Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

So, good afternoon uh ladies and gentlemen. It is um Wednesday, February 4th, and it is 12:00 and I am calling the uh Athens City Planning Commission meeting to order. Uh the first order of business is uh establishing a quorum and as I look to my left and my right all um all committee members are present and so we do have a quorum and can proceed with taking action today if necessary. Um the the next item on the agenda is the disposition of the minutes from February 4th. All commissioners, I believe, have those minutes in hand. And um I look um to uh either some any comments concerning any uh corrections or additions um as well as look for a motion to accept these minutes.

Yes. Sent one small correction. Okay. For Felwood, okay, to Monica. So she has that to correct. Okay. Okay. And I think there is one typo in the um housing the recovery housing. It just needs to say recover rather than or recovery rather than recover on page 12. So those two corrections have been sent now. Okay. Any other corre corrections or comments regarding the minutes? Hearing none. Well, I'll uh entertain a motion. I I move to accept the minutes as amended. Okay. Is there a second?

I'll second. Second. And is there any other discussion regarding those? Hearing none. All in favor say I. I.

Any opposed? Any abstensions? Okay, they they're approved. Um, so I would ask that anybody who uh may uh choose to speak today raise their right hand and say I do after I ask them to raise your right hand and and I will ask you to uh tell me that you will uh any information that you provide this commission will be the truth to the best of your knowledge. Thank you. Okay, we have I well I make sure I I believe we have no cases on the agenda for today. We have one communication to deal with and it's a a communication or information we received at the uh February 4th meeting regarding um residential care facilities and recovery housing. Um we have draft language that we want to discuss today. So, I'll open it to uh well, first of all, um I guess I'll allow um Miss Rap Lee to uh recuse herself if she uh feels.

Yes, as per usual on this matter, I'll recuse myself, but thank you very much. Thank you very much. Um so, I'll open it up to any discussion here amongst Well, let me first um turn it over to Mr. rigs who will uh maybe enlighten us on exactly what he's added to the um to to the to the to the code, what what language changes he's added to the code.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um u members of the committee, um what I did was I took the recommendations of the discussions that we had at the last meeting and I tried to turn that into a uh codified to meet our codified ordinances. I actually modified title 23 and I believe 29 as well to um to account for this. And um I I uh the information in your packet I've had some comments that are located um my comments uh just kind of discussing some of the uh proposed changes that we've made. There are some um there are some um decisions that we have to make. I mean um if you want to if you want to move forward on this um if you I could talk about the the changes in the comments if you like or if you could just discuss those either one's fine.

Well well don't you go ahead and uh go over your comments. So what I did was I uh in chapter 2304 permitted uses 23041 uh single family residential zone an R1 zone the uh we already had a residential care facility is number six of those principally permitted uses. I modified that a little bit and added a density control on those so that no um no residential care facility housing five or fewer residents uh can be closer than 1,000 ft from each other because it looks like recovery housing residents is also is also um has also preempted us. We have that also located in an R1 zone. recovery housing residents housing no more than three unrelated. And this is really no different. We we're we're going to treat these no different from other rental facilities. So you'll have an no more than three unrelated per unit is is what we already have for all of our rentals. Um we would we would just add recovery housing. We'd have them inspected. They'd have to get a permit, a rental permit as well as a use permit u for for this type of use in an R1 zone. Then we if you jump to uh 230403 multifamily um R3 residential zone um I I allow uh I I have in here for residential care facilities housing 6 to 16 residents and then I added density controls to these. The 6 to 16 residents is part of the Ohio Department of Behavioral Health uh rules and regulations. though we can we can restrict those facilities um housing 6 to 16 and we can put them in an R3 as a conditional a conditionally permitted use and then the re recovery housing we want treating them similar um housing four or more

unrelated residents um they'd have to have a valid permit from the Ohio Department of of uh um behavioral health and from the Ohio Department of Commerce building department for a certificate of occupancy and And we have density restrictions on those located in an R3. No, either one of those can must be at least 1,000 ft from uh from another similar residential facility. So, we made the change in the R3 because of the way our zoning is set up. We also we also need to look at these in the business district. So, um they would not be allowed in a B1, but then you jump to a B2 and a B3 zone, then we do allow these uh residential care facilities and recovery housing residents um same as an R3 um at least 1,000 ft um um density controls and then four more for the recovery housing residents.

Quick quick question on that. I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, before before you continue, um just a reminder on B2 and B3 that first floor residential prohibition still applies. So the use could be permitted, but there you can't use first floor. Is that in the in the B2 and B3 or would we would we treat this differently? cuz I mean I know for like say for instance a hotel in a B2 or B3 um technically people are living on the first floor but in this but they're not really living there because it's a it's a it's a hotel right and it's a business in that regard. So for the residential care facilities we uh we would

yeah I um the way it's set up right now they'd be allowed to use the first on the first floor. Okay. They're not we're not considering these a residence. They're a they're a a business use basically for the care facilities for the care facilities. So, um if we want to change the language, you want to do it, you know, here if you if you don't want them on the first floor because I the way it reads right now, they would be allowed on the first floor for the care facilities for both. For both. Yeah.

I think we need to think about that. Um just as we're going forward, just cuz you know, are we are are they a residence or are they a business? and and I think a residence you wouldn't permit first floor residential in a Bzone. Um, you know, not to say that it's going to happen that frequently, but I think it's something that we would want to specify if we need to or at least know how we're going to um treat it.

Yeah. I I guess I don't understand why we would change that requirement. Um, why we would not require them to be above the first floor. Um, exactly. I I understand the kind of the the analogy that it is a business but um it's still a residential facility. So would you want that both for the residential care facilities and the recovery housing facilities the the second floor and above? That would be my opinion and that's the way I thought I read it. I didn't realize we had changed that when I reviewed the initial comments. Well, we want to make it clear. So, I can I can adjust that uh to make that clear.

I mean, is everybody what what's the pleasure of the uh I I'm just thinking about say for instance um like a couple of the facilities across the street from the fairgrounds. I think that's a B3 out there if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, that's a B3 and those are on the first floor, right? And they're caring for people on the first floor um in in that space like at the hospital um at the at the mental health institution that's out there. Those are obviously different types of uses, but then there's a couple places that are right there up against Union Street and and they're care facilities and people are being cared for on the first floor. Um, so I I guess that would be an example of of would that be permissible or would that be something we'd want or not?

