City Council - Regular Meeting

I call this Altuna City Council meeting to order. Monday, March 9th at 6 p.m. Now have a moment of silent prayer. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Linda, would you take roll call, please? Councilman Batty, here. Councilman Butterb here. Councilwoman Clintich, here. Vice Mayor Ellis here. Councilman Ikis here. Councilman Kelly here. Mayor Pacificico here. Uh we had an executive session after our last meeting to discuss real estate personnel and potential litigation. We'll open up the floor for public comment now. If anybody would like to address council, please come to the podium, state your name and address for the record, and please keep your comments to three minutes. The floor is now open. [clears throat]

1515 25th Avenue Devin Sailor. The First Amendment is the foundation of our country. It establishes freedom of religion, freedom of public, to publish information without censorship, and as it relates to this meeting, the freedom to assemble peacefully, to descent against government, and to protest. Council, I am here today to object to the ordinance being introduced that relates to permitting requirements for events downtown in Altuna, in particular the police fees. At the council work session last month, it was discussed that council would impose new fees. The most alarming to me was the charging of $50 an hour for each individual officer that is deemed necessary for an event. I'm being told that this ordinance is being put forth in a means of the means of being fiscally responsible. And I get it, it costs money to protect the public. 362 days out of the year, we find the money to protect our citizens, but not the three days where there may be protests. I understand fiscal responsibility, but you can't violate the rights of your constituents to balance the budget. Public safety is the obligation of the city, and you can't burden people's rights because you don't feel like meeting that obligation. And to be clear, uh Derek, you know, this isn't an anti- police. You know, you guys do a great job. We're thankful for your service. You know, uh this is an issue of elected leadership. Um this ordinance is unconstitutional. It will cause irreparable harm to every citizen's first amendment rights. This is established by the US Supreme Court. For Scythe County, Georgia versus the nationalist movement. The Supreme Court ruled that the allowing of officials to charge permitting fees based on anticipated police costs or protection from counterprotest was unconstitutional. Fees based on potential backlash give rise to what is known as the heckler's veto and speech cannot be financially burdened based on how controversial it might be. In 2003 a su in the very federal judicial district we are

standing in. Three civil rights and humanitarian groups sued the city of Pittsburgh. They cited this very case and with similar circumstances received injunctive relief almost immediately. The city later settled and created new ordinances within a constitutional framework. council. That would be this is probably going to be the third ordinance in the past year facing potential litigation. And it begs the question, what is the process for reviewing the legality of any of these ordinances? It took me an hour to research this stuff. Is the solicitor looking at it or is it in spite of the knowing this is unconstitutional, you don't care? And maybe or maybe maybe this is just an honest mistake. Well, by the end of tonight's meeting, we will have that answer. I look to each one of you individual members of council and you have been informed. You have been told this this ordinance is facially unconstitutional. It chills speech and every counterargument that I have heard thus far has been heard and failed before a judge at the highest level. If you vote today to introduce this ordinance, you are without excuse. This cannot be a simple mistake or a misunderstanding. You will be acknowledging that you do not believe in the most foundational right afforded to us in the constitution. Someone who would forsake this liberty in service of the bottom line is not fit for the serve in elected office in America. And ignorance of the law is no defense. [applause]

Oh my god.

Uh hi, my name is Caleb Hogan, 2012 Fth Avenue. Um I am speaking in regards to the ordinance on urban planning. Um I happen to be lower middle class. A lot of my uh friends and family happen to be lower class. Um, the problem that I have is I've seen with some of my friends in Shippensburg is that by setting this ordinance and trying to have regulations to enforce and penalize it, we are actively taxing the homeless for not being homed without any uh home uh subsidation for housing, without any sort of uh shelters, any sort of benefits for them to help get them homes. All this is doing is cutting off another outlet they have for one of our five basic needs. I see no way that this can help us except for just make an already marginalized and uh downtrodden group even more invisible than they already are. Um I want to be as tactful as I can. However, after seeing what in Shippensburg, seeing vets out on the street being charged $100 a day because they have to rattle a can for food. It's nothing short of ghoulish. and I want to be very um objective with the way that I speak. However, I feel as though as the city council, you guys should worry about what make up Altuna and as the people regardless of their income, housing status, or what have you. These are people who need to be defended, who need to be protected, not to be taxed because they can't afford a house. We have a a weird system now where my friend Kyler, he has a mortgage that he pays. It's a quarter of what he spent whenever he was renting two years ago and already the rent has increased more. We don't have any protections, any fail safes. We don't have any way to cap uh renting fees. We don't have any way to help people if they are out. We we have two shelters and I mean one of them is already just barely functioning as it is. We have systems and organizations that have failed these people and I'd

rather we focus on solutions rather than just demonizing them all the further. Um, I have more to say, but it's going to be uncouthed, so I'll call it there. Thank you for your time. [applause]

Hi, my name is Sher. Um, I have had the privilege to live and work. Excuse me, I need your I'm so sorry. My name is Sher L. My address is PO Box 1373, Altuna. I'm homeless. I don't have a street address. Thank you.

Thank you. Sorry. Um, I I've lived and worked in Altuna for 30 years. Uh, my job's downtown. I saw the mayor today at my job and smiled. Um, I like my job. I like my community. I love my neighbors and not just the ones with street addresses. Um, last fall I lost my housing due to violence in my home. I found another place for my dog to live and I've been living out of my car and staying with friends and family to keep my job. I've had the same job for four and a half years. At my job, I have to frequently ask unhoused people to leave the property. Sometimes we call the non-emergency line to get the assistance of an officer to have those conversations. Under this new ordinance, it feels like I would be at risk of getting these people arrested. They don't come in because they're confused or they are trying to cause trouble. They don't have anywhere else to go. I um called Altuna Housing Authority to check my status of my application for a section 8 voucher and I was told that the program got defunded months ago and that they haven't issued any vouchers. Uh I don't see this in the news. I asked the worker there, "What do people do in my situation?" She said, "Be homeless. We have a large homeless population in Altuna. You would be surprised." And I'm not surprised. What I am surprised at is that we're not talking about it. And I'm surprised that our answer to it is to penalize people who are at rock bottom. Most people's worst nightmare is sleeping on the street. Um, I don't see how sleeping on the street can be the penalty. If our answer is a social worker, it's something, but a social worker is not housing for the hundreds of people who live and work in this community who don't have a place to live, including myself. I worked in nonprofit for 10 years. I know how to access community resources. I have access to good physical mental health care. I have a loving, supportive community and network of family and friends. A lot of people in the situation if if had happened, a lot of people don't have the support that I

have. What you do to the one of the least of my brothers and sisters, you do to me. I don't see how this is living our values as a community. Um, I have some friends and family I could stay with in Jefferson County and try and get a job in Dubo for a while, but I would rather stay in my home. I love my community. I love my neighbors and um this feels like a cruel a purposefully cruel thing to penalize people for being on the street. Um thank you for your time. [applause] [applause] My name is Autumn Temple. I live on North Fourth Avenue. At the January meeting, I presented case laws that clearly showed the litigation other areas have become involved in by passing ordinances that have spacing restrictions relevant to housing for recovery houses. These case laws haven't changed and the fact that your proposed ordinance regarding these houses continues to include spacing restrictions, it continues to be discriminatory in nature. Simply stated, any ordinance that specifically targets individuals in recovery or individuals who are considered a protected class of people is discrimination. It doesn't matter if the space limitation is 1500 ft or 300 ft. from attending your work meeting. It is apparent that the majority of the council members do not understand the difference between students and student housing requirements and the requirements that target protected classes of people. As mentioned in January, the Fair Housing Act addresses policies that discrimination against individuals based on specific characteristics. The city of Altuna receives money for fair housing. Yet, our city manager has not spoke to that department. I asked him and he told me he did not reach out to that staff person for input. Why is it that the city council praises the renovation and

