member Pletcher.

I would agree with the fact that, you know, we need to, you know, take a look at the bonds if, you know, there's concern over that. I do want to say that, you know, there's been extensive community outreach involving, obviously, Hopkins Park and all of the other items. And, you know, we've gotten this far to the finish line several times with Hopkins, and it's always came down to something. You know, I don't know what that may be in the past, but... It would just be unfortunate. If we're going to take a look at the bonds and things of that nature, I would want to reopen the budget book and go through the entire budget again. I would look at it completely different if we were starting to take projects off the table. So I would want to start the budget process over if we're going to start cutting projects. stuff like that.

And I apologize if I call cutting budgets. We have to spend the money. For sure.

There's a timetable.

So we have that timetable. So I want to prioritize the BOP in the six... projects that we get the bonds for and just prioritize them. No projects leave the table. It's just a priority.

I understand definitely where you're coming from.

It's a tough thing because I never knew that. If I want to borrow money and I go, no, I don't want to borrow it, it's okay. We're committed to that with our AA rating with the bonds and we have to commit within spending them and we have three years from our commitment until we start paying them. I never knew that. I wish I could tell you I knew all about it. I just learned it from asking. And I would ask you all to meet with the bond people at Coop and get your own assessment of it and educate me, because that's not an area I'm educated in, borrowing money. I've been cheapy-cheapy. I don't borrow money. But now that's a lot of money for the citizens, and I would like everybody involved of what our presentation is. And nothing being cut. But what's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5? Is the EOC the most important? Is Hopkins a fire station, a fire truck? I just need council's help. I don't have that answer. I wish I did.

I have a question on that. So when we were looking at when COOP was going through the budget and the estimations and all of this stuff and projections, I should say, moving through the years, was it taking into consideration the debt payments that we would be paying on the bonds?

Can I answer that as part of just my overall comment because it kind of all goes together. So when we brought the bonds to the city council for approval, the city council did have a priority. Staff has been moving forward. I believe phase one of the police department is supposed to be on the August city council agenda, just like the Hopkins park was on the July agenda. The fire stations are under construction. I mean, at this point, the projects that were agreed upon by city council, it's just a matter of we're bringing them forward for final approvals, right? Like the engineering, everything's been done except for one project, and that's the final fire station because of what was happening with the homestead exemption I directed the fire chief to pause on the Center Lake Ranch fire station because if the homestead exemption passes, the likelihood of the city continuing to annex up Narcoossee is unlikely because it may not be financially sustainable for us. And so I asked the fire chief to pause because... If he doesn't continue going up Narcoossee, he's explained that that's not where he would want his final fire station to be. He has two options. The one was the station that's at Noir Tyson to make that a permanent station instead of the temporary station, and the other one was for Roan Bridge. So we're in the process right now. All of them are prioritized. We're moving forward. We've been working with COOP to meet our timeframe Trust me, COOP has been cracking the whip on the timeframe to make sure that we're gonna stay within the time needed. Regarding repayment, none of the bonds are being repaid with the general fund. They're all being repaid with impact fees. They were backed by the 120, which is the sales tax surcharge. So if you take something off the table, and move it to something else, we may not be able to cover it with impact fees. So for instance, if we took, and I'm just talking theoretically, I'm not proposing. Okay, so if you took the Hopkins money, because that seems to be the only question recently, and that's why we continued it for a month. If you took that money and put it towards the police department phase two, there is not enough projected impact fee revenue from the police department to cover that. So we would have to use more of the 120 fund. The 120 fund, then there would be less for us to do things that we normally do out of the 120 fund. kind of a lot of our capital projects. For instance, when the fire department needs to replace a fire truck, they can't use impact fees because it's a replacement. We use the 120 fund. We can use it to purchase other vehicles, police vehicles. It's... It's not as, we're limiting it for capital improvements. We're limiting it for vehicles and things like that. We don't use it for operating expenses. So that would be my fears. If you move it projection-wise, we may not have the ability to cover it without affecting other long-term projects.