I I could see it if it were in a you now what zone is that in over there? B3. So I could see it in a business zone better than I could see it in a residential zone. Right. I agree, Mr. Chair. I my my question though specific to this is we're talking about these these uses being allowed in a Bzone, but we typically prohibit residential on the first floor. Okay.

So, I think that that's just something to clarify. And maybe that's an interpretation thing. Maybe we don't have to specify them. I again I I I guess I'm more I was more concerned about um making allowing it on the first floor in residential zones personally. That's that was more of an issue for me than in a business zone. But we go ahead. I'm sorry. So number one, do we allow it on in a res R1? Do we allow on first floor? We wouldn't I mean people are allowed to live on the first floor. It is it is a residence. It is a residence but for business

no I'd rather settle it now would be my my opinion because you'll have all kinds of qualifiers and people needing to be grandfathered in. But uh it's but it is a business on an R3 though. Are do we have do we allow it on in an R3 residential on the first floor? Yes. Oh, we do. And and would these be allowed in an R2? Yes. And do we allow it on R2 residents on the first floor? Yes. Okay. Okay. Well, then Okay. I I Okay. I'm confused here a little bit. I've confused myself, actually. Okay. I shouldn't have brought it up. Sorry.

No. No. I think it's important to talk about that. do is you could you could split the split the difference here and have a residential care facility housing 6 to 16 residents allow those on the first floor in a business zone. The recovery housing residents uh allow them only on the second floor and above. Mr. Chair, I would think that that would be appropriate because, you know, you're basically looking at that care facility as a as a as a as a business use, whereas the the recovery house is a residential use and all other residential uses in our B2s and B3s, we say you can't have residential use on the first floor. Um, so I think that would be appropriate what he just said.

Yes. Just to add to this with the the Bzone conversation, I think we would really be negatively impacting anyone who wants to do this in a B3 um because of ADA requirements. I mean, if that facility doesn't have an elevator and you're restricting from ground floor, then it flies in the face of of any progress of developing something like this where those ground units could be completely ADA accessible um without having to put the burden of adding an elevator or something else to that facility. So, um, we're saying that in the Bzones, we will permit the, uh, residential care facilities, but on the first floor, but the residential recovery h the recovery housing would not be permitted in the BO

on the first floor. On the first floor because it's a residential. Yes. Okay. So, I'd reward the uh 230405 A9 recovery housing residents housing four or more unrel unrelated residents on the second floor and above with a valid rental permit and periodic rental inspections. Uh similar to what um A1 reads, I would think. Okay.

Okay. All right. Okay, thank you.

So, I also wanted to look at the um number of parking or the amount of parking required for these types of facilities. Um we did actually add I'll get let me do the definitions. We did u definitions for recovery housing residents and residential care facilities in the definitions section of 23 uh title 23. Um, I believe that the residential care facility exactly matches the Ohio Revised Code or Department of Behavioral Health's um definition. While the recovery housing residents, we kind of made a little tweaks that still it still matches the intent of that uh of that definition. I believe though um we also looked at the table B uh bulk controls to look at uh parking. So recovery housing residents is the minimum required is one space per bed for recovery housing residents. But understand that we do have an exemption uh from these regulations. If you're within 1500 ft of public transportation, which most most of these facilities probably would be, you cut that in half. So you would have one parking space per two beds uh in that case because of that. And then residential care facility, one space per 3,000 square foot floor area uh similar to what uh what we have in the other uh sections of the ball controls. Again, that could be uh divi that could be cut in half. the requirements could be cut in half if they're within 1500 feet of public transportation. Okay. And then on T uh chapter 29, title 29, we added recovery housing residents to rental dwellings, short-term rentals, and housing permits. We think this fits best in in this section. And we want to treat we would treat recovery housing residents as uh as we do any other

rental in uh in the city. So, they would have to rental permit would be required. They have to apply. They'd have to be inspected uh just as we do all of our rental permits for short-term rentals, uh rental dwellings, and housing rentals. Okay. It's really safety. So one one comment I have is um so in in with regard to the recovery facilities were allowing three unrelated people with the exception I guess in R3 we can have R3 in the business we can have four unrelated people

four more um they have to get a it was this will be like a rooming house I would we would treat it the same um so for a rooming house you have to have a occ occupancy permit. Um, and you have to get some some other they typically those are those facilities will need to be sprinkled. Okay.

So, um, they're a little bit different. Those are also conditionally permitted in a in a a R3. Um, so they would have to go to the board of zoning appeals uh to get approval. Well, the one the one the one thing that I recall um and maybe I don't recall it correctly, but I I thought the state law permitted in these type facilities up to five unrelated people. How does that fit with this?

So, we talked about breaking that down into into two subsections. That's the way I had originally sent it to you and we we revised that. Um so, it's you could do that. It makes more sense, I believe, for us, and it's a better stance for us to have to treat these like we do the other rental permits, the for short-term rentals, for, you know, long-term rentals, for for rental rooming houses, if we treat those the same rather than try to try to separate those out. Um, I I think that that we have a better stand to to uh to get these, you know, to make sure we can enforce this kind of this kind of zoning.

And Mr. chair. Yes, we've, you know, spent a lot of time in the OC between the two different sections of um 511934, which talks about the care facilities, and 50 511939, which talks about recovery houses. And the preeemption in the Ohio Rise Code that we were talking about before is specific to um communities zoning out care facilities, those those healthc care facilities basically from their from their R1 zones. that's where that limit of five um is is put in place. That that preeemption does not exist for recovery houses. And so when we talked about this, we said, you know, we really, you know, we can't overly constrain these. You know, we can we can create conditions such that that they are um um they're they're treated similarly to to the other parts of the the of you know, other uses in the city. You know, we can put permit requirements on it just for life safety like we do for rentals. Um and that's what we did. But we said, you know, we treat rentals in R1's for three or more. So, um, we would we would treat these in R1's as as three, I'm sorry, three or less unrelated people. Um, so it would be the it would be the same basically.

Yes. I have one question about a comment. It's on page 12 of 20 of the PDF file and I think it's 22 of 30 in our packet. It talks about personal services. Do we need to resolve that now? you had noted uh that there's ours doesn't match the Ohio revised code. I believe our definition is a general summary of what is provided in the OC. I can read out the ORC's language if you would like to compare the two. That would be helpful. It's it's up to you.