addition of 30 additional apartments in downtown Altuna where there is already several hundred apartment units and you call this development. Yet, when homes for recovery or boarding homes are being requested, some in the very, very same neighborhood, you want to call it saturation. This double standard is exactly why the Fair Housing Act exists, to prevent unequal treatment. If the city has concerns about safety or property management of recovery houses or other institutionalized facilities, these needs should be regulated in the same manner as any other residential or commercial property, rental property. By creating special distance requirements specifically for recovery homes, you are sending a clear message that is not just about safety and people in recovery are not welcome and these people are going to be discriminated against. Before voting tonight, I ask you to vote not on whether this ordinance sounds reasonable, but to vote based on whether the ordinance is legal or does it continue to expose the city of Altuna to a discrimination challenge. I urge the council to reconsider this ordinance before the city spends taxpayer dollars defending a policy that singles out a protected class. The other topic that I have uh want to discuss is the urban camping ordinance. Your five-year plan, your 2005 to 2009 consolidated plan acknowledged there is a lack of housing opportunities for the homeless population. This is directly out of your plan. [applause] [applause]

Good evening, Mayor and Council. Um, I'm Bob Kutz, 1304 Walton Avenue, Altuna, Dutch Hill Boy, All My Life, and uh, here representing the council this evening, the Bedford Labor Council. Since 1990, we've conducted a Labor Day parade and with much cooperation from the city, which I'm proud to say has always been a good event. We've never had one incident in all that time. uh after having heard what was said about having to have a fee for police people at a function such as this or any of the other ones that we have. It reminds me of a time back when we first started out. There used to be an organization called the Blair County Auxiliary Police. And at that time they would approach us before the parade with a coordination of a member from the city police and we would dispatch those members of that organization to the various locations where we needed the streets blocked. I would recommend to you all to maybe consider looking into reviving the Blair County Auxiliary Police. We always gave them a stipend at the end of the day, but it certainly wouldn't be $50 an hour. And our parade basically lasts about an hour. But there are other events which some folks are here to talk about tonight that will take a lot more time and a lot more money. Once again, I thank you for your time and please give that one some thought. [applause] Hello, my name's Paul R. Silvog. I'm my uh address 150 Kings Highway, Altuna, Pennsylvania. I'm here also to say

something about the $50 for the police. 19 years ago we started uh I'm representing the Blair County Antique Auto Club and uh 19 years ago Mr. Ball you were sitting up there and we started the downtown cruise. Now you want $50 an hour to for us to play pay the policeman along with five times more for the permits and uh you you keep on saying you want stuff happening downtown. Well, me and my wife, we started this cruise. We worked hard to start this cruise. Now you you guys want blood money to keep it going. I don't know. I'll have to leave you know how we feel after the club meeting. But this $50 to me is ridiculous. Thank you. [applause]

My name is Carol Taylor. I live at 1057 Kettle in Altuna. I am president of Indivisible and I'm here to talk about Indivisible's position on this 553 ordinance is proposed. I kind of think tonight is a trifecta. However, I spoken on the recovery houses. I worry about homelessness and now I'm having to stand here in front of you all and defend freedom of speech because I don't believe this ordinance is about the budget. I don't believe it's about the police per se. I believe it is about the cost that's attached to freedom of speech that some people don't like. Okay. Our first amendment rights here in Altuna, our first amendment rights here in Holidaysburg as well. We went to uh city hall to get a permit for Heritage Plaza on March 28th. And I'm sure you all are aware that that's the date of the next no kings. We have had many, many rallies. We've had silent vigils. We've had protests, none of which have been violent. They've been orderly. And we do in conjunction with community leaders and the police. And they've all been safe and moments of joy and expression for people. I know that by my right to know request that the discussion was hey can we possibly distinguish between a protest a veterans parade or a holiday parade. Obviously that's unconstitutional but it lends itself towards the purpose of what is happening. It is within you the way this is worded. It is within the discretion of one

individual to assess what events need $50 overtime. How many police need to be hired? I dare say that a king's protest, a no kings protest, is going to get hit with something that might amount to a couple thousand dollar plus parking fees, plus the standard fees for Heritage Plaza, which should be open to all. This makes it not affordable. It it silences individuals from expression, political expression. And I think other kinds of of groups should be concerned. LGBTQ community for example, maybe labor, whatever the issue is that in someone's position thinks that they should assign more police. And it is that vagueness that is a problem under the law under the constitutional law. I practiced law for 20some years before I retired. I know something about it, including civil rights cases. So when you start putting in long notice periods, when you make it flexible so that it's impossible, it's a vague, you don't know how much you're going to owe. When you put in a permit, then it becomes unconstitutional. This is not legal. It will be challenged and you will lose and it will cost you more than the cost of any enforcement. Thank you. [applause] Good evening. My name is Bridget Jackson. I live at 313 Grant Avenue in Altuna. Uh so tonight you guys are going to be introducing two ordinances that raise some questions. Should the right to speak or simply exist in public depend

on whether someone can afford it and sends a troubling message about whose voices and whose lives matter in our city. First, the proposal to charge $50 per hour per officer for downtown events, specifically citing protests, effectively puts a price tag on free speech. The right to assemble and speak out against government decisions is not a luxury service that residents should have to purchase from the city. It is a constitutional right. When you attach a fee to a protest, you're not managing events. You're discouraging disscent. Secondly, the proposed urban camping ordinance does something even more troubling. It criminalizes poverty. In a city where the medium income is around $50,000 and more than 16% of residents live in poverty, the solution to homelessness cannot be fines, citations, or pushing people out of sight. For comparison, the median income in Pennsylvania is $78,000 and the national medium income is 83,000. When almost 20% of your population lives below the poverty guidelines, that is a problem that requires actual solutions. Policies like this don't solve problems. They simply punish the people with the least power while making civic participation harder for everyone else. Our public spaces should not only belong to those who can afford them. And our laws should not only treat po and our laws should not treat poverty as a crime. I would be willing to bet that a majority of people in this room right now are one accident, one diagnosis, or one missed paycheck away from financial ruin and homelessness. I am urging you to reject these ordinances and instead focus on policies that protect free expression and address poverty with real solutions, not penalties.

If you pass these, shame on each and every single one of you. I don't ever want to hear that you claim to be a great Christian. No matter how many videos you post on Facebook of you reading the Bible, okay?

