Council - Regular Meeting

Spring City Council meeting. This is a regular meeting for us tonight. It is February 19, 2026. And Ryan, would you please take a roll call? Mayor Dame here. Mayor Prom Zalinski, Councelor Townsley, Councelor Schmall, Councelor Wymer, Councelor Shakar, Councelor Smith. We have a quorum. Thank you, Ryan. Uh, changes to the agenda. We have a slight change. I'm entertaining a motion to move that change forward. You can tell us what it is. Mayor Prom Sinsky, she is going to fill us in.

So, I'm just uh making note of the change. Um, item E has been replaced with on the consent agenda has been replaced with the uh, contract renewal for our city manager. Okay. Excellent. A second, please. Councelor Tanley, I'll second that. Motion is second. All in favor say I. I.

I. Those opposed. We'll see none. Thank you. Um, any conflict of interests uh from us here on the DAS for tonight? We'll see none. We'll move into the citizens appearing before council for items that are not on the agenda. And I see a few more faces than I have here on the list, but we'll figure it out as we go. Uh we're going to start with Ashley Stall. Please state your name into the microphone and whether you live in the city or not.

Good evening, mayor and council. My name is Ashley. I'm a homeowner here in Glenwood Springs and I've been part of this community for nearly a decade. Um, I'm here to publicly report a major public safety violation at 100 Midland Avenue, Suite 210, the ICE detention facility. Uh, today, through a core request, the city confirmed that this facility has been operating illegally without a valid certificate of occupancy for 20 years. Here's what happened. In December 2004, the city issued a temporary certificate of occupancy that dis expired on January 12th, 2005. The temporary CO documented building code violations that were required to be corrected before issuing a final certificate. Those violations were never corrected. The final certificate of occupancy was never issued. And for 20 years, the city has allowed ICE to operate this detention facility without the legal legally required permits. This is a massive failure of oversight. Detained individuals cannot self- evacuate in emergencies. First responders don't know that there are locked rooms with detainees. families going to the social security office or Midland Fitness and other tenants share this building with an unpermanented uninspected detention facility. This is a group I3 institutional use under the uh IBC, one of the most strictly reg regulated occupancy types because of the life safety risks involved. In 2003, when ICE tried to op open a detention center in Carbondale, that community held public hearings and said no. So ICE came here instead and the city helped them circumvent public input by issuing administrative permits. Then when that permit expired in 2005, the city simply looked the other way for 20 years. This is a transparency failure, an ethics failure, a human rights issue, and a massive liability for the city. I'm asking for three things. First, immediate building inspection. Second, enforcement, either full compliance or immediate shutdown of the detention operations at that facility. and third,

a public accounting for how the city allowed this to happen for two decades. This facility is operating illegally and the city has known about it and the city needs to act immediately. Thank you.

Thank you for your input. Thanks for your information. Um, next one on the list is May Gray and I neglected to say that you have three minutes. So, please state your name for the record and whether you live in the city limits or not. Hello, I am May Gray and I live in Newcastle, Colorado, but I am here as a county resident and we are going to I'm also the new chair of the county Democrat party. Hi everybody. Nice to meet you. And as leaders in this community, Democrat or not, we need to follow the law. We all need to come together and figure out what we need to do in order to fix violations that follow to follow the law. Such as what Ashley had just mentioned that this facility has been operating illegally for 20 years and is this facility even legally there for is it zoned properly? Do we allow a human detention center to be in a shopping center where you can buy a spa or join a gym? It seems a little bit [clears throat] out there, but it could be me. Also, I would like to point out that their lease is up on March 31st. ICE's lease is up on March 31st, and I think that this is a time that we can grab and see things through to benefit and better our community. I'm standing before a wonderful city council who has in the past um cried for a ceasefire in Gaza. and that city council were heroes in their own way. And we are now as Democrats and a community of more than just Democrats asking you to please stand up and be the hero that we need here in Glenwood Springs and to get rid of ICE. We appreciate and love our Latino community. They are invaluable

here and we would like to not see our friends, our family, and our neighbors continue to be kidnapped. Also, I would like to let you know that during one of our demonstrations that we had down there protesting ICE as the Democrat party, they also put up illegally blocking our uh a uh access a um an access to the bridge where we couldn't get on any longer. And so I have photos of that. And uh but ICE also hired private security against the Democrats. They had never done that against Mountain Action Indivisible, but for whatever reason, let that sink in. ICE hired private security against us for our protest. It's odd, and you have to ask yourself why. So, we would really like to see you guys move as leaders, come together, and follow the law. We appreciate you all very much, and thank you for the hard job that you all do. And I look forward to working with you guys in the future. Have a good one.

All right. Thank you very much. I have nobody else on the list, but is anybody else here from the public that would like to speak? Okay, we'll see none. We'll close the um public portion of this meeting and give it back to council for any comments to the um public comment we heard or we can go directly to city staff if we have some sort of a um I you know we're working through what that is um that while I appreciate the description that was given

um it may not be um probably doesn't fully address all of the facts associated around it um and certainly makes some assumpions about intent that I don't think was ever there. Um, so with that in mind, rather than try to go through it right now, I think it's more important that we do that in a um, uh, more studied fashion and get you guys that full packet of information um, and the history that's associated with it. Um, Steve and I have been working on this this week. Um, so I think that's probably a better approach than to to kind of do, you know, sort of an off-the cuff reaction here. I don't think serves anybody's interest. So, for the sake of the public, would this be some sort of information that would come as a uh comment at the end of a meeting or how would we

Yeah, I mean, I think that we can probably um I don't know what it's not going to be tonight, just you know, I mean, literally, we just got that put together over the course of the week, the information that that the speaker was talking about. Um, and like I said, it there there's it's a little more complicated than that regarding a number of TCOs out of that facility at the time. Um, I think being transparent about the fact that there was in fact a special use permit issued and a public process. Um there are a number of things that we just need to get that detail to you guys um and probably to Brianna and and can release that in a more like I said controlled fashion um than sort of an offthe cuff here's three bits of information right

that don't [clears throat] help you guys with making a decision or or analyzing the issue. No, that that's all fine. I was just curious h how we're going to get the information. That's all. Mayor Prom Solinsky, please. I just was going to express appreciation for the communication and elevating this so that we can be informed. I think this is um of concern to me, concern to the community. So um you know getting the more detailed information and uh understanding the situation I think is appreciated. So I do appreciate you doing that. Thank you. Thank you councelor Smith.

Almost verbatim. I really am glad that in the staff and the legal counselor We'll get into the details of this and I'm glad the citizens helped prompt them to do so. Thank you. Thank you. Any other uh comments? No, we'll see none. Okay. Well, thank you very much for being here. Uh council announcements. Item five from the agenda. Anybody? We'll start with Mayor Prom Sinski, please.

Thank you. Um pretty much everything I have is around our airport. Um, in my hand I have two checks. Uh, one is for their, uh, profit sharing agreement and the second is the loan repayment. So, I want to give those to you. Um, it looks like right now the way things are working, they're going to be paying that loan back ahead of schedule. Um, so I think that's good news for everybody who supported this um change of I guess responsibility with uh the lease and um allowing the airport to be under its own management. So that's moving forward really really well. And the other kind of exciting thing on the horizon there is um our KGWS Glow Springs Airport is going to host it is called I'm terrible with acronyms. I'm going to look it up again. It is the Colorado airport operators association annual conference.

Um so for 2027 June of 2027 we'll be hosting that. They have already um secured the entire Hotel Colorado for the three days of the conference and then also um offering a special rate for the three days following that because that will more than likely occur around our strawberry days. So, it creates a really great opportunity to showcase our town, um, showcase our airport, and, um, you know, really put our best foot forward. So, I'm super excited about that opportunity. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Any other announcements, Councelor Smith?

I am very pleased to announce that yesterday afternoon and through the night it snowed. [laughter] I was so pleased to go hunting for my snow shovel. So, Meanwhile, the transportation commission had its slightly postponed meeting last week and uh through [clears throat] helpful councelor Townsley was actually the one there. So maybe can correct any report or add to the report but basically a milestone they reached was something that they've been working on in a way for three years uh preparing specific recommendations for bicycle infrastructure in Glennwood Springs. and needed gap filling and repairs and additions in order to reach a threshold that would adequately support bicycle share network. The we cycle program that that RAFTA has tentatively contracted with the city to pursue. Uh so they did their part to to say this is what it takes to make make it actual bicycling work if you're going to invite new riders and visiting riders. Uh so that's coming to to to through staff and to the council ultimately when the time comes to look at that that next step of that contract. their their next um task they had begun already and is building off of the comprehensive safety action plan that they that the transportation commission coordinated with a contractor to pull together figuring out a broader network of needs for bicycle pedestrian and other v what they call vulnerable travelers uh need in those towns. There's a whole menu there that's already in place. They are now translating that to look at trail safety, seg separated shared use path, trail safety needs, focusing in large

part on electric assist bicycles, the appeal, the attraction and the potential hazards of those power bikes. Uh so they're really they're digging into some some uh details on that. They are going to benefit through some networking that councilors Linsky set up uh in noticing that Roaring Fork Transportation Authority and some other nearby communities and counties are doing the same thing. So, she's got them all connected so they can share notes. I think it's an exciting new prospect. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Any other announcements? See none, we'll move on, excuse me, to my uh to the consent agenda. We got item A through H tonight and I'm entertaining a motion, please. Mayor, are you on? Mayor Prom Solinsky. I move to approve the consent agenda as it stands. Thank you. Looking for a second. Councelor Smith,

I'll be glad to second. and while while doing so to note that I slipped a piece of paper on each of your corners that is a a one-page summary of an interview that I conducted and then conferred with counselor Tsley about for a candidate for the transportation commission alternate spot as part of this consent agenda. I just wanted you to know a little bit more about her um and and hopefully that you feel as positively about her as as as we do. Uh that's what that letter is for. Thank you. Okay. Excellent. Thank you. Any other comments to the consent agenda? Uh Mayor Potm, please.

Um you know, as always, I'd like to uh express gratitude for those individuals who are willing to serve on our boards and commissions. It looks like we have Bruce Barf with the DDA. We had um Ashley, what's her last name? Klein with the um transportation commission. and we have um Haley Harris and Lindsay Babyak. Sure. Who are both joining the um arts and culture board. So, you know, thank you so very much. And if anybody else has any interest, you can go to the COGS site and see what opportunities there that might suit your skill and interest level. Thank you.

Thank you. Just a quick clarification since I'm on the arts and culture board. Haley is actually moving up into the regular position and um Lindsay is is accepted as an alternate. So, excellent. Thanks to the applicants, congratulations to be in a commission. And if there's no more comments, I will ask for the question. Actually, we can do it by voice. Sorry, guys. All in favor say I.

I. And those opposed. We'll see none. Thank you. Consent agenda approved for tonight. First action and/or presentation planning file 0526. Rowanick right ofway encro encroachment license 315. Trent Hyatt please. Good evening mayor and council. Pull up that presentation for you really quickly. Okay,

I just need to click share screen, right?

