County Council - Regular Meeting

No, that's good. He's fine. He's fine. $3.

They they can hear you Yeah.

I can't hear you.

Can you hear me now? I can hear you now. Thank you. How are you? Good. A little bug or something I decided not to share with everybody, so I'm staying home today. It's probably a good idea. There's been a lot of bugs going around even down here. I'll bet. Fortunately, we've steered clear so far. Can I ask I want to ask you, Judy? Yes. So, so this is his first time to do this. So, do you keep yours unmuted unless you want to say something when the meeting's going on? How do you handle the the mute unmute for

I leave it on, but if Gary or the dogs start barking, then I just hit the mute button. Oh, okay. [laughter] So, so as long as it's quiet in here, you can leave it open and that way it's a two-way conversation. Is that Yeah, that's correct. Yes, it's possible for a two-way. It is. All right. Absolutely. All right. Well, we're both new at this. I' It's like face. It's like Zoom, but not exactly. So, um if you see anything he needs to know, just tell him. Okay.

Oh, I'm sure he's fine. And I, you know, I had to have Bill set my computer up so that I could, not my computer, but my iPad so that I could do this. So, I'm certainly no expert at that. You know, I got I I touched something last time. That's why I'm hesitant to touch anything and it threw me off and then it took a while before they got me back on. So, it's like

I know where the mute button is. That's all I'm going to deal with. If I can't see people, that's okay. As long as they can see me. You're good. Okay. If you feel like if I feel like swearing at somebody, I'll go ahead and do it. You feel like you're gonna say something inappropriate. Oh, if I if I feel like swearing, you know, I will, too. I told I told y'all if you feel like you're gonna say something inappropriate, just hit the mute button. Well, you know, we can't hit the mute button when we're at the meeting. So,

yeah. Yeah.

Did you get the agenda printed off and all that? Yeah. Okay, good. Oh, you have your your agenda here. 17. Yes.

Well, I have another.

I remember having a bug last spring and wearing a a mask. I think it was last spring. Maybe it was the spring before because I didn't want to contaminate everybody either.

What I've got is somewhat uncomfortable and there are times I'd like to share it with all of them. [laughter] I understand. Can you hear what they're saying, Jenny? No. Can you? No. So, I assume they've got us muted that way or some way. Yeah, I'm assuming so.

They'll open it up.

Yeah. If not, what I usually do is I text someone and say, you know, I can't hear you. And then they do whatever it is on their end. advantage. It just changed the picture.

It looks like we just got all kinds of people up there.

Yeah, I see Ed Bodilia. I know. I can't see. Let him out.

forgot the ice cream. You said that last time. You're now chunk. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm thinking turn. You guys ready? do this. Yep. He's all over his brother.

Right. All right. I've got 5:30. They're going to pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America Yes. Everybody has the agenda. Do we have any changes to the agenda? Anyone?

Uh I've got a formality issue. Okay. Um when Sandy when we take a vote as a council body and you're the service of order guy shouldn't we somebody motions somebody seconds discussion or have a discussion then it's a motion and a second and then somebody goes you know all in favor and whoever's in favor raises their hand. All opposed. Everybody at the same time raises their hand. Once we do that, then Sandy can do her roll call.

I second. I'll make a motion. That would be the process going forward rather than starting out and doing. Should we consult with our Robert's rules consultant sitting right there? Well, by by Roberts, what we what we do is a motion. Somebody makes a motion, we second it, and then there's debate discussion on it. Right. Yeah. And then when you as the president once we have discussion, I'll just all in favor and then those in favor and then we'll do those opposed. Then after that, then Sandy clearly could go through and then make sure she documents how each number

agreement on it. Yep. Sounds good by speaking up there. Robert says you should speak at the mic. didn't have.

Yeah, Dwayne Parson's here. Uh I don't have my book with me, but uh it's almost kind of redundant to do have Sandy do her call after you. The president can call for the vote and it can either be the verbal or can be the the written type, but verbal works. And all in favor? I. And then any opposed? And nay is not a word. Remember that. What is it? No. No. Okay. No. No. Nay is something they stated in Robert's rules. Nay is something horse does. [laughter] Okay.

If we do the show of hands and then the roll call. Is that is it one or the other? Yeah. Both. Both. Acceptable. I think one or the other. You know, it's kind of redundant to do it twice unless you're recording who voted yes, who voted no, and then Yeah. All is I'm thinking of Sandy because she's got to do the Yeah. And so she's, you know, we do that. I'll look it up. And it goes down pretty quick and it would be easy for her just to go through and document it. Yeah. The right if she calls it office, you know. So you okay with just going with real pump? No. I I would prefer to do it the Okay, everybody okay with that? Which one? What? Show hands.

Still fashionable. Show hands. Yeah, show hands verbal and stand clarification to make sir. Then we Santa can Yeah, one other clarification question. There's a hand out there. Got a question for him or go ahead. Yeah, because I can't hear. relationship with me.

Um, Pam Gold, in meetings that I have been on historically in the past, if if the hand vote was taken and everyone is the same sign, either all are in favor or all are opposed, that's all it's meaning. But if there's a difference, if you've got one name, you know, the rest are eyes or vice versa, that's when you might want to call for

quick question for Dwayne. I mean um and that's kind of maybe a suggestion to the president too on votes like approval of minutes you know just real minor technical things where no one like adjournment I would just ask that you don't work Sy's hand to do a voice vote and a roll call just do a voice vote so she doesn't have to write it every time work section the yeah minutes and approval of minutes and ajourn Just yeah, just show hands.

Right. And there's no roll call needed in that case. Yeah. Good. And since you're adopting some of them but not all of them for the book that's that thick, uh, long as Mr. President tells you which way you're going to go is Darren's rules, which is, you know, that can suffice. But the consistency will work.

Yeah. [clears throat] And that was in that that summary that I sent you guys after the first meeting and it's still it's still a work in pro in progress and something that probably be picked up our next work session discuss them and see how we want to go. Thank you Dwayne. Uh have a motion to accept the agenda. So move second. Second [clears throat] motion second. All in favor?

I have the minutes from regular meet our regular meeting of January 20th and our work session in February 5th. Everybody get a chance to look at those motion. Y move we approve both. Move we approve both. I'll second it. Have a motion and second. All in favor? I motion to approve the minutes. Yeah. All in favor? I. All opposed.

Accepted [clears throat] sports. Do we have any 2027 budget concerns? Julie, not anymore. We're getting them fixed. Anything in particular? Um, we we do have the Everybody see the proposed 27 budget schedule that maybe sent to us? Everybody get to see that?

