Town Council - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call to order the town of Bowling Green Town Council budget public hearing rate setting meeting. Today is Thursday, May 27th, 22nd, 2025, and it is 50:08 p.m. Would all of you please stand for the pledge of allegiance? I alian nation I will now take a roll call and establish a quorum. Miss Davis here. Mr. Voit still here. Mr. Webb here. Dr. Chenalt here. Vice Mayor Coyle here. Mr. Stor here. Mr. Hagman here. All council members are present and we have a quorum. We will go to the first item on our agenda under new business. It is our public hearing for the fiscal year 2026 proposed budget. I'm g turn it over to the town manager at this time. Yes, ma'am. We haven't started the public comment section yet. Ma'am, I was just going to turn it over to you, Madame Mayor, that this is the time for people

who did not speak at the the prior public uh public hearing on that item to speak to the FY26 proposed budget. Miss Bersel, you can come on forward. Okay, we are I'm going to open the public comment section. Let me give you the rules once again. You will please come to the podium. You will give your name and your address. You will have three minutes to speak. Please know that you will address me, the chair, as much as the council members and myself would like to respond to you. Our rules do not allow for that. But I do want you to know that what you have to say is important and we are listening to you. and I thank each and every one of you for being here. We will now open public comment. Good afternoon, council. My name is Katherine Davis Burchil. I live at 138 Milford Street. I've lived in this town my entire life, which is 81 years. I might be the oldest person in the room. Uh I have taught school in this county for a long time. What I want to say is I read your proposal, your budget. 75 pages is a long a long packet. It was a nice looking packet. I was able to read it. What I want to say is that I think you all have gotten caught in a conundrum that is not your fault. We got the county tax bills, the halfyear tax bills, and I think a lot of people may have thought they were the town of Bowling Greens. Um, we get to pay the county twice a year, we pay the the town once a year. What I want

you to know is that I appreciate the work that you do. I want you to know that I support you and I do come to other council meetings. Uh, and I want to say that feel like you are working hard. I think there's a misunderstanding too about the lowered tax rate and the the proposed tax rate. So, it makes it hard for people to understand. some of the comments that I read, the misinformation uh that was spoken of earlier is because some people aren't paying attention to what they're doing. And there are some of these people don't even live in the town that were making the comments. So I and I I love this town. I support many things that it does. All the not all the things that it does. Um, I lived with a sewer project in my yard for about how long was it? About three months about four years ago and that was very difficult, very inconvenient. We have a nice sewer line now and but it it takes money, it takes time and it takes effort. So, just want to say thank you to you all. Thank you, Miss Biril. Next citizen, please. Welcome back, Mr. Hulie. Good evening, Mr. Mayor. Uh, members of town council. My name's Arthur Hulie. Uh, 137 South Main. Just want to address some concerns and questions that I have on the proposed 2026 uh, budget. First off, do want to congratulate uh, our newest police officer and the effort that he put in going through the academy. uh when I was on council, there were two funded positions and I solely, you know, along with all the other members on the

council support that and I do see that in the 2026 budget to have that back at a full-time position. So, I will say the public safety aspect of that I do stand behind. Um do have some questions though. Uh comparing the 26 to 25 budget, there's about $500,000 that's uh proposed for an increase. So 100,000 going to the finance department. Public works is increasing by 50,000. The water funds up by approximately 100,000. Uh and the sewer funds approximately 300,000. So all those expenses are going to be at the citizens uh tax revenue that comes in. So just a couple questions about that. Hopefully we'll get some answers. Um and then switching gears a little bit. Uh while trying to do some research, I would like to think that I was pretty savvy when I was on council finding things. Uh do want to clear the record that before I started the uh the county gave us information. So you can see how thick this is. This is from 2016 on the O andM evaluation of the Bowling Green system by the town um that the county did. And again in a crisis that we had, they came in and assisted with us. Um and that's right here along with another report. Uh do want to highlight one thing in there. It said under infrastructure. Uh most of the lines were installed in 1952. A map was presented with problem areas in 2008. So we're almost 20 years past that and we're still having problems. Um later discussed was uh again in 2010 and 2012. So those same problem areas were discussed then. It's just unfortunate that what seems to be aou and a partnership with the county has kind of dwindled out since uh the last few years. Uh lastly, switching um new website. Notice that uh one of the

values on there is transparency. So again, why are public meetings being held during the work workday when citizens can't make those? That that's a problem, especially when there's comments to be made. Uh, next, um, that would reduce citizen participation. So, if that's the the goal of the council, you're doing a great job. But I would I would say that you should probably go back to every time I was on here, it was 5:00 p.m., you know, 7:00 p.m. meetings. We didn't do anything at 10:00 a.m. on a Tuesday or Thursday. Um, meeting minutes not visible on the website. Can't find them. So the only place I found him for your information was USA Gov Cloud API. Uh it was interesting because I found the January 2nd meeting in there read a little bit. So reference point uh section 12 discuss the smart scale project. So uh it was at the recommendation of VOTE and town council. Thank you Mr. Voy for speaking up. Your notes were in there that you guys would seek uh out to the fire department for proposed changes to that smart scale project. But here we are five months later and nobody's approached me about that. So, uh, thank you for your time and I know I started a little early, so I'll end. Thank you, Mr. Hulie. Next citizen, please. Any other citizen comments? Welcome back, Mr. McDerman. Thank you. Glenn McDerman, 355 Roper Drive. Uh, I want to tell you all that I I know the seat that you're sitting in, it's a very difficult one. You have a lot of tough decisions to make, but they're very critical to this town for people coming to town, the state of town, and whether or not they uh they're going to participate in this town or not. You know, I asked a question, the $ 8.5 million that I see there's a grant for, don't know the details of that. I'd

like to understand those details. Um, you know, and the increase the 11 the 20% there is going to put an additional $254,000 in the town's budget annually. Where is that going? What does that look like? And I understand that um, Miss English, you built the budget on a 20% rate. That's not correct. Okay, good. I'm glad you corrected me on that, but that's what I understand. So, we have to be careful with that. Um, you know, as we've talked, a lot of people are on fixed income here, and we're not going to have the economic development in this town if we keep raising the taxes. We have to raise some taxes. There are infrastructures that we have to take care of. There's no question about it, but we have to do that in a reasonable fashion, but this large jump that's being proposed is pretty severe. So, thanks for your time. Thank you, Mr. McDerman. Next citizen, please. Good afternoon, Mayor, town council members, and Marie Giles, Roper Drive. Um, everybody's been talking about the increase. It bothers almost all of us because it's money out of our pocket that we can't spend anywhere else. What bothers me most is the services have gone down and the taxes are going up. Uh, our town hall is open three days a week, not five, three days a week. When I was a young woman working in the office setting and elderly people came in and they didn't know what day of the week it was, what the date was. I thought, "How can you not know what day of the week it is?" Now I know. Now I know. So, I've shown up on a

Tuesday. I've shown up on a Thursday to pay the water bill and it's been closed. I was also told I had to make an appointment to ask the town manager a question. That has never happened before. And before any of you speak up and say that they didn't get their work done because people kept talking to them, I don't want to hear it because I spend a lot of time in town council I mean in town hall coming to town council meetings. I fell off a little last year because there were problems. But uh so I spent time in town hall and I never saw a line outside the town manager's office. So I'd like to see some of the services go back. Thank you, Miss Giles. Next citizen, please. Okay, Peter uh Hosi, 247 North Main Street. Welcome back. Thank you. At the risk of making myself look like a complete fool, um I'm going to speak in public. Uh the um so I just did a little research. You know, the average rate in Virginia is between 77 and 0.92%. And uh in Caroline it's 77. If we add in the 0.2 that we're proposing, we're going to get up to 0.9. Um yes, it's definitely a three times increase. And we need to understand why that happened and you know how we're going to manage that. But in reality, it's not really out of bounds with what a lot of people are paying in Virginia. In fact, it's actually lower than the national average.

So just made a fool of myself in public. Thank you for Thank you, Mr. Rosie. Next citizen, please. Any others? I'm about to close public comment. Miss Canon, I'm sorry I have to make this. This is the first time you've spoken since I've been mayor and I feel honored to finally have you here speaking while I'm here. I appreciate that mayor and I apologize for being late. I cannot make early meetings. So anyway, Bonnie Cannon Sites Main Street and thank you very much for those comments. I am very bothered about all the proposed increases this town is getting ready to bestow or wants to bestow upon the residents of this town. I want everybody in this room in addition to the council to know that I grew up in this county from a child born in 1953. So y'all add up my age if you want to. I don't care. I have never seen increases in taxes, services that are going on in Caroline County and or the town of Bowling Green right now. You add it to inflation and everything else that's going on. You go to the grocery store every day like I do and wait till you get to living on a fixed income, you will know the difference. So anyway, please consider and think of the residents, whatever y'all do. They're commercial folks, too. I understand. I know that, too. But this affects everybody. Things need to come to a stop at some point. You just can't keep increasing and increasing everything there is. I know you have to do things. Yes, I understand that. But you can't slap all

this on people at the same time. Thank you very much. Thank you, mayor. Thank you, Miss Cannon. And thank you for finally um inaugurating me, mayor. I have problems today, so I could the next citizen, please. Welcome back, Miss Weldon. Thank you. Pam Weldon, 333 North Main Street. Um, I'm just kind of taking in everything everybody's saying and definitely increases in the groceries on the fixed income. But I also wanted to add too, which I thought was a a point is that we just got our assessment and our assessment went up $80,000 on our house and property. So, this is really a double whammy going on here because not only we talking about increasing the taxes, we're talking about increasing the taxes on another $80,000. So, we have the economy, we have the groceries, we have the fixed income, we have the increased assessment on the property, and now the proposed assessment on the taxes. And like I said the first time I was up here, it's going to run people out of business. It's gonna force people out here. And I've I've lived here 25 years, but it's going to force people out that have lived here their entire life. And then they're not going to be able to afford to live here. And it's just it's very sad to me. It's just so sad what's going on. And again, I just wanted to, you know, add that in. Trying to think of something else. intelligent to say, you know, we we um

we do okay at the antique store, but you start increasing the prices and the taxes for everyone, we're going to get cut first. Maybe they're going to go ahead and go over to Roma's and eat, but you're you're also going to hurt Roma's when they're going to have the increase on their taxes. And if you think the burgers are expensive now, just wait till we have to absorb the cost to be able to go out to dinner maybe once a week. We're going to maybe go out to dinner twice a month, maybe once a month, maybe not at all. So, your quality of life is going to go down. And um yeah, like I said, I'm just going to pray about all this because, you know, and we've also added a lot of people to this town. And the reason the people come to this town and come to this county is because we don't have the same tax rate as Northern Virginia. That's why they come here. They come here because they want a nice life in a small town with friendly people that has safe streets and a good community and nice things to do. So you don't have to drive to Fredericksburg and have them double cross the yellow line and almost ram into the back of you or go to Richmond. Everything you need is pretty much right here in Bowling Green and that's a wonderful thing and I think we need to work hard when you vote to preserve that way of life that we have here. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Welen. Next citizen. Welcome back, Miss Craropper. Thank you. You know, this is my first county. Please state your name and address. I'm

