Board of Trustees - Special Meeting

Obviously, [laughter] I'm not We're actually very It's six o'clock. Should we get started? All right.

I'd like to call to order this Town of Frasier Board of Trustees special meeting on Wednesday, October 29th, 2025 at 6 PM. Can I have a roll call, please? Katie Fischer, Adam Clickland, Peggy Smith, Julie White, Liz Gregory, Katie Souls, and Brian Circenick. Um, could I have an approval of the agenda, please? So moved. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I. I. Any opposed?

Okay, moving right along. All right, so we are here with one topic to discuss. Thanks for everyone that has arrived. Um discussion possible action regarding ordinance number 527 imposing a temporary moratorum on land use applications in the business zone district and declaring an emergency. Um Garrett to speak. I do want to kind of outline some uh format for tonight. Um in our planning commission meeting we we didn't give fair treatment to everybody. Um I don't think everyone got to speak as much as they wanted to. We also want to keep this meeting moving along and you know um not here all night. So uh I'm going to ask that everyone follow follows these ground rules. Um every person interested in speaking is allowed 5 minutes which includes back and forth with the board should that occur. Uh you do not get additional time if there's back and forth. Um, also audience members cannot return to the podium to clarify any discussion items that the board is discussing in between audience comments. Um, after every person interested in speaking has spoken once for 5 minutes, I will ask the board if they would like to give people more time. Um, if the consensus is yes, everyone in the audience will have the opportunity to speak again for another five minutes. Um, this will continue until the board feels they have enough information from the audience. Um, I do ask that people um do their best to not repeat themselves um or other people's comments. If you do want to cite other people, that's great. Um that'll be noted for sure. Um but I will start cutting people off if they are being repetitive. Um also um if people pursue a negative path of fingerpointing and or insults, I'll I'll cut you off at that

point as well. Um, and then I just ask that all speakers stay on topic. Um, and that's that's uh how I want this to go tonight. So, I think everyone will have ample time to say as much as they they'd like. I just want to keep it flowing so that it's not dominated um by a few people. All right. So, uh Garrett, why don't you lead us off? Thank you, mayor and board. I'll just get my presentation going here. Um Garrett Scott, Frasier Town Planner. Uh the ordinance before you this evening, ordinance 527, uh would enact a temporary uh development moratorum uh for properties in the business zone district. So speaking to some of the background and and purpose behind why this ordinance is before you all um various planning commissioners and uh trustees have raised concerns regarding recent development proposals in the business zone district um including predominantly residential uses. Um you know right now the town is nearing completion and nearing adoption of a new updated comprehensive plan. Some of the goals uh included in that comprehensive plan relate to promoting mixeduse development, smallcale neighborhoods serving retail and development that expands our sales or lodging tax revenues. I also want to note that currently our regulations in the business zone district allow multif family residential dwellings as a permitted use by right. Um whereas single family and duplex residential are permitted as a conditional use. Furthermore, there's no requirement uh for commercial uses to be built in the business zone district.

So, for those reasons and for the concerns raised by the planning commission and board, um staff has been directed to to provide this ordinance. So, in summary, what this ordinance would do if passed this evening, it would enact a temporary six-month moratorum on the submission, acceptance, review, processing, public hearing, and approval of certain land use applications for properties that are currently in the business zone. I do want to note that this moratorum would not apply to certain administrative approvals such as an addition to say an existing commercial building uh that's zone business. This moratorum would also not impact um a couple recent development approvals uh that have have gone through the public hearing and approval process with our planning commission and board and I'll speak to those uh momentarily. Um, but first to better orient ourselves, this is a map of the zoning zone districts in Frraasier. Properties in the business zone are this dark red almost maroon color. Um, so it it contains a mix of properties that are already developed as residential uses such as uh the Twin Rivers condominiums or the Sun River condos. Um, our large commercial shopping centers such as the Safeway and Murdoch's areas. um and and the um sanitation district ponds to the south. Um but there are several significant largely undeveloped or underdeveloped properties in the business zone district. Um and I'll I'll speak to some of those here um in my presentation. So, um, going back a couple years, um, this development, um, the Riverview Condos was one that was approved by the

board back in in 2020. Um, it did receive a, uh, a 9-month plat extension, but, ultimately, the plat was recorded in 2022, and staff's determination is that development of this site could proceed um, as in accordance with this approved plat. Um, you know, this site is directly off of Highway 40, uh, between the commercial building that currently has a flooring store and a fly fishing shop. And it's also right next to those, um, uh, water and sanitation district owned ponds. Um, so again, residential use right off of Highway 40. Um, this I I do want to note that again, this development um, would be allowed to proceed even if the moratorum is enacted. um it it would be allowed to proceed to a building permit phase and and ultimately develop um even while the moratorum is active. Uh another recent development shown here the ascent condominiums uh this is on the site of and adjacent to the existing exports uh retail building. Um so just to summarize this development proposal that that current exports building does have two residential units. Um as well as the retail space. Um this approved site plan would convert that entire building to residential uses. Uh it's proposed to have 10 residential use uh units or eight new units. This site plan also included a new 17 unit building adjacent to the exports building. So in total uh would create 25 new residential units. Um the site plan and plat for this development were approved earlier this year by the board on April 2nd. Um so it

is still within its duration of approval and if the applicant pursues uh you know recording the plat and pulling a a building permit even while the moratorum is active they would be allowed to do so. I would also note that the site plan and plat if they are not acted upon, you know, if the plat is not recorded, if if building permits are not pulled, um that one-year approval is currently set to expire April 2nd of next year, which would occur during the moratorum period. Um however, the applicant can request an extension to their duration of approval. Um that extension must be granted by the board. Uh but ultimately if that extension is needed, town staff would ultimately support that and and bring a recommendation of that extension to you all recognizing that this development has already gone through that public hearing and approval process. Speaking to a couple sketch plans that the town has received and reviewed in the past uh year, this property uh known as OVR5 uh previously referred to as a summerall parcel. Um staff received a sketch plan um for 100 residential units on this property um in June of last year. The planning commission reviewed this sketch plan last August. Um so again just an example of a property within our business zone district where a a conceptual plan was provided to the town depicting um entirely residential uses. And lastly and most recently uh the sketch plan for Meer lot one um another property in the business zone district.

Uh this sketch plan depicted uh a majority residential uses uh 228 units in total um as well as a uh uh 6,000 square foot commercial building proposed at the corner of County Road 72 and Elk Creek Drive. Um the planning commission reviewed this sketch plan uh just two months ago in in August. So that is the kind of recent history of you know land use approvals and conceptual plans within our business zone district. I now want to speak to the nature of the ordinance itself and and first I want to talk about uh temporary development moratoriums. Um what this map depicts is again not an exhaustive um sample but kind of a a a general sample of various counties and municipalities here in the state that have enacted temporary moratoriums on land use applications, land use approvals in the past 10 years. I recognize that the text is probably a little difficult to read, but the point of this is that it it spans it kind of runs the gamut from large cities on the front range like Denver and Aurora um smaller municipalities um such as Buista or Salida uh hot sulfur springs here in Grand County um and and counties themselves can enact these moratoriums such as Boulder County and Park County in in recent history. Um, I also want to note that the vast majority of these moratoriums were passed as emergency ordinances. Uh, the one exception out of these that I could find was Boulder County. Um, they they passed it um September of 2024 and it became effective in January of this year. So, they did allow a 3month time period for these applications. I think

it was specific to single family residential properties above a certain size and un unincorporated Boulder County. Um but again, all the other examples that I could find and that are shown here were passed as emergency ordinances. And the reason being is that um again, I'll speak to this more in a bit, but to pass an ordinance as an emergency ordinance simply means that it takes effect immediately. And when you're evaluating potential changes to regulations that affect these land use applications, having a gap of time between when the moratorum is passed, and when it becomes effective simply creates this window where land use applications could come in, be processed, reviewed, and potentially even approved while new regulations are being considered. So it it effectively just undermines the intention of that ordinance itself. So again, just to further emphasize, um, you know, the the emergency designation of this ordinance isn't, you know, an emergency in the sense of a a natural disaster or a state of emergency. Um, but again, it's it's simply to uh designate that the purpose of this ordinance would be undermined if not immediately effective. And in the case with this ordinance, the immediate effectiveness of this ordinance is needed so that um again there's no land use applications processed under our old regulations and that the town is able to evaluate new regulations that uh could help mitigate any potential harm to long-term viability of the town in terms of sales and property tax revenue generation associated with future development on these properties in the business zone.

