Town Council - Regular Meeting

as much of your lights in want to go and during the night. Yeah. Sleeping in Jonathan. Are we ready? I'm coming. I'm just Oh, thank you. Thank you.

Andrew, you're good. Thank you so much. Good evening, everyone. Gota get louder. Your light on my lights.

Good evening everyone.

Good evening everyone. Hey, it works.

Thank you all for coming. We're going to call the meeting to order at 702. So, we'll call to order the the Little Compton budget committee and joint uh with the town council in presence uh for our public hearing and then we're going to have a regular meeting after our public hearing. So, our agenda tonight is basically to call the meeting to order. We'll have um we'll open the public hearing in a few minutes. We'll take your comments on the um your public comments. We'll close the public hearing uh and then uh we will the committee needs to review and vote on minutes from our previous meeting, vote on the warrant items and finalize our votes for the budget book and then um discuss and vote our our budget committee report that will go in the budget book. Uh but we really wanted to have a public hearing before we finalized the book and we worked very hard uh to do that. So, uh, Corey and our, um, and Martha, our assistant town minister, sorry, has worked very hard getting the budget book put together. Uh, I don't know what Martha's t title is. I'm sorry if I missed your title up, Martha. Um,

I get a promotion

and they worked very hard to get this thing put together. And we have to turn it around to the printers very quickly because it takes several days to print and it has to go to the mass mailer to get mailed to everybody. so it hits the charter deadline. Um, and so I really appreciate everybody coming tonight and we really um want we want your feedback and then we will uh if you want to stay as we continue the meeting that you're please do so with that is there any other announcements any communications. All right. So, item number four is open a public hearing on plinary uh recommendations, the budget with the town council in attendance. Uh so, we'll do that now and um and then we will prepare for your comments. Does anybody have any anyone wish to make a statement? So, I I don't want to hold up uh any comments anyone might have, but I just wanted to um let you know how much work that the the committee and our finance director and our town administrator and Martha have done to get the budget prepared and to you in a way that I think is um fairly comprehensive. and and the committee has focused on a couple areas that I think are important. One is long-term planning. We for the first time in several years, we've got a five-year plan uh in the budget book. So, I think it's the first time in five or six years that there's been actually a five-year plan in the budget book, which is a requirement of state law. Uh but it had not been in there. Um and we have um spent time discussing with various departments their needs uh and where they are in the budget. We've had the uh finance director and the town administrator here several times to go over uh items um and and taken their

input. We've had several regular members of the public have been here uh and commented almost at every meeting. We really appreciate that. Uh sometimes it's a little lonely being here. uh sometimes it's not. And then Larry Anderson's our moderator this year uh at the Financial Town meeting. He's been attending our meetings because uh he's very uh uh engaged in trying to make sure that we have a Financial Town meeting where everyone who wants to participate can participate this year. Uh and so that's been a that's and Larry has been attending meetings to make sure uh that he's up to speed and he's been briefing the committee on his efforts on that part. So, if anybody has any specific questions about that, Larry's here in the audience and we can we can help you with that. All right. And with that, um I'm willing uh we'll open the floor for public comment

if you can please because it's uh we're live stream we're streaming online. So, it's we need to come to the microphone. If you can state uh your name and address for the record, too, that'd be great.

Uh my name is Sal Marinosi Salvatore. I live on uh Oliver Lane. Uh first of all, thank you uh to the budget committee and all involved. Uh I happen to know how much work goes into this and uh I don't take it lightly when you hand us a report and a projection. I look at all the work that goes into that and I I realize the hours you go through. I just would have one request and that request would be that we postpone the town meeting until we have a audit in our hands. I made that statement last year. I said that I will vote for it this year without an audit, but I won't do it again. And um I'm going to stick to my gun. And I I really believe that it's just good government for us to do that. I realize I talked to John and uh he said the numbers are good. The numbers are good to me when I have an audit and I would like to see an audit.

Thank you.

No, no, S. I want to thank you very much for your comment and I I do remember last year at the financial town meeting and the public hearing uh your engagement in this topic and and your concern. Um I I would I would like to raise a couple and items around that if you don't mind. One is um you know the audit is a look in the past and it's looking backwards at the financial well-being of the town's previous year, right? Okay. So, it's about it would be about a year and a half backwards right now. Um, and I think the audit is really important to me because the possible findings that are in there about financial irregularities or challenges or things that the town needs to address, those those to me are very important and we've had some significant findings in the last few years. Uh and then also I think it helps people understand um you know where our budgets were versus what was actually what's actually happenings right but that doesn't deal with the fact that we have a fiscal year coming and it is our obligation as a town to pass a budget and so what is your recommendation that we would do if we postpone the meeting until we had the audit? Um, my recommendation is to push for the audit as quick as possible and have a meeting immediately afterwards. Um, you you said that the audit is a findings of the past. You're correct. I'm a contractor. You don't build a house without a foundation. You don't do a budget without an audit. And I I'm we're never going to I I respect you, but we're never going to agree on that. And and the reason we're not going to agree is because I've been in situations

in business where an audit turns up some things that absolutely no one could ever think of.

And an audit, anything is possible with an audit. Well, I I I would say after this last couple of years, I would say you were well founded by by that statement that we definitely need to know what is going on with the town's finances. I you know I can tell you that I understanding your position last year and uh I have pressed the town council uh president several times about when is the audit going to be ready because we as a committee have also feel very strongly like you that it would be much easier to do our job if we had a current audit. Um, I know that the town council, I think, has spent quite a bit of time with and and went out to bid and got a new audit firm uh that is more capable than our past audit firms. Uh Scott Scott Lewis made a really astute observation a few meetings ago where he noticed that basically the town had a history of using the audit firm to basically build our financial books versus Portsouth that uses the same firm had welldone books and accounting and and the cost of that audit and the speed at which that audit would be done would be much faster. Right now as my understanding Mr. Mag has got our books in order. we've spent quite a bit of money on external firms to go through our books, redo, they basically had to reconstruct our books last year. Um, and he's telling us that he's very comfortable with those numbers. Now, it's not an audit. But again, if to me, if we don't have a final, we're required to have a financial town meeting, there is no option.

However, may I interrupt? Absolutely. Uh however, I think um legally you can continue with your spending on a on a uh on the same basis until you have the financial town meeting. I think there's a loophole or not a loophole, but there's a an ability to get the audit at the end of June and then move and have a financial town meeting right afterwards. And I just we should not be doing we should not be passing a budget without an audit. It's bad practice.

Right. And so so I understand that. But let me let me pose something to you. What if you were say a firefighter, police officer, one of the public servants in town, you know, and we don't pass a budget, you don't see your raise that your cost of living increase, right? That are contractually obligated that we're we're contractually obligated for. but we can't provide those to people and so now we have contractual obligations that we can't meet. So my concern is is that I think we'll have an audit fairly quickly. Um but I don't think we can proceed with a budget with delaying a budget considering that we have obligations that we must I mean I'm I'm I'm not disagreeing with you S at all. I I just think that we if to me if something came up in that audit that was severe and significant that we needed to look at we as a town could have a another special financial town meeting and revise our budget. Um we could we could do lots of things. So I I just don't I don't know how we delay this process. Well, the the the budget is going to be the budget from date of X.

Yeah.

And and paying people back to that date is not a big deal. I mean, that can be worked out. Uh retroactive back to the date once it it's passed because it's assumed that that's when it would have been passed. But to to go ahead without us seeing an audit and then looking at the budget, studying the budget with the audit and taking that information in is I think paramount. And I I can't say it any other way except I ran millions of dollars worth of work. I mean millions. Uh a lot bigger than this town. And we didn't go forward without knowing where we were. And I appreciate that greatly. I I just to me personally I when when John tells me that he understands where things are at and the amount of work that he has put in getting things where you know and and John has I think a great record in town. He's got the schools books running fabulously well. Right. He's done a herculean effort in the last year and a half here trying to clean up the this

again. Right.

I praise John. I mean, you know, I he's done a great job. I mean, everybody, the whole council has done a great job. You people have done a great job. We've been through some bad times, but in in because of that, we shouldn't move forward without an audit. Make us both right and say we're not going to move forward. We're going to find a way to get that audit in and have the financial count and do the whole thing right. I just think that this is a time for us to bite the bullet and do what we said we should do last year and what I committed to last year. I I won't take any more of your time.

I thank you greatly for that and we will definitely and I would I would invite you to stay if you wish for our regular meeting while we we'll bring this up and talk to Larry. um as we move forward. Any anybody that knows me knows I'm a town person. I don't want anything bad to happen to my town. And I'm I'm and I'm sure I'm almost positive there's no surprises coming in the audit. I still want I want that practice. I want an audit. Thank you. No problem.

Yes. Mr. Kenny, can you please step up and I know we we he's here every night with us. So, it's been really really very helpful. Thank you so much.

My name is Vincent Kennedy. I'm a resident of uh Big Drum Road. Uh not to challenge a senior bullfrog. Uh but I have uh I come to a different uh conclusion. Uh I do sympathize uh and recognize the importance of annual audits. Uh they do in fact confirm the validity of the fin the financial statements and that's an important third-party validation. Um, from my perspective, the interim financial statements, uh, whether they be monthly or quarterly, are much more important than the annual statements. They're important principally because they permit uh the town or any enterprise to measure progress against a plan and um to make whatever adjustments are necessary on a go forward basis. Um it is somewhat counterintuitive to me that um when I first became interested in the town's financial affairs um I made a public records request of the uh state um division of municipal finance and I asked them for the um interim financial statements for the town uh for the last several years. The last one that I could locate was March of 2018. So that from my perspective, it's it's counterintuitive to

operate for several years without interim financial statements. Well, I should be careful. I don't I don't know that they don't exist. I know I can't locate them. Uh, but it appears to me that the town was comfortable operating for several years without interim financial statements, which to me are much more important than um annual reports that validate historical numbers. Um so the to me the real question is are the existing are the financial state the interim financial statements that we are now receiving uh basically since October as of September are they adequate for purposes of understanding our position and our go and our plan forward. One way of judging the um adequacy of interim financial statements is to inquirer of the preparer whether the that person has a history of audit exceptions. Now audit exceptions come in two varieties. one one is sort of cardinal sins you know booking booking income that doesn't exist would be an example another would be of the more venial variety selecting a discount rate slightly different than the other. So it might be helpful to in my in my judgment understand whether the financial statements and the history of the preparer have extraordinary audit exceptions. My judgment is that that is not the

case. So I feel that the the financial statements that we are now currently receiving are adequate for purposes of moving forward. Lastly, a third conclusion or basis would be that um as you know, Standard and Pores has recently issued a downgrade and they will be very careful in watching the town's progress and anything that delays that progress would be an adverse development from their perspective. Thank you for your time.

Thank you so much for your comment. So I would just say to Vince comments that pull the mic closer to about sorry

as a disclaimer for the budget committee the only records that we have looked at are the ones that John provided in March. So when he talks about intim financial reports we have never seen any received any or viewed any of them. So, our budget, their budget, our recommendations are solely based on John's numbers in the booklet that we received in March. And I've asked for the when the audit is going to be done. I've asked for financial statements, financial reports up until then. And we end up with the booklet. So, just so everyone here is on the same page, that's how we're coming up with our recommendations. Well, and I think what Scott's alluding to is that, you know, the committee hasn't received packets of information, but I will I will say that as Mr. Kennedy said, the town at town council meetings is getting regular updates from the financial director, which is the first time since 2018 that that's occurred on a monthly basis. Um, which is significant progress. Um, and you know, I think getting the mechanics together and stuff so that the committee gets regular work. And I I think Scott is correct for the committee to want and to need those types of uh documents delivered to us. Um those are and you can watch the town council meetings uh on on YouTube. Uh Mr. McM does provide a pretty detailed report of our current and pending balances and and our cash flow.