sorry. Pat Crawford. What's my address? 251 North Main Street. I Whoa, that went right out. Um, this is my first council meeting. I appreciate what y'all do. I appreciate the amount of work you put in. Um, I've gone over the budget for two weeks now and it bothers me. It bothers me that you are pro proposing a budget with unudited numbers. How do we know that they're correct? You know, the audit, we haven't been audited from 2020 to 204. We're still missing 2024. So, you're basing numbers on guesstimates, I'm going to say. And that bothers me as a citizen. It bothers me as a resident. It bothers my whole family because it affects the bottom line. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Craropper. Next citizen, please. Miss Mans, I saw you trying to come up. Good evening, Christa Mans, 17350 Lakewood Road. I we um my family also owns some businesses in town and I know that you guys probably with these increases we're still going to have a deficit in the budget. I know you guys have been handed a pretty rough thing. All I was going to say is that if in the future we could consider um maybe broadening the tax base and adding some rooftops where it's available that that might be helpful because the operations of this town are going to be the same and it's falling on I can't remember the exact number that you said but I think

it was maybe 565 residents that are being homes that are in the area and I think that if we consider adding rooftops that would kind you know, help with the budget problems. And that's all. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Mans. Next citizen, please. Going once, going twice. I will now Before you do that, I wanted to float something. Yes. Just because you're about to close it, right? Yes. I'm sorry. Um, I just want to put it out there, you know, to my colleagues, you know, with with what we've heard about, um, you know, the timing of everything. You know, this did have to happen today. Okay? But I'll just put it out there. We could continue the public hearing until our next meeting to offer people that couldn't make this one because of the early time to speak at our next meeting just to offset some of those issues that we had. I don't know if there's any interest in this, but I would be um you know because we're taking the action or at least that action on the budget at our next meeting. Um, if we close this hearing now, no more talk from the public about it at that meeting because once you have a public hearing, that topic is closed. It's all on us. Um, we could continue all of us talking about this thing tonight, of course. Um, but that would be a motion to continue to meet. Now, when when I asked Mr. Gore about such um the way that this was advertised, um, is all taxes inclusive of that hearing? So to do that would um make it so that we could not pass the tax rate which was on our agenda tonight how I understand it. So if we were to like I'm kind of asking

continue the public hearing we would not be able to pass the uh the tax rate tonight which is the only part we were talking about passing tonight. The budget and the other rates are at the next meeting but I had to float that before you closed it. That would um require a motion from council and a second if you want further discussion to even and I'll I'll go ahead and make the motion just to to ask for a second. I have a motion from Councilman Voy. Is there a second? There is no second. I will move close public comment. We will move on to member comments. Miss Davis, I have none. Mr. Voy, nothing further till later. Mr. Web, uh, no comment. Dr. Chenol, no comment. Vice Mayor Coyle, no comment. Mr. Stor, no, ma'am. Mr. Hman, again, thanks for everybody that stuck around for this portion of the meeting as well. It's great to see an audience here for once. Thank you. I also would like to thank each and every one of you for coming. We will now move on to the staff reports. Um the fisc year 26 proposed budget overview and I will turn this section over to the town manager, Miss India Adams Jacobs. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Do we have the the projector? Oh, never mind. If it's not up, that's okay. Um, I'll speak to I'll just speak to some talking points um from the proposed budget. Um, at the

previous meeting, I presented the proposed budget to town council uh for consideration. Um it has I think some of you have seen that in the in the packet which included some of the general budget drivers and highlighted highlights of that budget. Um and some of the critical challenge that we are facing this year. Um through that budget we talked about the uh town's vision which was established by town council at the 2024 strategic planning retreat which was to become a vibrant lively thriving community that's sustainable resilient connected regionally walkable and connected with uh connected neighborhoods a destination for visitors a small town vibe and village with historic charm a cultural business center for Caroline County with beautiful public spaces and streetscapes. Um also discussed in the town vision was the um purpose of the town to include land use control, utilities, public safety, attractive physical assets, amenities and parks, independence and self-governance, sense of community, location of services, commerce and culture amongst other things. Also in terms of establishing values and operating principles, council established transparency, open communication, good customer service, honesty, integrity, sound financial management, follow-through staff development, welcoming, facilitative, creativity, innovation, efficiency, effectiveness, and trust. Uh in that presentation, it also highlighted what the town funds, which includes public safety, our police, which includes staff, vehicles, equipment, and building expenses, infrastructure, which includes public works and utilities, wastewater, which includes staff, vehicles, equipment, testing, potential upgrades or repairs, water, which includes staff, vehicles, equipment, testing, potential upgrades and repairs, as well as public works, which includes staff, vehicles, beautifification, and parks maintenance. It also discussed um administration which does include financial office staff, audit, budget preparation, legal, day-to-day operations, government performance which includes information technology, software, staff development, and economic development and tourism which includes our events such as Harvest Festival, Music on the Green, and tourism. Uh in that budget, we um

outlined the process which includes that the adopted budget serves as the town's operating and capital budget for the fiscal year, which we operate on a fiscal year from July 1 to June 30th. Um the budget must be balanced um to uh include uh contributions to capital reserves and there are two funds that are featured in the budget which is the general fund and the enterprise funds which includes fees from services for our water and tour in the 2026 budget priorities um that was still aligned with the strategic planning retreat guidance from council which was to improve and maintain the town's water and sewer system infrastructure including our water supply treatment facilities distribution and collection systems uh to hire excellent town staff that would be fostered a well-trained, appropriately compensated workforce that has development opportunities and dedicated to public service. Economic development that supports business development and expansion that enhances the tax base and provides gainful employment. That we would have smart growth. That we would support development that improves community vitality. That we would have a vibrant downtown. We would act to ensure that the town remains attractive, historic, convenient center for commerce, culture, and services as the county seat. uh that we would improve organizational efficiency and effectiveness in service delivery through the adoption of appropriate policies, procedures, and practices. That we'd adapt and implement best practices. In terms of financial management, that we would provide fiscally responsible, sustainable, and resilient financial management that addresses the current and future needs. In terms of county relations, that we would communicate and collaborate with Caroline County for mutually beneficial results. Um Mr. Ted Cole from Davenport will speak to the reassessment and real and equalization process um in the next portion of this presentation, but I'll continue on um with some of the specific highlights as it relates to the budget. Just to clear up some misinformation that I believe that has um been put out there. Um the budget, my budget proposal as town manager, which I'm required to do by law, is to present a balanced budget to town council for consideration. I've done that based on

the 13 cent um reassessed 13 cents uh for consideration for council budget assumptions based on the information that we provided that we were provided by the county with based on budget assumptions as of 425. In that presentation, um, we shared with council that council should strongly consider a higher rate up to 20 cents based on our financial advisors, Davenport's targets for revenues, future debt service, and current capital emergencies such as the sewer emergencies that we just experienced on courthouse as well as Main Street that um is going to um continue next week. Um that also include a proposed meals tax of 7% up 1% from six. Proposed rate increases as it relates to water and sewer of 20. Um included no new town personal tax increases. And through a new RFP for trash, we actually realized a decrease in refuge rates of approximately 5% on residential and even more on commercial. The total proposed FY 2026 budget total about $3.5 million of expenditures including all funds. Um there are some several increases throughout in in certain areas as it relates um to water and sewer particularly to ensure that we um can financially sustain some of those emergencies but also plan for capital needs in the future. But I wanted to to highlight one specific point um on page 21 in the American Rescue Plan Act which was a COVID um era uh funding program from the federal government. In 2021 uh we received about $1.2 2 million over a span of two years um for COVID related um expenses um from related to the pandemic. So essentially the town received $1.2 million. Over that time the town uh absorbed that $1.2 million for various projects such as infrastructure uh financial management systems, town hall rehabilitation and website update. One of the guidances that came from the federal government was to be careful about including those revenues in your general operating fund.

And I'll let um Mr. Cole from Davenport speak to that a little bit later. Um but there are some things that perhaps should have been one-time nature um funded that have been put in the budget throughout the last few fiscal years which essentially subsidize some of the needs for things that would have been ongoing um operational expenditures moving forward. So, as we highlighted through the budget, budgeting priorities that we would be funding for core services and capital infrastructure needs, that we would build capital reserves through increased revenue collections for immediate deferred maintenance capital needs, uh that we would prioritize staff retention, um and that we would monitor budget and spending moving forward. This budget alignment for this FY26 um included restructuring our part-time patrol officer positions to have one full-time officer back to 2024 staffing levels. Um, and that also included uh Leo's benefit for our police department, which is a hazardous pay benefit. Um, so that when they retire, they they realize that same benefit that many other police departments have across the Commonwealth. This is an enhancement to the budget. Um, at about $55,000. Um, but I do think that it is important for us to support our public safety officers. And while we only have two, it's important that we retain them considering that we just sent one through the academy for the first time, I think, in over 20 years. Um, our budget is also compliant with mandated state minimum wage, uh, which is about $12 an hour. And this includes, um, a full-time position for customer service, as we've heard, um, that services have been dwindling. I would also add that in in this environment, it's very difficult to recruit and, um, retain, uh, people, um, in local government, um, workforce in general. Um so we are looking at a position to improve that in the office and so that eventually we can get back to that four um days a week that the office would be open um as custom for most towns of our size. Uh also talked about general fund budget impacts. There are healthcare increases of about 10% which is something that has been um identified in the trends from Mr. Cole's presentation which you'll see a little

bit later. This included a modest 2% COLA increase for uh full-time staff um in in kind of collaboration with most localities and m municipalities are doing um this budget season. It also included additional funding for audit services. Um many of you have spoken about the transparency and the lack of audits. Um in the last year we've completed two audits. Um and we are currently working on FY23. Uh the last audit that was completed prior to that I think was in 2020. Um but overall the town has been um pretty behind on its audits um largely due to um I would say failed implementation of a couple of different financial systems and we are working to improve that as quickly and as diligently as possible. Um it included some highlights for um administration which includes contingencies for emergencies as we've seen uh continuous information technology and security for town operations. Uh we talked about the additional increases in finance. We are budgeting for two audits which are going up. I would like to highlight that our audit in gre our audit engagements are going up overall because of the financial position and the um difficulty in which the auditors have in doing our town's audits based on the prior mismanagement. So we are essentially being assessed another fee on top of the normal fee because of how bad the conditions that we've inherited. And I do understand that that is no one's fault at this table. As a town manager who took over this job in January of 2024, I was well aware of some of the challenges and we've been working diligently to do that. And in just a year and a half, we've completed more than the town has in the last five years. So, I I appreciate the community's patience as we speak to um our ability to have be open more than three days a week. That is because we are focusing on the audits. The audits are important because we can't go out to borrow money or finance money if we don't have audits. And I think someone mentioned that earlier today and you are completely correct. So, we are making those um priorities and working on addressing that so that we can be in a a better position um if we ever have to go