I also want to note that here in Frraasier, the town has passed many emergency ordinances. This is just a sampling of a few, ranging from things such as adopting the state's model traffic code, um moratoriums on medical and retail marijuana facilities while the town worked to enact regulations related to those uses. um and and things like water conservation measures. Um a quick search of our um history of ordinance revealed around 20 emergency ordinances that the town has passed since our incorporation. So emergency ordinances are a commonplace tool recognized by state law um that many municipalities and counties utilize for a variety of purposes. So in conclusion, staff ultimately recommends that you all approve this ordinance and specifically approve it as an emergency ordinance so it becomes effective immediately. Um, in the months that follow, while this moratorum is in place, town staff will hold a series of workshops and discussions, certainly with the planning commission and likely with you all, with the board of trustees as well, um, and certainly the public, uh, to evaluate potential changes that could be made to our regulations in the business zone district. I also just want to say that it is staff's firm commitment that any new regulations if ultimately adopted. Uh those new regulations would be made effective within the six-month moratorum period or sooner so that there is not a need to extend this moratorum. Uh I stand for any questions that you may have and thank you for your time and attention. That's a question.

So Garrett, how common is it for for municipalities to allow residential development within a business district because that seems like contradiction. Sure. I I may ask Allan to speak to this a little bit. Um but we did give a presentation to the planning commission just last week where Allan and I pulled some um preliminary research into other municipalities. Um the other ones here in Grand County, a couple peer um CASS Colorado Association of Skitown Communities as well as a couple examples of larger municipalities on the Front Range. And by and large um it is common for municipalities to have a zone district that allows commercial uses but prohibits residential uses. What is more typical is maybe what we have where multif family is allowed as a use by right in addition to commercial. Um, and I will also say what is also very common is um certain requirements on on a a certain amount of commercial uses in these zone districts. Kind of similar to our requirements that are already part of our Riverwalk zone regulations for ground floor ground floor commercial uses on uh certain street frontages and things like that. That's that's very common in in other municipalities. Yeah, I don't really have any specifics to add. Um the presentation from last week in the staff report included um like a an inventory of some local communities, Cran County, Summit County, and a few other ones. And it was a pretty wide range of examples of zone districts that prohibit it outright. Those were maybe more limited. And then I think the bull was ones that allowed it with some additional specific requirements on top of, you know, what

otherwise would have been allowed in like a straight multifamily or or just standard residential zone district. But but we could reszone like the Summerall property is zone business, which doesn't make sense to me because it's right in the middle of the Grand Park, right? that could be reszoned to residential, I assume, right?

I I'd have to refer to our code as far as town initiated reszonings of properties. There are certain stipulations around that. Um, off the top of my head, it deals with um certain acreage and certain number of properties that have to be reszoned at the same time. I'm not I I can verify here momentarily. I'm not sure if we could reszone just that summerall OVR5 parcel by itself, for example. Again, if it was a townled resoning, if it's a property owner resoning, that's that's different. Alan, you just mentioned a staff memo that was provided. I was that to the planning commission,

right? Yeah, that was last not provided to us. I I I'm kind of uneducated on this topic at this point in time. All I've seen is the ordinance twice at the last board meeting and this meeting. Um I I don't know. It makes me question the process or if if we're not being provided. It seems like this is a topic that should have had discussion uh a broader discussion. Um I I don't know how we got to this point and I'm I'm kind of confused by that.

I I think that's a fair um point to make. You know, I think from staff's perspective, uh maybe just the fact that there is overlap in the membership of the planning commission and board, um it's maybe recognized that that overlap is meant to help facilitate maybe some of that knowledge sharing and discussion. Um I I will say though that um again as we evaluate these potential changes uh we are certainly willing and and would welcome joint meetings with both bodies so that um the board you know as the final authority that approves any changes to our land use regulations is involved in those conversations early on. I would also just caveat that the discussion that we had last week with our planning commission was a very high level one. We simply provided some you knowformational research on zoning regulations that are on the books in other municipalities. Um that is available for anyone's reference, the board and the public certainly. But I I do apologize for not

I don't receive the planning commission's agenda. I I've had a threeminute conversation on the phone about this. Sure. And and that's my background education. You can log in to the website. You can log into the website and download their packet and look at the information that's in there. But we can be proactive as well with something with this kind of gravity that involves all of us is my point. I I'm kind of taken back by my ignorance, I guess. Fair enough.

Um, I think all of this kind of presented itself as we worked through, you know, the master plan and then we get to budget time and we start looking at sales tax revenues and property tax revenues. And so all of a sudden it becomes kind of apparent that we're running a business in this town and the business is based on sales tax. It's not on property taxes. Um, we have been privileged to host the hospital, the rec center, the movie theater, the school, the library, fire department, and potentially the police department in the future. Um, so with all of those not taxpaying entities, that's we're providing a service for the community at large. And we really have to be careful about how we move forward because we have a tremendous amount of residential on the books that could be developed and if we all of a sudden take what we have as commercial and turn it into residential, it goes away forever. If it was a shopping center like Murdoch's and we decided to tear it down and build something else, we could do that. But you can't do that once it's houses. It's owned by individual people. So, um I think it's to me I would like to spend 6 months working with the community, understanding what they want, what makes sense for the community at large. And if it turns out that at the end of this exercise, everybody decides that uh the 372 residential units in 6,000 ft of commercial space is the best and highest use for that particular parcel, then that would be approved. But I don't

think that it has to be an emergency at this point. Um I it's not the last buildable project c property in town and there's Clark has had the Elk Creek condos which is 46 units ascent uh condominiums 25 units along Condos 204 units the village at Grand Park 184 units West Mountain filing uh number one 79 residential units all of those are in the pipeline have been approved and are ready are shovel ready. So, I am not buying this as an emergency because we don't have a place for anybody to live. There's lots of opportunities for the approved projects and he also has 462 residential units in for approval in Buyers Peak Ranch. So he's not bored and you know it gives us an opportunity to evaluate what's best for the community at large and work with our other partners, the town of Winter Park and and all of these entities that we host on how we make this community work for everybody. I guess I I I question our adherence to our economic model it being so dependent on sales tax. We have probably $3 billion worth of development approved between the annexation investing. Um and that's at today's level. I I I I I've always thought that we should be looking at property tax to support things that support our properties and our and that includes businesses and residences. So, you know, I think in time we we should be adjusting our economic model to meet the times as well. So, uh, I I'm I

fear that we're so dependent on sales tax and that we keep going to sales tax and that that makes things like this happen. I think we need to look at our books in general and say, hey, what are the markets? I mean, when you have three billion dollars, and I'm estimating that that's redevelopment and 2,000 units in Grand Park, sorry, at probably a million plus per unit at today's value. That's a lot of money we're leaving on the table. And so, I I I don't know. I'm uh I'm questioning some things bigger about what we do, but because this is the result of what we do. Well, we're not asking for an increase in sales tax from the businesses.

Yeah, but we're asking to protect the commercial space uh when we're not even at a critical mass. There's buildings. We're not talking about doing this tomorrow or next week. I'm talking 6 months, 6 years, 10 years, 25 years. And I am as well.

So, the the reality I think is we have 5.88 88 mills and that's our tax basis. We are sadly the host of two metro district communities that take the majority of the sales tax revenue. If we put something on the ballot that says we want to include taxes to 10 mills, I don't think it's going to pass because Grand Park is paying 50 mills and rendevous is paying 24 mills now. So, we made that decision a long time ago to let the metro districts in. And what the ultimate problem is that that tends to squeeze any revenues for schools, fire stations, anything because people look at their property tax bill and they don't think, "Oh my god, the town of Frasier is rich."