The measure of a city isn't how well it controls disscent or hides poverty or its unhoused population. It is whether it protects the rights and the dignity of the people with the least power, wealth, and privilege. I hope Altuna chooses to be that kind of city, but I'm not going to hold my breath. [applause] [applause] My name is Nancy Spil Vogle and I live at 150 Kings Highway, Altuna, Pennsylvania. And I'm in here I'm here speaking because for um the first time it would have been our 20th year to have the Altuna downtown cruise with the Blair County Antique Auto Club and as we always advertise and the city of Altuna behind us and we have had successful um happenings every time draw a lot of people back when there was nothing going on downtown and that was the idea to bring it here and it brought the famil familiarity of what went on in Altuna with uh it being a a nice community and um everybody um gathered there. So this is why I'm here. We started it and we we um did it for all the um donations and we always give to somebody some kind of a local charity function and that is this this new um ordinance number four um has so many violations will cause this to be a disaster and not a good thing for Altuna for the businesses businesses that came down there that will benefit from that day when we get hundreds close to we've had close to a

thousand. So, we can't see that this is not only uh it's not constitutional, but it is kind of what I would say something to keep people away from Altuna. Is that what we want? Um, so and and the these these charities, local charities we've given to the local vets, the DAV and and um uh to uh Miracle League and all different organizations and we raise it through going out and I have the paper. We ask, my husband is the director at the Blair County Antique Auto Club who spoke and um you know what we would ask for donations for door prizes to raise money to give to these charities. Uh that's how we did it. It was we started it for um charity reasons and that's a good thing. And it brings family uh to downtown. It brings laughter. It it bring it brought and this would have been the 20th year except the co stopped us for having it one year. So this will be the 19th year and this gives such um what everybody is uh leaning towards illegal reasoning to to um not be able to carry on such functions. Thank you. [applause] Good evening, council members and interested spectators. My name is Dwight Kennedy. I live on 2332 Reservoir Road in Holidaysburg. I've lived in Blair County now for 50 years. I'm also one of the founding members of our local Indivisible Blair County organization. Indivisible has hundreds of chapters and

thousands of members throughout the United States. But today I'm representing the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Blair County, a proud co-sponsor of local No Kings Rallies for which we're making our third application after several successful former local events. For information's sake, the Unitarian Fellowship counts among its many worldwide adherence numerous notable persons, including several of our founding fathers such as Thomas Jefferson and John Adams. Among our tenants is a robust promotion of democracy and social justice. In keeping with these principles, the National Unitarian Universalist Association has entered into a formal agreement with the organizers of the No Kings Rallies, which have hundreds of sites all over 50 states and also foreign countries such as France, Spain, Germany, Mexico, and more. The last international rally had over 70 million peaceful participants in the United States alone, the largest single day rally in our history, and we're expecting more participants at our next event. As in the past, we are making application with the city for our next local event on March 28th. But now we're encountering new unexpected arbitrary impediments which we believe to be unlawful and unconstitutional as explained by case law from several of the previous speakers. We feel confident that if these new terms were opposed and litigated, we would prevail, but we'd rather prefer this previous successful arrangements. We feel an adverse legal decision against the city would reflect poorly on the city as well as the city

possibly incurring litigation costs and damages. With all this in mind, we the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Blair County would like to respectfully request that the city reconsider the new proposed application terms and return to the terms of the successful past events. Thank you for your consideration. [applause]

My name is Ki Godfrey and I live at 313 Scarlet Lane. I'm the daughter of an Army veteran, a brave man who served in Vietnam and the recipient, the Bronze Star. He's here with me tonight. He was a combat medic in Vietnam. He proudly raised his right hand and pledged and dedicated his life to protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States and the safety of his country. I'm the great granddaughter of an immigrant who toiled in the coal mines of Somerset and Cambria counties to help further the progress of his adopted nation. Both men sacrificed their ability to live to a ripe old age in order to further this country's progress. I am a proud American. As is the case with many of my fellow members of this community, I am heartsick to see the corruption and lawlessness that is being forced on my beloved nation. I believe in loving my neighbor regardless of their citizenship status, race, or sexual orientation. I believe that we can do better to offer a great way of life to all who live here. I believe that access to clean air and water is an essential right to all human beings all over the world and that good stewardship of the planet is just common sense. With the recent outbreak of war, citizens being gunned down in our streets, and billionaires getting rich off the backs of hardworking Americans while pulling the safety net out from under those who need it just so that the top 1% don't have to contribute. Many of us are disappointed. We are frustrated and scared and looking for an opportunity to be heard while standing shouldertosh shoulder with like-minded individuals to express our outrage and find common ground with our neighbors. And what better place to make that happen but in the downtown plaza intended to celebrate the rich heritage of Altuna. The purpose of Heritage Plaza is to

offer public space which serves as a community hub with a goal of revitalizing the downtown area by attracting consumer dollars to the businesses located around the plaza. With the general default position of most progressive thinking individuals being the desire to patronize sole proprietor establishments and keeping our money in the local economy, this is a great opportunity to help support our downtown economy as bringing large numbers of people to this part of town will only help serve to support our local merchants. All of that aside, the legal implications of what is essentially attacks on free speech could be far-reaching and potentially embarrassing for the city of Altuna and the members of this body who insist on passing an ordinance which will place a financial burden on groups interested in exercising their first amendment right to free speech. There is plenty plenty of case law that prohibits such ownorous fees and I really wonder how much serious consideration has been given to this proposed action. [applause]

My name is Steve G. 104 Pleasant Valley Boulevard. I didn't intend to speak. I'm so sick of hearing the things that Jesus told us. Get out of your chairs and show us the things he did. [screaming] [applause] Go down and talk to the people who are unhoused and ask them why they're there. When I hear about things being done to prevent halfway houses for people that are in recovery, if you ever met somebody who is a in long-term recovery, they are among the most loyal friends and hardest working people you ever meet because they know what it's like to have lost everything. Parents send their children out and their kids tell them that they're going to a college party and their kids come home, but it's not their kids anymore. Give that child the chance to come home and be what they used to be. [applause] For the people that are unhoused, ask how many of them are struggling with addiction and how many of them have just been priced out of housing in Altuna.

[applause]

Ask yourselves if the problem that you have is funding the police officers to attend any of these assemblies which we as taxpayers have paid for and ask if the problem is funding them or if the problem is what the assembly is about. [applause] [applause] This woman who spoke about her grandfather or father, every serviceman who has gone over and has died has fought for our constitution. The whole thing, not the parts of it that you like. [cheering] [applause]

Hi, Maryanne Seni. uh 3921 Maple Avenue and I was here in February, spoke about the same thing. I'm not going to tell you it's discrimination because you already know that it is. But to say to people that they can't come to our area and have a safe place to recover is just heartbreaking. I watched my own child go to some real hail holes. And I don't want that here either. I want you to be harder on the places that shouldn't be open. and help the ones that need to be open because this isn't going away and and you're going to talk about the unhoused that comes from this as well. So, you're just going to create that problem even bigger because you're not willing to step up as a community and help people that need it the most. As this gentleman said, I I I would love to have a house next to me with people that are in recovery and trying to do get their life back than I would many other people. So, I'm asking you again, like I said in February, hearts, souls, kindness, find a way to get the bad actors out and help us have more. What are you going to tell Pastor Gray who has 12step programs? And what is a 12step? That's about the community. That's about them being together and helping each other, supporting each other. So, you're going to tell him because his houses are too close that he can no longer do this. Not that I think 12step's the only way, but that's that's working for him and for many people that live in his houses. So, what are you going to do? Throw them all out? As I said in February, our children leave here and go somewhere else because they know they can't survive here. So, what kind of a community are we going to be? Thank you. [applause]

Good evening, council. Um, Steve Lawson, 2800 Walnut Avenue. Altuna, Pennsylvania. Um, I would just like to uh piggyback on the young lady that was speaking earlier. Current public forum doctrine implies that the public is owed the right to speak and the government must offer a reasonable venue to engage in its desired speech without prohibition by the government. Questions of our first amendment rights must be resolved with the goal of increasing varying viewpoints which listeners are exposed rather than to silence viewpoints you disagree with. In Termolini versus the city of Chicago, Justice Douglas explained that a function of free of free speech under our system of government is to invite dispute and that the vitality of a civil and political institution in our society depends on free discussion. Free in force county versus nationalist movement. The Supreme Court held that the listener's reaction to a speech is not a contentneutral basis for regulation. The court postulated that speech cannot be financially burdened any more than it can be punished or banned simply because it might offend a hostile mob. The US Supreme Court has generally forbidden charging fees for police protection of protesters, ensuring that the cost of e of exercising constitutional rights is not prohibited. In Dunlop versus the

city of Chicago, the city the district court determined an injunction required that the city to provide police in such a number as is the professional judgment are required to afford adequate protection to plaintiffs. In case after case, the court of appeals of the Supreme Court of the United States has emphasized that the role of the government is to promote rather than silence speech in spite of potential for hostility.

