Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

Noting the time and the presence of a quorum, I bring the box of finance committee meeting to order. Um it is November 18th and it's 700 p.m. Um and we are partly remote, so we'll do a roll call um roll call attendance. Um John, are you on yet? John Grieven, can you state your name and say say president? Uh, yep. There we go. Uh, yeah. John Grein present. Michelle Ryan present. Stalin present. Nean present. Connor present.

And Newton present. Um, and also with us we have Rajan Hudson, deputy town administrator. Um, Hongwa Lee, finance director. We have Gary Kushner, um, a clerk. Um, and, um, Susan Back from the box news. So, first minutes of November the 4th are sent out. Are there any questions, objections, comments? Is there a motion to approve? Move to approve. Second. Second. Second. Uh, all Yeah. Roll call. Uh, vote to approve. So, John I. Michelle. I

I I Yeah. And you and I. Okay. Um, citizens concerns. I've got nothing. Um, oh, wait. Liz has her hand up. Oh, Liz. Okay, hold on. I'm going to unmute you, Liz. Okay, you should be unmuted.

Great. Thank you. Um, sorry I couldn't be there tonight. We're prepping for a big thing tomorrow. I've got to do a ton of cooking. Um, just wanted to give you guys an overview of the school committee meeting that we had on November the 6th. So, we heard about data informed practices. We had an assessment recap. Um we do still continue to have with the schools a um challenge in early literacy for many of our students. We looked at the equity and intervention piece. We discussed a little bit of the feedback of AB forward and also AB forward is having a steering committee meeting tonight. So at our next meeting you can expect to see the findings um and sort of the next steps with that you know and then we also did provide um budget guidance to our uh administration department for putting together a budget with our along with our um budget subcommittee.

So just wanted to give you guys the update on that.

So So Liz, will that budget guidance including the sort of A and B budgets that we talked about here at FinCom for Boxer? So, it will be we're going to be looking at, you know, the different uh budgets that we can within our operating increase. We typically try to keep our operating increase at a 3% increase to the total budget. Um and so knowing you know that the towns may have some difficulties as well and also knowing the increasing costs especially with uh health insurance and being in the midst of a negotiation year. You know we are sort of being conservative and looking at sort of the two different options. However, we've just provided the guidelines and uh we don't have any concrete numbers at this point. the budget subcommittee needs to meet again and you know really refine things with um the committee and the administration. I don't expect us to have more concrete numbers until the beginning of December. I suppose the question is what does the school committee do in the event that we need an override in Boxboro and we and the override fails you know so for the town we're doing this A and B budget

you know set up and uh we've given guidance to the town um of uh 5.5% for the you know the normal budget process the A budget and then uh 2% or less than 2% for the if it fails the override. That's our first estimate of what we think we need to be within to keep within the the levy limit. So the question will be if an override fails, what would be the school committee's sort of budgetary response to that? So without having a crystal ball, I mean the so if an override fails and the assessment that is provided at that time is not able to be met, the school committee would reconvene. Now obviously like you know like I in particular you know I have been an advocate for open collaboration with the town of Boxro and with the town of Actton.

So I have extremely high hopes that we will not get to that point. I intend to work very hard to make sure that we are funding both our town and our schools, you know, and I look to continued collaboration with the finance committee on that to be honest. Um, in that case, you know, we do understand at the same time, we can't necessarily put our nose to slide our face. there are legal requirements that we have to meet for and if that if those legal requirements wind up becoming too much, that's where we would have further discussions into how we could make that work. But knock on wood, we will get this done together and we will fund both our town and our school committee or school budget.

Okay. Comments, questions? No. Great. Thanks, Liz.

What? Um so next up we have reserve fund transfer requests from the town. Um and the reason for this is that because we have bans that are outstanding. Um and some of those bands are now over two years old. We have to pay principal back on the bands. Um and the principal amount is $37,000. Um, this in a way is not a surprise because it should have been known about actually I'm sure you know somebody knew about it but we didn't uh flag it up in our budgeting process. Um, so the question is you know will we approve a reserve fund transfer to cover that unbudgeted amount of of uh of funding? So what's the consequence of not approving it?

Well, we so what we could do here one option is we could still pay it because we have money in the budget for interest you debt servicing which is for the bonds. So we could pay that money um out of that account. The rest of the next payment from the on the bonds is not due until May. Is that the 37 you're talking about or is that No, no, no. The No, 37 is due in December the 1st, right? But the the the the interest on the bonds which is 81,000 is not due until May. So what we could do we could say pay the pay the bands out of the interest line in the budget which I believe is legal to do that is still interest right.

Yeah it is. Um and we can then when May comes around and we will owe that 81,000 in May we'll be 37,000 short in that account. But at that point we can do we can do a budget transfer I think. Yes. Um so and that way we keep the money in the reserve fund because yeah it's a fairly big hit on the reserve funds I think. So you know personally I think we should I I would rather keep a little bit of money in the cushion now rather than get us into a situation where we have no reserve funds maybe midway through the year for some for whatever reason. Uh so that's my suggestion but I'll take you know comments and questions on that on that. So just to follow up to that I mean is this a proper use of the reserve fund?

Well technically it's not emergency. It's not an unforeseen it shouldn't have been it was it was a oversight by whoever in budgeting but it's not unforeseen and it's not a surprise. So technically, no. Although we do need to pay our bills, but I like I actually like your thinking of let's get to the point because you know, think about how far over our budget was last year, right? So rather than using we spent last year.

We under spent last year, I'm sorry, how under you know, so we underspent. So we can move that money in in May or if we don't have money somehow, you know, we don't have money, we could hit the reserve fund because we have to pay our bills. Um, but you know, maybe we have half of it that we could move and then just have to pay 15. I But I agree with you. It's a big hit right now. It's early in the year to hit the reserve fund. I think that's a good strategy. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

Okay. So, we'll we'll defer on that reserve fund transfer then long run. Um and uh you know make a note for for May that uh we can do a transfer to cover that uh um shortfall now in in the in the bond interest fee. Do we have to take action in any way or or consult on the the transfer that they'll do to cover it out of the interest or is that just something they can do? That would just be that would just then be a budget transfer in in May. And I don't think we have to even but for this Oh, no. That's fine because it's it just says um it just says long-term debt

and we know it's interest because that's how we budget it. But the only thing that you can't do is you can't use salaries for other. Okay. So that but this is just debt so it's fine. Yeah. Gary, so I have a question sort of policy related. In the past we used to not cover uh funds like reserve fund if there is funds in still in that account. As you indicated, there are funds in the account. Yeah, I thought last year we had this discussion. I brought it up and I thought we had created a policy around this but I could be mistaken. We didn't create a policy. We talked about it. But but that's effectively what we're doing anyway, right?

Well, you're doing what I'm talking about. I'm reminding that that has been the the past history for doing you know when things like this come up. Yeah. If there are monies in the other or or um payment um personnel you know that use those funds first then backfill later in time either through reserve or inter departmental. So the way you're going way you're talking is I think the right thing to do I really think we should come up with either guideline or policy around this in the future. It's more of a practice than a policy I would say at this at this stage. I mean and it has been documented. So yeah, you know, that's one thing I keep thinking you should document it

so the staff so the town hall knows about it as committees know it needs to be documented. I don't against it but I think we can certainly document a procedure. I don't think we make it a policy because if you make it a policy then if we need to kind of go around that policy for whatever reason then we need to take a vote and it just becomes and our policies are usually then voted by the select board and just a thing. It's a lot of hoopla going through I mean I think documenting it isn't a bad idea as a procedure and maybe we can do that next spring next fall when we have you know before we get in a budget but I don't flowchart of like possible paths when there's a reserve fund transfer you know you can do x y and z we used to have it attached to the reserve fund

um document it used to be on the top used to be sort of the procedure on how to get it approved used to take a lot more steps to get it approved you had to go to select board for signatures and then it you know the fin disappeared for just like and And then that got changed a few select a few fincoms ago a few years ago. It just they changed it. And again I think that's why we want to be careful about turning something into a policy. Yeah. Because you know so um particularly since we generally do that anyway but so we could modify the wording on this form if we wanted to. Yeah. I mean that's what that's if it was like it was a while ago. It was probably like when I was maybe even still on the school committee. Yeah. They just the FINCOM decided they didn't like the form. They cleaned it up and they modified the language on it. Yeah.

So, so there is additional carrying cost for this principle for the ban. Yeah. When you think of carrying cost, you mean what do you mean? You mean Well, we're going to pay it back. It's just a question of how correct the total ban. Yeah. It'll be rolled into a bond when we get enough money. Okay. Together. These bands get we take bands out and then we roll them into bonds when there's enough money. Yes. So, and we're not paying interest. This is actually not interest. This is actually principle we're paying back. Okay. Um not interest. So, interest is paid separately at some other point in the year. That's all budgeted for. Okay. But so, the timing of principal payback is not affected by this. No, it's not.

Well, well, the band the bands are one they're one-year bans. So, this so in November like now, they'll be rolling another band together with new things that came up in in town meeting last year. So there'll be a bigger band coming coming through. Um but the older parts of the band, if they're more than two years old, you have to pay principal at some point. You can't go in indefinitely with those. I understand that. Yes. If you don't pay principal back, you're always accumulating interest. They don't let you not do that. I'm not sure.

You're pay you're paying now you pay interest on on an ongoing basis. So the ban within two years the ban amount stays the same. You pay interest just to cover the interest and but the principal stays the same until it hits two years and then you have to start paying principal as well as interest. Okay. Okay. And the reason these have gone on so long is that we haven't really accumulated enough band to make it worthwhile rolling into a bond because there's fees associated with that and it's not really worth doing unless it's like $4 or5 million. It's not really worth doing that. Okay. So, we'll get to that point, you know, soon, I think, with the with the fire station stuff. Um,

and we do need to keep in mind there is usually fees when we have to do that. We we do need to come up with fees for bonding. Yeah. So, what will happen is once they've decided there's enough um bands to roll together into a bond that usually then becomes an article, Warren article for Gary 20 $30,000 for the for the fees for for the bonding. So, that's the right range. Yeah. So we'll know when these bans then become bonds because we have to we'll have to deal with those articles. Yeah.

Um on on the same topic um I've got an updated list now of what all the bands that we have um voted and outstanding. Okay has given me. So the list I showed last time of the voted bands and what's been paid is missing actually one um road maintenance line was it? has uh wasn't in there. So, I I'll update that um that list in the in the dashboard. Okay. Do we need to vote on this or or we we don't need to vote on this, right? I don't think so.

I think so. No. Um so, FY26 budget updates. I don't think there's anything I've got on that topic. Um I saw that uh Kylie sent out updates today. I did a whole bunch of them. Yeah, they're just Yeah, they're just it's hard to Yeah. to go through it all. Could we ever get a summary of that? We're talking about the one through 170 pages of documents. Well, we get a summary with the dashboard, I suppose, at the end of the quarter. I mean, but does anybody Somebody's doing making time to send these out. Yeah, Carly is. She's the assistant accountant. Do you look at

I do. It's just that when I get it's easier to look at them on a monthly basis, even you know, even if I don't get them monthly or quarterly, when you get six months together and you have detail and then you have a summary, I just haven't had time to sit and do that. Um I have generally what I do is I just skip to the most current one because quite frankly it is it it's cumulative, right? So you get to the most current one, you can see what we spent and what we have left in any category, right? Um so I don't need to know what we spent in August because now it's November. So if I can even if you go if you go to the bottom of it there's no I'm looking for a summation of some sort and it's not

it's not it's it works for them because that's part of the vadar system right so that works for them it's not all that useful for us to look at or to get into a form like an Excel spreadsheet where we could manipulate the information or to I don't even think we could turn that into an Excel this is where we came in right this is what this is where it all started when we that's all we had when you know going back three is and that's when I started doing the de dashboards to try to summarize down in in in in terms a point we can actually understand and see trends um in it. So,

and the thing is at the bottom it doesn't really help with the summary because you have the budget but then you have all these warrant articles and then all these accounts. So, that's where it gets a little confusing. It's almost like we should do a tutorial to make sure everyone understands what they're reading. Um because there but there is a ton of information in that report. It just isn't easy to manipulate. Yeah. So, okay. That's also not um it's not your fault. It is the system what we have. Yeah. Which works for you guys for campaign, right? So, that's the important thing. Yeah. Yeah. So, um FY27 budget first one is a budget model which John has been working very hard on. Do we have to want to give us an update? Sure. Sure. Yeah. Actually, can I share screen this?

Yeah, you share. Are you not um you as a co-host? Yeah. Where' it go? All right. Where do I want to go? I want to go here. Make it smaller. Can you guys still see that? Yeah, because it works mostly. I'll give I'll give it

anize that. Okay. So, um yeah, I've been uh running with this. Uh Tony and I met once on this. Um getting closer. Uh but there's a few key things I want to talk to you. So, the first one, um so nothing's changed really. You know, here's your assumptions. Here's kind of where we are on the 26 estimate and then the whole model extrapolates from 26 onward. So um the key the key area obviously is column C. You know what we're using as a current baseline. One would think that'd be pretty cut and dry in terms of let's just plug in the budget numbers, but um it's not perfectly because the budget is um especially for estimates. It's a little bit different than I think what we're going to base it off of quite frankly.

These estimates are from so it's a combination of estimate which I'll go through. Yeah. And the actual budget itself.

So two things let's just keep to the simple stuff. the other column or excuse me the other row. So this one is not in So we asked Hungwa who's been very helpful um sending the data. So that's not in Hungwa's export that she sent us. She gave us a nice clean export of all of these values up here um or some of them and we had to extrapolate the other ones. But this one's not here. So all I'm trying to do is it's it's not a big number. I'm just want to make sure that it's not double counted anywhere else. and if we should be using it. So it's CPC. That's my understanding.

So the TNC is a small number that is less than that's generally 600 bucks. That's it. Sorry, what's TNC? It's I don't know exactly what it is, but it it has to do with car services. Uber. Uber and and and pay the pay the state some money for as like a tax somebody comes somebody comes to the town it's like a few thousand. Yeah. So literally it's 600 bucks. Like I don't think it's ever been over $1,000. And CPC is like and CPC is CPC. Okay. So CPC is not technically a revenue unless I know it's these are well it's in there because we in in the budget model that I gave John originally and our our town budget we have CPC outgoings and CBC incoming.