That's what they think. No, I I I think the rec district and the schools district, but they they don't understand that the majority of it in these metro districts is going to the developers. I mean, I I I kind of agree property tax probably should be higher than it is, but that would have to go to the voters in a referendum, and no one's I don't think anyone's going to vote for a prop tax increase at this point. I don't see that happening anytime soon. The other thing that concerns me, and maybe this is really hypothetical, but what happens if say Safeway or Murdoch left Frasier? We wouldn't have anything. I mean, it would be disastrous.

I mean, could that happen? Maybe. Not. Probably not anytime real soon. We're out for a year. Yeah. Exactly. So, we need to protect ourselves. Yeah. I think I was making the argument for property taxes. It justified [clears throat] both of us. [laughter] Garrett, what does the timeline [clears throat] look like as far as when we can start these conversations? Like I'd like to get this moving as quickly as possible.

Yeah. Again, so as as uh Trustee Quickland mentioned, you know, this ordinance was brought to the board two weeks ago. It was not acted upon. Um the intention was to initiate, you know, these discussions around potential changes to our regulations immediately after the adoption of that ordinance. And even though the ordinance wasn't adopted two weeks ago, we still initiated the discussion last week with the planning commission. So I would say the discussion has been initiated. It's already underway and staff is committed to continuing it during the six-month um moratorium period if if enacted. So, how are we looking on the um final for the comprehensive plan?

What date will that be? We have a date on that.

So, the current schedule, we do have uh a bit of a change from what was last communicated to the board. Uh I forget what meeting that was at when I uh spoke to you all about that timeline. with the original intent of getting adopted before the end of the year. Um we are now pushing that out to February with the main reason to allow ample time for public comment and review. So the current schedule has us publishing the draft plan at the end of next week. It will be reviewed by the planning commission uh and and open for public discussion. We will allow public comment to be taken on the plan through the month of November into December. Um and then over Christmas, New Year's into early January, town staff will work to um take in consolidate and uh read through those comments, uh make updates as needed to the plan, and then bring it back to the planning commission in January for a recommendation of approval and adoption, and then the board would adopt it in February. So, a bit of a delay to, you know, what was previously communicated, but again, still forthcoming.

Okay. Good.

I'll save I'll save some comments until after we open it up to the public, but um are you guys ready? All right. So, just a reminder, we'll do a round of five minutes for anybody that wants to speak and then we'll discuss if we want to do another round of five minutes and keep doing that until we feel feel like we've got it nailed down. So, yeah, go ahead. I know Quinn Frasier, I got a hand out approach. So, to Adam's question about is this meeting a legal meeting? I take that. Just letting you know as this may or may not be a legal meeting based on how you guys did it from the advertisement on November 5th for the record.

Just thought you might want to look at this before the vote.

Give a copy to our attorney also. Do you have an extra one? Great. Thank you. Oh, I do have an extra. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Um, I just want to make sure you guys look at uh the section about middle of the page where it says, "Furthermore, under CRS18-8-44, official misconduct is a secondderee offense." This gives up your immunity. So, if there is a lawsuit that this meeting is a violation due to how you got to this meeting from the executive session you guys had in your planning commission on August 27th, that seems like you guys talked about some stuff you weren't supposed to talk about. Um, but I would be very careful how you vote tonight, just so you know. Uh, what I really want to talk to you guys about is, uh, being a resident of Frasier since 1979 and being on the board, uh, for 12 years, this subject was brought up multiple times. And the Meer properties were considered not valuable commercial space. Multiple times. The valuable space is closer to Winter Park, and that's Grand Park's north section. The reason it's valuable is we can get the tax dollars from Winter Park. We can get it from their tourist, their residents. What Frasier's missing on this end of the valley is residents. We need more houses, more people living here year round. That's why we chose to spend what was it 40 million or 64 million? I keep getting confused on our workforce housing project that we're doing in town. This is what we're supposed to be working on. What Clark's bringing to the town is exactly what the town needs in the right area. Look at Vicious Cycle. It's one of the most popular bars in town because it's surrounded by residential housing. Uh Katie Fischer's Bar is one of the nicest bars in town because it's surrounded by residential housing. We can all walk to it. We can walk home and we're safe. We don't have to drive. And Brian, you talked about being rude and making bad comments. I would like you to tell your trustees to do the same because as a resident of Frasier, I don't feel that we're a third world country, Peggy. We've worked hard our whole lives and we've tried very hard to make this a very pleasant for

people like you to come to. So calling us a third world town was quite rude the last week. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, who wants to go next? Good evening everyone. Randy Glady Jones Grant Park. All right. So coming out of the planning commission meeting, the biggest the crux of why we're pushing this is driving sales tax revenue, which makes a lot of sense. Grand Park is currently and has been currently trying to bring on 40,000 square feet of commercial real estate on a north end of or south end of Frraasier, north end of Grant Park there. We all call them the yellow buildings, but the village at Grand Park, right? And if it just seems very convoluted to me that if this was a very which it makes a lot of sense, absolutely. We need sales tax. We need businesses. Why? It it just doesn't make sense to me. It's just kind of unclear why we haven't turned on 40,000 square feet of commercial real estate, right? And it's a lot would really add to the tax base and could have been adding to this tax base for years. And that's okay. We just want to make sure that we're consistent and congruent as a town board and as citizens who our constituents who elect you guys are consistent in delivering affordable housing, housing in general, right? Very, very important. But then ordinance 527 is really meant to block housing. I mean, that's clear. It's what the ordinance says. and then to use the ordinance through the vehicle by declaring a state of emergency. We all agree there's no emergency and that we're using that vehicle to make it immediate active immediately active, right? And nothing against the town. You guys have been doing excellent job on what's going on in North End. Excellent

job on the Riverwalk District. All that stuff would be amazing. It's going to be amazing. really excited to see it very much so. But approaching this and a lot of the constituency, I mean, I've been to a few planning meetings, there was a lot of public comment and to your point, Adam, you know, it's it's interesting that you guys aren't as informed that this sort of was slid in into one meeting table because there wasn't a quorum and then kind of came up again in the planning, which a great presentation by the town planners. Absolutely. But hearing that you guys aren't even aware that what's allowed in current other municipalities and a lot of those municipalities are very very different than what we are. It's good to use referential data like that but very important not to miss what it is. We got to compare apples to apples, right? Arvvada, not apples to apples. I mean, maybe Kremling, which again, they allow by right multif family units. It's allowed. And anything that's a comparative analysis to what's close to us, they allow this, right? And and it's a shame that some of you guys didn't see that presentation. was well put together and it really vast vast overlay of things that have nothing to do with us, not pertinent to us, and things that are are towns and municipalities that are very much closer to what we are. And all of those municipalities allow this mixeduse thing. And then of course, we all know that the more housing we bring on 372 units particularly, what does that do to high country houses, one-bedroom, $2,000 unit? it drops in price because we're providing brand new high quality well-built units, right? So, really, really important to understand why I guess at 40,000 square feet commercial

real estate really close. Tower went up today. I don't know if you guys saw that. It's awesome. Really cool to see.

Uh but but again, to we're also entitled to 300,000 square feet of commercial and we're private land developers. If there was demand for that commercial real estate, we would meet it. It is our job to meet it. We haven't even touched on the available square footage between Winter Park and Frasier. I mean, I have a rough estimate of over 100,000 square feet of commercial real estate that's currently on the market. Some of which that has been on the market for years. So taking this all in the big picture, not sure this is the right vehicle. Absolutely understand the sales tag push. It's very important. It runs our town. Again, let's partner on this thing. We're we're experts at what we do and a lot of the stuff that we're bringing to the town will definitely benefit and drive a lot of the sales tax revenue. Thanks, guys.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Who wants to go next? Is there anybody online?

