Town Council - Regular Meeting

This is the London Dairy Town Council meeting for Monday, September 14th, 2026. Everyone please rise for the pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Ron, if I may, for a moment of silence. Absolutely. We recently had passed away in town a member of our community for a very long time. Her name was Marilyn Webster Ham. Marilyn passed away at the age of 97. Marilyn had actually started the Lundary Heritage and Historic Society here in Lundary. And she was also appointed the town historian in 2005. In 2007, Marilyn and her husband checked. celebrated her 50th wedding anniversary, and as well were the grand marshals of Lundary's old home day parade. They enjoyed many, many years here in Lundary and finished her final years in Manchester and want to wish her and her family condolences and thank them for all the time and service that they provided to Lundary.

Thank you.

I'd like to start off today with something positive. In the weekly update that we get, I saw a very positive, I'll say, employee appreciation from Battalion Chief Bruce Howell. I'd like to share it with the entire community because it's very, very positive and I appreciate him doing this. On the evening of May 19th, Londonderry Fire Rescue was dispatched to the area of Nashua Road and Pimenta Road for a reported rollover motor vehicle crash. Crews responded, extracted the patient from the vehicle, and transported him to the hospital. While the incident itself was one that our members are highly trained to handle, what happens after the call is what is truly a recognition. The intersection of Nashua Road and Parmenter is no stranger to tragedy. Several years ago, it was the site of a fatal crash that claimed the life of a local teenager. Since that time, a memorial cross and stone have stood on that corner in remembrance. Unfortunately, this crash damaged that memorial. After the patient had been transported and the tow truck had removed the vehicles, several members of our department quickly took it upon themselves to repair and rebuild the memorial. No one asked them to do this, there was no crews there, no publicity, no explanation, no recognition. They simply recognized that the memorial meant to the family and to our community and they wanted to make it right. It simply documents an act of kindness and respect performed after an emergency had ended and acts and speaks volumes about the character of the people who serve our community. I believe it is appropriate to recognize Londonderry Fire for the compassion and empathy they demonstrated. It was a powerful reminder that the community and our firefighters extended well beyond their emergency response. Their commitment to serving the community is reflected not only in the calls they answer, but also the kindness, respect, and humanity they show to one another. When I found out about this act of kindness and caring, I wanted to make it known to the entire community. This is what Londonderry Fire Rescue does for our community. Please join me in recognizing these exceptional acts for what they exemplify and is the very best of what Londonderry is. Thank you. With that, I'll open public comment. Good evening, sir.

Good evening, David Ellis, One Wheelchair Drive. If you don't mind, I'll sit. Please do. I would like to read a statement concerning the two documents about the position for the town manager or the job description. Two documents are going to be discussed. One of them describes the job and qualifications necessary to perform it. It requires the town manager to be responsible for running the over $50 million town business, having over 200 employees, while staying in full compliance with policies that are set by the town council. It uses measurable and transparent statements that hold him accountable for failure. Town Council is the Board of Directors that sets policy and direction in alignment with the expressed wishes of the shareholders who are the residents that elected them. The Town Manager is the Chief Executive who administers and manages the day-to-day operations in alignment with the Board of Directors. There is a separation of responsibilities. It is clear, unambiguous and compliant with the Town Charter. In addition to essential experience, the town manager shall have a minimum of a bachelor's degree in relevant disciplines. A degree is not just remembering a bunch of facts. It's learning how to analyze complex and critical situations specific to the chosen field. Educational prowess alone will not suffice any more than experience will. Despite having such an excellent template to work from, Councillor Dunn has created a document that uses only highly ambiguous and subjective phrases that are open to wide interpretation. It does not prevent unqualified applicants being appointed. It removes the separation of responsibilities. It allows council to fly in like a seagull and crap all over any decision that the town manager has made. Thank you.

David, David, I have good news for you. I have removed that from tonight's agenda, so we will not be discussing that.

Then bear it in mind. All right.

Just let you know that in case anyone else. Yep. Good evening, sir.

Glenn Douglas, 6 Overlook Ave. Back on August 3rd, I came to the council meeting and I asked you guys to waive the privilege on the veterans tax credit opinion. You guys basically refused. Councilor Dunn said it needed to be brought up at another meeting. I waited about three weeks. I emailed the town council. I asked, had you, oh, in addition, you said you needed an opinion on releasing the opinion on the third. Three weeks later, I sent another email. I said, have you received the opinion? And I asked when this would be on the agenda. I got no response. About a week or so later, I emailed again. Same question. No response. Another week and a half went by. I sent in a third request, same question. You're going to put on the agenda. Have you gotten the opinion? Dan Bouchard actually emailed me two days after that. I also asked for a sponsor from a council because I guess that's the way you can force it on the agenda. Mr. Bouchard said that he would sponsor it for a future agenda. So I'm once again asking, have you gotten the opinion on the opinion? And when is this going to be on the town council agenda?

you're just going to stop glenn the answer is the same is going to be on a future agenda we are going to talk about it yes it will be on a future agenda in what year it will be on an agenda okay that's the first one the second one uh i think a couple articles in the paper talked about legal bills

So on 8-17, Councilor Dunn read a document. I sent an email the next day and asked for a copy of that document. And instead of giving me the document, the chair referred it to our new attorney at $500 an hour. The attorney responded to me about a week later, just as the clock was running out on a 91A response. And he said, well, I would need to tell him exactly when in the meeting that this was mentioned so that he could look into it. So I sent him a video clip with the 30 minutes or so that the document was discussed. He emailed me back a partial section of the document. And I responded, I said, well, that's not all of it. There was a lot more. It was mentioned at least three different times throughout that half hour. I got no response. He said, well, so on 9-4, a week later, I said, hey, it's been seven days. I haven't gotten a response to my 91A. And he said, well, we gave you what you asked. If you want anything more... you have to put in another 91A to ask again. So my question is, do I have to put in another 91A so someone can spend $500 an hour to watch a videotape for a document that you have, but you're pushing everything that I can tell to these attorneys at $500 an hour? This is ridiculous. I mean, fiscal conservatives, you're running for state rep, right? That's what I hear. Fiscal conservative, fiscal conservative, $500 an hour, no answers to questions. I'm sure there'll be no answers tonight. I will ask what the paperwork is to get this veterans tax credits on the 2029 town council agenda.

Thank you. Good evening.

Hi.

Linda Lampkin for Griffin Road. I'm going to ask a lot of questions, but they're rhetorical. Why did you run for the elected position you now hold sitting up here? I'm not expecting an answer. I'm just hoping you will think about the question. Have you ever worked in a town position? Not an elected position, but an actual paying employed position. Do you go into the town hall for anything other than to pay your taxes, register your car, or your dog? So what qualifies you guys to rewrite the qualifications for this man's job? Do you have someone else you think could do it better? with less pay or less qualifications? How is it that no one on the board, excuse me, how is it that no one on this board ever working in a position of a town manager feels that they have the ability to override the town manager? Since this man has been employed in this type of position for most of his working life, shouldn't you be following his lead? You do realize this is exactly what the trustees of the library did, and it cost this town not just an amazing director, it also created large lawyers fees due to one person's sense of entitlement. It has become quite apparent to the town that the library situation has kind of become the same thing at the town council. The trustees at the time knew nothing about how to run a library. No one on the board ever worked in a library, yet they felt because they were voted in. Sorry, I'm shaking. Take a breath.

Take a breath.

It's okay.

They have the right to rewrite the director's job, run up lawyer's fees, and to micromanage the library into the ground. Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it? With the power that you and the past trustees felt that they had, the taxpayers are now paying large lawyer bills that could have gone to so many other things in this town. We could have rebuilt a really large part of the skateboard park with what has gone to lawyers fees. Can you not see history repeating itself? You talk about transparency, where is it? You don't need to talk to us about legalities. Many of the people in this room are extremely knowledgeable about laws and our essays in the state. You do realize that the more you say you can't tell the community, the less the community is trusting you. Please stop micromanaging things and get on with the business of the town. Please stop with the power wars and please do what you were voted in for, making the town not only better, but livable. Please stop trying to prove you are right and let our town manager do what he was hired for. The last thing I would like to say is please take the past trustees from the library as an example. And remember, those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Thank you. Richard, good evening.

Good evening. Richard Belinsky, 89 Hall Road. I could bring up some of the stuff I haven't got answers to in the past, but let's hit a new one. I don't know who up there is aware that the salvage yard at 55 Hall Road has been sold. It was sold back in August. has a new owner and the new owner is running the business with no permits, no license. I called code enforcement about this and they're like, oh, he's all set. I said, what do you mean he's all set? Town manager says he's all set. I said, well, he can't be all set. First of all, the license that was granted in June to Murray's or Ed Dudek is for Ed or Murray's. It is non-assignable per state law, and I can read the laws if you want. So I talked to our code enforcement officer, Glenn April, who said, well, I only work Monday through Wednesday, so I'll have somebody get back to you. Brad Anderson gets back to me. Tried to explain it to Brad. Brad didn't want to hear it. He told me he went and spoke with Nick Codner, and he spoke to the town manager, and he was told everything's good. I said, then where are the license? You know that you're the board that licensed that salvage yard.

Okay.

He said that the town manager told him under 236 colon 114 that he's all set. I didn't have that in front of me at the time, so I looked it up. Requirement for operation or maintenance of a salvage yard. A person shall not operate, establish, or maintain a junk yard or machinery yard until one, he has obtained a license to operate the junk yard business, and two, has obtained a certificate of approval for the location of the junk yard. If you go to 121, the hearing for the licenses is the local governing body. That's U5. If approved, the license including certificate of location shall be forthwith issued to remain in effect until the following July 1st. Approval is personal to the applicant and is not assignable. I even went as far as to call the new owner of the business and speak with him. And the first thing he said to me is that, well, the business hasn't been sold. Well, it has been sold. Let me see. I can give you the book and the page number. Book is 6728, page 1267 on 813. It was sold for $800,000, $12,000 in tax stamps. You can pack it and get the price. He's like, how do you know that? Well, you just told me it wasn't sold. I said, and then you went and immediately wrote a lease to yourself for 26 years to Gorillo Auto Salvage, which he can do because he bought it under his realty thing. So he said, you don't have a license to run. Well, I'm doing what the town has told me to. So I could go into a lot more in depth, but one, the town manager doesn't have the authority to license it. That lies with you, the governing body. Are any of you aware of having a meeting where you license this for Joe Grillo? It hasn't happened. He's already put a sign on the building for Grillo Auto, which he cannot do, because there's a court order from 12-12-2016 that says no signs on the business with the exception of one small one that if people leave junk in the yard, they are in violation. I don't believe there's been another court order since then. As far as leaving equipment in the front yard, that's another court order. And these are all court orders that you guys, the town, took them to court on. So what's going on? Why is this happening? You get a new owner, let's start off right. The last owner didn't do anything right, even though we're told everything's right. I called back Brad at the office to talk to him about that 236114 and he never called me back. That was on September 8th, day after Labor Day. I haven't got a call back because he doesn't want to discuss it. Why is the town manager making these decisions? It's not his job, it's not his purview, and he's overstepping. Now, when Brad talked to me, he said, you know, the town manager says you can come in and see him and talk to him. Why? So I can get more alphabet soup answers? I'm going by the state statutes. Town's been licensing that business and all the other three that we used to have for 30 years that I know of.

That's time, Richard. Time? All right. Thank you, Richard.

So we need to find out what's going on because people are overstepping what they're allowed to do.

Good evening, sir.

Hi.

