Public Works Committee - Regular Meeting

I move adoption and second. All in favor? I. Okay. Um, next on the agenda, discussion, recommendation for safety netting improvements at Craig Council Park.

Okay. Um, I feel like it was about a year or so ago since we were last talking about Craig Council Park Improvements by the Little League organization. So, for those that don't know, the Little League is a nonprofit 501c3 that are dedicated to baseball, softball, recreation activities that utilize the villages park being great council park. And the last improvement was the miners field which is now completed where they converted that from just grass and field to turf which turned out amazing. So that is going to substantially help out the program with less rain days. So they get to program and schedule and they don't have to pull out their hair right Mike with rescheduling rain days. So after uh the completion of that they uh talked as a collective with their board and felt prudent to make additional improvements to the park. And the next on the docket that they would like to see is safety netting improvements in the spectator areas which I could say firsthand is well necessary. Yes, there's been a lot of close calls and even worse where people have been hit by fly balls and given the close proximity of the three different fields, you can't watch all three at once. It's nearly impossible. So, you don't know where the balls are coming from. So, this is a great improvement uh not only for the little league, the players, but also the spectators that utilize that complex uh both with programming and just people that just like to use the park when it's not being programmed. So, these improvements are included in the packet, including a cover letter by the Little League organization. We have two of the board members in attendance today. There's exhibits and attachments of where the netting would be placed. Uh so, we uh as far as village staff, DPW have met with the Little League organization as well as their preferred contractor for this. Overall, we feel comfortable, confident with design. uh we do have to tweak maybe a pole

location here or there just to make sure it does not interfere with our utilities, but our DPW has been fully uh integrated within their process. So, we we're going to give them the final green light if it's approved by uh public works committee and village board. So, with that, if there's any questions, I'm sure that uh uh Mike or Mike would be more than happy to answer. We're looking for that recommendation this evening from the public works committee. And to clarify, this is at no cost to the village. That is correct. No cost to the village. It's 100% supported through the little league. Okay. Any questions? It's like a sounds like a win all around. That's sounds like a home run. Yeah. There you go.

All right. In that case, I would look for Is there anything you want to add to this or are you comfortable with Matt's presentation? Great job. All right. Awesome. Um, I'd look for a motion. Uh, I move to recommend to the village board to accept the proposed Craig Council Park safety netting improvements at no cost to village as described within the attached memo and exhibits. Second. All right. All in favor? I oppose. All right. Done. Thank you very much. Are we good with that on consent? Consent item. I am good with that on consent. Are you good with that on consent?

Yeah. Perfect. Sounds good. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Item number two, three on our agenda. Sorry. Uh discussion recommendation I'm sorry, four discussion recommendation for storm sewer outflow rehabilitation design services.

Yes. So, um, we've had many check-ins related to storm sewer outfalls since our Big Bay Buckley Park um project that was unbeknownst to us when that uh started. So, as we say, you know, fool me once, uh, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Uh so with that, we put in motion through public works committee and village board to do our due diligence with the remainder of those outfalls that are pointed towards Lake Michigan, especially given the height differential that um it's very very difficult to uh do any necessary repairs after the fact just because they're 70 plus feet uh with those manhole structures below uh surface. So Mid City uh last year was able to perform these inspections on the remainder of the Lake Michigan outfalls and presented that to the public works committee and uh the village board. So with that uh presentation and document uh Mid City along with the village board was able to prioritize the critical storm sewer uh utility maintenance and rehabilitation plan and that was included within that packet. So based on that document, uh DPW staff went out and uh see additional input to use that as a road map onto next steps because we know there was a sense of urgency based on the presentation some of the pictures that we could not sit on our hands with any of these necessary uh maintenance functions. So with that uh we uh worked with Rukert and Milky which is in attendance this evening to put forth a scope based on the mid city report to move forward with uh design services for the the top tier I'll call it um uh outfall locations being LM1 which is the northernmost uh outfall location just north of Cody Park. So with that,

that'll be the main scope of the program for the rehabilitation of the first 50 feet of that outfall as well as safety grate on that specific one. And then LM3 also was recommended to put a safety rate on that outfall location. So we're just going to package both of those main core scopes of services together since Rooker Milky would be out there performing survey work and everything else. I would say it was a surprise. It shouldn't have been a surprise, but it's still a surprise of how much the DNR really regulate even the outfall with rehabilitation. So, if you look at the scope of service, there is going to be um an individual permit that's required through the DNR, which is a huge undertaking. I've had to do that before for other regulatory projects uh where uh it touches u any type of water. So that's going to be a large part of it is not only the the practicality and functionality of the scope of service, but working with the DNR from a compliance standpoint, too. So this really puts us in motion where we're able to integrate design recommendations uh this year. So in a future CIP process when we go out to borrow, we'll have uh I would say more confident numbers when it's going to come to construction. So that's not within this two-year borrow. by using and integrating design services in 2026 will set us up for 2028 construction would be the recommendation and um Rukurt Milky they already started collaborating and they still feel confident with that construction design schedule so they don't see any issues with um doing design this year and construction still in 2028. That was going to be my question is is there a chance that it would deteriorate enough over that period of time that those designs would no longer be applicable?

And I and again that's why I invited Jared uh to this meeting. So if there's questions as far as what their professional opinion is, they uh these two individuals, they really specialize in storm sewers, storm utilities, outfalls, and that's why it's my recommendation to go forth with uh Rooker Milky for this specific program, too. So, by all means, if a committee member has a question for uh Rooker Milky, by all means. How about that question?

Yeah. Uh we didn't have boots on the ground looking at the outfall. Uh so, based on the report that, you know, I sat down and review with Matt that city put together. Uh you know, I'm not anticipating there to be some this year. Um you know when we get in there and we do more investigation, we get surveyed uh we actually get you know some field data collected we'll take a look at there's some sense of urgency at that point and we'll communicate with Matt shift gears and move in a different direction but you know I think the the schedule that was laid out that initial report I think uh we can stick to that proceed forward

and there was nothing that you saw in that report that gave you nightmares. Okay. We actually coordinated with Tom from from the city of projects about the area. He did a nice job comprehensive good breakdown tell

go ahead. Maybe this is just language. Um is this our language ASAP or is that Mid City's language? that is mid cities. Okay. Because the um you know they're they're just words, but it strikes me that there's a difference between ASAP and how I interpret that and kind of like it. We'll do it two years from now.