out to issue debt. We discuss public safety um and the LEO's impact as well. Uh we also um help with managing the grant for the Bowling Green Fire Department. Um that is a pass through that we get from the grant for that. Uh in public works and utilities, there are increases in vehicle maintenance, increases in electricity, increases in equipment and supplies, and increases in maintenance for our town hall repairs. Uh we all know this is a historic USO building, and it is aging, and it is something that has also been deferred much like our infrastructure under our streets as it relates to water and sewer. As it relates to our water fund, uh many of you know we have had water quality concerns as it relates to uh VDH. We entered into a consent order to begin addressing the gross alpha um challenges that we have. Uh last year we were able to be awarded a grant for $45,000 to begin testing on that. And we also have worked towards um a grant through the state to see if we can obtain funding to uh mitigate those efforts. Uh and we'll hopefully hear more about that in the next three months. That is a 7525% match. Uh so we are looking at about a $2 million match if even if we are able to obtain the full grant amount. Um the water fund also includes uh and establishes that capital infrastructure fee and and includes just a $75,000 contingency for emergencies. Many of you know we've had plenty water breaks, water main breaks over the last several years. So that is just so that we can begin to create a contingency fund there um so that we are not eating away at reserves. On the sewer front side, um we've seen increases in repairs and maintenance. Our sludge costs um totaled about $225,000 year to date due to the failure of our drying beds at our plant at our wastewater treatment plant. Um it also establishes a contingency for sewer emergencies. Just an example again, the courthouse um lane which was about um 200 ft um cost us about $225,000

um total to fix. So just for so people can understand ballpark of what we're talking about in terms of contingencies, these are minor contingencies in terms of the the challenges that we're facing as it relates to infrastructure and the hopes is that some of that infrastructure fee can also begin um to create some additional um resources for that as well. In addition to the water um we have to do additional testing uh for our water as well which in includes additional testing and chemical cost um increases that we've seen over that same time. Uh if we had the the PowerPoint up, I would show you some of the comparisons in terms of where we are as it relates to the other um communities uh that we would probably benchmark ourselves against. Um Ashlin, Colonial Beach, Gordensville, Tapahanic, Warsaw as it relates to water and sewer. Um and we are um one of the lowest um next to Warsaw there. And those um comparisons are on pages 41 and 42 of the PowerPoint for those of you who are looking um online. Uh meals tax, we are pretty comparable. Um and personal property tax, we are um one of the lowest um along with Ashlin. Um so we're either one or two of the lowest in pretty much all of our benchmarking peers. Um so I encourage everyone to take a look at that for comparison's sake. Um as it relates to the CIP, um I think someone mentioned earlier um it would be nice for the town to have had a capital improvement plan. Um, as one of my goals as town manager when I began was to start create a capital improvement plan which we have done um and begin to identify um some of the capital needs that we that we can forecast over the next five years that is included on pages 49 and 50 um and that totals about $9.4 million which we are looking for grants for a good majority of these um items on the CIP list but some of which will have to be funded by the town as well particularly if we are in an emergency basis. Um so in summary uh on page f on page 52 um you can see the

department uh summary by fund as well as the totals um which total about $3.5 million. Uh at the end you can see the budget timeline which is where we are tonight uh which is where we are asking for uh the adoption of the rates um for the tax rates and then utility rates would come on the 5th. Um, at this point I will pause to answer any questions that you have and then I'll turn it over to Ted to get to the next item. So yeah, go ahead. So what uh India the this proposed budget is percentage-wise how much over FY25? I think it's in alignment with the targets that our financial adviserss have asked us to take a look at um beginning the 10 to 20% based on the expenditures that we've seen over time. Um and that we've experienced since the the COVID pandemic. Um so so the total budget number is about 19% 19% over correct the last correct. Okay. Thank you. Um, India, I heard you mention having the town hall be open and more accessible to the citizens. You said it would be open four days a week. Was that a misspeak or that is your plan only to open it one more day? I believe we had a conversation um at least in a conversation with um particularly one of the people from Berkeley that told I think you all as council that most towns of our size are only open four days a week um to the public due to the limiting staffing. If you all would like to have and be open five days a week, I think I would have to look at additional staffing to accommodate that based on where we are with the audits. But most towns of our size are only open four days a week at this point. Thank you, Mr. Voy. Yeah. just uh real quick. I I couldn't find the protector. It

might be in your your office. I don't know if Ted has anything to show, but you know, I I'd be willing to hook it up if we could find it. Okay. So, one one maybe clarification. So, right now we're open three days a week, but staff is here working on those Tuesdays and Thursdays. Absolutely. We are focused on the audit and the catchup from the years that are backlogged. One thing I I just want to say for clarification because it is it is I mean customer service is huge with me in when I shop or in my business and uh what's I think what has gotten mistaken is uh that we we're closed and that is true. two days a week. We We are such in a hole on catching up these audits to be able to with the limited staff we have to be able to work interrupted to try to catch up four years worth of audits that weren't done. I think we all should be asking why weren't they done? Uh we closed the office two days a week, so they're still here. They're working. I I hate it. I don't like it. I want it open every day of the week. But we find ourselves in a situation where we've had to do it and and it you know it doesn't set well with me but what doesn't set me well with me that we got into this position that we got behind on doing audits which are required by law and and I I don't understand and this was before I got back on council. I don't I don't I still don't understand why we why we didn't do it. So uh outrage for me is in that department. Thank you Mr. restored. Any other questions or concerns from Council Miss Davis? Your mic's on. Okay. At this time, we'll move on to um the town's financial outlook and rate setting

briefing for Mr. Ted Cole from Davenport Company. Welcome, Mr. Cole. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to be here. Um, so over the course of the last several months, we've presented a couple of different times to the the town council looking at um historical trends on the general fund and the utility fund. Um, as been discussed many times this evening, working with audited financials through FY22 and doing the best we could for fiscal years 23 and 24 and year to date 25 with financial information from the town's system, but not an ideal situation obviously when you're trying to do projections and um start to make some recommendations about things for you all to consider, which we've And in the general fund budget, I think the town manager has built a budget, if I heard correctly, around 13 cents per hundred real estate tax rate. And that's generally in line with the low end of our recommendation of a 10% revenue growth in the general fund. And how we arrived at that recommendation, if you will, is looking at the totality of the general fund budget. And these I'm going to talk through these and these aren't in any particular order but I think they're important considerations and and some of this has been mentioned by the public. Um the three major revenue sources in your general fund um real estate taxes um bank stock tax and meals tax with bank stock tax and meals tax representing in the range of about 50% of the the general fund revenues. And those are two revenues that you really have very little control over, right?

You're subject to what the banks are or aren't doing. Um who's here for banking and who's not perhaps and meals tax is driven by consumers and influenced by the economy. So um there is a bit of vulnerability, a lack of diversity, right, in the in the general revenues that are coming into the general fund. And so that is an observation we made. and and a a real estate tax rate is a more predictable source of revenue. It's one that you can control a little bit more by setting the rate. And so that was primarily why we focused on the real estate tax rate when we were discussing the general fund um recommendations, right? Not talking about the utility fund um based on what so so that's one thing, right? is is the ability to grow the real estate tax revenue further solidifies your revenue predictability. It exp it it it it heightens the diversification of your revenue and insulates you a bit from those other revenue sources that are significant but over which you have very little control. um based on the historical analysis that we've done again through FY22 trying to do our best to predict 23 and 24 operationally in the general fund. Um what we're seeing is uh a movement towards more of a deficit position in the general fund with expenses growing at a a faster clip than revenues. Um real estate tax revenue has been relatively flat. the bank stock tax and the the meals tax have been growing, but again those are subject to um outside forces. Personnel and personnel related expenses have been one of your primary expense growth items. So the recommendation to grow revenues was to

diversify revenues um focusing on the tax rate um insulates you from what I believe could be moving towards deficit results right in spending looking at what revenues and expenses are doing. We won't know that for certain until the audits come in. And so there's that timing gap, but but the trends that we looked at based on what we had to work with um the operating margin in the general fund appeared to be getting more thin. Um and to build reserves. Remember in an audit audit is as of June 30. That's a day, a point in time, and this is what your reserves are. But throughout the year, that fund balance is going to eb and flow as money comes in, as money goes out. Um and we had seen a trend of those reserves coming down. Keep in mind and this was just mentioned we're coming with the audit we have we're coming out of the period of time where ARPA funds were flowing and for a lot of local governments that enhanced cash flow right and and those monies have come to an end and and cash flow is a little more real now. um and building of reserves for general cash flow purposes I think is something worthy of your consideration and also in light of some of the things that you're dealing with um with unexpected expenditures for these events that have to be covered in the near term with the backdrop being there there is a concern that we would have if you said we need to go and borrow money we're We're behind on two years of audits, soon to be three, right? FY25 is going to come to an end here in another um month. Um and if we needed to go borrow money, um it would be a challenge being behind on audits. And so, I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it I

think it would be a challenge. And so having reserves maybe at a level a little more than what you might consider to be necessary um in this situation I think may help you to um manage those events. Not only manage your normal cash flow, money coming in and out but also manage these situations where unexpected events occur that you know you you have to pay for the pumps, you have to pay for whatever else is going on. So, it's the totality of all of those things that led us to the recommendation to consider growing the general fund revenues through the tax rate. Um, and the 13 cents that the manager has budget built her budget on is, you know, is I think a a step in the right direction. I know it's not insignificant. I know it's not an easy decision. I don't live here, but I certainly appreciate that. Um but in our opinion that was um an important consideration for you all on on growing these revenues and um you know if not this year you know it's just a deeper hole to get into potentially in the following year. So, I would think doing something sooner than later would be prudent, but um you've always got an opportunity to uh adjust going forward as you get better financial information to make future decisions on, but I think it's an important consideration for this budget. Um do you want me to cover utilities at this point or just briefly on utilities? A very similar process that we went through. Um and and there and and there was a recommendation of rate increases that we had on the water and sewer fund for many of the same reasons. Um less so about the diversity of of revenues, right? It's a very diverse revenue base. You're bringing money in from lots of users, different from the general fund, but the trends have been getting more