Am I [applause] Steve [cheering] going You can go. Okay. I thought Okay. Oh, no. I thought you were timing me out saying your time's up. You're Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, I will finish up here. Give him 40 seconds.

Okay. Legally speaking, police must act as a neutral facilitator in protecting protesters rights to be seen and heard even if the protest is in your opinion controversial. Additionally, city government cannot restrict speech based on content or prevent a protest before it happens without specific legal justifications and by imposing exorbitant fees under the guise of police protection. This is a shameful attempt at silencing one particular group from speaking out against the constant attacks of Americans and the principles upon which our nation was founded. [applause] [applause] Good evening. Um, thank you for allowing us to come and speak. Uh, my name is Michael Allison. I live at 53224th Avenue uh in Altuna, Pennsylvania. As we used to say back in the 70s, I'm an Altoid born born and bred. And I suspect I'm older than a lot of the people I'm looking at right now. Um, my purpose here is not to give my resume, that that's going to be part of this, but I would like you to look at this contrast. You have very young people and a lot of really old people out here in the audience talking to you. Both often marginalized people in our society. They're not the people with the power. So, couple memories. I remember back in the 70s when a mayor oral candidate for for the mayor of Pennsylvania, went to a

fundraiser, stood in front of a group of businessmen, pointed to that hill, and said, "Don't worry, I'll keep those people in their place." He then proceeded to ask a gentleman who was in the business community with an adopted black son for money. That's pretty heavy-handed, and we're used to it. I'm 75. I've seen this stuff before. I had a lovely conversation with our mayor a couple years ago. Maybe you remember, Matt, um when the biggest problems in Altuna were the definition between a pizza sign and a mural with pizza in it. And also what kind of religious stickers are appropriate to put on our um city vehicles. Now, I have opinions because I'm an artist and I'm a graphic designer. If you look at your city vehicles, you'll see the design for the city skylight landscape that I designed for you guys way, way back. After this speech, it might disappear, but that's okay. I, you know, I'm an artist. I'm used to this stuff, but I've also restored the interior of Baker Mansion. I was for 10 years the curator of the Southern Alaganis Museum of Art, which brought it here. I'm the founder of Art in Common and when the Altuna campus kicked the Arts Festival, which we don't have anymore, out of there, I worked with the BCAF and Art in Common to hold it downtown. We weren't charged anything. I'm a former member of the uh board of the interfaith committee here that used to run summer seminars every every uh summer. And also, by the way, I was on the board of Teaching Diversity, which was an anti-bullying

and equity group, you know, DEI, that stuff, uh, here in Blair County, which was very successful. And we were about being evenhanded. So, let's be even-handed. this fee that you want to charge. I can understand that the cops need to be paid, but the timing is suspect. Yeah. Where It just came up all of a sudden, didn't it? Michael. So, um, work out a compromise. That's what Matt and I did. Your three minute Your time is up, sir.

Oh, is it? Okay. Well, said enough. Uh but I'll just go over a little bit a quote from Mahatma Gandhi when he went to the British and told them they were going to have a protest and the British said, "We'll arrest you and shoot you in the street." Gandhi's ref uh reply was there's 500 million of us. How many bullets do you have? [applause]

[applause]

Sorry, I'm short. Hi everybody. My name is Jannina Gorman. Um, I uh I live right up the road at 1481 Washington Avenue. I am an organizer with groups like Po People First Pennsylvania and the Poor People's Campaign of Pennsylvania. They are nonprofit nonpartisan organizations. As part of those organizations, we have organized multiple gatherings in the city of Altuna. Uh gatherings where we provide access to sign up for food stamps or to give out food and free resources, um kits for the homeless, uh Medicaid resources and signups, diapers, backpacks, handing out sanitizers, homeless care packages, etc. Uh we also provide community members opportunities for fellowship and to speak out about current events and how they are personally impacted by those events. For one such event about a week before the event was supposed to take place after we had secured the permits. We were told that we needed to purchase a separate $1 million insurance policy or cancel the event. Again, we are a nonprofit organization, a grassroots organization. We don't accept outside money from anyone. And we had to come up with the funds for a $1 million policy to have an event at Heritage Plaza here in Altuna. There was another event held a week before that that could be termed as on the opposite end of the spectrum that didn't have to purchase such a policy. I'm bringing that up now because it definitely feels like there are certain voices that want to be uplifted in the city and certain voices that you are trying to silence. I also want to speak out about the homelessness ordinance.

I myself was homeless for two years. [snorts] It may surprise this council to know the entire time I was homeless, I was working full-time at at least one job. Most of the time I had two or three. The reason I was homeless in the city of Altuna was because my landlord refused to accept rent long enough to evict me. And the city of Altuna says that a 30-day eviction process is legalized. So, I was homeless. I lived in a camper for two years. Now, I stand before you. I work with veterans. I work with uh Triricare Insurance for our veterans. I have my own home. I purchased that home on Washington Avenue. But if my community had criminalized me for being in that situation, I wouldn't be standing here today. When we criminalize those who have nothing left, we are punishing those who have already been punished most of the time unfairly. If I could tell you how many veterans I talk to every day, veterans that served our country that are now homeless, I want this council to think about who they would be criminalizing and who would they be putting out with no resources. I will leave you with this. How we treat others really determines who comes to this community, who celebrates with this community, who comes to our aid when we need it, and what functions we are allowed to have. Thank you. [applause]

My name is Norman Benford. I live at 2715 Furnus Avenue in Altuna. I attended two protests since I have lived in Altuna. And I will now count for you the number of violent incidences that I saw at those protests. [applause] None. Zero. I'm not here to say that the police are the bad guys because the police treated the protesters and the counterprotesters on the other side of the street professionally and with dignity and respect. So I thank them for that. [applause] Protesting does not make us the bad guys. Counterprotesting does not make them the bad guys. I may not agree with what they're saying, but I will always agree with their right to say it. And the police are not the bad guys. What you are trying to do is extract money from the community to pay your bills. Shame on you.

Shame on you. [applause] Anybody who votes to support this will self-identify as one of the bad guys. Do better. [applause] And the fact that this is not the most offensive thing that council is considering today. Disgraceful. Absolutely disgraceful that you're sitting up there behind of the Diaz trying to criminalize human beings who live in your city. Disgusting. Do better. [applause]

Good evening. Amy Hasser, 239 Castle Farms Road. Aluna, may I ask some direct questions to individuals?

Okay. Has anyone come up with like what are the funds going to be when the ACLU um drops a lawsuit on this? Have we considered that? [applause] Can anyone of you please answer that right now? Has that been considered what it's really going to cost this town in terms of reputation and money? And if you haven't, then we need better people running the town. [applause] [applause] I'll start you guys out with an easy one. I'd like to know if there are any plans.