That's what I was going to say. It needs to be it needs to be offset on the other side and it's completely balanced. Yeah. But it's managed Yeah. separately. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. So this is just like reflecting it and that should just be a it should just match exactly. Exactly. Should be So ultimately actually Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. It I mean do you mean revenues and expenses should match? The CPC revenues and expenses should match. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So it should be somewhere in expenditures a CPC line that will match that number. But that that's see that's where we don't see that. We don't have that. So that line should come out. I think under ATM articles estimate that does not include any CPC. No. So that's a whole another issue. You're going from one red line.

Well, I'm just Okay. Okay. I understand. And I almost didn't want to say anything because I'm like that's another red line. But that said, usually Well, so those would be CPC articles are part of the because we bring our own articles. Yes. But they're all under ATM articles, right? It's the whole warrant package. Yes. within that but the offset to that when we look at funding that is the CPC monies that's all managed separately but that's the offset to it so you should have I'm sorry no go ahead it should be a one to one yeah so if I All right so if we didn't include it in the ATM it shouldn't be on row 30 correct

it should be netted out and that should just be the TNC which is the 600 or I'm going to call it zeroed ATM articles. Okay, so with that in mind, um let's go down to the second red row, the ATM articles estimate. And this is a huge one because right now with this current model, we have plenty of levy limit excess capacity, which tells me the model is wrong in this year. In any year, any year. Very poor. Okay, but we should know what our levy capacity is. We're in FYI26, so we should know what that is. Well, yeah, it's less than that.

And certainly, it's going to be voted on Monday night. So, we certainly should know Monday night because Monday night, that's the tax classification hearing at the select board. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, fair enough. And um one of the drivers, I mean, I think I have higher confidence in all the other numbers except for C41, this number right here. Okay. So it's a driver. Uh another number we've had in there is in the $2 million range, right? So the question is how do we integrate? So what you what so what were the article? We know what the articles were for FY26 from the from the book. So yeah, so we should know that. But but that number is low. It's more than that. Yeah.

Well, so if you look at the footnote, it's just the RNA, right? Okay. Okay. Just RNA. Yeah. Because bonding stuff you're not including in there. Okay. So there's our we had this discussion bonding fine. Okay, but what about the free cash stuff? Free cash is up above. I know, but but we use free cash to pay for the articles. So all right. So that's right. So you can't you need to show it on your expenditure because again that's a one for one. Yep. You missed that. Yeah. So bonding is harder to do, right? You got to just That's a separate line. But to be honest with you, we're just saying any capital any large item that's we're going to say is it's going to be on the capital

it's going to be bonded basically. Yeah, probably. Yep. But in this case, we should know what's bonded because we should have the minutes. We can get the minutes from May and we'll know what we bonded. But we know that we used free cash. So that that's why that number is wrong. That's why that number is too low. Well, it's not low for RNA, right? That's it's probably accurate for RNA. Yeah. Yeah. Right. minus I'm going to throw you another wrench. Minus anything that's put back into the budget. Yeah, we know. Yeah, there was two or three articles. Yeah, because you guys understand that some stuff goes we went through that. Yeah, some stuff in the in the RNA warrant articles gets rolled into the modified if you like budget,

right? So the hours things like that gets rolled back into the budget. So that should be up top. So, so I'm we're going to how are we going to come up with 2026? So, for example, um well, we know we should know that because we know what was rolled into the budget and that budget number there I think includes all the rolled in stuff. Yeah. And you guys have that number you guys met and signed off and everybody understood. So, it was not rolled in which is was not much. I think maybe ATM needs its own category like header with everything that was voted and then broken out into the three places.

That is so that's the one of the problems is that the way we record the ATM is minutes which are done. Becky does a lovely job with the minutes but then we have to literally go in and pull stuff out and then you know and then literally put it in an Excel spreadsheet. Tony does this um versus you're right there needs to be for financially we need to track it separately somehow and make sure the two things match but that just takes work because there's no way to you know one's a word document and one is you know there's no way to take that money out there's no other way to do that though

in terms of the model though John we can we we we can do the estimate for 26 because we know that that number that's a know that's a knowable number Um, yes. I mean, I think let me just hold on. Can you break that down, John? Can you do ATM articles and then do RNA and make that the 339 and then do free cash? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, we're talking about that chart that is the two-dimensional chart that has sources across the top and spend categories. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. In the budget model. Um,

yeah. I want to bring that up right now, so just bear with me. For me, even if like the numbers add up in a certain way, it'd be nice to look at this and see like, all right, ATM happened. These are the three places the money went and see it as opposed to them just being hidden in each of these other lines, you know? Yeah, this is 25. Hold on one second. Let me try to share this. Uh, how do I switch screens? You need to stop share. So, when you're while you're sharing that, that's the thing. It only we only fund four four categories of funding. We have free cash, raise and appropriate bonding at CPC. That's it.

So you we should it would be a lot better to be able to look at it like that. Yeah. Just like all the money appropriate. What do you got going there, John? That's like That's actually my That's pretty fancy. Yeah. Yeah. I meant to do that.

This guy. Yep. So is this 25 or 26? So this is this is fiscal year 26. This is this year. Is this Oh, so that's in the back of the warrant. So this should be this year's numbers. Um is that right before voting? Right. As as it appears in the warrant. Yeah. So there's our free cash that Maria is telling me that I need to put as an expense. Yep. 794 526 but your RNA is only 95,000 correct so oh on my charts I did a three-year average

okay but but CPC is right because that's 885 right and oh there's the breakdown 885 and 858 for your TNC right so that would be actual numbers because that is what it is going in. Well, I suppose we're assuming you all got voted, but don't we're assuming it gets voted. Yeah, TNC gets voted, but um I guess you you need to take this because this was pre-Town meeting. This went in the back of the warrant. We just need to check it with the numbers, the minutes after and I've aggregated there all the protection stuff into one number rather than different lines. So, I think I think it all got voted,

right? And there's no um

Yes. So this is real numbers for 26, right? Yeah. Yeah. Providing it got voted this way. Yeah. This was present. I think I think all of those numbers there got involved into the budget though. I think can again all of those numbers got No, maybe not. Maybe not the town government. Not town government stuff. This is so that chart needs to be checked against the minutes. Yes. Just to confirm. Although from memory, I don't think anything got changed on town floor. Yeah. For that. I think the only thing that changed on town floor was the budgeted thing for the planning board. Yeah. Okay. But yes, it should be checked every year against the minutes. Yeah. Okay. So, uh there's a got something.

Yeah, go for it. 3737 should be only 7,000 737 37 because hold on because it was pre-Town meeting that 30 got rolled into the budget. Is that right? Is that about the number that we rolled in for personnel stuff? So that's the treasure collector. hours. Was there other But there was other stuff. There was um there was um there was hours for community services. That's on there. Yes.

Separately. Oh, that's under health services. Yeah. Um are you signed on? You're Yeah. Yeah. Whatever you want to do. Yeah. Are you signed on or? No. So this is what I keep track. So that's our general fund budget. These are the warrant articles. So if you add it all up, that's that. And then um the total operating is this. These are the two warrant article for 50,000. That's what the difference is. So that's that one. I was talking about that. Okay.

I don't know. Is that helpful? Well, I mean, how does it So, what's the end state for going forward is my question. Well, the question is what's what's RNA not rolled into the budget for for FY26. What was what was not rolled into the budget? What's what's left over as a as a separate warrant article that you track separately? Article 15, the 30,000 the assessor theoralation. Okay. And then the B program article 24 for 20,000. So what's that number? So 30,000 was for the revaluation. So that's that's in town government, right? That's that's

Yeah. Yeah. And what and what what was the other thing? 20,000,000. So that's under community service. It's under that's under community services. What is it? Okay. BAP. The BRE for BREP. But isn't that BEAP? was the emergency assistance program. Okay. Yeah. So 20,000 was not in the budget, not brought into the budget and 30,000 for the assessment was not in the budget. So there's 50,000 that was that are warrant articles that are tracked separately as ATM articles

but are raised and appropriated. But they're raised appropriated and they're tracked they're tracked separately and those and those actually stay on the books until we spend them actually. So are they but they're in these numbers. They're in that total number there. It's the 20,000 and it's part of the 37,000 right? It's 30,000 of the 37. Yeah. Yeah. The other 7,000 is the assessor increase not assessor the treasurer increased hours I think. But that should be part of the budget. Yeah. No, no, it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. That should be then that 7,000 should be rolled into the budget, right? So, yeah, I think just 50 of that whole column is not right.

Yeah. So, 50 is the number then. Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. Are you saying that out of the 95,739 that all did not go into the budget, only 50,000 did? No, we're saying 45,739 went to the budget and 50,000 didn't go in the budget. So, what was DPW? What was the part-time? Oh, okay. Right. So, that was all human human. Okay. And so, that did go in the budget. Yeah. So, help my little brain keep up here. So, um we're all trying to keep up having fun. So, I'm just trying to think I'm going I'm going to break this down into three sub columns, right? Um,

this report. Uh, yes. So, we need to include I'm guessing 45 739 for RNA for this year. We use 794 free cash. I'm going to skip bond and I'm going to add CPA and TNC together for the roughly 80. Well, CPA I think you can leave out all together because it's it's okay. It's it leave it up both our sides. Leave it up both both sides. Yeah. Because money comes in for CPA and it goes out from CPA and it's not it's it's always a it's always a wash. Okay. So what so what we need I think is probably for RNA we need two columns actually. We need one that says RNA gets rolled into the budget and RNA

tracks separately same as CPA. Yes. CPA is the community preservation commission to that level of detail makes a decision to use the community preservation whatever the A is the same thing. Okay. Yes. So for the model we need we need to do that because what we've got is a otherwise we're double counting because we've got a budget number

that includes some of this RNA stuff and then we got RNA warrant articles that we need to say well which which of those were already rolled into the budget. Okay. So the question is going so if you so what we're trying to do is we're estimate trying to estimate going forward how how how much RNA is there going to be in the town that's not personnel or or bud bud you know budget related that's sort of oneoff that's just yeah that's just a one-off purchase of something. Yeah. I mean, obviously we can't, you know, we don't know that, but we can we should probably estimate that.

Well, we we're not sure about the assessor. That's been every year for five years, but we're going to look at that, right? We're not doing that anymore. Um, and then the rest of it is just personnel stuff and Right. That's going to go into the budget. Yeah. Well, this BAP, I suppose, was like a one-off, you know. I don't really know what they're planning to do with that, but you know, if it's going to be more than one year, then they need to try to figure out how to get that in the budget, but we don't, you know, so under words, RNA nonbudgeted is going to be fairly minimal. It should be, you think? I think so. Yeah. And probably stuff which is like a oneoff purchase shortterm will be free cash,

especially with the amount of free cash we have in the next couple of years. Yep. Last year we couldn't find anything we could we could use free cash. We couldn't we couldn't use enough free cash last year, right? We were trying and we just, you know, but we also did some bonding. I think this year we're going to probably have to take a harder look at do we bond this or do we use free cash for a piece of equipment that we would normally bond. Um, and there's a lot of people that, you know, that that opinion goes 50/50. We'll have to have that discussion. So John, where where are you with what else do you need from us?

Help me uh just give me my sub components. Just so what we were talking about just then it's going to be the other stuff from the grid, right? So yeah, so we need a line for RNA not in the budget. Not already rolled into the budget. Yeah. And we need a live RNA. No. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. And then a a line for free cash usage. Free cash. No CPA. Yeah.

So for for the free cash, you're treating it like revenue when we use it and then taking it out of that revenue that was generated on the expense line or like it seems like it's an expense to me, but I guess we are but it's a revenue. It's a revenue when we it's a source of when we appropriate source of revenue. Are they going to match necessarily? They should I mean there should not be an example where they don't match because free cash is here and we physically need to take it out of that account to put it over here. And to do that we need either a budget expenditure which we don't put it in the budget or we need a warrant article. Okay. So I'll put it in here but I should just put something up top too. I mean I have to put the same thing on the on the but you have some cash on the

I do. Yeah I do. I do. Yeah. And those two should match. Okay. and like you know so and I guess the way to do that and to test this is to do the 26 numbers because we have all of those numbers from town meeting go ahead okay um anything else so uh this is wrong then so we will do uh so let me share the budget model again just I think I'm sorry. He doesn't want to share it again. He's like, I would really really rather not.

Yeah. Yeah. I subconsciously deleted that. Um, okay. So, this is this is this was a starting point. Did you take over? I just took over. Yeah. Oh, you should tell me that. Go team. Um, this this is where we started. This is this is the the overview of the whole the whole budget. So for this current year for this current year. Yeah. Yeah. As as it was that town meeting it may have changed slightly since then. But basically on one side you got all of the money that was is going out and all the money coming coming in and then the two of them obviously match 32 32 million.

Right. So the CPC funds for example a part of these you ATM articles year is sourced from free cash bonding CPC funds basically and TNC. So they that those those add up and and balance out. So if we're doing a model we should start should be something you know we want to see what what does this model look like in a year's time two years time five years time. So that's that's what we're trying to do I think. So we just need to make sure we're not double counting anywhere. Exactly. Or, you know, messing things up. So, right. And the challenge is what you have on the right side does not match what you have on the left side. The segmentation. Well, it does in in to in totality. In totality, of course. Yeah.

