Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

meeting of the planning commission to order. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands under God, indivisible and legislation. Roll call, please. Roll. Here. Here.

Here. Here. Very well. Um, we have two sets of minutes to approve. Is there a motion on the uh March 24th minutes? We'll make a motion to approve minutes PC from March 24th. Second. It's been moved and seconded. Roll call, please.

Yes. Second. It's been moved and second. Yes. Yes. Motion carries. Uh, next we have the minutes for the April 14th meeting. I'd like to make to make a motion to approve PC0414-26 as presented. Motion carries. Second. It's been moved and seconded that we approve the minutes of the April 14th, 2026 minutes.

Roll call. It's been approved.

Yes. Yes. Motion carries. Any old business act? Yes. No, sir. Thank you. Yes. New business? Yes. All right. Uh this is application PC26-11. This is at 3691 Hudson Drive. Property R3. This is for modification of an approved plan and uh a variance for a setback.

Uh so if you recall a couple years ago, this is for the Rustic Diamond property. Uh they got plan approved back in May 2024. This was the approved plan. On that plan, it showed cabin number one uh would be moved to be located at least 15 feet from the side property line which was required under the code for boring homes. Um so cabin number one as you can see on the bottom left of the screen the existing location is the hashed lines. So it was slightly crossing the property line and they're proposing to move it to comply with the 15oot setback. So there was not a variance attached to the original proposal because they were supposed to move it.

Um the cabin is in the existing location as it is today. Uh they have not moved it. So that's what the variance is for at this point. And with this uh we they've agreed to swap some land with the city. So about 938 square feet that we're swapping. The city owns the property to the north of it. So this red hashed area here that city property that will become theirs which will take their cabin off the city property and then in return the city is getting this back corner of their property about 939 square ft.

Uh so that at least will take it off the city property but as you can tell bottom left here the cabin itself is still on the property line. So they do need a zero foot setback from that requirement. Uh in the new code with boarding homes we instead of having 15t across the board we said that they comply with the principal building setback which in this case is only 8 ft. So instead the 15 required only 8 ft now. But regardless they still need still do need a variance beyond the property line. And these are a couple pictures of the cabin. That's all I have for this review. question.

It appears that the cabin is still

Yeah, that property is owned by Eric. They worked out an easement agreement um for for water line and for this uh happen to be slightly on the property. So, we're moving forward with this as just a zero foot setback since they have the ement agreement. Yeah, the property is owned by agreement. The applicant is here. I I have a question. Come up. Please state your name and address

and turn that on. Steve, 3691 Hudson Drive extension. And you swear what you're about to say is the truth. Absolutely. Thank you. I swear. So last May you came um before us and we approved your conditional use with the um I guess commitment to move this to be in compliance with our code. Why now? What the what caused the change? Well, the we've been trying to get unbelievable stuff.

So the cabin's good where it And there's never that's wildlife preserve behind us and around and Eric Hob who owns the property adjacent that's never to be built on that sewer line going down that's our driveway that's never to be built on either. He said I have no problem with it whatsoever. So we have an encroachment uh agreement. So we do have that on record as well. So we have we're clearly far from any other property the other side of this property. It sets where it is. And we went through the city. We did a property trade. So we didn't have to move because it's really going to be costly to move that cabin.

You didn't know that going into the last request? That's where I'm hung up on. We conditionally approved it a year ago and or two years ago. So you went into that with an agreement that you would move it. Since then you learned about needing the Since then everything has everything has changed so dramatically. We've been to state three times and they've been absolutely in our favor all three times. We would like to leave the cabin. It's not there's nothing going to be developed behind us or around us

and the neighbor who owns the ement it's like two to six in the back corner to answer my question though you didn't know that ahead of the last time you came before us no I didn't know what I was going to do I didn't know if I was going to survive if they were going to make me take the cabin completely off property or not. Even with conditional use, they still took us three times the state state. In fact, they said you shouldn't even be here.

We're trying to do everything right. We're great expense. Great expense. What's the cabin used? Well, we're gonna let really we're going to let someone It's a uh the term is

primitive logic. So, when we have a backyard wedding, I'm really planning on letting them change what I'm planning on doing. But, hey, if I want to spend the night in there or someone's at our house, we just want to exist. We don't have to go through picking it up and moving again, especially when nothing's ever going to be built on houses ement and then or the wildlife and they've already put us over $70,000 just legal bills to get to this. We are tired and we're tired of spending money for nothing and it's perfect where it's at. And the neighbor has no issue whatsoever. Absolutely not. And they did the land swap knowing that that would take care. They were trying to get this So we didn't have to move. So that was a lot of great painstaking going through just to get that so we don't have to move it.

