Hancock County Council Budget, Efficiency and Revenue Committee and Council - Regular Meeting

or what? Okay, first thing we we have a new uh member uh Clark Smith. Morning. Morning team. And also, uh, Greg Geratas was subpoenaed for something at the state level and he can't be here today. So, uh, he's off the agenda, but some of his stuff will be on the agenda. Okay, good. And he will come to the council meeting next week and do his thing then. Uh, Mary no has asked to uh have uh election for president vice. So,

okay, we had uh we're doing um Groundhog Day and um to follow procedures as stated by code, we need to walk through the election of the officers of president and vice president again at the January meeting. So, I'm asking for nominations for president of the county council. Wait, just a second. Um, first you should do a motion to revoke the earlier vote that was done before. Okay, then I guess I need a motion to revoke the previous selection of officers. So moved. Second. All in favor?

Opposed? Carries. Now I would like to have a nomination for uh president. Well, I would like to say that it's a wonderful day. at beginning of the year and Mary gets to uh prove me right from last meeting that we shouldn't have voted. He loves that. Let the record reflect that objective. Having said that, right? I would like to nominate I would like to nominate Scott Wilbridge as our president and Robin Lauder as our vice president. Second. All seconded.

Can somebody will someone have to move the nominations be closed? I will move that the nominations be closed. I will second the motion. And all in favor? I opposed. So we have president of Scott Waridge and vice president. All yours, Jim. Okay. Thank God. Let's start off as usual by reviewing the balances, please. Got to keep you on.

I just now show the end of the year uh January 31st balances. Yes. I want to um Did you have some? Oh, they can't hear you talking. Mary, it sounds like I think you guys are sharing a microphone down there. Better. Is that Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you. I just want to maybe to help uh Clark a little bit explain as we go. We review these fund balances every month and that's part of our uh commitment to uh our standards to when we uh apply for a bond or different things that shows that we're staying the rating rating agencies the rating agency. That's why you'll see this every month and it'll be usually the month end prior. Sure. Right. Yeah. So that's what that's about.

But but it's also we we should be doing it even without the rating agencies. But yeah, because we are a cash uh kind of a accounting system as you know Clark. So

well appreciate that. There there's a little bit more here than the education and operations fund. So th this will uh represents the um end of the year balances. And the first one there is county general and you'll notice that it went up a little over 2 million. That's good. So we probably have the opportunity to maybe take some of that the uh balances or that balance and uh do some things with it and we can talk about that as we go through here. And u Geratoss is also working on that and next week he will have some re you know specific recommendations. One thing would be we we might want to move some to rainy day. We might want to move some to the health uh reserve, the self- insurance reserve. Um and maybe the sheriff's retirement program and maybe there's some other ideas too that people have. Uh the next one is 1112. That's the lit economic development and it's good and healthy. Uh just as an aside there, if you recall in the uh 2026 budget, we have about three million in there plus our normal uh dollars uh for um Gary Pool, his um road construction to finish um road construction in New uh to the three million in on a 8020 basis, but he says now they may do that and we'll know by the February meeting.

So that might be 8020 instead of 3 million total. 11:14 is the the lit uh for the library. Uh 11:22 Community Corrections Project Fund looks pretty healthy. Then the two um funds 11:35 bridge fund is healthy. 11:36 the capital fund is okay, although we drained it down a little bit, so it's not really a fund. Uh 1159 is the health fund. Looks good. 1161 is that first Indiana uh fund. And if you recall, we are currently um uh using some of that for one uh navigator in the jail. Don't know whether that'll continue or not, but we'll we can talk about that. 1170 public safety is good. Rainy day didn't change. And then the 1189 recorder perpetuation fund. And that's important to watch because we do pay for all of the people in the recorder's office with that fund. Anybody that has comments or questions? Page two. Oh, I just saw the 1207 the unsafe building fund that had come up during last year. There is money in there. Castle looks uh 1213 looks solvent. 1222 was the E 911. Uh this uh statewide I think that's the fee fund, not the um income tax fund.

And you notice it's really being drained. Uh the uh then the 12 33 uh lit corrections. That's the capital part of it is healthy. We're going to be using some of that for the addition. 1234 is the operating part of that uh let fund and you can see that's being drained. That's what uh Geratas was telling us. Uh we were probably going to have to add some money there. And so if you recall, we changed the um income tax by five basis points uh for the library. Two of those basis points went to the um E911 to bolster it. The three we really needed to change to but we uh changed it to lit economic development. So we may during the year have to take money out of lit economic development. to bolster this fund. And then the 1235 is the lit uh 911 fund and that's where we've added two basis points which um according to my calculation ought to add about 750,000 a year to that and you can see it's being drained down. 251 is the drug fund and it's drug court fund and it's solvent. And on page three then uh 259 is the behavioral court fund and it's solvent. Um then 4616 we get into the big tiff area. Um

then uh then we get to the bonds. The U 2021 bond the 4623. There's still significant proceeds in there. I understand that's committed though to something. Then two more TIF areas. The 4624 is the west tiff area which is the next big tiff area next to the our largest one. and it's um building up. And then 4629 is the um 2022 E911 geo bond. 4631 is the 2022 GEO bond. Pretty significant amount of money still in that, but I understand that's committed also. And then there's the um oh there are three small tiffs 46 34 35 and 36 and then the last one is 4700 the self insurance the library liability insurance and we that's another one we may want to shore up with some balance coming out of the um um

I think so too. Yeah, monies. We should mention that. Uh Jim, if you'll recall, the stop loss is like 910,000. I think uh so if we had that short up to that, boy, we'd be covered. So you may need another 500 in it probably. Talked yesterday. Yeah, might be good, especially as we go into renewal. Okay. And I think Greg was going to make that recommendation next week, so we can

should be able to do that. Uh page four, the uh 4908, the EDA payments money's coming in there. And then the 5901 5902 5901 is the health claims and then the health claims reserve. Um there we we have said that we will at the end of the year take any balance that we have in the um uh claims fund and move it over to the reserve fund. So, um, we may want to do that. I mean, I know it's a small amount of money, but still just, uh, to, um,

little bit do what we said. We'll add that up. So, do you want if we want to do that, we could, I think, do that. You want to make a motion? Are you talking about the 49,000 to the Oh, million. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Just move. I don't know how things cash flow out of 5901. I would probably just leave it, Jim. I would probably just leave that 49,000. That money is going to be spent pretty quick here. Yeah, we we pay our claims out of that for any insurance claims that come in that might have been a December claim that they'll have to pay in January, I'm assuming.

Well, well, there's money in there now, isn't there? You shifted money in 9,000 Pardon me. 49,000. No, I mean into the health claim claims fund. Haven't you moved money in for 2026 from the 2026 budget? Okay. But we did take that 500,000 out. Correct. Right. Right. Because we needed it and put it in the other fund. Cuz does the does does the the receipts of the health claims fund do those hit the deposits hit after paychecks after each pay cycle? No, they hit once usually once a month but

we started taking a majority out of county general at the beginning of the year. So we one large sweep out of all of the accounts that we legally could. Um the rest of them as far as grants, that type of things had to do those monthly. Yeah. But there's a possibility of needing to pay a claim before there are more deposits to 5901. You just really never know when they're going to come in and then they would move if it if it was over the 492, then they would just move from the reserve fund.

Where is it? Well, I think weren't we moving everything all at once into that fund from the commissioner's line item as well as all of the other depart department. We're not as much as we're not doing that monthly. I mean, we're moving the whole Yeah. the grants. When are you going to do that? After we roll the budget. We're still reviewing the budget. The 1782 notice. You saw that. There was a discrepancy. So, we're still working on getting that short up and as soon as we get here, we'll send it out to everybody. Okay, that should be done later. So, you may have to use the reserve fund for a minute.

I I think we should immediately move a half a million into the make that a million. It's close to a million. I think it's less than half million. Yeah. Mhm. Well, that will be I think on the agenda at the council meeting to do that. Yeah. Super. If everybody wants to do that. Yep. Okay. All righty.

Well, and just to note there, our la our target balance as we created last year was to keep Oh, we do have a million. I'm sorry. I was say our target is a million and a half. Is that still enough? What's our stop loss on that? Um, it all depends. I think Scott, help me out here. Uh, it goes up to like 150,000 a stop loss per occurrence. Now, don't quote me on this. I'm just trying to go back in my thought process. I figure when we picked 1.5 million, we had a reason, but I didn't know if that amount has changed of what we shouldn't be keeping in there.

No. No. And then um if it goes above that, they go to a laser. So, okay. But having a million and a half dollars in there probably wouldn't hurt us at all. Yeah, that's our target. So, yeah. So, we'll we'll do that. Uh page five 2011's food and beverage and it's stroking along

7304 I I found interesting tourism um back when we started tourism they were getting a couple hundred thousand a year but it's they're approaching a million dollars in receipts so it's becoming significant Okay. The rest of that page are grants. And on the last page six, um, there really wasn't anything I saw except the, you know, the usual CARES Act, health department, which I still don't know what we can, what they can spend that for, and the um, ARPA, which is almost drained.

ARP is correct. It is drained, right? It's all committed, I believe. Yeah, that's spoken. Good. Yeah, that would be the jail navigators are being paid out there now and we have no more ARPA money that I mean it's earmarked. So once that's gone, that's another thing that you'll want to put on your radar. How many male jailers are coming out of that? Two. That's Yeah, I think we're talking about that today. Two. Yep. Okay. Any comment or questions? cash balances.

The just generally speaking, um, everybody did a good job and they came out pretty good. Enjoy it when SB1 comes. Big difference. I thought we were going to have a positive meeting. I did. Enjoy it this year because in years to come, it's not going to be that way. Let's stick positive that there will be a SB1.2 or 2.0, No, whichever it is that Greg calls it. We did have breakfast with Governor Braun and kind, you know, really kind of laid out how it was going to affect at the county level and he did say there this was a year to tweak it. So,

sorry. Uh, so can't this is that's all that's in there right now. Pent, I'm I'm I'm glad you didn't say anything about the uh the u balances. Uh I was talking to Geratoss and when he saw those numbers, he said, "I'm going to take a lot of from Kent." Yeah, we talked last night and he mentioned that. Well, great. If you heard the term pennies from heaven,

that came from about 10 years ago, me complaining that we had too many balances at the end of the year. and we were pinching things at the end of the year not to pay or not to do or we were doing this and doing that and then lo and behold January 1 comes and oh we have a million extra dollars and so I was complaining to him that we've got to get tighter on that we can't be cutting programs and then have all this money at the end of the year just from being too conservative. Well, it may not be extra dollars, but it's above forecast,

right? Above forecast. We had the same problem at the school. We cut eight people one year at the school, and it was a horrible deal for us and everything. And then after the first year, the state come up and give us $200 million extra money for all the schools in Indiana. And it was like, if you would have told us two months ago, we wouldn't had to lay people off. And so I'm sensitive about because now we do have some above forecast money but uh and I'm not for putting it in rainy day because to me rainy day has been the same ever since I've been here. I've been here a long time and we'll never use it. So I'm for putting it in liabilities and and other things.

You say we hope but we went through a pandemic and didn't use it. So unless somebody drops a nuclear bomb on on Indiana, we ain't never using a rainy day. Well, don't use it. Now, now some of us are older than others. Right on that. We we did have a time where we were living off of rainy day in 20 2009 2010. We were living off of rainy day. But we built is going to sit there until we have another huge recession. Then mortgage collapse. That was after the mortgage collapse. Yes. It was awful. when income taxes drop by 25%. Yes. Then SP1 may do it. You you start choking.

Uh number two, uh the minimum target balances. I was going to wait for Greg, but if anybody looked at that and has any comments, go ahead. I know in the past the target on the general fund was correlated to 90 days uh worth of operating expenses. So I'll wait for for Greg, but we might I don't know if we want to bump that a little. I don't know if 90 days was a number we picked or

if any more days um as the budget goes up would be a more appropriate number. And I don't know, we can ask Greg when we when we picked rainy day 7 million. I'm not sure what that where the 7 million came from. It's less than 90 days of operating. So, we can ask him about all that. Yeah, I kind of forget

those the general fund and rainy day in particular. We've had those targets at those targets for many years now. And so, I'll be interested to see if Gregation and our budget going up if we should bump those up a little bit. And you get into a discussion of what is the budget? Um the fund budget is 30 million. The total budget is 96 million. Right. So what number? Right. And stuff like that. Yeah. Because right that 8 million wouldn't last very long if we got into a financial issue. We can go through that unfortunately pretty quickly. Yeah. Just payroll and things.

