City Commission - workshop

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Amen.

Good afternoon. We're just waiting a few minutes. Commissioner Lam is on his way. Thanks. All right, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for your patience. It is 1.39 calling the meeting to order.

Commissioner Joseph. Present. Commissioner Stuyvesant. Here. Vice Mayor Vizcarra. Here. Mayor Svecchin. Here. We have a quorum.

Okay, great. Thank you.

So we have a couple of changes to the agenda for this afternoon. Before we begin, Mayor, the following items have been deferred. 4G, discussion regarding the elimination of upland property owner beach event requirements for residents. Item 4H, which is a Gateway Center rentals discussion. And additional information has been provided for item 4C, which is the Save Our Homes from Excessive Property Taxes Bill.

OK. Do we need to vote for this?

No, we do not.

All right. Please go ahead.

So with that, the first item that we will be considering is special presentations, item 3A, the public recognition of Officer Justin Laurado and civilian rescuer Michael Danilo Centeno.

Good afternoon, Mayor, Commissioners, City Manager, distinguished guests, members of our Police Department and OSHA Rescue Division, and members of our community. Today, we gather to celebrate two important accomplishments that reflect our agency's commitment to service, professionalism, and the protection of all members of our community. First, I'm proud to announce that both our Police Department and Ocean Rescue Division have successfully completed specialized autism awareness and response training through the International Board of Credentialing and Continuing Education Standards. This achievement has earned our agency certification as an autism certified organization, a designation that demonstrates our dedication to creating a safer, more inclusive, and more understanding environment for individuals with autism and other sensory sensitivities. To receive the certification, our organization must ensure that at least 80% of our personnel complete the required training. I'm especially proud to report that our agency simply did not meet that standard. We exceeded it. Today, we're proudly saying that 100% of our Police Department and Ocean Rescue Division personnel have completed the specialized training. This certification represents far more than a credential. It signifies our commitment to understanding the unique needs, behaviors, and communication styles of individuals with autism. It equips our personnel with tools necessary to respond effectively, compassionately, and safely during interactions and emergencies. Most importantly, it reinforces the trust between our agency and families we serve. And I would like to do a special thanks to each and every one of you for constantly supporting all our initiatives and for your passion when it comes to autism. So the value of this training became strikingly evident during an incident that occurred on May 21st, 2026. I'd like to call up Officer Justin Larrado and Michael Centino. So at approximately 3.45 PM, Officer Justin Lerato was working the school detail when he was alerted by a passerby that a juvenile ran and jumped into the intercoastal waterway. Without hesitation, Justin immediately responded to the area of 183rd Street and North Bay Road, where he located a 17-year-old male struggling to stay afloat in the water. Faced with a rapidly developing emergency, Officer Arado acted decisively, recognizing that every second mattered, he immediately attempted to rescue the young man from the water. However, given the victim's size and height of the seawall, the rescue presented significant challenges. I'm proud to say at this critical moment, a civilian landscaper working nearby Mr. Michael Danilo Centino observed the situation, without hesitation ran to assist. Working together, both Justin and Michael each took a hold of the juvenile and successfully lifted him from the intercoastal waterway onto dry land. Thanks to their combined strength, determination, and teamwork, the young man was rescued without injury. Once safely on shore, Officer Larrado utilized the skills and awareness that our autism training emphasizes. He remained calm, reassured the juvenile, and worked to deescalate the situation while requesting fire rescue personnel to respond. Shortly after, the juvenile's father arrived on scene and explained that his son, who has autism, had run away unexpectedly and ran into the water after spotting an open gate. The outcome of this incident could have been tragic. Instead, because of the immediate actions of also Lerardo and the selfish Assistance from Mr. Centino, a young life was saved and a family was spared unimaginable heartbreak. Their actions exemplify courage, compassion, teamwork, and unwavering commitment to helping others. Officer Larrado's rapid response combined with the extraordinary willingness of Mr. Centino to place himself in a challenging situation to assist a stranger reflects the very best of public service and community partnership. This incident serves as a powerful reminder of why we specialized autism training is so important. Understanding how individuals with autism may react in stressful situations enables first responders to provide safer, more effective care during critical moments. This afternoon we celebrate both the achievement of becoming a fully autism-certified agency and the heroic actions of two individuals whose response embodied the purpose behind that training. Please join me in congratulating our Police Department and our Ocean Rescue Unit on achieving autism certification and in recognizing both Officer Justin Larrado and Mr. Michael Centino for their outstanding and heroic service to our community.

come down and take a picture. Thank you. I just want to add that what and I have a feeling some members of some of my colleagues are going to want to say something as well. The fact that we are 100% trained is incredible and that we have members of the community willing to do whatever it takes to support this community is really, really incredible. It just goes to show how closely we all look out for each other. And I want to thank you both. And I want to thank the chief and everyone for everything you do to support the most vulnerable people in our community, those with autism. Thank you.

Anybody want to add anything?

Thank you. So over the years, I know Commissioner Vizcarra and myself, we've sponsored courses for our police and fire and ocean rescue. And I just want to add for myself, I know Jennifer will say something as well, that we're very proud of our departments for the work they do and how they've picked up on autism training, and how important it is for continuing training for new officers. Thank you.

Commissioner Stevenson, did you want to say anything?

Well done, but I mean what what else can we say super proud of you guys and I love that the training. It's not just a credential but clearly. Everybody did the assignment right so and then the life was saved and hopefully many others so thank you so much, thank you.

Next item is 3B, media division awards.

Mr.

Manager?

Mayor, vice mayor, members of the commission, a lot of times with our media department, we only think of social media. But there's many other things that the team does. And it's very important that when you get recognized by an outside agency, I think it has special significance. So a lot of times, our employees are working behind the scenes. With media, they're essentially working every scene of everything that we do. And you're familiar with all of the team. But they received two awards that I wanted to mention today and then ask them to come up. And this is under Leah's leadership, who has done an exceptional job. In April, the team received second place from the Florida Municipal Communicators Association. in the annual annual report category and the award recognized our city managers report our annual report for 2025 which we have available in the back so that's significant and then in may the team earned second place in a national award for the National Association of Government Communicators for our calendar, for the city's 2026 desktop calendar. So I'd like for them to come up and take a picture, and we want to thank them and recognize them for what they did. Thank you.

Do you want us to come down or stay up here? No, let's go down. There's not that many of them.

Thank you.

Congratulations again. Marisa, before we go to the discussion items, can you please remind everyone how the comments will work, public comment?

Yes, so at the beginning with the new process of the Commission has implemented public comments are accepted now at Commission workshops there at the beginning of the meeting before any item is called in this case for today. It's my fault. I'll take responsibility for that. I didn't call for public comments. However, we did receive one just a little bit ago, but the public comments are limited to any item that's listed on the agenda. It's different from the 630 where We also have public comments for each item listed. But in addition to that, we have a dedicated section that's for general comments from the public. So we have a public speaker, Vitaly Falkovich.

OK. Hi, Vitaly.

My name is . One of the things, earlier was a perfect example how amazing Sunny Isle Beach Police Department is. I think one of the best police chiefs that we have on one side of South Florida, and that depends on because we have an amazing city manager. There's amazing administration. And if you're a citizen and you live here and you get to vote in November, this is a perfect example of who you want sitting here, nobody else. And I think that's amazing that you guys do a great job. Thank you.

Thank you to tell me I'm sorry the rest weren't here but the chief heard you so that's he'll he let them know I think they all know how much you love. All right on to 4, 8, please.

For a is a discussion item regarding the renovations, the town center Park.

Okay. Thank you.

Honorable Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commission. Back in April, we presented to you the schematic design for Town Center Park. You had several comments. The team went back, did some renovations, and we have Sarah Landucci here today to present you with the updated version.

Hi. Hi, thank you. Thanks for having me. OK, so as Susan mentioned, we were here in April. We heard some concerns, and we wanted to present the new design to the team. On the screen here is just some existing photos just to refresh your memory.

We are discussing Town Center Park. You can please just be closer to the microphone. Oh, is this better? Yeah, we just want to make sure that everyone hears. Great. Thank you.

So Town Center Park, I know most of you know it up here, but for those in the audience that don't know, it's on Collins Avenue in between 174th and 172nd. It's a very highly visited park, and here's some photos of it. This is the location. And as you can see from the dashed line surrounding the playground, there is a 10-minute walk radius. So it's very visited by pedestrians, a lot of residential within this area. And another significant thing to note is on the west side of the park, it is a conservation area. You can see it in gray there.

Some more existing photos, which we already went through.

