Cultural Commission - Regular Meeting

It is, it's our tenth, PM, so I'll I'll call this meeting on the board of library trustees to order. We'll call. Trustee Mohammad? Here. Vice chair, Victoros? Here. Trustee Rakosa? Here. Trustee Huynh? Here. Chair Evans is also here, so we have a full set of people. We're good to go. There's no consent calendar items. We do have public presentations. This is a chance for members of the public to present on items on the day. Do we have any members of the public who would like to make a statement?

No. No. I'm sure. K.

We'll move on to our first item, general business, and I'll turn it over to city librarian Wong to

Hey. From our last meeting, we had, you know, a a direction from from the board to have a special meeting specifically to talk about potential revisions to the city charter. And so one of the things tonight that we're gonna be doing is looking at both the charter language and also the ordinance. We spent a little bit of time last time going over each one and the details on and to answer any questions, but this is obviously another opportunity for us to do that. I think if anything, what we might do is go over all the language and then when masterfully thought about putting things into three buckets so that we could kind of take care of things for wider.

Right? The things that we might do is the things that we're totally not interested in doing, we might put those in that bucket and then take them off the shelf, and then we're not looking at that anymore. The ones that you really wanna retain no matter what, and maybe we put that in that bucket. And then the ones that are sort of in the middle that you might wish to retain, we'll put in that bucket, and then we'll spend most of the time talking about the first two buckets then. First bucket meaning, do you like the language that it's in?

You know, do you wanna revise it? Do you wanna soften it? How do you how would you like it derived? The second one, we might take a look at each of the different items, the pros and cons of each, and then come up with, hopefully, moving towards consensus, but we don't have to. But because they're not there may not be unanimity on everything. Okay? Does that sound good? Sorry.

I can't read. What does it say on the green and orange sheet?

Well, we're gonna we're gonna actually show what it is, read it here, because you'll have it in front of you. Okay? So one of the nice things about the way this this packet is designed is that the last two pages actually are the ordinance and the charter. So we're gonna follow it line by line. Now the other thing that could happen though is if you come up with additional items, that's not to that. So you if you say, oh, you know what? I don't see it on here, but I really like it. I like that idea. So one of the things to also give you some ideas is that the Charter Review Committee looked at is it Anaheim?

Anaheim. So

Anaheim's we thought that was important for you to know. And so that is listed also in your packet. It's on the very back page. Okay? So we we can take a look at Anaheim as a body right now if you want to. What what is the pleasure of the board?

It might be useful to go through Each one? Yeah. We can go through one, but, like, maybe it might be helpful to talk about the Anaheim one first. First? Because it's because I it sounds like they That's new. Doing it. That's new. I think we've all seen the the other

Our

stuff our stuff times. I think it'd be helpful just to

Okay.

Go through that as, like, an overview and understand that, and we can discuss all that's different, and then maybe move on to the activity of Okay. Taking our stuff into money. Right.

Do do we know why she chose Anaheim?

We do not. Okay. You know, Glenn was on vacation when all of this stuff happened, and we just happened to hear that they were looking at Anaheim. We didn't get any specific direction, but Jen, Bayer, who's also working with them and when found out that they were looking at Anaheim. So we quickly said, oh, well, we might as well give you Anaheim at the same time then.

Because they were looking at as maybe an ideal one because they too were looking at best practices that we you know, that you had indicated some interest in. Yep. So so let's do that. And then and then at the very end of the meeting, I'll go over the questions that you asked from the last time because they don't actually they're not that pertinent. They're just informational, and there's nothing really that would infer any any difference here.

We didn't wanna take up too much time. It's it's actually much more clerical than anything else. Okay. So Anaheim City Charter, if you look at the very last page of the document that you have for the for the board today, for the meeting, section nine zero eight, library board powers and duties. There shall be a library board consisting of five members.

Sounds familiar, right? Which shall have the power and duty to: a, make recommendations to the City Council for the operation and conduct of city libraries b, recommend to the City Council rules and regulations and bylaws for the administration and protection of city libraries. C, recommend to the city council the duties and qualification of the librarian and other officers and employees of the library of libraries rather. Excuse me. D so okay.

Let me just kind of say what that really means. To me, in reading that, they actually do go over the job description. That's what I'm hearing. Okay? And it's not just the city librarian, it's actually all the staff. A little bit different. Yeah. Okay. D, make recommendations concerning the acquisition of library materials. So that is recommendations. I don't think they approve the acquisition. I think they're suggesting. Is is this Just like other customers.

Similar to, like, just what customers do, you think? Or is this similar to how we have a like, a we have a policy we develop for

You mean collection development policy?

Collection development policy. I mean,

you No. When they talk about acquisition, they're talking about acquisition.

Just directly saying, like, you should get booked on this topic or

okay. That's how I understand.

I guess anybody could do that in our in our library.

Of course, if this was a school library, I would say, actually, they actually vote yes or no. Oh.

I think a request from the board of trustees would hold that weight and maybe put pressure on them to do something they did they didn't wanna do.

Perhaps. That's why I know. That that is that is part of that as well. Okay. Moving on, e, made recommendations concerning the purchase or lease of real property, and the rental or provision for adequate buildings or rooms for library purposes.

This is a lot of this is a lot of responsibility. Okay. F, make recommendations concerning the borrowing of library materials from and lending library materials to and exchanging library materials with other libraries, subject to any costs and expenses approved by city council. Okay. So what I'm sharing with you I mean, what this reads to me is a lot more administrative kind of things. So this is interlibrary loan. It's it's it's along those lines.

Mhmm.

Right? G, consider the annual budget for library purposes during the process of its preparation and make recommendations with respect thereto to the city council and the city council. Little different. They're involved in the preparation of the budget. That that's what how I read this.

H, within sixty days after the close of each fiscal year, report to the city council on the condition of the libraries for the preceding fiscal year, and on others and on such other matters deemed expedient by the library board. So there's a direct connection with the timeline of reporting back to the city, formally, at a city council meeting. I, stimulate community interest in library activities. Encourage individual and citizen groups to donate funds, property, and services for the development and operation of library facilities and programs. So there's a little bit more I think there's a a little bit more direct ex expectation from the board to do such things.

I think you folks do things more more informally along those lines. Exercise the last one, exercise such other functions not inconsistent with this charter as maybe prescribed by ordinance. And, of course, they tie it back to whatever ordinance language that they have to. Yeah. K.

So okay. So you have three things to look at now. I you is maybe let's start. Is there anything that appeals to you in the Anaheim one that we because you've read the other two, and you know them I mean, I don't think you know them, like, by heart, but you you're familiar enough with them that they are very different from this one. Is there anything in there that strikes a chord with you that you do wanna do or don't wanna do? I like I. You like I? Okay.

You just I think that's

would hurt us to do that.

To have it to to have that as an expectation

Well

for the board. Seems like we should be doing that. I think you have it in the manual as an expectation for you you you know, as we onboard you. There there is an interest, and and we express that there. I don't know if you want it in a a written ordinance or a charter form. I guess

a question I have about, like I I like that we as a group can already do why. Right? And so it's just to be encouraged Yeah. That Right. That's something you can do. What I wonder is, like, this sounds almost like it's something like the Friends of slash Foundation is doing Right. In our in our particular organization, and that responsibility seems like it's like, so if they have a second similar organization is

I don't believe Anna I think they have a Friends. I do not do not think they have a foundation. They do have a foundation. Oh, they do? Oh. Okay.

Good.

Yeah. I with Debbie. I think we I'm open to the idea of I, but I think I'm looking at our own chart review. I kind of correlates with points d, e, and f. It looks like we kind of already

have Support educational recreation and cultural activities.

Yeah.