And I think those reports are I believe the reports are included in the packet, right?

I've had some Yes. Sometimes I think I think more recently they have been. I think I I think it's like in October I watched several you know I've watched most of them you know gave a verbal report not in the pack and then I think as we've progressed and got more mature like again I think there's just been a lot of cleanup that's been going on so it's been really hard to kind of get all everything together and get everybody's wants and needs but I do acknowledge that I think Scott is correct to that the committee would like to see regular printed materials delivered Yes, sir. Mr. Cro, didn't see him in the back. Yes. Can you please Thank you. George Gold for West Branch Road. The auditor general of the state of Rhode Island in August of every year is required by the house and the senate to produce a document by town by municipality. Those I've met with the auditor general twice. Those doc the documents that he had he gave to the legislature. Remember last year the council went to the the department of revenue for an override 4%. And they said no. Went to the auditor general for the override he said no. Went back to the revenue and they said no. Then it went to the legislature to our representative and senator and got passed 12%. The report in August of last year numbers provided by John. I've gotten along with John, but the numbers there said that this is before the 24 audit. His best guesstimate was we're going to be $1.7 million in the hole. Well, when

he got the audit this year came in, we're on the plus side of $1.9 million. His projection for 25 was 2.3 million in the hold. He told the council a couple of weeks ago that we're probably going to have a couple hundred thousand. Is that correct? couple hundred thousand.

First of all, George, the Lord and 24 was 1.1 million on the financial statements in the audit. It was not a million9 surplus. A million9 was the accumulated surplus as of June of 24. of that million nine the uh FY the f financial town meeting

for the FY25 budget had predicted we would use a million 196 so if you look at the balance sheet for the audit it's going to show a committed number of 1.196 which then leaves just about 600,000 of unassigned fund balance. So saying that there's a million9 surplus for 24 is is just wrong. Okay. But what about what about 25? 25. Uh I just submitted the uh trial balances today to the auditors and right now the general fund is looking at an $835,000 loss.

Okay. So the budget report last year, we had nothing to do roads, just road maintenance was not there. Nothing. And we went and paved four roads to over a million dollars. Where did the money come from? What account did it come from? Mr. Carroll, thank you. Um I if you can ask us the question, that's that's fine. You do you remember last year? If I one second if I can understand. So you're you're you're I I'm just trying to follow your question about the audit general report that you mentioned. Yep. So I like you're saying there's a report and what does that report say in it that may be of interest?

It said we would have a phys it said we would be in 24 we'd be structurally down 1.7 million and then in 25 2.3 million in the auditor general report. the auditor general's report. I have the report as of November 2025 and I can't this is this is the August report. This August this is the report he has to give the legislature. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Um but Okay. Last year budget do we approve paving for new roads for a million dollars?

So the committee has discussed this right. Um and I I think my other committee members too. I think we've we've asked some questions around uh how capital projects are funded and the history of capital projects in town. Um so capital funds are allocated yearly and budgeted yearly. They are accumulated in a capital account that is separate from the unrestricted general fund. Right? So there are they're restricted item. And then the town town administrator puts together a capital plan. And in our budget book, bear with me. You know what page that is?

You put a We usually put aside 125,000 for maintenance. Bear with me. My apologies. Have your

Yes. In page 23 of our current budget book. Yes. Here we go. People are able to look. Um in page 23, you will see that we have a five-year capital plan summary. So, um the the capital plan is a is essentially a plan, right? And we don't vote at the financial town meeting on those types of expenses. We are voting to allocate money into capital. Right. Right. The money is allocated into capital sits in the capital account and then projects are done out of the capital account.

Now we have asked about the paving as well and we have asked about how capital projects are planned and executed. Um, and I've been interested in this from a couple reasons. One is I think the reason you are raising right now, which is a transparency uh for the people in the town to understand how the town is funding projects and where it's spending money so people can feel like, you know, we have a financial town meeting that votes on moving money from the cell tower to someplace and the ambulance fund. We do all kinds of little things, but we don't seem to vote on a couple important things. And and so um my understanding from those conversations is is that the capital is allocated, then the town council will look at the capital plan with the town administrator and make a decision about what capital plan to execute. And from my discussions with the with with the folks here that are here over here, the our town administrator, our finance director, some town council members,

the paving plan, which I believe was enacted, and they'll have to correct me if I'm incorrect because I'm just going off my memory. I think in 2024, some beta is when they initially decided to do that. and our former town administrator provided them with capital numbers of accumulated paving capital numbers that you mentioned the town has a history and I think of allocating 125,000 sometimes more to paving in that capital plan. So at the financial town meeting we will have a stroke and it will be in here that will say capital but we didn't have a million dollar

we didn't last year. So but we will have a a a stroke that says capital. It will put a certain amount of money into a capital fund. That fund is funding capital projects that are possibly on this list as a plan, but they are not in stone. The town council then looks at the needs of capital in town and and uses that capital fund to pay for capital. It is from multiple years. It is but we didn't have that kind of money. Well, so not accumulated that kind of money and I think you know that and I know that. Yes. out there. If you look at what the time the financial town administrator provided the town council, he showed them I think a $1.4 million paving fund, right?

Which they approved, sent for bid and then in 2025 before we as a committee, which you were chair of at the time, realized that we had a significant structural deficit uh and had a significant problem with our budget book. uh they had approved a paving plan with Beta uh in a vote at the town town meeting. Uh and so the town council approved that. Now I personally town council didn't approve it. They've been through all the minutes. They never approved the paving project. Uh there was a there was a vote there was a motion and a vote to to to do that.

No, been through all of them and it's not there. It it is, but that's that's okay, George. Okay. Um, back proof. Uh, we can get you the meeting date. So, now what is it? March 6th.

March 6, 2025. So, George, I think what you raise is to me a very important point and I and the committee, we would like to see a change in the charter and we spent a lot I mean we must have spent 10 hours talking about charter changes and part of what we talked about was this exact topic of should the town at the financial town meeting should the town's people be voting on using the capital fund that's already funded taking that fund and then all and spending that money say for paving projects or for purchase of a firetruck or whatever it might be that it's used for. Should we have a stroke, a warrant article that we come in and people in the town approve that particular expense for that or do the town's people engage with the town council in their process of determining how the how capital is spent and come to meetings and then you know pay attention to what the town council is doing. I think that's an option for discussion that the town council, the charter review commission, and us, we can have. Um, but I would dispute the fact that there wasn't a vote because there was. Uh, you were correct that there was not $1.4 million in that capital fund. The the financial the financial town administrator at the time gave the town council incorrect information because the town's books were a disaster. Right.

Right. And so they voted, they sent out for bid and then voted to fund a paving project based on information they had at the time that ended up not being correct. Now I know Mr. Magnav has been very concerned about cash flow,

right? And there was a time in August where they were really concerned about the the amount of cash that the town had and could they pay their bills because our general fund had been depleted so low. And we had this project that you're referring to coming up which had bills associated with it. And I know that he structured payments to that company in a way that set preserved our cash flow. And that I I also know from talking to the town council and watching their meetings that there was some discussion of do you delay that? I remember I think we had this discussion last year, me and you had I think we had this discussion of the paving project last year. Do we cancel part of the project and and eat the cost of that or do we move forward? That's not our decision.

That was their decision. That is the that's the town council's decision. But but I would say that Mr. McM executed that plan really well. It was a capital plan. uh you know and we have roads that definitely I don't think people disputed the roads needed to be paved. I think people could dispute that they didn't that the information was not well resolved because of our books were in such a disaster and our our general fund had been absolutely depleted to a very dangerous level. The thing is I think on your recapitulation page I think some of your revenue numbers are very inflated. And so which revenue numbers are you talking about George? Beach. Yes, I agree. Beach is I think that number is you know if you can promise sunny days.

Yeah. And I think also the ambulance reimburseed those two I think those are very inflated. Now I will the ambulance reimbursement fund. I I will say that our fire chief and our police chief are exceptionally good at their jobs. Um, I talked to the fire chief when he was here and he said that they've been doing a lot more runs, a lot more calls than recent. And I believe that's why that number is higher. Big jump. It is, but he he mentioned a number of calls. Is it what multiplier is it? You remember? I don't exactly. I don't remember. But

they're doing a number of calls like sometimes in excess of four per day. It's it's a they they've got a what he said to us is and I've got it in our draft letter, which we'll talk about tonight, but the fire chief said that the number of calls and the dur and the and the the fact that we're getting calls year round more um they are really thankful that they have three people on on duty. Just saying we've had 140,000 there for years. You know, I think that's just stuck in there. Jump is is huge. I think that the beach from 3 to 380. Now the beach is a great that's a great point. So the beach commission um puts those numbers forward, right?

And last year the beach for the first time in a long time ran a deficit on their their expenditures because I think people in town are used to the beach basically being a revenue source for the town. Um and the the the parking lot storms it's smaller. Uh they've got they're dealing with still people on the co side. you know, if there's bad weather, you know, three years ago, I think it was so rocky. Last year was spectacular, but takes a while to catch up. But they're providing a budget estimate, and we've talked to them quite a bit about what assistance they need from the town and helping them project revenue. They don't have data or things to make those estimates from, but I will tell you that the beach expenses and the revenue are handled by the beach commission, right?

They provide those numbers. If for some reason that beach revenue was less, we would ex and we've talked to them about this. We specifically when they were here asked them about this. If they are seeing weather that's bad or attendance that's low, they have demandbased scheduling, right? And so they expect their expenses to be less. And I have impressed upon them that the town is still used to the beach being a revenue source.

Done. and that people in town need to understand that the beach is a resource of the town and not a revenue source necessarily and we can't maybe always count on a profit or you know from the beach every year to go back into the general fund which is where it's been going. Um and and um but the beach definitely needs to be discussed and there needs to be more coordination with our finance folks and the beach. But that's an area I think where town council could help the beach out quite a bit. They feel like they've been for the last 20 years or so kind of operating in the in the ether. Not I mean not getting a lot of direction and not being able to use their excess revenue to fund their rainy day fund, right? that that money that they have been generating, you know, $40,000 a year in surplus just goes into the general fund and they don't have say the ability to take that fund and then build themselves a parking lot fund up per se. That's a very large rainy day fund for that parking lot. So if something happens to it, then they would have the money,

right? which has been the concern I think of the committee is that there is a significant asset sitting on that southshore. We saw what a storm can do. Committee's very lucky we have Chris Wilky in town that can fix our parking lot for a quarter of the price of other bids. But if we had a bad storm, there was a breach on that beach, we're talking about several hundred,000 event. And where would the money come to open the beach up, right? So people could use the beach and also the revenue could be there. We don't have a good answer for that right now, George. Okay. Uh the other thing, last thing is delinquent taxes. Yes, that's a great topic. Yeah.