If anybody online would like to speak, please raise your hand. Yeah. Uh Steph, you can go ahead.

Hi guys. Um, I am Stephanie Best and I own Blacktie Ski Reynolds and I am just here to oppose this moratorum. Um, I feel like right now I have an employee that cannot get in. I'm trying to get him in from New England and my employee housing is full and he cannot find a place. And so we need the housing. We do not need empty commercial space to sit there. As the previous speaker just mentioned, we have so much the arrow unit, the 40,000 going in at the village. Um, I sort of I'm just going to say this. I kind of feel like this is because you don't want the competition with the uh park and 40. What is that project? Is that St. Louis or something?

Yeah. I that's I that's what I truly feel is that the town does not want the competition to that project and I I think that's wrong. Thank you.

Thanks Steph. That was brought up in another uh letter that the board got as well. We did receive some really well written letters um just to to let the public know if they haven't seen them. But um yeah uh we'll keep going. Are there more people that want to speak? Hi, I'm Kathy Scoffield. Um, good evening to the mayor and the board of trustees. Um, I am here to oppose the ordinance. I wrote a letter um today um in great detail, but I just wanted to um come forward verbally and share uh my opposition for this. Um I think that um the ordinance is an unnecessary measure. Um, and I feel as though because there are no applications that are currently being presented that it is a preemp preemptive um, ordinance that is unnecessary and sends a very disturbing message about Frasier being not open to development, not open to housing, um, and frankly, uh, closed for business. So, um I also wanted to just say in the ordinance itself um where it says excuse me that the uh ordinance is necessary for the immediate preservation of public health safety and welfare and this ordinance should be therefore become effective upon adoption consistent with CRS blah blah number. Um, I think that the emergency measure is an abuse of power. I don't see any need to do this if there are no applications pending.

I've owned I owned a property in Frraasier since 2006. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else?

Hi, Clark Lipkcom. For the record, um if you don't mind, I'm going to approach with some photos for you all. Maybe share stuck together. You guys have to share. I can share.

So, what I just passed out to you are pictures of properties in Winter Park Frasier that are um vacant today or have space available to lease. Um and many of these have been on the market. I'm not going to re, you know, regurgitate what Parnell touched on, but but I think one of the things that was evident to me u in the presentation at the planning commission and I hope did you all receive my email today and and did any of you get to watch the planning commission YouTube? You you were there, Brian and Peggy, but Brian and Peggy were there, but did anyone else get to watch the planning commission? Okay. Well, I'm going to try not to regurgitate that. Um, but I was hoping that you all would watch it. Um, because it was a meaningful discussion and I think had a lot of uh good things that were touched on. Um, I think this feels very targeted and Peggy, you know, all I heard her just talk about in her comments was Clark this, Clark that. you know, Clark's building this and and that's unfortunate that we have such a divisive relationship and that we can't collaborate um more than what we have done. Um as you all know, I grew up in a small town. My families are in businesses in small towns and I've lived in uh the Colorado Rocky Mountains since I got out of college and I my kids are born and raised here. I run a number of retail businesses here and have uh significant operations as well. And I've studied uh really uh every type of real estate you can imagine in small resort communities and particularly in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado and skitown related. So I have a little bit of experience doing things and and like to study what has worked in other places and also what has

failed in other places hoping that we might avoid certain things and and be able to emulate things that others have done successfully. So what what what I saw at the presentation from the town staff was misguided uh lacked that kind of experience and was comparing us to towns like Arvvada, Wheat Ridge, Golden. Um that over what what's more concerning was a presentation tonight where they spent a whole lot of time talking about what other people in the states have has done trying to justify this non-emergency moratorum. Peggy admitted at the planning commission there's no emergency. Um what I think is truly missing here is um an inventory of what you do have and what is out there. There's no you like if your staff spending all this time studying what others doing, why aren't we studying in our own backyard? And why aren't we looking at every property that's out there? Here's a good start with photos. uh looking at every piece of vacant land that's out there and saying those what I do know is we have a housing crisis. Okay, we've had a housing crisis. You guys declared a housing crisis. You're doing St. Louis landing. That's an interesting comment that you know is this because you're scared of the competition. I would hope that's not it, but that was I hadn't thought about that.

Um and and and that to me is, you know, concerning. Um, I really think you all need to take a step back uh and realize that where we're building housing and and we're building 60 more mill apartments right now. They're under construction. Um, these development projects uh the infrastructure for uh the ascent exports project 4 W.1 and my lot 2 is just about to start. The water sewer is just about to start. It takes we go through a process of getting projects approved. That takes a year. Then you've got to tee up the contractors, etc. We have roughly 5 to 6 months to do work here. This isn't a six-month moratorum. This is 18 months. This is stalling everything out and it's saying we don't need housing. So, as a business owner, I know that the number one thing we need are employees and we need a diverse inventory of housing. And that's what our company is trying to deliver. Peggy touched on a whole lot of projects that we're working on. I don't think my five minutes is up.

It was I'll give you another 30 seconds. I didn't warn you. But Peggy touched on a whole lot of projects that and some of which by the way aren't approved. The village u but that's all about having a diverse uh diverse inventory of residential offerings in housing building housing inventory. You can't create demand for commercial just by mandating it. You'll have stuff sipped. So vote no on this moratorum and then start collaborating. We're open. We'd be glad to coordinate a developer group and have the town staff sit with the developer group. You guys are welcome to sit with them and talk about what can we do together. Thank you.

Thank you sir. Anybody else from the audience? Hi, my name is Mark Gibson. I uh live in Grand Lake. I run a property management firm with uh many properties in in the southern Frasier Valley, which is why I care very much about the the future of this place. I've owned property here since since 96. I think it's uh terrific that you're taking a look at long-term financing. Uh looking at the economic solveny of of the town and and it its services, I can't think of any more important, particularly when you've got a tax system as skewed as it is. But if you're going to go duck hunting, you really need to go where the ducks are. Um if if this this problem is is truly of emergency uh status and we've we've got a tax problem then we ought to do a we ought to do a freeze on everything including every intergovernmental agreement including government including agreements with with the county including St. Louising on down the on down the on down the list. And if you c if it the idea of trying to fix our long-term solveny based on u commercial retail tax simply doesn't meet the smell test. So, let's go back and say, okay, if we've got $3 billion in new capital construction coming in, seems like there's quite a few ducks to

go hunting there. If you can't pass a 10 mil tax, then ask the question, why not? And what's it going to take to get that passed? rather than going off on on some some some narrow freeze, let's look at the let's let's let's look at the whole damn plan in in Toto and come up with a real solution here. Thanks. Thank you.

Anybody else? Hey board, I like the graphics, Clark. Those are beneficial. I think that's a good starting place for our discussion as we move forward and looking at where the ducks are is what people have said that um we need to look at how how this is all going to work and I think this is a good place to start.

Yeah. You know, and and Kathy, to your point about how there's no application in place right now, that makes me feel like what better time to put a hold on applications. Not much is going on. There's clearly a lot of construction happening right now. You know, things are happening and Market Street is looking awesome. Thank you very much, Mr. Lip and the work you've done there. Um, but it does seem like this will create that window where we can where the pressurees off that we can all meet together and work for the best good for the town, for you guys, and for the town and take a look at these other mechanisms and what's going to change. It was interesting. Of course, we all know 2020 basically is what pulled the rug out from under Market Street, everybody coming in. And I can't help but think that the pendulum swings and as it's swinging back, there's people that um will want to go back to shopping locally. And a lot of the people that we bring in from out of town, they're the ones that are going to want to spend that money in local businesses. We'll see. But it gives us an opportunity to all meet and you know six months poof it's going to go by poof. I think it'll be a really good opportunity for the town to get our feet under us. And I can see too for um our town staff that if we were to say, well, you know, we'll wait for another 2, 3 weeks to put this on, then they could be inundated and overwhelmed. And so I support this.