narrow from what we see revenues over expenditures. Um and maybe most importantly in the utility fund, not only a capital program that's just good practice, right? Repair and replacement, proactive um ma management of the system. But in in this case, um you know, a lot a number of emergency situations that are are pretty costly. And um if you if you just add up very rough numbers of the the the amount of projects that might be necessary and and and perhaps there are grant funds needed and things can be phased in, but you could be looking at something in the totality of about a million dollars a year of additional debt service. If you were to debt fund those projects, that would be an an additional expense of the water and sewer system that that that system today doesn't have an additional million dollars a year to cover debt service. And it's a it's a the recommendation for the rate increases is to build towards that because I think inevitably there's going to be some additional debt that has to be taken on even if it's 0% loan, right? there's still the principal repayment. So, there are grant programs out there where it's truly free money, but they usually come with a match and they're harder and harder to get. Um, and so the the the the rate increases and the revenue growth that we've recommended for the utility fund is to to shore up current operations. Yes, in the short term it will build reserves which I think are needed to cash flow these events, but it's also to position you to be in a place two, three years down the road where you can take on some additional capital or debt um to

to to fix the issues or to be proactive in your management of the system um rather than having to do it all at once. I'm happy to answer questions if there are any. um you want to build reserves in the utilities and that therefore the rate increases. So I understand that it was always my understanding that the utilities are supposed to pay for themselves. They're their own separate entity. Yeah, you're talking about we need money in the other side of the budget for repairs, for sewer repairs and emergencies and that utilities. I'm trying to understand why there's no distinction between the two. These lines are blurred to me, right? on the general fund less so about I mean ideally these emergency utility issues are covered out of the utility fund absolutely if that's possible if the reserves are there on the general fund the revenue growth we're talking about remember was about diversifying the revenue sources shoring up the operations and building reserves for whatever might be out there on the general fund side and I don't know what your capital needs needs are on the general fund side, but there may be um needs associated with that um that additional reserves will help you fund. But but it's also again to to get to a place where your operating revenues and expenses in the general fund are are better balanced because we're seeing that that operating um performance get more and more narrow and and the reserves are again the the the way we

measure it is at the end of the fiscal year. It's a it's a literally a point in time and and those reserve levels will eb and flow through the year and I think a stronger level of reserves as we measure at the end of the fiscal year just ensures better cash flow throughout the year. You have not been in a position where you've ever needed to borrow in advance of tax revenue. There are local governments that have that have to do that. I think you'd certainly want to avoid that if you possible because again access to capital right now is going to be very difficult for the town given the audit situation. So yes, I ideally these are completely separate, but in a time where there's some uncertainty, you know, if if there's a need to fund a utility project, you know, you may need to consider tapping into the general fund if the if the funds aren't there for the utility. Another question that I have. Go ahead, Mr. Stor. I thought you were ready. I lost my train of thought. I apologize. I Well, I can I say go ahead. Don't not to save you so you can think of whatever the thought was because I hate doing that myself. I mean, one thing that frustrates me is um on revenue is trying to, you know, everything in life gets more expensive every year. And I think the last census we had 1,111 people, right? All right. What's that number now? I'm willing to bet you it's less. I mean, if you factor in death and and moving, u the frustrating part is we don't seem to be promoting growth and and you know, in life or if it's a tree or if it's a anything, if you're not growing, you're dying. And we're trying to squeeze this, we're

trying to squeeze blood of the same number of peoples or less. And we're not and we're not growing. Uh I do you agree? I mean as far as Yeah. I mean I I think a growth I mean you know from from a financial perspective, right? I mean as a town, right? You're not providing schools. So you know that's there's a question maybe at the county level a bunch of new homes. Does that pay for itself a bit? as a town. Yeah, I think growth will bring new tax base um and new utility customers. Well, mainly I was speaking about utilities. We're talking about the utilities. You know, there's a water and sewer availability fee every time a house is built, right? And that that's not a that that's what should be going into making our utilities self-sufficient. You know, we ought not be subsidizing utilities. In a perfect world, they should pay for themselves. The problem is when there's stagnant and no growth and we have problems pop up at the plant or lines go down, we don't we don't have any money. You know, we've got to we've got to have these houses being built. Now, let's be realistic. Where where can they be built? We have a little bit of land out on the 301 corridor. But if we don't get some growth in here and these people putting money into the water availability fee, which goes straight should go straight to the plant, we're going to keep doing this and we're going to keep squeezing the same few people and it the same people are going to get less every year with death and moving on if we don't have any new people coming here. And I'm not just saying selling and buying houses. I'm talking about new growth. Um, I remember my question now. The bank stop, we get that at the end of our

fiscal year. I guess for my limited college accounting, I I don't understand why what we're getting at the end of this year goes into the fiscal 2025 budget. yet we don't know what it's going to be till the end of the year. Why isn't what we're getting in in 2025 put towards next year's budget because then we have this concrete amount of money we know we're dealing with. I it's like waiting for a guesstimate because you don't know what that amount's going to be. So to me it's very difficult to set a budget. It's like trying to plan your family budget on a Christmas bonus when you don't know what your Christmas bonus is going to be. Yeah. And I I I don't you know in terms of the mechanics of the budget if you were to sort of switch modes and um you know you've got you've got a bank stock revenue does it come in at the end of the fiscal year? I I don't know what time of year it comes in. So if you're getting that now maybe um and and you say I want to use that as the basis for my FY26 budget now you've got a whole presumably in the year we're in right because you were counting on that bank stock revenue. Um but we set this past year's budget based on what we think is going to come in next month. That's right. To me, that's not financial fiscal responsibility when you're planning a budget on whatifs. Uh Ted, if I may, um the mayor's correct. Um and I think that goes back to your original point about the volatility and the variability of some of these uh revenue sources and given that our bank stock and our meals are two of our largest and that's how

we've been relying. I think goes back to your original point about um how particularly there are some years where we would see deficits. Um, I was going to ask a follow-up question if he could explain a little bit more when you you mentioned um borrowing for short-term needs. Um, because people have been very, I think, interested in the budget now, which is great. Can you maybe explain a little bit more about a revenue anticipatory note, a rand that means, how that's kind of equivalent to what most people would probably know of like payday loans? Sure. And then a little bit about structural deficits. Um because I think there's some misconception around what one-time funds should be spent for and utilized for versus ongoing revenues. And I think that in historically maybe there have been some instances where um budgeting has happened where one-time revenues were used for ongoing expenditures. So if you clarify that for them. Good. You know, uh in local governments in Virginia are allowed to do what we call tax anticipation notes or revenue anticipation notes. And um it can be a general obligation of the town. Um it can't be outstanding for more than 12 months. It's limited. So there are places that have to do them every year because every year you have to close it out and issue a new one. But it is to going to the market and saying, you know, we we're going to be collecting taxes in the next several months, but we want to borrow today. um and front the money and we're going to have the tax money later in the year and that money will be available to um help pay back the loan when it's due. And again, it has to be due by it is due at the end of the fiscal year. So many local governments will issue those in July, the beginning of a fiscal year. They may not t collect their taxes until December. Um so this July money floats them through the fall. they get into a period of time where the tax revenue

comes in and then they have to pay that note off by June 30th. So that that's that's how a tax anticipation note goes and it's it's subject to the market participation, right? So you know you you have to you know solicit proposals and sometimes you get a handful and sometimes you don't get what you wanted and rates will vary. So, it's it's not a guaranteed that a lender will want to participate, but it's certainly open to local governments as an option to provide short-term funding if you have a cash flow concern. Um, having a a larger level of reserves allows you to self-fund, right? It it allows you to go through the calendar year without having to do a borrowing. Um, and again, you you have not needed to do that um that type of debt. Um, and and hopefully you won't find yourselves needing to do it. But the fact that that bank stock tax doesn't come in, it comes once a year. It comes at the end of the year. It, as I understand it, it is a a distribution from the state that is really just here. It is. I don't know that there's a a calculation that's done here locally. I think it's done at the state level and it's passed down. And so again, it goes back to the discussion of you have no control over that revenue. Um it's influenced by outside forces and um diversifying your revenue sources and the general fund I think generally um help to insulate you from that variability that could occur. Right. But if if if you used that on the front side of this budget process instead of trying to guesstimate what it's going to be at the end of the fiscal year, I would think

that we would be better better to better financially. Yeah, I think that would be a change in budgeting, right? And and I think that the challenge would be to implement that the first time because right now we're in fiscal 25 and that budget was built around this June collection of that money which we don't know what the amount will be and the budget was based on an estimate. A what if that's right and and budgets are based on estimates. Some are easier to estimate than others. But if you hypothetically said, I want to take the bank stock revenue that comes in in June of 25 and I want to use that as my 26 budget, which I it's money in hand at that point and you're using it to develop your 26 budget. The first time you do that, you're going to have a hole in the budget that we're in because we were count your budget was counting on that. So, you could evolve to that, but I think there would be a challenge to get there that first time. Not to say it's insurmountable. It just needs to be sort of thought through and managed and and I think there's merit to that if you wanted to get there because it is a significant part of your budget and it comes in at the end. Um and um budgeting it uh I guess in a rears maybe is the right term. Budgeting it when you know what you have and you use that for the subsequent year's budget puts that much more level of certainty in your budget but getting there I think could be a potential challenge but not not insurmountable. Thank you. Go ahead. um on on the bank stock tax and I think that would be something we would have to check with

the auditors because it could be an accounting it it has to acrue to the correct fiscal year. So I think that there would be I think our auditors would have questions um about that but that's something we could follow up on. Um, but I do think obviously I think there was at least some conversation we've had before about, you know, whether or not the bank is located in the town. And so building a future budget off of um bank stock as a general revenue source is risky, which is what I think um Ted was mentioning earlier. Um, in the event that that revenue was no longer there. Um, in fact, I I I remember looking on the news earlier um this week about the the the fire in town, and I wondered if there was a fire in town and our whole main street burnt down again, if our top two revenue sources are the bank and meals taxes and we have no businesses, how would the town fund itself? And I kept going back to the only answer you have is real estate and personal property. And so, just for the sake of the conversation, I just want to think that we need to be cognizant of what most um governments do in terms of best practices. Um because I think someone mentioned that most local governments you can see anywhere between 35 to 50% of their budgets being reliant on uh the real estate because it is um less variable and volatile. Yeah. I mean that that bank stock revenue is the equivalent of about 20 cents on your tax rate about $400,000 or so. and and right now under the new values that the county provided, each penny on your tax rate is generating um about uh 21 about $20,000. So, I'm not suggesting the bank stock goes away, but just order of magnitude. Would should something um cause it to change or or be disrupted, what have you, it's it's in the range of about 20 cents on the tax rate that it would take to replace that revenue. Um and you can do the math, you

