Heritage / Historic District Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay, on to our uh design formal review applications. First up, we have an application for design review of a site plan for the Envision building, part of the Village on Technology Hill, PUD. This is at 5 Kittyhawk Landing zoned industrial and the village on technology hill planned unit development Londereerry Holdings LLC owner and applicant.

All right, good evening folks. Uh let me introduce myself and my team first. My name is Nick Olen. I'm a licensed engineer and principal with the firm uh TF Moran. To my right, uh Mr. Jeff Batalon, uh project architect uh with Market Square uh architects. Uh excited to be here tonight. Um this is the crown jewel of our project. Um this is the Envision building. um for the purposes of Envision Technologies for the the purposes just to give us a little bit of of history as to what Invision Technology does. Um this is a defense contractor. They're an innovative company focused on developing and producing electrooptical systems which help their customers detect, see, and locate. In short, they're making the products to keep our servicemen and women safe. Um so it's always exciting to be able to represent an applicant like this. um and be a part of this type of project team. Let's get ourselves located first if we can and then we're going to start talking about our building and I'll give Jeff the floor to do so. So, we have an overall plan. Um to the north or the upper leftand corner of the sheet is Kitty Hawk. Um excuse me, a Kira. As you come in off of Kira Way, uh to the right is our retail facility. Directly to the left is our child care. um we go over a a very cool element of our project which is our bridge um which the abutments have now been constructed for and we're looking forward to seeing that bridge be constructed. As you cross that bridge directly in front of you is our leasing building. Um then you can see in the circular loops our housing offerings. So spread across those nine buildings is approximately 439 units. Um the last item we were here for uh was our onpoint and what we're calling our our spec 60 building which is a 60,000 foot manufacturing space. Um those are

located to the bottom of the page to the south. Those come from Kittyhawk Landing and essentially what we perceived as our truck route. We're going to work our way a little bit north and northeast and you can see where it's a little bit more emboldened. This is the Envision building. It's a two-story structure of approximately 237,000 square ft. Uh associated parking areas surrounding it. You'll notice that the parking is divided purposefully. Um the lower portion which is comprised of approximately 700 parking spaces is for our employees. Uh whereas to the north and northwest you can see a smaller area which is for visitor parking primarily has the handicapped accessible parking um but is provides access directly off of Envision Drive. Uh there is a loop road that encircles the building for the purposes of the fire department as well as our delivery vehicles. Um to the south of the building is again the entrance for our employees. You can see that there's a a a network of some half arcs there that's intended to be an outdoor patio area. Um it sits directly outside of the cafeteria that's associated with the building. So again, just trying to provide all those various offerings that um an employee really looks to need and have. So this is our shoot this is our fifth offering. Um we we mentioned the the infrastructure package was the the first thing we talked about. There's the the nuts and bolts, the roadways, the drainage, um the water, the sewer, the residential and leasing, our retail child care, the onpoint, and the 60,000 foot manufacturing. And now last but certainly not least, um is our envision building. What I'm hoping we can do um and I was feeling a little nostalgic was just looking back at our first meeting with you folks. So it was the very end of 2023. uh we had had the opportunity to form this vision this this planned unit development and what I was hoping I

could do if I can depart for just one minute is I just wanted to read a blurb from our PUD and I'm hoping with the images and the descriptions that Jeff provides that you can see how we really have met the mark that we have set out um over two years ago to create this village this walkable community um that's promoting these different industrial uses while also uh pairing it with retail and child care and and a residential offering. Um so if if you wouldn't mind. Um the driving concept behind the design is to create a modern mill, one that pays homage to the region's industrial heritage while embracing contemporary materials and architectural elements. The building's facade will feature a harmonious fusion of pre-fabricated materials and architectural elements. The building's facade will feature uh excuse me uh a harmous harmonious fusion of pre-fabricated exterior wall panels and glass marrying form and function in a strikingly modern way. The large glass expanses exterior wall panels and glass marrying form and function in a strikingly modern way. Excuse me. Um, the large glass expanses, although unconventional in the context of a traditional New England village, are strategically incorporated to flood the interior with natural light, promoting a sense of transparency and connectivity with the workspace. Um, this forward-thinking architecture approach not only celebrates the evolution of New England's industrial landscape, but also reimagines it for the 21st century. Um, the Envision Manufacturing Building aspires to be a symbol of innovation and sustainability with its roof designed to support a solar array, demonstrating a commitment to eco-conscious practices by further advancing the modern high-tech manufacturing building design of the nearby Insight technology. This building seeks to enhance the very concept of a modern New England village, symbolizing the region's ability to embrace its rich history while embracing the future with open arms. So despite my foibless

walking through a couple of those elements, um I'm really excited to hear Jeff now explain how they have accomplished that goal. So if we could if we could flip to the the elevation uh drawing and I guess the the rendering renderings

the rendering specifically which is the next sheet. Jeff's going to walk us through just some various elements that we would typically discuss and and how this really ties to um the various structures that have already been created on site. Jeff. So Jeff Beth um honored to be here. Um so typically a lot of light industrial buildings are big boxes with no character and for envision it wants to be part of the village. It wants to be seen and so that's what we're trying to accomplish here. So looking at the renderings that top view is of the visitor entrance and if you scroll down you'll see on the bottom view you'll see the employee entrance. And so a couple of things that you'll commonly see throughout the village too as well is that we're maintaining um that charm. And in this instance, we have the overhangs, we have the slopes um and we have ribbon windows throughout. And that's also another element that you can see throughout the uh the village window ri uh the ribbon windows will provide natural light uh great working environment and also take advantage of the wonderful views as well. Um now on that top view you'll you'll notice that you have the front entrance, you'll have that visitor entrance and to the right there you start to see where we we are breaking up that facade. And we have a couple of uh accent borders as well. And in talking with the materials, um it's very important to have a base. And you're also going to see that throughout the village, too. And you'll be able to see some of what we're proposing here is that simulated uh stone. And that is also commonly found through all the other buildings in the

village. Uh keep that warmth. Warmth was very important to us. um by looking now if you're looking at the uh manufacturer painted u metal material there um that's also commonly found with onpoint and spec 60 the other industrial light industrial buildings uh at the village. So really we're trying to be cohesive um in our design and keep that charm um that you see. So, for metal materials, we're looking at three different types of tones. Um, again, something warm, something um neutral. Um, nothing nothing uh stark. Um, also with the um with the the metal panels as well, you can see um also looking at the siding on the underside of the overhangs, you'll start to see woodlike uh material as well. And that's also something that is warm and something that's very natural looking. And that's another common uh theme that you'll see at the village. Um Nick mentioned uh the solar array system. We do have a uh a screen up on the perimeter of the roof. Um and that's also a common theme that you'll see at on point and spec 60. Um you wouldn't be able to see the mechanical equipment at all. That would be centrally located in the building. Um, this is just more for the lowp profofile solar array system just to give that that added protection.

What type of a material is that wood like material? Yeah. So, right now we're looking at um metal panel does create a wood-like material, but there's certainly other materials out there as well. And uh those would be metal panels with like an actual wood grain texture on them. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Sure. Is that on the the top ridge line of the building? So, you'll see in the overhang it it it's on the inside and then it will come on the underside of the overhang as well. And we're also proposing that for the canopy. So, you'll also see the canopy above the door itself. Oh, I see it. But I want to zoom in.

Yeah. And that will be at both entrances. I'm not sure which one's managing the the screen. Can you zoom in for the crowd at home into the the corners of the you can see that the wood texture that he's mentioning there.