What's your name, sir?

Oh, Tim Baker, 306 South 8 Street. I'd like to know if there are any plans to address the crumbling building on Norfolk Southern's property across the street from Chestnut Avenue. Uh, you guys had no problem dragging my grandmother into court every two months as she was dying from kidney disease because she couldn't afford to fix the roof on her house. And that building is more unsightly than any unhoused person I've ever seen in this city. [applause] What have you done to prevent homelessness? The railroad is bleeding jobs. The hospital was hiring travel nurses. All of the new jobs are in food service and retail. There are people working those jobs who weren't even alive the last time the minimum wage was raised in 2007. Uh, a home I rented in 2018 for $750 a month is currently listed for $1,200 a month. I can see from the pictures in the listing it's done nothing and deteriorate in those seven years. You guys have the power to institute rent control policies. I suggest you start there before criminalizing homelessness. [applause] And obviously it goes without saying the idea to hire cop or force protesters to pay for cops is patently unconstitutional and will cost you guys so much legal fees. You have to lay off your new uh fantasy city manager over here. Uh with all due respect, Chris, our unhoused neighbors are more welcome here than you'll ever be. Go back to Texas.

[applause] Oh my god.

Okay, we done. There. Any more public comment? No.

Okay, seeing none, we will close the floor and move into the resolutions. Item A is approving the minutes of the Altuna City Council meeting held Monday, February 9th, 2026. Item B is amending and restating the fee resolution 4-26 adopted in January of 2026 to include the removal of the Eluna Parking Authority rates for the monthly lot fees, addition of public events fees, law enforcement traffic fees, cleanup and damage repair fees, Eltuna Parking Authority lot fees for use of downtown lots and parking spaces for public gathering and events, and removal of the Heritage Plaza rental fee and nonprofit Waiver item C is awarding the eighth street sidewalk and ADA ramps project CDBG funded base bid items to Big Rock Paving in the amount of $638,265 payable from the CDBG funds. Further authorizing the city manager to execute all documents and the city clerk to attest to same. Item D is awarding the Eth Street sidewalk and ADA ramps project additional work items to Big Rot Paving of Mount Wolf, Pennsylvania in the amount of $16,479 payable from capital funds, further authorizing the city manager to execute all documents and the city clerk to attest to same. Item E is approving the disposition application by the Altuna Housing Authority to the special application center through the Department of HUD for the disposal sale of one scattered site public housing property owned by the Altuna Housing Authority and addressed as 1477 Washington Avenue. Item F is approving election polling place agreements between the county on beha and the city on behalf of the board of elections and the city for p polling places located at this this city of Altuna training facility the fire stations one two and three and further authorizing the city manager to execute the documents in the

city clerk to test same and IMG is approving a repository bid submitted by Jay's modern remodeling of Waterbury Connecticut in the amount of $4,160 $60 for property located at 3082nd Avenue and a repository bid in the amount of $2,250 for property located at 7094th Avenue and further authorizing the city manager to execute the taxing district form. Are there any deletions or anything that needs to be pulled for a separate vote?

Uh item G, please. And what's the uh can somebody explain uh resolution B and ordinance 4? Explain the difference between the two there.

B is the B resolution. B is the fee resolution. Yeah, we took the fees out of the resol. We took the fees out of the ordinance in order to be able to annually evaluate the fees. And the ordinance was the p Are you talking about the public gathering? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was um that is Let's see. You said number four. Mhm.

Are you asking if they're separate? Yeah. I'm cur like would can we amend B before ordinance four? You see you know what I mean? Like what are we amending because the ordinance didn't get introduced yet? Yes. So is it is it inappropriate to have that the cart before the horse basically? Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't matter. It's a fe it's a resolution. You want to answer it, Mike?

Well, one is a fee or one is a resolution, the other is uh the resolution that you adopted uh is also taking care. It's a followup to what you did when you turned structures and parking authority enforcement to the parking. Should the resolution wait to be amended until the ordinance is introduced and passed though? So, you know, you see what I'm saying? So, should we table the resolution until April?

And I think we should. I mean, I would say I would say they're two totally separate uh animals. You can do whatever you wish, but I know that the fees what Linda is saying, what Linda is saying is that they are both or that that is done annually. Okay. Excuse me. We're having trouble hearing back here.

The mayor asked the difference between resolution B and the one ordinance on the list about the parking fees. [snorts] And so he was getting clarification on the difference between those two items. Appreciate. [clears throat] So we want to table this then. I would table B till we till we see what happens with the ordinance. Okay, I'm good with that. We'll table B proceed with Do we need a if we counselor? If we table B, do we need a motion or can it just be consensus? Well, you just don't approve it or

Steve, you either you either don't approve it or you uh vote it down. I'll make a motion to uh pull B and to and make a motion to table it. I'll second that. Oh, yeah. We already pulled parking. We already pulled G. Did you? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we already pulled G. Correct. Poor vote. Yes. Portland is juggling letters.

No, I'm good. Just need to get back where I was. Where am I? Okay. All right. So, we are going to take we are going to There's a motion by Councilman Butterbot to table item B and a second by the mayor and I'll call for a vote for tableabling that. Councilman Batty. Yes. Councilman Butterb. Yes. Councilwoman Clintich. Yes. Coun Vice Mayor Ellis. Yes. Councilman Ellis. Councilman Nicks. Yes. Sorry. Councilman Kelly. Yes. Mayor Pacificico. Yes.

And that vote passes seven to zero. And then we also have um a vote for um we have we're going to pull at the request of Councilman Butterball item G for a separate vote. and that is approving a repository bid submitted by Jay's Modern Remodeling of Waterbury, Connecticut in the amount of $4,160 for a property at 3082nd Avenue and $2,250 for a property at 7094th Avenue and authorizing the city manager to execute the taxing district form. I'll call the role for a vote. Councilman Batty, yes.

Councilman Butterb, yes. Councilman Clint, are you voting? Are you out of time? Are we Sorry, Linda. No, we're voting on G. You're We're voting on G. You're voting on G. Yeah. Approving. Normally, we vote through all the resolutions, right? But I called the I called the the vote we were pulling first. So So you want to do G first? Yeah, that's what I call I just read it. So we're doing G. Linda, let's start over then. All right.

You need to unwind that. Councilman Butterb um requested that item G be pulled for a separate vote approving a repository bid submitted by Jay's Modern Remodeling of Connecticut in the amount of $4,160 for property located at 3082nd Avenue and 2250 for property located at 7094th Avenue and authorizing the city manager to execute the taxing district form. Councilman Batty, no. Councilman Butterb, no. Councilwoman Clinich, no. Vice Mayor Ellis, no. Councilman Kis, no. Councilman Kelly, no. Mayor Pacificico, no.

The vote does not pass. Now I will call for the consent vote on all items excluding item B and item G. Councilman Batty, yes. Councilman Butterb, yes. Councilwoman Clinich, yes. Vice Mayor Ellis, yes. Councilman Ikis, yes. Councilman Kelly, yes. Mayor Pacificico, yes.

And the consent vote passes seven to zero. We have four ordinances, excuse me, five ordinances on the on the agenda, all for introduction that would bring these ordinances, if introduced that would bring them back in to the um meeting in April for adoption. The first ordinance is an ordinance of the city of Altuna Blair County amending the code by adding a new chapter 509 entitled urban camping providing definitions, regulations, enforcement, penalties for violations, repealing all other ordinances or parts of laws and conflict therewith, severability provisions, and an effective date. Is there a council member willing to introduce this ordinance? So moved.