know, in between. Um uh India had asked about deficit um spending or or um structural deficits. Yeah. I mean as a general rule right I mean current year revenues should be paying for current year expenses one-time revenues for one-time expenses. Um and you know in in during COVID um maybe some of that got to be a little bit of a challenge. That money was coming in and guidance was here and there from the the state and the federal about how that money can and should be spent. How it was accounted for is a question in any locality. Um and there may be some of that going on to sort of uh wean off of that. Um and um you know to the point earlier about even in the utility fund with the availability fees or the connection fees um you know if that money is coming in again that's driven by development activity right which is going to be influenced by the economy. If that money is coming in it's really one time and really understanding in your utility system how is that money being used? Is it supporting operations or is it truly being used for capital in the utility system? Right? Ideally, those one-time connection or availability fees that are coming in when a house is built or connected, you know, ideally they're funding some one-time expense or investment in the utility system rather than being treated like an operating revenue. and and that's an even additional sort of level of due diligence to do on the water and sewer system looking at if there's an expected increase in those connection fees really understanding how those are being used and and ideally not being co-mingled with the rate revenue that comes in

every month from payers and and I will say u that that's exactly if I didn't communicate it right because years ago when I was on council before we Steve Manster, our town manager at the time, used to call it, we put that money into the lock box, right? And that lock box grew and grew and when we had a big collapse on Main Street, we fixed it. Or if we had a gross alpha problem at the plant, we fixed it. We didn't take that money and pay put it on payroll down at the plant or new vehicles or tools. It was a lock box for that purpose. And that's that's what is I don't know where the lock box is anymore. And and We're not adding to the lock box because we're don't not we're not growing, right? Wouldn't that lock box basically be a CIP? I mean, that's right. A CIP is a way to create goals to fund and create that discipline to fund. So, Mr. Manster was the last person to have his lockbox. I've been on council for several years and through three town managers and every time I've asked about let me see CIP I was told we don't have one and why would that be? So in what scenario and on what planet would a town not have one? And for me that is part of our biggest challenge here is we've never had that CIP. The lock box has been locked with nothing in it. And here we are now here in the last four or five years in the lava pit of hell. So I'm just trying to figure out or better I should say explain to people what a CIP is. I think people

have a challenge understanding what that is or why do we need reserves. um for those reasons. It can be very confusing. Um and I think maybe they would benefit from that. Does that make sense? The first thing I'd like to say is the CIP is a capital improvement. That's right. Now, go ahead. Right. I mean, whether it's in the general fund or the utility fund, a capital improvement plan that is a forward look. So if you had one right now, the first year of it would be FY 26, the year you're about to go into and maybe it goes three years, five, 10. And it identifies, it's revisited every year because things change, but it identifies all of those capital needs that are needed in subsequent years. Um, it ideally isn't a wish list. It's a list of needs based on some prioritization based on department heads submitting and then some sort of vetting by yourselves or some other committee that says these are the priorities and it gives you a roadmap to start to um make decisions on your about your budget, how to fund um these reserves, how to position yourself. This is a large project. It's two years out. If we have to borrow for it, the debt service is going to start in the third year. We need to be prepared for that new payment. And just it's just good management and they come in all short sorts sizes and shape, but but um it's it's a tool to plan and that's the cap it's on the capital side. And then you you know you got to marry that up with the operating side, right? and and and we're talking about audits, we're talking about budgets, we're talking about CIP, we might be talking about policies and and no one of those

things is going to solve the issue. They've all got to come together to make to to recognize the benefit of any of them. And um I mean you know just the audit situation you know you got you're sort of operating with one one hand tied behind your back because you you you it's hard to build a budget when you don't have a great sense of the prior year but you got to move on. You got to develop a budget and you got to push on and um that's just Sure. Go ahead. Mr. India, can you remind me? I know we've looked at some of the capital expenditures that we're anticipating with our water and sewer, you know, currently or within the very near future. Could you just highlight those for me one more time just to generally what we think they are? Uh, pull it up. So, just on the general fund side, um the town hall rehab phase two, that's about 75,000. There's a playground revitalization in here, which we have as grant funded, um at about 350,000. Uh we'll have to replace a police patrol vehicle, uh which we have in here is grant funded at about 20,000, which we hope to get, um from USDA as we have before. Uh well replacements, modification, and radionuclei treatment. Um that's about 8.2. Um that's where that number comes from. So just real quick on that, how did we come up with that number? That is the number that our engineers from Stantech um came up with through their and asked you know did was was there a peer associated with that or did are they looking at it and just coming up with an estimate? Do you know how they there? I think I believe their engineers estimate based on um their analysis over the last I don't know seven or eight months at

this point. Okay. Um the other one was um F1 uh S truck F-150 for the water fund. Um they'll need to be two replace 27 and 28. We have that as grant funded. Hopefully um USDA as well. Um the we added just for this fiscal year the main street sewer repair. Uh we estimated that as about 1.5. Uh courthouse lane repair about 175. There are generator lift stations at Meadows Lane um at about 60. The Oakidge generator lift station that'll be in 2755. Lacy Lane 60 and 28. Uh wastewater treatment plant um upgrade um in 27 and then equalization basin um in 30 uh for the plant. Um, I will say at the kind of a the big picture that we've been looking at initially as it relates going back to the uh well replacements and modification and radionuclei treatment as it relates to the items that we are mandated to do by our VDH uh Virginia Department of Health consent order um that we entered into last year um are items that we're looking at at the highest priority. Um we obviously hope to get um our grant funded uh from the state, but we do not know the status of that at this point. um that'll probably be within the next several months, but if we do um are able to have the full grant funds awarded, we still would have to have a 25% match. Um and that's something that we've been discussing with Davenport and ways to look to fi finance that given um our challenges with um the backlog of the audits. Um as well as you're saying because we haven't had the audits, it's I mean it's very very difficult to get any any funding. It is very difficult. I will say because I worked through the general assembly process with uh Senator Stewart, we were um kind of top of the line as it relates to um priorities. So it was us in Green County and the city of Portsouth. Prior to me working for the town, I worked in government relations at Virginia Tech um alma marta in um government relations

and have been working with the legislature to work to bring localities um additional funding in pretty much every position I've been in and been pretty good at that. Um, so that is something that I worked through the last general assembly session um on with Senator Stewart and we're grateful to be prioritized um for that grant process. What happens if we don't get it? We'll have to go for another alternative route. And so that's that's the issue that we're under consent. Correct. So, and just so people know, that's the gross alpha issue. Everybody hears gross alpha. That is a naturally occurring radioactive isotope down in the ground that we didn't cause. It fluctuates. it moves in the aquifer. Some localities have it, some localities don't. We test our wells all the time and our several of our wells come back with gross alpha. And so to fix that, to filter that, to clean that out, it it'd be $8.2 2 million dollars of no fault of our own, but um it has to be done because a consent order means um the state is making us do it, which you know, I guess they should, but you know, I just find it hard to believe that it it costs that much and you know, we certainly need to to work on trying to get that number down best we can and we'll certainly do that. But I mean, that's what our and that includes we need to look at now. Yeah, just to be clear that includes all of the wells, the piping and the facility to treat it. So that is that inclusive cost based on um what they've been able to provide. The other item we've been discussing with Davenport is the waterline project that was planned I think back in 2018 or so um which uh project costs have pretty much doubled since COVID. So we're looking at downsizing that. But the first portion of that project, the 1.5 roughly for the meters has been completed. Um but we are currently paying um interest only on um that portion of the project uh which we just um extended um that that loan um the interim note with co-ank at our two

council meetings ago and we have till April of 26 for that. Um and so if that project's not completed we will have to uh finance that and find another financing mechanism to u pay off that amount um as well in addition to the approximately 1.2 2 1.5 that we have on these emergency projects. So, um, what are we what are we doing with the remainder of our sewer lines? I mean, I know that we're fixing the portion that has failed and has been failing for a year now, you know, but we have a lot of sewer lines that were put in in the 1940s on Main Street that are probably not in much better shape. Have we are we looking to do anything with those? You know, we've talked about analyzing and sliplining and, you know, I guess we haven't been the town for a number of years now. We've not been proactively looking at how to uh to maintain those and if we had, maybe we wouldn't have these large failures that run us the what the 1.5 million to to repair. So, can you talk to that and what how you're dealing with it, how you're planning with it, and how we're funding that? Absolutely. Um, so as a reminder, I got here in January of 2024, so I can't speak too much to the to the look back, but um, as a best practice, as our um, contractors have um, highlighted that we should be budgeting probably about $20,000 a year, if not more, uh, for camaring of our system through town. Um, and that's something that, um, as part of these, um, additional fees and resources that we're looking to raise, we'll be doing. Um, and then slip lining where we can. Um I think Randy mentioned that u council member Hman mentioned that at a couple meetings ago that we should be planning whether it's 50,000 per line or per section to begin slip lining some of these older um um lines that we see and then also obviously addressing the water. that uh we are working with a nonprofit group that we've been connected through the state um which has basically saved us probably

about $120,000 worth of engineering cost that we would have had to incur um otherwise uh to work on a potential GIS um plan so we can better assess where things are um highlight where we fixed and then have a intentional plan year-over-year uh for the most critical areas moving forward um as part of our normal CIB moving forward. for any other questions. I'd also just want to touch on something um Ted said a little while ago about discipline um and policies. Um when the auditors were here on site on May 9th, they asked where were our financial policies and I had to tell them that the town does not have any. And they looked at me like a deer in the headlights and said why not? And I said uh we had been working with um Davenport as something on our list um to get that completed. And I think as as council member Stork mentioned earlier asking questions about how we got here in these four years with no audits. Um I would encourage us um as soon as we can um to get some financial policies in place as we talk about these targets so that it's not a guessing game and as you mentioned mayor um that we are not uh guessing so much in some areas so that we have a clear policies that you all would have to adopt and so that whoever in this seat um even beyond my time here uh they will be held accountable to ensure that when they are reporting on these things and when our audits are coming back there we are hitting those financial targets for cash on hand um and that we're hitting the best practices as GFOA uh which is the government financial officers association or to ensure that we have that appropriate cash on hand so that we're not put in a place where we're looking at these revenue anticipatory notes um or operating in structural deficits moving forward. I'll just share as someone who is born and raised in Bowling Green. I'm not sure if everyone knows me. Um I obviously do care about this town immensely and one of the reasons I chose to came back to come back. Um, but I've also been a part of teams that have led uh budget uh GFO budget um organizations and have won several budget awards for ensuring that

