County Council - Regular Meeting

We're going to start with the public hearing in a moment. Recording in progress. Okay, everybody. It's 5:58 p.m. I'd like to call the public hearing to order. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

If we could please remain standing for a moment of silence for uh corrections officer Nancy Connell, who passed away unexpectedly last week.

Thank you. Okay. Roll call, please. Miss Lawrence, Mr. Hos, here. Miss Krishnowski here. Mr. Luscavage here. Miss McDermott here. Mr. Perry here. Mr. Sabatino here. Miss Smith here. Miss Stevenson present. Mr. Thornton here. Mr. Wavovich here. And Mr. Lombardo here. All present. Thank you. We'll now have public comment on the proposed ordinance amending the Luzer County Personnel Code regarding residency requirements for division heads and certain management positions. Mr. Rabbo,

can you turn the mic on? Sorry, Mr. Rabbo. Could you say your name again? I don't remember.

Yes. Yeah. In case you forgot, Mark Rabo of Hazelton. Uh I have a question on the proposed ordinance. Uh I don't have an issue with uh getting qualified applicants the county lines if they're preeminently qualified and are able to you know make uh be able to do the duties and be able to show up for the uh for their for their you know for their uh daily requirements. But I do have a question with regards to relocation. uh or if they're going to stay in their where they're residing outside the county lines, are they going to be compensated for uh commute uh if it's uh above a certain or beyond a certain uh distance? Because in some cases, I know in some counties they do that, you know, that they would accom make the accommodation for, you know, uh prolonged travel, if you will. So, that's my question. Do

you have any other any other No, that's it. Thank. Okay. Manager Crocomo, you want to respond? That that that is absolutely uh not going to happen. Right.

All right. Thank you. Any other public comment on the ordinance? All right. I do have uh one email here that we received. It is from Robin and Walter Cochan. It says, "Dear Luzar County Council, we do not support amending the personnel code with regards to the mandated on specified Luzernne County management positions by discontinuing the residency requirement after the employee has attained 5 years of continued employment with the county. We understand your reasoning is based on the difficulty in getting new hires. However, our position is that once a new hire has been here for 5 years, they will be established and hopefully have fallen in love with the community and not desire to move outside the county boundaries. Eliminating this residency requirement eliminates an employee having a stake in the game of the health of our government and county. This is akin to a number of out of town landlords who are purchasing properties here. Not only are they making housing unaffordable for residents, they also do not care about the quality of community seeking only profit. We hope you will take this point into consideration and thank you in advance for doing so. All right, any other comments? Is there a motion to adjurnn?

Second. All in favor? Opposed? I meetings adjourned. We'll move right into the voting session at 6:02 p.m. I'd like to call the voting session to order. We've already had the pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence. Uh roll call. Miss Lawrence. Mr. Hos here. Miss Krishnowski here. Mr. Lavage here. Miss McDermott here. Mr. Perry Mr. Sabatino here. Miss Smith here. Miss Stevenson here. Mr. Thornton here. Mr. Wovich present. Mr. Lombardo here. All present. Thank you. Attorney Scheme, would you mind man uh would you mind announcing the executive session, please? Certainly.

We had an executive session wherein we discussed personnel matters and uh contract matters for specification before the meeting today.

All right. Thank you very much. Um, prior to council getting started today, I would just like to make uh an announcement and I think manager Crocomo will have um a few things to say about it as well. Um, so I know that we will be having a discussion regarding the uh fireman's memorial bridge in Pittston City uh later in the work session. Um, and I'm happy to announce as well that um the county uh selection committee has in fact selected a um building designer engineer for the uh Nanakoke West Nanakoke Bridge. It's going to be Majeski in Masters uh otherwise known as Eminem. Can't say Eminem too many times in front of Mr. Thornton though because he'll get hungry. Um but I did just want to go through a couple of points just to make sure that the public is aware of the process that we went through in order to uh in order to select them. Um, so Luzern County did follow PennDOT's guidance on selecting the consultant for the bridge and uh, as previously was stated at council meetings. The county staff uh, was given the opportunity to review all the proposals and recommended a short list of three different candidates. Um, the three short-listed firms were presented to the council selection committee on June 26th. That same evening, uh, council members did sit down and and meet to discuss the, uh, the individuals. We did a a brief ranking. Uh we discussed their pros and cons and we had to answer several questions that uh were given to us by PENDOT that had to be answered a certain way. Um District 4 staff continued to provide guidance and input uh with the required information that had to go into the ECMS which is why there was a couple week delay between uh this interview session and us actually selecting the uh the individuals. um pendot central office they officially approved the consultant ranking uh by the council selection committee and like I said it it was Majeski and Masters um and upon

publication of the results in ECMS Eminem actually has already reached out to the county for a meeting with the county staff and PennDOT and uh manager Crommo if there's anything else you'd like to add on that. Thank you uh chairman uh Lombardo. I want to emphasize that uh it's of great importance of the work ongoing work on the Nanakoke Bridge. uh the project is one of the top priorities uh for all of us and uh I'm pleased uh to announce that we're moving forward on that and actually a rather timely uh manner uh while ensuring uh that uh we're doing it right. Uh the firm that was selected uh by council uh I'm confident will do an extraordinary job. uh in uh this project uh your patience and your support uh during this process. It's a rather tedious uh process. Uh it's greatly appreciated. Uh we are working to enhance uh the community's infrastructure. It's one of the priorities that I have uh as the county manager and I know that county council members share uh that vision. Uh we have a lot of work to do. Uh but we are up to the challenge. Uh and with county c uh council support and pandot uh we're making strides uh towards a safer and more efficient and economic beneficial future for all of us. Um I'm very excited. It's going to be a very exciting journey and uh I already have a call scheduled with the project manager uh tomorrow morning at 11 o'clock. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you for entertaining us for that

for a moment. Uh, are there any deletions from the voting session agenda? One deletion, Mr. Chair. Go ahead.

Um, I propose deleting agenda item number five, the motion to adopt resolution employing approving the employment agreement offer letter for the manager. Um, because it violates the charter section 4.05 removal. Charter states the county man serve at the pleasure of county council. County Council may suspend the county manager pending his her removal by the resolution adopted by affirmative vote at least seven at least a majority plus one of its current members and on and on and on. What this does this handicaps future councils from taking such action and it gives a golden parachute if that's the case and that is not fair to the taxpayers at all and this has no stand on the current manager. I support her 110%. She's doing a great job but that is not the point here. If you vote for this, you are voting against the charter. It's a violation.

Is there a second on the motion? Second. All right. Um, roll call. Comment on that. Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, with all due respect, I respectfully disagree Mr. Hos's comment. This is just to remove it. Um, to remove it. Yeah, Mr. Thornton. I'm So, I think if we're going to have an extended discussion on it, we'll have to keep it on the agenda. I'll reserve my comment. I apologize. No, thank you. All right, there's a motion and a second. Can we have a roll call vote on this, please? Mr. Hos, yes. To remove Miss Krishnowski, no. Mr. Lascavage, no. Mr. McDermott, no. We'll keep it on the agenda. Mr. Perry, no. Mr. Sabatino,

no. Miss Smith, yes. It's been too quick. Miss Stevenson, no. Mr. Thornton, no. Mr. Will it? No. Mr. Lombardo? No. We have two yes and nine. No. Okay. Thank you. Are there any other deletions from the voting session agenda? Is there a motion to adopt the agenda? Second. All in favor? I. Opposed?

Okay. One one uh one no. Okay. Two nos. All right. Okay. The agenda is adopted. Is there public comment on voting session agenda items? Uh, I have two slips up here. I have I have Mr. Zola. Um, but it's it's for the public hearing. It says, Mr. Zola. Yeah, I think he's outside. How you doing? Mr. Zola, is this is this on an agenda?

Okay. Can we we'll have you speak at the end of this voting session then if that's okay. All right. Thank you. Sorry about that. Okay. Uh Mr. Rabbo. Can you just All right. Can you hear me now? Okay. Yes.

Item number five and six. Uh, with regards to item number five, I was here in 2018, the last time this was this uh an ironclad contract to give perks and increase salary to the then county manager David Pedri. I uh disagreed with it then, I disagree with it now. As per what Mr. Hos said about the charter, I agree with that. But I also agree with the fact, and I said this in 2018, and I cited at that time state law that says that a council cannot extend a contract beyond its current term into a new term of a new council. That is state supreme court case law ruling and Mr. Sche I'll be happy to send you the case uh Supreme Court case. So I hope that this council I takes caution to maybe amend the current term of the agreement so that way it does not extend into a new council that it binds the hands of the new council coming in. And I could have you read the part where it says um traditionally a new elected governing body is empowered to act on behalf of the public without being constrained by the contracts of its predecessor that would significantly weaken the new governing body's making use of its policymaking powers. Thus, historically, when a municipal governing body in the performance of its government functions enters into a contract, there have there

is local government commission. Yep. Yeah. Is that all you We'll give you 30 more seconds, Mr. Rabo, if you if you'd like. If you just Oh, just hold on until he until he gets Otherwise, the public that are on the Zoom will not be able to hear you. I apologize.

If you want to continue speaking, you should be able to. Yeah. Uh number six on the uh money that is being taken out the debt is that because of the state uh hindering the um the state services that or the services by provided by the county that's funded by the state. If that's the case then that's the same as what happened in 2015 and I'm sure Mr. Hos still has occurring nightmares about that because of the uh borrowing and that caused the uh the downgrade of the credit rating. I think Mr. Perry just started council at that time uh when that happened. So that was a very uh contentious time. So I hope that uh the state passes the budget and if they don't pass the budget then Mr. Chair I hope that you and the manager can force the state uh to pay for any uh penalties that would incur to the taxpayers. Thank you.

Yep. Any other uh public comments on agenda items only? Mr. Griffith.

Good evening, council. Let's see if this is Yeah, it's on. Okay. Um, I'm addressing council regarding the agenda item for the employment contract to the county manager. Please understand that I'm in full support of our county manager and as the county controller has worked with her since her hiring in May of 2023. She's extremely worthy of a salary increase and has been provided raises in the past without a contract. There are several examples of our county manager doing great things for the people of Werern County to reduce expenses from a revised time and attendance system that saved taxpayers over $100,000 a year to something as recent as what's on today's agenda to refinance a bond and save the taxpayers $2 million in in debt payments. This contract is a 4-year term which will increase the budget by 12% over four years. The salary increase for 2026 of 3 and a.5% is excessive and should be postponed or tabled until the 2026 budget is released by the county manager on October the 15th. And in addition, there are two members of the council that will not be on county council in 2026. Yet, we'll be voting and responsible to possibly award a contract that will increase the salary of the county manager and have no accountability to the public for their vote. The agenda item also is not complete for the public to understand all the conditions of the contract as there is an extension of employment offer letter that is not attached to the agenda and therefore there is no transparency regarding the cost and benefits provided in the contract. The proposed contract incentives and bonuses should be placed on a council work session agenda as they are not considered a personnel matter and therefore should be not a contracted item. Bonus incentives and salary increases should be provided if there's a budget submitted in 2026 that does not provide an increase greater than 2% of property taxes and every year thereafter. That would be a great incentive and a great use of a contract for a county manager. The home roll charter created in 2009 did not provide or anticipate a county manager be given a contract for four years or it would

have made the executive branch county manager an elected position by the people. Instead, the people wanted the county manager to be held accountable by our elected county council members. And the ability to remove that provision by awarding a contract to the county manager for four years is not the intent or the spirit of our home rule charter. The home rule provides the county council to award a salary increase for the county manager based on their performance as well as provisions for removal. for lack of performance and the ability of county council to provide a contract simply undermines these provisions and provide a mechanism to protect the county manager by placing excessive financial deterrence for future county councils to stifle these positions these provisions. In closing, as county council county controller, I've seen the lack of retention in the workplace as well as the loss of institutional knowledge that is created because of salaries not being sufficient for employees of our county workforce. We have employees that are here for over 25 years and their salaries are less than 45,000 per year. The county controller strongly recommends a a resounding no vote on this agenda item until after October 15th when the budget is presented. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Griffith. Anybody else for public comment? Mr. Schne.