There's really no reason. Zack, sorry. I have one more question. How does the land swap come into play? But then he's still needing a variance. What What purpose does the land swap serve if it doesn't him the approval, but now he needs the the variance. The land swap just gets the cabin off the city's property. You know, even with that, still doesn't negate the setback requirement. It doesn't meet the set. So, the land swap has really no

the real issue is that it's too close to that front property line. It's up along the property. So, honestly, no matter what what type of property swap we would have had, we would have done with them. it would still be right on the edge. They still had to go through the land. So, we didn't have to move it. So, we went through all that. It's already in the county to

And nothing can ever be built there. Once again, that's the main sewer line going down. used to be the bug rail and that's where all the sewer lines. Nothing built there. Nothing's going to be backing one. And it's the fourth year,

but the intent to do the land was to keep once again. I got the encroachment set back. file from the neighbor. It's all has it been approved? Okay. I don't need to see it. I trust what you say. Any other questions? We're certainly fighting to do the right thing. Just real quick, Mr. The last update I got was that we're still waiting on the deeds.

Was that we were still waiting on the deeds? The deeds. Just the deeds need signed by the attorney. He's been ill. So I'm just waiting to have the deeds. So it hasn't been approved. Well, it's I'm sorry. It's approved. Just hasn't been recorded yet. Hasn't been legally binding. Yeah. So there's there's recommended condition of approval that the

excuse me the land swap has to be recorded some county as just a condition approval. Our wait is perfect for this. We want to be right and safe and not you know we're bother

just a question. So why was the state involved? Uh they decided that we need to go to state and then we went to state another three times we went to state. Third time first time they said you didn't need to bring us here. Are you aware you could have resolved this? Yes we know. Then when we went back a third time, they said, "You aware you're holding them to the wrong codes?"

Yes, we're sorry. I worked on that list for two years. I'm tired working on this stuff. And I just want it right in our favor all three times. The last time they weren't even I was out of country and they said, "You don't even need to be there. We're just dotting or crossing teeth. I'll speak on your behalf." My wife said, "Change my I came home really trying to do the right thing and this is not the land. We thought that was going to be the end of items. If if I can

right there the state was for the state building codes. It was unrelated to the zoning codes. So they're just things they actually were talking the building codes regulate how the buildings are constructed based on use classification under the building code. It did not have anything to do with the zoning site plan for use. So it's a separate separate process. That's what the building

state building. This is something we've been trying to do, but it's We just want to be left alone and neighbors are good. We're not No one's ever going to build around us. A few inches isn't that much of a difference. Okay. Thank you.

Were there any comments in? No, there's another State your name and address, please. Brian Loudermilk, 2536 Road. So, do you swear what you're about to give? I do. Thank you. So, I think

I've been involved with this since I was on council a couple years. So, you're going on two or three years trying to make this work. multiple trips to the state of aware and if I'm not mistaken basically one of the final pieces that allows this project to happen I believe the building department is ready to issue permits uh for some of these things. Uh they're holding on for this to be approved, but there's still other things the deeds water line. But yes,

there's some loose ends to tie up, but this working with them and others agreed on where you're at a lot of time and effort many years and I don't think there's anybody opposed on this project trying to figure out how to tie up Second. It's been moved and seconded that we approve the PC26-11. Any further discussion? Roll call, please.

Mr. Wagner, yes. Mrs. Strepto, no. Mr. Basic. Yes. Mr. Dulak, yes. Mr. Prescott, yes. Motion carries. 26-11. All right. Anything other than the uh public records and open meeting information? You guys excited for some fun? I am so excited.

I saw that you guys you guys are all in my in my domain now.

Um, real quick while I get my computer set up. Um, as you guys all know, my name is Drew. I'm the law director and I think four of you have been through this training. So, The real benefit here is to Mr. Prescott. Um, but it is it is it is and for whatever reason my computer keeps locking up as I try and get the uh presentation on here.

Um, but this is a good refresher for everybody. Um, and I've told you guys in the past that um I am a a philosophy professor that got lost on the way to his PhD and accidentally stumbled into his law degree. Um, so I'm a big uh believer in the Socratic method, the dialogue of this training as opposed to me just spouting off what's on here. So ask questions, make comments, uh, talks amongst yourself as long as you're not violating the Open Meetings Act, which we'll get to. on the way to his computer. So I'm a big believer in the method dialogue of this training as opposed to me just like comments as long as you're not open to

Oh. I just find visual aids are very important. You mean like Oh, I do. I just find a very important. Oh, there we go. Task manager. Okay, close the program. I mean, I got here early so that I could make sure it was up.