And I think it was more about that there's no uh grades from a safety perspective when they gave the presentation a while ago back in October of last year. I think it was more of an accessibility concern that anyone can walk down there. But I think the question was asked, well, is there any like spray paint or anything else that would show that this is being used for the wrong intention? And I think Tom's uh statement was no, it doesn't look like people were accessing it as far as like kids or anything like that. Yeah. To to the untrained eye, the pictures were fairly alarming. Couple Yeah.

Yeah. And so that's why if you're feeling okay, I will try and feel okay. Um but please you know if you get in there and it becomes more alarming obviously. Yep. When we get in there for for our field collection our survey we'll we'll take the closing book and you know analyze. There was some structural damage obviously that you see in there but um further needs to be elevated to level and this is one of those been there done that kind of things. You guys are well verssed in

that northern the northernmost one it some of that's on private property right that you'll be are there any issues there with Yep. We've got some we got some effort in there to do uh some easement descriptions and exhibits uh you know what to coordinate with the homeowner property owner. Uh so yes there is there is some storm sewer appear to be on private property at least from our initial investigation. So we do have some efforts that are So they've already been kind of bought in on this. The property owner has not Okay.

But they are aware that we were investigating because there is a manhole structure that the property owner actually knows of. So our DPW staff when we were working with Mid City originally last year walked the site. We asked permission to walk that neighbor's site. He was able to guide us specifically where that man old great was. So, it's not a surprise that we're investigating. We did tell them that we're doing our due diligence and that there's going to be more to come.

But, I mean, there might be might have to excavate some of that. I mean, are they aware? I mean, how are is there an agreement there? I I wouldn't jump to that conclusion as far as excavation right now because there's different means and methods as far as how to do the repairs and that's what Rooker Milk is going to look into as far as slip lining potential like a cure in place pipe like we did with the other outfall and and potential open cut excavation but it's only the 50t the first 50 feet so you're pretty far east on that shoreline versus the other part of like closer to their home per se. So just for clarity, um we have a manhole on private property and we don't have an easement. That is correct. That we are aware of.

Yes, we also have a an entrance sign on private property and don't have an easement for that. So yes, we should I think it's one of the things that comes with an older community. Easements weren't as common. I have a million in my garage. Is that right? you're going to make us pay dearly for an easement. But I you know when they came and they took the storm sewer things down for you know we went through the neighborhoods and we had to take them off our houses to the outside. There's a I have big storm sewer drain in but they said they thought it was closed off but I mean it well it's got a big manhole cover on it. It's

field trip. Yes. um in my garage. Next piece of clarity is so on in your memory, Matt, you have the the the table of eight different projects that Mid City came up with. Are these all are all eight of these applicable to this design work or only a few? Only a few I would say. um

so it would be if the last one LM1 to repair the eastern 50 ft of the 48 in tunnel would be on there. Um and then the two grates. So the LM1 and LM3 top the top two are on there and then the design service and the design phase for the outfalls and the tunnel rehabilitation on LM1 about midway down. Can we can we talk a little bit about LM1 and installation of a temporary safety grading? Is that what we're doing here? Are we having design work for a temporary? No, I I do not recommend temporary unless recruit milk with you. Jared, I brought it up. So, you're designing permanent, correct? Got it. Okay, good with that.

And um just because it's always good to have a refresher, I I assume that those grates are these u claws that hang down. I remember we used to have grates that were somewhat impassible and during the 2010 flooding um enough refu blocked up against them that you know kind of plugged the area so they redesigned I don't know L2 or something. So it's kind of a claw where it stops people but hopefully some of the refues go through and that's best practice still. Yeah, there's uh there's obviously a maintenance component to these safety grates. Uh they're going to have to be inspected and make sure that there's no debris that's hung up and then uh make sure that they are passive fallen. Um so yeah, it's the the safety grade is meant to prevent access and and kids and people getting up into the storm sewer piping. You obviously don't want to have that or see that. Um, but it it is more uh susceptible to to hold debris and catch debris safety rates. So, uh, that's something that DPW probably keep track of, get down there.

Maybe there was an aspect of like the ability to have it break away. Sure. You know, where like enough stuff if if a rain event occurred that was so dramatic that flushed so much debris out that it would give way. Yep. Those are all items that we can look at in design. Okay. Talk through options and help different technology. Perfect. Thank you. Any other questions? Otherwise, I would take a motion or motion for a recommendation.

I move to recommend the village board to approve the milky professional service agreement amount of 86,465 to support storm sewer outfall rehab design and bidding services as shown in the attached memo. Second anyone second. All in favor? None opposed. All right. Moving on to also consent for that is okay. Village board. Well need. Yeah. I mean somebody wants to pull. You have the right to review it in the packet beforehand. Sounds good. I It's just a topic that I think it's an interesting it's a good thing for people to know about. Yep. That's the only reason I hesitate.

I will call it out when I send out the draft agenda and suggest that people could watch the meeting or reach out if they have questions. Does that work? Yeah, that makes sense. Or, you know, or even attach the report. Yep. Because it's rather impressive. Yep. I can do that. Um, okay. Discussion recommendation for storm and sanitary sewer planning professional services agreement. Thank you both for being here. Yeah, I think you're off the hook, but if you want to stay, you are more than welcome to discuss our storm and sanitary sewer planning professional services agreement as well.