It's kind it looks like we kind of already have I. We just write roll it out into

I think the fundraising part is is not as as explicit. But, yes. Yeah. I think so.

I think this is mostly sounds like we would do what you do. Whereas now, you come to us with ideas, we discuss them, and say if they're good or not. Right? Yeah. I don't tell her what to do. I mean, you you bring things to us. Right, Patty? I think Policies and

So I said stimulate community interest in library activities. I think you do that already as part of your goals as individuals representing the areas and the people that you know. So I think that's actually, you do do that. The part that's different is the individual and citizen groups to donate funds, property, and services, which I don't know that that's actually explicitly your role right now. Right now.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, so just the whole the read of this altogether, just more like a comment. Recommend using the recommend, consider, report, stimulate. This is an advisory. I mean, that's no question. I mean, this is really it's just advisory. You're not required to do any of these things, the first read of this, for me, just generally. Mhmm. Speaking specifically to the stimulate community interest in library activities, I think that the thing about that that that I I take away is that it really depends on the makeup of board, who the people are.

Mhmm.

So, I mean, I don't know Anaheim that well. I mean, maybe they these people work for Disney, whatever. I mean, I don't know. Right? I mean, so I'm a librarian. I mean, I I don't have all of those. I I don't, I mean, I don't have that standing. Like, I'm not head of NVIDIA. Whatever. Right? I'm not you know what I'm saying? It's really the makeup of the board. And so

Yeah.

The people there's somewhat an expectation here that people on the lobby board are in well high positions of influence. And you can then bend on other people of influence to say, hey. You know, donate to the library. I I can't certainly do that right now.

I

cannot. I mean, at my But that's what I'm

But it might be on an individual level as opposed to

Right. Right. And so I think it really that that that particular thing is is is the context there is who is who is on the board, what's the nature of the city, what's that sort of thing. That's what I get from that. So I I I think, personally, I'm not as interested in I as much as I am interested in what's already Okay. Because that gives me a

I I think I totally agree with you because, like, I I see this as somewhat conflicting or overlapping with what I understand the role of the foundation to be. Like, the foundation board really should be about folks who are gonna go out there, raise funds. They're ideally there because they have connections and help do things community. I really think that the library board was our our position is that we're here to help recommend policies and what's going on with the board and the library, but not necessarily because I don't wanna have people say, oh, well, we want somebody who can do stuff, so we're not gonna appoint, you know, somebody who doesn't have the connections but might have a lot of input into library itself. Like, there are a use somebody uses or volunteers, but they don't have that higher level fundraising connection.

So I think having those as separate things is valuable. So I I think, yeah, we should certainly encourage, you know, on our own. But putting that in the formal rule, I think if I was a city council member and I was gonna vote on this, I'd be like, well, I gotta look for somebody. I might wanna look for somebody now with a different set of criteria in mind that you're now a fundraiser for us, not a just somebody who's maybe a library user or a community member who's good at getting feedback to about the library system, right, which I think is the difference between, I would assume, our role as the board for the library versus the role of the board of the foundation and the branch, which is really more of the fundraising and

That's their main adoption.

This means this is what we would have to do

generally if that's that that is what they're looking at. Right.

I I still like stimulate community and personal wide working activity.

So is it done somewhere. Is it maybe that's something that you strengthen in terms of the things that are already there. Because as you pointed out, supporting educational recreation and other cultural activities for citizens of all ages, That's actually in the ordinance already.

Yeah.

So if you wanted

to say that you had

a more active role in promotion, I think that could that could work. But is there anything else in the Anaheim Charter that we've that we read and that we've spoken about that that interests you of having another you know, something else that you wanna add?

So so I thought c interested me, but not for everybody because because I I I I I I don't don't wanna wanna think that we should be involved in the Right. I take the writing of, like, library Writing pages or whatever. But I I do one thing I I think is important about us is that we've currently have the approval of the city librarian Mhmm. Hiring. And having us some say or some feedback in putting that position, just that one job together, I think, could be useful. May not I don't wanna be involved in all the other positions. I think that's the city librarian should should be. That's

in the charter charter lead. Yeah.

So that's our charter. But, like, I I don't know if it's just but all all we have is approval or disapproval. Like, do we wanna actually have should we also be able to get feedback on the the qualifications officially? Because right now, I I think I think they let us do this last time, but we weren't officially No. Far to do it.

What it

would be. And and And so that that's something which that it was in charter Right. Just about the city of Liberia and job position, then we could get feedback for that and, you know, So I that's one that stood out to me as, you know, I don't think we want the whole administration role, but I think be giving all the have give feedback for the city of Liberia position was valuable.

Yeah. I circled the same thing, and I had similar thoughts. I mean, so the idea of the job description of the city. So one thing that's not in the charter that the context, I think, in Anaheim, the city the city manage hires and a city manage hires and fires the the the librarian. That's that's from what I what for my for my own

Homework. So

once I saw this, like, okay. I gotta see what they're doing because that's a big one for us. Mean, we wanna make sure. So I think in that context, what they're saying is because the city manager is the person who's hiring and firing the, the librarians, the librarian, need help from the board on the all these other things. And that's how I read it. I mean, I'm just trying to put it in context of the whole thing.

So With the board reserve. Yeah. Right? To make sure that the library and is it making arbitrary decisions about the other positions? Like, it's a way

to counter Yeah. I mean, I'm just trying to get the whole And

I think just for the middle category, maybe we should put a slash next to maintain and maintain slash add because this seems like something we're kind of potentially pulling from the Anaheim charter and putting in. And it also allows room for if anyone else has any other things that they wanna add that isn't in any of the materials that can kinda be put up there.

So maybe k. Alright. Good. Anything else about the Anaheim that you one that is appealing or that you might wanna

What does what does a really mean? Make recommendations to the city council for the operation and conduct of city libraries. What are they saying? What would we what would you recommend to the city council? We want you to have more

That is not different.

Go ahead.

That is not as different from your your current

charter Right.

Operations about Recommendation. By laws, rules, and regulations for the protection of the sick. I just

because you noticed nothing in the in an high one is binding. It's all recommendation Right. Etcetera. There's nothing if there was something binding, that would stand out.

Yeah.

Yeah. I I think I appreciate that our That's okay. You know, we can talk about it later, but, like, our aim, which is, like, we get Right.

The last person, man.

Supposed to be setting up policies. It's not right recommendation. It's actually that, you know, we we help improve it.

And That's

That's what saying.

Are they

saying that these people go to the city council and say we recommend that the library

Goes on Sunday. Sunday. I'm just I mean, honestly, we can do that too, but I don't know if

what yeah. I don't know if that's that's not how we do it in the city, though.

I mean, I think, a, it's kind of it could be interpreted kinda broadly. All of these could technically be interpreted broadly ordinarily depending how Right. They decide to do it. But I think, a, I think could be said that we already do that in the sense that any recommendations you have, we pass on to staff who then pass on to councils. That could be interpreted to include it. It could also be interpreted to say that maybe they have a direct communication with the city council as a body. It could yeah. So it it it's kind of broad. I think maybe frame the discussion

Go ahead. Is So they actually clearly have a formal communication to counsel Yeah. Which is that that age. So within sixty days of the close of each fiscal year, they have a regular report to counsel.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so that is I don't know if you want something like that. So

that that one did stand out to me because of all the That's the most we've had few years of actually trying to be able to get on the council agenda and get the report out and, you know, just do that. I actually appreciated that there was a this says, yes. You give a report, and it is formal that there is some sort of report out and it's a time for that. So I actually I kinda like that

because You like that?

I I like that one because

How do you the rest of you feel about

that, Drew?

Do you do that anyway or or not?

You do not.