It's up to you. I mean yeah on your judgment on when you call that when you didn't agree I thought if we're making changes I think important to try and so we are in sync with code

so what I had I hadn't um noted our specific definition I had just included the OC's definition of those uses and kind of like my notes that that I sent to code for consideration. Okay. Um, so I hadn't called this definition out as an issue. Okay. Yeah. Thanks. Okay. Any anything else?

I think the other thing is that we probably ought to talk about or have a discussion about is the density uh restrictions that we're that we're talking about because I think it matters, right? Um and and so what we talked about is no more than 1,000 feet um or no less than 1,000 feet from one another. So for for both of these types of uses these new newly defined uses the updated definition of residential care facility and then the newly defined use of recovery house and um you know when we iterated on this we kind of said what's too close what's um you know if you if you overly constrain them you're creating a situation where you're you're apt to be challenged and and um you know we we have done some density restrictions um with other uses around the city. Um, specifically, I think most recently with with uh tobacco uh and cannabis um sales locations. And in those instances, rather than distance from one another, we looked at quantity per specific Bzone. So, we said, you know, four in this B3 zone, five in this B3 zone. And and that was kind of how we did it. And then we stuck a a distance from uh Playground Church's schools. Um now, in this case, we're talking about from one another. and and you know, we went back and forth about what's appropriate um to do because you know, if you're if you're overly restrictive, you're singling them out and I think you're you're at risk um of of you know, a discriminatory practice, which we don't want to do. But at the same time, I think um it's an important discussion for the public and for us to say, you know, there's only a limited number of houses in the in the city and and you know, what's an appropriate uh density to to have for all the various uses that that we have. So, I I think I don't know if it's worth talking about here, but but we we landed on 1,000 ft. Um, you know, I don't I don't know if there's thoughts from the commission that it's more or less or or what's appropriate.

So, so for the general public, 1,000 ft is approximately what distance is it? A city block? I don't know. What would you say? Two and a half blocks. Yeah, about two and a half blocks. Okay. If you figure the frontage of a normal incity lot is probably 40 feet. 40 to is that what a norm of our city um used to be 60 um we we reduced it. Well, but a lot of the older ones though 40t is pretty common for you know at least in the near-end neighborhoods um frontage is 40T. So, if you can imagine that in your in your head, um, you're looking at two and a half blocks and that,

you know, as I as I read these, I wasn't uncomfortable with the thousand, you know, I um I just uh I but I don't know how what do the other commission members think or uh anybody else have any thoughts about that? I'm not uncomfortable with it either. I mean, it's it's what's been set for other the other business.

Uhhuh. Right. Um, let me Yeah. So, I guess what we're saying is that's a, you know, right now that's a good starting point and uh we can get uh potentially and and I I'm going to ask that we vote on making sure that we have before we vote on these changes and additions to and prepare to forward it to council. Um I'm going to ask that we formally ask the law director to look at these and make sure that she's comfortable with it. she conceivably could say something about the distance as well as she looks at that.

Sure.

I another another thing that um so uh this morning we received a letter from attorney who represents the uh woman who lives at 53. And um one of the points that was made in the letter is that the resident at 53 had a difficult time getting to her property because of vehicles in the driveway and the common driveway. So, one, I have a concern about these facilities being in a residential district with a common driveway, and I don't know if we could do something with that or can. But more important, the fact is I thought that we had talked that the um that the residents didn't have cars at these recovery facilities, but rather they used a van to transport them to where they go during the day and uh and and move them. So my my initial thought was, well, you know, if they only have one vehicle up there, it there should not be a problem with uh people getting to, you know, on a common driveway getting to their property. But if they, you know, if it isn't um if if there isn't uh supervision all the time there and people come, you know, I guess friends could come, I guess, and and visit them or something. I I mean, I don't know. Is this is is there an uh so so um I I guess I guess my main question is the uh the um h recovery uh housing facilities um and the residential care facilities. Do they have full-time people at the facilities? Um, and are they required to

I don't know that I Mr. Chair could answer that and you know I know that as we've looked at the state definitions for both of these and the state requirements. So, uh, the state requirements require a a certification process of recovery houses and a licensing process of, uh, care facilities and, um, um, you know, from whether, you know, presumptively the care facilities would be more likely to have, you know, a a staff member present. Um um and my guess would be at to what level of care probably, but I don't know that that's in in local um in the local purview really. Um I do think parking uh is because that's certainly something that we do for rentals and we say, you know, you got to have this many parking spaces

and we we've we've defined that in our in our regulation, right? Well, I'm I'm you know, I'm just concerned about common driveways and I don't know how many we have in our community where they have common driveways, but that is something that kind of is a concern that I had as I continue to ponder this whole thing. Sure. I don't any thoughts on we don't we have certainly have them but we but there's not that many shared drives in the city of Athens particularly in the R1 areas.

Yeah. It's typically something on someone's deed where, you know, two parcels maybe subdivided and they had a a, you know, a drive that served, you know, they had one drive, they subdivided the parcel and then they wrote into the deed, you know, each parcel will be served by this driveway and then it's incumbent upon the property owners to work out, you know, between the two of them to make sure each had access. I I don't know if you if you've seen other instances.

Yeah, we do we do have several of them in the city. Um, if we did want to talk about that, I' I'd almost consider that a separate subject on what do you do with shared drives and how do you manage those because they do become issues occasionally. Um, we don't have a lot of control in our code right now of preventing them. Um, they they end up, you know, that would come from our lot split title 21 minor subdivisions and we haven't um we haven't we we haven't always looked at those when we've approved the lot splits before. we so so maybe we could direct address that as part of title a title 21 code code code code code code code code code code code code code code code code code code code code code code change um and not specific to these recovery housings

and you almost would have to do a review of the deed um to ensure that there's a some sort of mutual arrangement baked into the deed when the lot split occurs how you deal with ones that already exist um because you you have to have a triggering mechanism to cause you to look at them and that that lots split is typically the triggering mechanism I don't know how you do that Yeah. Commissioners, anything else? So, I would like to ask is if there's anybody here from next level and if they would like to say something u regarding these discussions that we're having before I open it up to everybody else. So, would you like to speak?

I would. Um, so I would ask that you raise your right hand and uh basically confirm that everything you will present to this commission will be true and accurate to the best of your knowledge. Thank you. And and so if you'd step up there and give your name and address. Yes. I guess business as well. My name is Joy Jones. I'm my address. My home address or a business address? A business address is fine. 111 0 State Route 550, Athens, Ohio 455071. Okay.