This ordinance was introduced by council by Vice Mayor Ellis. The second ordinance is an ordinance of the city of Altuna amending the code to amend chapter 105 police civil service commission article one rules and regulations section 10522 B physical agility testing updating the physical agility testing repeal of all other ordinances or parts of laws in conflict therewith severability of provisions and an effective date. Is there a council member willing to introduce this ordinance?

So be it. This ordinance was introduced by councilwoman Clintich. The third ordinance is an ordinance of the city of Altuna amending the code specifically chapter 571 entitled halfway/reovery rooming and boarding and institutionalized facility licensing program. Form of application item A changing language by striking the word or and adding the word and in item A. rules and regulations. Number two, sec changing the distance requirement from 1500 feet to 300 ft. Repealing of all other ordinances, parts of laws in conflict therewith, severability of provisions, and an effective date. Is there a council member willing to introduce this ordinance?

So moved. This ordinance was introduced by Councilman Butterb. The third ordinance, excuse me, the fourth ordinance of the city of Altuna amending the code chapter 553 entitled public gatherings to change the title, add noise and alcohol permit wording, extend the submission deadline, remove deposit references, update insurance requirements, remove the waiver of fees, include city sponsored information, provide penalties for violation, provide severability of provisions, repealer, and provide an effective date. Is there a council member willing to introduce this ordinance? So be it.

This ordinance was introduced by councilwoman Clintich. The fifth ordinance for introduction is an ordinance amending the code to amend chapter 405 entitled lease and/or conveyance of city-owned land to authorize conveyance of city-owned land located at 320 East Chestnut Avenue to the redevelopment authority of Altuna for $1. Ref reaffirm the remainder of chapter 405. Repeal all other ordinances or parts thereof in conflict therewith, provide severability of provisions, and provide an effective date. Is there a council member willing to introduce this ordinance? I'll do that, Linda.

This ordinance was introduced by Councilman Batty. Okay. Uh, city manager updates. Chris, no updates. Thank you. Uh, council updates. Anybody have any? Councilman Kelly. Yeah. I think um a couple of things. I think we'd be remiss not to take a moment and uh acknowledge the shooting of Corporal Timothy O' Conor in Chester County, Pennsylvania State Police veteran in 15 years. I mean, that's a certainly a reminder of Could you speak up? Why are you back here?

Yeah, there's no We're not This isn't on part of the PA system. It goes into the recording. I'll try to project a little bit more if that's all right. I said I think we'd be remiss if we didn't take a moment and acknowledge the shooting uh the fatal shooting of Corporal Timothy O' Conor in Chester County, a 15-year veteran of the Pennsylvania State Police who was uh shot while performing what should have been a routine traffic stop uh last evening. uh and it certainly reminds all of us of the hazards that all of our first responders face and the the the very difficult jobs that they have. I'd also would like for all of us to keep former mayor Bill Sherf in our thoughts and prayers. Uh, Bill lost his wife Kathy and uh, I know that that's a just while she had been in ill and declining health, it's a tragic loss to the former mayor and I'd ask that all of us keep him and his family in our prayers. Um, one other thing and this is a little bit more of a happy note. Is Bob Kutz still in the room? Bob, you might get mad at me for doing this, but I found out that Bob, whom I think probably all of us know, is going to be recognized in April. Bob, is that right? At the statewide, you you probably really going to be mad at me for doing this, but you're going to be recognized at the statewide Pennsylvania uh AFL CIO convention with their lifetime achievement award. [applause] And I I think it's welld deserved. And I think um um while certainly we we always don't always agree, I I think all of us respect the work that Bob has done and continues to do and and well done. Thank you, Bob, for all that you do and for

our community. So, and I I do appreciate all of you coming out tonight and expressing your opinion. Um it's not always an easy thing to do and I I I thank you for expressing and many of you your very heartfelt feelings on it. Um and I do believe that and I had mentioned this at the work session. Um, and and maybe someone, you know, thought it was a joke, but I said, you know, have we no place like Hyde Park where people can go to express their opinions? And I I do think that's important, and I I hope that we can find u some kind of a compromise or working solution that we're still able to entertain that expression of of free speech. But I also do believe that there's certain events that that may require additional police protection and and cost. And I I think that that's important that we look at that. But I I do think that there should be the ability to to gather and express opinions on issues of importance to the community. And I thank you all for coming tonight to express that opinion. Then that's all I have.

Uh Councilman Nicas. Thank you, Mayor. I have nothing this evening. Thank you. Councilman Butterwall.

Yeah. I just like to uh thank everybody for coming out and voicing their opinion. That's very important. Uh whether we agree or disagree, it is important for everybody's voice to be heard. Uh uh one of the easy things on the list, I wrote just a little list down here. Somebody mentioned Norfolk Southern. We've been trying for a long time to get them to clean up uh things around the railroad tracks, buildings, and various pertinances there. Uh railroad is federal land under federal law. they're almost virtually untouchable. And so I completely agree that uh we need to do uh the best we can in communicating with them and getting them to clean up their stuff. Um stuff I've mentioned in the past really the issue in a lot of things is about housing and making sure housing is safe here. And there are various categories of housing we have in the city whether it's market rate housing uh market rate rental facilities or subsidized housing uh section 8 housing where there are rules that have to be met. But there is also many of our issues come when you have housing where the rules aren't being applied. I I refer to it as like subsection 8 or subpar housing and having worked with addicts and what we're missing in this people are purposely bringing addicts here sometimes to mistreat them and I don't believe it's benevolence when [snorts] you open your neighborhood woman's shelter and when they don't have

money you give them the opport opportunity to pay sex in lie of rent that is going on here in Altuna. I call it rape. I don't call that benevolence. Amen.

And so we do have to provide safe housing for everybody. Now, we may disagree on the tent city because we we cannot have people defecating on city streets and that people need to have a place. And so when people bring somebody in to help them, they need to take responsibility because we also have an issue where people bring them in even even if they're good-hearted, even if they mean well, but when the subsidy runs out, they kick them out onto the street, the benevolence goes away when the money goes away. And that's not fair to people that come here and have no family, no help. So, what we have been doing and and uh Councilman Ellis has been working very hard on this, especially working with the nonprofits. We've given over a million dollars to the homeless issue and to subsidy issues and addiction issues over the last few years. So, it's not like it's not being addressed. And I think a lot of that gets lost in the conversation of what is council doing. It wasn't that long ago we we put over $800,000 into a family uh shelter over on Bo Avenue to have that renovated and have that be a safe place for people to come that find themselves homeless. And so there are a number of agencies and a number of people working on this and there are people working very hard because sometimes people get lost in the shuffle. And so what we have to do is a better job of finding out which agency's talent fits the best for the particular person that needs the help. Some people

are very good at working with people that are uh having issues of addiction. Some people's talents are working with people of mental health. Some people's talents are just providing a home and and providing safe space for people. And so various agencies, some taxpayer funded, some privately funded, some uh faith-based funded, some people really know what they're doing. Some good-hearted people get into it and they learn a lot of lessons the hard way. This is not easy. This is not an easy problem, but I assure you there's a lot more work going on than people think. And so I just wanted to share that with y'all.