But when I'm getting into the weeds, when you get into dissect where does like ATM articles is is is a conglomeration of of things. Um, so the only way to make that match is to break that out the way you have it on the the right side. And and in this model here, you can go back and see where that number comes from, which is which is over here. This is this number here. But you have it broken down. And it's all broken down here. So So if you could pull those columns over. Yeah. Right. You could Yeah, you could pull those columns over to here and and say rather than having one big number, you could have all the columns there lined up. That's that's also possible for for 26. And then that that's the way you would be able to figure out the details and be in you know in balance with everything

because you know ultimately it's got a balance isn't it? It's got a balance between what's going out what's coming in and the gap is going to be the tax has to be generated. Well yes. Um can you go back to that for a second? Oh sorry. Um

but um so for example you know with regard you know what you just said but does that take into the account of financing for example so you've got bonding there as revenues? Yeah, because it's a source of funds, right? It's a source of funds for the budget for this for this budget. We're getting we're we're allocating money from bonding to cover that cost, right? So, just this is a nice simple spreadsheet, but it doesn't match the way that we've currently attacked it because if you remember, yeah, we're saying all the capital items are off the books because we're assuming bonding and capital items equal the same thing. In that case, then you take out from ATM articles all the bonding articles, right? It was it was still it was still balance.

I understand that. But this is how what you do here in nice all rolled up doesn't match our model. Both sides should come. Yeah. Can we make it match? I don't like I'm trying and really I'm I'm not being No, I'm not being I don't really understand how you guys make these Excel spreadsheets so big. So can is there's got to be a way to make it match. Like you have to Well, yes. The question is is it getting us anything, right? So like for for example like we can immediately say well CPA funding is going to be a number that's going to be the same on both sides revenues and expenses right same thing for um you know TNC who cares it's so small it's irrelevant

so the the items that have popped up are free cash like how do we deal with that we're kind of figuring that out I think at least I am right now bonding is another one we've kind of operated on the assumption that within our level of detail and the accuracy that we're going to have is it worth um doing it on almost a cash basis essentially, you know, factoring we get this amount of bonding in um and here's our payments and blah blah blah blah. Are we just going to assume that look, we have capital items, they're going to be bonded. It's an even sw even because that's what we're doing now. That 1.6 isn't the budgeted debt amount. That 1.6 is what is within the ATM articles that was bonded. Yeah.

Yeah. Right. So we're ignoring that column that column. We discussed it. We said we'd take it out. We take it out on both sides. So but Maria, you know, Maria's I don't think we need to make the We don't think we need to make the number 32 million on his model to match my number. I think we think we can take out some of those lines and still have a meaningful analysis that says that says we we need to know how much the levy needs to be in 27 and 28 and going forward. That's that's our that's our question, isn't it really? Yeah. I mean, that's what we're trying to get at. That is what's driving this exercise.

So, if you take out equal amounts of bonding on both sides and CBC on both sides, it doesn't affect the amount of the levy calculation that comes out of that. It's still be the difference between each side. The only and I can't say I know the answer to this. The only caveat to that is are we are we calculating these numbers in a way that is different than the way the overall tax the max tax levy calculation is calculated. Well the max tax levy calculation is based on last year's levy limit plus new growth and two and a half%. Any debts or anything like that? So it's

and then debt exclusion. Debt exclusion that is a separate line, right? But but that's that's how the levy is calculated, right? Okay. So I just I'm just trying to make sure. So I'm just trying to make sure they're independent. Yeah. So Tony, the question on this is where you have maximal max allowable levy 29 million. Yeah. Does that include items that are debt excluded? I can show you that. Okay. Yeah. I knew you would be able to show me that. Um we have we had 885. So you do have that. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So where did that where did we just go to there?

So I mean it seems like um as as long as So your question was is that how we would figure out the max and it is as long as you include you know those items. Y and as long as we're on the same page with whatever the assessor is putting in for new growth, which we are because we get that directly from Mike, we don't calculate that. They do. Yeah. Okay. So, and that's where we've been off. Have we relayed that information back to him yet or

I don't know. Raan, did you have you because you it was last meeting, right, that we talked about it. Mike wasn't here. Did you talk about the new growth? How far off that's been for the last couple of years with Mike because we mentioned at the last meeting? I don't know. Has it been off the last couple of years? I think it has. It's been it was this year and then we went back one more. We'll know that like when next week when he presents to the select board that will be in there. Is that possible? It should be in there. So, and it'll be adjusted in the discussions we have about It was more so about the budget guidelines and how

Okay. Okay, that's fine. I was just But we should we can find that out and then we should make sure that we talk to Mike and the assessor. And by we, I mean you because you're the chair. Yeah. Um to make sure that we're all on the same page because we've been underestimating that. And then that's ends up being how we have $4.2 million in free cash. But okay, we need to be careful with that.

Yeah. All right. So, just to end on mine little thing here. So, yeah, I will put all of the warrant items, the items in as best as we can here according to the specs they've just given me. Um, and we will grow them. That's the thing. So, what am I going to grow them at? I don't know how you grow those items. You've got to use the capital plan to grow those items, right? Because it's all based on capital. So what we did last year for warrant articles has no relevance to what we're doing this year for warrant. Right. So it's that's why we had the capital plan to be able to go through that and at some point I assume um

Ran has the letter oh the capital committee I don't know has a letter gone out to the department heads to say review your capital plan and get back to us. Gary when are we meeting our first meeting? We don't have one second. It was supposed to be two weeks ago but they canled it. Only thing we've done is department heads that capital requested you by December 1st. Okay, that's the only guidance.

Okay, so that should be based on I mean and I'm hoping that they got this guidance too, but they've had it all of all of our department heads should know this should be based on the capital plan. So we should be able to estimate you should before we get all that information and what's on the capital plan and that will be refined and usually gets refined down. Um, but that'll be refined. But that's what that's why the capital plan is. But but if we're making the assumption that the capital plan is all funded by bonding,

well, no, there's no source. There's no source of funding in that. That is just the plan. Here's the the items we may need. And then we look at the bonding or sometimes in the past and I we talked about this last year after within a couple of years of the override that we did 20 years ago for the next couple years after that any equipment we bought was done as a debt exclusion. So it was an override debt exclusion um because they were trying to make sure that this made sense which means it's an over bonded though. They were bonded, but it was as a debt exclusion. So, it didn't get it doesn't get added into the levy. Right. So, we've done that a couple of years. Doesn't get added into the levy limits,

right? That's what I mean. The levy limit. Yeah. So, but it's an exclusion. So, there is no there's no funding sources on the capital plan and there shouldn't be because we can if we need a roof somewhere this year, we could probably pay cash for that roof versus a bonding of the roof, right? Which is what we did. In general, we so things on capital plan are multi-year items that in general we would bond. I think

I think so, but I don't think we can make that assumption. And if you're just trying trying to look at articles that may come up, I think that we just, you know, you can that's how you can plug those numbers in and not and then in years out you may not be able to break out the bonding versus the free cash versus the yada yada yada. You know what I mean? You might just have to have one number. Okay. I see that as presenting a problem to the model model.

Yeah, it is. It's a problem because you because you then you need to put in somewhere where's that bonding source of funds to balance the model out because if you're if you're going to say there's a million dollars here on a firetruck, you know, that's covered by a million dollars bonding. Yeah. Right. But if you have a $200,000 roof, we may not want to bond that. We know, we understand that. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And so I understand the model might not work, but I think we need to the model needs to deal with the reality, too. And I don't know how you make that all work. I don't know if you talk to jet gpt and make it work. I I don't know. You know, there's something to be said for computers and there's something to be said for reality.

We will take this under advice. Okay. Okay. Good luck to you. Okay. So, it's an iterative process. Um, I will clean this up and I'll send it. Can I send it? How do I share it with you guys? The drive I know the you have to send it. You can send it to us forformational purposes only to be discussed at their next meeting and nobody can respond. Ah, perfect. That's it. So, literally in subject line forformational purposes only to be discussed at next meeting. Anything on the drive is wrong. Okay. Yeah. So I will place it on the drive forformational purposes only. Yep. Um please QC it. This is you know if you okay extra free time on a Saturday night. It's good stuff.

Wild. All right. I will stop fun. I'm over here googling my bonding question. So item 7B is the FinCom budget guidelines.

Um so this is what we talked about last time. We the budget guidelines and we have some discussion about some of these topics including we would not defer all warrant articles and capital items from even from the B budget. We would take we would just look at them high scrutiny. Um I also talked to Mike and looked at we you know we reviewed his budget guidelines he sent out based on this. Um, so I've come up with a slightly modified sort of streamlined version of this um to sort of coordinate what Mike's sending out and to try to make it clear and to have taken the note comments we made last time. So essentially the A budget is a level services budget. Um B budget is a level funded budget more or less. Um the numbers are the same there. Um there's been sort of discussion about the hiring impact of those. So with the a budget, we we want no no new hires. We don't want we want no new salary adjustments or hours or things like that.

Mhm. But obviously there's contract contracts and CBAs and things in place for a lot of those things about that. Yeah. Which which which will limit that. And then there'll be reductions again within contract limitations on the B budget. M um and then for for articles we we you know both of these are the same now they're now basically saying minimal but use free cash where possible basically um so that's sort of so the B budgets no overridefailed override correct mean we're not because we're not saying no override we're saying we're going to go for the over assuming the override fails yeah and we're going to present both these budgets at town meeting yes okay

yeah yeah so that's so that's what you know that's that's my modified version of you know again I'll take there was something can you go up to four I don't I would bold that word reductions personally like I think like the town people knowing you know not having override doesn't mean we just status quo we don't get the fire station it means people who work for the town are getting cut or being cut I think I think people are going to realize that yeah and I think we're going to have to do that in our presentation I just think like stressing that is is going to be important the flow of this meeting just because I haven't I don't think I've experienced one yet with the full budget presented. We line by line we give like a general overview how much detail

the way the way it works is that you know it's presented as as it as a whole thing but anyone in town can then say oh line number 25 I'm I'm I'm going to you know like let's dive into that there's some terminology you put a hold on that so then it's pulled out and discussed separately. Okay. Okay. Okay. And then then we vote the whole budget. Were you there for like the planning board one? That was the only one that was held last year. Right. And so that's a discussion that goes on. Yeah. Um, now I I don't remember how we did this when we did the override, but I I feel like Gary, I don't know if you remember this. Did we present Did Fincom present two budgets? I mean, there was definitely an A budget and a Budget. I'm pretty sure we did. Yeah. Like literally presented the A budget.

Yeah. And then had to vote on that. And then if that failed, we went to the Budget because that's pretty much that. But I thought maybe the budget had two columns. We just make reduction. I don't remember. We don't we just need to make it not complicated. I think we'd need to vote I think we need to vote both anyway because if the A budget passes at town meeting Y it may fail at the balance, right? And then we need to have a backup budget otherwise we have to go back to town meeting both voted actually even if even if A passes. Yeah. So maybe that's the way it is. Um on this page it says under B budget defer all warrant articles. We actually said we were going to scrutin scrutinize that. This was the one we presented. we talked about last time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So, this So, this one here is the edited version. This is this is the version two. Basically, this this is the the current version. So, we were but but we said we weren't going to defer on four. We didn't we said the B budget. We weren't deferring warrant articles. So, we didn't change it here. That's all I'm saying. Do you see where it says Budget and it's a fourth? Well, nothing's changed in here because this is the old version. Okay. This is now obsolete. Okay. So, it's just that that slide that's the new version. Okay. Yeah. This this is the version now. Great. Okay. So, should um the warrant article in capital B budget box be more restrictive?

Well, last time we said not when we discussed it last time we said it's the same, but I mean well I mean it's still it's still m maybe it's more minimal. I mean they're both minimal, right? I mean yeah we're trying to say restrictive in both. That said, if we have the free cash to pay for capital, we have to be careful about deferring capital because it's if if we don't have the money and we have no choice but to defer it, that's fine. Then we have to defer it. But if we defer too much to the next year, all we end up doing is bunching things up and eventually we're going to have to do, you know, we're going to have to do a big capital spend and it costs more

and it costs more cost. So, if we have the free cash to do capital spend this year in a normal override year, I'd say absolutely we have to cut that. But we have free cash and I think that's where we have to use it because we've already said we're not comfortable using it in the budget. Okay. So, fair enough. So, I talked to Kristen about this um and shown I've shown this to her as well and I'm going to go to next week next week's select board meeting and and actually you're all welcome to join as well actually. All right. I'm gonna go as well. Is anyone else gonna go? Could you We have to post a possible question. Yeah, we should put a quorum. Yeah. You want to come Monday night? Monday night. I want to go to listen to the tax classification.

Yeah. Um so um I mean obviously select will have their own view on budget guidelines as well. So they will have a discussion about what they think they should be. This is this is our this is our guideline. Um but we you know is it different than this? Do we know? No. No. I don't but I mean I think there's just I'm being careful that we're not saying we control what the budget guideline is. We you know we're we're you know technically only the finance

committee we control the article five. So we do control the budget. So that's why I wanted to know how different it was. I was a little no and this is more relevant to to the next part of it which is the budget strategy. So again I I come up with what I think our budget strategy is. Um again based on discussions here and this is my my wording and I and I'll take you know discussion and comments on this

but the the strategy here is that based on the background that we have of a levy limit increase growth of 4.3% and a levy increase of 5.5% over over 10 years. We've reached a point where we need to do a levy increase. And it's actually our strategy that we would expect to do a levy a levy, sorry, a levy limit increase every number of years. You know, we did one 20 years ago. We now time to another one. That is a normal part of the process. Um, and this is essentially status quo actually and and and nothing really earthshattering about it. And that should be our strategy is is that we you know we will do levying we will do leveling increases you know pop two and a half uh votes every p every number of years based on need and based on a sort of a steady and slow increase in in our in our in our um in our tax levy. Um that is I mean and that so that um is I think you know again broadly in agreement with what what Kristen's thinking but again this I think is largely a select board question about what the strategy is for the town budget. Um

I don't necessarily I mean it is but we have to have it's our budget. So for the other items something else right the other items definitely that you know we you want to talk capital and all of that that comes from the select board but we need to it would be better if we were all on the same page and sounds like we probably are. Yeah. Yeah. Um because ultimately it's our job. We're supposed to keep the budget within two and a half right. Yeah. That's not realistic. Well, let me ask you. So to that third point, bullet point in the approach, plan for an override every 10 to 20 years. Would everybody agree that that's a legitimate approach or fair approach? Everybody in the final. No. I mean, in the real into the US,

you know, some accountants from the state. I mean, I think right now that's the only approach whether or not. Yeah. Okay. The concept of props two and a half makes it challenging to have a budget. Understood. Understood. But unless you have unlimited growth, which Well, some towns have and some don't want at all. Yeah. Unlimited toughness. Exactly. Yeah. Which brings its own costs as well, of course. Okay. I just I get I'm very I'm a little conservative, so I'm just like I don't love that line being in there. I can't lie. I feel the same way you do. I don't think we should be planning for operational overrides. think

expect you know maybe we can expect it anticipated I like that word better planning makes it sound like we're going to budget so that in 10 years we need another we don't have to worry about the levy limit and we don't want to do that will creep into it every 10 years I don't like that philosophy so I like that better

but at the same time we don't want to get to the 10 or 20 years or you know I guess nine or 18 years and then have the fincom then say try to figure this all out again so maybe there should you know put this in a time capsule for those people then to expect the next one or you know put it in policy or um not policy but guidance some you know write it down somewhere essentially so that the historical knowledge of the need doesn't just vaporize once we get over the hill of it you know that's why we say is the feeling in box like prop two and a half is reasonable like a lot of people understand other than people involved

understand why it exists so I think that the the biggest problem in Boxboro is you have a growing senior population. 30% of our population is over the age of 60. Um which I take I take issue with the fact that they use 60 for senior but that's a different issue. So getting over that um so but there are a lot of people exactly um there's a lot of people in that number that really you know um feel strongly that we need to stay within two and a half because they're on fixed incomes. Um and But it's an unreasonable number.