Yes. So, more on the topic of utilities uh since this was all uh part of our CIP and again something that's very top of mind not only with our storm sewer uh rehabilitation work but overall especially after the August of last year's flood event the thousand-year flood really brought back to um the the top of mind as far as what that means for the village for both short-term and long term and I felt that We we gave a good presentation and a recap of the thousand-year storm uh last year that kind of uh put statistics, some data, some maps together, but that was just basically a placeholder uh for next steps because I think that's the most important thing is that we continue to have a road map when it comes to both operational on our standard operating procedures as well as a framework for our CIP moving forward of where do we have points within our storm and sanitary sewer system that maybe need those improvements so we're equitable of how we manage storm and sanitary events throughout the village. So utilizing that presentation, we gave kind of like a 50,000 ft overview of our goals going into 2026. So Mustafa and myself really sat down since that meeting to really see how we can optimize and benefit a study for future planning, but also more immediate needs, especially on our operations to ensure that we're prepared for any of these peak wet weather events moving forward. Back in the day, we had flow meters, for instance, that were able to trigger a response by our DPW. I want to dust off those standard operating procedures, ensure that we know where our weak points in the system are so we have our our pumps ready to do bypass operations during those wet

weather weather events. We can continue to collect data to trigger where we should be focusing our efforts and integrate that also with MMSD with what their overall MIS system would be. So we're collaborating um from basically local all the way to um AC across lines with MMSD and their sewer shed. So within the packet uh kind of gives a summary within the memo of what goals we have within this study for this year. And with that uh there's four main deliverables and there's subcategories within that. Again, first thing that I mentioned was flow monitoring, metering, bypass pumping. on this is really going to help out our DPW operations. So, speaking internally with our staff, that just seems necessary uh for a lot of our new staff to ensure that they're trained properly and it makes sense. We don't want to have a standard operating procedure that is unrealistic. So that way it's an integration not only between Mustafa and myself but making sure with our superintendent and their staff that they can actually leverage and utilize that document to really be amendable to those storm events. So,

have you found past practices that are not? So, there's one story of a bypass pumping that we could not bypass 2K Hill because all that sanitary would go within the basin. But in order to bypass to the next basin over, you're running maybe 200 300 feet of hose to get that to the next uh storm sewer basin that actually has an outfall of either the Milwaukee River or Lake Michigan. that was supposed to have been fixed. So that so so that Okay.

So that's the things that we're looking into to make sure that we're all on the same page. So dusting off those standard operating procedures, making sure that my operation team is on the same page as our village engineer will be extremely important for us. Yeah. My understanding was when we put the sec the local lateral alongside that we fixed that. Correct. Thank you. So there we go. Okay. So, but I to your point that makes me real nervous that that I'm saying that Terra knows things that somebody else what a bit. Yes. A bit.

And that's that's the main point is I feel like even for myself, I haven't been around as long. So with the staff turnover, it's going to be extremely important that we make sure that these documents are readily available. They're cross-trained and our DPW knows where to find them and cross-cheed. So you are able to Okay. Yes, ma'am. when we um decided um during a aftermath conversation uh post August 10, 11 um we had um uh at at Village Hall with Kelsey and Matt, we essentially budgeted this amount

to sort of be a catchall to uh bring everyone and everything to current.

Okay. um as you know we've had um study after study in the early 2000s and you know I happen to have sort of a giant collection of you know files from those days and um um with the hindsight obviously so we are going to put together these four elements um as you said you know we used to have that manhole we would pump it towards Cahill and then we built the relief sewer so that's that's that's out. But um there are other locations that sort of makes us nervous. Um and we're going to identify and have like a short and concise action plan, you know, if so, you know, the the the um the rainfall amount is shown as you know, astronomical that we would be ready. Um the other thing that you will find there is that uh Matt and I have been looking at there are 16 bypasses um a number of them are in our um north quadrant um by the lake and um much to both of our surprise that we just received a letter from MSD that said oh you know this meter shed is non-compliant and um so we suspect that our storm sewers are leaking into our sanitary sewers, not the other way around. So

effects that we Yes. Yes. You I assure you this is what both of us started with and then Matt sent out some crews and um Are they still reversed? Well, they're still the way they always been. Well, there were some that were reversed and they were automatically dumping directly. Okay.

Anyway, so a major sort of re overhaul and overview and sort of um summary of what we have and what we need to do. Like those would be easy, right? they would be um and see if there's anything that needs to be or should be or could be added to long range planning. So, we wanted to sort of bring all of that back to relevance, right? I mean, there's that giant Donahghue study. There's a giant um I mean, I think every consultant had something to do with um here,

right? Right. So, I mean, when you print them, they're hundreds of pages. Um, so we're going to bring them back so that um those of us not you and I have something to, you know, flip through and and and look. One one thing I noted on here was that you were going to do a basement backup risk heat map. Yes. My concern about that is that I think there are a number of people in the general public who say there's water in my basement, it backed up.

Do we have a way to discern overland water which came into the basement versus okay based on so we would do this not by anecdotal but we would do just math. Okay. And we have done it before. So what led to the Fairmont relief sewer and the Palisades and all that was that tool. Okay.

Um and incidentally that's how we did Shorewood's big giant projects. Um and um so that would give us sort of a view. Uh back in the day when Idlebeck was here um we had done a similar thing to identify uh what used to be you know what started out as Woodruff like plan that transformed itself into Fairmont plant. So similar then we would say oh you know here's a risk area when it hits three inches and here it is 4 in etc. And then when you look at it that way, something that pops up suspicious in 2 in, right, is a is an outlier.

Mhm. Then we can say, ah, that's sort of a focus area. So that at least everybody starts out with a fair chance.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. This all makes sense to me. Okay. Anyone else have questions? I'm sorry. I did not mean to dominate that conversation. Um, not so much questions other than I I try to look at this with a critical eye and and some of the things, some of the bullet points, it concerns me that we don't already have that. Um, and and maybe you can speak to it in a minute. You know, the concept of identify critical flow and level monitoring locations throughout the village. You mean we don't have that? like that that doesn't make sense to me that that we need to identify those um review and update current SOPs. I'm that that's it is a surprise to me that standard operating the essence standard is standard, right? That that and we've had enough rain events that I would think that would be ironed out by now. So, I'm not saying I don't think we ought to do these things. I'm saying I I'm a little surprised that we're going down this rout road because we don't have them already. Um, you know, street flooding risk map. I I thought we had that. Um, we can kind of go on and on. Evaluation of sanitary sewer in the storm sewer hydraulic models. What do you mean evaluation? Didn't Didn't we already create these hydraulic models? Weren't they evaluated when we created them? Like, you know what I mean? So, like when I looked at this with a critical eye, I'm I'm wondering what bullet points are moving the pile forward and what bullet points are I don't know looking for things that were dropped. I mean that I mean having this conversation here with with Tara that sounds like there's information that has been dropped over the last 15 years and that that's really concerning and like

so not only do we need to do this, we need to like generate a way that this information is permanent. So, one thing that I would say, and Mustafa, you're going to correct me when I air. Um, but one thing that I would say is with the hydraulic model that we have of the village, you do something here. Sure. And you have no idea the impact it has here. And so, it's to some degree it's updating what we have based on things that we have done. The flow monitoring is something that I've been talking about for quite some time. It's been a it's been a while. It's been a bit. Um there was some human error, we could say it,