Yeah, of course. All right. Trent high with community development here this evening. Uh presenting planning file05-26. Um and filling in for Emory Ellson tonight. Uh he's away for a death in the family. So forgive me if I don't know as many details as he does. Um, but this is a rightway encroachment um at 3158th Street here in downtown. And the applicant of this application, David Burns, is here with us this evening um to represent their side of the story, but the property is located at 315 8th Street in the M2 mixeduse central core district. Um the existing or proposed use um currently occupying that space is a retail spa as well as an attorney's office previously on the the upper story. Uh that lot size is 7,500 square feet. And the request tonight is for a right ofway encroachment into um the alley adjacent to that building to the west between 7th and 8th street of approximately 24 in. Staff does recommend approval uh with the findings and the conditions outlined in your staff report. Uh, city council has the opportunity to either approve this right-of-way encroachment license, deny it, um, or approve it with conditions, or continue it, uh, to the next meeting with a request for additional information from staff. Here's a a picture of the encroachment here. Um, so we're talking basically about the electric transformers and the ballards that you see there to protect them in the alley. Um the current request um you know previously maybe discussed briefly this evening was you know done so you know potentially um determined after the fact and there could have been additional details maybe that were requested um earlier on in the

process to understand you know what the actual dimensions of these boxes were going to be as opposed to them just being depicted as you know electric um infrastructure on previous plans. And then of course our electric department came along towards the end of the process and said hey you know we need to protect these from getting hit by trucks and and garbage cans and whatever else. Um so you know we requested the protection there. As you see this is not an unusual circumstance in in our in our public rideways right along this very alley. You'll see ballards that are protecting other other um gas infrastructure electric infrastructure that you find there. But it generally is, you know, something that we try to limit. Um, but it is something that occurs in many instances, uh, we have buildings all over downtown that actually encroach into the right of way. And then as we find those, um, you know, we're a little bit more stringent in how we handle it these days. You know, they have to have a license to do so, a survey that shows the the encroachment as well as, you know, release of liability of the city if any of this ever gets damaged. So that's something that we require as a conditioner. 13 foot clearance as previously mentioned just to give you an idea of where this is in the relation to the building. Um it also kind of coincides with underground electric utilities that are currently in that location of the alley. So it would make sense to put the these electrical components in this location um whether they were encroaching or not. Um a little bit of additional information on general electric infrastructure downtown. You can see that transmission um or the distribution line that goes there through the alley. A section of our code that outlines the rightway encroachment license um criteria basically states that it shall for the the city's land use and utility goals. Um it can't be currently um reasonably accommodated on the applicants on property. Um that the encroachment does not compromise public safety, that the encroachment does not

compromise access to other properties. um nor does the encroachment um or or that it's necessary based on the hardship created by the applicant. And the staff report did outline some specific findings for excuse me, I'll go into those in more detail if you if so wish. [snorts] Um in regards to public comments for this application, we have received none to date. Um we do recommend some conditions related to this application and that would be for some of the affformentioned kind of general requirements for encroachments. Um [clears throat] one that I did not mention is basically you know naming the city um as as a a covered party for any potential damages that may may result to to another party and then they come after the city for for funds for that and then the indemnity agreement that we previously discussed. Um again, the action before you use a 24 encroachment into rideway via a license to encroach. Staff does recommend approval. Um and then uh the previously mentioned actions that you could take and happy to answer any questions and again David Burns and the applicants here to chat with you as well.

Okay. Excellent. Thank you. Uh Trent, Mayor Prom Solinsky, please questions at this point. Can you pull that picture up again? Yes. Yes. So on the left hand side there just past that turquoise door. Are those ballards? Yes. Those are those approximately the same distance into the right away as what we're discussing today? Approximately. I'd say need to. And are those historic or are those um those are historic. I mean we're not talking like historic as long as the building's been there but have been added after the fact. After the fact. That's that's what I was curious. learn these, you know, these trucks can get a little wy through these areas. So, that infrastructure. Perfect. Thank you.

But again, I think the point here is that, you know, this is a is a common circumstance a lot of that's make sure we're protected. Yeah. I just was asking just to make sure that there wasn't going to be a problem with like egress through there if there's already that situation. It looks like it hasn't been a problem in the past. Yes. And just to clarify, you know, this all this was done in consultation with our public works director to make sure that there was adequate width there even with the the the encroachment of the the ballards and the infrastructure. Sorry. Thank you for that. Thank you. Just to clarify, I don't think that the Sprite bottle is going to be a permanent encroachment there. Appreciate that clarification. Little color council.

So Trent, the equipment is already in place. The ballards are already there. What if, let me say that, what if we were to deny the right-of-way encroachment license? I mean, I feel like we really don't have a choice here. Well, you do have a choice. Um I I mean, it would mean that the applicant would have to make significant changes to the layout of their building to accommodate to um accommodate it inside. Is it normally done in this order?

No. No. Again, I I think it kind of relates back to um you know, planning is is is learning, right? I think in this instance, what we've learned is that we just need to make sure that we're in constant communication with our electric department to say, hey, you know, these type of improvements um would be something that would have to be approved by city council because it does encroach to a public area. Um and you know again like the the the encroachment was not as bad until we requested that they install barge to protect it. Right. So uh we certainly are are are part of the equation here. Generally encroachments are not um are are allowed to be administrative if it does not exceed 12 in. This one is up to 24. And that's why you guys are involved. And did I read that we're now limited with garbage trucks through the alley? Did I read that or was that

Are we now limited in any way? No, no, no. It would still allow for for access for necessary vehicles that that go this route. Are there any vehicles that use the alley today that will be that are now limited? Not that I'm aware of. And and again that goes to making sure that we we had conversations with with Matt Lane on is this acceptable or not. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. We we we wouldn't allow this encroachment on the opposite side now, but you know, again, it still allows for that clearance needed for the vehicles that access this portion of downtown.

Councelor Townsley, real quick question for you on this picture. Speaking of the opposite side, if I'm pulling over to the left to kind of avoid the stuff on the right, we've got a looks like an electrical box down there. Yeah, I think it's actually gas meter. Gas meter. Yes. Do we need any protection for that? If somebody's kind of moving over to make sure that they hit a something before they hit that I think in front of the gas meter that has ballers or something. Oh, behind the bike. I see. Um, yeah. Yeah, you want to approve and approach it for that tonight? [laughter] No, I'm just kidding. I'm sorry. No, it's it's a it's a great question and I think it's something that we can we can ask uh public works director Wayne Horse about.

Yeah. Thanks. Thank you, Council Sher. Hi, Trent. Some similar questions. Looking further north where the other Ballards are on the other side of the alley, is that clearance also about 13 feet? Is that a pretty standard thing in that alley as far as you know? Yeah, I would say it's approximately the same. Trash trucks get there, right? And regarding the, and Carl may answer this, regarding the indemnity clause, we're indemnifying the city from anything that happens. Anything that happens then subsequently is a litigation issue between the applicant and the whoever's driving or running into that. It's not our issue at all.

Yeah. I mean, the the reality is if something happened, we would probably get named. we would utilize, we turn it over to Cersea. Cersei would utilize the encroachment agreement and the indemnity clause as a defense um to any claims. Uh and they're required to be in um to our you know to policy limits um for us. Um so it it doesn't necessarily mean that we wouldn't get named. It just means that we're not on the hook. And there's nothing in an indemnity clause that creates all liability for the applicant. No, it does. It's just I'm just saying that because it's on our property still be in court.

Yeah. You you just, you know, it's on our property so we would get named. It doesn't mean that we would be liable for anything that happened. I'm just being honest that it doesn't keep you out of court. It just keeps you out of Last question, Trent. Maybe it's for the applicant, if you will. Obviously, the process is getting fine-tuned, so this hopefully doesn't repeat. Do you have any history or maybe the absence is is there a reason why this wasn't proposed on the north side of the building where there wouldn't be an alley encroachment versus the alley side? Well, the hang on just if I may, hang on just a second. Let's save this question till the applicant is is in front of us and let's finish with staff at this point. Councelor Schmoth,

a couple of things. What we see that we have 13 feet of clearance, what is the encroachment amount? 24 in, including the ballards. Correct. And is there some specification for crash resistance of those ballards? A force a force resistance that the anchors have to achieve or I I don't think there was a standard. So, it's really just a visual block. If somebody runs into one of them, it's going to crash into the electrical boxes anyway.

Well, I imagine they're gonna they're going to certainly fill that impact. I I I don't know what um you know, the the actual you know impact to the the electrical infrastructure will be. And another potential liability to the city that I see that hasn't been mentioned yet is when the property owner on the what would be the west side there where the bicycle is decides that they want to improve their building and need the same encroachment. Then we're down to a 10-ft clearance and well you did it for them. Why don't you do it for me?

Um sometimes it sucks to be second. Um it would be I mean obviously this is something that we wouldn't want to uh have happen again something that that we would be aware of if that permit came in. Um I think as was described sometimes communication between the you know every department isn't um as perfect as it could be and oftentimes those electric um installations are kind of the last thing that get kind of signed off on or design design approved. So there's no liability there. Um, but it does create, you know, it may be more difficult for the building across the street.

Okay. And and I presume we're going to continue to improve alleys in town as as money allows. We probably should have a standard for our alleys for encroachments and all that if we don't already, right? to help prevent future situation. Yeah. In in terms of allowed encroachment areas, I it it it seems like a a good traffic engineering um standard, but I I'm just not aware of it. Right. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Smith.

Thank you. Continuing in the dimensions category or dimensions theme. I think I'm looking at the picture to say that the the surviving span is actually 13 ft. Is that right? Correct. And so it would have been 15 feet without this new installation. Is that generally how wide the alleys are in many instances? Um is 15 feet considered a two-way vehicle way? No. But these aren't these hours are not labeled for one-way travel.

They're I don't think they're intended to be two-way travel, but it's not it's not restricted in all instances to to one single direction. There are some that that are that are restricted with or then with with or without incursions, even at just 15 feet, do we need to consider a one-way pattern in the alleyways? I I I don't know that I can opine on that. Okay. Um I I think it probably depends on each on each alleyway and the amount of traffic it gets. And I I can't speak to this one.

And um a more tangible question then uh you say the remaining 13 ft is sufficient for the example was trash trucks. What about fire engines and the ability to get in and out of a fire engine? Fire engines are never going to utilize this alley. That was another conversation we had with the with the fire department on this. They would never bring their apparatus into this area. Too tight in the first. That's right. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Um, thank you, Trent. Would the applicant care to come forward? Please state your name. Hi, David Burns. I'm the architect of record for the project.

Okay. Excellent. Any anything to add or

No, I I think we were in contact with the planning department. not the plane, but the building department on where this was going to go. Um, the entire project, uh, permit drawings. We met with Doug Hazard about where this was going. So, this kind of popped up to me late as an encroachment agreement as well. So, I was kind of surprised that they asked for this. Um, the reason it's here is because the old utility pole was right there. Um, we removed the overhead utility, brought it underground, you guys did the alleyway, so it was all located right there. Uh, the reason why it wasn't on the other part of the building is because we needed the existing service on that wall interior to occupy the public defenders. So, they needed electricity the whole time. So, this was kind of coincide and we flipped one switch and turned the other. So that's kind of where it was at this point.