It is an unreasonable number. And so that's the problem. But you still, your your question was specifically, how does the community feel, I think. And there's a, you know, there's less than 20% of the families that have kids in the schools. So there's this whole big number above that. And there's a lot of people who are like, you know, no, I want to stay. I reckon that's the majority of people who are against growth, too. John, you had a question comment. John. Yeah. I just I just had a quick question because Maria, I know you've said before too, the last override was 20 years ago or so. Do we know when the last one was before that where we even like does anybody even have some knowledge the last time we did it like before the 20 years ago? 20 years before that Prop 2.5 was just being passed. Gary, do you have any idea?

I don't Yeah, I mean I don't know when when two and a half went into effect. So 80s mid 80s mid 80s. Okay. So this So we've done like one or two of these is essentially what I'm trying to get at. So okay. Um I don't know. I was told at the time that was the first time an override had passed in Boxboro. Now I don't know if that was in the context of we've never had an override or it's first time that overrides ever. Failed we did the year before it failed and then um yeah and then we passed it. Okay. 80. But that need still wasn't there for

I mean we haven't had the need I know you've said for the last 20 years. So that I mean I guess what I'm trying to get at is you know there we're talking about seniors and not wanting to do the two and a half and all that but I think it reflects you know responsible fiscal management that we've had for the last 20 years that we're not coming

because we've talked a lot about we're not coming every two years for an override. You know we're doing everything that we can. So like this just kind of is what it is. It it just it bubbles up and it happens every now and then and we'll try and avoid it but we need everyone's support in town. It may be the other thing is, you know, when the school before I got on the school committee or this goes back a number of years, the the then school committee under Bill Ryan, who was the superintendent at the time, um, gathered and got together people from all over the state to change the way schools were funded. And it was because Actton school committee led that, the act school committee led that with Bill Ryan and went to Beacon Hill and did all of that. And so I think we're getting to the point where the elected boards, both school committee and select boards have to start putting more pressure on the state to say two and a half doesn't work. I mean two and a half was put into place basically by a group of people who were anti-ax. So it was the mass responsible mass taxpayers yada yada right.

Yeah.

So I think it's time that you know that the every town's going through this. But but you know to back up here I mean what I think we do need to have in the town we need to have a a budget strategy we can talk about because it's better to be making decisions like this based on a strategy rather than as a knee-jerk reaction to oh suddenly we need to have an override because we run out levy limit. So to the idea that we have anticipated this and and it's part of the normal process every 10 or 20 years or whatever is the is I think the narrative we want we want to have here. That's what that's what I'm trying to get. So the only thing I would add to the narrative is we have spent significantly more money in the last five years than we spent in the 15 years before that on adding, you know, we've added firefighters which was needed and the town voted on all of this stuff, adding personnel to town hall, adding hours aside from insuranceances and that kind of thing. um every time we add somebody, we add to our pension debt. And so that becomes a huge knot on this side that we have no control over, right? Because if we don't control it on the front side, we're we're kind of screwed on the back side. Um I think that I would also like to see our approach being, you know, being really, you know, fiscally conservative. That's what got us to the 20-year mark is, you know, there were a lot of times that the finance committee was, you know, literally fighting for $2,000 with the select board on town meeting floor. And we haven't done that in a really long time. Not that I want that, but I do think that our approach needs to be that we need to make sure that every single year we're scrubbing these budgets. I don't feel like we've done that over the last 5 years. No.

You know, I think we've been we started in crisis mode. When you got on and I got on, we were in this accountant that was in Florida and you know, it was crisis mode. Um, but now we're getting to the point where if we're going to do this approach, I'd like to see us be a little more fiscally conservative in our budget. So, how would you word that in in here then? I don't know, but I do think it needs to be in there. I think, you know, because Yeah, because the problem is if you say we're going to change the way we do things, you know, we we we've been too lax, it it's that's not a good message to send. I know. Yeah. I like your your strategy of sort of like we have a toolkit for this. We packed it. We're we're uh you know, experiencing it now and we're ready. Here's us deploying the thing we planned.

But the toolbox needs to include like additional screen. Yeah. It has to have a saw. Right. It needs to it needs to include right a higher scrutiny on on our finances. It needs to be what does that mean? I don't know line by line what we do that now. So it means line by lineation. Yeah. Like something like that. I mean it one of them is that number 5.5%. Yeah. Yeah. I mean you know yeah it needs to be you know does that need to be a tighter number? Should we be looking at 5%. Um just

well I think I mean I think continued scrutiny on the budget line by line which we've been doing and I don't think all fincoms do that in in all towns actually. No they don't. Actton doesn't. Yeah. So I think that's that is part of our that is part of our strategy. I think the fact that we have continued you know line by line scrutiny that could

and I think we need to take that and we need to be not afraid to say we're going to cut this out of the budget. We'd like, you know, we'd like for you to work with us, but you know, $2,000 for employee appreciation. We appreciate our employees, but right now is not the time to spend that kind of money. You know what I mean? And that's what the the line items, and we look at line items, we may need to cut, you know, I mean, every it's it's it's death by a thousand cuts with the budget. So, every hundred bucks makes a difference. If you do that 10 times, you know, where are you? You're at $1,000. Yeah. So, our 10-year average levy increase is five and a half%. You said it's too high. It's too high. Wouldn't that assume we need 3% new growth every year to have that math out at the end?

That's a fair point. So, does the planning board have a target of having that or are we just sort of like expecting that? Right. Because it's 2.5 plus new growth. So, if we have 5.5% increase every year, that requires 3% new growth. It's interesting. Right. Well, we're going to get to the point though, we're not going to have the property. Even if the planning board was like all on board with that, there is only so many pieces of property in Boxboro that can be redeveloped. We're all arguing for a lower number. I think we're just a realistic number. Like, we have to be realistic that at some point we can't say in in seven years we want 3% growth because we may be who knows if we'll have we'll have space to redevelop. Well, the other limitation is is is water and sewer. Mhm.

Yeah. That's a big limitation here. But yeah, I mean water we're bringing in, right? One part of town. Yeah. Yeah. But it's they they've got the um conduit things, piping things to be able to bring it over the bridge at some point, John, if we want to. That's being like built John. Julen.

Yeah. Just some quick historical context. I took a look. So, um Two and a Half went online in 1982. Um, and it looks like Boxboro followed the same pattern. We It didn't pass in '89, came back two years later and passed and then in 2003 it didn't pass and came back two years later and won. So, kind of same thing like lost and then two years later won again. So, so there's there's been four total, two wins, two losses.

Yeah. And and I think what happens is when there's a loss, when you bring it happened when I was doing it in 2006 or whatever when it lost, there were so many people that were floored by the fact that it lost and they started and we lost people. People were, you know, this because we had don't forget we had the school at that time. Blanchard was part of our budget. So there were cuts and I think people were just so takenback by that that then we came back the next year and said, "Okay, we failed an override. we scrubbed this budget, we are to bone. Like there is nothing else to cut it. There's no fat in this budget. Um and people realized and we had a very detailed list of and and Mike should do this. Um Rajan

on the B budget. Here are the cuts we're going to have to make. And it's very real. One firefighter, two police officers, two people at town hall. I mean, I hate to do that, but you know, three people for DPW, but there were real cuts. And that's how we got people to pass the override the second time because the first time there wasn't really there was this kind of like we're going to need to cut but there wasn't a here's what we're going to need to cut and we had you know we had kind of buckets here's the first line of cuts here's the second line of cuts and that's what we used to do on the school as well. Um I think that's where we need to be presenting that stuff though. I mean like

that would be how it needs to be presented. I mean, are we trying to I think we have to decide if as a town we're trying to expand our services in excess of inflation. I think that's a that's what it select. Okay. I think I think that's a select board policy that they have to look at and then we need to say, well, this is what it's going to cost financially and we're not in favor of that. Okay. No, those are No. Yeah. I want to stay in my lane. So, that's why I'm just Yes. And I'm also trying to be respectful of what the select board's purview is and what our purview is. I'm trying to sort of navigate between those things. So what you know what can be

what what what what do we execute on in terms of doing stuff which is select stuff. I think well I think we've all came back and said I want to increase I want you know free dog free police dogs for everybody. That was a bad example. But then we would say that's not acceptable. We're going to put in a budget that does not include three police dogs for everybody. And if you want that, then you need to make a motion on town floor because we're going to do the fin budget. Okay. Okay. So now you're now you're ignoring the now you've just crossed the line you just introduced five 10 seconds ago.

No, no, no. They can set a policy on what they're looking for for services. Right. Right. That's their job. our job is to say we can't afford that or we can afford that and so hopefully as you're setting the policy they're also being you know working with fincome right so okay so then our job is to say here's what the town can afford. Yeah, pretty much. This is what the town can afford. And we know that this year we have to go for an override because we're actually going to lose services like to keep our services. We're going to need to go for an override, but we're not we're saying no increase in services, right?

Yeah. I'm also saying 5.5%. I mean, I don't whether we'd achieve that with the school budget. That's another whole another layer of complexion on this. I mean, but um that's

but we have done that before. or we've done that where, you know, I remember that the police department wanted I think tasers. I'm not sure what it was. It was like $5,000 and FINCOM said no. And that was the FINCOM that believed I mean I actually had a conversation with a member of the FINCOM, not anyone present that said our job is to keep the budget within two and a half%. That was long before health insurance costs are out out of control and that kind of thing. But we said no. select board made a motion on town floor to increase the police budget line item blah blah blah by four and they had to do a presentation and then people voted and there was one year that there was multiple votes on different departments because FINCOM said no we can't afford that and the select board said we need it

I don't think we'll be in that position this year because I think we're all pretty much on the same page but that has happened in the past so are we as a fincom okay okay with me going to select board and saying this is our fincom budget strategy. Is that is that acceptable? I'm a little concerned with five and a half%. I would rather it say 5%. Well, we've already gone out and given budget five. I know. I know. But the 10-year average that's I mean I think that's the actual Yeah, the top top one is the is the actual right. I mean the question is what what should it be going forward? Right. But we were giving guidance of 5.5% to Mike. Well, I mean we can change that. We can go back to Mike say update guidance. I I

I mean part of the model is going to tell us that right. I mean although with an override we can we can do 5.5% I'm sure but uh yeah I mean with the override that's that's not the issue. I'm not even thinking from that perspective. I'm thinking of how much do we want to increase everybody's taxes every year. It's purely whether it's within the override rules or not. Right. I mean do we really It's it's higher than you know what I'm surprised it was 5.5% or 10 10 year average growth rate. I thought it was going to be lower than that but I know there's three there's inflation so that means the net services that were offering but it has been increased services increased services and increase increased personnel.

Two years ago we had a we had an override size tax increase the school for the schools that that I'm sure bumped up that average because we would you know that was a huge increase. That was a 15% increase. Yeah. Which we don't normally do the school budget. Yeah. No, I was there. So, you know, that's part of that. That's why you know five may be more realistic actually. Not maybe not acceptable, but it may be more realistic in terms of we are going to see a school budget increase, an assessment increase.

I understand that. we what we think it is or what you know what some other body is sending us for you know that we have to work with that doesn't mean it's our target yes and that's the difference between us and actton they set a target and the school has worked to that target for the last number of years um now unfortunately because they had to set that target before they did their override there were cuts and the school has made cuts but that is what how actin you know basically ALG sets the and the school goes in and this is your cut and this is your cut and make it work. That's how they've been doing it for years. I don't I think that you know they have some money this year because they had an override two years ago. But I mean that's how they've worked

for me within 5.5 is like you know you don't have to use it all. Um so for as guidance I mean but I know it can be misinterpreted like it's it's it's not a target to spend 5.5%. This is sort of speaking to the A budget because we already have 2% as our B budget. So in an A budget, if there was a really good justification to spend up to the 5.5, it meets our average and right instead of increase up to target of 5.5 instead of within target. If you did up to that gives us some leeway up to five. I would be okay with that, too. But that's I I I'm reluctant to sort of just arbitrarily make a

arbitrary. They are, but we've already sent out guidance to the school and to the town about these numbers. I mean, I don't want to go back. We've just had a change of heart and now it's 5%. Well, and a a budget is level services, right? So, um, you know, average meeting our average leverage increase up to that exact number doesn't feel exorbitant. It's part it's part of the of the sort of, you know, this is consistent. This is this is status quo. basically things would you know things would increase beyond inflation because we because we have you know there is growth in town and this is this year's budget budget strategy and you want to use it as longterm.