we are in and the organizations that we're working in have the appropriate mechanisms in place. And I'm pledging to you all that that is my effort to continue um to rebuild our financial management along with council um with the help of our adviserss. And I know that it is difficult um but we are working to get there and to write the ship back. Thank you. Um, one of the problems personally for me on the budget was looking at the um, salary overheads and I looked for actual position salaries. Many jurisdictions have them posted. It's a foyable item. We don't have those listed. So in looking at the different departments, I know that we have consultant fees. I know that we have positions that have salaries and packages attached to them. I personally would feel more comfortable if I had a breakdown of that that we could see how much of this is going to emboden or for the audit because as we get caught up on the audit these services in my understanding should go down. So where will those funds be converted? But first of all, I would like to know how much those funds are because you cannot break anything down based on the budget that was put out. Uh the voting contract, which uh was brought to this council, not on on your watch, Madame Mayor, but last year um totals $330,000. I'd like to remind us that uh this council was presented um

with an emergency um essentially our previous provider gave us um a deadline of May 30th to find another provider and an operator for our plant. We at the direction of council at that time put out an RFP. Only one person responded which is the operator that we have currently. Um that is the total for that. They did absorb um two of our FTEEs as a part of their team but they are required to operate that plant 24/7. Um, and that is the cost there. Excuse and I go ahead. Um, I I'm glad you brought that up because I wanted to address it was I mentioned in the public comment portion theou we had with Caroline County and so that that goes right to the heart of that. Um, under under our current leadership and staff, uh, we are doing the best things for our citizens in in the in the stewardship of their money. And I I'll give that example. When I first got back on council two and a half years ago, um same problem existed. We we can't keep staff. You know, they they come here and they get a higher paying job anywhere else. And so when I got back on council, uh we lost just about all almost well a lot of the staff at the at the water and sewer treatment plant. and we reached out to Caroline County in aou memorandum of understanding and asked for their help to come in and help us operate our plant because we you can't not have that and so and thankfully they did and uh and they worked with us for a period of time and um it was I take it from them I think it was a strain on their staff and infrastructure because they were coming on and the important thing to remember about thatou was that we were paying them for what it cost them and so and

that was going along good. Uh it you know it was a great emergency but it wasn't sustainable because it was a tax it was it was it was um taxing their infrastructure and their staff and but we were being charged. They weren't doing it for free. And so we looked at it from the standpoint of let's just see what we could what this would cost us if we didn't have to rely on our our county partners. And we put bids out. And so we not only got only got one bid, but the bid that they gave us was less than what we were doing paying under the emergency. So anytime you have an emergency, you can expect to pay a little extra. But we did the wise thing. We we we severed theou after the emergency was over and we hired a company that we that we're paying less money to to manage our plant. And I might say it's been the fix to not being able to keep good full-time staff because we just can't afford to pay them. So, thank you. Madam Madame Mayor, to answer the second part of your question as it relates to the consultants, um I believe I think you're referencing the audit and the CPA line item. Um again, um last year, I think prior to your your your term as mayor, um the prior council, um approved an agreement for um an outside consulting firm called Roto formos, which is a um an audit firm, a pre- audit firm that helps smaller localities do all of the pre- audit work. Um I don't I'm not sure that people quite understand and grasp even though we are a small town. We have hundreds of items that we have to provide as a part of the audit process from ICM ARC the VRS to VC state items federal items. Um there are several parts of the audit process that just with uh really two and a half people in finance is not really able to

um sustain internally based on the backlog. Will there be at a point where where we at a point where we will incur less audit fees? Absolutely. But we are probably at least two to three years away from that. And I understand that. That's not my concern. My concern is there's no delineation on the budget that says these are consultant fees, these are actual salary fees. And it's hard without the position salaries because the way the budget is written. If you as our town manager works in three different departments, your salary is reflected out of three different departments. I can't figure that out on the budget. When you have a position salary list that says, "Okay, your town manager, your your town finance director, your town clerk, your town whatever, these are what the salary packages are. I can sit down and do basic simple math as most people can without being an accountant and I can say, okay, this is what's left over. These are our fees that we are paying for these consultants to come in these these people who are um experts in these situations. But I can also look at that same thing and say okay well these are also this is what's going to be going away. And it's my understanding we have we're on the third really bad audit. Once we start getting to 2024, the the audit should become easier and easier and and we should be able to accelerate this process and these should be fees we shouldn't have to pay anymore at a certain

point. Am I wrong? I think there are challenges that still remain based on the systems that have been put in place that will probably be and result in some challenging audits all the way until we get up to our new financial system which will probably be in result on the 20 FY26 audit. So thank you. Go ahead Mr. Stewart. Oh okay Mr. Voit. Yeah. Um, with what you were just asking, um, the consultants are separate on there because I I see where those big increases were. So, I that that's the CPA section, the auditing section under the administration area. They're definitely there. They are they are separated. They're not itemizes and this is this company, that is that company. Um, but they are separate from the the salaries for all of our employees. That said, I I I would agree with what you're saying. I I would like to see that breakdown of of everything where everybody is, the percentages, who's in what department or title wise, who's in what department, etc. I just want to clarify that part. Thank you. Any other questions from council? Oh, I did have more. I just didn't go. Yeah. Okay. Um, let's let's go back. Uh, says the enterprise funds. Is Ted still care? Yeah. Okay. Well, maybe you can probably answer this, Indie. Um, so when talking about the enterprise funds, we we do come back again and again to they should be standing for themselves. They shouldn't ideally be subsidized. Um, this budget is sending over $200,000 into the sewer fund. Um, and just to put that in perspective, that's 20 cents of general fund money. If we if you wanted to say you were funding that purely from the real estate tax, that's 20 cents right there.

Um, what that's going to make me feel is if these enterprise funds are already getting these other increases that we're talking about, rather than subsidize it, we maybe should have talked about increasing them even more. Um but you know what was what was the thought in in uh that that because that is a sizable increase from last time it was 120 I want to say have it over here. Yeah for current year the subsidy was 120 and so going from 120 to over 200. Sure. Um, so I think what you're really getting to the root cause of is uh budgeting philosophies and everybody anybody who puts together a budget who's tasked with proposing a budget may have different budget budgeting philosophies and best practices. Anywhere else I would have been, I would probably say you follow best practices and do that. This is not that case. Um throughout this budget process, we were thrown curveball after curveball, including caverns in the middle of a road that had to be shut down immediately, which changed some of our our projections and what we were going to do and proposed to Main Street. Um same thing with uh sewer collapses, having to put in bypasses um in the middle of this process on top of the challenges that we already had. Um, so I think what it what it speaks to really is budgeting philosophy as to whether or not the general fund should be subsidizing enterprise funds. And short answer is no. Um, as we speak to um whether or not some comments that came up earlier about renters and burdening um certain folks more than others, um I do think we have to be sensitive to um our rates given that the town has probably never had a professional rate study done and completed. And if I'm wrong, I'd love someone to to give me the most recent one so we can pick up on that. Um, but most places would have rate studies done on a regular basis and a semi-regular basis so that you're planning for appropriate rate increases along the way so that you don't have to increase them all at once. I'm also thinking I think in speaking with you a couple weeks ago

or months ago um that the USDA stipulation encouraged that we do 10% along the way um in three consecutive years, which would have been a 30% increase along the way. I was not privy to that knowledge last year and last year we increased no taxes, no real estate, no utility fees anywhere. So some of that is we are learning as staff along the way based on the information that we have um to make and better informed decisions on where we should be and where we need to be coupled with some of the failures that we seen at the plant. As relates to the drying bed failures, we have seen a significant cost. We budgeted, I believe, 80 I think 85,000 for sludge this year. Um and we're now at 225,000. that was before the sewers collapsed. So, in addition to the plant that the sludge that we were hauling from the plant um on a weekly basis to another plant because the county then rejected um our sludge because of um some of the conditions of the sludge. We were paying more to send that further away to handover. Um in addition to that, we were hauling sludge from um the collapsed sewer here as well as um some courthouse. So, the sludge costs in general um are going to go up um because of some of those challenges um this year. Um as the drying beds aren't drying, we're having to continue that on a more frequent basis into the next fiscal year if we're able to either obtain a grant to fix those drying beds or if council wants to make a decision to um pay again to recondition or fix the drying beds um fix the root cause of those drying beds, then we could see those sledge costs come down probably in a subsequent year. looking at FY27. Um but for right now that is uh where they are. So yeah. Um no, understandable. Um and I I guess now is a good time to bring up that uh the majority of this budget was done by yourself in lie of having a finance director for the last couple months. So I did have an interim finance director for about 60 days and then she left because she moved as well. Um so yes, you're correct. So, as many

gripes as I'm going to have, I I still appreciate that it got done. Um, excuse me. Were you going to say something? Yep. I I had one just you were talking about the sludge and the drying beds and I know the county wouldn't allow us to go to their wastewater plant because we had a filamentous issue but that filamentous issue we resolved it and so we had asked the county as a savings if we could start paying them to dump there instead of us having a long haul. Did we ever hear back from the county? Yes. I believe they sent a letter to council a couple weeks ago and I'll let you all speak to that last week. They're hauling their They won't let us. No. Oh, wow. It's at too much of a cost and a burden. They're having to haul theirs now. So, that would just be taken to them for them to take somewhere else. Do we know why they're having to haul theirs? I could not say. Um, we have someone here who could answer that question, but I don't know that if it's within our uh if I have that permission to bring them up. We probably should stay focused on our own. Okay. For the sake of discuss any other discussion from council to the USDA thing that you mentioned a second ago, the 30% um council did accomplish that aspect. It was supposed to be done within three years of 2123 and it just um it was supposed to be 10 10 just went 1505 is what that did. Uh so then we we didn't do anything last year. Um obviously we should have u but just putting that out there that we weren't like told by USDA to do anything last year. Um, so talked about

the we a lot of our surrounding localities um they just commit to regular increases on a schedule and that's something that we're going to have to look at doing at some point um so that we can get lower increases instead of these massive ones. If I can add, I was actually on a call with someone earlier this week um that's looking to probably help us do a rate study for free from one of the nonprofits that we're working with from the state. Well, that would save a few dollars. Yes, we we try. Any other questions or discussion from this council? And if I may, mayor, um particularly on the the question you had about salaries and the cost allocations, um everyone in public works is is cost allocated 3333 across funds. Um I'm a cost allocated at about 20% to sewer. Same thing with the finance director and the financial clerk. Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Stark. So, so we we had zero increase last last budget, correct? Across the board. So, you know, not raising rates is popular, but it's not practical, right? Um, this year, this budget happens to fall on a year where the county has done their four-year reassessment. So, and it's gone up tremendously. And so, that puts a big spotlight, of course, on everything that we do. So with the reassessment, the old tax rate on the real estate was what before the equalization. I'm going to ask Ted to come back up if you can help with that.