Oh yeah. Is that okay? Fine with me. Sorry if I mis open to it. Then we're going to open up five minutes to everybody. Just

Yes. Just respectfully, I mean, my point about the fact that there are no uh current applications is is not to say, well, now's a good time to put a delay and preemptive strike, so to speak, on further development. I mean, essentially what you're saying by delaying things by six months is that you're delaying things for more than 18 months because we know we have short windows of opportunity to build. Um, and if we're not taking anything else, what we're saying to the investment community and people who might be interested in coming here is don't bother. We're not an easy place to do business with. So, um I think that the the point about stopping and not accepting any new applications says uh you know go elsewhere. Uh so, thank you.

Yeah, thanks for clarifying your respective. Oh, I'm sorry. Behind the crack.

Okay. Well, just really quickly, I'd like to point out that that adding houses um and you guys read my letter, but these people didn't get my letter, so I'm just going to make the point. Uh adding rooftops and adding housing inventory not only helps our businesses with employee base and more people living here, etc. It's helped them generate more revenue. And and similarly, when I came here, Fraser was basically broke. Katie, you were here. Peggy, you maybe had just gotten here. Um like Adam and Katie was here, but literally I can remember meetings run on zero budgets. There's no money coming in. It was only Safeway. City Market's opening. Oh my god, the sky is falling. What are we going to do? Today you have pretty significant fund balances. Okay, your budget's much larger. Your staff's much larger. And that's largely due to Grand Park and Rendevu, the developments that everybody was scared of that have happened and are still happening. As they grow, the town's going to continue to have growth in its sales tax revenue because those people are going to shop at Safeway. They're going to go to Sharkies. They're going to go to the Birdie Lounge. They're going to go to Fischer Bar. Bottom line is adding more people helps our current businesses prosper more. And right now, I think it's hard to be a business owner in this town. I think it's hard to have employees. I think it's hard to generate enough revenue to cover taxes and bills, etc. I think you're way better off to focus on solving housing and get a robust business community going that shows there's demand here. There is no one knocking down doors to go do commercial. So you're going to basically sterilize everything and and 18 months is a long time. Dollars have options. Dollars have options. They will go somewhere else and invest. So come on. I mean, if if you want to do if you want to change your code, if you want to address, you know, how commercial evolves, you got to first recognize you got to have people in a demand. You can't make a demand by just mandating

it. It will sit idle. And the land that we're talking about, there are actually applications pending. The sketch plans for the Meer lots, those have applications. We've gotten full responses on those. So, two of those parcels that are in with full residential that have been fully designed, those have been sitting since 1981. 1981, guys. So, I mean, think about that. It's 45 years. Really? If you think if commercial were viable, it would have been done there, right? So, we got rid of the Forest Meadow Solar Subdivision, changed them to this Bzoning because we thought the flexibility would be important for those parcels. And now we see where there's real demand and need housing and it's a great location for it and we're trying to be stopped. That's not great. So changing the rules when all the money's already been spent on design, etc. Not not good at all from a perspective of outside people looking in or somebody that spent the money doing the design. So again, vote no on this.

See, I have two comments and and two questions. And Clark, if you want to stay at the podium, you've got two more minutes. No, actually. Oh, it's not. No. Um, general comments. Again, I I think we need to diversify uh the town's income portfolio. And secondly, I do think that housing needs to reach a critical mass to support commercial. And my questions actually are for for Garrett. Um, reading the email yesterday, it sounds like this would not be enacted immediately. would be enacted two days ago because there's applications that were submitted yesterday that it would apply to that would be put on pause.

Yeah. So, just to clarify about statements that were made about there are no pending land use applications. Thank you.

That was no longer true as of Monday. Um on Monday, town staff received a submitt for site plans for Meerot one and two. Uh these are the properties uh to the west southeast of the Murdoch Center. Um these site plans combined propose um around 370 residential units and and that 6,000 square foot commercial building. Um so I I just want to clarify town staff when we receive a land use application we have five business days to determine whether or not it it is complete. Um certainly given the time needed to prepare for this meeting, town staff has not yet determined completeness for these site plans for my lot one and two. So if the board chooses to pass this moratorium today, those applications could not be determined complete because that is prohibited through the language of this moratorum and therefore those site plans would effectively be put on pause until new regulations are adopted. If the moratorum does not pass this evening, town staff will determine completeness of these applications and once determined to be complete, they will be reviewed and processed and ultimately brought for approval under the current business zone regulations. So it in in summary, part of the reason of the emergency ordinance, I would argue, is to prevent situations exactly like this. It was a mistake by the town to bring this ordinance forward two weeks ago when it could not be acted upon. In my opinion, that allowed the developer to take the time to finalize these site plans and submit them to the town and somewhat raise the stakes on

this ordinance um and and create this situation. But again, if if the ordinance is not passed as an emergency ordinance ordinance, then it it effectively just undermines the intention of this process, which I think regardless of whether the moratorum passes, town staff will still undertake a review and possible amendment to regulations in our business own district. We will take that process as far as the planning commission and board would like us to take it. uh but the the simple reality is that that process will not be effective without this moratorum because these site plans have been submitted. Okay.

Are there any questions with that? No. Yeah. Um so is that trigger for starting that timeline or defined in code meaning is it subjective? Is it when it's submitted or deemed complete? Uh is that defined in code or is that a subjective decision as far as when the moratorum applies or could you clarify? No, I mean he the applications were turned in two days ago. Yes. And you said you have five days to in because it's still in that five-day period, we can put it on pause. Is that defined in code or is that a subjective decision?

That five business day window is defined in our code. very I understand that but the the trigger for starting the clock I mean to me it seems like when you submit an application that's when the it's submitted if you you could make you could determine its completeness in a day or five days um and that seems pretty subjective u and I'll move on to my last question I'm trying to think about a different approach to this you know if we're working on these code changes is currently can these code changes be uh proposed to us as emergency ordinances so that they can be implemented immediately as they're developed.

Yes, I I will maybe speak to your first point. Yes, the time frame within that five business day window when completeness is determined, I guess you could argue it's subjective. It's ultimately up to the capacity of town staff to intake that application, review the materials and provide that determination, but our code is clear that we have five business days to do so.

Um, and that point where completeness is determined is the point of initiation in the land use review process. That is also very clear in our code. So this five business day window um again when an application is received but not yet reviewed for that completeness um we are at this point where it is not um you know able to be processed at this time. Completeness must happen. Um to your second question yes any uh ordinances that would enact changes to our regulations in the business zone district those could be passed as emergency ordinances. uh it simply requires uh that declaration of an emergency and three4s uh of the trustees uh voting in affirmative to pass that ordinance. And if we're getting close to the end of that six-month period, I think that's certainly something we would look to do so that um we don't have this uh time period where regulations are enacted but not yet effective and then the moratorium ends and you have a window on the back end of the moratorum. It just seems to me that that would been a less uh evasive approach to to bring, you know, to develop these codes and bring them forward rather than just saying kaput. Um I don't know. I those are my comments.

Feel like that would be a little Hold on. That would be I would feel worse about that just based purely on transparency. Um you know you could argue that a moratorium you like it or you don't but at least we're giving 6 months for everyone to give their opinion before we change the code. If we were to just do an emergency code change and I was a land owner, I'd be pretty mad about that if I had zero input. So I don't know. just uh I think the gentleman back there um had Yeah. And and then we could probably do it again.

My name is Kevin Cook. Uh you know, I'm not privy to all the details of, you know, the intricacies of all these things, but I would rise as an hourly worker, as a bluecollar worker, as somebody that lives here in the heart of Frraasier. You know, from my experiences here, the biggest problem that we have is stable housing. I mean, the number of people that I know that are living four deep in a two-bedroom that are paying a significant portion of their income to what amounts to a company town in the way that some of these, [snorts] you know, uh, employee housing agreements are set up. Um, it I think it's unfair. I mean, I've been coming up here for I've lived in Colorado for over 12 years. I've lived in Frraasier for two, and I've been coming into the valley for about the last decade. And I ultimately bought property in Clear Creek County because the building codes were a little easier and the property was a little cheaper. But I've grown to love this valley and this is where I would hope to retire and ultimately spend the rest of my days. But the lack of available and affordable housing is the biggest problem that faces the people that work in this town, that run this town, that supply all the services. I pay $3,200 a month for my rent. You know, that is more than my income can really support.