I would say. So, yes, there was some human error in addition to some flow monitors that stopped working. But yeah, that's a big that that's been a big thing that I've been concerned about. Yeah. I mean,

so you know what I mean? Go. Let me let me uh so I think it's a it's a fair angle. I think um though for example the the notion of having a standard operating procedure to go and pump out manholes on the streets, right? So um we have about what eight 1300ish 1400ish manholes um and our despite what we observe and experience when there are backups right it isn't like um we have a whole bunch of these concentrated areas like we had in the Palisades like we had Woodruff in Fairmont Canad um

it isn't like that right so it isn't like um so in fact it's probably normal that most people don't have I mean Bayside has one right one manhole it rings it flashes red guys have to go there and pump it out otherwise entire two blocks get gets gets backups every time it rains 2 in right we Well, we did and we fixed it. We moved on. So for So the question that we're trying to solve and I'm looking at Matt um is whether there are others that are in that same category. It's possible that we kind of come back and say, well, it isn't like there is a place where you always have to go to to pump out, right? You don't know that. I kind of know that, but I'm going to essentially run the model, ask a specific question is like, is there a place, a street, a street corner or not? Where I need guys going out there and we have to decide like do you go there when it rains two inches or three more than three.

So you're you're doing this more on the math and not the this is all math and and not the anecdotes of No, no, no. This is what does

this is all math. So, so that's on the SOP side. Um, evaluate is probably a wrong uh word, but the last time the model was used, the model was used to design the Palisades and Fairmont, right? So, right this minute, it represents reality out there. We've never asked it. Uh, for example, what would happen if I like just went crazy and put a five six inch rain on it? Uh, we never asked it to show us um as a as a whole, right? where we should first be going if we had to go pump or evaluate come back to you and say hey this is a lower this is an area of a higher risk than everything around it and we have a couple of options do you want us to go forward so in other words these aren't new things these are new questions that came up in this room after August 11th right um because we wanted to know where we stood based on what we lived through and whether we had something else to do that should add it to either capital or operation.

Okay. To be responsive, you know, I mean, it's it's a little Do do you I mean, as you read this, do do you think there's some wording issues that I'm getting hung up on in in that? Well, you probably are because nonitical non-native speaker wrote it. So, okay. Well, what what I mean by that is is that a lot of these words are not really actionable. They're simply we identify critical flow and level monitoring locations instead of identify them and suggest new ones, for example. Um I I I guess I I I want to get stuff done more than I want to get a report back. You don't where?

Yeah. But I I I think if what I would guess and and again correct me when I go wrong, but we have done this in the past. We've identified high need areas and we fix them. So now this takes us to the next step. So that when you think about continuous improvement, making sure that we're working in areas that there for you. It's just some of the wording in here. Agree. Maybe maybe it instead of saying identify critical flow, identify next

analyze and assist and and predict for the future is what I those are that's the kind of words that I'm looking for because I don't I'm not sure identifying anything these things is particularly valuable. I want to know where should we also be monitoring. I want to know for example um Clark Deetsz will confirm that the sewer hydraulic model and storm sewer hydraulic model represent current conditions. Not only do I want you to confirm it, I want you to fix it. You know, I want you to make it better so that um you know, it's a better model, right? Confirming is, you know, that that's helpful, but that just means that whoever made the model did it right the first time. I did. Great. Um and you continue to update the model with every change that we've made in the system. Have you updated the model?

Okay. So, that is that is the model sits as the pipes are today. Do you realize that in my mind you actually have in your office like a layout of fish bay? I actually do water into it and someday I want to come see those they took away my office. So um Kevin I understand what you're saying. I think that the uh where the so the intent is a report. Okay. The intent though is a report that tells this body what our professional opinion is that you should fund next.

Yeah. Right. So the report is essentially says your people should be doing these these five things over at these six locations and all of you all should really uh think of funding this and that and that improvement for the long-term well-being of this village. So that's what the report's going to say and then you can discuss and say oh yeah that well or pot Fair enough. I mean, this is what we asked for, right? I mean, we asked for an autopsy report after You only get to do this after you have rainfall test. Yeah.

I mean, and the reality is there's been a lot of turnover at DVW and so it it is only natural that some of that knowledge falls away. I mean, it's not awesome. I don't love it. But there's been there was a lot of turnover in key roles that that's a natural progression. I mean we live in a world now where some people like paper and some people like computer and until we all get I mean things like he you know saying there's a bunch of documents floating around places and they all just at some point need to be housed in one place and that takes time and Matt is working. It's not perfect. And there's a difference between DVW workers and all of their anecdotes, which are wise anecdotes, but they are,

you know, oh, I remember the time that this thing flooded and I we needed to put a pump here. Like that's not math. No, I want to get to the math, but our we had a key individual who had a lot of responsibility. I just I wouldn't belittle anybody's knowledge. It's just Yeah, there's math and then there's Yep. This is the way we used to do stuff. Yeah. No, I'm not talking about anecdotes at all. I'm not not at all. Yeah. Anyways, I'm I'm in favor of this. I just Okay. Want to challenge some of the wording and make sure that we get to the point that you want to change any of it just that we need to move forward. You know, this is not a this is not just an autopsy. It's a um a plan for the future as well.