And what would you what would you like to I don't think there should be anything in there with delinquent taxes. Well, I I can tell you that um there's I we've we've inquired about this as well. Um, so, um, there's a couple different kinds of delinquent taxes and because I've been curious about this as well. Um, there are people who just there's like a month delay or so between the fiscal years and things that they don't their quarterly taxes are a little bit delayed for whatever reason. And so that it technically is counted as that. And then there's the real delinquent taxes. the town had not had a as you know uh we have because we've discussed this last year I think had $800 and some thousand dollars

$854 $854,000 in delinquent taxes that some people had not paid their taxes in 20 years or 10 years or so right I know the town sent uh I believe all of the tangible taxes out for collection that were late I believe they sent it they Right and they're they they are going to have a tax sale I've been told uh as Well, um, and so I think there's been significant progress on the delinquent taxes. But when John says this is his estimate and he gives he tells us why it's an estimate, I you know, it's an estimate, right? This is estimated revenue every year. Started in 20 at $80,000. It's been going up and up and up and up. Yeah. So last year it was

came to live. Yeah. Well, it was I think it was 300. What was it? 30 300,000 last year, John, you last year, 375 this year. What our actuals were on that? If you look at the balance sheet, you're looking at somewhere close to, uh, so at the end of 25, probably something close to 800,000. So, we estimated $300,000.

You look at the collections, uh, delinquent taxes in 26, we collected well over 500,000. There's a core in there of about a quarter of a million dollars of of hardcore delinquent taxes that we're going to be looking at at for a tax sale. There are also some agreements that have been made over the years for for some of these that we have to look into as well, but right now that's that's really where the core is. Our collection rate is certainly well above 98% on an annual basis. So, um, and again, we've been sending out delinquent notices, which is not done on a regular basis. We did that this year on a regular basis, and we continue to follow up on on a quarterly basis with delinquent taxes. So,

and so you base your $375,000 on what figure? I mean, you didn't just pull that out of the air. Well, some of that is going to be like you say those people that missed that fourth quarter payment or for some reason they wind up delinquent. So you wind up in July and August picking up uh some of those funds as well too. So during that period so we we continually look at that. So, um, you know, but we do there there are some hardcore that we have to look at from and and like you said, we haven't had a tax sale, so there should be some incentive when we put that in place.

I think that's a high number. Do you think $375,000 is an overestimate? Yeah. Don, do you revenue

do you feel like $375,000 is overestimated revenue for for delinquent taxes? Well, I've got the on the on the other side on the tax side, I've got a collection rate that's probably conservative. So, it it's going to probably wash itself up. Okay. So, so you feel like you're underestimating our actual collection rate and if you'll get probably because you're conservative there, you'll get a little more on the collection rate on that side which balances out the the I mean, how would you I these we we discussed this revenue stuff and George, you know this we just it's hard to come up with these numbers and figure out where those revenue those revenue sources are coming from like fees and things like that. These are these are generally just revenue estimates that you're that you're having to project, right?

Well, it's based on the levy. It's based on the collection rate. It's based on historical information. Uh, for example, if you look at the interest that's collected on delinquent taxes, always well above $100,000. We've got $100,000 plugged in there for the interest on the collection rate. So, I'm pretty comfortable with the number overall. And and would you expect as we do a better job with our informing people of their delinquency and collecting on that tax sale, do you think over time the town should expect that number to go down on delinquent tax collection or where do you like in for future revenue when when people are looking at these types of things?

Well, and some of them if you go to a tax sale then you'll wind up obviously eliminating that uh ongoing. I mean, there's a few that I can think of right now that uh certainly will improve after a tax collection after a tax sale. There's no question about it. So, um will we be down to 80,000? I don't know. You're talking about 16 million plus 164 in terms of total tax. So, and again under accounting pronouncements you have 60 days after year end to they pick up that revenue uh in the subsequent year and then they back out the uh 60 days from the prior year too. So there's some offset in terms of the revenue recognition for for budgeted purposes as well.

Last year's was 300,000 I believe. Yeah. Yep. I think yeah, George, it's one of these uh one of these estimates that we, you know, we get the best information we can from our people and it's in the in the numbers and we'll see where it shakes out. Just think they're high. Very high. Okay. Thank you. Do we have any more comments

micro road to corporate road? My question is can you make sure that you're speaking in the microphone please? My question would be on the homestead exemption.

Absolutely. it from documentation that I've seen circulating that we have approximately about 2,672 taxable parcels in town. My understanding that there's approximately about 1,800 homes that could potentially be eligible for this homestead exemption at at 1,800 out of the 2600 is my understanding. Uh Denise's told me when I called her a couple weeks ago and asked her what she had on numbers on that, she said there were about 1,450 qualified homes, but there will be more than that probably because we're the the law automatically qualifies people under certain conditions and then other people will have to apply. So yes, there there is some number of permanent residents and properties that will will work, but 1,400 somewhere 1,800 something like Yes.

So if all of the eligible properties apply for the homestead exemption, what would the credit be that the town would be allowing for? The homestead exemption as written this year will be 10% of the mean property value in town. So, it doesn't it's not based on how many people qualify for the homestead exemption. So, how are we going to how do we know? You're not going to base it. The homestead exemption is not going to be based off the amount of people that apply for is what you're saying.

The the as the law is written, the homestead exemption is a is this year uh and it's explained in the in the warrant article. The homestead exemption this year, as the law is written, is 10% of the mean taxable value of residential properties in town, which Denise has given us an estimate, I believe, of the mean property value of being $1.22 million. So that would put us at $120,000. This these are rough estimates, but somewhere in there per property. So my property, your property, if you qualify for the homestead exemption, your taxable value, you would see reduced by that amount, $120,000, and then the millage rate would be applied to that property. Yes.

So, okay. I was under the understanding that it was based on how many people actually apply to it. No. So if you look at the way the math works the what changes with the number of people that apply for the credit would be the function of where the what we would call the the break point is. So if you have a house and the way Denise has worked it out um 24

on age 24. Thank you so much. And then we have another uh estimate that there's two ways you can look at this. our we have a we're lucky to have a really great tax assessor who's very good at working with people in town. Um if you haven't got to meet Denise Costco, she's fabulous and she's put together this page here on 24. And then Jack here and Jim Lock put together they were they had a committee uh trying to think who was on their committee originally. I I served on the committee. Gary was on the committee. Jim and Jack and then who else was on the committee? waving in the oh

the niece was on the committee and then there was a committee then they had a group before that that worked on this but uh so Jim and Jack put together a sheet that's on page 25 that kind of helps explain this now again I would impress upon people that numbers like the millage rate or the exact number of property value the the temp the 10% is the law but this number will come out from the tax assessor So, um, you know, the break point at which a resident pays less under a homestead exemption or more under a homestead exemption will change based on the number of people who qualify for the homestead exemption. But the amount that people receive is not subject to that. It's not the way the math works. So, what would happen is is that let's say let's say a lot of people apply qualify for the homestead exemption. So, what would happen is is that maybe instead of a $3 million home basically being even, paying about the same amount they did with or without, that number might come down to a $2.5 million home is even, right? And and so the math doesn't affect your particular exemption. it would um the amount it would affect what the break point is. So your exemption would still be $127,000 or so off of your taxable rate and then you apply the millillage to that.

$127,000 off the evaluation. That's correct. Off off your off your taxable evaluation. That's correct.

So what so I guess there was a new paper that was circulated tonight that the rate is going to be what with the homestead please? Well, you know, again, and I would say that these are um estimates, right? Uh we won't know what that rate is until Denise finalizes it, but the proposed rate right now, I think, is 4.79, the millage rate. And just I think sometimes people I think underestimate like they they kind of mistake what millage rate really means to them. as properties go up in town and you know property values go up, our millage rate is going to go down, right? Just because your property value went up, but your taxes pretty much stay the same because your property tax went up, right? So, but what really impacts this too is is that we've added a lot of properties in town. There's been a lot of construction of ADUs and other things and that adds buildings and things that are taxable. So, that adds property value. So that's more than that's a little different than say your property value goes up and your millage rate goes down. Now we're adding we're adding a couple hundred million dollar say of new properties to town or 100 you know with the property value. So that would reduce our military

right? So what would the mill rate be without the homestead exemption? Well, I can tell you that based on Jim's numbers here before we got this tonight, the millage rate would was going to be something in the 20 cents more with than without, right? So, it would be I would say that's a decent number to look at. I'm not sure. Do you know the number with and without off the top of your head, John? Uh Denise did another calculation today. I think it was going to be around 468, right? 68 cents. 468 no homestead 479 with the homestead. No, you guys you guys need to get on the same page.

No, no, it's an estimate.

It's an estimate and it makes absolutely no difference in the homestead exemption amount, right? It doesn't change your credit. It doesn't change your tax bill. I I think that's what you need to understand is that the millage rate is a function of how much your property is worth, right? And how the millage rate is going to change and go up and down, right? And so yes, if my property goes way up in value or way down in value, it affects me personally. But in town, the mill rate and the property values move together. So, the homestead exemption, the way it's designed, is really independent of property values because we're using the 10% mean property value in town, not a fixed number. And because it's not a fixed number and it's a percentage, it moves with those values. And so, your numbers are going to stay very consistent with those credits. The thing that will impact your particular properties, whether how much your taxes are more or less with the homestead exemption, is the number of people who qualify. The less people that qualify, the larger that that discount will be. The more people that qualify, the less the discount would be. And so, for example, a right now a half a million dollar home is expected to see around $500 less in taxes on their tax bill will be $500 less with a homestead exemption than it would be without a homestead exemption. Now, that could be $400 or that could be $550 depending on how many people apply and and receive the homestead exemption. But the amount of credit which is 127,

thou or 10% of their value is fixed and it will float. And so it doesn't it's if if your homes are more valuable, you're going to get a larger credit. It's going to be multip that but your value is multiplied by that millage rate. So I think you have to be very careful with um just thinking about a millage rate as a number because it's it's a number in context. Okay, I got to go back and and look at that because I look at this and I look at this sheet and it there was a sheet that says that we were all going to get I believe was a $610 or $635 credit, but then you look at the rentals and then it shows something different.

Well, right. I think there's a like I think if you look at page 24 and page, this is the only page I got. So, I think some people have the book with is the book been circulated out. They're all out.

Yeah. So, the book is out there. So, um Denise on page 24 shows this a little differently than I had originally conceptualized it, but I I understand why she's showing it this way. She's taking $127,000 and applying a millage rate to that and saying, "Right, if we take that off, here's what your credit is, right?" And then she applies your tax bill. And then um and then she says based on your tax bill, here's your percent savings on that bill. And that percent savings decreases as your property value goes up until at some point because your property value is so is is hits a threshold. You pay slightly more in taxes than you would if you if there wasn't a homestead exemption, right? So it's not an even savings across all properties. the savings is greatest at the lower property values and less at the higher property values. It's a bit of a difference from say some other towns have a straight percentage of all properties receive a homestead exemption of say 30%. Right? Uh that benefits people with very large properties much greater than people with very small properties. This homestead exemption is really the opposite of that. It benefits people who have lower valued homes over people who have much higher valued homes.

You also have the part where there's going to be you're going to be looking to charge people that are secondary homes to to make up for this. Correct.