Okay. Excellent. Any uh any other questions to the applicant? No, we'll see none. Well, thank you very much for being here. One comment. I just wanted to say that the building department and planning were fantastic through this whole process. Um we, you know, the building we redid it structurally. So, I just wanted to say these guys were excellent to work with.

Okay. Awesome. Good to hear. Thank you. Anybody from the public like to comment on this item? Planning file0526. See none. Close the public portion. I'll bring it back to council. Entertaining a motion in item seven on the agenda. Planning file0526. Mayor prominski. I move to approve planning file 05-26 ROI 000000106-25 rightaway enroachment license 3158 street based on findings and conditions. Thank you and a second. Council Shack,

I'll second the motion. Thank you. Uh any discussion on council's end? Uh, did you want to say something? No, you turned it off. Okay, never mind. Any discussion? I see none. I call for the question.

Yeah, sorry again. Okay, call for the question again. There we go. It passes unanimously. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you for being here tonight. Thank you, Trent. Moving on to item eight, special events challenges. And we're going to have Mr. Frederick. Excellent. And Rodul speak.

Good evening, council. Steve Frederick, parks and rec department. Um, thank you for sharing a few moments this evening to talk about special events. Um, over the last year, the city staff, uh, boards and commissions and some of our community partners have done a great job of reaching out to the community um, just to feel um, out what special events um, have been doing and um, if they want to see more or less. Um it continuously comes back that um the community loves the special events and they would love to see more. It's been a little while since we've been in front of council to make sure that what we are offering it aligns with expectations of council and is meeting the community needs. Um so we are here this evening to discuss that a little bit with you. Um in your packets we gave you some information about um historical budget u postcoid as well as information about the programs that we have been running um and I would be open to just discuss your thoughts and uh what you guys would like to see about special events.

Thank you Steve. Thank you for the information. Any uh questions to staff at this point? Councelor Smith.

Well, I have a new question from your presentation, Steve. Thank you. Um, is this indeed just a checkin on your current menu or are you actually seeking to reduce your your events and the expense involved with?

Uh, I don't think we're seeking to reduce. Um, I think we just want to make sure that we're in alignment with the expectations of the community and council. Um, we have rearranged funds um u to take care of different things in this year's budget which has reduced the budget that we had for special events. Um, so in the case of um expanding, we may need to ask for a supplementation to to do that. Um and the special events that we have currently in the portfolio that we've been using the last couple of years, they have um reached the limit that we would have this year for budget. Um so if we want to continue those programs uh as they've been over the last few years, um we'll be right at that budget limit. if we want to look at doing something different um and either expand our portfolio or condense it and maybe get a little more [clears throat] strategic, now would be the time to do that.

Thank you. Are there other requests in play, other people who want events or events that you've contemplated yourself? Um, I'm not really uh the um creative type, so I've got stuck in a rut. And that's one of the other reasons why I'm here is just to make sure that we continue to uh progress with the community um and not stick with what Steve likes to do. Um but, you know, with our community partners, um they're hearing more and more about special events as well, and they're looking into that. Um, so I guess from our standpoint, uh, we would really like to define what the city's passionate about providing for the community and then we can work with our community partners to find out what they could support to add to that portfolio if that's what council would like to see.

I I've attended at least one or multiple versions of each of these and they seem to be well attended. Is it does attendance continue to meet what?

Yes, sir. I think that the the the events are definitely meeting what we expected for community need. Um they're well attended. Um we get a lot of really great feedback about that. But it doesn't always mean that what we're providing is meeting the entire community's needs. uh throughout our needs assessment that we just did a few years ago, it did um the community did express that they they love these events. Um but it didn't really tell us which ones, right? Um and your constituents may reach out to you a little bit more than they do directly to us on some of these things. Um, so that's what we're looking for is a little bit of guidance on whether what we've currently been doing meets your expectations and what [clears throat] you feel the community is telling you that they want to see or if we'd like to make a change and go in a different direction.

Well, that that sense of of whether it's worthwhile or whether we want to continue rest in part on their popularity on on the actual event day attendance as different from what people say in a survey. Sure. So, it seems like attendance is still up at these. There aren't any there that are slacking.

Yeah, there's kind of es and flows depending on the year. Um, you know, we've we had a really high spike in 2023 that was kind of coming out of COVID, right, when people were really comfortable getting out and we had some really high numbers at those times. Um, and they've started to dwindle a little bit. um don't know if that is due to um um you know just timing or if it's something that you know folks are just looking for something different a possibility. [clears throat]

Thank you. And my last question is if is chronologically should have been the first um these all were created before I had this responsibility. How did they get on the list in the first place as different from just a group coming and getting a special use permit like anybody else?

Sure. Um, from my understanding, most of these were here prior to me getting here as well. Um, in 2019, we had a gentleman on staff who was a special event coordinator and that was his primar primary role. Um, as the department grew that morphed into uh other responsibilities for that position and changed. Um, so I believe most of these started with the the gentleman Ben and I don't know if that was came from council's direction or if that was just um him being given creative freedom to kind of dive in and just provide great content to the community.

Thank you. I I'll turn to people with more experience. Why weren't these just special event permits and how did they get kind of this special status? I think these are things that we just started doing every year over time and then we went into COVID and we came out of CO um and just continued the events that we thought were working for us. So they really were initiated by the city more than an applicant. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Councelor Schmalt, please.

Uh thank you for inviting us to your tough decision making meeting. Uh, I want I want to make sure that I understand this is just the $100,000 budget for 2026 is just the special events budget. Yes, sir. And and you spent 150 last year. So,

um, no sir, we've had $150,000 budgeted for special events. Um, we've spent up to about the $100,000 mark each year. um that's for non-personnel expenses. Um our department is split up into three different divisions and those personnel expenses kind of come from all over the place. So the $150,000 that we have in that budget was um designed to run special events. We spend um the nonpersonnel expenses up to where we feel uh is reasonable to offset the the personnel budgets coming out of other areas. Um, so, uh, this year it's been reduced down to $100,000, um, which is where we've spent for non-personnel expenses traditionally.

So, am I understanding that what you're saying is if if we're going to continue with all of these events, we're going to have to supplement the budget for the non-personnel expenditures to the tune of $50,000. No, sir. Uh, we've been able to adjust the internal budgets to be able to account for that. We just didn't want to overspend. So if the special events budget was 150, we're keeping it 150. We've just been able to to absorb that in our personnel budget on the other side. Oh, so it's not such a hard decision meeting.

It's not. It's it really is. Um there there are challenges with expanding the portfolio just because it is uh challenging to have enough staff to be able to provide large large events. um we would we would be just barely over um the 100,000 if we kept the portfolio as it is. But if council would like to see something else, maybe that changes the discussion a little bit. Thank you. I guess then my my position is I don't I don't have a a real hard love for any of these events. I I have a love for keeping the budget in control. Thank you.

Mayor Prom Sinsky, please. So, I'm looking at the events. I I hear from our community as well that they love special events. The more the better. Um I know we're looking to activate that North Landing area. I'm assuming that would create an additional um opportunity for special events. Um it definitely does that. It also gives us another location. So, um you know, we have the movies and the music that we put downtown. Maybe we would look at um moving those across the bridge back and forth. Um or maybe putting one on one side and one on the other. That would be if we kept the portfolio the way it is. Got it.

Council would like to see other things there. We could definitely look at something else. And then I see um you know in the Pride particular there is a a private sponsor. I'm wondering is it do you wait for like community partners to come to you or do you go out and seek possible like sponsors or u financial partners in some of this

with pride specifically that started as a city event. Um, and like a lot of things that we do in parks and recreation, we're kind of the starting point for things and as they grow, um, and people really take interest in them, we look at maybe passing them off so that they can take them to the next level. And that's what happened with Pride. So, whereas that it was a private sponsor, that that event went private. Um, I think in 2024, we committed $5,000 in some staff time to it. um they took that and were able to blow that up. They didn't need our funding. They didn't need our support. They were able to run that event on their own. Um so that's what happened with Pride. Got it.

With sponsorships, that's a whole another level of time uh and uh dedication that we would need to put to special events. It takes a a lot of dedication to go out and find sponsors. U we could definitely do that if we wanted to supplement the budget that way. That is an option. But we don't necessarily go out looking for sponsors. And usually um folks that come to us with ideas. Um they're already at that grand scale where they're ready to run on their own. They're just looking for um maybe help with their permitting process or um ensuring that they're following the rules. So we don't get a lot of people coming asking for sponsors.

Got it. Okay. Cool. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Townsley. Thanks. Thanks for coming. Just a real quick question. You know, looking at your numbers coming across here, they're they're obviously going up as far as the non-personnel expenditures, but there's no numbers for 2026. So, if we're if we're kind of capping a budget that might be a little harder than it has been in the past, especially with with non-perser with personnel expenditures, what are we looking at far the costs? You know, July 4th has gone from 53,000 to 62,000. Is it going to go to 70,000? Is it going to go to 65,000? What what are we anticipating those numbers paying?

Obviously, um yes, things have got more expensive, which has made it a little bit more challenging, but we do have the ability to scale to uh meet those nonex uh personnel expenditures. Um, so if it looked like we were getting to a point on one of those events like Fourth of July where um, you know, it went from 60 some thousand to 80 some thousand, we could look at making adjustments to get that back down to stay within the current budget unless council would like to see something different for Fourth of July. Um, you know, we are one of many communities that can no longer offer fireworks. that is a huge desire of the community, but they also understand um the safety aspect of it. Um drones we've which we've ex uh we've looked into um in a three or four week period around fourth of July is that entire budget the entire thing which it kind of cancels that out. We've had [clears throat] great luck uh and really good attendance with the um laser shows um but those are weather dependent, right? And sometimes they're really great and sometimes the wind comes up and it it's okay. Um, so you know, we we really would love to hear from you all on that event specifically. Is is what we've been doing kind of what you want to see or would you like us to look at something completely different? Maybe it's a um you know uh hiring more highlevel bands to come in and music and we just it's a more of a musical party at that and we do away with the laser show. Um do we look at something that non-creative Steve hasn't thought of that maybe you guys can think of? Um but yeah, there's I think we can work within that budget if we kept the same portfolio that we have now. If you guys want to see something different, we could discuss whether or not you want to supplement that budget to expand it and do new

differences. Okay. So, essentially, you're saying give me a number and we'll make these numbers match it. Yes, Council Shack. Just uh thank you Steve first of all for what's going on. Um like many here, I've attended a lot of them. My question just for clarification when we look at um participation um event visits I want to make sure we're clear for example no latina which is one of my favorite that's event visits for a oneoff that's one event that's how many people you're counting correct yes sir

where [clears throat] movies under the bridge and music under the bridge were also great events those are cumulative over eight events just so we get a feeling And I apologize. I could have broke that out per event, but you are correct. The movies and music under the bridge is the entire series. Um it when you get under a certain limit with the software that we use, um it protects the participant doesn't give us good number. I just wanted to clarify the waiting. Thank you very much. Okay. Any other questions? That's fine. Uh Council Wymer.