We we we want to do that. We wanna do that. Before haven't

been always been able to get on the agenda. So So even the work plan, as you know, was combined with everybody else's work plan and approved as a body, and that was it. So the time actually to speak, people could have spoken, like, you know, I told you about it. It doesn't necessarily mean that we wanted to force you to come to talk about it, but that would have been the ideal time to talk about it. Now having said that, they approved it on a consent. They did not pull it out. They didn't do really anything with it because it was a big body of information. They just blessed it, basically. And it it's not so much they trust you. That really, that's what it means. So they re received and filed the report.

I I I I think the challenge is, like, we we talked about the formality report, but, like, it took us so many years to even get our work plan Right. Then in the first one, that that's more my concern. Like, even if we just had a report as we do report every year and they they somebody can file it, but at least somebody Mitchell, they trust us and they will did. The fact that it took us three years to you know, we kept generating work plan over and over again, right, and submitting it, like, let's have the council see it. They didn't see it for this might be a way to somehow formalize it. They will at get the council, right, within a timely manner within a year. Right? That's something Even if it's not a verbal report, there's some value to that.

So is that something you might wanna that you're thinking about adding that there's a formal

A formal, like, relationship where we have, like, a yearly report or something we we give. Yeah.

Yeah. I I would say it's a definitely an ad. I think if I'm hearing all this correctly, this allows this kind of a legal scaffolding, so to speak

Yes. To force them To add it to the Listen.

Charter says we have to do this, and we're doing it. And they they got it now. Look at it. Yeah. So That's my question. Well

No. Like, it's reality. I

know it. Yeah. I know.

Are they gonna care what the Charter says? I mean, are we gonna get

But but that's

manager to do because that's where

It means all that's all we can do. I think I mean, in the end, I I'm yeah. It it adds to

Okay.

Something that's probably

Put it on the ad list.

Right. No. I I agree.

Yeah. Formal reporting to city council is what I wrote on there. Now you don't it doesn't have to be as direct and specific about sixty days fiscal

Yeah. I I I think it'd be good, like, even if it's just, like, we have a formal, like, once a year, we shall give an update, and, like, once a like, if we you figure out how to word it for, like, fiscal year, from the city year.

You'll notice, though, that all of the other ones don't have something like that. So actually that actually if it if it passes or if it the wording, you know, comes to pass, that actually would give you the leverage that there needs to be an engagement.

Okay. The council would want that. They they may. Yeah.

They may. I mean, I think it's gonna go through the charter review process, but this is one of the you know, thanks thank you, Wen, again, for actually bringing it to our attention that they were looking at this. Because you we didn't know actually, the charter committee is actually doing their own thing. Right? So they're looking at different other things, but they do wanna hear from you. So that's the basis for this. Right? Is to get all of the different ideas together, not necessarily to have it written in stone language wise, but concepts. Yeah. Okay?

I I will say I did at least one city council member asked me,

why haven't we got anything from

the library board for so long? And I was like, hey. I had to let them know. So this at least formalize it. That's why.

Well, I think we all know the answer to that. But Yep. We're moving forward.

And then, hopefully, it won't be a problem in the future. And the budget one I thought was interesting, not from the necessary that I necessarily want us to go through the budget line item, but it like, that was one of the big issues when it came to, like, talking about funding is having a chance to review that so we get understood what we're advocating for because, like, that was one of the big things pushing as one of our agenda

items. Right?

So I don't know if that needs formality or not. But I honestly wanna Yeah. Go through the whole approval because that that is a very administrative thing. I don't know if all of us wanna go sit through and look at the budget. I assume probably not.

And, generally, when when the budget process happens, we do appraise you of all of the different things that go into it, and then you see kind of the middle part, and then you see the end part. Right?

So I appreciate that we get that feedback from you. I don't know that if there's a way that we should have an ordinance, maybe an unchartered or something that that is a part of the process because

Formality is okay. So if you recall, one of your questions was parks and rec actually has it in their charter that they actually review their budget. We will tell you that actually the review of their budget is not what you think it is. It is exactly the same process that we give you now from the library, pretty much, except they put it in a formal RTC with all of the different things that are listed in terms of the big city budget. But the parks and rec super smaller budget, that's not actually something they review in a formal way with the Parks Commission.

Yeah. So I you know, correct me if I'm wrong. Okay. So we do that already with you. So the issue is that it's not I wouldn't say I mean, I think it's a it's it's an expectation that you have with library staff.

If you expect library staff to do this, and we would always do this. Even Hillary, I believe, did it with with you folks before me. Maybe not as in-depth, but certainly, I know she did a little bit because I've seen the paperwork. So the other part though is that I think there's kind of an undercurrent of of expectation that you would have from your library staff. The budget being one of them.

Yeah. I think review and feedback though is something that actually Sammy and I were talking about it that we would wanna change the process a little bit to give you more information earlier on so we could get that feedback from you, and then you see the iterative process of this as opposed to giving straight in the middle. If we give it to you straight in the middle, we've already gone through the process. Right? If we give it to you at the beginning and say, okay, we're doing the kickoff with the budget.

This is kinda what it looks like. Here's the ground rules that we have to deal with, and here's what our concerns are right now and where we are. And then we give you the feedback, continued feedback. We were actually thinking that we would actually even think about a subsection of every meeting that we have to talk about the budget. I mean, truly. Because it's an annual process.

And and I've appreciated the process we've had, and Yeah. I think that that's actually been valuable to understand how the lie the library's needs are so that we can go advocate with counsel or whatever as necessary to Okay. Budget that that's there. So that was one that stood out to me as I don't know how to capture that, but, like, making sure that's formal because, like, I I appreciate that you're doing with us today, but I don't know.

You don't take that after me, that's gonna happen.

Text to the librarian. Will they continue to do it? I don't know.

So remind remember, though, that oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Oh, sorry. Just just wanna kind of call it what I'm hearing to see if Yeah. Kind of what trustees are hoping for is is the hope that we formalize some sort of process for the trustees to have an opportunity to provide feedback during the budgetary process. Is that the the hope?

Is that what you wanna do in real life? I mean so let me just kinda clarify because this is a formal document that we're looking at as opposed to exactly what you wanna have happen. Feedback on the budget could be part of that. It is certainly part of Parks and Rec, what is currently in their charter. They may change that, I will tell you. I'm just saying this out loud. But it there's a little bit that goes into if it's just feedback and review, I think that's that's probably very acceptable. Yep. If it's beyond feedback and review, that gets into administrative. Yeah. So I just kind of want us to be very careful if that's the line you wanna cross.

I I for for my my what what I'm trying say is, like, I'd like to clarify feedback and review. What I don't wanna have is that we must approve the budget, and we are something like that. I don't necessarily want to put into language from, like, you know, part of the stamping process before it goes to the next part of the city manager, but I'd like to be able to give feedback and review as part of the process and, you know, you you you know, the will take that, and staff will take that process back.

Lindsay, do wanna add anything to that?

I'm not sure what the right word that is.

So the feedback would be the staff, not to the council?

We could we could also get feedback. I I assume the council, but during

the Well, as a body, you can do that all

the time. We could do that anytime. Right? But

When do you have any comments on that?

I I think I think we I think I understand what what the the hope is, but maybe we can just add it to the might like Okay. For now, and then kinda see what the consensus is at the end for for all of the the ones in that category.

Just trying figure out how to, like, word that is because, like, the other thing I could see is, like, trying to say, you actually must approve the budget because I did I looked at some other city library boards, and they they actually have, like they there was one I looked at that where the president and the director of the library will, like, do the budget together, and that was, like, in their bylaws. And I was like, don't I don't wanna get down and, like, picking out staffing and how many FTEs we need or, you know, whatever. Like, that's I don't think what we wanna do, but I certainly would like to understand what is the budget, what it is, give some feedback as to what program, and maybe some stuff that we think is helpful. And then we can also having that process, we can also then give feedback to the council.