I want to ask you a question. I live in Sun Rock. We have a name and address. My name is Pedro Flores. I live in Sun Rock. What do you do in the project? Is the project with the pie? Somebody let the construction company across to my house. I come in here, do a lot of damage to my property. I come in here, and I talk to this person. He told me, he want to tell the company, he want to fix the problem. Okay. The problem never fix it.

Okay, that's fine.

I talk to him, evidently he don't do nothing. Do a lot of damage to my yard. Who going to pay for that? Because these people is there for more than five months. He is still doing the same thing. These people is qualified for do the kind of job? This is my question. Sir, what is your address? All you hire is these people, right? What is your address? My address is right there in Sun Rock, right there across to the other company. Junko is the company, the construction that is across to my house.

Okay.

Go over my glass, a couple times I have problem with the people, because I told them to go over the glass, because do it for no reason. Call the cop, the cop told me. I can say nothing. Evidently, it's protect for everybody. But the damage to my property, who going to pay for that?

Sir, can you send myself and the town manager an email and we will both look into it?

Yeah, but I come in here, I call many times, and nobody pay attention. You see how is this road? When you travel this road, you go like that. Why is it recent? The people not finish the job for five months. How long going to take it up?

It's the first I'm hearing of it. So if you can send me and Sean an email.

I come in here. I call a couple times. My wife call. I talk to this person because the police told me this is the person in charge. Evidently, nobody care. But nobody say how long I'm going to be there. Evidently, all you hire the people. It continue the problem. Do whatever I want. All the neighbor retire the same problem. Evidently, nobody do nothing.

Well, I appreciate you telling me, and if you can send me that information, I'll look into it with the top manager.

Yeah, but I told you, I told this person, I call here. This happened two months ago. The problem continue, continue, continue. Evidently, nobody care. I call here, somebody listen, no care. This is not a problem. We pay for that. This is not go out and any of you pack it. We pay for that. The question is, how long going to be the project? You don't know, right? Nobody knows.

It's the first I'm hearing about it, sir. I'm happy to look into it with Sean. We'll look into it.

And the other question, who going to pay for the damage? Because these people don't have to go close to my property for nothing.

Please send us the information and we'll look into it. Yeah, please.

Is it possible for this man to speak to Mr. Mulholland right now? Show Mr. Mulholland, he's the person who- I have picture, I take a picture. No, no, I believe you.

I'm trying to help you move forward tonight. I want to say one more. It's a pump right there. In every dirty thing, go the pump. In this pump, people go for fishing there. Evidently, nobody cares because I see a lot of cars there. Go checking all that because I see my house right there. Nobody cares.

It's the first time I'm hearing about it. I do care. If you could just let us know.

Kirsten's going to go out in the hallway and try to get the information.

Okay, yeah. You go out in the hallway with Kirsten, please.

And she'll be able to help you move this forward.

You can go on this street.

Please. I drive it. Thank you. Over 100 miles every day for my job. Yeah. Yeah, I never see somebody doing a John the Rock. You drive like that every single day. Nobody see that, except me.

Please, let Kirsten know your information and we will get back to you. Trying to help you. We absolutely will help you.

I can actually answer some of those questions.

Thank you. Anybody else with a public comment?

Good evening, sir. Good evening, counselors. Paul Skidlark, 20 Woodbine Drive. So I have three topics that I'd like to touch upon this evening. The first related to the adoption of the town manager job description. I know you mentioned that it wasn't going to be discussed or debated today.

I'm pulling it off the agenda. Okay.

It's not going to be discussed at all. While I'm here, I'd just like to kind of quickly address, if you don't mind. You know, I don't know what prompted the need at this time for a formal job description to be adopted. I'm also a little bit confused, I guess, as to why we have competing job descriptions, one from the town manager and another from Chair Dunn. I would suggest that in light of heightened tensions and pending legal matters between town counselors and town manager, that the adoption of a job description be postponed until after the March 2027 election. Dunn. I can think of no reason to add it to the growing public distrust.

If you say done, I'll take it. No, it's pulled off.

Understood. Okay, great. Thank you. So I'll move on to the next topic. My next topic is related to the petition letters that were approved and adopted by the council back in April, but were left with four blank signature lines by Councilors Paul, Faber, Dunn, and Bouchard. Today I forwarded, I hope you guys have received an addendum, to the original letter with the hope that the addendum will address your political concerns of having your signatures on petition letters of which you seemingly oppose the substance of the petitions themselves. As I've stated on a number of occasions back in March, in April, and in May, the voters of Lennon Dairy spoke loudly and clearly in favor of both Articles 27, which implores our state government to stop the practice of downshifting cost to the towns and the growth in property taxes that ensues. They also spoke loudly and clearly in favor of a red flag law legislation, which enhances public safety. Both warrants passed with over 70% support. You, councillors, were elected to this nonpartisan position to represent the citizens of Londonderry. You were not elected to this position as a Republican state rep or as a chair of the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance or for any other purely partisan reason. The absence of your signatures and subsequent comments indicate a clear political bias in an abdication of your duty to represent the will of the voters. So on behalf of Lundary voters, I'm again asking for five signatures on the amended letters in your possession. Lastly, I just wanted to mention to you, I'm also running for state rep, as I'm sure the five of you know. For way too long, we've had, the town of Lundary I think has been grossly underrepresented. by a mostly very static group of eight kind of hard right legislators. We witnessed continued erosion in our access to the ballot, attempts to keep college students from exercising their right to vote, legislation to allow guns on college campuses, rapidly rising property taxes due to state cost downshifting, attacks on our public education system with no limit EFAs and caps to property taxes that will go to public education, We've seen culture war legislation against the LGBTQ community, lack of funding to support adequate health care. On and on it goes. It's time that the other 50% of this town have some representation in Concord. I'm hoping to earn that necessary, the necessary votes, and hope that others will support my candidacy and or the candidacy of some others in town, like Isaac Fernandez, who I believe is here tonight, and will speak about his candidacy. But I appreciate your listening, and thank you, counselors, for your attention.

Thank you, sir. Anybody else in public comment? Good evening, Martha. How are you?

Good evening. Good evening, councillors. I'm Martha Smith, 38 Chester Drive. I just want to support Paul Skidlark and what he just presented. I think that that is very important. I think how all we feel. in londonderry was represented in those ballot uh citizens petitions and the fact that you could push that on to conquer just telling them this is what our our residents believe regardless of how you feel he was right when he said you didn't run for this job as a republican uh state rep or I'm just going to leave it at state rep. And I fully support what he just said. Thank you. Thank you, Martha.

Anybody else? Yeah. One moment. So is it my understanding that we cannot resign these documents or can we? Because it would be good if we could just put this to bed and have it out there. So the question I would have you ask the town manager is can we or can't we?

We could.

Okay, so have you put it out to other councilors to sign? I have not.

So you got this? I just got it just now.

Okay.

I literally just got it handed to me.

So I'm just saying to tell these guys that this is what's moving forward.

Yeah, I have it in here. I just got it five minutes when I got here.

Okay, so we're going to be asked to sign this tonight and then it goes back?

If you wish to, yes.

I just wanted to give you some sort of an answer. I mean, you guys have been asking and I think you deserve the answer or some sort of recognition of it.

Anybody else a public comment?

Good evening, sir.

Good evening.

My name is Isaac Fernandez from 10 Wall Circle. I am running for state rep. I'm also on the budget committee as of this year, thanks to the appointment of the town council. Learning a lot and settling in and I wanted to just follow what Paul said about the letter, and I appreciate what you just said, so I'll keep this on the shorter side. But I would ask that the council reconsider. Ted, I know you have signed the letter, I believe, so thank you for doing that. I'm a big guy, my background's finance, numbers, I like to look at things and examine things. And I did vote, I was one of the 76% of the town that voted in favor of sending a message to Concord to say we need to stop We need to restore some taxes, cut taxes, but stop downshifting these taxes on the property taxpayers in Londonderry. I'm a big supporter of that idea. I'd like to go represent the town and send that message myself. I'm asking for people's vote in November to do that. But in the meantime, it would mean a lot to me and I think to the town if we could have the full support of the town council in sending that message to Concord. So please do reconsider signing that letter. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else have public comments?

Seeing none, I will close with a comment. Up first.

Okay, Dan, I'll give you five minutes.

I'm going to take the time I need. I asked you to take five minutes, Dan, because we've got to move on.

I'll do my best as you keep taking up my time. Please. I just want to thank the public for coming out. during our primary. It was nice to see a lot of people coming out and got to talk to a lot of people. One of the things that happened during the primary, and I heard a lot about it, was that Councilor Faber and myself got a chance to sit down and try to talk about some of the issues that we're facing on this council. And I think people like seeing that, that we were communicating. And that's what it's all about. It's about trying to mend this council and mend the issues with the town manager and try to move forward. So I was told once by a very wise man that, you know, it's easy not to say anything if you see something that's going on that's wrong it's harder to speak up for it so i do speak up and um i'm going to speak this evening about our our legal bills all right i know we've talked about how expensive these legal bills are and uh and i've and i've brought it up mr chair about Communication. And I look at the legal bill on 8-4. There's a legal analysis. I, as a counselor, don't know what this legal analysis is. You've never communicated with us. I don't think, Counselor Paul, I asked her and she says she knows nothing about it. On 8-5, we have legal issues regarding actions of the town manager. What is that? Again, as a counselor, I have no idea the money that's spent here. $670, $335. Legal research. Legal research on what? This is so vague. When I get legal bills, it is broken down specific. So, why did we spend $670 on legal research? The interesting one is, on 8-13, a Zoom meeting with the special committee to draft a memo for the upcoming meeting. $1,250? What was discussed? Why are we not all being informed on this as a council? You know, I look at 817, telephone conference with Ron Dunn and Sean Mulholland.

Dan, I'm going to stop you right there. That's not right. That's not true. You did have a meeting. On 831, with legal counsel, you did ask all your questions.

So- That had nothing to do with this bill.

So I'm bringing- You did get communication.

He didn't tell us anything about what all this was, all this legal research. We have a subcommittee. you and the vice chair, and you guys, it's your responsibility to include everybody on this council. There's five of us, there's not two, all right? I look at 821, telephone conference with attorney Verrantes, $200. 825, another conference with this attorney. 827, another conference with this attorney regarding the status of the investigation. And it's interesting because on 831, he couldn't give us an update on this whole investigation. So legal research in anticipation of a meeting with the town council for $750. Mr. Chair, this is out of control. I know when Sean and I were talking about the expense of legal, there was like, there's no way it's $400. I mean, $400,000 that we're gonna spend this year. If you look at the way we're tracking, all right, at over $40,000 a month, do the math, $40,000 a month at 12 months, you're over $400,000 in legal expenses. So I'm asking, I'm asking that you share when you're getting an analysis, an opinion with all of us. It needs to be shared with all of us.

I agree, and we did. No, you didn't, because I don't know what these are.

Sean, you wanted to speak real quick? Yeah. Then I want to move on the meeting. Yeah, I'll be brief. Just to correct for the record, when you say $40,000 a month, those legal bills were 16 and 13. That's not $40,000 a month. The other ones are other issues not related to us. None of us showed up on the legal bills last month. So that's just not an accurate thing. And if you track that times 12, it's not $475,000. The other thing I'm going to strongly encourage, not even just for our own benefit, but disclosing and reading legal bills. There are open case items, not even related to any of this, anything with the town manager. There are open legal items. Some of them have been put in the paper. Some of them could accidentally just get disclosed here. It's not good practice to do that, and we're getting outside our attorney-client privilege. I just strongly suggest against that.

Sean, all I'll say is that if you shared with everybody, we wouldn't have that problem.