Oh, there we go. So, while I'm getting this pulled up, um,

yeah, one of the old ones. Um, so just there's there's three parts to tonight's training that I uh that we're going to hit on. It's public records law and open meetings act and conflict of interest. And the first two are really what make up when we talk about um the Ohio Sunshine Law. Those two are the the criteria here. How about that? Um, as I said, theuh's three parts to it. Uh public records, open meetings, and conflict of interest. We'll take them in this order. And again, as I go through, spout out your questions. But part part one, what is a public record? And because I'm a lawyer, I always start with the statutory definition. And it has to have uh any of these. So it has to be a document, device, or item. Um this just means it has to tangibly exist. It doesn't matter the medium. It can be electronic. It can be paper. It's not your thoughts, but we'll get into that. Um, it has to be created or received or come under the jurisdiction of the public office. So, it means we actually have to have it. It can't be something that some other agency has. It has to actually be owned by us. And it has to serve uh to document the organization, the function, the policies. Meaning, it has to pertain to what you guys are doing here. And it has to have all three of these. if it's missing any one of these, it doesn't fall under a public record. Now, there are a slew of exceptions to this, and we'll go through a couple of those. Um, but the big thing is if you guys are interested, and I think I made this same joke before, if you are sitting up late one night and can't sleep, I would recommend cracking open the Ohio Sunshine Law Manual. It is a 200page document that we use as the springboard for our research into whether something is a public record or is an open

meeting. It It's very uh it's like reading Warren Peace, I'll tell you. It is just a slog even for lawyers. I'll tell you that. Oh, see I'm more of a Dostki reader myself, but not a Toltoy. But uh all right, so we're going to go through those three items and kind of walk through what those mean. And first is it has to be a document, item or device that is very broad intentionally. So it's trying to capture the most amount of things. And you'll see a running theme throughout tonight's training is that the we are a public agency which means we are the people and people are entitled to any decision making process, our policies, why we make things. And so it's intentionally broad so that people have these and we're not doing things in secret. So it it can be any medium, paper, electronic, uh microfilm, audio, video. I can say with uh authority that the law department has nothing on microfilm anymore. We're moving away from that. In fact, I'm trying to make everything electronic as well because I have a whole store room in the basement full of old files going back decades. If you ever want to read anything about the uh the uh the seal, the that we had to change the seal back in the late 90s. I have three boxes of files on that and I'm intentionally not getting rid of them because I think I want to write a book on it someday. I just haven't got to it because we do things like this. Um um so with the exception of one's thoughts or unrecorded conversations, most records would pass this. Um and a note of that like the record of a phone call is a record. So the phone call like the actual log of it but unless we are in the habit of recording them or we actually record them the actual substance of the conversation is not a

public record. Um and this is we'll get into it in the next part um but it has to exist um and we don't have to create records. So, if someone calls and says, let's say Mary called me and asked me about the item that was just discussed before, and then someone called and said, I want a public record. I want that phone call. I want a summary of it. I don't have to create a summary of the phone call. I just have to prove, oh, here here's the log that shows that Mary called me on this date at this time and we spoke for five and a half minutes. I don't have to create the record. However, um and we'll get into this a little bit more under the uh coming under the jurisdiction um if we can create a record from a database then we very easily then we have to do it. So the example is we don't keep a list somewhere of every time we've done a deal with Amazon or we bought something from Amazon, but we have a finance system that can easily pull every purchase made from Amazon over the last 6 months. So we would have to create that record because we're not technically creating it. We're running a report on something. The inverse of that is if we have paper files somewhere and someone's like, I want every police report from the last three years that happened on Daryl Road and involved a dog. If we don't have a adequate way of pulling that, we don't have to go through every police report that happened on Daryl Road to find out if there was a dog involved in that case. Does that make sense? So, it has to actually exist. It has to did received or come under our jurisdiction. This just means we have to be in possession of it. So the example I I've used before and you probably remember this one. If someone say we have a job opening and some and it's open for four weeks and someone calls on week two and says I want all the resumes