If I may answer, Mayor, I just, during that meeting with the bonds people and the finance people, I know y'all are busy. I would just ask you to have that same meeting that I had with the finance director and the bonds people and the rules and regulations of such because I did not know that as a private business sector man. And all these projects are still going to take place with that bond money. I just didn't know what priorities we can change and we don't have to. But I'm just asking council because this is something I don't know. to have that same meeting and come back, and I can't talk to you guys except this meeting. It opened my eyes, because I said I would just cut 20 million off the bond until we find out. Well, you can't do that, because our rating suffers. Our AA rating, our payback suffers, and people don't want you to pay back bonds, I've been a person that doesn't want to be in debt. So please, if you may consider, have that same meeting with the bonds folks and the lawyers of the bond people in Coop and come back and advise me of what you think is a priority. Was that Sandy?

Sandy McClendon.

Sandy McClendon, and Jay was a lawyer in Coop. Well, he's an underwriter. He's an underwriter. I apologize. So I don't know. So I just don't know. When I asked the question, I had to figure it out, but I still haven't figured it out. So it's a pleasure to counsel. Please go in there and tell me. If Hopkins Park is number one, that's great. But we have to look at our budget as we do it with housing. Advise me. I wish I could advise you. At this point, I can't. But I know we have to spend that bond money. We can't go back and say we don't want to spend it. not only is they're too stringent, but what's our priority for the city of St. Cloud as we look at this ad valorem cut in revenue. Sorry I put that on you guys. I didn't know, this is one of those things I couldn't figure out. So if you all could help me, and I ask for the pleasure of the council to at least please look at it and advise me how we can spend our money wisely for the taxpayers.

All right, Council Member Paul has a comment on this.

So I was going to ask for the list, but according to our city manager, she said that they're already prioritizing. And I think I know we push Hopkins back to August 20th to continue, but... far as the conversation, we haven't really had a conversation on what that looks like in the future for Hopkins. So in August 20th, I'll be here in a couple weeks. So, you know, I would like to at least have some kind of conversation on what that looks like so we're not getting up here August 20th and saying, well, I don't know, we'll continue it again. So we have to have these conversations.

Council Member Irvin.

So I agree with Councilwoman Paul. Just so I can explain a little bit about this from my point of view, I'm in the construction industry, and it was taken a little bit out of context from our last meeting when we got these bonds. I mean, we have engineered drawings. We know exactly what we're building. We know exactly what we're spending on this. We're not just going in blind. If we were to change anything at Hopkins Park, that would mean going back to redesign. This process could take months or years to do. Every month, every day that we put this off, construction costs are going up. I would strongly advise the council to continue as planned at our August meeting. and get this thing moving because I guarantee even this one month that we delayed it, the cost went up and it's costing the city. And, and I agree with deputy mayor, uh, Gilbert, um, you know, the public safety is, is my number one priority in this city. Um, but, but government finance, I, it still confuses me to the, to these days, municipal bonds, everything, but it, it, it works a little bit differently from the private sector. And you've got these different pots of money that, You can only spend parks and rec fees on parks and rec, and you can only spend public safety fees on that. So this is being, what really reassured me is these are being paid by parks and rec impact fees. They're not being paid by ad valorem taxes. So this vote in November really doesn't have a lot of leeway on what happens here. I'm happy to meet with the bond representatives. I think I could learn a lot, just like you did. But again, I would strongly advise the city council to move forward with Hopkins Park as is because any changes, it's going to cost the city a lot of money just in delays and changing it up. City Manager.

Coop had sent me an email earlier today, so I just wanted to share this with the council. He said, if Hopkins Park was eliminated, it would cause the 1% surcharge to contribute 3.65 million of the 6.4 million debt service until 2045, unless police and fire impact fees were able to be increased beyond their current $1 million a year contribution. He also said the 1% surcharge may be able to handle an increase if we purchase the next fire engine replacement with the bond investment earnings. We can also purchase police vehicles with bond investment earnings, so that would also reduce the strain on the 1% surcharge, but it could also cause delays in city infrastructure replacements, roof, windows, and AC units, as well as complicate funding for the ERP that will need to be completed with additional short-term debt. So I'm happy to set up meetings with everybody with the bond council. We can set up a workshop if you guys want. Also, we do have a very short time frame since it's August 20th. That's the next conversation. And I will tell you, my finance director is with his grandson out of state. So there's no way that... I don't think he's here next week. I could be wrong about that. But he is currently...