Go ahead, Deb.

So just two things. I did not get the analysis. I had no idea about the analysis until I saw it there. I will say it was my thing to request to speak to the lawyer. We did. Thank you for doing that. It was a waste of taxpayers' dollars, and I'm sorry. The man couldn't answer a straight yes or no question. He was horrible. That's all I got to say, and I'm sorry I wasn't involved in picking this attorney because I would have never done it. All right. No, I'm not done. I'm not.

I'm saying I'm saying.

And the other thing is, Sean, you're saying these things, but best practice of who from where? What are you talking about?

Any legal answer to you?

Well, find it for me. I've been looking. I don't see it written. Your guy, who I didn't like at all, actually said what I was saying was good governance, but we're not going to do it. So, you know what, this is scare tactics, because if I did put something in the paper, take me to court, because I did not do anything wrong.

I didn't say you did, Deb, just so you know.

Well, it was inferred.

I just wanted you to know that.

It was inferred by Mr. Farber, not you. So I'm just defending myself, which I feel I have the right to do. And I'm sure Sean's going to say something else.

Nope, I want to move the meeting on in a positive direction today.

But we have extra time because you did take off something on the agenda. And I'm glad you did because that would have been a waste of our time.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right, moving on. We're going to discuss board appointments and reappointments. Discuss the appointment of Gary Della Grotta from an alternate to a full time member on the conservation commission. Anybody have anything to discuss?

No, he's on the alternate now, so I think that's great. We've interviewed him before, so. I'll accept the motion then.

Second.

So moved.

So moved.

So moved and she had a second. Okay, so. Sorry. So Sean made the motion, Deb seconded. Any further discussion? All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Chair votes the affirmative. Gary, please see the clerk to be sworn in. Up next, we have two public hearings. First up, we have a public hearing to input, discuss, and approve adding alternates to the cemetery trustees. First up, presentation.

Thank you very much. This one, as I mentioned during the first reading, is pretty straightforward. The cemetery trustees are a small board. They're a three person board and they're elected. 289, 6, and 7, they do have the ability to request that the appointing board, the appointing authority, which in this case is the council, appoints up to two alternates to them. Those alternates, if the town council chooses to approve them, they would be appointed for one-year terms. The cemetery trustees is trying to meet quarterly instead of biannually now, and in order to effectively conduct their business, they need... People are busy. Getting a quorum is incredibly difficult. The meeting I went to for them, one of the members was absent. One had a hard out at 6 p.m., so I went through PowerPoint faster than I've ever gone through one before. And I speak quickly, so that should tell you something. So it would be... It is a request from them. It would give them more flexibility and more capabilities to perform their duties. At the same time as we need to update the RSA to include the cemetery trustees, because that never happened before, I also went through and corrected the list of boards, committees, and commissions, fixed various Scrivener's errors, erroneous references to RSAs, and updated the charter references in that particular section. And the second ordinance simply adds to the municipal code the description of the authority composition, organization, and charge of the cemetery trustees.

Does the board have any questions? All right, I'll accept the motion to open public hearing.

So moved.

Motion from Ted, second from Dan. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Chair votes in the affirmative. Anyone from the public wish to speak on cemetery trustees? Seeing none, I'll accept the motion to close public hearing. So moved. Motion from Ted, second from Sean. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Chair votes in the affirmative. What do we wish to do?

I think it makes sense to move forward to add these two alternates. A three member board can be very hard to navigate. to schedule these meetings, I think that would be a good move going forward.

I would agree, sir. Any further discussion?

I have a question.

I know that when we went through the alternates for the library, we had an issue. Is this going to be an issue at all?

No, this is the authority of the council. The council, if it wanted to add library trustees, they can do it in the same fashion. It chose not to do that for whatever reasons were at that particular time, and this is your authority. So you have the ability to either add alternates or not.

Okay, thank you. Any further discussion? I'll accept the motion.

So I move that the Londonderry Town Council hereby approves Ordinance 2026-11, adding the cemetery trustees to the municipal code and correcting outdated lists, references, and other errors. I have a motion from Sean.

Second. A second from Ted. Any further discussion? Seeing none. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Chair votes the affirmative, 5-0.

There's a second part of this. So I'll also move that the London Area Town Council hereby approves Ordinance 2026-12 describing the charge of the cemetery trustees, which actually I just want to take a brief look and make sure. Okay. So I have a discussion. No, I just wanted to look and make sure.

So I have a motion from Sean. Second. A second from Dan. Did you want to discuss further? No. Okay. Any other discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Shows the affirmative, 5-0.

All right.

Up next, we have another public hearing, receive public input, discuss and approve the application for the commercial industrial tax exemption for Purpose Energy. Mr. Mulholland, did you want to start off?

Yes, so we have the application that was submitted in accordance with the statute as well as our ordinance under RSA 72. We had that in front of you here at the stage. We had the first reading and now we have the public hearing component of that. There are a couple of things the council has to do. Match to make a determination of the public value, the public benefit. You have to make those findings. You have a draft resolution there. And by the way, in the motion left, the space blank, it's 16 if you choose to approve that. We are working with them on a separate agreement that will be a covenant to this regard to food waste that London area residents will be able to use. It'll be on their property. They will operate that and allow our residents free of charge to dispose of food waste, which is food waste that will not go into our waste stream and we will save on whatever tonnage that instead of going in the dumpster or the trash can, it'll go to their facility and they'll be able to process that and they are making gas out of that that they're selling. So they've agreed to do that. So we don't have to run any of that. So that's one of the public benefits piece. We pretty much have that resolved. It's just a matter of they have to show the diagram where they're going to pave a part where the cars can get off the road where they want to interfere with traffic and the cul-de-sac. So we've been having discussions over the last week to get that finalized. And I think we're pretty much there on that. The other thing that you have to do is if you make the determination that there is public benefit, you also need to determine what percentage is for how many years you would provide it. It's a Tier 3 request, and that's outlining the code. The documents are all part of the packet in there, and I'd be glad to answer any questions. The applicants are obviously here. They should talk about their project a little bit before you open up to the public, I would suggest to you.

Absolutely. Gentlemen, welcome. If you could just introduce yourselves. Yes. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the council. Thank you for having us this evening. My name is Ari Pollack. I'm an attorney with the Gallagher firm in Concord. I'm here tonight on behalf of Purpose Energy. To my right is Mark Riley, also with Purpose Energy. We did offer a presentation at the prior council meeting. It led to a significant discussion with council members. We don't want to repeat that or take your time tonight doing repetition of that presentation. What we would like to do instead is just make certain that the council is aware that some of the questions that we were left with at that meeting have been addressed in the form of a written email submitted to the manager. I'm sure it found its way to each of you.

So thank you for doing that.

You're quite welcome. But just to make sure your record is complete, I wanted to hit the highlights of that submission so that it can be paired with our prior presentation. Absolutely. There was a question about breaking down the job creation from this project, including both job descriptions and wage range. And that was provided in that email, a significant description both from Recycle Works and Purpose Energy in terms of the types of positions that they would be looking to fill. the description of those duties, the salary range, and even the benefits that would be carried forward with those positions. And this is based both on the experience of Recycle Works and Purpose Energy in the other locations where they operate in a very similar manner. So they have the track record to understand who they are when they're up and running and what help they'll need. This is, of course, after construction where, of course, we would also be hiring a significant amount of contracting companies to be adding value to the site. The types of companies that would want to locate near us if we were to build this form of plant, breweries are an obvious fit, and that has been the experience of the companies in other places. Milk, yogurt, cheese makers also would want to co-locate because we are a source of disposal for their waste stream, both in a convenient and in a green manner. and protein companies similarly would love to take advantage of proximity to a plant like this. We can certainly make predictions as to which companies are operating in the market and in the region and who would want to be co-locating near us. The good news is that the town's industrial park does have opportunity for those co-locations, and of course we would welcome them and welcome the products that they would bring to our doorstep. There was a question about permits in hand versus permits not received. In other words, how close are we to actually building something? Here are the list of permits that we have received. We've received a zoning determination, an air quality permit, FAA permitting or approval relative to the proximity of the airport, site plan approval conditionally received from the planning board. wetlands permit from the state, a conditional use permit also from the planning board relative to lot configuration. The Conservation Commission reviewed some of the environmental aspects of the project. We have an alteration of terrain permit from the state of New Hampshire. We also had a historic preservation review, which also carried through a fish and game wildlife and habitat review. And we are in line to receive our solid waste permit from DES. We've done significant work with that group and are on the doorstep. The permits we have not received also include the building permit, obviously, because we need to complete our site plan approval. and a wastewater permit plant most recently in discussions with the city of Manchester. They have changed some of their standards relative to how much and what they can receive, and we have an engineering exercise ongoing now to make sure that we can meet their guidelines. Will the property smell? We get that question everywhere we go. Thankfully, no. A number of officials from the town have had the opportunity to visit similar sister sites, both Recycle Works and Purpose Energy, and I think those folks can and have at the planning board and in other places. attested to the fact that the sites are clean, well-operated, do not smell, and in fact a number of them have restaurants right next door, and obviously those customers would not be coming in if there was unattractive odors associated with the facility. Have you started construction yet? No, we haven't. We would like to. How do you know that you will appraise at least as the value shown in the application? Frankly, it's an educated guess based upon work with not only other sites of similar nature in a similar region, but also work by a licensed appraiser. We won't know what the town thinks about valuation until your assessor has an opportunity to render an opinion, but we can certainly throw... and educated guests at it and have done so for you in the application. Those were the items that we took away from the last meeting. We tried to be comprehensive in our response and we're happy to take any questions or just stay quiet as the public hearing rolls on. Appreciate your consideration.

I have my- Yeah, please. We just want to go to the public first, right?

Do you want to go to the public first?

Yeah, we can do that and then we'll come back to you. I'll accept the motion on public hearing. So moved. Motion from Ted, second from Sean. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any from the public wish to discuss purpose energy? Martha, thank you.

I'm Martha Smith, 38 Shasta Drive. I happen to be on the utility committee here in Londonderry. And I am one of the people that did visit your plant up in Vermont. And I agree with what they said about it. The plant was very clean, the one that we went to. We did not detect any odor anywhere. So, and I love the premise, the premise of what they want to do in getting this kind of waste out of our waste stream, I think is excellent. So for all those reasons are good. Yeah. But I also noticed that that facility, and I realize that that facility is quite a bit smaller than your facility, will be here. But there was only two employees there. So in terms of bringing employment to the community, I don't know how much employment you're going to bring. I'm confused about that.

Do you want to ask that question? Pardon me? Do you want to ask that as a question then? Yeah.

You're welcome. I mean, I read some of this myself. They said something like 25 to 30 people. Based upon what I saw, I don't know what 25 to 30 people are going to be doing there. Although I think that's a boost if they hire people from Londonderry, great. But I don't know if you're bringing people in from other places or whatever. So that's number one.

The total number of employees is based upon both Purpose Energy's employment as well as Recycle Works. So the difference between what you saw up in Vermont versus what will be built here in Londonderry is that up in Vermont, we have a digester only. We have all of our waste streams are being generally piped into the facility. Correct. You know, we have people that are on site, but we also have a large network of employees within the area of Vermont that also support that facility. But the main source of employment for this project is Recycle Works. You know, the process of depackaging the food and beverages that come from grocery stores and food manufacturers is quite labor-intensive, and it requires not only skilled workers but also just laborers. So it's a combination of those folks. There's also a lot of movement of equipment within this facility that requires certified operators of heavy equipment. So I would say when you look at the total number of jobs, Purpose Energy is about four to five employees, whereas Recycle Works would be close to 25 to 30.