for all the people who have applied for that job over the entire opening. We only have to provide the two weeks of the opening of the resumes that we have received. You can't make a standing or future public records request saying like I want that as soon as it comes in. We we don't have to fulfill that because it hasn't come yet. Now if four weeks from now someone comes and says now I want all of them then we would have to turn it over. But you can't make future public records requests. Um and then also an exception to that coming under our jurisdiction if we hire an outside firm to do something for us. An example that you guys might be familiar with is the public the public arts master plan that we're currently working on. That is being generated by an outside firm that is working on our behalf. And even if they never turned it over to us, which they they will um but even if they didn't, we would have to get that because they are acting on our behalf. So the example they that I I put in here too is like a public accounting firm. Whenever we do an audit, we're not auditing ourselves. were being audited by an outside agency, we would have to pull that report and give it if someone makes a valid request on that. Any questions on that? That one's pretty easy. And then serving to document the organization, function, policy, decision, that sort of thing. So this um it has to be about not merely the possibility of it. So it has to it has to be about the business you're conducting here. So, the example I use is if Jeff uh emails Mary and Dan and says, "Hey, let's grab a drink after tonight's meeting." And it has nothing to do with business. It's just you guys are friends outside of this and you just happen to be using the same email thread that you know everything is sent to us on, then it doesn't count as that because it has nothing to do with this.

Now, if you are talking about business at that, not only is that an open meetings violation because it's three of you and you're pre-ordained doing it, pre-arranging doing it, but it also serves to document a function of this. So then it would it would come under the uh under meeting this criteria. Um so things that are our work email address, requisition forms, meeting minutes, but things that are not personal uh calendar. So if you use a personal email, I think you guys have your City of Stow emails, but if some maybe you were to forward something from your your work email to your personal email, the that email would, but just because it's sent to your personal doesn't mean everything in your personal falls under it. And the example I always use here is because our police department might take a photo on the scene of a crime on their own personal phone that becomes a public record, but their whole phone doesn't just because it's on, you know, the very nature of where it's at. Um, and it can be in parts. So, say there's an email that I send out to all of you guys that say, um, well, it's like an example is I I know Mr. Prescott personally as well. side of this and I I know his children's because his children went to school with my son and say I sent him an email saying, "Hey, don't forget we have the meeting tonight. We're going to be going over public records tra training. How are the girls doing?" I would have to turn over the email, but we could redact the part that has nothing to do with the meeting. So, we could redact the how are the girls doing. So it's not a one size just because business is being conducted in the email that the whole thing comes into it because we have the ability to redact on it. We just have to then say why it was redacted when we we turn over the report and we have to keep a copy of the unredacted parchment. Um so again private conversations that

are they're not public conversations even if they occur on public devices. So I use this example. This is both my work and personal phone number. Uh phone right here. I have a work number and I have a personal number. If I get a text on my uh work number, just because it's on this device does if it's a personal call to my work phone, it doesn't matter. It it just because it's on a public device doesn't make it a public record. It still has to meet this criteria and be about the public office. Does that make sense? Okay, you guys are all pros at this. I don't even know why I do this. I do this I do this to refresh you guys because believe it or not, there are cases that come out every year that change public records. Um, and this is this is the tangent I'm running on, the the professor and me. Um, America is run on what's called the British common law system. There are two main types of legal systems throughout the world. there's the common law system and the um statutory system. So the statutory system is more like um continental Europe, France, uh Germany, Italy, and you probably heard of the Napoleonic code. That's a civil uh statutory system. It means that everything's explicitly stated in the statute and then what a judge determines is only good for that case. British common law also has statutes, but it also has this body of judges decisions to then further define. So, it's a little bit more in depth. It requires more attorneys. I'm sure people don't like that. People don't like attorneys. Um, but that basically means that the law is always fluid. It's always changing. We have to stay up to date on things. In fact, there was a big change about three years ago to public records. There's an exception that's it's clears and I can't remember. I think it's confidential law

enforcement investigatory report. I think that's what it stands for. But there was a big change to it and it threw the whole public records world into a buzz of what does this mean? Because it changed 40 years worth of precedent. Um and now they've paired back some of that and said, "Hey, you guys took it a little too broad." Um I think it was more of the Supreme Court saying, "Oh, we didn't realize we opened up a can of worms, so let's pair back that can of worms." Um, but that's the reason I do the training every year as well, just in case there are any big updates on it. So, this is how should you guys respond and monitor compliance. Number one, the best practice is appoint one person. And lucky for you guys, you have one person. It's the secretary. Um, so it's actually Jamie Lordmith that handles all of your public records. Um, so the uh the advice I always give on here is if you guys receive a public records to your email, don't respond to it, immediately forward it to Jamie Lord Smith because what you don't want is if they sent a public records to say all five of you and all five of you and the request was I want all of the correspondence relating to this item and you go through your email and you find hey I only had two correspondents on I'll respond to it and send it over to them. But say Jeff sends over two emails, Mary finds three emails and sends three over. Ryan doesn't find any and says I got nothing. That's a contradiction from each of the uh from the public body saying we have this record. No, actually we have this record and it it just conflicts with itself. they could then bring a claim and there's statutory damages that if we don't do things. So if a court of claims says, "Yeah, you didn't turn over the right public records or you didn't respond appropriately," they get money from the city on that. And there are bad actors out there. Not going to name any