Just taking the opportunity to give you the overview. Uh we've talked about the different materials that are proposed. You see the colors, ranges of the textures. Um one thing we're not uh able to talk about tonight is landscaping, but you can see the semblance of how this will be tied together. TF Moran's landscape architect Mikey will put together that landscape plan that'll ultimately go for the planning board. But again, the idea is we're carrying through all these other elements that we've had within the village. Um these canopy type tree elements creating these smaller spaces um within the development itself and trying to do so in an environmentally favorable form or limiting wetland impacts. There are no wetland impacts proposed for this 237,000t building. It's a it's a tough option um in New Hampshire with our sites with our varying topography and the abundance of wetlands. So in lie of impacting those wetlands we've chosen to get site features um that can be integrated with walking paths or otherwise as part of this development. which again is supposed to be a village and a walkable community to achieve that. Um okay so no landscape plan currently. Um typically we do ask for that to be part of the package even for us

uh the lighting is we would come back with that for you. Okay. Um, we had the opportunity tonight knowing that the architects are are on schedule. We'll blame TF if we're behind. Um, but it gave you the opportunity to see what's coming. Um, and also so that we could solicit your opinion, your thoughts and if there are some tweaks. Um, there's always an opportunity for improvements that we'd have that opportunity to receive that feedback and then be able to pair that with the landscape architecture that you propose and bring that back for you at a future meeting. Okay. Um, are you opening to questions, Mr. Chair? What's up? Are you open to questions then? Yes, sir. What will the back side look like?

I'm only seeing the fronts. Just curious what the back will look like. You do have elevations on the first page of that document. Yeah, I know. Scroll up. I guess I was just wondering about the U. So, we would be trying to keep the same material. Um, it is proposed on that backside to be insulated metal panel, but that finish would be would be the same. Awesome. I love all the glass. It looks really really cool with all the glass. Yep. It provides some really striking views. So, we don't really have a back of the building. The reality is it's aesthetically pleasing the whole way around. Wonderful.

Um, the angles are really cool. Um, thank you for pointing out the the textured wood areas. That really brings a lot more um dimension to the building uh that I don't think people would realize just looking at the first image. I would definitely say in my opinion this building for a for a commercial industrial building exceeds my expectations. You're right. Most of the industrial buildings we see are big boxes. They're just metal. um with very simple features and this clearly is not that. So as much as I want to give Jeff all the credit, we also have to give the ownership. Yes, absolutely. They gave him the tools to work with.

Sure. The opportunity to design a building like this and uh it's exciting. That helps a lot. Yes, that's a very good good attention to detail is the uh the landscaping if you if you stick true to what these look like in the renderings also it looks very nice so be looking forward to seeing it but as far as the building I have no issues Mr. Sure. I have one one other question. Uh the plan drawing that we were provided. What are the areas that in the parking lot area?

Oh, sure. So, this is a very preliminary plan, but I thought for the purposes of at least tonight to get us located and to have a feel for flow, um those boxes are subsurface storm water systems. So, really for our meeting tonight, but ultimately for the overall plans, that will be an important feature. with such a big parking lot area and with how much you guys are doing solar panels. Have you guys thought about doing um parking lot solar arrays?

So there's pros and cons with the parking lot solar arrays. Um pros obviously are for generating more power and that's a great opportunity with the nature of this parking lot as curve linear really. So I've had the opportunity to do do a couple uh the GE aviation over in Oakand spaces lot easier. Yeah. you're in a pretty good spot. Um, but with that curved linear nature, it really doesn't lend itself to the structure type that are required. That makes sense.

Okay. Further questions or commentary from other board members? Yeah. Can you show us the uh materials you have down down here? I know you brought them in. They're not good, but uh we like the touchyfey stuff, too. They're having the full experience. Oh wow. It's Yes. So again, this is a a similar pretty much the same material that's being used throughout. So it's a same cementious type simulated uh I don't need to see it. He doesn't want to hold that thing. Anybody else? Right. Ones that our chairman's holding. Where will these ones be, please? So that would just be the sill. That's wicked.

These are the sill. Wow. So, it's nice to see that, you know, it's not just a a fake kind of product. It's real. Very durable and real. Wow. Wow. Thank you. Yeah, it's Yeah, I have a You see from here? I don't need to touch it. Wow. Yeah, that's a good product. I have a certaintied stone on my house, but it's of the vinyl variety. So, this is a little different. That's heavy duty stuff. This is halfway between the real stuff and Yeah. It's a company made to last and we want to make sure the building is too.

Uh, and that is just for clarification, these these renderings because the building is large are hard to tell, but it's just the bottom few feet of the building. Yeah, it's the base. I think it looks very good. Okay, further questions or comments? Certainly one of the best looking industrial buildings we've seen in this town so far. Excellent. This will become part of our legendary lookbook. You know,

so from what I'm hearing for for Jeff's sake is that he's done a nice job here. There aren't specific revisions what we're looking to see in the building and you guys look forward to seeing how the landscape will complement it and uh we'll see you there. Yes. Is there signage related just to this building at all? Um there's a graphic that the graphic shows an element that would provide some signage specific to the building, but uh the signage package would be done separately by vendor. So you'll still get to see that.

Okay. And the sign that's on the building is the same that's on the website for the company logo. Yeah, I was asking more specifically if they were going to have like any monument signs, but that makes sense. That's I remember you saying now that you were going to submit the entire directly in front of the leasing building. There will be a village on technology hill sign. Um but final design is still in the works. Okay. Because the you get the name up in the uh top part of the uh top part of the building. So

yeah, I would say uh at this point only recommendation is that we have you guys return with landscape. Other than that, I think the design looks good. Great. Next level. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. Thank you very much, gentlemen. Yeah. How you doing? Mr. Butler. Oh, hi. Hey, everyone.

You made it. Yeah. Okay. All right, moving on to our next application for design review of a site plan for a subdivision site plan and conditional use permit for a 48 unit multifamily residential development and associated site improvements in the commercial one district 222 Rockingham Road tax map 15 lot 150-1 Darkhorse Investments LLC owner and applicant I'm assuming he's going to come back for those. They might have just been under here. Oh, they might have just been sitting there already. They might. They kind of look older.

Put them over there. The movie after him. Community readers. Oh, the one Thank you for the

road. Thank you. Thank you. Uh briefly before you begin uh with the addition of Jim Butler to the day here uh we will appoint him to vote in place of Kristen Endike. Okay. It gives us seven voting members. Full compliment. Thank you. paper guy. I'm the wearable.

I'm good. I got it. Thank you. [Music] Well, [Applause] uh, good evening. Um, uh, my name is John Norton. Uh I'm the uh owner, developer uh and the manager of Darkhorse Investments LLC. Um and uh here tonight with me is Robert Schaefer, architect. Um so we're here to discuss our project uh that's located at 222 Rockingham Road. Um which is a residential multif family development um that consists of a uh four 12 unit buildings. Um, and we're also looking to um subdivide a the existing structure um that's along the frontage of Rockingham Road. So, you can see if you flip to the engineering plan set, excuse me, um there's a nice overview on sheet four that kind of depicts what we're looking to do here. Um, so just to give you uh we've we've been working on this for a couple years now. Um, and if you're if you're not familiar, this is located across the way from the large freezer warehouse um on Rockingham Road, kind of, you know, adjacent, I guess, if you will. Um,