And the the the feedback the the main sort of core that I'm kind of drawing out from what you're saying, trustee Evans, is that the the feedback would be the opportunity to provide feedback would be at a at a time in which that it would still be considered by city staff and city manager to incorporate it in the budget process. That is that the goal?

Yeah. Yeah. And

in some levels, we might you might have done that anyway because we have the advocacy for the return and the restoration of the collection development budget. Yep. Right? And we had a real number, and that's what you asked for. Okay. Okay.

Yep. And those are the things that, I guess, stood out for me from this particular walk Okay. Because I went through it just like I said, I I I did look at a couple other libraries. I think Santa Monica's was one I looked at just as a reference. That one was very sparse, if I remember. Their duties were very

It is very advisory.

Yeah. Very advisory. And then I looked at actually a place I was familiar with growing up, which was Hennepin County Library Board. They're and that was one that is much more formal. They do the budgets. They actually get paid

Well, it's an administrative board.

But it's a it's a full on administrative board. It's a much

The Hennepin? Hennepin County. Yeah.

In Minnesota. So Minneapolis. Oh. Yeah. I'm gonna

Yep.

Hennepin County.

Yeah. The the the the they all they're all picked by the the folks are appointed by the the county, but then once they're appointed, they have a lot of responsibilities to

They do indeed.

Compared to most of our many ones. And and I think that was maybe I was looking at one. I like, okay. That's maybe a little more on the full administrative, and I don't think any of I'm not it's not where I just, like, think Okay. To go. I'm giving Citi's view that.

Anything else about Anaheim that is appealing to people so we don't I don't wanna just gloss it over because they are looking at it, but we haven't taken a deep dive in this one. Anything else?

Just to review the because I went to the was in the bathroom.

Last point we added is feedback and review.

Feedback and review library budget. Yeah.

Yeah. I was about to say, when I was about to meet, which I think you made a good point that, we should add language to the charter in case a, future library refuses to go over the budget with a future board.

Okay.

Or I think it also just sets clear expectations for staff so they know the Yeah. What the expectations. What the expectations. Okay. And then

Good. Good. Good. Alright. So with that, let's move back to the if we could, back to our the thing that we know better, which is the charter and the and the ordinance. And what we're gonna do is probably go through each line, and you're gonna say one of those three buckets. Right? Like Yep. Would really like to maintain, you know, we're not sure. And then, nope. You know what? We've actually talked about it enough and we need to kinda put it in. It's not as important to us anymore. Okay? Should we do that? Yep.

So, John, question, could could you define the difference between an ordinance and a charter?

Do you wanna do that? We we did we do have language about that to read to you if you

I I just for us.

But they went went up in kind of plain language. So kind of if you think about, like, how the federal government is is set up, so a charter is almost like the constitution, and ordinance is kind of like regulations, kind of regulations or laws where it's kind of implementing the concepts that

in the the bigger picture.

Doesn't really need understand the two buckets of

Can't change the charter, but that's fine. Right? Wanna do But they're changing the city charter now.

Or Yeah. The charter needs a review committee Right. Of They have to recommend city council split it a vote, and then it has to go to a referendum to the city. Yeah. Whereas an ordinance, city council could just pass it as well. But it's

still

So Right.

But it's still a law that has to be changed.

Yeah. Yeah. They are.

Will. So

So the ordinance in nineteen nineties it was established in 1997 that established these these eight items, the ordinance part. And the reason why it was done, and it was done by staff. It was not done by the Board of Library of Justice. The reason why so Karen Roland Duffy, who may be familiar name to you, she actually led that process because the change there was a change in the staffing, and they had a different organization. And so in order to make it maybe right sized in terms of alignment with what the board normally did right then is reflected here.

So this actually did go by council. It got approved unanimously. We even know who was there at the time when it happened. So Michael Downey was the city attorney and see, it was approved by it was under Jennifer Sparacino's time. So as you can imagine, I think Lisa's father was actually on on the the city council at that time.

But there there are common names, Arno. There's a lot of common names that were on there. Anyway, they voted it unanimously, but it was it was actually directed at the staff's request that this be changed. And so this is a legal document that accompanies this other one because the the charter was out of outdated, and she did not have the authority to call a vote to get things changed. So this is the opportunity.

Okay. So if you can think about it, the charter was way back when. Right? And then in 1997, the director of the library came up with, you know, with a with I'm sure she worked with the board, but this was at not at the board's endeavor. This was actually at the staff's endeavor that things were changing at the way the board actually was working. So she just put together the language about how the board was was working So which was different from the charter.

As part of this review, alright, Can we change the ordinance or that's staying and what will

we change? So here's the opportunity. The reason why there's a charter amendment review committee is because this is the opportunity to codify any changes to the language.

Of the ordinance?

Neither. Okay. Both.

Okay.

So The ordinance is up for review and change.

The ordinance is sitting there as an as an authorized document in 1997 for what the board was deemed to be appropriate in doing that was very different from the charter.

Is there an ordinance for all the other commissions? No. Just okay. So this is unique to the library.

Well, I think there may be other I mean, we didn't do that much study because we were looking at ours. So to be honest, I don't of the other ones as well. It? Yeah. Okay. Okay.

That that was something that I did see in I have, which was, like, in addition to the starter, there could be some ordinances that add new things that are it but then I also like languages not inconsistent with what is in the

Right.

Which I think was actually some very careful language that helps maybe resolve ambiguity we might have today as to get you get you documents prevail if there's a problem.

And, you know, I think in '97, they did a whole bunch of those. It's not wasn't just ours. I think there were a lot of other things that that the charter represents that that that maybe wasn't inconsistent. Anyway, so that's why we're looking at both language today. It's not it it's not inconsistent with what the what do you think you

can call. Maybe this question is attorney is, like, after the charter's update, and I assume one of the, like, goals is that any ordinances that are affected by that would also get updated to be consistent. So we wouldn't have a

In theory, yes. But the it would be especially important if there were charter changes for any sections that were in conflict with any ordinances. So if there's ordinances that could be interpreted in line with the charter as it's newly approved by the referendum, then there might be some updates. But the main priority will be if there's some drastic change where the ordinance has to be changed so that there's not an obvious conflict. So

I'm still confused. You have a set of ordinances and the the charter items. Should we assume that we're merging the two, or does it make sense with something in the charter that's already in the ordinance?

My thought, I don't know, would be that things that go to the charter are things we wanna make sure are more permanent. Right? Because as you mentioned, this has not been done forever a long time. That will be and then those powers are something that we think are we wanna allow flexibility so the city council could vote, then that would be something that'll be even in Oregon soon.

And I think kind of another way to look at it is if you're kind of the charter review is more focused on kind of the big overarching concepts that you want to kind of be enduring, of getting to what chair Evans yet said. And then the ordinance is kind of more for interpreting. So kind of if if you all are and if the voters decide that there's a need big change that needs to happen to the charter ordinance, then kinda naturally staff will kind of have to update the ordinance to to be in line with whatever that big change. But are we going to be simultaneously changing both at the same time? No. Because it's the the charter is is what's being considered right now.

So we should we should think of this as this is our chance to update the charter to make sure that it's consistent, and then the ordinance, they are not gonna update it later to to match what's in the charter.

Yes. And I think it's also if if you all like parts of the ordinance or, like, ordinance as it is, you're it it's you're welcome to kind of incorporate that into your your thinking in your viewing of of the charter as well. So it's it's it's relevant, but you don't need to to worry about the the language in the ordinance necessarily right now.

So should we start the charter? We can start with the charter. I think the issue that Glenn mentioned to me is that if there's something in the in the ordinance that you think is would like to maintain and actually put it in the charter language, now would be the time to two counts.