It's a road map. Yeah. In my opinion, which will need to be evaluated again. I mean, that's what happens with strategic planning and road maps. say every five years, every two years, you need to look at it again. So, every time there's an event in our case. Yes. Right. Well, or hopefully if there's not an event, you do it better and you can reevaluate. But, you know,

and I'll take the blame for maybe some of the word choice, but I think philosophically what Kevin has said is exactly what our goal was between Clark deeds and village staff 100%. That we don't want to put a document on a shelf and let it collect dust and never see it again. This in my perspective is extremely useful for me both on the planning phase as well as hitting the reset on some of those things that we should be doing. So wi without this I feel like we would be spinning our tires on the anecdotal side. This is going to be a presentation that's going to be future tense with recommendations on capital improvements to improve our sanitary storm water system both small, medium and large. I that one. So we thought we thought that this would follow that presentation that we had after the after the flood right

where you know looking back looking forward etc. So it would essentially follow that and and saying thing is don't write a report write a report and a PowerPoint because that's where um and so it's going to follow that presentation and your direction to us after that presentation was all right well do something about what what next and so okay looking for a motion

move to recommend to the village board to approve the Clark teeth professional service agreement uh to not exceed the amount of $50,000 to support storm and sanitary sewer improvement planning as shown in the attached memo and exhibits. In second. All right. All in favor? I would say yes. Consent is end or do you need this one to be I love that you're picking up on the theme. You know what? You're good with going. Yep. In my opinion, this is fine career consent because I don't think sounds good. I can talk to anybody about sewers who wants to. All right. Although again, it's an interesting topic. It's a super interesting topic. But

well, no, it's it's if if you were flooded in August, you'd say, I want to hear this. I think what they are going to want to hear is the report. Yeah. when the report comes out. I don't think they I don't think anybody wants to know that we're going to talk about it right now because that's going to bring it again to mind and frustrate them that we haven't actually done. What's the ETA on this? It says final report will be presented uh after three months. So, okay, you got three months from today. Sometime in the next half year this year. Beautiful. All right. Moving on to annual pavement resurfacing. Maxine, do we get to hear from you?

I'm not going to steal any of her thunder. This is completely her show.

Go for it. Oh, we're going to move.

Hoping for the map, but it's okay. I can describe it in words. Okay, so this is the proposed street resurfacing locations for 2026. Um, it's a little hard to see on that screen, but it's in light green. It's Devon from Lidell to Santa Monica and then Bay Ridge from Montlair to Monrovia. And this is based off of daily traffic and the condition of the road. Devon has alligator cracking um pretty bad in some spots and then potholes and patches in the middle of Bay Ridge. I noticed that actually because last time we talked about pacer ratings, Devon was rated low and I thought to myself, you know, actually isn't so bad considering, you know, how low it is. Then today I was driving on it and I just lost a tooth and I was like, maybe we need to do something about this.

That's what they do. There you go. Very quickly. And Maxine, do you want to hit on the topic uh per our memo as far as how this is really done in conjunction with our water main and lead service line replacement strategy? So, this is more of a comprehensive plan that looks at both both projects kind of universally. Yes. Um so Matt's correct on that. It does consider the locations that we've chosen for street resurfacing and water mane replacements. So we for just street resurfacing, we're choosing locations that have a bad road but a good or no water mane.

So if someone were to look at this map and say, "Wait a minute, usually you do way more." The answer to that is we are is just in conjunction with other work. Yeah, good point. We usually do way more.

Yeah, that's Mill and Overlay. Our annual budget is 300,000 now for mill and overlay based on our CIP because some of the funding from a traditional mill and overlay is going to be part of that one mile of water man replacement. So if you look at what we're doing on an annual basis this 300,000 mil and overlay as an independent falls outside of our water man. So we're realistically milling overlaying one mile plus on an annual basis. slightly off subject, but because we're talking about roads, um, if I remember correctly, if residents find potholes, they can report them. Um, can we get a social media post about that because I I think there's a number like how is springtime and we're getting them and so thank you.

Yeah, it might actually be good to wait a couple weeks until our crews are actually I imagine I saw them out with hot patch the other day, so I know they've been out. Uh it's cold patch, but we heat it up in the in the bed of the truck, so it's a little bit more uh warm. Yeah, warm patch, let's call it, for sure. But yeah, we have been taking reports, but yeah, I think a social media report. Is there an ideal time? I know we're in like we're in false spring. It feels great outside, but it's going to change and it's going to go back. Is there an ideal time

to uh to approach potholes or minor repairs or is just when you see them? I think when you see them because we want to avoid, you know, risk to vehicles, excessive damage or anything like that. So tampering in cold patch, even if it is a temporary thing, is still going to be better than the alternative letting it go. So if someone sees something measurable, by all means report it over to village hall and we'll get the work order. Okay. Any other questions, concerns, thoughts?

Uh one one other side note, uh um also is this is our year for LRIP. So the local roads improvement program will offset some of those funds for our annual mill and overlay program. So that's also included on the memo. So 47,343 is allocated as part of LRIP. So that's going to help out with the next topic at hand of alleys versus resurfacing. So, yes, we're doing less roads this year, but based on already some of our excavation to prep for Devon Street. We noticed that we have some subpar soils that we need to probably excavate down. So, it's going to be a little bit more than a mill and overlay program, which will eat some of our costs up. So, the LRIP's going to really help offset that as much as possible. Yeah, I I approve Devon Street and North Bay Ridge Avenue, the proposed 2026 rooing program. Devon.

Devon sounds classier than it is way classier. I agree. Do I have a second? We have a second for Devon or Devon. I call it Devon, but if I had to pick one, I'd go Devon. Deon. Would you a second official second? I can't remember. I had it on social media once a voting like how do you pronounce it? Von. Yeah, it's like Kevin with a D. No, because it was uh we do have a motion and a second on the floor. Um all in favor. Any oppose?

All right, moving on. So, this one we weren't I wasn't even thinking we'd put on consent because it's we're just moving now into design. Do you want this on village board agenda? I don't think it's necessary. Do you um not the Yeah. No, because I mean we'll get we'll get the bid and not the end. It would more be if you thought someone on village board would want to change directions in terms of the location of the work.