Uh, thank you for the opportunity to speak. uh Robert Schneee Sugarloaf. Uh as a former member that served here six years, uh there were two outstanding managers I think during my tenure was uh Miss Mr. Pedri and Railda Crocomo over that time period. And why I'm saying that people would say why are you saying that? Well, I want to inform you where we were. I mean, we were almost $500 million in the hole before this form of government was implemented. So, that's not only like the managers for their I thank them for their leadership. Council members that are here and that served in the past that brought that down to $130 million. You brought up about the credit rating. I'm glad you brought that up. If you remember, we had no credit rating.

Can you just address your address your comments through the chair? I apologize.

All right. I'm sorry about that, but we had no credit rating. We have an excellent credit credit rating. Now, this building itself was in shambles. This is the jewel of the county. If you remember, the net was over that rotunda for how many years? That was all fixed. Windows replaced the heating system. This is just a couple. Handover industrial park wasn't there. Everybody boomed. We got jobs. Business flourished in that area. I mean, so we've come a long way from where we were. and Ramilda was turned down a and I'm very proud. Both of them were from Luzernne County. We didn't have to go out of state. We We tried that twice and it failed. We tried that. We have tremendous talent here in Lutheran County for any position. Any position, we have tremendous talent. But she was turned away. You know, you know when you pick up a person, she didn't like walk away. She didn't walk away. Her love and compassion for the county brought her back. That's what it's about. That's why she came back. She has her name out there, Crocamo. You go out every day and you give people 100% when you're in a position like that. Just as uh the elected council members, people are putting their trust

in you. There's not a better high in the world than people putting their trust in you as an elected official or as Ramilda as the county manager. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I I think everybody up there plus the manager have done an outstanding job. the people that have served previously an outstanding job. Thank you. Anybody else for public comment? Agenda items only. Anybody on the Zoom? All right. Hearing none. Is there a motion to approve the minutes of the July 22nd, 2025 voting session? So moved. Second. All in favor? Opposed? I.

Thank you. Minutes are approved. We'll now move on to the agenda. Number one, motion to adopt the resolution approving a modification to an American Rescue Plan Act funds awarded project for Mountaintop Area Little League. So moved. Second. Motion in a second. Roll call. Mr. Hos. Yes. Miss Kushnowski? Yes. Mr. Lavage? Yes. Miss McDermott? Yes. Mr. Perry? Yes. Mr. Sabatino? Yes. Miss Smith? Yes. Miss Stevenson? Yes. Mr. Mr. Willovitz? Yes. Mr. Lombardo? Yes. Unanimous. Thank you. Number two, motion to adopt a resolution approving a modification to an American Rescue Plan Act funds awarded project for the Wyoming Valley Airport.

So move second. Motion and a second. Roll call. Miss Krishnowski? Yes. Mr. Luscavage? Yes. Miss McDermott? Yes. Mr. Perry? Mr. Sabatino? Yes. Miss Smith? Yes. Miss Stevenson? Yes. Mr. Thornton? Yes. Yes. Mr. Wovich? Yes, Mr. Hos. Yes, Mr. Lombardo. Yes. Unanimous. Number three. Motion to adopt the resolution approving the allocation of opioid settlement proceeds to Endless Mountains Extended Care LLC. Second. Motion and a second. Roll call. Mr. Luscavage. Yes. Miss McDermott? Yes. Mr. Perry?

Mr. Sabatino? Yes. Miss Smith? Yes. Miss Stevenson? Yes. Mr. Thornton. Yes. Mr. Wovich. Yes. Mr. Hos. Yes. Mr. Kishnowski. Yes. Mr. Lombardo. Yes. Unanimous. Number four. Motion to adopt the resolution approving the allocation of opioid settlement proceeds to Restorative Roots WB LLC. Motion and a second. Roll call. Miss. McDermott. Yes. Mr. Perry. Mr. Savatino. Yes. Miss Smith. Yes, Miss Stevenson. Yes, Mr. Thornton. Yes, Mr. Wovich. Yes, Mr. Hos. Yes, Miss Krishnowski. Yes, Mr. Lascavage.

Yes, Mr. Lombardo. Yes, unanimous. Number five, motion to adopt the resolution approving employment agreement offer letter for county manager Rilda P. Crocomo, Esquire. Second.

Motion and a second. on the question. I just have uh one or two remarks that I'd like to make. And I mean this with all due respect to the speakers that came up, Mr. Hos, Mr. Griffith. I am honestly sick and tired of hearing people tell us that the charter says things that it does not say. I'm sick and tired of people looking at documents and telling us that they say things that they do not say. this employment agreement with manager Crocomo who has been a fantastic manager who has been somebody that I personally can count on every day to wake up and be in love with Luzern County. This document does not preclude a future council or this council from removing her as manager at our will. She does serve at the pleasure of Luzernne County Council, but more importantly, she serves at the pleasure of Luzernne County. And for her, I think it is a pleasure that she serves Luzernne County. And it's shown in every single day that she's worked here. And she deserved this contract on day one. And I am proud. I will be proud to vote yes tonight. And I'll be proud to support her every single day that I'm here. And if this is one of the last votes that I make as a member of Luzernne County Council, so be it. That's fine because I know that this county will be in good shape and in good hands with Ramila Crocomo. Any other comments,

Mr. Thornton?

Uh, yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I I do want to echo some of what you said. I think it's important and needs to be said because many people are not familiar with all of the things that are happening in the county. You can't possibly be familiar with as county council is. Um, so we are intimately familiar with the job that Miss Crocomo has been doing as as a county manager. I just want to mention that she has moved this county forward in a very quick manner, very positively and quickly. She is the one who has spearheaded a 0% tax increase in this county for the past two years. She is the one before any of council discussed any budgets whatsoever, she went to her division heads and demanded and mandated that they give their budgets to her and to council with a zero. That needs to be said. She is out there looking for out for the taxpayers of this county. Why? Because she's lived here all her life. She has a stake in the game. She I watched her reshuffle department heads and division heads yearly saving hundreds of thousands of dollars for the taxpayers. These are things that people don't see behind the scenes. Um respectfully disagree with Mr. Hos. It does not handcuff future council bodies as the provisions in this contract or agreement do provide terms for future councils to ser to separate service if they so desire. I do want to mention in 2018 council voted to extend the contract to the then sitting county manager which did extend into future council

members not yet elected. that happened seven years ago. Now, I do agree with County Controller Griffith with his one comment he made tonight at the podium where he said, "We have good employees leaving this county all the time because they're underpaid and we lose good employees." He just made the best case for extending this contract to Remlda Crockimal. And here's why. She has worked for more than two years in this role and we have not given her a raise yet. As a matter of fact, she has worked for more than two years at this job at less salary than the previous county manager who was here for five months disaster in his wake. She is not yet has worked up to that salary yet. So, for those reasons, I strongly support her continued uh leadership here in the county. I could go on with 20 other things. I'm not going to mention them, but uh those are important items that everybody needs to consider. And I would hate like heck for her to just get up and leave someday because she's not getting the raises that she should be getting. She's uh underpaid as far as I'm concerned as compared to the previous manager. And by the way, in 2018, we extended that contract. We gave a 6% increase at that time to the sitting county manager. Um I think it was a 73 vote that went through at that time. Uh we're not considering anywhere near 6% here. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Lcgavage. So, like my do fellow council people, I can probably go on for a few hours with great words to say about Ramilda and until you sat here and dealt with a county manager who in my opinion was way in over his head and probably would have bankrupted this county had he been here for two more years. It was this county was going to be a complete disaster under Randy Robertson. When you Google them, look up the fact that there was a guy that came out of a I think it was a city, I think it was in Kentucky, and he went through a five-year budget in one year. Does that sound like somebody that you want running this county? I highly doubt it. So, I'm not going to sit here and just bore you with the details, but what I tell you is there's not a time that happens where you pick up the phone, call her, ask her questions, email her, text her, she's Johnny on the spot to respond to you individually or as a whole. Somebody like that who does a fantastic job deserves this today. And I will definitely be voting yes. and I'm proud to also call you a great friend.

Mr. Hos, gentlemen, I appreciate what you said and appreciate what the gentleman from Sugarloaf said. We've got to understand that this violates the charter. Another citizen just said it violates a Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruling which essentially violates the state constitution. And it's it's it's emotionalizing what should be very grounded in fact. We will have six new members of council being seated on January 1st. This contract is a four-year contract that starts on January 1st, 2026. It's the fifth paragraph. We're talking past each other. Nobody disputes that Rmilda is doing an incredible job. I value her very much. This is not an emotional argument. This violates the charter and we've got to stop doing this. The public out there is very upset. You guys that are campaign, you you hear this from people. Maybe they're not being very forthcoming to you, but they tell me we've got to stop not doing the right thing. That contract in 2018, the 6% increase, I didn't support that when I was sitting on council at the time. That was terrible as well for the same reason. not had no reflection on the manager, on the leadership qualities, on the background, on the acumen, nothing like that. But it violates what we are directed to follow here as county council. How can we not see this? It's very plain as day. Who drove that argument was the chairman at the time who now sits on the on the study commission. Can't take a vote. Abstains. It's wrong. members. I just tell you, look at what's plainly written here. You're making people upset. We must follow the charter. Take the emotion out of it. We're all adults here.

Please. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield. Miss Smith.

Thank you very much. I agree that it violates the very language of the charter in that it s allows the manager to serve at the pleasure of the council. Yes, you are correct. This contract does not stop future council members from replacing the manager, but it does provide for a substantial deterrent and the substantial amount of severance. that severance is a threat or result that looms over the next council should they choose to terminate or try to find a new manager. That's the problem with this contract. People have also argued precedent here. Um but to argue precedent is a poor argument because it does not account for prior precedent being a mistake. Frankly, I don't believe that Randy Robertson ever should have been paid that much. And I don't necessarily believe that Dave Pedry should have been given a contract. I wasn't here then. But that doesn't mean that the president wasn't mistaken. And I agree with um Councilman Hos. This is certainly not about Ramilda, who I have known as a good county worker since she was Judge Garly's law clerk. She's known me forever. I've known her forever. I remember when she was appointed first assistant, I chief solicitor. I went into Dave Pedri's office and I told him, "Great hire. great hire. I went into her office and I told her how proud I was of her and how great I thought thought that hire was. I wonder if she remembers this sometimes. I don't know if you do, but I do. I do. I've known her forever as a good county worker. But it's not about emotional memories. It's not about what has happened in the past. It's about what the charter says and what I now have

since found in the PA state supreme court case law. It's violative of of the charter. It's violative of the PA state supreme court law. And while that may be unfortunate, it doesn't change that it's factual. Thank you. Any other members of council have comments? Okay, Miss McDermott.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't know if that can come over anymore. Um, Ramilda, you really are a pleasure to work for work with and the contract. I want to reiterate what what Joanna said. This contract doesn't stop council from removing the manager, but it does cost us a lot of money if we do that. And that falls on the taxpayers. Uh, that's my biggest things. I just don't believe that we should have a contract. I disagree with that. Imagine if we had a contract with Randy Roberts and you talk about that. I'm very sorry I voted for him. It was a big mistake. But if we had a contract with him, that would have been a big problem. And um and I know you work very hard and you do a very good job and you do deserve the pay. I just don't agree with the contract.

Any other council members? [Music] Go ahead. Yeah. Uh, Miss Stevenson and then Mr. Thornton, I want everyone to be able to have a chance to go. So, since since we are still dealing with discrepancies in the contract, can we bring it back to executive session? Not today. Or can we table it table the vote for today if that's the case and re reestablish the rhetoric in the contract to make it work and not violate the charter in state law. Could either or. Are you making a motion? I'm making the motion. Okay. To table this vote today. Is there a second? Second.

All right. Uh there's All right. Mr. Thornton on the on the question to table. There's no question on table. Sorry.

Right. I mean I I don't have the relationship that Mr. Lcgavage, Mr. Thorne, Chair Leardo with Rilda that you all do, but I've watched Ramilda do remarkable work. When I call Ramlilda, she answers the phone. We we sit and we discuss and we address our issues and it is it is an amazing process. This is not about Romela whatsoever. You are doing an extraordinary great job at your job. But if that is the case and we are challenging the rhetoric of this contract, then let's sit and find rhetoric that makes it work and not potentially violate our rule of law. All right. There's a motion and a second or call. Mr. Perry. No, Mr. Sabatino.