A home the way a homestead exemption works is if you qualify with exemption, you get an exemption off your property values. If you don't qualify, you don't get that exemption. And the net effect is is that because you have to subtract out all the exempted rates, you end up with a slightly higher millage rate. So 11 cents more or so, what whatever it might be, 20 cents, 11 cents more, you apply. So what ends up happening is is people who do not live in town and say have a summer home here or they rent their home as an Airbnb or something like that, right? They will pay the non-resident property tax which doesn't have the exemption. It's the same millage rate. It's the same everything. It just doesn't have an exemption on it. Right? If you rent your house, if you own a property and rent it around 12 months a year, your property qualifies for that exemption. So, if if someone is someone has someone in their home 12 months a year, whether they rent it or if it's just occupied 12 months a year, they qualify for that exemption. And that's something the committee, I can't remember, I think that was Gary's idea or Jim, somebody came up with the idea of trying to make sure that we incentivized uh long-term full-time rental properties and it was really important to the committee that that that happened and that's the mechanism that's written into the statute to allow that to happen.

Page 25 will show you for non-resident use your microphone. Sorry. Page 25 will show the estimates for what the non-residents will pay extra beyond.

Yeah. And and that's a great point. And Denise Denise Oh, Denise P. I think it's in green if my eyes are correct. But it says tax bill with homestead exemption. That is you can see that that right there is anyone who doesn't is not does not qualify. That's their tax bill. Then if you go to your right um you know or no no tax bill 2026 tax bill blue is people who don't qualify. The green is the people that do qualify for their tax bill. Right. And then all the way to the right is if it doesn't pass uh what the tax bill would be.

Has this committee done an impact study on this overall plan and how this could affect us potentially in years to come? What do you mean affect us? How is this as far as whether this will work or not based on our our current on our situation, our financial situation, how we run everything in this town.

I So I will say that that the committee that I was on with Gary and Jim and Jack and Denise, uh we came to town council, presented at town council. They had a couple hearings. Uh it is revenue neutral, so it changes the the taxable revenue in town not one bit. It's the exact same amount of property tax levy that you get with and without a homestead exemption. It makes no difference whether you have a homestead exemption or do not to the revenue of the town. The town's revenue is exactly the same. So, did you model this after another town? Did you model this homestead? What we're we're talking about was that modeled after another town?

Another town. No. No. We looked at 10, I think 10 towns homestead exemptions. And then we looked at the uniqueness of Little Compton because Little Compton is an outlier in almost every town when it comes to property values and the number of full-time residents. We do not look like almost any other town. So from what I understand that you're saying that your your smaller committee basically came up with this plan not based on another town but there was no independent uh impact study done for this to I don't understand what you mean by

to see what what this will do to us. I mean you didn't put another set of eyes on the plan that you are presenting to us right now. That's what I uh No, I think that the committee put it together. The town council approved it. state legislature looked at it and voted and and unanimously approved it. What else would you look for there? Well, you always put it in a second set of eyes and everything to see people look at things from different points of view. Oh, I I seems like three sets.

I think we had three set plus we had the public at two different public hearings discussing it. I mean the committee I also did not operate in a vacuum. I know that many members of the committee spoke to a lot of people and talked to people in town about like and and thought about this from different perspectives, but to suggest that somehow there wasn't a quote unquote impact study or that there wasn't a second set of eyes, there were lots of eyes on this from lots of different perspectives. And I think that now the question is before the financial town meeting of whether the town's people, which is another set of eyes, wishes to have this or not. That's the question before the financial town meeting.

So our current budget right now is it doesn't make a difference whether it's a homestead or not a homestead. Uh what you're telling us is that it covers all of our expenses going forward. That is correct. So again, it doesn't change is raised, right? is who pays it, right? So with the homes, it just paying that whose tax bill is big and and it's bottom line is the same. You raise the same amount of money.

It's a small it's a small I mean we're not cutting people's tax bill in half, right? It's it's reducing somebody's tax bill by 25% if they have a very small home, maybe 10 or 15%. But it's meaning it's meaningful. But I think what maybe Mike's trying to allude to is that you say we give a million dollars in credits to the residents. You're going to do a million dollar debit to the non-residents to offset it. So there's no tax difference, but by impact, I haven't heard one discussion tonight about how to the non-residents going to feel about it. So, if you have other communities that have done something like this, what did the non-residents think about it? Did they sell? My feeling is that these once they get a new bill, tax bill higher, they might be more apt to do Airbnbs to offset these taxes.

But MBs aren't aren't part of the tax. But if I'm a non-resident and my tax bill goes up by, let's take another. It's 10% the first year, it can be 15% the following year, then it can be 15% every year. So, if I'm a non-resident and every year I get hit with a 15% increase, how am I going to feel about that?

Well, and what can I do about that? And is that going to make me more apt to rent my house out as an Airbnb during the summer, which then creates more problems for the neighbors? So, by impact, I wasn't looking at it from a financial point of view. It's what's the impact going to be non-financial because it's a it's an offset, right? I'm going to get a credit, somebody else is going to pay.

Yeah. So, I think I think the committee the committee the committee that that I was on, not this committee, but the committee that I was on discussed this type of thing quite a bit. And again, it's a that's that's one of the reasons I think that and I can't remember who came up the idea to bracket it so that you cannot have some type of large change at one financial town meeting. It's bracketed and I I'm sorry I just can't remember whose idea, but it was really I think a an idea of stability so that people know what to expect. And I think one of the benefits that people who do have summer homes in Little Compton have is that their tax bill for Little Compton is a third of say other towns. And so we're not talking about a large change in someone's tax bill. What we're talking about is is a small change across the whole tax bill, but it is and it is redist it is moving that and it makes a small difference 10% 15% 25% at the smaller home value area uh to people in a way that is meaningful and it is a philosophical discussion I think whether that is something people want to have or not have but mathematically it doesn't impact the town's budget. But I think Scott raises a good point in that, you know, how it's it's a difficult population of people to survey because they don't come to town council meetings and they don't come to these types of meetings very often. Occasionally, I'll see, you know, when I'm at town council, you'll see somebody show up for a when I think the short-term rental ordinance, we had some out of town people who own short-term rentals come, but uh you know, it's it's an it's a question open for the financial town meeting. Again, I think the way this was structured was committee reviewed it, came up with suggestions, town council passed, had a couple public hearings, passed it, went to the legislature, legislature passed it, and it was designed to have a vote at the financial town meeting so that

people would have a voice in it. So, it wasn't just something that came out of the town council. And I thought that was a very, very good design that was that was come. Let me just if I could just piggy back on what Scott just said about the the one the $1 million uh credit and then you got to debit the the the $1 million. As you know, come July one, there's going to be the new millionaire's tax in in the state of Rhode Island. So, somebody that's here in town that has a $2 million home, they're going to end up getting whacked another $5,000 on top of No, that's not actually correct.

Well, they're going to get a $1 million. It's It's $5. It's It It's The math doesn't work. It's not on the entire property.

No, you get the first million dollars is is is exempt. So, a $2 million property, you get $1 million of that exempt. Then you get charged for the second million. It comes out to $5,000. On a $3 million home, it comes out to $11,000. So I what I'd like to know is from the committee standpoint, has the committee taken into consideration, so if I was an out of town resident, I had a summer home here and I said to myself, hey, I'm going to get charged an extra five grand in taxes on top of my town taxes every year. Why don't I just change my residency to Little Compton? I save five grand. Now that five grand a year that that person, well, I'm sorry, that five grand would be paying to the state, not to the town. um as part of their their millionaire tax. So if they said, "I'm going to become a resident of Little Compton. I'm going to save my $5,000." That extra money that you would have been charging that person because they would have been part of the group that was supplementing the credits. You're going to lose that that money that's being offset on the

Yeah. So what end what would end up happening in that case would be that the the break even point or that break point would slide down as more people qualify for the homestead exemption but it does not change the total tax levy because that's that number is independent of anything. So it would it would bring down the break even point no matter what you look at it. You're gonna have credits and you have to offset the credits. Yeah. You don't have enough people to offset the credits, right? If more people say, you know something, I'm gonna become resident of Little Compton because I don't want to pay that extra tax of the state. How is that going to be handled?

Well, that the system automatically recalculates. So what would end up happening is is that your homestead exemption, right, that the break point, right, that where the property value is either getting le is slightly less or slightly more than the year before with or without an exemption would just slide down. That's all that would happen. No work is really required to deal with that. It's just that the number of homes that would qualify would increase. It's it's not dependent on a particular event to happen and all of a sudden you don't have the revenue. That's not how that works. It's

when you have more homes that qualify that means that they're getting more credits. Correct.

No, it's not based that way because it's not a credit. And I think that's that's something that people have to understand. It's a it's a deduction off of your taxable values. because it's a deduction off of your taxable values, you end up with a slightly higher millage rate for everyone. And so if you get the homestead exemption, right, you take a percentage off of your total home value and you apply the millage rate. If you don't get the homestead exemption, you apply the millage rate. So there is no like no one's given a credit to someone and then having to get a credit from someone else. It's just the millage rate is applied to your property. The only question is is does your property have an exemption on it or not? That's the only question.

And in an extreme case, if if you think about it this way, if everybody in town decided, I don't want to pay this. I'm going to declare residency in Little Compton, then this exemption would be worth nothing, right? It wouldn't matter. That's what that's what I'm I'm wondering cost people anymore either. wouldn't cost them any more if we'd all just divide how we pay the tax collection differently, right? It's it would it literally would not so that that break even it would literally slide down to where it would have a null effect of if you didn't have an exemption or did have an exemption would all be the same. So the very similar to what we have right now, right? Correct. Yeah. We don't we I guess

but that's an extreme case, right? Everybody that lives in this town is not going to decide that would be amazing where their residency. I think it would be amazing if we had a town of two 2,500 permanent residents. This town would be popping. We would have restaurants and we would it would be it would be amazing to have a town with 2500. Yes, sir. Just just one question up to the microphone. Pete, you're on TV. It doesn't m It doesn't matter. Nobody can hear you on TV. Yeah, I may get your ST

again. Uh the we're going to have all this in the town hall. Who's going to do all this paperwork? Uh that's that's a great question and the committee grapple with this intensely. We've set the system up to where people automatically qualify. Automatically qualify. very very few people will have to actually come in and do any application at all. So s as long as you are a registered voter right you qualify. We we've set this up so it is a low administrative burden. We have thought about that because to us that was very very important. Jim Lock would like to come up as well. He's stay over there. Can't stay over there. You got to share the mic.

You two might not realize that all these people know each other so well. So the best time raise the microphone. So So my name is Jim Lock. Raise the microphone so you can talk loudly. I've spent some time working on this and this is a complicated problem and a lot of questions and good questions have been asked and what I'd like to do is have somebody put the sheet that Jack hair and I put together because in order for people to understand the issues, they need to understand the process by which this occurred. So, can you do that for me, John? Can do that.

It isn't really so much the numbers at the end of the day. So, let's go through this in a structured fashion. This year, the total property tax revenue is $15.6 million approximately. And all of these numbers are estimates and they're all going to change sometime at the end of of May or in June, although I don't think they're going to change more than 2 or 3%. Second of all, next year's property tax value will increase by 4%. 16.2 million. So those two numbers are a little bit etched in stone. Something very important happened this year. Thank goodness to um to Denise and others, the total assessed property and values in this town have increased by $140 million from 3.26 billion to 3.40. That's very important because if the total property that's assessed in town goes up, the millage rate necessary to generate $16.2 2 million goes down. Okay. So, the millage rate has gone down and it's it may actually gone down. My number is according to what Denise has produced is not quite right. Uh but it's close. The status quo would state that if the homestead exemption is not passed, the rate gen needed to generate $16.2 million is 4.76. Now Denise's new numbers are what? 4.68.