No. Make sure we get that sent back out as right now. Have an update on the Indiana ROI. Yeah. [clears throat]

So, last meeting council wanted to just quick update on the timeline and and the process for ROI uh the regional economic development district that we've been uh in discussions about for some time. It's about a once a consultant is selected uh by ROI, it's about a 12 month process um of kind of launch, broad engagement, analysis, strategy development and validation, drafting and review and then a a big portion of public engagement. will include a couple dozen um stakeholder group interviews, a regionwide community survey, multiple county listening sessions, regional economic forum. I think that's, you know, half day or day, uh additional stakeholder focus groups, and then some monthly steering committee meetings. And so it's kind of a layered approach. You've got a handout in front of you uh that kind of gathers input from business leaders, workforce partners, local officials, residents to shape a datainformed communitydriven regional plan. And so this whole plan that is has been funded is is designed to just gather our local community input and put a package together that we think would be good for us and the region and then ask the economic development authority agency to the EDA to uh approve that and then it would come back to the the local elected officials for ultimate sign off. So, there's multiple checks along the way where we could say, "Hey, we're not interested. We think this is not working based on community input and uh lots of opportunity, lots of opportunity for

public engagement." So, as you see there, so um I'm looking forward to to finding out who our our consultant is going to be and and getting to work on that. Thank you. business. Have we received any more submissions for RDC appointments? No, we just re refut it back in the paper again today with the um

like that right out of my head. We have an ad advertisement for Petboa and for one because Judy Simpson Wright is stepping down. So, we're going to have to have a new appointment there.

The commissioner's budget change ordinance that that did not make it on the gateway in time for us to vote on it today. Correct. But it has been it has been put on there. It's getting put on there. Okay. I've been working on my AFR first. It's due at the end of the month. Yeah. Are we going to Is it going to be there on time for the It'll be on time for the meeting for the work session meeting for next regular meeting. We have to have 14 days. So, people pushing it.

Is that causing any problems for the commissioner's office at the moment? Yeah. Okay. salary orbits. We have that and everybody received a copy of I sent it out all at the same time. So, everyone, y'all should have got a copy in your emails. Yeah. And it's all pretty much accepted, approved by the departments as such as far as we know.

Yes. And we're going to get the FS training sometime. Any idea? Sometime in March possibly hopefully. Yeah. Okay. FS training the numerical value. I know exactly what the is factor evaluation. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

And with regards to the salary ordinance, [clears throat and cough] I have some issues with it. I've got a number of issues. Number one, I don't know how much red ink we're writing right now for 2026, specifically the general fund. This is not we're in the red. That means we're negative, right? So, budget deficit. Um, number two, I got your Excel spreadsheet, but I'm not going to go in through and spend four, five, six hours having to pil through through, you know, that amount of information that's in there. And I guess my primary concern is that salary ordinance is I have no idea of where we are as far as what our 2025 I know what our 2025 labor costs were, but I have no idea what our 2026 labor costs are projected to be. And the reason I don't know that because there were in somebody and then I had no idea who did it or how it was done but there were changes made in that factor evaluation system on job positions. Job positions were increased. I don't know how many job positions.

You're breaking Jim's breaking up. It still isn't any better.

We can't hear you. Sound went down, kids. Yep. Sounds dead.

He started out good. Crazy. [laughter]

No, we're not hearing anything out here.

It's very It's very broken and staticky. I'm pretty sure Jim broke it. I'm gonna try something. We've only had one exact discussion.

Good. Can Jim repeat what he said? I'm sorry, Jim. I don't want to, but Joel and I are interested because I have concerns as well.

All right, let's let me see if I can just start from the beginning and I'll try to be as quick as I possibly can. First of all, my memories serves me best. We had an executive session. We met with Wagner, Irwin, and Sheileely. They gave us a packet of information which I still have. We walked through the factory evaluation system, couple hours. Um, but we as a council body have never had a three-hour discussion focused specifically on this factor evaluation system and the entire labor cost of the county. Now, why am I bringing this up? Well, I'm bringing it up because with the labor cost and the employee benefits, you know, we're approximately 11.5 million. I had a conversation today with the treasur's office and you know, they told me the last there's 26 pays. The last pay period it was $197,000. Now that $197,000 that is net that's net what actually gets paid to all the employees through A which is the automated clearing house. All right [clears throat] that does not include local taxes federal taxes you know per at 11.2% 2%, you know, unemployment, workers comp, okay? All the stuff that gets stacked on top of that. And to give you some scope, you know, I've calculated that a $42,000 annual salary, by the time you step it up and add everything in, you're really at $66,000 a year. So my my my concern is that [clears throat] you know you take the the general fund for example 10 million which is the forecasted revenue

for 2026 which we're over now. We're right we're at eight because we didn't w in the black that much in October when we passed it. [laughter] So, we're right where it end right now. And I don't have any. We've never as a collectively as a council body taken a deep dive had a three-hour discussion on this back evaluation system. Kind of tear it apart, look at it, right? And then what changes were made from 25 to 26 because I know someone or was told someone went we went in someone went in and you all somebody made decisions and there were specific employees specific well not I'll back up specific job descriptions with specific departments and someone made decisions to increase that cost above and beyond what was based off 2025 pay rates.

So for example, I have no idea. Did we increase it? Did that increase the labor cost over 25 by 100 grand, 50 grand, 200 grand? I have no idea. I have no idea of what amount um you know how we made the decision to increase these job positions within these various different departments. I don't know the total number of employees. I don't I don't know that. The other concern I have as well is that if I remember correctly and pulling from memory is that when we talked to WIS [clears throat] you know they had targeted and made a recommendation and I think we paid them 45 grand to do this made a recommendation that target was to be 50% external. So they went out and looked at other peer counties, right, and come up with and and developed a composite number and said, "Okay, here's where you are. This is where you need to work towards." But we as a council body have never looked at that and said, "Okay, if we were to implement that factory evaluation system based off the recommendation of WIS, it's going to cost the county, let's say, $800,000 an additional cost." Well, now you got to add FICA, you know, everything else on top of that, right? [laughter] And what I did do some quick math to give you an idea, I believe the general fund covers approximately 25 departments and about 66% of the labor costs come out of the general fund. So my concern is is that we collectively as a body never sit down and take the time that's really required for us to go after do the heavy mental lifting really evaluate this system. So all of us are competent with this factor evaluation system and we truly are working to try to understand