I No. Okay. I think this is if you have any questions about that, you just go sit down and look at her spreadsheet because it is amazing. Just so you know, the social media vote was 68% Devon like Kevin and 32 Devon. Your name is Kevin. I just feel like there's a bias there. Might have been a leading question. Yes. If it if it was Jacob or Dub, I would have had an attention.

I'm calling us back so that we can all get home for dinner. Um the alley reconstruction.

Okay. So, um, a couple things to the, um, alley reconstruction project. So, this mirrors again our CIP roadmap, but one one item that was presented as part of our CIP is the utilization of MMSD's green solutions program. And the village uh does already have some call green alleys where it's about a 4ft swath down the center that's permeable pavers to capture storm water and treat it because a majority of our alleys are extremely flat, very difficult to reconstruct to begin with. And they don't have storm water solutions back when they originally constructed this. So when you have garages on both sides, that's your fixed point. There's not much you can do to it. So in engineering terminology, you invert that concrete in order to bring it to the center, treat that storm water, and it's a better lifespan of the road. And we can take advantage of MMSD's funding solutions with that. So with that, uh, MMSD did notify all municipalities that there are changes coming to our annual allocation to green solutions.

I know. Let's let's hear it.

Yes. Because so With that, we have 347,000 and some change uh that's unallocated within our village for green solutions. MMSD notified everyone that they have until the end of this year to develop a work plan to basically have a plan of of attack of how to utilize your funds or is they go back to their green solutions account and they get redistributed through more competitive grants. So that's what's really happening after this year. They're transitioning away from annual contributions based on equalized distributions to more of a competitive grant program because they want to see a quicker turnaround. A lot of communities, not Whitefish Bay, but other communities just sit on their money and it's not a it's not a good turnaround process from an accounting standpoint for them. So they want to see people that are truly interested in green solutions programs come to the table with a work plan and have a quicker turnaround for that. So that was their decision as far as this program. But at the end of the day, we want to ensure that we do not lose our allocations. So following our CIP roadmap, what we've done is create two work plans that's within this memo for our two alleys that were also part of our CIP. One was originally planned for this year for 2026 and the other uh in the next CIP borrow 2028. Now that we know we have to have these work plans, MMSD will allow not only a work plan to be approved this year, but we have until the end of 2028 to use the funding balance that's remaining of that 347,000. So, as long as we have an approved work plan by MMSD in the village, they're good with us sitting on that revenue uh for the 2028 project and we can actually take advantage of that and design both of them this year because it's funded through MMSD. So,

that's our ultimate goal with the exhibits and the maps that are included within the memo is to do one alley. Realistically, I'm going to say CJ 2027 for construction. Why is it?

Yeah, because by the time you get your design done and your bids, we're not going to be competitive because most contractors would have their schedule filled for the year. It's not at a point with our first alley that we're recommending that it's a make orb breakak situation. It's just part of our incremental improvements is an alley every other year. So, I feel confident of doing design this year, construction in 2027, and then following work plan number two that's listed as 2028. So, with that, we do have uh a slight change from our CIP, but we're able to manage it internally. I just want to make sure I communicate that to the public works uh committee with basically um using some of our street funding that we are not allocated for this year's program to offset where it would be the village cost share for our alley. So there's a way to move funding from road resurfacing project to alleys to make up for that shortfall because MMSD only allows funding for the percentage of the permeable pavers or the green solution versus now that we have cost estimates with uh Clark deets, there's other funding that would not be eligible for costs now that we have more firm numbers of what that village cost share would be. So the breakdown is what included in the memo. Uh the total anticipated cost for design, engineering, contingency, all that good stuff is about 200,000 for the alley uh work plan number one. MMSD would be 119,760 whereas the village cost share would be 84,000. So we had 20,000 allocated originally in our CIP for that alley. So the gap between what we had budgeted with the CIP and what is now projected is 64,000. But again, we feel confident based on what we have within our mill and overlay

program that we could reallocate that so we wouldn't have to shift funds around um and ask for more per se of the village board. So long and short of it is we're accelerating these alleys in order to take advantage of MMSD money. That is correct. I should have just said that. I'm just curious, you know, um we've done a couple alleyways now with uh green solutions and do we know, you know, are the lifespans comparable on the permeable pavers and the the green solutions projects that we're doing to a more traditional alley or roadway? I think maybe CJ, do you comment on that? I I I don't I wouldn't be able to speak from experience on that.

Yeah. So we we've looked at some of your past at prospect those who had to forify that long-term lifespan of the intensive you're going to have more increased maintenance that with the papers um the storage of the stone and all that stuff. Um how we designed them is make sure that the wheel pads aren't concrete on papers for settling stuff. What we're what we are looking at is doing just a little bit tweaking the cross-section so that we can paper settling and all see the tool that manage that better lifespan I mean of the papers of the concrete fast stay the same as long we're trying to design to that's why four feet not 12 14 16 feet of your alley try to manage so that you're not putting it um And worse comes to worse, if they're not maintained, we essentially lose the permeability as oo and not necessarily structure of the alley itself.

Yeah. Okay. The function of the storm. There we go. Thank you. And that was our internal debate between CJ and myself is like we could maybe get more allocated MMSD funding if we make it wider with the permobile, but we didn't want to basically shoot ourselves in the foot with especially our garbage trucks and Yeah, it it really became like we want to make sure the lifespan because we're targeting about 50 years for an alley's lifespan. We didn't want to compromise that as far as what our trucks and vehicles wanted to match the the the pavement that you're using outside of it. That is correct.

Yep. Yep. And that was my big concern. I know we're we're getting a deal with the green solutions funding. I understand the the benefit of permeable pavers is huge, but if you know those were only lasting 20 years instead of 50 years, then that changes the math quite a bit. Yeah. Do we have ideas in mind for the first round of competitive? I think that there's multiple check-ins for competitive funding with MMSD. I know with GIPP program that it's a couple times a year and same with um u their PPI program. I'm not 100% sure about the green solutions if there's multiple cycles per year with that.