Yeah.

And I mean, I have to sum it up. I mean, I I basically have to work four jobs and about 80 hours a week to be able to survive. And the number of people that I've seen that because of their housing arrangements are kicked out of their house within 3 days of being fired. It's there, you know, there is a a housing crisis, but there there's also an unspoken homelessness crisis in this county. The number of people that have to live on somebody's couch or in an unspoken agreement that, you know, is honestly inhumane. Um, I mean, there are people living within a thousand feet of this building that are living in third world conditions because we have a housing crisis. And that's that's what drove me to be here today. I've talked to, you know, multiple people who are hourly workers, who are bluecollar workers who, you know, don't really feel comfortable coming into a setting like this and and speaking on this level. But, you know, the guy who's washing your dishes and cooking your food and, you know, serving at your bar may not know where he's going to sleep tonight. And you know, on the other end of that, if we have more commercial development, we have more stable businesses. We have more we have more income. We have more places that people can work. And there's a lot of people that come through here as seasonal workers that would like to be permanent residents. And if we had more commercial business and we had more affordable real estate, we had more affordable rentals, that's only going to benefit the town in the long run. And you know, with whatever your opinion is on Alterara, like this town is it's a boom town. You know, we're we might not be the next Aspen or Veil, but we're right there in that caliber and we need to prepare for the, you know, mass influx of humanity that's going to come with, you know, all the development that's happening on the north end of the resort now. and you know limiting economic activity, economic development,

trying to constrain it through legal means is you know it's anti- business. It's it's anti-freedom. Um you know I think we all want a stable community. We we don't want to exclude people and you know I just I think that anything that would prohibit reducing the price of living here, anything that would reduce you know the the economic activity here is is hurting all of us and thank you for your time and I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you.

Um let me can just clarify something. This is we're not talking about affordable housing here. All the projects that I don't I can't pull up that document you sent. All the projects that been approved, those are market rate housing projects, right?

Yes. So, there's hundreds and hundreds of units that have been approved and you're not building them because there's not those there's not demand. The market's soft. There's I don't know how many units are sitting across that are for sale that um you know aren't moving. I don't see the I don't see the big demand for market rate housing right now. Affordable housing, yes, I see that. But for market rate housing, you know, the market is it's not what it was two years ago or three years ago. Yep. Go ahead.

So, just to address, thanks Lewis for the comments. Um, this is introduce yourself for people. Oh, yeah. Brandy Clety Jung Grand Park U. This is economics 101. Housing reduces prices across the board. How can high country house for a one-bedroom? When was that place built? You guys

built in 1977. I've been in a couple of them. Brutal. charge nearly $2,000 for onebedroom. Now, if we realize, to your point, Lewis, if we realize 337 units within the vicinity of town and even High Country House, let's say, what does that do to High Country House management, all of their the Oh, I could move into Mill Apartments for $1,600 for one bedroom. Oh crap, now we have to compete. Well, now we drop high country house to $1,400 and competition encourages reducing prices on housing across I don't see I don't see housing prices going down.

Of course you do. It's exactly what's happening right now. They're stabilizing. But no, they're they're 20%. My house is listed right now. I've done three three price drops on it. My last showing was in April. I'm taking it off the market because I don't I can't get what I want for it, right? And I'm just sit on it. They're coming down and it will continue to come down if we allow housing to be built. It's a phenomenon. I mean, just take high country. Ascribe to that. I mean, you're not going to fire it, right? You took it off the market. You're not going to give it away. No, of course. We beat We're a for-profit company that's

it's coming down. It's normalizing. It's stabilizing. But I don't see there's going to be a, you know, a huge bottom to the market. I could be wrong, but people aren't going to give away their houses. They're not going to lose money on their houses if they can help it. Sure. Sure. But saying that what we need is affordable housing to restrict market rate housing. I think there's an innate fallacy in that logic because again, economics 101. The more supply we have, the more competition, you have to then compete on price. When you hit price equality, I think we need both.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. No, I totally agree. I totally agree but to say that you know we need affordable housing absolutely but we need housing that is what's driven and then when we have a national a worldwide pandemic then demand goes through the roof if we had been preparing for this let's say the micro cottages over which is not part of the town anymore wish it was but let's just say those things were online that helps buffer that huge spike in demand because there's more units available to compete Right. So if we keep taking this position to be very cautious in letting well be it market rate or affordable housing in general increases the supply which all across the board will bring down the price.

I mean the problem with that is that it takes a while to build to plan and build right and you're always behind the curve. You can't predict what's going to happen in two years. We may have another boom, but we don't know by six months and the developers don't know. So, they have to do their best projection and it's a business risk. You're you're gambling on what you think's going to happen. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong.

Absolutely. But again, what we're talking about here is driving sales tax revenue and a moratorum in the board's eyes is the vehicle to achieve reasonzoning in Bzon districts, right? There is so much commercial. What are we doing? We're just going to create Bob Novak. Unfortunately, wasn't able to be here. He's down in Denver. He's the guy who developed Winter Park uh Arrow, right? Uh the Arrow uh with the commercial on frontage that's been empty for years. And let's learn from what Winter Park did in that circumstance. They required commercial on highway frontage. Highway 40 frontage required it. He went to their uh planning commission three times for a variance to reszone that selling the heck out of the condos. There's one lease there. And again, if we're a for-profit company, if we know there's demand for commercial, we'll do commercial. We know there's demand for housing. That's why we're doing housing. It's there. We'll sell it. And Brian Novak's a great example. Unfortunately, wasn't able to be here, but it's a very salient point. Let's not repeat mistake that our neighbors did.

Thanks, guys. Thanks, Brandon. Uh, let's Can I go to Ann? She's had her hand up for a long time. [clears throat] Better let her know. And Ann Gibson, you can go ahead. unmuted. Did you unmute her? There's another hand raised. Oh, and Ann just unmuted. Go ahead, Ann.

Um, hi and Gibson. Um, I know we all agree that we have a serious housing shortage. Um actually according to the Frasier River Valley Housing Partnership um they do such a great job of doing these housing assessments and they've identified that there's more than a 700 unit gap in rental and homeownership properties. Um, regarding this ordinance, this moratorum, I see that there is so much more to lose than to gain by passing this ordinance. Um, this moratorum will slow or end housing construction. It's going to hurt local jobs and it shows locals that their housing needs are are not important at a time when the community needs more housing and steady momentum. I know that a lot of concerned builders are asking if this moratorum will mean that the town will stall or halt all housing other than their own development. Your own development which is the St. Louising. I believe that we're pretty fortunate to have developers that want to build housing in Frasier. housing that locals and local families will be able to afford. um rather than uh do what other resorts have done where there isn't uh market rate housing a diverse uh inventory of housing in the towns uh you know employees are in Vale um are forced to live in Gypson Aspen locals are commuting from Rifle Telleluride

um they live in Montros um Crest they're in Gunnison. I think this is a project that can make a huge difference in enabling um the economy to grow significantly. Kind of the bottom line here is no more housing plus more empty commercial buildings equals what I think is a a frightening future for Flagure. Thank you. And um there aren't any affordable housing projects on the books aside from St. Louis. So any residential project is market rate, which is a million plus for a condo. None of that is affordable. My understanding is that some of this housing is going to be smaller units and that there will be units available to rent or to buy. I don't know um if they're smaller um but they're all market rate. So no one has applied for an affordable housing project or a workforce housing project. Hey Garrett,

could you explain some of the incentives that we have in place now in our Riverwalk district that encourage um deed restricted units in exchange for and this doesn't necessarily happen for the business district, but it could be a part of the conversation. Sure. Um, and I guess just to clarify, the planning commission and board did enact additional incentives that do now apply to the business zone district. Okay.