you know where are we how do we move forward how do we try to implement this because right now I know for a fact because data I think you know we're right in I mean we are running budget deficit for 2026 okay and this we haven't even got through February so that doesn't include any continued additional appropriations throughout the year. I have no idea where we finished 1231 of 2025. I don't know if we're in red, ink. I have no idea what the reserve cash reserve balances of all the primary funds, [clears throat] you know, and as a council member u and I've been public with this on Facebook. Um, you know, I I'm a taxpayer and I'm self-employed and every quarter I have to write a check to the United States Treasury and the Indiana Department of Revenue. And every quarter I know exactly how much money I'm giving Brown County, okay? Because I have to write checks. I got to sign them. I got to mail them in. And so to me, [clears throat] you know, when I look at the state statutes for the council body, you know, the state said we are responsible for fiscal policy and we should we do everything we can to make sure every year we are run budget surpluses, not deficits. Right? Because the challenge is is is I look I've done it. I've got it in my office. I went back from 2024 and gateway goes back 14 years. The last 14 years period ending 1231 to 2024. We were eight out of the 14 years in red ink. We're right in budget deficits. So as a council person, it concerns me greatly. All right? And it concerns me because if we don't get ahead of this, all right, it's not that

we, you know, we have money in the bank with the treasures on us. We all know that, right? But we cannot continue to run budget deficits, ignore it, burn down our cash reserves. Because my concern is simply this. At what point does it happen in 27? Does it happen in 28? Does it happen in 29? At what point does the conversation come up that we need to increase income taxes by 50 basis points and start to push it over 3% because we're 2.554 I believe right now. We can't go any higher on property tax because we're already at the max level. So what I'm not comfortable with is I'm really not interested in telling the taxpayers, hey, we've over spent, so we need to get more money from you and you got to live on less because that's essentially what we're doing. [clears throat] And so I'm just voicing it now because that's where my head is at.

Aren't we actually building our cash? How can [snorts] we build cash reserves if we're running budget deficits? Because we're not spending money we don't have. Yes, we are. We're not. [laughter] Are we spending money we don't? No. That I'm aware of. There it is, Darren. It's here. Black and white. It's right here. This was [clears throat] the budget that we passed. Right. What you're talking about? No. No. I've got it right here, Darren. What you're talking about are additional appropriations. No, I'm not. It's outside of the budget. I see this passing budget.

No, no, it's right here. We we we hired Greedy Financial. Jerry Hickman's a CPA. He's got 15 years experience working with municipal governments. All right. They forecasted our revenues. All right. For 2026 at a scooch over 10 million, 10,32,71 at that time on the budget that we passed in October for the to meet the November 1 deadline. The expenses in the general fund total $9,856,663. All right, that was a budget surplus of $176,000. That's it. That's all we had. Now, if you don't trust these numbers, then I guess we got a problem. But the this is I'm looking at and he's got all the funds here. So, what we did is we had to go back and we had to reappropriate 120 grand in the HSA, did we not? That was appropriate that.

No, it was not in the budget. I took them out of the budget. Right. It was appropriate. If I have a $176,000 surplus. Okay. I got I got a proposal for you. We table the We tabled the salary today. We have our work session coming up on Thursday. We'll get Rey in here. We'll spend the entire three hours going over the Is that good? Yeah. Perfect. I want to say something. Judy has something to say.

Um, I voice similar concerns. I feel really uncomfortable that a few people decided that there would be changes made without consulting the the whole council. and some uh people were changed from um excluded, meaning no overtime, that kind of thing, to now being able to get overtime. Those are statutes based upon the federal laws. And WHIS was very clear on who's excluded, who's exempt, and those types of things. And I have a problem when we go in and we just all of a sudden change that because now people can get overtime and that's just going to cost us more. That's just one of my concerns. You know, was WHIS involved in this? You know, I'm not okay with the salary ordinance. It's all I have to say.

Okay. Can I say something? Yes, ma'am. And my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is we we debated going staying with the old salary rates. We decided, no, let's get in new footing and put the WHI stuff in place. doesn't. We knew it wasn't perfect and we found out that some verbiage in there says a supervisor or manager implies things we didn't understand or realize. That's why we want to go in and and sort it out. Find out what what needs to be done. The commissioners have the job descriptions. We as a council have the comm exec the the category

categories. Yeah. So these work, Jim's accurate in a lot of that and these weren't. So we needed to go do it, see the implications in detail, but it was our choice to step into it. We knew there would be some problems going along. Yeah, that's what we said from the start. Implementing implementing the FAS, we going to be a

and I was part of of of stating that because we we need to get away from that. But if we're going to do it, we need to do it according to the guidelines that WHIS sets up. Otherwise, we're opening a can of worms with a bunch of other employees who are going to want overtime because so and so because another position is getting overtime. When we get away from their guidelines and statutes and laws, we are opening ourselves up in a can of worms. So my suggestion is we call WIS in again and we talk to them about office manager off administrator whatever those concerns are and let them work through it. They're the professionals. We are not.

That's already in place. That's where we're going as soon as we can. They couldn't do it in February. Yeah. And what I what I'm what I'm advocating for is that we as a council body All right. Now we've got four months until July 1st rolls around. True. And you know that goes by real fast. Is it not? All right. [clears throat] So because the labor cost is the most, you know, that is the largest cost that we have as a county government.

Yeah. Okay. that we as a council body if it takes six hours two special sessions I mean I don't care how much time it takes us but I think it's extremely important for all of us

to be on be on the same page to where we've taken the time to not have WIS or have someone else you know tell us what to think but rather for us to take the time to think it through to work to comprehend that factor evaluation. So we thoroughly we all really understand it. we understand the labor cost per department because the other issue too keep in mind we you know we still have not addressed um and I'm not quite sure what we did with regards to stipens for the law enforcement center but you know there was $183,000 stipens that we did here last year uh because Brad was under some heavy pressure on his labor what's going on in the state um you know and then we had the problem with department of corrections and taking forever to try to get any refunds. Well, we need, you know, to me, we still really haven't addressed the, you know, the the sheriff's department, dispatch, the jail employees, right? And and so we really need to me go through and do our due diligence and take the time to really understand what we passed and understand what's in it. Because if we can do that now and get get, you know, get on it on the front end, then we can be prepared for the 2027 budget. Can we not?