there's a car dealership right

there's a car dealership right next door. Yep. Exactly. And there's a commercial building. As you continue down Rockingham Road, there's some restaurants, etc. Um so the property is about 10 acres in size. Um and we're looking to subdivide the existing house uh off of which is about an acre uh leaving the remaining parcel to be developed for residential multif family. Um the underlying zoning is the C1 district uh and is also within the route 28 overlay district. Um so the property is about 1,000 ft deep. Um and we will meet all the applicable underlying setbacks and everything with this development. So we're not seeking any waiverss. Um, so what's unique about this is as you see there's actually a wetland finger that's kind of that bisects the property and it is really conducive to this type of development versus others versus a commercial or industrial etc. Um because it creates a natural buffer among the you know the two you know pods I guess if there are two pods here. So you have the first and you have the back. And what's nice is that these buildings will have trees surrounding them on two or three sides, which is pretty unique. And what's also unique about these is that this is a very much a different type of project that's been, you know, built recently. Um many new developments are several hundred units. Um which, you know, doesn't appeal to everybody. Um and when I first went to the town with uh this concept is you know there's a very much an underserved market in Londereerry. Um and when you review the housing production plan it's you know the younger generation there's they they can't afford you know to buy houses and it's forcing them to leave Londereerry. Um and same thing with downsizers as well. So that's kind of who we're

targeting here. Um, and what's unique about this is that we don't have a lot of the intentionally we don't have the fancy amenities that you would see at some of these other developments. Swimming pools, gyms, doormen, package people, you know, we don't have that. So, um, the intent is that these will be very competitively priced. Um, you know, I'm a home builder at heart and, you know, I'd love people to see people have home ownership down the road. So, that's kind of I'm trying to bridge the gap here and fill that need in London. And um that just kind of to set the table for the rest of discussion tonight in terms of the design. So I'm happy to continue uh if you guys have any questions or we can kind of jump into the the renderings.

Sure.

So um and I Rob feel free to jump in. Um, so these are very unique buildings and I think if very efficiently laid out. So you have four units per floor and what's unique about them is that they're all corner units. So a lot of these new developments, they're they only have two or three windows. You know, there's not a lot of natural light. In this case, every single unit is a corner, a lot of natural light. And what's also unique about them is the layout inside is that they're almost mirrored. So, you know, you could, you know, have, you know, um, young professionals that want to share the rent, um, or people maybe siblings that are older, they want to move in together and downsize, etc. So, there's everybody has their own bathroom, your own your own bedroom, but that common space in the middle, which I think is, you know, very appealing. Um, and the other thing is that what's unique about this is that you don't have 30 other residents on your floor. You only have three, you know, so it's a much smaller, you know, feel that you don't typically see. Um, so I just I just wanted to point that out. Um, in terms of the design, I think and and Rob, you know, you can speak to this, but we were trying to go for more of a traditional New England look. And, um, what's unique about this is that there's a central staircase that serves these units, and the unit actually wraps that same unit wraps around the staircase. Um, so you get a lot of dimension by doing that. when you look at the when you look at the view one rendering um you know you can see the different roof lines, the gables, the hip roof and same thing with the entrance. Um so in terms of colors, we we we went back and forth on this quite a bit um as you can imagine. Um but the the the first floor color is a platinum color, so it kind of reminds me of like a granite color. So we were trying to go with, you know, earthy tones. Um and we end up with um grays and natural linen

up top and in the middle we have a mystic blue. Um which is nice and you know reminiscent of uh the sky. Um we we originally had green design but it seems to be that that's what everybody's doing. So uh we want to try to be different um in in that. So, the the first floor is um cedar shakes uh vinyl siding, platinum, and then as you kind of look at that entrance in the middle, we have a what looks to be a a Douglas fur look door um which is kind of nice. And then at the that front gable, we have actual PVC um and uh a PVC composite board and batten. And that roof entrance right there, it doesn't really show it in this in this rendering, um, unfortunately, but it's actually a sta a standing seam roof, metal roof, which is nice. Again, adds a little bit of dimension,

color and color as well. Yep. And I guess that leads us to the middle, which is your just your traditional um lap siding that you would see on many houses in New England. And on the the top floor, we actually have a vinyl board and batton kind of to tie everything together. And that's a natural linen color. And I have samples of everything for to show you guys tonight, including the roof color. Um, and so I can

The other aspect of the elevation was to try to reduce the impact of the overall height of the building being three stories by putting the layering of the colors and the horizontal bands. So it breaks up the verticality of the building. And so you can flip through to oh and actually let me take a step back. Um what you're seeing here in terms of the landscaping and the scale is exactly what we have laid out um on the on the plan. So what you're seeing is what it will very similarly uh is a similar accurate representation of what will be there. Um, the front entry area wanted to try to keep this keep it to a more residential scale, more inviting, more welcoming. Again, instead of a broad open space, it's a lower porch roof, more like you would find in a house.

Mhm. And that's actually a good point on the porches. So what's also unique about this versus other larger developments is that if you look at the side of um you know the side profile here even on that on you know slide two here um each porch there's nobody else at your level. So you almost have like a private porch except from you know who's above or below you which is unique because if you look at other developments you have multiple next to you and you know so you do have a little bit of privacy and that kind of gets back to you know trees on almost all three sides of a building which is also pretty unique. Um, so I just wanted to point that out that let's see and you can just kind of flip through the different renderings here. Then this is so this is a representation of that the the second pod on on the on the site plan. So you're kind of you're looking at that that back pod and you can just flip through uh maybe view four as well. There you go. See, you know, there's a lot of dimension to these. It's not like your standard rectangle, you know, uh, garden style building that doesn't I mean, we try to have a lot of character here and a lot of dimension.

And so that that kind of the all the the plantings here are a representation of what's on the landscape architect's plan as well. Um and so we can talk about that if if you want now or Sure. Okay. And so just at a high level, it might be more helpful to just look at still on slide four of um this the physical presentation here. Um but uh I I I went through and I counted we have 447 plantings uh which is pretty pretty amazing. So pretty dense. Yeah, it's pretty looking at the

Yeah. Yeah, a lot of them are are are little grasses and stuff, but um we'll we'll still add a lot of, you know, dimension to it. So, um as you look at it, we have you kind of surrounding these buildings, we have a lot of naturalization, which is nice. So, allow some of these areas to naturalize. Um and another thing that I want to point out before we get into the arc, you know, the landscape design is that um one of the things that was important to me was to maximize the green space. And when we first started laying out this site, the first pod there of the buildings A and B, um we originally had laid out for another retention pond between the buildings, but we were able to engineer the site to send that water to one huge pond in the back. Um so really trying to maximize that space and the green area around the buildings. Um so I just wanted to point that out. Um, and in terms of the actual um, landscape design, I'm I'm obviously not a landscape architect, but um, I think the renderings really kind of capture what we're trying to get out there um, in terms of plantings. Um, and I think the requirement uh, on the landscape plan, I believe we needed like 2,900 square feet of landscape air and I think we have 5,400. So, um, quite a bit extra plantings. Um, you know,

plus the green area in the parking lot, so breaks up the pavement, breaks up the parking, some shading, shade trees. Yep. And and also, um, another thing to point out is if you go back to that second pod, and this is not something in our rendering that we added after the fact, but um, if you look along the that that bottom lot line, you'll see uh, I believe seven trees um, proposed, and that creates a real nice buffer. those will really grow in nicely. Um there's already a nice natural buffer there, but that's just going to create essentially a nice wall. Um so that was intentionally done and added as well. So

I see you have some sering vulgaras in there. Lilacs lilacs over there. Do like to see those. Yeah. And and my ironically my proposed street name is again this is I think it's going to come down the the fire department is Lilac Lane. So, I thought that would be nice name, but there's a lilac drive. So, I don't know if that will fly. Probably not. Probably not. So, we'll give them a couple options. They have a list you can choose from. They do. Also, yes. Okay. We'll have to check that out. We gave them a list. They're responsible for row names and nothing's happened. So, I've just seen crackling log.