K.

That actually is the biggest issue. Because the charter is a is I mean, it's an evergreen document. On the other hand, we don't get to change it that often. And so because it takes a vote of the people, he wants to make sure that it includes the concepts of the things that you wanna maintain right now as we move further. Now it's not just today. This is decades from now. We're not gonna change this again, like, in fifteen years or even forty years because it takes you know, this takes a lot to go to a to a vote.

Yeah.

It's expensive. It takes a lot to review it. We wanna do it right the first time. And so the issue is it's it's been a while since this since this was looked at, so let's look at it again. And we have the opportunity for reshaping it if you in any way you think is is a good idea.

Yeah. Because one takeaway, like, when I looked at the two was, like, the you know, we have our charter a, right, which is very broad. Like, I looked at the ordinance, and some of that seems like guidance as to when you're doing the bylaws and regulations. Here are some thoughts that you should keep keep, you know, and, like, stuff like make providing balanced library collections and services which represent the diverse perspectives of the community. That's kind of saying, like, as you make bylaws, make sure you support diverse collections and a diverse community as opposed to just, you know, making restrictive bylaws that, you know, shut people off. Right? So that's, I think, a clarification, but it's maybe giving extra direction there. It may be something like that.

So remember when these were also devised? They may not have been thinking about multicultural communities. They might not have been thinking about the diversity that we share right now, the values, the same values that we have. So if that's and if they're important to you, and

that's There's no chance.

For you know, I mean, there's a lot of different things about this, Then you might wanna retain some of that language and put it in perpetuity. Okay. So what we're gonna do is go through every section in the charter, and you're and then we're gonna actually put them in the buckets. Okay? Make sure everybody understands what it means, and then if there's a bucket that you want to put it in, and then have discussion about it, and then decide. Yes. Maybe one of these three, maybe. Okay. So section ten twelve is Board of Library Trustees. There shall be a Board of Library Trustees consisting of five members to be appointed by the city council from the qualified electors.

Now I did mention to you that Glenn did say to me, as an aside, that that word qualified electors, they may be taking care of it. But if you have a comment on it, don't don't hesitate. Okay? Of the city, and no member of said board shall hold any paid office or employment in the city government. So so the the five members. Right? Qualified electors, and then no conflict of interest, basically.

I think the only feedback well, a cup couple of pieces of feedback. Like, generally, that seems yeah. We should maintain that. But the electors, I I don't have a problem with qualified electors or whatever language the city decides appropriate for electors. I'm I'm okay with whatever gets decided generally from my at least my perspective. I don't think it has to be qualified electors if that's where we're going. And then my other feedback on this was, I think it's consistent that all the boards are not paid office or city employees. That's is that consistent across the other boards as well that city employees are not members? Or

Yeah. I believe it is consistent across all all boards.

Okay. And then I guess the only thing that I think is open for me is more open is we have five members right now, and that's great. But should we consider a is there is there value in having a larger board that makes things like quorum easier because you you need you have more people to choose from. So you get more people could be absent. Like, right now, if three of us are gone, like, we can't really

But they don't

If you have seven people, we could sell more than three. So it's it's see. Gets more people. But it's more people to find. So that's the that's that's

the Discuss and go you know, meetings could go on for hours and everything.

You know? I I when I looked around just in California and elsewhere, particularly in California, seven seems to be more common. There are places that have 11 for big city and San Jose, meaning. Yeah. San Jose.

So I I I'm in favor of increasing that seven strongly, because, you know, one of them's out. Things happen. I think seven. I know it's it's more like you said, it's seven people to contact, some people to work with. But I like that buffer, personally, to have more people on the board for not only for reasons about just the number, but continuity.

So, you know, speaking for myself, I have not been able to take on more work because of my own circumstances. But there's only that many people to go around. It seems like, you know, it also depends on how much higher people have. And the seven means there's more to go around, hopefully. So that's my that's my I would I would like the second.

No. I think I think that's a might. Let's let's just double check. Do how do you all feel about five or seven? I mean, it has to be an uneven number. That's for what I've heard. Yeah. Right? It can't be six.

Yeah. Yeah. That's something we'll just look at ties with the main core. Was all.

Well, the the other thing to think about is that the city is bigger now than it was before. So how do you represent other parts of the city if you don't have more numbers? But I I don't wanna reflect you know, I Frankly

I agree with your comments, and and they said that it would be a better number given that makes I've seen other commissions like that. Our a lot of the other commissions are seven. Some are even bigger. The ones that are smaller, it's much harder to to meet, and I I I think having more numbers opinion on your small board. And recruiting people is that you know, it's just I guess, it's partly our problem, but it's also the city council's, you know, challenge to get for people. But I think that's Yeah. I mean,

I was just thinking It just gives us my dear year and a half or so here. So there's five of us, and if you have a subcommittee, that's half the board.

It's not

I mean to be fair.

Yeah. So But it's like, we don't have enough people.

And you can't have a subcommittee bigger than two because then you

have Okay. Right. So are we are so is that a might be interested, or is that would like?

Would like.

I'm asking because Debbie didn't feel that way. So I just are you good?

Daniel, my concern

is It's about Daniel.

Yeah. The boards might like because I think we should talk maybe talk this over with the councils and they're the ones in charge of appointing who if we expand the board, they are the ones in charge of when whoever fills those two additional splits.

Yeah.

I would but you I think it is a compelling point for represent to your point about representation. It's hard for us to claim to represent the city if it was smaller than city council.

Because we actually have less members of those districts.

I just my concern is finding seven people. Yeah.

But I don't think we have

to have that. We haven't had enough time getting people to apply. Finding seven people, and will they be seven people that represent all areas of the city or people that the council want on the library board?

So I actually don't think we're gonna have that harder time trying to find people, because the staff will get involved in processing that. And I don't think we've spent that much time helping you recruit, frankly. Okay. I know about five or six people that are interested in running right now. So the issue is not so much, are there not people out there? I think the issue is maintaining the upkeep and everything else. And I I don't doubt that I don't think council's gonna quibble too much about this, but city city home, maybe. I don't know if the city is city manager's office might find a little where

be advised the reason we're doing this is to represent more of the city.

Oh, yeah. I think you're gonna put you're we're gonna write that in and include that in the notes. Sammy, if do you want I can do this if you wanna write the background because I'm not gonna be able to capture all of that stuff.

I I think I I will at least my my my thought is, you know, could we consider moving this to the would like to maintain I mean, city council is gonna be able to give feedback on this too. And if they come back and say, no. No. No. You stay at five because we don't wanna deal with the recruiting. Great. That's our prerogative. I'll wait for their feedback. But I I think that from our perspective as a board, we should be either giving clear direction like, yeah. We'd really like seven or hey. Maybe seven's okay. I I I think it sounds like, at least from my opinion, I I would like to vote toward, yeah, let's give the direction of v one seven. This is the opportunity. And this is our opportunity. And if if for some reason there's a reason that doesn't work out, we'll hear feedback from other folks, you know, if that's that's the way

No. Just process wise, just to remind us, this is not going to city council. This is going to the ad hoc committee that is working with the charter review committee. They're gonna make the recommendation moving forward. If they decide, actually, this is not something that they wanna support, they will not move that forward. Yeah. I'm just sharing that with you. I mean, I'm not saying that yes or no. I'm just saying that if they don't concur with that, I don't believe they're gonna move it forward. I think they're gonna give notes as to all of those things that were important to you, But but they also have to have a final product that they have.

I think that's why it's helpful for us to give them

Oh, yeah. No. No. No. Definitely.

Right. Is is that way they know that we're not just saying, hey. Like, we're saying, yeah. We really think Okay. We're gonna be helpful for us. Good. And then they can go if you know, if they decide for other reasons that doesn't work, then we can't

Okay. So what we're gonna do with all of these, just to kinda let you know, is that have background notes behind it so that you have your talking points about what.