Yeah. So the thing is I'm feeling like I'm not as comfortable with 5.5 long term. I but it says up to I'm much more comfortable with that language because you know honestly if we're going to try to maintain a levy capacity and not have an override in three years we're going to have to be tighter in budgeting and we're going to have to scrutinize every item that comes through. And um that also means we may not be hiring for a couple years and you know Oh yeah. Y you know because we have to control our pensions. We we the pension is not controllable if we're hiring. Um and I've been banging my head.

That's the the one drum I keep beating because I I think it's really important to understand that it it puts us pensions is the same category as um health insurance and retirement. And well that is the retirement. Those are the two big categories we have no control over. So, so you want to go what are we doing with this? Well, this is what I have for right now and this is what I'm going to go to select board with next week if we're all okay with this. I mean, it's not ideal, but up to get you somewhere under five and a half. I'm I feel like I'm the only one with the five in mind. So, well, maybe

it's not a hill I want to I don't need to die on that hill because of that change of language. I'm okay with that. But, you know what? Next year, maybe it is a hill I want to die on. And so we're going to send out a bunch of guidelines on the hill now because we know it's not going to get easier next year. Do you think it's going to get easier next year? No. I'm like to change it because we've already sent out guidance. I hear I hear you. And I also want to have this sort of narrative that we are consistent. You know,

I think we look at um you know what I think we look at it again next year and if things aren't better, let's see where we land next year. you know, the school's going through reorganization. There's things happening. Let's see where we we shake out. And if we're not in a better place and the school's not in a better place, then maybe we're at 4.5. Who knows? Yeah. It's a strategy. I mean, I think we should do it earlier in the process. I mean, that's the problem. We I'm trying to make a strategy up here sort of after the fact in a way, which you which is not ideal. So, so we do it earlier, but we have the basis of it already done and we just got to look at these items, which makes changing it next year in September easier. Yeah. Yeah, should be the first thing in September if

Yeah. And I want to hear where we are with the whole school situation before I start pushing either direction. I'm like very

I'm speaking on this super super aggressively, but I'm pretty conservative and set on kind of plan B at this point. I think the next couple of years, like if you look at the financial data that the Fed's been putting out, it it puts us in like a pretty disastrous financial position um on like a federal and state level. And because Massachusetts doesn't allow for like town-to-ount taxing of income and all the other taxes that you might get in California, we're pretty restricted. And the more the state pulls funding, the more and more we're going to have to rely on property tax. And I feel like with an aging population on a fixed income, we're doing the majority of the town dirty by presenting a budget that's not going to be in favor. Um, I know it's like a loaded thing to say after being silent for 20 minutes absorbing this, but I I feel like the B budget is probably going to be in favor of the town. It's like an eat your vegetables budget to put us in a reasonable position in the next three years. Like if you're looking at the incoming data, we're we're going to be in a bad way nationally for the next 18 months.

So, I'm really concerned about that because we're going to lose federal and state funding and that only leaves property taxes in Massachusetts. Same idea, slightly different angle. Yeah. And I'm trying to predict the future is insane. But macroeconomically, I don't know if the trends are all positive for the Western world for the next 12 to 36 months. Who know? I mean, who knows? Yeah. So, are you saying that Michelle um Michelle then that we should um not have an override? Yeah. You're saying we you

like maybe I'll be the the one hater on the override plan, but I don't think we should have an override. You have an opinion. Yeah, I I really think the way that things are trending right now, we need to be protecting the population and I don't think it would be a huge shock to people with the rest of context of everything else happening in the world that we're going to have to make some cuts to keep critical services stable. Like I would rather protect the services we really need and cut now. So the other option is you can do the override especially override passes you can still do the override and do a more restrictive budget. I'm down for that too within the within, you know, because

the benefit of the override is it gives you a levy limit capacity with some flexibility. You can then have some choice within that, right? With a failed override, we've got no choice whatsoever. Whatever hap, you know, we we're stuck with with your limit. The limit. Yeah. Yeah.

Which I'm okay with like adding a little bit of flexibility. I don't think I'm okay with that allowing ourselves this much flexibility because people are just going to take what we give and I'd rather just say now like we need to brace for impact because that's that's what I'm reading from like the private sector and that's what I'm reading from the news generally. Well, we did the billionaires tax two years ago in Massachusetts, and while it hasn't trickled down yet, there's it's it's proven to be a pretty effective tool. a little bit today. I don't know if you guys signed on, but um a lot of people in the town uh signed on to the fiscal crisis letter that was sent

um on behalf of the schools and a bunch of other communities uh basically, you know, demanding that the state provide more assistance um to offset the fiscal crisis that a lot of towns are facing primarily regarding schools. So, Western world, yes, I agree. Massachusetts kind of the ballast of the western world right now and has some things working for us. So I I agree with the conservative um approach, but I have a little bit of faith in the system that we have in this little corner of the western world. That's fair. Um and yeah, I

I haven't even said that you still need to, you know, someone's paying for the state to fund the schools and it's us through taxes. And if businesses are down, then we're not paying sales taxes. Like we're not going to the store and buying coffee and g not groceries, but like everything else in Massachusetts taxes. Yeah. And I'm worried that like those benefits won't even the rate at which policy moves in Massachusetts, those benefits aren't even coming to us till 2027, 2028. Which is why I'm like I don't know. I don't want to be like the grim reaper and be like, "No, I think it's cut from a good perspective."

I I think it's probably proactive and I'd rather not put ourselves in a position next year to be like panicking and having to slash things we don't want to. Um, we're in a position now where we can really pick and choose what line items without panicking. And next year, if we're like forced into, I know another cutting year, that's going to be a lot more painful. We're not gonna have a choice in what we cut, right? But I think we can do that. I think once we get the a budget in. Yeah.

I think that's what budget Saturday is for. And that's that goes back to my the level of scrutiny in this budget, you know, and and I get kind of push back from members of the select board when I say that to them. But this this has got to be a super tight budget and there are things that are going to come out of this budget that have crept their way in. And we should look at the B budget and see what it really looks like because you may find it's actually not that palatable either. There may be things there which cut. So well we don't have that yet. We don't have it there. We don't have it yet. So so I think we need to look we need to sort of look at both and we'll have both and we have that information ahead of us and budget Saturday before. Yeah. Um so and we can yeah we can do that

and we have to the the most important thing is whatever we put out we need to be completely transparent and um we don't want people to think these are scare tactics around the the override. The Budget's a scare tactic. The Budget is we need to make sure that we keep it is this is a reality and you know we have a lot of credibility because we've worked really hard the finance committee over the years to to gain that credibility. That said, we just if we we put forward B budget and the override fails, we have to live with that B budget and we have to know that and everybody needs to be on board with that. Exactly. There can't be a well, we're just going to move this here and put it there. It's going to be this is your budget and

that'll be really interesting to see how all the different departments kind of pick and choose what that Budget is sacrificing because that's, you know, a whole bunch of different strategies converging on that one day. And to that is that sentiment passed down through the department heads, right? Well, that really needs to Well, yeah, it need Well, otherwise the gaming goes on. Well, but well, it's also got to roll up to within that, you know, 2% number because um a lot of these lines will increase regardless, you know, insurance and health, you So, so it means actually disproportionately cuts will come on personnel services, the stuff we control.

The stuff we control. So, it's not going to be level services on personnel. It's going to be real cutbacks in those. So, we need to see what that actually looks like before we can really make I think a judgment on that. I think as a as a ping. Yeah. Um the other thing which pristine threw up which I think is a frankly a crazy idea is that if the override should fail we should just carry on anyway and put another town meeting on the budget to try again within a very short period of time. I try what again? Wait you think we should do this? No no no this is what you've heard Kristen throwing out. It'll be a topic of discussion I think on on Monday. Damn. Um,

it's not I don't think that's realistic though timewise. Well, yeah, there's also the Regency a fourth time this year. What are you going to do if you fail a second time? Then you're really in a hole, right? Well, what but what's going to happen is because they moved the to get to the regency, we had to move our our uh ATM date forward a week. Then we had to move our election to the first week of June. If it fails, you need 45 days to put a town meeting on. So she can come in, but she's not coming into a special town meeting until July fiscal year started. So we're starting with the B budget whether we like it or not. And then I think at that point I don't think you're going to get people because you have to go through the same thing again. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I say I'm just I'm just letting you know that's that's that's discussion is going on and I don't agree with it. Who's going to show up to a town meeting in July? All the people who who do not want an override to go through because an override failed the first time. Unless it was like literally by five. We had that in Actton, you know, unless it's super close. It's crazy to try to do that a second time. Okay, it's probably enough on that for now then. I think, you know, I was going to say I just think too based on what I found historically and Maria what you said,

all the work we had to go, you know, previous FinCons had to go back and do, we couldn't do that that quickly to get it to pass. You know, it's going to take a lot of work if we want to go back and get it pass. So, and I, you know, we actually had a there was an override committee in town that started in June after the override failed in May. That June they started. There is, from what I understand, there is not an override committee and we can't be that committee, right? Because it's a ballot question. Um, and we shouldn't be that committee. That's we we we should give our opinions and let the town um I don't know who's going to be on that committee because right now the people that normally would be on that committee because they're worried about the schools are right now worried about losing Blanchard. Yeah. As a possible elementary school.

Right. Right. So that's where their focus is and hopefully that's going to be decided in the next two or three weeks. But don't energize them to be poked. Exactly. And it I will say the one thing is that you know this has poked the bear and parents have decided okay I need to be involved because you know how do we get here? That's how we got the overrides passed. But right now they're very focused. They're focused on Blanchard and making sure you know where that goes the the AB forward stuff. So I I don't know who's going to be working for this override. Right. You know, another thing we I need to talk to Becky Harris about is getting this training for us about

um what can we what what can we and can we not say as we go through this process. Yeah. It's a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Because it's a ballot question. It's a huge deal what we get to see at the table. Right. So, uh that may be a joint select board thing on training. Maybe I think it should be. Yeah. Yeah. And if if the members of the um school committee from Boxboro want to join us as well. There's Liz. Liz is very happy about that. I said that. All right. So, you're going to go forward with this on Monday night. Yep. Yep. But maybe kind of explain in that our concerns that you heard from the committee going forward. Yeah, I will. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Next topic is fire station building committee.

Oh boy. Gosh. Okay.

It's another light light topic. Um, all right. So, actually we actually made, I think, some pretty good progress last week because we eliminated properties. We voted to eliminate certain properties. So, um, we had another property pop up and I think at that point we decided we had to make a decision as to whether or not we were going to spend money on it. There was a property, um, two 276 Middle Road, which is, if you're looking at community gardens, to the left of community gardens. Um, and then there was the community gardens property that we were looking at. There was the 750 to 832 where the blue house is in the the road and 502 the initial the original space. Um also the the the address that was secret big secret last time which was worst kept secret in town um is 984 Massav. So that's right where Mark White's place is on Sarah Way to the left right now. Treaty Masters owns that property.

Um 130072 Still Road. So those are the properties that we looked at at the beginning of the meeting and we decided that it was time to start eliminating property. So we asked the chief in order of priority what would his priorities be on property based on operational um including sight lines and all of that. Um the chief said 984 Massav 1300 Massav and Stow Road. Um 502 pro from a program standpoint did not work. um 7:50 8:32 there was a real concern over the sight lines. We could put lights up, but ultimately the chief was still very concerned about sight lines. They were trying to pull like his truck out like he has a regular, you know, SUV. Um 70 276 middle and 296 middle. The chief went there as well. The sight line wasn't too bad, but the road is extremely narrow. like trying to pull his truck out.

He's like, "There's no way I can get an engine out of here." And there's Depot Road intersection and there's the depot road intersection. So, I mean, you know, it it uh Community Gardens actually has got a wider section of road in front of the Neville's house between community gardens. But, um both of those the other issue he had and he had brought that up with the community gardens earlier on in the process is the driving from there down to Massav. That would I mean that's really good, right? Um, it's not a straight line. So, you walk there all the time and stuff. Exactly. And even I mean, even when I drive down with my car, I you know, when you get to that bend, I go way to the left because there's always people. Yeah.

Um, so he was very concerned about that. So,

we voted to take off the 750, 832, 276, 296, and 502. 502 was just we were expending so much effort trying to justify our numbers for the swing space when we knew we had a problem with the program. So we just decided not to go forward with that. So we are now currently testing we amended the contract to do environmental testing on 984 um which will include borings test borings um one other engineering test and a phase one environmental Um and then a phase one because we the assumption is on 1300 there's a pretty massive building on that site. So um we can't keep that building. We would if we bought that property we would probably have to raise that building. And if that building can be there then a much smaller fire station can be there and the ground is pretty solid and we wouldn't have issues. There's a well there. We They did look good in the leeching uh leeching field and septic, but we would need to do a phase one environmental unless they already have a 21e. And um that was something that that Mike was going to look into. So that's what we're going forward with. Um we are hoping to have the information on these properties. Uh we have 45day due diligent letter of intent on one of the properties so that we can do our due diligence. Um and then hopefully we'll go from there. I I I think that literally the Stow Road property is probably it's a good piece of property. It's ideal. It fits our program. But the one thing that continues to come up is the abutters. And at our last meeting, we had one of the people, I don't think it's a direct butter, who said that they would just hire an attorney and keep us tied up at court. So, we're not looking to to spend the next 10 years in court trying to build a fire station. So, but it's still on the list because

ultimately that is the least expensive piece. Um, so that's where we are on that and we will continue to do our engineering studies and all of that and whittle it down as much as we can. Does anyone have any questions? Can you remind me of how 984 or which one was it? 984. Yeah, 984 came to be. How it came to be in how it came to our attention. So, it was it was we looked at it years ago. Yeah. um because it's not a bad piece of property, but at the time the person who owned it, which is a different owner, um wanted he was trying to do a housing project on it. So the the price

was, you know, kind of included this housing project. He was in front of the planning board. There's some ledge. There was a lot of reasons why that didn't work back then. Okay. Um the owner came, the town happened to be there for something. The owner came and spoke to the fire chief. The fire chief was there. They're doing some site plan stuff. So, the fire chief was on the property. Okay. He mentioned it to the fire chief and then mentioned it to Mike. Okay. So, that's how it came to us again. But this is a different situation now because like I said, last time there was a lot of things on the list that took it off the list. Y um including this development that was supposed to go in. So, Okay.