This is showing just a site analysis. Some important things to note here is the building location is on the west side with the purple star. The playground is on the south side with an open lawn to the north. There's an existing gazebo and shade structure as well at the playground. As you move further north and to the west was the meditation garden that was completed back in 2024. There's an existing parking lot with about 13 spaces. And some constraints of this area is we are very close to Collins. There is a wind tunnel that comes off of the ocean there. So providing that noise buffer from Collins and also to the north where the residential units are is very important for the new design. Here's some character imagery that has inspired the new concept design. One of the most important things here is we want to incorporate some innovative play structures, move away from the post and platform playgrounds that you see a lot today. Also within these playgrounds, you see a lot of natural shade elements, large palm trees and native ficus trees, which help shade these areas and create a very enjoyable space for children and adults. We know that swings are very important at this park. There's to date about eight swings there now today. So we definitely want to incorporate those plus more in the new renovation. Swings do take up a lot of space, a lot of usable space in a playground, about 30 linear feet within that safety zone. So we think it would be cool to incorporate some Interactive swings, like you see in the center there with the hammock swings where you can have multiple kids on one swing, or you can swing with your children. Adults can use them. So more basket-type innovative swings would be great to see here. Definitely keeping the typical bucket seats and the ADA-accessible swings are going to be important as well. Another thing that we heard is shade is very important. And we know that the shade fabrics are not ideal because they do have to come down in storms. They get torn easily. So incorporating some more permanent shade structures like you see in the top right corner is desired. And I also wanted to point out some additional seating like the bench swings that you see on the bottom right hand corner there. To refresh everybody's memory, back in April, this is the concept that was presented. Some of the major concerns we heard were the building placement not being such a prominent location on Collins Avenue. So I'll show you how we address that in a minute. Another concern we heard was the picnic area to the north, making sure that we use as much space for play as we can and not creating such a large picnic seating area was desired. We also heard that the exercise equipment, which was on number 11 here, it was desired to be closer to the meditation garden. Showing more natural shade and permanent shade structures was also important. So with this new design here, you can see the building placement in number five. It moved further west, a little bit closer to where the existing building is. So that will be good for future utilities. They'll be in that area, which will help with cost. The parking lot stayed the same. It was 13 spaces existing. We're adding 10 to that to create more parking there. And the building was pushed a little bit away from the parking lot to create a buffer between the parking lot zone and the fenced-in area around the playground. And coming off of the building structure, it's not just a restroom facility, which we know is needed. They are increasing the number of restrooms there, but creating an architectural shade element over this restroom to create a plaza space where you can have movable furniture that interconnects with the playground. is what we're showing there on number six, which leads to an iconic specimen tree with integral bench seating around it in number seven there. So you can interact with the plaza space around the building, but you can also have seating all throughout the playground there. And to play off of that oval and architectural elements with the shade around the building, you can see we're incorporating some more permanent shade structures with number 12 there, which was similar to the photo I showed earlier. Keeping that oval design and having a fun bright yellow color to play off of the Sunny Isles logo is the desire there. And in this space, we are incorporating additional landscape areas that will have bench seating under that so the parents can view the playground from all angles. And there'll be space for trees and palms as well to help with shade. We also moved the exercise equipment up closer to the meditation garden, which is shown at number 13. There'll be a landscape buffer and those misters at number 15, separating those two spaces. the open lawn remained and then we revised the Plaza at the southeast corner as you enter the playground. Creating a nice area there to create signage or some seating as a stopping point and then a gateway entry into the park at number 12 with another shade structure there to just tie it all in together. And as you enter along that promenade there, some bench seating to the left and then the playgrounds over on the right hand side. It's also hard to tell from this image because there's a lot of landscape there. But the desire along Collin, we were seeing number 23, is to create a three to four foot landscape berm with various heights to help with that wind tunnel so the wind goes up and over instead of through the playground there. I think that's all the changes that we mentioned. If you are entering the playground for the meditation garden only, there's a couple of ways to get there. If you're coming by foot, the north entrance at number two, that gate will lead you at a more direct path to the meditation garden without having to go through the playground. You can easily get to the exercise equipment there as well. Or through the parking lot on the south, we created another gate at the west side, on the west side of the building, where you can directly access that area from the parking lot.

May I ask a quick question? Of course. Is that number 13, the meditation garden?

The meditation garden is number 18, actually, the existing meditation garden, all the way to the left. Can I point with this?

The pointer doesn't work very well, but you see the tent on the top that the meditation garden is that whole area in the left above the table.

Number 13 is the workout. I had zoomed in too much.

Yes, it's a little bit off the page.

Yep. 13 is the exercise. That's correct.

Here for any other questions that we need or if I just want to point to note the Mister's remained there was some talk about more water play but as we discussed before we're trying to not have every part be the same and to make a meaningful water play area. We would be looking to do that at heritage Park so that is not incorporated in this plan.

Anyone else have questions.

I have a question. Hold on.

So that oval in the middle, I see that there's shrubbery. So my question is, is all the shading going to come from trees or are we going to have some canopies somewhere?

A lot of it will be shade. And then where you see number 12, those like yellowed

Those are canopies? Those are canopies, yes. OK. I see. Oh, shade structures. Yeah, I see that. 12, 12. OK. Got it. All right. Thank you.

You're welcome. The size of those canopies, is it to size what we're seeing here? How big are they going to be? The yellow canopy?

This is to scale. To scale, it is? Yeah, it is to scale, yes.

All right, so I have a question regarding the current canopy, or what are we doing with that? Are we going to be replacing it, or are we waiting for this?

No, no, no, we're replacing it. It's been on order. We had to have a home new one because it ripped and it is I believe I saw an email yesterday that it's 2 weeks out and installations being scheduled. And once it's installed or we're going to have to take it down because of hurricane season not we don't take it down for hurricane season, but if we know that a storm is coming then we do remove it to protect it.

I just want to get clarification for anyone listening because they know that's been a hot topic okay. Yeah, I did this is this is. Great. I mean, I did want to see water, but I think that as it gets hotter, you just want to see water everywhere. Water and shade. Thank you. Yes.

Oh, I do have one question. Go ahead. So do we have any option for having any water sprays?

Yeah, that's what we're showing in 15 there. And there's an image on the character imagery, something similar to that. So those are quite helpful. Yeah, something that will be architectural and sculptural. So it'll be aesthetically pleasing to the eye, even without the water being on.

Sarah, can you just go back a couple pages?

I was talking about cooling spray, you know Mister Mister yes, that's what you have Mister yes, yet a number 15.

Yeah, I have a question so with the exercise area are we still looking to keep the the bars and the similar set up we have now you know with the that green bars and.

So the discussion was to eliminate the stations that are throughout and to keep the typical workout equipment in the workout area.

OK, perfect.

Anyone else? And the pull-up bars are staying? Yes. Well, they're not staying. We'll have new ones, but yes. There will be pull-up bars.

If that's what's important. And what's the timeline, favorite question?

So if we have approval today Then they will go back and work on construction drawing, you know the next phase of drawing so that we can go out to bid Okay bidding is gonna take I don't know how long it'll take you to get Plans good enough to bid but the bidding process alone is gonna take a good three months eight to twelve weeks Okay, you can't speed that up anymore I'm assuming I Yeah, they're complex plans. No, I know.

I think that everyone on this commission is very eager to get this done as soon as possible, because it's a long time coming.

So we will make it a priority. Yes.

I'd rather see the sports park done.

All right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Sarah.

I just have to return the phone.

All right, next item.

The next item on the agenda is 4B, the use of AI policy discussion.

OK, this is my item. And because this is somewhat complicated, I'm going to read the memo on the record. And then hopefully we could have Nice discussion on this. All right. So this item is intended to give the city manager and the city attorney direction to draft proposed policies and procedures as well as a code amendment in Chapter 74 for disclosing the use of AI by city staff, elected officials, and persons presenting and submitting information to the city commission, particularly but not limited to quasi-judicial proceedings. The use of AI has become common and prevalent in all levels of society, including entertainment, social media, academia, business law, and government. Apart from its benefits, the increasing use of AI raises important concerns regarding potential misinformation and disinformation, reliability, data privacy, transparency, plagiarism, intellectual property, and proper identification of source materials and data. These concerns are equally critical in local government, especially when decisions are made administratively by the city manager and staff, and legislatively and quasi-judicially by the city commission. Decisions which directly impact the residents of the city of Sunny Isles Beach. Notably, the Florida League of Cities has created an AI content hub and resources, which is designed specifically for Florida cities, municipal leaders with practical guidance, real-world examples, and resources that help them understand AI, evaluate its risks and opportunities, and adopt tools responsibly, all while aligning with Florida's unique legal and operational considerations. The need for policies and regulations require the disclosure of the use of AI to mitigate risks, ensure accuracy, transparency, and prevent decisions based upon inaccurate, unreliable, or false information and facts. For example, in addition to strict policies instituted in most levels of academia, in May of 2026, the Florida Supreme Court issued modifications to its Rules of Judicial Administration. In re-amendments to Florida Rule of General Practice and Judicial Administration 2.515, regarding AI disclosure requirements. Although the foregoing preempts similar local administrative orders in lower courts, it is notable that prior to the Supreme Court's action, the Chief Judge of the 11th Judicial Circuit in and for Miami-Dade County issued an administrative order regarding an entitled use of artificial intelligence in court filings by attorneys and self-represented litigants disclosure of use of generative artificial intelligence, and the Chief Judge of the Seventh Judicial Circuit in Fort Broward County symptomatologically issued an administrative order regarding an entitled use of AI in court filings. These efforts by the judiciary demonstrate the increasing need for disclosure of the use of AI in materials and work products submitted for any consideration. Several jurisdictions such as Miami-Dade County, San Jose, California, Seattle, Washington, Richmond, Virginia, and the state of Pennsylvania have all instituted policies regarding the use of AI. The city of Sunny Isles Beach is no exception to the risks of AI and should at the very least institute policies and procedures requiring the disclosure of the use of AI by city staff, elected officials, and any person or entity submitting or presenting information, evidence, or any documentation or data to the city commission, particularly but not limited to its quasi-judicial capacity. Such AI policy should also be recommended to the city manager for inclusion in his internal policies and procedure applicable to city staff. I think that we all can agree that AI is here to stay, and anyone who believes that the staff in city government or anywhere else is not using AI is just ignoring the facts. Everyone is using it, not just kids to cheat, but everyone. So I think that this came up, I think, last year. I believe Commissioner Stuison and I had this first discussion, but that was for something different. The reality is that we need to have an honest conversation about this because if we are, especially for quasi-judicial, but I think it's for everything, are using AI, us personally or someone presenting in front of us using AI, it is imperative that we ask them to disclose that because we need to make sure that the sources for that are made public. known. So because as, as we know, AI can look very real. That's the whole point. And it's, you know, it's a pretty serious thing. So I'd like to hear from my colleagues, what you all think about it, what your thoughts are on the policy, and just your general feedback. So, so go ahead.