Well, we weren't sure if this is going to be a named access drive, but it seems as though it might be. So, we're still kind of uh, you know, trying to determine that. Access or access. Access, meaning the road entry. Yeah. Yeah. We weren't sure if it was just going to have a, you know, 224 Rockingham Road or something, you know, but, um, it seems it's going to be named, at least from initial feedback. So, um, and I can give you some color samples and the roof samples as well if you guys want to look at that,

please. [Music] This is the rooftop and this is the actual middle part of the building. And then these are the three siding colors. So you can kind of see how it goes with the roofing. I got on my own. Boy,

yeah. Not heavy.

You said the platinum gray is where on the building? That's on the bottom. The bottom. Yep. First floor. That'll be uh Cedar Shake. Cedar Shake. All All the way around. Yep. Okay. Let's go. The uh the first image that we have doesn't show as cedar shake. It shows it as just you know what it's actually it's hard to see it. These files are so big that we have to simplify them and you can't resol. Yeah. Unfort the files are massive. They take hours to generate these.

Um so that is the cedar shake entrance the whole way around the building. So we have three different types of siding which is in your you know your lookbook as well obviously. Um those are traditional traditionally what you would see here. Um and then that roof like I said at the entrance is different. Uh gives a little bit of color and dimension. It's a standing seam roof. So that will just be a standard black you know or dark gray. That was an interesting choice. I was going to bring that up actually. What made you do standing metal on the entrance but not on the rest of the building? Better opportunity to put color in narrow range of colors to work with or stay in exam. We can get it better. Any concern about snow and ice?

It's pitched away, so the walkway is straight up underneath the gable. So all the snow and ice would fall into a landscaped area. It's probably actually better for the snow so it doesn't stay on the building. Yeah. It'll slide right off. Yep. Last thing you want is the snow building up there and creating a problem. Mr. Chair, are you open for questions to them? Yes, sir. So, I got to say I really like the look of this. Um especially the detailed on the corners. Thank you.

Uh the corner pieces that you have. Um it it it's very reminiscent of um I go down to Avlon, New Jersey, and they have a lot of that kind of detail on the buildings. Um, and a lot of the the mixture of the the different sighting pieces of the the shakers, the board and baton, um, and the different levels of the architectural corners. It's it's really nice and something you don't really see in this area too often. I appreciate that. Thank you. Um, and I think that the colors will really break it up well. And certainly this neighborhood with how wood it currently is, people don't even, you know, it's probably even there. That's right. Right. And that's from the streetscape. You you likely won't see it, especially with that wetland finger. It'll block even more in the back.

And it's a little hard to tell from the different angles, but I take it every unit has a deck space. Mhm. Exactly. The back. Wonderful. What is the square footage in each of these? You may have mentioned this. It's about actually I didn't. Um, so it's a good question. It's It's around,00. So it's very comparable that you would get elsewhere. So it's my goal here is to provide a high quality similar finish on the in interior that you would get at a much higher price point without those amenities. Um so it's a it's a very goodiz unit and and you know includes everything you would expect. You know washer and dryer, linen closets, things that you don't think about an island, kitchen island. So I was about to ask about the washer dryer. You don't see that too often.

Nope. Washer and dryer. It's it's going to be very competitive. That's the whole idea of this is to, you know, help help, you know, bridge the gap of, you know, there's not a lot of options right now for my generation. Um, you know, and this is kind of my the target market. And it's funny, you know, when I went to pick up these from the print shop, the the blueprint place, uh, the lady that handed them over, she says, "Oh, these are great. I'd love to get my dad into one of those." I'm like, "Well, that's the other target market." So, it's very interesting. So, the first floor is very appealing for that for people downsizing, you know. Again, you get the old.

That's right. Yep. And hopefully, you know, if they want to stay, they can stay. Great. And, you know, hopefully I can build them a house if they once they save, you know, some money and they want to buy, you know, buy something. So, question, Mr. Butler, I think you did a great job. Thank you. Uh, and I appreciate your putting in the uh the shutters because it really softens the feel of the building versus some of these that are going up and they there's no character. Yeah. None. They look like hospitals quite

that's my opinion. Uh two things have me concerned and I'm sure that it'll probably the planning board will do but I'll kind of mention it now because I'm sure it'll come up. Is there any elevators in here? No elevator. Yep. No elevators. Okay. Uh the other thing too is uh the location of the driveway is very close to Smith Lane which is a very dangerous intersection. So my suggestion is my suggestion is make sure the signing's appropriate and we have plenty of light there. Mhm. Yeah, we do have a light plan there as well uh in in this plan here. So you you will see uh that's a you bring up a great point that I did not touch on. I'll take it. [Applause]

I think it's a great concept. Thank you. Fits it well. Yes. There's a lighting plan on page slide 14 of that and it you know there is a light at that entrance area. Okay. Yeah. Yep. So for visibility standpoint and um you know we do we have to do 150 sight line for this the state road. I'm curious the sight distance. Oh we have the sight distances. Yeah. Okay. Yeah we did all that. Yeah, cuz that's we got to make sure in my opinion we got to make sure that's cut back. Yes, as you as you pointed out um they'll obviously go through the planning board and we'll exact traffic, but we did have a preliminary scoping meeting already about this and the others that are along this corridor.

Okay, that'll definitely be addressed, Jim. So, Oh, I'm sure it will. I figured I'd bring it up now, though. Now when I look at Woodmont that we okay I say to myself just before saying this I said too many textures and too many colors Woodmont it's busy busy I don't I don't know I keep thinking we goofed on that one and now it's Can we try to do like one texture or one color said Woodmont is well I think I know exactly what you're talking about because I'm I'm over there a lot And those buildings are,

you know, multiple multiple colors and textures in a row. So, I know what you mean with it being too busy. I don't personally feel that way about this one. I think it breaks it up a little bit. If we went with one texture and color for the whole thing, it might look a little monolithic, I think. But agreed. I' I'd defer to Rob on that stuff, but I try not to do that. Yeah. But Sue to your point, the the the bottom color and the top color, if you look at the the samples are pretty similar. They're a little bit different, but they're similar. So they're not, you know, completely texture differently. Texture and then a little bit of color, but

yeah, the texture is going to darken the lower one more because it create shadow lines within the material itself. So it does darken up a little bit and make for a better base. Definitely good contrast. Yes, it's Are the windows I Are the windows and the stairwells are they going to be stationary or are they going to be able fixed windows? Fixed windows. Okay. I'm assuming the stairwells just above the entrance. That row of windows directly above. Yeah.

Top top floor will be twotory opening. So you get a lot of nice light in there. And then I do openings on the sides too. So get a real good light distribution coming in. Hang a nice fixture in there is because we had another project where stairwell location was similar and there was a roof there and open the windows. Yeah. And the kids could literally get out onto the roof. That's why that's a doing fix for sure. Yep. Okay. That's great. Okay. further questions or comments. Yeah. Where are the mechanicals for these? The front left and right cooling.

So the front left and right there's one's electrical ones and water and um sprinkler fire protection. Um the units have their own independent mechanicals. On the on the deck, you'll see a little closet door swinging in. That's where the um HVAC HVAC VTAC unit will be. Yeah. Um Well, it's considering either central hot water or hot water heaters in there, too. So, determine that later, but there's room for either way to go.