Yeah, thanks Steve. um for movies and music that's somewhat in partnership with DDA, right?

Um DDA is always very supportive of our events. That one is um completely ran by us, but it's in coordination with the DDA. So, um one of the things that we did in 2023, I believe, was expand the Friday night music envelope to match the farmers market. So we could have movie or excuse me music downtown on Tuesday evenings for that whole time and he had something going on Friday. Uh I believe the uh the caverns had music going in their area. So each night of the week we were trying to support large um a larger envelope of musical offerings. So we do work closely with the DDA and play

because they're on Tuesdays, you're on Fridays. Okay. Um and then any of these events, do we sell tickets? Do we take donations at the door? No, these are all um free events. Um once you get into that, there's there are a lot of challenges with that. But no, these are all free, the free ones. We do have events where we do sell tickets. Um our Halloween event, the bizaar, there's different things that we do at the community center um that are ticketed events for revenue. Okay. Thanks, guys. Mayor Promise.

So, on I'm thinking specifically of the music under the bridge. Um because that has been a pretty significantly escalating cost to the city. Is that Do we pay the performers? We do. So, um we actually hire each band. We kind of we've set a specific budget for that. we pay per performer. So, if it's a duo, we pay um I think it's like $250 a performer for that whole period of time that they're playing. Um and that expands whether it's two or five and it got it scales. Got it.

And and also that number has went up because we did change the um the the time amount that we did. It used to be a very short six-w weekek program um to try to maximize what the community was getting along with some of the other partners in town and what they were doing. We expanded that a little bit just because we did have the funds at the time. So it went from a six to eight week program to a 15week um series of music. And then can you uh tell me a little bit about the history of that? Was that something that the city initiated, the DDA initiated when Bethl Plaza was completed or was that something that the music community initiated?

It's a great question, man. I don't have the answer to that. Um, not sure if anyone else does, but uh, it was here when I arrived in 2021 and maybe Steve can speak to. Yeah, these are things that got momentum as the bridge was getting put in. So, the city sponsored those and brought those together. Got it. Got it. Thank you. Cool. Councelor Smith, thank you. I apologize for asking about tendance trends because here you got a chart. I must have overlooked that yesterday. When I was reading this, I was focused on the money chart. Um, now that I see you do have a chart and the fact that you wanted advice about Fourth of July, I see attendance has been slipping.

Is that because of the entertainment you provided? But was it unique weather events or can you know why it's dropped so notably since 2023? Um I I do not know. Weather has been really great for us actually. Fingers crossed it stays that way. Um you know I think this year it being down might have kind of coincided with some of the other things that we saw. We you know people not spending as much money and maybe not traveling as much this last year and that might be why it was down. But no sir, I I don't have an exact reason why that number it's not necessarily a choice among lasers. We've been doing the same thing for in 23 you did lasers.

Yes. I believe we've been doing lasers since like 2017. Um maybe shortly after we stopped doing fireworks.

Thank you. [clears throat] Okay. Any other questions? Okay, I got a couple just a just a couple. Um, and one you don't have to answer because it's probably hard to to get an answer to it, but what's the payoff from these events? How much money do we make as a city of Glenn? What's the net gain from people spending money downtown, people spending money at restaurants, people spending in hotels? What? And that's the one you don't have to answer because it's probably virtually impossible. I mean, we could possibly put a value on the visitors. I'm pointing over here because I'm looking at Mitchell's table there. We could possibly put a value on it and figure that out, but I think it's I don't know how cities do it that can tell you that this event brought 25, 50, 75,000 of sale taxes, sales taxes. And at that point, any event is worth it in my opinion. So, like I said, if you have if you have a short answer, that's great, but it's a tough one.

I mean, we can estimate that and I have talked to some of my peers. What we would collect in our general fund is 1 and a half% of a 4.2% sales tax for, you know, spending that happened. We wouldn't come anywhere near covering the cost of the event. We would always have to subsidize an event like this.

Absolutely. But, but you still have a net gain. And the net gain is not just the city. It's all the businesses around us. It's the restaurants. It's everybody that sells anything is making money when we have events most likely. Unless you choose not to and you close up and you go home. That happens too. So given the needs assessment and oh going into a comment I should probably wait till we're commenting here. So uh the other question [sighs]

no I think that's it. It was it was what's the what's how much money does the city make? And that's probably rhetorical, but at least it's a question I think we could we could look at. So anyway, so what do we need? Uh, councelor Shakar. Oh, so we don't need a formal action. Oh, I do have another question. If if we decide to go with more events, which uh there's my little my little plug-in comment. I'd love to see where would the money come from? Our hands are a little bit tied there. I mean, we take $50,000 a year from the tourism fund and transfer it to the general fund for those events. We also give some grants to events that are basically tourism grants. So, we've got those two funding streams. Everything else is going to have to come from the recreation uh department, the general fund. So if there if there's any way for us to justify or prove that that we are increasing sales tax and and and tourism and all that, could we take more from the tourism fund?

We have reserves. We Yes, we have reserves in the tourism fund. We do. We do. Well, that's a question. And and and if if if there is a relation to both, why not? Good question. It It's a good question. It's a little bit of a complicated question because there are lots of different sort of stakeholders involved with that. But to answer the question directly, if council decided that you wanted to put some events on and they were primarily for tourists and you wanted the tourism fund to participate or entirely fund those events, that is absolutely your prerogative.

I'm just I'm just trying to find a way. Okay, comments again. Well, wait. Okay. Thank you. No more questions. What what's the action you need from us tonight? Where should we go with this? What would you what would you like to hear? Keep going as we've been doing or should we expand or should we at least look at other things? What do you want? I think we're looking just for some overall direction. I mean, there's a conversation that comes up sometimes. We do have budget constraints. So, yeah, I get that. We just want a kind of a temperature check from you guys and see what kinds of ideas you guys had. Okay, sounds good. Let's let's do the temperature check with Council Shack.

All right. Well, a couple things. One is personal preference and the other is general. It seems to me, if I'm hearing you correctly, a, you've done a great job managing resources. That at this point, I would say based on what we're hearing today, short of what the mayor just suggested, we are pretty much event neutral right now. We we can't add without taking something off the table,

which would be fine. what we take what we add or take off the table, we would rely heavily on you for the reasons why the community support perhaps the economic benefit. Um so I look at that. Um it might also help us if you don't already know with Jacob's magic to know for each event local versus non-local. I think he can tell us that that may help in future decisions. Um um I think it's also I'm glad you pointed out it's per event population might also help us and a personal favorite I happen to think no Latina is phenomenal for a couple reasons. Number one, um part of our goal is the outreach to the Latina population. And that even in this current environment of risk and threat, that event is a biggest um public showing of our Latina residents I have seen each year. So I think there's an economic benefit, but also a huge social and community benefit. I wish there were more Anglo there, quite frankly, but it's a great event. Um so I encourage that um very strongly and the others every time I walk under the bridge I smile when those events are going on. So thank you very much.

Thank you. Mayor Protem Solinski Ukraine. No, not at all. There you go.

Um yeah, I I know that we have budget constraints. I the more the better, the more we can do. So, um, I would put a call out to try and find community partners and find ways that we can augment, you know, some of these opportunities, get other people to help us put on events that the community can enjoy. Um, I think that also, you know, to kind of think about that tourism conversation, the board expressed interest today during our joint work session being more of an advisory component to that. And I would say that maybe this is an opportunity where parks and recck could reach out to tourism. Maybe we could do a little joint something with them and brainstorm how to share resources and um you know bring forth events that both address tourism and the community. So I think that there's potential for untapped partnership resources there. Um, you know, because I do think that that appetite for more things to do as we watched another one of our local movie theaters close and we don't have a bowling, you know, like all the things that normally would keep people, you know, recreation like occupied. Um, we're not having as much of that and they're going to maybe start looking to the city to provide some of that entertainment. So I think that we should be thinking along those lines of you know how can we facilitate that if that is what people start looking to us for. If it's not going to be done privately people are going to want to see something publicly and how do we make that happen.

Thank you councelor Townsley. Um, couple things just, you know, I agree with councelor Small that, you know, also making the budget work is is pretty important and commend you on, you know, going from 150 back down to 100 and probably still being able to make most of what you want to have happen here. I think, you know, in looking, in my opinion, in looking at doing new things, I would want to see you go, okay, well, what are we what are we going to take away or what are we not going to do to keep us within those budget constraints? And I don't have a big personal feeling one way or the other about any of these, but if I was just looking at it, I would go, "Okay, the the second one, New Year's Eve, is quite an expense for the lowest number of people that go see it." So, I would hope that when you looked at it, that's kind of a way you would go, "Okay, we're we're not getting much bang for the buck on that one. If we want to do something else, maybe that's one that you look at getting rid of." I have nothing against that. I don't even really know what it is unfortunately, but I would hope you'd kind of look at those like that. If a if whatever you decide to do on July 4th, I know we've talked it may coincide with other things that are going on in the city. You know, we take that into account as far as do we do it or not do it. And also looking at the size and the cost of something and just I think you guys are right on the right track. Let's let's keep it within budget. let's let's figure out how to get the most bang for our buck and and we would look to you and the in the commission to come back to us with those things. Um I don't think that it's probably with where we are budgetwise this year as far as going let's put a whole bunch more money into this unless unless there's a strong feeling the other way. You know, I think you're doing a great job. You're here asking the right questions and keep up the good work.

Thank you, Councelor Wymer. Steve, you are here for the right reasons. So, thanks. Like, we all get in ruts, right? And it's like it's super helpful to just kind of tee things up and or or it's super thoughtful to tee things up and like, hey, here's what's going on. What do you guys think? And and, you know, just kind of look in in new directions sometimes for that inspiration. So, so yeah, you're here for the right reasons. I think my my opinion at the moment um is is to really evaluate bang for the buck um uh like uh like uh Mr. Townsley just just commented on, right? And and you look at things like um you know movies in the park, two bucks a person is kind of what we spent. uh Noce Latina 365 Fourth of July eight almost nine bucks New Year's Eve $23 a person right like so so I think ways that we can start to approach that is all right New Year's Eve just doesn't work for us or we go into it with a budget of like four bucks a person we're expecting 800 people let's spend $3,200 right and and see what we can do with that. So, so, so either, you know, we start looking at some of these events and we like we just can't make this rationally work and we decide to hand it off to somebody or to transition out of it. Um, or we start to just really see these trends and we start to rationalize the budget per expected headcount and we and we try to go about it that way. I think that um there there could be some some uh potential partnership opportunities with the chamber around around some of these events just in the way that they

do bring in tourists and the way that they do attract um all the foot traffic to what I would think would be uh the chambers uh membership base right so there is something in it for the chamber if they if they um maybe we have approached them. But I but but but I think that that's that's probably an opportunity that we could potentially tap into. And then to um um Erin's point around just sponsorships um that that these things should be almost 50/50 in my opinion as far as public private approach to these things. If that requires another Steve, right, or a junior Steve, let us know, right? And that that kind of gets worked into the budget and yeah, it's going to cost this, but we're going to be bringing in this and here's the benefit and chambers coming in now, right? So, it kind of just it becomes this this this rounder number, right? That it's not just pure headcount that we're going to be spinning on this thing. So, so I think, you know, hopefully we're giving you some meat to sort of chew on some potential directions to if we're not, let us know, holler at us. But but um just a couple of avenues to maybe work in and come back to us with, you know, hey, we looked at this, we looked at that, here's the answer. What do you guys continue to think? And we're happy to to to continue to iterate with you guys on on getting to somewhere where we're all happy, you know, and feel good about it. So, um thanks again for coming up tonight.