names. That that's what they do. Their career is they go around the state looking for public records and open meetings violations and then they sue or file claims and they make money in bulk on this because it's only a couple hundred or a thousand depending on the violation. But if you do enough of them, it's a volume business. You can make money and that's what they do. And they move around the state until because eventually a city gets hip to it and realize, oh, we're making mistakes this way. Let's fix it. takes his bag and moves on to another city and and he targets smaller cities that don't have in-house law departments or have training like this. Um, and it's just it's a best practice have one person respond to it. That person then will also track every uh request you get. So, it's important you let us know because we also have to respond in a reason reasonable amount of time. So, the minute you notice it, please forward it on to Jamie. um and she can track it and then she responds. Every year I get every public records log in the city from every department and every board and every commission and I have to turn that over to the state. The state audits it. They'll spot check. They'll go through and say, "Hey, I want the public record that came in on May 14th from the law department. I want the public record that came in July 2nd to the planning department." And they'll ask for us to show what did what was requested, what was turned over, what was redacted. Did you provide a legal response for the redactions? That sort of thing. And then we have to maintain written copies of those as well. As well as our responses are redacted and our unredacted response because the the thing you also don't want is to redact the original because then maybe the person that requested it is only subject to certain redactions and then someone else requests it and they're not subject to the same redactions. Well, now we ruined the original because we redacted the original. So, we have to maintain copies of both.

questions on public records. You guys are onethird of the way done. Open meetings act. This is also very important for you guys. Um the good news for most of this is again your secretary Jamie will handle all of the open meeting stuff. It's just important for you guys to be aware of it so you don't accidentally violate it when you're out of this public meeting. So again, we'll we'll walk through the three things in on this page. I underlined them for you. Public bodies, deliberations, and open meetings. We'll walk through what each of those are so that we know what they are, but these are the things to to think about when we're talking about open meetings. Just take for granted, you guys are a public body. You're doing something on behalf of the city. Uh, and the good news is, and I think some of you guys are familiar with this, is I am the attorney for the city. So, I am the attorney for you guys when you are acting in this capacity. When you are put on your planning commission hat. You have a lawyer that you don't have to pay for. It's me. It's Steve Hooton, my deputy, who you guys might know as well because I think he's been to a couple planning commission meetings as well. We are available at any time, anytime you have questions, if you see something on the agenda beforehand that you're like, I'm not really sure what this means and you want to have a confidential conversation because again, going back to the public record section, one of the exceptions to public records are attorney client privilege. So, if you are calling me or asking for a legal advice on something, I can give you guys written legal opinions. And those written records are still not subject to public records. We do not have to turn them over. All right. What is a meeting? It has to have these three things. It has to be pre-arranged. It has to have a majority of the public body. And you have to be discussing or deliberating meetings. So, three of you ran in ran into each other randomly at Giant Eagle and just started talking about a Friday night football

game. That doesn't meet the definition of a meeting even though three of you are present. Now, if you start talking about planning commission stuff, it doesn't meet that pre-arranged gathering. But I'd also caution you if there are three of you present, just don't talk business because you don't want someone to make a complaint and then us have to investigate and say, "Did you guys pre-arrange this meeting to make it look like you randomly ran into each other?" An investigation might clear you guys, but an investigation is it's a headache for everybody, right? And you can't get clever and try and call it something else and do a workaround. Call it a work session or retreat. Um, it's still a meeting. If it's if it's pre-arranged, you're discussing be um the business and three of you are there. That's important. It's three of you. That's unless you guys were to create some subcommittee that was working on something. Then it becomes a majority of that subcommittee. So, just don't create a subcommittee because I'm assuming a subcommittee is three of you and then two of you that subcommittee becomes the quorum. just I don't know what can you think of a reason why there would be a subcommittee on planning commission we we run into this like art commission they have their own subcommittees because they have multiple projects running through and I think they have like 15 members on their art commission board so it's easier to you know pair it off with five members it's harder to minimize it down um but just remember it's the majority whatever that that body is. Okay. Serial meetings. This is something that gets talked about a lot because this is when you're intentionally trying to circumvent this requirement of the three of you. So, you might have heard it referred to