Yes. I'm a little nervous. So, I was listening to you guys talking about the house. Some of these guys here are the res were the residents at 51 Madison. So, um I brought them in to share with you guys what really goes on because um we were short staffed and some of the the information that you got you guys got was not all correct. We did try to reach out to the neighbor when we first got there because we have a good neighbor policy. I wasn't aware that we weren't supposed to be there because the landlord, everyone that um when we came down there knew what we were going to do and it seemed to be no problem. I've been in Athens for almost two years as far as the behavioral health. We just opened the houses up three three months ago, one four months ago, one almost three months ago. And um we bring clients in from all over Ohio that need help and we specialize in couples. So we decided to get couples cuz we were doing single people, single individuals and they were always relapsing going back to their using partner. So we came up well I came up with an idea healing the house instead of the individual. So now we bring couples in and we the relapse um has it has decreased so they stay longer. They're more engaged. We have a good neighbor policy. The guy over here shaking his head. He helps the neighbors. He's from Lorraine. They are the senior residents there. So when something goes on they report to this lady here. And I will if you want I'll get let them come up. you can let them come up and share their story and how next level behavioral health and how next level the house of opportunity has helped them. So when it comes to the houses when I came down here I was just so much was going on because my son was murdered and I'm trying to run a business and I completely forgot to register the houses and as soon as you

guys came I went down and I registered houses. I moved them all out of the houses. The houses are still there until we get all of the compliance that you have that you guys asked of us. I want to be compliant. I'm not here for the money. I don't charge them anything. I help them. I come out of my pocket. I became a Dr. Joy not because I went to school because I was honored. I have an honorary doctorate because of the work that I do in the community in Columbus, Ohio. When I met Capstone, I shared with them what they I was going to do and they gave me the building. So, I felt like it was all a blessing. After being there a while, we was started helping clients. We overflowed in Columbus. So, I had these houses. I said, "Let me send these people here." And they came here and they changed their lives around. Whatever it is you guys want me to do, I'm willing to do it. If you want me to move out, I don't know if I had the capacity to fight, but I want to do the best I can to continue my mission and to help these clients.

Okay? And if you have any questions for me, I'm willing to answer them. Thank you. Yes. Does anybody have a question for her at this point? I My question is, do we would What's the pleasure? Would you like to hear from a supervisor, I guess, and and uh maybe uh a resident or uh what would you like to do? I uh I personally would think there's some value in that, but I think so. I like to. Okay. I'mma have a seat and Okay. Have your way. Thank you. Yeah.

So, so um let me uh let me ask uh each of you who are going to speak here to raise your right hand and indic and and uh confirm that everything you will say here and and communicate to the U commission will be accurate and true to the best of your knowledge. I do. I do. Okay. Um, so state your name and and your address as well for the My name is Sophia Hancock. I am um my address here or Yes. What address? 111. What' you say? 11 1 0 State Route 5. 1100 State Route 550.

So you're out facility. Okay.

Um my name is Sophia Hancock. I am the director of housing. Um, so our I mean our mission is we just want to help people. Um, we're not here for a pay. I'm not here for a paycheck. Um, I enjoy helping them. And to see them grow from coming in off the streets and actually being able to become who they can become to the best of their abilities without, you know, home the struggles of homelessness, um, addiction, just not knowing their life skills that that could be taught to them. Um, it is very powerful to see them start with nothing and become so like just amazing people that they have the ability to to do. Um, so my position that I hold here, if there's any issues in the houses, they report them to me and I address them and fix them um the proper way. That way they're not on their own. They're not just thrown in to the wolves, you know. Um, a lot of them have had struggles, but they I mean they completely turned their lives around and um I'm very proud of them. If you guys have any questions,

how many how many houses do you manage here in in our community? And in your guys' community, too. Two. Okay. And um how often do you visit those facilities? So before they got brought back, it was daily. Daily. You're there daily. Yes. And then as needed beyond that? Yes. if if an emergency would come through. Anybody have any other questions? Thank you very much. Of course.

And so I I think at this point what we'll do is just one couple would be, you know, give us a good sense of things. I I I don't want to disrespect anybody and say you can't speak and you're well I welcome to if you really feel you want to but I I think we just want to get a sense of uh you know how how this program is helping you people.

Hello. My name is Casey. This is my fiance Nate. Nathan. Nice to meet you guys. Thank you for the opportunity.

Yes. We just wanted to be able to let you know that um where we came from was uh horrible. We were in a horrible uh program in Dayton that was all about fraud and money. It got shut down and caused us to be homeless. So, we're originally from Youngstown and so our journey started last December, our sobriety journey and landed us here in Columbus. And Dr. Joy, Sophia, Lynn, everybody has been amazing. They have helped us change our life tremendously. Um, I'm 44 years old. I've been to a couple other programs. This is the best one I've been to. This is the first week we were there. I had Dr. Joy come up to me every single day and be like, "Do you like your house? Do you need anything?" Like,

she just wants to help. Her heart is huge. And like, we know it's not about the money cuz the place we were at before was about money and stuff, but if it wasn't for Next Level, I don't know where we would be. um they they've they've helped me get my license, they've helped me with my birth certificate, social security card, just changed my life completely and I'm I'm beyond grateful. So, um being away from Youngtown is big for us and being out here in Athens, we love it. We absolutely love it here.

Um it's quiet, it's it's calm. Um, and we really truly try and like being the senior peers in our house, you know, we have these beautiful houses furnished. Um, beyond grateful for the for the amazingness of these homes and not being homeless, but um yeah, go ahead. It's just Well, you saved my life.

Yeah, it that's why I see you over here tearing up the whole time. Um it was uh uh devastating to hear that you know we had to move out the other day cuz I truly I fell I've fallen in love with Athens you know and uh it I like she said we've been in other treatment centers and it it just hasn't worked. I don't know you know and I I believe it comes down to the love uh in this program um that I haven't felt in a long time. So, I was happy to come here and um you know, really speak uh how much this program saved my life. Um it's incredible the whole ride up here. I I just was uh just counting my blessings, you know, and I'm hoping that um you know, God's will will let us come back and be a great part of the community. Um we had that snowstorm. Uh a resident with me, we went out and shoveled driveways. Um I don't know how many we shoveled. Um, and we were doing it for free. And of course, some people would help out, you know. Um, but we were just offering, you know, to help the uh more elder community members, you know, when they were stuck in. Then when the plow would come by, it was they couldn't get out of their driveway. So, I was going and shoveling them out of their driveway. Um, cuz that's part of our good neighbor policy. You know, you you see somebody anybody struggling or or just, you know, somebody needs scary groceries carried, you know, that's where we're at. So, um, like I said, appreciate your time, guys. Thank you. Thank you for listening. We appreciate

you. You have any questions? Sorry. Okay. Thank you very Thank you very much. Okay. Okay.