Thank you, uh Councelor Smith.

Thank you. Um, I like the creative thinking going on around New New Year's Eve in particular because I think that's that's a very cool event. Uh, it's also unique in that it whereas these others are generally outdoors, but there are in other facilities, the [clears throat] bridge and the park. Basically, this is the one that's in the rec center. And is it conceivable or even do you calculate that it serves as a membership recruiting tool or or or does does it have ripple effects that you you expose the wonders of the rec center? So so that the benefits go beyond just the 500 people who showed or 800 people who showed up. Um do you get more out of it than that?

Sure. So um historically the background behind New Year's Eve was we did fireworks um on New Year's Eve or New Year's Eve. New Year's Eve. I call it New Year's Eve now. Um and in 2020 one we had a major blizzard and the fireworks couldn't go. The fireworks were set up. Uh we had spent a large amount of money on it. We were able to negotiate and get some of that money back. Um but we were out a good chunk of change for the fireworks. It's great time of year to do fireworks. Uh but if weather comes in, it makes it really challenging. Uh so the staff actually came before the council then and discussed um options. And one of the options that we came up with was New Year's Eve. That was because uh we with the weather we could be indoors. Uh two, it could be more of a community event. Maybe we're not drawing in so many tourism, but it's more based around the community. And yes, sir, we have had very good luck with membership sales during that event. um anywhere from 20 to $30,000 on that day for memberships,

right? That helps although that that may be because we were there at that time. You know, the membership sales could have happened at other times as well. So, I don't want to say that that's the whole reason why, but um we do have very good data on that. I'm glad you you have tracked that data because it it just intuitively feels like a a need exposure for an ongoing facility that could appeal to locals especially but appeal to anyone. Thank you. Um Silver Prom and Family Ball are not on this list. Is that because you charge admission and that takes care of the cost? Just Okay. And they're heavily sponsored

and you get sponsors. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other thoughts? Okay, here's my thought. And [clears throat] it's the most frustrating thing for me when you have to stay within budget. I understand fiscal responsibility, believe me. But I can't stand it because this is a this is an area where I want to explore and I want to expand. Um, based on the needs assessment, based on the on the DDA survey that they did, events are wanted, more events are wanted. How do we get there without losing our shirt? Right? That's that's what it comes down to. Whatever I heard here tonight, I agree with everything. It's all it all makes complete sense what what Pierce said here. Exploring sponsorships is huge. Working with the DDA is huge. the chamber is you and and just because we got a list from what the city does here doesn't mean there's any other events. There's the chamber puts on events. The DDA does some stuff chamber there's there's other things going on, right? So there's there's other events, but I feel like there could be maybe two three more and I'm not talking another dozen. Just just explore what else there could be. Maybe scrap one, bring another one in. partnerships talk and and and Rod, we said at the arts and culture board and we go through through this almost every meeting now with with the new energy we have there which is phenomenal. They want to put on events. You have a tiny budget in that arts and culture board. You really do. But we got to find a way there. There's got to be some money somewhere that we can funnel into an event. And I think sponsorships, partnerships, people that put on events and just need space to do it, things like that, and bring their own force to do the event as long as it's vetted and everybody does what they say they were going to do.

Those are all avenues I think I think we should explore. I I really do. Um, I mean, don't, you know, go running at it 100 miles an hour, but at least see what there is that we could possibly possibly bring under the umbrella of our events. Um, I I go downtown probably more than I should, but I'm down there a lot and and the one thing I hear is, "This was great. Let's do something else. Let's do something different in a different spot. C can we have more of this?" I don't know what we give up to have more of that. That's the frustration with the budget, right? So, but in my point of view, let's explore. That's where I'm at. So, everything's been said. You guys have direction. You feel pretty good.

Yeah. Direction. Okay. Earn some money. Awesome. Thank you for bringing this forward to us, Steve. You did a great job explaining everything. Good job. Um, and if you have any other concerns or questions or should we change it, come back. Absolutely. Thank you. Item nine. Anybody need a break? No. Okay. Item nine, ordinance 20264, planning file come triple quadruple 015-2026, Colorado wildlife resiliency code. First reading. We have the fire department, community department, and building inspector.

Well, building official. Sorry.

Okay. [sighs] Good evening, council. I'm your fire marshal, Robin Pitt. I'm here tonight to talk about the state wildfire resiliency code that we are having to enforce. Um, a little bit of a history of of how this code came to be. Um, obviously as we know here in the state of Colorado, wildfires a pretty big part of our daily lives, right? In the last 20 years, the the 20 biggest fires in the state's history has happened. Five of those happened in 2020, including our Grizzly Creek. So, as a result of that, the governor turned around to the fire commission and asked, "Hey, what are we doing about the wildfire problem, and how can we combat this issue?" uh what the fire commission turned around and said it was we need to create a wildfire resiliency code board and to really look at at that problem. Um you'll see it's kind of come a long way since 2003 um in a very short amount of time. Um the two areas that the this board really looked at was the structure itself and how structures uh can survive a wildfire and then obviously the parcel around it right and how we can uh mitigate the vegetation. So the code board got together um and this is one of the unique things um with this code and the state of Colorado and with the home rule that we have right this is one of the first building codes that is kind of a statewide um issue that we all having to face. So part of this code is saying that every governing body that has some sort of building code on on the books needs to adopt this and especially the ones that are in the wild wildland urban

interface as we talked about tonight. Um part of what the the governing board also does is um they they're working really closely with the division of five prevention and control that's at the state level um to provide some resources. Um obviously there's kind of a stepby-step uh need for that, right? So the state's kind of waiting for the actual need um as a result of this code. Um but they already have um secured some funds for some additional uh full-time employees to help with this. Um additionally with the the the board um and especially this initial board that was set up um they defined what this wildland urban interface problem was right and they created a map and I'll get into some of the details through this presentation of what they came up with. Um but also what they said was there's a way for governing bodies to petition, right? Because there's a lot of uh different jurisdictions that have higher levels of needs as what this code has. Um but obviously as a code we can't really go below that code. We can have to meet it or exceed it. Uh one of the specific things they did with this board is they wanted to have good representation from across the the construction industry. Right? So it's not just fire code officials. it's everybody that has a kind of a stakeholder in the home building and construction industry. Um, so they they decided to go with quite of a a big board. Um, so there's 21 people. Like I said, it kind of spans across across the building industry, right? So the fire code refresh is just one element. Um, one of the the good elements that we brought into it was the insurance industry and how this is going to affect insurance rates. So this board like I said I mean they they got formed in 2003 and in in a short two years they they came up with this code. Um you can go online you can get this information. Um there's also

the map that they came up with the state map. Um there's a lot of information up there on the website. Um but I'm going to get in the nuts and bolts of of what they came up with the code um and what it pertains to to us. One of the reasons why they able to uh come up with in such a short time of time frame is this wasn't new, right? They didn't come up with anything new. This is based on uh science and tried and true practices that we've had for quite quite a some time. Um so right here is the international WOOI code. Right? This has been on the books from 97. We've haven't adopted as a city. Um but it's been a resource that we've we've used. Right? So, a lot of what you see in this book, you'll see in this new code, but the board really wanted to make a state specific code, right? And didn't want to base their their findings just on an international bank. The the other element that you'll see within this is the Colorado State Forest Service. This is what we've been handing out. Any event that you come up to with the firehouse and the fire department, we're handing this out, right? So, this is the information that we've been pushing and pushing and pushing. Now this is going to be on code right for people to really start actually taking this seriously. Um so what does this code apply to? Obviously this is the big question is is there any retroactivity? This only applies to new structures coming into our jurisdiction right and it applies to any any building. Right? It doesn't have to be a habitable residence building. Right? As we know wildfire affects anything right? So, it's any building that's habitable and that people can kind of work and and and be out of. What this does not apply to is um some additions and alterations. And this is where it kind of gets kind of into the into the into the weeds a little bit. Um if you are replacing the roof of your house, that roof component will

need to meet this new code, but not the entire parcel of your property. or if you're replacing the siding, right? But obviously, if you're replacing the your roofing, you're going to have to apply our new uh our building codes that are on on record as we have today. Um some of the other things that this does not apply to. Um again, this is new construction. If you are doing additions, significant additions that exceed that 500 square foot, there's no nothing in the code that says, hey, if you do 10% 10% 10%, are you going to reach this threshold? Right? It's hey, if this comes across the building officials desk and if it meets these requirements, it's like, hey, you you investing all this in your property, you should invest as well in in wildfire resil. Um, I'll get into the reasons why fencing and some of the other things is important with this code in a second. So, what they did is they classified the wildfire um hazards, right? So the low hazard, medium hazard, high hazard. The way I look at this is the way fire affects structures, right? So if you have a fire that's way out in the wildland interface, like way out there, but you have all the winds and all the embers that then come and collect against your house, that's kind of your lower risk, right? Like you you kind of near the wildland, but you're not going to be so much affected by the fire. as where and you get to that medium to the high hazard, that's that direct flame front that's coming in, right? You have to kind of protect your house against that. So, you'll see that that they really only came up with two classes. So, the class one is that low hazard and then that class two is that medium and high, right? So, there's no differentiation between that medium and high. What the state map uses is there's a couple different ways to model this data and try and figure out what the wildfire risk to your your community is going to

be. What the state map uses is again using this the state forest service data is they use uh fuels and topography to try and figure out what that flame length is going to be. There are different ways. We've been uh working with our GIS folks to try and create some some of our own maps. Um but you can see that that there's a way to have view local map when you open up the state map online again with anyone that knows GIS, right? This there's a this is a really big layer when you open it up. So it kind of takes a while to load. You'll see all the yellows are primary kind of out in the planes, right? Where you see those flashy fuels. Whereas when you get into the Martin corridor, you're going to see those oranges and reds. Primarily the hash marks deter um are areas are like the federal lands or um the places where the state map doesn't apply to.