as roundroin as well, where Mary calls Ryan and says, "How are you going to vote on this?" And Ryan says, "I'm going to vote yes." And then Mary hangs up and immediately calls Dan and says, "Ryan's going to vote yes on this. What are you gonna vote that yes on this? Dan says, I'm gonna vote yes. So then Mary calls back, Ryan says, Dan's gonna vote yes on this. I'm gonna call Jeff next. And then that you you get the picture. Even though not all of you are present, it's very clear that you're trying to run around the process and have the deliberations when not all of you are present. And this is also important. When we say don't hit reply all to an email, it's for this reason because since we've moved into this world of electronic communications, that can be considered a meeting. If Jamie sends out the agenda to all of you and if you hit reply all and say I'll be at the meeting, that's nothing to worry about. But if you reply, I'm going to be at the meeting and I got things to say about item one. I'm not in favor of it. Then you start getting into the territory of where it could be considered a meeting. I'm not going to say that is a meeting, but it could be considered and courts have interpreted those back and forths can be considered a meeting even if you're not physically present with each other. All right. Does that make all sense when we're talking about meetings and what are meetings? All right. Discussion deliberation of public business. I'm not going to walk through what the definition of discussions or deliberations are. Just know it's when you guys are talking about things. So if you're at a meeting and since Mary sits next to Dan, she starts whispering into him, "I'm not really in favor of this. I don't think this is a good idea." That's a deliberation. Even though it's in the open meeting, people can't hear it. And people are entitled to know what those discussions are. Now, if it wasn't at the meeting and Mary just called Dan and said, "Hey, where are you feeling on this one? Because I just I have a problem with it." That's fine because

that's not a meeting. But when you're at the meeting, the deliberations have to be open and available to the public. So, another example of this that I always throw out there is the doors are open, right? Everyone can get in. But if we close the door and lock it at 6:00, right when the meeting starts, they're no longer open even though they were at one point because people can't get into it, it's no longer open. So, I think have we had to have a meeting up in mayor's conference room? I remember we had to have one at some point for another commission. I was gonna say I think I remember Dan that we had one up there. Yeah. Like an actual planning commission meeting. I don't know what it was was happening.

No, you know it was I think they had a special council meeting in here the night that you guys had already scheduled to meet planning commission. So you had to move the meeting. And the the reason I bring that up is that's behind a locked door that has to be scanned in. So, we had to prop the door open to make sure that it was open to the public, actually open. It's the same reason we don't allow um uh votes to be done by secret ballot or um whisper in Jaime's ear, walk past and whisper in her ear. All voting has to be done in public because that's a deliberation as well. Um so, just what doesn't count as a meeting, question and answer sessions. Um, if we were doing just this presentation and no other business, it would not be a public meeting because it's advice from your legal counsel getting trained on something and it's a presentation. Now, we'll go into executive session, which some of you have some familiarity with because of the Miller's Landing issue. Um, but that's still an open meeting. There's just an exception to it under the executive session rules, which I think is after this. So, what are the duties to make sure that we're fulfilling? Number one is notice. You guys don't have to worry about that. Jamie handles all that. There are different types of meetings. They require different types of notice. Regular meetings, they're done ahead of ahead of time. It's your regular meeting. We put the the notice up at the beginning of the year that all the times planning commission is going to be meeting. If you have a special meeting, there are also rules about what can be discussed at a special meeting, but that has less of a notice requirement in 72 hours. And emergency meetings are immediately or 24 hours depending on the type of emergency. We've never had an emergency planning commission meeting. I think we've had special meetings before um because

things that come in and we need to get them passed before deadlines, but um for the most part, you guys don't have to worry about that because you guys also don't handle the notice, but they have to be open. Mr. Rice said, secret ballots, whispering, serial meetings or discussions that are prohibited during the open, they have to be open and available to the public. And then we have to maintain meeting minutes. The meeting minutes don't have to be verbatim. They just have to be a gist of the conversation. Um, I think you might see some changes in the future on this because of the advent of AI and AI transcripts of meetings. There might be some changes, but currently it's just the gist of the meeting. The So, it's you don't have to put Mary said this, then Ryan said this in response, then Mary said this in response, then Ryan said this, and then Dan jumped in. It just says there was a discussion, there was general agreement of this, there was worry about this. That's all it has to be. Um, and you guys have to vote on the meetings to make them official. Um, so what I always tell people is in the event of a request before you guys vote on the next meeting minutes, we just provide the draft and we state these are draft meetings. They will be voted upon at the next meeting. We can then after you request it at that time, we can provide the official meetings minutes. Um, we kind of walk through all this regular emergency and We won't go through all those because again don't particularly respond to you guys. Um but executive session so I know some of you have been through executive session while being on planning commission. We have to have a specific reason for that and it's written in the statute. Um the big one for you guys is pending or imminent court action. Um and that's what with the Miller's Landing case we were able to adjourn into executive session. So what happens is you would open the meeting, you would conduct