Well, and do we know what the new program will look like? They have presented on it. We do have that presentation material. So yes, there's there's um actually metrics that we can follow for both the green solutions program to see how we how competitive we'll be with our application. So that's how they rank municipalities based on those metrics. And there's even different metrics for the GIP. So for whatever reason there's differences between the two different programs, but we've generally been fairly successful with these. Correct.

Yeah. It seemed like and even with these projects, not a lot of questions asked. They're like, "Oh, you're doing another alley. Great." So, it was about a 15-minute conversation with MMSD before we had this conversation with the public works committee. Set an hour up. It's a baby. Yeah. They're very We've tended to be one of the municipalities that actually uses ours, right? That's right.

Yeah. I had changed the guard of what they're trying to do to actions. So, that's why they're trying to find actionable money. So in our case, it may mean that we're only going after money once as opposed to now where we get our allocation. We spend our allocation and then we go after the competitive stuff that's left over. Now we won't have that second round because everything will just be the competitive land. We go

Yep. go through the process. They're going to be the response that I've gotten is that they're going to be equitable distribution back through that competitive process. That's so not one person's always getting it. So you just have to put your If one person is only doing it though, I mean are there many municipalities using it as much as we are? Yeah. So that's that's when we talk here with this defunding it seems like it's part of our way of doing business, right? And it is and it feels like oh but it's it's nothing like

we are more of an outlier than the norm. Yeah. Like also for there are only maybe half a dozen of 27 entity green infrastructure is even worse. I mean people do it just because money is sitting there you know it's been it's a bit of political. So so for us it might actually end up being that we get larger chunks of money for less effort. That's that CJ and I and you know both on both on the sewer and this the green

this is an opportunity to far exceed your ambition that used to be constrained by the annual equalized value so have we started to brainstorm about that at all yes um I won't say too much that's fine I don't want I just want to know I just want to know yes I got a phone call today and I I got something. Okay. I do want to just point out that that's why the CIP is great, right? I want to keep coming back to that because we spent a lot of time and work on that and so we have a plan, right? And so it's more just trying to figure out how can we implement this other funding source into our plans. Yep.

Yep. I would say just as a note, um those funds could never outpace our ambition. I think for you to find a way to spend no matter what. So I've also heard that on the back end of that call you probably 40 miles of alleys, right? I'm surprised every time like like this map pops up. I'm like, "Oh yeah, that is that does exist." Like I drive by I drive by it all the time and you just you know if you don't go down the alleyway it's it's very easy to just overlook it. 2027 alleyway one of those that I that because I've only seen it from over. It's just one of those things you just see

drive through it. Somebody uses it every All right. Uh do we need a Are we good on this or do we need a motion? I can't remember. We do need a motion. This will come back when we have a formal work plan and then uh Clark De's design and engineering agreement will go to the village board. So we need this as an action. I make a motion to recommend the village board approve a 347,08259 in MMSD green solution funds to support the desired I'm sorry design and construction of two alleys as shown in the attached memo. I'll second. All right. All in favor? I.

All right. Moving on. Uh public works report. I mean essentially if please do you have questions? Are there things you want to highlight for sure? We started leaf collection today. Yay. Bueno. So we got beyond Silver Springs. We started on the north and we're already uh past Silver Spring both north. You guys started early, too. You Yeah. Well, it's our traditional route, I would say, as far as start time that we're out there like 4:00 or 5 in the morning. One thing to note in some of our new um temporary safety there leave stuff behind them, especially over like on KFax. Okay. So, just that we are going to have to figure out a way to

I have to bring the back over there. Yeah. To note that that's probably not the only place that we have that. Sorry, I didn't hear that. Is that about Marbor and Kofax? Yep. Yeah. I have a problem if you're driving south on Marboro. Yeah. Um, and I know this came up like two or three months ago in here and everybody said that it was great idea that but I've been driving a lot this winter down and then dropping kids off and when the kids are going to school, you know, and all that and if you're coming south now on Marboro and you drop the kids off and then you want to make a right onto Kfax,

uh, which would now be going west, you you can't really do do that if somebody is coming east on KFax and a lot of people do and they want to make a right turn because now there's kids crossing here they got to wait and you're on Marboro and you got to wait even though you don't have to until they can make their right turn unless it and I got a relatively small car and I don't want to chance it. I'm getting real close when I make that turn. Sure. Uh, and and if you got probably a normalsized car, uh, a little bigger than mine, you're not going to be able to make that right turn. So, I think Maxine's working on design. We went over that last week.

Oh. Oh, you did. Okay. With with that specific area. Maxine, I think we're shrinking that in even more with the KFax side with that right turn. Yeah. So from your southbound to westbound turn maxim was that like maybe two feet or so from the existing curve or three feet southbound to Marorrow. So you're going south on Marorrow. Now you want to make a right turn going on KFax

and there's other people coming. They're on KFax. They want they want to make a right turn or left turn onto Marorrow. Uh and they're coming from the west going east. Uh so uh now you c the Marboro people can't turn if they're waiting there and for maybe you know kids going across the street because it's a major crosswalk right there you know so I don't think shrinking that is going to help that problem. Yeah, I think it would. Making it narrower would make it making that closer to the original sidewalk, not so wide of a turn because there's So, you're shrink I'm sorry. I thought you're shrinking the w I thought you were shrinking the roadway. You're shrinking the bump out. Correct. You're going to give it more room. I was like, "Wait a minute. Don't make that narrower."

Yeah. Don't want to do that. Got it. That makes sense. So, is that correct? Maxi was what my assumption was that the Kolfax side isn't going to be where the delineators are. We're going to bring that closer to the curb so that turning radius isn't so tight with your traffic going east and west on KFax. Correct. Okay. So, yeah. Okay. You're you're ahead of me. No, I was talking about the fact that the leaves are all piled up behind the Oh, now they're you were talking about something different, aren't I? But that's okay. I just I just heard that to bring it up. Absolutely.

We're working on it. We'll be there tomorrow. Um, just moving on to the other items that here, ashtree replacement, planting, etc.