Getting closer to our area, Glenwood, you don't see any yellow. Not surprising, right? Lots of oranges and reds. When you look at Glenwood Springs profit itself, you're not going to see any definition in that map because again what the state map is using is those fields and they're not able to uh map um within kind of municipal areas, right? And so it's up to us to kind of prove those those maps. Um some of the other things with this map um there is methods for ground truly. So obviously over time when we encouraging people to do mitigation and large scale mitigation especially uh there will be changes to this map. So we can again there's ways to be we can turn around to the state and say hey we've made some changes and kind of looks better than it was right. Um so that's kind of some of the the the deals with the map getting into what the code requires. So again looking at that difference between class one and class two. Class two just builds on class one. Um, so really, as I said, looking at how embers are going to kind of affect that house. We really just don't want those embers collecting in the eaves and then in the in the low areas of of that house, right? So, we looking at the gutters, the down scouts, anywhere where those embers can kind of get inside the house, right? So again, if you look on our on what we have currently, we already have the need for class A roof coverings for quite some time on our our building uh needs, right? Because we we understand that living here in the moment. Um getting into the site requirements, this is again why I have the two people behind me, it's not just the building official, but it's also the planning and zoning and and the land use component of this, right? to looking at how we then managed the the surrounding area around the structure. We know and for the longest time we've been preaching and preaching those first five feet because again we know those

are where the those embers are hitting the house falling down and then just kind of sitting there, right? And if you have combustible material that's you construct your house with there's a good potential your house is going then going to burn down, right? So trying to mitigate that and again through what we've seen time and time again again through these different fires we see these houses that do stand right and this is a result of it. So this first five feet again for class one is just really looking at those first five feet and then as we get into uh class two this is when you you start to look at that direct flame front to try and prevent any um outside ignition materials um for just being more ignition resistant, right, for um withstanding that firefront from moving through. Um so again, looking at more so um the ease external walls, the decks especially um a lot of the times with these fires, the decks will catch fire and then burn down the rest of the house, which is really unfortunate. Um and and then also windows and doors. um looking at the glazing on those those elements um and just how the again this the fire gets inside the structure. Looking at the class two area requirements um so again this is based on what we've been preaching for all these years not just the first five feet and but it's also managing your property around it. So looking at those tree crowns trying to space them apart trying to eliminate those ladder fields um and just eliminate all the the dead stuff right because we know that the dead stuff likes to collect and catch fire and then be really intensive when it goes through. So really looking at at the larger property um because again it's as that fame front comes through try and slow that fame front before it hits that house. So those are kind of the components of this code. Um

again this is on it's a state mandate. So I guess we all like yeah the state right? But again as a fire code official this is what we've been pushing for. we've been asking for and we have to turn around and now make it a code, right? We have to kind of force people to do it, right? So again, I'm not going to go through we went through what the what the board has done in the last three years to where we got to today. Um but what what the state mandate has said is by April 1, we have to have this on the books and then by July 1, we have to start enforcing this. So that's why we before you tonight to try and get your your feedback um determine if we need to make this more stringent or just keep it as is. Um we'll go through some of the comments in a minute. Um but that's just where we are and why we're here today. I'm going to end my presentation tonight with this picture,

the Cole Scene fire.

Yeah. Because again as a community we know that we live with the wildfire risk every year and especially with a lowia this year we know that this upcoming season is going to be the potential is going to be there right so we want to prevent this from happening again you look at that picture you look at where that front stops you can still see the scar on the hillside and you look at that info of what we've built right and again it's not just residential it's commercial as well right so this is why this code is so important, right? It's and how it affects our community. And so that's why I'm really excited. Even though it's a stat state mandate, I'm like, it's good. Let's do this. Right? So, I'm going to leave it there. I want to pull in front. Do you have anything else?

I I just did want to make a couple more comments to you all. So, uh, you know, as Robin mentioned, it is a state mandate, but we do have a little bit of leeway in what we map or identify those areas that are in the more central part of the city. And our recommendation is that we go with a moderate classification of those areas for many different reasons. Um, one, the requirements are the same for moderate and high um, wildfire risk areas that we that we do have mapped on the perimeter of our city and then kind of another step in, right? Um, but the requirements for those zones that are applicable to new construction are the same. So mapping the area within the interior of our city um as a moderate hazard allows us to have the same standards applicable citywide. Um and and we really don't feel like that's going to be a negative impact on the currently developed area of the city because it doesn't apply to existing residences. So we would really get into um you know the the application of those standards in the future for redevelopments and things of the sort. Um you know this this does um have some costs associated with it. Economics are are are important part of this. You know we've we've heard nightmare stories like say from Durango that this would cause a 20% increase in the cost of construction. Well there's a lot of details there that that are at bay, right? Um, you know, one of the requirements for jurisdictions, municipalities, and local governments in the state, um, for building codes was that anytime you touch your your building codes in the state that you you were mandated to update to the 2021, um, energy conservation code. Well, we've

already done that. Um, um, you know, another benefit to us is that, um, you know, a lot of the standards that are outlined in here specific to building, we already apply. you know, we already require class A roofs. We already require double pane um windows for energy code compliance. So, we're we're not it's not going to be quite as big of a shock as it is to to other jurisdictions. What exactly the cost is going to be, I don't know. You know, I I've looked into this a little bit. Estimates are anywhere from two to 3%. But I really think that the biggest issue that we're going to have is going to be with implementation, educ education, right? you know, once we adopt this code, we're going to hit the ground running trying to get the message out to to the community, right? It's not going to apply to to anything um that's currently in the queue or or any applications that we get in between now and July 1st, but thereafter we're going to want to start doing that. So, it's going to take some public uh education as to what this means. And it's also may take some changes to our landscaping code, too. Right. We're currently this month, next week, we're going to work with the planning and zoning commission to try to to work through some of those and it'll be tagging along behind this um to you all maybe the following month. Uh but you know, it's it's uh maybe not as landscaped as how we wanted to or how we thought we should previously. There's going to be a non-combustible zone around around residences. There's going to be increased requirements for making sure that conifers especially have 10-ft separation between crowns. So, you know, there there's going to be some additional work for our staff. Uh, but we think that we're prepared to do it and we're not anticipating this to increase uh our our labor for staffing. So, just wanted to add there's a couple different additional

just to add a little bit on it. We're already following like Trent said and Robin uh most of the material that on new construction and it's uh class A. Uh the only thing that will I think it will affect will be the material for fencing or and uh decking. There has to be different type but I don't see anything else going up in that one. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, thank you for the presentation and the excitement about a state mandate. That was that was really good. Unexpected but good. Uh any questions from council? Let's start with Council Townsley.

Does does any of this affect the the way it's mapped or what we're doing? Is this going to have any effect on homeowners insurance as far as mitigating that being better, being worse? That red being all around us can't be good from an insurance standpoint.

So, the conversation of insurance and insurance rates and if we're going to have insurance for wildfire has been a big topic with this. Um, as I mentioned, part of the board was some stakeholders from the insurance companies. Uh, the insurance companies have their own proprietary maps and their own ways of modeling this data that they don't share. We are hoping that this is a a standard, right? And if as a community that we can show that we are meeting a standard that hopefully that we can then show that the insurance companies that hey they shouldn't be running away that they they can still insure people, right? So it's kind of a it's hard to say what's going to be the results. Um one the the question is is like hey if we make this a high hazard are they going to turn around and then increase rates? We don't think so. Right. We we we are hoping that because we are making some some changes as a community, they are going to then not run away basically.

Yeah. Uh, councelor Small,

I see I see the uh that the after we adopt these, the code official shall have authority to grant modifications to these rules in individual [clears throat] cases. So, that's encouraging. But I also know that in over a year, the pallet palace on Donigan Road has still not been improved after a year's worth of effort. That is a horrible higher fire hazard. It's everything that you would never want to see that's been in existence for over a year. So, we can we can put all of these codes into place, but if we can't enforce them, what good does it do? and and you know it's is not a rhetorical question. It's it's um

if you can yeah [clears throat]

that property is in the county but it's in our rural fire district and it's been a frustration of ours that we have very limited ability to enforce things as a fire district. What we can do is refer to the county and that person shows up in county court when they get around to it. And they've been issued, I think, three citations. Now, I do think they're in county court tomorrow. I don't know that that's going to push the ball forward anymore, but I think what we need to do is have a conversation at some point about what can we do in this city and in our fire department to own a little bit more ability to enforce this stuff if we're expected to be the ones that keep everybody safe, right? Oh, you need more. All right. I'm sorry. The other the other thing the 500 square foot limit is is approximately what our ADU spec is, right? So, if somebody's trying to add a 500 square foot ADU, then it could affect the entire existing structure coming under this code. Now, applicable.

Yeah, it's only applicable to the the new structure that they unless it's attached unless it's attached, right? That's bad. So, so those those are the kind of things that where I think that the code official shall have the authority to grant modifications to the code is really important. But it's also something that you guys don't want to do. You want to have a code that you can rely on and apply uniformly. And if I may the modification that we can do it to be more stringent, not

okay. So if that's not what that's not what it says in the in uh what it says to have it, but on the code, you know, usually you supposed to get it more stringent than you know, make it less. That's what I've been finding

there. There certainly is the availability to do some modifications, but then you know my understanding is the code. It's also probably likely after very expensive testing to prove that your modification is more fire resistant than what the code is or two equal on standard. So I I have a hard time believing that folks are going to want to spend the time and money and effort to to implement, you know, that type of standard. Yeah, I I I mean there's there's some some some things that will be difficult to implement, you know, but again our hands are kind of tied in this instance.

Any [sighs] questions? Oh, Dave Townsley. Councelor Townsley followup codes. I'm not sure if I understood you correctly. If we have a code and we say we have the ability to be more stringent, that doesn't seem like that's going to go over very well with somebody. If you go, okay, here's the code. I've met the code and you come back and tell me I want you to do more. Is that am I misunderstanding that?

No, that's if let's say that uh when we go to 24 or Yeah. 24 or 27 when we change the codes, we're now in 21. And then the code on 27 says that we have to follow this this section and then they want to lower the standards on it. You know, I don't see how it can be. But we're not we're not going over and above what the whatever the right now. I mean, that's what we're following. Okay. That that's all I want to make sure. Yeah. Thank you, Councelor Smith.

Thank you, Trent. You described your intention to rate kind of the core the inter internal portions of town as moderate. Uh that prompts two questions for me at least. Does that imply that you want to imply the more intense standards to the perimeter of town? Yes, the the same standards as the as the moderate and high which would be the class two standards. And and again, it's it most a lot of those standards that are outlined there specific to the building, we already include in in our building code for various reasons.

Yeah, this is the third time I've heard Robin's presentation and it's beginning to sink in. That's one of the things that really sunk in. By complying with this state mandate, we're mostly affirming what you already have in place. Is that fair?