So the is the idea to try to limit it within the city's use

I think you can't limit it. I think that that would be, you can't stop people from using it. We know that people are using it to get their work done faster. It's more about having a policy. So the city manager would set a policy for staff. And then, you know, that policy would be just the same as any, you know, any policy that's in place, you're expected to follow it. So that means limiting it for specific use. Obviously, that'll be part of it. But it's more so for us here on the dais so that we know when someone's presenting something using AI. So if someone can come in front of us and they could lie, obviously, but the idea is they need to disclose if they used AI for any of their presentation. And then if we personally use it for anything that we create, we should disclose that as well so that people can check the source.

Okay, so I know I was personally attacked using AI during my last election.

No, this isn't for elections.

Well, if there's any way for the city, as long as we're making some type of policy, I mean, still, our candidates are Sunny Isles candidates. They should be able to come under some policy that we have regarding the use of AI, one candidate against another. Because no matter what, the public, the voters, the residents are deceived. And as long as we're making some policy, we should try to protect the residents against misinformation.

Yeah, I would. I personally would agree with that. But I don't think we have. And I see the city attorney already moving his microphone. I don't believe we have the purview to do that.

You don't have jurisdiction over. Even though they run for office for the city, we have no jurisdiction over the elections or campaigning or anything like that. That deals strictly with the Florida Commission on the use of AI within the city limits. No, we have no jurisdiction over that. It's a First Amendment issue, as the mayor indicated. You can't prevent someone from using AI. So a lot of the policies that have come out on the judicial side and for attorneys, there's no prohibition for use. It's disclosure. Disclosure is important because you just need to be aware of what's before you. Just like any other paper you would create, you need to source this correctly. There's plagiarism issues. There's reliability issues. I know as us for attorneys, you as my client, if I use AI, I have to disclose it to you under the Florida Bar Rules and now under the court rules as well. And it's also the policies typically, you know, you're responsible. If you're going to use AI, you're responsible for what it says. So if you're going to tell your superior that A, B, and C because, you know, you got that from AI – If it's wrong, it's on you. So it's just establishing those types of policies so your staff, others can know. And as you indicated with quasi-judicial, you're making some pretty important decisions, especially in quasi-judicial, whether it deals with development or anything else. So the information you're provided with, just as if you have an expert that comes to present to you something regarding a development, whether it be a traffic engineer or anyone else, those folks have to be qualified. So you have a right to qualify those people in saying, OK, I take your opinion with a grain of salt. I need to know what your qualifications are. Same thing with AI. If you have a resident or someone coming to you with a presentation that has information in it that they did not generate, you have the right to qualify the fact that, OK, this is from AI, so we need to double check and make sure that those sources are correct and the information is correct. I don't recall what it's actually called, but there is a type of AI. I don't know if it's adaptive or where it learns from its users. So it could be learning wrong information as well. So that's why I know from the school system They've been doing it probably before anyone else because of the students. And then certainly the judiciary now stepped up. The policies you referenced just came out in May of this year. And then the Supreme Court stepped in last to try to make it a little bit more consistent throughout all the various circuits throughout the state. But it's not a prohibition of AI. It's a disclosure mostly.

So if someone was to come and present something that was created by AI and did not disclose it and we voted on it based on that assumption that this was expert information from that person, that doesn't protect us?

No, you do have already a provision in your code, actually in your charter, I believe, where if not on AI or inaccuracy, but if someone comes right now, if someone comes to you and gives you patently false information and says this is true and it's patently false, it makes the item you voted on voidable under your code and charter. So similarly with AI, if someone, not just because they didn't disclose it was AI, but if it turns out that it's false, the AI disclosure is kind of like a little red flag for you to just pay particularly close attention to the information. It's an added tool to ensure accuracy, just like an expert who's qualified can come up to the dais and patently lie. There's no protection against that until you find out it is, and then you have the potential recourse of making something voidable. It would be the same with AI.

Yeah, so I mean, there's no federal laws regulating AI right now. I wonder if the state of Florida has any laws that regulate AI.

A lot of them are administrative policies. So like, for example, the state of Pennsylvania Typically, these types of things come out as administrative policies. And usually, at least in Florida, I believe it's per agency. Typically, the various agencies will develop their own policies. There's no statute necessarily on it. I don't know that they're necessarily codified in any state because it is a huge First Amendment issue. But typically, it's through administrative policies by various agencies. He just says, and there may be, for example, the State Department may have a policy on the use of AI. Same with the Defense Department. Each agency probably has some form of administrative, not necessarily law, but some form of administrative regulations on at least disclosure.

Because my question is, OK, so are we looking to regulate the use of AI when you're generating content, whether it's a report, whether it's pictures, video, et cetera? Because right now, we use AI for, like, search is not done through Google anymore. It's really done through AI. So are we going to have to disclose whether we take a whole bunch of information and format it through AI instead of going to Excel? You could just use ChatGPT or Cloud format something.

Depending on how the policy will come out. Or summarize a bill, you know, so. Right, you're not regulating the use of it, you're just requiring the disclosure of it. To disclose it, yeah. So if you are going to prepare a final, again, depending on what policies you all decide to come up with, but generally if you are going to compile information and put it in an engine, for the lack of a better term, a chat GPT or whatever else, to compile it for you or even write it for you, there should be some disclosure that there was a use of AI. So again, just so you know, if someone hands something to you, they use the AI, OK, you may want to double check it a little bit more. And that's up to you. But at least it gives you that opportunity to add that extra layer And I'll give a quick war story, but one of the reasons why the judiciary has stepped up, there was a case in, I want to say Pennsylvania, but I won't name the firm because it's a national firm and I don't want to disparage anyone, but an attorney, a young attorney, decided to use AI in the briefs and said, I need cases that say this, this, and that. Lo and behold, there were cases that said this and that, and when it got to the court, the opposing counsel said, by the way, that's great, those cases don't exist. They had citations. They had exactly what needed to be said, but they weren't real. So obviously, that attorney probably lost his job. But again, I'm not saying that sometimes it's completely unintentional, but it adds that little asterisk to just maybe double check.

I guess my point is that whether we are aware of it or not, we're using AI for almost everything right now. Because you go on Google and it's really like Gemini that's giving you kind of like a summary of whatever search you're looking for. Like you don't click on links anymore. You just look at the summary that... you know, this Google Gemini is giving you and.

Right, but if you rely on that and you're gonna present it to a governing body that's gonna make a decision on a $100 million building.

So we should disclose everything, basically everything. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I think like if you were to take, let's say, you know, bills, certain bills that are like 200 pages. Yeah, and you summarize it. And you were gonna use it to summarize it to have a discussion,

I don't know if you need to tell everyone, but if you wrote something that then you shared with the commission, I think that's- Yeah, that's my question, whether you're generating something or you're using it to summarize or to format information, whatever.

Right, I think that there's a difference.

And I'll give an example here. I won't name anybody because there was absolutely nothing done wrong. But someone wrote a letter here that we had advised should be written. And it was written. And it was so well written, I had to compliment the employee and say, that is really well written. Good job. And to his or her credit, they said, I used ChatGPT. Which is great. That's fine. It was an excellent letter. It said exactly what it needed to be said. There was nothing wrong with it. And it actually generated the response, exactly the response we wanted. But it was good to know because had it been him or her been my employee and keeps giving me that word product, I'm like, hey, this person deserves a raise. They're really good at writing. But it's good to know that there was assistance there. And also, from a supervisory level, also gives you the idea of, OK, it sounds great, but if it was used, if AI was used, maybe we need to double check it before we send it to another agency or something like that.

I would add, you guys know I'm like the least techie person that you'll meet ever. So I'm very suspicious of these things. But like you say, it's... Inevitable, right? Even when I think, oh, I'm the one using Google, it's already in there. But I have tested it. So even if you're just using it for summary, you have to be careful. I have asked it to summarize cases that I've used, that I know what they say. And I'm like, OK, give me a summary of it. I give it a prompt. Half, literally, it was like maybe six cases. three were correct and three were wrong. So even at the summary level. So I would be very careful. So maybe it hasn't adapted yet. Okay, well, if I was relying on it that day, I would have been in trouble, right? And there's also, I've seen footage of, A young lawyer who did exactly that put in the submitted fake cases, which stellar argument, all these amazing cases that don't exist. But then the opposing counsel didn't catch it. Maybe he ran it through AI, and yeah, it does say that. Who knows? Opposing counsel didn't catch it. So then both got reprimanded, because it would have been, if you see a case where you're like, oh my god, this guy, how did I not know that? You go and you look it up, and then when you don't find it, you challenge them, right? So part of it, I think, it's we It's generational. If you're a younger lawyer, a younger person, and you were born with the internet, I was not. So I'm somebody who had to adapt into it. They just view things differently. So I think it goes to our training as well, as we're developing the workforce, that they understand whatever the expectations are. I mean, I don't know. Because I'm not comfortable with this subject, so I won't opine too much other than we should have policies, but I don't want to be the one directing because I don't know enough.

Yeah, I don't know if necessarily we need to direct it, because I think that would probably be best done by the city attorney and the manager. For me, the discussion was really about, do we support having an official policy?