The one piece I'm curious about is the engineer contract with WCTEL for $35,000. What What are we contracting them to do for us? that that's an annual agreement that's been in before my time with it's a time and material service that typically is that much as far as what what we pay wtel for designing uh for our programs for the EAB program for removal replacement the injection components they also do our tree health assessments uh throughout the village and manage our GIS of all of our trees so it's administratively as as well as assisting with the the bidle level documents and some construction management services within there. So this is an annual program with WCTEL and I believe we've been using WCTEL since even before like with the kickoff of the EAB program. So this is this is nothing new I would say. It's maybe just not been documented.

Yeah. Is that inclusive or exclusive the 215 project budget? Like is the budget Yeah, that's part of the that's part of the 215. It's not separate. Just seems like a lot of money.

And I will say they do a phenomenal job. U they they really do. It makes our lives a lot easier to manage. They have high quality service. Uh great customer service. And uh based on the report, they're looking at cost savings measures of even the injections, how to save 80 plus thousand over a 5year period by reducing our injections. uh where we know we're going to be removing 105 ash trees at as we have been over the last x number of years. We're getting close to meeting our 10% goal of ash trees. And then within the 5year period of removals, it's about 525 trees that we know we need to get down to. We are stopping the treatment and it'll still be fine for the tree. It's not going to be a health or safety issue for humans or branches or anything else. But why treat for additional insecticide when you know that you can identify those trees on the front end and have cost-saving methods. So WTEL is helping us with that whole entire program too.

I mean and to that end if if we're basically going to stop treating trees for five years we should identify those like that that's an experiment right to see how long does the trees go without treating it. Surprisingly enough, there as before of last year since the EAB came into White Fish Bay, there was a batch of trees that were not treated that we never had on our treatment plan because we knew that they were going to be removed. Oh. So, Oh. So, so this has been a thing, but now we're This is like a 2.0 version where we're using the rest. How are those trees doing? Yeah, they're they're removed. Oh, they're gone now.

We took them down. So this this is the 525 remaining trees that we're going to.

You see what I'm trying to get to? It's you know here for a while we were doing treatment every other year. Now we're trying to do it every third year. It would be interesting to see our little science experiment of what happens to those trees after five years of not treating them. Um it it's it's it's always been painful since 2010. I mean, we're now on our 16th year of spending money on chemicals as an insurance policy, and it's always been on my mind to be like, I wonder how long you could go before a tree would actually start to be infected. And so, here we're going to have a fiveyear um and I and I would be curious if there are other municipalities who have run six years, seven years to see how long they could actually go without treatment.

And I did ask that question again. Just want to put that out there to the scientists and the arborists and walk people and they do not recommend to go beyond the three-year cycle for the ones that we know we want for serving. Don't I I did ask that question. So that's why I'm interested in the this little science projects.

Um I said one question. I uh I brought my dog to hounds around town this weekend to get uh some grooming and nail clips. Uh they did a great job and it's going gang busters over there. So um that's really good. But I then had to go to Sendex and I was able to kind of walk through the intersection where we're going to be um putting street lights. And now that Sendex has diverted traffic to behind the store, I feel like the traffic patterns are probably more akin to what they will be after the new development. Not exactly, but it's very clear that a four-way stop there really does make or like a street way street light really does make a lot of sense there. And I feel like that intersection has become more dangerous.

Yeah. Since uh the construction has really picked up. And I'm just curious, you know, I know we're going to be starting the redevelopment and public improvements soon, but is there a way to maybe prioritize that intersection um if it makes sense? because it is uh it's it's tricky getting across the street and you you know you can walk two blocks up or a block and a half down, but a lot of people still try to cross it and it's uh it's just a lot going on there.

Short answer is they got to do the utility ground up first. Okay. I think that that note make out of it for the contractors to look at opportunities and ways to make it safer. Even now the team will start incorporating some Even if there was just like a temporary, you know, you see them in school crossings sometimes, some sort of like temporary yield sign that goes in the middle so drivers can slow down a bit. Yeah, I think I mean this is something you talk about in a day or so

and it uh you know it's it's the stuff we've talked about forever. You know sometimes people uh want to just park and get out but then their car is pretty close to the intersection then you can't see around it and it's just it's just a lot more going on there compared to the last time I had walked that intersection. And uh I think it might be in our best interest to to take some sort of public safety measure in the short term. I think it's that everything's condensed. Well, it's that everything's condensed. I think it's that um you know, they they're just divert Yeah. diverting traffic where it used to go in a couple different places. Now it's all kind of coming through one

one area. And um and we knew that was going to happen, which is why we're going to put stop lights there, street lights. Um it's they're just not up yet. So, we're kind of yeah, in this weird nebulous of not safe. I know this is a ridiculous, it's not even a solution. It's just a ridiculous stop gap measure of I know some communities will have these little flags and a basket. We'll have two baskets on the corners and you can pick up a flag so that you feel safer as you walk across. I realize that is a ridiculous solution. Um, however, it might behoove us to do that for six months. Bayside has some. Yeah. On Lake Drive by by uh Bayside Gardens.

Some cardboard cutouts of children that you just put on the street to scare the Jesus out of them. The little turtles. Yeah, the turtles. Slow down. Green turtles. Is there anything we could paint just I think we we should look into that. think about it because you know there's some temporary things that hopefully Oh yeah that's only like there's the opportunity to paint or whatever that's going to be ripped up any

yeah and I think it's good to have the conversation because that that project right now is slated towards the end of their overall scope so starting early July end mid August. That's very preliminary. We haven't released the schedule, but I guess the point is it's not it's not early based on the sequence needs and so probably doing something. I just get worried too because there's so many kids over there who are either candy or magnesium or school isn't even out yet. Schools out and they're coming either from Dominican or Well, yeah. So, it just I was uh yeah, it just felt like it something needed to be done. Yep.

In the short term. Anything else on the project updates? All right, then I would take a motion. Uh motion to adjourn. Second. Anyone? I have a second. All right. All in favor? I thank you very much. Thank you. So,