Health. Well, what what is a payroll per per pay period? Just had our first one usually after you account for FICA and everything. We talked about it when we did the thousand 800 some thousand. So yes, it $900,000. So that wouldn't get us through very many payrolls and and then electric bill that's for sure. You got people being paid out of grants too that don't show up on that, you know. Yeah, that's above my pay grade anyway to figure that out. So,

and then self insurance 4700. We talked about that. We'll we'll talk to Greg about it. But we were saying the stop loss is 910. So, we should probably add 500 of that when Greg comes around. We'll talk to that'll look really good to our underwriters, too, when we go back. The target should be That's what I right. I think the target should be or the this resolution should be above if 900,000 is our stop loss then above the cap you know then it shouldn't say 500,000. Yeah. Last year we started

Tim had a couple of other ideas too where maybe some um monies could be that would be helpful. You want to throw them out? Well, he we spoke of uh uh sheriff's pension fund. Oh, yeah. Shoring that up a little bit. We talked about that this morning. And that was other than these two. I think for the oak of

we did that last year. We threw a million when our as Kent mentioned the balances were healthier than forecasted and we put a million in to try to get the pension better funded. And I'd like to know if Greg recommends that again. I'd be very favorable to keep moving that pension towards full funding, but the sheriff recommends it and that does decrease in future years theoretically. You know, every year we have to make a deposit to the pension. We have that minimum amount, the recommended amount and the above, you know, above recommended amount. And in theory, the closer we get to 100% funded, that annual expense will go down, right?

Yep. Um, next item is the five-year capital improvement plan. Uh, that's the commissioner's work on that. I understand that for uh 26 um the request is at least for a million dollars for windows for the uh courthouse. So, and in addition to that, we've got the A association request for a million and a quarter

in here. Uh we've got the sheriff's cars that we usually take out of it for about 800,000. And then the uh commitment we have on the radios that's I forget whether that's 800,000 or 400,000 a year but it's significant. I thought it was the higher 800 that was close to 900,000 at one time. So just thinking about all that it, you know, pretty obvious that we probably will want to have a 2026 GO bond and if that is the case, the probably the sooner we get after it, the better.

So commission, what would you say was the windows? Did you have a ballpark on the windows? 1 point something. 1 point something. Yeah, it 1.1 1.2 I think is what it was because originally it was like two 2 point something for both the windows and the tuck bony. Okay. Uh it is that an actual quote that you've gotten actually the the two point was it 2.3 I can't recall. Yeah, it was an actual quote but then we couldn't do it all. So we actually went to the tug pointing alone. We figured we'd tackle the windows next year. So, and it's about 1.1 1.2 what it's going to cost.

That really is a a death. Actually, I'm kind of shocked it isn't more than that. We if they want to give it to us for that, we'll take it. Yeah. Yeah. Jim spent 900,000 just doing his house.

Is that all the windows? Yes. So, it but I mean we definitely need them. It's I mean it's it's an old building. Okay. Well, we probably need we'll get Greg going on um u whatever the paperwork is for the I think commissioners have to probably initiate that. So, yeah, I'd like to ask the commissioner something too. I noticed I was going over the capital plan and uh capital improvement plan and um it said somewhere on here. Yeah, I have it underlined that you were decommissioning some buildings. What exactly is that? And

which ones? Go ahead. It's It's not necessarily decommissioning. We It was just It was It was It was a thought to see what we could do. And originally they were talking about the memorial building. Yeah, I know there was a real problem with selling that, but Well, yeah, we we can't sell it. No, we really don't own it really. It doesn't it have to go to It has to go back to Greenfield Banking. I don't think so. Oh, is it Greenfield Banking? Yeah, it when it no longer becomes a memorial building, if we move the actual Veterans Affairs out of there, it's no longer memorial building. It goes back to Greenfield Banking. I know at one time it had to go to somebody that was doing things for veterans. Yeah, that's the memorial building. That's that's why they g they Greenfield Banking

gave it to the veterans to become the the veterans services. That's way back. Yeah. And when we we did I remember that. Why do you want to say that when we were doing remember that? Uh we we do have to spend some money on it because uh they they've done inspections and it it needs some help. It really does. Yes. Well, that that geo bond is going to have to be a 6,000 six million dollar bond then, right? Because you're going to have some other things.

Oh, yeah. Well, there'll be other things. I mean, that we got a lot of buildings. We can't abandon the uh memorial building unless we do something uh to uh rehouse the ghost that lives in the basement. Keep that in mind. some artifacts from down there. Yeah, we we just uh gave the some artifacts to the historical society yesterday that they found down there.

And so it was it was really nice that they could actually uh kind of house that for us. And I mean it was it was nice to see somebody's still looking out for the historical society. But yeah, we've uh we've got money to spend or we will have to have money to spend on the memorial building because just to paint it and stuff like that. We've had people offer to paint it. The the kids play is the one the people do the kids play. They wanted to paint it, but they can't. We've got to have a professional go in and do that. So, there's some plumbing that needs to be done into it. So, so they're still using it. Yes. To the kids play. Okay. And I think the park park on Greenfield still have their fatherdaughter dance there and they've got some other things that happen there.

Yeah. Plays basketball there. Yeah. They they have offices in there though for Yeah. the veterans and all them. Yeah, you'd have to relocate all those people. Yeah, I played pickle ball in there. Yeah, there's Okay. Anything else on the capital plan and the bond? Next on the agenda is the prosecutor efficiency study. And I was thinking one of the commissioners asked for that to be on here, although was I couldn't remember who. So, probably Bill. Pardon me. Billy Bill. Was it probably Bill? Probably was Brent. You're not Bill. You're Brent. Yes, sir.

Good. Help you. How's it going? Well, if we could get some electricity in the child support division, that'd be real dandy. That'd help us out a lot. We're trying to get there, but otherwise, things are rolling along. But on the study, have you been engaged with He has to have money for it first. I believe we approved. We approved. I don't know that it was. I don't know that it was approved. I don't think it was. We didn't approve money any money. We we didn't appropriate it. We approved I think on on in principle and asked him to come to the commissioners for their input. And he did.

He did. So, you're approving it and sending it back to us for send it to you with recommendation and we've been working we've got Brent sent me information for an RFQ put that in place but we were waiting formal approval. Brent has already provided me with I think when we discussed that here the first time Devon Mary correct me if I'm wrong. I thought we asked, you know, what do we expect ballpark this to cost? I don't know uh exactly word for word what was said, but I thought we discussed an up to not to exceed. We'd have to look back at the minutes off hand. I don't remember.

60 I think. Tell me just briefly what this money that's. That's what I remember. Yeah. Yes.

I'm trying to make sure I keep track of all the questions at the same time. The answer to your question is is that I was seeking financing for an efficiency study of the prosecutor's office and the justice system. Um we always want to make sure we're as efficient as we can be. I know that we're growing rapidly and it's important that we get as much utility out of everything that we possibly have as we can and that you know it's something that of great interest to a lot of people in the community. And so that's what this was. That's why I brought it to you. And if there's ever ways we can find to make things, you know, better or more effective, we always want to do that. and justice system. So besides your office, are there other offices?

Well, it's going to depend upon what degree toever the vendor would be. But by virtue of everything runs through our office and so we get all the reports from all the law enforcement. We also work with probation. We also work with courts, community corrections, etc. And so anything that really kind of does a deep dive of what we do by necess is necessarily going to open windows everywhere else. We're the hub where everything interacts. And so if you see everything is happening with us, you're going to see everything's happening everywhere else at the same time. So did you give us an estimate of what this would cost last time? I was thinking you did. I think that we talked about roughly six. Yeah, that's what I remember.

That's what I recall. My days or so. have somebody come in and really see possibly find ways to um I mean ultimately you know there's been a lot of talk and I know at state level you know and here staffing is something that's important and maybe we can find ways other ways to be more efficient. It's always about trying to find ways to do things better and faster and more efficiently.

Okay, that that's all fine and dandy but I think it's a waste of money. Um, I won't be blunt. I mean, I'll be blunt about it. Um, if it was truly something we need, then we should have the two judges or three judges up here saying we need to overamp the whole system. Um, you know, I've I've been here long enough to know when I see smoke green when I see it. I I'm not excited about giving more money for to find out if the prosecutor's office is doing their job. Um, I would hope Brent that you could be able to do that to see if the prosecutor's office is doing their job and the judges see if they're doing their job. But I mean, I'm only one vote on the thing, but I just think it's a

Well, Brent would be if he even if Brent thought there was an inefficiency in one of those integrated offices that's not his, he would be out of turn to suggest that another elected official improve their efficiency. I would think there would be communication between those two offices though. It wouldn't be that he would be telling them what to do. It would conversation about improvement.

It it'll it'll overlap in into the other um I think into the other departments and uh we are an efficiency committee and h how do we implement efficiency if we don't do some studying? I guess I'm more about who who is doing it? What's their background and where? We haven't hired anybody yet. When you got a number from somewhere,

Mary, whenever we did the fire study with Greenfield, we picked somebody that was not associated with the fire department, somebody that actually had fire a former fire chief that actually did these studies. And that is the best way to do it. Find somebody that's not attached to the office. You get a better study. Well, I would I would say yes to that. But also, I just recall when I was still upstairs, um there was a decision made to do a study of all of our county and it was a waste of time and a waste of money. Robin was probably here when

that's very true. And nothing at all came from it because what works in government is real different than works in corporate world or business world because of way we have to follow things and we got nothing back from that study at all. It was just money spent and money gone. I'll just say that about who was hired to do it at that time. That's why I'd be very and specific or I would want to say Yes. Um I would want to know what your expectations are in writing to see

Scott. We can get that through an RFP, can't we? That's what I thought you'd do. Provide the information. The RFP or the RFQ. Yeah, really an RFQ would be specific enough that those questions should be RFQ not for qualifications back from the RFQE which the commissioner said is I think the study that they did with us the problem was that people had no idea how our offices work I think it's important like he said is to have somebody separate but make sure it's somebody that knows what they're doing, you know, that comes with really good recommendations. Not worth the money. Yeah. And that's why

I guess the thing I I would say is this is that everyone here knows that our county is growing very rapidly. Um, you know, we're the first or second fastest growing county in the state of Indiana. Our population has increased significantly. Um, everyone knows all of our law enforcement agencies, um, the rosters of those agencies have increased significantly in the last 10 years. Everyone here knows that over the last two or three years, you know, based upon the recommendations from the prosecute attorneys council, I've made repeated requests for staffing um to meet the levels that prosecuting attorneys council has said is appropriate for our office. There have been some efforts there, but we're not where they say we should be. And so, this is a contentious subject. It's one that is going to be very important for the future of this county as we grow. Public safety and our ability to have a community that is a good place to live, work, and raise a family is the first priority for everybody. And that begins with public safety. And public safety begins at the prosecutor's office. And so, you know, it seemed to me that, you know, having run the football up the hill a few times, it would be a good idea to maybe to have an independent body look at things that's not the prosecute attorney's council and they can make, you know, they can do a deep dive. They can make those recommendations. I will be as transparent as poss. And then we'll see, you know, what can be done so that we are prepared for, you know, the next 10, 15, 20 years. always concerns me with public safety is by the time you realize that you need more people, it's often too late,

and then you begin to have a deterioration of public safety. Who is the organization that's saying that you're short in all that? Indiana Proing Attorney's Council um over a number of years. I know Scott's kind of shaking his head. Is I is that is that like a union or something or what? We don't have unions. Okay. I mean, I just remember when when before that they advertised across the state that Greenfield was 14 firemen short and come to find out after we did our study, we were only two firemen short. Well, I don't know anything about firemen. Okay. But at the same time, I just I'd like to know that it's reputable.