And of course, we would propose something and give it to you and to Commissioner Lama's concern and his point. You can still use AI, as I call it, a gut check. I've done my research. I've done my opinion. Let's see what AI has to say about it, because I know whoever I'm going to give it to is going to look at AI. So there are times you're not actually using AI, but you may use it as a gut check. Or you may use that as a starting point, where is this an issue in Florida? And it says it, and then you do your own research. It's a little bit different, so there could be nuances. in how we write the policy. So certainly, just because you Google something that gave you a starting point to start looking into something doesn't mean it has to be disclosed. It's just if the final product, obviously, is a product of AI, then maybe at that point, that's something that needs to be disclosed. But those are things that we can, there's a lot of model policies out there that we can kind of work from. And I guess we can put some together and see what you all think.

Commissioner Stuyvesant, do you have anything? So we are going to be defining what is AI. So Siri is AI. Google is AI. So we are going to be the body that is going to define what is AI.

No, not necessarily, because that's pretty much defined out there.

So my question would be, if we cannot define what is AI, how can we enforce the use of something that we cannot describe?

I think generally AI has been pretty well defined out in.

So to be enforceable, it has to be able to have a description. So for example, if you are driving and you are 70 miles per hour, then if it's at 30 miles per hour zone, you are breaking the law because it's 70 and it's defined at 30. So again, How can we enforce something that we cannot define? And if we can define, I want to know right now what is that definition that we are going to be using. So if somebody writes something with Google, Copilot or whatever it is for that matter. Even my mouse is supposed to have some AI on it. So every time I'm using my mouse, is it going to be, I have to disclose? I don't understand the need. I don't understand what is it that the problem that we are trying to solve. And that question for you, that is, what is exactly the, what are we trying to fix?

Sure. I think that that's a great question because it's a question I often ask when we put policy in. And to the city attorney's point, the definition of AI is pretty established anywhere you look. And I would defer to the city manager and the attorney to really put that in writing. However, the problem that we're trying to fix is and the city attorney made a comment about it as well. If we have staff that are using AI to produce work product and writing letters or creating reports, and just from one example, and they're really doing a really great job, and their supervisors are noticing and thinking, this person really deserves a raise. They're getting this done faster than the person right next to them. How's that possible? Well, if they've been using AI, that's not very fair. They should be disclosing, hey, I'm using AI to complete these reports. That used to take two hours. Now it's going to take me five minutes. That's one example. Another example is if we have somebody that's presenting in front of us. And this is not specifically regarding us. This is a policy overall. If we have someone that's presenting in front of us and they're claiming that they have expert information on something to do with a site plan or with a park like just now we had a presentation about what the park would look like if that person was using AI to generate those images I would like to know about it in advance because I'd like to know is it the design that they created or subsidence

It could be anything.

I can go on and on and on. Any program. I'm not talking about using a mouse. And I actually don't even know what AI a mouse has, but that's not the point. To Commissioner Lama's point, if you're using it for Gemini, a Google search, or whatever, you have to use your judgment. This isn't going to be like everything that you do. You're going to have to sit down with a pencil and mark every single search that you ever have. But if you're creating, and when I say you, I don't mean use, I mean all, if something is being created and presented as a document that we would be potentially using to vote on, we should all know in advance that AI was used.

So to my point, so it has to be defined. So it has to be defined to be enforceable. Plus, common sense is not a legal standard that you can enforce either. So common sense, I wish we could teach that. And it was used for anything and everything. So to my point, here we are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist, in my opinion. So if somebody went to college and learned how to use certain tools better than others, well, you know, that's ingenuity. So that means thank you for capitalism. So I would love to see first how is it that we're going to define AI. So when there is a new program, we have to redefine. Because like I said, Siri is AI. So you're asking Siri, you're telling Siri, please take these notes right now for tonight's commission's meeting. Is that the use on AI? When she's taking my notes, if I ask her, which by the way, I don't use Siri, but that's just an example. So what is it that we're trying to fix here? like you said at the very beginning, AI is here to stay. And that we defining AI, I think is a little bit silly, because by the next month, it's going to completely have changed. because the technology is changing per day. So we're going to put what a list, or if you use ChatGPT or Gemini or Copilot, then you have to disclose. And then what about the other five software that are being created right now? So like I said, and we have a few lawyers here today. So how can you enforce something that you cannot define? So if the grandma comes here to say something or to bring something, what is going to be the penalty if she didn't say that she used Google or she used ChatGPT to help her prepare her speech. I would like to know. So if we have here a grandma talking about something she wasn't feeling so comfortable doing on her own and she used ChatGPT, what would be then the penalty for the grandma when she doesn't say, oh, my speech was created by ChatGPT?

No, I don't think that's not the purpose here. The purpose is not for public speakers that come. But that's what it says here. No, this is not for public speakers. This is for people that are presenting for something that we would potentially vote on. We don't know what we're going to be voting on. If someone comes here and wants to speak on an item, they are free to speak on that item. And the penalties would be defined by the manager, and it would be specific to the staff. We're not going to sit here and penalize members of the public that come here and want to discuss something.

Well, again, it's not a law. It is an administrative policy. There wouldn't necessarily be. You could have, as your current code already has, if somebody comes up here and says something that's false, it makes that item voidable. It would be similar where they fail to disclose it, they should have disclosed it, but if the information is correct, it's fine.

But why all the time?

So it should be for the staff, consultants, and probably vendors exclusive. It could not be for the people. It could not be for us, because we are not considered staff anyway. So again. No, I think it should include us absolutely. Well, you know what? Like you said, then you have to use your common sense. Because in the last commission meeting or the one previous, I did and I say, I took a picture of the fountain. It took me five minutes with AI to make certain renderings that we were given a contract. We actually, you guys voted for it, to give $70,000 contract to somebody to do what I did for free in five minutes. So I say it, I use AI to do those renderings in five minutes. So I think if we are sitting down here is for a reason. And if we want to disclose what and how we are using AI, then we can do it. So if you do a research for an item where you want to say, oh, I went to chat GPT and I asked about how do you define AI? I don't see the point of this. I don't know what is it that we're trying to accomplish. Like I said, and nobody has given me the answer just yet, I want to know what is it that is going to be enforceable here, what is the definition of AI, and what's going to be the penalty. So that staffer that is using ChatGPT and didn't disclose, and the other one saw him doing it, and then he's going to tell the manager, is he going to get fired because he was using ChatGPT and he was making very good memos? I totally am lost on what is the intention and what is it that we are trying to fix here. I mean, I don't even want to ask Mauricio Hughes, AI, to do the agenda. Don't answer. So I don't get it.

So hold on one second, I just want to respond to that. That is a great example that if the city clerk or the city manager or the city attorney was using AI to create a product, I would absolutely want to know in advance, I would want them to disclose that. Go ahead, Commissioner. Joseph.

So I know universities today, they require full disclosure of any use of generative AI So I think we should be able to do the same. How and when? For a rendering, yes. Let's say that you have someone that is next to a building where we currently have a developer building. And they come in with some report regarding subsidence. And it turns out that the report itself is AI generated. the person presenting to us, and the reason for his presenting to us is to have us render some decision on something at some point, they should have to disclose the product of their report. Because we're looking to make our decisions based on facts, not something that's generated that may not actually be true.

Or can be true. We don't know. The point is exactly what the city attorney said. True to some degree. To just basically say, OK, maybe we need to take another look at it just to be certain, just like vice mayor said, doing a check to see is this real or not real. It's just as quick to check it.

We want to base our decisions on fiction.

Right, of course not. And also, we are supposed to be reading the agenda and reading the items. And we can verify whatever it is that we want to verify. So again, I continue not seeing the issue. I continue not seeing the problem. I think it's very arrogant of us to believe that we are going to be the body that is going to define what is AI and to penalize people for using it. Plus, you know that AI also lies. So something that you can do with AI, you might ask AI, if it was done with AI, it might say, no, it wasn't. So what is it that we are going to be hearing right now? Monitoring the use of AI by the people. Like I said, I don't see the problem. We all know how to read. And we can all detect things that may or may not make sense. And we can all have the opportunity to do our own research. So again, good luck trying to define and enforce the use of AI.

OK. Enforcement is a whole other thing.

Wait, let me.

I heard a couple of things that I don't think that I don't know if it's correct or not. Are we looking to penalize? Is that the intent of this? It's just disclosure. So if somebody, if person A used AI and says I used AI for this presentation and there is some wrong information there, would that person get penalized or is there a possibility that they could get penalized? We cannot penalize them, right?

No, it's not a penalty. It's just a disclosure. It's not a penalty. It's just a... The same thing that's currently in your code. If someone comes up here for a variance, and they outright lie to you, and after the fact you find out they absolutely lied, that item becomes voidable. You can come back under your code and you can void it out. Correct. This is just a flag that's to say that it's like me. If you ask me my opinion now, it's like, hold on. That's my opinion. No, it's not. It's ChatGPT's opinion. You're paying me for my opinion or you're paying ChatGPT? Because Google can do that for you all day long. It's probably inaccurate, but it can do that for you all day long. It's just something for you to know. And when you're making your decision, just like you look at the credibility When you act in a quasi-judicial capacity, and you as an attorney know, whether you go to trial or anything else, you always have, as a juror or as an attorney, you have to consider the credibility of the witness, right? And this is just a tool in being able to judge the credibility of the information that's being given to you. It's to help you. It's not to penalize anyone. It's just a matter of disclosure so you know the full story before you make a decision. That's all.

Yeah, that's fine. I mean, what I'm having, well, what I'm trying to understand is, for instance, you know, if you write an email, you write it yourself, and you drop it into ChatGPT and say, hey, make this, improve this email. Would you have to disclose that? No, you're not submitting it to anyone.