Yeah. And that's what I'd like to see us do. We passed it and we had along with what you're saying and we set up a committee of three people. Judy is one that came out the other two, you know, talked about it to actually carry it forth and implement it. So we don't have to rely on this as we go forward. But we do need we do realize we need training on the numerical system and uh verbiage in there what it applies. Yeah. But I think we're all smart enough. We are we're smart enough and if we spend some time talking it through then we can figure it out and go okay yeah I understand this. I understand how we're doing it. Yeah. The only thing that I might take away from WIS, you know, the the challenge because I I'm again I'm pulling from memory um is that the one thing WIS did give us is that let's say we create you know a new there's a new position that's created um you know that's created and so we create this new position and we write up the job description and [clears throat] do we have the formula to where we can score that job description to come up with the scoring system to determine what the compensation should be for that employee or does that mean the county has to be dependent upon WIS every time that we go if something changes we've got to go to WIS we have to pay them right and and you know they'll write the job description they'll calculate what that pay grade should that a private [clears throat] for that system. Uh to me, I don't have a problem out leveraging WIS, but at the same time, I think the council members need to be educated and we as a body need to understand it and and and really be in position if we need to do it ourselves, we can. We're not dependent on WIS,

right? That's the purpose of having come in and have them come in and give us give us guidance on what and so the classifications we have right yeah but let's but we've not taken the time that I think that we should to do our due diligence to as a group as a group because I have a lot of questions I have that I don't have answers to. All right. I think we we do that and I think we actually expanded it beyond the commissioners and council. We're discussing it at least to expand it to the department heads and so they all know how it's done. So they know how to create their proper content.

Yeah. department has coming in to talk to Julie about the there were some there were some minor changes that they that they suggested because for one yeah table the special session there were some some extra I'll make some extrees from 26 over to 2025 pay grades all that stuff down. How much is that increased? So, we've got

Yeah, I'll I'll get that to you. We did we did have a meeting when we implemented this of we looked at all the all the different levels of change on this. See the most was going to cost us what we went to the external it was going to cost us $840ome,000 and we said we can't do that. So, we looked at [laughter] at the we looked at the current levels at we ended up going with the But could we could we move towards that direction over the next three or four years? Yeah, that's the plan. You know what I'm saying?

Well, how what we implemented what we implemented for anybody that was lower than the internal, they went up to the internal. This is how they do. All right. I think all these things are in place awareness. Let's just move forward. Okay. Yeah. Anybody want to make a motion to table the salary ordinance until our next book session and then we will spend we will devote session three hours to answer all your questions answer your questions Judy Julie excuse me

are there any invitations to tableling at this point [clears throat] so I'll make a motion table. I was going to make a motion. You can [laughter] make I don't care. Make a motion. You make the motion. Somebody do it. Go ahead, Jim.

Move it. I'm on a motion that we table the salary ordinance that we move that to the special session on the first Thursday in the month of March at 9:00 a.m. and that we use the entire three hours to focus specifically as a council body on the factory [clears throat] evaluation system and our labor cost. One point about that I don't know that FBS WHIS will be in place to train us as to the implications of it at that point. I'm not so concerned with that. I'm not

I'm not discuss I think we you know we're all smart people. We get our stuff. We all have the paperwork to Wave. Do we not everybody still have that file that they gave us? But I don't think they gave anything as to the correlation of the numerical values. They gave other things to let's go through it. Let's spend an hour. Let's spend let's let's talk about it.

Yeah. Yeah, let's let's let's identify let's identify any shortfalls, you know, let's look at it, say, well, here's a gap that we need WIS to help with and make a list of what specifically did we need WIS to help us with it. Fine. Then tell them spec, you know, tell the story specifically what we what we need help with that following special session meeting. continue on because to me that you know if we start now u you know I've got several items you know on the budget that you know for example you know I'll sweep this body of work on the compensation stack evaluation system and we kind of work through that where we understand where we are kind of put it you know frame it in context for 2027's budget because it's four months away you know then we need to go through and look at what we're spending on legal fees as accounting

what did we spend last year with uh Rei, what was the breakdown of the legal fees, the total bill, right? And we need to look in our professional advisors and some of these line item expenses and and to understand, you know, how much are we let me give an example, group medical, okay, we budgeted 2.7 million for group medical. That was based off of Apex. All right, that was their number. All right. Now, what we probably ought to do is have a meeting that through [clears throat] all of us understand what makes up that 2.7 million.

Okay? Because that's another big expense. And then furthermore, once we all understand, because this is where we could have Perry come in, walk us through, you know, each little piece of medical plan. And then us we as a council draft a policy of how we're going to fund group medical each and every year. So for example, do you set it [laughter] up by 15% cost of living for inflation because how cost increase you know how much are we going to maintain? We voted on a resolution a couple years ago to I think you know try to maintain at least you know a million should we have a million five in reserves just in case to protect ourselves. So we don't have a policy in writing. So every budget year when it rolls around, we can simply look at our policy, follow our policy, this is how much we're defended and it's over. We can discuss that at a later date, but they don't ever have an opportunity. We don't have an opportunity to discuss. Okay. But that's outside the scope of the motion. Okay. Could I reread the motion? All right. The [clears throat] motion simply is we table the salary conversation. We put that on the special session meeting on the first Thursday of March, whatever that date is at 9:00. We're going to use the three hours to discuss that factor evaluation system and we're going to discuss it in the context of labor the total labor cost for 26 so that we can start talking about 27's budget. All right. Would you would you consider friendly amendment?

Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Agree with you. We need to talk about the FBS system. I do not think we will see a new position created in the county for the foreseeable future. So, I don't know. We need to spend a ton of time figuring out how to grade new positions, that sort of thing. I would like to spend that time on the changes that were made that we are not aware of. Focus on that. I would also like to walk and shoot at the same time and add time for internal control discussion and assignment of duties as well as budget preparations and kick the health insurance conversation to the following health uh work session if that works. So

could I restate a friendly amendment for you? Okay. Uh amended motion would be to table salary or ordinance and put on the agenda for an upcoming work session a discussion about the following three things. One salary ordinance particularly focusing on changes that were recently made to grading as well as fully burdened budget impacts. This is a long motion for three things.

Summarize the motion into a a sentence. Um that actually was a sentence. It was a run on. So here's the motion. Table salary ordinance add it to the next work session agenda along with internal controls and budget preparations for 2027. Just a motion to table the salary ordinance discussion for upwork session meeting to have a full discussion of changes and where we are. That was not my amendment. [laughter]

First we have to get the whole [laughter] So what do you have Sandy? You don't want to know what I have [laughter] [clears throat]

internal controls and I didn't get to the third. The question I have is though if we're going to spend the entire hours going over the salary or all the with the changes that were made are we going to have time to build into the internal control because that's another eight hour discussion. I mean I think separate from the topic that Jim had made a motion for.

I I just think we can we have to more than one thing at a time. We cannot as much as I love spend many many hours talking about the FS system. I think we should also allocate time to talk about these other also. But the the purpose of tableing this discussion is so we can have a full discussion of the salary ordinance to get it understood by every member of council so we can finally vote to approve it. [snorts] And if [clears throat] that takes all three hours, I don't want to cut that discussion short because we have something else. The entire meeting was proposed be devoted to salary ord getting it voting cleared and done.