Yeah, I would say that the major change is going to actually outside of the structure in terms of landscaping. space uh tree spacing deck materials. It's going to require now a class A deck material or plastic. Plastic's okay, too, because it melts. It doesn't, you know, continue of burn. Um, you know, that's going to be the biggest shock for us. But I think the benefit to that to the interior of the city is that we're mostly developed there. Um, you know, this is going to be for, you know, god forbid we have a a fire event and we need to rebuild or, you know, for future uh maybe development within the more of the core kind of a hybrid between question and comment. Um, I I would have taken comfort from that notion that the core is kind of more established and more protected until I saw the Superior Fire where the whole went

you know that's another thing too so many of these fires start from as Robin mentioned from embers that are coming from miles away right are we still have extremely um sensitive susceptible structures that are that are within that area so that's just where we live right and and we also a lot of those existing structures are do not have suppression systems you know that's another exception to our code. So, you know, they're they're just as likely to be subjected to to embers from fires miles away as ones on the exterior of the city. Although the ones on the exterior city are certainly more susceptible to that flame lot that was mentioned. Okay. Thanks very much.

All right. Thank you. Any additional questions to that? We'll see none. Anybody from the public here would like to comment? Also see none. That means I'll bring it back to council entertaining a motion in ordinance 202605. That's already wrong. Ordinance 202604 planning file com 00015206 Colorado wildfire resiliency code. This is the first reading. Councelor Shakar. Well, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Regarding ordinance 20264, I would move that we approve exactly what our mayor just read. Thank you. Excellent. Thank you. And Mayor Prom Sinsky,

I second that. And a second. Any discussion? You. Okay. Mayor Prom Sinsky, please.

Yes. I just want to say um you know, I appreciate the work that you're doing and I appreciate your enthusiasm. When I was at the state of the city, I kind of stood next to the table and I listened to your presentation and um the amount of resources that you have available to the community. I don't know that everybody is fully aware of that. um you like Mina will come out and walk your property with you and help you harden your landscaping. And I think that that's something that everybody we should be promoting that actively so that this doesn't feel like such a stick. Um you know with the city is really truly coming forth and trying to address these concerns. After the Paradise wildfire, people in this like up and down the valley were absolutely terrified envisioning this happening to them. And this is a very proactive way that you have been addressing this and your department is addressing this. And so I just want to say thank you and I will do my part to spread that word and make sure that everybody's aware of it because I think it's really important work. So thank you for that.

Thank you councelor Schmalt. Thank you. I I want I did read the whole thing and tried to understand it and I agree with everything you're trying to do and I believe that it's the right thing to do. I object to having someone else tell us we have to do it and then have us sit here and act like we're voting for something that we have no choice in. Okay. Any more discussion? Okay. We see none. I'll call for the question.

It's unanimous. It passes. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you guys for being here. And for reasons you probably don't care about, we're going to have that that for a second reading on your March 19th agenda. We're actually adopting the code by reference and therefore have different noticing requirements. So just FYI. Will that be consent or another item? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Excellent. Thank you. Thanks for letting us know. Item 10, ordinance 20265, article 020230, adjust victims and witnesses assistance and law enforcement bail boards dispersement limit. I got this one. So, uh, Vic, how's

my name's Ryan Muse. I'm the city clerk. Um, so victims of uh property damage and loss uh can go before the veil board and currently recoup a maximum of $500. This ordinance increases the recovery to a limit of $1,000 and that's about it. That's about it. Excellent. Thank you. Questions? down. I'm not familiar with with this board. I understand the concept and and how it works, but is is the uh is a $1,000 enough?

Yeah, that's not for me to answer. Let me jump in. um it it typically we have limited it to that um to make sure that the funds we don't collect and a huge amount of funds and to make sure that every everybody who is a victim has access to some level of funding. So that that's really it's not intended to fully compensate anybody, but it's designed to compensate people to an extent that we have the budget to do it. Any other questions? Let's see. Councelor Wymer Ryan, what the numbers look like last year budget-wise, number of dispersements, averages, etc. I'm going to kick that one over to Steve.

Yeah, we usually budget somewhere in the ballpark at $25,000. We haven't actually spent all of that in the last few years, so there is a little bit of a fund balance that has built up, which I think is part of the reason that we'd like to increase that a little bit so we can make a little more progress. Thank you. Okay. Okay. No more No, let's may have a motion first. Hang on. Public first. Anybody from the public here that'd like to comment. I know. I got to do it anyway. I see none. I'll close with the public portion. Bring it back to council and attaining a motion. Yeah. I don't know. He doesn't get to. Okay. Mayor Pro Solinski,

I would like to move to approve ordinance 25 2026-05 article 0203 adjust the victims and witness assistance law enforcement board's dispersement limit from 500 to a,000. Excellent. Motion to approve. Looking for a second. Council Towns second. Motion a second. Any more discussion? You again. Am I allowed? Please go. I would just like to say that I have sat on this board and it is been a source of frustration that often our limit doesn't even cover deductibles

and so that I think was the main reason that has the landscape of insurance and such has changed. This is now becoming a much more tangible recovery for the victims through no fault of their own. Okay. Thank you, councelor Schmall. And I had understood that that court ordered fines went into this fund. Is that when when a when someone is convicted and Yeah.

So it's a search charge on top of so if you appear in m municipal court um uh go to trial um lose um you're there's an additional assessment for this fee um that's provided for. We do it. um authorized by statute in the municipal courts. So that's where the funding string comes from. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Any other discussion? See none. I'll call for the question.

We are on a roll tonight. Unanimous. It passes. Thank you, Ryan. Moving on. Item 11 on the agenda. 97 count, excuse me, county owned lots within the city boundary available for purchase. Mr. Lang Horst. Good evening, council. Uh, Matt Langworth, public works director. I bring a very odd one in front of you if you've read the staff report. I agree.

Um, I actually started with this like six months after I started here almost 10 years ago. Uh, we started this discussion again. um council. Uh 99 lots were obtained by the county in 1954. All of those lots are within the city of Glenwood Springs. Um in 1972 and 1975, for whatever reason, ordinances were done to abandon the rightaways basically around the lots, creating just kind of large blocks. Um if you abandon the rightway, half of it goes to one lot, half of it goes to the other lot. So these lots are actually a little bit larger than your standard city lot because of that. Um, in 1993, the county started a discussion of, "Hey, we own these lots. I don't know why we own these lots in the city. We would like to get them over to you." Um, sorry, 92. That went into 93 into 94 and then it just kind of died in 94. Um, Robin Miller was here. He doesn't really understand why. It just it went away. 2015, early 2016, it came back. Um, county came back and said, "Hey, are you guys interested in these lots?" We said, "Yes, we're interested in these lots." This is the short version of the story. Sorry. Um, so we tried to procure them at that moment. We needed to do appraisals. We couldn't just give them, they can't just give them to us. We had to buy them. Whatever reason, that kind of fell off also. Um,

they went up for auction. I talked the county out of selling them [laughter] in a county BOCC meeting actually. Um, and then I was like, let's get these things into the city's hands. And just died again. So about two months ago, I would say the county came back. They have a real estate agent now. They've done appraisals on the lots. They would like to sell the lots. They have sold two of them. That's why there's not 99, there's 97. Apparently, somebody's looking at one other one. Um, but they're fairly unbuildable lots, at least from the city's perspective. We've looked at them from geohhazards to slopes to just serviceability through utilities and access. Um, so the question that came in front of us is a, do we want the lots? B, what is the price that we're willing to pay for the lots if we want the lots? And would you like us to make an offer for the lots? So, reasons that we'd want the lots. I can pop up pop up this next screen.

Just real quick, which ones are the three that are under contract or are going away? Um, the two at the very top, they're red and green. Yeah,

I have to reshare apparently. Stop sharing. region is that okay, this is the countyy's GIS map just so you can see kind of a larger area. You'll see the lots themselves are these large blocks. So the rightway has been partially encumbered on this one. This one for some reason this has not been. Um so there's one, two, three, four, five, six. So kind of the outside line there. Um, one reason to purchase a lots is a we probably get them fairly cheap. B, we own everything to the west of or the east of them. So, this large parcel right here

is city springs and this large parcel right here is also city of Fenwood Springs. Okay.

So, there is the 12 street ditch is at the bottom of this. I keep switching around here a little bit. So the 12th Street ditch is right along these parcels. They are the 12th Street ditch heading back towards uh Ninth Street bas or yeah Ninth Street. Um there is some reason to purchase the lots that are these 123 right here. Then we can actually control the backside of the 12th Street ditch tanks if we have debris flows. There's rockfall hazards over there's a few different hazards or geological hazards of that location. kind of makes sense for us to buy those, add them to the whole property acquisitions we've been doing recently and then we own uh up against something we already own already. Now heading this direction, there's a little less reason to buy them. There's these one, two, three blocks here, but it comes down to if we offer the county say 500 bucks a lot, that's $48,500 for 97 lots in the city of Glenn Springs. Um, can I use that property? It might be some debris flow things in the future. Also, you can see kind of all the channels that come out of that area over there. If we have debris flows, we want to put fencing up. We'd want to control that. Um, so it makes sense to do this uh in a way. And I'm not promoting one way or the other. It's it's uh it seems like a good investment. Also, we have people that come in and and they're looking at these types of lots or the lots that are farther north on the Denver rideway that are almost undevelopable. It almost saves us that conversation over and over and over again. Um that, hey, you can buy that lot, but there's really no utilities to it. I don't know how you're going to get there. It's slopes above 45%. Um so, I guess I am kind of promoting just buying the lots. We would buy them out of the water fund. That's the most benefit that's going to get out of this. So it won't hit the city capital funds or the general fund. Um obviously they

would just become city acquisition property at that moment and we can do whatever we would like with that. So once again weird conversation. I'm sorry. U but it's come up for almost 70 years now. Thought maybe we could deal with it if we should do so. All right. Excellent. Thank you, Matt. Um questions, councelor Smith. Weird as it is, it's fascinating. Um, do we know or have a way to know what the biders on the two or perhaps three lots have in mind? And if we don't like what they have in mind, should we try to out bid them? Um, the two northern

Yeah, they already closed. The two northern ones are have been purchased by a local resident. They're already purchased, I believe. Uh, closed or not, it's fine. The person that's buying them has a good one. reason to buy them and has a use for them. Um, the other one I don't know they're actually looking at. I would assume someplace down towards 13th Street. Um, but I don't know really for sure. Okay. I don't want to outbid anybody on anything. You know, um, like I said, I'd probably give them 500 bucks a lot just to kind of acquire them and and add them to the stock and control that hillside a little bit more for future. Right. Thank you. Thank you, Council Townsley. What what were the appraisals that came in and what did the other two people pay for theirs?

Um I don't know what they paid for the other ones. It's significantly higher than 500 bucks that I know. And I believe the appraisal for all of the lots was like 1.2 million. It was a pretty significant number, but I don't believe the person actually looked at the developability of the lots. Just a C dot standard. This is how many square feet it is. This is what it's going for. uh the appraiser that did it we use all the time and that's kind of what they look at. Um and we did not provide them any slope analysis nor did anybody else. So it was a pretty significant number the county was looking at as a value but when we look at it they have no value. Do you have any indication that they would take 500 a lot? I have no idea.