Any further questions, comments with that? Typically, there's no no exterior air conditioner condensers, which I hate. They look terrible and running line set. So, we have P units that have that in the mechanical closet. So, they're also wired off the unit. They're on their own circuit, the resident circuit. Um, and they keep everything within the unit. Avoid the single failure point condensers instead of the whole single failure. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, then also when you have those exterior ones, you have the environment that gets to them, not just, you know, people. Okay, there's not any further questions or commentary. I think uh we can give our recommendations up to the planning board. Um looks good, I think. Looks great job, guys. Thank you. So, this does a go to a vote. You recommend. Is that how it works? Yep. Uh so, we're an advisory committee. Okay. So, we'll give our recommendations to the planning board. Ultimately, they make a a hard decision, right? Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good evening. Good job. Thank you.

All wires here.

Materials here. I forget. Yeah. The next one out.

Mhm. concern you're right here looking this way to go out. Okay, moving on to our next application which is for design review of a site plan conditional use permit and condominium conversion for a 12 unit townhouse residential development and associated site improvements in the commercial two district 295 Rockingham Road tax map 17 lot 25 Pedrock LLC owner and thank you

okay thank you very 295 Rockingham Road the homepage right there.

Hi, thank you uh everybody and good evening. Um for the record, my name is Paul Chisum. I'm with Kee Nord Associates. I am joined tonight by Gary Thomas of North Point Construction Management and from the owner applicant side, Dean Navoli of Page Rock LLC. Uh, as you mentioned, this this project is located at 295 Rockingham Road. Uh, it is a 12unit townhouse development. Uh, just from a real uh brief overview level of where we're at, where we've been. Uh, we're in the design review process. Uh, we have not received uh staff or peerreview comments yet. So, we're still a little earlier on in the process. Uh, we did, however, go to the conservation commission last month. Um, as a result of that, we did kind of shift and move some things around. The paper packets that I passed out to you contain the latest and greatest. Um, and also, uh, PDFs that will be up on the screen as well. I figured, uh, what we could do is just kind of flip along sheet by sheet and I can just kind of run through briefly what we're doing. Uh, really on the first sheet is obviously the, uh, uh, detailed site plan. Uh, access is provided right off of Page Road. Rockingham Road, if you're looking at this, would be kind of on the upper part of the sheet. Um the the driveway access driveway obviously kind of comes in and provides a little bit of a bend uh and then straightens out back in between the town homes uh where there's individual driveways um landscaping lighting all that stuff and then guest parking and NFPA turnaround on the on the rear end of that along with storm water management. Uh that's also where the dumpster enclosure is proposed so it'll be kind of hidden from public view in the back corner of the site there. Flipping on to the next sheet was really just the grading and drainage plan. Just kind of gives you a sense of, you know, how's it going to sit. It's a relatively flat site. I mean, there's a little bit of a hill kind of or peak kind of in the middle uh of it, but it's going to be cut down a little bit. It it is a relatively flat site. Um, you know, there will be a little bit of variation

in topography. Um, but more or less no crazy slopes or anything like that. Um, moving on to the landscape plan. Um you can see that there's a number of street trees and shrubs uh kind of present throughout including in between each of the um I guess driveways and garages for the units. Um obviously I know the town uh prefers to have some lilacs and lilac varieties in there. So there's some of that kind of spread out throughout. Um moving on to the lighting plan which is the next sheet. Um, effectively, you know, the the goal with this was to provide really a residential scale landscaping and lighting. The lighting uh is a little bit different than obviously like a commercial application or something along those lines. Uh, for safety, we did put a light kind of at the driveway entrance there adjacent to Page Road. There's uh three other poles, so four total. The one by the entrance, one right in the middle uh and then two down towards the end uh just near the guest spaces in the dumpster area. Uh each of the units of course has you know residential scale you know building mounted uh lights. Uh what those look like are on the lower portion of that um of that sheet there. Uh moving on to the building itself. As I mentioned these are uh two six unit uh townhouse buildings each. Uh each of those buildings will have two bedrooms and an office. Um the first floor is a singlecar garage space. There's obviously a space for an additional car outside of that. It's kind of the living kitchen uh dining room area. Moving on upstairs to the second floor is where you have the bedrooms and office. And then um on the next sheet, you'll see that the lower level has a basement uh for obviously storage and everything like that. These units are the intent uh at this point in time is to turn them into condos and they will be for sale. Uh so that's why uh you'll see some of these things. It was kind of introduced into the design more so than what a

renter would want. Um, what is at this location now? What's that? What was at the location before there right now? There's nothing. I don't know historically what has been there. I don't know. Gary, are you uh a previous owner or did you buy it out? Cuz we did have We did have some housing going into that corner. This 28 and Page Road, remember and they wanted a driveway going out to Old Mammoth. They wanted to change some zoning. Yeah. Yeah. That is that

that was this uh this is actually a scaledback version. There there was feedback for that. I think at the time it was 40 units and it was more of an apartment style project. Um that feedback obviously I you know truthfully I don't think we felt it was wellreceived as a project and there were some concerns that I get.

Yeah. That uh we feel that this is uh a stronger project to kind of address a lot of that feedback and certainly it's different and less impactful. So, um, you know, this is where we landed with it. Um, I think really the best thing to look at here is the architectural perspectives. Uh, Gary and his team did an awesome job kind of preparing these. Um, as you can see, you know, I personally think it's a nice looking building. Uh, in terms of the materials that'll be on there, you know, you'll have vinyl clapboard siding, uh, in white. Uh, there's also a vinyl shake siding in blue. Uh, the windows are vinyl. Um, you know, different color doors. Uh uh the roof is an architectural asphalt. So these are all pretty like standard residential, you know, style, I guess, materials. Um for something like this, uh you know, stuff that you would typically see. Nothing really out of the out of the ordinary, but I think it's done in a well way. And you know, personally, I like it. Obviously, reasonable minds can disagree with that. So happy to hear your feedback, but um you know, that that was really kind of the goal with this. Uh the last two sheets in your packet, you'll see that there's um a couple different signage options. Uh we are certainly interested in hearing your feedback on if there's a preference, you know, from the from the commission here. Uh they're very similar at the end of the day. Uh you can see the first option really um the the sign's a little bit longer and a little bit shallower, if you will. Uh and then if you go to the next, you'll have that same kind of stone veneer and then the uh actual sign is kind of more centered in between the wood and the stone. So um you know obviously I

I'm an engineer, you know, this artsy stuff isn't necessarily uh my forte per se, but uh so I'm always willing to you know, entertain feedback from others who have a better eye for that sort of thing. So uh with that, you know, as I mentioned, the team's here, happy to answer any questions you have. Um, I have a couple of questions. One being, did you happen to bring any samples, material samples with you? Uh, no, we did not. Okay. So, then second question is, I'm just curious if the rendering is more or less true to the color scale that you're looking for. Um, is the blue and the white pretty close to what you're actually looking?

Yeah, general intent, but we're also looking for feedback from you guys, too. and and as Paul had mentioned, um it's going to be pretty standard vinyl side and we're looking for some maintenance-free and asphalt shingle. Mhm. Um we are planning on the the wood grain um overhead doors and front entry door. They'll probably more than likely be a fiberglass or pre-engineered, not real wood, you know, just cuz they're so expensive and you know, so it'll simulate wood though. Simulated wood. That's correct. Yep. Okay. And the the windows are two over one.

Yes, two over one. And we're planning on sort of that farmhouse black look to them as well. So, we feel like it just gives the project a lot of pop rather than just white on white, you know? I agree. The uh the rear perspective is is pretty much just grayscaled. Um what is the what is the color scheme that you're looking for there? It would still be white across the back with that farmhouse look. I I think what happened there was if you look the way that our rendering system works when it goes to flat like that, it's probably more of a shade and shadow. The way you see the overhangs

on the front, you see sort of that grayscale underneath the overhangs. I think that's maybe what happened to the back of that, but it would we're planning on white cuz then if you look at the other end gable, it's very bright white on the end gable look there. So, yep. Okay. And matching material obviously to the front facades that are white.