As well as highdensity multif family and the riverwalk zone as uh trustee souls mentioned. Um, essentially they allow increases to allowed unit density, maximum building height, reductions to open space, um, parking reductions, things that are meant to help, uh, make developments pencil out when they include affordable housing. Um, and and those incentives are provided when only a percentage of the units in that development are deed restricted for certain income levels. Um, again, this was enacted and made effective earlier this year. Um, I want to say sometime in the summer, so it is still fairly new. We do encourage property owners and developers to research those incentives and take them, you know, uh, attempt to incorporate them into their development. But it is not a hard requirement. And certainly the development proposals that we've seen since enacting them uh are not taking advantage of these incentives. So town staff is certainly willing to modify them or tweak them to make them more attractive.

And again, that's the sort of thing we can take a look at as a as a group and a community in the next six months. You know, I I get people's concerns, but there's a lot on the table for right now. And big picture, we're looking at big picture down the road. Frasier, another 20, 30 years and meeting all these different needs. So, that's what I said.

I guess I'm a little confused because it it comments make it sound like the town is mandating that that we're going to only allow commercial there. I don't think that's what we're saying. I think we're saying pause six months. is figure out what's best for the town and we'll move forward. It's and I don't see the 18month delay. I'm not sure that's sort of hyperbole. I don't think that's you know it's like okay now six month six months become 18 months and okay Clark I know you have comments but that's that's my two cents that the town I don't think we're saying we're not going to allow any residential that you have to put commercial there if there's not a need. I mean that's That's not what we're saying. We're saying put a pause on it for six months. Let's figure out what what's best. And the town needs to make sure, you know, that we pro protect the revenues that we need to to flourish as a town.

I agree with you. And I think that the ascent condominiums are teed up. Can you still turn on? Is your mic still on? It's Yeah. Um the ascent condominiums are teed up. There's 25 units right there. That could keep you busy for the next 6 months. And um we can have a conversation and have everybody come to a conclusion that makes most sense for the community at large. Uh was there another person online that had their hand raised or did they take it down? Okay. Um, I'm going to go to Parnell and then we can go back to Clark.

Thank you. Thank you for the extra time, Mary. I appreciate it. Um, to uh Lewis, as your comments, um, market rate housing, you guys all have this thing that market rate is all million dollar house. It depends on what you build. There's houses in Frraasier that want 1.2 million. They ain't going to get it anymore. There's town homes sitting across the street that are brand new. They ain't getting their 1.6 million. They're struggling to get them sold. And if this truly is an emergency and it's truly an economic emergency and it's just crazy that we're running out of money in the town because we don't have it, then the entire town should go into a moratorum. The Riverwalk district, the housing over here, Clayton Court, all of them. And like Mark Gibson said, there shouldn't be any spending. You guys shouldn't be buying any more buildings. You shouldn't be investing in any more projects. you shouldn't be doing um pump tracks in the middle of a field. That if this really is an economic emergency, you guys should tighten the belts, lower your staff, like eliminate half of your staff on the town and take their wages and bring them to normal wages. You know, a normal town manager makes 90,000 for a town this size. Our manager makes almost twice that. So, if this really is a financial crisis and we're about to lose everything because of one development on how many acres? 20 clerk 20 acres is going to kill the town and we have 300,000 square feet of commercial on the north or the south end of town that we could develop and have that developed. If Peggy would stop fighting it so much, we could probably have had it done already, right? I mean, if you guys are serious about this, be serious because market rate is what people pay. The market has gone down 19% on average in the town of Frraasier. None of you, with the exception of Katie, have a business in the town of Frraasier that relies on people in Frraasier. Brian, you have a

business that operates out of Frraasier, but it doesn't rely on people from Frraasier. A lot of repeat customers from Frasier. You have a lot of repeat customers, but it's not Frraasier. A lot of Winter Park, a lot of everybody else, a lot of tourist, not a lot of people from Winter Park. Peggy, I can show you the data. Julie, you guys won't even call your company Frasier, Real Estate of Frasier. Call it real estate of Winter Park. Your son did a movie festival. Instead of calling it the Frasier Film Festival, which sounds way better to me, everyone was encouraged to call it the Winter Park film festival. So, if you want Frraasier and you really think this is emergency, all of you stand up and say you're going to open a business. Lewis, you going to open a business in Frraasier? Listen, Barney, I don't appreciate you t attacking.

Well, I don't appreciate you guys attacking one person either. That's what you've been doing. Stop it tonight. You've attacked Clark and that's the only person. I didn't attack Clark.

The only reason you guys are looking at this moratorum is because Peggy Smith wants to stop Clark from building a development. That is it. And I guarantee you she's made communications to each of you about why she wants it. You move meetings around. This meeting was originally scheduled for November 5th. You moved it today as an emergency meeting. There is no emergency meeting. This is not an emergency. Peggy even said it at the planning commission. It's not an emergency. We don't need this ordinance. You guys are doing this just to pick on Clark. So, you are picking on one person. Almost all of your meetings are about stopping Clark. Every time I come, when I was on the board for 12 years, it was how to stop Clark. It makes no sense. He's the future of Frasier. He's what we've all wanted since 1979. The gondola, the buses, the businesses being busy. Too many people in town that you can't walk around. That's what we all wanted back in the 70s and 80s. Why? Because there was nobody here and there was no money. And now that you guys got projects where money's coming in, you want to put up a moratorum. Like Garrett said, you guys missed your opportunity to sneak this in because you hadn't even talked to an entire board yet about what you were doing. You used a planning commission to get approval to do it in an executive session, which is illegal. And that's why this meeting is illegal.

And then you moved it from the 5th to today, the 29th. That's an illegal move. You can't do that. You can't just move things around because you want to. Just to be clear, it is fully legal. What has happened so far? We'll see if it gets challenged. But if this is truly emergency, then you should be freezing the town of Frasier from doing anything and you should be freezing the development just like the federal government. You should stop all spending if it's truly emergency. Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead.

Hi, Clark again. Um, so you hear me talk about housing in inventory. You hear me say the word housing inventory and and Lewis, if you'd watched the planning commission or been in our mayor manager meeting this, you would heard heard me talk about diversity and housing and and what we as a company are building, developing and focused on and it allows us to focus on things in different markets at different times and forale real estate right now is not great. We think rentals are really good. We're building uh another Brian you missed the mill apartments that is truly low income. truly low income, 60% AMI average, 30 to 80%. Um, and right next to that, we're building 60 more units right now that are free market. The rents that are modeled in that project are less than your St. Louis landing project. Okay. The beauty of free market, I'm a free market guy, is I'm going to do what it takes to fill my units. Okay, that's the supply and demand that Brandon just touched on. They did a very elegant job on. What I wanted to touch on is uh I wish I could do applications in two months with all the design work that goes into applications. As all of you know, uh we submitted a sketch plan required by staff for Meyer lot 2 in June. We had a planning commission August 27th. We've been designing that project since last year. Okay, last year. It has geotech done this year. Um, all of the engineering work, drainage, architectural design. That stuff doesn't happen in two weeks. My gosh, I wish it could. And if I could do that in two weeks, your staff could get them actually reviewed, approved, and into a board meeting so we could actually plat them and go put in the infrastructure and bada bing, bada boom, we'd have more housing going than we know what to do with. But the cycle of doing this stuff, getting plans approved, takes over a year. So to your point, Lewis, you

should come do what I do. And you would understand that a six-month moratorum that ends next spring and then allows you to submit and then take a year-long process because that's how long it takes now in the town of Frasier to get anything done at least. I have projects that are over two still in the pipeline. So let's say a year for approvals, then you're maybe breaking ground in 2027. Maybe. Okay. So, and that's on the infrastructure. You got five to six months to put in the infrastructure. I once built homes concurrent with me putting in infrastructure. Almost killed me. Okay, nice neighborhood almost killed me. I'd rather get the deep wetss in one season and go vertical the next. Okay, so I just want to clarify this stuff didn't happen just because you guys had a moratorium on. In fact, your moratorum was put on after the August 27th planning commission sketch plan hearing where we received nothing but this looks really good. We didn't receive any like you should change this or gee whiz, we'd like commercial here. No comments of that nature. What is the purpose of planning commission? It's an advisory committee to you all and the town and to the people and the applicants. Oh my gosh. Right. That's what triggered the executive session. They had from June from June, y'all knew that that sketch plane was submitted. And then that night, August 27th, after that hearing, you had an executive session to discuss this moratorum. Okay? So, I just want to be clear. This project that you're trying to stop has been in the pipeline for a year, has had a lot of money spent on it, and we relied on the zoning that's in place, and we don't appreciate trying to be stopped. And I think it flies in the face of the housing prices that we have and what the citizens of this town want. They don't want Walmart,

Peggy. And Walmart's not coming, Peggy. Come on. Let's get real. They want housing. So, let let's just stop this nonsense, work together, and go build more housing. Thank you. Thank you. Lord, are we at a good point to close public comment or do you want to hear some more?