As upon the variations.

No, no, no, no.

I'm saying...

Okay, I understand. I'm saying that, let's say, for instance, Mauricio sends me an email, right? He wrote it himself, but then he made it better with ChatGPT. Does he have to disclose that?

It depends upon the content. It's not in the policy. You're not making a decision on that. You're not, again, I'll use the Miami Beach.

So it's only for information you make a decision on. Like a presentation?

Whatever policies you want to make.

It warrants a lot more discussion because AI could be used for so many things.

It's just like if you go to the doctor and your doctor uses AI to diagnose you. Do you want to know that?

Yeah, of course. But it's good and bad. I think we need to kind of have very defined parameters or situations, let's say, on the use of AI. Because it could get very convoluted.

Let me ask you a question right now to the city manager. If staff right now uses AI, or rather when they use AI, there is no disclosure policy, correct?

Correct.

Right. So you have no way of knowing. And as far as they're concerned, they don't have to tell you.

Correct.

Right. So this is to that point where if staff, because we're for some reason so focused on us. This isn't necessarily about us. It should include us because I think that's just a good process.

When you say us, are you referring just to the commission? To the commission. Or are you referring the city?

But it's really about the staff and about anyone that presents to us and vendors or applicants.

Mm-hmm.

But it's the sort of thing, if we expect others to do it, we should follow that same suit. There's nothing wrong with using AI. It's part of doing business. But it's about disclosing it. So if you feel like you wrote an email and you asked whatever AI it is, and to Commissioner Stubison's point, it could be a million other things tomorrow, the definition is artificial intelligence, meaning you didn't write that. If you felt like putting a disclosure because you wanted to be super honest and say, I used AI, sure. But right now, grammarly, spell check, like that, no, I don't think so. But like I said, I would like to see the manager or the city attorney look at what other municipalities are doing to see if that's something that we could incorporate into our policy, same as any sexual harassment policy, any of those things, in order to to make it as clear as possible so that if someone's getting hired, they know what the expectation is.

I mean, listen, I understand the whole point. And to be quite honest, I think that the more tools that staff uses, AI, and there's a lot of different AIs that are really, really good, I think they'll just make their I mean, it could improve their quality and make them a lot more efficient. I think that what everybody needs to be aware of is that AI does hallucinate and make up stuff. And we, all of us that use AI, we need to be extra careful in double and triple checking before we send something or before we present something. So I would certainly not want whatever we put in paper to discourage or make staff afraid of using AI, because I would like them to use AI, because there's some tools that just spit out information or help you format whatever presentation you need in five minutes. So I think we need to think about it. I do want the disclosure to happen, but we need to be very careful on how we structure it, I say.

So I just have one more thing to say.

I think it needs to just be handled at the staff level. I worry that this becomes us. micromanaging. I think it's worth the discussion. It's an interesting topic. But I think we need to let them figure it out.

I agree. I agree. Mr. Joseph?

Yes. So I know there is one checker that universities are using. It's called Turnitin. And for people like the city manager who receives or could be receiving information from staff, that might be one service to use for yourself to check on facts. It's called Turnitin, which is one of the better ones to use regarding checking on AI.

And to your point also, to Alex's point, if you are writing an email, And you have Grammarly. Grammarly is AI. And it's going to tell you if you make any mistakes, if they are going to give you suggestions to make the flow even better. Then the other comment that I have is that what if you use it and there is no disclosure? So why are we doing this? Like you said, there's going to be no penalty. So if there is no penalty for not disclosing, so why would you disclose anyway? So why are we going to be making a whole paper and make the city attorney work on this when, at the end of the day, they said that there is going to be no penalty if you don't disclose? So what is the policy for?

Well, I think, may I?

Yes, go ahead.

So I think that the whole intent of this, and I see the point. I mean, I'm not trying to discourage the use of AI. Actually, I want people to use AI and become very proficient in it. I think the whole point of this, or maybe it should be something else, is to make sure that people that use AI double check the work, and make sure that it is accurate. At the end of the day, it's all about accuracy. So there should be some sort of something conscious about us where we say, OK, we're using AI. This is great. It makes my job a lot easier. It makes me more efficient, et cetera. And it makes it better. Obviously, there is a dark side to this, or there's mistakes that AI... That's not my question.

My question is, what if we write this policy, we approve it, and it's only about disclosing? What if you don't disclose? Then you're breaking the policy. So there's no penalty? So what would you have in the first place?

I think it's more for awareness.

I think that we let the city manager and the city attorney figure that part out because, again, this is geared towards more staff and vendors and to put them on notice that this is the expectation. So, okay.

And just, again, my only interest in it is on the liability side, right? So... The only thing I would add is it's good to have a policy in place, because for example, and I'm not suggesting anybody is doing this, but you don't want your building official, you don't want your city engineers, you don't want your professional people using AI to do their job, right? Because you don't want, and granted, Me, for example, I can't use AI unless I disclose it to you. I'm regulated by the Florida Bar, the Florida Supreme Court. I'm sure some engineers are also subject to discipline if they do that. But to have a stated policy helps. Because if you have someone, city engineer, or somebody that makes a decision that says, this is my work product, this is what we're going to do for this particular thing, and the whole thing falls apart and somebody gets hurt. And then it comes out. It helps that you have a policy saying you're not supposed to do that But again, it doesn't have to be it's just a liability standpoint.

That's just it's good to have but yeah, but you just say subject to discipline So to my point is that so we're gonna have a policy saying you you need to disclose but if you turn and

It's not always comes down to, so for example, I'll switch back to Title VII. So your defense, if you are accused of, sexual harassment when your employees are, right? Your defense as an entity, as a municipal corporation, is that you have a policy in place that addresses it. If you don't, you don't have a defense. You're almost automatically liable because you are allowing an environment that permits that. To have a policy in place helps. So if you have something that happens with regards to excessive use of AI in a professional setting when something bad happens, It's an added defense for you to come in and say, we have a policy against that. This person violated the policy. But it's worse not having the policy, because then it's like, you don't even have a policy. You tacitly allow your people to do this. And it's the same thing. It's not about penalizing. It's about having a policy in place that should be followed.

OK. I think we have consensus. So next item.

I mean, do we have consensus?

I believe so. Can we vocalize that consensus?

You can't vote, but you're not voting.

I know. I'm not so sure we have consensus.

I don't know.

Do we want a policy for AI? No. For the staff, for our vendors, for ourselves? Well, I think I'd like to see it.

I'd like to see what staff could come up with, take a look at it. Yes.

I think the city attorney has voiced it's something he would favor. I just think it needs to stay over there. I agree it needs to stay over there. I don't think we need to be. But I think we need to have a policy. I think if they decide they want a policy, they should have a policy. I agree.

I think that we do need a policy that items that are presented to us or in any decision-making item, regardless of who it is on the city level, should be fact-checked through appropriate means, the best available at that moment. And we know things are ever changing. Just for embarrassment purposes, for waste of funds for anything, but it does help to know that the person presenting a paper or anything you might depend upon, they should be able, they should be telling us that they did use AI because they may not be fact checking it themselves.

A policy that cannot be enforced, it's just paper. So if we're going to be creating a policy but it's not enforceable, and even if you don't do what the policies say, meaning you don't do the disclaimer and there is no consequences, then why are we even spending the time doing this?

Because this discussion itself is important even regarding just awareness.

I agree. And just say that a policy cannot be enforced. It's just paper, which is true.

And we could add a component for enforcement for staff if that's something that you want. Because certainly if staff member uses AI and something fails or something is so erroneous that it would be a violation of policy because they submitted work product that didn't check and so on and so forth. So there could be a component in there too.

Yeah, I would leave it up to the manager if that would be part of it. OK.

Well, I mean, it goes back to there's an employee that's not doing their job correctly. I think it goes is the same thing, same concept, right? If they're speeding out information or reports that are erroneous and.

Yeah, you just don't have a policy that says that now.

We just don't have a policy that says that. Okay. All right. Yeah, I mean, I do agree with the policy. It's just that we need to be careful on how we write it, present it, because obviously you do want staff to make use of tools that will enhance their jobs, that will make their efficiency better.

And please add in any policy a specific description of what is it that we consider AI.

No, but I mean, I think we know what AI is.

Well, it has to be described. A policy has for you to, for proper notice to your employees or whoever else, you have to define it. So it would have to have a definition of what you're prohibiting or what you're regulating.

All right. Okay.

I think we're ready to move on.

Okay, next item is 4C, discussion regarding additional, excuse me, regarding the Save Our Homes from Excessive Property Tax Bill.

Okay, I smear commissioner Lama your discussion item going first to go. Microphones on.

Okay, so I was going to talk about this just as a legislative update and I know we've we've had memos etc. And and then commissioner Lama. came up with a more specific topic. So that's why we're together. But I think I provided these pie charts just for demonstrative purposes. And so this is from the property appraiser's website. Anybody can go in there. And you type in your address. Or if you can get your folio number, you put it in. And it'll give you exactly how your tax dollars are distributed.

Is that something, Deputy Manager, we can kind of push out? Because I think that's really useful information. Sure. And it's not in any way pushing people for or against anything, correct? If we let people know just how their tax dollars are being spent?

Right. It just depends how you do it. I don't know how we would.

All right. I just think this is such a good chart.

This is public.

Just to let them know how to look up. How to look it up. That's it.