business and then someone would move to enter into executive session to discuss pending or court imminent court action under and I don't have them listed here, but we would have have to list the specific code section. Um I don't remember off the top of my head, but I think it's like 192.16G. And then you would list off what one of which matter of this is. I know pending or uh imminent court action is two on that list. So we would say two at the end of it. Then you have to have a voice vote from each of you like an individual roll call voice vote. Then we are adjourned to public uh to um executive session. That means we either dismiss everyone in this room and they have to wait outside or more likely we adjourn to the executive session room which we have conveniently located right through the boards and commission room and we could discuss only pending or imminent court action and we don't take any votes on that. Um we can just discuss it. We can't stray from that. It has to be about that. Um, and then we come back to executive session and the chair would just say and we're back from executive session. And if there's something that needed voted on after the fact, we would then vote on it when we're back in the regular meeting. So no action can be taken back in executive session. But you can have those candid conversations to discuss court strategy, deadlines. I could walk you through what the lawsuit is, that sort of thing. And again, some of you have some familiarity to this because we had it happen about two years ago. Any questions on executive sessions? Any questions on open meetings in general?

I would recommend not doing that. That would be that could stray into the territory. I mean, there is some argument on the pre-arranged nature of it, but depending on the pre-arranged who knew what and who said what to, hey, Mary, patch Ryan in so we can discuss this, you're you're getting into territory that it's a it's a open meeting and it' be a violation of it. And just so you guys know, it's statutory damages and any action that's taken in a meeting that violates the open meeting are null and void. So, you would have to then come back actual meeting that meets the criteria and repass anything that happened at a meeting that violated it. Any other questions? All right, twothirds of the way done. Let's hit conflicts of interest. This is the fun one. This is the this is the one you can ask outrageous questions and we can talk about weird things. Um because this is the one that's a bit more nebulous and it's more specific to the actual situation that is being presented to you. So, there are two main types of conflict of interest. when you accept something in order to vote a certain way and you might not care about the outcome of it, but someone's essentially bribing you to do something in a certain way. The quidd proquo is the old quote. Um or if you take an official action that benefits you personally or someone you're doing business with or direct family. So that's um let's say Dan has a cousin that's coming before planning commission because he's opening a business here. Um cousins a great example maybe maybe you have a brother that's coming here to do business and we'll talk about abstensions and how to abstain and everything but that could be a conflict of interest because it's your direct family and they're coming before you asking for something in your official capacity. That's that's the the second form. Um and the basic assumption is that public servants deserve you guys to make decisions based on what you

think the public would want, not what's personally beneficial to you or those close to you. So that's just operate under that parameter throughout this and think about that and keep that as the frame of mind and you're going to be fine on conflict of interest. Um so I I alluded to this but the abstension process abstension means that you need to completely abstain from the whole process not just voting. So the example I always use is if you have a conflict of interest that you think is is a conflict and again if you're unsure always call me beforehand and we can get cleared up ahead of time. I can even send you it in written form that hey this is a conflict or know that is not a conflict. That way you have some backing on it. And a a quick side note, it's always better to ask me and confirm what you're thinking as opposed to just make the decision because if you say Jeff think doesn't think he has a conflict of interest because this person's a cousin that he hasn't seen in forever. He just knows we're we're kind of related and he makes a decision and then it's found that there is a conflict. You don't have the same protections as if you were to call me, run it by me, and I were to give you the exact same opinion and say, "That's not a conflict, don't worry about it." If a court finds that it is, you have protections against that liability because you relied on legal counsel. So, it's better to ask just to confirm things even if you're pretty sure. Um, but what the example I was going towards is again, say Dan has a brother that's coming here and he says, "I'm not allowed to vote on that. That's my brother, but I think this project's great and I would vote for it if I was allowed to." That's a that's not abstaining because he's still making his opinion known. And let's say Dan, you know, Dan calls Jeff before the meeting and says, "Hey, I'm not allowed to vote on this, but I think it's a good