You know what I do know is is that the Indiana Pro attorneys Council, which is a professional organization representing all prosecutors across the state of Indiana, commissioned to study three years ago. And during the course of that, they looked at every single county in the state of Indiana. And you know, I guess it was two or three years ago, I provided a summary of those things, you know, to people on the council and people on the commissioners. And we've made some progress in support of those things. Now, you know, but we're not where they say where they say we should be. Um, you know, the prosecuting attorneys council has made efforts at the state level and appealed to, you know, to the governor to the legislature for funding. It's one of our big issues. It was two sessions ago. It was last session is again this session. And so this is, you know, a very real kind of c it's a real crisis across the state. I mean, and a lot of people in a lot of offices are even in worse shape than what we are and their ability to attract and retain the type of high caliber talent in the numbers needed to maintain the line so our communities can be good places to live. And so, no, it's not a union.

Okay. Um, it's just the organization much like the judges have their organization. Brent, will this study address uh mainly your staffing or will it also address ways to actually run your office, change things and that kind of thing? Will they do that also? That would be my expectation. That would be mine, too.

That would be my expectation. I mean, I'd want to have someone, the ideal person to do this kind of work would be somebody that's familiar with prosecutor's offices, you know, here and around the country and seen other practices and other ways things work. There's, you know, not a monopoly on good ideas here in Hank County. And so if there's, you know, ideas elsewhere that have proven to be very effective that, you know, our situation and our level of growth in our office would be appropriate. Well, that'd be wonderful. I'd love to know more about it. Are you aware of uh what firms across the country that kind of service? Because when we do the RFQ, I'm just wondering what we might be.

There's a number of Okay. You go to conferences, you see people For me, for for me, I'm on the fence. It's I don't think, and this is why I wanted to go to commissioners, too, is I want to hear their input because to me, I don't I don't think any most of us up here think that we need to spend $60,000 of the people's money to find out what we already know, which is yes, we there there needs to be more staffing a prosecutor's office like there needs to be more staffing at so many of our departments in county government. And so that that's not the intent. I think the intent I would like to see if I would vote in favor of it is how can you be more efficient? Are you are you doing the job efficiently as a prosecutor? Is your chief doing it the job efficiently? Is all your prosecutors and everybody doing their job efficiently?

You know, I mean I hear that you know the fire department from Gary how it went from 11 needed to two and maybe we'll find out you actually need less people. I don't know. But I don't know. Yeah.

But I mean I I know you need more people. That's not something any of us are gonna disagree with. you could all everybody could use more people. Um I like especially if you're if you're busy and things keep you know increasing. Um but I also want to know like if we're going to do efficiency I would want to hear also about all the other you know the judiciary and other other areas. If we're going to look at the prosecutor's office why not look at what about the public defenders office? What about the judiciary? I know they're going to switch things when the judges probably switch next year but I mean those are the things that I would want to include it also. When we talked about this before, we said we did want it to go beyond the prosecutor's office because it is all intertwined. So,

but don't but you've got to start some place. Well, don't you think do in it's not in my opinion it it's not right taking a efficiency study and then calling up the judge and say, "Hey, we're going to we're going to force this upon you now." You know what I mean? I mean, you you weren't involved in the in initial talks, but we want this to creep into your stuff, too, without their without their opinion. That's the thing. I don't think you can do anything with the judges. they they've got their own organization. You can't you can't instruct them to do anything. Yeah. You should be involved with preparing information we're expecting back.

You can't do a study uh I don't think of the whole system. We tried that about 15 years ago. We met like monthly with all the system uh inputs uh for uh for that whole year. and and we did find out a lot of stuff that we didn't know. And the only way to find out what you don't know is to study it. Somebody wants to lead that study. Great. But I don't want to again. Well, I think and you got to start someplace and take it in blocks.

I think that's what the purpose it's me if I'm wrong, but of an RFQ process. You put in your Nissan model, your Cadillac, and your limousine model. You get the RFQS back. And then if one's 50, one's 55, and one's 60, maybe you go with the 60. If one's 60, one's 100, and one's 200, then maybe you go with the 60. So I I mean, I'm kind of the new guy here, but it seems like a lot of the questions could be answered if we go through the RFQ process. And that's where I think I would lean on Brent to say, "Hey, based on the people who the companies who submitted through the RFQ process, his expertise would say, here's who I recommend to you all to go with." Then that doesn't mean we have to, but I would lean on that expertise and then we go from there. But that's just my two cents. I

mean, really, the goal here would be not just like necessarily like I'm not thinking about just today, okay? Is that our county is going to have 100,000 people here before too long. We're going to have 125,000 people during very possibly during my working life and I think it would be really well it would be a really good idea for us to get a road map on these things now while we're at the kind of the waves kind of coming in and and instead of trying to do it later when we're drowning. Will you provide you or and

uh scope of what we're looking for because again I can't said that we we know that there's a shortage. So, without that being part of what we're looking for primarily, what other problems or corrections or suggestions could be made through the overall workflow of that office?

Well, I I hope I guess to answer your question as directly as I can, I would hopeful that anybody doing, you know, a study would communicate with all of the people we're working with to see how we interact. And so, you know, I I would assume the judges will talk to him, but I suppose have to. I mean, I'm not in a position, you know, I would assume that they would and I would assume everybody would approach it in good faith and then when we're done, maybe all of us will have a better picture, you know, for a rough road map of where we need to go in the next 10. Are they aware that you I've not had any specific conversations with the judges about something that would come up in regular.

So I think the commissioners are asking us uh if we uh want to uh fund uh this recommendation or not. I just have a comment if I could. Jim directed to to Brent. Brent, you know, we're working on um uh a kind of a strategic plan for a criminal justice center. Do you think it would be I've taken two steps back. Do you think it'd be worth waiting until those plans were laid to see what might be needed between the prosecutors, sheriff's office, and everything? Um

I want to make sure I understand your question. We are in the midst of working out a plan, a strategic plan on a criminal justice center which would include you, the judges, the court, criminal courts, sheriff's office. Um, all except civil. Yeah. And then would it be worth us to take a step back and wait until that strategic plan was kind of put into place to see if that would be best served for all parties involved. It's just a question. Just a question. Honestly, I don't really think so. I think you need to have more. The more information you have, better plan you have.

Okay. Um, I'm always a big proponent, you know, whenever we're going to pass something we got to do or have a case, we're going to have or file or not file, getting as much information as we can possibly get before we we I would say that would be the case here. Okay. You know, so let's we don't have enough information. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. We need to see those even even if the even if the council says yes, this is something we want to go after. You you you can't vote on something you don't know what the dollar amount is. You can't vote on something you don't know what the scope of the project is. You can't vote on something that know what what if it's going to achieve what you think it's going to achieve or not. Well, speak to the commissioners. They're the ones that are asking.

No, I mean, it's just we just don't know if it's 60 or 160. And we don't know what if the scope is he, you know, Scott said it would be nice if it included this. Robin said it'd be nice if it included this. Mary said it'd be nice if included this, but we don't know if it includes that or not or even if you can find somebody to do that. But you're not going to know that until Scott runs an RFQ. RFQ. I'm RFQ. Well, appreciate what Janine said about maybe a little ahead of it. I did not know that you guys are working on this plan, a justice system plan, and it may be best to wait a little bit to see what comes from.

The system is not the system going to change. We just put out an RFQ for that for landscaping for landscape and landscape of the farm. It's just not plants of the farm. And so we'll be waiting. I don't I don't recall the close of of business for that, but Deb, we do u put it out on I think on Bid Prime,

but but I don't think that would change the operation of the justice system. We're going to change the buildings, but we're talking here about the system itself. But it it could realistically in in the logistics and and I I'm not saying I'm right, but logistically it could uh eliminate a lot of things just having everyone together in a criminal justice center. And it could mean new software. I don't know what the courts and the prosecutors do. I don't even pretend to know. But you know, will there be upgrades in all of their processes? I don't know. That's questions I'm asking. I think that back when Brent presented this to us, I think we had information in front of us that maybe you do not have. Didn't we have like a three-page?

I truly don't recall it was that I thought we had some information and that's why we we thought it may be a good idea. So, it may be appropriate just email the council that information and uh uh that you had sent to us. I'm pretty confident it was like a three-pager. Well, the other check my email done is I'm sure it was Brent. We could as Brent and I, we could draft an RQ and then you guys could review the RAQ, make sure you think it covers what you want to see. Yeah. Well, I think before

before we advertise it. That's now we don't typically do that. But if that's what you want, I don't think Brent I don't want to speak. I think that's a great idea. I mean, at the end of the day, here's the bottom line is that the justice system looks way different now than it did 10 years ago. Um, and it's going to look way it's going to look, you know, substantially different 10 years from now than it does now. Um, you know, we're able to keep our head above water now. I think it would be, you know, a very good thing if we spent the time to diligently look at those things so that we can plan for the upcoming decade and more.

Well, I think our attorney's right. I think it would help all of us to make a decision if we got to see the RFP before you sent them out. Don't you? Are are the commissioners willing to proceed that far? Yes. Right. Let's do that. Let's do that. We'll we'll finalize what we do because I have info and then you can distribute it. Brent council and the commissioners. All right. I will absolutely I will wait to hear back from you that we have something that is agreeable as official. Upon doing so, I can email it out.

What I'm going Yeah. What I'll do is I'm going to be looking at the format primarily. the substance of it will be coming from you. Now, you've kind of heard a few things here to maybe incorporate in your what you'd like to see in the art. Yeah. From what I sent you back in December today, I'm okay with sending that to everybody and if they want to change. Okay. I mean, so I don't see Okay. President. Okay. I mean again if there's changes they want to make probably okay. I don't. So will you work that out? Yes. Okay. I have my

Okay. Okay. Thank you Brent. Thank you. Thank you. Happy new year everybody. You too. Thank you. Same deal. He's moving. Uh Bernie to pay it from the RFQ. Note of this morning. Good morning. Um, yeah. Yeah. Why am I here? You want money? Probably. You want more money. You either want money or you either want money or an employee. I mean, one of the two. I think it's money today. Yes. We're getting messages. We're getting messages that we have really bad interference. So, if we can move our cell phones away. My phone's over here.

Airplane mode. That'd be great. Guys, might just be a good idea to to put in airplane mode when you come in. said to move your phones away from the microphone. But anyway, um we had a a requirement to hire a new person for for dealing with these meetings. We had we have a media technologist, Dusty Wickers, our new employee.

Um he's making sure that all the recordings get get done correctly and we're streaming is done correctly and that type of things. And he'll be working with the courts too on their their media stuff, too. So we we we agreed last at the end of the year to to hire him and we we'd find a way to pay for it. It's starting at the beginning in a year. So that's why I'm here. So So I need money. How much money? Perfectly clear. 50 60,000 60,000 60. So it wasn't in your 26 budget in 25, right? We since did approve it. We approved it.

We we did we approved at the end of the year of him hiring somebody to take care of the but probably not where the money comes from. But we didn't have didn't know where we told him out the first year to come back to us and we'd find out where the money came from. That's exactly right. You said you'd fill the position 2026 and you would let him know where you're going to decide to pay it from. And do do you still have another position open? Yes. And it'll be filled by this end of this quarter. So I'll be stability. This is the media guy we just discussed media. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, auditor, what do we need to do? Ironically, it's go ahead and appropriate money for and we'll have to do a salary um salary ordinance amendment balances,

right? He's not. I say my feeling is do we need to vote today? It's going to stay. Yes. If you could because he's on the clock payroll. I I would I would suggest that we pay for it out of county general. This is going to need to be in the county general budget and I think we should just pay it there. Right. Right. Second. That was a motion formalized. I second her motion. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Moved and seconded that we approve uh whatever that money was for Bernie's media guy. All in favor say I. I. I. Oppos. Congratulations. You're going to get a That was that was easy. He's not here. No, you're only on for one.

I'm here. I'm anything right now. I'm just I'm going to let I've let the count or the commissioners know um there's been 177% increase in in memory. What that translates to is all all uh computer products are going to go probably three times as much. So, I'm probably going to run short this year. I'm not sure how much it's going to be yet because they haven't started buying yet. So, Mhm. U but, uh, there will be an increase in in all in all hardware. So, you got a ballpark. What's that? You got a ballpark? No, I don't. Now, at this point, I I'm probably going to be probably 25 to 30% short of what what I really need. So, but I'm not sure. I I haven't even started purchasing yet. Of what number?