Yeah. It's a website. And you can go into the property appraisers. Or through AI. You can Google. How do I see my tax pie chart in Miami-Dade County? And it'll take you there. So I'm just going to show the one that's up there. I'm only going to focus on one because I just wanted everyone to see an example. So the big green thing, that's the school board in this particular one. And I like this one because this particular property only pays about $1,000. OK, so you can understand that this green part is like $500. And the school board generally is, because pie charts differ, and it depends on what home exemptions apply, how long you've owned. There's different, I'm not an expert, I should say that. But pie charts are different. That's why I gave you guys a sample. But I only wanted to show this one. So the green part is usually between 40% to 50%. That's the school board. And at some point, the city attorney is going to have to chime in and help clarify, because I'm certainly not an expert. I don't think anybody's an expert. We're all trying to figure out what this new law means. It's not what people get excited, well, I don't have to pay property taxes. You do. And you will. And the school board piece, in this case, it's 50%. In anybody's pie chart, it's going to be anywhere between 40% and 50%. That's not going anywhere. The municipal piece is the little blue part. No, I'm so sorry. It says Sunny Isles Beach. It's like the maroon one. This one is 8.46%. Generally, it's about 10%. And that's when people say, oh, you know, I pay my taxes to the city. You do, but it's not what you think, right? It's really usually only around 10% of your tax bill is what comes to us. The other big chunk is the county. So the school board, people think, oh, it's a county school. They think it's the same thing. It's not. The school is its own district. It collects its own taxes, the school board. And then the county gets the other big chunk. This one is 38%. On average, it's between 40% and 45%. So I still don't know what part of the county slice of the pie gets affected or how. And I don't think really there's, I haven't spoken to anybody who can explain it to me properly. Then you have the Children's Trust and the water management, which is a tiny, tiny green. And here it's 1.14. On average, it's about one and a quarter. So that part. So most of this is still going to... I just don't want people to think that what's being proposed is an elimination and that you're just going to live for free and never pay taxes. That is not what we're talking about. They're trying to implement a structure, which we can speak about in more detail, hopefully with the guidance of the city attorney, to... increase the home exemptions and reduce what you pay. And depending on the value of your home, it may eliminate what you pay for certain things. But you're still going to be paying for the school, and you're still going to be paying for the water. And so it doesn't go away. It doesn't go away. So please let that be the message. I don't want to belabor and go into the details of things, but I want this pie chart to be like a basic example. You see that green thing? You're going to pay that. You see that other big chunk? You're going to pay most of that. Probably nobody actually knows that yet and the other pieces I don't think are affected you're gonna pay that so this is about certain savings and you can go into the the property appraisers website and put in your address or if you have your folio number you put in your folio number and and And you will be able to see your own pie chart, and you'll be able to get a sense of how much you're actually going to be saving. If I understand it correctly, eventually, if you have a $200,000 home or $300,000 home, that means that the city is not going to be getting your income, your taxes. And we are structured the way that our city was designed was we're going to give away the candy store on the beach so that developers can build these massive things with these massive, you know, taxpaying properties. And that's going to fund the west side and our parks and everything else. So when we are giving now homestead exemption, if those are, if eventually that disappears or is significantly reduced, then that impacts what we're able to take in and how we were, it disrupts our plan, our original plan that basically is the east side pays for a lot of the west side. And we're able to And that was the reason, right? Oh, but these buildings are so tall, and we don't want them. Yeah, but we want the tax revenue, and that's why we've been able to do what we've done. I'm not saying that I love that premise, but that's the premise that it was built on, and that's what we've been working on. So when you start disrupting that, for us, it would be very impactful. and maybe survivable for us. But we can't just think about us as a city, Sunny Isles Beach, because we know that 20% is homesteaded. So this conversation is about that 20%. If you're a renter, by the way, you don't want this. If you're a renter, this doesn't help you at all. And that's a lot of our residents. And ultimately, again, nobody's giving you straight answers, but ultimately, if this ends up falling apart, they're going to say, well, that's okay. We're going to increase. You're not paying property tax, or the line is you shouldn't pay rent to live in your house. That's not even factual, but okay. We'll just increase the sales tax. And now, the property that is saving, let's say... let's say, I'll use Aquilina as an example. That's big, expensive properties. If they're going to be saving a lot of money, I'll call it whatever, $30,000. They can be saving $30,000. And then this pie chart person, they maybe are saving $400. But they're equally going to be charged sales tax when they go to the supermarket and buy their groceries. So the $400 savings are going to get eaten up at the grocery, but not necessarily the $30,000 savings. So it's a tax shift, potentially, if we end up having that sales tax conversation. Because we carved too much, and now we the state can't fund itself or the county can't fund itself. So I'm not getting straight answers. I don't know about you guys, but this is very concerning to me. I'm a little confused. Wait, wait, wait.

I want to make sure to give Commissioner Lama and let them finish and then we'll ask questions.

So the sales tax is a possible remedy if this goes wrong, which is what, in the FLC, what we've been talking about, because it's already being tossed around. Like, well, if we carve too much, well, we can fix it with sales tax. But then that becomes a tax shift really to the middle class. And you eat up your savings at the grocery store or wherever, whereas the people who saved a lot don't necessarily eat up those savings. So, yeah, I just wanted to show this and to express my deep, deep concern. I know that there's a lawsuit. Maybe the city attorney can talk about that. But you can find out what your pie chart looks like online.

Commissioner Lama, did you want to add anything to your item? Yes. Okay, go ahead. One second. I just want to make sure that the city attorney has advised me that we have to be very careful as to how we present this so that we're not trying to sway anyone

Yeah, well, in this setting, the statute says that you as individuals basically can have your own opinions and express them on any issue at any time. So in this form, you can. Once it gets on the actual ballot and it's issued a ballot number, there will be some tweaking to that. Regardless, you can speak about it, but you should never voice, don't vote for this or vote for this.

That should never come out of your mouth. But we can voice our personal opinions right now? Yes, you can. But are we having the discussion? What is the purpose? I don't think we have to. I just want to make sure that they get heard.

No, no, no. When we have a discussion, the item is to give the staff direction about something.

Not necessarily.

So we are right now here campaigning for an issue.

Like I said, my original intention for this was a legislative update. And this is definitely on our agenda. on our radar. And I wanted to mention the other thing is that one of the things that's been mentioned is, well, there's going to be a creation of maybe like a grant different grants so that if you're a city in need, you can apply for certain grants. But then we're applying for grants for our own money, especially if you're Dayton-Broward because we are donor counties. So we would be taking in less and then maybe get a grant of our own money back, which I think those grants would really be intended for... There's a term for it, like compromised communities. But that's not the word. But communities in trouble, something. I don't remember what it's called. So I just think this is not well defined, and the study that was supposed to help us, if I remember correctly, it was actually vetoed last year. So I'd like to know the data that supports this. And I haven't gotten anything. I've spoken to different people and I'm not getting anything. So it concerns me a lot.

And just for anyone, members of the public that are watching, we do not have the ability to put this on or off the ballot. This is just a presentation and a general discussion. Commissioner Lama, do you want to just add something and then?

Yeah, so from a macro level, I think that if we could give some tax relief to the residents, I think we could be all in agreement. The issues that I have with this is that a lot of cities, and I'm talking about the state as a whole, a lot of cities, and even neighboring cities of ours, have 80% homestead. So they're going to take a huge tax hit And then the consequence of this would be that they're going to be dependent more on the state. They're talking about some special fund to give to cities that are in dire straits, et cetera, et cetera. So the question is, how is a small city that's 80%, 90% homestead and they're going to take a huge tax hit, how are they going to be able to fund their police department, infrastructure, et cetera? So I think that it is a good idea, but then the state itself sees it as an opportunity to have more control over municipalities. So we need to be very careful with that. Another point that I don't like is that they're telling us how to spend the tax revenues. There's different categories. It talks about public safety, infrastructure, natural resources, debt services, et cetera. So for instance, Talking specifically about our city, we're not going to be able to have the team programming that is for free. Obviously, it is not paid. The senior roundtable, wellness series, et cetera. I don't think we could even have the residence academy, correct, under this new law. So it is concerning that the state is imposing and telling us basically what to do. I understand that there's some programs that other cities perhaps have misspent their funds, et cetera, et cetera. But we need to be very careful about the unintended consequences of this. And we need to make the public aware that there are certain programs that if this passes on November, it's going to go on the ballot in November. People are going to be voting for this, if it passes, that this, this, and that could happen. So I just wanted to kind of open that up for discussion. And I don't know, what can we do about it? I mean, if we're going to lose the funding, we cannot do senior roundtable anymore. We cannot do our movie nights anymore, our yearly parties. what are we going to, how are we going to move forward? I mean, it's sad because we've been able to develop some nice programs for the seniors, for the teens, and for other residents. And for it to just disappear like that because of a good idea where the state is making it kind of into a power grab too is just very concerning to me.

OK, I would add to that. And thank you for bringing up how the monies are being used, because that is a total overreach on home rule. We should be able to.

I think we should open this to discussion. This is a monologue. Yeah, I agree. If you don't mind, let Commissioner Stevenson go ahead. OK. First of all, I would like to know where these Where these numbers come from? What numbers? The specific ones that you guys put in the memo saying, for the first year, we are going to lose $814,000. Second year, $1.4 million. Third year, $5.1 million. So there is no math attached to this. So what is the math?

Yes, please. So that's based on last year's tax rolls that we received from Miami-Dade County.

Again, so please share these calculations with us because that depends on the amount of homes that are homestead here in the city of Sunny Isles. Correct. So how many homes are homestead in Sunny Isles?

4,153 based on last year's tax roll. Correct. Out of over 25,000 parcels.