So I I I think all the ones just probably brought up were great, which is, like, it's a combination of representation, but also just being able to have the process and, you people.

So Okay. So Thank you. K. Alright. So we're done with section 12 ten twelve. Shall we move on? Okay. Section ten thirteen, powers and duties. The board of library trustees shall have charge of the administration of the Santa Clara Free Public Library and shall have power and be required to. Now, do you agree with that sentence? No.

No. We were

Okay. Or in charge of the administration. Okay. So I think that's actually what we talked about last time, is that the word administration really means administration. And so this really is in conflict with current operations. So I you know, I don't know if it's up to you. Do you wanna say advisory? Do you wanna I mean, what what would you like to do?

Say so. Provide guidance to the administration.

Okay. That's good. Anything anybody else?

Maybe guidance of the administration.

Words. Something guidance of okay. Anything Yes. Just Okay. Guidance Guidance recommendations, but you don't like the word administration. Am I correct?

Well, administration. You're right. As Bert

Big a. As opposed to little a. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I'm figuring in charge in charge of. I don't like that. Well, having charge of Having charge is like responsibility.

Yeah.

Right? Not taking charge the administration.

No. We've changed that. Yeah. So so I think I think And that's what I think we

may do. So the big like, I I think of the incorrect statement of administration, I was just thinking we shall have charge of the library, which is responsibility for, and then shall have power and be required to. So maybe this will just strike the administration part.

And I think k. Just to kind of

So it's clear that, like, we're gonna

Well, the charge charge of what?

Library? Oh, no. We're not

Charge of are you in charge of the library?

No. No.

Saying advisory. You're saying Yes. So if you say something like the board of library trustees shall guide and recommend, I don't know, policies, whatever. Sorry.

I'm gonna say to the city librarian and vote and

I think I think what I'm concerned about is, like, the daily administration, I agree, we're not in charge of. So how do we clarify that? And welcome whatever language is recommended by No. I feel that I mean I but what I'm worried about is relaxing what we're like, our responsibility so that it's entirely saying we're just recommending because I don't wanna say that we're just recommending bylaws. I would

like to be But that's the reality.

That's We don't have to once again, the charter is what responsibility we should have. If somebody is if something's inconsistent with that, it's not necessarily it could be we're running a thing. Right? So I think it's helpful that, you know, we recommend recommending means that we could go tell Patty, we think this should be the policy and vote on it, and then she could completely ignore everything we do. Right. Like, she doesn't, but I would like to make sure that that's not how we run some of the other rules. Right? I like the fact that we are supposedly setting the balls. Right? We're looking at forty years, potentially.

Yeah. So so but the let's think about it this

But I also don't wanna say, we're doing all the administration and and what

So in concept, though, I I I believe how we currently operate is that your you work as an advisory body to help the library administer library services. How you do that could involve making policy. There's nothing that says that you don't make policy. However, you're making policy and recommending it to counsel. And that's one of the reasons when we have those policy review, and we said, okay.

This one is going to go to counsel. This one is more internal. We went through all of that stuff with you. So the things that went to counsel is where you made changes and recommendations. We forward that to counsel. They approve. Okay?

Why? One question I never understood about that process is why did we have to forward to council? Because it's not clear that it's required. But

Some of it is required by to so let's let's take the collection development policy. Okay. The reason why you had to approve that as a body normally, you actually do approve that as a body. But the reason why it went to council is because we actually had to take it to council as a recommended document that we were gonna forward to the state library for a legal proceeding. And the legal proceeding was to protect the right of our library to be able to collect and not be and to be exonerated from any ill will towards our collection. Do you remember that?

But yeah. I do. Okay. But I'm I what I don't understand was why is the city council the one that has approved that versus the library board?

It was actually instructed in the in the legislation.

The city councils had Absolutely.

That's why it was So so what

about library boards that didn't aren't approved to the city councils?

Well, they have to go through their administrative body, whatever that is. So the administrative body in that particular it could have been

That's why it

in a county, it could be the county board of supervisors. It for in our particular city, it's the city council.

Okay. Because I I know there you could technically also have an independent library. Right?

Correct. They would go through their JPA. Okay. Okay? So it has to go through their administrative body for sanction for for approval in that process. Okay. So some some policies, you actually have some influence where it's a real formal process, and then you pass that on for adoption by counsel. That's that's an example. Some policies should just do internal with us, and and that's a part of our administrative role in terms of following process. Right?

So I was trying

So you can still do this and be an advisory body. You don't have to be an administrative body to create suggestions and changes to bylaws and policy. Okay? You don't. So you can still do that.

Let's get back to ten thirteen.

Okay. So ten thirteen shall have charge of the administration of the Santa Clara Free Library on its face value.

First of all, we never use the word free anywhere else, so I don't know why that's there.

Because that was the name at the beginning of the charter, so you might wanna change it.

Right. So we wanna change that.

Okay. So let's change that. Is that good? That we our actual library name officially is in the state of California is the Santa Clara City Library.

Yes. We should probably change it to Santa. That's the So

I think what we're do is, like Sorry.

You're gonna change.

That's correct.

You agree to change it. Change to actual formal name. Name. So remember, this is all language. This is why it says free library.

Updating into the twenty first century.

Yes. It's from Philadelphia. History Library is actually pretty interesting.

Okay. Anything else you wanna change about 10/13, that first clause? The very first sentence.

If we read to it, shall have shall make reckon shall guide the administrate. Right? To have charge of, we have to get rid of

Okay. So let's let's do this real quick. Let's not wordsmith too much. Concept wise, do you wanna share that you have advisory capacity as regards to the powers and duties of the library? Or would you rather say administration? That's really a a quick thing. Advisory administration. Yes.

Can change it. We have yes. We have to do advisory.

So so in principle and in in practice, it has been advisory. There's no question about it. I do think there's something to what is saying about there's a part of that administration. That word is very strong, and we It is very strong. Not administer the library. On the

other

hand, if you take that all out, there is absolutely, at some point, with someone else, no accountability.

Unless, of course, you change the clauses to identify the specific duties that you might have that might be quasi administrative, but not totally administrative. So that's I'm that with you because that might be the middle ground that you're talking about in terms of what you like to maintain. Administration starting with administration to the library means that you're responsible for the budget, you're responsible for maintaining our staffing levels.

Yeah.

Of You're responsible I mean, I I am just telling you, if I read that, and I did when I came here and I said, are we an administrative body? And, of course, I was assured that that was not the case. And I said, okay. But that's not what it says. And so I was expecting actually to give you, you know, really long presentations about the budget, how we formed, that kind of thing.

But so I was very happy necessarily. Because, actually, administrative bodies have a very hard time. The staff spend about 50% of all of their time preparing the packets for an administrative body because there's just so much, and it's long. It's like being in a city council meeting because you have to make all decisions based on the fiscal responsibility of your job. Now, I don't think anybody signed up for that.

Right? Mhmm. Okay. So I think if we agree that administration is very strong in this language, you can you don't have to say advisory, but you can soften this so that it's their expectation is not there. But you can include information in the clauses that actually still maintain the levels that you want in terms of authority. Okay? Shall we look at it from that perspective? Is that if that's okay? Okay. So yes.

Oh, yeah. I yeah. I think they should look at that in the middle, Brian. Going to some points. Yeah. We do need I agree that we need to perhaps change the verbaging language of the chart to reflect reality. But at the same time, I'm worried that completely moving for administrative, as Lin says, might weaken our ability to hold to maintain accountability for Lightroom.

So what kind of accountability would you like to have that you believe is administrative and overarching?

I mean, b number right there.

Okay.

It was a big part.