Um, I I think my purchasing this year is 120,000 for hardware. So, it's going to be significantly more than that. So, Okay. Okay. And is that recurring annual? It it's as we need it. It changes yearly how much we need to purchase. So is there goes down this question though. Is there any was Windows 10 is dying? Yeah. Wind 10's dead basically is dead. I mean we're pretty much

we're going to have to maybe do another geo bond this year. Is there is there any equipment that that has to be upgraded that that we would get done? this year, but not but next year we're going to have to to uh change out our our our servers. Next year, our servers and our and our main storage is going to have to be upgraded in 2027. 2027. Well, I mean, not well, which might mean you want to put it in a 26 month we if we know we have to do it. Um, exactly. That might be another thing that we have. Well, I've got a I've got a quote for the storage, but that's it's old now. It's it's the servers servers are a lot cheaper than storage.

Okay. I probably just I think uh when I updated these I think we spent uh 95,000. It's probably go up to 120,000 probably for that. All right. Well, I was worried about us having half a million or a million. Not for servers, but now it's for storage is maybe 250 to 300,000. Well, Bernie, get get us some numbers at least. I'll do that. Okay. Do you have any idea what servers may cost? Just a ballpark. And you may have just said that. No, don't. This is really a rough ballpark. Probably about 120,000. Oh,

server is not going to be, like I said, that the servers are pretty easy to deal except the memory part of it. Now, I've got to see what that's going to cost because of the increase. Now, I have to get that. So, the actual servers themselves is pretty reasonable, but the memory part is going to go away. You're still talking about $400,000 probably. Probably. Yeah. But I'll get I'll get some real figures and get it back to you. Okay. Thanks, Bernie. Thanks, Bernie. Thank you. Um, under old business, we did get our 1782 notice and we have to respond by next Wednesday.

We'll need to make sure that we fully understand it and accept it and we'll have to get the president's signature on the 14th so we get that in time. Well, I looked at there are two items of significance on there for for once. A lot of times we don't have much uh difference with the DLGF, but we have two significant differences and I think they're both having to do with the transportation department. I think if I recall um I well the 250 for the highway was decreased. They decreased his budget and then they changed the rate is what I had looked at. So I would can I have a message to Greg

for us to go over that as well? But so that's we're still working on it there. Usually it comes back and all's good and we get what we've asked for and we sign it and move on. So there'll probably be some discussion that you'll want to have before we send that back to DGS. Did we not get the excess levy? I had not heard about it. I saw where Vern Township got theirs. That's the one of the questions that I have because it's got a zero there, but then they did change one of the the levy rates. So did you see that, Jim? Well, one of them is a bond and the other one is the uh just the highway budget.

Well, it was on page I was on the I don't know what it was. I have because I I did see that there was a rate that changed, but it wasn't did wasn't a bond. There's a number. That's the question I have for Greg that I want you to hear back on. Well, the highway is off about 4 million and the bond is off about 600,000. Well, Mary no asked about the max levy appeal. Do you know anything about the appeal?

Um, not for sure. Greg's attitude was that since we've got to 1782, they have to have decided on our excess levy appeal. But he had not gotten any notice of it. We haven't gotten any notice of it. He said they are just so far behind at the state level that he's not surprised. But he thinks his guess is that we got at least some of the appeal

and that might be the rate that I saw increase on that levy. So I I just have a question. So, I can't I'm really not in a position to comment on right now, but we're talking to him and we're going to be sending it out to everybody. So, we're going to decide on this next Wednesday thing. Yeah. And then Greg will probably have discussion or he'll probably talk to you or email you in between now and then would be my guess. Deb, I have a question for you. Um, when I was auditor, we never got excess levy, so I don't know that much that much about it, but do they typically send it with a 1782? I thought they did. I think last year we got it before we got the 1782. The notification that we were going to be receiving it,

but and this is that would have been my first time as well, so I don't have it committed to memory. You mean the excess levy problem? Uh, you're talking about the excess levy. Well, Greg said they have to have decided that before they sent the 1782, but their notice of it Yeah. When did they is maybe in the mail or maybe it's sitting on somebody's desk and they haven't sent it out yet in here. Something like that. Right. Right. Right.

Okay. Um so let's go on to the uh health investments. Is it Amanda here? I haven't seen Amanda or anyone from You could do your sheriff. You could do the sheriff and see if she comes. Yeah. Sheriff, do you want to get into your part of it then? First,

what what we're trying to do here is to, as you know, uh three years ago, we started uh a mental health initiative where we um used well, we'd come up with a strategic plan for a mental health. Then suddenly we got into COVID. Suddenly we had ARP money and we appropriated six million from the 15 million of ARP money for mental health initiative and we broke that up as it turned out to be some of it went for navigation and clinicians in the jail. Some of it went for uh uh navigation outside of the jail run by the hospital. And the third part of that was um a uh mobile uh mental health uh um team uh that was run first of all by community health and now it's run by uh Hancock regional. those three things. So to do here is identify how much currently uh well identify the programs first of all that we currently are running and then try and put a number on those aspects of it for a potential 2027 budget item to continue. you know, if we want to continue these programs, here will be the number. So, that's what we're trying to do here.

Those numbers would be in his

should should be and or if he wants to change something maybe. Mhm. And Amanda is supposed to be here from the hospital to do the same thing on their part. Have a little bit of technical difficulty. Just a second, guys. Oh, and we just approved your pay. Yeah, appreciate programs, but I don't we can maintain. This is when you ask for a raise in the corner. Is it is it expanding? We only get the product if you get the product.

You minimize it. After 10 years, it's like it's not even showing the whole screen, right? Needs to be minimized. After 10 years after trying to take his Oh my word. If I do all else fails, log out of retrying uniform just like the state house does. I just Oh, so you're in session. Yeah, you just address the way you do

captain in a suit. So

he's got to be in a suit for work. So Oh. Oh, okay. So you could but once work's done work you got to dress for the job more respect. They'd be like making Yes. Why is my trash belt this high? Yeah. You don't want your trash man walking around our body $4,000 suit. Does anyone want to take a break while they're getting this? Stretch our legs. Can we take a five minute break? Perfect. All right.

Okay. Five minute break. Okay.

Judge has to failure that I'm underest test one two test test. We really want to use technology. We can hear you Brad. Yeah. Well, if he's got the microphone down right on Mary or roll. You're live. Just go ahead. You're live. You're live. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. I don't.

So, I'm here today. Jim kind of get a little he gave a little intro uh about the presentation, I guess. Um, I wanted to start off kind of how we got to where we're at and why we do what we do inside the jail with programming. So, um, I wanted to show um, a two-minute trailer um, that the sheriff's office, the jail was in involved in. It's called The Addicts Wake, but it's a trailer to a documentary that we are part of that kind of explains why we do programming inside um, a jail facility. So, hopefully we'll be able to hear the sound. You hear it?

This all up now because we prepared for it as law enforcement as a country or as a society. It's monumental in the way that it's affecting America. Drug addiction has come home to everybody. Those people, God bless them. You know, they didn't give up on me. Those first responders, we've just kind of arrested people. You put them in jail and you have this expectation, well, they've been in jail, so then they're going to get out and they're going to do the right thing. Never happens. It's like what we're trying to break. You can't arrest the addiction out of somebody. But I was looking for change, my ability to do something different. I thought I would be a drug addict all my life.

I've been incarcerated here several times and now I'm working inside the jail. Everyone is capable of redemption. probation officers, for parole officers, for correctional officers. You believing in somebody, you could be the one person in the justice system that's told them that they can do it. I need to get help. Like my stat is, are you going to live?

Law enforcement is critical. There has to be accountability. That is the first step in their freedom to becoming sober. This is intense. It really gets deep.

We're looking for an answer. To see somebody walk in with that answer is huge. This is just a different way of helping people. It's the way of the future. I just kind of want to preface for how we got to where we're at. So this is a 38 minute documentary. Um it was designed for um public safety law enforcement to teach them what can be done inside a correctional facility. So it's I've spent a couple places I went to national conference in Fort Lauderdale and did a pro promotion on it and you know so at some point I'd kind of like to show it here um invite the public. I did one in Brown County this fall as well. So, um, but it just it brings to light what what's taking place in corrections and how we can make a difference. So, um, so with that, I want to kind of give you some numbers and why. Sorry. Okay. So, just just start off with 65% of inmates in the United States have a substance use diagnosis. Um, you know, that's that's that's pretty extensive. That's pretty high. And 20% of those are under the influence of drugs and alcohol at the time of their criminal offense. Um, so in order to combat what we see, that's why we started the jail navigation program. That's why we invested so heavily program and provide you know the treatment and growth towards rehabilitation to individuals incarceration connect them to those needed resources that's what

they do um and I'll buzz through these so I don't take a lot of time um but uh you know the importance of the jail navigation piece having that system in place and so we started in June uh July of 2022 and the idea and the process of that is is when inmates come in the jail navigation meets with them. Um, they do an intake and then they basically assess and see what their needs are and what type of programs that they actually can put them in or what what their what what their needs are when they come into the facility. Um, and so and and leaving and you know we work obviously with many partners and I'll have a list of those here lately or later. Um but you know the investment that we we initiated with the hospital and the connection center they're part of the justice navigation program which is part of this whole was part of this whole deal. Um you can see just with some of these right here. Um this is some of the programs that we actually have and what the navigation team uh facilitate. Um our flagship I say program is our moral recognition therapy program. Um we we work that's that we're getting a lot of referrals um to this program from the judges and probation and stuff like they want people to go through this program because it's a very successful program. Um on top of that we have you know we're utilizing the tablets and I have numbers for those. We do the GED and highet testing. We got parenting inside and out. Um health education. So you just see we just have a multitude of different types of programs that we're actually facilitating inside that facility. Uh Brad, can I ask you do does u a person have to be an inmate to be part of that? You said the judges refer people. Yeah, they're an inmate. There's Yeah, that they have to be part of that program. Okay. Yeah. Now, community corrections also runs an MRT program through community corrections, too. They come into our facility, but they also run on the outside. So, if they're

sentenced to a, you know, just home detention, um then they they might push them through that program that way. Um so these are some recent numbers I just wanted to show um of our graduates. So this year 2025 um you know we've had 135 individuals go through it. We've have 108 graduates. Out of those 108 graduates, we've only had 15 of them return. Um number

got your own little cheerleaders back there, Sheriff. Um if you look at the highlighted section, those are our kind of uh numbers from when we started in 2022. Um so 265 graduates with 35 that have returned. And so we run right around a 13 to 14% recidivism rate or return back to jail rate which is really unheard of and that includes jails throughout the country or so this is our jail. Okay.

You know we have looked at data of you. So, we've taken our graduates and we looked at have they've ever returned back to the state somewhere because it's really hard to Yeah. once they get out to try to to collect that information, but they have they've went through they went through my case and, you know, say, "Hey, if they've been hooked up somewhere else, something like that." And so, it's, you know, it's above that a little bit. Um, but we're still in the the 20% range of of recidivism or return back to jail. And generally speaking, they you don't get a lot of studies or a lot of stuff on recidivision dealing with jails. It's mostly with prisons and they look usually like a three-year return rate, you know, coming back to facility. Um, this is based off of, you know, just the numbers that we're dealing with and in the year that we're actually dealing with. So, you know, well, we could have different numbers in a three-year span like most statistical numbers come up with, but this is just kind of where we're at on a on a yearly or annual basis. Brad Brad, could could I interject some? Sure. I I like to to um to to to look at numbers and u trying to use some kind of a metric to measure this and and I know you can't uh look at the total number of people in jail and say you know it has something um 100% to do with the recovery program but back before CO we were running jail population of 350 375.

That was 360 here locally. We had Well, no, we had 260 in our current facility. Had 70 others in four counties. Yeah. Yep. And And you were kind of using community corrections too. Work releases jail too, but there were a lot of a lot of pe over 350. Sure. And the number the number I just looked at your jail population uh like yesterday it's 200. This morning it's 207. Okay. Yeah. And so that's the lowest that's the lowest it's been. 207 is the lowest it's been since we moved into that. Yeah.

Yeah. And the population since then has gone way up. The number of uniform police we have in this county has gone up. Well, it's a fantastic product of I know we took a beating, but we're building a new jail. Okay. I was one of them that took a beating for that. And for everybody that that was negative on that in the community, voted against it and all that kind of stuff. It's a this is a product of why we needed a new jail. I don't even think you were sheriff at the time when we all went down to Dearborn County and we saw what they were capable chief deputy. they were capable of doing when you could isolate people that wanted help from people that didn't want help. That's true.