So before the reassessment, right? What was the old tax rate on on the real estate? 11 cents per 100. Okay. And then with the increase in the assessment to equalize it, make the numbers the same for the citizens tax pocketbook, what would the equalization number be? to to equalize so that it it brings in the same amount to the town. Right? At 11 cents at the old tax base, you all were bringing in about $140,000 of real property tax revenue. the values went up and the same at the higher values um the tax rate that would generate the same amount of revenue to the town is about 6.5 cents. So 11 cents under the new values the revenue neutral rate is approximately six and a half cents David but keep in mind the real estate tax rate was at 13 cents precoid and it went down two cents. Right. Exactly. I just think it's sometimes it's hard to comprehend what that equalization means. I mean it doesn't it it just means if everything was to stay the same. I think the telling thing is we did we have a tax increase the year before? You don't know probably. I don't believe so. I think the tax decrease happened during COVID and sometime during that time frame 21 or 22. I think I I I always like when I when I look around at my business I try to compare myself to comparables and what they're doing what their expenses are and so forth. And I think it's telling in the in the budget that she provided, you know, she gives us about 10 other localities. Now, and if you if you look,

you know, this starts on page 47, but I I don't think the counties are comparables, right? Because they're going to be higher. I think the towns are comparable. And so, we've we've got sheets that show us five different towns. And, you know, there's no two towns exactly the same, you know, and uh size-wise. We've got Bowling Green is Ashlin, Gordensville, Tabahhanic, and Warsaw. Uh so that's five, you know, counting us, that's five localities. And you know, on the water and sewer costs, we're lower than three of the other ones right now. All right. Uh on the assessed value, the real estate, uh we're lower than one of the other five or five counting us, one of the other four. On the meals tax, we're exactly the same. One is a little No, we're exactly the same. There's one higher, but if we raise it to seven will be the highest income. Yeah, you're right, Gordonville. Uh, and then on the personal property, uh, we're we're lower than one other. So, you know, everything's got to be in perspective. And the best, you know, we you know, well, everybody's going to leave here. Where are they going to go? And it'd be cheaper. Not in any comparable localities unfortunately is the answer. Are you done Mr. Stewart? Yeah, I'm sorry. Anyone else? Mr. Voit. All right. Yeah. Going back to the the salaries thing again. Um and and maybe I'm wrong. I don't know exactly what you were asking for for Mayor. Um but you know what I would be interested is not uh not just like like you just you gave us like the emboden thing entirely and that's that's cool. Um but with with the other staffing like you know when I look at the at the budget here you know I know that there is more from the you know council

manager office budget for you know what you said how you're split between the others but if I was trying to tabulate like how many employees are in a department and what the total salaries for that department are I I want to be able to attach that to those titles and be like I have this many clerks I have this many you know administrative assistants and stuff like that and you know I would like to see that info at one point for, you know, bud budgeting purposes, just to to know when we're asking about increasing staffing levels or decreasing staffing levels or reassigning anything. I I kind of need to have some sort of parameter to know what I'm looking at to see what those numbers are. Um, and then when we talk about adding hours or decreasing hours, you know, full-time, part-time, and everything like that. Thank you. Anything else from this council? I'll have some things when we get to the next item. I'd like to make a motion that we go with the 13 cents on real estate as Enda has proposed and 20 cents on water, sewage, and that's okay. state 13. Are we all done with Mr. Cole? Mr. Cole, happy to say. Thank you for coming and speaking to the town and to the council. Thank you. It's much appreciated. Let's wait for the town manager to get

back before we endeavor in making any motions. Okay. She brings that propel and she did not add a copy to be able to step it Okay. Just for the year. Okay. Madame Mayor Councilman, I'd like to ask Ted another question. Ted, if back up, please. I think he left. Oh, he did. He is here. Welcome back, Mr. Cole.

did looking at over overall town financial situation and what we got at hand with the repairs we're doing on Main Street right now for over a million dollars and the one we just did on Courthouse Lane for $200 some thousand dollar. We got several tax rates in front of us. We got 13, we got 15, we got 17, we got 20. We have to be able to have some money to do the CIPs and we have to have the money to fix the problems we have at hand right now and the town doesn't have that money. What as a financial advisor to the town, what do you think would be a good rate? Should we go at 13 now or should we go at 15 to try helping the situation that we're in? because 13 is bare minimum is what I'm thinking. And I'm I'm not trying to trying to raise the tax on. It's affecting me too because we all live in town. I get that. And um I've heard numerous times this week, well, you're a renter. It doesn't affect you. Yes, it does. Every time the insurance goes up on that house I'm in, every time the tax goes up, I pay the burden. The landlord is not going to lose any money. So, it's like we had somebody talk earlier, rent goes out of goes out of the ceiling. Um, yes, I chose to rent instead of purchase because I moved all all around the United States most of my life because of military and other jobs that I had. But, um, you know, that was my decision to do it. But, as overall, I've been here in this town since 1992. A lot of people been here a lot longer, but I don't want to leave the town. I mean, I I know it's going to cost me more, but I don't want to see us go defunct on loans and the town fail and has to give it to the county because the county wants to charge us more just to do our sewer than the company that we have doing it currently right now. So, where as a financial adviser do you

think we should go with this? What is a comfortable level to start building? I know I'm putting you on the spot, but what is a comfortable level to where we could start getting a little bit ahead and not always be in a crisis mode, which we are right now? Yeah. Uh, you know, based on what we've seen and and I think as time goes forward, I would hope that you're going to have better information to make these decisions. our low end of our range which was um again based on the best information we have was 10% and that's at 13 pennies would be about a 10% increase in terms of generating a 10% increase of revenue in the in the general fund. Um and you'll have another shot at this to assess it uh in a year. I I think you've got to balance that with the the the reality of what it means to people and um given the revenue neutral rate right now is 6 1/2 cents. Um it's not an insignificant adjustment to go to 13. And I I guess just my personal opinion that maybe seems like it strikes a balance based on the finances of where we're trying to get to. And again, it's it's consistent with albeit the lower end of our estimates or recommendations, but it is consistent with the range. Thank you, Mr. Roy. I'd like to put you on the spot, too, since we're doing that now. Okay. Sorry, in advance. Um, so on on kind of like a different end of that, can you speak to a last time you seen a locality go this hard at it all at once? Um, I've seen it. Yes, absolutely. I've seen it. Uh, it's never easy. Um, but it

usually is, um, a function of some bad events, um, missed opportunities in prior years to take smaller bites at the apple and get things done. But yeah, it's it's, uh, it happens certainly, Mr. St. Well, so what? So our town manager has presented us a budget that the dollar amount is based on 13. Correct. Yes. So how do we you know what do we what do we cut if you know if we don't if we don't do at least 13 we don't have a budget and if we don't get the bank stock amount that was put in that budget will we have a shortfall there also and and so my question to you you guys and our what we have to say think about is is there fluff in her budget. Do we feel like, and you know, if you put a gun to my head, said, "David, if we had to cut something, what would it be?" I mean, we could cut the $34,000 that we spend on events, you know, and and and I, you know, but $34,000 is not that there there's not a guys, there's not a lot of fluff in this budget. I mean, uh, the easy thing to do is to kick the can down the road. Uh 13 is just the number that meets this budget. It's not it's not putting anything else away aside. Um you know, shame on us and and us is over a lot of years of not incrementally keeping up with times. So there there's no fluff in this budget. There's I don't know what else we can cut. uh and and that 13. So that

13 is just a minimum. You know, I know it's a that's a huge jump from 6.5 to 13, but I challenge anybody to that has looked at this budget. Tell me tell me where we're heavy. Yeah. What was the rate prior to CO? There was a time it was 13. Was it 13? Yeah. Forget how long. 12 and so then it reduced and they were saying 13 would take us back to 2020 that would not be equalized that that that pulled in a completely different revenue number and I think to to maybe your point before that I think it was maybe 2016 before the last time anything was um adjusted Mr. Um, yeah. Uh, fluff. Well, everybody's going to have a different kind of perception of that. I I would assume where to cut. I mean, when when you start cutting, you're you're doing just that. You're cutting. You're getting less for certain things. Um, and it's up to each of us of what we're comfortable with. I'll tell you what I'm comfortable with. Okay. All right. You go with that. Me, I'm comfortable in the world of 10. Okay. It's more but less. Um where I would cut. I have looked through this budget. Um I had some concerns still uh some I spoke to a minute ago like with the salaries and everything. So I don't really know I like like I couldn't cut any positions even if I wanted to because I don't really know where where what is. Um so I didn't really focus on that very much. I mean, I, you know, don't want to cut staff anyway, but um where I would cut three cents off, I would take 2 cents off of, so ascent being 21,000. Put that on the floor there. Um, I'd take uh 42,000 out of that subsidy that goes to

the water sewer. I would then um take another penny from the transfer that goes from this the water fund into the sewer fund. Okay, that first subsidy goes straight to the sewer. So basically, I'm talking about removing a penny from each of them. Okay? I'd cut the contingency funds because that's the only non-fully committed fund in each of those things. Like I can't argue fuel, I can't argue, you know, maintenance, everything like that. And a lot of those other line items in there have been increased fairly substantially. Um, obviously I'm accepting and acknowledging that when you're talking about contingency funds, those are the, you know, what if type funds, but those are the ones that are low hanging fruit that I can look at. Um, so I take a penny from each of those. In my mind, that puts us down to 11 on the general fund side. Um, I would take about 10K off of the council manager contingency fund. Um, and then from there, I was having a little bit of a harder time. I'd cut at least one of the music on the greens. Those are about 800 a pop. Um, but right now we're really talking about setting the tax rates. Not the weeds of the budget, but I think we could find another 8 9k in there between different things. If you want to get rid of the parade or the harvest fest, those are obviously options. Not ones I particularly want, but that's kind of the world I'm in. And if you wanted to haggle me, I'd maybe go to the 11, but I'm in the world of 10 for it. Mr. Hman, with your 10, what's the overall savings on the budget? What's the dollar amount? Uh, that would be 21,000 times three. So, yeah, about 60 63, which is peanuts to what we're dealing with on the road road right now on Main Street. Mhm. Yeah. This is just to ease the real estate burden. I don't all these people are here for. I understand that. But if we don't have sewer in the town, we can't provide sewer in town to the to the residents,