So, so um I think the next step would be to open it up to other comments from from folks. You know, what we're trying to focus on is the legislation changes that we're pro we're planning to make here. So um you know so is there other people who would like to speak here regarding the discussions for the changes we've made and and you're you're welcome to stay as long as you want I guess but um or if you need to go you can whatever but okay so name and name and address once again Mr. Staer

Jack Stoffer Elmwood I think anything that we do, we need to keep in mind community need. Somewhere in these documents that I've read with behavioral health andor recovery, um they address community need. We have folks in our community providing services for our community and we haven't had any problems that I've become aware of in regards to community need. I've jotted down a few notes here and this is not going to be organized. I'm going to jump around from topic to topic, but I all things that I think need to be touched on here and a couple opinions or things I think you need to be to take under consideration. I know you want something that will stand up in court, but remember landlords in this town could also sue existing landlords, student landlords, any landlord could also sue if you allow this type of um business or whatever the proper term might be to refer to them as in our our zones. I'm specifically mostly concerned with R1. Things that I think that you could need to consider are the lot sizes. If you've got a neighborhood that has small lots, the houses are very close together. I know on and I I know this on my street. I

know it a lot on the near east side and on the west side there. There's a lot of small lots in town. If you got small lots, the houses are real close together. I think there needs to be a minimum distance between the physical houses and I think there needs to be a physical size noted that these wouldn't be allowed on any lot that wasn't of a certain size. and a certain distance from the property line and a certain distance between the physical houses. And as far as the shared driveway goes on my street, there are several shared driveways. Now, I don't know how many shared driveways there are in town. It doesn't matter how many shared driveways there are in town. If you're the guy with the shared driveway, it's a big problem. That's already been demonstrated at 53. Now, I heard what everybody said. I'm not going to be I'm not here to disrespect anybody. I'm here to stand up for the residents of Athens, Ohio. And when they were when these folks or whoever was in there was moving out at 53 Madison or 51 Madison, their vehicle became stuck in their own driveway. So I don't know how many driveways they shoveled. I'm not here to say they didn't shovel any driveways. I'm here to say they got stuck and hung up in their own driveway when they were trying to make the uh exit up there. Now, in regards to um how far density, how far these could be apart,

you suggested 1,000 ft as far as how far these businesses or recovery homes or whatever the proper term is can be apart. I'm looking out for Athens, Ohio. I'm looking out for the residents of Athens, Ohio. If the state law, this is probably a Lisa question, maybe maybe Mr. Riggs knows the answer or maybe Mr. Stone knows the answer. If the state law doesn't say what the number of feet of distance in between these recovery houses is. In other words, if there if it's not written out in the state law that you can't go over a,000 ft, then my suggestion is you do go over 1,000 ft and you make them as far apart as possible. And you also say there can't be any and they can still no matter to that they have to be so far apart and or from precinct to precinct. They're we can't have our town overwhelmed or jammed up. And the shared driveway thing is a big thing. Small lots, houses close together. I think these things need to be considered. Now, these folks already said they're in love with Athens, and I understand why because it's a great town. I'm in love with it, too, and that's the reason I'm standing here today. But we all know that the national rate is more or less 70% for re uh recidivision or whatever, people failing to recover. So, recovery houses are in our town. There's a 70% failure rate. The people

love our town. That means people will possibly remain in our town, be going to our food banks, be be going to our churches, be going to these places that provide meals for the folks in our community. And I'm focusing on our community. I would like for any of these to be uh I I'd suggest that you consider these needing a variance or a um whatever the proper term is to um not be a permitted use but a conditionally permitted use I think you might say. I just don't want Athens to be the dumping ground for Ohio. We've already had a taste of what this can do and make it problematic for us, our citizens. I think there needs to be a distance since the the folks that are the customers, the residents, the clients, there needs to be a distance from bars. There needs to be a distance from carry outs. There needs to be a distance from dispensaries. There needs to be a distance from churches. We we need you can't let them have less parking than you can let the regular landlords have or else that opens up another can of worms. I think you should require or consider requiring depending on what Lisa says onsite supervision. I think I think anybody that comes to town should have residents, clients that have had a background check. We've already we've already found out that this outfit clearly doesn't do

background checks because when we had an event, we had a convicted felon. That's one thing. But with an outstanding warrant, that's another thing. Thank you. Thank you, Jack. Anybody else? Nice to be on this side of the podium for a while after that 4-hour meeting last night. Um Allan Swank, Captain City Council, fourth ward, live on the far east side. uh been in Athens since 1979. Um John on the distance thing,000 feet it's the same distance as number three on the U golf number two on the U golf course if you're playing from the members TE's. So that gives you a little perspective out how we're talking or what we're talking about.

U first question is to to director Riggs. Um the unrelated residence definition that we have in Athens where a couple is counted as one, is that a local thing or is that a state thing? That's local. That's local. It's been on the books for a long time. Yeah. Can you give the cliff notes version is the background and that why we do it that way? I don't I I don't know the answer to that sir.

Okay. The reason I asked because when we talk about three unrelated people and particularly student rentals it's three people but when we talk about three unrelated people in this situation it can be as many as six people. So there's a big difference between between three three and six. Um Sophia the house manager one I'd like to ask you a question. when uh there were several incidents uh over the last three or four months where the police were called out, were you contacted about that? I was. Okay, good. I just want to make sure that communication was taking place. And when something like that happens, you assume go down to the house and monitor and all of that kind of stuff. Yes, sir.