Out of 19,852 parcels. So it went down parties because parcels I have as information for the tax Appraiser that we have around 25,000 parcels and I'm just using round numbers I'm looking at the Excel spreadsheet that came from Miami-Dade County. That is the tax roll. Okay. Well, so I have different information. So a few things There is also a website that is called Save Our Homes Tax Savings Calculator. It's very simple. Same title. Save Our Homes Tax Savings Calculator. You put your address there. You don't even need to know your parcel. And it will tell you how much that you are going to be saving from this. So like I said, I want to know the calculations for these numbers. And I saw the two pieces of legislation. This is totally a Tallahassee conversation. I mean, we can be talking all night about this. It will make zero difference of how the people is going to be voting or what already Tallahassee passed and put on the ballot. So there is nowhere said in those two bills, there are two, because they are companion bills, nowhere it says that they are going to be approving our budget. So when we are here saying that the teen programs is going to be eliminated, or senior citizens academy, or residence academy, or seniors whatever, This is fear mongering, because we don't know. No, it's not. Excuse me. Hold on. I haven't finished. I haven't finished, please.

Well, I need to correct you.

Because they cannot approve our budget. They are not approving. They are saying that we have to continue using the money for what you said, safety purposes for the police, for fire department, et cetera. They are saying that we have to use our money for that. They are not saying that we cannot continue using the money for certain other things. So that's not what the legislation said. That is us when we are going to be passing our budget. So we are still going to pass, unless this legislation now is saying that they are going to be the ones approving our budget, which is completely different. And then exactly what you are saying, the programs and all of that can be eliminated. But right now, it doesn't say anywhere that they're going to be the ones that are going to be dictating how we use every of our budget. They say what we have to, what we have to be funding. It doesn't say we are not going to continue funding the other program. So like I said, this is completely a Tallahassee conversation. And I would like to ask one very, very simple question. Why are we having this discussion? What is the expectation of having all this presentation? That, still, I don't understand. If it's only to inform the people, well, you guys can open a podcast and do that, or go outside and give flyers about it. So we are using our time here right now Just to do that, to inform the people one hour about it, I don't get it.

Well, may I? Yes.

Go ahead, and then we'll give you a chance.

OK, so going back to your point, so there are seven permitted spending categories. There are spending categories permitted by this new legislation, OK? This tells you specifically how we are allowed to spend the tax revenue, property tax revenue. I don't understand your point. I mean, it's very clear, night and day. So if we want to continue with the senior roundtable or team programming, where is the funding going to come from if we cannot spend the tax dollars from that, our property tax dollars? May you answer that question, please, to me?

I don't have the same spending categories in front of me right now. OK, so we can be very creative where to put it, because there is a lot of things that they are not including there.

My point is, are you happy with the state telling us how to spend the tax revenue?

It's not about my happiness in here.

No, no, but we have specific programs that we have developed.

And we have to continue.

And you were a champion for the teens.

Yes, we want to continue.

And now we want to continue those. The big question is, how are we going to continue those? And that's why I put this on the discussion agenda. I'm not here trying to gain points or get stars or rewards or kudos, whatever. I'm here because I am very concerned So I hope you understand that point. I'm not here to make a spectacle.

No, I agree with you. But my question is, what is the purpose of the discussion?

Exactly what I told you.

I want to understand how we're going to be able to continue these programs if the state is imposing on us how we're going to be able to, what we can spend the tax revenue on.

Can you just one second, please? I just want to give Commissioner Joseph a chance because he hasn't had an opportunity.

So for me, I'm not that concerned because the 60% threshold is a very high threshold to have that many votes that would have this law pass. We have police departments. We have police departments, we have fire departments, personnel and their families that would be coming out to vote against this. So we have a lot of opposition. Even though it seems like a good idea to the normal homesteaded resident, I believe we have, I'm not concerned that this will pass. And if it did pass, I would be prepared to still continue in one way or another our city services. We happen to be.

We need to think about. We need to start preparing.

Let Commissioner Joseph finish.

Yeah. So there is a way. I mean, we happen to be a well-off city. We have our own means. There are some cities that are living on the edge currently. I read an article that some cities actually, if this passed, might have to consolidate with other cities in order to survive. And the state apparently has nothing, doesn't see anything wrong with that. But we're not one of those. So I believe that. And like I said, I don't see this passing. If they were to lower the threshold, it might have a better chance. But with a 60% threshold and with the opposition that I'm looking at, I don't think that it has a chance of passing.

If I may. Yes, please go ahead. So I think as a city, Sunny Isles, because we are only 20% and we're well off. We can probably survive this. And now whether we're then not allowed to fund other things is another story. And we may have to charge for those things or whatever. But we can't just think about us as a city because this is statewide. And while there may be cities where there's waste and and fraud. Because I think this is intended to force poorly run cities to tighten their belt. But we're not one of those cities. And in fact, we have the lowest millage. And so we're doing very well with a low millage. We are not the targeted kind of city that this legislation, I think, is intended to target. to impact, but yet here we are because it's statewide. And I would caution also that you don't know what you don't know. So while we may be okay, there may be cities that have to consolidate. There may be other cities that just get completely destroyed. So we don't know those things. And then what impact is that going to have? Then who saves those cities? And And where are those answers? So I just feel that we need to, you know, it probably won't be popular. I agree with you. But that's only going to be the case if people understand it or at least know that this is, I don't think this has been fully thought out. which would explain my lack of answers on certain things. But I appreciate you bringing up, if we are not allowed to spend on these things, then we're going to have to start charging, I imagine, right? We're going to have to start charging for the residence academy, the shuttle, all the things that are free, the spot, or they disappear.

OK, I'll let you just finish on.

Yeah, I'm all for tax breaks. I just think I don't like it's a good bill, but then I think the state where they're in position and restrictions has kind of hampered it and made it a bad thing. They messed up a good thing. It's a good intention. But I'm just afraid of the unintended consequences. I was reading an article that there's cities that are not going to be, if they take this tax hit, they're not going to be able to fund their police department. They're going to have to, you know, use the police from the county. So, you know, we need to think about that, too.

Okay. All right. Thank you for putting the item and, you know, just... Everyone has the ability to go and research how this affects them and how they want to vote in November So thank you for the discussion next item, please Okay, next item is 4d the display of student artists award winners and the government center lobby Commissioner Joseph.

Yes. Thank you. So this is my item a couple of weeks ago at Norman Edel Cup K through 8 where we had previously had the RK wall where students did their annual artwork and that not being available this year. We had students do their work on campus. There were four students that had, do we have those paintings that we can show? Is that available?

Not on screen. No? Not on screen. Excuse me? Not on the screen, but it is available in the agenda packets, and it's available online as well.

Okay, but not for people at home to see?

Yes, they can see it if they go onto the agenda, and it's shown there.

Okay. did excellent portrayals of the east side of Collins, and I'm asking for them to be rewarded by having them displayed in the lobby of City Hall for a one-month period with their names and also if they could come before the commission to also be awarded for their excellent work.

OK. Commissioner.

I agree.

I'm saying for it. I'm for it.

Nice art, by the way. I like it. Sure. Yes.

OK. OK. So possibly we can then start the display next month. And they can be available for next month's commission meeting.

I guess it all depends on the school. And what information do you need from us, if any? Contact the school and ask them if did they want this is this something they requested? Yes.

Okay, so I Just want to confirm You said the school was agreeable would provide the easels and we'll come set them up. Yes.

That's correct yes, they said they had them and they I Will take care of getting the easels for the presentation

Mayor. Yes. We would also need a release from the students and or the school. OK. To display the artwork.

Sure.

Perfect.

All right, whatever it is you need, as long as they're amenable to it.

And the component of having them come to the commission meeting, I'm assuming you want that for next month to be presented with some sort of recognition.

To have the students appear for next month, notify them, and have them appear before the commission and to, for I guess July 1st, to start to present the artwork in City Hall, in the City Hall lobby.

Well, the display of the artwork, that would be up to the city manager's office. But for purposes of them coming before the commission, that would be for July.

For July, yes. So I just actually received their name. So we'll have the school contact them, and they can get in touch with your office, Mauricio.

OK, next item.

The next item is also my item. It's regarding porous pavers and stamped concrete. After two years of our persuasion, but still we cannot require these items to be used in our city. We can only... and Susan had presented this to me, we can only persuade and offer some type of, what was it that you were saying, Susan? We can offer some type of benefit If the best we cannot require it the best we could do is try to incentivize incentivize yes, we cannot require in one manner or another for now homeowners if they were to redo their driveway to use porous materials in order to alleviate some of the runoff into our streets and sewer system. Another idea I had was that we could give people the incentive to add one or two additional layers of sod to their lawns, which would act as a sponge. I know I've done that on my lawn, and it's made quite a difference as far as absorption of rainwater and where I used to have a puddle in front of my driveway that no longer occurs even in the heaviest rainstorm.

Just as an FYI, to do any of this, the research or anything, to get staff to do that, we would need some direction that it's the consensus of this commission to consider any of these incentives.

Can you clarify just a little bit more what that entails and what that means?

Well stuff would have to go back and research and see the value in doing so get some best practices from other agencies and draft an ordinance for your consideration.

Do you recommend doing that is there a recommendation from the city manager's office to do that.

If I can say let's just answer that's them with it if I can just add one second with the inlet let the city manager answer that. We've now With now the elevation on on new construction has been raised so that that gives more height. And the more that allows for more absorption of water to down to the. Water award natural water level OK.

It's not a Florida building code requirements. So it's really subject to the will of the Commission. It would be an additional requirement for the residents and cost actually just a caveat.

It can't be a requirement because of SB one 80 would have to be solely voluntary. But looking at one 81 allow you to amend your.

That's where the incentives come in right.