Thank you. We appreciate it. We are trying seriously what you're doing. Thank you, [applause] Councilman Ellis. Uh, nothing. Mayor,

uh, Councilman Batty, I would like to point out the fact that, you know, this council has really worked hard at creating housing for Altuna. If you've seen lately, we're talking about tiny houses, you know, to help people get into housing. you know, we've rehabilitated three ho three homes in the city that hadn't been done for a very long time. So, you know, we're opening up uh hopefully Cricut Null to provide housing. You know, we really are working at creating housing for people. And as Councilman Butterbos said, you know, the homeless shelter was funded by the city. It wouldn't be there if that funding wouldn't have been provided.

Thank you. I appreciate everybody coming out voicing their opinions. Um, and just know that behind the scenes there's a lot of things that go on that maybe you guys don't see. So, we're working to help the homeless. Um, and it it the homeless doesn't go unseen or pushed out.

Questions from the media.

Bill I'm sorry. Uh, public comments closed. Um, I know you guys, a few of you guys just commented on some of the stuff that was brought up on the homeless introduction and the ordinance introduction and the recovery house introduction and the charge of police. But anybody in on council care to say anything else about any one of those or all of them? [snorts] Bill, I I think it has to be made very clear that that I I have been the one that has been in the forefront of dealing with this homeless issue, but anything I bring back to this council and to the staff has gotten support. We work multiple days a week with multiple uh social service agencies to deal with this problem. Uh it is very as everyone in the room knows it's a very complex problem and uh we have traveled to other communities. I've talked to people from other communities and county government, local government, and we're trying to find uh ideas and what works in one community may not necessarily work in the other communities, but uh we're out there trying to find solutions to these things. And uh one of the suggestions uh that we were given was working closely with social service agencies and our police. We do not want to criminalize this by any stretch of the imagination.

But we need to have resources from these social service agencies to work closely with our police, our fire departments, our codes departments to try to get people that are homeless through the process to a better place, whether it be the rehabilitation, whether it be transitional housing, and then into more permanent housing. And that effort is going on uh every day in some level here in our community working between council staff and uh uh members of of social service agencies and and the county agencies. Okay. Uh I I do I I think it would be a miss not to point out the leadership that Chief Free and his command staff has put into this, the countless hours that they have put into this over the last three years. And it sort of transitions also into this boarding rooming and boarding ordinance. You know, the first meeting on homelessness that Councilman Nicholas and I attended, they gave us the folks in that room gave us three examples of properties where multiple people were living in those properties in deplorable conditions. Okay. within three weeks working this council, the mayor and council and staff working with public uh social service agencies were able to to get the hospital to donate over $15,000 to start moving people out of condemned structures in the city. And over the past three years, we're up to about 30 people who've re relocated out of condemned structures. And within three weeks of that first meeting, we moved eight people out of a ratinfested uh ro completely ro mats,

bugs, bed bugs, roaches, people living on mats on the floor. We were able to get those people moved out of there into into better a better situation working with social service agencies. There were three on that first day, that first meeting, we were given three locations. That was one. The second one was a flop house on Third Avenue that the fire department had to end up responding to and try to rescue people out of. Okay. And the third one was a house on Fifth Avenue that ultimately was run by a guy who we suspended his rental inspection license for five years. Okay. The first property that I referred to, that person owned other properties that were covered under rental inspection and his was revoked for five years. Okay. But what I what I learned in this, and this has been a three-year process for me, is that these rooming houses and boarding houses were not covered under our rental inspection program. All right? And I'm someone that doesn't like regulating people, but we needed to regulate this because we had people with bad behavior that were putting our citizens in a bad place. Okay? Since that time, about a year ago, we had a house on East 4th Avenue that burned on a Saturday night. All right. When our firefighters got there, there was a lady holding a child out a third floor window. All right. Unfortunately, a lady on the second floor died. This was another rooming house that was unlicensed, unregistered, and not inspected. And we had four firefighters injured that night. Okay. So, this is a very there's a lot of passion on council that we need to keep people safe and the thought that that we don't we're not looking out to keep people safe is outrageous. Okay. Uh, so they are the things that that build up to this point

and I could go on for a long time and I'm not going to. If anybody wants to take me aside and ask me other questions, I'm ready to answer them. But that's that's where I'm coming from in this thing. That's admirable. Thank you for stepping up. I want to just reiterate that I felt that Councilman Ellis articulated that really well. point of clarification um because we do get questions on why can't we do more things as far as uh some of these landlords that are bad actors and it wasn't until recently correct me if I'm wrong mayor that we had the ability to suspend or revoke rental licenses for for these bad actors right so

a lot of these reforms and uh pieces of legislation have to come through Harrisburg that once we have the tools to be able to do these things um and Councilman Ellis has definitely been the leader the leader on this and he's done really well at bridging the gap with social services, police and fire to provide additional services, too. We're doing our very best to to act on them. And we're just trying we have to protect the most vulnerable and sometimes the most vulnerable and the most needy are the most exploited and the most abused and the most mistreated. And so we have to keep that in mind.

If somebody makes money off of them. Absolutely. That's the thing that's ging. Yeah. And sex trafficking is happening right now in Altuna.

Bill. Bill. That that that's the other thing. The the group home that or the the uh halfway house, halfway house, the rooming house that we took the eight people out of. This guy was taking their social security checks. This is how it came out. This guy's taking their social security checks. They had no money to pay for food. So they were going around to the different food sources, the churches and things like that, and they were going to the Hope dropin center under the H Street Bridge looking for food so they could eat. Okay? And that's the kind of thing that we're going to eradicate. We're not going to have that here. All right? And I can't emphasize the fact that this council and the staff have got gone be well above and beyond trying to eradicate this kind of behavior. And and I'd also like to add, you know, when when we came to council, you know, council works well with the thought that Altuna is a community. In the past, whenever we had comprehensive plans, they went on a shelf and we didn't they didn't get any action sometimes because of city management, that type of thing. with this with Chris as our new city manager with the all together Altuna plan we've put resources into place to work on all these different problems and Altuna is not a microcosm this is nationwide you know Altuna has problems Philadelphia has problems Pittsburgh has problems but we work every day to create good safe housing you know if you have a house that is uninhabitable it doesn't have heat, it doesn't have water, and somebody's renting it or living in it. That's not a safe environment. And you

know, we really do try to get all the social service people involved to try to help and get people placed, but government isn't the cure always. You know, churches have stepped up. You know, we've got people that would donate materials to fix homes up. um you know, a lot of good volunteers in the community. You know, uh our um our town operation

operation our town has donated funds to get people housed and to fix up housing. You know, local businesses have given us supplies and faith-based organizations have worked to help elderly people who need a home repair. So, you know, it's unfair to base this as we're not doing anything. We're doing what we can with the money we have and I think people need to understand that.

Um the you talked several people talked about the homelessness issue and the recovery house issue. Um, what about the the complaints from the people here today about the the charges that are going to be put on um public events for police services and the and what they say are the legal risks for that. Would anybody care to say anything about that? Bill, I can address uh the legal framework and I would leave it to uh city staff to address uh the reasoning on the amount of the fees. [snorts] Um I can say this, if the purpose of this fee structure was to stifle first amendment speech, uh then it would be illegal. Period. Um secondly, if the purpose uh or if the ordinance was uh administered capricciously or unevenly favoring one versus another. That would be illegal. The legal standard is a city can impose fees as long as they are actual costbased. They can impose a fee structure as long as it is contentneutral. Meaning the same rules apply uh for a no king rally as opposed to a MAGA rally. There can't be any distinction or if you have a personal point of view or a religious preference. If there is uneven enforcement or uneven application

based on someone's religion, race, whatever the case may be, that's illegal. So, you have to have an actual costbased reason for the fees. There has to be content neutrality and reasonable rules as to how you're going to allow a public gathering. So, and in this case with this city council and with this city staff, uh this ordinance is not based or the resolution is not based on suppressing free speech. uh and it is applied uniformally and as long as there is a reasonable costbased uh criteria used for what they're going to charge then it's legally permissible.