Okay. So, my comments really are about 230401 uh number seven. Uh one of the things that we have in here is the proof of uh let me read this as a small proof of certification ongoing or actively pursuing certification through the state of Ohio department of behavioral health. Uh that second part seems wide open as we all know u the higher one moves up in the chain of government the slower things move. Um so you know this could be months, it could be you know a year. Um would you consider or is there any uh state law that would prevent removing or actively pursuing certification through the state of Ohio department of behavioral health? Personally, I'd be a little bit more comfortable if the certificate was in place as before the uh the clients moved into the place rather than well, we're going to get it and then we're dependent upon a third party in Columbus to process it maybe in a timely manner and maybe not. So, something for you to consider. Um thousand ft we already talked about. Um I guess what I like to say is we're talking about two groups of people here. Mr. Stafer referred to the citizens of Athens. We're talking about two groups of people here. We're talking about the people who live in Athens on a permanent basis and the people who u have come here in a in a program that sounds fairly decent to work their way through recovery. Um, I had a family member who refused to go into recovery but was an addict and died because they did not get the proper care. So when we talk about these two groups of people, I would place the needs of

those who chose to enter recovery at position one and those who are not in or do not need a recovery program as 1A. But they both need to work together. So, I'm encouraging this body to review this very, very carefully as to what makes sense for the community of Athens for those who are in recovery and need those services and the people who have chosen to make this their permanent home and in many cases invested a lot of money as a house just got built and put up for sale on the near east side and the asking price is $750,000. threequarters of a million dollars. And I can understand when someone has invested that kind of money or their life in improving a property, the desire to retain that value. And the fear of the unknown is very powerful as we saw last night. But we also had something on our refrigerator for many, many years, a little magnet that said people spend 90% of the things that people are concerned about happening never happen. So, I guess what I'm saying is I'd like to make this as tight as possible, that regulations are being followed so that the people who live here permanently can feel that their investment in their property and their neighborhood is protected. But equally important, or maybe even a step above, that those who have chosen the path to recovery can continue down that path and not be part of that 70% but be part of that 30% that makes it to the end of the line. Thank you. Anybody else?

Please come to the podium and name and address, please. Thank you.

I'm Ann Rubin. I live at 88 Maplewood Drive in Athens. I will say on the question about shared driveways, I I live on a block in on Maplewood Drive where there are uh a number of shared driveways um not my lot but across the street there uh up and down my block. I know there's a lot of shared driveways, not as long as the one from 51 and 53. That's but uh there are actually a lot of shared driveways on the east side of Athens. Okay. Uh I had questions actually when I was looking at the draft and I thought maybe you could uh help me understand what you're proposing. Um I noticed that um so in 23.04.01 1 7 little a uh you're including recovery housing as a primary use uh not as a accessory use uh which is what rentals are generally uh why is that?

I don't think that's true. I mean what's the thinking behind that?

I don't think Mr. Riggs can you speak to that? So they Yeah. So we're really talking about two different Let me start here. We're starting talking about two different um draft um uh ordinance changes. It sounds like she has where I had part A and part B in there. We've removed that and changed that and that's what you have before u before the commission right now. So if you have if you go to 230401 uh A7, it just says recovery housing, residents housing, no more than three unrelated. Um we um we wanted to put that in it's always there's always this question right uh is a rental unit a residential use or or a business use right and so um if you treat it as a business use because there's it's income derived um people are making money off of rentals so it's income derived um then you have and you consider it a commercial use then you have residents who are like well you I'm not a resident I'm a commercial um I'm part of a commercial use. So it's a it's a odd it's an odd switch to look at what are we doing? Are we treating these rentals as residential or are we treating them as uh business operations? So what I tried to do here was I tried to um with a recovering housing residence I tried to make that match what we're doing with the other uh with the other rental uses and not try to try to define it either as a commercial use or a residential use. I have so I have it in here, but I'm not trying to say is it whether it's a residential or commercial because there are commercial uses that are allowed in an R1. It's not just for residential use.

They're allowed as accessory uses home business and whatnot are listed when I'm looking at this. So in institutional and cultural, that's not a it's not an accessory use. That's a primary use. This would be the same thing. It's a primary use, not an accessory use because you'd have to for an accessory use, you have to have a primary use. You can't just have an accessory use.

What is What is then? Am I not understanding what B5 is? Long-term rentals. B5 is listed as a permitted accessory use long-term rentals. And you're saying it's the same thing. That's what I'm just trying to understand. Not more than two renters. I think that's a short-term rental. Okay. So, uh, so this would be for non-resident owners, right?

No, this is like the standard. Isn't that like the general business in Athens, like renting out to three unrelated people subject to title 29? I think that's what you're talking about. You're trying to make 7A or seven equivalent to, but you have them in different you're actually treating them a little differently in the ordinance. And I just wondered what the thinking was about it. The state treats them differently. Um the state has requirements for recovering housing residents that the short-term rentals do not. Long-term rentals is a long-term rental provision.

Yeah. So, I'm just trying to if you're trying to make them the same. I didn't understand why you have one in as a primary use, one as an accessory use. Yeah, I'm just asking. I don't know. The state actually has additional regulations for for these types of units that they don't have for rental units for recovery housing.

Recovering housing does have additional requirements. Well, that that sort of does uh okay lead me to another question which was uh this and maybe I have the wrong document. I have the document that was posted yesterday. So on the website for the planning commission so uh that was what was available to me as a member of the public housing. Um, so you have recovery housing residents and if it's no more than three unrelated people with the valid permit, it doesn't say certification is required. Yes, it does. That's the way that's what is that one of the changes? Yes.

Okay. So, in any instance, certification would be required if it's recovery housing. Yes. As required by the state of Ohio. So, we're not talking about the city allowing recovery housing that's not complying with 5119.392, which is the requirement that they be certified or accredited. Great. Okay. Okay. Then, um I was Well, I think if you have a number of questions, you you should make an appointment and speak directly with uh Mr. Riggs in his office about

Well, there questions for you, too. I won't. Okay. I just wanted to understand what I was looking at. Um, and this one I'll I'll address to Mr. Rigg separately, but I did um want to know what evidence of local need you had apart in in considering this issue about amending the ordinances. Was there any evidence that you looked at uh demonstrating local need such as a needs assessment or other evidence you were considering about unmet local needs? And that's really addressed to you all as the commission. Well, I you know, I think um I think we're we're recognizing that um these recovery um homes are u a a growing u area in our community as well as other communities. And so I think what we are trying to do is make sure that um we look out for our community and um try to uh incorporate them in with regulations and requirements. And I think that's and I don't know maybe somebody can articulate that a little better here but that's what you know this is all about a growing need and wanting to you know I I think we had a discussion not long ago that this community has a lot of rental properties and a lot of people who come in and are here for a period of time and leave and uh and then we have our permanent residents and what we're trying to do is uh mesh the two together and make sure that we have some controls and um can can respect the needs of our community members, our permanent community members.