Okay, I did not visit Recycling Works facility. But my understanding has always been, since this project has been proposed, Is that all of that repackaging stuff is going to happen inside the building. And then from what I saw in Vermont, I thought it was going to go into pipes again and be piped to your digester.

That's exactly how it, that's the really nice thing about this project in Londonderry. Is that in a lot of places in the country where they have depackaging, it's not tied directly to a digester. So we do have extra transportation and things like that that will not be necessary in this situation. We'll be able to take that food waste, depackage it, and the food waste will go directly to the digester, avoiding smells and also the need for that material to be trucked again.

Okay, okay. So that was one about the employment. The other thing was, although I hear what you're saying with the plant that I visited was next to Ben and Jerry's. They shipped all of their waste over to this plant, worked ideal, right? We were told at one point in this process that Stonyfield Yogurt was going to be on board and you were going to be getting their waste. But then along the way I heard that maybe that's not going to happen. Can you tell me the status of that?

Is that- Well, obviously we've got a contractual non-disclosure with Stonyfield, so we really can't address our business partnership. Okay. But we obviously would, we hope to work with Stonyfield and so on. But Recycle Works also has a relationship with Stonyfield to manage their packaged materials as well.

Okay, so right now that's in negotiation and it's not finalized. Okay, so that would be a plus, but not quite yet. The other question that I had was, rejuvenating that whole area. Hey, that's a big plus for Londonderry. We all really want that to happen. I hope that you're correct, that you will bring all of these different kinds of businesses into town. We have several breweries in town. I have no idea what they do with their waste. I don't know if you've approached any of them. um about their their waste but the and the supermarkets that you mentioned are are good but we don't have a stop and shop we have a hannaford's uh we have a star market that's unfortunately and it makes me cry um kind of dying because market basket came to town any deals with market basket Again, we're not able to disclose the- Okay, well, I'm giving you a lot of business pointers here. I won't tell you what my background is. And so that was the other thing that bringing these businesses to Londonderry is great, but The assurances of that, I don't know if you can really give us assurances that that will happen. Clearly, yes, I think we would like that to happen. I can't speak for everybody here, but it sounds like a good idea to me. But those kind of assurances are important.

We understand that. And without naming names, we can at least share the experience we've had in other places, which is that when you build it, they come. These companies are looking for a more convenient and efficient way of handling their waste products. And when you set up near them, whether it's by pipeline or by truck. you are offering something that is a convenience to them, so they're happy to have it near them. The conversations that are happening with other folks in the community, whether it be yogurt or beer or supermarkets, they all would benefit from that convenience. I know. And that is why we think that they will be very attracted to working with this facility. I hope that's true. And let me just add one more thing. Some of those companies already work with Recycle Works in other areas and would be happy to have that same service available locally to their operations here. Many of the people that you've mentioned operate in multiple places. Okay. And they are familiar with the services offered in other places.

Okay, and this may be a closer facility. to where they are doing it now.

That's correct. Transportation and distance is a big factor in the waste stream management. And so it's harder for them to commit to something that's farther away. But the minute it pops up locally, it becomes a very attractive option.

Now all we need for your business. is a little more regulation to forcing people that they have to do this with their waste. But that's another day, another whole administration. I'm not sure we're going to handle that here tonight. Thank you. That's it for me.

Appreciate it. Murray, how are you tonight?

Ray Breslin, 3 Gary Drive. I just want to comment that basically what they're doing, I think, is a good idea. However, we still have some unanswered questions that I and others have brought up in regards to what is coming into this plant and where is it coming from. We've asked the questions about Is it coming from in the state of New Hampshire? Is it coming from out of state? And what percentage? We still don't know. And there's going to be a lot of trucking coming in and going out, okay? Some of it's going to be full coming in, some of it's going to be empty going out. However, some of it's going to be full going out too, because all of the packaging has to go out. And so I'm not taking position. up or down on this, but I think there's still a lot of unanswered questions. One of them being, apparently, they're asking for a tax, what do we call it? A tax incremental financing or whatever. Tax exemption. Exemption. Exemption, right, right. And yet, all of the All of the cost of this, finance of this is in process. They're working on that, but we really know nothing about it. Obviously, this is going to take investors in order to finance this, or at least I believe that's the case. But right up front, they're asking for a break. And I think that needs to be decided down the road a bit here because we really know nothing about when and if they're going to start any construction on this, which I believe is going to be up to whether or not they have investors to move forward on this. So there's a lot of unanswered questions still, I believe. So I don't know if you're going to make a decision on this tonight to give them a tax break on this. I think that should be down the road until we know further more about this. And once again, I think a biodigester taking food waste out of the stream, all of this is a great idea. But I still think there's a lot of unanswered questions. Thank you for allowing me to speak. Thank you, Ray.

Appreciate it.

Absolutely, sir. Go ahead. If you wouldn't mind a quick response to that. If we don't build the project, then there's nothing to assess and nothing to exempt. So what we're asking for is relief based upon the premise that there's something there to provide relief to. We have invested very heavily in the regulatory process, both at the state level and here at town. You heard the list of permits. Each of them are individual filings with experts and consultants involved. And we wouldn't do those things if we were not sincere about pursuing the project and delivering the project. These projects need support. Frankly, they are green energy projects that are dependent on not only surrounding businesses to use the services, an employment force ready to take the jobs, but they also need this kind of support to not only show investors that the community is embracing this and wants this investment, for the benefit of the tax base plus the other businesses plus co-location and bringing revitalization to existing industrial parks. But they also need it in order to finance the construction and build. And so we're not asking for this because, gee, we think it would be great to make more money. We're asking for this because we need it to make ends meet and to put the project on and in the ground.

Anybody else from the public wish to discuss purpose energy? Seeing none, I'll accept the motion to close the public hearing. So moved. Motion from Ted. Second from Dan. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Chair will stay affirmative.

Bring it back to us that you want to start have 2 questions about what that gets into her great many questions. You mentioned earlier about wastewater with the city of Manchester. What are you anticipating for wastewater and what kind of usage are you going to use for the wastewater.

Yeah, I wish I had those engineering statistics for you tonight. I don't I we certainly could get them. They've all been part of the planning process that we presented to the planning board and have been working behind the scenes with the engineering group. I guess what is the waste water used for?

What water are you using at the facility?

So as part of the digestion process, you the solids that you know come in I mean food waste is primarily water and so all we're the are the effluent from our plant is really clean water and we need to we we we discharge that typically to a public public treatment facility okay and so we're in the process of working with the town of Londonderry and the city of Manchester to satisfy really the new requirements that the EPA applied to the city of Manchester just a few months ago. So that new information, that change spurred some last minute changes.

My very layman's understanding of industrial waste streams is that the conversation has less to do with what we are sending than how much they can receive. And it's not so, what Mark is explaining essentially is that our digestion process results in relatively clean water and relatively clean wastewater. And the other byproducts are essentially a dried residual of the foods and organics that are essentially dehydrated at that point and the natural gas that, of course, is the product that we're pursuing.

Well, thank you for explaining that process for myself and everyone else at home. Another question is, if you have all the permits or are hoping on, what kind of timing are you looking at for starting construction?

Yeah, we'd like to get started next spring and finish in 2028. In 2028? Yes.

So about a year and a half-ish?

Yeah. I would say it's a 12 month build.

Okay. And then I guess the other piece that probably wasn't entirely looked at was if people from the town actually start using the drop off dumpster that you guys will be establishing. In a way it could be saving the town over time money on our waste management contract because we're not putting as much waste into our trash. And so we won't have to be getting charged as much back by waste management. And we're actually, in a way, helping the environment, but also helping our tax bill at the same time.

Yeah, 100% correct. We don't really know at this moment how much residents will take advantage of that opportunity, but it does feel like a good fit. I think some people will use it often. I think others won't go there at all. Right, yep.

Great, thank you. That's all I had. Deb?

Nobody else?

Go ahead. I think Dan has questions, but you were up first.

Okay, so I have less than last time. And I'm sorry, I'm here to make sure that we do the best we can for the taxpayers. And I think what you're doing is great, it's a great concept. So I'm surprised. that there aren't a lot of entrepreneurs out there knocking on your door saying, let's do stuff. But the first question is actually mine. Martha had got up and asked you a question. How old is that plant in Vermont?

The plant in Vermont? Well, so we have three plants in Vermont. The first plant was built in 2009. The second plant was completed, made operational in October of 2024, and that's in Middlebury, Vermont. And the plant that was visited next to Ben and Jerry's was completed in December of 2024. Okay.

So those two are relatively new. Correct.

We also just completed construction of a large facility in Ohio.

Well, this goes back to the smell stuff. really hasn't been that long. Everything's still new and shiny. Things haven't been breaking down and having issues. So that still plays in my head, is the long term of it.

We do have those older, more established facilities.

But they didn't visit those.

I understand that, but odor has not been a documented issue at those facilities.

And my question to him, you weren't here Ari, and excuse me for sounding a little fresh. The question is, I wanted a plan from them if it should occur in the future. So granted, they didn't happen, there are no smells now, today. Just saying, something happens and there are smells 5, 10, 11 years from now. What would your responsibility be to addressing that issue? That's what I was trying to get to.

Understood.

To protect the people of this town.

Understood, and I did. observed the meeting last time and I heard the answer to that question which was that the solid waste permit the state issues is very heavily regulated. There is no handoff. There is no washing their hands of it. That group is involved going forward and I understand that there's no assurance of who's doing what but that is their job.

I understand that too, but you're looking for us to give you a break on taxes.

Yes.

I'm looking for protection to make sure that the money is well invested.

Understood.

So the first question is, what is the total tax revenue the town would lose over the exemption period? Approximately. I know you probably don't have the exact numbers, but this is for the public's benefit, not necessarily the people on the board.

It's in the packet. It's a spreadsheet in the packet. It was in the packet.

I understand that, but it's not necessarily for us on the board. It's for the people who can't see these things on it. You think you can see this on TV? You're out of your mind.

It's in the packet, and they didn't calculate that anyway. Why do they want to have to calculate that? It's fine. Yeah, so- And you can go online on the website and click it.

So why can't we just say it here? Like the total.

Well, it depends. If you look at it, it's by year, obviously. It also depends on what percentage you issue to them. So we just put in the numbers and just drew them down. That's not necessarily how you're going to do it. And it's also going to depend on what the local school tax rate is and what the town tax rate is. We just put it in as it is. So every year that's going to change. Nobody knows what that's going to be. So every year that, if you do it over a period of ten years, if you do it over a period of five years, every year that will change. It only includes those two components. Remember, there's four components of the tax bill. So it doesn't include the county, it doesn't include statewide education property tax, which as you know right now goes right back to the school district. So it only includes the local, the school local, and the municipal portion of it. And that's just the estimated numbers based on the tax rate as it is.

I'm happy to do some guessing for you, but it's no better than guessing.

And that's all I'm asking for, is approximation so people can understand.

Understood. I'm about to tell you. It's only my guessing. It's not the manager's guessing. Don't hold him to my guessing. But my guessing, based upon the spreadsheet and based upon a 10-year Tier 3 exemption, would be a tax payment over that time, of something on the order of $2.5 million and a savings to purpose of something on the order of $600,000. So the town is well ahead as that graduation of the exemption expires over that period of time, over the lifetime of the exemption. It starts at 50%, but it goes to zero. And after that 10 year period, the exemption is gone and the business pays for it.

And I appreciate you doing that because those are the numbers, the people in the audience, Need to hear the people who are sitting here right now, need to hear.