Correct. Yep. and the the patios. You know, we're still kind of working out the grades with Paul. These were early on renderings, but more than likely we'll probably end up doing um granite steps out the back um onto a brick pave patio or something like that. It won't we're not planning on wood wood decks. We're looking at something more of a brick paver type. And there will be bulkheads on the some of them will a few of them will have to have walkouts because of the pitch of the grade. But yep, that's actually on the page road project. This is the not on the 29. That's true.

But uh but yeah, we'll we'll touch on that. Okay. Um my personal opinion, I like the first sign a little bit better, but honestly, they are very similar. So either way, I think they look good. Uh what kind of stone? Uh it would be a uh more than likely we would probably go with a guillotine real stone. Um not a huge fan of cultured stone just cuz it tends to break down and fall apart and you know especially with salting and things like that. What's that? You've been through it. Oh yes, very much so. Any light within the sign? Uh wasn't planning on it. No. Nope.

Yep. You can see there's there's a couple lights kind of sticking off small scale on the side but not anything like that. It's different. Yeah. Very small scale. Then it won't be like lit from below or anything like that. No. Yeah. In fact, all all the lighting for the project's dark sky compliant. So you'll have nothing, you know, pointing up or anything like that. I mean, for the most part, these are people that going to live there. So if they haven't figured out where they live after, you know, they they need the sign, you know. So we're just really kind of looking at it as an architectural feature. in that small little light on the pier there, you know. So, sure.

Question, Mr. Butler, please. Uh, I like option two. So be it. I think the design's great. Uh, I'm a guy that likes shutters. Just softens the face. That's the only thing I would ask you guys to consider. But everything else is fine. And that area for traffic's, as you probably know, past experience is tough. So like to make sure that the sign is set far enough. Set back. Yeah. Sure. Great job. Thanks for coming back. Yeah. Thank you.

And I I know our your previous um clients here that just presented all of our HVAC equipment is planned for the basement area lower level. So, that's where that stuff will and it'll be forced hot air. So, what is the uh I see there's uh small I'm not sure if they're vents or windows in the peaks to the roofs. Really just an architectural feature. Um so, it'll it'll be faux. It won't be an active, you know, it's we're going to have our standard ridge vent and set vents and stuff. And so, Gotcha. These are just like a little black of wood or something.

Yeah, more than likely they'll be a vinyl. Um but preferably not like really open to the attic. We just feel like it in invites too many insects and be attached to the side to the side. Yeah. And then right above the garage door there's like a rectangle a design element also. Design element but mostly to have like a a barn style light fixture overhanging the garage door. So if somebody's expecting company, they can leave that leave that light on but not, you know, light up the entire complex. So I really like these uh garage doors. Yeah, thank you. My wife would be jealous.

What is uh what's going to be up in the the peaks of the roof? Just open space. Oh, open. Yeah, more than likely it's going to end up just being a standard truss system. No real usable attic space. They've got a full basement for storage. So, sure. Yeah, it looks good. The little end um bumpouts are really meant to house um between fire protection on one end and probably meter sockets and cable and things like that on the other end. So, Other questions or comments from commission members?

Um, is there going to be I guess do you have a a light plan here? Uh, yeah. Yeah, the lighting plan should be the third one in. So, you do you do have a light at the entrance? I was about to ask. Yes, correct. That's right. Yep. And again, we're you know, we're still working through those types of details. We haven't received the feedback from safety or you know DPW or anything like that. So all of that is very much subject to change and we'll do what makes sense. But um you know from a first stab at it that seemed reasonable for us to put in there and it seemed to make sense. So we'll see where it lands but that's what we're envisioning.

Same uh overhanging barn style like the oiled bronze like black. Yeah. more than likely there'll be a black style to match the windows and yeah, there's a uh decor uh integrated LED outdoor wall enter and a uh aluminar also.

Yeah, th those uh the one on the left didn't really come through well with the image on there. And u we're certainly happy to, you know, provide a more matching style for the overhead lights, too. But um that was kind of where our lighting consultant initially took that. Um I think a little bit of coordination there with the architectural plans. Uh we're going to make them look more like what you see on the on the renderings because you can you send a a copy of it to the our staff and they can always get it to us. Perfect. Okay. Yeah, we can do that. Okay. There no further questions or comments? I'd recommend it. Okay, we will give our recommendations to the planning board.

Thank you very much. Sounds good. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah. Oh, you have got one more as well. Yeah, this is a double double header. I think you'll see it looks very very similar. Same. Try not to get confused between the two sets. Next, we have an application for design review of a site plan for a 12-unit townhouse development and associated site improvements along with a conditional use permit for 1,335 square ft of wetland buffer impact in the commercial two district three-page road tax map 15 lot 235 Pedrock LLC owner and applicant. Okay, we're seeing double here. Oh, yeah.

Okay. So yeah, obviously yeah,

not a whole lot different here. Uh I do want to walk you through a couple subtle differences between the projects. Um obviously this this one does orient on Page Road and has frontage on Page Road similarly. Um there's also a second smaller parcel that's going to be merged with this bigger piece. Uh and we are proposing uh we originally had the driveway coming out to Page Road, but based on we did receive feedback from the peer review and and staff and um to kind of make things I think a little bit better. Uh and although we haven't run this by them, uh this is kind of the first time we're you know anyone's seeing it. Um we feel like this is a better option is actually to bring the driveway out to Mammoth Road. Um just given kind of where the stop signs are in that less less traveled.

Yeah, I think it's just you know a little less speed. um a little less quite frankly a little less dangerous in my opinion. So uh we think that's going to clear up some of the comments and feedback that we've received so far. Um obviously we are working through that. Um so some of the differences between this it's very much you know the same style building. Um same style landscaping. Uh the lighting is a little bit less on this and I'll tell you why. Um we didn't put and if you look at the third sheet you'll see um we did add um uh obviously the same style lighting around the buildings uh in terms of the fixtures and the orientation everything like that. In terms of actually lighting the site there's a couple guest parking spaces in for the turnaround um you know we put two light poles on either side of that. We didn't put one up by Mammoth Road. The reason being that uh there's a house you know right there. Um, we felt it was reasonable not to have it. Um, you know, when you when you look at the other projects, Page Road is a much wider right away. When you add in the landscape buffers and everything like that, um, it just, you know, you're an extra probably two or uh, probably three or almost four times the distance by the time you get to the driveway on the other side. As I mentioned, the house across the street on Mammoth is pretty close to that road, so we didn't want to overwhelm them with light. Um, the signage, same two options really. Um, so it's going to have a little bit of lighting with that. Um, there is an existing street light right at the intersection of Paige and Mammoth. Um, I'm not suggesting that would light this entrance by any means, but you know, there is some street lighting out there. So, that's kind of the difference in terms of the lighting with that. Like I said, the landscaping is very, very similar. Um, same style of plants and everything like that.

Yes, sir. Since we're speaking about lighting now, um I guess instead of doing a big overhang light, would it be appropriate for maybe spotlighting onto the sign for the entrance so that you know delivery vehicles or anyone else who's trying to find the area late at night at dark and can actually find the location? Yeah, I mean we could we could consider options like that. I think this this truthfully I I want to have a discussion with John and with staff and kind of work through that. I'm absolutely not opposed to that as an idea, though. So, we'll we'll consider that. You know, there's little like spotlight things that pop up on the ground or something like that. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of a ground spotlight, mostly because of winter conditions and leaves and all that stuff. Something to soft compliance.