And we had people in other facilities. We had people here. We had no way to to put 40 or 50 people that wanted help and keep the four or five that didn't out. And you couldn't do the you couldn't do the navigation programs. You couldn't do all of this. And this is a benefit of of why the purpose of the jail is not to house more people. It's to keep people from coming back like a program like this. We had a 92% res revidism rate, whatever you say it. But now it it it shows once you can can uh once you have the space to treat people and to in groups and on and the ability to do that stuff, it it really uh really is a a great benefit and it is a positive on why we have a new jail and and what's happening with our community. I'm really proud of the program and I'm proud of Hancock County being one of the uh first to throw into this navigation system. I think your number speaks for itself.

Yeah, it's you know it is it's been wonderful. I mean I am proud as well of what they've done. I mean the navigation team, my jail staff, everybody, they've done a tremendous job of facilitating and making this happen. Um, you know, we've been to several places. You know, I visited Madison County here recently and talked with their judges about what we've done. So, they're they're basically building a facility to duplicate what we've done and them and try to get things like we've done. And I told him, I said, "Listen, I said, you know, this isn't happen overnight. You know, don't expect immediate change. Long time to get to where we're at.

It 10 years to get to where we're at. And so don't expect it at the beginning, but you know, it's going to take time to get to where we are. And so I've talked to we've talked to Madison County, I've talked to Adams County, I've talked to another county up north. Um, you know, people are recognizing, you know, um, that, you know, there's a difference being made here and they're wanting to know how we're doing it. and I up when we were visiting other jails before we built this one what you are able to do with outilities that the others had. So to step up to that level I

yeah you can do lots of things when you're not overcrowded. You got the space to be able to do it and you know there again have the therapeutic communities have the pod specifically you know dedicated to the programming which we do. We have multiple u male female. So I mean it really has been a blessing to see what's happened and it's really super exceeded my expectation farther than what I thought we would be at this point in time. So

Brad I have two questions one on the slide and one about space. Um, the last time I was in the jail with you, the recovery pod itself was fairly new in terms of putting those people all together. How is that going? Does it make a substantial difference? Do you see us adding more than one recovery pod in there?

Yeah. So, I mean, obviously, I won't be around, you know, growth inside that facility. Um, there is space inside that facility for some future growth. We built that in there for that. Um, you know, currently we do have three three different pods for males. Um, you know, we have a a pod that does the programming. We have a pod in the middle um that kind of um transition pod. So, you got guys that graduate that go into that one and we have new ones that are actually coming in that want to be part of the program. So, they kind of mentor them prior to going in to kind of give them an idea of what's going on. Um, and then we have another pot that kind of does the same thing as well. And so, um, if I was going to be around for the future, um, I would I would look at taking that future space and not maybe building cells per se, but building more of recovery recovery feel um, area, you know, but kind of like what maybe we seen at Dear Born a little bit with the more dormatory style, which is what they're in. the pods are dormatory, but more individual space where they have more individual beds, more more area for themselves, a little different decor. Um that goes goes to the recovery piece and and makes it feel more not so much the jail and more of a recovery setting. And so, um, I see I I And if you did that, then obviously that would open up, not that we need it right now, but that would open up beds for future if we need them for actual

population growth in inmates. Yeah. So, you know, hopefully down the road, you know, whenever it comes to and we see that there's growth needed for that recovery, which I assume there's going to be, there could be, um, we look at that area and we de we develop that in a space that, you know, we can move that recovery piece to that area. um to make it more efficient that way. My other question was about this slide in the mats in 2024. 32 requested mats, eight received vivitrol. The numbers are kind of inverse in 25 where there were more mats than requested is that all vivitrol or how does that come to be? What is it?

So it's mostly vivitrol. Um we try to stay and that's what's you know that's what's unique about our particular program. you know, there's there's data out there that says, you know, MAT and Suboxin, you know, you got to have it in order to survive and know better. Um, I I don't necessarily agree with that. I'm not a scientist, but, you know, so suboxin inside a jail facility is very difficult. Um, it's very difficult to regulate. They want to cheat it. They want to, you know, they want to give it to somebody else. So, it's really hard. Um, so we don't do a lot of that. Um, you know, there's case law out there says and it may come to us at some point in time that, you know, forces us to do it. I don't know. Um, but if somebody is on suboxin and you know, so if they come into jail and they test, we do, you know, we they say they're on it. Um, and we we find we can investigate and find out that they're on it and they're doing the program because they got to do programming along with it if they're on it. Um, but if they come in and they're hotloaded with other things, suboxin, heroin, fentanyl, marijuana, you know, to me that's not you're not doing what you're supposed to do in the program. Um, we discontinue that because you're not doing what you're supposed to do anyway. Then we we we do what we've done for years and we treat the symptom of withdrawal and everything else. That's what we do. Um, generally speaking, people don't want to be on Suboxin. They don't want to live the life to be tied down to that substance. Um, and so we offer the Vivitrol on the way out because it's a different it's a different thing. It's a blocker, you know, it blocks the euphoria of the high

um from the opioid. Um, it's an injection, right? Yes, it's a one-mon injection. So they do have they do have a suboxin that's sub that's also injectable but we haven't went down that road either but you know we do offer the vivitrol it's expensive but you know we take you know some people take take it just because you know they do still have that you know craving you know that that would you know stop the the euphoria effect or stop the block for the high. So so the majority of the 23 is vivitrol. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you. Um another another program parenting inside and out. This is actually facilitated by um our probation department. They come in they facilitate the parenting inside and out. We do the high school highet GED program. Um we have an health education program. It's done by step up. Um we're actually the first jail in the state that actually provides this program. Um it's a grant-f funded. Um it's it's being r it's run by previously incarcerated individuals that come in and actually run the program. Um you can see what uh what some of the topics are that they actually talk about um in that program there. Um this is just another data and I'll go through some tablet data, you know, some more tablet data here in a minute. Um you know that's a big you know the tablets are a big big thing in in inside the facility. Um, so we have currently, you know, this year we've had 777 participants in that program and, you know, through November we had 22,647 people that earned a certificate and I'll explain some of those certificates in a minute. Um, we have a life skills program, the health education program that I just talked about, which was that step up step up program in 2025. We've had 131 participants in that. 115's completed that course. Um you see the AA um we have about 25 attend that particular program uh per week. Um here's our GED H high set graduation um scores and we've had 60 participants. Uh 32's taking the test. We've only had eight pass 22 is well eight pass partial pass and then 22 actually received their diploma. And so they are getting their education while they are there.

Uh the parenting inside now I talked about that with probation. Um number completed the program this year has been 14. Um we have an MRT anger management program in there as well. Um 16 completed or 21 completed that program. Um 21 participants and then completed between October and December. That that one's fairly new. um domestic violence MRT um facilitated by community corrections. We do now also have one of my justice navigators or my jail navigators. She is also certified in MRT. So, she's facilitating that with the women. Uh peer recovery, we have peer recovery coaches come in as well. um you know that's an important project you know and those are those are lived experience people that's had lived experience coming in with recovery and so they come in and they they talk um with our individuals there as well um we have recovery circles by recovery cafe um smart recovery certified addiction peer recovery coaching and that was the certified peer recovery coaching um individuals at 2025. Number of individual sessions 229. Average number of sessions per week is nine. Um with our recovery coaches, we have Fogo. I can't forget about him. Um some programs still under construction. We got tobacco sensation. We were working on that. I'm still working on the vehicles for choice. Um I'm working, you know, starting on some IT stuff to get that going. But that's going to be a VR training system where they'll be able to get as ASS asse certifications um for mechanical for um working on vehicles, changing oils, changing tires, doing brakes, things

like that. And it's all VR done. Um we started the MRT back in October. um tablets um t we talk about tablets and it's it's a large expense but it's a it's a major part of our programming that we actually go through and are in that jail and so any all the programs that we actually offer I mean there's there's backend there's there's backend um purpose for it you know that result in good things um so when you keep people busy and they're educating they feel like they're worth something and doing you know, we're cutting down on fights. We're cutting down on injuries to to staff and inmates. We're cutting down on litigation. You know, we're reducing the amount of people that are coming into the facility, which reduces health care costs, which reduces our meal cost um by having them not be there. And so, there's a lot of lot of back-end stuff. Even though there's a lot of cost up front, there's a lot of backend things that we don't really pay attention to that make a difference. Um and these tablets go to that and there's a lot of workforce um stuff a part of that these particular programs. And so um so what we've seen this year um you can look at um total total hours spent in programs 70,764 hours have been spent in program so far this year. um 107,531 of all time since we started the program. Um and so you you can see that the numbers are large. I mean we've 2,44 certificates um all time 3,286 certificates. These certificates, you know, go back to getting employment, you know, getting people educated, getting people skills

um to get jobs when they when they leave the facility. And there's also the personal development portion of the the tablets as well. And so you can see u most earned certificates um is in our master plan which I'll give you some information on that in a minute. But you can also see at the bottom here, you know, we have um appliance repair, solar, um the plumbing, electrical, uh HVAC electrical, you know, advanced manufacturing. You can see where our levels are in our trades are higher, you know, or our higher numbers are at, which is a good thing. We have very smart individuals that are in there. You just got to give them an opportunity to give them a chance. Got specific certificates. Um they're again electrical, interplay, HVAC, you know, you know, higher certificate um courses. These are our programming hours. So you can see like say in March of 2025 um you know we we're up around 9,000 hours a month

academic skill enrollments. Could I ask you back back on your um like the skills, the mechanics and um is that all just academic inhouse learning or do they go? It's all all in-house certificates all academic all through the tablet. Okay. They're not actually working. They're not working anywhere and they're not going anywhere. Okay. that would be

and if I was going to be around another try to facilitate something to that effect that's that's what I would like to also see a little bit when we get this new building this new facility in the back where you know down the road where we you know maybe our changing brakes you know things of that effect where we can educate those guys be able to do something that would be a goal I would have had I still be around to be able to do some of that as well. So, on the on the tablets, I'm going to bring this up uh real quick. I talk too long on this,

but I know people have been against tablets, but when I went I went to uh Judge Circ had me do another speak speech at drug court and this time to speaking, I met with them privately and did a Q&A. And of the things I learned from them, the biggest thing, the most important thing to them, the thing that helped them the most of everything that's been done in the jail system and going through drug court is the tablets. The people were most excited about the tablets. They are taking those degrees and now have jobs and working. And they were telling me all about that and how that was the most important thing. And please always fund it was essentially their message to me. Um, probably above anything else, even keeping drug court. So that was a massive statement by them. I wanted to bring that up so you all aware of it. uh from my

yeah for whatever reason if there's some the glitch if there's something that goes down you know and then they they stop working for a minute I mean they just blow up you know with messages saying hey it's down it's not working we can't connect we can't get on this and so it is a major part of what we do there um and keeping them busy and getting them certificates and they're very and that's what's that's what's really cool too and I've talked about it before is is you know when you go back there and you hand them a certificate or they get a certificate you know you just see the enthusiasm on their face because they've never received anything before. They've never never graduated from school. Nobody's ever given them a certificate. Nobody's ever cared about them getting that. And so when they see that, they're proud of what they've got. And so they that's why they they're just so ingrained in getting as many as they can. And we've even had to limit them on some of them because it's like, listen, you're going to have to share the wealth, you know, because sometimes they're sometimes they're limited on the particular programs because of licensing. Um and so you can only get so many, but they just really really truly want to learn. And I've had him say, you know, if it wasn't offered, if we had to pay for it, we wouldn't do it, you know, type things. And so it, like you said, it it is a very important part of what we do there. When I've gone to visit MRT, the first time I ever went to go sit through the sessions w with the guys in the cell, Matthew, who you saw in the trailer video, the guy that has his head shaved,

uh he told me, he said, "When you go in with the women, you'll hear them talk about becoming a better mother, but when you go in to the men, you will hear them talk about wanting to be a a good employee, which kind of surprised me." And sure enough, it did come up right away. You know, when they talk about leaving, it's about being able to be a good employee, being able to be a provider if they have a family, but even just a provider for themselves. So, there's a whole lot of like self-esteem that I didn't recognize tied to getting a job and and feeling like that's something worth staying sober for.

Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean they all have reasons for staying sober and you know like the the one girl that we Danielle that you know we kind of pulled out originally and you know and she you know she says you know one of her big reasons for staying sober is because of you know you and Crystal you know believing in me believing in and you know you seen something in me that nobody's seen before and that's why I want I don't want to let you down. And so and now she she she runs a she's runs a recovery center in in Ohio. But th those are the stories that make you know that you're doing what you need to do to make things better. So um academic skills I mean is part of the tablets as well. Um you know not just not just the trade stuff but you know they got college prep exam you know stuff GED prep course. So that all helps with our GED and high stuff. Um softskll courses. This is that master plan. Um that is very high in what um what they're doing as well. They're again soft skill enrollments, digital literacy, basic work skills program, financial literacy, that's a big thing. um personal development. That's the that's the master plan stuff. And so this is some of the stuff in the master plan. Um you know, breaking generation cycles and transformation, family centered purpose. Um you know, and so it's we there's just so much that these tablets are be able to accomplish um that they have the opportunity to utilize staff to student communication. I think this is important too. I mean, they have the ability through the kiosk inside the blocks to be able to communicate um to the navigators and they're pushing out information all the time, asking

questions, what can I do, can I do this, can I do that? And you can see the numbers, you know, and say like in the peak there, you know, February 2025, I mean, you know, you're at 900 messages being sent, you know, to the navigation throughout the facility during that time period. And so they're very busy responding to inmates through um communications through they can through the tablets and through the uh um kiosk inside the block. Um just want to bring up these are all our partners you know since the beginning that we actually work with now with our navigation. So you can see the navigation. You know, they they they outreach a lot of different programs, a lot of different places, know and and working with many many places to get people where they need to go if once once released. Uh so we're living places. Uh and you know, so it's just amazing. You know, we started out with nothing and you know, within four years, you know, here we are with all this contact. Um, we work with the churches. Um, you know, that's an important part of it as well. Um, we have, uh, Park Chapel comes in, one of our programs. he actually comes in and does a physical fitness program with them exercises and keep fit and you know and stuff. So that's that's part of some of our

Brad quick question get individuals that are you know particip sometimes then request a modification sentence and go back agreement between the prosecutor, defense council, and they can maybe get a modification and out of your jail. And

yeah, we're seeing that. We're seeing more of that now a little bit with the judge. When we first started, they weren't judges really didn't know how and how successful were, but now that they know we are, you know, they'll actually say, "Hey, if you if you complete MRT can come back and you can request modification. Not that you're going to get it because we know there's been a couple that haven't, but they can request that modification.

I've had some too that you know, it's like, yeah, you obviously want people to get out, but never been provided anything before of the programs that are off. So, they don't want that modification because want to be able to continue be able to get as much as they can while they're there. So, it just depends on the individual. But yes, we do see some modific you know, I stopped in a local business a few weeks ago and uh the guy at the counter I had met when I the last time I came to MRT that has the Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And um and he he was like, you know, and he told me how good he was doing and and all the good things and was just saying, you know, going to Hancock County Jail is the best thing that ever happened to me. Yeah, he's was so grateful for the time he spent there. Yeah, he was he's a good dude and he was one of our inmate workers and I talked to him before he left and I said, "Listen," I said, "You're ready." You know, time you got a story to tell. He does. You have a story and you you can make a difference and you can be one of these peer recovery people come in and, you know, give your story because have visible signs obviously, but I know he goes to church.

Oh. and goes there and so he tends that and so yeah and so he does he's got a story but yes you're right he's great at telling it'll make a difference

um final tips and takeaways you know everybody's different everybody's got a different pathway and that's why the navigation team you know they they meet with them they decide which path they need to go and we give them that opportunity there to make them make things better for them because they may never have had that opportunity before. So, these are just some of our success stories, some of the things we've done. You know, Crystal's been to South Carolina, did a pro presentation with Origin. I went to DC and did a presentation. Um, did the addicts wake. Um, you know, we've done some podcasts. Um, Crystal co-presented with Origin on a webinar. Um, I did Addicts Wake at national conference, talked to Madison County, Adam Adams County, and then we're actually doing a uh we're going to be co-presenters this summer with Origin at an educational conference um national educational conference here in Indianapolis. And so, um, you know, we get around, we do things, and you know, we tell we tell our story. So, I guess with that, I mean, that kind of puts the preference on and what Jim really wanted and you should hopefully you have it in your packet. Um, you know, the the jail programming budget summary that, you know, I've kind of come up with for the 2027 budget. Um, and most of it really revolves around um the navigation money. Um, you know, we we know we know that two of the navigators are in ARPA currently. We know that that fund ends at the end of 2026. Um, though, you know, it shows their salaries. Um, one of the navigators, um, is being paid, partially paid out of the Health First Indiana, uh, fund, which

not going to do anymore after this year. Um, and so because I think that that fund got decreased and from what it was, I think they lost some money in that. So, um, I don't think the plan is to to go ahead and help fund that one. So, um, our major costs are are what you're going to see to try to figure out in 27 is the navigation piece and how to fund that. Um, and then on top of that, I I did put in the in the program, you know, allocation of 120,000. Um, that I don't expect to happen. Um, and the reason I put that there is is because that would that that's that's the part of the MRT. That's what Matthews is. And his since he is not paid by the county, he's grant funded through the the ISA comes through the sheriff's association from the state. If that would ever go away, if that would just fall off, which I don't think it's going to, there's no no indication it's going to fall off next year.

That's what it would cost. Who's the ISA? Ner association. So they get it through DMHA or Department of Mental Health, I think, where he filters through ISA. Okay. and pays him to do quality correction. Okay. I don't think that's going to go away. I talked to him there, but I just wanted to add it just so in the future if if that pro if that grant fund goes away for whatever reason, we that would be what it would take to fund that because that's important and that's a very important piece of what's going on in along with the tablets. And so when will you know about are you suggesting that we put it in the budget just in case or when would you know if the next year is funded?

Um we'll know at budget time you will know if you're I'll have more information by then this is for 27 obviously which will be budget time now. Yes. Yeah. on the radar. Yeah. But I don't anticipate it being there, but I know in 27 we're going to have to figure out Yeah. Yeah. Um let's see. Oh, question for you. So these amounts 2027 funding need I assume that is the salary itself. Deborah Mary, have we been already have we been using ARPA to pay for any of their benefits or FICA tax? Yes. All coming out of the

Yes. So this is not really the amount we need to go ahead and add benefits and FICA and pension to this number if ARP has been paying the pension out of it. Well, the pension is out of per so it's just because pension so it doesn't get paid out of that. So just uh health insurance and FICA taxes. Yeah, I didn't I didn't take the total. Well, I'm sure we'll have all those numbers for you when you get ready to And I I didn't I didn't look at that piece. But that'll be budget now. AR ARPA. Yeah. It's being paid out of the ARPA, right? Yeah. Everything Everything currently for them is being paid out of ARPA. Okay. It's not just the salary,

right? Yeah. So, we need But is it in your is it is already in your budget and getting reimbursed from ARPA or it's not in the It's its own file. It's its own club. It is coming straight payroll out of that line. Okay, for that

and then because the because Matthew has been grant funded and as a contractor, let's pretend the grant evaporated indefinitely. Would we be budgeting more than 120 to also cover the benefit? I mean, would we be trying to hire him as a full-time employee of the county? So, I had to I talked to him about that. Yeah. And so, he he wasn't interested in doing that. So, what what probably would happen would be is if that grant would since he is a since he's he's employed by QCC. Yeah. um pay through them through the grant. Um my suggestion would be is we would just increase the medical budget

um or his contract for his contract piece and that way it just pays for him out of the medical uh to be there and that way it just but wouldn't need benefits or Okay. No, he still remains an employee of them but still works here doing that. Okay. um going forward, maybe not even into 27, but I would assume, you know, we're supposed to be getting um the opioid money on a continual basis that some of this would definitely qualify, I would think. Absolutely. I mean, I you know, especially obviously unrestricted, but I mean, even restricted because that's what we're working on inside the jail. And so,

I don't know specific definitions on that, but I would say so. Yes, that's what it looked like to me. I looked up some things yesterday. Yeah, I don't want to quote it because I don't know it verbatim, but if you look through a lot of the guidance that was issued on opioid, these things certainly would qualify under allowable uses. Uh but there is also guidance that the money is not intended to fill to just replace, you know, to cover things that were already in your budget. So sure,

you know, we'd have to defer to legal opinion if it came to that. If we didn't have money to pay for it elsewhere and wanted to use opioid funds, I bet that it I bet it passes the bar, but there is also guidance that they don't want you covering your pre-existing expenses with it. That sounds right for a grant, right? They want new they want new resources added, which I'm, you know, if the inmate population goes up, you won't be that far from adding more more than these resources. Yeah. It's kind of kind of balance, you know, hey, you know, you do a good job with the programming keeping your levels down. Yeah. You know, hopefully you don't have that increase.

That would be the idea. I would think that in 27 our first look should be at putting it in the general fund budget. We are well over target in the general fund as we talked about at the beginning of the meeting. It is perpetual ongoing expense. Um,

uh, Greg, uh, Geratoss, uh, indicated, um, recently that he thinks that if we accumulate all of the costs that we're incurring with the hospital also, that that would make a really good case next year for going for an excess levy based on mental health, which would be general fund. Yeah, but we're not going to get an excess levy every year. Uh, and if you put all of the costs for all the mental health,

which is probably pushing $750,000 now, u, if you put all of that in, and then let's say 28 it doesn't happen, uh, the excess levy doesn't happen, then then then we got a little bit of an issue. I I mean I I'm just brainstorming, Jim, when you when you throw all that in there. We may not have got an excess levy this year.

Um I know Geras saying that they made their mind up, but they didn't call us. So that doesn't vote positive for my thinking about it. And yeah, we could put it in there, but if we guarantee we're going to pay all that and then we don't get the excess levy, I'm thinking about 28 or something where we're going to be be behind the eightball every year. Well, depending on how that excess levy request played out. So, I I agree that it should be put in

funding. No, no, I I I agree. But there is that possibility and and it's not going to be 750,000. It's going to be more like a million two million three. So, it's going the other way. I I my first priority for me personally and my vote will run towards us with the jail navigation system and and and our own or you know what I mean this program here we have to prioritize what we're facing

then if we can make a good case where the money could come from but yeah this 22,000 a year um and it has to come out of general fund it has to be permanent it has to be in there somehow we have to figure out how to move it in there some. Well, he's got more requests. I know. I see. I know. But I mean, he ain't done.

Well, and I'm sure that we'll be continually discussing with Greg our our 5year plus sustainability even more often than usual because of SB1, but to Ken's point also earlier, you know, we started this year with 21.6 six in general fund and we if you remember last year approved a budget that was intended to be more than our anticipated receipts because we were going to spend down the balance and we still ended the year with 28.9 I'm sorry not with 23.9 million. So I I definitely think there's room for these expenditures and agree that outside of this system everything needs evaluated separately.

And you know I to that though one reason we ended up with a little bit more money is because we're our health issue wasn't as bad in 2025 as it was in 2024. In 2023 and 2024, we had excessive health claims and that went it it subsided a little bit when we geared up for it, but that doesn't mean 2026, you know, that those that's a that's a wild card. Um, so we got we still got to prepare ourselves for for health claims. Oh, yeah. there's plenty there to to increase those target balances, but we always do have to remember that that general fund,

there's a lot of places that are already funds that are spoken for with that. So, you know, it's not like we'd have $23 million to deal with. A lot of that is already uh spoken for. And we we don't have the total picture yet on the mental health because u I apologize. I talked with uh Amanda Everidge and uh she thought that she was coming to next week's meeting which she will. Uh so we intended to have both of them here together. So we're looking at the whole thing because they do interact together. They're not separate. Yeah. So we'll get that next week.

Yeah. That's where I get the million too. Yeah. What I look at this as, you know, people that have a lot of money facility, but you know, people that are in the jail, they they have no hope for any anything like that at all. And this is giving them that. Yeah, it is.