Right. So with this item in particular, what we'd have to look at is you incentivize them, but then if they don't keep it up, the benefit of having it is lost. So how would staff ensure that? It's lost to a degree.

It's not fully lost. So it's still better than having solid concrete and full runoff.

But what sort of incentives are we even able to give someone for something like that? So if your idea is someone, ideally you're thinking that they would change out their driveway, right?

Well, if they're about to change out their driveway. Whatever, right. So it's an additional alternative.

Right. And so what kind of incentives can we even – I'm asking the managers just so that I understand what this discussion is about.

If it's your will, potentially a discounted permit would be –

A discounted permit fee. Okay. And how much is our permit right now, if you know, for driveway?

We're going through a study right now.

Okay.

But no, off the top of my head, I don't know what that permit fee is.

I'd like to hear from the commission. Do you have any feelings for or against Commissioner Lama?

I mean, if there's a benefit to avoiding runoff and we can help mitigate some of the flooding, I'm for it. I would like to hear something from an engineer, see if there's a benefit to having porous concrete. And yeah, I would like to investigate it further if there is a benefit.

Well, I'd like to say that just so you know, there are many states that actually use porous materials on a regular basis. We just happen not to be one of them yet.

Commissioner Stevenson?

Yeah, I'm for it.

You're for doing the study?

Sure, yeah, for doing whatever.

Yeah, I'd like to investigate it further.

So you want staff to look into it, Vice Mayor? That's okay. All right, so next item.

Well, I'm glad after two years, finally the concept has more acceptance. Thank you.

All right, next item, Commissioner Lama.

4F is the Sargassum Cleanup. I'm sorry.

Yeah, so I think that we were all witness to the levels of, you know, the piles of Sargassum that were, you know, present at our beaches for a long period of time. Yesterday, when I went to the beach, I kind of took a peek there, and it was a lot better. You know, it's gotten a lot better. But I just wanted to understand... you know what role do we play I know that it is a county responsibility and they do subcontract you know the cleanup or if you want to call it cleanup of sargassum to to a company but I wanted to see if we could be more proactive as a city or we could work with the county or the state when we have levels of sarcasm that just don't go away and they keep piling up and it makes it extremely impossible to go to the beach and it starts stinking up and all of that so i just wanted to see what options we have um Obviously, we could talk to the county or our county commissioner and see who we could talk to at the state level. I know that Miami Beach passed a resolution which kind of talks about that, you know, how to better work with the county and the state, et cetera, et cetera. So I just wanted to see, you know, from staff, can we look at some options to just improve the situation?

So before we just get into the discussion, I'd like to hear from the deputy manager or the manager, what is the current process? Because obviously this is not only us. I've seen videos where actually a lot worse than us. So I started feeling lucky. But deputy manager, what is the current process?

So the current process is, as Commissioner Lama stated, is the state owns the beach, the county has the management agreement, and they maintain The private property owners supplement that by contracting with Beach Raker directly themselves. It requires a special permit from the state to be able to do anything with the sand permit that we do not have nor do we have the staff or the equipment to manage that ourselves. So if we were to take any additional action, it would have to be us contracting through like a beach raker directly ourselves.

And that's because of the the sea life that's in the in the seaweed an environmental permit that we don't environmental permit and so do they actually They they rake the sand they don't go out into the ocean and collect it they do not right so it's whatever collects on the beach so as it's coming out from wherever in the ocean it keeps coming and they are collecting just what's on the beach and Correct.

They really don't collect it. Not collect it. I mean, they bury it.

They bury it. I forgot the word for it. They turn it over. Turn it, whatever. OK. Commissioner Joseph.

So I was alerted last week by one particular building. And I contacted Mickey Steinberg's office. And she said, yes, the county is supposed to be raking the beach every day. And she lit a fire under them. And I heard that the beach was raked. And the particular building was happy. And I believe they worked all the way down the beach.

Okay. So. What part of this did you want to discuss us potentially so so I wanted to see.

I don't know of getting the permit because it is very costly from what I understand you know you have to haul away the sargassum you need to have a place where you could just keep it there for a few days before it kind of dries and shrinks up and then you have to take it to another place so My idea is not to, but hold on, my idea is to see what options there are, start researching and maybe talking to other coastal municipalities, neighboring municipalities, about putting together some sort of program with them where we work with the state and the county. you know, just see how we could better manage it or the county can better manage it.

So is that because at some point for our budget, would that be a new program?

No, no, no. I'm talking about having the county and the state do it for us without a cost.

Wait, wait. Let's just let one at a time.

Well, Jerry, I'm putting this as a discussion item. First, we need to investigate what's out there, do our research, understand the issue, okay, see what options are there, because I'm learning myself. So I'm going to talk to... Mickey Steinberg, okay, see what options we have. And then I think we should also talk to other coastal municipalities, see what they're doing, okay? Miami Beach just passed a resolution similarly to what I'm saying, and perhaps I'll bring it forward next month so we could adopt it. with some minor changes, perhaps. But yeah, I think I would like to direct staff to see what can be done. If there's a budget for it, fine. But my idea is to not spend any money and work with the existing entities that are responsible for cleaning up the sarcasm.

So I've already had conversations with the neighboring mayors about this, because obviously it affects everybody. And generally, the consensus is that we shouldn't be spending our money to do this, because the county, as per the presentation, gets a large chunk of our tax dollars. They should definitely be the ones that are taking care of it. Now, on the flip side is it's not like it goes away. Every year it comes, and it's not something that can just be rid of. It's about how quickly can we get it off the beach rather than, you know, I don't want to set the expectation that we're going to be able to clean it up even if we had all the money in the world because it's coming from the ocean.

No, I understand, but it comes to a point where you just have like mountains of it. Yeah, it's disgusting, yeah. And I think at one point we have to say, okay, we need, we've reached a level, maybe have a threshold where we say, okay, you know what, this needs to be hauled away.

Yeah, and it needs to be at the county, absolutely, yeah. Okay. If I could say.

Wait, I just want to give everyone else, I want to give a chance to someone else. Because when I called.

Thank you. Yes, thank you. Commissioner Stevenson?

If we offer to do it, then we're going to have to pay for it. I'm not asking for that. I understand. I know that's not what you said. But my point is that if we open that conversation, they say, yeah, by all means, you do it. You pay for it. I can tell you personally, I lived for three years in La Perla. And we knew this was coming. They will let us know. It starts smelling after a few days, et cetera. So it is not that if it's coming or not. We know it's coming every single year. So we need to be ready. Another thing, another component is that there are certain birds that they feed out of it. So there's some sure birds or something that they eat from that little shrimp sink, etc. So it's nature. We get it. It might get annoying. I remember it gets smelly. But guess what? After a couple of days, it's gone. So this is one battle that I think we should not be fighting. If we want to get more information, by all means. But again, if we open this conversation with the county and we offer the minimum, or with the state, they're going to say, yes, do it, but pay for it. So, like, I lived there for three years, you know? So I remember every season what was happening, and I remember the kids. My daughter even make a funny name for it. She used to call it Lechuga de Mar. It's like sea lettuce because it looks like lettuce at the very beginning. So, again... It is coming, so we need to be prepared. We need to be ready. The people that live on the beach, they know it. Maybe the people that is coming from other areas, the tourists, they might not know. But, well, you know, they have to do their research. So, yeah, we can research all that, but I don't see what is it that much that we can do, actually.

Right. And I think it's really up to each building as well, especially the hotels, to invest the money that the tourists are paying them to clean. And I think they do. They do. But I agree that it's about knowing that it's coming, not if it's coming.

But the question remains, okay, are we, should we investigate to see if it gets, you know, out of hand? Should we be able to haul it away? Should the county help us? I mean, we should at least try. It's the county. Yeah, but so I think we should pursue that and have some sort of working structure with them because I think that they just bury it. And when it gets to an inordinate level, I think... we should tell them, listen, you need to come and pick it up, or the state needs to work with you. But obviously, I don't want us to fund it because it is very expensive from what I understand.

From what I was told, they're supposed to be raking every day during the season.

But raking means burying. Right. I mean, I don't know if you were at the beach. I mean, that sarcasm was there for quite a while.

Well, because we need to be on them and be proactive to make sure they're doing their job.

But not the so that's why we should have some sort of maybe already have a plan that carries the county's responsibility we just have to be on them and we haven't been so that's the if that's a solution that's a solution, but we should have is like talk to them and then have a working plan with them the state who whomever so it is a problem that that we've been talking about it for years.

So I just want to go away one call and it got done.

That's for one building.

I'm talking about a- No, that's the entire down the beach.

All right. Can we just let the deputy manager chime in and then I think we know.

I just wanted to, it is the county's responsibility and we reached out to the county and they have been trying to get larger equipment. to use on the beach. And they finally got state approval to do that. They were not allowed to use that equipment during turtle season, which is typical. But when it got to a certain level, as you said, have a plan when they don't haul it away. But with the heavier equipment, they were able to bury it deeper, churn it under. And that's why it looks better. The weather also helped because the winds changed. So the combination of them using the dozer, the bigger equipment, And the weather has helped it tremendously. He sent me a video the next day that showed how much better it is. OK.

Yeah, I just want to make sure that they know exactly that they need to come out and, you know, not let it sit there and get worse.

And maybe it's a matter of, you know, as I said, they weren't allowed to use that other equipment until it got to a certain level. Maybe that level needs to be reduced so they can use it sooner.

Yes.

Okay. All right. I think that that's it, right? The other items got deferred?

Yes.

All right. So meeting adjourned. We will see you all at 6 o'clock. Thank you.

Amen.