Okay. Are there any concerns with Burrows Road for the 1300 site? Just I know they just repaved it, right? But, um it's super narrow. boats um just like if they were going to access anything south of where they are. So if they were logistically would they be going out to Still Road anyway to go down into You're talking about 1300, right? Yeah. Yeah. So if it is anything that's not on um they would have to access, you know, it depends, right? If it's anything on Mass A on this side of town, obviously they would turn on to Mass A. um if they had to go burrows, that means that they would end up having to have gone stow to burrows anyway to get to that section down. So, you know, it's I don't think there's any bigger concern about that.

I'm just curious like if they were going to Flag Hill, like are they always going down that that bo the burrows road twisty turn? I don't think so. I think they're going to they go massav straight down a summer and then down. Seems like it takes them longer to get to their neighbors and they're not going to be going down Harvard road much, are they? Not unless there's a fire. If your house is on fire, they'll come down that road. Otherwise, you don't need to worry about So, this the same thing they were talking about when they were in Stow. They're like, "Well, if there's a fire, um, you know, an old old Harvard, would you turn down and go that way?" And, you know, the chief said, "You know, 80% of our calls or 90% of our calls were taken a I got to do this. Oh, right out of the parking lot to mass have." Yeah.

So, um you know, I think they're always going to try to get to the main road to get there faster. And any way you look at it, it's going to be faster. The that was one of the problems with the middle road propert and you know what? Quite frankly, the we I this question was asked of a firefighter, but not in a public meeting. You know, you've never hit a kid on a bike, people like how many pedestrians and they're like no, we've never hit anybody. They're not they don't go down these side streets crazy, right? Like you know they've come up middle and hill and I've driven in Boxboro before. I mean particularly yeah they would they would not go there to get to Yeah. You know. Okay. The website

just to get to John's house. The website says 1300 massive just massive avenue. What website? Your website. Does it really? The milestones. Yeah. Latest project. Did you hear that Rajan? The fire station building committee page says 1300 massive app. No, just say just massive. He's a web guru. Just says massive. So maybe we could just change that. That would be massive. Massive massive. So anyway, so that's is there any other questions? No, that's helpful. Thank you.

So I'm sorry. So when is I'm sorry I'm sure you mentioned this, but when is the next iteration? Um, we have an executive session coming up to talk about U. Mike was going to be reaching out again, but right now we have to wait for the testing to get to a final point of making um, you know, sitting down and really coming up with numbers with the owners and making that decision. Um, and and you know what you're looking at is the options in no particular order starting at $1.2 $2 million somewhere in the middle and then up to on 1300 4.5 because if we even bought the property we would have to take that building down and that's about 700,000 without knowing if there's a speestous in the building.

You'd have room for a police station there too. Uh yes, but that's not something, you know, we could look at a plan that included possibly building a fire police station there at some point, but the town has been very clear. Um they want the police station across from the school. Um that is and they, you know, we can't do a public safety building now because we'd be looking at a $60 million building and we're having a hard enough time. Oh, no, I'm not yet. Yeah, but you could you would you might have room to you know expand that area. But I just we're not thinking about that so much. No. But

that said, you could have also have room if you do it, you know, possibly for another town building, maybe eventually a community center, that kind of thing. We'd have to really see what that plan looks like. Okay. Thanks. uh school committee. I think we obviously we heard from Liz. So any other thing I have is um let me just bring it up from the last meeting were the meet uh the things Liz mentioned on the philosophy. Hold on spazzing here. One sec.

Have they had a capital meeting yet? Yeah, they just made a presentation on as a matter of fact and I have a little bit on that as well. So just bear with me and am I no longer in the meeting? In our meeting? No, you're here. Why? And you're a co-host. Yeah. Yeah. I want to share.

You press share first. See, that's so dismissive. I was thinking even I know that although although I wouldn't be able to find the document I want to share after that massive now this is not what I want to share. All right. But thanks for letting us know where that typo is. It's going to be worth the wait, I promise you. There we go. Coming up.

Yeah, it's not coming up. Um, what are you looking to share? It's their draft budget guidelines that they went through the second iteration on as uh Liz has her hand up. Maybe she has it. Liz, hi. Do you have it? Hi. Uh yeah, so I have it here. I don't know if I'm able to um share to show the Nick, can you make Liz a co-host? Thank you. There you go. All right. Can you guys see that? Yes.

Uh yes. Thank you. So, um, we are going to be looking to set our operating budget at an increase between 375 and four and 4.25, which is going to be an even bigger reduction than we had um last year as well because it's still going to be a 2.3 to 2.9 million reduction in a level service budget for us. And so, um, not like me just doing some extremely rough math looking at like the $116 million that we had last year, the 3.75 would present, and this is again my extremely rough numbers, like literally just rounding on big whole numbers. It would be somewhere between like a, you know, almost 6%, you know, 5.5% increase to the assessment for box row all the way up to, I think 4.25 25 was closer to like 13%. So just because you know Boxboro is you know roughly 15 to 18% of that you know uh $18 million budget that we would be looking at because it was 116 million last year for the last you know FY26 you know increasing it by another two we're looking at roughly $118 million somewhere like that. um you know the it's just that we are a smaller piece of it and so any light variation does tend to affect the assessment for Boxboro much heavier.

Yeah. Can I ask a question on this budget? Go. So Liz, does this increase does that include in contract negotiations? It includes what we are forecasting for um contract negotiations and um I will tell you that we are still like we've got our next uh meeting at the table is tomorrow.

Okay. And then my next question is does it include any savings from the AB forward stuff that that Peter has said that he's going to try to implement for next year because some of those savings are like 1.6 million and up. So I know that it conservatively con um you know assumes some savings that basically you know when looking at the uncontrollable costs and the increases that we um you know are looking for are looking at for the next uh fiscal year. It was basically like we have to implement some changes otherwise you know it's going to be too much uh of a cut that we can't you know or or it would be too expensive. So, I do know that it does include conservatively some, but I couldn't I wouldn't be able to pinpoint exactly what it is.

So, now that being said, you know, tonight is the steering committee where they're going to be whittling down to, you know, some of the options like what the options that the committee will actually start thinking about and, you know, potentially opining on. So, are they so that so that's my question. So it it includes some of the savings but not like for instance a $1.6 million savings in some of these options or there's not a number you can put around that. Correct. Correct. We can't know that yet. So, you know, we're trying to be conservative in our, you know, plans and estimates and we can only work with the information that we have now. Okay. Thank you.

Yeah, I was just going to show the exact similar numbers. Um, let me just try. I know it's getting late here, so I'll be quick. But this is important right there. All right. Good. Let me zoom in. So Liz, I came up with a similar number. So um this is just for everybody so the mechanics of it roughly. And this Liz, keep me honest here. So this is the the budget we had for last year, the overall school system budget. Um then if we're just assuming a 3.75 increase overall brings you at a budget of 120 million for 27. And then this is a a swag. This is a very simple um estimate of what the state aid subtraction factor is. It's very simple.

And is that assuming the $30 per student that we've been told to assume? The assumption was that it's equal to last year roughly. That's basically where I got that. But the last year expectation or the last year what we got because they increased us from $30 a student to $150 a student last year. La uh last year from what they got was roughly in the 19s if I remember correctly.

Okay. So you can expect that to be less than half because we actually because we had advocated so hard so like fierce fiercely with our um legislators. They were able to increase. So, initially they said, you know, expect $30 per student. And then they said, okay, maybe we can do 75. And then what we actually got was $150 per student. So, we were able to add some positions back last year, which was great because of that funding. Um, and I can ask um I'll ask Sher to get me the u exact numbers what that $30 per student number would look like for FY27, and I can get that to you.

Okay. Yeah. So I mean just using last year's as a proxy brings you roughly to 101 million. And so this is the allocation that I got from Adam regarding the the town acting box and pearl split roughly 17.65 and that gives us uh a box again this is just a swag but it's 17.8 8 million for our school system for ABSR part of it. And that's a 5.9% increase overall, which is pretty much what Liz just told us. So good. Good for you. That's impressive. Me and John smarties. Um, so we Yeah, I mean just but it's better than we thought though. We think 10% I think at one point.

Um, well that's on the low side, but if it comes up at 4.25, it's 13%. Yeah, I mean it's still 6%. I remember 5.5%. I remember 5.5. Yeah. Um and if that state aid goes down. Yeah. Well, actually, well, she's saying it's going to go up, right? No, last year state aid, if this state aid number is the 150 thou dollars per student versus the 30, it's going to go down. I was hearing I was hearing 15. Okay. So that plus we don't know we don't know how the um federal state you know federal education aid is going to affect Massachusetts because I don't know if that would trickle down to this year or if it would be FY28.

Yeah. So if we can get that from Sherry that would be great. Yeah. Thank you. Um so that's it on this stuff. So the what else did I have? Oh the capital meeting uh committee meeting. Yeah. One sec. Let me pull that up. See if I can pull it up. but they made a presentation to the school committee. Um, talked to it last time. Um, no real surprises. I think we it's Yeah, it's what we talked to last year. So, were you here last week or two weeks ago? No, you weren't. Okay. Um, basically about a million net of capital, which was So, I I did review the video. Yeah,

I saw you note about that. Okay. So, anything in particular or Yeah, good news that they're not cutting No. Um, but they are concerned. A lot of that has to be paying the bond back too, isn't it? Um,

we took a we took an original bond out that covered 9.7 million, I think, or 975 million to do some rapid. So, a large chunk of our of the capital fund is going to pay that interest in principle back. So that didn't I didn't maybe I missed that angle, but that didn't come up. That wasn't part of the discussion. So their presentation was basically on their plans of what they're finishing up right now and the plans for 26 and how with what they have approved and funded, it's it's working out okay. But going forward, they're very much concerned about two things. One being the the rework of the school system that's kind of affecting what they should and shouldn't work on. They don't know yet. And secondly, the they're worried about the deterioration of the capital plant. it's kind of accelerating because of the life basically where the everything is in its life cycle. So that's something that they want to come back to the finance committees with like heads up this is probably needs to be a bigger number going forward.

So did we get a capital plan from the school? Um we have a presentation. Yeah. I mean and they reviewed it with us. They don't give us possession of it unfortunately which is I mean I can ask but I've asked before. So, can you be great to see a capital plan? Sure. Can you ask about the the loan, the uh bonding piece, the interest in principal if that's included at 1 million or if that's covered someplace else? Okay. I I will ask for it specifically and um yeah, I mean they're very quite frankly they're a little bit lerary of giving that out um for whatever reasons, but I do ask. Yeah. So, I will that's all I have.

Okay. Um, I just got an update from the I don't even know Liz if you've heard this update from the um AB Ford meeting tonight. They've eliminated option one, which is the status quo. They've eliminated option nine, which is possibly Yeah, I know. They've eliminated option 7 B1. I don't know what 7B1 is, and option 8 B1. Can you stop sharing your screen? Um they've left option. I think seven and eight had to do with the um junior high and high school. Oh, right, right, right. Okay. Yeah, probably that makes sense. Um so that would be moving six up to six, seven, eight, and maybe eight into whatever. Um for now, option five is still on the table,

which is Blanchard, which is um yes, Blanchard. um both versions of option five are still on the table but within that um I believe if if I'm not mistaken if I read this properly there was a member of Boxboro committee that said that he would no longer support option V1 based on option 5V1 based on the research that said too many transitions is not good for kids and educational reasons but I'm not there Liz so I don't want to I'm not exactly sure but I do know that option five both versions are still on the table. Um so that is um where we stand which means option

and I can say anecdotally that we have heard um you know a lot from the box community uh against option five version one. So you know I will say that that is something and like we are reading all of the emails. You've heard a lot from actton too regarding that right because I've not I've heard a lot of people from Actton also saying they're not happy with that option. So, we actually haven't heard very much about option 5V1 from Actton. At least I have not seen emails about it. What I've seen emails from Actton are specifically with the um the school cultures um in looking to protect Conit and Miriam respectively.

Um so, the other thing that since our last meeting I went um oh maybe I did talk about the Conan being a $50 million a $50 million rena. Did I tell you that? So, in the slides, they have Conanit listed as a $17 million renovation. No, I didn't I didn't know that, but that came up in that came up at the community meeting. Um, but then somebody really really pushed because no one really understood where that number came from. I still don't know where the 17 million came from. It came from the 2016 study that they did. Yeah. Okay. Well, a lot has happened since 2016.

Exactly. But that's the only real number. Um, and Peter said that that was an old number and it looked like it would be closer to a $50 million renovation. So, um, you know, there it is. Like if you're doing $50 million in debt on that school, that's money that's going to debt and not education. And so, yada yada yada. So, anyway, that's where this stands. They go back, they meet one more time, and then it goes to the school committee. Um, and yeah, so my opinion on the outcome, but whatever. Okay, good. Um, so next topic is we've been asked to do a calendar year 25 report for the end of the year

already. Yep. Well, well, due by January. Wow. Tony, before you move on, I have a question for Maria. Uh, oh, I wasn't here last meeting, but you said you've been hearing rumblings about the five goes through about pulling boxar off out of the region. Our planes out of the region. No. Okay. Is that not possible? No. So, to be clear, I heard parents say we should pull Blanchard out of the region. Um, I think it I made it clear to a lot of people in order to do that. I mean, what a catastrophe, but let's get past the financial catastrophe that would be. Um, you need to have expensive for us obviously

far more expensive. Like I I still even though I'm frustrated with this process with the Blanchard with this option um I still think that regionalizing Blanchard was the way to go that there's no going back on that. That said, you would also need the Department of Education to approve it. I don't think the Department of Education has ever approved of a decoupling of a a region. Um they're actually they've been encouraging over the last 15 years regions, you know, forming regions because it's it's you know, it's much more costefficient. So absolutely the question was without changing the regional agreement can we pull No, we'd have to I mean we'd break the agreement but I mean it just you'd need the state blessing for that piece.