Uh yeah,

something like that. So the numbers are going to be off by one or 2% depending on exactly how much the mil uh property values change. So that would be 4.76 for all 267 2,672 tax parcels. If the homestead exemption passes, the millillage rate, as Mike pointed out, has to go up. In order for the revenue of the town to stay even, if we're going to provide a tax benefit to some residents in town, the millage rate has to go up. So, if it's passed, the millage rate will go up from 4.76 to 4.95. You're you're probably going to tell me it's going to be 4.90 or something like that.

I'm going to tell you it's going to be the same 4.79. No, no, no. Calculation

if we Is it going to be 4.79? Anyhow, so the millage rate has to go up for the revenue of the town to stay the same. Now, as a as um Andy just pointed out, the vast majority of people who qualify for the homestead exemption will be collected from the tax rates. Everybody who is a taxpayer in this town is automatically qualified to be a homestead exemption. First of all, you don't have to apply. And second of all, the number of people who qualify for the homestead exemption mostly already determined by the tax rate.

Jim, it's the voter record.

I'm sorry. The voter act voter registration determines of everybody that's a tax rate. There will be some people who will apply who aren't voters who can con show that they're taxpayers and full-time residents, but that number we think is going to be very small. Under that circumstance, then if the millage rate goes up, the um assessed value of the town will go down by t uh the assessed value of the home used for tax purposes only will drop by uh $127,000, which means that uh everybody in town will get $630 off of what they would have gotten. But if you go to the next page, they won't get 630 because their tax bill will go up somewhat based on the fact that there's a an increase in the millage rate to keep the amount of revenue in the town equal. So if you go to the next page, if somebody has $300,000 of assessed value, they don't get 630, they get 575 back. and that 570 the difference between the 630 and the 575 is to make sure that the town revenue is stayed constant. So those are the that's the basic structure for how this works. And to Andy's point, um Gary is the person who insisted that we apply this tax break to full-time res uh renters. Money doesn't go to the renter. The money goes to the landlord.

And that was to keep it so that they weren't turning into short-term. They would keep it so that Chris would be in town on a yearly basis. We felt like I think at the committee when when this was brought up, we felt like it was a a substantial idea because it really it benefits people are renting their homes year round. It makes sure that they get the same benefit as if they lived in that home.

So Mike asked Mike Roachcha asked is anybody else doing this? And the answer is no. There are two forms of homestead exemptions in this state. one is a straight percentage on the value of the house which of course as as Andy pointed out will give the largest tax benefit to the people who own the most expensive houses. The second way that it's done is in Central Falls and somewhere else where they give a straight dollar amount. Okay? And the problem with that plan is that if you get a straight dollar amount, if you get $500 off, as property values go up, that number has to change. It becomes irrelevant. So th the plan that this this plan does not require us to go back to the state legislature to increase the dollar amount of the uh tax breaks for full-time residents. Now, all of these numbers are going to change. That's why I put estimates in red everywhere you can see. And the only thing we know for a fact is that these numbers are going to change, but they're not going to change by more than 2%. I don't think anybody have any questions.

Jim's meeting. Thank you, Jim. Okay. Do we have any more comments? Oh, is this an auction? Do we go in once here with no comments? How do we how do we get people to come up and give a comment? All right. Hearing none, I think we'll close the public hearing then. If anyone has no comments, we'll close the public hearing. I want to thank everybody for coming. This is a great attendance by the way. Um, not as good as last year, but that was different. Um, but I I do appreciate people's attendance, and I really appreciate those of you who have been coming to our budget committee meetings. Uh, and I would encourage you to talk to your friends and neighbors and people in town and ask them to please come to the financial town meeting. uh and and and be part of the process. And so we'll close the public hearing. Thank you so much.

Agenda real quick. Thanks. makes a good valid point a couple things, but I also just am annoyed that someone who it's just but he makes a good he makes a couple really good points. He does, but he's lecture. Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. Said on this committee, right? But he makes I mean a couple of his points

metal roof spectacular maintenance.

I redid it and that was expensive. I didn't realize they took them down every winter. I hear there. And I'm sorry. I should I used to help him take it down every winter and put it back up because it's like a th That was very smart. That was very I David didn't know that either. Yeah. The little thing that goes in the middle that just blew off in the storm. Yeah, they they they didn't set up though. I mean, they really knew what they were doing. Have a good night. Oh, you've already taken it. Could you, you know, some kind of I would attend. I would attend. Yes. If you're looking at the draft minutes from Oh, I don't see him. Make sure you read.

I don't have them. I left I left work late. I'm sit here and read this. I can sit by your mic. It's cold. I've got the mic off. But you're mentioned and I I'm not sure that it's correct. What? No, you're mentioned. You just ah

You're going to have increase in that budget. Okay, you're on.

All right, everybody. Thank you. Thank you very much. Hello. Thank you very much, folks. Thank you.

Okay. Just gonna kick S out. No. Okay. Thank you for coming. All right. So, we'll go to um item number seven, review and vote to approve minutes from 4212026. Scott, you were not here, but you are eligible to vote if you wish. Does anybody have any uh comments or corrections on the on the minutes? No. Go ahead. I'd like a motion motion once. So move a second. Second do it. Jennifer

I All right. Any comments? Correct. Hearing none. All those in favor? I abain. Yeah, I'll abstain. No. I mean, so we have uh Scott abstain. Yeah. Okay. Item number eight, discuss and vote on warrant items and budget articles. Um, can I get a consensus on how the committee would like to proceed on our on our items? Do we want to block these and vote on them? Do you want to go by one by one again? I I don't object to want to block.

All right. But let's Scott, you were not here. So I would like you to have as much voice as you possibly feel that you I have don't have a problem with the block. The only thing that I would like to discuss is 58 which is it and the only reason for that is because they were supposed to meet right. We never met. Yeah. Well we're lucky he's here now. Well that's when I told him tonight I think it would be a great opportunity to Hey a nice opportunity to have a discussion. I think I think it's a great idea. So is that the only one you wish to pull out? That is correct. Okay. Is that should we pull three considering that we is in the negative? Yes, I think we pulled three out because I'd like to offer an amend talk about an amendment to three at the financial town meeting.

Uh to make that more and we have lucky we have town at least we have Bob still here and is Pat Oh, they're still here. Yep, they're over there. So we're gonna we're going to pull number three and we voted preliminarily at the last meeting. We're going to pull it out, discuss it again. Eight glasses and three. Anything else? Okay. So, can I get a um can I get a motion to pull those out and to block the rest? Make a motion to pull those two out. Scott made a motion to pull three and 58 out and a second from Corey. All those in favor? Okay.

Okay. Uh would you want to discuss those first? You want to dispatch the other ones first? What would you motion to um you want to how do you want to dis motion to approve all the items except for the ones we pulled out three and 58? Second. Second from I need a motion. So moved. Okay. Oh J. Now you can second it. Thank you. Second. Any discussion? We the committee went through these one by one in our last meeting so everybody's aware that we're not just randomly like improving. Uh well, I'll just saving you for the homestead

that I'm going to vote in favor of it because I think there's it's going to help some of the individuals in this town that need help on their property tax. Yeah. But I see problems later on that we can deal with. But I think right away there'll be some people that have houses that aren't valued under under half a million that'll get a great discount on their property taxes, the senior citizens and other people in this town. So I think it is it is specifically designed for that population, Scott, and thank you for that. Any other discussion? All those in favor? I

opposed. Unanimous. Thank you. Okay. So, which one do you want to tackle first? 58 or three? Okay. We're going to work from hardest to the least of our I was gonna say 58. We have our person here now. Let's do let's do I asked I gave it um so we pulled 58 out. to no uh no fault of anyone. We've been wanted to ask a few questions IT director and just had trouble scheduling and whatnot. It's 21. Thank you. All right.

source that generating revenue and sell signals for people to be able to use their phones and we're getting revenue for it, right? That source is accumulating money over time and it sits in the cell tower reserve fund, right? or spell tower fund or whatever you want to call it tower. Daryl Tower fund. Then there's this thing called 512 which I'm just going to call it that because it makes a little bit more sense to me to call it by that number. That is essentially a nebulous thing that is there but not there at the same time. Right? It's zeroed out unless someone says we need to exercise it. Then they go get some money from this self tower bucket and they put it in the reserve fund bucket and then they use it for that purpose.

Right? And then it stipulates in article three that then they have to pay it back the next year. That's right. And and so that limits to some extent we need to the council would look at and again I can't even cite a case in which we needed to use this. But the council would look at the revenue that we got last year from the cell tower and say well it brought in X and we want to use 0.9x. So yes, we are confident it will be replenished next year and the reserve fund will will resto will be restored. So so so it could be replenished by the cell tower revenue the next year. So not paid back. Well, but but it's the same. Yeah. So

Oh, it would it would be moved out of the cell tower fund into the reserve fund. Y and then expended for whatever reason. And the the the question was how do we assure that whatever it was we used gets restored. It doesn't get put back into the reserve fund because we've satisfied the need for that. So it goes into the cell tower. So so the cell tower fund has about $280,000 in it right now. Okay.

Um and there is no like and so I think in 2005 when the cell tower fund maybe was in its infancy, you could say moving money in and out makes sense. But let me ask you this question. Let's say we have some type of terrible storm down at the beach and we have $150,000 worth of damage to the beach. Do you feel that a $280,000 cell phone account was essentially built up over time should be accessed for something that's a that's an an emergency expense to allow the town to fix it right when that happens without having to have another financial town meeting. Fix it. Now, the question then is the next year, do you need to put the money back into the account that you spent, which is what it says, $150,000?

Well, I realize it sounds like I'm uh uh watch both hands because one of them actually will leave. Uh but there's a sense in which the way the wording says the council may authorize borrowing from the reserve fund in anticipation of taxes ordered to cover provided however such borrowing should be repaid by the fund at the latest by appropriation at the next financial town meeting and to my knowledge and Mr. Anderson has been watching this longer than I, but he can probably shed some light on it. But I I don't believe that we have had a circumstance in which we needed the following year to reimburse the cell. But I I realize we haven't, but what I'm saying is that given that we don't have a lot of liquid money in the town, I I don't think that we could if we wanted to in that scenario, say $150,000 emergency, the town wouldn't be capable of refunding it the next year. It would be not possible for the town to put that money back in. It would be because the town literally doesn't have the room in its budget to to do that because Right. And so, so you have this $280,000 that next year will be 320. The next year will be 40,000 more. It's like it's it goes up every year.