then we're just as bad as not trying to fix a sewer. We still have a,000 ft of sewer on Main Street that's 1943 old. We got 520 ft we're replacing right now costing us a million dollars. What's that other thousand going to cost us down the road? And that affects a lot of people in town. No sewer again. And I don't like raising anything either, but how are we gonna we have to pay for it somehow? No, absolutely. And I mean $60,000 when you're talking $60,000 to a million dollars road project and then we're in fluff like David said, if we get another 500 ft we have to replace in three months, where is that money going to come from? I mean, we had one contractor give us a bid of 1.5 million just to do the 520 we're fixing now for a million. You know, I just I I where are we a good guy and where are we a bad guy? We're a bad guy if we don't fix the sewer and we're a bad guy if we raise the raise the taxes. I hate it, but I that I agree with you. They put us in here. We're trying to make the best decision for the town and for the town's people, be it sewer, waters, whatever. I mean, courthouse lane, a cavern that was big enough to fit five coffins in. That's why the county shut us down. It could have collapsed and how many cars would have went in there? How many people could have been hurt? The fire, truck, and ambulance. If we would let it go that far again on any other ones, we've got to have a little bit of money built in to take care of some of these problems because how many how many um water mane breaks and little things did we fix in the last year? And what did that cost us? Just to clarify, that the county didn't shut the road down. That was VOTE engineer. I just want to clarify that for the record. Um, but going back to 23, we had I think it was uh over 20 plus water main breaks. And quite frankly, I have not kept up with the amount of breaks

that we had this year on the waterfront because of the sewer the sewer impacts. Repair of those 200,000 here, 100,000 there. I mean, it just it just I don't know. They they they are definitely in the hundreds of thousands of dollars in repairs, which is why that those contingency line items were added in in in those in those budget line items. But and we have fire hydrants that need to be replaced. So what we're doing is sitting here kicking the No, we're having a discussion. We're not kicking anything down the road. So I would Mr. Web asked to speak so before we make this motion. Well, excuse me. Go ahead. You know, we were talking about the activities. You know, that was what 345. You know, typically I remember that harvest festival we always budgeted 35, but it always paid for itself or maybe we even made a little is that and you know, do we include any revenues? I just don't remember in the budget to offset that. So the if you're asking if the revenues from the sponsorships are included um in the projections, the answer is yes to that. I can't really speak to the historical data of sponsorships because the record keeping hasn't that's just my recollection that you know we always budgeted 35ish and we but we always brought in and it was kind of always a wash and in terms of of of the cash um I will say in terms of um I will say in terms of um vendor fees uh we had more than I think we ever had at last year's Harvest Festival as well as um attendance the largest attendance in the last five years Miss Coyle yeah I Just to Dan, um, we don't make any money on Harvest Festival. We may get some revenue from sponsorships should there be any

sponsorships, um, which there really is never enough, but for making money, it's it's dead for us. We do not make a dime on hard festival. We do get meals tax, don't we? I'm talking about a revenue source other than that. other than a meals tax. Okay, we other than sponsorship and nobody goes out and does sponsorship. I mean, getting a $100 or $500 from whomever is is pennies. You need to be getting two and $3,000 or maybe every business, and I know you're not going to like this, every business on Main Street should say, "Let me participate." We don't get that kind of sponsorship. And it's not easy getting sponsorship if you don't know how. Mr. Web, and the only thing I was saying is we budget a $35,000 like it's we're spending that much, but we always recoup that. We we we don't make money, but we don't I just wanted I think to to clarify too, Mr. where I think there was maybe a time when you had a a business development and economic development manager and the planning of the harvest festival was that person a large portion of that person's job um to drive tourism and help with economic development and that position was eliminated in COVID which we have not brought back in terms of I know there's been conversations around staffing but there's still um lower staffing levels today than there was pre-COVID so just want to share that um actually when we first moved here back at the turn of the century country. Uh, harvest festival was put on by the citizens. It was a volunteer activity. The town didn't pay for it. Citizens paid for it. Citizens worked it. They recruited the people that were there, the vendors, everything. So, you know, and and I and I was one of those guys.

And we we rode those horses in the ground and it and it was a great event and we decided we decided when volunteerism went down and we had to step in to to keep that going that we had to step in and put the bill. You're right. Everything that's ever started like the Christmas parade yes was started by Chamber of Commerce used to it all volunteer but volunteerism is gone you know by and large and and it's it's a it's an exhaustive thing. So, you know that we had to if we wanted to keep it going, we had to we had to pick it up down Mr. White. Well, just we're talking about Harvest Festival. Um it uh the the revenues are are separate. They're listed in here. You know, we we have actuals of 15,000 for current year and you we have our proposed and everything on here. Um it's never going to be fully captured in in the budget though because like you know we've the last several years what four years now we we we've hired a person to do it that'll be in the budget but there's still other staff time that's that's not really captured correctly and so we get as close as we can with this but there there are revenues and there are expenditures and no it does not make money bring money like like you're saying. Um but you know that's the thing I think that's store I I think two or three telling things. One is what Dr. Chanel brought brought up about what the rate was precoid and then we reduced it and then we never bounced back from that. I mean so that let's keep that in mind. Um, number two, it wasn't too long ago where our governing body here put a moratorum on any growth. We shut down development. We turn down development

when when it was knocking on our door. Whatever we do, we have got to grow. And we're not that big, so it's not like it's going to get crazy out of hand, but the town limits is very small and very defined. We have some land on the 301 quarter. We need to grow or every year we're going to squeeze the same elderly young renters, we're going to squeeze more blood out of them because we don't have enough rooftops. Uh I to be perfectly honest with you with with the point that precoid and we've forgotten that. I didn't even appreciate the fact that we reduced it and we never brought it back. You know, this budget, which I think we can all agree, sure, we can squeeze $800 out of it, but this budget is not new patrol cars. It's not any fluff. I mean, 13 just funds this budget. If we were going to be good stewards and responsible elected officials, I don't see how we really be honest with you. And and anybody can take a shot at me, but I don't see how we can do it for under 15 to be honest with you. Now 20 is is high and I think we had to set that so that we could negotiate and hear citizens comments but when you factor in all the factors uh because nobody nobody appreciates when we reduce it or we don't raise it but that's not the responsible thing to do. you know, they elect us to do to do what's right so that they don't have to come to every meeting or they can come to every meeting. Uh, and I think we need to think about in responsibility is hard a lot of times. And that's all I'll say. Thank you, Mr. Stewart. Any other comments? Go for it. Last one. All right. I just wanted to speak why I was coming from the place that I was coming

from. you know what I was going for with 10 is like 75% of the way there towards what was being proposed. Um and it goes back to some comments that I was hearing earlier and I just really want to acknowledge those things. We we came through co we had you know I forget who it was that said I wrote down everybody's comments I could look at but I don't want to spend all that extra time. 10 years ago Main Street did not look like it does right now. There's a lot of people that put a lot of effort, a lot of people that came in here, invested, and now we just had a reassessment, and now all of a sudden there's value in adding those pennies to the real estate tax. So now that suddenly those values are there. We're immediately talking about going and capitalizing on all those pennies. And it doesn't sit well with me. It doesn't sit well after hearing from everybody. And so I just wanted to find a way to approach that and a way to not tackle it from that angle. So, you know, what I'm saying is like we probably just need it more in the utility side. Like that stuff needs to be paid for. I I can't argue any of the funds, the increases on getting that. We we have the charts that show that we're lower than the surrounding areas. So, it's kind of not really going to work to not go in that direction. But, when it comes to real estate and all of these folks like like like like take me like I I I have a septic fee, okay? So, I'm not going to be hit by those fees the same way that others are. I will in the general fund. You tax me more on the real estate, I'll be paying higher there. But what about the people that are on neither? I don't know how many there really are. I I think most people in the town are on one or the other or both. But those people that don't have that direct investment in the infrastructure are going to be taxed for the infrastructure, similar to the people out of town. Um, and so I just have a lot of issue with that and that's why I was coming with the angle that I had. And pretty much I guess at this point I need to

leave it there because it's about time to to do the vote. Have we finished discussing everything? Miss Davis, I make a motion. Yes, ma'am. You're ready? Yes. Go for it. Okay. I've changed my mind. So now I Wait a minute. I'm sorry. Now the town attorney wants to interrupt. Just I'm trying to help on on the motion just for clarification. Um so there are advertised rates um for number of taxes, real estate, personal property, mobile homes, machinery and tools, vehicle license tax, solid um we're not doing solid waste collection uh meals tax. So the tax rates that were advertised. So you can do one motion. real estate or all of it. So I'm my suggestion is you can do all of them in one motion as advertised unless except if you want to change any of the advertised rates with 20 cents for real property to a lower number then that would be the exception. So the motion could be that council approve all advertised tax rates except for and then name the different rate for property. Then you can do it in one motion. Okay. I would like to make a motion for the tax rate to be 15 cents and the water sewage. We're not doing water. We're not doing that. And all other tax rates as advertised. Okay. Thank Say that please. And all other tax rates as advertised. You're making the motion. Well, you say it. You wanted to say it, so say it.

I'm asking for you to finish making the motion. I made a motion to raise the um real estate tax to 15 cents and everything else say as it is as as advertised. Thank you. We have a motion on the table. Is there a second? I'll second. I have a motion from Miss Davis, a second from Councilman Stor. Is there any discussion? Well, how does I mean we're we're going up two cents from what the budget outlined. How does how does that affect, right? How does that affect, you know, the budgeting and the process? I think $42,000. Yes. And it'll it'll go to that same line item that all the other real estate would as well. If you all and I think as the as we have the conversations around financial policies in the future, if you all want to begin to set parameters around um excess at the end of fiscal years going to certain funds, whether it's CIP for PO or or you know future plan CIP projects or for reserves, we need to have those conversations with um Davenport so that we can begin to set those parameters um now. And so that's something that we can work through. Any further discussion? I will take a roll call. Miss Davis, yes. Mr. Voy, nay. Mr. Webb, yes.

Mr. Dr. Chanel, no. Councilman Councilwoman Coyle, yes. Councilman Stor. Yes. Councilman Aman. Yes. Motion carries five to two. M madame mayor. Um in order to adopt tax rates, towns have to have a twothird vote. Twothirds of all council members. And I think that fails. Oh, okay. Well, motion fails. Did not know that. Thank you. Seven. We need u six yay. So at this point, is there another motion if that's not going to pass? Yeah, I'd like to make a motion that we set the real estate tax at the uh 0.13 level and all other taxes as advertised. I have a motion. Second and a second by Councilman Stor, motion by Dr. Chenalt. Is there any further discussion? I will once again take a roll call. Councilwoman Davis, yes. Councilman Voit, Councilman Web, yes. Councilman Chenalt, yes. Councilwoman Coyle, yes. Councilman Stor, yes. Councilman Hakeman, yes. Motion passes 6 to one. At this time, if there is no further business, which there is not, I

would ask for a motion to adjurnn. So moved. I have a motion. I'll second it. And a second. All in favor, raise your right hands. Thank you. Hey y'all.