Yeah, but you can't just I don't know how you would do that. Even if you went to town meeting and voted to secede

secede Blanchard um you still you know we're part of an agreement a written agreement like you know could act and sue us. Yeah. That just gets messy. it just and for those people part of the problem that I have found through this process is the historical information isn't necessarily front and center. So when people are standing up at these meetings and just saying Boxboro should just go on its own, what they don't have is the people that negotiated all of this or did all the numbers. Boxboro left. Boxboro went to the region for a reason. We could not afford to stay on our own because we still need to have superintendent, a principal, a director of at the time it was a special education director, now it's director of pupil services I think and a business manager. So we beca we would become so topheavy in administration we'd have to lay off teachers to pay for the administration that by law we need to have. So it's just not realistic and I know that that these the school assessments are a lot of ouch right now. Um, we do need to keep in mind that for a long time after we originalized there wasn't as much because you know um there was a good we were saving on the Blanchard side. So there's a lot of history

whatever it was helped both towns essentially. Yes, it definitely helped both towns. That said, you know, there's a lot of history that went into this and combining the schools. There's still people in town that tell me I told you so, especially through this process, which is getting a little bit, you know, it's a lot, but um I still think it's the best decision box made. And the I don't think the state would allow us to uncouple and going to town meeting and getting a citizens petition to go to town meeting would not allow us to do that. We are part of a regional agreement. It's a non a lawyer. It's a non-starter. It's a non-starter and should be a non-starter. So, okay. Thank you.

Okay. So, um yeah, so I started to work on a draft because I sent out to everybody. It's actually very similar to last year's version with and I I'll change the numbers. Um then some of the commentary will change a bit. Uh but much of it actually will be the same actually. But so please if you get a chance just review it and and uh think about that. One thing I was going to add to it actually just going down the page here. Um I was looking at um where we assets and liabilities for the town. So I thought it'd be useful just looking back at the dashboards to see how do how are our funds and and our liabilities changing year to year over the last course of the last three years. So stability fund we've gone down a bit relative to the um operating budget. Um free cash use that one year for

we used it one year. So the qu one question might be should we think about topping that up from free cash at some point. That'll be a town meeting warrant I should I think to do that and and the thing we we used it to fund was an ambulance that we're not probably not going to use that money for. Yeah.

So that's something to keep in mind before we put money into it. So yeah, just to just bear that in mind, you know, we may want to think about topping that up a little bit because 5.1% is sort of down right down our guideline actually of 5%. So yeah, we can do that. Um overlay reserve is is negative, but I think that as we've discussed before, it's probably too too high a number anyway, but it's still a negative trend uh is taking relative to um although it's gone up and down a little bit actually relative to operating budget. Um, right. But the overlay we think is too high. Right. We think it's too high. But but the trend is negative. That's what I'm saying. Do we know what is 26? Um, do we know what that number is in 26?

We we do know what it is. Yeah, it's um the dashboard you'll find it. But um so um yeah, I I don't know off hand. But uh anyway, so those are the numbers there on in terms of unfunded liabilities. Um, the good news on OPED, I haven't got the the 23 numbers yet, but we've actually have quite a good positive trend on on the OPED liability because we've been paying it off. Um, I I'm waiting to find out from from Hongwa what the pension liability is. And there's obviously there's no fund, I don't think, funding that. We just pay an assessment each year, but the liability will change, I think, over time.

So, it' be good to sort of track what that's been. Didn't Mike present like maybe once we catch up on the OPED to then transition into a pension? Yeah, that's our that's our policy to do that. Yeah. So, be I think we be to see what it actually is and how that's trending over time. Um and and then um in terms of debts, you know, I've got here the the bonds um and where that's trending. But um so so debt service as a percentage of operating budget is is positive but of course that will change dramatically when we get a new fire station. But I just thought it be useful that sort of like a threeyear look back in in the report. Great.

I do think that's it's important to note that we have not done a major infrastructure build in this town since the library. Yeah. Um and DPW was on the list even before the fire station and we like fell into this building. That was $1.7 million. Yeah. Once we did some upfitting in it, it ended up just under2 million. That was the best deal ever. So, you know, I think that's one of the reasons that our debt is is fairly low. Yeah. But we also, you know, we're in need of some stuff getting done on these buildings.

Yeah. I was also looking at the debts. There's there's some things in the debt in the debts that we've actually um voted on and haven't actually banned or bonded yet, but I'm wonder they're quite they're smaller ones whether we should use free cash for those instead. I mean it need to be a town meeting article to do that. We should look at it

but we could we could look at that I think because there there sort of small there sort of smaller smaller things. I mean maybe I'll just show you quickly actually if I stop share go to the dashboard it should we should be able to see that um zoom now if that's something we really want to think about doing Tony, we could also think about doing that at the special town meeting if we don't think it'll be too controversial. Um,

we don't have to hold until the annual. Yeah, depending on whether when that hits. I guess that would be the question. So, just just looking at what's um a future bonding here. So, we've got for example the Culver 124,000. We've got the avenues covered I think by funds. The Hager World Chlorine system is 72,000. Um so those two things could be covered by free cash I think potentially. Yep. At a special town meeting. So you just take it just takes a little bit off the off the bonding burden and and use some free cash up.

The thing with the Haker Well, we need to talk to um we need to understand the school pays part of the maintenance on that. Yeah, there's a fund for that, isn't it? Right. So, we need to figure that out because if we're going to pay, we don't necessarily need to pay the 72 if there's going to be offset from the school or is that 72 net of that? I think that's net of that. We need to confirm that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I mean 72, what do we say? Said 124 and the 72. Yeah. It's not a big amount, but I mean it's um something we can take off the prec and we know that the ambulance will probably end up off because we'll probably have enough in the fund. Yeah. Ambulance fund for that by the time it like

comes off the line. Yeah. So anyway, so that's Yeah, look at look at the um report. If we really want to do that, we need to put a placeholder in if you want to do it at a special town meeting. I don't know. Do we have any idea when we're going to fund those? I guess what we need to figure out is when that's going to be funded. or bonded. And if it's before May, then we would need to put a placeholder for special town meeting from March. Go ahead. I'll talk to Mark about that. Yeah. Would we put it in the warrant or just do it on the floor? You have to put it in the warrant. Yeah. Yeah. You have to put something in the warrant. So, um at the microphone, did we do that this year?

It's not in the budget. It's in the budget, but it hasn't been done yet. No. If it's done this year, the school's money and budget's gone at the school budget. It was budgeted for this year and they're in and they're operating. So, we need to find out if it's going to happen or we don't we lose the school funding. We can't lose the school funding. They sign an agreement. They do. They need to put each next year's budget, right? Or they could encumber it. You know, they could encumber it in June and pay it. But if they know about it, well, we have to be upfront with the school about whether we're going to spend it or not this year so they can plan how to do it, cover it, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Right. If it's in the budget, then then we definitely need to understand that. And this is Yeah. Yeah. I think that's we've started that. So, is it already bonded? Yeah, I think that's in It's not It's not in the It's not in the band list. It would be well actually it is it is it isn't unless it's TBD.

Yeah, it's on here it says authorized unissued on this list you gave me just now. Yeah. Yeah. So the work has started but we don't we haven't paid for it yet. Hegar well chlorination. Yeah. Yeah. It's on their projects, capital planning projects. So we should figure that out because Gary's not wrong. we need to, you know, but if it's in the budget and we're bonding it and they're paying for it and this is net, the bond is net, then they should, if it's budgeted, they we need to bill them for it. So that's Yeah.

Yeah. We really need to be on top of that. Excuse me. Bless you. Okay. Calendar um nextcom 12 second of 2nd of December. Then we have a BLF. Um so um I think it was largely talking about the school thing, wasn't it? I think yeah, they put it off to that. But I mean, uh Liz, are you guys going to may have a decision by the third or you'll have the whittle down from the the final whittle down?

That was the plan was nothing to have. I think that we'll have more of a whittleled down and we'll have um because after uh tonight's meeting as well. I know that we're planning to do some more community feedback as well. Okay. Um do planning board go to BLF there? Yes. So should we have that discussion about planning and growth? I think we should. So I'll get put it on the agenda for that meeting. Yeah. I think it's just I think we all need to know what our roles are. Yeah. On that. So they may not agree with their role but yeah. Um okay then then um budget Saturday

January the 3rd capital the 7th of February and uh weekly meetings from then onwards from from budget 70 fund is budget 70 January 3rd. Yes and capital is the 7th of February. Okay, committee reports. John Grieven.

Sure. One sec. Let me just get to the right dock here. Um, couple different committee reports. Um, so RECCOM put in for CPA funds for the new Flare structure. Um, that's just continuing to update Flare. Um, as of right now, you know, they've done a little bit of the update a couple years ago. Um so the finishing off flare is part of the master plan and um also in the CP uh the community preservation plan and the capital plan. So that should be going through uh but not much else for reccom um sustainability uh updates. Um we had our meeting last Thursday. Um year one the for the green communities update the LED lights are going um in around town all the different town buildings like fire library DBW town hall um and separately the weatherization of Blanchard. Um the bid is out for these items. Um it was brought up and I know we've discussed as well. Um there's still continued concerns on using green communities money. um for Blanchard um and also any further investments in the current fire station. So the sustainability committee is definitely discussing those topics which was good to hear from a uh fincom perspective. Um you know so currently the plan is to really hold on doing anything else uh on the fire station. So there's more clarity about you know timeline and planning for that. Um to note though the green communities

John sustain on sustainability on the the swap shed which we voted for and paid a huge expense. It seems to be closed for the winter.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Um yeah. Yeah. And I was going to get to that in just a little bit for that. The the um what was I going to say? Uh so just one last thing about the green communities is the um we had found out right before the meeting a bunch of those things that have gone out to bid it came in lower. Um so if they have any remaining money they'll um work on the town hall and library library uh weatherization which is the first thing you have to do in green communities before you can do anything else. Um yeah, the swap shed went live. Um and the biggest uh stumbling block there right now that they're hoping to overcome by the spring is um still need a lot of volunteers to run the shed and educate everyone who comes to the transfer station to really understand like what you can drop off, what you can take, and kind of how it all works. Um Kate Davies talked about, you know, hopefully through the spring and into the summer once um everyone gets kind of up to speed and educated on that that we'll be able to leave it more open and not need volunteers there um you know for the full shift that the transfer station is open.

When does it reopen in the spring? Uh probably we were K said they were aiming for Earth Day. So late April. So the Christmas tree I just dropped off last week. Someone can pick it up in uh April. Yeah. Yeah. I I think basically you need to put it in the old spot where we used to put stuff. Maria, that's what I say. We we actually talked about that. I think uh we're back to the old leaving it in front of the bins for people just to take and then you know the DPW folks to just dump in the bins. So there's a spot in front of the first bin that we used to put stuff. Yeah. So we revert to plan A basically from from November till the spring. I was I I'm just a little Wait, I'm kind of baffled. It's just a shed, right?

Like I've been there. It's just a shed. So So in theory, it could be self-governed and someone could check in maybe once a week and remove trash or we could put a sign. Yeah. I mean, ideally, yes. But um from what I understood from the sustainability committee folks that have volunteered, there's been a lot of um they've been getting a lot of questions of what goes where, what you can take, what you can do, and all that kind of stuff. You can take anything. Surely you can take anything. I don't know if there's been volunteers cuz when I was there is Kate Davies herself was the one doing it. So, you know, I understand.

Maybe some maybe some feedback would be is there a way so we could get more use out of this expensive purchase. perhaps in the means of like signage or other volunteers that could help besides outside the committee in in the season where there's people who need the things that might be available there too. You know, this the coming months would be the time I would expect people to really find some gems there to maybe keep the Christmas spirit alive like a Christmas tree. Actually, I do I do have a like a legitimate question. Actton has a LEGITIMATE

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. I KNOW YOU DID. NO, you're the legitimate question, too. But I'm trying kind of chuckling as I ask this. I'm not No, no, no, no. I'm This is I'm chuckling, but I I really mean this as a real question. Actton has a swap shed. Actually, Actton There's a whole bunch of towns. Do they all have volunteers or is it just sort of self-s serve because I thought it was all self-s serve? I don't know the answer to that actually.

Okay. Um, yeah. No, we did talk about that too about also trying to get more volunteers outside of the sustainability committee and even just like maybe linking in with the high school so they can fill their volunteer hours and things like that. Um, and any other groups that may want to do that. So, I think that's a work in progress right now. So, I'm just Why does it need this much policing? Yeah. So yes, there was a lot of people pushing back about that it would turn into a big pile of crap and so maybe maybe it's from community feedback, but it it is by Yeah, that's I mean when I was there it was a lot from the shed. It's just not a pile shelves.

When I was there it was like a flea market outside the shed. So unless they're you know stacking it as a cube in Tetris at the end of the day it's No. And I can I can hear people somebody doesn't want to have the job of having to okay now it's my job to make a make this mess go away. I can understand that. But why are there like limitations on what you can take? Yeah. You would think you could Oh, no. You can take kind of whatever you want. It's more just um trying to help. I I think they also probably don't want someone coming in there and just cleaning the whole place out. Um because I know why why not why not?

Um but we we didn't talk too much about that. Um the the conversation actually shifted more to now that it's closed. Um I I we didn't discuss this too long, but it sounds like some people hang out at the transfer station and like to scoop up everything all day long. And I think DBW has concerns with folks just kind of almost dumpster diving all day long, if you will. But it's still they still do that though, don't they? Basically, it would be trash for everything else. So um Okay. I I I'm with you. That seems like the spirit of this whole the old thing, right? One man's trash, another man's treasure kind of thing. So,

I mean, I just want to get our money's worth out of it. I think is my feeling. And I didn't realize that it was going to be closed for Yeah. half the year. I also think that people in this town, we're adults, so I think part of it is I don't want to be policed, right? So, um John took my air fryer that I didn't want because it was too big. It was driving me crazy. Put a sticky note on it, says this works. and put it in front of that bin where we used to put stuff. It's gone like that because, you know, so I mean, we're all adults. We don't want to be policed on what we can take or not. I don't know. I don't understand. I thought it was just sort of, you know, somebody's trash is another person's treasure, whatever. Whatever. And so, they should be able to go in and get their treasures. Yeah.