project." That's also not abstaining because you're talking about to with other members of the body. So just abstain ahead of time early in the process and just wash your hands of it entirely. Any questions on abstensions? It's pretty basic. Um so the thing here is the thing of value is the important thing and the the thing of value has two parts to it. You have to examine the source of it and the value of it. The example I use here is let's say my wife buys me a Rolex watch. It's clearly a thing of value, right? Everyone would agree, but the source of it is important. Do you think she's giving it to me because I'm the law director of the city of Stow? Thank you. Let's hope not, right? Let's hope she's doing it because she's my wife and she loves me, right? But let's say a law firm buys me that same exact Rolex watch. Is that probably a conflict? Yes, because they're pro the source of it might have business before the city. So you have to look at both. So the other example, we'll get into it a little bit too. Things that are not considered having value. If a law firm buys me a cup of coffee, is that probably a conflict? Probably not because the value of the cup of coffee is not a lot. And we'll get into when those things can be things of value, but you have just I wanted you guys to see that you have to look at both of them to determine whether or not is it is a thing of value. Um, so things of value, things that have substantial value, private jobs, payments of debts, loans, travel, lavish meals. This is my old joke. You guys are all going to groan. Browns tickets are considered things of value even though they're not worth a lot. So, they're still considered things of value. Um, and then this one's important, too. Significant disc discounts. So, the

example I like to give here is if Dick Sporting Goods started saying, "All sto enforcement, we're going to give you a 50% discount." I would recommend our police do not take that discount because our police department overseas and regulates and responds to calls at the Dick Sporting Goods here in Stow. And 50%'s a pretty significant discount. Now, if they give a 10% discount to all law enforcement everywhere, probably not a significant thing. But if that same 50% discount is offered down in Louisville, Kentucky to Stow Law Department members or Stow Police Department, that's probably not a significant thing of value because there's no tangential relationship between me and Louisville, Kentucky or the police department in Louisville, Kentucky. Um, things that are not substantial value. Cups of coffee, boxes of popcorn, plate of cookies. I think if some of you were here when Jamie 6 was giving this, uh, picture frames were listed on here. I never understood why. So, I just took it off, but I still mentioned it just as a force of habit. Um, but this is where I said they could be considered things of value if say every Friday they drop off coffee for the planning commission. say every Friday come by city hall and you get free coffee from Starbucks. That could and there's no clear when does it turn from not a thing of value to a thing of value. It's that gut check. It's what you would have us research it and find out a court decided after six times of it happening it became a thing of value. But just know that things that are not considered of substantial value can eventually become substantial things of value. Um, again, got to consider the source. Again, an improper source is someone doing or seeking to do business within the agency. So, an example is if the

gentleman here that was presenting offered you guys all something right before he came to the the to have something before you, that is probably an improper source. Um, if it's regulated, so they're thinking about doing something. So, they own a parcel of land, but they haven't yet decided what they're going to do, but they're trying to butter you guys up early, that can be considered an improper source. Or if they're interested in it. So, the example I use here is say Sheets is before you guys and they're they're asking for something um and Sheets is not approaching you guys and saying, "I want to take you out to a nice dinner." But the construction company that builds Sheets says, "I want to take you guys out to a nice dinner." They have interest in a matter that's before you because they want a sheets to be approved. It's the one that came to mind because that's why it came to mind and that's why I brought it up. Um, to my knowledge, no one here has been offered a lavish meal from sheets. I want to get that on record. But anyway,

100 mozzarella sticks is pretty lavish, Ryan. I don't know what you're talking about. All right, any questions on conflicts of interest? I think you guys kind of grasp what the if it if it smells bad, check with me and then we'll clear it or tell you that yes, you're you're absolutely right. Um, so the again the Overarching theme of tonight's training is if you have questions, contact the law department. I think all of you guys have my contact information. Can you confirm that? If not, my b my business card is sitting right there and it's got my cell phone number on it, too. So, you can get a hold of me if you did. Did you lose it?

Okay, good. So, you don't need another one. Do you want another one? I'll bring you another one. Do you have one of my magnets? I might have already given one to you. University of Michigan fans are very Yeah, I can attest to that as a Buckeye fan myself. All right, that concludes it everybody. We did it. It took us a couple meetings, but we got there. Very well. Uh, can I have a motion for adjournment? I'll second it. All in favor of adjourning signify by saying I. I. We are adjourned.