Okay. The only other thing along with Scott is is we do need to start talking about internal control. It is coincident with I know it's the next thing on there. So I'm just saying we do need to begin to address it, put it in place rather than push it down the Would you kind of kind of make a compromise here? So let's do two hours on salary control and 30 minutes on internal controls and 30 minutes on but 2027 budget preparation that [laughter] let's just let's just do this. [clears throat] How about we do this? Let's just go back. Well, what we have is we have a motion and a second. We have a motion for

Hold on. We have a motion for an amendment. Is there a second to the to the amendment? So, I'll address that motion for the amendment dies. So, what we have is a motion and a second.

Yeah. So, we're just gonna So, the motion is real simple. We're going to table the the salary ordinance and we're gonna spend three hours on the first Thursday of March and we're going to talk about the salary ordinance the FDS system and what we can do before the meeting is if we all have questions and then we can submit it to the president to the president. I'll give them to you and you can do what you want to with them and and and then we'll just address [clears throat] that because Scott I think what will happen as we start walking through then you know when you say internal controls I think policy having establishing policies on specific issues and so we can kind of keep a tab of issues that conversations that may pop up and go that's an area that we need a policy on this is an area so that we can facilitate to that conversation on that Thursday, but it's primarily focused on this on labor costs 2026 factor evaluation system, you know, and do it in the context. I'm not saying we're going to talk about we're going to think as we look at it, have a conversation. This is a really long motion. So, let me just back up make the motion that we table this and put it on the special session meeting and that's it. That's my motion. Can we vote please?

Yes, we have a motion to second. All in favor? Say I I opposed yes. Judy, Scott, yes. Gary, yes. Patrick, yes. Joel, yes. Jim, yes. Thank you.

I was gonna address that said that we on on our website [clears throat] it list that we have a special work session meeting for this Thursday. Yeah, I don't know how I felt put on there. Yeah, and that's that is an error. I would like to state publicly that that is an error. There is no work session meeting for this Thursday. I'll remove that. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. [cough and clears throat] And if we leave it okay internal control standards distinction, do you have anything on that?

[laughter] Um, I think we're pretty much I think that documented the last years.

Got it. Got it. Got it.

So, I I think I shared with everybody the 12 year analysis of internal controls. pay questions asked me. Um, and to the point I heard today, it's really about policy. What policy do you want to put in place, right? And, um, I introduced a something people may be familiar with if you work with it much. Um, I introduced doing a swim lane and that swim lane just is a very simple. Okay, how do you fill in your page? How do you fill in your time card? Where does it go next? What happens here? and then get grasp of the current process and then go back and say okay where are the weaknesses and where do we need to put in a control system okay and then voting to approve that policy so there's there's uh several major cycles obviously there's payroll cycle there's the the claims or dispersements cycle um that I think we need to look at the revenue cycle and make sure we understand um those cycles capital is also in Um, but I'm kind of looking at what's the most critical ones, what has the most effect on our control system. And I think there's a sense of we really want to have this in place uh mid year 2026. It's going to be tough, but I think uh I think it'll be a good learning experience for everybody to go through and do swim and understand that. it. I think what you just described in terms of the flow of money in money out more kind of auditors probably oversight

it is and then the capital assets would be where the commissioners it is.

And so I'm focus on what the council is responsible for and is where I'd like us to talk. Could you kind of give us your your analysis of that? What we need to do in that though is our internal controls are how those all work together because we are one government body. Right. Right. Right. So, as far as is I'm not that worried about the capital. I think there's a process there. It is generally a semi minor factor unless you don't pay attention to it. But really, we're looking at let's hit the payroll cycle, let's hit the dispersement cycle, and make sure that we're really solid. Um, and then then the piece that's a little bit unique for me is government is fund accounting. Um, I've never had to do fund accounting, but I've now figured out that fund accounting is nothing other than reconciling accounts, right? So, um, I'm I'm getting comfortable with those. Uh, I I've talked with Julie several times about, uh, who work together. It's just a matter of who and and when. The question, we alluded to this last year a little bit, um, with all items on the table. What's the value of another work session? No problem. I mean, it's not against us to have a work card for one for internal controls, one for sound or moving forward. I I think there'd be value once we have a swim lane of what we're doing now

and some idea a so in other words, right now, right, if I were to ask the payroll policy, I would get 10 different opinions, right? Okay. We we certainly don't know. Um the person to really ask is the person who's doing it. However, she's not only got one more, she's a whole bunch of other people that have that are having input and she's not in a position to say no. Um and so she that's probably the toughest job you have out there right now. Um so you need one in order before you can move on to the next is what you're saying.

Yeah, I think so. I think I think we need to go through the processes and understand what we're doing. Um, and we'll talk about why why it needs to or why it doesn't need to be advanced and then and then have one session because you're going to be implementing a bunch of policies and essentially once you get one written the other ones not as hard. Um, just a real point of emphasis is there's this when you start asking questions and doing the swim lanes. Nobody's in trouble. There's no issue here. We're just all trying to gather information so we can do the very best we can to fix the audit findings. 2025 audits I'm guessing probably primarily over because we we don't have any effect to change the [clears throat] controls that happened in 25 but 2026 um really be nice to go into that audit with a yeah okay this. It's always good to tell the auditors what they're going to find before you fix it.

That's a good point. We're not here to give blame, but to move, learn, and move forward. That's the attitude we need to adhere to. I mean, everybody's got full-time jobs, and every time I've gone in, you know, people have full-time jobs. Um, we got to be real cautious to to make this so that it doesn't cause a whole lot of work. And in fact, net it reduces that work. We hope so. Thank you.

So, um I'm I'm coming in every Wednesday. Um and I've been going over different places, kind of working with them on some of their questions. Um so, I'll keep coming in on Wednesday. Is that a good day to Yeah. Okay. I hate Mondays. And I hate Fridays because Mondays people are trying to make up for what they need to get done a week before and Friday everybody wants to go home. So Wednesdays is typically the best day to work. Have you been in this building at work? No.

I used to have to do with people in the UK. They get off at noon and just schedule a 12:30 meeting for them. You're in big trouble. So no [clears throat] phone meetings about that. [laughter] Okay guys, uh understand there's control documents. Um and as Julian as we get together, we need to engage the state auditors to make sure that we're following what they expect us to follow. Um it's always a lot easier when the person that's going to examine you um tells you what to exam That's not cheating. That's just doing it. Being prepared.

Yeah. Being prepared for it. So, you know, our our our goal should be a a very nice 2026 audit. They have a number. Um should be a very nice 2026. We perhaps some of the early findings [clears throat] and then you know us finding them before they fund it. Good. I think we should link it to our budget amount. Unless I missed it. I see the hourly rate. I don't see the not 200.