Dark sky compliance. My preference would honestly be to try to do a a shaded LED that just sort of focuses on casting on the sign and it's not blinding people and it's downcast. downcast only on the sign itself, you know. Yeah. Just not crazy about uplighting ones for seasonal effects, you know. Skies up. That's Yeah. Yeah. Especially close to an airport. Yeah. Yeah. I know. They have they have uh enough hardships these days, don't they? But obviously if we did that to one, we would probably do it to the other one just so that they are similar, you know. Yeah. No, that sounds like a great idea.

Okay. Um, and then really the other key difference with this, uh, in terms of the buildings, uh, as you're looking at the site plan, uh, the the the building to the north or the upside of your sheet is, uh, substantially similar to the other units you saw on the other one in terms of, you know, uh, having the basement and two floors. The units on the the south side or the page road side, those are actually going to be walkouts. Um, so it's going to be a little bit different and you can see uh later on in the set you'll see um some of the renderings for that just to really get a perspective of what it looks like. Um, it's actually the first sheet that shows the buildings here. Um, so like I said, that's going to be the side that kind of faces Paige Road. Um, and then and that just really has to do with the way that the topography is on site. things really kind of drop off as you get closer to the road and um so to you know counteract that instead of cutting down a lot of trees and grading you know into the landscape buffer and stuff like that. It actually really worked well with the site topography and the proposed grades to do a walk out on those units. So um that's what we're proposing on that end. It does also leave you know you don't have uh you don't have any bulkheads or anything like that. So it provides a little bit more room for patios and a little bit more kind of a you know backyard area if you will for each of the unit owners. Um, obviously materials substantially similar. I'm not aware of any difference on that. You can see the colors are a little bit different in terms of kind of that uh that green color that's in there rather than the blue, but believe the white is all really proposed the same. Same with the doors and everything like that. So,

Oh, yeah. I actually had noticed. So, it's more like a hunter green type of color. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. [Music] Oh, I was going to say I'm always page road. How come? I thought I knew but it has nothing to do with Mammoth Road. All of a sudden I'm trying to Page Road and Mammoth. Can you describe the uh How come I location? Sure. Yeah. So, Rockingham Road uh and Paige Road intersect. So, across the street are a couple new industrial buildings and things like that. Uh, Page Page Road continues down, turns into Grineer Fields. If you go straight past Mammoth, it's

it's pretty much at the intersection of Old Mammoth and uh, Grineer, as you would probably recall it. Old Mammoth and what? Uh, Paige and Grineer. That four-way right up the street from Merrill. Oh. Oh, you said Old Village. That might help me. Curious. Got use some of the old names for it. I try. That's as far back as I go. Old is good for me. Okay. So, it's up like past the bacon barn. Oh, yeah. Towards Manchester. Oh, south of Merrill Farm.

Yeah. Merryill Farm where the apple orchards are is like right that's right on Mammoth right there. Yep. Remy Porton's place. Yeah. Yep. That's right north of us. Y Mr. Chair, real quick question. Uh you have uh the back of some of those uh town homes facing Page Road

and we're looking at an overhead now and it looks pretty forested. Uh how much of that is going to stay? What I'm trying to get at is I I know how these things happen. sometimes and if we don't have appropriate screening there, people are going to drive by, they're going to see bikes, they're going to see all kinds of all kinds of items in the back and we've discussed that before. So, my concern is the sighteline. Mhm. And what type of screening we actually going to get there. Yeah. So, that that's a pretty thick vegetation that's in there and it's going to remain probably about 35 40 5T something like that. Um Yeah. So, I I'm not overly concerned about that necessarily, but um I just wasn't sure how much

Yeah. was gonna say or how much it were gonna clear. Yeah. Um Yeah. No, with being adjacent to a couple single family residences across the street, there's a landscape buffer that's in there and everything like that. And, you know, truthfully, that's a very wide rightway and the roads really centered on it. So, you you like, you know, if you look at it compared to the rightway on Mammoth, it's about three times, you know, two and a half, three times the size of it. So it it'll provide a little bit more buffer there. Good. Thank you. Y I agree with Jim. I like the option number two. Okay. That's two two votes for two and I think Chris is one vote for That's right. Yeah.

Okay. Either one. Like I said, they both look good, but the only recommendation of the planning board. Okay. You go from like 60 to 8. Uh the only the only thing that might come into consideration there is that that first sign's large. So I don't know if the square footage is going to be a problem. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. We'll we'll either design looks great. Sure. And we'll we'll design it based around what the square footage of what the final sign permit will allow us to to do, too. So, okay. Further questions or comments? All right. We will give our recommendations to the writing board. Sounds good. Sounds good. Thank you. Thank you.

Seriously. Okay. I will open discussion to other business if anybody has any to discuss who these were. But um we need to check up on our two alternates we haven't seen in a while. Uh Megan Thompson and uh uh Laura Shankman. Okay. Megan Thomas. Thompson. Sorry. Megan Thompson. More sh. Okay.

I was curious what happened to the Lions Hall sign. Did that get stored anywhere or do we know anything about it? I am actually not aware of what happened with that after it might I don't know if Art knows anything more. There was a committee right that was overlooking whether to restore it. Yeah. Kathy Wagner's chair. Yeah. Dave Wley is kind of uh keeping you know track of things there. curious Christian or if it was still around the the the Reverend Morrison House committee is disbanded. Yeah. Oh, is it the council took action on that earlier this year to disband it. Okay. I must have missed that meeting. So,

I'm sure if anyone Dave Wally would know where that sign would be. Yeah. I don't have an answer on the sign, but I can back Dave Wley is probably uh I think a good source. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I can share a little bit of information vaguely related. Um, back last year, Anne Schamper and myself were working on the general history of that and we made a submission to the state division of historical resources

to see whether it could be whether it would meet the requirements for being listed as a state historical site. Well, I got an answer back um three, four weeks ago. I tried to send it to the folks on this commission. I couldn't do that. My email, for some reason, is blocked. I could get it to art, I think, and a couple of others, but the state has agreed that it meets the requirements for listing, and I believe from a communication I had yesterday that town council might be looking into it with Sean. Basically, if they they have to actually agree, the town has to say, "Yes, we want to be listed." And if they say that, then it opens up some potential for funding for things like um maintenance, restoration, any like thing like that when the money's available.

All I've done or all I can do as a private citizen is just say, "Here's what we think it is. Do you agree?" And they've basically said, "Yes. be interesting to see where the council takes that. I see, you know, I'll look at the two double uh sides of that is it's wonderful to have it as the historic building uh end of it for the town's history and everything else with it, but the other end of the is it brings a lot of complications upon a lot of restrictions than what we're able to do with the building, use the building sometimes and financially sometimes what you're able to do with it.

Absolutely not. There's a big there's a if you look at the state website for that if you get it listed and then you decide in two years time oh we aren't interested anymore I want to flatten it all you do is tell the state take it off the listing interesting you're completely free the only caveat is if you have taken money from the state to do something to it right then you probably got an incumbrance but I'm not sure what It is right. But actually the act of listing it doesn't encumber it. Kelly, I just want to note this this is scheduled for discussion in August with the council.

Yeah, I I know someone uh the I forget her name now, the person that coordinates the materials, she contacted me yesterday or the day before and said, "Could I send her some Yep. So, you should be seeing that agenda soon in the next couple days." I thought it might just be of interest to this Yeah, it's interesting body that at least the thing it meets the requirements the requirements. That's interesting. Okay, I'm also open for discussion. Uh I've been driving by the town forest and I don't know how many years ago it was. Kent Allen uh Yes.