He needed a vacation.

You don't need him for that FaceTime meeting, but I just need your help figuring that out. I don't want to change anything. I just need your help on this one. This isn't one I can say I've done it before because I haven't. So I love Hopkins Party. I'd love to continue it. So I'm just asking a favor. I know you guys are busy. Just go through that presentation and give me your advice. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Um, the stormwater pond out there at Hopkins, we didn't, obviously we didn't get that in the budget this year. Uh, is that out of these bonds money is going to pay for that?

Yes, sir. Okay.

And that's parks and rec would pay for that as well.

Or is that, could that come out of another parks and rec impact fees?

Well, that's my point. Can an other impact fees pay for that? I have another, there's no other, okay.

No, because it wasn't related to the road, and we don't have stormwater. It's only for this project. It's for the park, yes.

I thought it was a multi-reason, a multi-purpose stormwater pond.

It was for the park. I'm looking at my public works director who demoted himself to deputy earlier today.

It doesn't have something to do with the road as well?

I think what you're talking about is there is a separate project that there are grant dollars that the city is working with Toho for that's bringing the sewer lines through River Road. Separate projects.

Oh, no. For some reason, I thought the Hopkins Park pond, that stormwater pond, was more than just for the redevelopment of the park. All for Hopkins Park. It is 100%.

We had to purchase additional land because the original design didn't include the stormwater, and we didn't have enough. So we had to actually buy land to put the stormwater pond on.

Okay.

councilman fletcher do you still have anything um then also adding to the hopkins park and then so every time we continue something like i always so we continued hopkins park last month and then we what was the email that the city manager had sent us it was like something about the portables and there was a cost involved in all of that so i would agree with councilmember urban that Every time we continue something, we don't necessarily, it's so easy, it's like, you know what, let's take a look at it, you know, next month. And it's like, shoot, well, that just cost $50,000. And then also as we go through this process with Hopkins, I think it would be great if we, you know, worked with like the Orlando Magic or Osceola Magic or Home Depot or like Geldwin who, you know, can help put in windows. They have, there's all of these private enterprises that will help when it comes to building basketball courts, doing all these things. Like in Kissimmee, they did that. They built basketball courts and they've done everything. And I think it would be great if we could partner with them to offset some of these costs. So we may not have got the $500,000, you know, for the stormwater, but how can we replace it through different avenues? Maybe not the stormwater, but we could offset it somewhere else. And I think, you know, we should be working on that, too. So that's my comments.

Well, if we award that contract, I mean, how would that contractor take those items out? How do we subtract that?

I'm going to use the words of the Deputy Mayor. I don't have all the answers.

I think we've got an attorney here to help us.

Well, we would work through those in negotiations, but through change orders. They'd almost be like self-performed owner and performed things. They'd be pulling out of the contract price.

All right. Deputy Mayor, you were the... That was your topic you brought up. Is there anything else you want to speak about?

No, I just needed advice. Normally, you know, I'm boisterous. I have an opinion, you know. Everyone does.

Yeah, we wish you stopped doing that.

They elected me to not be popular. But that's why I need your advice. I mean, we have five brilliant minds that need some help. Thank you.

All right, anything else? All right. I don't really have anything else other than I know next week I'll be down at Florida League of Cities in Hollywood with the Florida League of Mayors on Wednesday and then the trainings and the conference down there where we're going to be talking about the property tax amendment. So who knows where that thing's heading. I know it went before a judge the other day and the state's got a number of days to respond to that. So other than that... Let's see. This is a special meeting. There's probably not a lot of information section, is there? No.

It's a special agenda.

It's a special agenda. All right. With that, this meeting is adjourned.