Yeah. Yeah. I think we need Jim. Do you have budget number on your fingertips by chance? Yeah. No. Good. about council budget. [laughter]

It's the same as last year if I recall right. [laughter] Yeah. Uh, looks like we got line 35,000 professional services 30 grand. Okay. What's in there? But [snorts] line item 30,300 financial consultants 132 grand. And I'm we do not need to spend 132 at all. We're not even close to that. No. So, so we got some money. I move we approve approve the agreement as provided by Susan Beavers and add a not to exceed amount of $20,000. Can I do something, Scott? Sure. So you're you're saying, "Hey, 20 grand."

Yeah. Divided by 200 bucks an hour, right? That's 100 hours. It's pretty tight. It's it's eight hours. So I don't know if historically she build us to drive here and drive back. Well, that's then we're paying 400 bucks to have her drive up there back. She did she did provide a list in that in that email she sent us of of her days of availability and she would be willing to attend attend virtually save to save us. So what do we want to accomplish tonight? Just vote on her contract and just prove it.

Yeah. So we can prove it and then we as a body can make a decision of the person. Yeah. Well, but rather than make a decision now. Well, what I do not want to do as fast. Well, we sort of cap this to be reviewed if it's going to be going through [clears throat] the 20 is if they if we hit 20, we can increase it to 30. We got 30 grand. But we may have expenses that she may not provide legal advice on or maybe other legal who knows what that that may come up. So I don't want to spend all I don't want that cap to be I'd like to us to squeeze that budget with that. Right.

Yeah. Absolutely. Because the other issue too is that with regards to the council body to me the only person that has authorization to contact or initiate any sort of conversation for billable hours would be you. We need to include that because so if you have

that's a that's not part of her that's that's a policy that's a policy internal policy for the councs issue and the other thing I don't know is we had other departments access Susan and then has the council been built for it when the reality of it is there another department using Susan services. I don't know. I'm just asking the question. So anyway, I what I do know is I think it would be extremely wise for us going forward. I'm not saying we got to do it right away. It's kind of on the to-do list is to walk through these line expenses and fees in the various departments, right? And really understand, you know, what we spending on how much we spend and really is that wise for us to do that. So we are we going to table it or we can approve it with

I'd like to approve it. We can approve it with exclusive to the president and cap 20,000 to be reviewed.

So I'd like to amend my withdrawing. Should I amend it? Okay. Uh so I move we approve the agreement to provide legal representation to the council provided by Susan Beaver with two amendments. One being capping the total not to exceed amount uh at $20,000 per year and two including in section the agreement section that all services provided by the attorney first be authorized in writing or verbally by the council president. Can you like put that into AI and have it spoken a motion to accept the agreement to provide legal representation by Susan with a limit of $20,000 and contact with her office regular [clears throat] writing? meeting with the permission of council president. But the only question we have hopefully we don't have to it's just a warning. 20 goes check. All in favor

yes. Judy, yes. Scott, yes. Gary, yes. Patrick, yes. Joel, yes. Jim, yes. [clears throat] [laughter]

IU listening sessions. We had our first IU listening session for the HC sustainer communities. It was this last Thursday. Uh there was a very full turnout. It was a very successful meeting. Uh a lot of people were really enthused about what was presented. uh their feedback and we have another work or listening session meeting the 19th this Thursday at 6:30 at the Van Beern elementary school. That's going to be another work another listening session just like the last one and they're going to be collecting input on that. They also have an online um report that you can fill out. I will make sure to get some of those uh information flyers and have them in here for people to access if they need them. And uh they're going to be collecting information for through September or September.

Yeah, they're they're going to be collecting information and ideas for several months now. So I highly encourage everybody to visit them and give their ideas. Uh new business we have a there is can I say one thing about that?

Yeah. It was it was good. I like their format because it wasn't a great session. It was a productive let's make it happen session. Yeah. And they they were very good about that. I thought it was very productive. Yeah, there they are. Uh, new business. There is advertising for the vote centers. Um, um, I asked the clerk if she was coming in today. She's going going to come in at our next regular meeting. Regular meeting.

Next regular meeting. What she is doing right now is she's including information for all of the vote center changes and with pack bills, uh, property tax bills that are going out. U, there's going to be information in there about the oak center changes. Everybody who has gets a property tax bill is going to get one of those in in with their tax bill. what she's working on now is uh closing the gap on on people who will not get the flyer through a property tax bill. So, what she's looking for is a she's looking at a reduced overall expense because the flyers are going to be sent with tax bills that most of county most of the county residents are going to get. So that's that's going to cover most of the people [clears throat] with information on both set changes and and at this point she does not know how much she's going to need to to to close those gaps. So anybody have any comment? Actually, I would also say that we updated the county website today uh on the slideshow that's on the front page. It advertises both the location of the voting centers and the times and locations of the building. Okay. So, that shows up on the front page in the right there's a slideshow that's got some you know pastoral beautiful with our phone center information. Okay.

Yeah. Because earlier I talked about getting that on the page and you know was going to be put in the election page and with you and see all question yes Um, when do your tax bill when do our tax bills go out? Oh, I understand. [clears throat] Our tax bills, what day do they go out? They're due first of May, right?

May usually. So, when in April around the middle of April, so two weeks notice. Yeah, at least two weeks notice. That's provided they open them. Yeah. Um, so that means that so that means that anybody that's living in a rental will not get one because the bill will go to the homeowner. So the people living in the rental. How will she determine who those people are? I don't know. That's what she's working on.

Usually a rental people who are renting do not pay their pay the taxes. will not receive a property tax bill. Receive the notice on the property tax. Correct. What looking at is is those gaps that need to be covered and how how soon they're going to do your internal control. Not enough for that one. [laughter] What's the objection to just mailing them out for us? Savings.

You're getting $100,000 from the music center in a month. I really don't want to hear it. It's $10,000. It's nothing. You guys don't have 10 grand. Dude, I don't know. There's objection. We want to just go to due diligence to find out what's how to address best to address the problem. Yeah. most efficient way to do it. The most when we moved the voting locations when Kathy was here, we sent out the notice. When we moved the early voting locations, when Brenda was here, we sent out the notice. I don't know why we're fighting this, fellas. I really don't understand it. Nobody's fighting. We're trying to come up with the most efficient, most productive way to do it. $10,000.

We want to save you money. I don't want you to save me $10,000. Okay. Thank you, though. Thank you very very much. Um, but you could save me money by putting your internal patrols in and get my credit score back up. That would help tremendously and be way over 10 grand. Um, really, please. It's $10,000. Okay. What? Can I ask a question?