And let me just underscore again, I'm doing my best to interpret somebody else's spreadsheet. So dangerous ground, but I'm willing to do it because you asked the question.

And that's all we can ask for. Nobody's going to hold your feet to the fire.

I appreciate that, thank you.

So I also had a question here, is who verifies the final assessed value?

So again, maybe I'm stepping on toes here. The assessor does that.

Our assessor does that.

The town assessor. We certainly could file an abatement like any taxpayer in town, but the number comes from the town.

Okay, and does the town get any protections, the public any protections if things don't materialize? So in the middle of this project, We gave these breaks, we lost this money in supposed taxes, right? And it doesn't come to fruition. You don't get your investors, it falls apart. The economy can do crazy things. We're watching it every day.

I do believe that the agreement is conditioned upon actually delivering the project.

Okay, so that- Covenants that are required to be filed, that be filed with the registry of deeds.

I'm sorry, Mr.

There are covenants that are required to be filed with the registry of deeds. They talked about so many jobs they're going to provide, the public benefits. Okay. The food waste, if that's something we agree to, they have to provide that for the entire time of the exemption. And that covenant gets filed with the registry of deeds. Thank you.

So you saying that, so does that mean no matter who owns the company that follows it, so if they sell it to some other Corporation, for whatever reason, all of those provisions that we request follow along with it.

And that's per state statute. Okay. Again, they have to meet the covenants that are required. Otherwise, they lose that exemption. And in fact, there's penalty sections in the statute. If they don't comply with that, we can go back and go after back taxes.

Okay, thank you. And then I guess I'm a little concerned with the drop off program. With that agreement, and it's kind of following along Ted's line of thinking, I think. What happens if people don't do this? We lose a benefit, so what do you have to replace it?

At the moment, nothing. We think this benefit will be used. We think it will be appreciated and it is a service that we can pretty easily offer and provide. It was popular with the planning board during that public hearing. and it's something that we've been discussing from the beginning. And I'm all for it, but we all know how people can be. I don't know whether it will be heavily used.

I have a trash can empty right here, and next to it is like a pile of trash. I mean, we know how they are. Just saying. And I worry about rats coming because that tends to be a problem when you have.

We can take care of it. We can maintain it.

we can incorporate that waste into our facility but we can't force people to use it okay so but do we have that already written down somewhere what you plan on you do taking care of you have a copy of the the contract proposed contract but again when they wrote that they said that the container was going to be on town property and that's something we i did not agree to so they have subsequently moved that that's why we have to finalize that Right.

It's going to be on their property. We have agreed to put it on our property.

So now it's back.

It is.

Okay. Right. And they've got the signage. They've got to put all those things in there. And then the only difference is they've got a sidewalk in there. We don't need a sidewalk there. What we need is more pavements so cars can get off the road. That way trucks can get into their facility and they're not in people's way. So we just have to finalize that. I already had a discussion with DPW about that this morning. So I think we're pretty close to getting that finalized.

Okay, so I mean, the truck issue is still another issue, and that also brings about noise. Trucks are not quiet, they're not cars. And one truck equals 84 cars, and they do a lot more damage. And I know you're not the only truck in place up at the airport, I know this. And I'm not looking for just you guys to do this. a community kind of thing but we have to take in mind the wear and tear of the roads and the infrastructure up there um because one truck equals 84 cars and if you've got a ton of trucks we're talking a lot of infrastructure that's going to need to be done on a more regular basis and again i will reiterate i understand you're only a percentage of the amount of trucks that are up there but i want to know like do we have any fail safe that the roads or you will help with the roads besides taxes to make sure that this is not going to fall apart and crumble.

We're going to pay our taxes like every other business. And I think we just went through the exercise of explaining that it's a big number over time. It is. And obviously this exemption we're asking for will phase itself out and we're a full pay. And we know that the town is responsible about maintaining public roads We also went through the entirety of the site planning process where we talked about traffic and mitigation and management and one of the reasons that we at first were hesitant to have this recycle container on our property was just because of the need to manage the trucks coming and going and making sure that there's room for them to enter and exit safely and and so that was one of the things that we were very heavily focused on going through the planning process i don't know if you've seen it but it's an oddly configured lot And it required some engineering to make sure that things would move smoothly. And truck entrances and exits and maintaining that safety of entrance was the lead item in that conversation.

Right. And again, back to me, I know trucks are better. But again, some people have poorer trucks if you have somebody driving with their stuff and they leak out. odors, gross stuff on the ground that we need to just try to figure out. And maybe some infrastructure could go in up there that would better improve it before it happens to give us a little bit of a comfort buffer before.

I know I can't ask you for anything, I'm just putting out ideas. I just wanted to share with you, if you or other council members weren't aware, The ownership of Recycle Works went to the public hearing in front of the planning board and explained their qualifications for driving their vehicles, explained their standards for their workforce. And at least it was my takeaway, and you can verify this with whomever you'd like, that The planning board was very impressed with the description of services, the way in which they operate, and the manner that they manage their workforce. It's just, I can't tell you the future, but I can tell you it hasn't been an issue in the other places where they operate.

I just remember growing up in Revere, and just the grossness, and we had to have sweet watches all the time.

That might have been a few years ago, Deb.

Hey, hey, you're right behind me.

When I know it.

Thanks for having a little levity. So I mean, I'm for this, I shouldn't say this, I'm for this project. I think it's a great idea.

Thank you.

I'm just trying to do everything I can possibly do, make sure all the T's are crossed, so please don't get mad at me.

I haven't been the slightest bit offended yet.

There's still time? So in the long term, the goal is to grow the tax base while supporting this project. And there are clear benefits to the community for it. I guess I'd like to be able to see a final exemption schedule. What is that thing there, right? Yeah, it's on the floor. That's it. I'd like to see the final schedule. That is the final schedule. Those are exact numbers, Sean?

No. No, I have no idea what the tax rate's going to be from one year to the next. I don't even know what the tax rate's going to be in October.

So are you going by 2027, 2028? No, what we have right now.

That's all we have. What we have right now.

Yeah. That's all we have.

Every year, whoever's sitting in these chairs and whoever the voters are, they'll decide how much we're going to spend and what our taxes are going to be. What you have to decide is what the exemption percentage is going to be over whatever period of time.

That's what I said, the final exemption schedule.

So the final exemption schedule is in the resolution in terms of what percentage each year that you're going to provide. You have to do that. Either five or ten year.

What tier they're going to be on.

Right.

Well, they're asking for Tier 3 because the dollar amount of the project fits into that category. But you still have discretion to say it's going to be 10 years, 5 years, 3 years, 7 years. You can't do any more than 10. And what the percentage is going to be each year can't be more than 50% in that year. So you have to decide those things.

Okay, so that's what we're actually going to be deciding tonight?

Number of years. It's up to you. We can lower these numbers.

Yes.

Okay.

So I would only add, just because it took me a minute to digest this as well, no pun intended. When you have exemption year one through 11 and then the next column, effective exemption percentage, not the right, right, that one. That is the request, right? That it's it's it's 50 percent in year one and that that phases out over the 10 year period so that in year 10. It's only a 2%, if you go back to the column on the left side, only a 2% break in the tax bill. And then in year 11, the phase out is complete. There's zero discount, and the tax bill is paid in full from then on, annually.

I'm just trying to- In that scenario that we proposed, I mean, you get to decide all of that.

Okay, give me one more second.

Do you want me to come back to you? No, no.

Okay. And I think we covered this already. What protections does the town have if the promises to the public benefits like the drop off program, the waste processing program do not materialize? And do we have a ballpark at how much money we could potentially save? In our waste department. It'll depend on you. By taking this, I know it depends, but.

Right, but see the thing is, usually that food waste is heavy, because it's got a lot of water content. No, I understand. As they talked about. So we pay by the ton. So the more of that we can get out of our waste stream, the more people we can go to drop this off there. I mean, that's real value.

No, I totally agree. Like I said, I agree with this. I just want to make sure everything is in place before we pull the plug that everybody's protected, you guys and us.

That number, Deb, is really unpredictable right now. Without knowing how much people are going to use it, it's hard to predict upon how much of a potential reduction with our contract with waste management.

Do we have an idea how many businesses, how much they dump into our sewer? And if those businesses could be the first ones to be convinced somehow to use this facility, how much that would take out of our?

There would probably have to be a deeper analysis that cannot be ran right now. John Trottier or potentially the next person after that would have to do a major analysis upon that.

There's a state law that passed, I think it was two years ago, that requires them to dispose of food waste at a facility if one is located within, I think it's 25, 50 miles. I forget what the statute says. Okay. So like your restaurants and your grocers that produce a certain quantity of it, they have to dispose of it at a facility. It doesn't say it'll be this one, but they would have to dispose of it at a facility.

And would the town be sending a letter to these people, certified, saying this is what you have to do?

We're not in that regulatory change. That's the state of New Hampshire. Our job is to educate people. We have the Utilities Committee, the Solid Waste Committee to help do that, to get the word out. That's one of their primary missions, and you can be sure they'll be doing that.

Okay. All right, I'm done. Thank you guys. I would say it was easy, right?

Dan?

Yes. I think this is a great idea to reduce the waste in the landfill. You're going to be using our sewer system. Who's paying to upgrade that sewer system?

Right.

Are you going to be paying for that or are we going to be paying for that?

The answer depends upon what upgrades are determined to be necessary, and that is still in process with both the town and the city of Manchester. If it is an improvement that is necessitated by our project, then we will obviously be participating. But I don't know the answer to that yet, and there are multiple consultants that are working on that now. They've been engaged both by the applicant and the town, and I believe the city of Manchester as well.

Okay. How much truck traffic do you estimate that is going to be going back and forth at this facility every day, daily?

It was presented as part of our planning application. Unfortunately, I wasn't prepared to speak to that today.

We did submit a traffic consultant study that was reviewed by town staff and, I believe, a peer reviewer as part of the planning board process, and it's all part of the planning record. Okay.

And you mentioned, you know, you could file a tax abatement, and I guess I get concerned about that when you're looking for a tax break, and now you're looking for possibly tax abatement.

No, I wasn't saying we're going to, and I know we don't want to. I'm just saying that because the assessment is in the town's hands and not in our hands, there's the potential for disagreement. But what we've used for this exercise is our values.

So we talked about to are we going to talk about the tax exemption separately or is it now we are we just want to make sure they're you're also a person for them to bring back to the board and okay.

Any other anybody have any more questions for us.

I guess for people at home who may not have been here before or in the crowd can you I guess to find the the food waste that you'll be taking and the separation part of that I think some people may just want Better for clarification here now.

That's probably your question. Yeah. So sadly in America, 30% of all the food that goes to a grocery store or a convenience store leaves there as waste. mostly packaged waste, vegetables, frozen foods, all those things ultimately become waste. A lot of cases, they go to a landfill, which luckily here in the state of New Hampshire, it's no longer allowed. We will be able to take that food waste that comes from pre-consumer waste from grocery stores, convenience stores, so on and so forth, manufacturers of food, depackage that, and then put it into our digester to create renewable energy. and to create a clean water that goes down the drain, and a fertilizer, which we will apply to farms and to composters and so on and so forth around the region.

And that's what happens at the recycling facility that you'll have there is the separation of the food waste.

Yeah, so the facility will, depending on the type of packaging, whether it be a beverage or food packaged at a grocery store, there's equipment that our partner recycle works will be responsible for operating and maintaining that removes the packaging of that material, allows the organics to come to us.

and then the recycle the recyclable material gets can be recycled and and anything that's non-recyclable would ultimately go to a landfill or incinerator so for example if when this goes through and if people were to bring their items from at home what kind of manner would you guys want that to be brought in like in a separate trash bag with any food waste that's in there or is it Do you want it still in potential containers or how would you guys want that done?