Again, the new guy, but I think also just from this short presentation, there's additional cost if you don't invest here. So, while it may not be a full $750,000, it may only be 300 or 400 because if you don't do it, there could be I don't know what the cost of a bed and three meals and all that is, but the jail population soarses or you know something because we don't do this. So, I think not looking at in a vacuum of what the total cost is, but what the net cost. So, I think the net cost could only be 2 or 250. We would probably I'm not going to ask you to run those numbers, but that might be good for us to have what you think the net investment would be cuz you have this investment, you have the do nothing. We might meet somewhere in the middle, but that might be good to have. Maybe there's a better term for it, but I would call it what's the net

Yeah.

cost. Yeah. So, if if I was holding all DOC inmates, we would get $42 a day to hold them from the state. It's more like $79 a day is what it really truly would be. They'll actually hold one, but they're only going to pay us the state only pay. Um, back last fall, I calculated um, which I should have done for this, but I calculated the amount of days of the individuals that had not come back. How long, you know, hour days that they hadn't been reincarcerated, which was like 69,000 days of all of them. Um, and I calculated I calculated by the high

and the low. Um, and at $70 a day, had they been incarcerated, it was upwards around $6.5 million of cost had they been in jail for that time period that we weren't county taxpayers weren't paying because they were not incarcerated for those days. And so it sounds it sounds like a lot at the beginning, but when you look at those numbers, I mean, there is a substantial difference in that cost. But I I see what you're saying. Yeah, you're right. is to have that true net between the two. Yeah. And I think too we're investing here in prevention. Oh yeah.

Not just incarceration and maybe we're preventing a mass shooting. You don't know. Hopefully we're preventing lots of things. You know, pre preventing, you know, future burglaries, future thefts, future DUI, you know, everything. You domestic violence, child. Yes. Absolutely. Um, you know, hopefully you see those numbers of everything going down by what we're doing. So, can somebody refresh my memory? Last year we went ahead and got that 250 for the origin tablets in the budget. It was it in general fund.

It was in low. Yeah. Now, currently it's for the 26 budget. I had to look it up. Well, I had to get Mary to look it up because I couldn't find it. It's in the uh Lowat um correctional facility. Okay. The one 1234, but it's in there. Okay. Okay. And that number that I put in there actually is about 5,000 high. I got a number about 243 244 the other day. So, it's a little higher, but close. Okay.

And then the subf fund is the one we're moving a few basis points to. Um, we should have and we we we will in effect. Yeah, we'll double check with Greg. I I'm sure that if it was already in that budget for 26 that it's it was in the it was in the 26 budget, right?

Yes. And that's one of the reasons that part of the uh that lit uh is going down. And I think maybe he didn't catch it right at first because after we put in the request for the uh let change uh this came up and we had put in the change request for lit economic development rather than lit. Oh that's right said that so because also I think

we were afraid to change it. Yeah, because we've changed the matrix. We've changed correction officer pay. And so, yeah, when you look at the receipts and expenditures, it's definitely out of balance. So, are you ladies able to deposit funds from lit economic development into lit correctional facility sub fund or would you just start paying it out of lit economic development? Are you allowed to move funds from I didn't think so. like that. No. So, we selected from the state and we deposit in

and now we're stuck with that for a year before we could change the percentage to the I I understood from from Greg that somehow we could we could move it. Okay, we'll ask him about that. Yeah, we just wouldn't be able to co-ingle the fund because it sounds like in 2026 you're going to have to pay expenses out of economic development that we've been paying out of the lit correctional facility sub fund unless we reallocate that piece of the tax rate or pay out of the different funds. We just can't take an expense out of u the jail and put it into economically development. Yeah,

we can do it some way. money is funible. Yeah. I I just want to publicly recognize you, Sheriff, because the initiatives that you've taken uh in these programs that you have done um I think you've made a tremendous impact on people's lives. Should be recognized for that.

I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. And it's a model, honestly, it's a model that could be followed in a lot of different counties with the sheriff's departments really across the country when you think about it because we always think of a sheriff as being a law enforcement guy and, you know, arrest people, get them in jail, and they're more concerned about that part, but what you have done is just your legacy. I appreciate that. Thank you much. That means a lot coming from you. Also, the council and the commissioners should be commended for funding these programs.

That's the other part of it. And you know, I I I can see what it's done. Yeah, absolutely. And I greatly appreciate it. And I know everybody that's going through a program appreciates it. And I got a great team. I mean, obviously I come up with ideas and and things like that, but I mean, truly speaking, my my team, my navigation team, they're the ones that are doing it and making it happen. So, but I do greatly appreciate that. Thank you much. You want to go right on? Yeah. Now, he wants more money now. Yeah. Now he wants the cars. Vehicles. He needs to borrow John's tie. So, we'll switch.

We can switch gears a little bit. both sides.

Um so in your packet I I have the um cost associated with the 20 26 model cars. Um and the total amount of $833,280. Um originally we were looking at 20. I've reduced that to 15 based off of mileage. And so I'm just looking to get 15 to replace um what we got in 2026 that are already exceeding 100,000 miles or more already. Um, and so, uh, the earlier that I can get these ordered, the faster that I can get them because if we order them now, they'll be predicted to be in, um, by June potentially, which is kind of hard for me to believe, but, you know, usually because it's the fall when they come in. So, um, but anyway, I just I I needed to get, um, I guess that approval. this is what it's going to be um to go ahead and move forward to get that rolling.

The uh 2025 go bond is used up there their there there were um sheriff's cars in that. So this will have to come out of a 26 g bond. But like we did last year, we could say, "Okay, go ahead and we can use what do we say? general fund money or food and beverage food and beverage. I think it would beverage we replace to get us by until the run and we we had it in the geo bond agreement that it would be reimbured

reimbured. So I have a question then and Deborah and I were talking about this for the 2025 geo bond our balance is 4 uh4,325 and change mark for projects 314,000. So, we've not accounted for $833,000 out of the 2025 bond yet. That's not earmarked in there. That's not earmarked in there. This is a new I didn't understand what you were asking. Yeah, that's all right. Right. This is a new scenario,

right? Quick question though. Is this how how much every year? Because we're being told this is the last year we be able to lean on bonds. Um there won't be a 2027. That's what I'm kind of planning for. So there won't be a 2027 bond. Yeah, it's going to be fairly consistent. I mean, I need to go back and I don't know how many sure because based off years, you know, we've gotten

there again, CO messed with us a lot and how we did our rotation because, you know, that one year they weren't building them and then we're, you know, then we got a hold of a bunch and we able to get 20 and then so it kind of created the rotation kind of messed up and then we were leasing now we're buying and so trying to get everything back squared away in order. Um, I'd have to go look and see how many um 24s that we be replacing in 27 um to give you a number on what that's going to be to see, you know, and then obviously, you know, what's the increase in cost going to be, you know, you're looking probably a,000, $2,000 maybe a car. Um, so, but it's going to be close to that 15 number. I'm pretty sure it could be 10 to 15. I think

yeah, we'll we'll just have to keep in mind in the future after this of where we'll fund out, right? And maybe some of this we can lean on or something or something something like that we can lean on. some $800,000 a year that's not in the general fund right now is a is a toughy going into SB1 and also the that's not NAD either right you trade these in

we'll trade them in and so either trade them then or we'll sell them and so I'll probably utilize Enterprise because they said that we'll do that even though that we didn't buy them or leasing them from them on our on the new ones, our purchase ones. Um, but they can facilitate a sale to maybe a smaller agency somewhere that's maybe just needing a car where we might get a little bit of an increase in cost versus trading them. So, there will be some return on what we have. How much it is, I don't know. It's not going to be phenomenal by any means, but percent if we're lucky. Yeah. Back to the general fund. Yeah. Oh, whatever that is

that comes back to the general fund by default I suppose auditor I'm sorry if it would go back where they came from does it come back to general fund by default or or wherever the being purchased from is where it goes I don't think it can go back to the bond well it comes from the bond oh no the purchase the cars come from the bond can't go back to a bond okay

um and we did we did pay the previous vehicles out of the general fund and reimburse that. So if if this is a conversation that you think you want to go ahead and advertise that money out of the general fund to prepare moving forward, we could do the same type of thing and reimburse when we when we close on the bond. I think we need to do a reimbursement resolution before we do any of that. Just like we did that just recently we did a reimbursement resolution. Would you prepare one for the council meeting? Always have to have a resolution to reimburse. We could do that in the council meeting. He'll prepare a resolution. Yeah, because he needs to order the equipment.

A little direction. I'll make sure I kind of like we did the last. Your expectation is that if you moved forward with this order now, you would be paying when? I would again it depends on what they say when they're coming in. I'm looking at a June, July possibly. I don't think it'll be anytime sooner um than that. Um I I just I can't believe they're going to get them built that quick. It just it just seems to me not happening. But So you would be interested as soon as today in a motion to proceed with initiating the purchase, but we have plenty of time to do a reimbursement resolution and before we pay for the Absolutely. I just need to get a thumbs up on an order. Yeah.

To advertise. Yeah. A thumbs up to advertise the money from county. Yes. Okay. We'll have to wait until Wednesday. Okay. So, let me ask a question then. So, I have my information correct. Uh the funding source was planned to be out of the 2025 geo bond and we are not doing that. Is that correct? No. So, do I need to put that in the spending plan for the 2026 bond? Yes. Okay. So, it's going to 2026 bond. Yes. Right now, you're saying in 2025 you have 800 some,000. It hasn't been accounted for yet. Um, no. We used it.

It's uh for your first set of cars. Yeah. And that's what we reverse. Yes. Yeah. Or the shells out. See now, did you have to wait on your car? I mean, the funding quite a while while the cars were waiting. Did you Did you uh We got it all worked out. They were fine. I mean, you know, we But you waited. They were sitting there month. I would be surprised if you get your cars in June. I would be too. When they told me that, I was like, "Yeah, I would like to be sure we have the money though. I didn't like that last year." No, I didn't either. But, you know, I love We couldn't pay for them. It could always be the first time ever order them and then I know it's going to happen. We waited years for cars.

Years. Take care of that next week. Okay. I'll just wait till next week to call them and say I don't think you should order them. We didn't. Um and so lastly, um you should have in your packet and obviously this has been a discussion here lately in the last couple months. Um and it uh involves the the addition of court security officers. Yeah.

And so I kind of I I came up with a proposal for that. Um I know originally I had said six. I put in this proposal five. Um I was just trying to maybe help out the council a little bit. I think we probably still need six, but I wanted to get something started. I wanted to get it going. Um and so that's why I put in five. Um the the idea for the program would be is a kind of a subdivision of the jail and I would I would foresee taking senior jail officers and place them in the court in the annex and then rehire at lower rate uh new jail officers to fill those spots. um that way it's kind of operated through the jail and and as far as that goes. So um I I took it to the commissioners yesterday um ahead of time got a thumbs up from them to move forward with the proposal and presenting it to you today.

Now do they do away with their baiffs then? So they have their own individual baiffs which is different than the court security. Yeah. So they have baiffs that sit inside their courtrooms but they do different functions. So these are not in the courtroom people. These would be in the courthouse. They're not specifically inside the courts. Now they may be depending on the situation. They could be called up there to go in the court um if need be depending on the you know volatility of who's ever there. U but mainly it's for the security of the court. you know, the entry points, the floors, the annex. Um, over here, here. How many people? Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Well, where because I do this all the time going over there. Do uh all five where are they going to be if they be there at the same time or are they is it staggered? Because I know they're full-time.

They're full-time and it's going to be on It'll probably be on some sort of flex schedule depending on times. You know, we're we're also looking at um you know, at least once a month being here for a planning commission meeting we've had some issues with. So, there'll be some flex time to have somebody here present for that. Somebody to have somebody here. Um you know, the idea was to would be to have five here all the time, Monday through Friday. We obviously don't need them on the weekends. Um but flex those times during the day depending on what we need. Um the only big thing that we're going to run into is it's not so much days off because they'll all be together Monday through Friday. It's just going to be the PTO time, you know, when we want vacation, when we want time off. And so will

that one be assigned to this building? That's that's the hope is to make that happen. Yes. How can you keep from trying to burn overtime or anything like that by the flex time scheduling when they have evening meetings here that someone has to be here? Is that what you're talking? Well, it's not so much overtime, it's just the PTO time they gather. get their regular PTO time that they earn. Yeah. So that's taking those days off, you know, for vacation or sick. And so yeah, if you have five and all a sudden, hey, you got somebody sick and somebody's on vacation, then you're down two. So we're hoping to backfill those spots with the part-time, you know, when we have part-time and say, hey, I'm going to be on vacation. Can I get a part-time guy to fill that spot while they're there? So that's the idea hopefully going forward with that. So, will the part-time budget then need to be cut for

because you won't need the part- timerrs as much as Well, the problem is we don't have the part-time. We don't have part-time now. We just had one retire and you know, and so we're actually trying to get a few more part-time just so we can have the flexibility because we don't if you don't have the if you don't if you don't have I mean, you might have the numbers. We may have five, but they're not all going to work all the time. But you got to have the budget. you know, we may be able to reduce it somehow, but we also have part our whole part-time is involves all our part-time that includes, you know, any kind of part-time maintenance that we got, you know, court security, anything that we deal in part-time. So,

and just case in point, um, I wanted to make just this week, um, and I haven't told the sheriff this yet, the, uh, our mail carrier kind of had a little meltdown up in the auditor's office and then continued that into the hall and was uh, Corey witnessed it. Uh, our cleaning lady witnessed it and a couple of patrons to the annex witnessed it and it was brutal. So, I met with the postmaster yesterday and he is under investigation, but I saw him walk through here. Oh, really? But those are the types of things that are going to, you know, when you say go postal, I think he did. Well, to an extent.