Okay, let me let me ask a question here real quick. I I guess I don't understand um why this is all of a sudden, you know, that major issue um because I would assume that [clears throat] anyone that is a Brown County citizen, they're aware that this is a a midterm election. And if that individual wants to vote, that is their personal responsibility, okay, for them to determine where they vote, when they can vote. That's the voters's responsibility.

Well, you tell that 90 year old lady all about it. Well, where's the 90? No, no, no. I'm not going to mean what you're doing, Sherry, is you're politicizing this.

It is politicalizing this. you're politicizing the issue, you know, and basically what you're saying is that if a guy chooses to live under a rock, then Brown County has to pay to go somebody to go deliver that guy say, "Hey, you under a rock. You need to here's when you can go vote." And to me, that's personal responsibility. So, if the 90year-old woman, Belda Bluehair, is [snorts] 90 years old and can't drive, then I would assume that such probably attends a church. She's probably got family members. She's probably got a radio. She's probably got a T. And I would hope and pray that she has a phone. So, you know, anyone within the county that knows this is a preliminary, they know, for example, you have questions. They can't simply just call the clerk's office and somebody there clerk's office could tell them, "Yeah, it's coming up. It's in May like it always." Isn't the Isn't the election the primary always May?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I I know

first the clerk is handling this. They're on top of it. All right. We will make certain that you know everybody in the county, you know, reasonable and customary approach to make sure we've done everything we can to make everybody aware of the voting centers, what the dates are, all of that. But on the flip side of the coin, it's also personal responsibility of the Brad County citizen to take a little initiative on their own. Okay. Now there is there is also a duty of the clerk is to inform the voters there. So but what what we can't do today is spend money on the advertisement or say we're going to spend money when it's up to the to the clerk to determine how she needs to do. We can't force the clerk to do anything.

I agree. So that's what we're we're waiting to hear back from her what what her plan is for addressing the people that do not get covered by tax. Okay. Hey, Scott. Yeah. What's the um internet um availability in my county, please? In your house or No, in the county. How many people in the county have internet service or access? You did a pro a project. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I think we have 7500 homes now. I don't know how many addresses. Have you looked at how many addresses we That sounds really right. So we'll

I think it's around 7,000 last time I looked that had fiber either committed or coming or existing. And then there's been a recent federal government uh grant project that is intended to cover every single last home. And in Brown County, those remaining call 500 homes. It it could be up or down. We had a lot of homes built recently, but I think all of those almost have fighter connected because they would not build a home without it. But, you know, call 500 homes remaining that may be in those nooks and crannies, and there are several out there. I've heard from many of these folks. If you're one of those folks, I would like to hear from you. Um, okay. [laughter]

I don't have internet service either. One of the nooks and crannies. And so, um, because we what we've received is funding from the federal government, which has been kind of a long time coming. It's been a couple years in the pro process that is going to be a mix of a little bit of fiber, a little bit of cable, last time I checked, a little bit of wireless and also some starling. But there are homes and there are other areas in this county that do not have access to internet. There are homes in every county in the state that don't have

that county particularly is all I want. In our county, we are last time I checked, one of the best serves counter counties in the state, including our upload speeds compared to Marian County. We're actually better than Marian County in our upload speeds. And so, um, it's quite impressive where we stand, but I have not forgotten about those 500 homes. Again, I want to hear from you. I think you've been taken care of. that you reach out to me, I can help you figure out what that is. Uh, and we'll be happy to help. [clears throat]

But still, there are areas, there are places it is happening. Anyways, thank you gentlemen. [laughter] All right, we have council bill number one, reduction appropriations from economic development. What do you want? What do you want? [laughter] I thought that's what you Yeah, you tabled that already.

Is this the And I don't sure what that was from Susan. A reduction in the road budget. Yeah. You added 40 grand to our economic development for road improvements that we didn't know. We didn't need added or reduced. You added we're saying we don't need you can have it back. So in order to do that you have to have an ordinance and that's what she created right and it's not an additional appropriation. It's a red I mean surprised we would reduce a road budget. We gave them 100. They asked for 60. Are you sure you want to reduce it? I can't use it anywhere.

I've said it five times. Remember when we were going over the numbers and it was a negative and you kept you said why negative and I couldn't remember what the negative was. That's what it is. You we didn't have it in our economic development. We didn't need it because the highway department took over their portion of it and you guys added it in and we didn't need it. So, we were giving it back. So [clears throat] ordinance it would require two votes or two votes we could suspend a suspend and I didn't vote tonight. It's a reduction inappropriation ordinance ordinance. Number one. Okay. Number two, you know, it sounds to me what we're doing is we're basically deleting a line item out of the this this lead economic development fund

is what we're doing. Correct. Yeah. You're just deleting what's in the Yeah, we're deleting a line item. It has a line item number. Correct. Correct. For 40 grand. Yeah. Okay. But [laughter] you know, I don't have any first I don't have any. It's real simple. Here's the department. Here's the fund. Here's the line item. We're going to delete the line item. It's basically what we're doing by statute because it's a reduction. Yeah, I understand that. It takes an ordinance set of resolution. So, it is Yeah. And so, but we don't there's no documentation on this.

You want to table it? Yeah. 10 minutes after discussion session. I'll second it. Okay. We have a motion at the table. Council number one. A second. All in favor? I. No. Yes. Judy. Yes. [snorts] Scott. No. because I think we should. You're going to need it. Yes. Joel, yes. Jim, yes.

Budget process for 2027 budget. Uh, do we want to include that in part of our talk about the salary and budget concerns that we're talking I'd like us to do? Yes. One of the things we can do is is in every all seven of us council members. Okay. We have these special session meetings every first Thursday every month from 9 to 12. So this is February. So that means we have 10 more of these things. Mr. Huan brought up the fact that we may have to have a few more.

Okay. Very very possible we may have to do that. So what I would recommend all of us do is put some serious thought into because because I think we've you've got one year budget process under your belt even though it's kind of a helper sculpture. Um let's go through look at those special session meetings and let's kind of map out the agenda for the entire year for the whole year. I don't know if you I've got that. Yeah. But what I'm ask what I'm asking us to do submitted that we had one last year that we didn't follow. Okay. Last year,

right? And and so what I'm asking is is that we all put some thought into it and let's kind of think about think through the budget, right? And then let's map out those agendas and advance so we know okay this you know what what sequence so we have direction and because I think I guess what I'm trying to say is let's look at that budget process and let's look at it and and and let's how do we prioritize everything that we've got the scope of all the work that's involved. Patrick, I like your idea. We've got this Thursday work session already on the calendar. Let's leave it on there and meet Thursday, right?

And talk about the two things that I got kicked off forward controls the budget process. I need to be there.