Ideally, it would be unpackaged. They call it source separated. In this case, source separated at home or at businesses where really it's just the food waste in a container. But we also recognize that Some people are not very good at doing that. That's the benefit of having our partner Recycle Works there. The same equipment they use to de-package equipment, de-package material can be used to remove the contaminants to the food waste and deliver as much of the organics to the digester as possible.

So say, for example, someone fills up their trash can with their food waste from the week. Yep. Would it be appropriate in that kind of manner to fill it up in a bag and then bring those bags to the container? Correct. And basically any food waste, you know, pizza crusts, leftover strawberries, anything throughout the week, leftover soup, whatever it may be. Yep. That would all be going in.

Anything that, you know, a lot of folks do at home, composting, all the stuff that you would typically put in a compost container is what we would look for.

I don't think composting may be as big as it is down here compared to Vermont, so not everyone may not be fully in that practice just yet. I'm not from Vermont, but I'm just saying.

Food that they would throw away could come to this.

Wonderful, thank you for the clarification. One more. Go ahead, Deb.

So as you were talking, I was thinking, I want to go back to what Martha said. She brought up a very good point. We're hoping, we're going to give you this break, and or anticipating some sort of growth in that area, because there's a lot of open space, be it breweries or restaurants, as you said. God knows they won't come to the other place that you The thing is, I'm really hesitant about this. I mean, it would be nice if you came here and even couldn't give us the names, but could say, you know what? We've got five solid, or three solid, or even two solid new businesses who would be moving here, opening up here just because of this. But I'm not hearing that at all. And we don't even know about Stonyfield.

Yeah, I don't think they can say that to us, though.

I understand that. I understood what you were saying. But it would be nicer to know that there was some sort of, we don't need to know who they are. We just need to know that there's some sort of real commitment. I mean, because what if we do all of this and then there's nothing?

You would still be assessing the plant and you would still be receiving significant tax revenue. But I can say this. I can't name names. I can't tell you how many. I can't tell you when. I can't tell you who. But I can tell you that nobody would invest the kind of money that this plant requires to be constructed and operated without a very solid business plan that will be supported by the businesses that surround it. Keep in mind that transportation distances are a real driving factor in where you put your waste. And so all I can tell you is.

Part of the requirements for this is supposed to be the benefits, what's coming new. They already exist. We're already benefiting from them.

We can't foretell the future. We can't predict the real estate market. We can't predict what the economics will be. And I don't think that we can- I want to bring it back to us and discuss this.

So, John, you have another comment and then I can let these guys go and we can talk?

I'll let Ted finish. I'm just trying to say we can't have them be beholden to other businesses coming to town like that. They don't control those other businesses like that.

Go ahead, John. So pretty much this business, Let's say there were no businesses contributing. I don't think you'd do very well. I think you're counting on this business having places that have waste. It's a dependency. It's an input to your business. So if nothing was going to come around there, you wouldn't be there.

That's exactly right. And we also know that we're partnering with a known entity that has a track record in other places, and people know who they are, what they offer, and they will be happy to bring it to a more local place that doesn't require as much trucking. So it all fits together nicely, and it presents the opportunity we're trying to take advantage of.

Yeah, if I tried to fill in the blanks, I would say, if I'm getting a business that's going to input solid waste, I better have a pipeline of solid waste, and if I'm investing this amount of money, I probably know that there's some coming along the way.

And you wouldn't have gotten to this point without knowing those things, right? Given the amount of investment that we've had to date, the number of permits that have been required, and the number of hours of experts and consultants necessary to bring it forward. It's just not something you'd invest in.

Let's bring it back to us as a board here. Let's talk about it.

So I understand what you're saying, Sean, just to continue the dialogue. But that's existing, and according to the rules to get this thing, there are certain criteria. And one of the criteria, besides employees, is benefits to the community, right? So the benefit to the community is potentially bringing in new business. We already know that the benefit to the local industries around here, but that saves them money, and they're already paying full boat on taxes. They're not getting 50% off. So they're getting a deal for using this, so they don't have to drive as far. We don't know if a lot of the things might be out of state. Massachusetts, right over the border, coming up here to use this place. And that's fine, I guess. But is that what you want? Do you want all these trucks? Do you want the unknowingness? And are you willing to give up that 50% and say, yes, I believe that they're going to maybe fulfill something here? So that's to me where I struggle because it's all this maybe, pie in the sky. Again, I like the business. I like the concept.

But there's no real- So the best way I can answer your question, Deb, is 50% of nothing, if they don't come at all. At least we have 50% tax coming in, right?

And what after those ten years, the business closes and fails or moves to another state, what did you get? You lost. You don't know that's not going to happen. Could be a whole new thing in swill removal for all I know.

You're right, we don't know.

And so you have to do what's right for-

Right. Good job.

I just ask, what would you propose?

I personally, I would not start with the 50%.

That's me. That's how that that's how it works. That's how the plan works. I think we can alter the percentage.

I was just told that we can change it.

right you do have the authority to do that yes it's a case-by-case basis case-by-case to me there's just too many hypotheticals well and the reason the reason i'm asking is because we need specifics of you to we approve it so if you said not 50 what i just want to hear what you're thinking i don't know it's designed to be able to be progressing backwards over time and so that it's slowly then benefiting the town

every year maybe it is that's how the math works still say maybe yeah okay so when i look at this and i look at our budgets i look at our cost for our schools and everything uh I asked a simple question, truck traffic, how much is that going to be daily? Yeah, it's nice to bring in something compared to nothing. But how much are we going to be paying down the road when we're going to be looking at fixing these roads? It is not cheap to be fixing roads. Very costly. So I look at that and I say, all right. He said $600,000. I was looking more at $500,000. And it's nice to say, you know, in 10 years, the town's going to collect, you know, $2 million.

It's 2.9, Dan.

Okay, 2.9. Well, I can tell you in 10 years, not counting any increases that we might be facing, I'll be paying over $800,000 in taxes and I don't have any big trucks or anything like that beating up our roads on a daily basis. i'm having a i'm struggling with this this whole concept of giving tax breaks um to businesses that want to come in here all right and i know that it's like well it's better than what we're getting now compared to on the land but i also look at How much is this going to cost us on road repairs? How much is, you know, there's a lot of costs that go to it that we're not even thinking, all right, that it's going to impact. So I'm just, I have not been able to say to myself, yeah, this is a good idea because I look at it and Martha brought it up. You know, how many jobs are you going to have? uh, bringing in here. If I look at the public benefits, you know, it creates needed services or facilities, which are not currently available in town. Yeah, I guess so. Um, I mean, you and I talked earlier, Ron, and we said, you know, there are people that bring their, their waste down to Sunnycrest. Okay. So that Sunnycrest provides a plate, a thing like that. If you want to bring your, your waste there, um,

But they have a small scale. Right. They're trying to get it so that we can take more waste out of the system and save the time, money overall.

But when I'm listening to all this, when I'm listening to all this, I'm also saying, you know, go back to Deb's point. It'd be nice to know, yeah, we're going to have four or five companies that are coming here. Can't tell you who they are. Or we're going to... Get waste from, you know, 15 local companies around here, restaurants or grocery stores, breweries, whatever. We don't get that number. You know, it all depends. And I see this more as somebody that's going to come from out of town, out of state, bringing their stuff here at our expense of our roads. So... I just don't. I am not on board with giving any tax credit because I don't have any answers.

The only thing I would say is that they mentioned trucking. If they have an option of not trucking. 20 miles, that would save... I know, but I'm saying it would intrigue people to come to them.

Well, Ron, it's like, okay, Martha brought up the thing with Stonyfield, and I heard that also at the beginning. We're going to get from Stonyfield. And it's like, well, we can't discuss that. That's fine, and I understand that, but that's their choice, and I have to go by what information I get Sean go for it no I'll ask you the same question what would you propose I'm not on board on anything on any text break right now I have not gotten my answers to feel comfortable to say yes I'm comfortable with this I think you know me by now. I do my homework on it, and I research things, and I have not been able to say to myself, this, giving a tax break to this is going to bring in this company, this company, and it's going to reduce our waste. I understand we want to reduce our waste with waste management, and that's a good thing. I just don't see people... putting their stuff in a baggie at home, their liquids and everything else, and driving up. And you think about this, all right? You're going to put it in there, and you're going to drive up to the airport. Well, you're kind of defeating the whole purpose because now you're burning fuel and going on our roads. So I'm not sold on it. I like the concept of it. Don't get me wrong. I think it's a great idea. I just cannot get to the point of saying, yeah, you guys should get a tax credit. I asked you about the sewer. Well, it all depends. Well, I'm not going to give you a tax credit and then find out we're going to end up having to pay for sewer upgrades for your system. So, yeah.

So, Dan, you're not happy with any option that we were given?

No, I'm not on board to give any tax credit whatsoever. Okay. Not in our situation that we're facing.

So the first time I was on council, Sorry, this whole thing came up with Mr. Malaguti, we were going to put this in place. I was adamantly against this whole thing then, because this whole thing, this tax breakdown thing was created for areas like in Nashville and Manchester that were blighted to take buildings that were falling apart, encourage the absentee landlords or the owners to improve their building, to enhance the area. That's what this. that we're doing right now was originally created for. And I'm going to go back to saying I was against it then. I brought it to the council the first year I was up here. I said we should get rid of it. We had nobody take advantage of it until the very end when it was about to close and somebody came in, we know who it was, who came in and all of a sudden there was like four of them, bang, bang, boom. And they were very large businesses that, in my opinion, They didn't need the help of fixing up a business to improve their business, to bring in better money, to help them be a better piece in the community. This to me, this whole thing, and I agree with Dan, is just to benefit the business. And, you know, that's how I see it. And I just think that, yeah, okay, well, something's better than nothing, right? But you think about this. I mean, somebody at the election said to me, and I'm not going to say who it was from or anything, but said a certain company that manufactures bathroom fixtures and things like that has a big establishment here in Londonderry was going to go to Amherst. Really? Really? Because they got a long drive to get to the airport. They have a long drive to get to 93. They got a long drive to get to where they needed to go. This was a perfect location. You got to take into consideration we're not like other towns. We have two accesses on the highway. You've got an airport. You've got access to the coast. We have a lot of infrastructure here for these businesses. So you know what? If they don't want to be here, they don't want to benefit from what we bring to the table as a community, then we have a lot of bills we have to pay and you know this. And doing things like this to me, I mean, we both should be bellying up to the bar. It should be an equal partnership. And this, to me, I see no benefit for the town except for you saying we're going to get a little bit of something as opposed to nothing. And eventually, maybe, if they still vibe, if the whole thing doesn't change, the industry doesn't change, we might be able in 10 years to reap the benefits. But in 10 years, that small bit of money is going to be worth a heck of a lot. It's not going to be worth as much. Because our bills are going to be up a lot higher. Salaries are going to be higher. That money is still going to be the same. So you're not benefiting.

It's not going to be the same because it's going to fluctuate with the tax rate like Tom said. No, I just want you to know.

I understand. But what I'm saying about being the same is it's not like the economy is not going to freeze in time and say, well, what you lost back then is going to catch up here because it's not going to. Correct.

Go ahead, John.