Why is it doing that? Why is it's never used for anything. It's sitting there accumulating. Not not the not the debt that's owed, the amount that's there. The amount that there is going up every year, right? And I'm

Why is that then a problem? Well, it's a great thing if it's a rainy day fund and you have an emergency and you can tap it on this rare occasion that you have an emergency and you always have a you have revenue coming in fill in a rainy day fund and then you have this rainy day fund that gets bigger and it helps. I think that's a spectacular idea. My only conundrum with the thing is is that if you need to tap it for a true emergency, you you basically use it, borrow against it, and then have to fill it back up the next year. not say that this was an emergency if one time every 10 years this happens and we're going to let it build back up over time knowing that right that was an emergency. My concern is is that I would think that you would that we could set this stroke up for this warrant article to essentially allow the use of it for emergencies that could be with maybe like you could let the account accumulate forward again. The question is is do you put the burden on the taxpayers the future year to pay it all back if it's a because to me it we're not dealing with a $10,000 or $50,000 possibility here. We're dealing with if you had a gigantic storm and you need to fix the beach or if I don't know something happened in the police or fire and they needed a piece of equipment, we need to just buy it for them, right? It's a capital piece of equipment

and they aren't going to need it again because we bought it for them. So that they got their new truck instead of two years from now. They had to have it because it broke and we we used that money for it. Do you expect then the next year us to put into the budget, fill in the reserve fund, I mean that the cell tower fund back to $280,000, right? And then basically taxing people to put that money back into that account when it's a revenue generating account. That's my that's my conundrum with article three. It's not that I don't I think having a rainy day fund that is built up $40,000 a year is a spectacular idea. And I think that we we because especially now that the town has so little liquid cash, you know, and and we don't have the beach does not have, for example, has never built up that rainy day fund for that possible event that at some point will likely happen, right? and and so they have no ability to say tap a fund that is perpetually slowly building for the sole purpose of fixing the parking lot or I I just I just see it as if there is an emergency need in town can we use it in a way that doesn't permanently deplete the fund and then let it slowly build up again so it is a rainy day fund so that people are like wow that was a bad event but I'm glad we had that savings account to fix that I don't have to think about that anymore. That event is in the history, right? Not gosh, we have to think about it again next year because we got to pay that bill.

Right. I I understand the uh in the ca in the type of case that you're speaking of where where I've now depleted the entire corpus of whatever it was was my emergency fund. And now I don't have one anymore. So, I really need to re to refund it. and I look at my cell tower revenue and say I'm not going to be able to do it simply by dribbling that in. I I don't without real you know current numbers I don't know uh if there's a a quick answer to that question. Perhaps the budget committee's um endorsement or or action on this stroke could be to express that in a manner that says uh you know we what whatever you decide you want to do with your recommendation. Let's say you decide we recommend that this be uh put before the people and and uh but we're going to stop short of recommending it because we want to insist the following kind of uh wording that ensures its refund. That would be my proposal tonight is that we we don't recommend it, but we offer an amendment to it uh at the Financial Town meeting that it's structured in a way that does not authorize just the expense of this account because it's got money in it, but authorize it to be used as a rainy day fund if something was to happen and not burden the tlet. It's the way I look at my savings account at home that our emergency fund at home that if something was to happen, we would definitely want to continue to put money back in that account over time. Yes,

we wouldn't want to have to go do it in one year because the reason we build it up slowly in town over time was to deal with that traumatic event that happens and you just get past it. In anticipation of this, it occurred to me also we are undergoing a charter review process right now. We could rewrite this article to to embed that within it. That doesn't obviously solve it in time to get it in. But my thought was is that we do both is that because the charter review commission, two of us are on the charter review commission. We've struggled with this thing a lot. Okay. Okay.

Trying to figure out what the 512 is, what its purpose is, what the cell like the language between reserve capital like it's just been difficult and and and I appreciate that you actually were here when it got started so that we can understand it because I think that that context I think Bonnie and and Leslie and and um all of us

all yeah all of our other members really need to hear that context of charter review be very helpful. It's fair to say that this article uh appeared in the budget fir for the first time because of the fact that the charter requirement was um not specific in that area. And so it we we happened not happened upon we seized upon the cell tower revenue as being there's our source. Yeah. And I acknowledge that were it to be applied to a problem that's a whole lot bigger than one year's cell tower revenue that that doesn't uh allow replenishment in the following in the following fiscal year.

Can I what is the advantage of having the cell power revenue be separate? Why doesn't it just go directly into this fund? Sorry, the question was posed to the Well, no. I mean that's the struggle that Bob, we have no answer to that question. We have we have our our thought was is why don't we just cons consol it appears by the way in the accounting records they have been consolidated. Yes. Right. I acknowledge that. Yes. But for me it you got it. I'll be right

again. It was opportunistic certainly on my part because we were in a uh this is the next round of cell tower discussions. We didn't want the first cell tower you proposed. actually the council had changed in the inter room and so there was different personnel involved. So we decided that we would take an approach that says let's anticipate that problem and say why do we need a cell tower? We think we need a cell tower for a whole lot of reasons. Some of you think that it's simply what everybody else is doing and ought not to be a focus of ours. We're willing to say we think of it it important enough that we'll put in place a process and so we put the stroke in the next year's warrant and it's been there ever since. And once in a while a budget committee or someone will say what why why did we do it this way? And and I acknowledge we could go back and and dress it up.

Well, and I will I will also state that when I moved here in 2008, we drove around looking for the rental property. We ended up renting and there was no cell phone service for us. It was one of the most enjoyable 2hour adventure I've ever had in my entire life because because the roads here were not labeled. It was we had a blast and the person we rented from was horrified and I said, "No, no, you don't understand. This has been great. We found like this is been spectacular." And so it is nice to actually have for it depends on who you have service with whether you get it from here or over there. But but um it's been that cell tower is actually a spectacular town resource.

Well and and the church steeple was part of the problem because they were their service provider who at the time I yeah I mean it was whoever it was then but

you know they were providing great service. Verizon, I think, was perhaps the first on the tower at the at the transfer station and they they were coming in second. So, it it every every time we turn make another turn in the process, it would it would pose another problem. So, I would be grateful if the committee were to find a way to include it, but if there are constraints on it, I don't see any problem at all on that. So I'll take I'll take as a complicate B's reference to my historical uh memory if we want to put it that way about past past events but uh uh but so when so I have attended I see the the club is all here of those who have attended all virtually all the meetings when either the budget committee or the charter review commission has has discussed this uh this issue uh without a clear understanding of what is involved and um so to but but I am concerned when I came away from your previous meeting when you voted to uh recommend to reject article three I I I put my uh time moderator's hat on and asked myself what does what does that procedurally at the meeting. Uh what what was it you were trying to achieve by proposing to reject this article which which uh sort of echoes Bob's concern. Is that is that what you is that what your intent was? I will just um sort of add to to Bob's history when I look back at this and you know part of my historical memory depends on

the fact that I have an extensive archive including uh all the budget committee reports for the last 40 years. So I I worked back uh uh so the this this uh charter section 512 I I also was at all the original charter commission meetings in 1994. So I was there for those this this language was in the original charter numbered 511. In 2000 it was amended because they added a new section 512. So this became 512. So, this is this has been in the charter from since 1994. To Bob's point, I I don't find it appearing in the uh warrant until 2009, which was was within a a couple of years after the the cell tower that we have was approved, which was approved at a special town meeting just for that purpose late in the year. So, the revenues didn't they didn't come in for a while. So the the provision was there all the time in the charter and the council implemented it for the first time in 2009. So what 14 or 15 years after we have the charter and it's been there ever since. But um uh I we've read this I've read this over and over again and the current language has so many conditions for different scenarios almost every one of which involves financial town meeting approval. I mean, not just the not just the amount that goes in, which is what you're authorizing here, but how it can be used uh in uh entitles the town meeting to put limits on those uses. And then the distinction between the emergency uses and the capital uses there, different conditions all along. And just listening to John at the last meeting, there was

still confusion about a cell tower fund and a and a um and a re a special and and the reserve fund where the money was going and I'll just make one more. Well, anyway, so my my concern was in terms of the procedure, Tommy, what you can do, you can uh propose to the voters that they simply reject it, saying vote no on on the article. This the article is worth it to authorize the reserve fund to receive up to $100,000. It doesn't say $70,000. It says up to $100,000. That will go, I guess. Does that mean 100,000 if it's 22 $20,000? Anyway, that's a somewhat nebulous thing. So the the the article is a is a positive authorization. So in effect, if you're saying reject, you're saying you're going to advise the voters to vote no on this article. The other options that I've contemplated were that you could move to table it, which a town meeting uh means that unless a tabled motion uh is brought back by the end of that meeting, it expires at the end of the meeting. So, it's it's it's effectively rejecting it and it expires. It doesn't come back at next year's town meeting. That's another motion or and I don't want to get in the business of of proposing amendments or as you suggested um it may be in order to amend this article. My only concern is that the reserve fund is a is a specifically authorized fund in the charter and I think we need to ask the solicitor whether

it's legally appropriate to create another fund not called that doesn't invoke the reserve fund language at town meeting. I would I mean my thought was is that a if if there was such an emergency and you needed to use this money and then do you have to have another do you have to a special financial town meeting for such emergency and if you did you could just authorize the use of the cell tower fund for that emergency without even mentioning 512. 512 could be silent and you could use the the cell phone reserve the cell phone tower fund. The cell phone power fund is a fund that has $280,000 in it. It is not 512. Those are separate things. The cell phone power account is its own account. That's a revenue. It has revenue coming into it. 512 is an account with nothing in it that you can take from the cell phone tower and place into 512, but then has all of those restrictions and contingencies associated with it. And then they could be expended. Well, the current article specifically cites section 512.

No, it it's saying that you can take money from the cell tower fund, move it into 512, and then be used, right? But it has all these restrictions associated with it, right? of how it could be used. It has to be paid back the next year

to authorize the reserve fund to receive up to $100,000 on the accumulated I think that would be important. Um

then you're simply uh getting around the restrictions. Excuse me. It's simply uh this is a this is a a separate appropriation of a source of funds for purposes tuition. It Yeah. My my point would you wouldn't appropriate the expense of it. You would allow the expense of it in an emergency situation. You would allow the use of that accumulated surplus to be used for that emergencies without the requirement for the taxpayers to pay it all back the next year.

Right. You're you're you're add this is you're adding a condition, you know, you're adding conditions that are in 512. So I I guess problem this is sites 512. I think you need to consider what you're saying. A a dedication of if cell phone tower revenues you will define that doesn't mention 512. That would be an amendment that you might consider. The the only the other complication I wondered about though is that your your capitulation uh estimated revenue,

that's the revenue he's booking the revenue coming and the reason he's doing that he's book the revenue comes into town and it goes into that dedicated account for it. It's booked revenue. Okay? So, you have to book all of your revenue and you have to book all of your expenses. You can't just mysteriously have non- booked revenue. So, he's booking the revenue. There is no expense out of that account, right? And so, if you did expend that account, right, you've got an accumulated surplus of $280,000 sitting in that account. You're not dependent on the revenue of $43,000 for it. Now, what you are going to impact if you didn't use some of that money is you're going to impact the balance of our free cash reserves, right? And so it would have an impact town. My point is is that I mean I think we could almost just extinguish article 3 completely and if there was an emergency in town we could call a financial special financial town meeting and authorize the expense of it for that particular purpose at that particular time because almost all of this likely be expenditures so could be so much ex I mean $50,000 maybe it doesn't matter that you do that right but if it's a real event that has a real expense expense to it. You probably have to get some kind of appropriation done for that. I'm not sure if you can just pay it out of an emergency account or not, but but that's kind of my fault is either we just get rid of it or we change it to eliminate 512 out of it and allow it to be an emergency that is declared by the town council with a couple public hearings and a vote and not require a special financial town meeting. So, they have some flexibility. But,

okay, so let let's be clear. So if you reject number three, the the cell tower fund is just going to keep growing and it's not going to be appropriated in any way unless you make an amendment that says you can tap it under the extraordinary circumstances. Right. Right.