No, Miss Smith. Yes, Miss Stevenson. Yes, Mr. Thornton. No, Mr. Wovich. No, Mr. Hos. Yes. Miss Krishnowski? No. Mr. Luscavage? No. Miss McDermott? Yes. Mr. Lombardo? No. We have four. Yes. Eight. No, it does not. Okay. Seven. No. Seven. I mean, as a last com, Mr. Chair, if I may, Mr. Hos, and then Mr. Thornton,

again, I don't know who actually originated this. I know where this idea came from, but this should have been done at budget time. This is a budgetary issue. We're doing this right in the middle of the summertime. I I just don't understand it. And really, guys, you really got to re-evaluate what what you're doing here. Sets a bad precedent that's already had a bad precedent set five years ago, six, seven years ago. Mr. Thornton. Um, I yield back. Okay. All right. I

Oh, yeah. Let me I I'd like to add one other thing. I I know that there's discussion about the potential cost of what it would be to um to remove the county manager during the term of this contract. Um and and yes, that is a term in the contract, but there's a far greater cost of her leaving. There's a far greater cost of removing a county manager that's doing a fantastic job and it's number one finding somebody that will do a worse job and number two going through that entire process having it all done in the public which we've had to do twice. Members of the council have had to do that two times in a row and I do not wish that on a single soul in this room to have to do that ever again. um because it was a disaster and having Randy Robertson as a manager was a disaster. And I understand I'm trying to say this without having an emotional argument about it, but just looking at it logically. I'd like to make sure that our employees want to stay here. I'd like to make sure that our good employees want to stay here. And manager Crocomo is certainly one of those employees. I don't want her to think that council, any council is taking her for granted. And I I don't think that this ties the hands of any council. It certainly doesn't. Council's free to make any decision that they want. And I I I don't know that I agree with the uh the remarks about the state supreme court cases. Those to me don't make a lot of sense because I don't know if we're using them in the correct context because the work of the county has to go on no matter what we're doing. So I I'm not quite sure if uh if if they're being read correctly and I'm not sure if attorney can comment on that. Um but at the end of the day there is a far greater go through that process again and losing institutional knowledge and creating that vacuum of power. Not vacuum of power but that vacuum with the lack of

knowledge that will be created when a manager leaves here. And when that happened in 2022, when Mr. Robertson arrived in 2022, it set this county back not just years, but millions of dollars. And I'm not going to make that mistake again. Call the question. Oh, okay. Question's been called. Motion in a second. Roll call. Mr. Sabatino. Yes. Miss Smith. I won't do something that I perceive is breaking the charter. So, no. Miss Stevenson,

no, I will not proceed and feel as if I'm violating the charter that I took an oath for, but Remild, I will absolutely continue to support you in the best of my capacity, and I appreciate the work that you do, Mr. Thornton. Yeah, I would never proceed with violating the charter. And since the office of law has studied this question extensively and has not said it's violating the charter, I trust our office of law. I vote yes. Mr. Willovich, yes. Mr. Hos, no. Miss Krishnowski? Yes. Mr. Luscavage? Yes. Miss McDermott? No.

Mr. Perry, Mr. Lombardo? Yes. Four to seven. It passes. Thank you. Number six,

manager. Chairman, uh may may I have a minute? Absolutely. Today was a a very uh difficult day. Uh I went with members of the administration and uh children and youth uh to the services uh for Jacob who was tragically taken from us. And it makes it seem that everything else really doesn't compare. It was

a little

It was one of the most difficult moments and one of the proudest moments uh that I had being with uh the staff, children, youth and 911. I want to thank uh all all of you who uh support and believe and trust uh in me. It's an honor to continue uh contributing to our commitment, our collective commitment to advancing Lutheran County. Um, working alongside uh our staff, many of whom are sitting at the uh end of the room, is a privilege and uh and it's their efforts that uh are vital to our success. I recognize uh as with any human endeavor, I I make mistakes. However, I want each and every one of you to know, I want you to be assured that my decisions and recommendations always will have the best interest and always have had the best interest of Lzern County, not my own personal benefit. And only together, whether you vote it for the contract or not, but only together will we remain the gem of northeastern Pennsylvania. I want to thank all of you. Uh, and I'm deeply touched.

[Applause] Thank you. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your love of Luzar County. Number six, uh, introduction of the ordinance discussing discussion regarding the ordinance authorizing the incurrence of non-electoral debt for county of Luzern by the issuance of general obligations refunding bonds. Series 2025 and/or general obligation refunding bonds and an aggregate principal amount not to exceed 66 million30,000 which together with certain available amounts of the county will be used for the purpose of financing a refunding program payment of swap termination payments in connection with the refunding of the refund to 2015a bonds here and after defined and paying the cost of issuing bonds authorizing the preparation and filling of debt statement of other documentation covenanting to create a syncing fund into budget appropriate and pay debt service on the bonds and pledging the full faith credit and taxing power of the county for the bonds. Setting forth substantial form of the bonds. Setting forth parameters for the maximum principal maturity amounts and dates and maximum interest rates and other details of the bonds. Authorizing the execution of a continuing disclosure agreement. Finding that a private negotiated sale is the best financial interest of the county. Setting forth parameters for acceptance of a proposal for the purchase of the bonds. Appointing a paying agent and syncing fund depository and authorizing other necessary actions.

So move. So move. It's automatically introduced. So I'm introducing what he said. Thank you. Would you you don't want to repeat that? I know. In one breath. He didn't even take a breath. Thank you. Okay. Number seven. Motion to adopt the ordinance amending the Luzern county personnel code regarding residency requirements for division heads and certain management positions. Second. Motion and a second. M. I'd like to make an amendment.

Sure. In the very last whereas could we delete the section that states quote after the employee has attained five years of continued employment with the county. So again the rationale we we've talked about this for many meetings at this point. So let's make the law clean. Um we debated this several years ago. It was a 65 split vote. It was uh contentious and again the I see both sides. The reason is that people want our high level employees to be taxpayers to lose our county. That makes a lot of sense to me. However, at the same time, we had to say goodbye to a couple high level employees who live just over the county line. And I think we still have some similar situations today. If you talk to management, some of these positions, we have a very um slim pool of applicants in some cases. And um I think our ca our people, we're we're rather county tonight. our people can compete with anybody else nationwide. I don't think we have anything to fear. This certainly doesn't undermine any of our own people from applying for a job. What this does by removing this, it does um give a black eye to the political class because we know the political class really certainly has an inordinate amount of power compared to the average person or the average applicant. So, I'm making this submission uh again with the pleasure of council because I think it satisfies a lot of the requirements. We want the best for losering county. If that means going to Beaver Meadows or it means going to Bmont or if it means going to Old Forge, so be it. Even though it's just over the line.

So is you I just want just to clarify what your motion is. It's to eliminate the words after the word requirement. Correct. Okay. All right. There's a motion and a second. Uh roll call on the amendment. Miss Smith? Yes. Miss Stevenson? Yes. Mr. Thornton, sounds reasonable. Yes. Mr. Wovich, yes. Mr. Hos, yes. Miss Krishnowski, yes. Mr. Lcavage, yes. Miss McDermott, yes. Mr. Perry, Mr. Sabatino, yes. Mr. Lombardo. I don't mean to be the lone naysayer here, but I'm voting no, I think. Okay,

are we done with that? There's a Yeah, there it's a what is it? 101. 101. Okay. I think we also need to make a motion then to um remove it from the last whereas passed then did we not remove it from the last I thought we removed it from the last paragraph. It needs to be removed in two places. Oh okay that's the point. Yep. That was a mistake too. Okay. Is there Okay. You want to make that amendment then? I make the motion to remove it from the last paragraph after the word requirement.

After the word requirement, there's a motion and a second. All right. Just on the question, I just want to state my opinion why I voted no because I didn't obviously didn't have a chance to say it before. Um I went a little too fast. Um I I do agree with the idea of having an employee be here and and being um someone that's dedicated to the county for a period of time. I understand that that might um that might preclude some people from applying. Um and while I I certainly agree with those arguments, I just personally um would like to see somebody that has some dedication to Luzern County if they don't live here. That's why I voted no. Everyone else obviously free to vote yes, but that's just my personal opinion. Any other questions? All right. Motion a second. Roll call on the second amendment.

Miss Stevenson? Yes. Mr. Thornton? Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Hos, yes. Miss Krishnowski, yes. Mr. Lcavage, yes. Miss McDermott, yes. Mr. Perry, yes. Mr. Savino, yes. Miss Smith, yes. Mr. Lombardo, the first one passed, so I'll vote yes on this one. All right. Thank you. All right. There's a motion in a second. Is everyone okay with their motion in a second to go for roll call? All right. We'll have roll call number seven, please. Mr. Thornton. Yes, Mr. Wavovich. Yes, Mr. Hos. Yes, Miss Kushnowski. Yes, Mr. Luscavage. Yes, Miss McDermott.

Yes, Mr. Perry. Yes, Mr. Sabatino. Yes, Miss Smith. Well, I agree that having people invested in the county work here is an excellent idea and certainly it's something that HR could take into consideration when hiring. Where you live is not a protected class. It wouldn't be discriminatory. Um, I do think that this will help with the nepotism problem that we see and the consolidation of power that we've seen for years in this county. So, I'm happy to vote yes on this. Miss Stevenson, yes. Mr. Lombardo, yes. Unanimous.

Thank you very much. All right. We'll now have public comment on non-aggenda items. I have two slips up here. First, I have Mr. Zola. Hello. Hello again. John Zola Sugarloaf. So back in June, I was here at a meeting. We talked about Lurtis, right? Uh I'm the founder of the Alliance to stop the line. It's regarding the 12mile 500 KV line that Pennsylvania Power and Light is proposing to run from the Suscuana nuclear power plant through Nescape through the heart of the beautiful Sugarloaf Valley and on down the line to Humble. It's, as many of you know, um, it's cutting right through many people's yards, right next to their homes, right? It's unheard of. So, anyway, back in June, we had about 1,700 petitions signed of people opposing this. Today, we have over 2700 people who have signed who oppose this line. Um, we asked you folks, just for a refresher, um, we were asking council to immediately suspend all alert provided in the last two years for any projects south of the Suscuana power plant and the word is suspend. So, we're

asking for that to be put on the agenda for next month and voted on. The second thing that we would like on the agenda for next month and voted on separately is an immediate all new alerts for any project south of the Suscuana nuclear power plant. So again, it's a request for next month and we're asking to please put it on the agenda and have two separate votes. Please don't combine them. That's what we're asking. Um, as many of you know that you have, some of you have been to the sites, you understand the magnitude of this of this problem, right? So that's why I'm here tonight to ask and that's it. So

thank you Mr. Z. Thank you. Uh Mr. Rabo.

Um, I'm going to repeat what I said back in 2018 after the vote back then for extending the contract or offering the contract to then manager Pedri. The rush to vote to offer a contract. And believe me, I have no personal animus or hostility to any manager then manager Pedri nor manager Crocomo. I think she's done she's she's doing the best thing the best that she can do with what she's got just like Dave Pedri did. Let me make that clear from the outset. This is not about personalities, Mr. Chair. This is about process. I'm being very emphatic about this and I take great umbrage that somebody or any per official is going to say I don't know what I'm talking about because I'm I've been to state meetings since 2012. Okay. I've been to county meetings since 2013 and I've been to city meetings in Hazelton that same time like 2013. So I know my way around, Mr. chair. Okay. So, that being said, I know what I'm reading and I have the documentation to back it up. You know me well enough to know that and so do all of you by now should know that about me. This is not about personalities at all. The the thing is this is politics. This is not about personalities because of the fact that you bumrushed this through this contract through because of the fact it's an election year. Okay, just now the 2018 one was not an election year. This is an

election year contract. So for somebody for anybody to say this there's no politics involved. I got some keys to the gates to he of heaven to sell you for a discounted price if you believe that there's no politics involved. There is. And as far as count what Councilwoman Brenn Smith said about uh avoiding or trying to deter nepotism, I would like to add one one more uh problem has had throughout many years of its of its infamous history. Tribalism. and tribalism. When I say tribalism, I'm talking about the 7% of the population that controls 95% of the political elected offices and appointed offices. That is a statistical fact and it's very easy to prove. So, Mr. Chair, Mr. Vice Chair, members of council, ladies and gentlemen, if I'm wrong, I will gladly say I'm wrong and I will I will put myself at the well of this uh council and I will apologize, but I know I'm right.

Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Anybody else public comment? Uh just let the public speak first. M Oh, uh I there's I think there's more people in the audience. Mr. Griffith, you wanted to speak? I did give you a slip down, John. There should be a slip up there for me, I believe. Oh, you know what? There is one. Okay. Okay.

All right. Um, under public comment, I just want to say that, you know, I've been the county controller since 2022 of this county. I've worked under Randy and I've worked under Ramilda and I will tell you that it's a pleasure to work with Ramla. I meet with her weekly with or without a contract. She has been fabulous to work with and that's why I I said in my letter exactly what I felt. I don't think the contract is appropriate. However, Ramilda is a fabulous person to work with. If there's a question or a problem with an audit, meets with me right away. Gets her staff members on board right away. If there's a problem with something that I need a question about, the staff is always there. The staff has been fabulous to work with in this county. I I look forward to the next term of working with her as well as, you know, getting the county back to where Rem like to have it as the jewel of the Pennsylvania, crown jewel of Pennsylvania. That is a goal I know she shares. I share with her as well and I think together we can get that to happen. I don't my only concern is I want to make sure that we don't step on landmines along the way that we make 10 steps forward and we end up getting 15 back because of something that we did incorrectly. That's my concern. So I do appreciate all the hard work that Remild has done in this county since 2023 and I look forward to working with her with or without a contract. It makes no difference to me. She is fabulous to work with. So thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. And and lastly, could I um if we could just get an time frame of the extension of employment offer letter? I know that's not in the original proposal. Uh when do you have any idea when the public will get exposure to that? The conclusion of this meeting, correct? Oh, is it? Okay. Yeah. All right. Very good. Thanks so much. I appreciate it.

Any other M uh Mr. Walsh? Jamie Walsh, Ross Township. I just wanted to let council know on uh September 16th, I have the Office of Consumer Advocacy coming to town over the 500 KV line that they're proposing that PPL is proposing. And um we're still working on a location for that, but uh they're going to be in town. They're going to visit the site. They're going to look at the alternate route. they're going to um you know help guide through this process because it looks like it's going to be a long road that uh a long fight that we have right now. So that is going to happen September 16th in the evening. Um working on a location in time, but I wanted you you to at least get on your calendars if you want to attend and uh I'll I'll send an email as soon as I have all of the information for you.

Thank you, Mr. Will that be in the Sugarloaf area somewhere? It It will be right now. It'll either be in Sugarloaf or Nescape. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you. Any other public comment in the audience? All right. We have two hands up on the Zoom. First, we have Annie V. Hi. Yes. Can you hear me? Yes.

Hi, Annie Venitaryi. Sugarloaf Township. Um I I'm speaking first on behalf of uh Lar County Community Action Coalition. Um we're a community group working here in lower Lern County. We were appalled that our request recently to have an expert speaker was ignored. Um and I'm speaking on behalf of Mr. Wildman who is a resident Sugarloaf as well. We requested allowing subject matter expert on paralysis and chemical recycling um during this meeting to respond to a presentation that was given uh at a previous meeting by Altera Energy with equal time rather than a brief three-minute comment. Alterara had approximately 1 half hour to make claims about their technology. Um and we demand that the residents of this county uh get equal time to address their claims and share our concerns. Um, county council did not respond to our request at least up to this date that we are aware of. Um, there was a follow up email sent and no reply. We hope that as soon uh that soon at a future meeting uh we could invite an expert to speak. And in the meantime, the Altera matter has um at least in Sugarloaf uh been uh they have removed their um interest in that site. Uh we understand just this past uh week here. Um, however, it's concerning to me that council um was not responsive um with a request like this and and just raises concerns for future dialogue. I I think it would behoo council to um work on the response with the public. Uh there are a lot of people that care about this county. Um and and we we feel that if we ask uh to have someone present, especially someone who is expert um in a field, a matter expert,

that that be considered. Uh it's it's concerning that uh sometimes the wheels seem to to turn rather slowly. I understand you have a lot on the docket. We appreciate the work that you do, but I think this is an area that absolutely needs um some improvement. Uh but we are grateful to hear that for now Alterara will not be at the Sugarloaf location. will continue to push back if they choose to uh find another location in the region. We think it's very concerning um technology that's a lot of pollution that is not welcome for our um and I would also and this is a personal capacity I'm not under Lener County Community Action Coalition. I would like to um support what Mr. Zola said in his statement um regarding alertas. I know that's a scary topic. I know it's controversial, uh, but I think that it really, um, again would be, uh, good for council to look at look at this from all angles and, uh, take take personal opinions off of it and really look at what serves the whole community, both uh, large businesses and community stakeholders as well. Okay. So, thank you very much. I appreciate your your time.

Thank Thank you, Miss Maniti. And I believe as I'm sure you're aware um the infrastructure committee has had several meetings regarding um the pyrolysis plan and Mr. Sabatino actually has a comment or two he'd like to make regarding that. Um, we were going to address this at our next infrastructure meeting, which would be the third Tuesday of the month, but due to the fact that the majority of us are going to be at the conference uh, the county commissioners association of Pennsylvania conference next week, we have to find another date and scheduling has been hard in the summer due to vacations. So, we uh fully intend to make good on our our promise to have the expert speak and to continue with the resolution uh to deliberate the resolution against Alterara even though they're not coming to Lzern County. They are still seeking a permit from D and we'd like to weigh in on it. So, we haven't forgotten about you. It's just been uh a weird time in the summer trying to get something scheduled and on the books. My apologies. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Sabatino. Thank you, Miss Benitiier. Uh, next up we have a person uh with the name Beyond Plastics. Could you please state your name and your municipality? Hi, my name is Jess Connard. I'm the Appalachia director for Beyond Plastics. Thank you for allowing me to speak. I just want Can you just Can you repeat your name, ma'am? I apologize. Yep. Jess Connard. Connors. Okay. Thank you. Um, Beyond Plastics is a a national organization that seeks to educate media, policy makers, and the public on the plastic pollution crisis. And I just want to say that I fully support um Annie uh Venitary's um resp.

Okay. Thank you very much. Uh we have Mr. Herring. Good evening. Can you guys hear me? Okay, we can hear you, Mr. Herring. Go ahead.

Excellent. Uh, well, good evening, council. I want to uh I want to congratulate Manager Croakamo for this contract tonight. I think that um you know for those of us who who pay maybe a little bit more attention than others, you know, it has been um nice to see, you know, especially in recent news articles or recent uh news clips where I think there was a uh potential political issue going on at the uh the concert. And I thought that her kind of staying in the middle of the ground there and keeping politics away from recreational activities was was really a testament to I think how far the county has come in that regard. So I do appreciate that and uh you know congratulations to her. She did make a comment though that she makes mistakes as we all do as we all do every day. And uh my hope now that this is a settled issue is that one mistake that was made with the removal of Mr. Joseph Grant be rectified. Um I believe all charges should be dropped against him. I believe he was improperly removed from a meeting and uh again I think we can uh rectify our mistakes and I hope that's one that we do. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Herring. Anybody else public comment? Is there a motion to adjurnn? Second. All in favor? I opposed. It's uh 7:06. We'll restart at 7:15. Yeah, she asks about you all the time.

I I'm just trying to get a place. Can't get a place yet.

Congratulations. Look at Hey, good job. Yeah, we're

let this agenda department.

So, you know what? [Music] Well, not only that, you know, everything. It's a great tool, right? So far, you do a good previous.

So, moving forward, do all next county managers need to have contract in order. Does it just stop with her? It could stop with her. I think that was And here's the other thing that annoys me. You're saying you you tie their hands? No, you don't. And here's the thing. We all know in politics because I've been on separate boards county I mean county council west council I've seen people come in and fire somebody for no cause and no reason and guess what too bad I have a friend that wants and that's what that's what that's

C. Council members, please take your seats. We're going to get started with the work session. All right, council members, we're going to get the meeting restarted.

Please come back. All right, council members.

We don't even have

I'm still here, John. All right. Count. All right. We have Greg. Okay. Leanne's on the Zoom. I don't know. Oh, yeah. All right, everybody. All right. I'd like to call the work session to order. We already had the pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence. Roll call, please. Miss Lawrence. Mr. Hos. Here. Miss Krishnowski here. Mr. Lascgavage here. Miss McDermott, Mr. Perry, Mr. Sabatino

here, Miss Smith here, Miss Stevenson here, Mr. Thornton here, Mr. Wovich here. Miss McDermott, Mr. Lombardo here. You have 10 of 11. Okay. Thank you. All right. Any additions or deletions from the work session agenda? Just one addition, Mr. Chair, if I may. Sure. Could we put Mr. Zola's suggestion at the end of last meeting on which would be a uh a moratorium on litters going forward and a potential cessation of Lertis? It does. I mean, if you if you'd like to make that motion. Yes, I'd like to make a motion. Yep.

All right. Where are we putting that? Number nine. Yeah, sure. number nine. All right. Is there a mo is there a second on the motion? Second. Second. All right. Motion in a second. Well, on a question. Uh, okay. I'm just wondering would the public get upset that it wasn't publicized or advertised that would they want to be here to talk about that or not? I mean, it's a it's a it's a work session, so you can you can add it. I mean, you know, I I No, that's all right. There's a motion in a second. Let's have a roll call on this. Mr. Hos, yes. Miss Krishnowski, yes. Mr. Lcavage, no. Miss McDermott. Mr. Perry,

yes. Mr. Sabatino, yes. Miss Smith, yes. Miss Stevenson, yes. Mr. Thornton, no. Mr. Wovich, yes. Mr. Lombardo. Uh, no. We have three. No. Seven. Yes. Okay. Thank you. It's added number nine. Um, let me just Thank you. Write it in. Okay. All right. Any other additions or deletions? All right. Is there a motion to adopt? Second. All in favor? I

opposed. All right. The agenda is adopted. All right. Agenda item number one. I'm not reading that thing again. Um, so the discussion regarding the ordinance. Um, go ahead.

Yes. Hi. Good evening. My name is Ryan Hot. Hotenstein. I'm with FSL Public Finance. FSL Public Finance. Uh, engaged as the county's municipal adviser. With me tonight, I just want to make some introductions is Scott Kramer, Representative Raymond James, Kyle Denon, also also with FSL Public Finance and participating remotely um, representatives from Obermire Bond Council on this transaction. I just want to take a little bit of time and kind of go through an overview of what that long ordinance that you so well read at the last meeting really is and uh what the purpose of it is. So for you tonight, we have a presentation which you all have hard copies of. They're also on the screen here. Want to start with kind of where the municipal market interest rates are for outstanding debt. Then we're going to get into the county's debtfolio. discuss the refunding opportunity that you currently have in front of you and then open it up for any questions that you may have. So, moving on just to page four if you want to take a look. There's a quick municipal market update. The thing I want to focus on most really is that top section which says AAA MMD. AAA MMD is the benchmark for which tax exempt bonds which this county of Lazern would sell is based off of. And in particular, I want to highlight the two-year and the five-year because as we move in to the pieces of debt we're looking to discuss in particular, it's within that time frame. As you can see from a year-over-year perspective, that column on the far right, the 2-year is down about 53 basis points or half a percent. The 5-year is down about 29 basis points. Month over month, we're also down. And week over week, we're also down. Taking a look at page five, you can see that as well when you take a look at this line graph. You can see on those last parts there in 25, particularly that five-year MMD, which is the blue line on the bottom, you can see has dropped fairly significantly since April of 2025.