Got to start somewhere. Right. That's right. Councelor Small, um, if someone were to buy those lots and leave them divided into the 97 lots that are, I presume, legal in the city, and we have services up there. How could we deny water service? Um, we don't have services up there currently. They would have to build all the road and utility infrastructure associated with those lots. The lots in front of the ones that are for sale don't have anything on them.

They do, but they're in the alley or the roadway to the west. So everything behind them, there's nothing up there. They would have to build all the utility infrastructure up there. And we'd have to look at the blue line to see how high it is over there because the tanks are down by the tanks are below the lots. Am I missing something in our conversation from the last meeting then about if water service is available within 400 ft we have to provide it? Now if sewer service is ava water sewer service is available to an applicant within 400 feet they have to hook on. It's a different way like we're not obligated to provide it they're obligated to hook on. So it's on them to do it. So like BLD, they came in, we didn't build any of that infrastructure for them. They built all of it. They're actually going to have to have some pumps for some of their buildings. So they would have to accommodate for all that. So yeah, somebody could come in and say, "I want to hook on." And we would say, "How many EQs is it? What are you building?" We would do an analysis and then they would have to build all the infrastructure. But considering how steep these lots are, I'm not sure that in comdev world they'd be able to do that anyhow.

Yeah. May maybe not by comdev but but from a building perspective you can build anywhere money and bad sense.

Any more questions? One more. Okay. Council sh forget the mark price for now. What is there any what is the downside of the city to owning these lots if any? I I mean I think probably the biggest one is that we just we own a lot of property around. Uh it's more property to keep track of as far as fire hazards, encampments, things like that. That would be the probably the biggest I think issue for us.

So is that a downside or is that a plus? Right now we can't control what happens there. In the future we could within certain legal bound. Yeah. I mean it it because it's in county ownership. It doesn't really change the nature of being public property and and all of the the difficulties of enforcement that go along with public property. So that wouldn't really change the the biggest difference I think would be that it would be our problem instead of the county's problem. Thank you, Councelor Wymer.

And then the downside for us not buying these properties That's why I'm kind of on the fence about the conversation. I mean, the downside is, okay, I don't control the rest of the hillside. If I wanted to for whatever reason, debris flows, fire mitigation, if they want to come clear things out, um, cleaning up ditches or draws if we're concerned about rockfall, you know, we already own everything to it, so we can control that. I kind of see it as a benefit of debris have happened in the a little farther south to this and these are probably fairly charged locations. So, we might want to consider going up there and doing an analysis on it than we own it. Um, around the tanks is definitely a benefit because there are steep slopes coming down to the tanks. I can do work up there that we don't currently own the property on or if I want to go higher up on the ridge, those kinds of things. So, there's benefits to it. And if the county would accept a smaller dollar amount for them, then like Carl said, we would own them and maintain them and operate them versus the county.

Yeah. I mean, it seems like the county kind of wants to get rid of them, right? They want They're up for sale right now. You go on to MLS and look at them. They're on MLS. I mean, could we just do a a quick deed for a dollar and just take I mean, like literally like a quick quick claim or what?

Yeah, I mean, we could. But I mean it depends on whether the county would want to do that. I think historically the county has wanted to they they have felt like and believe that they need to get some reasonable amount of compensation for them because it's a public asset even if it's going to another public entity was kind of where I think that's where things I don't really remember exactly. I think that's kind of where things kind of dropped off in 2015 2016 when we were talking about them. Uh I think council at that point was very much where you're at, you know, kind of with that suggestion of like we'll just take them over and that'll be good, right?

And I don't think the county felt like they should or could do that with what they viewed as a public asset. So much like you guys would think of, you know, if you own some property and you were transferring it. Yeah. So thank you, Council Shack. Two more fairly quick ones. Trent, could you come up a second? In in general, Trent, according to our code and our hillside and slope issues, are many or any of these buildable under our fold right now?

Um, no. We've had many a conversation with folks that maybe purchased them inadvertently, didn't have knowledge of of of our code. Um, and and you know, those are tough conversations. You know, I guess sitting back there, I would think, you know, my only fear is that as property gets more and more expensive leading into the future, um, you know, there may be more and more pressure to allow the development of those lots and, you know, folks may be more motivated to spend the amount of of capital that it would cost to to run utilities and access to these locations. So, you know, without having a a crystal ball, um, you never know what the future holds. But, you know, as Matt said, with enough money and lack of good sense, you know, who knows,

right? If somebody But they're not developing. If somebody came in today with the lack of sense and enough money with one of those lots, is there anything that would prohibit them other than meeting our code? Well, you know, codes are written so that you're not taking away the every ability from someone to develop a piece of property that they own, right? You know, so there's certainly arguments to be made that, you know, with enough money and like a good sense that there's hardships um that are applicable to these properties. So, you know, could it happen? Yeah. Okay. It could. Is it financially feasible today?

No. And my last question would be for Stephen Carl. Hypothetically because we haven't negotiated anything. Matt's thrown out a price, but in the past when we have talked about purchasing property, we have said, "Well, we'll never pay we we've used the appraisal price as a cap, right? But not as a not as a bottom." So it um if you have an appraisal and somebody offers you significantly lower, is there a public responsibility to reject that offer automatically or what what what's the code of conduct here?

Well, I I don't think there's a specific one and I you know and I think that um I think the you know I I think given the buildability of the lots, the appraisal is probably pretty high, right? Um and so how the seller feels about that number and what they feel is appropriate given that it is a publicly owned asset. I I just can't speak to where they're at. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Small.

I guess I have one other question. After reading through all of the correspondence in in the efforts to transfer these properties before, does it does it come as a was it a complete surprise that all of a sudden the county has listed them for sale with without even talking to us about it? Um, Kelly Cave did let me know a little bit in advance of them hiring the real estate agent that they were going to come up for sale and that she would be had the county be happy to take an offer from the city on the lots themselves. So, they didn't do it blindly by any means. Um, she did let me know a little bit ahead of time.

She let you know that it was happening and you could stand in line with the other biders, right? Yes. But I also talked to the real estate agent and she has already written up a contract or whatever you want to call a offer. Offer. Thank you. I was coming up with that word uh at that number and she didn't seem overly upset about it. [laughter] Funny. Any other questions? Um so 500 bucks is top bid. That's where we're going. That's what we're doing. Not not high. I mean if it were to change for some reason we would come back, but that's what we would put in. Okay. And you obviously have the money in the budget for that kind of thing. We would need some money for that

budget. Yeah. We'd have to do a supplemental appropriation out of the water fund, but but the money's there to do that. Okay. You know me and budgets, so just want to make sure. Okay. All right. Me. All right. Council brought it up. Do we Matt has come up with a flat number? Do we want to offer any latitude in there rather than saying, "Oh, if it's not 500, you got to come back to us and ask or uh yeah, because if you say here, you have some latitude in an open public meeting." I'm thinking if I'm on the other side, you're a million then you're the million two. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. No latitude. Counc

I guess my understanding is what we're saying is 500 a lot for all of the lots 97 or or none. Yeah, that would make sense. That would you be opposed to 96 if we let the one lot go? No, that's fine. That latitude. Is that the latitude? [laughter] No comment.

Okay. Excellent. [clears throat] Anybody from the public? See none. Close public portion. Bring it back. We're going to do a formal auction here. Bring it back to council. Item 11, 97 county owned lots up for sale. Entertaining a motion. Come on, guys. Somebody wants to buy it. I need a little harsh harder push there. Okay. Councelor Wymer. All right. So, actually, no. No, he's out. Mayor Pro Tim Sinski,

I move to authorize Matt Langghor to begin negotiations for acquisitions to the purchase of the 97 county owned lots within the city boundaries. Excellent. At a price of $500 per lot. Perfect. Excellent motion and a second. Oh, I turned you. I don't know what I did. Council Sher, I'll second the motion. Motion in a second. Any more discussion on these beautiful lots? See none. Call for the question.

No. Temporary police housing on Indian got some tough ready at No. Councelor Townsley. Yes, Mayor Prom Zinsky. Yes, Mayor Dame. No, Councelor Wmer. Uh, yes, Councelor Schmal. Yes, Councelor Smith. Yes, Councelor Shakar. It passes 52. Excellent. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you, Matt. Let you know how it goes. Yes, please do. Um, thank you everybody for being here tonight. We are through with our actions and presentations. Council comments starting with councelor Townsley, councelor Small, Mayor Prom Solinsky. Nope. Councelor Smith, please.

Thank you. two minutes to staff and legal counsel and and police department for crafting some specific and tangible responses to concerns about the surveillance cameras and the contract with the company operating was a nice um clean mood. Um, I I have this sensation that we since we had said it a couple of times before, we still should seek some sort of public input opportunity. I don't know how to craft that because I don't want it to be a free-for-all.

If I may, counselor, I I still am underneath an obligation to bring you a proposed contract amendment back at the next meeting which I'm working on. So that will be that opportunity and it will be narrowed to that contract amendment.

Perfect. Thank you. Um I continue to hear from neighbors about the culdeac policy and I want to ask about revisiting that to see if we have updated information experience from the fire department. Other comments from neighbors to see if there's any new latitude on parking in culde-sacs and wonder if there's an appetite for that. Are you asking us? I guess that's who I ask.

Yeah, you should ask us. So, if anybody's interested in that appears no, I'll see if I can make get bring in some more comments and make a better case. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. with respecting the the confidentiality or or the the ongoing investigation and probably some rights of minors involved. Will there be a point that we can learn about what happened at the middle school yesterday? And do we need to know?

Let me get back to you on that on what if anything we can share? just not so much to the nitty-gritty of who did what as much as kind of what sounds like really excellent response from school security and the police department and just kind of so we know the system works. Yeah, I think that um I think really from the standpoint of what we can provide for your consumption, the press release really covered it. So, um, but I know it's an it you you feel like as council you should get more than that, but unfortunately you just less interested in getting more than that to see but see if you need more from us of No, I think we're of support or

Yeah, I think um you know this council and speaking a little bit for I I know um Chief Darrison and a little bit for John sitting next to me. You guys have been super supportive of the of the PD and the school district both and so I think they know that. Um, so I don't know that there's anything else that on this issue that they need from you guys. Thank you. Thank you, Council Sh. Councelor Wymer. Good. Um, I got a quick comment and it's it's petty, but I have it. So, anyway, we can unlock those doors.

Unlock those doors because you can I mean, we keep one door open because it's an open meeting. Makes sense. But if we actually unlock it so people can actually open the door, then we could close the door and we don't have any noise coming in from the outside. Just a thought. It is petty. Um because it's been locked and everybody's always like, "Where do I get in?" And then we all route them through the kitchen where they shouldn't be. Right. Just a thought. Okay. Thank you. Um, city manager. Um, no. Thanks. Thank you. City attorney.

I'm good. You're also good. Mr. Mr. Muse, any correspondence? Nope. Not tonight. The mayor prom, please. Social event announcements. I believe we will reconvene at Tapato. Thank you. And I'm entertaining a motion. Move to adjourn. And a second. Second. Mitch Wymer second. Any All in favor say I. I.