Did Did an officer come over from the No, he left on his on his route. But, you know, as I told the postmaster, I said, had the sheriff or one of his deputies been in the building, he'd probably been in cuffs. And Brad, you say the judges are uh supportive of this, are they? Oh, they're definitely supportive of having more security. Yes. Now, I didn't give them a number figure. I didn't, you know, I didn't say, "Hey, I'm going to ask for five." I didn't say, "What are you supportive of number-wise?" They are definitely supportive of

having more over there. Yes. And I know there's been conversations amongst council and and members and them and I think even commissioners and them um and probably they voiced their opinions on court security. So how how do you um handle um uh currently uh issues in in the courts? My wife was just uh in a a week-l long uh case

and she said that um on the last day of court uh the jury went out and then came back into the court and suddenly there were like four uniformed officers in the court. and she didn't know whether they were jail or you know mar deputies or where they came from. Yeah. Learn later that the good when you get people gone ballistic and so so you obviously do something.

Yeah. And so depending on the threat you know depending on the volatility of the situation you know we get manpower there and so and we got we got a large scale case coming up in at the end of the month that's going to take some manpower to um make that happen. I know that's been kind of a concerning trial that's going to take place um here. And so um we're working on that currently to make that happen and get more manpower there. Um we're we're utilizing, you know, some jail staff now um over in court security because we lost one of our part-time, he retired and so he's gone. Um we've lost a couple that are part-time over the time period. So we're only down to one or two. I think we got two part-time guys right now. So, I'm I'm currently utilizing a couple jail officers over there, but when you do that, then that decreases the staffing levels at the jail. And so, but uh so, so is this five uh net increase?

Yes. But how much were we already budgeting and spending to do court security that would not be needed because of the five new? Well, that that would only involve that would involve the all the part-time money because we have one full-time guy over there that's in salary already stay and get the rank pay. Yes, correct. Is that Jay? That's Jay. And so the other everybody else in that falls under the part-time salary payment and that's already in the jail's budget. Sorry. Is that already in the jail's budget? Yes. Is there other part-time in the jail's budget that's not courthouse related? Would I be able to tell what's what if I Probably not. Okay.

It's all lumped together. So, like my most it's it's really my maintenance. I have a maintenance guy that's part-time. He for a while. Um and then um I got a logistics guy that's part-time, but he just retired January 2nd. So, um but he's going to stay on parttime and help a little bit here and there. So, it's really hard to tell because it's just it's on one fund. And so you could probably pull it through salary and see the individual individuals on what they're getting paid and where it's coming from. Yes. Yeah. If next time we talk about this if we could just at least a ballpark of I mean we're we are paying people some amount of money to be there. So how much is that because that's not

but you're still going to have to utilize that top of these five the parttime because if I if you're calling for five fulltime and I want them all the time. Yeah. They got to if they're going to be off, if I take a PTO day, if I call in sick, so that five goes down to two or goes down to three, I got to fill those two spots. And you've already made the the comment that the part-time monies needs to stay in place. Yes. For for situations like what you just said. So, we just recognize this would just be adding five additional new people, which

I personally and Kent and I have talked about is we've been running on borrowed time. We're lucky that we've not had anything significant or major go absolutely in one of these buildings that we were not there to handle.

When I was on the school board, there was a film that happened at that time from Florida where a gentleman walked into the room of the school boardroom, started shooting schoolboard members. Okay? And uh so I had a big beef. They wouldn't let me carry a weapon into my schoolboard meetings. Okay? And u I was previously a police officer. I was trained. I knew, you know, I'm certified for the I was certified for the state, everything. They would not let me carry because it was on school property. And so I think that's why you see now police officers at the school board meetings. They weren't prior. Okay. We did have death threats when I was on the school board from a couple gentlemen uh because we went through a building phase. I've I've read death threats to to the the council since I've been here for 13 years from some people that that are so far out there on

Sure. Okay. So, we whether you realize it or not, we have had debt threats and we are living on borrowed time. I don't see any way around this. It's just it's now we have the cap the capacity to do this to help us out some. Uh, I struggled too a little bit with not carrying a weapon in here. I feel safe when Brad's here. He comes to all the meetings. We have somebody at the meetings, you know what I mean? But I don't know. I don't come with the planning commission means I don't go to the other meetings. If there's not somebody there, uh, there probably should be somebody there. Um, it's just the nature. It's it's the nature of the beast.

Well, I'm glad that it's going to be I just know from past that's office had issues. I know the auditor's office has had issues and I don't know about the other offices, but we've all had those moments where we either skip button or somebody make a call real quick and get somebody over here. So,

well, and I I shared with you the experience that one of the experiences that we had where we had somebody threatening people out in the parking lot and we called 911 and nobody ever showed up. That's cuz they didn't call you. I mean that usually goes to the Greenville police. I'm sure there was a miscommunication somewhere, but you know what? If he Exactly. You know, if he did his threats, we wouldn't have had any protection. So, I I think people think that because we're paperwork people, they think, but uh people do get very upset with some of the things.

Yeah. And I want people to understand too, you know, Yeah. even though you got security here. I mean, if there's a legitimate threat, I mean, if you feel uncomfortable that there's a legitimate threat, my suggestion is not seek out the person that's in this building. My suggestion is to contact 911 because when you contact 911 that gets dispatched and it, you know, you might have a city officer sitting right there, right there, right there. You might have a county officer sitting right there, right there. You know, you're going to get response. And so, I I struggled with that's who we called. we call 911 and nobody that's really surprising

but you know to be fair but then I have to say one time uh a man was threatening over there he came into my office and uh um John followed him over here he was the police chief at the time and he followed him over here cuz I turned around and looked and he was standing in the back of my office so I knew there was a problem you know but and and the guy did leave but you know um so I want to make sure I balance that out. Yeah, Jim makes a lot of people mad. We're always we're always worried about department head Jim. Yeah, Jim makes a lot of people mad. So, we're always worried about them taking what happens if I press this. Would you press that button? You're going to get a response. He's going to get paged that somebody one of us.

My phone's going to go off. Well, I used cross the street. Well, yeah. Yeah, it used to anymore. So, it was need somebody here in the annex full time. And I appreciate you. I mean, you know, that's a deterrent. I mean obviously you know this likes the schools and that's why we have law enforcement in schools. It's a deterrent. It it takes it it takes a soft target makes it a hard target. Yeah. Right. And it is just a deterrent too.

You can't do it here but we did it in the schools where you can't enter the building without having to be addressed by someone in the office first. You can't be even led into the structure. And uh but we that was safe school scenarios that we did when I was there. We had to we had to renovate rooms. We had to move classrooms. We had to do a bunch of stuff to get the just to get the school. So when you walked into the front door, you weren't walking into an area you could access a classroom. And uh now we've got something similar to that at the at the courthouse, but eventually that'll probably happen here too.

Okay. So this is probably that bare minimum what we're going to see you know what we need. I mean as things grow and things change I mean we talk about new justice complex you know how's that going to change down the road you know what are we going to need over there you know probation you know I don't I haven't seen so I told the commissioners yesterday I said I don't I haven't seen what the the plans or what the plan was inside the the community corrections for probation. At one point in time, the plan showed a a security post inside there um that actually let people in and out based off of where they were going, whether it's juvenile or adult. I don't know whether that still exists or not exist. So, I mean, there's going to be some need down the road probably for some additional, but here we are trying to get a bare minimum to get something going, I think.

Okay, we got it for 27. May I ask a question, Sheriff? Is there a link somewhere where people can watch your documentary? I've received that request while we're sitting here. Um, no. Yeah, it's so the producer ah of it, you know, she's obviously got a business. Okay. And she So, what she's doing is she's we're doing some public ones. That's why I want to do it public. Um, but she wants law enforcement agencies to purchase it so they can use it for training and so that's why it's not just out copyright problem.

I see. So if we get that request, we can just forward that on just Yeah. Yeah. And so I would really like to do a public showing. Oh. With the officers. Use the high school maybe to do that. You're the president. Um, did you How soon did you want those five new officers? Yeah, he just he just said he did. I called 27 and I think you want it like before 2027 like as soon as possible. Yeah, that was my hope. Mid year. Yes. I mean cuz everybody hoped. Yeah.

Well, I mean I'm I'm just going off of the conversation that's been taking place in the last few months between everybody and the judges and needing security and, you know, needing it sooner than later. And so that's why I'm bringing it to us now to see if we can get something facilitated. Now, now that's obviously not my decision. Is it possible if we only did part of the five this year then finish the five for next year? Is that a possibility? Everything's possible. I mean, you could work with it. Three is better than none, right? Five is best. Yeah. But if you if you didn't start the five till halfway through the year, you're looking at half that cost. Yeah.

Well, I'm a little bit like Kent. I think we've we've been very fortunate and nothing has happened that's too drastic in the courts. But, you know, that would be money well spent if we saved somebody's life or several somebody's. Absolutely. Again, that's I'm bringing it to you guys, you know, and I'm I'm willing to listen and do what we need to do. But, you know, I would the sooner the better, sooner the five the better. But it's not my decision. I'd like to see us work towards a half year scenario. Say it out loud. Yeah. I'd like to see us work towards a half year scenario this year.

I'd like to see us work towards a half a year scenario this year. We're July 1st. He's got people going. Yeah. Yeah. Um I said earlier, I don't know why we need to beef up a rainy day because the money never gets used. So maybe if you're thinking about beefing up a rainy day, then maybe we can beef up security. Yeah. Uh let's take it up in the council meetings. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I just need a time frame so I know how to proceed,

you know, get my ducks in a row on when I start a process for hiring staff because I don't want to be, hey, we're good July one, but I don't start till July one. I want to start before. So I want to be ready to go when I have the spots. So okay, I think that's all I got. Thank you. Auditor Janine just handed this to me in uh fund 4700, our self- insurance liability. Our ending balance is $447,424. She needs money appropriated because she's got bills to pay

that. Yeah, that's the cash balance. We went over the funds earlier. So, it's a cash balance that did not get appropriated. So, we just need to appropriate that so that we can pay those bills. So, I would just need a thumbs up to advertise. Awesome. Got it. Thank you. There you go. Anything else? I move we approve. Auditor. Oh, anything else? Nope. I'm good. Okay. Before we approve the minutes, Scott Binky, the minutes included that um in January you would bring a different reimbursement resolution than what was discussed today for 500,000 for um food and beverage,

I think. And so I just wanted to have that I give that to Sarah. Oh, okay. December. I already did that. Yeah, I was thinking guys said I did it already. Not that the minutes need to change, but I just wanted to point out before we leave here today that we agreed to do that. Apparently, yeah, I had to refresh my memory when I read the minutes that apparently that works. That one too. Sent it out and was Mary, you have that. Mary Bulmer.

Okay. Uh well no he was supposed to create a $500,000 reimbursement resolution for fairgrounds from food and beverage to approve this month. It's under 4 before we give the 4 the 500. Yes. Okay. But you do have it. Somebody is okay. Okay. Perfect. That was my only thing I wanted to comment on. Sounded familiar but I couldn't remember. I move we approve the minutes December 3rd. I second it. All in favor say I. I I oppose. I'll abstain. I abain. I wasn't there either. Return it to you, but I'll keep it. Second. Okay.

Are we done? All in favor say I.