Right. It still doesn't mean it's going to be expended that year. It's it's going to keep growing. But yes, Mr. Kennedy has his hand up. May I just may I just I'm still I just want to add my I just want to make my point about my own confusion about the which you were attempted to explain to me and I didn't digest it about the um the existence of a separate cell tower fund separate from the reserve fund. I don't I still don't get there is a there is a general ledger in the account that where money when it comes in from the cell tower gets deposited into that restricted account. It's a restrict it cannot be used. Why? That's my question. Why can't it be used?

Because the way the account is set up it's it goes into a there is no mechanism to access that except for that warrant article that you were talking about right there in your hand number three. That's the only mechanism for it to be touched. Then it has to be put back in. It's the reserve fund. No, it's not. Oh, I don't I don't It's dangerous, Larry. You don't want to. We've spent months months, but the question is why? And actually, I would like to ask you because you have a lot lot of knowledge about this. What is the advant like I said already, is there any advantage to having these separate? And I think the answer is 512 has too many stipulations.

512 is a a zeroed out account that allows it's a bucket for you to put money in and then to use. And the way article three does it tells you where that money is going to come from and then use under those restrictions. The but that's the point of 512, right? But it has many stipulations. Not a bad thing. But the question is is we have this $280,000 cell phone account and do we require the t if if there was an emergency, do you require people to pay it all back in the next fiscal year? You definitely want to let that accumulate back over time. You don't want to just strip it out and and deficit spend on it. But I I Yes, Mr. Kennedy.

Section 512 of the charter has three restrictions on it. One is and borrowings. Well, first of all, there's a trans there's a self in 2020 and 2021. There were in fact two accounts, one called the cell tower fund and one called the reserve fund. And you could see the funds moving back and forth. In 19 in 2022, a an account which I believe to be the successor of both accounts was created and was is titled and remains titled today the cell tower reserve fund. So that is the title of the single account.

Okay.

It is accurate to say that the receipts of the cell tower lease revenues are received into that account and there are a couple thousand of miscellaneous expenses that are charged against it. But the bulk of it has now accumulated to something about $280,000. Um, historically there was a provision that said that the reserve account could draw up to a h 100,000 from the cell tower account subject to three conditions or a use of pro proceeds restrictions. One was borrowings in anticipation of taxes. One was to fund budget shortfalls occasioned by emergency conditions. and the third was for construction and the fourth was condition was for no other purpose. There was a further limitation that any amount drawn and paid into the reserve account was to be repaid the following year back into the cell tower fund. My I think that is needlessly complex and it burdens I believe the taxpayer to the extent that money is drawn from whatever we call this thing called the cell to power fund. Question are the conditions of 512 attached to the this new account? I would argue not which then suggests that 512 should be eliminated on its face just completely eliminated. I think then that raises the two questions.

What is the relationship between the cell tower reserve fund and what are the permitted uses of that fund? and the contingency line item in the budget. And I think that there from an economic point of view, not from an accounting point of view, but from an economic point of view, the con the what used to be called the town council contingency, and I think it's 180,000 in this year's budget is what is the priority in terms of which fund do you draw from for what purpose? because drawing from the con the I will refer to generically as the town council contingency and it's not a fund it's an expense line idol that impacts the taxpayers a draw down cell tower fund does not particularly if it is not restricted as to use or a required reimbursement. So I would challenge the committee to when making your amendment and I recommend that I I agree that there should number one there should be a complete elimination of 512 because I think it's not relevant anymore. There is a question as to what are the legitimate proceeds restrictions to the now accumulated 280,000

cell tower reserve fund and what is the priority distribution as between the contingency expense and the cell tower fund because you could come to radically different impacts with taxpayer depending upon how you which pocket you draw that from. If there is a storm, do you draw it from the contingency fund? Could you there's no restriction as to or do you draw it from the cell to power fund and those whatever that draw is will impact the taxpayer differently.

Yeah. And I I think that's the I mean to me some of these questions I think are if if there's that level of expense where you need that decision it the impact happens from dollar one.

Yeah. No I I I I recognize that. So, but you could I mean I'm I'm thinking about this from a larger expense purpose to say but what if we offer an amendment to section three to basically take the 512 language out of it to authorize the town council under emergencies to draw from the cell tower fund to cover unanticipated emergencies. And how does that distinguish from a draw on the on the contingency? Contingency fund is funds that are ex budgeted every year for unknown expenses they may including a snowstorm.

Yep. Unknown expenses. It's budgeted every year. Plus, I think this there's been a long track record of the t the council using its contingency fund whereas with the cell I'm not sure. I'm not sure that was a knowing decision. Yeah. I'm sorry. Knowing decision a conscious in the sense of I don't I just don't know for because the money's been accumulating over what appears to be long periods of time. I believe the budget not arguing that that shouldn't have happened. Well, they're speaking of a line item. The town council's contingency the town of its usage as opposed to the cell tower fund where it's Yeah. town the town the town council contingency fund if you were to pull his budget to actuals up on that

right

that that money is routinely used now you could argue that they should budget better and more transparently and but there are going to be expenses in a 16 or $18 million budget or whatever that they're not going to be aware of that they need and this that $180,000 is for that to me those are reg to me I look at that fund Mr. Kennedy, as a regular, we're going to end up with things we didn't budget that's not in any of these budget items that we need to cover every year. We're going to have things we didn't recognize we needed. That's what that is for. It's a budgeted reserve. It's a budgeted kind of money every year. Extra like we don't know what's going to happen, but we know we're going to have some percentage that needs to be moved around. This cell tower fund to me is that that liquid rainy day fund of gosh that's not good. Where are we going to get the money to pay for that?

Cuz now if you had the money in the the town council, you would go there first because it's already budgeted. You would go to the south hour last to me because that is your that is your rainy day fund and then because it's Yeah, it it is if you don't take out the st I what? Okay. Sorry. What is the problem with the stipulation? The 512 stipulation. You have to stick it back. You have that. No, no, not that part. The borrowing taxes, budget shortfall or construction? Construction. So, you don't like the the

I don't personally I don't think there should be other than some I'm not even sure there should be any restriction on the cell power fund. I think you know the the econ economic analysis is the same but there is the restriction though is because of the warrant item and how the council in the past has used the cell phone tower. We were sitting here tonight and they said we want to take $50,000 from the cell fund cell tower fund and put it in the general fund for an expense. Could they could they do that? Because I mean the cell tower was established.

Yeah. But you have the right to go in there and take that money if at the financial time meeting they approve it. Yeah. Right. Because at some point vis no that's only if it goes to the reserve fund. So what I'm saying is that when that 280 becomes a million at some point on the council they're going to say you know 300,000 of I want to spend on this and go to a financial town meeting and use that money. question. If you reject this, aren't you taking away the ability to go to this cell? No. No, you just directly. No, you're ending it. I think it stops the council from taking money from the cell fund that they know they have to pay back. What

I'm saying if they tell us well tell us if you told the towns people I want to use some of that money and this is what I want to use it for and they say yes I think you should that would be that would be a special financial town meeting that you would have after an emergency you would you would appropriate money out of the the cell tower account for that purpose you would just have I don't think it has to be an emergency no I know but I'm just saying like let's say you had let's say there was some kind of need in town that the town said we need $120,000 or $50,000 or whatever it and it's not appropriated, they could ask for a special financial town meeting, appropriate the money out of the cell tower fund for that purpose. But that's what I think this whole thing's about. I know if something did happen, they now can go get 100,000 knowing they have to pay it back.

But they have to pay it back. And I'm saying next year they could say, I want to use 80,000 and we don't want to pay that back. I I get Oh, that's I like that. I ask you a question. You said specifically that the um contingency expense has a different impact on taxpayers. Yeah. Because it's expensed every year. It's expensed every year. And the other one if you spend it is not the same impact. Doesn't have the because there's no obligation to repay. Okay. Okay.

So it's it's a dispersement outside of the tax base. The the impact is that the next year there won't be anything to rely on should there be an emergency. Right? Other beyond that's how much you take. That's how much you take.

Point I'm trying to the economic point is that there's something like $460,000 of what I could broadly describe as contingency funds. There's the expense and there's the cell tower funds. So there's $460,000 uh dollars subject perhaps to some limitations on what they're used for. But I think we are I personally would agree that there should not be an obligation to reimburse. I do not believe that there should be any restrict any proceeds restrict use of proceeds restriction on either accounts.

But you do think there should be two separate accounts, one that's line item every year. I could I could make arguments on both sides. I don't really understand why we have right now essentially three of as an economic matter. You've got 460,000 bucks floating around here someplace. How that gets spent is up to you and the town council. Correct. And as far as I'm concerned, that's a that's jump ball. That's what you get paid for. We get paid a lot. No, but that that's your job. Well, they make big. No, that's your job.

It is our job. You're right. It is the job. And I think that's the that's why we're spending I think that's the reason to try to to stop for a moment, think about article three and think about this process now that we've kind of figured out kind of where this money, what these accounts are, what their purposes are, their history and things. Thank you so much. And what makes sense in 2026? What should we how should we have

I think Scott actually brought up something I think mentioned something really valuable and and maybe it's a little art but if if you just leave three the way it is and the council needed to go use $100,000 this year next year you could appropriate $100,000 out of the cell phone tower account to fill it back to to Right. I I think you could use the appropriation to put it but I don't know I don't know how that how fluid that is and but if you could I think I think you could do that is that not but it would take too it would be this year and next year meeting that would do that but to me that's fraught with voter confusion. I would more confusion

I think people we're already circled around like 10 hours worth of discussions on this particular thing. I I would prefer if we just made an amendment to allow the town council to use the cell tower res fund, the accumulated surplus of the cell tower fund of some amount for emergency.

Yes. On the floor, we will do that. Yeah, we will not do it right now, but we will we will on the it will stay this way as it is in our budget book and we will decide whether we endorse it or reject it tonight. But I would suggest that we offer an amendment to it to come up with language that fits the fact that there is a surplus in there that we don't want to deplete it, but we also don't want to hamstring people into the next fiscal year to have to pay it back. To me, I think we just make a clean amendment to it. We propose that amendment at the meeting and we see if we can get enough people to vote for it. Can the corollary of that be which is not going to be voted on at the town meeting that the the charter just gets rid of this? That's later.

No, no, no. You should want to know, but I mean at at this point in the game, right, we have talked around the topic ad nauseium and I think it's time to move forward with a vote. Yeah, that's fine. Thank you, Jennifer. The horse is dead. It got dead. So, so uh do you have a motion, Jennifer? Yeah, I I I move that we reject article three and I'm full fine with rejecting article 3. Uh and no amendment. Okay. I have a second rejecting it, but I would like No, but we have a second for rejecting article three and do we have a discussion? We don't have to come up with an amendment tonight. That's not required.

Okay, Scott. Yeah, I'm going to vote to keep it for one reason that I think the mechanism in place is for the town council when they make their budgets every year, they want to spend some money on the cell tower that they send it over in their budget saying they want to take 50,000 from the cell fund and they want to spend it and not pay it back. But that's not what three is. But three, so I can live with three saying if the council wants to use 100,000 they can. They just got to pay it back. And if they don't want to pay it back, next time goes in the budget, taking money out and not paying it back.