Moving on to discuss your outstanding debt portfolio. On page seven, you see the county currently has five pieces of long-term obligations outstanding. The total principal outstanding on those five pieces equals $125,150,000. In addition to that, you do also guarantee two pieces of redevelopment authority notes. But what we're really going to focus on tonight is the general obligation debt service of the county. In particular, if you look on the chart below, you have two pieces of debt that are highlighted in yellow. The first one, the general obligation bonds series A of 2015 and the second one highlighted in yellow, the guaranteed Lzern County IDA bonds series of 2017. The current outstanding balance on the 15AS is 54,865,000 with an interest rate of 5%. The second one is lower at 18 point uh 18.3 million also with coupon of 5%. The final maturity on those for the 2015A is November 15, 2029. And on the 2017s is December 15, 2027. You will see in that one column that says call date, the call date on the series A of 15 is November 15, 2025 and the call date on the 17 is December 15, 2025. Well, what that means is at those dates, you have the ability to refund those bonds for cost savings if market rate conditions allow. Currently, based on current market rate uh conditions, it would make sense for the county to move forward and refund those at cost savings to the county and its taxpayers. If we look at page eight, this is just a summary of your current outstanding debt service. And in particular, want to pay attention to the columns labeled A through F. Column A is the 2015 A's that we were talking about and column D is

the 2017 IDA bonds that we're talking about. In total right now, your current gross debt service is about 27.2.3 million in 26. It's about 27.4 and 26. 27 it is 27.44 and then it drops in 28 to 26.7 26.4 four and 29 and then finally only 6 million in 2030 when all of your general obligation general fund debt service is paid off in full. Taking a look at what the potential refunding savings to the uh the county currently are is we're assuming market rates as of July 30th 2025. We're assuming your current rating from S&P which is an astable um from S&P Global. And we've solved this refunding to achieve level or descending debt service in aggregate. So when we look at your aggregate debt service portfolio, what we wanted to do was achieve a level debt service so that every single year moving forward, your debt service will be the exact same or slightly lower as you move forward so that your budgetary impact isn't going to be anything new to your budget. Right now, based on current market rates, if you take a look at that bottom chart in page where it says 2025 refunding, we can refund both the 2015 AS and the 2017 IDA bonds for a total net savings after all cost of issuance and fees of $2.4 million to the county or $4.15% of your refunded par amount. Looking at page 11, this gives you the projected future debt service. And you can see we took out in column A, we took out that 2015 A's because we refunded those. We refunded the balance of the 2017 IDAS. And we have the new debt service in column in column G of 26.44

million, which really remains level through 2029 when it drops to 26.23 23 and then 6.17 for that last year just as it is in 2030. Page 12 shows you what that budgetary impact is on your budget. And when you look at your column savings in either column C or column I, they're the same. But in 2025, we're projecting savings for this budget year of $827,000. 2026, $946,000. 2027 a million 2028 279,000 and 2029 170,000 bringing your total gross savings to the county over those uh five years uh at $3.2 million and again that is all net of fees. taking a look at the timeline which is the next section kind of where we are the first and one of the first and most important steps is this first one tonight the introduction of that ordinance and this work session which we're doing tonight we are looking then to have a rating call towards the end of August right now we're looking shooting for the uh week of August 25th and then ultimately have you approve the ordinance at your meeting on August 26 file with DCED at which point we will wait for them to give their final their approval. We will price the bonds um right um around the middle uh to late September. September 23rd is when we're looking to price the bonds. At that time, that's when your actual savings and interest rates will be locked. So, at that point, they will be locked in and then we are looking to close October 15th and the transaction will be completed and with great results for the county. Uh, one thing I would want to point out is we have worked, uh, very diligently with the county administrative staff, um, manager Crocomo, budget and finance, u, Miss

Roselle, and also the solicitor's office over the last six months since we've been engaged to put all of these things, um, and their help has been tremendous in getting us to where we are so that we can move this forward um, and achieve these cost savings for the county. Happy to address any questions that you may have. Mr. Thornton, thank you, Mr. chair, thank you for the presentation and uh that uh you paint a very uh positive financial picture going forward in the next four and a half years or five years. Uh that's great. I just had one question. Um I noticed on page 12, the net savings to the county in column I Yep. total 3.2 million.

And on back on page 10, the net present value savings was 2.4. Is the difference? numbers because you brought the numbers back to present value. That's exactly what it is. So, we take the arbitrage yield on the bonds and we present value those back to today and get the net present value. Okay, great. Thank you. Yep. Miss Stevenson, you had a question? Um, no, no question. But this is amazing. Um, I appreciate the the organization that took place here. This is extremely understandable. Um, and I I really appreciate the dates and the action plan uh to proceed forward. That is that is fabulous. Great work, everyone. And that is amazing. All right. Thank you. Any anything else, Mr. Hos?

Yeah, I thanks, Mr. Chair. I just heard I think it was on the way over here that the Fed's looking at probably dropping rates um next cycle. So, I think this is very an incumbent time to do this and hats off to you and the management together. Thank you, Mr. Sabatino. Uh good evening. Is there a risk that the rates will go up in the next I know Mr. H just said ultimately there's always that market rate movement. So in between now and we print we are going to have that interest rate risk. Um actually when we did this at 2000 uh from July of 30 right now we've seen a slight dip again. Um so they have come down slightly uh but you know they should still remain in this area. Obviously I can never guarantee that but there is that market rate risk you're right.

Thank you. Any other questions council members? Mr. Thornton. And the new rates are locked in on the day of pricing 23rd of September. That's correct. Okay. Thanks. Anything else? All right. Thank you very much. Thank you.

All right. Next up, division reports for July 2025. As always, uh if council has any questions, uh or comments, uh you can text or call me. Uh but uh I believe the division report speaks for itself and I just want to commend the staff for all the work that they do. Thank you. I just have uh one or two things, not even really questions, just more comments. First, I'm a little upset that I wasn't invited to the Kingston Active Adult C Center's Wing Creek Casino Trip. Um I hope I'm invited on the next one. Okay. I might have had free play there. They Now it's going to be gone. They do get upset when John isn't there. They like me there.

They like me. I I apologize. I was my I was on vacation. Um I had fun at the picnic with with all the seniors. Pardon? Yeah. But with John with with with me not there, Brian was able to shine.

Yeah. I I had many requests for dances because John wasn't there. Um, I also just wanted to say uh congratulations and thank you to Allan Stout uh for another successful Rocking the River series. Um, as always, those three concerts were fantastic. Um, I understand that there was, you know, some controversy with that last one, but I think we really, you know, made lemonade out of lemons there. Um, and there was a fantastic crowd for that final night. Um, something I'm very proud of, very proud that Lar County does. And currently we have the Rock in the Mountain. The second part of that series is going on. And I think this Friday is one of the concerts. Um, and looking forward to that as always. And finally, um, yeah,

uh, it had to be hundreds of dollars because I got dunked about 300 times. Go ahead. How many times did Patty you? I I It was very blurry. It was blurry. Go ahead. Do we know Do we know how much? I do not know the exact figure. I think it was 8:40 the first night. I I didn't get six something the the second week. Yeah. Yeah. And most of it was because of John. I was gonna say about 600 of it was me. Yeah.

I was water logged at the end of that night. And uh finally, I just wanted to mention I know that uh we had the moment of silence for corrections officer Connell um earlier, but I I did want to uh just make one statement that I I actually attended uh her viewing her services um this past week and uh I was very impressed with the corrections officer's honor guard. Um it was something that to me was very moving. Um and I was I was really glad that they were there. It's something that I know means a lot to the family. I participate in my fire department's honor guard almost every chance I get because I know how important that is to the family. Um, and they were so professional. Uh, they looked awesome and I I I just I wanted to extend my gratitude personally for that because I know just how impactful their presence there is to not only the family but to the people who knew her and loved her. All right. Um, moving on. Number three, discussion regarding the resolution modifying the lease with Kandu Community Foundation for county owned lands in Butler Township. Um Mr. Gary Lamont with the Canoe Community Foundation approached uh county staff regarding um the addition of a trail, a wellness and inclusive trail at the Furwood Music Camp, which the property is owned by Luzernne County. Um, originally, uh, Furwood Music Camp was started by the Greater Hazelton Philarmonic Society and there was an assignment of the lease, uh, that was signed in August of 2017, um, where the Cano Community Foundation took over that property. Um, but they cannot make any permanent improvements to the property because the county owns it without the county's approval. So, um, I think I did send Sharon the map of the proposed trail. I don't know if there are any questions. I believe Mr. Lamont is on via Zoom as well.

Uh, does this uh affect the farm leases that we just No, no, we just have to iron out exactly, you know, those properties, but those farmers were told um after I spoke with the office of law that they should proceed with planting and everything. Perfect. Thank you. So, yeah, that'll be fine. I apologize. Uh for property located on Route 11, Wyoming A, Wyoming Burrow for people on the Zoom that I accidentally cut off.

This is uh the uh lease that was discussed uh earlier in executive session. Correct. Any questions? Okay, moving on to number five. Discussion regarding the resolution authorizing the county manager to apply for a municipal assistance grant to aid in funding an updated zoning ordinance. Miss Faritch, Mr. Ree, I open the microphone. Um, I have Dan Reese with me. Um, and I'll let you give him a he'll give you a little bit more of the background, but um, the county zoning ordinance needs to be updated and we've talked to DCD. if we apply uh through this program, you know, we can get up to 50% of the cost of that.

Okay? And we currently have an RFP out now. We don't know what the cost is going to be that we're going to ask uh DCED for, but once we figure that out uh through the RFP, then we'll be able to have more figures in place. The last time the zoning ordinance was updated in was in 2021, and there's been some changes uh recently with development patterns throughout the county. So, we just want to make sure that our zoning ordinance accounts for that. All right. Any questions? Two questions, Mr. Chair. Hey, Mr. Ree, thanks for coming. Yeah, of course. So, this is pretty standard practice, isn't DCD typically reimburse 50% for ordinances or misparage if you want to address that as well.

It it depends on the it depends on the program. Yeah. Um but but you know we had initial conversations I think back in May with DCD and they encouraged us to apply you know for the September pot of money because well hopefully they will have a budget passed by then. Um so but again if we don't apply for it this round they do two rounds every year usually the next one would be available March 1st for us to apply for it. So, if we don't apply for September 1st, well, which would be the second because Labor Day is on the 1 this year, but yeah. Um, we would be able to apply next March.

Okay. Very good. Thank you both. Uh, second second and last question is what what areas do you see of our countywide zoning or at least the jurisdictions that we have zoning for? What changes do you see coming down? Currently, we don't have any uh we don't have anything in there for data centers and that's been a huge uh talking point. We're kind of familiar with those.

Yeah. So, we just want to make sure that our zoning ordinance takes that stuff like that into account. There's also some uh initiatives coming from the state for things like um accessory dwelling units on properties. Right now, you can only have one primary residence or one primary structure on a property. uh you're not you can go for zoning uh variance in order to have more properties or more housing on your property. But uh accessory dwelling units allow for smaller almost tiny house or you know uh uh in-law suites to be constructed on the property. So you can have more than one residence technically on your property. And then there there's a few other things that we're looking at too like chickens. I know that's been a huge thing, but right now the minimum size lot that you can have chickens in an agricultural area is five acres. The smallest lot that you can have in an a area is 2 acres. So, we're going to we're trying to we want to bring in a consultant to help us visit those topics. See what other parts of the state have done with that that

No, that that's helpful. I remember the chicken debate, too. That was real fun. Two acres for what type of of zoning that was? Agriculture is five. I thought you said it is five in our zoning ordinance now. But the smallest lot size you can cut out in uh agricultural area is two acres in agriculturally zoned area. Two acres. Okay. Interesting. All right. Very good. You need now currently. Yeah. You need five, but we're going to try shrinking that down. Yeah. Okay. Mr.

There's also I'm sorry. I was just going to say there's some inconsistencies between our within our current zoning ordinance just there's a little bit of contradiction. I can't go into super detail on that now, but we have uh tables in the back that tell you what you can and can't do. And then some of the language in there kind of contradicts what the tables say. So, we want to make sure that those are all ironed out. And there's also a slew of spelling errors in there as well. So, we just want to make sure that those are taken into account. Good evening, Mr. Reese. Um, will you be addressing like solar farms and things like that as well? Solar farms are actually in our current zoning ordinance, but we want to update that. Uh, Attorney Sche has a question.

What about other chicken areas? Because people have chickens in areas that aren't agricultural. That will be visited in this zoning ordinance update. So, we'll have all chicken questions answered. As many as we can possibly do. All right. Thank you. There's one chicken question that I think might not be answered. Why it crossed the road? Yeah. Why it crossed the road? Which came first? Yeah. I'm sorry. Such a terrible. Might my neighbors lose their yard chickens. What municipality do you live in? West W I don't live. They're not my neighbors. They're It's They're mix up with the male all the time. West Wyoming potentially. They're gonna be so upset.

Don't snitch on the guys with the chicken, you know. That is one of the municipalities we do zoning for. So, any other non-chicken related questions?