Yeah. planted the American chestnut trees right across the street from the historical society. Yep. Well, they started getting a little ratty. And if you notice, if you drive by, they're starting to clean up a little bit. I I couldn't help myself. I started trimming it cuz they needed trim, but I haven't finished it. Dave must have taken the pile of stuff that I had and either Dave or Mac took it and got rid of it. But I probably should have come here and asked permission first. But if you go by, you'll notice manager, huh? Or the town manager. But come here first because we have control.

Although the forest falls under the town manager's management control. It's in the historic district also. So that's where the uh I think I think you're good, Jim. Am I good? Am I okay? I think you're good. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I was worried we were seeing the cutter again. You know me. New cutter. Oh yeah. The midnight clipper there. Cutter. Remember that? Oh yeah. Jesus. That was only one one year I think. Yeah. Only one year. It was just during this. Yeah. But it was like repetitive, right? Kept happen. All of a sudden you walk in there and you see these trees. Jesus. So all right.

I think Alsite had some cameras out there too. Perhaps anything significant was in the photos. Another one. I have another thing. When we have alternates, is there anything I can read and or sit on one or two meetings to see what we do? They come in like cold turkey, don't they? They seem to okay things. They do. I don't know that we really have like a uh training program, so to speak, for any of the the town boards. You just kind of come in and start learning and hopefully on the job training. Yeah. But they sit in on I think I sat in on two meetings just to get a you know a feel of what we do. I think I think that's optional for I mean people who ask ask me they're interested I say attend a meeting anyway. One of the make sure you want to do it first.

Yeah. So that would help you know so be on a meeting and saying oh wow look what they like and this and that and all that. Okay another one is road names heritage is responsible. Did you know that? Do you remember that? I think that might have been changed though because of 911. Yeah, 911 has changed the whole thing. So, the state's in control. Yeah, the state controls all the street names. Cuz years ago, we had someone from the fire department come in and talk to us about it and say, you know, any family names or suggestions and and such. So, then they must have to do with checking with 911. They have to go through there's a process it goes through.

Yeah. Yeah, cuz 911 doesn't want any redundancy or anything anymore. Everything's going to be very clear and concise. We we had to change a number of street names because of the similarities. So, but the builder that came up with crank and log makes me ill. Well, it's happened. So, no, I put in a list. I really did. I went to the LFD. It took me a while to put different ones because I know Marilyn Ham had a had a list. I think that's what went with them also. So when it when it 911 first started, right, maybe they ran out, but but any more names send sent to them. They uh we do all the submission to the uh been the LFD guy. That's

911 systems. How long ago was this? But I did it. Yeah, quite a few years. I'm guessing my list. Not Oh, sorry. Oh, no. Because 911 because 911 has taken over quite a while. to I don't know I don't think I can answer that one. You need you haven't entered yet. You need to enter it.

I have comment as uh pertaining to Jim's um common areas of the town common. Um as you had said we it falls under the historical area for the heritage commission. Um the new area that we had cut out next to the common it's getting pretty muddy. Uh, I don't know how often the town goes and seeds or maintains that area. I know we maintain pretty well the the main part of the common, but that new area that we cut out, I don't know how often we maintain that because it's getting pretty muddy. I know it's it's mowed, but it's always been wet. Yes, that was part of where we had the drainage issues.

Well, we had the drainage issues in the main area of the common, which is why we spent a good deal on the main area. It did help that part a little bit, but it always seems like uh you know several days before old home day we have some uh rain all the time in old home day that you can sink down in that spot. So I think it needs more of an extensive drainage system, but you can talk to John Troier. He's got good handle on my wife was just noticing last night at the concert on how muddy it was last night. I think we aggravated it a few years ago where the cars park. There used to be a drain that went back into the woods there. Yep.

And that was all filled in to make the parking area parking. So now you've got the water is being forced to stay in the common. Well, we had gone through the the whole process all was all redone. Yeah, the drainage in there that when Yianniski was here, he was the one that designed that whole system. We didn't have the money that to do elaborate system that he thought would work better, but we had what we had. So, yeah, it used to there used to be a sort of a shallow BM when But you it used to be wet right in front of the band stand. So, when you stand, you know, at the concert,

you get soggy feet. Oh, but that's pretty much correct at the time. That's correct. Yep. Yep. Y and the pipe, those drains all go underneath. Yes. That driveway into They go back the other side. They did French drains under used to run down beside the oldest used well that's in there. There's a whole underground network there that that new area cut out. I think we just need to have someone take a look at it. Yeah. At least, you know, do some laser lines like crunching around the outside of it. Some may have to change the pitch or something cuz it kind of swells. I think I noticed DPW might help it.

Did DPW do that stuff or did we have an outside? I think we had Didn't we have Continental do it? Might have been a mix of DPW and Continental. I think they had the contract I think though to when they was redone. I don't know because I think DPW put in the drive the the emergency entrance there. Yes, that was that was a Dave Woolly Enterprise. Yeah, remember he actually came before us to talk about that. Y but yes, it's it's still a problem. Yeah. Yeah, someone should look at it. I think we need to build it up.

Yeah. Or maybe we can get an opinion out of of Dave or have some some future be. Have Dave look at it. Yeah. See what he thinks. Okay. He'll tell you. I can I can send an email. Yeah. Ask Dave what his thoughts are. If uh he's probably already thinking about it if it's if it's, you know, getting muddy all the time, especially during public events. But it has it's always been muddy there. Yeah. And there's a drain there, too. I think since we cut it out, it's just seeing a lot more use. I don't know if it's too hot. I don't know. I Okay.

The other thing, too, is is I I noticed is that the underbrush where Kent cleared up starting to regrow. So, I think that I don't know what kind of equipment Dave has, but we get a grub mower in there or something to cut that down. Cut it. Yeah. It'll be a pity to lose it. I mean, Kent did a fantastic job in there, right? I mean, Kent was all Yep. physical. Oh my god. Yeah. Y I tried to help him a couple of times, but I'm way past doing anything now. I get it. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. We even had a couple of goats in there at one time. Yeah, we did. And someone complained that cuz there was a little

Yeah. stuff coming out of the goat's nose. Someone complained was the end of that. They weren't eating the right stuff. They eat, you know, I don't think they're touching the bittersweet. Idea, but it didn't quite work out. Everything. So, oh yeah. Siding off your house. They'll eat your flowers. Yeah. Send send a note to Dave Bullley and uh or even to John Fraier also because John John's the uh engineering the whole drainage system with with the autos. Yeah. Okay. You're right though. If we let that go that' be a crime.

I know I know both of them have a strong interest in it anyway because I think John walked through there during his uh Oh, he does. lunch break. Yeah, we're used to anyway. All right. Any other other business? Okay. Uh I'll open the floor for public input. There is no public present. Quite a crowd. Yeah. Line up. Line up here.

All right. Uh final item on the agenda is a non-public session uh for consideration of legal advice from town council. uh excuse me, from town legal counsel. Um because this is uh legal advice, it does qualify for RSA 91- A um in order to facilitate close session. Yes, please. If you could be more specific.

Yeah, Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion that we go into non-public session. Uh, according to RSA 91- A3, Roman numeral 2, item L and item L. I I try to keep up because the legislature keeps adding things on here, but it's consideration of legal advice provided by legal counsel either in writing or orally to one or more members of the public body even where legal counsel is not present. So, uh we we need a second. We need a second. Second. Yes. Second. Okay. Can we turn the cameras off? So, we're actually going to move

Oh, we're going to go into Senate C. So I made the motion and Ted did the second. Seconded by Ted. We'll have to have a roll call vote. Roll call vote. So why Dave? For going to the not public. So just so I call Glazier. Okay. I Arthur Rug. I Chris Kenny. Hi S. Joy. I T Holmes. I Jim Butler. I David Ellis. Okay. Motion pass.