I cannot gave us the schedule. I've already know, right? Well, you gave us that. That's right. That's fine. Yeah, Patrick and I will meet at uh I was gonna [snorts] but to Gary's point, we can we can we can call special sessions, you know, we can set up a special work session and if we come up to do that, we can do that. Yeah. So, I know I know we're not used to Okay, now can you hear me?

Yes. Okay. I know we're not used to some of the things that I I took away from the companies work for, but I sent you all a timeline for the budget, which included read and state requirements timeline. So, there's a timeline on there. calling the Gant chart. I'll stop calling the Gant chart. Um, but it's really a timeline. So, um, I you and I are going to talk some tomorrow. Yeah.

I'd like to take you through it, but I'm going to say that in in about almost a year of upcoming, right? I think if we start putting things in timelines, and I think the suggestion of putting agendas on over a period of time are going to greatly helping because then you know what you're going to expect. Like if it's two weeks from now and you haven't gotten anything, two weeks from now you're supposed to have the salary ordinance. I'm just using an example and you don't see it, right? [clears throat] Before the meeting.

Yeah. You know, I had a conversation with the state board of accounts. Okay. And you know they which makes sense. Um the council actually should pass the salary ordinance before the budget. Oh yeah, it should it should November 1st is the deadline for the budget and you got to back up. Yeah. The other the other issue too is that I have for the last three years of spending enormous amount of hours focusing on the expense side where I'm like is on the revenue side. Kind of understand what makes up the general fund as far as property tax, miscellaneous revenue, and income tax, right? But what I don't know for sure is if everything this budget process, we as a council body, all seven of us should have a thorough understanding of the forecast because I'm to be honest with you and I despise the term budgeting and I would prefer to use forecast. That's in essence. We're forecasting revenues and we're going to forecast expenses. And if we get those forecasts wrong and we don't understand what's in there on the revenue side, we're in trouble. We're in trouble.

Well, yeah. And so there's some work basic work that we've got to do, I think. Right. I mean, I get I'm not disagreeing with you. you and I have had conversations about this, but I just wanted to I would suggest that tomorrow when we we discuss it if if you're comfortable too because it does have the timing when the state gives us its runs a forecast for the mutual funds and you're going to have it on this date in May and I believe it's in May, isn't it? The revenue forecast. Yes.

Okay. So, so really that to me is Are you talking about the DLC 1782? Uh I don't I don't know the number 17282 is yeah right but but yeah so okay on these special sessions we need to you know that needs to be factored in have a conversation probably have we there as well and have a conversation on the revenue side. So the timeline I put in includes a timeline I got for um earlier. Okay. So, you talked to Jerry? No, but I was um I I was handed a copy of the 263D work

proposal, right? It's just got to get coordinated. So, I I think if we work on it's going to save you guys a lot of grief. Thank you. Okay. No problem. Jul. Thank you.

I've got a note on here establishing our meeting structure. That's something we really need to deal with early. Do we have any other council business or concerns? Anybody? Thank you. [clears throat]

Yeah, thank you. and maybe any other tidbits of information that you might have privy with exercise up there about what the general temperature is in the state house regarding raising property taxes and lowering the income tax.

Yeah, it's a not quite as crazy as last year in the state house. this year. Um I have recently been put on the county council association vice president and on the legislative uh committee and so been paying very close attention to what's happening with our tax rates on our budget issues and there are several things that are out there. Um nothing nearly as major as last year. The state park AP is one I've been paying attention to because that's a direct revenue source for the county that would offset taxpayers expenses for public safety in the state park and state forest that has passed all the house committees moved through the house over the senate and has been sent to u has passed the senate natural resource committee and has been passed to appropriations where we had difficulty last year. Um, so you know, um, it's there now and hopefully we'll get a hearing. Um, and so in addition to that, gosh, what else? Gosh, there are some local income tax committees that are being proposed that would be formed. We're in kind of a weird unique situation with only one town. That town is very small. It doesn't appear that we're going to be the kind of the typical lit committee type of situation. Um, I won't go too far into it, but they they they still want us to raise income taxes to offset property tax rates, it appears. And um, gosh, last year trying to get inkeepers tax to go towards public safety to to offset property taxes, income tax on residents was not received well. They they don't they really want us to increase our income tax and so to offset those things. And so they've increased the cap that we can put that income tax at and uh are kind of it appears to be encouraging with a stick, not a carrot in some ways kind of

a stick and a carrot for us to do that. and and uh it's still very much in the works, very much being discussed in um session outside of the committee hearings by our representatives at AIC AIM and others. So there's a quick update for you. Thank you. Question take a motion to uh don't go anywhere yet. We have to adjourn if we assign a quick answer to your question earlier. I looked it up. Taking a vote by voice. Voice vote is the most common and customary method of voting. The presiding officer or chairman simply asks the assembly. All those in favor say I. All those opposed say no. This is one of the most efficient methods of voting under Robert's rules and is usually quite straightforward. It's important that the negative vote is always asked for as well as the positive note to keep it fair to to all those involved. Uh it says however if the votes closed course we have a small board pretty easy for Sandy to count uh on on seven people. We don't really It's not like you had 40 people and she's trying to get all the names. She can pick up a no vote pretty easily and it goes into that said if if the vote is close the chairman should retake the vote in another method such as rising standing up or by show of hands whichever is the easiest way to measure

it and then it goes in real quickly to roll call voting. A roll call vote is mainly used in situations where members represent constituencies. It's important that the constituents know how their delegate voted. Each assembly has different bylaws around how this is ordered. So it's kind of a little bit gray because with that large members it's a little bit different than that const but just remember to also ask for the notebook. Yeah, which we neglected twice but we don't want we don't want to leave.

It's simple. [laughter] Just make sure we do as [laughter] a question is unacceptable. How come a wouldn't it be yes and no instead of it took me 45 minutes to find mix [laughter] one question Sandy is is the roll call vote helpful for you or is it is it is it [laughter] Is it is it necessary for you or do you want to just go show hands? Show hands. Yeah, it's a close.

So you do that anyways. Yeah, I think Sandy should have the discretionary authority that if she needs to do a roll call just to make sure that she heard everything correctly, she has the ability to do that or she has the votes, she knows what they are, then that would be unusual. Typically, it's presidents. But that's where I say to you, Darren, if it's a close vote or something, you know, you probably call for so she could two or three. But yeah, I mean if you if you missed it or whatever. Yeah. If we if we just do a show of hands, you're able to say who voted yes.

Would you like a roll call vote on our adjournment motion? [laughter]

Do we want a motion on that or just She does not rollbody. Judy, can you hear us? Are you guys okay with that? I'm fine. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Ocean of fear.