Okay. I I think Go ahead. And Dan, I don't know much about like the construction of zoning and what that looks like across all of the municipalities, but essentially how we sort of reshape that depending on the municipality and like space and acreage, right? If I might and if I'm in the ballpark, I don't know, the rhetoric is not there. But um it as we kind of update this like this will allow like certain to create more housing in different spaces and make that legally acceptable. That is that is one thing that's coming down from the state currently. You know, historically there have been triplexes and quadplexes available in uh residential areas throughout history. Well, development in the early 20th century, but once zoning came on board, it was single family residents or apartment complexes, right? There really wasn't the availability for that. And the state is actually there is a push in the legislature to have have that added in there, but I want to visit that with this zoning ordinance update as well. Okay, that that sounds amazing. I mean, I was just having a conversation with someone about like, you know, like Wolsberry, for example, like the history of Wilsberry, how redlinining sort of plays dynamics of how we sort of arrange zoning through throughout. So, I'm like, is are these things that are going to be addressed? Are we going to be in depth um you know, seeing what that looks like, how that's either impacted those municipalities, and how we can successfully change that zoning language to be more inclusive? I don't believe we're going to be doing that in this update, but we will be taking a heavy look at the comprehensive plan for the county just to ensure that, you know, we're we're putting development where it's necessary and keeping places uh conserved where that is appropriate.

Thank you. Any other questions? All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Number six, discuss. Sorry. Discussion regarding resolution authorizing the county manager to execute a lease renewal agreement between Lzern County and Dom Enterprises Incorporated.

I'm not sure if anyone is here from the courts or online, but this is uh uh a building that uh our uh domestic relations has been in in the Hazelton area. Uh we've been housed there for uh decades. Uh, and uh, years ago when I was a young lawyer, I I used to practice uh, in that building. Uh, and it was actually the safest building in the county uh, years ago and it still may be, but uh, it's a very good location uh, parking uh, and we've been there forever.

All right, thank you. Any questions? There's nobody on on the Zoom, by the way. Um, all right. All right, moving on. Number seven, discussion regarding the Water Street Bridge. Our special guests, please. Michelle and Tom, please come to the podium. There we go. I think we're good.

Just the this has been a collaborative effort uh with between the the the county uh and uh West Pittston and Pittston. Uh we want something more uh than just a river crossing. Uh we really uh we want a landmark uh of artistry uh that represents uh the strength and the hope uh of Lousern County. So Michelle, great.

Thank you everybody. I am Michelle Dempsey. I'm president of DXMC Architecture. I'm also here tonight with my colleague Corey Trailberg. and it um it has been an honor and we are so grateful to have had the opportunity to collaborate with your communities on this firefighters memorial bridge. When we started the project, the first thing we did was listened and we had a visioning meeting and at that visioning meeting we heard what your vision was because that's what we're here to interpret. And the very first thing we heard was the purpose of this bridge among many other things. But one very important purpose is to honor the fallen firefighters, one from each community who gave their lives in service to these communities back in 1993, John Lombardo and Leonard and Silaka II. So that was front and center through this entire design process. Then we heard we want the bridge to be uplifting. We want it to show strength and resilience. We want it to be a a symbol of unification. We want it to be beautiful. We want it to be a destination, a place that we can have layered experiences, festivals, music, um different stories as you cross it. And we wanted to bring all of that into the fold. And we heard we want to be wowed and we want to create a destination. So with all that, I think the best way to introduce the bridge design is to play the video. And after the video, we'll put up some slides and and answer um and speak to a few more things. But Harry, if you could play the video, I'd appreciate that. It's a couple minutes long. Um Yep.

the We're not seeing it yet.

That's okay. That's it. Thank you. The Bridge of the Brave, an esplanade of hope and remembrance, gracefully spans the river, uniting two communities bound by shared resilience. Modern and deeply symbolic, its design reflects strength and pride. The bridge's undulating form mirrors the river below, evoking the flow of water and the arc of a firefighter's hose, a powerful symbol of life-giving and life-saving force. Beneath vertical metal sentinels hint at the flickering of flames and the raw, jagged resonance of fire, embodying both comfort and danger. At the entrance, a bold bridge of the brave sign and exhibit panels honor two fallen firefighters, one from each community, John Lombardo and Leonard and Salco II, sharing their story of courage and sacrifice. The crossing invites deeper discovery through panels rhythmically spaced along the path. Each celebrating individuals who built and protected their communities connecting past, present, and future. More than a bridge, it is a gathering place. A broad prominade invites art walks, festivals, and pop-up events, transforming it into a vibrant community space. Each crossing feels different. Mornings bring dabbled light and optimism, while twilight signals reflection. By day, shifting shadows move with the sun in season. By night, the bridge transforms into a canvas of light, casting brilliant reflections on the water. Brief evening illuminations ripple like water, flicker like fire, and then settle into a steady glow. A beacon of strength and resilience for all to witness.

Thank you. If you could turn to the slides now, Harry. Thanks. So, that is the concept. We have some slides here just to speak to some of the feedback we've heard so far. Um, and just make sure we are are hitting everybody's concerns. Um, obviously the name it Bridge of the Brave can be uh it was just something we thought was catchy, emotive, uh, memorable, but we could be Bridge of the Brave, uh, firefighters memorial bridge. It could just be firefighters memorial bridge. That's up to your communities to decide. Um, there was some concern about the sentinels at the bottom being too low, but we've worked with the engineers and with PennDOT, and that's that's if they're going to be high enough and everything there is is good to go. I did want to note because I don't know if it was very clear in the um in the video that the actual pattern of the sort of um you know up and down of the sentinels that sort of jagged pattern was created by overlaying um the actual sound of of fire and um and then obviously the top represents the water and the flow of the firefighter's hose. Um some other feedback if you could flip now um Harry to the next slide. Um so again this is on one side. This is the Pittston entrance. We will show a concept of the West Piston West Pittston entrance as well. Um it's later in the deck. Uh it's more conceptual uh because we didn't have the information on the levies yet. So we're not 100% sure how to u express that. Um next slide. We do want to point out that you know as you cross this there can be storytelling that can be about each of the communities so that as you cross um these uh these panels can can tell stories about the firefighters can tell stories about brave people in the communities about your communities. So

again, it's those layered experiences and we the barriers are quite tall for the for the cars, right? Um it is a bridge and it does have important safety reasons for being at that height. Um so for kids, we have the panels sort of at a lower, you know, there's like a lower level for kids and then a higher level for adults. So because they only get to see the river at the openings at the outlooks. Um so they get an experience as they cross too and it could be a learning uh opportunity as well. Next slide. And then at night you can see it can light up. Again the lighting we have um talked to and have gotten a proposal from a lighting consultant. This could be something when we talk about creating a destination and and having something that really brings people here from the community. You can imagine or from all around to come see. You could imagine at maybe at 9:00 every night there's a light show. Um, these would be LED and really it's how far, you know, I think we could do something really amazing within a reasonable budget. Um, but I think this, you know, you could imagine the lights flowing on the top, flickering on the bottom, and having it be something different for festivals and different times of years to celebrate, you know, what's going on in in each community and in the area. Next. And next slide. And this is the sketch of the the West Pittston side, which is a little bit more of a residential and historic community. So, the entrance from that side will be a little bit more traditional, maybe some limestone. But you can see there um on on each of the sides, those are the medallions from the firefighters helmets that will celebrate John Lombardo and Leonard and Salco. Um, and so it'll be a beautiful transition from the historic neighborhood to this sort of very forward thinking and beautiful expression of today, tomorrow, and what's to come. So, that's the that's the design for the firefighters

um memorial bridge. And happy to take any comments at this time. Any questions from council members? I just want to uh Oh, Miss Stevenson, you go first. Go ahead. No questions. Um, I think this is beautiful. The intentionality behind every layer of this constructed bridge image is amazing. You must be extremely good at what you do. Um uh this like this is this is really amazing. So thank you for showing us the full vision. That was extraordinary.

Thank you so much. And like every design, you know, everybody all of us with gifts, it's always they're better with collaboration. Um, and this is a a great collaborative effort with your communities and with my team and um with Pendot and with Tom. So, uh, thank you so much. Any other comments, Mr. Thornton? Could you get this bridge built in six months from now? That's a question for Tom. No, I'm just kidding. It's been closed since August of 21. [Laughter] Yeah, Miss Smith,

thank you. I just wanted to reiterate and um echo what Councilwoman Stevenson said. Truly, it's beautiful. I would be so proud to have this bridge in our area. I hope we can get it done quickly, but well done well. Um and thank you for all your work. It's truly stunning. Oh,

thank you. It's been a pleasure. Anybody else? Um I I just wanted to say that I have two things. First, architecturally, I think the bridge is and I know I first um it's something that will definitely complement the skyline of Greater Pittston. Um, and and that was one of the concerns that I had when we embarked upon this bridge project, that we wouldn't just have another utilitarian concrete slab going over the Suscuana River to replace something that was such an integral part of Pitts and West Pittston for the last 110 years. Um, so to see that is amazing. um to see that it kind of hearkens back a little bit to what the previous bridge looked like. Even the idea of having lights on the bridge, really, really amazing. And I apologize, but namesake of one of the firefighters who passed away. I just want to say thank you because it is truly an amazing tribute. And when I was running for county council in I didn't know that this bridge was going to close. I didn't know that um any of this was going to happen while I was here. Um and you know, truthfully, I wish it didn't, but I'm so proud to be able to see what this bridge will be. Thank you.

That means everything. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. Number eight, discussion regarding the resolution approving the financing by redevelopment authority of Luzern County of sorry of county of Lacawana of certain projects for the benefit of dascese of Scranton Catholic school system incorporated the Pennsylvania not for-profit corporations serving the public.

Good evening everybody. I'm Brian Kalonsky with the law firm of Stevens and Lee and we are bond council to the Catholic school system in this financing. What they're trying to do is make improvements to 12 of their schools across northeast Pennsylvania, including five in Luzern County. As you've seen in the past for these types of financing, one of the tax code requirements is that there we hold a public hearing and that every municipality where a part of the project is located has to approve that ter hearing. Uh there's no obligation on the county. That form of the resolution that we've provided is very similar to what you've seen before for these types of financings. The question I have tonight though is obviously we can't be on the the next council's agenda. We would look to be on the ninth agenda for the actual resolution because we have to have that taffer hearing in between now and that and the approval of that. But the question we had is we've asked all of the five municipalities just to make things easier on the dascese you know least time consuming least expensive. Can we have a central tepher hearing in Lacawana County where the authority is based or do we want to have do each municipalities want to have their own teer hearing located in their county? Uh we've asked the other ones. Um we've gotten answers from all of them. We wanted to present it to council tonight though of can we have that central taffer hearing? Would you like to have one in the county office or in the county courthouse? It's really up to you. We're happy to do it. It's really just a matter of we would advertise in the county obviously. So everybody would know that the hearing is going on. It would list the projects and you've seen a draft of that ter notice. Uh but we're just trying to make it as you know as easy on the municipality as we can and make sure that everybody's comfortable with the approach. That's the only thing the only direction we need tonight. One to answer any questions that you may have on the projects but the direction of how do you want us to handle the public hearing on behalf of Luzern County here or is it okay if we do it centrally in Lacwan County?

Thank you. Uh, manager Crocom, I don't know if you wanted to comment on that. Do you have a preference? I I personally don't have an issue with it just being in Lacawana County if this is just essentially a I I don't uh have a preference, but uh other than other than that, we're fun in Missouri County. This has been uh and as you know from these very rare for anybody to attend these. They're very, you know, it's a tax code requirement that we have, right? So, it's but we're happy to have it here. It's we're going to advertise in all five municipalities. Uh so it's really just a matter of of your direction. I have no objection. I personally don't. If anybody does, please speak up. Okay. Mr. Thornton.

Thank you. Just curious uh what what is the uh scope of projects? Is it just uh renovating the schools or what? It is there's the five schools in Luzern County and most of it consists of roof repairs, new roofs, windows, there's a boiler that's needed in one, some site work. So, no new buildings or expansions. It's really just updates to those facilities. And they're doing that all across their 12, you know, 12 facilities in in Northeast Pennsylvania. Thank you. All right. Anything else? Oh. Uh, Attorney Sche Brian, do you need, if council were to agree to that, do you need a resolution saying?

No, not really. I just wanted to have that direction and have the conversation. Obviously, we'll be back for the approval of the resolution itself, but I didn't want to have a hearing without talking to, you know, council. And we've done that in the other municipalities as well.