Okay. So, I'm I'm taking it that uh from your answer there that um this was an unforeseen need uh at the time the Athens comprehensive plan on housing was being written. Maybe you have a comprehensive plan. Of course, I wasn't a part of that that comprehensive plan so I don't know. But, you know, it to me it's like um marijuana dispensaries. Um you know, it's something that's, you know, has, you know, surfaced that we have those in our community now. And what we're trying to do is look out for our community. Okay. Okay.

And I would, Mr. Chair, I would say if you've got suggestions on guidance document um and a study that that would would be informative to the planning commission, we would love to love to review it. Okay. Thank you. I um I can meet with Mr. Riggs to ask some of my other questions, I think, but as a member of the public and looking for public answer, I had put the questions together. I guess my last question would be whether this commission has had any communication with the affordable housing commission on amending the ordinances pertaining to recovery housing if there's been any discussion between the two groups.

I personally haven't been a part of those discussions but other staff people members here may have but I don't know.

Okay. No, but to your point, you know, one of the missions of the Affordable Housing Commission, among other things, is the fact that like every other municipality in the United States right now is lacking in affordable or houses that are affordable. I I prefer not saying affordable housing because that has so many different meanings all across the United States right now. Um, but you know, houses that are affordable, you know, is is again, that's part of the narrative as we're looking at this and thinking about this because we're talking about R1 neighborhoods and the fact that in my 18 years of being a professor at Ohio University and having the dubious responsibility during faculty searches to drive people around to show them where they could live in R1 neighborhoods, where they could live anywhere in the city of Athens, and getting the same question every time in return. That's great. Where are the for sale signs? Where where are the houses that are for sale in our community. Um and you know, we we experience that to this very day. Um to where we do not have enough housing stock and I believe that we need to really be diligent in preserving houses that people can buy and invest and earn wealth in. uh but also to attract um people who are part of our economic development for the city of Athens which includes Ohio University. It includes everybody at the end of the day.

Right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Real quick, Mr. Copy, you get the email that I sent yesterday from Okay.

And I forwarded it. I I'm sorry I didn't copy you on on the forward, but I did forward it to everybody. I got this buried in the papers. I forgot to ask earlier. Thank you. Okay. Any other questions or or comments from people again? Okay, real quick. I I I need a point of clarification if if it's been cleared up yet. Um Ann touched on this and I think you guys talked about it earlier. So, one thing I want to make clear, Paul Paul back here uh filed a filed the complaint and the information that he got when he filed the complaint was that this outfit was not only not registered in the state of Ohio, they hadn't even applied to be down here in Athens and they just appeared. And at as of the date when he spoke with a little lady by the name of Sophie Lori, I believe her name was, they hadn't even applied, let alone been granted the license. And I would like clarification on what Ann touched on and maybe what one of you spoke about earlier. When you say certification or fully licensed by the state, does that mean to me or to Athens or to this community that this 18month um on-ramp or however you want to say it that you can come on into town and 18 months later you better be certified or we're going to we're going to do something about it. Fully certified.

You would think the logical thing to do would be to ask anybody coming into town to set up business that they had their license in effect. Just like opening a bar, you don't open a bar and say, "I've applied for my license. I'll get back with you when I get it. I'll bring you a copy." That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about, are they going to be certified? Have they cleared all the hurdles? Do we know they can perform what they are going to try to perform? And I wish all these folks and everybody that's trying to recover. I wish them success. That's not the point. The point is protecting our community for our community. Thank you. Um so, okay. Well, that's fine. Um I I I believe they are certified correct with the state of Ohio and part of the issue is making sure that we're aware that they're in the community and that they have gone through appropriate processes to use a facility here in the uh in in Athens city.

Mr. Chair, yes. I I'll start with my my understanding of the of the process and then I'll let David weigh in again and then if there's anybody else that has knowledge of it. So, um residential care facilities have a licensing process. So, when we talk about residential care facilities, that's a licensing process that the state licenses those. Recovery homes have a certification process where you register um and then you spend 18 months getting certified and presumably they can't certify you if they can't observe you operating. And so that's where that 18month uh period comes from. Did I say that correctly, David? When when we look at the two different portions of That's correct.

519 OC 5119.392. That's the one that states the 18 months. So they can they can operate for 18 months while they're actively pursuing their certification of that facility of that house after they've registered. Um they register they have 30 days to register the house. Correct.

So they can operate the house by this is state law OC 5119.391 says that they can operate the house for 30 days as they're before they register. They have 30 days after they start operating to register the house and then they they have to be uh then they have to be certified within that 18 months. They also have to be the other piece to this before they can do any of this they have to be a certified provider which is which is something different. So the the people that are operating that facility have to be certified with the Ohio Department of Behavioral Health and that's a separate certification that's a certification for the services they're providing.

Dr. Joy, do you want to say anything about this? Sure, please do.

So, the first thing I want to clear up is we are certified through the state of Ohio. Um, as Ohio Mental Health and Addiction Service already came out and approved this the location at State Route 550. We are in the process of being joint accredited. They come out on March 1st. We are in the process of not We moved all the people out of the houses because we were short staffed. They are back in Columbus. We didn't just bring them to Athens just to for whatever reason. We have people that needed help. We had houses here that were vacant and they were needed to be used. So, anybody if they come from Logan, um, Marian, wherever in Ohio and they call Next Level for help and we have a bed available, we go through the intake process and we will bring them in whether it's Columbus or wherever. Um, unfortunately we haven't been able to build our relationships with Athens as we would like to because I'm extremely busy trying to put everything together. I would like to build relationships with the people here. So, we have a open book policy. You can come in. You can see the facility. You can see the houses. The houses are registered now. Um, these clients are ready to go back. These two are at 51 Madison and the other two are at 34 Lraine. They were the senior residents there. What that is is the people that have been doing the work, going to meetings, dropping clean, have a little bit clean time, we they we gift them with an opportunity to be in charge. That way, we don't have to have full-time staff. We have peer supporters that come in and work with them during the day. So, in the evenings, they're home alone. We do not run background checks on clients. When they come to us, they let us know that they have a criminal background. this particular person did not let us know that he had a particular background check. I mean that he had a background that he was wanted. So we found out the hard way. So we don't just harbor people but when people are coming to us they already come with with a background. They come some of them have theft, some of them have all type of background but when it comes to