At the final town meeting, the voters can say yes. I'm going to have to deal with this at town meeting. This is going to be crazy at town meeting. what you're talking about. Now, if if if you uh make a recommendation to reject this, which is fine, and you're asking the voters to reject the article, done. There's no amendment to that you can make then. Okay.

Okay. Number one, you're done. No amendment. uh and to make to cook up a new reserve fund on the spot that then inv that then asks to take money out of a fund that voters have been putting in on the basis of 512 to then somehow uh take funds out of that that don't have to be paid back is contrary to 512 for for emergency expenditures. So legally, that's why I'm saying you you that scenario, you're going to have to get the town solicitor to greenlight that one because that's going that's going to be pretty problematic at

the question, Larry, also is does 512 still apply to this current fund even though it's been the name has changed and it's been consolidated. Does that But you're going to change the name and and that that's going to be the basis for for not for not uh for using money that was put under there under the basis of the of the of the article. I don't know. That's why you better ask a lawyer. I I would say when you read the the we're told the reserve the reserve fund. I'm asking may I ask in this question? Go ahead.

I think there's a balance in this section 512. No 512 deals with transactions between a sellar fund and a reserve fund. I do not I don't know but I believe that the reserve fund has maybe some modest balance if any. The cell tower fund has a balance of something north of 280. Well again I I I I'm lost again on that on this. I just think it's it's a placeholder account.

It is the reserve fund is a placeholder. The cell tower fund has has accumulate accumulates revenue. And I think the question before us is do we continue with language that I find to be I understand the mechanism behind it and I understand Scott's comment but I still think it's year-to-year confusing about how that happens. And so what do we do? We just punt do we I mean that's the question. If if we if we don't amendment and we just get rid of it, then we're just taking the ability of the town council to use funds and put it back, which may be hamstringing them if they needed it. No, you said it out loud yourself. If they need to use it, they can ask for special financial town meeting. You're right.

Let's be done with it. Okay. I I go again with my uh proposal. Whatever. I so move. I second. We've already got a second. We're in discussions. I have to say again, PS, I do think it's okay to say at the town meeting, we're working on clarifying this through the charter committee. Sure. And and that's totally fair, but put that in our letter, which we have to talk about next. We are concentrating on this meeting and Cy has to get up on. This is how you get it across to the town. Okay. So, Scott, so you got your You only need three votes. I know. I just I like this. I I just don't want to reject this and then hand tie the council if they need the money.

I don't know if this is something that needs to that that the the solution to this is is a charter change or if the solution to this is get the solicitor involved. I just want to remind everybody too that we reject this. The voters at the town meeting have to say whether this is approved or not. We don't get to just reject it and not show up. It's going to be there. They can the voters can basically say budget committee is crazy. We're going to approve it. The the voters can say well I don't care what you said. We want to amend it. Right? There could be lots of things that but if we vote to kill it, it's done. So, I think there's plenty of time to have discussions on it and and to figure out what to do with it. This this isn't this isn't the last time we're going to talk about article three or it's not but is that you could have a special

like Mr. Kenny could get up and make himself a motion if you wanted to. Can article three be reddrafted at the meeting on the floor? That may be the way that many people just taking the word as it exists today and changing it to whatever you want.

That that's my argument for voting voting tonight to put a no to reject on it is to let people know that we're thinking about doing something different with it. So instead of just approving it and then and then surprising people and saying, "Well, we approved it, but then we're going to we want to we want to offer an amendment to it." I'd rather people know that we didn't approve it and then offer an amendment to it. I think it's a better way to get people to pay attention to it. Maybe not understanding the parliamentary procedure. The I'm suggesting that as a result of tonight's discussion, the committee delete in its entirety article 3 and substitute a new article three.

That is a motion from the floor. That does not happen tonight. our our only thing we can do tonight is look at what's written now and accept to say that we endorse or don't endorse it basically is the I think the best way to look at we cannot touch that tonight we can't touch the language tonight it's a warrant article it's already been it's it's we're not going to ch we don't go in and change yeah we we don't want to mess the clerk the clerk has you published this already oh it's on the preliminary. It's we just it's we just don't need to go in and go by the so you have to

it's not our job to go in and like start rewriting what they've done. It's only our job to appine on our opinion of what those yes or no basically. So my my argument would be would be we reject it and then we come up with a fix before the meeting and we work with Mr. Anderson and maybe some other people to do that. We have a motion on the floor with a motion on the floor. I got it seconded over here. Says is to reject the article. The motion is to reject the article with no amendments. That's what Jennifer v uh motioned and Allison seconded. Oh, I thought quote Cy. No, she beat him to it. No amendments. Wait a minute. There's two motions on the floor actually. No, Scott tried to say a motion, but that was part of the discussion.

I think that there's Yeah, mine was a discussion. She block amendments completely. No, no, no, no. I don't I'm trying to explain to you, okay, what it's already been said. We can't add an amendment here tonight. We have to reject it in totem. But are we voting that you said no amendments? You can change your Yes, because there can be no amendments tonight. So then we just reject it. I would add in no amendments. Rejected. That's what I said. So can you modify to modify your stated reject with no amendments. Do you not want no amendments in I do not want any amendments. I Oh, we're not we're not gonna No. In this I want to block number three and that's it. Okay.

Okay. I will remove the words where you said reject number three with no amendments. That's right. Just to reject number three. Reject number. Yep. That's fine. I was afraid we were voting in some way to block. All All those in favor? I. We have four and Scott against. Say I the opposing. I think it's supposed to be nay. It doesn't matter, you know. time.

Oh, Victoria, come on now. You can There are things in here that are Bye. Okay. We can't cover everything that's in the budget book in our letter. Can't do that. Had other things you told me that should be I know. And so I've got a letter here Corey has to get to the printer tomorrow morning. We'd have to get the letter done. Okay. Okay. The only thing I would suggest that I circled when Jonathan was talking was to provide more accurate and transparent picture of departmental cost that specifically was re was referring to information technology that it read it question marks.

Yep. And so I think we should pro like we should say such as within information technology at the uh so that's paragraph paragraph seven. It says this provides a more accurate and transparent picture of departmental cost. And then I think we need to add a clause that just says such as the reorganization of information technology expenses, right? Something that

give people a little bit of time here. Thank you. For example, the IT department. Yeah, we'll just put a I think information not just the department cost of information technology the cost, right? Because it's not the department. It's just the cost of information technology. Okay. So, that takes away the third thing and homestead you put in here. I put homestead in there. Okay. And I tried to prep that is in there. I tried to warn homestead this is like an informational more than three years back and five years forward. Yeah, we didn't get there.

That's not Take that out. That was aspirational. Okay. Yeah, that that salary survey is that aspirational? No, that actually has been budgeted for um so where does that and so let's see here. Um additional staffing. So let's see. Uh, no, that's not it. Uh, we're near down where you page. Where are you exactly? Page two. What? I'm on the back. You want to add something about um salary survey. So, I'm going through the list of all the things we said last week that we would add. The only thing left we gave up on the forecast forward and back. Okay.

Only thing now we have to add a salary survey and we're talking about where would we want to add that? We we also expect the town to complete accounting work, restore timely financial reporting and have its books in orders as soon as possible as soon as feasible as well and well before the end of end of the year. Right. Maybe we can say there in addition the town is going to conduct a salary survey to to review its staffing cost or or it's I mean it's not a cost. In addition, the town is going to conduct a salary. People won't know what that is. It's if we we are chronically underpaid the people who work in this town and we need to see it.

I think we do because it's budgeted in there. conduct a salary survey. Yeah, I think short and sweet. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Yeah, people want to ask about it, they can. But how do we talk? Well, this is where you start talking to your friends and your neighbors now. Yeah, I just so that they're educated. They did one up there and they realized how underpaid everybody was and they tried to evict it. Right. I I can figure out the service but okay you want to add no we so I have no further I think it's yeah I think it's sky with it

this is how you get a letter through you do it at 9 pretty much went through this with we we did we did Allison Allison's like the red that came out of it from the track changes on hers was pretty substantial notice you added some things I did I did But that's okay. All right. So, um, we have to, uh, vote on this letter. Let me just get my agenda up so I can. So, the the we're on item nine, vote and discuss to approve the budget committee report and the letter to the voters. So, we basically approve the report already, but the warrant items. We're going to approve the rest of the report and the letters to the voters. Do you want to dispatch those in one or two motions? Motion. One motion. Can I get a motion? So, move.

What? again to accept the budget booklet and the letter as written as and amen that we've made here. Yeah. Should I give you that? Well, you've got the that time I did. Well, I did say that Alison going to give Allison the motion and then who's and Scott's got the second. All those in favor? Excuse me. I have a motion. Allison seconded. Yes. Did you What was Scott seconding? He was trying to second. getting trying to help out. Okay. All right. Sorry. We have We usually have many seconds to our motions as fast as you can. Okay. All right. That's fine. That's fine. Those in favor? Yes. I Any opposed?

Okay. Article 10, public input, please. No. Public I mean public leave the public for the next meeting financial. Is that correct? Yes. All right. Our next meeting. That's our next meeting. And then I'm done. Yeah. But is do you feel the need to continue to meet? I personally like my life back. Um but it is uh if

if we are are we expecting with no since we could not propose an amendment to amendment or to number three warrant three here. don't have a roll in meeting and are we expecting to like we'll do this Jennifer how about this plant an amendment in the well that's that's what I'm trying to say that we cannot we one of one or two of you can do whatever you want three of us cannot do anything without a meeting so yes one or two of you one or two of you can do what you wish right the three of three no we will not we will not

committee in court before right we will not do that don't worry No, no, no. Somebody in the town though can No, we listen to it. But yeah, no, we will if we were going to the question is is do we have a meeting to discuss possibly putting an amendment forward to number three? Exactly. I think that may be worth a meeting, but I think we can we can just sit on this for a few moments and we can email each other about having a meeting on that topic. That is possible to discuss that and if we decide we wish to have a meeting on it, we can schedule a meeting. We just need to give notice. We don't need another next meeting is a financial town meeting. I have one last question. So because I've never done a financial town meeting from

Oh, sure. Is there like do we gather at 6:30? Is there Yeah, I would just I would What I have done is try to get there at time you going to plan on open the doors opening at 5 this year instead of six to try to allow the flow to flow better. And um I know that you I know that you and Larry have done Larry said he has been meeting a lot to try to figure out this to be better and I appreciate that. So I feel like it's a seven o' I think it's a 7 o'clock start. It is I get there about an hour. I've gotten there an hour early or so before. Um heads up Jennifer this is dress. Yeah. And so

I got told at the last minute I had to put on a dress. for 10 minutes before the meeting. Maybe it's like, "Oh, by the way, I in a suit which will where is it written in the charter?" It's just it's tradition. It's just tradition. And you are welcome to carry with any tradition. I I am a t-shirt and hat person. I teach in that all the time. But I I wear I wear a suit to that because when I first came to town, everybody was well dressed and I'm like, do I want to be the only one that is not in this? I think I'll get I think I'll dress up. be thankful that you told me. So anyway, that's that's it. That's your point of information. Uh item 12. Motion to return.

Yes. Still moved. All those in favor? I I