I Yeah, I think you have your answer. Obviously, we can't like deliberate in this in this session, but I I think you you pretty much fine. Thank you very much. What we will do, as I'd mentioned, you'll see an ad in the newspaper with that taffer hearing. We'll provide the affidavit of publication when we send in the final paperwork along with the transcript. Did you know did anybody appear and what did they have to say? And we'll get all that ready. The resolution is going to look very much like it is right now. We're just going to fill fill in the date of the ter hearing, but we'll get that back so you could have it on your your voting session for September 9th. Thank you. Thank you everybody. Have a nice evening. All right. Finally, number nine, uh, a discussion regarding a moratorum on any future lura south of the power plant.

Yes. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for entertaining that. So, um, folks, we had the infrastructure committee. We met earlier in the spring and the summer. We brought the uh the alert schedule to a whole council vote, which was then tabled. And now it's been six weeks and we've had no forward momentum on this. I really appreciate Mr. Ola, bring this forward because this is in the public interest. We've got that situation down in South County. It's affecting a lot of people's livelihoods and quality of life down there in South County. And um I think council needs to act in order to show the people that we are fighting for them and that we think unchecked development is not necessarily the best idea. I don't think anybody here is against development per se, but there's a lot of appropriate ways that we can examine that it seems to me that it's not being done. So therefore, that being said, I'd like to have us on the next voting session vote on what Mr. Zolas suggested to more have a moratorium on lertas south of of the plant and um follow through on the potential to um cancel out previous luras that enabled this kind of unchecked development to happen. And so um like to have the discussion on that.

Um Miss Stevenson, did you have something that you want to say? Just to confirm um what were Mr. Zoa's two requests that he made during his comment? The first one was the moratorum on future luras south of the Suscuana power plant and the second one was rescending any previous leras south of the Suscuana power plant. Is that correct Mr. Zola? Suspending. Suspending. Okay. Is that where the new AI is supposedly going by? Yeah. Okay. There's um one by the power plant that's already that's that's going forward, but the one up in um top of the 80s there. That's the one that we have we've approved that learned. Okay. Thank you,

Mr. Sabatino. Mr. Sche, can we actually suspend Alerta?

Not without getting sued, in my research about it as well. Unfortunately, we really can't suspend a lurer that we've already approved. Okay. I mean, I wouldn't entertain the suspension, but I would like the moratorum to be placed on the next voting session as well.

Is this I mean, I'd like some specificity on this. Certainly, you can bring anything you want to the voting session. Um, is this moratorum going to be on any LERA or will it be on lertas that will be similar to ones that involve data centers, things like that? um because I think that we're talking about specific issues here and and I know everybody on this council has opinions about uh tax abatements, luras, the lura schedule um was an exercise in that and in fact if I can note um data centers and technology would have gotten the most lucrative of the tax abatements in that in that current schedule. So um I'm not really sure what the passage of that would have necessarily done to uh alleviate the concerns of the residents at this moment. So what's is there some specificity to this or will it just be a blanket um any LERA south of the power plant?

Well, we the committee tried to get specific and that was just put down. So perhaps this is the best approach to take have a more blanket approach, but I'll leave that to my colleagues to really hash that out. That's something that all 11 of us have to come to consensus on. So um I don't know. Well, is it is it data centers that will rely on that power line that particular power

because my under very limited understanding uh of any kind of potential uh AI data centers in uh at least the Salem Township uh areas that they will not need to use uh the those PPL power lines, We want to it it's the power lines that uh are at issue. Am I You want me to come over? Yeah. I I mean I question

Yeah, we we'd like to, you know, keep this discussion as as brief as possible. We're happy to have your comments. Ramilda. Um I'm not sure where that information is coming from because uh we haven't been able to get any information as far as who exactly in the South Industrial Park and in Sugarloaf is using that power. North Point Development told me themselves that they will be using some of the power from that 500 KV line, not all of it. Now there's also rumor that can do needs some of it and Sugarloaf now has proposed two data centers which that 500 KV line directly lines up next to these data centers and other industry in Humboldt are using this 500 KV line. It is only 12 miles long, which is very, very, very unusual. 500 KV lines usually travel for hundreds of miles, not 12 miles. So, there's a whole bunch of energy going right there. This line directly feeds these billion dollar corporations. And just so you know, average to large data centers of dollars annually net profit, right? These are big hitters. We're not trying to stop the power from getting to them. We want the power to get there. We have proposed multiple very reasonable solutions to ppl as how they could get that power there without

destroying lives and putting people's lives and children and grandchildren in grave danger. That's how serious this is. And many of you have been to my property. You know what I'm talking about. To overlook this would be criminal. those factories and those data centers are using that power and there's no ifands or buts about it. And if they're saying they're not, have them put it in writing because it's a lie. It's a boldface lie. Okay. Um I just couple people have their are have questions. Uh Mr. Wovich has his hand up. Go ahead, Greg.

Uh yes, this is more of a question for Mr. Sche. Uh could we add language to any new Lerta saying that if we were to per say were to use a power line of that size we could void lura? Sure. Normally

no but normally they produce the letter resolutions and we approve them. So we could ask a different language to be in there. What I would say is, and I've probably said it here before, I don't get a vote, but there going to be companies that want to come to Luzern County. Our state, according to the governor, is very interested in trying to uh become a state where we have these businesses come in and we develop these kind of data centers. We don't have to have any in Missouri County. That's up to county council. But if we put a moratorum on something, what that's going to do is stop business from wanting to come to Luzern County. We'll be known as a place that does not want to have business here. And if that's what you want to do, that's up to you. Vote. Um, but we're talking about also an easement that exists. So we may stop a lucrative business development in Lzern County and then find out that PPNL um uses their easement and they put in the line anyway. Now I I I suppose the plan is that if we have a moratorum on it and we don't allow lurers anymore, then there'll be no businesses coming here. And if there's no businesses coming here, then there'll be no reason for PPNL to put the line in. Well, that doesn't really answer my question. My question was is it would if we would enact Alerta, it would only if they were to use any of the businesses that they incorporated into their plan or whatever later on down the line, even if it's speculative, if they were to ever use that kind of line, it would void the the the lura basically.

I I don't think I mean, me personally, Greg, this is just my opinion. I I don't think that the issue necessarily is the power line. I think that the issue Mr. all if I'm if I'm speaking incorrectly, please correct me. But I think that the issue is where the power line is, right? That that is the issue. Yeah. Here's the thing. No, I get that. I get I get I get that that's the issue, but this would prevent them from wanting to bring power lines because there'd be nobody to use them. I mean, I I Okay. I mean, Mr. Sche, do you do is that something is that language that we can add into alert?

I'm sure we can. That's what I was trying to explain, though. If you if you make that public and you put in that kind of language or say that that's what you're going to propose, then the businesses won't come here, right? If they if they need the power to be there and you have developers, the way the way it works is the developer usually asks us for the lura. They may have an idea who their tenants are going to be, but then the lera would be so cumbersome that they would have to say that that they're not going to use that power line. But if there's a power line coming through that's speeding power to their development, how are they not going to use the power? How is anybody going to sign how are they going to sign any tenants that aren't allowed to use the power?

All right. Uh Mr. Lascavage then um then Mr. Sabatino then Miss Smith.

So I all the stuff about these power lines people I think they really need to do their homework because if you read up on the infrastructure in this country it's poor at best. It's failing miserably throughout the country. So, these bigger power lines are needed. And actually, I had a situation where one of these poles were put right in the driveway of my sister's house down in Skookulo County. And she had asked, "Could you move it here or there?" Nope. I have the right away. But they did indicate that these power lines they're putting in aren't for today. they're for the next 50 years, which is understandable because if you go back to a 50 amp service in a house, you wouldn't turn around and buy a house today with 50 amp service, right? So, as the energy, which everybody enjoys for central air and every appliance in their house and all these convenience of Siri plugged in and every everything that we have today, that all comes at a cost and the cost is more energy. So my question is, do they have the right away these properties you're talking about coming through?

Yeah, I want to explain that. I was just waiting till you guys were done. So no, they don't. So that that's incorrect. Um, what they have is they have a century old ride ofway that's too small for this project, right? That is why they're using the threat of eminent domain. If they had a rideway, they don't need our permission. They would just go ahead and do it. Okay. But they don't. They need an extension on the ride ofways that were there. You have to remember something in the early 1900s when people didn't have electricity in their homes and Sugarloaf Nesapec Valley had a scattered house here and there. That's when this that's when that original line was put in. And they were very small wooden poles. Not a big deal. Okay. Now what they want to do oh well let's say as things evolved houses are now very densely populated along this whole proposed route. So you have houses all over now not just a couple scattered farmhouses. And where before they they had the little wooden poles now they want to put these massive the the base diameter on these things like between those desk. That's about how big it is. And the tower up 240 ft tall with beacons on top, right? And so just envision anyone put yourself in our shoes and picture your yard looking out your front window, your side window, your back window, and and and looking at this thing. Not to mention the electromagnetic fields. And we had a scientist actually prove this last week on a 500 KV line. His meter read, his meter got a signal 250

yards in each direction, not feet, two and a half football fields. He was still getting a reading. And they want to put these things right next to our house. So what this does, these electromagnetic fields, it's like an MRI. It it just drives us. It makes all your cells in your body jump all over the place. And the MRI is okay cuz it's quick. But when you're exposed to this stuff 24/7, not to mention, if you ever looked at PPL's contract that they want people to sign, it's the most one-sided agreement you've ever seen. You lose complete rights to your property. They could enter your property anywhere. They could build any structure they want on their on if they get their rideway. They could build any structure they want. They want to put up a maintenance building. They want to do whatever they want. They will not be restricted in their enjoyment. It says it clearly. They want to they want to stage 20 bucket trucks along that rideway through your property. They could do it. They will not be restricted in their enjoyment. This thing is criminal. Lzernne County taxpayers need your help. We need your help. This thing is really bad. And and picture this, too. Sure, some of you have grandkids. Some of you have kids. So what they intend to do is put a 200 foot wide strip through our properties, remove the grass and put gravel, install their poles and then their lines has to be maintained. How do they maintain that? Herbicides. So in my particular circumstance, my

daughter's house, it's you guys, some of you saw it. It's right on the basketball court of my daughter's house. It's where my grandsons play. So, what are we supposed to do when they come to spray? And they come without notice, by the way. They come to spray those herbicides. It's a big area. They don't use little hoses. These things are big. They start spraying this stuff. We supposed to gather up our kids, our grandkids, and run. It's It's just unheard of. There there is a better way, multiple better ways for them to get this electricity to these to these places. And the purpose of freezing and and suspending the luras is this. These are billion dollar corporations. And let's not for forget Pennsylvania Power and Light is a for-profit company. They are not a government entity. Last 12 months, their net profit was a billion dollar. A billion. And they don't need LEDs. What they need to do is they need all these corporations, these data centers. You want to come, come. Not against data centers. Well, we got to do it the right way.

I didn't say that. I was just saying how much profit they made, right?

So, but the purpose of the alert is like with the data centers and so forth. um those folks need to because it's become it's coming down to a cost and convenience issue for PPL. Refurbishing a line that's already in place will cost more money than what they're proposing to do. So, it's time for these billion-dollar corporations to work with PPL and get some money together to take the alternate route. That's all we're asking for is for them to use the alternate route.

Okay. Mr. Savvatino, did you have a comment you wanted to make before? I apologize. Uh, have you approached the school districts and the local municipalities to ask for the same moratorium? Not yet. Well, generally, we started here. Generally speaking, you're going in the reverse order of what we normally do. So, I would also ask that you try and get the school district and local municipalities. We are absolutely going to do that. Yes. And and by the way, those are the more lucrative uh taxments that you get, especially from the school district as I'm sure you know. Um so that's I mean that that would be the make more of the make or break for them than us. We're the the last, you know, peg in the in the

It's still It's still important though. And don't forget some of the folks involved in this might be outside of the Hazelton area school district. Mhm. Right. Okay. But they are in Larern County, right? Um m Mr. Hos, then Mr. Oh, uh Miss Smith, did you have something you wanted to say? Just briefly. I apologize. That's okay. Just briefly. Um I unfortunately in looking through this, I don't there's not much I think that we can do. However, especially given that PPNL is the company and they're the ones putting this line together, I know that you've given them alternate roots. Correct? You've given them alternate. We have. Yes.