So I'll disagree with part of that. In the end of the day, I think this is a good thing for the community. I think people have came up during the planning board and also spoke about the aspect of this, the environmental aspect of this, the energy aspect of this, the aspect of this that does have a business benefit to this community. And in May, and I'm not going to bet and count for sure, a whole ton of businesses are going to come around there. You're exactly right. They could come from out of town, that's a possibility. The other aspect of this is, besides that community benefit, we're looking at How do we do the best tax rate and do the best for our town that we can do? And that's really what we're looking at here. And it's not just so as simple as we're a great town, everybody's going to want to come here. We're competing with other towns who may do similar things. So it's not one for one, but it's also not give away the whole farm. And I've seen these things and I've heard feedback over my three years here on the council where They've said we've given away too much on this. And I tend to agree with that. I think we need to do something because doing nothing is just, we're completely not competing. Go put it in dairy or put it somewhere else. And if I were a business owner, that's right where I'd go. But I don't know that we need to do the extent of what we've done in the past. And so for me, I'd like to see something lesser of one of these. So you're thinking three or five years? There's a five-year option. There is a five-year, but I guess for me, if I off the cuff, and I think this is up for discussion, and that's why I was asking Deb and Dan kind of what they were thinking. I mean, personally, I'd like to see, you know, if you take the bottom option, you take one through four and you minus about 7% of it. So it's 43%, 33%, 21, and 10 for four years. I'd like to see something like that, maybe. I mean, this is up for discussion, but I just don't want to do what we've done in the past and completely... I think there's some aspect to this as a good community, but I think there's some aspect, and we've got to be a good partner and invest with businesses, and there's balance here between all this just all-or-nothing scenario. Just one more thing. Yeah, please.

This is just to go with what you said, Sean, about you brought up dairy, so I'm going to bring it out there. In the one year... There's been an expansion of a big company over there, another huge company coming, no tax breaks, no benefits. They got one, two, three restaurants, no tax breaks, no benefits. So how is Derry being able to get five that I know of, that I'm aware of through the economic development person over there, and getting that without doing anything, and yet we have to? That's my point. Who are we competing with, Amherst?

I don't know that we have to on every one. That's what I'm saying.

I mean, who are we competing with? Litchfield?

Windom? I don't know that we have to in every one. I know that there's not anaerobic digesters in every community in this town or in this state.

Well, I'm not even talking that. I'm talking this whole thing in general. This is a unique business. I understand. Yeah. But I'm just saying in general.

I'm not disagreeing with you on those aspects of it. I think we can do better than we've done in the past on these tax breaks. I'm not denying that. But I also think zero is unrealistic.

I am willing to look at the other numbers, like you said. Yeah. But- In a whole, I really think the council should evaluate this. This has been here, what, two years? This is the first one we got in, what, two years?

First.

Here. The first evaluation for this. It's not the first one that's taken advantage of it. But in two years, there hasn't been anybody. And the only ones that were were New Balance, I think, took it, and somebody else took it.

Yeah. So, Sean, I don't disagree with you. It's a good business concept. I think it's a great. So, to me, it's not the business that I'm concerned with. What I'm concerned with is giving a tax break because when we give a tax break, what we don't collect falls on our taxpayers and I don't want our taxpayers PICKING UP THE TAB, ALL RIGHT? WE'VE SEEN THAT TOO MUCH IN THIS COMMUNITY WHERE, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPER OR SOMEBODY COMES IN AND THEY WANT TO DO X, Y, AND Z, AND WE DON'T HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE AND SAY, YOU GOT TO PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE HERE ON THESE ROAD PROJECTS. WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THIS, AND I'M GOING TO SAY IT AGAIN, ALL RIGHT, ROADS ARE NOT CHEAP. ALL RIGHT. AND IT'S NOT JUST THE ROAD THAT THEY'RE ON. IT'S ALL THE ROADS THAT THEY COME IN ON. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE AN ISSUE RIGHT NOW WITH NO TRUCKING, NO THROUGH TRUCKING ON LITCHFIELD ROAD. AND CONSTANTLY WE HAVE.

DAN, THAT'S AN ISSUE FOR ANOTHER DAY. NO, NO.

I'M BRINGING THIS UP. ALL RIGHT. I'M BRINGING IT UP BECAUSE It's another business up there where trucks are going to go there. And it's the GPS that tells you to go that way. And then we have problems with that. So I just don't want to... burden our taxpayers and saying we're going to give a business a tax break and you're going to suck it up.

Let me put it a different way because if they decide not to come here, then we have zero tax revenue.

Okay.

Okay, so it's a matter of do you want some tax revenue or do you want no tax revenue at all? I don't want... That's not the decision we're making.

Okay, so I don't want to collect, let's say... $2.9 million in ten years and later on we're spending much more money on our infrastructure because of this. So I know we're going to have to pay for infrastructure, we have to upkeep it.

I want to wrap this up. Yeah, go ahead. No, I think this is important because I think this comes up every time. We talk about the infrastructure and the cost.

Yep.

I don't want to collect $2.5 million and spend $3.5 million. But not all properties work the same. If every single thing that was built in town added to make everybody pay more taxes, the math doesn't add up on that. Things work out, things don't. What I don't want to do is give so much of a cut that it doesn't work out for the taxpayers. But I also don't want nothing there. And I also wanted, it's not even about just this project because you could just say, well, maybe they won't come here. Or maybe they'll come here anyway. But the thing is, and how this town positions itself as for future businesses and future good things for the tax base that actually help pay the taxes and take the burden off the taxpayers. I think we've got to start thinking more in depth about each and every one of these instead of just a blanket, everything's bad, everything's good. There's nuances to this stuff, and I want to do the best thing for our taxpayers and the people of this town. Not just the money, because it's not just about money. There's quality of life issues and everything else. So when we looked at this on the planning board aspect of it, a lot of that, there was a lot into the traffic, into the location of town, into some of the other things. So those have been satisfied for me seeing that, and that was available for all of us to watch. But for here, just looking at the numbers, I want to make sure the numbers work out for this town.

Ted, be quiet. Go ahead. If you may, I'd like to ask the town manager a question. Sure. Commissioner Holland, when looking at the financial analysis of this, I know normally Justin has a certain number of what we're spending or what we're taking in sometimes for revenues and what it actually equates to a tax rate increase or decrease would you be able to I know it's not showing on this sheet for us but if you know what I'm talking about here upon how much it would be either we'll be decreasing our tax rate by having this new taxable revenue coming in.

So right now it's about every $77,000 in expenditures equals one cent on the tax rate.

Would it equate almost to the same side on the revenue side?

Right. So if you've got that revenue, if you bring in, for instance, in this case, let's say we take that first year at 50%. The $179,000?

Yeah.

Yeah, so that's the amount of money that you don't have to raise in property taxes because it's offset by the revenue coming in for this. Right now, you're raising taxes on $109,000. You'd be raising taxes on $22,280,000 approximately. So there's a pretty significant difference that the amount of taxes they're going to pay that they're not paying down as you indicated. And then again, right now it's about $77,000 equals one cent in the tax rate.

Right, so for the difference for us here and at home, The full tax bill will be a reduction tax rate of 4.187 cents compared to the first year of 50% will be a reduction of the tax rate of 2.33 cents for the new taxable revenue that will be coming in. So to try and get the overall picture here for you,

While he's doing that, Dan, are you in any way Any of these formulas work for you? You're totally against it?

Yes or no? I don't have my answers to my questions and my concerns, so I cannot be in favor of any of it because of that. I mean, if I had- That's right.

I just want to make sure. There's nothing we can do to put you on board with it. Yeah. Because those questions, they can't answer today.

Right.

Okay. So for a different look at the analysis on a $500,000 home, the full tax bill would be saving that homeowner about $21 a year on the current tax rate. The first year reduction of the 50% would save that homeowner almost $12 a year on their tax rate.

Is there any of these proposals that would satisfy you if we dropped them down like Sean had suggested we did the five year and dropped it down by 7%?

Well, we'd have to run all the numbers and we don't have them here, really, to think about to do it. And I hate to say it, I personally am not comfortable voting on something that I can't, I need to see an actual thought.

But we're not going to know an actual until the rate comes out, you know, same like.

That's even worse because I'm talking about what he just said, what Sean just said with the numbers of right now.

I mean, if this is a spreadsheet, is this a spreadsheet somewhere where you could just plug in the numbers I said and it'd show you, like it'd recalculate everything where Deb could see it?

I didn't mean to make you work. I'm sorry. But the question is, are we looking at a five or ten year?

Because that's how we have to feel the break in town.

So they talked about having their financial business plan together and they needed this to work. So they asked for the three, the tier three. And in that tier three, it's 50%, 45% and it goes on down. So if we start saying, well, you know what? We'll give you 30% year one. It might not work for them. So we could be sitting here spinning our wheels for nothing because they might, we might come out Sean with a formula. And they might go and say, that doesn't work.

Absolutely. So, yeah, you're exactly right. And we could we could say, no, none. And they could go, that doesn't work either. In the end of the day, what we're doing is trying to get something where, hey, this is what we're willing to work with you on. This is what we're going. And it works or it doesn't work. If it doesn't work and they walk away from the table, then they walk away from the table just the same as they would if it was none. I'm just saying, what are we willing to do? And I personally believe we have given away too much in the past. And I want to try to stem that and turn it back. So I was trying to discuss it with the council and throw something out there and kind of see where it landed.

I mean, can we put this off and have them rethink this and say, hey, It's 50% or nothing. Or they might come back and say, you know what? Instead of tier three, maybe we could go with tier one for less years or whatever.

Dan, we can do whatever we want to do, but it's our decision about this. It's not their decision. They're not going to tell us what. We're going to tell them what we're willing to give them.

I know, but what I'm saying, Ron, is if we put this off, I think they're understanding here what we're looking at. Maybe they can go back and say, hey, financially for us, it doesn't work unless we get this.

I really don't want to put this off to another meeting. Dan, why would what they say make a difference? Either you're in favor of giving them a tax exemption or you're not. What they have to say shouldn't impact your decision.

Because by putting this off, hopefully I'll get answers to my other questions.

But they said they won't be able to answer those questions.

Well, they should be able to answer the questions about the sewer system in the traffic daily.

I already said if there's any improvements to the sewer system that they'd be putting up the money to do so.

No, they didn't say that. They did.

They did. They did say that.

It's undetermined. It's undetermined right now if they're needing to, but we can't answer that question.

And if there's any sewer improvements, it goes to the users. Yeah. It's not going to fall in the town. If it's their impact.

And other projects that's fallen on the town, so I'm just being very careful.

But you said that you're not happy with it in any form, right?

Not at this point, no. Okay. I got too many questions still not answered.

I'm fine with the 10 year as it's written.

I'm okay with the five or the ten, and I'm okay even reducing it down. I think we want to do something to bring them here. How do you feel, Ted, about what Sean suggested? Is that an option for you or?

You want us to plug those numbers in? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry.

Sorry. So it was just seven off everything.

Seven off everything?

Yeah, so it's 43, 33.

The column was based off another formula.

30, 43, 33.

21, 10, 1. Let's go over. So as opposed to under the 10 year plan where the first year tax bill would be 179,504, the first year tax bill would be 199,508. Year two would go from roughly 194 to roughly 228. Year three would go from roughly 213 to 262. Year four will go from roughly 235,000 to roughly 320,000 and then it will be full in year five.

So that's what that- Does that help Deb or does that not?

It does.

Is there anything that we can do with the numbers that would make you feel better about it?

Not that it matters.

I mean, it's 3-2, so... Deb, we're trying to do what's best here. We're just trying to say, is there anything that's going to work with it?

I just, personally, I think it's presumptuous to think that the whole deal is bet on this. Because they had to have had it in their mind. They spent an awful lot of money.

Mm-hmm.

I've done a lot of stuff, and it's not cheap having Ari sit there and listen to us.