rehabilitation we try not to hold them hostage to who they used to be. We're trying to help invest in who they're becoming. So my motto is if you can change your mind, you can change your life. You change your mind is the way you think. You change your life is the way you live. We are in the process of doing whatever we can to remain in Athens. If you guys do not want us in Athens, I please I need you guys to tell me that you don't want us here because I think that when you're telling us you don't want us here, you're telling us that we can't fulfill our mission and to help the people that are in need. We would love to help Athens clients, I mean Athens residents because there is a need here. I did need assessment prior to coming here. So, if you guys can forgive me for the lack of getting the paperwork that you needed in a timely manner, I'm working on that now consistently and diligently and give these people an opportunity to change their lives. They're struggling in Columbus because that's not their home. Their home was found here and they want to go back home. And I'm rooting for them to go back home. But I can promise you this that I will not go back home without proper staffing and proper guidance. I cannot promise you that somebody might not use cuz I don't have the power to do that. Some people come to our housing just for housing. But there's some people like these people that really want to change their lives. And I think as a team, as a community, we can come together and we can help better them. They got jobs and they had to leave their jobs because they felt we all felt like we wasn't wanted in Athens. I even was going to move down here because I love the peace. I want a cabin somewhere, a trailer somewhere so I can sit out and drink coffee and have a peace of mind. And that's what they get at 34 Lraine. And that's what they get at 51 Madison. As far as the driveway is concerned, they're already aware that when you back the van in, you back it in by the house and not to block the driveway. Sometimes you got to let the clients out of the car with their groceries before we can park. So, it's they've been so f so doing it the right way that they ran into the house. So, I

have a bill I have to take care of. But, I'm just saying we have to I'm asking you all to give us an opportunity to help change the lives of these people in the community in Athens cuz I believe that we're an asset and not a liability. Thank you. That's all I have. Okay. Okay. Oh, we we got another Okay. Excuse me, sir. I left this paper here.

Okay. So, I'm Rob Delich. Uh, live at 124 Morris Avenue here in the city. I just want to state that I would encourage the commission and the city administration um not to over restrict the locations. Um, I we've heard some proposals to do things to greatly restrict maybe to the point of not allowing them hardly anywhere in the city. That's not the right approach either. So, I think a reasoned approach, which is what I'm seeing so far, I think makes sense. And I just want to encourage you along that path and not to overly restrict things. I will say as an example that um the tobacco, vape, cannabis restrictions that were passed by city council not too long ago now, less than a year I think. Um some of the restrictions in there made it nearly impossible to put some of those facilities um anywhere in Uptown for example because of churches were added into that by city council. that was not in the proposal that uh was put forth by the planning commission. That church restriction made it so that there's churches in Uptown. So, there's probably six facilities that are vape and tobacco retailers that would not be able to operate if they ever went out went out of business for a long enough time so they're not grandfathered in anymore. So, you could only have any tobacco and vape sellers in Uptown and only the very southern edge on Union Street or right near Union. the rest of town will be excluded from those ever ever in the future. I think that went too far. That's not going to be a factor for a while until we have businesses start closing and being replaced and can't be replaced. Um but I'd encourage you to not take things too far and to make a reasonable approach here. Um thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Okay. So, um, this is a communication. What I would, uh, and it sounds like, um, unless, unless anybody here on the commission has anything else they would like to see David add to these revisions that he has provided, Mr. rigs as provided. I would um I guess uh like to ask that our the commission vote to forward these changes to um to our law director for review before it comes back. Get that review done and get her opinions and maybe adjustments if there are any necessary before we bring it forward as a case to vote on. And if that's the if the commission's comfortable with that, I'll move that we do that that uh that we seek the help of uh the law director to make sure we're on the right course.

So, you're making the motion? I'll make the motion. Yeah. Okay. Then I will second that because I do have the authority to ask the law director anyway for opinions on things. Okay. So, all those in favor say I. I. Thank you. Okay. Um, I think I'd like to get Ally back if she's around here now.

Okay. So, um, thank you everybody here for the discussion that we had um, with regard to the recovery and care facilities. Um, so the next item on the agenda is reports. So, Mr. Rigs, do you have anything that you would like to I don't believe I have anything for the for the commission here. Thank you very much. Um, Miss Jennings, I do not have any reports. Okay, perfect.

Um, so now is the any are there any citizens here that have anything that they would like to speak about um that is was not covered on the agenda today? Seeing no hands go up, I would say then we'll move on to announcements and other business. And I believe that uh Miss Nisley has an uh other business that she'd like to talk about or announcement. Anyway, I do have a question for us to consider

um the uh what regulations there might be in code as we look at data centers, which may be an an issue for many communities in Ohio. And I know that there's state legislation looking at that, but um I'd like us to cons I don't know what formal way we go about. There's things to investigate in the city code and ways it might be incorporated and I think we should be proactive about it.

Mayor, um I'm glad you brought that up, Member Nisley. Um this is a topic that has come up on numerous occasions both with the US Conference of Mayors as well as the National League of Cities. Um I think this is something that we should have a communication on. Um I'd be more than happy to bring some of the the resources that the National League of Cities has addressed. There's some really fascinating when I was at the US conference of mayors meeting there was a round table with about 50 mayors from across the nation and it was a real fruitful conversation as the technologies change with data centers um you know with closed systems meaning less water being utilized energy still becomes an issue I think now is the time for the city of Athens to start at least having a conversation under the planning commission about um data centers. There's a lot of information out there. Um one of the best things that I learned is getting ahead of a data center coming in your community and having the ability to basically negotiate what is important to the community when it comes to a data center or outright having moratoriums on them or in some cases banning them. But I think it's timely. Okay.

Thank you. Okay, if I could add to what the mayor said last week, I was uh at a energy conference uh as a representative from NOPEC. Um and this was a that this and AI were the top two topics and what it comes down to is balancing several things. Um the environment of the community, uh economic development and um the reality is that technology is changing daily. uh and it was a hot topic and uh from that we also have some resources to not only NOPEC but also SOP uh that we can add to what the mayor shared today to have a community conversation about it but they're not going away. It's just a matter of what is best for the community uh in terms of those three things I mentioned.

Thank you, Mr. Swank. Okay, any any other announcements or other business? Seeing no hands, um I'll move for adjournment. Thank you very much for attending.