Perhaps the best thing, and this may sound a little underwhelming, but perhaps the best thing we can do is ask PPNL to come to a meeting and talk to them about the fact that this is the community that they are working in. you have very much upset your community members. You may need things from us one day. We're asking you to please listen, of course, more eloquently, but I think that's really one of the only things that we can do, but I will echo uh Councilman Sabatino, and you need to get to the school and the municipals first. Yeah. To that point though, Joanna, um I appreciate the the intention, but it will be fruitless. I promise you.

Schools in the municipal, I'm meeting with PPL and asking them to do anything other than what they're proposing. It will be completely fruitless. We've had every every politician up and down the ladder at it. Well, I'm interested to see what Representative Walsh mentioned that he's going to have the off the state office of uh consumer affairs come in. I'm interested to see how that goes.

But were you What were you just because I I maybe I don't completely understand. You were saying that would be the only thing you could do. What does that mean? Well, beside well, you had asked for us to um possibly put a moratorum on any LERA, which while I understand your point, I also understand uh attorney Sch's point in and I think the point that the county manager was making in that this isn't all Luras, not necessarily all Luras will be using this line. Um

well, we don't know that. We don't know that. We don't know. problem alert is I mean that was one of the problems with the schedule was that they're building to spec right spec means speculation which means they don't really know what their tenants going to be um and then in terms of your ask of us to suspend any luras that we've given we can't legally do that well my argument with that is I feel that the county was given I the proper information I agree I feel like we were duped Um, but I don't necessarily think that that means Sorry, but yes,

I don't think they were given the proper information. Number one, so leaving information out is as bad as lying about it, right? And I don't think I think all of you acted in good judgment. I don't put any of that on any of you guys. I think you all did what you thought was right, but I don't think you were given the right tools as to what to ask. and and by virtue of them leaving out so much stuff that they should have told you, I think that is an argument. And again, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm thinking that's an argument. Okay, that's my point. M uh Mr. Hos, yeah, could thank you, sir.

Yeah, thanks for coming again, Mr. Z. And we we really want to support you in the community. I think everybody is on the same page with that component at least. And this is what's so hard about this is because I I'm pretty zealous about this in these lardas, you know, I'm doing fears and I I I keep on thinking I'm I'm coming across like I'm anti-development or anti- energy or anti- infrastructure and it's not about that. It's just about doing it the correct manner that's going to impact the the community in the in the least in the least way, right? We want to maintain the quality of life best we can here. PPNL and and um energy companies as such get paid by the transmission of the power. They don't get paid on the generation because we had a discussion on the energy supply here with energy brokers here in Lerern County a few weeks ago uh maybe months ago. And it is what drives that th that that construction of those lines are potential customers. So I agree with you 100% there, Mr. Zola. If this council can act and perhaps, you know, the the stick and you want this customer base, can we slow that down or at least make that in a manner that that makes more sense developmentally speaking um and just this unchecked development that we have here, which is why I would support a moratorum on future alert because perhaps that would bring PPNL to the table. I don't think it's going to happen because again their profit motive is is the transmission of it and they make lines and that's how they make their their money.

And again I I want to emphasize that

by no means are we attempting to we want everyone to make money. We want everyone to be profitable. We want the community to thrive, right? We just it's being rushed right now and we just want it to be done intelligently and we have I want everyone to know we have taken every amicable approach to PPL regarding this line and they have not listened at all. They have not budged at all. So, the only way to make things happen and the way that all of you could help the the taxpayers of this community because remember it's going to be very few that benefit from this line. Very few about five different entities that will benefit but many citizens taxpayers will suffer. Right? So, the only way to get anyone's attention anymore in this world is money. So, if the lures aren't available, it's going to bring them to the table and it's going to have them work together as a team to resolve this matter and and that's why we need your help. We There's just, you know what I mean,

Mr. Thornton?

Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I gonna have to take a break soon. I didn't go on a break. I didn't take a break when we had a break, but uh anyway, I I just want to say for the record, I I am very I love the environment. very much against uh ruining the environment and all that and that I I really feel for all of you people that part of the county that are experiencing this and uh I hate to see that happen. Um and having said that, I I was listening to what you said earlier, Mr. Zola, and um you know, one thing I heard you say is, you know, these these big entities coming here, these big corporations or billion-dollar corporations, and you said they they don't need Lordis. They they they're so profitable that you know they don't need lur as I heard you say.

So now I'm wondering why why would we put a moratorum on lures if they don't even need them anyway. They're going to build anyway. So what would be the purpose of our moratorum on lures other than be appear punitive? That's all. Well my my point was I'll just give you an example. So the Hazelton area school district provided Alerta for North Point Development for data center. So they're getting a 10-year tax abatement.

And then they raised the school taxes 5.9%. The max to senior citizens, the working families. Is that right? I don't think it's right. No. What I'm saying is uh what would be the purpose of a moratorum on lur is if they don't need alert and they're going to build it anyway. Well, put put your mic on. No, put your mic on.

I was just saying your mic on the developers. Yeah, I agree. The driving force behind the Without the developer, nothing happens. A lot of times, a lot of times they're spec they're spec. Yeah. Yeah. Which makes it even worse to give to give alert on a on a business you don't even know makes it even worse. But that's my opinion. Okay. Any other council members have any

Well, the last thing I'd like to say, Mr. Sure, if I could, I'd like to see this on the next agenda and we can certainly carry this on at that point, but every day that goes by, we're going to see more unchecked development that happens. And I think we really need to put our heads together to see to to determine what kind of loser county we want to see in 2030 years. I mean, I listened to when Mr. Augustine came to visit, I listened to the tapes. He made me disappear for the meeting, but I I still listened. And it's the plan is to turn this into an industrial zone. It's it's a it it I hate to use the word assault, but I just threw it out there. It's it's an assault on the quality of life here for especially for people in South County and Mr. Zolola is on the front lines. So again, what kind of development do we want to have? I would like to see plan development. I don't want to just see a billion structures popping up on either side of the highway, clogging up our highways there, adding to to the the cost of running our governments and getting away with taxes for 10 years. You know, it's not unreasonable. I keep on bringing this up, but it it it seems like we we we don't move this ball. We we are reactive. We're not proactive. And we've got we've got designs on our area that we're just unwilling participants. We just give away the tax abatement for 10 years. And I think the schedule I would like to see that on the agenda. I think we need to move that forward. It's time. And let's take a council vote and move it forward. Okay? And if need be, I would suggest the moratorum as well. We've got to see what stick is going to work, what carrot's going to work. I I I don't even mind PPNL. I'm glad they're there. I'm glad we have energy. I like energy. I like my AC like Mr. Luscavage said. So, I'm not about that. But again, I I just want to be very clear because I think we're we're talking past each other. Again, we've got to meet some kind of middle ground that protects people's quality of life, that secures it for our grandkids future, that preserves Lutheran County, which is a very unique place. And I you're probably sick of me telling about this, but I don't want to be the Lehi Valley. I don't think Most of you want to be the Lehigh Valley here.

I think with, you know, Go ahead, Patt. And I think it we have to really worry about the environment because that that's one thing that we're really forgetting about. May we could due diligence put in when we give out any kind of thing that they have some kind of study needs to be done because just that spraying alone is not only hurting your your family, but untold amounts of animals. Yes.

You know, and just wrecking that the virgin area that you're talking about is is almost criminal in its own self. Not even the people there, just the animals that live there. And none of that is even being considered. I mean, there's so many animals that are getting extinct and then we're just sitting there watching and not even caring. I think we should maybe add something to whenever we give out any kind of money. What kind of environmental study did you do to to help our area instead of just giving money hand and fist? Oh, yeah. I I don't know that that's just me. It's just

Well, Patty, like what you're talking about that job course site that that patch of land, I think we took a good stand about that. We said we value green space there in in that part of the township, right, Jim? their backyard. And I think we like that. A lot of of neighbors came out here and they they communicate that to us. Hey, we like the status quo. We don't want to see 500 housing tracks pop up here. And so I say put it on the agenda. If any I'm willing to debate it. I'm willing to hear people out. Change my mind. Truly change my mind. I'm I'm happy to do that. But let's debate it and let's take some definitive action because we're wasting time. Or maybe we could add things to it.

Add or subtract, you know, whatever whatever the best path is. But again, I'm I'm not into I I'm not wast I don't want here to waste somebody's time just to take a a broad brush and sweep it away or or or allow it in here. Let's really exercise some leadership collectively. Let's do it. Mr. Hos, are you are you going to send that to the office of law to have it put on the agenda? We'll I'll put it on the agenda for the next I'll do it tomorrow. Mr. Chair, can I Yep. I mean, one one chair, Mr. Chair, it's already existing. We already have the schedule. We never voted on that. That needs to come out. That's a component. Would you like me to do it separately? Would you like me to do three separate ones or together? What's What's your separate?

I think it should be separate because these are all different issues and I'm I'm not comfortable voting on them as a block and honestly I'm not comfortable talking about them all together because they're getting mixed up and it's confusing people and making them angry at the wrong things. No, absolutely. And that's why I want to have this definitive discussion and and let's talk it out. Again, I think what Mr. Mr. um Augustine said, I I heard a lot of good discussion, but it was two camps. It seems like you're in one camp or the other and there's no middle ground. So, let's let's find the middle ground. All right, Mr. Perry.

Uh, Mr. Zola, I mean, I know John long a long long time and I would sympathize with you. If I was in your shoot, I'd be doing exactly the same thing, doing everything we possibly can. Uh, but the bottom line is, and I think Harry Harry's Harry uh hit it, how do we stop PPNL? And PPNL put it in. No matter what we do, PPNL could still can do what what it wants to do. And I don't have an answer to that. I I wish I did. Uh but I don't know if we could resend what we did, what we passed already. North Point already has there. We're going to get sued for that. We are going to get sued. I I don't know what that means. I don't know how much the counties get sued for. We'd have to have that discussion. We we'd have to really look into that. But again is how do we stop PPL from doing exactly what they want to do and and ruining Mr. Mark you'd like to make

question if you are going to use the powers of doain you have to get Certificate of public hearing and allows you notific.

Yeah.

So, so that is critical element for those have concerns about are both engineering, environmental and legal expertise on the issue viable alternative groups. So, so that's sort of like if the issue is There's a there's future powers whether they're a lot higher because of data centers but there's a lot of there's a lot of existing businesses in that area that have nothing to do with data and have big power because they're a warehouse but there are power needs some of data centers are orders of magnitude higher traditional but there's this process of proving that the public right of the property owned

right I um I could I could speak to that for a second I did speak to a member of the of the PUC and they told me that that would be the the next logical step for the uh for the residents and for any other interested party is to just keep an eye out for when that process begins. Mr. Zolola, you said that that paperwork hasn't been filed yet, I guess, through the through

Okay, so we're getting a little off track here. So, we're fully aware of of the PUC. Okay. PPL has not filed with the PUC yet. Our chances at PUC are like this. very small, very, very small. And it's going to cost a whole bunch of money. Money that people don't have when you're going against a company like Pennsylvania Power and Light. Okay? So, what we're asking is for our elected officials, our elected officials to support us and help us in our cause because what we're trying to do is resolve this amicably with PPL. If if you guys help us and we get some other people to help us, it is going to bring all of the powers to be to the table and they're going to have discussion and try to resolve this so that PPL could file um the alternative at the PUC as opposed to the preferred. That is our whole goal. Um, so I mean that that is pretty much it. I mean I, you know, what he said is true. Not saying anything he didn't say was true. We know all of this. Um, but the bottom line is that is not where we want this to go and we need our elected officials to help us.

Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr. Council members. Anything else? The only thing I'm going to say, Mr. I'm going to I'm going to submit that to the office of law. But if if I could see um any precedence we have we we can see in case law about entities who tried to take back uh Alerta if we could see that attorney scheme that would be helpful. And um what was the other component I was thinking of? I I would like to see it. I would like to see did they prevail? Did they not prevail? What were the nuances of that? if we could um do that because I think that will help us uh examine our options even though I know Miss Prince Smith you did some research and was hard hardressed to find something and then um what's the other component and I I guess I'll circle back on that one what the other one is but okay in the interest of time.

Yep. Thanks. All right. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Thank you for your time everyone. Appreciate it very much. Is there a motion to adjurnn? Oh wait hold on a second. Is there public comment session? Hold on. Anybody? Anybody on the Zoom? All right. Is there a motion to adjurnn? Second. All in favor? I opposed. Meetings adjourned. Thank you.