Leave that in there. Yeah.

Yeah. And that, I think, we'll just Yeah.

I that's where we're worried about saying it's advised, like, changing the early like, I'm okay striking administration, by the way. And it was just I was concerned more about adding advisory or rec like, something that doesn't say that, yes, the buck stops here for improvement of the just to improvement of library.

Okay. So let's see. Thing, and because this is harder.

Yeah. That's a harder Let's

just jump to the clauses. Yeah. Maybe talk to the clauses.

I think

So made an and enforce such bylaws, rules, and regulations as it may deem necessary for now, the administration and protection of the library. It's not it's okay to leave administration in there because it's really pertinent to the bylaws and the processes. Okay. So do you like that one?

I think yes. Yes.

I think we're doing that. Right?

So we wanna maintain b. Right?

Yeah. A. A. Oh,

a. Two, but b as well. Yes. Seven.

Plus a.

Yeah. We we've the collection, like, collection development policy

and things like that. But she brought that to us.

So that's what these little green cards are. Is that

a nib? I mean, I'm just if we're gonna take this literally, I don't know that we do that. Okay.

And I

think Yes.

To kind of help the discussion a little bit. Yeah. Necessarily to, like Patty said earlier, to. You can just talk about concepts.

So if,

yeah, words on the paper are not adequately expressing what you want, you can just put it in your own words, and then we can kind of put it on there. Well, I just wanna make

sure what they're expressing is true.

That's what was my point.

That's not making and enforcing bylaws.

Well, just because you actually don't do it doesn't mean that you haven't or won't do it in the future. K. No? Yes? Mhmm.

This doesn't say that we have to enforce and make every bylaw. Right? We just we have the we we can make the list. Okay.

There's a maintenance mode there. And listen.

Okay. And then

I think I heard loud and clear that you wanna be involved in the process, so number b, approve or disapprove the appointment of a librarian who shall be the department. Okay. Now, let me just ask this question because it will be asked. We know that you want to be part of the selection. What if you would it do you wanna have the soul say, or would you like it to be a collaborative process? I think that's a real question.

Collaborative.

It's better. I mean, okay. I'll be this is now when I'm gonna actually tell you why why I feel this way.

What do you mean by when say collaborative? So

collaborative is so this is the outside of the elected body, which is the city clerk, right, and our sheriff, right, this is the only position where the city manager, technically technically now, does not have any say in what happens because of this.

Mhmm.

Now, I will tell you, as someone who has been in libraries for more than forty years, I have never had a poor relationship with my city manager or my county administrator. But there's a reason for that. It's based on relationships. The relationship actually ensures, whether we like it or not, the fiscal and success of the library. If you have an adversarial relationship with your and I've seen it happen in a lot of other places that I have been witness to but not part of, which is really good.

If you are at at odds with your city or county leadership, you put library of parole. You just do. That's just the way it is. Now because in this particular city, we are a city that we're a general funded department. If we were a JPA, I would not talk to you about this.

But the fact is that we rely on city leadership to put together the budget. So what I'm sharing this with you is that there isn't a natural inclination to want this process to be as collaborative as as possible. So you can get the best person for the job, but also a collaborative person. Because the city manager I mean, technically I mean, he and I have had lots of conversations about it. I could do whatever I wanted and not go through him because that's what this kind of infers.

But that's not the way we get things done in the city. Right? So I will say that this creates a little bit of a wedge. And that's what I mean by the wedge, which is why it's not so much that what this doesn't say is how it's done. It it puts all of the responsibility on the board. I will tell you, you don't want to go. You don't wanna take do you wanna go and and actually help recruit the next city librarian? I don't think you do. I think you need the help of HR, and I think you need the help of the city. And that's what is not conveyed in this process.

So what I would share with you is if we soften this a little bit and actually share that the board should be or must be part of the selection of the city librarian is much easier than saying because, you know, there's no other board there's no other board or commission actually that does this. No other board. Just So cool. Right? It is cool.

So if you actually still maintain the relationship and specify that the board has to be involved in the process, I think you'll be fine. But that leaves it open that it's a collaborative process as opposed to a directed process. Do you see what I'm saying? Now, having said that in real life, you didn't hire the headhunter. You did you were involved in the process. You had a a responsible individual representing you. But you can change what that looks like. You could have, you know, you could have two people. You know what I mean? As long as you don't break the quorum.

That's the that's the other part of this whole thing, which is why five is a little awkward. But you could so then if you went up to seven, you could have three people involved in the process. But I don't think you wanna stipulate what the process looks like. I think you just wanna say that the board must be involved in the selection.

I guess there are kinda two aspects of that that I think and Anaheim kind of help inspires some of that is. I wanna make sure that the board is included early in the process so we're able to give feedback both on job description and and in the case of, like, your crew data. I think Steve participated in actual Yeah. Interview process, all that. And I wanna make sure that that process we have that sort of level of Yeah. Feedback. So I think that was important

to have. And it's interesting. That's the reality that happened despite of what it says there.

So And I also like, my first meeting was actually, I believe, the one where we were approving the the head librarian at that point. And and what I did like is that even after they found a candidate, that candidate had to go to us for final approval. And that was the thing I liked about the process is that everybody on the board it wasn't just everybody on the board got that final vote to go and do it. And so I'd like to try to keep that process. Now if there's a way to soften language to reflect that this, you know, HR and the city manager and that is gonna help with the recruiting process, great.

You know, I I I totally appreciate that, but I I I like those two parts, which was that, you know, there was inclusion, but I like to figure out how to require that inclusion so that if we get a different city manager, maybe he's interested in collaborating, you know, that then we have a different discussion we have. Like, if the city manager is not following the process, then there's a discussion to have with city council about the city manager not doing their job.

I wouldn't feel qualified to make that decision. Would you hire him? I mean, I would like like your sticking put. I wouldn't want us file for a we'd wanna hire. I don't think that's I don't think that would be right, especially because of the city connection. You have you don't want a librarian that the city council doesn't like and assume anything. It doesn't like what we like. And that's not gonna get anything.

Now having said that, the council actually did not have any say. I mean, you know that already. Right? I mean, I've been in processes where the board of supervisors said to me, how do we want you? And I said but they did it in front of everybody. Right? So anyway, the so what I wrote here is I kept this, not necessarily as language, but as concept. Okay? And then I said, require board inclusion in the selection. So that could mean a lot of things. And I think if we wanna keep that as a concept and then we embellish this a little bit more, it might take more refinement

Yeah.

Then then if that's okay with you, we'll keep that on that side. Must maintain, right, as as a concept, but then we kind of think about what that what language might lead towards more specificity about inclusion.

Yeah.

But because it it sort of upended this way. And how it's been interpreted is that, yes, the board has the final say. But I think in terms of process, there's been collaboration to make that happen, but it's not defined enough for the city manager to actually understand that this is this is a separate process. This is, you know, an inclusion process as opposed to the board has some final say, we help them get there, but we don't have anything to do with it. Okay? So

Can we start up that sentence saying in collaboration with

the city Okay.

X city, whatever we wanna add there. Leave the rest of the language there.

Mhmm. Think.

Yeah? In collaboration with the city manager, HR, whoever the act I don't know what that is.

City administration.

I don't know. The city administration. And you he can even say in close collaboration. Make it a little stronger.

Alright. K. So I wrote

In close collaboration.

Close collaboration with city administration,

blah blah blah. I leave the rest of it.

Alright. Are we okay with that?

Let's soft these aligners and

include them.

Okay. Alright. Very good. So, Daniel, just to kinda go over that because you I know you have to leave. So the the idea was to include this, but to say in close collaboration with city administration, approve or disapprove the appointment of a of a librarian who shall be the department head. And then this way, it's inclusive, but it softens it a little bit, so it's not just the board's responsibility to do the selection, hiring, blah blah blah.