I thought that was the point. So, it seems a little crazy that it's closed. Okay. Was that the original plan for it to be closed during the winter? I don't think so. Um, but I don't I I don't know what they had lined up for that originally. No. Yeah. I don't think that was in the original when it's voted on. Nobody said it was a six month thing. It was a Yeah, I thought I thought it was year round. It's my impression. I mean, it wasn't explicit, but you'd expect we're adding a swap shed to the the transfer station. You'd expect if the transfer station's open, the swap sh seasonal, it might have changed my vote on that. Same. Can you John? Can you have the unenviable position of taking this feedback back to them? Oh, no. I will. I will.

Thank you. Without the snickering, just legitimate questions. Very. And and yes, tell them we're we're asking legitimate questions even though we're giggling a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, D. Anything else? Sorry.

Um, yeah, just one other thing. The waste reduction working group, we're going to start kicking that off in January. um that has been delayed because our our tech rep retired um and a lot of positions in in at the state house, you know, aren't being filled. Um and I think that's uh we discussed how that's probably kind of intentional as we were alluding to earlier in the meeting. Um so we'll kick that off again. I did bring up uh the fact that I think we had talked about even just some of the feedback I've gotten from all of you about how this is going to be a tough cell. it's failed a bunch of times of even just starting to explore could we just have one trash provider in town and they thought that was a halfway decent idea to start looking into because honestly I don't know if we're going to get a state rep to fill that technical position to help us um guide us through the waste reduction working group because they're the one the the tech rep is the one that has all of the numbers and all of the modeling that we would need at FinCom to like look at it and be like oh this is a good idea or this is going cost too much or whatever it is. All that feedback that I would be looking for as a liaison to want to bring back to all of you to be like, hey, this is going to save the town money or this ain't going to work and it's never going to fly. So, um, we're still working on that for for right now, but not nothing going on there till January. Um, and then the last thing I have for water resources committee, I'm finally going to meet up with last on Thursday to catch up and, you know, discuss their priorities and any next steps for that. Thank you, Joel.

But that's it for me. Yeah. Thank you, Michelle. Yeah, I have some CPC uh funding requests I just want to keep everyone informed of. So, the conservation trust fund, there is an increase uh from $10,000 to a request of $25,000. It is not clear from the application why. Um so, that was my feedback during that meeting was why. Um so, this is supposed to be like a little slush fund for them if something comes up.

Yeah. So my essentially my reaction was after going through like what they spent money on the past 15 years was there's nothing here to justify like no projects upcoming like there are no planned large spends that require this increase so why the increase they're going to go back and do that detail. Um that was a big one. The cemetery commission is $9,500 for ongoing restoration. This was like a well explained and I guess an ongoing thing that's been happening. Um the rental assistance program is $69,000 which was we reviewed the application. Um and this has been like a super successful program and we essentially said like this is exactly what CPC is supposed to be doing. Is it higher than last year or is it the same? It's about the same.

Okay.

Yeah. Uh the new roof for town hall that was a new application. Um there's a significant amount of data in the application um about town hall being a historic building. So, also like pretty pretty straightforward. Um, one that uh actually is pretty interesting in this context, the Flare playground replacement is $300,000. Uh, that floored me. I was shocked. It see I did not know that playgrounds were this expensive. Um, and in the application, we received simply a print out of the quote, but zero explanation on like why it was expensive, how it was bid, what is exactly unsafe. There are concerns raised about like the safety of the playground and, you know, getting the town getting sued because someone got hurt, etc., etc., which I think are fair, but I think I would like to see a competitively bid system and not like maybe we don't need the Rolls-Royce of playground. I don't know what playgrounds go for, but I'm sure I'm going to find out.

Um,

this is from Recon, right? Yeah, the replacement of windows for the 1857 schoolhouse number two. This one I'm super familiar with um from historical society, but also is one of our I think our only remaining original school houses in Boxboro. Uh $20,000 spend for the replacement of windows and I think also directly related to community preservation. Um, there was one more in here that is not in my notes, but essentially in summary, there's just a couple in there where the applications are incomplete or baffling uh to the group. I I think the play I did not know that playgrounds were so lucrative. So, we're we're going to continue to go through the applications. Um, and John's been doing a great job taking us through that. So, I feel pretty confident that we're going to have a rigorous review process between the group. Our next meeting is the 4th.

Okay. Michelle, how much was the town hall roof? Uh, give me one second. $144,000. Thank you. Mhm. And you said rental assistance 6,900. 69. 69,000. 69,000. Thank you. Yep. And I have pack I brought extra packets. I'll bring them to the next meeting if anyone wants to review the justifications. Okay. Thanks. And when was the uh the meeting the CPA meeting? The CP CPC November 6th. Okay. It's the first Thursday. I asked because my first report was going to be the conservation commission um had discussed their CPA application and that they were going to be requesting 25,000. Did they discuss

for conservation? Oh, for conservation. So, it sounds like they actually reduced it down to 20. So, wait. She said 25. Yeah, it's 25. I thought you said 20. Okay. It's 25. But do you know why page? Um, no. Okay. I don't I I'm going off minutes. I I you know, as you guys know, go and find out I'm on I'm on the lower impact uh liaison ships because uh I don't have time to go to the meeting. So I I review minutes and agendas. And that's I think they they they film they tape. So they might be on TV. I usually put it on and open a browser and put it on while I'm working so I can listen to it. I mean, I don't know if you on Zoom calls all day. So, whatever, but that sometimes does that that helps me to like understand more the flare of it, but

did eight hours of Zoom before this Zoom. So, you don't know why either? I don't know why yet. I'll get into that. You know, when the post Okay, Gary's going. Here we go. Does Gary know? Uh, I need to give you a little history. When we created the conservation fund 10 years ago, 12 years ago, it was it was essentially a fund $5,000 a year to build up a fund so that the conservation commission had some money if they needed to spend it. Right.

About six or seven years ago, they just suddenly bump and it's in the capital plan by the way at now 10,000. I kind of fought it every year when they bumped it up arbitrarily to 10,000. And u I went five years complaining about this a town hall town meeting floor and it finally capitulated after I kept losing um so 10,000 it's and it's in the capital plan is 10,000 right now it's in 10,000 for the next three or four years so if they arbitrarily try to build it up for no reason I'll be on town meeting floor again reminding the town of history of this fund

that it's meant to unless they're trying to rebuild it for some reason I'm not aware they spent any money their balance right now has $46,000. So, like I said, I I don't understand. I'm sure there's a reason. Maybe we don't agree with it, but I'm sure there was I will reach out some reason. So, I will say the one thing that's important is it if it's not on the capital plan for 25,000, they need to make that change because one of the things that we ask for equipment on budget Saturday um is is this on the capital plan? Right. So, we understand. Yeah. So, you need to you need to push back. one of you both of you need to just I'll contact them and just ask for justification on it at least give them let them explain why and then I'll bring it to you and it's not on the capital plan so that's

on who it would be under CPC though so but we still vote on that and and actually we've had FinCon members um sit on CPC and vote against items um steel farm in particular um so you know so we don't necessarily you know if if it's a good idea just to be sucking money away for no apparent reason is crazy. It'd be conceivable if there was like some big capital program, but the application had zero to do with it and the largest amount they spent was like they were like, "Oh, in case we need to acquire a parcel like is there a job?" Yeah.

I mean, their job is invasive management. I don't know if you guys have driven around and seen the absolutely abhorrent amount of invasives that are all over every one of our properties. I think they need more money, but I don't know if that wasn't without justification is for this fund was for studies. They do have a list of ongoing projects and conservation is very important. So, so I think it's important to go back to what this fund was for as you go forward in listening to them because it's not to purchase piece of property. They need to come to the town to do that. They don't have this fund was not established part of the application that said like land access. Correct. It was set up to be that if we're going to buy land, there's some upfront money that was needed to do that. Engineering, that kind of stuff. Exactly. That's what it was supposed to be for, right? And so you can't just change that to maybe a piece of land comes up, we want to buy it.

Yeah. They don't have that authority. No, they're appointed. Feedback has already been given to them from me um and John and the rest of the committee. John has it stand up. John, grab it. John. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Just uh real quick, Michelle, just for a little background for you. The $300,000 cost um Oh, the playground includes a includes for the playground includes a contingency um but it's for the equipment surfacing installation and also to bring it up to ADA compliance. Um but I'll see if I can I obviously know the reccom chair, so I'll see if I can get you a little more information on that one. Yeah, that one was just like confusing because half the application was missing, so we didn't have any of the context.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I I'll take an action item to take care of that. Thanks, John. My feedback is that we've spent a significant amount of money on recreational fields. We just did the other playground and we just put a significant amount of money in a playgrounds on Liberty. Yeah. And I'm not saying we shouldn't do this project, but once we spend $300,000 on that, we don't have that money for any other project. We So that's my push. That's my comment to our representative to CPC. So noted. Thanks. Okay, that's me.

Uh I just had one other uh from library again working off agendas and minutes. Um but allegedly last week they um voted on the salary budget for the library director which was not public at the previous meeting. So I'll find out about it. This is for the upcoming year for fiscal year 27. Yep. And then they also voted on A and Budgets. So we have at least one of our departments doing the A and B. Um, and I still haven't connected with Ed um on DPW about all the capital items. So, I'll be now I have two people to contact um for the library. I heard at the select board meeting that they got a $100,000 grant for a generator.

Basically, you got to have a backup generator at the library for any contingencies to happen. Mainly, especially here at town hall if we need to relocate town hall to another building. So that was great for them. Um my only other update is CP no Council on Aging. I went to their meeting. Um the select board is talking about increasing the uh transfer station fees. Um and the Council on Aging was concerned about right now um seniors over 65. So you see how that distinction happens. so get a free um uh transfer station pass. And so they felt it was really important that that continue for the seniors in town um that they get one free.

Not sure, you know, with the B budget whether we can do that or not. Yeah. I I didn't even get into that because I don't I'm not sure if he was serious or sarcastic. I don't know. I He looks serious.

I'm serious. I'm nervous. I'm a senior myself, you know. Yeah, I but I think that so anyway, see the council on aging um did um vote I don't even know if they voted to have bill send a letter to the select board stating that this the council on aging thinks it's important that they keep the passes free for people over 65. that letter was sent and um you are 65 so you can go to the senior lunchon um in December which has got 51 people signed up for and it's because the singers from the high school are coming the magical m Yeah yes singers they're amazing yeah they sang at the veterans day

yes they are amazing so they are singing and that's it that's all I got from the seniors okay your planning

planning yes thank Thank you. All right, I'll be quick because I know it's late. Um, so I was on I go to all the go to all the Zoom planning board meetings. Um, and one of the things I've asked Tony to add to the BLF um agenda is that um I I we're talking about new revenue, new growth, and I was on last night and this is a different applicant than the one I've spoken about before, which Campanelli. This is a different applicant for 975 Massav. He has been in front of the planning board for eight months. The site plan review that is to build a because there's the DPW, there's a piece of land next to it that has a metal kind of like contractor's building I call it, right?

And the same owner wants to build one next to that same type of building. He has been in front of them for eight months. Um, and every time he goes in front of them, there's they there's more and more this and he changes the plan. last night they butt up against their legal um they have to make a decision there's some legality about how long you can go on site plan but I mean they have I've been watching these some of the their points are legitimate but they just continue to drag this out and this is why our new growth number though it's a little higher than we anticipate we cannot you know we're not seeing new growth because this stuff is just dying at the planning board level I think I've asked Tony to put it on the agenda I think that there needs to be a global understanding between the finance committee, the select board and the planning board what it means the new growth means and what it means that if something like this building could have been online or getting to be online to be online next year for tax revenue but now they were they were on until at least midnight I think what

debating on the trees in the front

well they they voted to approve it finally but with like all sorts of conditions and yes debating the trees you know these are the trees well they're not going to mature for 15 years and people might see the building. It's on Massav. It's not that they're building it in a neighborhood. So, there's concerns around that. Campanelli is the same thing. They've put him off. I think his hearing is in December for conditions. I mean, and this has been going on for the same amount of time. So, I think it's really important that we all kind of get on the same page. The planning board has a job and you know that is to make sure that everyone's following the bylaws of the town. But if people are following the bylaws, we shouldn't be stretching this stuff out. this is what the new growth is. So, I think it's a bigger conversation. Um, but it I I almost felt bad for for the applicant last night. He finally was just like just vote. I need to know what I'm doing because he's been stretched out, you know, and he's, you know, it's not a huge developer. It's it's a guy trying to put a building up on piece of property.

They seem very focused on prevention. Like, what what can how can you poke a hole to make it not happen universally from what I've seen. I've only been here so long, but there's certainly a couple. not like an enabling of the things that can get yes. It's how can we drag this out to either a no, somebody walks away because they can't afford it or we get to yes but you know it's going to take us eight months to get there. And I think that's the problem I see. So on another planning related matter, we had a a letter an email from planning from plan the town planner here about the um the town um vision plan. Oh, the master plan. Master plan. Uh Boxboro 2030.

Yeah. So we we had an action item on there which was we are supposed to be looking at acquiring land using CPC funds for conservation which is really not our action item. So last this happened last time this I think two years ago we we got a request for an update of you know how you doing your actions and we said well that's not us because it's a CPC matter. Um so so I spoke to Alec today and he he agrees it's not us and he will change it in the spreadsheet so that in future we should be not you know not not in the spreadsheet as an action item to think on. We have no action items in that in that right

but the only action item we have is if it's debt they decide to do debt is us to look at that and make sure they can afford to pay it out so it doesn't hit the but we're not an actionoriented committee really. I mean, we're just Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Good. Yeah. Anything else, John? No, I'm good. Okay. Okay. Then I think we've come to the end, unfortunately. I move to to adjurnn. Second. Seconded. Um Okay. I need to do a roll call to um to accept that we adjourn the meeting. Uh John Grieven. I uh Michelle I stopp I

Neil and I. Connor I. Newton I. Okay. Meeting ended at 9.