Well, if you don't mind, I'll forward a question from Devin here. How do you how will you determine how many police are needed for to the mirror as Deon money. How much he get for that question? I'm the I'm his negotiator right here right now. He gets $12. Okay, that means I get a $120 for my commission. Thank you much. Look, I'll answer questions from the press, but you know, public comment, all that. That's that that's over. And I don't want to get in to any back and forth with anybody because I respect what everybody uh truly feels and believes. So, yeah. Okay. Anybody else want to say anything on that from council?

No. I mean, we all we're all passionate about this. We all care. I mean, no, there's going to be things we agree on and there's going to be things we don't. And we have been working those things out and I don't think enough can be enough credit could be given to Councilman Ellis. He has given boatloads of time and effort with the various agencies and with the various entities involved working on this very tirelessly and then letting us know okay here's what we need to make this better. I I mean the amount of work put into this and cooperation between various entities that believe different things and and look at things differently. It's working. We're We're working together and it's working. So, we just need to find ways to work together.

Bill, I'm not in favor of charging for events downtown. Do you want to elaborate on that, Matt? No. Not in favor of charging for events downtown.

OKAY. [applause] And and I respect that opinion, but we're charging for events downtown. whether we're charging for events downtown or not. Like either the taxpayers are flipping the whole bill or they're not. That that's really what it comes out to. Like somebody's paying every time like like we're being charged every time whether we whether we pass an ordinance or not. Somebody's paying. It's just a matter of who is taking the full burden and who's not. That's really what it comes down to. Okay. Um, regarding the uh, A Street project, are there going to be um, trees planted there?

Uh, the A Street. Nate can hand that one. At this point in time, Bill, there may be a few trees, but those rightways on seventh and eighth street with the trees that are currently there are part of why the problem exists. So, we got to plant responsible trees that aren't going to upheavee the sidewalk. Responsible trees. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because street trees are important. Even though some people on council would like to see a city bare of trees on all sidewalks, but they really are important and they do serve a purpose for uh keeping, you know, temperatures down in the city so it's not a concrete jungle.

As long as they don't bust up nice sidewalks, I'm good with them. Um that will be from 6th Avenue all the way up to the top of the hill. Is that Yeah. Okay. And what are the PL will that project be likely done this year? Okay. And what about the um Seventh Street? That'll be next year. That's in pre that's in subsequent funding requests. It's designed. We're just we need funding for it. You mean like probably next year? next year or the year after is what it's slated for. Again, we'll have to put the capital budget together for next year and the year after and see where it falls with other needs. [snorts]

Okay. And then could somebody explain to me what the the 320 320 Chestnut Avenue property that goes to the redevelopment authority what that is? It's the uh the ice building former naval reserve. Oh, besides Martins between Martins and Juniata Gap Road. So, what's going to h that's the whole property where what's going to happen with that with the RA? The RA will will take it and probably put it out for an RFP for development. We would help we would hope to sell it. Yeah. For the record, the ICE moved out ago. Yeah. They moved to Georgia like a year and a half, right?

Yeah. And that was the former Naval Reserve Center. Is that would that be something that would likely require whoever buys it to keep the building there or not necessarily? It it's going to be totally up to them. You know, if they buy it, they own it. Okay. The nice thing about the RA taking it is we can put it to the best use. So that's that's the purpose of putting it to the RA. You mean the R would have discretion about? Okay. Thank you. Okay, hold on. Sydney,

hi, I'm Sydney with WPSU. I just wanted to clarify some things that I was wondering about. Um, so I know a couple people asked about the timing of these ordinances. I know it's also pretty recent that um charging for downtown parking has been implemented. So, is that part of the reason for adding these fees for either the urban camping ordinance or for, you know, events downtown? Is it just, you know, does the city need more money? Does that play into the timing? I'm just curious about that.

It it my opinion is just before the new year came, the discussions started and we've been just sort of dragging our feet. But typically end of the year, beginning of the year is when these discussions take place just because of the calendar. Um the parking is unrelated to any the parking. I was just wondering if it was a part of a trend. No, no, we're trying to get the parking authority um back in order there. And uh because you know there's a growing need for parking downtown. There's more businesses coming into downtown. So we're we're it's it's just a coincidence, but yeah, it's it's not unrelated.

So, but does the city generally need more revenue streams? I mean, I think all municipalities need more revenue streams, [laughter] you know, but but no, that's not the intent. That's not the intent the intent of the urban camping ordinance. I know a couple of you have talked about Yeah, I I'll stop.

All right. Uh as as we've discussed earlier, we've reached out to multiple other communities around the state. In fact, the city manager and I met with the Pittsburgh city police because of the success that they are having uh dealing with the homeless uh in the city of downtown part of the city of Pittsburgh. And one of the recommendations that they had was to have a a camping ordinance put in place for public property as as part of dealing with this. And we have had multiple meetings with uh like the magisterial district judges, multiple social service agencies, and the whole idea of this is to get people into a better position than having to sleep under a tent or on a park bench. How are you getting them into a better position? I know there's that social security worker, but how does that work?

Uh the right now there we're in discussions with social service agencies and one of them has stepped up and offered to try a position called a homeless coordinator. And when the police or the fire department or our codes department interacts with somebody or it let me make this a countywide issue, okay? and we're approaching it as a countywide issue. But say for instance in the city if the police department, the fire department or our codes department interacts with people who are need need shelter, okay, uh this coordinator position will make sure they get from point A to point B to point C through the process. Chief Swopee had had worked with with some agencies this past summer and they set up a program like that, but there were some noted failures within the social service agencies to be able to to respond on a quick enough basis and there was a a real uh lag in the ability to make sure they got from one step to the next step to the next step. So this coordinator position uh would be looking at from 35,000 ft and making sure people are taken care of.

So would this be a cityapp appointed position? No, it's going to be through a social service agency. The the key to this whole thing is it's got to be collaborative through the city government, the county government, the townships, and the social service agencies. We have a responsibility to keep people safe. Okay? And with that, we take that very seriously. But these social service agencies are the ones that get the funding to help people through these kind of problems. And we just think it's important to have consistent communications with them and collaborate to try to get people in a better place. So, what did you learn from those past attempts? So, what are you going to do differently, assuming you pass this ordinance and you do have that social security?

Well, like I said, we've met with the magisterial district judges. It's not the intent to criminalize this and put people in jail by any means or or put them in a position where they have to have more fines. We're looking at a lot of potential options. A potential option of of maybe doing public service uh if there's some criminal charge that's brought uh and and let me put it this way. We we are constantly open for suggestions to make this a better place. All right? We're not closed to to ideas to to make things to make things better.

Last thing I wanted to ask, someone mentioned earlier that section 8 funding is out. Is that true? I would defer you to the housing authority. They they actually gave a presentation on that at a meeting that the mayor and I were at last week, so I think they can give you a better clear picture on that. Okay, cool. Thank you. Meeting is adjourned. Rebecca, I need