Okay, sounds good. All right, let's discuss. Um, I'll go. Um, so I will say I land rights are very important to me and changing zoning is a really big deal. People have bought this land and they planned on the zoning that they had. And so I understand what everyone is saying. Um, I totally get that. Um, I also understand not wanting to be told what to do, especially by a town. So, I'm I'm just going to throw that out there. Um, but um and I'll I'll even go further to say I've talked to a lot of developers. They all say housing first, commercial second. Makes sense. You build your population base so that it can support their businesses. Now, that being said, we've gone through this process of this comprehensive plan for the last what, like two years. It feels like

the input that we've heard from people in town is that they want this walkable, you know, beautiful pedestrianized kind of downtown with shops and u restaurants and bars that they can go to. Just like Parnell said, walking distance. Um that land is currently more or less available there. We can expand. you know, the business district is is set up and has availability. Um, and once to Peggy's point, once that is sold residential, it's gone. It's you can't get it back. So, regarding this topic in itself, the the reasonzoning part of this topic, I'm personally undecided, but I I do want to move forward with this moratorum for six months so that we can talk to more people. we can talk to Grand Park and everybody else who's affected by this um and decide what we want Frasier to look like and talk to the general public um as well.

Why could we have been talking to them six months ago? We could have um I don't really I think I think it's targeted too. I think it's I think it has something to do with personal problems with some of the board members and not just one developer, maybe a few. I don't know. But I think if we wanted to talk to him, we could have talked to him six months ago. Yeah, fair point. But we've we're kind of down this path at this point. And I don't love the six month because I understand the that turns into 18 months. Um

but again, for transparency, we need to be able to talk to the public. If we can if we can do as much as possible in three months and and make our decision that would be even better. I just I see the flip side of the coin of the public saying oh now the board's moving without our our consent. So I think the easiest answer is moratorum for 6 months. Try and make it as short as possible. Talk to everybody that we can make a good decision based on what the majority feels is right for zoning. It's a six months hard and fast. I mean, is that required by law, state law? It's up to six months. Yeah, we could do shorter.

It can be up to six months. Up to six months. And if you if you design an ordinance and the the board does move forward with any changes to the zoning, um yeah, there's a 30-day publication process for that to go through,

right? So uh if there is changes made and you want to implement that before the uh moratorum is lifted um you would need to account for that timeline as well. So when you feel like you have a final ordinance ready for adoption you need at least 30 days for it to be published in the newspaper which typically requires you know 35 to 40 days notice of the newspaper to get it in the newspaper to be published um and then adopted by the town board and the moratorum from there. So, you could shorten it, but you can't lengthen it. That's my understanding. Garrett Cooper, if you guys want to speak to that.

The ordinance as written does allow for extensions. I don't know under what circumstances. I mean, I think if the code amendment process and potential regulation changes, if if if that's taking us longer than six months, I think that would be a valid reason. by it is certainly the commitment and intention of town staff to if enacted this moratorum only lasts for 6 months or less. And just to bring back Trusty Quickland's question about um passing an emergency ordinance for these business zone regulations, that is also an option that's on the table such that let's say um we evaluate these changes, we arrive at a final ordinance in uh March and it's ready to be adopted at that first uh board meeting in March, it could be potentially adopted as an emergency ordinance. So those changes are effective immediately and at that same meeting the board rescends the moratorum. Uh does does that make sense? Trusty Gregory

is is that any zoning changes is that contingent on the comp plan being passed already? I mean it's this is a product of the comp plan. So if that's February already and what if that gets pushed back again? I I I'm concerned about that relationship between the comp plan and and zoning changes and this timeline.

Sure. Um again, the the intention is not to delay adoption of the comprehensive plan any further than it already has been. Um I I do recognize, you know, questions about the possibility of further delays. Staff and our consultants are committed that there will not be any. They charge us money for these delays. It will be adopted in February under the budget increase that was approved by the board a couple months ago.

I think we're have a hard time with it and telling someone what they can do with their own property when it's well within their right and the code of Frraasier to do what they want to do. That's a hard pill to swallow for me. That would be hard for me. I had hands and someone was to come to me and tell me that hey this can't do that for what reason because we have that hypothetical problem. The the problem is what if all of our commercial got downgraded to residential and we lost that income stream. That could be a problem, but it's it's it's hypothetical. That's the people say we need housing. What if they change all of their commercial product to a housing product?

They do. have the right to do that under the current zoning. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying Safeway is going to do it. No, they they spent too much money on their remodel and looks really good. We got the nicest Safeway store now in the state. Damn. It's going to bring people in, too, I'm gonna tell you. And they're gonna spend money there. All right. All right. Gonna say thank you every time they check out. Um Okay. Um, any more discussion? I think I've made my comments. Okay. Um, well, yeah, we can. Could I make a motion?

No. We've closed public comment at this point. Sorry. Yeah. Um, I'd like to make a motion. Take a great question. If it's burning, I close it. We We close public comment. Okay. Sorry. Yeah.

If if I may speak um for daily acting as town attorney just on some of the concerns of the legality here, um Mr. Mr. Quinn's letter and some comments otherwise from the constituents here tonight have kind of threatened some legal repercussions based on how the board votes. Um that is in relation to something that happened in August. Two events are unrelated. H spoke tonight. you are not going to be subject to legal repercussions for an event that happened in August. The concern with the August executive session was that it would invalidly call. However, executive sessions call for attorney client privilege can be called and this communication necessarily includes the ability for the client, in this case the town, to discuss concerns and relevant issues with a specific legal question with their town attorney so that they may get accurate legal advice. Uh therefore, the executive session called in August. We do not believe there are any concerns with the legality of that and as I mentioned how you act tonight should not be swayed by these comments or concerns.

Andette just to provide some clarification to the public and to the board. Um Garrett I mentioned earlier that this requires a 75% vote. Can you just explain for the emergency ordinances what is the based on seven board members what is the requirement for yays and nays? My understanding is that there must be six affirmative votes in order for this emergency ordinance to pass. Okay. Thank you. Okay. I'd like to make a motion to approve ordinance number 527 imposing a temporary moratorium on land use applications in the B business zone district and declaring an emergency.

Is there a second? I will second. Any further discussion? Okay. Um, let's do a roll call vote. Let's start with Trusty Souls. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Nay. Nay. So, it does not pass. Does not pass. So at this point uh direction from the board would you like us to continue to pursue the u kind of an input workshop series for the business district zoning? Absolutely. Staff will work to push forward.

That's a question. Would the board be open to a shorter moratorum to give us a little bit more time to figure this out? Three months? But then the comprehensive plan means you have to have it done in two so that they can publish it the last 30 days with the holidays. I think that's a little night. So I know I mean I'd like it to happen but

okay. All right. I move to um ajourn second. Nothing further discuss. All in favor? All right.