So you think they want it to work, right?

I think this is a bonus for them. I think this is ice cream on the cake, personally. Because the fact at the end of the day is, if they don't have the money to do this job, then why would they have spent so much into it? being very honest and probably saying things i shouldn't say but i'm saying it um i believe that They looked at this that was here. I don't think that's the reason they came here. They came here for Stonyfield and probably the three grocery stores, and you can include the one in Derry's. It's two over there. For those grocery stores to come here was going to produce X amount of money, and they looked at it, and they said, yeah, we could do it, but you know what? It's going to be a slim margin. One in Derry has this thing here. Let's take advantage of it. That's going to give us what we really need to bang it over the top. That's how I look at it. Okay. Because they've spent so much money into this. This conversation to me should have been way back when and conceptual. And it wasn't. It came about later as an afterthought. Hey, by the way, did you know we could do this? And so for me.

So there's no, I just want to make sure there's no way to run the numbers that you would be happy with.

Impersonally, honest to God. Yeah, no, okay.

Also, Ron, I look at it and go, you know, you're going to get. Manchester, Nashville, we're in a great location next to all these places where they're going to get a ton of stuff. So, yeah.

Let me ask you, Ted, is there any combination of this that would make you satisfied to move forward tonight? Just so we can kind of know where everybody's at.

I mean, obviously companies, They've known that this has been on our docket. They know that it's available to our town. And they probably have done their financial performance with it in mind and with evaluations of what the building would be. Moving to this new formula, instead of a difference of over that five year time period of 409, it actually comes down to 308. For what the company is saving over that time period and we're only getting a hundred thousand dollars more over that five year time period i don't think that it's a a big savings for the the town to change the percentage of numbers i would think that To be able to do whatever financial performance for the company. I think that where we had it before, it made a lot of sense. And it, I don't know. To fight for $100,000 to change the percentages, it doesn't seem like it's worth it for me to change what we originally had in there.

You would prefer to leave it at the ten year? I would prefer to leave it at the ten year.

I mean, that difference between the five year and the ten year was only $200,000.

Okay, so basically you would feel like the ten years is the best for you, in your opinion? I would, okay.

Just one more point. Yeah, there's one last. When Ted was talking, I thought of it. So think of this as a residential thing. Why are we doing this for a commercial, right? So Ron, you're going to go and put a whole new addition on, an ADU, maybe you want to go up a level that's going to bring in more taxes. But we're going to tax you at 50% less because you're doing all that work, because your house is going to go up in price. Why not do it for everyone in town? Why are we just doing it for the businesses? The point is, it's not fair.

Well, they provide a larger tax reduction. They're providing a benefit to the community.

So, Sean, would either one of those proposals work for you? I'm just trying to figure if we can get to consensus here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There or them. So Ted's proposal is just tenure the way it sits?

That is my proposal.

Okay.

To be able to fight over a difference of about 200,000 on The ten year to the five year, or then to also then reduce the percentages over that five year only saves us- Let me see if- 100,000.

Is there a middle room there? Would you be willing to do the ten year with the 7% off, then meet Sean in the middle? But then do the five year, do the ten year at 7% off? I guess, I wish we had a seven year option.

Do we have a seven year off?

I do actually, because if we did take the 7% off, that eliminates the other three. Ten years for me is far too long.

You can do seven. We can do seven years? You can do whatever period of time you want to do. No more than ten though.

Right. I think then maybe a good middle option would be to do a seven year program. And start at the 50% and work its way down.

So what would you prefer? You'd go 50, 45, 38, or would you take the 7% off? You guys can get lunch this week. We'll let Kirsten work her magic a little bit. Okay.

Five, four.

Would you agree to that? We're trying to get some resolution here.

Whatever makes it work at down, starting at 50.

If I had a choice between seven and ten, I'd go four. Four or three.

So seven's good with you. Seven's good with me. Seven's good with you, Sean.

I'm trying to get to- So I'm negotiating.

Yeah, yeah, Deb's actually talking about- No, no, no. Deb actually suggested, I can let you say it, actually.

Well, I just think, I agree with Sean, there's a novel idea, that the ten and seven is way too long. way too long for the economy. No. I think that if I had to pick, I'm going towards three or four. I don't know the numbers yet in my head, but...

But you would vote for that, three or four? I'm just trying to make sure that... I'm trying to get us to a consensus here.

The truth is, if I had to pick between seven and ten at the higher rate, I would go with the three or four.

So I could go with four on the bottom and just leave it. But Deb's not answering my question. Are you willing to vote for that, Deb? Because I don't want to.

I have to vote for something, right? It's going to pass free because you guys will do the test. I'm just saying. The thing is.

I'm trying to get to something here, Deb, that we can all agree on here.

I guess if I had to vote, personally, priority one would be zero.

Okay.

My next choice would be three or four. And whatever somebody puts out there, if they put out, then I'm not voting for the seven or ten.

Okay, so is there any- We'll not vote for that. I'll do four. Ted, is there any room in your- Let's see how we feel.

In your- I prefer zero.

Okay, I'm just trying to see if you guys are on four. Is there any room for you to be on four, Ted?

No.

Okay.

Because they don't even fit the financial metrics to go into that smaller time frame. Okay, does the seven work for you? I'm fitting within our ordinance for that.

Does the seven work for you?

I guess I'll ask Brown.

I'm just trying to get to a- Yeah, where are you at? Trying to come to a better middle ground. I want to offer a tax exemption. I was happy with a five year. But I could be talked into a seven, I don't like the ten at all, but that's where I'm at. I think five or seven's a good place for them to be. I agree with Deb that ten is too long. Yeah, I agree with that. I'm happy with seven or five, somewhere in that range. I think it's fair.

Seven's too long.

So I'm fine with five, but I don't know.

Well, what's Dan think?

Dan said he's hoping no matter what. Dan's known no matter what. I cannot support. So that's why I'm trying to get to a consensus here.

I cannot support this, Deb, giving a tax credit to a business when we're going to be asking the taxpayers to pick up the slack.

But if I fight for four for you and we try to get to four, you're going to tell me you're not going to vote for it. I'm just saying, I'm just trying to get to a consensus here with the group. Here.

If you and Sean- Hold on, hold on. I'll get us there faster.

Okay.

I'll make a motion to do the four year deal with the percentages on the bottom. And if somebody seconds it, somebody seconds it. I'll leave it up to you.

I'm probably, I hate to say this, Sean. I just know how hard it is out there for people right now, and they pick up mostly everything. And if it falls to Capulli, the other ones will pick up the pieces.

But if you're not going to vote for that- Then we got to go up. Then I got to go with seven. I'm good with seven. Are you good with seven? Sean, are you good with seven?

I would compromise to five.

I'd do the bottom one. I'm fine with five or seven. Ted, do you agree with five or not?

I would much more prefer the seven years.

I'm voting zero. Six? Yeah, and you? I want to get to consensus here and not draw this out much longer. So we've kind of talked about it a long time, so. I'm okay to move it to six years.

Okay.

So six, six, six, do you give a six? Yeah, I'll go with it. And what are the percentages going to be? Give me a second.

Yep. So if we reduce it.

So if it's six, we're going to do, she'll work it.

Give me one second here. We're going to go.

I almost had you and Sean agreeing, Deb. That was close. All right. I'm just saying. Okay. I just want to make sure.

Okay, so it's a six-year one.

Reducing at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50. And then year seven is nothing. That would put it at year one. Sorry, I'm not talking to the mic. 179, 504, the same way. 193, 219, hold on. Let me see if I can do side by side.

I'm fine with that.

Give me one second.

It's up to you, John.

I mean, yeah, I said I'd do it. I'm just trying to get to somewhere. I mean, obviously I prefer four, but I guess, you know, we got to get somewhere on this. And if you guys are more there. All right.

So the first two years would be the same. And then it would gradually because the reduction happens faster. Year three, you're looking about six and a half thousand more. Year four, you're looking about 15,000 more in taxes. Year five, you're looking about 23-ish thousand more. Year six, you're about 25,000 more, 24,000 more, and then year seven, you're at fault.

So I'll do a motion to accept that proposal.

I will second that. Okay, I have a motion from Sean and a second from Ted. Any further discussion?

So just to be clear, you're motioning on, sorry, I'm doing the minutes right now, so. What you just put right there. This one right here. The six year plan as it says on the Excel spreadsheet. Yes.

Any further discussion?

Does our applicant have a question? No, I'm just trying to understand the motion. I just want to make sure. He doesn't. I want to make sure that he had it cleared.

Yeah, I can answer that. This is the council, so. Any further discussion?

I just think that these numbers are not going to break them.

Okay.

There's not enough, they're not saving that much.

Okay. Anything else? All right, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Opposed. Deb and Dan, Councilor Bouchard and Councilor Paul both opposed. Chair votes in the affirmative.

Deb, you were right, 3-2.

Thank you for your consideration.

I told you that's how it was going to go.

Thank you. It almost went a different way.

I almost thought I had you guys agreeing, Deb. I thought it was close. The more I thought about it.

I was like- There wasn't enough assurity there. There wasn't enough guarantee. You're not done yet. Hold up, Deb, sorry.

Well, it's a resolution that you have because you have to determine the public benefit part, and then the year that it starts. We'll get the items, the construction list from them. They already rattled that off. We'll just add that to it. So that'll fill in that blank that's highlighted. But the resolution, you'd have to fill in those other pieces in there. We have that now at the bottom. You have the scale.

So you're talking about... On the bottom here, sir, the six-year thing? So we just approved to do what she has there.

Right. So we got that part of it done, and we're looking at the year 2028 is what he asked for. So that's got to get put in there, which we can do. We'll type this up for you and get you to sign it, but I want you to approve the resolution. I'll ask you to approve the resolution. I got you. Because there's a motion in the agenda cover sheet which approves this so that we can get that part of it done. You also have to decide, are you comfortable with me finalizing the agreement for food waste? And if you are, then allow me to go and do that. And then all that will get added as a covenant to this exemption.

Okay, so we're going to go with the sixth year. It's going to start. 2028, right? For six years. And it's going to begin April 2028. That fills in those blanks. Was there any of the blanks?

The rest of it, because we'll actually put the amount and lot number in, because they're doing a lot line adjustment.

We'll do all the rest of that. And then the motion that I have doesn't have a resolution. It's 16. 16, okay. So-

So the agreement at the food waste, are we going to see that before it's finalized?

You have to decide whether you want to do that. If you want to do that, then you should wait. If you're okay with me finalizing that, because that's the way there's a motion that allows you to do that, it's up to you.

I'd just like to see it. I imagine it's going to be fine.

I think you need to see it. Okay.

We're all good.

Y'all need to see contracts all the time.

So we want to see it. Agreed again. You have it. It's in the packet. It's going to change where it says the containers on their property. It's not going to be an option.

That's the agreement. So for you to agree to it.

Right. So they're going to have to put some additional pavement on where that sidewalk is in the diagram. I'm fine with all that.

I thought you were talking about something else, Sean. Me too. Yeah, I know. So I'm all good with this. Yeah, I'm good with that. Anybody else? All right. Do we need a vote? Sean, are you good with us? Yes. There's a motion. I don't have a motion here.

It's in the agenda cover sheet. I move that the Londonderry Town Council hereby approve resolution 2026- 16. 16 regarding the commercial industrial tax exemption for purpose energy as stated. I have a motion from Sean. Second. A second from Ted.

So what will happen is, you will get that at the next meeting to sign. So you're approving it, but it's contingent upon your signature when that comes, because we're going to add all those things in that you just talked about in the document.