Okay? Yeah. It's been very

And it reflects the reality of when we we're hiring or firing a library, we have to go through all this bureaucracy, like, HR and was Right. And let the city council and manager inform. Keep

it Okay. Okay.

C, accept into the library fund and administrator administer money, personal property, or real estate donated to the city or otherwise acquired for library purposes, subject to the approval of the city council? Yes. You wanna continue to do that? No. You don't wanna continue to do that? Or do you wanna do something in the middle? What how important is that to you?

You've never done it. Right?

Nope. You do it all the time.

Yeah. But we just don't know about it. That was the painting. That's all I know.

Mean Painting's a question. It's

been on.

Yes. Exact. Here, we improve somebody's money. Somebody's Yeah.

Foundation. Oh, right.

Right. Right.

Right. Okay. Yeah.

So

Also, remind me again what happened to the time we got gifted those cuckoo clocks. So,

unfortunately, and just as a sidebar, it won't take very long. When I don't know if you if Luis briefed you about that, but it was so we got a bequest for two grandfather

Oh. Clocks. Grandfather.

Yeah. And two grandfather clocks. And what happened was by the time all of the assets were distributed, the clocks were missing. Oh. So somebody took them under their wing, and we never got them. Oh. Sorry. That's the answer. The answer is they weren't available. We believe that the family chose another purpose for those. So Okay. It's okay. It's okay. So let's let's talk about this. So know that what the reason why this might be a little bit outdated is because we have the foundation.

Yeah. Normally, any gift that we get either goes directly to them because we don't bring it here for actually dissection and approval unless it's of a substantial amount or it's something that directly came to the library for a specific purpose. And then we would ask you for permission to turn it over to the foundation.

So someone made a direct donation to the city for the use of a library. Is that the case where we would that's, like, the case where we would see something? Because I because you you can donate my understanding is as individuals, you can actually donate money to cities or, you know, directly. You don't have to go do, like, a donation.

Can That's that's absolutely Here's a donation.

Santa Clara City, Santa Clara. Here's my whatever. I mean, it's happened in the past. People donated, like, whole

So we have had that's where some of the the trust funds have come from. So we have had funds donated directly to the library. It's a little messy to have a separate account, like your piggy bank Yeah. Because the city doesn't really know what to do with that because we don't spend it every year. Right? In fact, we have a substantial amount sitting in there right now that this the city is kinda going because it's we sit on it. We don't really have a place to spend it. So it's for us, it's a lot easier just to have the it go to the foundation, and then it comes back to us in terms of programs and services. Right? I'm not saying you get rid of it. I'm just saying that right now, currently, you don't do a whole lot of this.

For that one, I was gonna ask the thought process is like, if if we didn't if we just say, hey, let's plan and have to approve for one of these, what would be the process then? It would just go to, like, to the city finance

There there is your

There is a process for receiving gifts.

A policy, a city policy like, a council policy. If you look it up on a website that kind of outlines both kind of gifts in kind, like, actual goods and also, like, money where it's it goes there is a system process outlined for for giving to the city as a whole.

I mean, it's certainly interesting when somebody donates something to hear about it, but I don't know if I care that we understand every time somebody gives money to the library if there's

I think it would be sometimes a little busier than normal, just kind of and it would actually slow the process for us receiving the item.

Yeah. So from from my perspective, that's when I would be not as interested. I'd be fine striking that because there's already a process by which stuff will get to library whether we do this or not. I love to hear about it in, like, you know, when it happens, but not that

It would give back to the authority to the library to actually receive the item and to work through the process, and then distribute it as as accordingly as we need to.

Is this an opportunity to formalize a a connection with foundation or no?

You'd have to work with the foundation to formalize process with them.

Right. But we're looking at the charter and

trying trying to So remember you have a so we have put in for you. In our strategic plan, there is a formal relationship there between the friends and the found the friends and the foundation and you. Mhmm. And we've actually talked about it being

Ongoing.

An ongoing fundraising friend raising relationship already.

I guess my feedback is this is something I would just return the flexibility back to the city administration. That's what I would And and I then then we don't have to worry about it.

Okay. So you're okay if we actually move this one into not as interested. Okay?

It just seems like an extra step in the way.

Yeah. But it's monoculars. It's doesn't hurt to keep it.

Little delays. Does it help to does it help to keep it?

I'll see somebody pay something, and then they have to wait for the next board meeting, you know, get scheduled on to accept it.

Do you want that administrative responsibility of making sure that all of the gifts go through you?

I mean, we could also just kind of put it in the middle. And in the end, all the trustees could kind of vote on each individual middle one as to which which bucket they go into.

We can leave it over here in the middle if you if you're not sure about striking.

Sure. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. The last one is contract with school, county, or other government agencies to render or receive library services or facilities subject to the approval of city council. Do you want that responsibility?

Flat? No.

K.

I mean,

I didn't know.

I think it depends on why it's there. Is it there that we actively go or is it to prevent administration from finding out and dissolving the library?

It could also go the other way. That's actually where it could also go. So I just I think that's I want you to caution when you

Less than I wanna I think you should contract out is that what if we don't have any say in the fact that the city manager was like, nope. Library, we're gonna go contract it out. Yeah. We're gonna fire everybody, join the local county library system, and that's it. And I mean, I think that This actually takes up some

more belongs to the city library and and the city I I mean, that's what I feel like. I mean, that is something

So there is nothing to say that actually you can protest any of those ideas that you just shared. However, would you like the because that's actually an administrative job. Yeah. I remember. Okay.

So the goal is I mean, when we read this, contract with school, county, or other governmental agencies in an official capacity. That's really what it means, to render or receive library services or facilities. Let's say one of you says to me one day, Patty, you know that poor school library system, they do not they're not gonna be able to order all our books, and we want you to get them 42%. So we want you to take on, and I'm saying this out loud because it has come before my desk before, we wanna take on we want you to buy all of their school library books. Do you think I wanna do

that? Absolutely not.

Well, I think and I think the

copy is there's still the language that says subject to the approval of city council. Right? So It is subject to the approval of city council, but do you want a contract? The word there is do you, board, want a contract with other government agencies to refer or receive library services. Either way.

Well, one question. I also, this is a case where we're asking about this 2,000 when this was added. Then this was there's some major things. That was that was the

That's what that's the one I was asking about.

Yeah. So that was the one where we went through the charter versions from 1980, 2000, 2016. There is no change in language other than the capitalization of that. But what I noticed during the the review is that that phrase in the parentheses amended by electors, blah blah blah, till 2000, follows each and every section. So, like, under Parks and Rec Commission, it has that same

So it's got that. Got nothing So

it says the exactly when it was amended, but it referred to everything. So none Tires. Doesn't refer to d.

Okay.

That's There's been no change since 1980.

So so this so this goes back to, like, when they founded the, like, the library.

It was No. It goes back since

'9 Since 1980.

'80. I checked this one through to the 1980, 02/2016. I I didn't go back to the prior version, but there's no

change in any of these

since 1980 except for capitalization.

I I have a question because I think you brought this up last time Mhmm. Time before. Is there a possible yes. It says county school county and other governmental agencies. Is there a possibility of a private organization or a for profit organization contracting? It doesn't say quite that, but I thought there was something you brought.

There is there is a possibility. So let's say you wanted us to come to a third party because it was cheaper to run the organization. I would strongly suggest that we don't do that, but it infers that the body of the board could actually recommend that to happen and could recommend it to council. And believe me, those third parties are out there, and they're very interested in working with cities and county agencies to take over libraries. One of them is called Library Systems and Service, and they run maybe, I would say, less than 20%, but 20% of California libraries are run that way.

These are for profit corporations.